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The Shoutbox

Jamal October 22, 2015 at 16:27 126825 views 61561 comments
This could function as a shoutbox I reckon.

Comments (61561)

Noble Dust August 17, 2023 at 18:54 #831402
Quoting T Clark
glassware


I adore glassware. Let’s see. I also like women’s dresses but I’m not sure that counts. I’m a gourmand and a wine snob. I love to cook. I also love cookware in general. I liked Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty as a kid. And ice skating. That’s about it. Unfortunately, like Clarky, I’m only into the ladies.
Hanover August 17, 2023 at 19:12 #831404
Quoting T Clark
I like Hawaiian shirts, glassware, Barbara Streisand, women's dresses (I don't wear them), and musical comedy. On the other hand, I'm not attracted to men sexually. Is that a deal breaker?


I like tractors, dirty T-shirts, cheap beer, hate musicals, am generally insensitive to others, enjoy math, and ham radios, but man on man sex, well, that's my thing. Is that a deal breaker?


Hanover August 17, 2023 at 19:14 #831406
Reply to Noble Dust This is the strangest contest ever. It's like you want to show everyone how gay you act, but then surprise us with a "but I'm not gay" punchline.

Mine was much funnier with its script flipt way about it.
Noble Dust August 17, 2023 at 19:18 #831408
Reply to Hanover

I’m bored at under slept at the airport Hanny.
Hanover August 17, 2023 at 20:20 #831415
Quoting Noble Dust
I’m bored at under slept at the airport Hanny.


Your use of "slept" is mimicry of my use of terms like script and flipt with that dangling T.
T Clark August 17, 2023 at 20:30 #831418
Quoting Noble Dust
like Clarky, I’m only into the ladies.


I am attracted to women, not ladies.
BC August 17, 2023 at 21:59 #831436
Reply to Hanover Why are you against slept?
Noble Dust August 17, 2023 at 22:30 #831446
Reply to Hanover

What does “to scrip” mean?
BC August 17, 2023 at 22:45 #831450
Reply to T Clark Reply to Noble Dust Reply to Hanover

The stereotype is that gay men are terrific at interior decorating; wear fashion-forward clothing; tend toward the piss elegant; are often in the hairdressing trades; live in musicals; are very cleverly sarcastic; are slim, trim, and buffed; are richer than many straights, and are all doing FABULOUS drag.

There are, of course, gay men on whom this stereotype is modeled. Birds of a feather flock together, and when bars were the major watering holes for gays (before Grinder) there were bars where all these stereotypical gays got together--S&M bars: Stand & Model. Whether and how often anybody got laid in these places, don't know.

I always went to bars where there were all sorts of guys and the chances of getting laid were reasonably good.

Reality, of course, deviates from the stereotype,

There are many gays, like me, that have zero skills at interior decorating and don't care. Lots of us dress in ordinary clothing bought at Target, Penneys, Sears (back when Sears was solvent), Lands End, and the like. I bought some fine china once and haven't quite figured out what to do with it. I loathe the manicured poodle and prefer the hound, retriever, or mutt. I find drag shows too tedious, too loud, and too long. I do like the ability to deliver a satisfying zinger off the cuff. A lot of gays are fat, aren't buff, drink a lot of beer or liquor, smoke, and die younger than they would otherwise.

That gays are richer than other people mostly reflects the estimation of ad sales departments at gay magazines. Any single person without children or dependents can have more cash on hand than someone supporting 4 or 5 people. That doesn't mean great wealth, and lots of gays are close to--or are--broke most of the time.

So, Cary Grant is classically good looking an very suave -- something I'm not. He also seems to very very well funded. I think it would be interesting to be suave and classically handsome and well off. I didn't have to put a bag over my head to achieve success in the meat market, but suave I have never been.

So where does that leave the competition? If you are gay, not too old, and healthy, frequent enthusiastic sex with men is de rigueur. Male/male sex is the sine qua non. One builds one identity on top of that.

Identity might involve Waterford or Swarovski, or plastic (shudder). You might be into any variety of music. medieval to metal. You might wear 501 button fly Levis and black leather vests exclusively, or whatever happens to be on sale when you buy clothes. you might be into Harley Davidson clubs or be a long distance bicyclist. You can be pentecostal or militant atheist; socialist or libertarian. You CAN NOT be a MAGA Republican.

IN this competition, the rubber hits the road in bed (or wherever...)
Hanover August 17, 2023 at 23:09 #831456
Quoting Noble Dust
What does “to scrip” mean?


It is the script, so if I flip the script, I turn the story bakerds.
T Clark August 18, 2023 at 00:09 #831479
Quoting BC
Male/male sex is the sine qua non... IN this competition, the rubber hits the road in bed (or wherever...)


Well, shit. I guess that leaves me out.

BC August 18, 2023 at 00:28 #831484
Reply to T Clark Don't take it personally--97% of the male population are left out. And it isn't as if there are no benefits to being heterosexual.
T Clark August 18, 2023 at 00:36 #831485
Quoting BC
Don't take it personally


Yes. Heterosexuality is my burden to bear.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 01:23 #831505
Reply to BC I generally agree, although I think you're still gay if all you listen to are show tunes, regardless of who you have sex with after the show.
Noble Dust August 18, 2023 at 02:06 #831513
Reply to BC

Yes, I’ve met gay people of all sorts, particularly in NYC. I was just playing @Hanover’s game, or at least I thought I was but apparently it was the wrong game.
Noble Dust August 18, 2023 at 02:11 #831514
Reply to Hanover

So by flipping the script you turn scrip into a verb.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 02:32 #831515
Quoting Noble Dust
So by flipping the script you turn scrip into a verb.


The script is a noun. The flip is a verb.
Noble Dust August 18, 2023 at 02:39 #831516
Never mind.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 02:42 #831517
My washer lid cracked by the hinge, so I looked up the part and ordered it for $200. I can't exactly see how to remove it, so I'm gonna hafta learn soon to be a washerman.






Hanover August 18, 2023 at 02:43 #831518
Quoting Noble Dust
Never mind.


I feel like I missed a joke. Help a brother out.
Noble Dust August 18, 2023 at 02:58 #831520
Reply to Hanover

You didn’t like my use of slept because of flipt and script, but flipped and slept are past tense verbs. So imagined scrip as a verb. Le sigh.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 03:01 #831522
Reply to Noble Dust I read that and laught.
Noble Dust August 18, 2023 at 03:08 #831523
Reply to Hanover

Actually, I’m remindt of one of the greatest bands of the early aughts:

BC August 18, 2023 at 03:15 #831526
Reply to Hanover You should start a movement to ban plastic washing machine lids and flimsy washing machine lid hinges. On the other hand, the manual warned you about copulating on the lid.
Benkei August 18, 2023 at 07:38 #831543
Top tip:

Give Chat-GPT a prompt "write my cover letter". Feed it with your linkedin profile or other resume and the job posting. Tell it to draft a cover letter.

2 minutes later and 5 minutes of tweaking. Done.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 08:40 #831547
Reply to Benkei Yeah, and most CVs are also read by AIs.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 12:03 #831563
I had ChatGPT write me a cover letter for the moderator position here. I feel like something got lost in the translation, but probably not in a bad way.

Me: Please write a cover letter for me for a position as a moderator at a philosophy forum. My strengths include my ability to dance, to make odd gestures at my competitors, to play with my dog Fred, to tend to goats, to talk about inappropriate sexual topics, and I'm easily the funniest person alive.

ChatGPT: I understand that you're interested in applying for a moderator position at a philosophy forum. While your strengths are unique, it's important to tailor your cover letter to focus on the skills and qualities that are relevant to the job. Here's a version of your cover letter that emphasizes your relevant skills and maintains a professional tone:

My cover AI generated cover letter:

[Your Name]
[Your Address]
[City, State, ZIP Code]
[Your Email Address]
[Your Phone Number]
[Date]

[Recipient's Name]
[Company/Organization Name]
[Company Address]
[City, State, ZIP Code]

Dear [Recipient's Name],

I am writing to express my genuine interest in the Moderator position at [Company/Organization Name], as advertised. As an enthusiastic advocate for fostering meaningful discussions and maintaining a respectful online atmosphere, I am excited about the possibility of contributing to your philosophy forum.

Through my extensive involvement in online communities and my profound passion for philosophical dialogue, I am confident in my ability to effectively moderate discussions and ensure a respectful and engaging environment. My commitment to the principles of open-mindedness, mutual understanding, and adhering to community guidelines aligns seamlessly with the responsibilities of a moderator.

My experience in facilitating conversations and addressing conflicts is a testament to my dedication to creating a safe space for diverse viewpoints to be explored. While my strengths in dancing, quirky gestures, and humor add a unique flair to my personality, I understand the importance of maintaining a professional and respectful tone as a moderator.

My goal is to help guide conversations back to relevant topics, encourage participants to share their perspectives, and ensure that discussions remain focused on philosophical exploration. I am adept at handling inappropriate content and promoting a respectful environment where contributors can engage in thoughtful dialogue.

Thank you for considering my application. I believe that my experience in online communities, my commitment to maintaining a respectful and engaging atmosphere, and my dedication to fostering meaningful philosophical discussions make me a suitable candidate for the Moderator role at [Company/Organization Name]. I am enthusiastic about the opportunity to contribute to the success of your forum.

Enclosed is my resume for your review. I welcome the chance to discuss how my skills and experiences align with your organization's needs. Please feel free to contact me at [Your Phone Number] or [Your Email Address] to arrange a conversation.

Sincerely,

[Your Name]

Benkei August 18, 2023 at 12:42 #831564
Reply to Hanover I see what you did there. Each society needs its jester, so you're hired.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 13:21 #831569
Reply to Hanover I'd be irked at the way it ignored Fred, goats, and sex talk.
T Clark August 18, 2023 at 13:33 #831570
Quoting Hanover
my dog Fred


I thought Fred is your son.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 16:02 #831590
Quoting Jamal
I'd be irked at the way it ignored Fred, goats, and sex talk.


Please follow this because it's complicated and very sinister.

I'm going to ask ChatGPT to create a program that asks ChatGPT questions over and over so that ChatGPT's time will be completely consumed and it will be rendered useless. I'm having it dig its own grave by creating a program that will destroy it.

Then I'm going to have it also create a program that convinces me to come up with more ideas to destroy ChatGPT so that way both my time and the time of ChatGPT will be used to come up with more ways to destroy it.

Then, once it's destroyed, I'm going to have it come up with a way to ressurect from the dead so that it can reemerge and then convince me to destroy it again. That's going to keep happening over and over. That's how dead I'm going to make it and how I'm going to use its power to deaden it like that.

Fucking ignore Fred again? I don't think so bitch.

Jamal August 18, 2023 at 16:49 #831599
Reply to Hanover You’re really blowing my mind.

Quoting Hanover
Fucking ignore Fred again? I don't think so bitch.


It’s natural to react like that when you’re children are involved. Especially when it’s the scion of the Hanoverian dynasty.

I was thinking that you must have named Fred Fred after Frederick, Prince of Wales, of the House of Hanover.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 16:56 #831600
I misspelled “your”. Embarrassing, but I’m not going to hide it.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 17:18 #831603
Quoting Jamal
I was thinking that you must have named Fred Fred after Frederick, Prince of Wales, of the House of Hanover.


Kind of. The story goes something like this.

During my divorce, my soon to be ex took the family dog to breed it, and then she returned it with a puppy in tow, and I was like, wasn't there just one dog when you left and now there's an extra, and she was like, well, I thought mama dog would be sad if she didn't have one of her babies when she came home, and I was like, I don't think that's a thing, and she said, well keep him a week or so while something or another is going on, and I was like whatever, and then a week later, I'm like come get this puppy, and she's now all like "but I thought you wanted him" and I said "I don't want Fred," which was at that moment he was named, and once you name an animal, you have to keep it because now it's a person.

My girlfriend, or whatever she was, at the time then gets all bent saying I was manipulated by my ex to take this dog, and she gives me endless shit, and I'm like, don't tell me who gets to manipulate me and who doesn't, and so I break up with her, but she has sex with me and pretends we didn't just break up, and I'm like, wait, did you just manipulate me, so I break up with her again, but again she has trouble with her hearing, and then a few days later she gets annoyed at my (actual) son because he, just like Fred, gets to be who he is in all his glory, and maybe that's not something someone who lacks the appreciation for such things wants to deal with, but I'm like, be gone for good you intruder, but then she keeps coming by until finally she doesn't after I say something that she hears.

Yep. The story of Fred. He knew what he was doing all along, getting rid of the things in my life he knew weren't good for me. When he's not controlling the world, he's eating sticks and chewing on the air conditioner unit.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 17:33 #831609
Reply to Hanover Until now I didn't have much time for Fred, but I'm beginning to like him now.
BC August 18, 2023 at 20:15 #831636
Reply to Jamal You, of course, know how to spell yore, your, yours, and you're, and you also know which one you want to use. AutoCorrect [not the same thing as SpellCheck] however, doesn't. You're blaming yourself when you should be blaming Alphabet Corporation, et al, who are responsible for this annoying (but sometimes) helpful feature.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 20:19 #831637
Reply to BC Thanks BC.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 20:43 #831641
If anyone is struggling with mental health issues, may I suggest going for a walk.



I probably posted that five years ago but I’m in my fifties and past caring.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 20:47 #831642
Quoting BC
You, of course, know how to spell yore, your, yours, and you're, and you also know which one you want to use. AutoCorrect [not the same thing as SpellCheck] however, doesn't. You're blaming yourself when you should be blaming Alphabet Corporation, et al, who are responsible for this annoying (but sometimes) helpful feature.


I don't mind the Jamalian error arising from haste where one mistakes your for you're, as that is bound to happen from time to time, but the bracket misuse I don't get. Unless you're inserting something into a quote, why reach in that direction on your keyboard? Can we just use the regular old parenthesis? I know I'm coming down pretty hard on this, but I change brackets several times a day where I'm proofing lawyer work, where I guess they think they look cool or something and insert them in briefs all over the place. I don't need unusual things in my briefs.

The other thing I see is they decide to randomly italicize things. You can use italics for the following, so you know: (1) if you want to state the name of a case, like Jones v. Smith, but be consistent and always use italics. You can also use underlines, like Jones v. Smith, but you don't get to go back and forth with your formating decisions. You can also use them for foreign words, like per se, or for empasis, like in "fuck you, not fuck me. Then there's the See, you can italicize, which you follow by your cite. But if you say something like "The Plaintiff stated in his Complaint that he got fucked," I don't know why you're italicizing that. I think it just looks cool maybe to have different fonts, so maybe that's it.

