Reply to javi2541997 The Last Roundup was hell on earth. All those undocumented holstein and guernsey cows hiding out in garages, apartments, store rooms, and basements were rousted out and put on buses and taken to the Wipple Building at Fort Snelling. (It was hard for the cows to get comfortable on bus seats. Gary Larson, we need a cartoon for this.) Naturally ICE had NOT laid in a supply of alfalfa and corn for the poor beasts, and the urban cowboys had no idea how to milk a cow, or for that matter, that they even HAD to be milked. Oh the inhumanity!!!
Once the manure started stinking up the building (even though cow shit smells much better than human crap) they decided to just release the ones that hadn't already been flown down to El Salvador. So now Minnehaha Park has a herd of hungry holsteins begging from sight seers looking at the frozen falls.
I had to put water on my Raisin Bran flakes this morning. Fortunately for us, other states produce ice cream, and Wisconsin -- the Dairy State -- is right next door. But it takes time to set up delivery systems to new markets, and that hasn't happened yet.
NOW VERY SERIOUSLY
The ICE operations have had a very negative effect on the quality of life for a lot of people, not just undocumented immigrants. Lake Street, which is a central artery through Minneapolis, has suffered an economic bomb. It was ripped up pretty badly in the George Floyd riots in 2020, then Covid, but was beginning to recover. Many Hispanic and Somali businesses have closed, or if open, are guarded behind locked front doors. The hospitality business all over the metro area has been harmed quite badly, because the role immigrants play as service workers.
Deporting illegal immigrants is actually a routine operation of long standing, but ICE has conducted this operation like "a bull in a china shop" and things have broken, people have been killed. There are, apparently, a small number of undocumented Somalis here, but most of them -- as they say -- arrived on Delta Airlines--legally. Some of them are now third generation. None he less, Somalis have come in for harassment.
The largest share of the undocumented are from south of the Rio Grande, of course, but there are also a smattering of undocumented people from West Africa, Burma, China, and so on. So, a lot of groups have been put under suspicion by ICE.
Why, why, Why? It's politics. It's part of the established vindictiveness of the Trump administration, and Minnesota is among a group of liberal (blue) states, and our governor ran against Trump in the last election (as VP).
javi2541997February 09, 2026 at 21:21#10399310 likes
Reply to BC I feel very sad about how everything is changing for the worse regarding politics. It is true that the ICE forces and Trump administration are extreme examples, but I feel that most of the politicians are screwed in the Western world. There are no longer any kinds of limitations in the use of language and violence. It is scary because even though I'm watching this "in the distance", I feel like this could happen in Spain.
It is hard to understand why people actually vote for these scenarios. Are they frustrated by their jobs? Perhaps they are. Are they outraged at how the public administration works? Perhaps they are. Are they tired of the traditional status quo? Perhaps... Yet it is horrible to see that some folks direct their wrath to other people just because they feel disappointed about something.
Worse things did happen in Spain. And in lots of other countries.
The truth is that the current disruption of 'normal' politics in the United States has happened before and in far worse ways than the present. I'll list a few:
1860-1865 American Civil War
1890-1940 Jim Crow oppression of black people
1919-1920 Red Terror -- reactionary violence against labor groups, minorities
1949-1952 (+ or - a year or two) McCarthyism -- rooting out communists and gays (real or imaginary)
1960-1975 poliical/social upheaval; white racism (Wallace), Vietnam War and resistance
1960s-1970s COINTELPRO - a long term program to infiltrate and weaken/destroy leftist organizations
1973 - present steady deterioration in economic stability of the working class (80%+ of the people)
9/11, 2001 - present reactionary response to WTC destruction, "Homeland Security", etc.
Those are just some of the highlights. The US has experienced a lot of turmoil, and so have other stable, prosperous western countries -- never mind unstable poor countries.
There are periods of quiet, long or short, which may or may not be simultaneous periods of good government and social progress. Everything seems to be working pretty well. Then a shovel full of shit hits the fan. It's not "back to square one" by any means, but it takes time to clean up the crap.
Where do the shovels full of shit come from?
My theory (not original) is that stresses build up in sections of society, and eventually become intolerable to the affected group. They go on the offensive, and attempt to either punish convenient people, or to destroy the cohesiveness of "the enemy", whoever that might be. Race riots, which have occurred repeatedly in the United States (the 2020 riots in Minneapolis and across the country) were the latest example) of ethnic anger. Of course, race riots don't improve life for anyone.
Labor strikes are a positive example of stress building up and rupturing -- workers would rather risk their security than continue working under the same terms. Labor has been less successful in gaining better terms (or even unionizing) over the last 40 years because business has organized itself against unionism.
The disruptions of the Vietnam war had elements of gender, age, and race resistance. Young white men had more ways of avoiding the draft than blacks did, so blacks ended making up a large portion of the forces and dead bodies. The black community resented it, naturally and properly. That doesn't explain all of the marches; there were economic and cultural issues, too.
One of the roles of government (quite unofficial but central) is to manage and mask social stresses, so that they don't become headlines and embarrass the current regime of business and politics. It works to cover up stresses, until it doesn't -- than the shovel of shit and the fan.
javi2541997February 10, 2026 at 05:36#10399860 likes
9/11, 2001 - present reactionary response to WTC destruction, "Homeland Security", etc.
9/11 changed everything. I can't talk about the other periods of time because I wasn't even born yet, but I know how the present century has been changing due to the 2001 attack on the Twin Towers. This is the era of the end of privacy and continuous surveillance by the governments.
There are cameras everywhere. Government folks and politicians claim that this is good for improving and maintaining safety. I think there are not many in Madrid, but I remember that London was full of cameras in every corner and in every street lamp. Furthermore, social media has helped different governments and institutions to spy on and track people. Innocent individuals share details of their lives on social media, believing that it is harmless – but they are mistaken!
Remember Snowden and WikiLeaks? Nowadays, nobody is talking about him because of Jeffrey Epstein's files, but WikiLeaks was one of the most important events in our recent history. He leaked and released very relevant papers and footage about how the army operated in Iraq (July 12, 2007 Baghdad airstrike controversy) and other creepy things. After this bomb exploded, the U.S. government went after him, claiming that his actions were against national security.
I agree, and I have understood what this was all about since then – their "security" against our rights.
Reply to javi2541997 9/11 still totally amazes me. It was a novel attack without precedent and was incredibly fast and effective. It started after breakfast and was over before an early lunch, and was televised live. I was at work at the University; a TV was rolled into the atrium of our building and a lot of people watched it. I was stunned that a lot of people kept on working away, despite having a world-watershed moment just happen. What would it take to interrupt these people? A direct hit by a nuclear bomb?
