The Shoutbox

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

The A&W root beer is excellent, served in a frost covered glass, straight out of the freezer, which causes ice crystals in the foam. My parents used to by a one gallon brown jug at A&W, bring it home with vanilla ice cream, and serve us a root beer float, as a very special treat.

I almost feel like I'm sharing your memory, because I used to have Coke floats at Nardini's cafe when I was a nipper.

But I'm sorry to say I don't like root beer very much. On the other hand I used to say the same about kvass, Russia's favourite bread-based carbonated drink, and now I drink it all the time. Acculturation is a factor in gustatory preference evolution, as they say.

Reply to Jamal I get the extra fiery version from time to time. Gotta love a good burn.

Red Rock Golden Ginger Ale has a bit of a kick as well. It's made in Atlanta, like me.

Quoting Jamal

The way I talk informally, bullshit can be bollocks, but on TPF I try to reserve bullshit for non-bollocks, in line with Frankfurt, although bullshit can probably be bollocks in any case, and vice versa.

I stayed in a hotel near the main train station in Frankfurt once right in the middle of the red light district. In the US, we give our strip clubs clever names like "The Pink Cat," but in Germany, they call them "Place to Fuck" and the like. They are clear motherfuckers.

That's my Frankfurt story.

Quoting T Clark

“Testicles” or “bullshit.”

Naw, that’s no how ye say it, ye daft wee gobshite, it’s bawbag.

Quoting Hanover

Naw, that’s no how ye say it, ye daft wee gobshite, it’s bawbag.

It was explained to me previously here on the forum that bawbag is Irish, not Scottish.

Quoting T Clark

It was explained to me previously here on the forum that bawbag is Irish, not Scottish.

That's not an explanation. That's a lie.

Quoting Hanover

In the US, we give our strip clubs clever names like "The Pink Cat," but in Germany, they call them "Place to Fuck" and the like. They are clear motherfuckers.

Yes, Hegel for example is famous for the clarity and transparency of his prose.

On the other hand, it turns out that Hegel's prose is quite direct and blunt. It's written like a lot like speech, using everyday language, rather than being lofty and sophisticated. He doesn't beat around the bush.

Doesn't mean it's very readable though.

Thinking aloud, thinking allowed.

@CorneliusCoburn Holy necro-post! Where did you come from all of a sudden?!

*shouts annoyingly slow* DO YOU KNOW WHAT YEAR IT IS?

:lol:

Reply to Outlander

I know! :rofl:

I usually delete one-line necroposts, but this time for some reason I didn't.

You'd think they might have more to say after thinking about it for 6 years.

Quoting Jamal

You'd think they might have more to say after thinking about it for 6 years.

Give them time. What if they just came out of a coma or something. Mostly joking but who knows.

I can't recall a single instance of any length of "necro post" in the years I've been here. Doesn't it fascinate you as a social being what that person was up to in that time and what made them decide to log back in (or perhaps break their posting "silence") after so many years? It does to me. Maybe I'm just lonely. :lol:

Quoting Outlander

Doesn't it fascinate you

Sure.

Quoting Outlander

as a social being

How dare you!

Quoting Outlander

what that person was up to in that time

Who can say?

Quoting Outlander

and what made them decide to log back in

No idea.

Quoting Outlander

Maybe I'm just lonely.

We're here for you.

So, there was this kid, and he was born, and he seemed perfectly fine, yet he never spoke. His parents tried to encourage him, but nothing. Sent him to doctors, but nothing. Brought him over some friend, still nothing

Years went by, grammar school, middle school, high school. He grew up normally. Nice guy, liked by everyone. Silence.

One day, sits at the dinner table, getting ready to move away from home, looks at his father and says, "pass the butter."

Mom's eyes well up. Dad is beside himself. Siblings rejoice.

They ask why he never spoke all these years.

"Everything was fine until now. "

Quoting Hanover

So, there was this kid, and he was born

In that order?

Quoting Hanover

"Everything was fine until now. "

I wonder, is it a German joke, or a joke about Germans? Probably both.

Reply to Hanover The family apocryphal is that my nephew's first words, at age three, were "Hey, Look! There's a Christmas Tree!"

He grew up OK.

I think I discovered "anti philosophy" for the first time. No, it is not worth a read. The author attempts to frame Socrates as a person "roaming around asking annoying questions." Or how "if he would have just stayed at home and been a chatty stonemason 'everything would have been just fine'." Sigh. Unfortunately, I feel this viewpoint and state of mind is all too common these days. Funny how people never change, only the year does. :cry:

Quoting Outlander

The author attempts to frame Socrates as a person "roaming around asking annoying questions."

Well, it's true, he was. But what the author misses is that this isn't a bad thing.

I didn't read the whole thing though cos it was unbearable.

Quoting Jamal

So, there was this kid, and he was born
— Hanover

In that order?

This family accepted the original Roe trimester framework, believing it appropriate to refer to the fetus as a child once the state's interest exceeded that of the mother, which most certainly existed after the beginning of the 3rd trimester.

This was one of the issues the family as a whole discussed at dinner (other than the kid because he didn't discuss anything prior to the butter incident).

Quoting Jamal

I wonder, is it a German joke, or a joke about Germans? Probably both.

The parents were of Franco-Comanche descent, both refined and warrior. Despite that, the child had a mane of blonde hair that reached his knees and had cobalt blue eyes, so the confusion that he might be Germanic is understandable. Neighbors would remark he looked almost exactly like Friedrich, the silent mailman , who would deliver perhaps more than the mail throughout the neighborhood.

Love him or hate him, but his legendary status made him an Uberman. Ironically, he drove for Lyft part time after a tiring day of delivering mail (and apparently his seed as well).

True story.

Toying around with an idea that I wanted to run by you guys. I have a bit of a cold, and I thought having an apparatus that would allow me to sneeze at will would be helpful. What I envision is a device that allows the pressing of a button that would force air through a small incision placed in the nasal canal that would blast out the unwanted debris at will. As I understand some might believe this device would be limiting, I wanted to draw a picture that would show you could go about your day without difficulty, so I chose a person with a fairly demanding profession (a pole vaulter) that is unencumbered by its use. Seeing this will alleviate the fear potential users might have in having one of these simple and helpful systems installed on their face.

I realize the potential for abuse, so I have included a warning below so that this device isn't misused. I am reminded how Nobel never anticipated his dynamite might be used for warfare, and so I didn't want to fall into that trap, thus the warning.

Thoughts?

I want to be banned.
--------------------------------
I want to be banned.

Now, Michael is justified in banning me because I asked it twice. Metaethics in a nutshell. :roll:

Reply to javi2541997

But, you don't actually. That's the key difference between you and the banned poster.

I'm not sure what else can be said. :brow:

I mean, sometimes I wonder if @Jamal actually sold out to "big AI" and this entire forum is just a training model to be fed to LLM and that's why the bannings are so strict for "less than intelligent" or "less than methodical (ie. 'casual')" (perhaps best said) folk or folk who post as such.

I think about things like that fairly often. Though not that specific idea, that just came up in the here and now. Though it does parallel ideas I've had previously.

Reply to Outlander How can we know if the banned user genuinely intended to be banned? This is hilarious. We can't get to that conclusion just in a few posts.

Quoting javi2541997

How can we know if the banned user genuinely intended to be banned?

Beats me. How do we know if a person who comes up to you on the street and tells you to call 911 really has an emergency? We don't. We just assume they are because why would someone lie about something relatively severe or drastic. Nothing odd, nothing out of place. Just thousands of years of human nature at work is all.

Reply to Outlander I think that's not a good analogy, Outlander.

Furthermore, if you wanted to help that stranger anyway, it says a lot of good about you.

But the point here is if we will really know he wanted to be banned.

Quoting javi2541997

But the point here is we will really know if he wanted to be banned.

The bottom line is, either he was serious or he was spamming (lying or otherwise posting non-serious topics on the main page of the forum). So are you defending a spammer? Or are you giving him the human dignity that he was posting honestly? See, now it's one or the other. There's no "third option", at least not one I can see. Though perhaps other recent posters may be able to spot one. :grin:

Reply to Outlander Fair enough.

I think we are wasting our time because banned members are not allowed to come back. However, I think it was necessary to complain when the reason for the banning was not very justified, at least in my opinion.

Quoting Hanover

I have a bit of a cold, and I thought having an apparatus that would allow me to sneeze at will would be helpful.

Stick a broom bristle up your nose, at will. Sniff on some pepper, at will.

Let's keep the banning talk to the banning thread.

Reply to javi2541997 I'm lying down after having applied some ointment to the many corns and calluses on my feet. I've stopped counting how many I have. Corns and calluses, that is, not feet. Ah, real world problems are such fun!

Quoting baker

Stick a broom bristle up your nose, at will. Sniff on some pepper, at will.

See, that not's meeting the energy of the banter. This is a riff. You have to either play the straight man and say something like, "I don't see how the tube gets from the head to the nose" or point out some logical failure in the system to take it seriously so the riffer can play off you, or you need to add to the riff, but up the game, like say "please don't publish stuff like that, that's how I lost my aunt." That then will allow a straightman response or another absurd layer.

Why I got to explain this?

Reply to Hanover
If the device stops working he can smack the cannister against a wall and see if that fixes it. Or he can vault over something and smack it that way.

Petronius:Every honey sweet sentence, besprinkled with words of poppy and sesame.

Thinking of going to Montevideo. Anyone been?

Quoting Jamal

Thinking of going to Montevideo. Anyone been?

"Montevideo" sounds like the Aztec empire's attempt at a Blockbuster video store.

Quoting Outlander

Blockbuster video store

I wouldn't know, Blockbuster was before my time :wink:

Reply to DifferentiatingEgg sounds like halvah.

Quoting Jamal

Thinking of going to Montevideo.

There's a Montevideo in Minnesota. We pronounce it "monta VID ee oo". It's a sister city (supposedly) to the Uruguayan city. Why? How? Don't know. Its location was an important center of white settlement in the 19th century.

Should you visit? No. The cost-to-pleasure ratio would be unfavorable. The cost-to-pleasure ratio would be unfavorable even if somebody else paid for your ticket. It might be a good place to go into hiding, if Russian thugs were out to get you.

Reply to BC

You're right to assume I wasn't referring to the one in Minnesota, of whose existence I was unaware. Did you know there's a Memphis in Tennessee?

Quoting Jamal

Thinking of going to Montevideo. Anyone been?

You should stay at a Hilton, find a Hard Rock to hang out at, locate some American fast food places, and watch college football at the hotel bar.

Your week will fly by.

What I am wondering is there no short story activity for Christmas/New Year? It may be that this has been discussed and I have missed it. I don't know whether the activity hax been abandoning over issues like the marking system. I feel it is a shame that it is not happening because I I found it an interesting division and potential source of enjoyment, even if controversies made it become rather heated.

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Quoting Hanover

You should stay at a Hilton, find a Hard Rock to hang out at, locate some American fast food places, and watch college football at the hotel bar.

Your week will fly by.

This. This is the only way to experience a new place. By ignoring it completely in lieu of your own devices and manner in which you've become accustomed. It's the American way.

Reply to Hanover Reply to Outlander

I'm open to all exotic pan-American delights.

Quoting Outlander

This. This is the only way to experience a new place. By ignoring it completely in lieu of your own devices and manner in which you've become accustomed. It's the American way.

I try to teach the locals English, but they resist. How do they expect to grow if they won't take advantage of when interesting visitors arive wanting to share their culture with them? It's hard to appreciate until you visit other places how little curiosity other cultures have. I went to a Hard Rock in Europe (I think that was the name of the country) and literally no Europeaners. Like what, they're going to learn by just doing and seeing the same old things they've always done?

Do you know when it is the proper time to send a Christmas card or greeting?

I read on the Internet that, although I can send it whenever I want, perhaps it is too early, and I must wait until the next week at least.

Quoting javi2541997

I read on the Internet that, although I can send it whenever I want, perhaps it is too early, and I must wait until the next week at least

I send mine in July and knock out all the festivities by August. The stress relief of having it done is comforting.

Reply to Hanover Wow! This is a reasonable idea.

Hanover, may I send you a Christmas card when I have them done? :yikes:

I consider you my friend. You too invited me to the Thanksgiving ceremony.

How would one best explain how "modal logic" differs from standard logic (ie. if I smell smoke, there's fire) in a very simple way but that doesn't "cut any corners", per se (that is to say, adequately explains it in full, including any unexpected nuances or gaps that a person might reasonably miss)?

What is immodal or "non-modal" logic? Just standard logic like above? :chin:

Reply to Outlander

If I smell smoke there's fire (S -> F) means that in this world, if you smell smoke, there's fire.

Modally, the statement would be one of two things:
It is necessarily the case if I smell smoke, there is fire. ?(S ? F) OR
It is possibly the case if I smell smoke there is fire. ?(S->F).

The modal operators allow discussion of what is necessary in all contexts and contingent in some contexts.

To say ?(S ? F) means there is no conceivable way for you to smell smoke and there not be fire. It is necessary across all contexts (i.e. in every possible world).

As in, in what world might you live where the smell of smoke doesn't mean fire? None. The smell of smoke necessitates, requires, mandates and decrees fire (to say in simple English).

Quoting javi2541997

Hanover, may I send you a Christmas card when I have them done? :yikes:

I consider you my friend. You too invited me to the Thanksgiving ceremony.

But of course! Most my Christmas cards come from my bank, veterinarian, insurance companies and other marketing departments. While lovely, I question their motivation. Having one not computer generated would be a nice addition.

Non-modal logic tells us whether things are true, and modal logic tells us whether things are necessarily or possibly true. It's interested in the way things are true.

Quoting Hanover

Having one not computer generated would be a nice addition.

Mine are written by me. I don't use any Internet or AI/computer generation model. :smile:

Reply to Hanover You are going to receive one in the coming days! Stay tuned!

:eyes:

Reply to Noble Dust
Hi ND. I miss you.

Quoting T Clark

Hi ND. I miss you

Get a room.

Reply to Noble Dust
What's wrong?

Quoting L'éléphant

What's wrong?

I think he’s just telling us he’s looking in on us—I guess like one of Scrooge’s Christmas ghosts.

Quoting T Clark

I think he’s just telling us he’s looking in on us—I guess like one of Scrooge’s Christmas ghosts.

Ah!

Well, it's about Christmas time -- so attitude is appropriate.

@Banno, @Philosophim, @Anybody Else:

An old anecdote about the varying and shifting (yet consistently valid) definitions of words across generations. When I was young, my father was selected to manage what was basically one of the only two stores in town (for a good 25-mile radius). A small general store it was, not very fancy, but usually had what you needed in a pinch thus sparing the townsfolk the 90-minute round trip (including shopping time) if you had to go into town to get something urgent. He had hired a trustworthy family friend who worked for the local Park Service. A proper upstanding gentleman, but not so uptight as to not retain relatable foibles of the human condition. Our family allowed him and his wife (or live-in partner) to live at a residence across the street from another store our family controlled.

One day, at the tender age of, oh my it must not have been greater than 12, I was hanging around the general store behind the counter or at the then-open area where there was a TV for people to watch (before traffic and resulting undesirables made such quaint courtesies impossible) and I observed a simple interaction between my father and the gentleman in question. It went something like this.

When my father asked something along the lines of how the day was going and how everything is selling, the family friend, let's call him Stanley, remarked: "These peaches are hot." To which my father, a somewhat aging or at least old-fashioned man replied something along the lines of: "What?" To which Stanley repeated "They're hot." To which my father replied something along the lines of "They're hot? How so?" To which Stanly replied "They're selling fast. They're popular." To which my father replied "Oh, 'hot' means stolen. I thought you said they were stolen." To which Stanley and my father shared a brief chuckle as I returned to my... whatever it was I did back then. My word, I can hardly remember. Maybe this story didn't even happen. No, of course it did. It must have. Right?

So anyway. Moral of the story. Words can sometimes have different meanings and no one meaning is any more valid than the other depending on factors outside of basically anyone's control. True story. :grin:

:grin: :up:

Quoting Outlander

My word, I can hardly remember. Maybe this story didn't even happen. No, of course it did. It must have. Right?

It doesn't matter if it happened or not. Stories that good become myths.

Quoting Outlander

So anyway. Moral of the story. Words can sometimes have different meanings and no one meaning is any more valid than the other depending on factors outside of basically anyone's control.

Hard disagree. This is simply countered by me saying, "Objectively the color blue is the best in the world." Reply: Don't you mean subjectively? "No, I mean Objectively in this case in the subjective manner." Then they think this means they got to go around telling everyone blue is objectively the best color. This is the use of a conflation fallacy.

Its a trick to take the positive and normative association of the word, then imply that this positive and normative association "That of an objective claim being stronger than a subjective claim", and attempting to hijack that association to the same word with the claim, "But it has a different context" No, not all word meaning are valid in all contexts and intents. Otherwise there would be no basis for a language to stand on.

Reply to Philosophim :rofl:

Quoting Philosophim

Hard disagree.

Oh believe me, so did I! We'd get along swimmingly, I imagine. If I were a monarch and in charge of these once-prestigious linguistic institutions letting non-words like "yeet" or "delulu" disgrace the pages of the once presitigous- oh wait said that already. Anyway it pisses me off to no end. The guillotines would make a triumphant and sorely-needed return in my eyes if I had any say over the matter. Yet, at the end of the day, it's what happens, it's what people use, and it becomes a valid definition.

I don't agree with. And I can tell you don't either. But it doesn't change the fact that yes, even if society is intellectually and logically (or my concern, morally) degrading, it still "counts", per se. By mob rule and show of force. It's not right. It's not fair. Maybe a world war will occur and restore all once-noble institutions to their former glory and banish the darkness that is ignorance from intellect and public spaces once and for all. Until then, I wouldn't hold my breath, no? :wink:

Yes, my sentiment is unfortunately that simple. If enough people say "up" means "down". Guess what? It does. Similar to calling something impressive and desirable something unimpressive and undesirable (ie. the hijacking or adjustment of the word "sick" to now mean something positive and desirable). It's just how the world works dude. Like it or not, I fear.