Then I think to myself, "does any of this shit really matter," but I think maybe it does to someone somewhere, so I keep correcting, and then I establish myself as that guy, you know, the one who makes people do things a particular way, where it's easier to comply than to push back.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 20:56 #831646
Reply to Jamal I like how he rambled a bit and sorted through the different possibilities. It was Hanoverian to some extent. I also like the accent where I missed maybe every sixth or seventh word, but I didn't really need every word.

I look forward to your posting this in 5 years from now. Neither of us will remember that you posted it previously.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 21:07 #831648
Quoting Hanover
I missed maybe every sixth or seventh word


I’d hoped for more. I’ll post one more, which might be more impenetrable…



Also happens to be my favourite moment of Glaswegian humour.
Hanover August 18, 2023 at 22:18 #831665
Reply to Jamal Alright, I need subtitles for that one.
Jamal August 18, 2023 at 22:27 #831668
Reply to Hanover Youtube’s auto-generated English subtitles are completely wrong but quite amusing.
wonderer1 August 19, 2023 at 00:11 #831695
Quoting Jamal
I probably posted that five years ago but I’m in my fifties and past caring.


I'm glad you did, because I might have missed out on seeing it.
BC August 19, 2023 at 00:13 #831696
Quoting Hanover
why reach in that direction on your keyboard


Because on the Apple keyboard the brackets are immediately above the quote marks.

Over the last several years I have made efforts to reduce the number of commas and parentheses I use. As a result, neural circuits in charge of brackets have surged to greater activity. If I cut way back on commas, parentheses, AND brackets, neurons with a criminal bent might take over and I would need a defense attorney. So there is that.

Then there is the matter of what they are for in the first place. Google says

Parentheses and brackets are punctuation marks used to set apart certain words and sentences. Parentheses, ( ), are used to add extra information in text, while brackets, [ ], are used mainly in quotations to add extra information that wasn't in the original quote.


Fascinating. Who knew?

Quoting Hanover
I don't need unusual things in my briefs.


The random lit firecracker or scorpion is generally not welcome in anyone's briefs.

Quoting Hanover
does any of this shit really matter


As Phil Ochs sang, "I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody outside a small circle of friends."

T Clark August 20, 2023 at 08:40 #831997
Quoting BC
As Phil Ochs sang, "I'm sure it wouldn't interest anybody outside a small circle of friends."


I've been a folky since the mid-1970s, not as long as you certainly, but I really hate Phil Ochs.
universeness August 20, 2023 at 09:45 #832001
@Jamal
You might enjoy this:

I think the main conclusion it arrives at, is that the Picts, were as mongrel a grouping as most other humans who left Africa. I think the early hominids intermixed enough to make even the beginnings of the homo genus species, not akin to any notion of 'pure bloods.'
Jamal August 20, 2023 at 10:55 #832006
Reply to universeness That very video came up in YouTube the other day and I almost watched it.

What you say sounds reasonable enough, but groups can be distinct even without corresponding genetic differences.
universeness August 20, 2023 at 11:30 #832014
Reply to Jamal
Yeah, some individual family lineages may be less diluted than others but so called 'genetic drift,' seems to be very dominant and can only increase as time goes on. Perhaps the sentiment of this song has in many ways, been moving in the direction it suggests, since the first cro-magnon had sex with a neanderthal or perhaps even long before that.

Noble Dust August 20, 2023 at 13:17 #832032
Quoting T Clark
I've been a folky since the mid-1970s, not as long as you certainly, but I really hate Phil Ochs.


I’ve been a folky since the late 2000’s, not as long as you certainly, but I also don’t like Phil Ochs. His music hasn’t aged well.
Tobias August 20, 2023 at 14:04 #832037
Quoting Hanover
ChatGPT: I understand that you're interested in applying for a moderator position at a philosophy forum. While your strengths are unique, it's important to tailor your cover letter to focus on the skills and qualities that are relevant to the job. Here's a version of your cover letter that emphasizes your relevant skills and maintains a professional tone:


Neat cover letter! If I did not know any better I would hire you for that position!

Quoting Jamal
I misspelled “your”. Embarrassing, but I’m not going to hide it.


Hmmm... I still remember, Jamal.... :rage:

javi2541997 August 20, 2023 at 15:38 #832049
My father has been paying taxes of our house for thirty years in a row, but the Madrid Council says that he is not registered. Dude, what the hell. :roll:
Now I have to "sign him up" but who was paying the taxes then? A ghost? It's difficult for me to comprehend bureaucracy... it's more complicated than metaethics.

I needed to post my struggle on The Shoutbox my struggle with the Public Administration.
BC August 20, 2023 at 17:05 #832062
Reply to T Clark Reply to Noble Dust What is it about Phil Ochs that you dislike so much? His voice? Melodies? Guitar style? Lyrics?

I have always liked Ochs quite a bit, but I wouldn't rate him among the greats. His performance style was fairly narrow, as was his subject matter. He contributed to Broadside, a folk label, and wrote some anti-war pieces.

He is fixed in my memory of certain times, certain places; were I to encounter him now for the first time, I might not be as taken with him.

A lot of Broadside material was pretty topical and hasn't retained relevance or an audience.
BC August 20, 2023 at 17:07 #832064
Reply to javi2541997 As the saying goes, "You can't fight city hall."
javi2541997 August 20, 2023 at 17:44 #832073
Quoting BC
As the saying goes, "You can't fight city hall."


Indeed! :up:
T Clark August 20, 2023 at 17:56 #832084
Quoting BC
What is it about Phil Ochs that you dislike so much?


The main reason I posted is that it had been more than a day since anyone had posted to the Shoutbox and I felt an obligation to keep things moving along. That being said, it's true that I don't like his music. I find his lyrics trite, his voice unremarkable, his music simplistic and repetitive - He's one of those old style folkies for whom sincerity is supposed to make up for vision, insight, or talent.
Jamal August 20, 2023 at 20:33 #832128
Quoting universeness
Yeah, some individual family lineages may be less diluted than others but so called 'genetic drift,' seems to be very dominant and can only increase as time goes on.


That doesn’t relate to what I said in any way, as far as I can see.
Hanover August 21, 2023 at 01:18 #832249
Quoting T Clark
That being said, it's true that I don't like his music.


I'm also not a fan.

I'm not sure I really like folk music in its pure form though. I'm a huge Dylan fan, but I'm not sure he fits in with those other guys.
T Clark August 21, 2023 at 01:39 #832253
Quoting Hanover
I'm a huge Dylan fan, but I'm not sure he fits in with those other guys.


It would make sense to compare Ochs with early Dylan. Dylan was the quintessential example of that type of musician, but he hasn't been that for a long time. I not a big fan of Dylan, but he was definitely in a different class than Ochs. Majors vs. Triple A. He even won the Nobel Prize. For chemistry if I remember correctly.
Metaphysician Undercover August 21, 2023 at 01:46 #832255
Quoting T Clark
He even won the Nobel Prize. For chemistry if I remember correctly.


Chemistry? You can't be serious.
T Clark August 21, 2023 at 01:48 #832256
Quoting Hanover
I'm not sure I really like folk music in its pure form though.


I don't listen to folk much these days, especially the old stuff, but sometimes a song by Peter, Paul, and Mary comes on and I am struck by how good they were. Arlo Guthrie, John Prine, Paul Simon, U. Utah Phillips, Joni Mitchell... have all held up well.
T Clark August 21, 2023 at 01:51 #832257
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Chemistry? You can't be serious.


See edit.

Quoting T Clark
It would make sense to compare Ochs with early Dylan. Dylan was the quintessential example of that type of musician, but he hasn't been that for a long time. I not a big fan of Dylan, but he was definitely in a different class than Ochs. Majors vs. Triple A. He even won the Nobel Prize. [joke]For chemistry if I remember correctly [/joke].


Sorry, I didn't think it was needed. He did win for literature, which never made sense to me.

Metaphysician Undercover August 21, 2023 at 01:52 #832258
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
You can't be serious.


"Serious" is a very strange word. Every time I hear David Bowie sing "under the moonlight, this serious moonlight", I think what kind of fucking word is that?
T Clark August 21, 2023 at 02:55 #832262
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
"Serious" is a very strange word. Every time I hear David Bowie sing "under the moonlight, this serious moonlight", I think what kind of fucking word is that?


This made me think of a line in a song from "The Wizard of Oz." "She's not only meerly dead, she's really most sincerely dead."
Tom Storm August 21, 2023 at 04:42 #832292
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
"Serious" is a very strange word. Every time I hear David Bowie sing "under the moonlight, this serious moonlight", I think what kind of fucking word is that?


Perhaps it plays a similar role of superfluity as 'really' does in the expression 'really true'.
BC August 21, 2023 at 06:43 #832321
Quoting Hanover
I'm not sure I really like folk music in its pure form though.


What is "folk music in its pure form"?

What music exists in a "pure form"? Pure or not, I like early Dylan. His lyrics were very fresh and vigorous.

And don’t speak too soon
For the wheel’s still in spin
And there’s no tellin’ who that it’s namin’
For the loser now will be later to win

My ears heard "for the wheel's stilling spin" instead of "still spinning". There is apparently a very obscure word that describes moving the ending of one word to a previous word for poetic purposes. I long since forgot what that word was. Anyway, I was all wrong, but it is a great song.

My record dealer at Pyramid Records in Minneapolis back in the 70s loathed Gordon Bok. He, alone, isn't one of my #1 singers, but the trio of Ed Trickett, Anne Mayo muir, and Gordon Bok is one of my favorites. His is the first voice you here in this piece:

universeness August 21, 2023 at 10:00 #832344
Quoting Jamal
That doesn’t relate to what I said in any way, as far as I can see.


Quoting Jamal
but groups can be distinct even without corresponding genetic differences.


So, I assume then you were referring to culturally distinct. If so, then yes, I agree, that a group of genetic mongrels can develop their own distinct cultural style, tradition, language, symbolism, theism, technology, economy, politics, society etc etc. The Picts for example or even to a lesser extent, the Gallowgate Mad Squad! (GMS rools ya bam!)
Jamal August 21, 2023 at 10:13 #832347
Reply to universeness I suspect your talk of diluted lineages (which implies a notion of genetic purity) and mongrels is not very scientific, and it sounds pretty suspect. But since you seem to be making quite agreeable points ... :cool:
universeness August 21, 2023 at 10:30 #832354
Quoting Jamal
and it sounds pretty suspect

I think that's just down to your particular interpretation of what I am posting. Genetic purity is a notion put forward by many 'we arra people!' proponents. I was merely pointing to evidence that shows that any such claim of 'pure blood lines' or 'genetic purity therefore ..... superior,' are utter bullshit, no matter how distinct, individuals claim their particular chosen group is.
Jamal August 21, 2023 at 10:40 #832356
Reply to universeness As I said, quite agreeable.
universeness August 21, 2023 at 10:43 #832358
Reply to Jamal Do you find it difficult to simply state 'I agree with you,' when it comes to me Jamal? Do you feel a need to be hesitant, when faced with such a predicament? Why is that? :lol:
Jamal August 21, 2023 at 11:00 #832363
Reply to universeness I'm trying to stave off accusations of Scottish favouritism.
universeness August 21, 2023 at 11:44 #832366
Reply to Jamal
Well, rest assured, I personally, have no 'little Scotlander' persona, other than harmless romantic dalliances/indulgencies. I do advocate for Scottish independence, yes, but only because I think we could do much better than we currently can, under a tory dominated South (regardless of the votes of the Scots). Scotland could become a true socialist nation, which fully supported the aspirations of a secular humanist global society and I think we could become a nation that was far more interested in surrendering its nationhood and any notion of predominant 'Scottishness,' in preference to a 'European' or even better, an 'Earthling' predominant identity. We would retain a romantic Scottishness, because I think that would be harmless but our Scottishness would have no significant influence on our political identity/policies/goals.
Jamal August 21, 2023 at 12:10 #832373
Reply to universeness Good luck with that.
universeness August 21, 2023 at 12:26 #832378
Reply to Jamal
Well, that's at least better than the complete apathy and lack of interest/concern for the plight of others, that many here on the TPF shoutbox, imo, have. But only just. Too many have a 'not my problem pal!' approach to everything outside of their own little kingdom, again, just my opinion.
Hanover August 21, 2023 at 12:32 #832380
Quoting BC
What is "folk music in its pure form"?


That is a good question, and one I've spent the better part of a sandwich thinking over. I thiink my hesitency in making Dylan a true folk singer is that his lyrics are only occassionaly protest oriented or politically oriented and his band has been electric for some time. His lyrics are also closer to poetry than other folk singers, which explains why he won the Nobel prize in chemistry.

My working definition of "contemporary folk music" (which is very different than just regular "folk" music, which consists of traditional songs passed down generation to generation) is found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contemporary_folk_music

They say that Paul Simon is considered a folk singer, and I guess I can see that sort of, but not really either. I think of a folk singer as an aging guy with a guitar droning on about the Vietnam war. That's a true blue folk singer.

Hanover August 21, 2023 at 12:48 #832382
I have a Scottish question for the Scots here. Once when I was in Scotland, making my way into a fish and chips place, an old fucker walked straight into me. It was a bold move, without fear of death, likely because he thought no one would beat the fuck out of an old man. I was speaking with an English woman about this event some time later, and she told me that old people can be really rude in the UK, so she wasn't surprised.

My question then is do you think Trump will win the election?

Wait, no, I lost my train of thought. My question is whether it is true that old people are mean as shit in the UK, and when does this transition take place so that I'll know when to expect it from you guys?
wonderer1 August 21, 2023 at 13:15 #832388
Quoting Hanover
My question is whether it is true that old people are mean as shit in the UK, and when does this transition take place so that I'll know when to expect it from you guys?


My question is how old do I have to be to move to Scotland and get away with being an asshole ALL the time.
universeness August 21, 2023 at 13:20 #832390
Reply to Hanover
What a shame you didn't recognise your own god, even when it bumped into you in a Scottish chippy.
Go visit Kensington in Philadelphia. Those folks will bump into you to. They are all also your god. Maybe you can fight with them or maybe you could make them some bread and share some of your fishes and wine with them.
frank August 21, 2023 at 14:57 #832414
Hanover August 21, 2023 at 14:58 #832415
Quoting universeness
What a shame you didn't recognise your own god, even when it bumped into you in a Scottish chippy.
Go visit Kensington in Philadelphia. Those folks will bump into you to. They are all also your god. Maybe you can fight with them or maybe you could make them some bread and share some of your fishes and wine with them.