The only event with similar emotional power was November 23, 1963, when President Kennedy was killed in Dallas, then Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassin was killed the next day, shot at very close range, live on television by Jack Ruby.
Maybe security was increased for presidents, but no sweeping controls were imposed on the public.
Isn't that what they call "the ring of steel"? What with Amazon "Ring" video door bells all over the place, and cameras trained on public places, rings of steel are everywhere.
javi2541997February 10, 2026 at 08:06#10399920 likes
This exchange of ideas and opinions has been intriguing, but it is becoming rather stressful...
It is time for some margarine toast with coffee, and then to head to the stream to fish for freshwater mussels. You are invited, BC, as is Clarky @T Clark.
javi2541997February 10, 2026 at 08:17#10399930 likes
By the way, changing today's topic of The Shoutbox. Did you know that there are different types of stream?
The Cambridge Dictionary defines stream, saying: [i]water that flows naturally along a fixed route formed by a channel cut into rock or ground, usually at ground level.[/I]
Nonetheless, Wikipedia has a more substantial study on streams. It says the article: [i]Long, large streams are usually called rivers, while smaller, less voluminous and more intermittent streams are known, amongst others, as brook, creek, rivulet, rill, run, tributary, feeder, freshet, narrow river, and streamlet.[/I]
Brook: [i]A brook is a stream smaller than a creek, especially one that is fed by a spring or seep.[/I]
Creek: [i]In Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States, a (narrow) stream that is smaller than a river; a minor tributary of a river; a brook. In the United Kingdom, India, and parts of Maryland, New England,[14] a tidal inlet, typically in a salt marsh or mangrove swamp, or between enclosed and drained former salt marshes or swamps.[/I]
I was stunned that a lot of people kept on working away, despite having a world-watershed moment just happen. What would it take to interrupt these people? A direct hit by a nuclear bomb?
And yet, bombs killing tens or hundreds or thousands of people in cities is something that happens in the world on a pretty regular basis. Compared to the holocaust or Rwanda, 911 was pocket change. It was America’s response that made it earth shattering, not the events themselves.
That brook in Sheffield would be called a burn in Scotland, or an allt in the Gaelic-speaking lands of the Highlands. This indicates that the words relate to geographic and linguistic context rather than different types of watercourse. Watercourse, by the way, is the term that covers them all.
Reply to javi2541997 Rivers and creeks get names here, like the Chattahoochee River or Potato Creek. A stream or brook wouldn't, like there wouldn't be an official Appalachacochochiola Stream or Bob's Brook.
We have lakes, like Lake Lanier, but when we're in Scotland, we say Loch Lomond and we sing about the high and low road, but we might call it Lake Loch Lomond to be clear.
javi2541997February 10, 2026 at 17:21#10400650 likes
Reply to Jamal Interesting. I agree that words relate to geographic and linguistic context. We call it arroyo, and in Catalunya they say quebrada. etc.
Reply to Hanover That's also interesting. We do put names in streams or brooks. For example, when you go to the boundaries of Madrid, you would see a stream called arroyo culebro - "serpent stream"
Fun fact: there is a small village in Ayrshire called Moscow, and it has a tiny stream flowing through it called the Volga (by a local with a sense of humour, I suppose).
Fun fact: there is a small village in Ayrshire called Moscow, and it has a tiny stream flowing through it called the Volga (by a local with a sense of humour, I suppose).
But the river that flows through Moscow in Russia isn’t the Volga.
Fun fact: there is a small village in Ayrshire called Moscow, and it has a tiny stream flowing through it called the Volga (by a local with a sense of humour, I suppose).
We do put names in streams or brooks. For example, when you go to the boundaries of Madrid, you would see a stream called arroyo culebro - "serpent stream"
Speaking of brooks…one of my favorite poems:
Robert Frost - West Running Brook:Fred, where is north?'
'North? North is there, my love.
The brook runs west.'
'West-running Brook then call it.'
(West-Running Brook men call it to this day.)
'What does it think it's doing running west
When all the other country brooks flow east
To reach the ocean? It must be the brook
Can trust itself to go by contraries
Here's the whole thing:
[hide="Reveal"]
[quote="Robert Frost - West Running Brook"]
Fred, where is north?'
'North? North is there, my love.
The brook runs west.'
'West-running Brook then call it.'
(West-Running Brook men call it to this day.)
'What does it think it's doing running west
When all the other country brooks flow east
To reach the ocean? It must be the brook
Can trust itself to go by contraries
The way I can with you -- and you with me --
Because we're -- we're -- I don't know what we are.
What are we?'
'Young or new?'
'We must be something.
We've said we two. Let's change that to we three.
As you and I are married to each other,
We'll both be married to the brook. We'll build
Our bridge across it, and the bridge shall be
Our arm thrown over it asleep beside it.
Look, look, it's waving to us with a wave
To let us know it hears me.'
'Why, my dear,
That wave's been standing off this jut of shore --'
(The black stream, catching a sunken rock,
Flung backward on itself in one white wave,
And the white water rode the black forever,
Not gaining but not losing, like a bird
White feathers from the struggle of whose breast
Flecked the dark stream and flecked the darker pool
Below the point, and were at last driven wrinkled
In a white scarf against the far shore alders.)
'That wave's been standing off this jut of shore
Ever since rivers, I was going to say,'
Were made in heaven. It wasn't waved to us.'
'It wasn't, yet it was. If not to you
It was to me -- in an annunciation.'
'Oh, if you take it off to lady-land,
As't were the country of the Amazons
We men must see you to the confines of
And leave you there, ourselves forbid to enter,-
It is your brook! I have no more to say.'
'Yes, you have, too. Go on. You thought of something.'
'Speaking of contraries, see how the brook
In that white wave runs counter to itself.
It is from that in water we were from
Long, long before we were from any creature.
Here we, in our impatience of the steps,
Get back to the beginning of beginnings,
The stream of everything that runs away.
Some say existence like a Pirouot
And Pirouette, forever in one place,
Stands still and dances, but it runs away,
It seriously, sadly, runs away
To fill the abyss' void with emptiness.
It flows beside us in this water brook,
But it flows over us. It flows between us
To separate us for a panic moment.
It flows between us, over us, and with us.