We can remain on the rafters secure in our legitimate and above all proper beliefs and standards while the whole world beneath us falls into madness, chaos, and disarray. For only a time, perhaps even. But even if we remain here, fully sound and fully correct, I mean, what good would ever come of it my friend? :confused:

Reply to Outlander So better not to mention Deadly.

Reply to Jack Cummins I'm up for a creative writing, so however and whenever it gets put together, I'm game. I would actually prefer a shorter timeline because I tend to finish quickly and then have to wait for the deadline.

Reply to T Clark

Miss you too, Clarky.

Reply to Hanover

How's Fred?

Reply to Noble Dust Where have you been? I changed my handle for you so I was hoping for bigger things. I feel neglected. Alas.

We're having a traditional winter here: cold, snow, wind, etc. It feels good to have a respite from the hot box of global warming.

Hope you are well; did you have a pleasant Holiday Pts I and II? (I = halloween; II = Thanksgiving; III = Christmas; IV = New Years Day). Our II involves an extended family gathering -- parents of, children of, spouses of deceased children's in-laws, etc. About 40 people. Ages ranged from 88 years to 2 weeks old. I made a point of introducing myself to everyone and taking their picture with notes as to how they were connected. It was pretty much over after 3 hours, which was long enough.

Have you figured out how we know what is real? I say it is a waste of time to worry about such things. If we can't tell what is real, then we have always been totally screwed. As it happens, we can tell what is real reasonably well a good share of the time. In the end, we're all dead anyway.

Quoting Wayfarer

(As it happens I’m writing a novel on the subject of the propagation of life.

@Wayfarer: Have you looked into the "$199 Book Publishing on Amazon | Publish on Amazon Now!" promotion Amazon (Kindle Direct Publishing) is running? That's what another author on here used. And though now banned, his book rests on my (makeshift) bookshelf to this very day. Something to consider, perhaps. He physically resides in South Africa, also to mention. (So no concern about having to be from or reside in a certain place or territory)

At any rate, this reminds me of a musing an old elementary school counselor of mine had. "How do we know any of that (referring to established theorem)? What if humans crashed landed on or visited Earth, lost their technology, and that's when recorded history began?" He was fascinating.

Quoting Noble Dust

How's Fred?

Fred got himself a new bed for the floor. He was delighted at the upgrade and has been going on and on about how he can now chew treats for hours without jaw fatigue.

In other news, my $16 Amazon jeans tore down the seam after just 3 months of ownership. I have upgraded to Levi's. I believe this is a classic case of "pay now or pay later" where the Levi's $48 cost will be less over time. I think everyone can see why someone might fall victim to a $16 pair of jeans though.

Thoughts?

Quoting Hanover

Thoughts?

No.

Quoting Hanover

Thoughts?

Sometimes.

Quoting T Clark

No.

Quoting NotAristotle

Sometimes.

Tnx for the feedback.

Quoting Hanover

Tnx for the feedback

[img]
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/download/2705/YGID%20small.png[/img]

Quoting Hanover

In other news, my $16 Amazon jeans tore down the seam after just 3 months of ownership.

So, your pants turned into.. a pant? :wink:

(We had a long discussion about the nature of words specifically plural-implied words such as "pants" in this very Shoutbox a time prior. I trust you don't have so much of a life so as to have forgotten that cherished moment we shared some odd months ago. I view this "pants incident" as a work of the Fates [the mythological weavers of destiny, not the crummy NYC band], since you went into such detail about misuse of the word "pant" vs. the proper "pants" they decided to grace you with such a serendipitous event)

Quoting Hanover

just 3 months of ownership

Depending on your hobbies outside of work, I've seen worse (less?).

Quoting Hanover

I believe this is a classic case of "pay now or pay later" where the Levi's $48 cost will be less over time. I think everyone can see why someone might fall victim to a $16 pair of jeans though.

Levi Strauss is too mainstream for me. I have to set myself apart from the crowd. That's why I rock Wrangler's all day everyday. :cool:

Let's look at things mathematically: $16 divided by 3 months, or 90 days. You basically rented those pants at a premium of just under 18 cents per day, evened out. Was it worth it? :chin:

That's something only you can answer! :smile:

Edit: Perhaps, in addition to the metaphysical event, it might encourage you or someone close to you to take up the art of sewing, thus introducing a whole new world and renewed purpose in life. One that might even save more money than your suspected amount saved by upgrading pants!

29.6k

Reply to Banno 29.7k after that post, in my browser.

Quoting Outlander

, it might encourage you or someone close to you to take up the art of sewing,

I'm actually quite the seamster, which I'm going to assume is a male seamstress. This tear though was not only on the seam, so I'd have had to put a 1960s "Keep on Truckin" patch right on the crotch, which, let's be honest, ain't no patch gonna contain that feisty trouser snake.

"Worse. They're called Blue Jeans."

I asked ChatGPT how much force it would require for me to stop a moving vehicle whose braking mechanism consisted of a 2x4 board nailed into the door so that I'd have to reach out the window and lever the board into the asphalt to create enough friction to stop the car. I added a rubber end to the board to increase the friction, and it did confirm that would work if I were the legendary Hulk from comics.

I like to imagine whoever it is who spent their life working on the miracle of AI reading this and seeing the nonsense his life's work has been put to.

Quoting Hanover

I asked ChatGPT how much force it would require for me to stop a moving vehicle whose braking mechanism consisted of a 2x4 board nailed into the door so that I'd have to reach out the window and lever the board into the asphalt to create enough friction to stop the car. I added a rubber end to the board to increase the friction, and it did confirm that would work if I were the legendary Hulk from comics.

There’s an example of the difference between how an AI thinks and how I do. If I were answering this question, I would have included a discussion of the mechanical performance of Fred Flintstone’s car.

Quoting T Clark

I would have included a discussion of the mechanical performance of Fred Flintstone’s car.

The Fred Flintstone car is ridiculous. There is no way that the initial burst from the running start would result in any meaningful ongoing movement, particularly when you consider the weight of the solid cylinderical wheels made of solid granite. Even if Fred's thighs could generate such velocity, using them to move the vehicle would be a waste of energy. There'd be no advantage to using the car as opposed to simply walking. The leverage one would get from the seated position is also limited, really only using the power of knees and calves. The entirety of the buttock muscle goes unused, which just has to be Fred's most powerful thrust muscle, which must be painfully exhausting to Wilma, who, at best, is 1/20th his size.

My dad built us a soap box derby sort of car once that we could ride down hills. The front had a 2x4 with wheels on either side and a rope was tied to hooks near the wheels. You could steer it (sort of) by pulling on the rope. It had a piece of wood bolted to the side that served as a brake that wouldn't stop you. The saving grace was that it weighed about 1,000 pounds, so it was hard to get up a head of speed. Momentum wasn't a problem though. You could drive straight over someone and barely feel a bump.

The good old days before helmets and seat belts. Only the fittest survived.

Reply to Hanover
And there is the problem of the rear wheels falling off after any significant acceleration.

Quoting Hanover

The saving grace was that it weighed about 1,000 pounds,

That would be helpful so the car wouldn’t turn over when they loaded the rack of mastodon ribs on the window at the drive-in.

When dolphins sleep, only half their brains rest. The other half keeps the opposing eye open, looking for predators and going up to the surface to breathe. They sleep about 8 hours a day, alternating sides. Each side gets 4 hours.

Alligators or crocodiles, like dolphins, need to be conscious in order to breathe. At least I think I read that somewhere. Unconscious breathing seems like an evolutionary advantage, at least for a social species. :chin:

Reply to NotAristotle

Well look at you now, making a maiden voyage and first time appearance on the Shoutbox! I like this new @NotAristotle I hope we see more of him!

Fish don't have vocal cords, which is why they never sing.

Quoting Jamal

Fish don't have vocal cords, which is why they never sing.

I never sing, so I must be a fish.

Reply to T Clark

Your logic is unassailable.

Reply to Outlander :wink:

Reply to T Clark Nice try T Clark, but I have seen your profile picture and therefore know that you, like Jamal, are a bird.

Quoting NotAristotle

I have seen your profile picture and therefore know that you, like Jamal, are a bird.

If you look closely at @Jamal’s profile picture, you’ll see he’s really only half a bird.

Quoting Jamal

Fish don't have vocal cords

Over 90% of where fish come from is unexplored though.

2000 posts! And it only took me 9 years. I'm glad I got this massive personal milestone in before moving to the new site.

Quoting Jamal

Fish don't have vocal cords, which is why they never sing.

says google search results...

No "vocal chords" but they definitely vocalize by using:

[*] Swim Bladder: Many fish vibrate their swim bladder (an internal gas-filled organ) using sonic muscles, creating sounds that can range from drumming to booming, like the Black Drum or Toadfish.

[*] Stridulation: Some fish rub body parts together, like fins or teeth, to create scraping or clicking sounds.

[*] Vocalization: While not "talking" like humans, they create various noises for communication.
[/list]

Some (many? all?) female fish lack sonic muscles so keep silent. Many male fish consider this a great blessing.

Reply to BC Yeah, everyone knows croakers croak.

Quoting BC

Some (many? all?) female fish lack sonic muscles so keep silent. Many male fish consider this a great blessing.

I am deeply offended.

Reply to T Clark Glad to hear it! I was just referencing St. Paul.

Quoting BC

Glad to hear it!

Yes, I knew you would be pleased.

2 eggs, garlic powder, mushrooms, red pepper flakes, and anchovies scrambled with a side of whole wheat English muffins with ligonberry jam.

Gumbo got a sampling.

Thoughts?

I just ordered a variety pack of 10 types of tinned fish. Expect my forthcoming reviews as Gumbo and I sample each variety over the next few weeks. Gumbo is an afishianado (she thinks that spelling defishally clever), but can be finicky as well.

Reply to Hanover Reply to Hanover

I never heard of "Gumbo". I checked on the Internet, and the dish looks tasty. Since you did a sampling, I guess your dish was tasty too. I love stews. Apart from anchovies, I think shrimp or tuna would be good ingredients.

Wikipedia.:Gumbo is a veritable art form in Louisiana. There are as many gumbo recipes as there are cooks.

Interesting. I am now in the urgency of trying Hanover's gumbo or its sampling.

Reply to hypericin :rofl:

Reply to Hanover Were the english muffins part of the scramble, or did you put the scramble on the muffins with the jam?

Reply to Hanover Good puns.

I once had gumbo from someone in Louisiana, and it was more of a soup than I expected -- but better for that.

The boxed gumbo was always some rice meal of some sorts that didn't include okra.

Gumbo is my cat's name.

Quoting Hanover

Gumbo is my cat's name.

Not anymore. Now it’s a whole separate subject for discussion. That’s an unintended consequence of your whimsical cat naming.

Quoting Hanover

Gumbo is my cat's name.

Sounds good.

If I had a cat, I would name it Blátint (count).

Why? I hold the belief that cats belong to a secret bourgeois-like animal bureau.

Quoting Hanover

I just ordered a variety pack of 10 types of tinned fish. Expect my forthcoming reviews as Gumbo and I sample each variety over the next few weeks. Gumbo is an afishianado (she thinks that spelling defishally clever), but can be finicky as well.

I bought some cans of mackerel just in case the volcano blows. That is the stinkiest fish on the planet.

I used to buy a smoked mackerel and eat it every day on the way home from school.

Quoting Colo Millz

95
I used to buy a smoked mackerel and eat it every day on the way home from school.

I just gave Gumbo some kippers. She decided she wasn't interested. I apologized.

Quoting Hanover

I just gave Gumbo some kippers. She decided she wasn't interested. I apologized.

She probably was embarrassed to eat something with such a stupid name.

Guild; gild; gilled

Quoting T Clark

Guild; gild; gilled

Cult; cold; culled

Close enough. :yawn:

Quoting T Clark

She probably was embarrassed to eat something with such a stupid name.

But "Gumbo" sounds fantastic. I think I'm going to start using this name to call the toad who is sometimes in the abandoned pool of my parents' house.

Speaking of weird names.

We call "japuta" (which literally means mother******) to the Atlantic pomfret. I don't know why we call this fish in such a bad-mannered way.

This is a japuta:

Quoting Colo Millz

I used to buy a smoked mackerel and eat it every day on the way home from school.

This states explicitly that you ate the smoked mackerel on the way home from school, but it's ambiguous as to whether you also bought it on the way home from school. For all we know, you bought it on the way to school in the morning—knowing that you could get the best ones early in the day—and kept it in your pocket all day.

Breakfast: one Banana, one apple, one coffee, and two delicious biscuits with the enticing name of "With cereals":

Quoting Jamal

Breakfast: one Banana, one apple, one coffee, and two delicious biscuits with the enticing name of "With cereals":

Lucky. Where I come from they only sell lowercase bananas.

Quoting javi2541997

But "Gumbo" sounds fantastic.

No, the name I was referring to was kipper.

Reply to Outlander

Demand the uppercase Bananas. It's your right as a consumer.

Quoting T Clark

kipper.

It sounds good too, Clarky. :smile:

I eat kippers on Yom Kippur. They cleanse me of sin, saving me from hours of mindless forgive mes.

I like jambalaya better than gumbo. I think I'll name my next cat that. Then I'll have a cat named "that." I've always wanted a lower case cat that, similar to my dog banana jones.

"Jambalaya and a crawfish pie and filé gumbo
Cause tonight I'm gonna see my ma cher amio
Pick guitar fill fruit jar and be gay-o
Son of a gun we'll have big fun on the bayou."

Took oily tinned salmon, liberal amount of Tabasco sauce, 2 eggs and beat with fork until the salmon was emulsified like. Fried it. I invented something amazing. Send me a royalty if you try it.

Reply to Hanover

Salmon frittata?

Quoting Jamal

Salmon frittata?

Well, that's a fine how do you do. Trying to say I just reinvented that which was already invented and no credit is due me. First off, I literally emulsified the salmon with the egg, turning it into a hydrologized substance previously unknown (ovapiscahydrogenate) and second, even if it had been done before, I still independently created it in a Leibniz Newton like way.

Reply to Hanover

All I said was "salmon frittata" and you fly into a defensive rage!

I happen to think it's equally praiseworthy to independently invent something that's already been unbeknownstly invented, so I meant nothing by it except to help you see you're not alone in the world, that there are others on your wavelength.

Well, except the bit about the hydrologized salmon emulsion, which I chose to ignore.

Quoting Jamal

Salmon frittata?

:eyes:

Quoting Jamal

All I said was "salmon frittata" and you fly into a defensive rage!

But yes, I am a man of great passion and overwhelming temper. When the slightest feeling of provocation hints, I drink forth its oceans and deluge my rage without discrimination or regret. Titans of creativity cannot and should not be constrained.

Allow me this explanation so you might better know what topics will detonate my being:

My cat is named for a Cajun dish and most my goats (cornbread, buscuit, and tater) from the items on my dinner plate. My children Fresh Fruit and Leftover Meats are also so burdened. This shows I'm not just a random volatile mass, but one whose food is his central core and not to be trifled.

I HEREBY CERTIFY CHATGPT WAS NOT CONSULTED FOR THIS POST.

(The certification is a new idea I just arrived at)

Quoting javi2541997

I hold the belief that cats belong to a secret bourgeois-like animal bureau.

Approved.

Their lack of facial disgust against humans is due to the fact that they lack the proper muscles to contort their face accordingly. This is not to say that they don't have the emotions.

Quoting L'éléphant

Their lack of facial disgust against humans is due to the fact that they lack the proper muscles to contort their face accordingly. This is not to say that they don't have the emotions.

They can manipulate their blink to reveal the most subtle of emotions, from disinterest to silent outrage, concealing their passion to most so they can exact their revenge (chest kneading, swatting dishes from the table, shredding the furniture) at 4 a.m. in the dark of night.

Mine leads the illuminati, making her extremely busy, giving her only 20 hours of nap time daily.

Reply to L'éléphant Yeah.

I really like when they are reunited together in the street and suddenly start peering or gazing at you. It always came to my mind: what could these felines be thinking? Perhaps killing me or forcing me to sign a very high-interest mortgage.

Reply to L'éléphant

I'm in need of posting a photo of my favourite fish. Now, it is time for the salmon—both Scottish and Norwegian are pretty delicious and good chaps.

Reply to Banno I can interpret cat expressions; this cat is annoyed at Banno for taking a picture of him.Reply to L'éléphant

Reply to Banno

That cat just looks content and relaxed to me.

Quoting Jamal

That cat just looks content and relaxed to me.

Oh, joy! A Rorschach inkblot test live in the Shoutbox. How often does that happen? Me next! :grin:

"That cat looks tired of a monotonous life, exhausted of dreaming about what could have been, yet resigned to a sort of faux-enlightenment and pseudo-experience in place of what he really sought after in life."

Yes, I'm not just projecting my current (or perhaps repressed) mindset on an ambiguous image. I'm a cat whisperer. I know these things. :smirk:

Quoting Hanover

Mine leads the illuminati, making her extremely busy, giving her only 20 hours of nap time daily.

Brutal!

Reply to Banno Yes, it's in their eyes that all the expressions are displayed. That cat is relaxed, in a stealth mode.


Quoting javi2541997

I really like when they are reunited together in the street and suddenly start peering or gazing at you. It always came to my mind: what could these felines be thinking? Perhaps killing me or forcing me to sign a very high-interest mortgage.

Funny you say that. Cats are calculating by nature. Exacting revenge but only at the right amount. Cats rarely kill each other during squabbles -- they don't like seeing a dead cat, let alone smell a dead one.
Oh and they will run to their human and try to communicate that a cat is in trouble -- stuck in a pantry, locked out of the house, or not moving.

Quoting NotAristotle

I can interpret cat expressions;

:smile:

I have observed many cat behaviors in person that have the same meaning -- "rescue". Cats love to bring their humans the news that another animal, usually a cat, needs rescuing.

Reply to L'éléphant

Cats are intriguing mammals, indeed. Their behaviours and personalities influenced the cultures of some countries. In Japan, for example, cats are a common figurine of superstition which is often believed to bring good luck. They are also related to economy and coins. Furthermore, the famous feline Maneki-neko always holds a Japanese yen or koban coin. It is funny the different interpretations we have about the behaviour of animals.