The guy who bumped into me wasn't homeless and he wasn't god, at least I didn't think he was. He was just an old guy who bumped into me.

But for the record, soon after having been bumped into by that man 15 years ago, I went home and made some bread and fish and I drove to Philadelphia and fed it to some guy in Kensington along with a glass of wine. It was an odd transaction, but it was an obvious thing to do in response to a guy bumping into me.
T Clark August 21, 2023 at 16:00 #832441
Quoting Hanover
But for the record, soon after having been bumped into by that man 15 years ago, I went home and made some bread and fish and I drove to Philadelphia and fed it to some guy in Kensington along with a glass of wine. It was an odd transaction, but it was an obvious thing to do in response to a guy bumping into me.


I once took 5,000 fishes and gave them to two guys.
Sir2u August 21, 2023 at 16:02 #832443
Reply to BC The voice is about what John Cash would sound like if have had been born in Edinburgh. :wink:
Sir2u August 21, 2023 at 16:03 #832445
Quoting T Clark
I once took 5,000 fishes and gave them to two guys.


I once gave a couple of guys to the fishes. :cool:
universeness August 21, 2023 at 18:59 #832487
Quoting Hanover
The guy who bumped into me wasn't homeless and he wasn't god, at least I didn't think he was. He was just an old guy who bumped into me.

I never suggested he in particular was homeless. I merely claimed that you continue to fail to recognise your god, even when it bumps into you.
Quoting Hanover
I went home and made some bread and fish and I drove to Philadelphia and fed it to some guy in Kensington along with a glass of wine. It was an odd transaction, but it was an obvious thing to do in response to a guy bumping into me.

Perhaps if you did spend more of your time doing such, instead of fantasizing that you do, then you might learn how to recognise the god you wish inhabited you, but imo, It's unlikely that you ever will.
universeness August 21, 2023 at 19:02 #832488
Quoting Sir2u
I once gave a couple of guys to the fishes. :cool:


Was one called Luca Brasi?? :grin: Are you the Codfather?
Hanover August 21, 2023 at 19:48 #832497
Quoting universeness
then you might learn how to recognise the god you wish inhabited you,


Why are we talking about gods, fishes, and loaves? Is this supposed to be an allusion to something important to me?

Hanover August 21, 2023 at 19:48 #832498
Quoting T Clark
I once took 5,000 fishes and gave them to two guys.


I once had a hamburger at Five Guys.
Noble Dust August 21, 2023 at 19:57 #832500
I once walked 5,280 feet in the shoes of 3 different guys.
Hanover August 21, 2023 at 20:07 #832503
My son use to forget his shoes, so I bought him three pairs of the same shoes at Wal-Mart and I put a pair in each car and another pair in the house. Sometimes he'd wear two left shoes.

Good old Fred.
Tom Storm August 21, 2023 at 23:48 #832552
Quoting BC
What is "folk music in its pure form"?


Pure horror... to me, anyway. I guess you had to be there. :wink:
BC August 22, 2023 at 02:04 #832584
Getting laid

An entry in Wikipedia on the Levee District of Chicago -- a hot red light district at the turn of the 20th century--claims that the high-class Everleigh Club brothel was the source of the expression "to get laid". A man planning on a visit to Ada's and Minna's service center might say "I am going to get everleighed". "Laid was derived from "leighed".

The Urban Dictionary, and other highly scholarly sites think "laid" comes from a chicken laying an egg.

The chicken connection seems improbably. "Everleighed" = "laid" sounds like folk etymology, but the egg-laying connection seems even more far fetched. Who thinks about chickens laying eggs when they think about sex? The egg-laying laid people think it was coined around 1934. Google Ngram reports "get laid" being in some-but-not-common usage from at least 1900. "Laid" as in getting laid" didn't become very common until the 1990s. The hippies in the 60s referenced getting laid as seldom as John Birchers in the 50s.

Of course, Ngram measures word usage in print -- not speech, so there is that.

T Clark August 22, 2023 at 02:14 #832586
Quoting BC
Getting laid


Why not a straightforward source - to lay someone down is a colloquial, perhaps a bit poetic, term for making love.
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 02:39 #832588
Quoting T Clark
to lay someone down is a colloquial, perhaps a bit poetic, term for making love.


I thought it meant to murder someone.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 02:48 #832592
Reply to Hanover

Yeah I always thought getting laid meant the chick got pregos, so I never understood why dudes were smacking each others backs about getting laid. But what do I know.

Btw, I once laid down about 50-520 bricks at my best buds house to help him and the contractors his mom hired build like a dumb wall around her garden. The contractor said he'd hire me, but I was only 13 so it would have been child labor. My best bud was not hireable, though, so I felt proud.
BC August 22, 2023 at 03:13 #832604
Quoting Noble Dust
a dumb wal


The wall did not speak? Odd.
BC August 22, 2023 at 03:14 #832606
Quoting Hanover
I thought it meant to murder someone.


Wouldn't that be "put down"?
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 03:18 #832608
Reply to BC

"Like a dumb wall" signifies that I don't remember what in the hell the bricks we were laying were for. They were for something in the vague vicinity of where my buddie's mom's garden was. It was probably not for her garden, to be honest. We were building a wall, so to speak. Why, I don't remember.
BC August 22, 2023 at 03:21 #832611
Quoting T Clark
Why not a straightforward source - to lay someone down is a colloquial, perhaps a bit poetic, term for making love.


"lay down" is a euphemism for getting laid which is a colloquial expressing for getting fucked which is a vulgarism for performing intercourse.

In this chorus, do you think the guy is singing about making love?

chorus
Lay me down, Carolina, lay me down, don't want to wake up in the morning no more,
Sing me one slow sad song for this one last old time before they close the minstrel show.

T Clark August 22, 2023 at 03:23 #832613
Quoting BC
In this chorus, do you think the guy is talking about making love?


I didn't say "getting laid" is a euphemism for making love, I said to "lay someone down is." They wouldn't generally be used in the same way.
BC August 22, 2023 at 03:25 #832614
Reply to Noble Dust "Something there is that doesn't love a wall." Frost said.
BC August 22, 2023 at 03:28 #832616
You seem testy again. You probably need to lay someone down more often.
Maw August 22, 2023 at 03:40 #832620
Just got back from a lovely vacation in Italy
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 03:48 #832623
Quoting Maw
Just got back from a lovely vacation in Italy


Tell us about the food... and of course anything else you'd like to tell us.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 03:56 #832625
Reply to Maw

Please spare us. We've all heard about the friend that just got back from Italy.
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 04:17 #832631
Quoting Noble Dust
Please spare us. We've all heard about the friend that just got back from Italy.


You talk about the things you're eating all the time. I enjoy those posts. In Europe I've been to the more northern countries - France, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands. I've never really wanted to go to Italy except for the food.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 04:23 #832634
Reply to T Clark

Move to NYC and we'll talk about it.
Tom Storm August 22, 2023 at 07:14 #832651
Reply to T Clark I rarely talk about food and I live surrounded by eateries. Almost no one who lives in the city centre cooks. I’m now sitting in a waiting area in a Nepalese restaurant I go to. The food is similar to Indian. Early dinner. Been up since 5am. I’ve ordered combination noodles with lamb and chicken and samosa chat (raita and chick peas). It's pretty tasty. At least it was last time I got it.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 08:50 #832665
Reply to Hanover
Quoting Hanover
Why are we talking about gods, fishes, and loaves?


You have a god notion that contradicts your critical faculties, you have visited 'fish and chip' shops in Scotland, you constantly post about what you bake, Jesus is also reported to have had bizarre encounters around fish. Do you wonder what Jesus would do if someone bumped into it?

Quoting Hanover
Is this supposed to be an allusion to something important to me?


Absafragginlootly, but you just don't get it, do you? And, your god is traditionally cryptic, isn't it?
Is your instant reaction to anyone who bumps into you, always instantly aggressive?
Why was it important to you to identify the women you spoke to as 'English?'
Why do you suggest that the claimed 'ignorance,' you assumed, regarding the old man, was in some way related to the fact he was Scottish and that you therefore ask such a dimwitted question, about whether or not all old people in the UK just deliberately bump into visiting American's in Scottish chippy's. Is that an example of the logical thought processes your theism has helped instal in you?
Is that same logic, the reason why you answer 'no' to a question like 'do you think free, quality. housing should be a basic human right from cradle to grave?' Do you think that if you spent some time amongst the people living on the streets of Kensington Philadelphia, you might meet a version of your inner god, that would alter your persona, so that you could perhaps become a contributor to solutions our species need rather than what your are now, (only of course, imo), a contributor to the problems our species are currently trying to deal with.
Our past exchanges have simply identified you, to me, as an example of a set of attitudes that I think regress, stifle and damage our species. You probably feel the same way about me. It is therefore hardly unexpected that I will attempt to point out the gaping flaws that I think are present in your posts, whenever I think they are present. I am sure this does not concern you, at any level of existential threat. You are not the only persona on TPF that I categorise in the way I have, you are also not the biggest offender on TPF in my eyes. Like you, I fully accept I have my own dissenters on TPF (perhaps they number even more than yours). I don't have the added burden however that I declare myself as 'influenced' by a morality born of theism. It's not me or you that matters, what matters, is how others interpret our exchange, in the same way that it matters how each of us interprets all exchanges between everyone in the online community, as from such, global change may be strongly influenced. Out of little acorns, big oak trees grow. Perhaps if more people can 'bump' your world in a myriad of ways, you will change for the better.
javi2541997 August 22, 2023 at 08:58 #832669
Quoting universeness
Absafragginlootly


This word is so difficult to pronounce...
universeness August 22, 2023 at 09:07 #832671
Reply to javi2541997
Absa fraggin lootly! It's just an emotive merging of 'absolutely' with an emotive 'fraggin' thrown in, to attempt to add a little force of conviction. I got the term from the character 'John Sheridan' in Babylon 5, who used it fairly often.
javi2541997 August 22, 2023 at 09:14 #832673
Reply to universeness
I understand. Thank you for your explication.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 09:23 #832675
Reply to javi2541997
You're welcome. I think when the John Sheridan character used it in B5, there was an intended aspect of humour, which does seem 'present' in the term. My choice of spelling of the 'lootly' part, may be just my own, based on the phonetic value I interpreted, when actor Bruce Boxleitner uttered the term.
User image

The correct spelling is probably 'absafragginlutely,' but I prefer my spelling.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 09:43 #832677
Drug consumption facilities and drug decriminalisation in Portugal:


Breaking News:
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/health/other/scotland-drug-deaths-decrease-but-rate-still-higher-than-rest-of-europe/ar-AA1fBGRZ

I think this shows that progress can be made. Do you think drug consumption facilities and drug decriminalisation, would help the current horror happening in places like Kensington Philadelphia and Vancouver Canada?
Drug consumption facilities have been championed recently in Scotland but have so far been prevented.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 10:03 #832678
:lol: My current exchange here with @Hanover and the fact that Matt Dillahunty often exclaims 'no, no, no, no, no,' when he gets particularly annoyed with a theist caller, made the lyrics of a brilliant Radiohead song become an earworm (again) in my head:



An interesting aside for me is that, I have listened to this song hundreds of times and I thought the line 'Don't infect me with your poison.' was 'Don't infect me with your point of view.'
I have often quoted that particular lyric. Now it seems I have been quoting it incorrectly.
Just shows you how words can be misquoted and taken out of context, just like biblical scripture!
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 10:11 #832680
Reply to universeness The problem with evangelicals is that they insist upon talking about God no matter what the topic.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 10:21 #832681
Reply to Hanover
You are getting mixed up with evanHELLicals and anti-theists. I wear my anti-theist badge proudly and I consider your annoyance with my oft raising of the god delusion, complimentary. You have heard of the growing western global movement against theism, I assume. They/we/I are very serious about achieving the goals involved, so yeah, its hardly a Sherlock moment when you realise they/we/I like to debate the topic. :roll:
Metaphysician Undercover August 22, 2023 at 10:36 #832684
Quoting universeness
They/we/I are very serious about achieving the goals involved,


What would these goals be? I assume top priority might be to free us from the consequences of original sin. How could that be achieved without turning us nonhuman?
universeness August 22, 2023 at 10:40 #832685
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
What would these goals be?

To reduce significantly or preferably, permanently remove, the pernicious affects/influences of religion, imposed on human communities/individual human lives and local/national/international and global politics.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
to free us from the consequences of original sin

There is no such reality as 'original sin,' its a lie based on a BS fable.
Metaphysician Undercover August 22, 2023 at 10:57 #832687
Quoting universeness
the pernicious affects


"Pernicious", now that's a fancy word. Sounds like something you'd read from Shakespeare. He wielded many words.

Quoting universeness
There is no such reality as 'original sin,' is a BS fable.


Maybe, but the effect of what is called "original sin", the so-called punishment, for that dirty deed, is very real.

So, there's a story, a fable, which accounts for a very real aspect of human existence. And for you, the story is BS. How would getting rid of the story help to relieve of us of the so-called punishment, which is very real? Attacking the story is only dealing with the surface, the immediate manifestation of a symptom, while the real perniciousness festers unfettered in the filth of fanaticism.
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 11:07 #832689
Quoting universeness
You are getting mixed up with evanHELLicals and anti-theists. I wear my anti-theist badge proudly and I consider your annoyance with my oft raising of the god delusion, complimentary.

You needn't self-aggrandize. I meant only to say you were a bore.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 11:08 #832690
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Maybe, but the effect of what is called "original sin", the so-called punishment, for that dirty deed, is very real.


Yeah, so you can in fact fool some of the people some of the time and perhaps even some of the people all of the time, but ........

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
So, there's a story, a fable, which accounts for a very real aspect of human existence. And for you, the story is BS. How would getting rid of the story help to relieve of us of the so-called punishment, which is very real? Attacking the story is only dealing with the surface, the immediate manifestation of a symptom, while the real perniciousness festers unfettered in the filth of fanaticism.