And it is time, strength, tone, light, life and love-
And even substance lapsing unsubstantial;
The universal cataract of death
That spends to nothingness -- and unresisted,
Save by some strange resistance in itself,
Not just a swerving, but a throwing back,
As if regret were in it and were sacred.
It has this throwing backward on itself
So that the fall of most of it is always
Raising a little, sending up a little.
Our life runs down in sending up the clock.
The brook runs down in sending up our life.
The sun runs down in sending up the brook.
And there is something sending up the sun.
It is this backward motion toward the source,
Against the stream, that most we see ourselves in,
The tribute of the current to the source.
It is from this in nature we are from.
It is most us.'
'To-day will be the day....You said so.'
'No, to-day will be the day
You said the brook was called West-running Brook.'
'To-day will be the day of what we both said.'[/hide]
But the river that flows through Moscow in Russia isn’t the Volga
True, well-spotted, but the Moscow river is a tributary of one of the main tributaries of the Volga. And I don't think they were going for geographical accuracy.
Reply to javi2541997 Heraclitus said "You know, Javi, you can't step in the same creek or crick twice." What's the difference?
Most people in the US say it's a creek that you can't step in twice. A minority say "crick". Here's a map of crick speakers. [this is from the Harvard Dialect Survey - http://dialect.redlog.net]
The largest number of "cricks" are in the area identified as "Yankeeedom" -- influenced by New Englanders.
javi2541997February 10, 2026 at 21:26#10401250 likes
Heraclitus said "You know, Javi, you can't step in the same creek or crick twice." What's the difference?
I remember it, yes. While I was fishing for salmon in the creek, Heraclitus spoke those words to me. I am still wondering why because I don't know Greek, but he talked to me overtly.
Reply to javi2541997 Heraclitus wasn't familiar with English or Spanish -- neither language existed when he was pontificating about stepping into the Guadalquivir River or Mill Crick twice. He's Greek to me, too. Is that an idiom in Spanish -- something incomprehensible is "Greek to me"?
Another question: Are there regional variations in Spanish pronunciation of particular words? Spanish has a much more regular system of speech sounds, thanks to Latin. At least that's true for Castellano. American classrooms teach that variety of Español. What I hear on the street from various south-of-the-border immigrants is sometimes totally unintelligible. (It might not be Español at all. Might be Mayan.). But that goes for some black English too. In the the Western Hemisphere class has something to do with the way Español is spoken; that's probably true for Portuguese too. The higher the class, the more formal the language.
True, well-spotted, but the Moscow river is a tributary of one of the main tributaries of the Volga. And I don't think they were going for geographical accuracy.
I only brought it up because I remember being surprised when I tracked the Volga back up from the Caspian Sea on Google Earth and found it didn’t go through Moscow.
I was surprised to learn that it's a 60 hour car ride (61 if you stop for snacks) from the Volga to the Nile.
I had always thought it was 58 (59 if you stop for snacks).
Some say the Volga is the river of things expected otherwise.
I live near the Alcovy River, named by the ancient Cherokee Indians for their oddly designed teepees that contained alcoves, where they would snuggle in and read anachronistic tales of Victorian royalty.
Are there regional variations in Spanish pronunciation of particular words?
But of course! I found a map on the Internet with all the possible linguistic variations!
She is from Madrid, like me. She speaks Spanish "without accent", as we say in the Peninsula. I believe you will understand her better than if she had a thick accent.
Reply to javi2541997 You and and Heraclitus can't step in that river once, if it is flooding.
in the first video, the syllabication was clearer to me; I could detect more individual syllables and words (not that I understand them). I listened to it at 75% speed, however. It is, of course, more refined than some of the street Spanish I hear. At regular speed the second video was a bit too fast for me to "hear" much of it. I'd have to listen to it multiple times.
Thanks for the map of variations in Spanish. I've noticed significant variation in French too, based on listening to the pronunciation of French vocal music (popular or operas like CARMEN).
javi2541997February 11, 2026 at 06:55#10402250 likes
You and and Heraclitus can't step in that river once, if it is flooding.
Yeah, and this makes me feel very sad. I love to step in the rivers, but I can't do it right now!
Last week, I was in the Tajo river. It was very fun. I went again two days ago, and it started overflowing. Local authorities warned us to stay away from the shoreline.
Metaphysician UndercoverFebruary 11, 2026 at 13:52#10402560 likes
One of the roles of government (quite unofficial but central) is to manage and mask social stresses, so that they don't become headlines and embarrass the current regime of business and politics. It works to cover up stresses, until it doesn't -- than the shovel of shit and the fan.
This is not quite the lens through which I view the present administration.
Reply to hypericin OK. There are things the government can, should, and ought to do, but I see the current administration creating stresses in a calculated way, one designed to make his base happy and leave his opponents disconsolate.
Trump likes games of uproar. That's fine in private company -- stir up all the trouble you want in the golf course club house. But... the White House, Courts, and Congress should be calm and orderly. That's not what we are seeing.
No, this is wrong. There's an implied multiplication sign between the symbols. It's actually:
1 × 6 × x = 3 × x
1 × 6 = 3
6 = 3
2 = 1
You can read another proof of this by Terrence Howard (Tony Stark's friend in the first Iron Man movie): https://x.com/terrencehoward/status/925754491881877507
Your denying I think it's right doesn't make it not right. It just makes it where you don't think I do think.
But think about this: Suppose I said "I think that's right but it's not right," you'd be like how can I think it's right but know it's not right, but then I'd be like, well, if you can think I don't think it's right, then why can't I? Like you're better than me?
So, 3=16 and as @Michael showed 2=1. What this means is 3+2 = 17, which is what I've thought all along.
I like that, when the speaker of the dialect says mine is the one without accent. Somehow, it always appears that way.
At the Smithsonian they have a measure of a foot that they will always be able to go back to to know what the standard foot is.
They also have a recording of me saying a bunch of things so that they can have a sample of how standard English is spoken. The problem is that I created it in the early 80s and it's all on 8 track and they can't play it anywhere except on a Gremlin they have stored next door, but it's hard to start it and there's always teens from the 70s making out in it.
Also, they have a wax figure of me and I serve as the standard of manhood. You might want to swing by and see how you measure up.
You might want to swing by and see how you measure up.
I don't need to. My cousin had a Gremlin, and I had the 8 tracks. He said we were doing 80mph, but it was rattling like a Lada at 60. Then my boss took me for a ride in his Cadillac. I just enjoyed the ride. Who needs a wax replica? Consider dear old Protagoras, I am the measuring rod.