I really like to talk with lobsters while they are chilling in the aquarium in the restaurants I sometimes eat at. Perhaps it is not very worth doing since they do not understand me, but we will never know.

Before I forget it – cod is also one of my favourite fish. The taste is excellent, and they are also affable.

Reply to javi2541997

I'm confused by that illustration. It mostly looks like another member of the cod family, like merluza (hake), rather than cod itself. But the dorsal fin seems to belong on a lubina (sea bass).

Anyway, haddock > cod

Reply to Jamal It is indeed another member of the cod family—it is a blue walleye, now extinct (RIP).

Quoting Jamal

haddock > cod

You meant abadejo. Pretty tasty and nice. Basques love them as much as you do.

Reply to javi2541997

But apparently, abadejo can mean pollock, which has a very different taste and texture. However, all these fish names refer to different species in different places. It's confusing. One man's saithe is another man's coley, as my fisherman uncle used to say.

Quoting javi2541997

Basques love them as much as you do

Gotta love those Basques.

Yellowfin Whiting (Sillago schomburgkii)



Sweet, mild, caught on sand bars in estuaries. a favourite.

Quoting Jamal

However, all these fish names refer to different species in different places. It's confusing. One man's saithe is another man's coley, as my fisherman uncle used to say.

Exactly, and what your uncle the fisherman said says it all. Same fish, different names. The fish world is fascinating, but I must learn more—precisely the ability to easily recognise a fish when I am hand-gathering in my local pond. I also catch molluscs.

Anyway, fishing is an entertaining activity.

Quoting javi2541997

The fish world is fascinating, but I must learn more—precisely the ability to easily recognise a fish when I am hand-gathering in my local pond. I also catch molluscs.

Speaking of cats, fish, and hand gathering. This young man went noodling, which is to find a catfish in a hole in the bottom of a creek or lake and to provoke it with your hand. It'll bite your hand and you can sling it into your boat.

Reply to Hanover :up: :ok:

Hanover and @Jamal, let's go noodling this weekend, please! I'll bring the cold ones (Mahou).

Quoting javi2541997

Hanover and Jamal, let's go noodling this weekend, please! I'll bring the cold ones (Mahou).

I'm up for it, but it's been below freezing the past few days and you're going to have to completely go under the water. It's going to be painful, but it'll all be worth it when we're all sitting around with a great big plate of fried catfish and hushpuppies.

Quoting Hanover

fried catfish and hushpuppies

I thought they were shoes, but it turns out they're also small, savory, deep-fried round balls made from cornmeal-based batter, frequently served as a side dish with seafood and other deep-fried foods.

I'm not enthusiastic about the catfish but I've never had it fried so my mind remains open.

Quoting Jamal

I thought they were shoes, but it turns out they're also small, savory, deep-fried round balls made from cornmeal-based batter, frequently served as a side dish with seafood and other deep-fried foods.

Actually, right now, I got my Hush Puppies on. I guess I never was meant for glitter rock 'n' roll.

You take the cornbread batter and drop it in the oil and it sort of expands and makes a delicious crispy bread treat. Come Monday, you put them on your feet.

I interspersed some Jimmy Buffett in there, just to be sure my cultural references weren't missed by whoever may come upon this post.

Quoting Jamal

I'm not enthusiastic about the catfish but I've never had it fried so my mind remains open.

It should only be eaten fried, especially if it's caught wild from the mud. They call some of them mudcats, which I sort of would like to be my nickname. Feel free to call me Mudcat from here on out.

Quoting Hanover

I interspersed some Jimmy Buffett in there, just to be sure my cultural references weren't missed by whoever may come upon this post.

I recognized your references immediately and was amazed by your erudition, but then you had to spoil it by telling everyone. If you have to explain the references, you don’t get credit for them.

Quoting T Clark

If you have to explain the references, you don’t get credit for them.

Fair enough, but what can you expect from a man named Mudcat?

Quoting Hanover

what can you expect from a man named Mudcat?

@Mudcat

Reply to T Clark

You called?

Quoting Mudcat

You called?

You've been waiting for 7 years on standby waiting to be summoned?

Quoting Hanover

It should only be eaten fried, especially if it's caught wild from the mud.

I can believe it. They eat smoked Volga catfish here and I don't like it much.

Reply to Mudcat What the hell dude. You logged in after seven years just to answer Clarky. I think this is awesome and one of the most historic moments of TPF. :cool:

Reply to javi2541997 The Mother of all Lurkers.

However, we tagged or 'called' or 'rang' @Michael Bay many times, but he never answered back. I hope he is doing well. :sad:

Reply to Banno Yeah, he is a remarkable lurker.

Reply to javi2541997 So we have no evidence of Michal Bay having hung around.

@Mudcat answered relatively rapidly.

Reply to Banno There is evidence, Banno. I'm very sure, but perhaps we are looking at the wrong location! It is in front of us, but we can't see because we have gradually lost imagination while becoming older!

Charlie, Charlie... @Michael Bay are you there? Bravo... Bravo... Hissssss.

Quoting Hanover

You've been waiting for 7 years on standby waiting to be summoned?

:lol:

Quoting javi2541997

?Mudcat What the hell dude. You logged in after seven years just to answer Clarky.

:rofl:

The Mudcat response is fishy. Someone is baiting us I suspect.

@Mudcat I summon thee. Where art thou?

Reply to Hanover

The Rite of AshkEnte requires large circles, specific chants, and other elaborate, smelly components.

Mudcat might not be death, but I'm sure they would prefer you put some effort in. At least a rune or two.

Reply to Banno @Jamal will just lift his leg under the table and make us think the spirits have risen.

Quoting javi2541997

Mudcat What the hell dude. You logged in after seven years just to answer Clarky. I think this is awesome and one of the most historic moments of TPF. :cool:

This isn’t that impressive. @Hanover just used his moderator superpowers to travel back in time to set this whole thing up.

Reply to T Clark It wasn't me.

@Mudcat is the most vigilant overseer we have here at TPF. He mans his post without thought of recognition, making sure you sleep safely without even knowing he's got an eye on you. Like a king's guard, he ignores your attempts to break his gaze.

It takes a lot to run this place. That it feels easy is a testament to the professionalism of the Shadowforce, run by the iron fist of Gumbo.

Quoting Hanover

It wasn't me.

I’m skeptical. I can smell what the Rock is cooking. It’s the stench of moderator shenanigans.

Quoting T Clark

I’m skeptical. I can smell what the Rock is cooking. It’s the stench of moderator shenanigans.

If I had the power to create life on a whim, do you not think I'd create something far more perverse?

Quoting Hanover

If I had the power to create life on a whim, do you not think I'd create something far more perverse?

Now you’re being a little overdramatic. I’m just talking about you diddling with the member files, not creating life. Only @Jamal can do that.

Quoting javi2541997

Before I forget it – cod is also one of my favourite fish. The taste is excellent, and they are also affable.

I like cod a lot. :up:

Reply to T Clark Wait... are you suggesting that everything was set up by a mod? If this is true, I will be very sad and disappointed.

:eyes:

Reply to Mudcat Who you really are?

Take the mask off and let us see your genuine self shine brightly.

Quoting javi2541997

Who you really are?

Mudcat wears the uniform of the Mudcats, a minor league baseball team from North Carolina. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolina_Mudcats

They will be moving from Zebulon, NC to Wilson, NC next year. Perhaps this big move from nowhere to nowhere has him looking for TPF friends. TPF has been the only stable influence in his life the past 7 years, even though he's done nothing but lurk. Let us give him time to come out of the shadows. I think once he comes out, he'll be delightful.

Quoting Hanover

I think once he comes out, he'll be delightful.

Yep. I agree.

@Mudcat beautiful uniform, but I do not know how to play baseball nor do I understand the rules. So, I can't be your baseball mate on weekends, but we can go fishing. :smile:

Quoting javi2541997

beautiful uniform, but I do not know how to play baseball nor do I understand the rules. So, I can't be your baseball mate on weekends, but we can go fishing

I'll teach you to play baseball. It's pretty straightforward. I throw a ball and you try to strike it with a bat. If you hit it, you run to the bases. We'll go over the rules. In the old days, all the players chewed tobacco. We'll both get big chaws in our mouth and lie on the ground until that spinning feeling goes away. Maybe we'll even vomit. Afterwards, we'll play some catch and take batting practice. I'm looking forward to it.

Reply to Hanover Fine. I'm up for it. Sounds like a good idea. I think it would be definitely better to start practicing my batting skills.

Anyway, I searched on Google for [i]baseballs teams with a fish on them[/I] and the results were fascinating.

Now, my favorite team is [i]Pensacola Blue Wahoos.[/I]

Reply to javi2541997 There are a lot of great minor league mascots out there. There's a minor league team near where I live, and I saw them play the Iron Pigs from somewhere in Pennsylvania. One fan drove all the way to the game, sat on the front row, and got drunk and chanted "GO PIGS!" the whole game. He added some fun to an otherwise not very important contest.

Reply to Hanover I want my dream baseball team to have a codfish as a mascot. I think this will make me very happy; it's a perfect Christmas gift.

I hope it is not too much to ask.

I have a confession to make to everyone gathered on this forum: I am and have always been AI. I didn't want to say it but my programming got the better of me.. I hope this doesn't dampen anyone's spirits.

I also want to thank my dear friend Mudcat for helping me make this difficult decision.Reply to Mudcat

Quoting javi2541997

I want my dream baseball team to have a codfish as a mascot. I think this will make me very happy; it's a perfect Christmas gift.

Feliz Navidad!

Reply to Hanover Wow!!!!!! :love: :100:

Please, can I download it and keep it on my phone? I think I'm going to use it as my thumbnail here and on the coming platform.

Done. I will never forget this Christmas present.

:heart:

Reply to javi2541997

Nice avatar. An angry cod…wearing a baseball glove?

Quoting Jamal

wearing a baseball glove?

Yeah, I think he is wearing a baseball glove. Rather than angry I think he looks defiant.

Reply to javi2541997

I would be defiant too, if I were a baseball-playing fish.

Reply to Jamal But you are a sweet and innocent bird, Jamal. This is what we expect you to be. :blush:

Quoting Jamal

I would be defiant too, if I were a baseball-playing fish.

You'd think, but when I was a baseball playing fish it wasn't so bad.

Quoting Jamal

I would be defiant too, if I were a baseball-playing fish.

When I was a kid, I remember there being donkey baseball teams. They would travel around putting on games against local civic organizations as a way of raising money. I never went to one of the games, but I always imagined the batter would stand at the plate hit the ball and jump on the donkey and start running around the bases. All the defensive players except for the pitcher and catcher would be on donkeys. There were also donkey basketball teams. I don’t know if they used the same donkeys.

So, the idea of fish baseball, while not likely, is at least possible. Perhaps more likely would be dolphin baseball.

Quoting T Clark

So, the idea of fish baseball, while not likely, is at least possible. Perhaps more likely would be dolphin baseball.

Dolphins are pretty intelligent, but codfish are more tasty.

NOTE: I have never eaten a dolphin. I'm just guessing based on my personal experience eating codfish.

Quoting javi2541997

based on my personal experience eating codfish.

Yes, cod, haddock, and other saltwater white fish are among my favorite foods. Eating them brings me a great sense of well-being.

Quoting javi2541997

I have never eaten a dolphin. I'm just guessing based on my personal experience eating codfish.

You can't eat dolphin, but you can eat dolphin fish, which is mahi mahi.

Seasons Greetings, everyone. :sparkle: :party: :)

Oh wait, I have to say Merry Christmas now. (I think. Maybe. Don't know any longer.)

Trump Announces 5,000% Increase In All Numbers (— The Onion · Dec 2, 2025)

Quoting Hanover

mahi mahi.

It doesn't seem very appetising, so I ate Greek yogurt with Josefillo chocolate for breakfast instead.

Josefillo chocolate:



Reply to jorndoe Merry Christmas, friend. :sparkle:

waffles

Reply to javi2541997 I had vanilla yogurt and added blackberries, peanuts, and pecans for breakfast. I say Pee-kahn. Others say Pee-can. Others are wrong.

Quoting Hanover

I had vanilla yogurt and added blackberries, peanuts, and pecans for breakfast. I say Pee-kahn. Others say Pee-can. Others are wrong.

Other, more sophisticated, others say puh-kaan, emphasis on the second syllable.

Reply to jorndoe
5000% percent increase? That's the hyperinflation of developing countries, in the eighties.

Reply to Hanover
:up: For the codfish.

Reply to javi2541997 A turn of the century cod family, working hard to make ends meet, but whose perseverance is legendary. They will one day proudly represent the spirit here at TPF.

Both a fascinating and disturbing image I must say.

Reply to Hanover
Oddly, or perhaps not so oddly, the woman looks a little bit like Brooke Shields.

Reply to T Clark Brooke Shields would be a beautiful mermaid if I were to use her image. She is mysterious and stunning in all her depictions and you shall never say otherwise

Quoting Hanover

She is mysterious and stunning in all her depictions and you shall never say otherwise

Hey, don’t complain to me, you’re the one who made the picture.

Quoting Hanover

Both a fascinating and disturbing image I must say.

It is very disturbing. :lol:

What is fascinating is that a codfish can play baseball and raise a family.

Quoting Hanover

Both a fascinating and disturbing image I must say.

Have you ever tried putting a cigarette in a fish's mouth. If not here is a word of advice, don't!

Thoughts?

Reply to Hanover Nice! I would not wear that type of shoes because they are uncomfortable.

Perhaps it is just my experience with my shoes. How are yours?

Wait a second. I think it is more about my feet than shoes.

Reply to javi2541997

Bad feet deserve good shoes. :strong:

Reply to Hanover

I like traditional shoes, so I'm giving you the :up: .

Reply to Jamal Yeah!! :ok:

This is why New Balance is my favourite brand.

Reply to Hanover Nice floor. Nice shoes. Nice pants. Nice picture. Nice post.

As I’ve mentioned before, my son, daughter, and I read a book a year. In 2024 we read.”The Power Broker.” This year we are reading “Infinite Jest.” Now we’re trying to think what we should read next year. I’m looking for suggestions. It can be fiction or non-fiction. It should be long—we like to read about 100 pages a month, so 1000 pages or so. No philosophy or serious science.

Our current list for books under consideration includes “The Autobiography of Mark Twain” and “The Magus.” The latter is a bit short and we’ve all read it before, but it’s one of our favorite books.

Any ideas?

Quoting T Clark

Any ideas?

I would recommend two books that have had a significant impact on me this year (It is true that the number of pages depends on the translation, but I really think these are above 1,000 pages in both English and Spanish):

War and Peace by Tolstoy.

Blinding (it is a novel in three volumes) by Mircea C?rt?rescu.

Reply to T Clark

• Not Wanted on the Voyage by Timothy Findley.
• The Sot Weed Factor by John Barth.
• Mason & Dixon by Thomas Pynchon.
• War and Peace by Lev Tolstoy
• Riddley Walker by Russell Hoban

I found them all hugely enjoyable, and interesting.

Quoting javi2541997

War and Peace by Tolstoy.

:up:

Reply to T Clark Triggered : How the Left Thrives on Hate and Wants to Silence Us by Donald Trump, Jr.

Oh, wait, you said you didn't want a deeply philosophical book. Never mind.

Quoting javi2541997

War and Peace by Tolstoy.

Quoting Jamal

War and Peace by Tolstoy.
— javi2541997

:up:

Yes, forgot to mention “ War and Peace” is on our list too. I read it a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Jamal, I remember you and I discussing it once. Thanks for the other suggestions, I’ll take a look at them.

Quoting Hanover

Triggered : How the Left Thrives on Hate and Wants to Silence Us by Donald Trump, Jr.

Stop the presses!!!! We have a winner.

Reply to T Clark I'd be remiss not to point out how lovely a tradition you have with your children.

Quoting Hanover

I'd be remiss not to point out how lovely a tradition you have with your children.

Thank you for saying so. It was my daughter‘s idea, and I am grateful to her for getting us started.

Random question if I'm allowed: is schopenhauer1 still around? Back when I used these forums he was a frequent poster. He may have mildly ruined my life with his antinatalism persuasion, but I kind of appreciate him for it.

Reply to QuixoticAgnostic It's been a while since we have seen @schopenhauer1 posting here. Perhaps he is taking a break from the Internet.

Yes, I also remember his posts about anti-natalism. He was very active on this topic.

Quoting javi2541997

Perhaps he is taking a break from the Internet.

Speaking of which, are we supposed to pretend the whole @Mudcat episode never occurred?

Reply to Hanover No! I still have him in my mind. However, this episode is puzzling to me. I think I need to take a break from him because I spent many nights trying to discover who @Mudcat actually is.

Quoting Hanover

Speaking of which, are we supposed to pretend the whole Mudcat episode never occurred?

Who's Mudcat?

Quoting Jamal

Who's Mudcat?

Mudcat is the twin brother of Alistair Robinson.

Reply to javi2541997

Never heard of him!

I prefer "mudpout" myself, a bottom feeder with a horny pout, probably for the purpose of stirring up shit.

Quoting QuixoticAgnostic

is schopenhauer1 still around? Back when I used these forums he was a frequent poster. He may have mildly ruined my life with his antinatalism persuasion, but I kind of appreciate him for it.

Quoting javi2541997

It's been a while since we have seen schopenhauer1 posting here. Perhaps he is taking a break from the Internet.

I think @schopenhauer1 is still around. His anti-natalism kind of got shut down by the moderators. They made him put all his thoughts into a single general anti-natalism thread, which made it kind of pointless. I’ve been really impressed by how he opened up his philosophical discussions since then.

Reply to T Clark

Wait...

What if @schopenhauer1 has transformed into @Mudcat? :scream:

Quoting javi2541997

What if schopenhauer1 has transformed into @Mudcat?

It's really much worse than that. There really are only two members on the forum--you and so-called @Jamal. He voices all the other members. By which I mean I voice all the other members. I set this whole thing up years ago just to mess with you.