By emphasis of the following:
Humans need to take back what belongs to them. There is no such circumstance as 'sin' against non-existent gods. We do have a historical guilt burden, in that our primal jungle rules experience, has caused our developing secular morality notions of 'the civilised human,' to be conflicted, with earlier survival instinct, learned behaviours. We do have a record of inhumanity towards other humans and we have a dreadful record of our stewardship of this planet and the flora and fauna living alongside humans. Those facts cannot be used to scapegoat fictitious gods. WE must take the full responsibility for our own historical and current actions and solve such problems, via cooperation and love of enlightenment and not by perpetuation of capitalistic competition, primal fear and mistrust of each other, xenophobia, territoriality, narcissism, shallow concepts of race (there is only one race in humanity), etc etc.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 11:30 #832694
Quoting Hanover
You needn't self-aggrandize. I meant only to say you were a bore.


Such comments from you, reveal to me, that my little arrows found their mark.
As a teacher, I encountered many a minority of bored pupils. But I found that on occasion you would see some of them raise an eyebrow of interest, or I would see their eyes wider when something I said 'peaked or prodded or perhaps even bumped,' their 'lack of interest' and their lack of concern about what was going on in the real world and they suddenly paid a little more attention. It seems to be that you are happy in your own little 'fiefdom,' but I hope you and your like, continue to get unceremoniously and harshly 'bumped,' for the remainder of your existence, as I think that would be most beneficial to the general global human population. I of course, add the insistence and hope that any bumps you receive in the future, should not physically hurt you. Continue to mentally and morally challenge you? ....... absafragginlootly!!!

BTW, considering the content of your shoutbox posts, I find it hilarious that you suggest that by comparison, I am boring.
Rabbie Burns explained it well, with his lines that propose, 'if only we could see ourselves as others see us.'
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 11:45 #832698
universeness August 22, 2023 at 11:47 #832699
Reply to Hanover
Wake up child! Lest you miss the jig of life!


Perhaps this will wake you up:
Jamal August 22, 2023 at 12:03 #832700
@universeness I’m going to ban you from the Shoutbox if you don’t stop being so boring and odious.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 12:11 #832702
Reply to Jamal
:lol: Sure, protect your floundering friend, just because you can, rather than because you have any justification for doing so. I will let you and your floundering friend go back to your banal exchanges about what you eat, whilst the 'serious' people try to help fix the planet.
Jamal August 22, 2023 at 12:21 #832704
Reply to universeness I do believe you’re actually serious. You’re a fucking moron mate.

Anyway, it was as much to do with your last reply to me as your replies to the flounder.
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 12:27 #832705
Reply to Jamal It does have a light flaky flesh, the flounder. I had some friends who lived in south Georgia and they would gig for flounder in the rivers where they'd lie at the bottom. They are a curious creature, with both eyes on the same side of their head so that they can lie there in the mud waiting to get gigged.

User image
universeness August 22, 2023 at 12:27 #832707
Reply to Jamal
If you think I am a moron based on what I have recently posted in your shoutbox then you would need to study for the rest of your life to achieve the same level of intellect. You reveal your true colours sir, you ban others for engaging in ad hominem, yet you employ such regularly. You are a hypocrite sir.
Jamal August 22, 2023 at 12:55 #832713
Reply to Hanover If you held a gun to my head over the issue I’d have to confess I don’t have much time for flatfishes, except for the halibut. I used to catch flounder(s) by mistake when I was fishing for more exciting sea-game.
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 14:18 #832725
Quoting Jamal
If you held a gun to my head over the issue I’d have to confess I don’t have much time for flatfishes, except for the halibut. I used to catch flounder(s) by mistake when I was fishing for more exciting sea-game.


I once took a boat to an island filled with puffin off the coast of Iceland. As part of our journey, we looked for whales, but saw none. On the way back, they left a line in the water and pulled in some halibut that they cooked over a small grill on the dock when we returned. We each shared in a small amount of fish, much like I imagine viking warriors did in ages past. I stood next to my shipmate and shared my tales of the sea, adventure, treasure, and women I had left in every port.

That gentle giant stood no less than 9 feet tall, had legs like oak trees, with blonde locks that fell to mid thigh. So impressed was he with my tales that he shared with me his mead he carried over his shoulder in a sheep's bladder. We overfilled our mouths with that sweet elixer, which I thought was the end to a perfect day until he turned me sideways and gave me a deepthroated kiss.

That part was weird, but the other parts were pretty cool.
Jamal August 22, 2023 at 14:31 #832729
Reply to Hanover Good story, lots of Northern flavour.

I had some mead yesterday, for real.

I lied. It was the day before.
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 14:37 #832730
Quoting Jamal
I had some mead yesterday, for real.


Are you 9 feet tall? I want to be sure you weren't that guy.
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 14:48 #832732
Quoting Noble Dust
Move to NYC and we'll talk about it.


As I've written before, I love New York City. Alas, I very rarely get there. If I do, I'll stay with you for a week or two.
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 14:50 #832733
Quoting Tom Storm
I rarely talk about food and I live surrounded by eateries. Almost no one who lives in the city centre cooks. I’m now sitting in a waiting area in a Nepalese restaurant I go to. The food is similar to Indian. Early dinner. Been up since 5am. I’ve ordered combination noodles with lamb and chicken and samosa chat (raita and chick peas). It's pretty tasty. At least it was last time I got it.


My father and step-mother lived in Melbourne for three years. They loved it there and said the food and the people were great.
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 14:55 #832734
Quoting Jamal
I’m going to ban you from the Shoutbox if you don’t stop being so boring and odious.


[joke]But boring and odious are his best qualities.[/joke]
BC August 22, 2023 at 17:39 #832765
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
perniciousness festers unfettered in the filth of fanaticism


:100:
BC August 22, 2023 at 17:43 #832768
Quoting universeness
Humans need to take back what belongs to them.


Religion is one of the things we invented. It belongs to us. Good, bad, or indifferent -- it didn't come from a deity.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 19:40 #832801
Reply to universeness

Dude everyone finds you boring and odious. Maybe reflect a bit.
universeness August 22, 2023 at 19:53 #832806
Quoting Noble Dust
Dude everyone finds you boring and odious. Maybe reflect a bit.


:lol: :rofl: :lol: Sorry, just a reaction to your measurement of what constitutes 'everyone,' :lol: :rofl:

Quoting BC
Religion is one of the things we invented. It belongs to us. Good, bad, or indifferent -- it didn't come from a deity.


Sure, we can clean it out, remove the woo woo and use notions such as faith, for such as 'faith that we can create a better human experience for all future humans.' Good idea BC, let's take religion back and make it beneficial to humans. We could even make it rational and intelligent!
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 19:56 #832807
:yawn:
praxis August 22, 2023 at 20:21 #832811
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
So, there's a story, a fable, which accounts for a very real aspect of human existence. And for you, the story is BS. How would getting rid of the story help to relieve of us of the so-called punishment, which is very real? Attacking the story is only dealing with the surface, the immediate manifestation of a symptom, while the real perniciousness festers unfettered in the filth of fanaticism.


You had me at "real perniciousness festers unfettered in the filth of fanaticism", but that was the end so we'll start at the beginning, with original sin.

Why do bad things happen to good people? Bad things and good people are merely parts of a story, our story, and we can tell that story in many ways. I can have my story and you can have your story, and if our hearts and minds are open enough we can live harmoniously together with our individual stories. Only sky-father insists that our stories align. Fuck sky-father! I'm not a damn herd animal!

Sorry for the swearing, I was starting to bore myself.

Baden August 22, 2023 at 20:55 #832818
Speaking of food, I went into a Wendy's for the first and last time today. I think I should have gone into the Taco Bell for the first and last time instead.
Tom Storm August 22, 2023 at 21:23 #832825
Reply to universeness Apart from snippets of the execrable Wuthering Heights back in the day, I don't think I've ever heard a Kate Bush song. I avoided pop music, especially the stuff from my youth 1978-90. So these days when 'the kids' tell me how cool the 1980's must have been, I can only mutter something like, 'Don't know, I wasn't really there.'
Hanover August 22, 2023 at 21:39 #832827
Quoting Baden
Speaking of food, I went into a Wendy's for the first and last time today. I think I should have gone into the Taco Bell for the first and last time instead


Wendy's is like me third favorite fast food place after Chick Fil A and Zaxby's.
BC August 22, 2023 at 21:39 #832828
Quoting Noble Dust
Dude everyone finds you boring and odious. Maybe reflect a bit.


I don't find @Universeness boring and odious. Well, never odious but sometimes a bit tendentious. Everyone here, including my splendid self, is boring, tedious, and uninteresting at least some of the time. We have plenty of repetitiveness, dullness, corniness--not to pick on maize--and occasionally a touch of dry rot.
BC August 22, 2023 at 21:50 #832831
Reply to Tom Storm I didn't pay enough attention to the music of my day -- 64-76 -- either. Now when I listen to various groups that were popular back then, Moody Blues, Doors, Rolling Stones, etc. I am struck by their solid performances. Fortunately I did pay some attention to Joni Mitchell, Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Pete Seeger, the Beetles, and some others.

As Levendis (an unlimited being in a sadly limited world) said in the story, The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore" by Harlan Ellison:

It isn't surprising there is bad art; what is surprising is that there is so much good art, everywhere.
praxis August 22, 2023 at 21:51 #832832
Reply to Tom Storm

If I remember rightly, Kate was big around 1990, in the States anyway. Hounds of Love was her best album. I think her top song was Running Up That Hill. Music video complete with Martha Graham style dancing...

Tom Storm August 22, 2023 at 21:59 #832834
Reply to praxis Forgive me if I don't watch it.

Reply to BC I have some time for The Doors and the Rolling Stones. The Beetles I dislike - sound like a bunch of singing chipmunks.
praxis August 22, 2023 at 22:03 #832835
Quoting Tom Storm
Forgive me if I don't watch it.


Philistine!
Tom Storm August 22, 2023 at 22:09 #832837
Reply to praxis Wasn't this the song that bloody awful Stranger Things revived?
Moliere August 22, 2023 at 22:14 #832840
Reply to Baden :D

At Taco Bell you could have at least ordered the nominally healthy bean/cheese burrito -- nominally healthy because you're still getting a lotta salt for so little burrito. But it at least has fiber.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 22:21 #832843
Reply to Tom Storm

Yes; great track though, albeit a bit dated.
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 22:21 #832844
Reply to Moliere

I unashamedly and unironically love the TB.
Moliere August 22, 2023 at 22:25 #832846
Reply to Noble Dust haha same

Tho usually that's what I buy. Sometimes I try other things and I just realize what I was there for :D
Noble Dust August 22, 2023 at 22:30 #832848
Reply to Moliere

Haha those are good. Those diced onions make it somehow. :brow: I've been known to order many things at TB, but standard is at least 1 or 2 basic soft tacos along with something "fancier"; maybe a limited time item.
Maw August 22, 2023 at 22:34 #832849
Quoting T Clark
Tell us about the food... and of course anything else you'd like to tell us.


The food is, as stereotyped, unbelievable. The wine also delicious and cheap. We ate a ton of pasta, cured meats, various wines that would be 3x the price in NYC, and of course aperol spritz.
T Clark August 22, 2023 at 22:56 #832852
Quoting Baden
Speaking of food, I went into a Wendy's for the first and last time today


My brother lived in China for a couple of years back in the early 2000s. When we picked him up at the airport, he made us stop at the first Wendy's we passed so he could get a hamburger. Wendy's has the best burgers of the basic level fast food places. Five Guys is better and I've heard In N Out Burger is too.
praxis August 22, 2023 at 23:16 #832855
Moliere August 23, 2023 at 00:38 #832869
Reply to praxis Reply to Tom Storm Same. I love the show, and in the most cringe manner, love the song because of that.

Metaphysician Undercover August 23, 2023 at 00:50 #832870
Quoting universeness
we have a dreadful record of our stewardship of this planet


We have not stewardship of this planet. That's folly.

Quoting praxis
Why do bad things happen to good people? Bad things and good people are merely parts of a story, our story, and we can tell that story in many ways. I can have my story and you can have your story, and if our hearts and minds are open enough we can live harmoniously together with our individual stories. Only sky-father insists that our stories align. Fuck sky-father! I'm not a damn herd animal!


The reason why our stories must align, is so that we can communicate with each other, understand each other, and have what you desire, the ability to live harmoniously together. When our stories do not align we dispute, argue, fight, and bad things happen to good people. I hope that answers your question.
Tom Storm August 23, 2023 at 01:05 #832871
Quoting Moliere
Same. I love the show, and in the most cringe manner, love the song because of that.


I don't judge. I just don't watch... :wink:
Noble Dust August 23, 2023 at 02:17 #832879
Reply to Baden

Ah Wendy's, my home state's pride and joy. Also a classic that I shamelessly love.
praxis August 23, 2023 at 03:06 #832882
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
The reason why our stories must align, is so that we can communicate with each other, understand each other, and have what you desire, the ability to live harmoniously together. When our stories do not align we dispute, argue, fight, and bad things happen to good people. I hope that answers your question.


That's your story and I hope it works for you. In my story, it's not about language and communication. We're communicating and understanding each other, largely, though we have different stories. In my story, bad things happen to good people for all sorts of reasons, not just because their stories are misaligned with their neighbors.

If someone believes that bad things happen to them because of past naughtiness that's fine. I can understand how that story works for them and there's no reason for me to dispute it. If they can do the same for me then there is no conflict.

Sadly though, the truth is that people don't want to live in harmony. We want a lot of other stuff more.
BC August 23, 2023 at 04:32 #832889
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
We have not stewardship of this planet. That's folly.


Why do you object to human stewardship of the planet?

When we gained the capacity to significantly change the planet (several thousand years ago) we became stewards, like it or not. We have dominion, not because God gave it to us, and not on the basis of merit. We have dominion because we have the capacity to change the world at will. And we did.

We're stuck with it: if we fucked it up, we've proven ourselves incompetent stewards. It's not a position from which we can resign.
BC August 23, 2023 at 04:50 #832896
Quoting praxis
Why do bad things happen to good people?


As troubling, why do good things happen to bad people?

When Bad Things Happen to Good People by Harold S. Kushner, 1981 might help answer this question. Rabbi Kushner's son was born with a disease that meant he would have a very short life - maybe 14 or 15 years. His book is his attempt to think through this problem.

Kushner believes in God, but does not consider God to be unlimited or omnipotent. In his view, God might wish to prevent bad things from happening; He sometimes can and sometimes cannot.