Was his name Kurt by any chance? That's the guy I knew, and I remember thinking back then he seemed like he'd be the cousin of someone on TPF I'd be talking to 40 or so years later.
There are things the government can, should, and ought to do, but I see the current administration creating stresses in a calculated way, one designed to make his base happy and leave his opponents disconsolate.
Trump likes games of uproar. That's fine in private company -- stir up all the trouble you want in the golf course club house. But... the White House, Courts, and Congress should be calm and orderly. That's not what we are seeing.
If you can't beat them, join them!
Metaphysician UndercoverFebruary 14, 2026 at 23:05#10407530 likes
Was his name Kurt by any chance? That's the guy I knew, and I remember thinking back then he seemed like he'd be the cousin of someone on TPF I'd be talking to 40 or so years later.
Google tells me that would be Kurt Cobain. Could have been, I do believe he had some aliases, and he played in a band. He always laughed at metaphysics, but he revved the Gremlin beyond what seemed physically possible, so that might have tipped you off. He's still alive, so I don't think he was Kurt,. Unless...!
he revved the Gremlin beyond what seemed physically possible
Did he have the 5.0 V-8 version? Always thought that was a bit much for a subcompact, but it makes since that a 90s grunge icon would need it.
Metaphysician UndercoverFebruary 15, 2026 at 02:41#10407800 likes
Reply to Hanover
Straight six from the late seventies, You're right, the V-8 didn't make any sense. The Gremlin was supposed to be a fuel saving economy car. The Americans didn't know anything about making a fuel efficient engine, that's why Honda did so well, small engine high revs.
javi2541997February 15, 2026 at 05:55#10407870 likes
Defenestration just means the act of throwing someone or something out of a window. The word doesn’t require that someone else does the throwing. So if you throw yourself out the window, that still counts.
I wrote on the search tab of IberLibro, "books and papers about mussels in English language", and this was (by far) the best result.
I don't know who Michael Kerney and Alan Stubbs are, but it seems that their research was funded by the British Nature Conservancy Council.
The first chapter is about "an outline of British fauna," and the work has plenty of black-and-white photos of snails, slugs, and mussels. It also contains a map of the UK (only England) spotted with different dots where you can find these groups of invertebrates.
I was in an Airbnb for a week recently and every morning I found trails of shimmering slime all over the lounge and kitchen. Finally I found the culprit when I got up at 3 in the morning, went to the kitchen, and stepped on something soft and moist with my bare feet.
My foot recoiled so fast that the slug—for such it was—was unharmed. I escorted it outside (in a manner of speaking).
An announcement about the TPF migration will be posted tomorrow or the day after. In a nutshell, this site will be closed in about 10-12 days, if all goes well.
javi2541997February 16, 2026 at 19:11#10410230 likes
The refusal or inability to recognise and adhere to a principle is a basis to doubt all future ethical conduct.
Ernest Hemingway said “The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.”
Alexander HineFebruary 19, 2026 at 08:42#10415270 likes
Random Brain Fart;
The problem of existence is ostensibly how you process information from your environment and intuitively from a thought and how that may be confirmed to the comfortable life.
ToothyMawFebruary 20, 2026 at 18:08#10417330 likes
I just want everyone to know that I put up a new topic on the new site called Justice is Contextual. I think a lot of people will like it. I'm not sure if linking it here is going to get people to read it because a lot of members are hanging on to this old site, but I thought I'd try it. Move to the new site, people. It's great. I don't think this post is against the guidelines, but I admit it does constitute self-promotion perhaps to the level of being annoying. Thanks.
javi2541997February 20, 2026 at 19:01#10417440 likes
Your recent comments have been teleported to the Lounge Shoutbox and the announcement thread closed.
Yes, that was the right decision. A noble and wise leader knows when those who follow him step out of line and precisely how to respond. The hallmark of a king most true.
Anyhow. Hopefully in the new place quotes retain their stylized formatting unlike currently. If not. Well, that's just a burden I'll have to live with.
Yes, that was the right decision. A noble and wise leader knows when those who follow him step out of line and precisely how to respond. The hallmark of a king most true.
I feel more like a housekeeper cleaning up after you.
Anyhow. Hopefully in the new place quotes retain their stylized formatting unlike currently. If not. Well, that's just a burden I'll have to live with.
I feel more like a housekeeper cleaning up after you.
And humble, too! You know, they say only the most legendary of kings arose not out of force or fear but out of the sheer will and desire of the people; both strong and meek, both wise and dull, both rich and poor, united in one vision placing faith on the shoulder's of one man deemed forever worthy.
Then again, they say a lot of things.
OutlanderFebruary 24, 2026 at 08:12#10420740 likes
And humble, too! You know, they say only the most legendary of kings arose not out of force or fear but out of the sheer will and desire of the people; both strong and meek, both wise and dull, both rich and poor, united in one vision placing faith on the shoulder's of one man deemed forever worthy.
Then again, they say a lot of things.
Yeah, as far back as Plato they acknowledged that anyone who wants to rule is not fit to rule. Philosopher kings have to be forced to be kings.
And as a follow-up (my treachery apparently knows no bounds): [hide="Reveal"]Where can his infamous exploits be read? Is there a specific thread you vividly recall him participating in? (I wanted to use Archive.org to peruse his inner thoughts, apparently the man is something of a legend in the eyes of quite a few)[/hide]
A member of the old old forum. But I think he had gone before I joined, so I have no idea what the fuss was all about, and I never saw any of his posts that I recall. @Banno and @Paul are the ones to ask.
It just occurred to me that I haven't seen much discussion about cups in cupboards lately. We used to talk about them all the time.
OutlanderFebruary 24, 2026 at 10:22#10420820 likes
I sincerely appreciate the response.
In case you were curious, it was this thread what got me intrigued.
Also this post on this forum. I am loathe to admit I have a shockingly similar mindset and worldview as that particular OP as far as so-called "useless information" is concerned. :rofl:
As an aside, perhaps, not unlike a woman, I simply enjoy gossip. What is the point of gossip anyway, I wonder? Could it be that it bestows an artificial sense of belonging (and therefore purpose) alongside power in a situation and over a given person or group of persons? Yes, that could be it. Or, perhaps not. Perhaps it's but sheer boredom. Who could say. :smile:
- Gossip facilitates learning from others when direct observation is not possible
- Gossip builds social connections and aligns social impressions and behavior
- Gossip increases cooperative group behavior in public goods games
OutlanderFebruary 24, 2026 at 13:07#10420970 likes
I like the "Member's Blog" function. I suppose the same thing can be effectively achieved by a post in the About Me or a link to an actual blog. Still, it's interesting and logically instills an incentive to participate on a site more as well as creativity for creativity's sake. Especially the "Latest Blog" shown under the username.