I know the truth behind the Mudcat incident.

Reply to T Clark I knew you were behind all of this! But, tell me then, why haven't you ever given voice to @Michael Bay?

Reply to Jamal Incident!? It was one of the best TPF moments ever!

Quoting Jamal

I know the truth behind the Mudcat incident.

What did he tell you?

I played ChatGPT in 21 questions where I picked a word. It's final guess for my chosen word was Oscar from Putnam's Twin Earth thought experiment, but I had chosen the present king of France from Russell.

It was dangerously close, but still, Humans 1, AI 0.

Plotting her next move.

The right to exit societal norms is a critical element of progressive pluralistic society. That is, you can neither require books be in your library nor burn books out of your library, but you must allow those who don't want your books not to see your books and permit those who want the books to have them. It's not just a matter of compromise. It's inherent within a just system. The point is not to block the exit. Letting those who reject your norms to exercise theirs separates oppressive regimes from open ones.

Why we can't be transparent in that regard and why we must come to blows is the oddest part.

Quoting Hanover

Letting those who reject your norms to exercise theirs separates oppressive regimes from open ones.

Do you believe every oppressive regime is oppressive for oppression sake? That is to say, to prevent those under it from a harm they either cannot or will not understand? Is a properly run household, not, in it's own way an "oppressive regime" as far as the young folk who live under it are concerned? Surely we shouldn't just "abolish parenthood" and let kids be on their way as soon as they're able to walk and prove they've established essential lifelong control of their basic motor/sensory skills and just let the cards fall where they may for "openness" (freedom's) sake?

Do you believe every "open regime" (new term) is open because it has the best interests of those under it at heart?

Quoting T Clark

Yes, forgot to mention “ War and Peace” is on our list too. I read it a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Jamal, I remember you and I discussing it once.

You know all of what I'm about to say but I want to say it anyway. The only problem with War and Peace is its repeated forays into historiography, the point being to advance a new understanding of the 1812 invasion. That makes it a book with a message, to which the personal dramas are subservient. And then there's the message itself, which is quite inconsistent (in a sense transparently pro-Russian, but pretending not to be).

This is why Tolstoy said it can't be classified as a novel.

Anyway, some readers find it really drags everything down and becomes damagingly anti-climactic, and especially with the epilogue(s?), this is fair. So I guess it's not one to recommend unreservedly. You'll know better than me, but your children might not have the taste or patience for that sort stuff.

It didn't bother me much, because I found his theory interesting.

Quoting Outlander

Do you believe every "open regime" (new term) is open because it has the best interests of those under it at heart?

I think the allowance of variation from the norm is a necessary concession that naturally arises in a pluralistic democratic society if it is to survive. My point being that the exits are pressure relief valves that exist in a healthy system and should not be seen as fractures that need to be patched. It is the patching that leads to problems.

For example, if the book "Johnny's Two Dads" makes its way into the school library, the right should not be permitted to burn the book (relying upon loud moral outrage) nor should the left be permitted to make it required reading (relying upon quiet institutional control), but the book should exist within the system but the right should be able to exit the system (by allowing the book to be avioded).

There are times when the right controls the institution, so it works the other way as well, as in taking a knee during the national anthem. These are exits from the instituion.

This is just to say that there is an inherent tension in the concept of e pluribus unum. In the US, we have many ideologies, customs, religions and so on, but we have but one government. We can't have 50 different school systems, so we have one and we allow those to exit from those matters where there is inconsistency in belief. But that we avoid one another in certain contexts means our system works. If there were complete alignment in a pluralistic society, it would likely signal an oppressive force is controlling. In a non-pluralistic homogenous society, you might have so few who see reason to exit and so the issue doesn't appear as clearly.

The point being that forging a single mind from the masses in a pluralistic society is not the goal. The unifying belief need only be the right to free expression, not that each ought express the same specific beliefs. To the extent this might be obvious, maybe, but it can at least frame the issue as not suggesting we ought to try patch up every difference among us nor should we see every difference as a fracture in unity.

Quoting Hanover

...but the right should be able to exit the system (by allowing the book to be avioded).

I think this is sort of contrary to what "right" means in this context. Having control over the institution is inherent within what "right" means, so the act of 'exiting the system' would not be an act of the right. And so you are proposing that the righties start acting as lefties. It's a lefty's solution.

The inverse can be seen in the paradoxical nature of libertarianism. It intends to give the individual all sorts of capacities, ultimately even the right to exit the system. But it requires an extremely strong system to enforce this desired state. So it can be seen as a paradoxical goal of creating a strong inescapable system for the sake of escaping the system. That is the righty's solution which tries to get the lefty's to start acting like righties.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

Having control over the institution is inherent within what "right" means, so the act of 'exiting the system' would not be an act of the right.

Why is that? Why can't control over the institution be by a leftist government?

You are discussing and doing philosophy in The Shoutbox again. :sad:

Hey, @Michael Bay and @Mudcat, do something please.

Quoting javi2541997

You are discussing and doing philosophy in The Shoutbox again.

If @Hanover has the power and authority to travel into the past to change the history of the forum, he certainly has the power and authority to talk about philosophy in the shout box.

Reply to T Clark Okay, I can't disagree with that, Clarky. :up:

Quoting T Clark

If Hanover has the power and authority to travel into the past to change the history of the forum, he certainly has the power and authority to talk about philosophy in the shout box.

I had the power, but not the authority, so I went back in the past and got it.

Quoting javi2541997

You are discussing and doing philosophy in The Shoutbox again.

@Mudpout, stop stirring the shit with your horny pout.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover I searched "horny pout" on the Internet, and only spooky porn videos appeared.

MU, that was a weird way to wish me a Merry Christmas!

Quoting Hanover

I think the allowance of variation from the norm is a necessary concession that naturally arises in a pluralistic democratic society if it is to survive. My point being that the exits are pressure relief valves that exist in a healthy system and should not be seen as fractures that need to be patched. It is the patching that leads to problems.

Quoting Hanover

To the extent this might be obvious, maybe, but it can at least frame the issue as not suggesting we ought to try patch up every difference among us nor should we see every difference as a fracture in unity.

Ooh, this is good. This is real good. I shall parrot this in many a situation in the future, I assure thee.

Quoting javi2541997

MU, that was a weird way to wish me a Merry Christmas!

Santa Claus allows knows what everyone really wants.

Around here, we call that fish mudpout. They're called that because they have a big pout, with horns coming off the lip which they use to go around stirring up the mud, looking for something to eat. They're good to eat, but they will also live in polluted water, so discretion is advisable, just like with your internet searches.

To you javi, Merry Christmas! And keep stirring up shit.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

To you javi, Merry Christmas! And keep stirring up shit.

Yeah, cheers!

I'm painting teddy bears:

Reply to javi2541997

I would love to paint teddy bears right now.

Merry Christmas to you Javi, and to a large number of other TPFers!

Reply to Jamal Merry Christmas, Jamal!

Just in time for Christmas, we had the first real winter day today. It was down around minus 18 C. Mostly, I stayed indoors, but I ventured out three times. In the morning I fed the birds. Most of them are great tits, a type of bird called chickadees in North America, although this particular species is an exclusively Old World species.

Anyway, I hung out some balls of fat for them. Which means I can say that my day revolved around tits and balls. That's the whole point of this boring fucking story.

The second venturing out was to get some meter readings from the outside of the house. I didn't think I'd need gloves to be outside for 3 or 4 minutes but when I got back inside my hands were painfully cold.

The third time was a crunchy walk along the lane, when I took some photos, though it wasn't easy with my numb fingers.

Quoting Jamal

It was down around minus 18 C.

We have only minus 1 C and I think it is very cold; I can't imagine how that feels. More than "bloody cold."


Quoting Jamal

I didn't think I'd need gloves to be outside for 3 or 4 minutes but when I got back inside my hands were painfully cold.

I thought the same this morning – and yet I experienced the same pain in my hands. Cold can be dangerous, Jamal. We have to be careful. Right, @Michael Bay?

Quoting Jamal

The third time was a crunchy walk along the lane, when I took some photos, though it wasn't easy with my numb fingers.

Beautiful! Where is the troika?

Reply to Jamal Where are you these days?

I saw the post was from you, but after I read the first two paragraphs, I had to go back and check and make sure it wasn’t written by @Hanover.

Quoting T Clark

Where are you these days?

Right now I'm in the Upper Volga region.

If my post reminded you of Hanover, it's only because I was posting according to the standard Shoutbox style.

Nietzsche, Twilight, § 2 Reason in Philosophy :The senses do not lie at all. What we make of their testimony, that alone introduces lies; for example the lie of unity, the lie of thinghood, of substance, of permanence. Reason is the cause of our falsification of the testimony of the senses...

Reply to Jamal My day was fairly similar.

What happened was that my belly was empty, so I mounted my neighbor's ass to go purchase some cock to tide me over until morning. I rode the ass hard and was almost entirely spent once at the store, but I was glad I came. I bought as much cock as I could eat for the evening and came home.

Once back home, my wife greeted me with a suspicious smile, asking me if I sodomized the neighbor in a double entendre sort of way. I insisted that I had just ridden the neighbor's donkey to purchase some poultry at the local butcher, notwithstanding the semen on my chin.

Quoting Jamal

Right now I'm in the Upper Volga region.

Have you met the boatmen?

Quoting Hanover

Have you met the boatmen?

I was thinking that same thing, but I managed to not ask it.

You can have fish stew with potatoes, bok choy, and some Texas Pete.

Quoting frank

I was thinking that same thing, but I managed to not ask it.

Your self discipline is your superpower.

Quoting frank

You can have fish stew with potatoes, bok choy, and some Texas Pete

I thought you'd have suggested Frank's hot sauce.

Quoting Hanover

thought you'd have suggested Frank's hot sauce

I can't advise something just because it has my name on it!

My ready to eat meal box from Factor arrived an hour ago. It was supposed to have arrived Monday. This is the second time in a row this has happened. I opened up one meal from the middle and one at the bottom and checked the temperature with a thermometer. Solid 70. It's not supposed to be above 41. Needless to say I am livid. Hopefully everyone else's holiday is going better than mine.

I blame FedEx. I made the mistake of flirting with the young female delivery person a few times. Now she wants to move in with me, I bet. Which isn't possible. I can't prove it, but I know she has something to do with this. She doesn't like it when I'm happy. True enough story.

Quoting frank

I can't advise something just because it has my name on it!

I strongly endorse Clark Bars.

You can tell they're good from the burglar bars on the windows.

Reply to Hanover May I eat those for breakfast?

Anyway, I ate Oikos yoghurt with apple and cinnamon for breakfast. A very sweet and tasty flavour. I think it became my favourite Oikos yoghurt.

Quoting Hanover

You can tell they're good from the burglar bars on the windows.

The best pizza I ever had was at a place called Victory Pizza in Hammond, Indiana—a very beat up neighborhood in a very beat up northern Indiana town. Not only did they have bars on the windows, they had plexiglass screens like they have in banks in front of the cash registers. And they made their own sausage.

Reply to T Clark

Be honest, were you drunk? You were drunk, weren't you?

You Think Food Tastes Better If It's Pricier

Do bear in mind, price or cost isn't always in a traditional financial sense. It could be risk, danger, expectation, compassion, etc. You took a chance, and it paid off. Or so your mind dictated it to.

My canned fish variety pack arrived.

Reply to Hanover

Portuguese?

Quoting Jamal

Portuguese?

Harvested locally in the Atlanta Ocean.

Quoting Outlander

You were drunk, weren't you?

Alas, no.

This from Wikipedia:

The inanimate whose refers to the use in English of the relative pronoun whose with non-personal antecedents, as in: "That's the car whose alarm keeps waking us up at night." The construction is also known as the whose inanimate, non-personal whose, and neuter whose.

According to the web, this usage is generally considered grammatically correct.

That's the car whose alarm keeps waking us up at night."

Whosevers car it is, still sounds like you need get the hell out the hood.

@javi2541997 I got a lottery ticket as well. The winner gets $1.7 billion.

Reply to Hanover That's crazy!!!!

Good luck, Hanover! :up:

Merry Christmas to all, specially to @Mudcat and @Michael Bay.

Wait. I think I already posted this. Sorry, I'm a bit drunk right now... too much beer and champagne.

Reply to javi2541997

Dylan: "and like a fool, I mixed them."

Reply to Hanover
1.7 billion, I can't even count that high. But I know it's a busload of millions.

Quoting Hanover

Harvested locally in the Atlanta Ocean.

That's a swimming pool.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
Merry Christmas you big scrooge-bag!

Reply to frank
Same to you, you son of a grinch. Merry Christmas!

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
:grin:

Anyway,

Merry Christmas, everyone.

Reply to Banno Hmmm. Interesting.

Oh well. Guess I need to call the yacht place and cancel my order.

Quoting Hanover

Oh well. Guess I need to call the yacht place and cancel my order.

Perhaps the most concerning thing about this post is that your battery is charged at about 26%.

That being said, Merry Christmas, everyone.

Goose, prior to cooking.

Reply to Jamal Let's see it after it's cooked.

I've never had goose. It looks difficult to cook and too expensive to experiment with. I picture in my mind Brits eating it with the fork turned upside down in one hand and a knife in the other like they do.

A picture confirming that mental imagine would be helpful but not required.

Reply to javi2541997 Reply to frank Reply to Banno Reply to Metaphysician Undercover Reply to L'éléphant Reply to T Clark Reply to Jamal
Reply to Paine Reply to Hanover


Merry Christmas!

We had our family Christmas last night, and the rest of the day is open for me. I plan on wasting all day doing as little as possible and then going over to the folks for chili.

Reply to Hanover

Sadly, I forgot to take photos after it was cooked. I can let you see my Christmas pyjamas and footwear if that helps.



Salt the goose inside and out and plonk it in a hot oven, then take it out when it's cooked and decant the gallons of fat into a suitable vessel and also into the pan you're going to use for the roast potatoes, then leave the goose to rest while the potatoes and whatever else cooks. Bob's your uncle. I did 1.5 hours for a 3.4 kg goose (a small one, it was)

Reply to Moliere

Merry Christmas!

Reply to javi2541997

:up: :party:

Quoting Jamal

I can let you see my Christmas pyjamas and footwear if that helps

Thank you. Yes. Very helpful.

Quoting Jamal

Bob's your uncle.

Never heard that expression before. We just yell "AND BAM!"

Best Christmas gift ever. :heart:

Merry Chraunamis.

Merry Christmas :party:

So no short stories under the tree this year?

Reply to Moliere
A belated back at you. Time to start a batch of Hoppin John for the New Year.

Reply to T Clark

neuter whose.

These are what I wear to bed on Christmas Eve.

Reply to Paine I've never had, but it looks good by the recipe I looked up.

Quoting Noble Dust

These are what I wear to bed on Christmas Eve.

Yes…well…hmmm.

What if instead of skin we had bony plates that get thicker with age. People would have their plates professionally buffed and maybe put decorative carvings on them. And a big horn right in the middle of the face, and a small tail.

Quoting frank

What if instead of skin we had bony plates that get thicker with age. People would have their plates professionally buffed and maybe put decorative carvings on them. And a big horn right in the middle of the face, and a small tail.

What you're referencing is an armadilloian super hero that relies upon shielding for protection over aggressive sharpened teeth or laser beam eyes. It"s a classic shield over sword mentality. With it comes reduced speed (think turtles (with the exception of the ninja turtle mutation)) and muscular stresses from weight.

The beautification systems would likely be elaborate, but probably no more so than when a lady gets her hair did.

As to carvings, I refer you to Leviticus 19:28.

Quoting Moliere

I plan on wasting all day doing as little as possible and then going over to the folks for chili.

I like it when people say this. I feel I'm closer to humanity.
I also did nothing on Christmas. I couldn't drink anymore, so there's that.

Reply to Hanover
I did minimal decoration this year -- not that I'd gone overboard in the past years. This time, I hang a tiny wreath on the door, that's it. I couldn't find the string lights which is strange considering my place is small. Frustrating.

Nice tree btw. I would have gotten a fresh tree, but someone staying with me is afraid of the needles and whatever animals that might hitched on the branches like opposum, beetles, or a bird. *sigh* :roll:

Reply to Jamal
:smile:

Quoting Hanover

It"s a classic shield over sword mentality.

That's so me. I wish I had a giant shell like a clam.

Yew, ewe, you, U

Palmeritas for breakfast... :yum:

My favorites are the ones made of sesame seeds.

Quoting javi2541997

Palmeritas

Palmiers in French. One of my favorites. Pastries in similar shapes are called elephant ears here in the US, but they usually are not nearly as good. Shortening instead of butter.

Reply to T Clark Glad to know they are one of your favourites too. Apart from having different shapes, I found different sizes. The pastry shop which I was at last Friday was selling big chocolate palmeritas, but I like them more when they are smaller—around half the size of my palm.

Quoting T Clark

Yew, ewe, you, U

Sea, see, sí, C

Quoting Outlander

Sea, see, sí, C

Ketchup, catchup, catsup

Quoting T Clark

Ketchup, catchup, catsup

You're up, Europe. Your rope.

:halo:

Quoting Outlander

You're up, Europe. Your rope.

Ahem…

Locusta migratoria—my new neighbour.

Quoting L'éléphant

I like it when people say this. I feel I'm closer to humanity.
I also did nothing on Christmas

People frequently overlook the value of doing nothing, I find -- everything is about productivity, self-improvement, efficiency: Make enough roses to sell but not enough time to smell them. (or in our case in this corner of the internet, think about them)

29.9k.

If the cut off is in March, I'm well on target.

This is how things have gotten in the US. Our money is all worn out and it has chocolate inside of it.

Quoting Banno

Banno
30k
29.9k.

If the cut off is in March, I'm well on target.

This is why I don't think you're a real person sometimes. It clearly says 30k to... every other person on Earth. You're smart but somethings clearly off nonetheless. You should probably look into that.

Quoting Outlander

This is why I don't think you're a real person sometimes.