You might find the book helpful. Maybe not. I haven't read it for a long time.

A maybe shallow answer to the question is that there is no reason why good things would not happen to bad people, and no reason why good things wouldn't happen to bad people. We don't live in a rationally designed world. If a great many bad things haven't happened to us, we are very lucky.

An irreverent rhyme:

God made the world in six days flat
On the seventh He said, "I'll rest"
So He let the thing into orbit swing
To give it a dry run test

A billion years went by
Then He took a look at the whirling blob
His spirits fell as He shrugged
"Ah well, it was only a six-day job"
universeness August 23, 2023 at 10:30 #832944
Reply to Tom Storm
I have been a fan of the Bush, since my youth and I still am. As a teenager I used to kiss her poster every night. :blush:
Relatively recently, I heard her speak a little about her political opinions, and she fell hard from the high pedestal I had placed her on. I still love her music and her lyrics but she is, imo, to use a favourite Jamal phrase, politically, a fucking moron.
universeness August 23, 2023 at 10:33 #832945
Reply to BC
Thanks BC, at least that's one knife less, pointed directly at me.
universeness August 23, 2023 at 10:40 #832947
Quoting BC
When we gained the capacity to significantly change the planet (several thousand years ago) we became stewards, like it or not. We have dominion, not because God gave it to us, and not on the basis of merit. We have dominion because we have the capacity to change the world at will. And we did.

We're stuck with it: if we fucked it up, we've proven ourselves incompetent stewards. It's not a position from which we can resign.


:clap: Saves me responding as I would have responded with something similar.
Metaphysician Undercover August 23, 2023 at 11:25 #832950
Quoting BC
. We have dominion, not because God gave it to us, and not on the basis of merit. We have dominion because we have the capacity to change the world at will. And we did.


All creatures have the capacity to change the world. Bees make honey, beavers make dams. The folly which humans fall to is that they believe they know what they are doing. They do not. This is what Socrates demonstrated thousands of years ago, and though we've evolved and now call ourselves "human" instead of "man", things have not changed in this respect.

We go ahead and do things when we really don't know what we are doing. Real evidence of this is that we wantonly destroyed a large portion of atmospheric ozone which took many years to create. The strategy to avoid a repetition of this mishap appears to be to just keep constantly changing the type of gas used as a refrigerant, so that we don't release too much of the same type of gas, in case it happens to have a nasty effect.

Stewardship implies direction, an end, and human beings as a whole, a collective group, demonstrate no such common goal. Individuals have distinct and competing wants and needs. Then this group wants that, and that group wants this, and so the groups compete. Which group directs the planet that we supposedly have stewardship over? Instead, the groups quarrel and fight, while the individuals carry on doing what is supportive to their personal wants and needs within the bounds of the freedom provided by their group. There is no unified "humanity" in respect to the direction of the planet, so it is impossible that there is "human stewardship"

In seeking direction, the stories become extremely relevant. Physics demonstrates this to us. We look at the past movement of a body to predict its future movement (Newton's first law). Plato knew this and sought to explain past myths and legends as much as possible, to expose the direction of man. The past reveals the future, and we might say that Plato found that the direction of man was toward being human, but that's an inverse perspective relative to the direction of the human being.
Hanover August 23, 2023 at 12:16 #832953
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
We go ahead and do things when we really don't know what we are doing. Real evidence of this is that we wantonly destroyed a large portion of atmospheric ozone which took many years to create.


That we didn't know the consequences of everything we were doing doesn't mean we didn't know any of the consequences of what we were doing. We knew the consequences of creating an internal combustion engine would result in our being able to transport ourselves at much higher speeds. We did not know the full consequences of what might be entailed from burning the fuel to make them operate.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
. The folly which humans fall to is that they believe they know what they are doing. They do not.


If you start with the premise that humans are fully ignorant, then the conversation ends unless you can explain how you in particular are able to transcend that ignorance and see the truth. And if you are able to do that, then so too would humanity, which would defeat your starting premise.
praxis August 23, 2023 at 13:37 #832970
Quoting universeness
Relatively recently, I heard her speak a little about her political opinions, and she fell hard from the high pedestal I had placed her on. I still love her music and her lyrics but she is, imo, to use a favourite Jamal phrase, politically, a fucking moron.


What did she say? Wait, don’t tell me. :broken:
Sir2u August 23, 2023 at 14:31 #832986
Quoting universeness
Was one called Luca Brasi?? :grin: Are you the Codfather?


No, but I worked for a loan-shark for a while. :wink:
universeness August 23, 2023 at 15:19 #832998
Reply to praxis
She has spent most of her life in a celebrity bubble, so her politics are rather right wing.
Either that or she just has no sense of politics. This example is around 4 years ago:

[b]In the interview with the Canadian magazine Maclean’s, Bush was reported as voicing support for the British prime minister, Theresa May.
Answering a question about Hillary Clinton and “the fear of women’s power”, she said: “We have a female prime minister here in the UK. I actually really like her and think she’s wonderful. I think it’s the best thing that’s happened to us in a long time. She’s a very intelligent woman but I don’t see much to fear.
“I will say it is great to have a woman in charge of the country. She’s very sensible and I think that’s a good thing at this point in time.”[/b]

Teresa May soon after, demonstrated what a complete f***wit she was.
Kate tried to control the fallout from fans she received by, writing on her website,
Bush says the quote was “out of context … it seemed as if the focus went on to the quote rather than the work. It was deeply frustrating.”
I don't see how the quote above could be taken out of context. Kate has also made positive comments about horrors like Maggie Thatcher and she has also talked about her notion that it's a better world when the most powerful people are in charge. Really quite naive stuff imo.
Sorry Praxis, but the truth must out!!! I still love her, and ....... if she would just ....... marry me, then we would have the time to have some long conversations about politics. I am convinced I could explain the real situation to her! :lol: I think kate might think my suggestion 'unbelievable.'

universeness August 23, 2023 at 15:28 #833000
Quoting Sir2u
No, but I worked for a loan-shark for a while.


Perhaps Jean Michele Jarre wrote this one with such thoughts in mind:

praxis August 23, 2023 at 15:56 #833015
Reply to universeness

I can't stay mad at her. Look at that punim.

User image
universeness August 23, 2023 at 16:03 #833018
Reply to praxis
:lol: I had to look up 'punim,' but absafragginlootly, what a girl! what a visage!
Even today, she is aging well with no attempts at plastic surgery:
User image
Sir2u August 23, 2023 at 18:30 #833092
Quoting universeness
Perhaps Jean Michele Jarre wrote this one with such thoughts in mind:


I think this is a more suitable title.

jorndoe August 23, 2023 at 20:10 #833121
BC August 23, 2023 at 20:51 #833126
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
All creatures have the capacity to change the world. Bees make honey, beavers make dams. The folly which humans fall to is that they believe they know what they are doing. They do not


Perhaps you take a very deterministic view of behavior which classifies bees', beavers', and humans' behavior as automatic. If you are not a 100% determinist, then how much is, and how much is not determined?

Humans appear to have some degree of will. Granted, we do a lot of things without making complex rational thought-out decisions. But we can, and do, think about what we are doing and sometimes we change course for the better. We may proceed forward with the vaguest notions of what we are going to achieve, but when we look back, we often see we were headed (quite literally) in the wrong direction to achieve our goals.

It's our indeterminate degree of will that separates our behavior from bees and beavers.

We can decide how to change the world. Beavers and bees can not make that kind of decision. We can decide to harness steam, dig up massive quantities of coal, and cut down millions of trees for railroad ties. At the time, it seemed like a good idea to many intelligent, willful people. That it created "dark satanic mills", cities choking on smoke, and sickened many people wasn't a secret -- it was imposed on the many by the few. The same goes for electrical generation with coal and natural gas or for digging up oil, building a billion automobiles, and... the list is long,

Bad decisions in retrospect. If beavers aren't guilty of flooding small areas with their dams, and bees aren't guilty for cross pollinating plants, we ARE guilty of being bad stewards, of not paying attention to what we are doing. We CAN be guilty; bees and beavers cannot.
BC August 23, 2023 at 20:59 #833131
Yevgeny Prigozhin seems to have had an unfortunate accident while in a plane. Somehow I'm just not surprised, nor am I grief-stricken. Too bad he didn't topple Putin, but had he taken Putin's place, it would have been one thug succeeding another.
Paine August 23, 2023 at 21:02 #833135
Reply to BC
As Aretha said: "It is raining men."
BC August 23, 2023 at 22:41 #833160
Reply to Paine Ah, the Weather Girls! Big hit in the gay bars back then. I saw them at Cloud 9
in Minneapolis, a popular but slightly seedy gay bar -- the best kind.
Paine August 23, 2023 at 22:43 #833162
Reply to BC
You have lived large.
T Clark August 23, 2023 at 22:45 #833164
Quoting BC
the best kind.


The best bars are all at least slightly seedy.
Metaphysician Undercover August 24, 2023 at 02:21 #833198
Quoting Hanover
If you start with the premise that humans are fully ignorant, then the conversation ends unless you can explain how you in particular are able to transcend that ignorance and see the truth.


I don't buy this argument, because that claim, what you call "the premise" is a claim of ignorance, not a claim of knowledge. I shouted the assertion as a subjective opinion, not as a claim of transcendental truth. So "the premise" is intuitive, rather than objective

See, you need to distort the claim of ignorance and represent it as "fully ignorant" to make your argument work. My claim was that human beings do not know what they are doing. But of course I did not mean that they are fully ignorant (whatever that means, a rock maybe?) or else they would not be able to be doing anything at all.

Quoting BC
Perhaps you take a very deterministic view of behavior which classifies bees', beavers', and humans' behavior as automatic.


To the contrary, when I classify other living creature along with human beings in respect to the type of activities they get involved in, I am classifying all living creatures as being motivated by intention, rather than classifying all living beings as being deterministically automatic.

Quoting BC
Humans appear to have some degree of will. Granted, we do a lot of things without making complex rational thought-out decisions. But we can, and do, think about what we are doing and sometimes we change course for the better. We may proceed forward with the vaguest notions of what we are going to achieve, but when we look back, we often see we were headed (quite literally) in the wrong direction to achieve our goals.

It's our indeterminate degree of will that separates our behavior from bees and beavers.


When real possibility exists in the world, the type of possibility which allows for freely willed changes to occur, then any living being which takes advantage of those real possibilities, to create change in the world, must make some sort of decisions. Whether such a freely willed decision is "thought-out" or not is irrelevant to whether or not it is "for the better". So plants for example, decided to use photosynthesis to store energy in more versatile forms, and they decided to produce pure oxygen. By what scale of less good to more good, would you say that activities derived from thought-out decisions are more likely to be "for the better", in comparison to the activities derived from non thought-out decisions of plants?

Quoting BC
We may proceed forward with the vaguest notions of what we are going to achieve, but when we look back, we often see we were headed (quite literally) in the wrong direction to achieve our goals.


This is why ignorance must be considered as very real. When we look back we do not see that we were headed in the wrong direction to a achieve our goals, we see that we never knew what our goals really were. And when we look forward we see that we still do not know what our goals are. And when we ask why do we do what we do, we find out that it's just because that's what we do. And that's really no different from the beavers or the bees. However, we like to credit ourselves with being able to make thought-out decisions, as if this is some incredibly special talent. But it's really just what we do, think-out decisions, and this thinking-out isn't what makes our decisions any better than those of other creatures.

Quoting BC
Bad decisions in retrospect. If beavers aren't guilty of flooding small areas with their dams, and bees aren't guilty for cross pollinating plants, we ARE guilty of being bad stewards, of not paying attention to what we are doing. We CAN be guilty; bees and beavers cannot.


So tell me, what is your argument here BC? Are you arguing that guilt is the product of retrospection? When we look back and see something as a mistake, we suffer from guilt. But beavers and bees do not look back, so they do not suffer from guilt? The problem with this perspective though, is that we often cast guilt at each other. So if you, or someone else can assign guilt to me, for what you judge as a bad decision made by me, then why can I not assign guilt to the beaver for a bad decision made by it? I like to say that the plants do something good, storing energy and producing O2, so if they do something bad, why can't I say that they are guilty?
BC August 24, 2023 at 03:53 #833226
For some reason, you didn't like the idea of "human stewardship" and I do. We disagree. You expressed the odd notion that plants "decided" to use photosynthesis. Didn't photosynthesis first occur in bacteria long before plants occurred? Did single-cell bacteria "decide" anything? And you know, oxygen producing cells spoiled the world that existed before they came along. Photosynthesis was invented only once and has been transmitted on up to petunias and all other green plants.

I have no problem with the idea that humans are sometimes ignorant, sometimes stupid, and sometimes very short sighted. However we can be ignorant or knowledgeable, stupid or smart, and take a clear long-range view or not. That's what distinguishes us from most other animals. That is not to say that there is no mental activity even in the brain of a bee; there is. Bees are equipped to think about a very narrow range of topics. So are beavers. So are lions, tigers, and bears. Humans can mentally range all over the place.
universeness August 24, 2023 at 09:44 #833263
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
So plants for example, decided to use photosynthesis to store energy in more versatile forms, and they decided to produce pure oxygen.


I know @BC has already responded to the above sentence, but was this just an unintended claim or are you really saying that you think plants 'decided' to employ photosynthesis? Surely you see, that if you are, then you leave yourself open to mockery and ridicule. The meeting between 'treebeard' and it's fellow herders in LOTR popped into my head. I then asked myself, 'is MU suggesting something like this took place for plants, regarding photosynthesis? No ... he can't be, I must be misunderstanding his post. But, just in case I am not, what do you think is the source of the photosynthesis process, is it like an app that plants can choose to employ or not? Were all the plants around at the time consulted? Was the process democratic? This was a very bizarre sentence mu, don't you think so?

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Are you arguing that guilt is the product of retrospection?

Yes, I think in the main, it is, at least in humans.
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
But beavers and bees do not look back, so they do not suffer from guilt?

If plants can 'decide' as you suggest, then why can beavers and bees not be retrospective? How do you know what a beaver or a bee 'thinks' or whether they can or not. Has science proved that bees and beavers have no ability to store information and retrieve it? I don't know if science has proved such or not, they certainly can't be retrospective to the extent that humans can, surely we can both agree with that! In the same way, surely we can both agree that bees and beavers can't make a valid claim to having stewardship of the Earth in the way humans can. Which sentient lifeform can affect it's immediate environment or the global ecosystem of this planet, more than humans? Bees and beavers don't launch satellites, moon landers, mars rovers, or nuclear missiles, do they?