What are your thoughts on user signatures? I kind of like how there are none here, honestly.
Reply to Michael
Seems some of my dissenting voice got deleted. But at least this remains:
''baden511: You get on with what you do and we'll get on with what we do. I hope things work out for you. (@bcc, I think you took it the wrong way too).
P.S. I see my membership is under review. Feel free to do what you like. I was a sponsor and member of something that this site no longer is.''
'' we'll get on with what we do''... And we did.
''I hope things work out for you.'' ... But they didn't.
Still, being a member and member of staff at the previous incarnation was an honour, as it has been here. Kudos to @Jamal and @Paul
Onward.
OutlanderFebruary 25, 2026 at 21:23#10421680 likes
In less than 3 hours this forum will be no longer!
It's like witnessing a caterpillar turn into a butterfly. Or something.
But can Jamal really do it? He's reasonable and certainly on par as far as philosophy goes. But tech-wise? I'd say there's a fair wager to be met.
OutlanderFebruary 25, 2026 at 21:28#10421690 likes
I'm reminded of a monologue of a character from a certain type of media I enjoy.
"This place is already dead. Everything you see here will soon crumble away, to make room for something new. Isn't it wonderful!"
Yes, is this not the coldest and hardest therefore truest truth of the world we live in?
OutlanderFebruary 25, 2026 at 21:30#10421700 likes
Ah, my precious Private Messages. There's at least two people (one of which I haven't the slightest idea who they are) offered me their email as a means to stay in contact. Hm. Perhaps in these last hours I should review them.
Comments (63126)
Once the manure started stinking up the building (even though cow shit smells much better than human crap) they decided to just release the ones that hadn't already been flown down to El Salvador. So now Minnehaha Park has a herd of hungry holsteins begging from sight seers looking at the frozen falls.
I had to put water on my Raisin Bran flakes this morning. Fortunately for us, other states produce ice cream, and Wisconsin -- the Dairy State -- is right next door. But it takes time to set up delivery systems to new markets, and that hasn't happened yet.
NOW VERY SERIOUSLY
The ICE operations have had a very negative effect on the quality of life for a lot of people, not just undocumented immigrants. Lake Street, which is a central artery through Minneapolis, has suffered an economic bomb. It was ripped up pretty badly in the George Floyd riots in 2020, then Covid, but was beginning to recover. Many Hispanic and Somali businesses have closed, or if open, are guarded behind locked front doors. The hospitality business all over the metro area has been harmed quite badly, because the role immigrants play as service workers.
Deporting illegal immigrants is actually a routine operation of long standing, but ICE has conducted this operation like "a bull in a china shop" and things have broken, people have been killed. There are, apparently, a small number of undocumented Somalis here, but most of them -- as they say -- arrived on Delta Airlines--legally. Some of them are now third generation. None he less, Somalis have come in for harassment.
The largest share of the undocumented are from south of the Rio Grande, of course, but there are also a smattering of undocumented people from West Africa, Burma, China, and so on. So, a lot of groups have been put under suspicion by ICE.
Why, why, Why? It's politics. It's part of the established vindictiveness of the Trump administration, and Minnesota is among a group of liberal (blue) states, and our governor ran against Trump in the last election (as VP).
It is hard to understand why people actually vote for these scenarios. Are they frustrated by their jobs? Perhaps they are. Are they outraged at how the public administration works? Perhaps they are. Are they tired of the traditional status quo? Perhaps... Yet it is horrible to see that some folks direct their wrath to other people just because they feel disappointed about something.
We have left the study of the humanities behind!
Worse things did happen in Spain. And in lots of other countries.
The truth is that the current disruption of 'normal' politics in the United States has happened before and in far worse ways than the present. I'll list a few:
1860-1865 American Civil War
1890-1940 Jim Crow oppression of black people
1919-1920 Red Terror -- reactionary violence against labor groups, minorities
1949-1952 (+ or - a year or two) McCarthyism -- rooting out communists and gays (real or imaginary)
1960-1975 poliical/social upheaval; white racism (Wallace), Vietnam War and resistance
1960s-1970s COINTELPRO - a long term program to infiltrate and weaken/destroy leftist organizations
1973 - present steady deterioration in economic stability of the working class (80%+ of the people)
9/11, 2001 - present reactionary response to WTC destruction, "Homeland Security", etc.
Those are just some of the highlights. The US has experienced a lot of turmoil, and so have other stable, prosperous western countries -- never mind unstable poor countries.
There are periods of quiet, long or short, which may or may not be simultaneous periods of good government and social progress. Everything seems to be working pretty well. Then a shovel full of shit hits the fan. It's not "back to square one" by any means, but it takes time to clean up the crap.
Where do the shovels full of shit come from?
My theory (not original) is that stresses build up in sections of society, and eventually become intolerable to the affected group. They go on the offensive, and attempt to either punish convenient people, or to destroy the cohesiveness of "the enemy", whoever that might be. Race riots, which have occurred repeatedly in the United States (the 2020 riots in Minneapolis and across the country) were the latest example) of ethnic anger. Of course, race riots don't improve life for anyone.
Labor strikes are a positive example of stress building up and rupturing -- workers would rather risk their security than continue working under the same terms. Labor has been less successful in gaining better terms (or even unionizing) over the last 40 years because business has organized itself against unionism.
The disruptions of the Vietnam war had elements of gender, age, and race resistance. Young white men had more ways of avoiding the draft than blacks did, so blacks ended making up a large portion of the forces and dead bodies. The black community resented it, naturally and properly. That doesn't explain all of the marches; there were economic and cultural issues, too.
One of the roles of government (quite unofficial but central) is to manage and mask social stresses, so that they don't become headlines and embarrass the current regime of business and politics. It works to cover up stresses, until it doesn't -- than the shovel of shit and the fan.
9/11 changed everything. I can't talk about the other periods of time because I wasn't even born yet, but I know how the present century has been changing due to the 2001 attack on the Twin Towers. This is the era of the end of privacy and continuous surveillance by the governments.
There are cameras everywhere. Government folks and politicians claim that this is good for improving and maintaining safety. I think there are not many in Madrid, but I remember that London was full of cameras in every corner and in every street lamp. Furthermore, social media has helped different governments and institutions to spy on and track people. Innocent individuals share details of their lives on social media, believing that it is harmless – but they are mistaken!