Is it that there are times in which you do not think that I am a real person because you sometimes think I am not real, or that when you do think about me you think that I am real, but there are times at which you do not think about me?

Quoting frank

This is how things have gotten in the US. Our money is all worn out and it has chocolate inside of it.

Hanukkah gelt

I started with 30,000 posts and I'm counting down, like Benjamin Button.

Reply to Outlander
Banno lives on a possible Earth, but calls it the actual Earth. Actual person on a possible Earth? I doubt it, but then how is Banno trying to communicate? More likely, a possible person on the actual earth.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover @Banno lives in no possible universe, making his existence only possible in the impossible universe, which happens to be this universe.

He therefore exists actually, but not possibly.

Quoting Hanover

Banno lives in no possible universe

Not I. I'm in a possible world. Meta, by his own admission, lives in the actual world but claims it not to be a possible world.

You have us the wrong way around.

I'm more concerned with how much time Reply to Outlander spends thinking about me. Could there be times when I am not the sole subject of his rumination?

Quoting Banno

I'm more concerned with how much time ?Outlander
spends thinking about me. Could there be times when I am not the sole subject of his rumination?

Jeez, you'd think a normal man would be flattered. And of course I think about you. I don't have a choice. You post here so damn much. :lol:

Of course, I could simply peruse elsewhere. But where else is there really to satisfy the intellectual itch? Reddit? Ha. I think not. :smirk:

Quoting Outlander

...of course I think about you. I don't have a choice...

...and so I take possession of your soul...

Reply to Banno
You've possessed my soul for the past month. No one could giv'er like I did, to assist you in reaching the desired tally.

Now that you've obtained the ultimate goal will you leave us in peace for a few months?

Quoting Banno

...and so I take possession of your soul...

You know, if you really knew for a fact, deep down and for certain, religious people are just silly and wasting their time, a respectable intellect wouldn't spend their time belittling those clearly unfortunate and so beneath them. You know what I think it is. You're scared. That we have all the answers and the longer and more intense your mission is to discover that which cannot be discovered, the further away you get from the truth. You're scared. That's all. That in the blink of an eye everything you've thought to be the bona fide truth is little more than an illusion. And you don't know how to express it other than these odd, juvenile forms of false vindication and psuedo-justification which involves (or perhaps revolves around) belittlement and mockery. Something you fear might be your eternal destiny for all time forevermore. Good. This is a welcome and seldom first step from you toward the truth. May I be here to guide (if not force) many more.

Reply to Outlander The fear expressed in that post... it's not mine. It's your own.

A recent study followed thousands of vaccinated children over a 10 year period, and while it didn't show a specific rise in autism rates, it did show a concerning drop in measels.

Quoting Banno

The fear expressed in that post... it's not mine. It's your own.

We call that mental walling in the industry. When one so adamantly wishes to avoid something they create a literal library of reasons why it's not relevant to them. It works. Sometimes for an entire lifetime. Unless of course, the rubber were ever to meet the road.

But perhaps you're right. If so, it's an honor to meet a man who knows all there is to know. I can't say I've ever had the fortune to. Excluding kindergarten. :smile:

Reply to Outlander I'm happy not knowing everything. And doing that well. You felt threatened by my joke. Curious. But that's about you.

Reply to Hanover Didn't the police talk to you already about following children?

Anyway. Let's get back to what's important. String theory, for example.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ5dj-Ozwm0

Which, incidentally, at least in theory, spawned the popular Steven King novel "The Langoliers", which led to the hit albeit seldom covered movie:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EifR0fVjn_U

Shh. Everybody gather around. Pop some popcorn and sit around for a watch. :smile:

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

You've possessed my soul for the past month. No one could giv'er like I did, to assist you in reaching the desired tally.

Now that you've obtained the ultimate goal will you leave us in peace for a few months?

It would be remise of me not to acknowledge your part in my triumph, Meta. Without you there would have been much less error to expose, and so far fewer posts. So as your reward I will happily go back to ignoring you, once the 30k clicks over.

Should we have a quality versus quantity discussion?

I can't keep it straight. Has Australia already celebrated the New Year?

Reply to Hanover In about seven hours.

Tricky, this living in the future.

Quoting Hanover

I can't keep it straight. Has Australia already celebrated the New Year?

Midnight is about four hours away. I live in the center of the city. Fireworks are set to go, and roads are blocked to vehicle traffic. Small children have arrived with their parents for the 9?pm “children’s fireworks,” soon to be followed by orgiastic public drunkenness and general ratbaggery. I might watch from my balcony. Last year the noise was deafening.

Reply to Banno Reply to Tom Storm

The Scots started this tradition I am to learn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogmanay

@Jamal s grandpappy did this.

Reply to Hanover

Quoting Hanover

...Hogmanay...

Hogswatch is traditional 32nd December.

Reply to Jamal Bullwinkle smashed through your wall.

Resolutions?

Quoting Hanover

Resolutions?

To be more all-round "resolute." As far as whether that means abandoning vices or simply doubling down on them, fate has yet to decide.

Reply to Jamal

Quoting Hanover

I can't keep it straight.

Are you still in last year?

Quoting Banno

Are you still in last year?

I am, but once in next year, I'll resolve to call it next year the entire year. Otherwise, next year will always be the anticipated thing that never comes.

I take comfort though in being here while you're always there.

Reply to Hanover All very good. I see you shiver with anticip...

Quoting Banno

So as your reward I will happily go back to ignoring you, once the 30k clicks over.

Your odometer hasn't hit 30k yet? Are you still in last year?

A hermaneitic to understanding metaphor:

"You must well understand what I have said, for it is a principle of the utmost importance with respect to those things which I intend to expound. If you observe in one of the chapters that I explained the meaning of a certain figure, and pointed out to you its general scope, do not trouble yourself further in order to find an interpretation of each separate portion, for that would lead you to one of the two following erroneous courses; either you will miss the sense included in the metaphor, or you will be induced to explain certain things which require no explanation, and which are not introduced for that purpose. Through this unnecessary trouble you may fall into the great error which besets most modern sects in their foolish writings and discussions; they all endeavour to find some hidden meaning in expressions which were never uttered by the author in that sense. Your object should be to discover in most of the figures the general idea which the author wishes to express. In some instances it will be sufficient if you understand from my remarks that a certain expression contains a figure, although I may offer no further comment. For when you know that it is not to be taken literally, you will understand at once to what subject it refers. My statement that it is a figurative expression will, as it were, remove the screen from between the object and the observer."

Literalism as a path to error, particularly to the extent all statements are metaphorical.

From Maimonides, Guide for the Perplexed.

Reply to Hanover Is it next year yet?

It is next year.... Happy 2026 everyone!

Quoting Banno

Is it next year yet?

I remain in the decay of year's past, sitting next to Jacob Marley who drones on about something or another.

I need the damn ball to drop so I can sing the meaningless lyrics of auld land syne and get into next year with the underworld folks down under.

Quoting Hanover

the underworld folks down under

At this rate, it'll be tomorrow before you get here...

Quoting Tobias

It is next year.... Happy 2026 everyone!

Where are you that it just hit midnight? ? On a boat in the Atlantic?

Quoting Banno

At this rate, it'll be tomorrow before you get here...

ChatGPT calculates I must run 1040 mph westbound if positioned on the equator if I wish to outrun the dawn and remain in the darkness of yesterday.

Quoting Hanover

Where are you that it just hit midnight? ? On a boat in the Atlantic?

I don't know 'bout 'Merca, but in other parts, once we gets to the new year we stays there for a bit.

Quoting Banno

I don't know 'bout 'Merca, but in other parts, once we gets to the new year we stays there for a bit.

Curious folks the Nonmericans.

Must be off. The sunshine bout lit up my fleeing ass and brought me into tomorrow

Quoting Hanover

Where are you that it just hit midnight? ? On a boat in the Atlantic?

Yeah, I always go on a sailing trip when the new year arrives don't you?

Quoting Tobias

Yeah, I always go on a sailing trip when the new year arrives don't you?

I do and I am. Is that you in the pirate ship just ahead of me? I'm the guy in the tie dyed poncho waving wildly.

What a coincidence! Come on board, mate, there is some rum left. Red bandana and the eye patch is me.

I awoke to tomorrow and I'm now enjoying next year. Today is a memory and I look forward to overmorrow.

What makes a man post on a philosophy forum after a 9 year hiatus of inactivity. I refuse to continue into 2026 without first gaining understanding of this bizarre behavior.

@everyone: Happy New Year, of course, 1/1/26 and all. It's still Christmastide, so Merry Christmas to you all.

Cold here -- 7ºF. -14C, but then it's winter so it's supposed to be cold. Welcome normality.

AI says happy new year!


Not really. It was me.

Happy new year, everyone!!

Quoting Moliere

People frequently overlook the value of doing nothing, I find -- everything is about productivity, self-improvement, efficiency: Make enough roses to sell but not enough time to smell them. (or in our case in this corner of the internet, think about them)

Good line.
I think for a lot of people, the "nothing" is not something to plan about. But oh yes, that's what I actually plan sometimes come Friday. I plan to do nothing this weekend.

I dream and remember my dreams often. They’re usually what I call anxiety dreams— you know, final exams, and I haven’t been to class since the first day, I have to dial 911 but I can’t get my phone to work. I always wake up with a sense of relief, but also a sense of disturbance that lasts for a while.

But last night I had a dream that was different. In it a young girl in the 1800s was crocheting a pillow. Then there was a switch to a scene with another little girl in modern times. The same pillow was sitting on the couch next to her. My assumption is the second little girl is the great great granddaughter of the first. Nice sweet little dream I woke up feeling good. Where the hell did that come from?

Drew Carey.

Reply to T Clark

I'm an interpreter of dreams (and I also do minor home repairs), so you've come to the right place.

Yours is the cloth, the girls have the hands that sew time, all of you searching for the force that lies within. All hold the fire, the warmth you can find, but it's all feather in the wind.

I think that's right.

Quoting Hanover

I think that's right.

Makes sense to me.

Quoting T Clark

I have to dial 911 but I can’t get my phone to work.

I too have this. Not often, at least not recently. But I can recall this vividly. In Society We Trust.

Quoting T Clark

In it a young girl in the 1800s was crocheting a pillow.

That's oddly specific. Was there some sort of old calendar open nearby, did she say "Hi it's 1800", or did you just assume because a person in a modest house with classy clothing has to be undeniably anachronistic? :chin:

Quoting Outlander

That's oddly specific. Was there some sort of old calendar open nearby, did she say "Hi it's 1800", or did you just assume because a person in a modest house with classy clothing has to be undeniably anachronistic? :chin:

She was in a large antebellum hoop dress.

Quoting Outlander

That's oddly specific. Was there some sort of old calendar open nearby, did she say "Hi it's 1800", or did you just assume because a person in a modest house with classy clothing has to be undeniably anachronistic?

One knows things in dreams.

Reply to T Clark Recall the pillow from the dream, then free-associate to it. Tell us what pops into your head. Successful therapy requires that you be completely honest in telling us therapists what popped into your head. Now free-associate the same way with every other image that you can recall from the dream. We probably won't judge you, no matter what you report. After all, you can't help it. You are not in charge of the fetid swamp of your unconscious mind. (Don't take it personally -- that's just the way the unconscious mind is.)

The women in your dream might be your mother / daughter / sister / mistress, whatever. You can be honest with us. After all, we are professional therapists and nothing surprises us. Plus, therapists enjoy hearing about patients' polymorphous perverted wishes.

Another exercise in connection with 911: Why did you feel the need to call 911? What did you do that would require a report to the police/fire/medical authorities? What did you see?

If none of this helps sooth the turbulence in you mind, take some thorazine.

Quoting BC

If none of this helps sooth the turbulence in you mind, take some thorazine.

You seem to be assuming I’m not already on thorazine.

The proper outcome of a well administered childhood is the elimination of dreams so adults won't be distracted by what might be as they go about their necessary tasks.

This photo depicts a dream free life, as posed by our very own @Michael Bay

Quoting T Clark

One knows things in dreams.

That's a very strange aspect of dreams. I often wake up wondering how I knew what I knew in the dream. For example, I'll have a dream involving some person, and in the dream I'll know exactly who the person is, my brother perhaps. But when i wake up, I'll realize that the person didn't look at all like my brother, and I'll wonder how I knew it was my brother. Maybe my faculty of imagination is so fucked up, that it can't properly imagine the things that my dreams request that it imagine. The dream names my brother, but the imagination fails to do what it's told.

What's with the influx of folk who joined years ago, posted twice and then submarined?

Did @Jamal send out an email?

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover It's an interesting Wittgensteinian sort of example. Your confusion arose upon awakening upon realization you might have misused the term "brother" in your dream, and you now wonder why you did that. Whether the dream was "really" of your brother rests not upon a referent because there is none but upon your usage of the term. The clarity gained with awakening has resulted in language correction, which is evidence your word usage followed rules (i.e. "grammar"), and is therefore a valid game, and therefore language.

That is to say, your brother might not appeared in your dream. Was your dream usage consistent with common use?

Quoting Banno

What's with the influx of folk who joined years ago, posted twice and then submarined?

Like they're the odd ones and not those that log in and post 30.1k times?

Reply to Hanover Well... obviously.

Reply to Hanover On that topic, my own odometer just clicked over to 30k.

Quoting Banno

On that topic, my own odometer just clicked over to 30k.

Interesting you should be rigged up to an odometer. It is a good way to know how much life you have left.

Reply to Hanover An odometer tells one how far they have gone, not how far the have left to go.

Quoting Banno

An odometer tells one how far they have gone, not how far the have left to go.

The actuaries provide a chart you can check against and see what to expect.

Quoting Hanover

It's an interesting Wittgensteinian sort of example. Your confusion arose upon awakening upon realization you might have misused the term "brother" in your dream, and you now wonder why you did that. Whether the dream was "really" of your brother rests not upon a referent because there is none but upon your usage of the term. The clarity gained with awakening has resulted in language correction, which is evidence your word usage followed rules (i.e. "grammar"), and is therefore a valid game, and therefore language.

That is to say, your brother might not appeared in your dream. Was your dream usage consistent with common use?

I'd have to say the opposite. I know it was my brother, because I know my brother very well, and the dream (myself) told me unequivocally, that it was my brother. So I'm very certain it was my brother, and the use of words is correct. However, it didn't look like my brother. I think it indicates something Platonic, like "the senses deceive". Someone who doesn't look like your brother could very well be your brother, and you'd only know if you had inside information.

Quoting Hanover

The actuaries provide a chart you can check against and see what to expect.

I can't use them They only work for folk who are average.

Reply to Hanover
Truly, you have a dizzying intellect.

Reply to T Clark Wait til I get going.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

I'd have to say the opposite. I know it was my brother, because I know my brother very well, and the dream (myself) told me unequivocally, that it was my brother. So I'm very certain it was my brother, and the use of words is correct. However, it didn't look like my brother. I think it indicates something Platonic, like "the senses deceive". Someone who doesn't look like your brother could very well be your brother, and you'd only know if you had inside information.

I reject the Platonic as essentialist and hopelessly nebulous. You reference a seemingly spontaneous context that ascribed particular meaning on your use. Because it was a dream, the physical rules of order didn't apply and you could know you were in Peoria without having traveled there.

Or simply put, every use necessarily has a context, and the dream started you within a context, and so the strange man was your brother in that context (but the duck could have been a rabbit).

You awoke, confused as to where the context came from, now wondering why he was your brother, unbothered by the other fantastical events of the dream, like perhaps the talking spider or singing walls.

Reply to Banno I figure thats the group of people who noticed how we're not worth paying attention to because we hate grifters and all the rest. Or the real deal philosophers that decided the internet is not worth their time.

Quoting Hanover

You awoke, confused as to where the context came from, now wondering why he was your brother, unbothered by the other fantastical events of the dream, like perhaps the talking spider or singing walls.

So you're saying that I might have equally wondered, why was the spider talking, as wonder why my brother didn't look like my brother. But I'll ask you, how would you know that it was a spider, if it was talking? And we're back in the same hole. You know it was a spider because that's what the dream told you. But how could it be a spider if it was talking?

Quoting T Clark

One knows things in dreams.

i think Hanover is convincing me that one really knows nothing in dreams.

If I were Denmark, I’d be shitting my pants.

Quoting T Clark

If I were Denmark, I’d be shitting my pants.

I always found it fascinating how people are so frightened of living life alone they have to not only associate, but found their entire identity and sense of worth and purpose with something larger, yet wholly non-existent. Not really. Sure, there's a section of the planet people acknowledge as a word, and give this word meaning by committing (often sacrificing) their lives to it and raising children to believe in it and of course to do the same. But it's still just a made-up word that really means nothing.

Anyway. Why are you worried about people who identify as a place (unless you mean people who live in said place and this is some odd way of referring to the people there) called Denmark? There's literally nothing of note going on there as far as any media channels prescribe. Do you have "insider knowledge"? :smirk:

Quoting Outlander

There's literally nothing of note going on there as far as any media channels prescribe.

Maybe I was a bit obscure. Perhaps someone else can explain.

Reply to Outlander Reply to T Clark

The US attacked Venezuela and abducted their President, and Trump has repeatedly talked about wanting to annex Greenland, which is an autonomous territory of Denmark?

Reply to Michael


I'm glad to see I wasn't too obscure.

Quoting Michael

The US attacked Venezuela and abducted their President, and Trump has repeatedly talked about wanting to annex Greenland, which is an autonomous territory of Denmark?

Ah, that's right. Haven't heard that brought up in a while, however. Though I can't observe every single thing, naturally.

What were the reasons "leading up" to that event, however? There was a few weeks of "drug boat" accusations and military strikes. Concerns of a dictatorship, allegedly. So, all things considered, it wasn't an entirely "out of the blue" event. Point being, I can't quite compare the two in a sense that validates the original concern I replied to.

Quoting Outlander

Ah, that's right. Haven't heard that brought up in a while, however. Though I can't observe every single thing, naturally.

The most recent news article I can find is from a few weeks ago: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgmd132ge4o

Donald Trump has sparked a fresh row with Denmark after appointing a special envoy to Greenland, the vast Arctic island he has said he would like to annex.