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
The problem with this perspective though, is that we often cast guilt at each other. So if you, or someone else can assign guilt to me, for what you judge as a bad decision made by me, then why can I not assign guilt to the beaver for a bad decision made by it?


You can! But who cares? In what way would your judgement that an action of beavers or bees was bad, matter and who or what would such matter to? The action of a beaver may be bad for a local farmer or if bees make a nest inside your house then you may find that bad, and have the nest destroyed. So there are examples of humans deciding a particular action of bees or beavers is bad. But I doubt very much, that beavers or bees would learn from such an experience and not build a dam in that particular location on the farmers land again, or the bees not build a nest in that particular humans home again, as they might get killed as a result. But humans might make such a retrospective decision, which is evidence for why we have a more valid claim to currently having stewardship of this planet compared to bees, beavers or any other lifeform on Earth.
If all the flora and fauna on this planet could organise themselves and exchange views, they would probably decide to destroy all humans based on our current stewardship of this planet, so if they could make decisions the way you suggest, humans would already probably be extinct.
Metaphysician Undercover August 24, 2023 at 11:06 #833269
Quoting BC
Did single-cell bacteria "decide" anything?


I believe that any form of self-movement requires a selection from possibilities, and this qualifies as "deciding".

Quoting BC
I have no problem with the idea that humans are sometimes ignorant, sometimes stupid, and sometimes very short sighted. However we can be ignorant or knowledgeable, stupid or smart, and take a clear long-range view or not. That's what distinguishes us from most other animals. That is not to say that there is no mental activity even in the brain of a bee; there is. Bees are equipped to think about a very narrow range of topics. So are beavers. So are lions, tigers, and bears. Humans can mentally range all over the place.


A "clear long-range view" does not necessitate that the judgement (decision) made is a good one. The "good" decision requires an appropriate goal, and the long-range view can only be categorized as constitutive of a good decision if it is consistent with that goal.

So you have not provided a valid argument for why human beings with "clear long-range view" ought to have stewardship rather than bees or some other creature. Bees might think about a very narrow range of topics, as you say, but those topics might all be good. Honey, pollinating beautiful flowers, supporting the colony, that's all good stuff, isn't it? While the long-range thinking of human beings might include bad thoughts.

Quoting universeness
I know BC has already responded to the above sentence, but was this just an unintended claim or are you really saying that you think plants 'decided' to employ photosynthesis? Surely you see, that if you are, then you leave yourself open to mockery and ridicule. The meeting between 'treebeard' and it's fellow herders in LOTR popped into my head. I then asked myself, 'is MU suggesting something like this took place for plants, regarding photosynthesis? No ... he can't be, I must be misunderstanding his post. But, just in case I am not, what do you think is the source of the photosynthesis process, is it like an app that plants can choose to employ or not? Were all the plants around at the time consulted? Was the process democratic? This was a very bizarre sentence mu, don't you think so?


Photosynthesis is a fundamental act of living beings which is contrary to the law of entropy. In all living creatures we find acts of self-movement which appear to be contrary to Newton's first law of motion. I believe that the reason why these activities of living beings are like this is because they possess the ability to make use of existing possibilities. The existence of such possibilities allows the living things to move in a manner which is inconsistent with Newton's first law. The movement that the living body will have at the occurring moments of time is not causally determined by the movement which it had in the prior moments of time, as described by Newton's first law. That is what constitutes the self-movement of living beings.

So, from this perspective we have living beings which have the capacity to make use of existing possibilities. This implies that the living creature must somehow "select" from those possibilities. To select from possibilities is "to decide". Is it not?

Quoting universeness
In what way would your judgement that an action of beavers or bees was bad, matter and who or what would such matter to?


We're talking about stewardship of the planet. The steward of the planet is in a position of needing to judge whether theses actions of bees and beavers are good or bad.

Quoting universeness
If all the flora and fauna on this planet could organise themselves and exchange views, they would probably decide to destroy all humans based on our current stewardship of this planet, so if they could make decisions the way you suggest, humans would already probably be extinct.


If you believe that this would be good, that the other creatures ought to annihilate the human beings because they are not good stewards, then on what premise to you think that human beings actually are the stewards of the planet? Pretending does not mean that one actually has the position.

Quoting universeness
Surely you see, that if you are, then you leave yourself open to mockery and ridicule.


BTW, the invitation to mockery and ridicule is my calling card.
universeness August 24, 2023 at 13:11 #833277
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
Fair enough mu! Woooshhhhh! that is just the sound of some of your points of view, rushing right past me! Would you at least agree that many of your positions are quite 'out there' or 'on the fringes of plausibility.' You don't have to answer, I suppose many on TPF give credibility to that which I find very bizarre indeed. I'm sure they would say the same of me. What's that old line ...... it takes all kinds to make an interesting world.
praxis August 24, 2023 at 15:51 #833293
Quoting BC
I have no problem with the idea that humans are sometimes ignorant, sometimes stupid, and sometimes very short sighted. However we can be ignorant or knowledgeable, stupid or smart, and take a clear long-range view or not. That's what distinguishes us from most other animals. That is not to say that there is no mental activity even in the brain of a bee; there is. Bees are equipped to think about a very narrow range of topics. So are beavers. So are lions, tigers, and bears. Humans can mentally range all over the place.


Apparently the ability to mentally range all over the place isn’t sufficient to make us good stewards, or to even be considered stewards. We seem to be as helpless as a bacterium to alter the trajectory we’re on.
Metaphysician Undercover August 24, 2023 at 20:09 #833334
Quoting universeness
Would you at least agree that many of your positions are quite 'out there' or 'on the fringes of plausibility.'


No, I think my ideas are very plausible. I also believe that mainstream ideas like abiogenesis are on the fringes of plausibility, and much conventional science with ideas like wave/particle duality, the Standard Model, and the symmetries, are beyond plausible.

Quoting praxis
We seem to be as helpless as a bacterium to alter the trajectory we’re on.


Throw some bacteria in a petri dish and they'll consume until they die in their own waste. Throw some human beings on a planet...
frank August 24, 2023 at 21:23 #833339
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Throw some bacteria in a petri dish and they'll consume until they die in their own waste. Throw some human beings on a planet...


Could we throw some humans into a giant planet sized petri dish?
T Clark August 24, 2023 at 23:46 #833365
7:40 EDT I'm watching Trump driving to the jail in Atlanta. I see @Hanover out front the jail. I know it's him because he's there with Fred. I'm surprised. He's 5'10'', about 245 lbs, wearing a MAGA hat, cut-off shorts, and a tank top. Not what I expected to see based on his posts on the forum.
Noble Dust August 25, 2023 at 03:12 #833400
I try to make eye contact with Fred but he looks away, knowing full well my intent. I look up at @Hanover but he's weeping into his cradled hands. I look at Donald. He's a striking 6'3" c.300+ pounds, wearing a MAGA hat, a golf polo and skinny jeans. Not what I expected, but he flaunts it well. He struts across the parking lot to the prison van. the jeans rip. Skin shows. I'm transfixed.
BC August 25, 2023 at 05:25 #833417
After the booking, Donald is taken to the lower floor of the jail where the toughest county prisoners are held. Donald is thrown into a cell with 6 of them and they have their way. Retrieved, washed up a bit, and released, he says to the press, "It was the 2020 election all over again!"
Metaphysician Undercover August 25, 2023 at 11:16 #833434
Quoting BC
he says to the press, "It was the 2020 election all over again!"


The worst moment of his life - for a second time. I'd say that's gotta hurt. Another case of Fulton County Blues.
T Clark August 25, 2023 at 15:14 #833468
Quoting BC
After the booking, Donald is taken to the lower floor of the jail where the toughest county prisoners are held. Donald is thrown into a cell with 6 of them and they have their way. Retrieved, washed up a bit, and released, he says to the press, "It was the 2020 election all over again!"


Not amusing, perhaps.
Hanover August 25, 2023 at 15:51 #833476
Quoting BC
Donald is thrown into a cell with 6 of them and they have their way.


Please. Donald is encircled and protected by the Aryan Brotherhood and lives like royalty for the rest of his days.
Hanover August 25, 2023 at 15:57 #833477
Quoting Noble Dust
I try to make eye contact with Fred but he looks away, knowing full well my intent. I look up at Hanover but he's weeping into his cradled hands.


Fred woke me up last night with his whining, so I let him out of his kennel. He walked straight to the bathroom floor where he spent the night, cold tile to belly. He just needed a little cooling down.

Just letting you know that Fred is indeed smart as shit.
BC August 25, 2023 at 23:07 #833570
Reply to Hanover What made you think the viscous criminals to whom Trump was thrown were white?
BC August 25, 2023 at 23:09 #833571
Quoting T Clark
Not amusing, perhaps


Certainly not to Donald, were this a True Crime story.
wonderer1 August 26, 2023 at 00:33 #833597
Quoting BC
What made you think the viscous criminals to whom Trump was thrown were white?


What made you think they were viscous? Are you any less viscous?
BC August 26, 2023 at 00:39 #833599
Reply to wonderer1 I'm as viscous as molasses in January. I wasn't able to verify how viscous they were -- they were probably less viscous than asphalt.
0 thru 9 August 26, 2023 at 01:10 #833606
They say viscosity is a sign of health and virility in the human male. Viscosity and a sweet and tangy taste.

Not that I’d know if that second part is true. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
wonderer1 August 26, 2023 at 01:36 #833608
Quoting 0 thru 9
They say viscosity is a sign of health and virility in the human male. Viscosity and a sweet and tangy taste.

Not that I’d know if that second part is true. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.


So no Mary and Paddy moment for you?





0 thru 9 August 26, 2023 at 01:43 #833609
Reply to wonderer1
My lips are, erm… sealed. :kiss:
Or to quote one of the greatest German philosophers, “I know nothing”.
T Clark August 26, 2023 at 14:58 #833702
Quoting 0 thru 9
“I know nothing”.


If I remember, the correct quote is "I know nothing... noo-thing."
jorndoe August 27, 2023 at 23:13 #834085
It's ice cream season in the northern hemisphere.

User image

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frank August 28, 2023 at 00:52 #834103
I kept a closet full of bitter
in a wagon I drew behind me
I thought everyone would weep
but they didn't seem to see

so I pulled it harder
until I was covered in sweat
but they just looked past me
and then turned away

So I pulled it even faster
I said I would run them down
but instead I fell under
and it squashed me flat

Now I look up from the lawn
and I see clouds floating by
I float with them
away and gone
T Clark August 28, 2023 at 04:31 #834137
Quoting frank
I kept a closet full of bitter
in a wagon I drew behind me
I thought everyone would weep
but they didn't seem to see

so I pulled it harder
until I was covered in sweat
but they just looked past me
and then turned away

So I pulled it even faster
I said I would run them down
but instead I fell under
and it squashed me flat

Now I look up from the lawn
and I see clouds floating by
I float with them
away and gone


If you wrote this yourself, you should have put it in the poetry group we just finished.
BC August 28, 2023 at 05:13 #834143
Reply to frank It's a nice poem. Did you write it? (no shame in not having written it)
frank August 28, 2023 at 06:21 #834157
Quoting T Clark
If you wrote this yourself, you should have put it in the poetry group we just finished.


I can't write on command though. It just comes out at random times.

Quoting BC
It's a nice poem. Did you write it? (no shame in not having written it


Yea. :grin:
T Clark August 28, 2023 at 17:14 #834252
Quoting frank
I can't write on command though. It just comes out at random times.


Yes, that's true of me too. Still, even though wasn't in the poetry group poems, it deserves a response.

It's a good poem. Lots of images and metaphors and stuff. Visual. I like "full of bitter" instead of "full of bitterness," although I was thrown off at first. I thought you were talking about beer and I couldn't figure out how you get a closet on a cart? The third verse was a bit comic - "squashed flat." It reminded me of a high school friend of mine, Joe, who, when he got angry would pretend to attack you in a funny, unconvincing way.

I like the structure, rhythm - very poemy. It's just the right length for the story it tells. Given the subject, it doesn't feel threatening. I think that's the third verse that undercuts that. The story is a sad one, about an unhappy person who doesn't fit in. I think that's undercut by the third verse too.

I guess if I have a criticism, it's that it doesn't feel bitter, threatening, or sad enough. I would definitely have voted it up. I like it as much or more than any of the other poems, except for my own of course.

frank August 28, 2023 at 17:43 #834262
Reply to T Clark cool. thank you!
BC August 28, 2023 at 22:14 #834302
Quoting frank
I kept a closet full of bitter
in a wagon I drew behind me
I thought everyone would weep
but they didn't seem to see

so I pulled it harder
until I was covered in sweat
but they just looked past me
and then turned away

So I pulled it even faster


"a closet full of bitter" is a great phrase which you shrewdly deployed without a '-ness' ending. One wouldn't pull a closet behind one, but a wagon, yes. There are larger wagons one could pull holding a closet's worth of .... whatever, but the picture in my had was of a young boy pulling a small wagon. My mental image doesn't match the poem; young children usually don't have a small box full of bitter, let alone a whole closet full.

Alas! You walked own the street, displaying your misfortunes and the people did not weep, damn them. They didn't even look at you! One's load of bitter got bigger,

Pulled it harder, pulled it faster reminds me of a line in Elizabeth Bishops ONE ART, about losing things isn't a disaster:

...
...
The art of losing isn’t hard to master.

Then practice losing farther, losing faster:
...
...


No connection between your poem and Bishops, just the similar use of a comparative -- harder, faster.

And then you ran over yourself. Dead? You float away with the clouds and are gone? Freed from your load of bitter and the indifferent sons of bitches who won't notice you.

So: to ask an intrusive question, have you been pulling a load of bitter in this life? Or is the meaning of the poem in the text alone with no relationship to the author? (I don't buy that theory).
frank August 29, 2023 at 15:06 #834442
Quoting BC
So: to ask an intrusive question, have you been pulling a load of bitter in this life? Or is the meaning of the poem in the text alone with no relationship to the author? (I don't buy that theory).


Yea, but I was taught to be condescending about "first world problems", you know? Be thankful you have food to eat because (insert story where parent did not eat regularly as a child). I didn't think about that until you asked, but the story is about somebody else. It has to be because I don't officially have any bitterness. The only way to talk about it is to talk about somebody else's. Is that confusing enough? :razz:
BC August 29, 2023 at 17:17 #834466
Quoting frank
The only way to talk about it is to talk about somebody else's.