Remember Snowden and WikiLeaks? Nowadays, nobody is talking about him because of Jeffrey Epstein's files, but WikiLeaks was one of the most important events in our recent history. He leaked and released very relevant papers and footage about how the army operated in Iraq (July 12, 2007 Baghdad airstrike controversy) and other creepy things. After this bomb exploded, the U.S. government went after him, claiming that his actions were against national security.
I agree, and I have understood what this was all about since then – their "security" against our rights.
The only event with similar emotional power was November 23, 1963, when President Kennedy was killed in Dallas, then Lee Harvey Oswald, the assassin was killed the next day, shot at very close range, live on television by Jack Ruby.
Maybe security was increased for presidents, but no sweeping controls were imposed on the public.
Isn't that what they call "the ring of steel"? What with Amazon "Ring" video door bells all over the place, and cameras trained on public places, rings of steel are everywhere.
This exchange of ideas and opinions has been intriguing, but it is becoming rather stressful...
It is time for some margarine toast with coffee, and then to head to the stream to fish for freshwater mussels. You are invited, BC, as is Clarky @T Clark.
The Cambridge Dictionary defines stream, saying: [i]water that flows naturally along a fixed route formed by a channel cut into rock or ground, usually at ground level.[/I]
Nonetheless, Wikipedia has a more substantial study on streams. It says the article: [i]Long, large streams are usually called rivers, while smaller, less voluminous and more intermittent streams are known, amongst others, as brook, creek, rivulet, rill, run, tributary, feeder, freshet, narrow river, and streamlet.[/I]
Brook: [i]A brook is a stream smaller than a creek, especially one that is fed by a spring or seep.[/I]
Creek: [i]In Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States, a (narrow) stream that is smaller than a river; a minor tributary of a river; a brook. In the United Kingdom, India, and parts of Maryland, New England,[14] a tidal inlet, typically in a salt marsh or mangrove swamp, or between enclosed and drained former salt marshes or swamps.[/I]
etc...
An example of a brook. Sheffield, UK.
And yet, bombs killing tens or hundreds or thousands of people in cities is something that happens in the world on a pretty regular basis. Compared to the holocaust or Rwanda, 911 was pocket change. It was America’s response that made it earth shattering, not the events themselves.
That brook in Sheffield would be called a burn in Scotland, or an allt in the Gaelic-speaking lands of the Highlands. This indicates that the words relate to geographic and linguistic context rather than different types of watercourse. Watercourse, by the way, is the term that covers them all.
We have lakes, like Lake Lanier, but when we're in Scotland, we say Loch Lomond and we sing about the high and low road, but we might call it Lake Loch Lomond to be clear.
That's also interesting. We do put names in streams or brooks. For example, when you go to the boundaries of Madrid, you would see a stream called arroyo culebro - "serpent stream"
Wikipedia article.
Fun fact: there is a small village in Ayrshire called Moscow, and it has a tiny stream flowing through it called the Volga (by a local with a sense of humour, I suppose).
But the river that flows through Moscow in Russia isn’t the Volga.
[sup]— Phoebe Tonks · UNILAD · Jan 22, 2026[/sup]
:lol:
Quoting T Clark
Clarky! Don't be a spoilsport!
Quoting javi2541997
Speaking of brooks…one of my favorite poems:
Here's the whole thing:
[hide="Reveal"]
[quote="Robert Frost - West Running Brook"]
Fred, where is north?'
'North? North is there, my love.
The brook runs west.'
'West-running Brook then call it.'
(West-Running Brook men call it to this day.)
'What does it think it's doing running west
When all the other country brooks flow east
To reach the ocean? It must be the brook
Can trust itself to go by contraries
The way I can with you -- and you with me --
Because we're -- we're -- I don't know what we are.
What are we?'
'Young or new?'
'We must be something.
We've said we two. Let's change that to we three.
As you and I are married to each other,
We'll both be married to the brook. We'll build
Our bridge across it, and the bridge shall be
Our arm thrown over it asleep beside it.
Look, look, it's waving to us with a wave
To let us know it hears me.'
'Why, my dear,
That wave's been standing off this jut of shore --'
(The black stream, catching a sunken rock,
Flung backward on itself in one white wave,
And the white water rode the black forever,
Not gaining but not losing, like a bird
White feathers from the struggle of whose breast
Flecked the dark stream and flecked the darker pool
Below the point, and were at last driven wrinkled
In a white scarf against the far shore alders.)
'That wave's been standing off this jut of shore
Ever since rivers, I was going to say,'
Were made in heaven. It wasn't waved to us.'
'It wasn't, yet it was. If not to you
It was to me -- in an annunciation.'
'Oh, if you take it off to lady-land,
As't were the country of the Amazons
We men must see you to the confines of
And leave you there, ourselves forbid to enter,-
It is your brook! I have no more to say.'
'Yes, you have, too. Go on. You thought of something.'
'Speaking of contraries, see how the brook
In that white wave runs counter to itself.
It is from that in water we were from
Long, long before we were from any creature.
Here we, in our impatience of the steps,
Get back to the beginning of beginnings,
The stream of everything that runs away.
Some say existence like a Pirouot
And Pirouette, forever in one place,
Stands still and dances, but it runs away,
It seriously, sadly, runs away
To fill the abyss' void with emptiness.
It flows beside us in this water brook,
But it flows over us. It flows between us
To separate us for a panic moment.
It flows between us, over us, and with us.
And it is time, strength, tone, light, life and love-
And even substance lapsing unsubstantial;
The universal cataract of death
That spends to nothingness -- and unresisted,
Save by some strange resistance in itself,
Not just a swerving, but a throwing back,
As if regret were in it and were sacred.
It has this throwing backward on itself
So that the fall of most of it is always
Raising a little, sending up a little.
Our life runs down in sending up the clock.
The brook runs down in sending up our life.
The sun runs down in sending up the brook.
And there is something sending up the sun.
It is this backward motion toward the source,
Against the stream, that most we see ourselves in,
The tribute of the current to the source.
It is from this in nature we are from.
It is most us.'
'To-day will be the day....You said so.'
'No, to-day will be the day
You said the brook was called West-running Brook.'
'To-day will be the day of what we both said.'[/hide]
True, well-spotted, but the Moscow river is a tributary of one of the main tributaries of the Volga. And I don't think they were going for geographical accuracy.