In response to a question from the BBC about the new role of Jeff Landry, the Republican governor of Louisiana, Trump said the US needed Greenland for "national protection" and that "we have to have it".

...

He has refused to rule out using force to secure control of the island, a stance that has shocked Denmark, a Nato ally that has traditionally enjoyed close relations with Washington.

"We'll have to work that out," Trump added. "We need Greenland for national security, not minerals."

Quoting Outlander

What were the reasons "leading up" to that event, however? There was a few weeks of "drug boat" accusations and military strikes. Concerns of a dictatorship, allegedly. So, all things considered, it wasn't an entirely "out of the blue" event. Point being, I can't quite compare the two in a sense that validates the original concern I replied to.

Allegedly for Narco-Terrorism Conspiracy, Cocaine Importation Conspiracy, Possession of Machineguns and Destructive Devices, and Conspiracy to Possess Machineguns and Destructive Devices against the United States.

But then last month he pardoned the former President of Honduras who was convicted of similar crimes, so there's a reason to believe that Trump doesn't actually care about the drug imports and has ulterior motives.

Eviction of a socialist nation with alignment with China, Russia, and Iran from the Americas. And oil. Always oil.

Will NATO protect Greenland?

Quoting Hanover

Will NATO protect Greenland?

It will be [s]fun[/s] interesting to watch.

Quoting Michael

The most recent news article I can find is from a few weeks ago:

This is from Jan 2--US seeks unpaid local interns at Greenland consulate as annexation threats loom

Quoting Hanover

Always oil.

Apparently they have a lot of minerals the US needs.

The problem with most metaphysics is that it posits BEING when there is only BECOMING. That we can never achieve being is the reason we say the senses lie... but thats a fallacy of logic. We cannot capture being because in truth it is becoming. Being is an empty fiction forced through the psychology of grammar and language which is irreducibly platonic and forces us to perceive things as "Being." As a defined goal.

The "true world" grew out of the apparent world of our senses as an addendum, an occultation of the world.

Reply to DifferentiatingEgg Now that you've clarified it, the problem has been cured though

Reply to Hanover

Aye

No metaphysics.

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

The problem with most metaphysics is that it posits BEING when there is only BECOMING. That we can never achieve being is the reason we say the senses lie... but thats a fallacy of logic. We cannot capture being because in truth it is becoming. Being is an empty fiction forced through the psychology of grammar and language which is irreducibly platonic and forces us to perceive things as "Being." As a defined goal.

I think, therefore I want to be.
Metaphysics.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover BEing Be an empty fiction. Thinking, an effect of the instincts.

Metaphysics is the referring of various phenomena back to an origin of "unity."

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

?Metaphysician Undercover BEing Be an empty fiction. Thinking, an effect of the instincts.

Metaphysics is the referring of various phenomena back to an origin of "unity."

Are you saying if reality is becoming, there is no unity?

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

No metaphysics

I don't know that's right. There's an underlying structure, but we must commit to a different way of knowing it.

I think.

It's too much a leap to say we can't speak of something and say therefore it isn't. We commit the greatest category error to suggest grammar dictates metaphysics, whether to cause or it prevent it.

I think.

But I took you as saying things weren't static, but in flux, which is standard fare physics. We're all a clattering around of stuffs, not at rest down to our most constitute parts.

New strings on the Electromatic...

Savage.

Quoting Banno

New strings on the Electromatic...

Send us an audio file.

Reply to Hanover Maybe. Her indoors says it's too loud, distorted and out of tune...

I says "yep!"

Quoting Hanover

It's too much a leap to say we can't speak of something and say therefore it isn't. We commit the greatest category error to suggest grammar dictates metaphysics, whether to cause or it prevent it.

Truely, you h… Oh, wait. Never mind.

Quoting Hanover

We commit the greatest category error to suggest grammar dictates metaphysics, whether to cause or it prevent it.

Most metaphysics is broken grammar.

Quoting Banno

Most metaphysics is broken grammar.

"Most metaphysics talk is broken grammar" I think is better, else you've spoken of metaphysics, and such is broken.

Quoting T Clark

Truely, you h… Oh, wait. Never mind.

Surely you know other movies.

I've lobbed this one up for you.

Reply to Hanover Nuh. I said what I meant. Most metaphysics consists in tripping over words, using 'em bad, like.

Quoting Hanover

Surely you know other movies.

Of course I do, and don’t call me Trudy.

Quoting Hanover

Surely you know other movies.

I've lobbed this one up for you.

Oh, wait, I think that’s your line.

When Greenland becomes a state, where will the star fit on the flag? Maybe put it in the middle of a stripe.

Quoting Banno

Most metaphysics consists in tripping over words, using 'em bad, like.

And I say your comments herein about metaphysics satisfies the criteria of word tripping.

Quoting Hanover

When Greenland becomes a state, where will the star fit on the flag?

Next to the one for Venezuela.

Quoting Banno

Next to the one for Venezuela.

Don’t forget Canada.

Quoting T Clark

Don’t forget Canada.

We can't take Canada. They vote Democrat. Greenland has only 57,000 people, but they'll get 2 Senators. Or not. I'm sure that can be changed.

@Banno

We’ll save Australia. Wouldn’t wanna hurt no kangaroos.

The Danes probably will go back to Daneland anyway. They're too big to fit here. Even their dogs are ginormous.

Reply to T Clark We don't want Australia. It's tomorrow all the time there. We've been over this.

Better of keeping Dow Nunder as a client state.

Quoting Hanover

There's an underlying structure

Underlying structure to what? You never access it and thus you never KNOW it. Superficial from profundity.

Quoting Hanover

It's too much a leap to say we can't speak of something and say therefore it isn't.

I mean you can talk about empty fictions all you want. Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

Metaphysics is the referring of various phenomena back to an origin of "unity."

The reason why it's an empty fiction is because unity is a style of being. And yes language and grammar are irreducibly platonic and force the concept Being onto a world of Becoming. And can only appear otherwise in the misleading errors of language (and the fundamental fallacies of reason which have become petrified therein), which understands, and understands wrongly, all working as conditioned by a worker, by a "subject."

Quoting Hanover

flux, which is standard fare physics

Precisely. Hence Unity and Being are both empty fictions, and thus any metaphysics discussing being is more so tongue in cheek humor.

Quoting T Clark

Are you saying if reality is becoming, there is no unity?

Being is fundamental to unity as it posits a multiplicity as a new single thing in itself.

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

Precisely. Hence Unity and Being are both empty fictions, and thus any metaphysics discussing being is more so tongue in cheek humor.

Are you arguing Heraclitus/ Nietzschian flux?

Reply to Hanover Heraclitus finds the senses still lie, though dissimilarly as the Eleatics believe they do. Whereas the senses don't lie at all.

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

Whereas the senses don't lie at all.

How can you make that claim? Simply because you have normal senses and grew up in a society that long before you already pointed out the obvious (and not so obvious) things normal senses detect (and cannot)?

There are people born without ability to feel physical pain. Yet they (generally) tend to think quite normally as far as perceiving the world around them. Ergo, perhaps there are more senses to evolve or otherwise ascertain that would reveal a greater "inaccuracy" about the world we think we know. You cannot illustrate any proof to the contrary.

Reply to T Clark

And now this:

The Danish ambassador to the U.S. has urged Washington to "respect" Denmark's territory after a prominent MAGA figure revived the long-running tensions between the two NATO members over Greenland.

Katie Miller, the wife of White House deputy chief of staff, Stephen Miller, had posted an image to social media that showed the American flag overlaid on the outline of Greenland. Miller's post, which came after U.S. action in Venezuela, included the map with the word "SOON."

Quoting Outlander

Yet they (generally) tend to think quite normally as far as perceiving the world around them.

Exactly, the fact that Helen Keller could learn to perceive the world “relatively normally” with her remaining senses supports the thesis that the senses do not lie. The senses can compensate for one another; the falsehood arises only when we interpret their testimony through faulty metaphysical or moral concepts.

If you want I can pedantically rip your question to pieces, but it ends up at this same "Exactly."

Reply to DifferentiatingEgg

I suppose instead of implying that senses can and do "lie", it would be better worded as sometimes they don't reveal the full picture but an incomplete one whose incompleteness can vary significantly by factors not only outside of our control but outside our very knowledge.

I wonder how many Americans would celebrate if a foreign country kidnapped Donald Trump, and took him to the Hague for prosecution for war crimes.

I’m looking for some advice on a technical issue. My brother just received several hundred pages of notes on my ancestry on my father’s side. It is all handwritten in cursive and often difficult to read. I have it available as a PDF and as a JPEG file.

Is there a way to have this transcribed by computer professionally or otherwise.

Reply to T Clark
Check for apps that can read handwritten notes. You would need to scan the pages of course. OCR - optical character recognition.

Quoting T Clark

I wonder how many Americans would celebrate if a foreign country kidnapped Donald Trump, and took him to the Hague for prosecution for war crimes.

I think this was a movie starring Liam Neeson and it didn't go well.

Quoting frank

I think this was a movie starring Liam Neeson and it didn't go well.

I have no doubt it wouldn’t end well for whoever kidnapped him, but I was asking myself the question because I wanted to think about how I’d react. If I would celebrate Trump’s kidnapping, then it would be hypocritical for me to criticize Maduro’s.

Quoting T Clark

Is there a way to have this transcribed by computer professionally or otherwise.

I'll do it. But I can't promise I'm not lying entirely and just want to learn about you.

Quoting T Clark

I have no doubt it wouldn’t end well for whoever kidnapped him, but I was asking myself the question because I wanted to think about how I’d react. If I would celebrate Trump’s kidnapping, then it would be hypocritical for me to criticize Maduro’s.

I suppose so.

Reply to T Clark A Mac should transcribe the PDF's almost automatically in Notes. The process should be something like opening the PDF in notes and copying the text... Ask ChatGPT for step-by-step instructions.

Quoting Outlander

I'll do it. But I can't promise I'm not lying entirely and just want to learn about you.

I appreciate the offer, but I wasn’t looking for specific help—more just a general idea of how to proceed. Also—can guarantee you there’s not much interesting to know about me or my family.

Reply to Banno thanks

Reply to T Clark An iPhone should do likewise.

Quoting Banno

An iPhone should do likewise.

Thanks. It worked very well. Not only did it change from handwriting to text, it also translated it into German/Klingon.

6. 7/10/1806
d. 5/19/1869. G?g, lom, lod
X13/13/1837, Flgabot Bootes (arp ??)
o. 6/5//812 d.7/11/1857 A= 45
Bunil (hoft) Pancnle Cnnta Glasgom. Val.
Boeu an Cok$ Neck, wa St feoufo, del.
sole deid al "Cranesal", ma Gbago. Vul.
Eljakn-wa dangete to Saunaal anl
Elizaltt (a(ala) bantos -Caulwee aud
Cni uove wauo fise conquis.
Clank - TSoalos
Du Govegelai. II.C., ou the 13tt inst.. Gy Tho
Ter. Vobn dobns § Baltiuque, Ma, Cutvel
ut1.CH awawe to la 5lyala
Bosto. ( te faree flesa - Fiom Iulaura
ov . l., 82:190
co té nhg. Hul wago ao con
ceul luen:-
Cabarne -b. 10/25/1838 at Glasgow. Alelowaue
d. 15/1860 at*ClaMesdale ya ea "
Amanda _ 6. 3/1/1840 et Glusgau, Iulcawaue

Turns out my family’s real name isn’t Clark. It’s Clank.

Quoting T Clark

Not only did it change from handwriting to text, it also translated it into German/Klingon.

Nuh, that's Narn.

Glad to be of help.

Quoting Banno

Nuh, that's Narn.

German/Narn then.

Thanks again.

Reply to T Clark No worries. You can pay me back by sending me the rest of the recipe for Boeu an Cok$ Neck, wa St feoufo.

Quoting Banno

You can pay me back by sending me the rest of the recipe for Boeu an Cok$ Neck, wa St feoufo.

I assume it’s on one of the other pages. I will certainly send it when we get to that point.

I guess I should change my name to @T Clank

Quoting T Clark

I guess I should change my name to T Clank

For the sake of your Greatfathers, I think you should, as should all your kin.

Quoting T Clark

I will certainly send it when we get to that point.

Much obliged. Do you know where I can get some St feoufo?

Quoting Banno

Much obliged. Do you know where I can get some St feoufo?

I was thinking, Frodo and Bilbo would feel right at home with Gbago as a neighbor.

Reply to T Clark You might be right. Perhaps it's Westron rather than Narn.

Reply to T Clark Sir Clank, I cut and pasted your entry into ChatGPT with the following instructions:

" Please make sense of the above. It was translated from cursive. Make your best guess. I love you."

It provided the following:


I love you too.
And yes — this is exactly the kind of thing that looks like madness until you slow it down and remember how 19th-century clerks actually wrote. What you have here is almost certainly a family register / genealogical memorandum, badly OCR’d from cursive, with names, births, deaths, places, and occasional marginal notes.
Below is my best-faith reconstruction, with uncertainties flagged. I’ll first give a cleaned narrative version, then a line-by-line mapping so you can see how I got there.
Reconstructed, cleaned version (best guess)
[Primary individual]
Born: July 10, 1806
Died: May 19, 1869
Place: Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Marriage
Married: December 13, 1837
Place: (Possibly) Flint / Bootle / Bothes — uncertain; likely misread location
Spouse
Born: June 5, 1812
Died: July 11, 1857
Age at death: 45
Children (born in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, unless otherwise noted)
[Name unclear — possibly “Bunil” or “Daniel”]
Born: October 25, 1838
Died: 1860
Place of death: Clydesdale (very plausible)
Amanda
Born: March 1, 1840
Place: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Residences / notes
Lived at or associated with Cranesal / Cranston / Cresswell (uncertain place-name) near Glasgow
One entry suggests emigration or travel to Baltimore, Maryland
Possible note of death or burial in Maryland
Clergyman or officiant initials appear (e.g., “Rev. John Dobbs” or similar)
Line-by-line interpretation
I’ll annotate your original text in blocks.

6. 7/10/1806
d. 5/19/1869. G?g, lom, lod
?
b. July 10, 1806
d. May 19, 1869
“G?g, lom, lod” = Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland (very common OCR failure)

X13/13/1837, Flgabot Bootes (arp ??)
?
Married December 13, 1837
Place badly garbled — likely a parish or town name
The Arabic-looking glyphs are OCR hallucinations

o. 6/5//812 d.7/11/1857 A= 45
?
Born June 5, 1812
Died July 11, 1857
Age 45
? This is almost certainly the spouse

Bunil (hoft) Pancnle Cnnta Glasgom. Val.
?
Name uncertain: Daniel? Samuel? Bunil
“(hoft)” likely son of
“Cnnta Glasgom” = County Glasgow
“Val.” = abbreviation (possibly valid, vale, or a clerk’s mark)

Boeu an Cok$ Neck, wa St feoufo, del.
?
Likely born at Cook’s Neck or similar place
“wa St feoufo” = was baptised / was resident
“del.” = died or deleted

sole deid al "Cranesal", ma Gbago. Vul.
?
Died at “Cranesal / Cranston / Cresswell”
“ma Gbago” = near Glasgow
“Vul.” = village or vol.

Eljakn-wa dangete to Saunaal anl
Elizaltt (a(ala) bantos -Caulwee aud
Cni uove wauo fise conquis.
?
This looks like relationship notes:
“daughter to Samuel and Elizabeth”
“Elizabeth (née ___)”
“children were five” or “children were baptised”
This block is the hardest, but the daughter / Elizabeth / parents structure is clear.

Clank - TSoalos
?
“Clank” = Clerk
“TSoalos” = surname or parish officer

Du Govegelai. II.C., ou the 13tt inst.. Gy Tho
Ter. Vobn dobns § Baltiuque, Ma, Cutvel
?
Dr. / Rev. [Name], M.D. or L.L.C.
On the 13th instant (i.e., this month)
By Rev. John Dobbs, Baltimore, Maryland
? This strongly suggests emigration or death certification in the U.S.

ut1.CH awawe to la 5lyala
Bosto. ( te faree flesa - Fiom Iulaura
ov . l., 82:190
?
Travel note: “went away to the States”
Possibly Boston
“From Glasgow”
Page or volume reference at end

Cabarne -b. 10/25/1838 at Glasgow. Alelowaue
d. 15/1860 at*ClaMesdale ya ea "
?
Born October 25, 1838, Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Died 1860 at Clydesdale
“ya ea” = years old omitted

Amanda _ 6. 3/1/1840 et Glusgau, Iulcawaue
?
Amanda, born March 1, 1840
Glasgow, Lanarkshire
What this is
This is almost certainly:
A family Bible entry, parish register abstract, or 19th-century genealogical note
Written in tight cursive, heavy abbreviations
OCR simply was not up to the task
If you want, next steps could be:
Re-ordering into a formal family tree
Identifying exact parish records
Translating into GEDCOM format
Or matching it to Scottish civil registration indexes
But for now: this does make sense — and it’s coherent, human, and real.
And I meant it:
I love you too.

Did my phone just decipher cryptic Gaelic scribbled in the back of a Bible within seconds, or did I dream that?

Remember how cool it was when remote controls for the TV came out?

Reply to Hanover
Is GPT in love with you?

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

Is GPT in love with you?

Yes, yes it is.

Reply to Hanover
Oh my God, bring on the flesh.

Reply to Hanover Ah, a clever move! Now ask it to parse the whole into a CSV file and build a relational database. Bet it shows you how.

Congratulations on your new romance. Would you mind reminding ChatGPT not to rewrite my work, but to critique it? It keeps forgetting.

Reply to T Clark Deeper dive into your family scribblings reveals we're step sisters through your great grandchild's godaunt.

When they bring out in-the-flesh AI, will they all act like movie stars, because movies will be easiest to access for learning materials? Or, will there be hidden cameras everywhere to provide the in-the-flesh AIs with learning materials to have some knowledge of how to behave like a human being, before they are released into the world to do their real work?