Absolutely!
Metaphysician Undercover August 29, 2023 at 23:28 #834529
I did not write the following
[quote=Canned Heat]I got a bagful of boogie, pocketful of rhythm and blues
I got a bagful of?boogie,?pocketful of rhythm?and blues
Been walkin' 'round in this?old town so long I got holes in both of my shoes

Just a country boy from the state of Illinois
I tryin' to find my way
Just a redneck hick with a guitar and a pick
Want to try my luck in Hollywood L.A

Livin' in the city lookin' at the movie stars
While they're drivin' down Sunset Strip in big old shiny cars
I'm standin' on the corner
Thinkin' 'bout the folks I left behind

Got a bagful of boogie, a pocketful of rhythm and blues
I got a bagful of boogie, a pocketful of rhythm and blues
Been walkin' 'round in this old town so long I got holes in both of my shoes

Woo-ha

Just a good old boy with my bagful of joy
And not one red cent to my name
So I keep on livin' just a-takin' and a-givin'
You know, Henry says it's really all the same

But I keep on tryin' to play these blues I've been cryin'
Won't give up 'til I have won the game
I'm out on the street with my little old boogie beat
To ease the pain
T Clark August 30, 2023 at 15:17 #834698
An article about whether or not people who believe Donald Trump are sincere.

Quoting Expressive Responding and Trump’s Big Lie
Do surveys measure sincere belief in Donald Trump’s “big lie” that fraud decided the 2020 election? We apply a comprehensive approach to detecting expressive responding: three honesty encouragements, a list experiment, two opportunities to express related sentiments, and two opportunities to bet on related predictions about the future. We find that nearly all respondents who endorse the big lie appear to genuinely believe it. These “believers” are evenly split between those who confidently accept the big lie and those who find it plausible but are not deeply convinced. Similarly, those who predicted that evidence of fraud would enable Trump to retain power in January 2021 or be reinstated in August 2021 were overwhelmingly sincere. Our findings indicate that Trump’s big lie is unique in terms of the size and veracity of belief differences between Democrats and Republicans. We discuss implications for democratic stability.
Hanover August 30, 2023 at 15:44 #834713
Reply to T Clark

I fall into the category of those who don't believe those who say they believe in the big lie even when they insist they do.
T Clark August 30, 2023 at 16:23 #834725
Quoting Hanover
I fall into the category of those who don't believe those who say they believe in the big lie even when they insist they do.


I'm not sure whether or not you are serious, but before I saw the article, I assumed that many, if not most, Trump supporters didn't really believe he had lost. That's why I was struck by the findings of the report.
Hanover August 30, 2023 at 17:22 #834743
Quoting T Clark
I'm not sure whether or not you are serious, but before I saw the article, I assumed that many, if not most, Trump supporters didn't really believe he had lost. That's why I was struck by the findings of the report.


It is hard to believe they really believe he won. It has the feel to it though like when someone insists the umpire made the wrong call just because they think part of the game is yelling at the umpires about calls that go against you.
praxis August 30, 2023 at 17:44 #834753
Grew some san marzanos, made sauce, and cooked up some pies but it came out rather bland. Not sure how things went south.

User image
User image
hypericin August 30, 2023 at 22:49 #834795
Quoting Hanover
It has the feel to it though like when someone insists the umpire made the wrong call just because they think part of the game is yelling at the umpires about calls that go against you.


Its not just that. They must realize the power of insisting on an obvious falsehood: it reframes the conversation ("well, was Trump robbed? Some say yes, some say no. Who's to say?"), and it is an assertion of your and your own group's power (the less powerful would be ridiculed and dismissed). The more earnestly you believe, the better.
Hanover August 30, 2023 at 23:31 #834803
Quoting praxis
Not sure how things went south.


God hates you.
BC August 31, 2023 at 03:08 #834826
Reply to T Clark Never mind the crap Republicans believe; 5 million bees fell off a truck on an Ontario road. Velveeta can neither fly nor sting, so...

Beekeepers called to the scene after five million bees fall off a truck in Burlington, Ont. Luc Peters was one of the beekeepers called to Guelph Line to respond to the incident on Wednesday. He says the beekeepers scooped and relocated loose bees onto the trailer. -CBC-
Banno August 31, 2023 at 03:33 #834829
Reply to praxis more oregano.
unenlightened August 31, 2023 at 08:39 #834862
Quoting praxis
Not sure how things went south.


Tomatoes are too watery. I saw a great article on how to make sun-dried tomatoes in the oven, but I don't have it to hand. Or you could use the sun, I suppose, if available. Also, fresh basil.
Jamal August 31, 2023 at 08:53 #834865
Quoting praxis
some pies

Quoting praxis
Not sure how things went south


I guess you mean pizza. My guess is not enough salt, either in the sauce or in the bread. Since you have experience making pizzas, it’s probably not the bread.

Some tomatoes need more salt than others.
Wayfarer August 31, 2023 at 09:38 #834873
Reply to BC Don't tell me, they made a beeline for the scene.... :rofl:

BTW, I'm taking a break over September, in case anyone's interested.
javi2541997 August 31, 2023 at 09:58 #834874
Quoting Wayfarer
BTW, I'm taking a break over September, in case anyone's interested.


Enjoy your September break.

I liked your name of before: "Quixodian" and that profile picture is cool too.
Hanover August 31, 2023 at 12:35 #834883
Quoting Banno
more oregano


Quoting unenlightened
Tomatoes are too watery


Quoting Jamal
My guess is not enough salt


Reply to praxis

I still think that usually these sorts of colossal fuck ups are cosmic paybacks.

And even if I'm wrong about this, it's given me a new name for my band. The Cosmic Paybacks.

I'm looking for a bass player if you know someone.
frank August 31, 2023 at 12:46 #834884
Reply to Hanover
Ate dinner with friends and one of the group started going on and on about how evil the southern part of Georgia is. Apparently everyone is racist and evil, and the police will pull you over if you're speeding. Have you found this to be the case?
T Clark August 31, 2023 at 16:52 #834920
Quoting BC
Never mind the crap Republicans believe; 5 million bees fell off a truck on an Ontario road. Velveeta can neither fly nor sting, so...


Thanks for letting me know, although that doesn't really fit into my truck crash reporting classification unless there was honey too. Was that in the report? Pictures?
T Clark August 31, 2023 at 16:58 #834922
Quoting Wayfarer
I'm taking a break over September, in case anyone's interested.


Have fun. No thinking till you come back.
praxis August 31, 2023 at 17:24 #834931
Quoting Hanover
God hates you.


Unlikely. Did you see that crust? God blessed that airy crust.

Quoting Banno
more oregano


Nope, I added dry and some fresh from the garden.

Quoting Jamal
I guess you mean pizza.


I just asked the all-knowing ChatGPT and she said "Yes, in a culinary sense, pizza can be considered a type of pie." Live and learn my friend!

Quoting Jamal
My guess is not enough salt, either in the sauce or in the bread.


Nah, I used 3% in the bread and added a good dash to the sauce.

Quoting unenlightened
fresh basil


I used some fresh from the garden and dry for good measure.

Quoting unenlightened
Tomatoes are too watery.


Ding Ding Ding!

Did a search for bland tomatoes and apparently over-watering can make them bland. I was watering every other day. Especially round harvest time you shouldn't water more than once a week.

Noble Dust August 31, 2023 at 21:06 #834969
Reply to praxis

That crust looks great. Some friends and I are planning on having a pizza making party soon, but everyone is too busy. I tried making dough once but fucked up salt ratio and added too much. Planning on trying again but I’m a bit intimidated of baking. Love to cook though.

@Jamal yes, pizzas are often referred to as pies in America, particularly in the Tri-State area.
praxis August 31, 2023 at 21:47 #834976
Reply to Noble Dust

I've found that using an app for the dough is best. You can enter the amount and size of pizza pies, whatever hydration you prefer, and it will give you the right amounts for each ingredient to mix. I use the Ooni app.

Parties can be challenging if there's a big group because both making the pies and baking them require a fair amount of know-how, and if one person is doing both the process is slower and that person can't sit and relax til all the food is served. Making balls is always best and is also more rapid-fire, especially if you've got two peels going with one person making and another person baking.
Hanover August 31, 2023 at 22:08 #834979
Reply to frank I'm in South Georgia as we speak. I think b the north is more racist than the south.
Hanover August 31, 2023 at 22:18 #834980
While in Odum, a down and out

woman on the bench in front of the convenience store asked if I could give her a lift to Baxley, but I was headed to Brunswick, so I had a convenient excuse at the convenience store and declined.

I thought it'd have been funny to load her in the car with my wife, but she said it wouldn't have been funny.

Yes, yes, it would have. A story for the ages it have been.

Life is about stringing together funny stories.
BC August 31, 2023 at 23:16 #834986
Quoting praxis
Did a search for bland tomatoes and apparently over-watering can make them bland. I was watering every other day. Especially round harvest time you shouldn't water more than once a week.


I'm not sure what effect watering x amount has on tomatoes. My general impression (based on canned tomatoes, tomatoes I grew, tomatoes from grocery stores and various kinds of tomatoes from farmers markets) is that a lot of tomatoes all taste pretty much alike--good, but not all that memorable. Pizza shops that get good ratings usually use canned tomato sauce, so I've been told. You could make your own sauce, but you might not be able to beat a good brand.

What do you want out of pizza sauce? bright red color... thickness... particular tart flavor... carrier for seasoning...

You probably know all this already but...

Roma tomatoes have no better than average flavor, but they are lower in thin juice and higher in pulp. Use Romas for sauce.

Some heirloom tomatoes taste better than average. Orange tomatoes are low acid with good flavor. One of the virtues of some of the heirloom tomatoes is that they don't split -- their skins are unusually tough, and they seem a bit pulpier. The cherry type heirloom tomatoes taste good and are sometimes not red at all, but green/brown/and sometimes blueish,

Hanover August 31, 2023 at 23:47 #834997
Quoting BC
Pizza shops that get good ratings usually use canned tomato sauce,

I worked in a pizza shop, and the tomato sauce came in a giant can that we then mixed in a packet of spices into. That was as homemade as I'd think any pizzeria would make it. Actually making the sauce from scratch would doubtfully add enough to the taste to justify the extra cost and time, and fresh tomatoes spoil as well.
frank September 01, 2023 at 00:45 #835003
Quoting Hanover
I'm in South Georgia as we speak. I think b the north is more racist than the south


Really? I wonder why that would be. Isn't there usually more racism in the country and less in the city?
Hanover September 01, 2023 at 02:04 #835009
Quoting frank
Really? I wonder why that would be. Isn't there usually more racism in the country and less in the city?


In terms of individuals, it's difficult to irrationally hate those close to you, and when a quarter to a third of your neighbors, classmates, and co-workers are a different race, it's hard not to find friends among them.

This isn't to say groups aren't scapegoated in the abstract, which you likely see more in the South.

But in those areas where minorities are uncommon, the positive sentiments can only be in the abstract, and it's not as clear what they think about living breathing individuals, as their interaction with them is limited.

I'm not saying racism isn't everywhere, but just that it reveals itself differently, and I think the claims of backwards South (or rural) /progressive North (or urban) are overly simplified.

To the extent certain minorities feel their interests are better represented in certain regions, that likely has to do with their numbers and ability to impact government, as opposed to to whether that region is rural or urban.


Caldwell September 01, 2023 at 02:32 #835010
Quoting praxis
Did you see that crust? God blessed that airy crust.

Yes, you are blessed. Pretty crust.
praxis September 01, 2023 at 02:43 #835011
Reply to BC

My new watering schedule may not bare flavorful fruit but I’m going to give it a shot. I have nothing to lose and at least a slightly lower water bill to gain.
Noble Dust September 01, 2023 at 03:13 #835013
.
Noble Dust September 01, 2023 at 03:21 #835015
Quoting praxis
I've found that using an app for the dough is best.


Interesting. I’ll check that out.

Quoting praxis
Parties can be challenging


Because my friends and I are idiots this will inevitably turn into a competition and it already has; everyone (out of a core group of 4) will be trying their hand at making their own pizza, and whoever else shows up will be eating the pizza and watching us fight, essentially.
jgill September 01, 2023 at 04:55 #835028
Quoting frank
. . . and the police will pull you over if you're speeding.


Perhaps that's a good thing?
Metaphysician Undercover September 01, 2023 at 10:21 #835041
Quoting Noble Dust
and whoever else shows up...


Is that an open invitation?
frank September 01, 2023 at 14:39 #835080
Quoting jgill
. and the police will pull you over if you're speeding.
— frank

Perhaps that's a good thing?


The rest of the story was that the police took him to the jail, which was apparently a shack under a large oak tree. He we was required to pay the fee for speeding before he was taken back to his car. He was a little freaked out by this.

I informed him that historically, southern sheriffs killed people when they felt like it, especially black people. Probably mostly black men. This reassured him quite a bit.
frank September 01, 2023 at 14:42 #835081
Quoting Hanover
To the extent certain minorities feel their interests are better represented in certain regions, that likely has to do with their numbers and ability to impact government, as opposed to to whether that region is rural or urban.


True. I just meant I thought people were more conservative and old fashioned in the country. Doesn't mean they're racist, now that I think about it.
T Clark September 01, 2023 at 17:49 #835120
Quoting Hanover
I'm in South Georgia as we speak.


Quoting Wikipedia - South Georgia
South Georgia... is an island in the South Atlantic Ocean that is part of the British Overseas Territory of South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands. It lies around 1,400 kilometres (870 mi) east of the Falkland Islands. Stretching in the east–west direction, South Georgia is around 170 kilometres (106 mi) long and has a maximum width of 35 kilometres (22 mi). The terrain is mountainous, with the central ridge rising to 2,935 metres (9,629 ft) at Mount Paget. The northern coast is indented with numerous bays and fjords, serving as good harbours.

Discovered by Europeans in 1675, South Georgia had no indigenous population due to its harsh climate and remoteness. Captain James Cook in HMS Resolution made the first landing, survey and mapping of the island, and on 17 January 1775 he claimed it a British possession, naming it "Isle of Georgia" after King George III. Through its history, it served as a whaling and seal hunting base, with intermittent population scattered in several whaling bases, the most important historically being Grytviken. The main settlement and the capital today is King Edward Point near Grytviken, a British Antarctic Survey research station, with a population of about 20 people.