Most people in the US say it's a creek that you can't step in twice. A minority say "crick". Here's a map of crick speakers. [this is from the Harvard Dialect Survey - http://dialect.redlog.net]
The largest number of "cricks" are in the area identified as "Yankeeedom" -- influenced by New Englanders.
I remember it, yes. While I was fishing for salmon in the creek, Heraclitus spoke those words to me. I am still wondering why because I don't know Greek, but he talked to me overtly.
Another question: Are there regional variations in Spanish pronunciation of particular words? Spanish has a much more regular system of speech sounds, thanks to Latin. At least that's true for Castellano. American classrooms teach that variety of Español. What I hear on the street from various south-of-the-border immigrants is sometimes totally unintelligible. (It might not be Español at all. Might be Mayan.). But that goes for some black English too. In the the Western Hemisphere class has something to do with the way Español is spoken; that's probably true for Portuguese too. The higher the class, the more formal the language.
I only brought it up because I remember being surprised when I tracked the Volga back up from the Caspian Sea on Google Earth and found it didn’t go through Moscow.
Next time turn left onto the Oka when you get to Nizhny Novgorod, then turn right onto the Moscow river at Kolomna.
What surprised me is that the source of the Volga is North West of Moscow (350 km away).
I had always thought it was 58 (59 if you stop for snacks).
Some say the Volga is the river of things expected otherwise.
I live near the Alcovy River, named by the ancient Cherokee Indians for their oddly designed teepees that contained alcoves, where they would snuggle in and read anachronistic tales of Victorian royalty.
"Named by Muskogean Indians as "Ulcofauchatchie," meaning "river among the bog potato," which was later anglicized to Alcovy. "
Turns out the truth is more fucked up than my account.
I'm going to start calling it Swamp Tater River. That's more fitting for hereabouts.
Yes, we have a similar idiom – we say, "me suena a chino" (it sounds like Chinese), when something is incomprehensible.
Quoting BC
But of course! I found a map on the Internet with all the possible linguistic variations!
She is from Madrid, like me. She speaks Spanish "without accent", as we say in the Peninsula. I believe you will understand her better than if she had a thick accent.
Quoting BC
The Guadalquivir River is overflowing, as is the Guadiana. Andalucía is having a serious problem with flooding right now. :sad:
in the first video, the syllabication was clearer to me; I could detect more individual syllables and words (not that I understand them). I listened to it at 75% speed, however. It is, of course, more refined than some of the street Spanish I hear. At regular speed the second video was a bit too fast for me to "hear" much of it. I'd have to listen to it multiple times.
Thanks for the map of variations in Spanish. I've noticed significant variation in French too, based on listening to the pronunciation of French vocal music (popular or operas like CARMEN).
Yeah, and this makes me feel very sad. I love to step in the rivers, but I can't do it right now!
Last week, I was in the Tajo river. It was very fun. I went again two days ago, and it started overflowing. Local authorities warned us to stay away from the shoreline.
I like that, when the speaker of the dialect says mine is the one without accent. Somehow, it always appears that way.
This is not quite the lens through which I view the present administration.
Trump likes games of uproar. That's fine in private company -- stir up all the trouble you want in the golf course club house. But... the White House, Courts, and Congress should be calm and orderly. That's not what we are seeing.
Yet, this is perfect. An absolutely unpresidential weirdo. No need to lie about him.
3x /X = 16
3=16
Or cross multiply:
16x = 3x
13 = 0
I think that's right.
No, this is wrong. There's an implied multiplication sign between the symbols. It's actually:
1 × 6 × x = 3 × x
1 × 6 = 3
6 = 3
2 = 1
You can read another proof of this by Terrence Howard (Tony Stark's friend in the first Iron Man movie): https://x.com/terrencehoward/status/925754491881877507
No.
Your denying I think it's right doesn't make it not right. It just makes it where you don't think I do think.
But think about this: Suppose I said "I think that's right but it's not right," you'd be like how can I think it's right but know it's not right, but then I'd be like, well, if you can think I don't think it's right, then why can't I? Like you're better than me?
So, 3=16 and as @Michael showed 2=1. What this means is 3+2 = 17, which is what I've thought all along.
I think that's right.
At the Smithsonian they have a measure of a foot that they will always be able to go back to to know what the standard foot is.
They also have a recording of me saying a bunch of things so that they can have a sample of how standard English is spoken. The problem is that I created it in the early 80s and it's all on 8 track and they can't play it anywhere except on a Gremlin they have stored next door, but it's hard to start it and there's always teens from the 70s making out in it.
Also, they have a wax figure of me and I serve as the standard of manhood. You might want to swing by and see how you measure up.
Yes, but no.
I don't need to. My cousin had a Gremlin, and I had the 8 tracks. He said we were doing 80mph, but it was rattling like a Lada at 60. Then my boss took me for a ride in his Cadillac. I just enjoyed the ride. Who needs a wax replica? Consider dear old Protagoras, I am the measuring rod.
Was his name Kurt by any chance? That's the guy I knew, and I remember thinking back then he seemed like he'd be the cousin of someone on TPF I'd be talking to 40 or so years later.
If you can't beat them, join them!
Google tells me that would be Kurt Cobain. Could have been, I do believe he had some aliases, and he played in a band. He always laughed at metaphysics, but he revved the Gremlin beyond what seemed physically possible, so that might have tipped you off. He's still alive, so I don't think he was Kurt,. Unless...!
Metes and bounds
Meets and greets
Did he have the 5.0 V-8 version? Always thought that was a bit much for a subcompact, but it makes since that a 90s grunge icon would need it.
Straight six from the late seventies, You're right, the V-8 didn't make any sense. The Gremlin was supposed to be a fuel saving economy car. The Americans didn't know anything about making a fuel efficient engine, that's why Honda did so well, small engine high revs.
[i]Carnes y verduras.
Linderos y límites.
Encuentro y bienvenida.[/i]
Now it is your turn. Translate the following into English:
Malleira and muiñeira.
Vaca and baca.
Aya and haya.
Ok, here goes:
Malaria and measles
Shake and bake
Granma and granpa
Let’s see if I got it right. I’ll check Google translate:
Galician and dance
Cow and roof rack
Babysitter and tree
"Malleira" means "beating someone up" in Galician.
Yes, a muiñeira is a traditional dance.
My ancestors are also Galacian, but a different Galacia I think.
Here's their dance:
No, that's autodefenestration.
An exquisitely American Pastime:
So, an autobiography isn’t a biography?
Yes it is.
QED
Agreed. I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was using "no" in the sense of "yes, and".
Sorry, Steely Dan is banned where I live.