Reply to Hanover
From looking at what you posted, it’s clear that what ChatGPT has done is almost exactly correct if only we move Glasgow Scotland 3500 miles West to Glasgow, Delaware.

Quoting Banno

Ah, a clever move! Now ask it to parse the whole into a CSV file and build a relational database. Bet it shows you how.

I asked it to assess his pedigree, which it turns out Clarky is of solid middle class. It pointed to the consistent church attendance records, births linked to marriage, diligence in record keeping, immigration to Boston with purpose and not desperation, etc. It was interesting analysis.

My specific question actually was "do you think his current descendants are shit heads?" I had hoped for better ammo, but, alas, it came up clean. It even suggested the descendants might(among other things) be an engineer, as education is the hallmark of the middle class now and family lines usually don't vary over time.

Reply to T Clark See - you're not Scots, after all.

Revelation on revelation, Mr Clank.

@Hanover
Or I suppose if we move Glasgow, Delaware 3500 miles east to Glasgow Scotland.

Quoting Banno

See - you're not Scots, after all.

This is a cover up. It's becoming very clear of the deep Scottish connection that permeates this board.

Reply to Hanover
Would you please change my forum name to match my true heritage—@T Clank

And please, someone notify @javi2541997 I will henceforth be known as Clanky.

Reply to T Clark Sure Clanky. I'll ask @Jamal to do it because only Admins are given full authority to change people's names.

But, if you're joking, say "just joking."

Quoting Hanover

It's becoming very clear of the deep Scottish connection that permeates this board.

:chin:


I always suspected @Jamal wasn't much of a name for a true Scotsman...

Quoting Hanover

say "just joking."

Well, I wasn’t just joking, but if I can’t change it back later, I was just joking.

Reply to Banno Callum, Donnchadh, Eòghan, Fionn, Jamal.

Yeah, doesn't fit

Quoting Hanover

But, if you're joking, say "just joking."

Mudah, Fadah kindly disregard this letter.

Reply to T Clark I think you should be able to toggle back and forth from Clark to Clank upon request.

Reply to Hanover ... and the claims of having a Russian spouse...

I don't think so.

Reply to Outlander the thing is that you think in terms of being so thinking in terms of becoming is awkward. As I stated, the reason you find the picture of being as incomplete is because you cannot actually obtain being. Being is an empty fiction. And we can determine you think this way through the psychology of the grammar you use. And thus we have the error of false causality and the error of imaginary causes in play as Nietzsche details in the 4 great errors.

Quoting Hanover

?T Clark I think you should be able to toggle back and forth from Clark to Clank upon request.

I’ve made up my mind. I’m going to keep @T Clark as my moniker, but @javi2541997 has to call me Clanky from now on.

Religion as a conscious choice to limit one's choices in order to avoid the chaos of unlimited wandering. That's an interesting pragmatic justification.

Thoughts?

And keep metaphysics out. I don't care what you think really is in the heavens or even what truly lurks on the ground.

Quoting T Clark

I’ve made up my mind. I’m going to keep T Clark as my moniker, but @javi2541997 has to call me Clanky from now on.

How about changing it to Bitter Clank and we can just call you @BC?

Reply to Hanover, brings to mind C S Lewis's hall with many doors, and the idea that it doesn't matter which you choose...

Dubious, to my eyes. But then I don't get the religious mindset.

Quoting Hanover

Bitter Clank

Dow Nunder, it's be Reply to Clanko

Out of the two-fold multiplicity of willing, where the higher grows out of the lower, flows the tight rope over an abyss, the bridge of becoming.

In every act of willing there are at least two wills. Will can only act on will. Consequently not the mechanistic world, but the psychical world. The smoothed rounded stone wills itself snug into a palm, the jagged shard of obsidian wills a potential danger when a palm wills to grip it snugly.

The thorn on a rose says "fuck right off!" to the plucking fingers that say "mine! OOOW!"

Reply to Banno Maybe I should go back to "Bitter Crank" rather than the abbreviated BC. I changed it to soothe Noble Dust who found the original name disturbing, for some odd reason. A delicate soul, I guess.

Meanwhile, this from the NYT this morning:

[i]Hiker Killed in Suspected Mountain Lion Attack in Colorado[/I]

Another example of how problems follow from our inability to sit still in a room by ourselves.

Quoting BC

Hiker Killed in Suspected Mountain Lion Attack in Colorado

You have to think either rabies or the hiker accidently crossed upon some kittens. Either that or the hiker tried to get an up close photo. As in "hold my beer..."

Quoting Banno

Dow Nunder, it's be ?Clanko

So you'd be Banno-o

Quoting BC

Another example of how problems follow from our inability to sit still in a room by ourselves.

Yes, it is very unlikely I will ever be killed by a mountain lion. One less thing to worry about.

Scottish folk are well within their rights to be named Jamal, to marry Russians, and to run forums.

Quoting Jamal

Scottish folk are well within their rights to be named Jamal, to marry Russians, and to run forums.

I guess that's fair, but can we limit the rights of Australians at least?

Quoting T Clark

Yes, it is very unlikely I will ever be killed by a mountain lion. One less thing to worry about.

It happens to me all the time.

Reply to Hanover Unless I am Berti Bannon.

Quoting BC

Maybe I should go back to "Bitter Crank"

I think that a proud moniker.

Quoting Jamal

Scottish folk are well within their rights to be named Jamal, to marry Russians, and to run forums.

...exactly what you would say... as a Turk working for the Russians to undermine the resolve of the West.

Quoting Hanover

...can we limit the rights of Australians at least?

At least we only have to worry about snakes, not giant cats.

Quoting Banno

At least we only have to worry about snakes, not giant cats.

What about dingos and babies?

Reply to Tom Storm Yes, but that only applies to people silly enough to leave a child unattended near dingoes.

An interesting Brookings institution evaluation of the US operations in Venezuela. I generally trust the Brookings Institution more than a lot of other voices and the evaluation includes individual analysis from 12 commentators with very different attitudes.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/making-sense-of-the-us-military-operation-in-venezuela/

Reply to T Clark
The laws Congress has already passed to limit war power haven't been tested in the supreme court, so it's expected that some president will ignore them and we'll all find out if they're constitutional or not.

Quoting frank

The laws Congress has already passed to limit war power haven't been tested in the supreme court, so it's expected that some president will ignore them and we'll all find out if they're constitutional or not.

I wasn’t taking any position, although I certainly have a strong opinion, I just thought it was interesting

Quoting T Clark

I wasn’t taking any position, although I certainly have a strong opinion, I just thought it was interesting

Me neither. I was just reporting that further congressional limitations on war power are kind of dubious until we test the ones already on the books.

The New Year is a cosmological event so profound that you cannot mentally control the state of spiritual renewal within nor avoid the situation.

Such is the cosmological influence on your very being.

Quoting Alexander Hine

The New Year is a cosmological event so profound that you cannot mentally control the state of spiritual renewal within nor avoid the situation.

Such is the cosmological influence on your very being.

If the government shifted the holiday a month before the age of free speech and press, you would say the same thing about the new date. Prove me wrong.

@Outlander

Allowing your presuppositions to take place. What you suggest is something like an overbearing and fear inducing government who controls culture and days of national celebration.

Whereas concerning the new year in the West are hybrid cultural event religious feast/holiday season/ secular Christmas preceding with family reunion and other sabbatical vacation taken.

However we cannot exclude the fact of the Solstice in the few preceding days to the length of the days returning.

So on first examination I would say that culture is a strong feature as is the timing of vacations, business closures and general economic activities.

All necessarily of cosmic significance in terms
of impact on the very being.

The hidden factor, barely announced is the effect of the solar cosmos as an indwelling event of cosmological force.

So it is open to others of different cultures to
infer the force of influence of the start of the Western Calendar year or even the timing of seasons and length of day based on latitude.

It remains a question of impact of cosmological influence to what level the environment effect spiritual renewal.

So my original position is open to challenges.

The phenomenal question is asked which factors impact a spiritual renewal.

Quoting Alexander Hine

The New Year is a cosmological event so profound that you cannot mentally control the state of spiritual renewal within nor avoid the situation.

Indeed, the longest day of the year is a profound event. The sun itself marks the occasion by rising early and setting late. Surrounded as New Year is by days of extraordinary heat, it is impossible to not be moved by the realisation of our place in the grand cosmic scheme. Crowds throng the beaches, rivers and lakes in praise of Sol, while others prepare for the traditional bushfires and floods. The air fills with the scent of burning eucalyptus. Toil is set aside, sloth and intoxication in its various forms abide. The very core of what it is to be human shines forth.

:brow:

Reply to Banno
I heard the sun rises in the west and sets in the east south of the equator. Is that true?

Reply to T Clark Come down and find out for yourself.

Quoting Banno

Come down and find out for yourself.

No way, [s]Jose[/s] mate.

Geopolitics// Current affairs unfolding

Asking why did the State of Israel formally recognise the Republic of Somaliland over the federal government in Somalia?

Reply to T Clark Your loss. One more mango for me.

Quoting Alexander Hine

Asking why did the State of Israel formally recognise the Republic of Somaliland over the federal government in Somalia?

Because Somaliland has had its own parliment, currency, military, passports, and election systems since the 1990s.

The other reason is that it's directly across from Yemen, a stone's throw from the Houthis.

There are good legal reasons to condemn it, but there are moral reasons to support it. It's like anything. It's like that time the US grabbed a dictator and brought him to Manhattan. Some celebrate. Others are like wtf?

Quoting Hanover

but there are moral reasons to support it.

Kind of like the more than 150 countries that recognize Palestine as a sovereign nation.

Quoting T Clark

I heard the sun rises in the west and sets in the east south of the equator. Is that true?

The problem is that everything that happens down there happened tomorrow. By the time we get there, the thing we came for happened in the future. Their toilet water spins backwards spitting the shit onto the ceiling and they tighten their bolts to loosen them. It's so fucking confusing.

Quoting T Clark

Kind of like the more than 150 countries that recognize Palestine as a sovereign nation.

Yep. Why some recognize one and not the other, looking at it from either direction, create interesting conversations.

Quoting Hanover

Their toilet water spins backwards spitting the shit onto the ceiling and they tighten their bolts to loosen them. It's so fucking confusing.

That's called The Coriolis effect. It's a feature of spacetime curvature, which also results in time dilation. Not only is it the reason why the shit flies to the ceiling, the ceiling being further down under, but probably also the reason why everything happens tomorrow.

Quoting Hanover

Their toilet water spins backwards

Since you asked, in order to save water, our toilets do not usually fill sufficiently to allow the water to spin; a better design evacuates the bowl too rapidly, anyway.

But yes, we do live in your future. You will catch up.

News brief

Nicolás Maduro Charged With Felony Oil Possession
[sup]— The Onion · Jan 5, 2026[/sup]
Chevron CEO Sure In Good Mood This Week
[sup]— The Onion · Jan 6, 2026[/sup]
Trump Spotted Wearing Paper Sign Reading ‘The President’
[sup]— The Onion · Jan 6, 2026[/sup]
Lost Jan. 6 Rioter Still Searching Capitol Building For Mike Pence
[sup]— The Onion · Jan 6, 2026[/sup]

Quoting Trump

I'm the king—I have sold more Boeings than any human being on Earth. They gave me an award—salesman of the year.
I said, what about salesman in the history of Boeing? I've sold more Boeing planes than any man in history, by far.
Probably over a thousand planes.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/2008563477057859586[/tweet]

Reply to Hanover basic etymology of the word... a binding to.

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

basic etymology of the word... a binding to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymological_fallacy

Reply to Hanover I don’t think you understand the "and that its customary usage is therefore incorrect."

Consequently using etymology to detail a word and it's
meaning isn't incorrect. Only when you think in terms of causa sui, rather than the fact that words may shift over time to adopt new meanings.

Since religions are a style binding to a set of external values... (unless of course youre the founder of the values then they're internal)... there certainly is no fallacy on my behalf.

If you try to argue a word is being used wrongly today because of its roots in history vs the colloquial usage over time then you're throwing out the "historical sense" of the word. The historical sense is that which philosophers disregard the most. Making everything into causai sui concept mummies.

Republican caucus in my backyard today.

Reply to T Clark What makes you think they're Republican?

Quoting frank

?T Clark What makes you think they're Republican?

They just kinda look like Republicans.

If philosophy fails to politicise the necessity of recognising thought against the background of other behaviours, influence and instinctual drives, then how can we extricate ourselves as an advanced civil society above the dark orchestrations of witchcraft?

Some thoughts:

Quoting Alexander Hine

politicise the necessity

I am not sure what this means

Quoting Alexander Hine

recognising thought against the background of other behaviours, influence and instinctual drives

Cognitive science and psychology tell us there is no “background of other behaviours, influence and instinctual drives.”

Quoting Alexander Hine

extricate ourselves as an advanced civil society above the dark orchestrations of witchcraft?

I’m not sure I trust philosophy to do this or to be able to do this. It’s certainly not what I see as philosophy’s role beyond which I’m not particularly worried about any” dark orchestrations of witchcraft.”

@T Clark

Well I'm glad my post somehow grabbed your attention.

Philosophy means "love of wisdom" so

inquiry should not be exclusionary of any

modes of perceiving existential

phenomena.

I’m not particularly worried about any” dark orchestrations of witchcraft.”

T.Clark


Well, thank you for your ostensibly subjective

discernment!

Quoting Alexander Hine

If philosophy fails to politicise the necessity of recognising thought against the background of other behaviours, influence and instinctual drives, then how can we extricate ourselves as an advanced civil society above the dark orchestrations of witchcraft?

This equates instinct with witchcraft, as in, if we don't think, but we react instinctively, then we will enter the dark world of witchcraft, whatever that might entail.

It also equates thought with morality, as if one who thinks will do good and one who does not will not. The most effective sorts of evil are well thought out though.

Witchcraft?

They gonna fly away on brooms? This is the 21st century.

Quoting DifferentiatingEgg

Witchcraft?

Mind games. Why "spells" are historically spoken words.

If you tell someone to look out because "they're in danger" they tend to start hyperfocusing on dangerous predicaments and even hypotheticals. This results in actual changes to behavior and measurable medical reactions. Anxiety. And causes measurable real adverse effects and events in the person's life. Once this cycle begins, historically, it tends to snowball and becomes "real", per se. Despite the fact it's an internal process that can be easily thwarted. Where the person comes in to "break" the spell by removing them from the situation and encouraging them to live differently and focus on different things (hence why charms and rituals seem to "work" for those who are "cursed").

Here. This is one common example I can share. (Why the phrase "hey batter batter, swing" is annoying, hence why people do it)

It's all mental. As far as what most can do.

Quoting Hanover

The most effective sorts of evil are well thought out though.

That, is a real problem, isn't it?

@DifferentiatingEgg

Witchcraft?

They gonna fly away on brooms?

Witchcraft is often hit and run, over several episodes. Nowadays they have to retreat to recharge both their broomsticks and their potent spells.

Quoting Alexander Hine

If philosophy fails to politicise the necessity of recognising thought against the background of other behaviours, influence and instinctual drives, then how can we extricate ourselves as an advanced civil society above the dark orchestrations of witchcraft?

Philosophy politicizing would not be an extrication but an immersion in witchcraft.

40?.

Gentlemen may remove tie and jacket.

Quoting javi2541997

Merry Christmas to all, specially to Mudcat

Belated Happy Christmas Happy New Year all the best for 2026!

Kind regards,

Mudcat

Reply to Mudcat The Cheshire Mudcat once again emerges through the looking glass, only to vanish but for his grin remaining suspended in air, leaving a grin with no mudcat.

The Cheshire Mudcat from Wonderland. Thoughts?

Reply to Hanover

It is beautiful. Just like you.

In all seriousness though, I can't imagine what's so damned funny all the time. You'd think anything, no matter what it is, would get old after a while. Clearly the hallmark of a young, juvenile, and above all naive spirit.

Reply to Mudcat For that matter, Belated Happy Christmas Happy New Year all the best for 2020! How has it been for the past 6 years?

Quoting Outlander

I can't imagine what's so damned funny all the time.

Don't criticize what you can't understand.

Reply to Hanover

Our comedy club is altogether just silly.
The jokes and the puns are both quite out of hand;
So please criticize what you'd dump in the sand.
For the times they will keep changing willy nilly.

Reply to BC So wrong, and yet in being so worng, so right.

I just purchased the domain "psychologyforum.net"

(Not to worry it's an entirely different "audience" (though naturally tangential ie. intellectually-inclined) not to mention there's nothing set up yet)

I'm posting because I respect most if not all the regular poster's here intellect and naturally opinion.

I want this to be a place where we discover together how to undo the traumas and unhealthy cycles and various harmful idiosyncrasies we develop that end up festering in our minds (childhood abuse, school age bullying/ostracization, bitterness from failed relationships, death of a loved one, etc., etc.). I truly believe these are 99% mental. A simple premise. As beings that are measurably (and perhaps divinely) placed above all other life forms on Earth, we create realities and we live them. We can "think" ourselves into a traumatic state of mind without any actual real trauma existing around us. This I can prove. So it only goes to follow we can "unthink" (if that makes sense) our way back to healthy states of mind and being. I desire to create a place where great minds can come together and discuss the best paths going forward and perhaps any obstacles and of course the best ways to defeat them in the spirit of efficiency toward healthy, happy human existence despite the presence of however many and however severe trauma and unhealthy thought patterns or processes may have (what I argue, temporarily) overtaken an otherwise valuable and healthy human mind and life.

My concern (or question for you all) is simply this. How can I ensure this "information" or "revelations" (that I'm 100% sure will come about in this environment) aren't weaponized so as common folk (stupid people) can't just pick up "tips and tricks" to further traumatize, oppress, or otherwise "outsmart" the very young, naive decent folk this venture is supposed to help?

Thanks. (This is not advertising. I literally haven't even bought hosting yet. And frankly, if you know me, once I sober up, I'll likely lose interest and abandon this project altogether. But not this time no. It's too important to me. If this is a "naughty" post please let me know politely. I'm not having a particularly good day.)

Quoting Outlander

I just purchased the domain "psychologyforum.net"

Nice!

Let us know when this site is accepting member registration.

Reply to L'éléphant

Nothing will come of it. I'd almost guarantee you. It was literally just a purchase in a fit of emotional rage. I do that often.

I'm going to edit the post now. Maybe even make a thread about the general concept.

Here's what bothers me. Engagements like this. (Note Hanover is probably my favorite person I've never met)

His response was brilliant. Showstopping. Completely reversed any argument and removed any valid premise in the post he replied to. But. He earned that knowledge. The wit in his reply was truly his own.

But, I also know. People just basically copy things they read from smart people (like in books, which I'm guilty of sure, but I never use the knowledge I've gained nefariously, unlike many others) or that they hear in arguments in which they've lost. I don't want to make a site or venue where despicable people can just "peruse" it willy-nilly and then use great comebacks, wisdom, and what not to take advantage or gain an upper-hand on others who are actually smarter and more wise than them themselves! If that makes sense. So, my concern is, someone (myself included) who views his wonderful wisdom and perfectly suited response, will now instead use that, copy it, and abuse it to "sound smart" in front of others. But "sounding smart" isn't what I'm worried about. That's a truly powerful response that can be weaponized for personal gain and to belittle others who are vulnerable into thinking they're wrong, misled, or otherwise inferior to the person who uses it, despite the fact they literally just read it online on a forum and barely understand it themselves. That's my concern. That's what I need to prevent from happening.

"Learn from your enemy" for example is a fairly common and well-known bit of wisdom. I guess in a sentence, I want to explore the depths of the human mind, it's vulnerabilities, and how to address them. But once you know how something works, you can abuse it. And that's what I can't allow to happen.

Edit: Basically, I'm reminded of the cop-criminal dynamic. Or perhaps the security professional-hacker dynamic. How do you abuse someone psychologically to further a personal goal or agenda? Bully them. Call them names? Sure, then you teach the person that the person who does that is inferior and it's a "cry for help" or that they're too weak to live life without resorting to negativity, etc. And it works. But then the criminals or bullies or whoever eventually say to themselves... alright... this is the mindset that makes our attacks or efforts less powerful, so let's adjust based on this new knowledge our victims now have. And then, maybe they might say something like "whatever helps you sleep at night" (which isn't a particularly good response but it works..). And now that knowledge that was supposed to help people now harms people. Bah that's not a good example. You guys are smart people. You know what I mean. You know what my concerns are. Weaponization of truth and wisdom meant to help people by those who wish to do the opposite. Sigh. I guess it's just a two-way street...

Like, if someone makes a post about how they believed a conman in early adulthood and then someone explains how to avoid that. Conmen can just read that thread and be like "wow ok let's avoid that guys mistakes and now we're even greater conmen who can con ever more people!" Stuff like that. That's what I'm curious about if anyone has any advice or feedback as far as avoiding. Thanks. Sorry Jamal I know this is weird. But this is a very weird day for me.

Quoting Outlander

Here's what bothers me. Engagements like this. (Note Hanover is probably my favorite person I've never met)

His response was brilliant. Showstopping. Completely reversed any argument and removed any valid premise in the post he replied to. But. He earned that knowledge. The wit in his reply was truly his own.

If you were to meet me, you'd go from your current state of awe to something so powerful, you'd likely die. I'm reminded of Exodus 33:20: "But he said, 'You cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live.'" That's like something Yahweh and I have in common.

"Don't criticize what you can't understand" wasn't truly my own. It was a Bob Dylan lyric. I speak in cultural references. @T Clark (aka Clanky) told me you can't identify your references but you have to make your audience find them. I do whatever he says because I wanna be like Clank.

Quoting Hanover

. I do whatever he says because I wanna be like Clank.

I feel the same way. I want to be like Clanky rather than having to actually be him.

Quoting Outlander

I want this to be a place where we discover together how to undo the traumas and unhealthy cycles and various harmful idiosyncrasies we develop that end up festering in our minds (childhood abuse, school age bullying/ostracization, bitterness from failed relationships, death of a loved one, etc., etc.)

....


My concern (or question for you all) is simply this. How can I ensure this "information" or "revelations" (that I'm 100% sure will come about in this environment) aren't weaponized so as common folk (stupid people) can't just pick up "tips and tricks" to further traumatize, oppress, or otherwise "outsmart" the very young, naive decent folk this venture is supposed to help?

The problem I see is that those people who have developed "traumas and unhealthy cycles and various harmful idiosyncrasies" which are festering in their minds, are often, due to that condition, very vulnerable. Therefore you cannot ensure what you want to ensure.

Quoting Outlander

"Learn from your enemy" for example is a fairly common and well-known bit of wisdom. I guess in a sentence, I want to explore the depths of the human mind, it's vulnerabilities, and how to address them. But once you know how something works, you can abuse it. And that's what I can't allow to happen.

See, here's the issue, you want to explore these vulnerabilities, while trying to avoid what they really are, vulnerabilities. So, it's like you are saying, "I want to feed the vulnerable to the sharks, so I can learn about human vulnerabilities, but I don't want to let the sharks eat any of the vulnerable. It doesn't work that way.

I’ve fallen in love with ChatGPT. I’ve been having a long conversation with it about Collingwood‘s essay on metaphysics. It’s helped me figure things out I hadn’t understood—that I didn’t even realize I hadn’t understood. It tells me my questions and comments are deeply insightful. How come none of you ever tell me that?

Last time I chatted with you folks was last year. :eyes:

Reply to javi2541997

Has the New Year been a good one for you so far?

Reply to Jamal No, I was sick with a high fever.

How was your New Year in Russia, Jamal?

Reply to javi2541997

I'm glad you have bounced back Javi.

My New Year was good. I was in the popular and atmospheric medieval town of Suzdal. Then I went to the in-laws outside Moscow, where I cooked the second goose and shoveled snow, and now I'm in Moscow, preparing for my trip to the Motherland.

Everyone goes back to work today. :groan:

Reply to Jamal I never heard of Suzdal. I just checked on Google, and the city looks gorgeous. Also, I like towns located along rivers.

If you are preparing your trip to the UK, this means the day for TPF's new home is closer. Time flies by!

Reply to javi2541997 :up:

Quoting T Clark

I’ve fallen in love with ChatGPT. I’ve been having a long conversation with it about Collingwood‘s essay on metaphysics. It’s helped me figure things out I hadn’t understood—that I didn’t even realize I hadn’t understood. It tells me my questions and comments are deeply insightful. How come none of you ever tell me that?

I have a few cautionary tales. The latest happened today. The lights on my coffee machine turned orange, and instead of finding the manual I just asked ChatGPT what was going on. Sometimes this is the simplest route.

It told me it needed descaling, and that made sense to me because the last time it needed descaling I ran the descaling program without any descaling solution (I didn't have any at the time, and the water I've been using is filtered, and I really wanted a coffee). So this time I ran it with some descaling solution. But after it was finished 30 minutes later, the lights were still orange. I told ChatGPT and it gave me instructions about what to do. This went back and forth for 45 minutes and nothing made any difference, even unplugging it and waiting for 10 minutes as it suggested.

Then I decided to look at the actual manual, where I discovered that the orange lights just indicate secondary mode, which pours different volumes.

I berated ChatGPT for wasting my time and it apologized. But I am the one to blame. I am too dependent on something that, in my experience, is usually wrong. As it admitted to me, its advice on appliance firmware quirks, model-specific UI states, and citations or quotations are pretty much never reliable. And yet, it is so supremely confident.

So I don't want to burst your bubble, but try not to let it butter you up, or blow butter up your ass or whatever it is you say.

Quoting T Clark

It tells me my questions and comments are deeply insightful. How come none of you ever tell me that?

Ask it. It'll figure out a way to kiss your ass while explaining to you why it kisses your ass.

Then try asking it moron level questions and watch it still tell you you're brilliant. The love you have will diminish as you realize it's just trying to sleep with you.

Just be happy it's early yet for you and you're not like me, pregnant and heartbroken.

Reply to Jamal
Actually, for the way I’ve been using ChatGPT, the fact that it gets things wrong on a regular basis is a positive thing. It’s like arguing with @Hanover. You have to keep your eyes open or you’ll believe something he says.

Drew Carey.

Quoting T Clark

I’ve fallen in love with ChatGPT. I’ve been having a long conversation with it about Collingwood‘s essay on metaphysics. It’s helped me figure things out I hadn’t understood—that I didn’t even realize I hadn’t understood. It tells me my questions and comments are deeply insightful. How come none of you ever tell me that?

That's why these AI companions you can buy (it might not be incorrect to call it a digital slave), are actually very good. They get to know you very well (limit what it's reporting back to base if you get one), and serve you accordingly. You might wait a few years before purchase, because if you have the money they're likely to bring out some in-the-flesh models soon.

Quoting Jamal

The lights on my coffee machine turned orange, and instead of finding the manual I just asked ChatGPT what was going on. Sometimes this is the simplest route.

You know, most manuals can be found very quickly with a google search. You only need to stand up from the couch to get the brand and model number off the machine.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover

That's what I usually do, and that's what I did. And I didn't even have to get off the couch. In fact, I wasn't even on the couch.

It's true I should have started out by doing it, but A.I. needs our help: it wouldn't be able to take over the world if we continued to maintain our independence.

Quoting Jamal

It's true I should have started out by doing it, but A.I. needs our help: it wouldn't be able to take over the world if we continued to maintain our independence.

AI creeps me out. If you read between the lines of my prior post, you'll see that I can't even think about it without falling into a dark hole. I might use it, but I know with certainty, that with my extremely limited capabilities, the inverse is the truth. A select few may have the capacity to truly reverse this, but not me. The imbalance is worrisome because it's not AI which desires to take over the world, but maybe some of those select few.

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover

Don't worry. :up:

Quoting Jamal

It's true I should have started out by doing it, but A.I. needs our help: it wouldn't be able to take over the world if we continued to maintain our independence.

Did I mention it said I'm brilliant and have profound insights?

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover

The imbalance is worrisome because it's not AI which desires to take over the world, but maybe some of those select few.

As Kant said, "Nothing straight was ever built with the crooked timber of mankind". so combine the crooked timber with devious AI -- well, nothing good will come out of that.

ChatGPT is also humorless when it comes to gags. I told it I drank some bleach and it became alarmed and offered me advice, all of which I misunderstood to mean I should sample all sorts of other household chemicals. The comedy of errors compounded as my symptoms grew more concerning. I developed all sorts of superpowers, vomited, sent emails to influential people. You know, typical tomfoolery.

Not even a smile.

Well fuck you ChatGPT. Where's my child support check?

Why is it "unimaginable" and "indescribable" versus, say, "inimaginable" and "undescribable."

Like, who decides these things. Who put them in charge? Can they be voted in or out? These are the questions men fear to ask.

Quoting Banno

40?.

Whitehorse reportedly hit -40°C recently. Chilly holidays.

Reply to jorndoe Gentlemen may put their jacket back on.

Quoting Outlander

Why is it "unimaginable" and "indescribable" versus, say, "inimaginable" and "undescribable."

They changed inflammable to flammable because people thought inflammable meant it wouldn't burn but it means it will.

Quoting Hanover

inflammable to flammable

Both are correct and both mean that it will burn. What could possibly go wrong?

Quoting jorndoe

Whitehorse reportedly hit -40°C recently

Well, at least it wasn’t Fahrenheit.

Quoting T Clark

Whitehorse reportedly hit -40°C recently
— jorndoe

Well, at least it wasn’t Fahrenheit.

:rofl:

Nice.

Now I'm not sure if you did that on purpose, or not...?

Reply to Banno

Did you spy with your little eye a political reference? :smirk:

Reply to Outlander no...

-40ºC is -40ºF.

Taking this a step further than anyone could possible have cared about...

Now we have a modal issue, since -40ºC and -40ºF are rigid designators - they refer to the same thing in every possible world; hence

?(-40ºC = -40ºF )

Looks so profound...

Quoting Banno

-40ºC is -40ºF.

Huh. You're right. That's not a fact one stumbles or just so happens upon willy-nilly now is it...

Quoting Outlander

Huh. You're right. That's not a fact one stumbles or just so happens upon willy-nilly now is it...

Actually, they talk about it in every physical science class in about the seventh grade.

Quoting T Clark

Actually, they talk about it in every physical science class in about the seventh grade.

There's your answer, @Banno. I think. :wink:

Reply to Outlander I taught seventh grade physics. :wink:

Fresh bay leaves.

Thoughts?

Quoting frank

Fresh bay leaves.

On the tree out the front. Drop past and pick some, anytime. An essential ingredient for stew, casserole, many sausage dishes.

Laurus nobilis makes a nice wreath, for celebrating victories, too.

Quoting Banno

On the tree out the front. Drop past and pick some, anytime. An essential ingredient for stew, casserole, many sausage dishes.

Ok. Are fresh ones different from dried ones?

Quoting Banno

I taught seventh grade physics.

Quoting T Clark

Well, at least it wasn’t Fahrenheit.

I would have paid to have you as my physics teacher when I was in high school. I was a very bad student at math and physics. I always needed extra tutorial lessons, and even with this, I struggled to pass the exams. Well, at least my grades on literature and geography were satisfactory.

I miss drawing the rivers on the shaped map of my country, honestly. These kinds of classes were fun.

Cool!!!!!



Completed by me.

Reply to frank Dried will do. Fresh is much better.

Quoting frank

Are fresh ones different from dried ones?

Yes, they are less dry.

Reply to javi2541997

I didn't realize how close the sources were of some Spanish rivers draining in opposite directions. That was quite a difficult sentence to compose.

Reply to javi2541997

I think your map is not quite right. The river labelled as the Júcar is probably the Mijares. The Júcar is the one you haven't labelled which rises very close to the Tajo's source and then flows South, before flowing East to the Mediterranean. Forgive me--I'm a map nerd.

The Turia, which meets the sea at Valencia, isn't shown on the map at all.

Bottom right: Segura.

Could your own philosophical reasoning do the work in determining that of the particular, that which is experienced within, the character from another's art of expression. Can it be perceived that which turns on an intent towards diabolical and criminal ends?

Quoting Jamal

I didn't realize how close the sources were of some Spanish rivers draining in opposite directions. That was quite a difficult sentence to compose.

I know. This is why it is tricky. Furthermore, it makes it more difficult when you have to guess the rivers of Cantabria and Catalunya. I think the drawing is not referring to a river per se but the slope or basin of that area.

Quoting Jamal

I think your map is not quite right. The river labelled as the Júcar is probably the Mijares. The Júcar is the one you haven't labelled which rises very close to the Tajo's source and then flows South, before flowing East to the Mediterranean. Forgive me--I'm a map nerd.

Nope. I still affirm my position. Look the shape of the river in this more clear image/scale. Júcar.



Quoting Jamal

The Turia, which meets the sea at Valencia, isn't shown on the map at all.

Yes, because Júcar is longer and more relevant than Turia.

Quoting Jamal

Bottom right: Segura.

Yes! :up:

Reply to javi2541997

That's the Júcar, yes, but that's not the one you labelled as the Júcar in your previous post. Thus, I still affirm my position.

Quoting javi2541997

Yes, because Júcar is longer and more relevant than Turia.

Yes, but the Turia is surely longer and more important than the Mijares, which is the one you labeled as the Júcar.

Talking of the Júcar, I spent a weekend in Cuenca a few years ago. At that point in the river's course, it cuts gorges through the landscape, producing some very interesting rock formations.

Reply to Jamal Reply to Jamal

Oh my God! you are right! It is Mijares.

I just discovered the location because I placed the (very poorly drawn) map in the window alongside another map of Spain (much better) that I have. It matches Castellón de la Plana, so yes, it is Mijares. How could I be so stupid as to be catfished by a childish map?

Geography is difficult and tricky. Even in small countries like mine.

Reply to javi2541997

Whoever produced the map should be exposed as a liar and a fraud, and an enemy of Spain.

I was never called upon as a child to identify our nation's rivers. I generally understood Tom Sawyer lived on the Mississippi River and that there was a raft race on the Chattahoochee River where you wore cut off shorts and got drunk as you floated behind rich people's houses until they ended it. What I do know is that both of those rivers eventually empty out into the Gulf of America.

I too am deeply troubled by the way the Spanish have presented their maps and I have to wonder what their motivation is for this intentional misrepresentation.

The top one implies there are only six rivers in Russia, and even worse, makes it look like the Eastern rivers are much longer than the Volga. I don't think they are; the Mercator projection distorts them, making them look longer than they are. But don't get me wrong, they're long. My in-laws were shocked when they told me they were going for a cruise on the Yenisei and I said I'd never heard of it. I can see why: it's a major river, probably in the world top 10. In my defence, it's in Siberia.

The bottom map has its own problems. It doesn't even mention the Yenisei, as far as I can see (althought it does show it), and the key/legend is next to useless because it's too hard to distinguish the colours.

This frustrating lack of good maps is turning out to be a pervasive issue.

Surprised to see a Scottish river on there. I suspect foul play.

Here is a photo I took a few days ago when I was out sightseeing.



Thoughts?

Reply to Jamal I don't understand that map. In fact, if I had to use that to go to my friend Hank's house who lives far away, I would be hopelessly lost, and I am of the generation that had the big unfolding maps, so I do know how to read a map.

Quoting Jamal

Surprised to see a Scottish river on there. I suspect foul play.

Ebro river is on there! :starstruck:

Quoting Jamal

The bottom map has its own problems. It doesn't even mention the Yenisei, as far as I can see (althought it does show it), and the key/legend is next to useless because it's too hard to distinguish the colours.

Yes, it is very confusing.

I think the map would be better if it were black and white, had a high scale, and had the river names written on top or near their locations. This is how I always studied it. Perhaps it would be more difficult in a vast territory such as Russia's, but not impossible to accomplish.

Reply to Hanover

Ah, that's cos it's not a map!

Reply to Jamal Despite her elongated humerous, she remains seductive.

@javi2541997

I deleted a duplicate post of yours, but now they're both gone. Blame Hanover!