As a matter of common law or spousal antipathy?
My own antipathy, actually :grin:
Noted.
My system rejects Billy Joel without exceptions.
Mine too.
And it just arrived! @T Clark
I wrote on the search tab of IberLibro, "books and papers about mussels in English language", and this was (by far) the best result.
I don't know who Michael Kerney and Alan Stubbs are, but it seems that their research was funded by the British Nature Conservancy Council.
The first chapter is about "an outline of British fauna," and the work has plenty of black-and-white photos of snails, slugs, and mussels. It also contains a map of the UK (only England) spotted with different dots where you can find these groups of invertebrates.
I’m glad I could be some sort of inspiration for you.
Quoting javi2541997
Next time you go to the UK, you can take the mollusk tour.
Mollusk tour > Camden Town Market. :ok:
I was in an Airbnb for a week recently and every morning I found trails of shimmering slime all over the lounge and kitchen. Finally I found the culprit when I got up at 3 in the morning, went to the kitchen, and stepped on something soft and moist with my bare feet.
My foot recoiled so fast that the slug—for such it was—was unharmed. I escorted it outside (in a manner of speaking).
Green and yellow, it was.
The new guest was waiting for you in the kitchen! :smile:
Quoting Jamal
Thanks for the announcement!
It's always good to announce every forthcoming announcement.
:chin:
They're called teaser trailers these days.
This winter... one forum faces its greatest migration yet.
"Dammit! You never leave a man behind!"
The refusal or inability to recognise and adhere to a principle is a basis to doubt all future ethical conduct.
Ernest Hemingway said “The best way to find out if you can trust somebody is to trust them.”
The problem of existence is ostensibly how you process information from your environment and intuitively from a thought and how that may be confirmed to the comfortable life.
:up: :up:
Sí.
Move there, folks.
That's 7 PM on Wednesday for people who matter. :up:
[hide="Reveal"]I'm kidding BTW. What? No closing anarchistic revelry allowed? Seriously? :eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wu5fsbwsNl4
[/hide]
Yes. Just for the Americans:
US Eastern: 25 Feb 19:00 (Wed)
Central: 18:00 (Wed)
Mountain: 17:00 (Wed)
Pacific: 16:00 (Wed)
That's 01:00 here. Time is a complex and confusing feature.
Yes, that was the right decision. A noble and wise leader knows when those who follow him step out of line and precisely how to respond. The hallmark of a king most true.
Anyhow. Hopefully in the new place quotes retain their stylized formatting unlike currently. If not. Well, that's just a burden I'll have to live with.
I feel more like a housekeeper cleaning up after you.
Yes, they do.
And humble, too! You know, they say only the most legendary of kings arose not out of force or fear but out of the sheer will and desire of the people; both strong and meek, both wise and dull, both rich and poor, united in one vision placing faith on the shoulder's of one man deemed forever worthy.
Then again, they say a lot of things.
May I ask a question about the old place? Promise you won't get mad.
Yeah, as far back as Plato they acknowledged that anyone who wants to rule is not fit to rule. Philosopher kings have to be forced to be kings.
I promise I will try to resist the temptation to express whatever anger I feel.
Fair enough.
Who is Gassendi1?
And as a follow-up (my treachery apparently knows no bounds): [hide="Reveal"]Where can his infamous exploits be read? Is there a specific thread you vividly recall him participating in? (I wanted to use Archive.org to peruse his inner thoughts, apparently the man is something of a legend in the eyes of quite a few)[/hide]
A member of the old old forum. But I think he had gone before I joined, so I have no idea what the fuss was all about, and I never saw any of his posts that I recall. @Banno and @Paul are the ones to ask.
In case you were curious, it was this thread what got me intrigued.
Also this post on this forum. I am loathe to admit I have a shockingly similar mindset and worldview as that particular OP as far as so-called "useless information" is concerned. :rofl:
And the height of Mount Everest. I remember that being a long discussion.
Huh. I hadn't seen that before.
Quoting Michael
I don't remember that one. It strikes me that the length of the coast of Norway is an even more difficult problem.
Funny, too. The whole package.
As an aside, perhaps, not unlike a woman, I simply enjoy gossip. What is the point of gossip anyway, I wonder? Could it be that it bestows an artificial sense of belonging (and therefore purpose) alongside power in a situation and over a given person or group of persons? Yes, that could be it. Or, perhaps not. Perhaps it's but sheer boredom. Who could say. :smile:
- Gossip facilitates learning from others when direct observation is not possible
- Gossip builds social connections and aligns social impressions and behavior
- Gossip increases cooperative group behavior in public goods games
Source: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982221004632
Might have been this one: https://web.archive.org/web/20160528113809/http://forums.philosophyforums.com/threads/ostensive-definition-74499-137.html
I think it was the longest discussion we had.
2016. I had forgotten old PF carried on for so long after this site went live.
Oh, I don't need an answer. Impish curiosity makes for many an otherwise welcome man unwanted. :smile:
How did we bring so many members from old PF to TPF? It was discussed there, and a few people put in the work to send emails.
It does seem unusually and artificially difficult to, yes.
There are these resources however, if it's that important to you:
https://help.archive.org/help/search-a-basic-guide/
https://help.archive.org/help/how-to-search-the-internet-archive/
Thanks, but @Michael may be along any minute now to help us out.
When did this place start?
October 2015
Greetings from the new owners
Moment of clarity
What are your thoughts on user signatures? I kind of like how there are none here, honestly.
Thanks
So much for that.
I dropped a note to Tiff to give her our new address.
Seems some of my dissenting voice got deleted. But at least this remains:
''baden511: You get on with what you do and we'll get on with what we do. I hope things work out for you. (@bcc, I think you took it the wrong way too).
P.S. I see my membership is under review. Feel free to do what you like. I was a sponsor and member of something that this site no longer is.''
'' we'll get on with what we do''... And we did.
''I hope things work out for you.'' ... But they didn't.
Still, being a member and member of staff at the previous incarnation was an honour, as it has been here. Kudos to @Jamal and @Paul
Onward.
It's like witnessing a caterpillar turn into a butterfly. Or something.
But can Jamal really do it? He's reasonable and certainly on par as far as philosophy goes. But tech-wise? I'd say there's a fair wager to be met.
"This place is already dead. Everything you see here will soon crumble away, to make room for something new. Isn't it wonderful!"
Yes, is this not the coldest and hardest therefore truest truth of the world we live in?
:cry:
I'll be able to send you an export of all your PMs.