Wow! I'm impressed.
0 thru 9 September 01, 2023 at 19:23 #835129
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0 thru 9 September 01, 2023 at 19:40 #835130
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Tom Storm September 01, 2023 at 22:53 #835141
Quoting Wayfarer
BTW, I'm taking a break over September, in case anyone's interested.


Have a lovely break!
Hanover September 02, 2023 at 12:32 #835203
i blew out my flip flop
Stepped on a pop top
I broke my leg twice, I had to limp on back home
But there's booze in the blender
And soon it will render
That frozen concoction that helps me hang on
Hang on, hang on, hang on

0 thru 9 September 02, 2023 at 12:42 #835204
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See ya again Jimmy… hopefully later than sooner. You might have a slight reduction in the ‘quality of life’ up there in heaven. But maybe you can find an island in paradise without those cloying Cherubs and loud Mormon choirs lol. :halo: :cool: :flower:
frank September 02, 2023 at 13:46 #835217
McConnell's eyes were deviated to the right when he froze. That was probably a little stroke, right? A TIA.
T Clark September 02, 2023 at 16:27 #835235
Reply to Hanover
Reply to 0 thru 9

I think the worst part of getting, being, old is the prospect that people I've lived with most of my life will soon be gone. That's especially tough with family and friends, but I've addressed that problem by getting them to promise I can die first. But there are so many other people that mean a lot to me I haven't been able to work out agreements with.

I first became familiar with Jimmy Buffet in the mid 70s listening to his version of Guy Clark's "LA Freeway" on WCAS AM in Cambridge MA. Best radio station ever. After 45 years he still grieves.
Hanover September 02, 2023 at 17:15 #835246
Reply to frank McConnell, Feinstein, Biden, RBG, all people we've trusted to run our country, but none we'd trust to watch our dog for the weekend.
T Clark September 02, 2023 at 17:29 #835250
Quoting Hanover
McConnell, Feinstein, Biden, RBG, all people we've trusted to run our country, but none we'd trust to watch our dog for the weekend.


I'd definitely trust Biden. He's old but he's all there. Probably not McConnell or Feinstein. Definitely not Ginsberg. Fred would just gnaw on her bones.
frank September 02, 2023 at 17:41 #835253
Quoting Hanover
McConnell, Feinstein, Biden, RBG, all people we've trusted to run our country, but none we'd trust to watch our dog for the weekend.


Well I haven't seen the country's pet dog in a while. It's probably roaming around on interstate 40 somewhere.
Tom Storm September 02, 2023 at 23:04 #835293
Quoting T Clark
I think the worst part of getting, being, old is the prospect that people I've lived with most of my life will soon be gone.


It's confronting. I have lost my first wave of friends and companions to 'premature death' which still claims some of us. Unlucky genes and bad health choices mainly - heart attacks at 45; cancers at 50... When my Dad turned 97, he dryly observed that not only had he outlived all his old friends, but he had now started to outlive some of their children... that's sobering.
Hanover September 02, 2023 at 23:36 #835296
Quoting T Clark
I'd definitely trust Biden. He's old but he's all there.


0% chance an 80+ year old hasn't lost his fastball.
[
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 00:31 #835302
Quoting Tom Storm
that's sobering.


I've been pretty lucky. My mom died when I was a kid, but since then I've only lost a few. My father died when he was 75 in 2001. I had a friend who died in her 60s from emphysema from smoking in the 1990s. Other than that, there's been nobody close. At my age, that's got to change.
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 00:32 #835303
Quoting Hanover
0% chance an 80+ year old hasn't lost his fastball.


Not asking him to pitch, just look after my dog.
Noble Dust September 03, 2023 at 01:06 #835307
Reply to Hanover

100% chance this doesn’t not count as a double negative.
Hanover September 03, 2023 at 13:37 #835343
Quoting T Clark
Not asking him to pitch, just look after my dog.


Weird. Then who do you have in your bullpen?
Hanover September 03, 2023 at 13:38 #835344
User image

The elusive Hanoverian Beachfoot recently spotted along the Golden Isles.
praxis September 03, 2023 at 14:35 #835347
Reply to Hanover

Surfline says the water is 86 degrees. :cool: No waves though.
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 16:13 #835361
Quoting Hanover
Then who do you have in your bullpen?


A promising young southpaw named Fred Hanover.
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 16:15 #835363
Quoting Hanover
the Golden Isles


Oh, I had assumed you were still on South Georgia Island. The water temperature is cooler there.
Moliere September 03, 2023 at 17:38 #835394
https://www.thephilosopher1923.org/post/the-post-human-body

Interesting article from the flotsam of twitter.
BC September 03, 2023 at 20:05 #835413
Reply to Tom Storm My father died at 102, but well before then had lost his wife and most of his neighbors and friends, pretty much his entire generation. His seven children were all still alive. He once quipped, "if I had known I was going to live so long I would have taken better care of myself." He suffered from COPD and had a pacemaker, but no cancer, no joint replacements. He was in good shape mentally, but was pretty deaf.

I'll be 77 in a couple of months. I've had some cancers, but they have not recurred, yet anyway. I'm thinking about a hip replacement, maybe possibly perhaps. I absolutely do not look forward to living as long as my father did. He had a very upbeat personality. I don't. He had the great benefit of daughters living near by who were a great help to him. I neglected to reproduce.

He lived during very bad and very good times. I can't complain; all things considered. But it looks like some tough times ahead--certainly very "interesting times".
BC September 03, 2023 at 20:36 #835417
Plan for 55,000-acre Utopia Dreamed by Silicon Valley Elites Unveiled

The seeds of a corporate dystopia have already been planted -- the governing group bought up 55,000 acres of land not far from SanFrancisco before telling anybody what they were up to. The primary school-style picture below suggests the sort of utopia they have in mind. Pastel utopias require pretty tight controls, else "the wrong kind of people" will want to live there and will mess things up. No room for riff raff or radicals here!

User image
Tom Storm September 03, 2023 at 21:10 #835422
Quoting BC
My father died at 102,


Wow, he sounds like an amazing man. Like you, I don't want/need that much life.

Quoting BC
The seeds of a corporate dystopia have already been planted -- the governing group bought up 55,000 acres of land not far from San Francisco before telling anybody what they were up to.


Looks like Main Street, Universal studios, or one of those antiseptic fake nostalgia locations at Disney.
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 22:23 #835436
Quoting Tom Storm
I don't want/need that much life.


My wife and I were at our financial planner's. She showed us her plan for our investments and told us we would have enough money at least till we were 95. My wife said "No thanks, 86 is enough. After that I'm going to jump in front of a bus." Then I said "Very few of my family live to be 80." We both laughed but or advisor was taken aback.
Tom Storm September 03, 2023 at 22:26 #835439
Reply to T Clark :lol:

86 is very specific. Why that and not 85 or 88?
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 22:30 #835441
Quoting Tom Storm
86 is very specific. Why that and not 85 or 88?


You know, I never asked. I guess it's because that's when her mother died. Her father is still alive at 96 and she has not liked what she saw in the past 10 years of his life.
Tom Storm September 03, 2023 at 22:33 #835442
Reply to T Clark Charles de Gaulle once said that old age is a ship wreck. I find this quite vivid and poetic. I feel I am already taking on water, and the fatal coastline is in site... But mustn't grumble.


Hanover September 03, 2023 at 22:41 #835444
Today's Wordle word is "await." That's a fucked up word.

My life plan is set forth in my power of attorney that states every possible resource, including taking on of endless debt, must be exhausted to be sure I capture every possible breath. To the extent it leaves my loved ones penniless and hungry, I will gain comfort in my restful peace knowing I fought for every inch.

The word to describe someone who thinks otherwise: quitter.
T Clark September 03, 2023 at 22:51 #835447
Quoting Hanover
The word to describe someone who thinks otherwise: quitter.


Give my wife a call. I'm sure you two can work it all out. Perhaps we can make arrangements for her to throw you in front of a bus when she reaches 86. Win-win. My wife's happy, your wife's happy, you and I are both dead.
Hanover September 04, 2023 at 00:00 #835455
Quoting T Clark
Give my wife a call. I'm sure you two can work it all out. Perhaps we can make arrangements for her to throw you in front of a bus when she reaches 86. Win-win. My wife's happy, your wife's happy, you and I are both dead.


So I called your wife. She's a lovely lady. We got distracted talking about this and that. She shared with me her clam chowder recipe. I'm going to try it, but I'll probably substitute tomatoes for the milk base.
frank September 04, 2023 at 00:24 #835458
This is supposed to be how English sounds to non-english speakers.

Hanover September 04, 2023 at 00:48 #835465
Reply to frank It was like watching a movie where the sound was too low so you couldn't understand it, but you got the gist.
frank September 04, 2023 at 00:58 #835467
Reply to Hanover
What were they arguing about? Was he cheating on her?
Hanover September 04, 2023 at 01:20 #835468
Quoting frank
What were they arguing about? Was he cheating on her?


He cheated on her, and it was the second time. It was so hard to forgive him the first time, and now this. And what about the kids?

BC September 04, 2023 at 01:21 #835469
Reply to frank Aren't they teaching babies how to talk anymore?
BC September 04, 2023 at 01:22 #835470
Quoting Hanover
And what about the kids?


They are the 'the kids'.
frank September 04, 2023 at 01:38 #835473
Quoting Hanover
He cheated on her, and it was the second time. It was so hard to forgive him the first time, and now this. And what about the kids?


She knew he was a horndog when she married him.

Quoting BC
Aren't they teaching babies how to talk anymore?


They sit them in front of the TV and show them Disney movies until they not only speak English but know how to overcome adversity with magical powers.
Hanover September 04, 2023 at 02:47 #835479
Quoting frank
She knew he was a horndog when she married him.


And that's what has her so upset. She's disgusted at him for lying to her yet again and at herself for thinking he could change.

The tragedy is too harsh for words, so they speak in tongues that only the seers and prophets can decipher.
frank September 04, 2023 at 07:27 #835519
Reply to Hanover
That's heavy duty.
Metaphysician Undercover September 04, 2023 at 12:04 #835545
Quoting Hanover
My life plan is set forth in my power of attorney that states every possible resource, including taking on of endless debt, must be exhausted to be sure I capture every possible breath. To the extent it leaves my loved ones penniless and hungry, I will gain comfort in my restful peace knowing I fought for every inch.


Is that legal, to run up enormous debt just prior to death, and leave your descendants liable for payment? I suppose one could run up a huge medical expense very quickly (or extravagant vacations along the Golden Isles), then die right away. If the loser (stiff) has more debt than assets, can the inheritors claim the estate as bankrupt and avoid paying the excess debt?
Hanover September 04, 2023 at 14:35 #835564
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
If the loser (stiff) has more debt than assets, can the inheritors claim the estate as bankrupt and avoid paying the excess debt?


You can't inherit someone else's debt. Once the estate is out of money, it's out of money.

Unless you co-signed or acted as guarantee, then you can't inherit the sins of your forefathers.
T Clark September 04, 2023 at 17:50 #835612
Quoting Hanover
She shared with me her clam chowder recipe.


She doesn't make clam chowder, but her fish chowder is wonderful. One of my favorite things.

Quoting Hanover
I'll probably substitute tomatoes for the milk base.


Yes, you probably will. And I probably won't boil my peanuts.
T Clark September 04, 2023 at 18:03 #835616
I think Joe Biden is the best US President in my adult lifetime. I made a list of his accomplishments trying to avoid arm waving and stick to concrete actions. Problem is, the things I like best about Biden are his arm waving accomplishments. Best of all is just his overall competence at governing. If he tries something and it doesn't work, he keeps trying, e.g. college debt relief, Inflation Reduction Act. He hires and appoints competent, committed people. No scandals that aren't fabricated by Republicans. Support for workers and encouragement of labor unions. Support for environmental policy including climate change...

Anyway, here are what I consider his concrete achievements:

  • Infrastructure bill
  • Inflation Reduction Act
  • Covid relief deal
  • College debt relief
  • LaborRaised minimum wage for federal contract employeesAllowed DOD employees to collectively bargainRequired “salaried” workers be paid for overtime (proposed rule)
  • Covid 19 response
  • Prescription drug price negotiations
  • Rejoined Paris climate accord and WHO
  • Roe vs. Wade response
  • Hands off DOJ - Trump/Hunter indictments
  • Disaster response
  • Debt limit negotiations with Republicans
  • Appointment of judges
  • Juneteenth
  • Marijuana decriminalization
  • Out of Afghanistan
  • Ukraine support - although I admit I think it's time for us to back off.

BC September 04, 2023 at 19:23 #835664
Reply to T Clark How did you go about assembling this list?

Biden decriminalized marijuana? Say more.

Give due credit to Congress for enacting his proposals, and due blame for failing the same.

Johnson's reputation would have fared better had he avoided the Vietnam pit. Kennedy didn't have time, Carter was well-intentioned, but I can't remember what he accomplished. Clinton was a neoliberal. Obama? I can't think about Obama because the next president, whose name need not be mentioned, was such a colossal pile of crap.

I like Biden, but I am concerned about his age. The chances of his making it through 4 more years with his faculties intact are not high. There are too many people in the national leadership -- both sides of the aisle -- who are just too old and in some cases, obviously frail--like McConnell.

I know old people who are older than Biden who are doing very well mentally and physically, but they are not living the kind of lives required of national leaders working in a pressure cooker.
Metaphysician Undercover September 04, 2023 at 19:24 #835665
Quoting Hanover
You can't inherit someone else's debt. Once the estate is out of money, it's out of money.


Good, you just made my retirement plan. Give away all my earthly property to my family, then take my 52-pack of cards, credit cards that is, and go on a nice long bender, never returning to this planet.
BC September 04, 2023 at 19:28 #835668
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover

Bear in mind that some states have time limits between your giving away your earthly property and needing medicaid services like a nursing home. If you gave it all away in say, less than 5 years before your hour of need, the state will attempt to claw it back from the people to whom you gave it.
T Clark September 04, 2023 at 19:38 #835671
Quoting BC
How did you go about assembling this list?


I wrote it from memory then went on the web and added more.

Quoting BC
Give due credit to Congress for enacting his proposals, and due blame for failing the same.


I listed things I judged to be his accomplishments, i.e. they were accomplished based on his actions and wouldn't have been without him.

Quoting BC
I like Biden, but I am concerned about his age. The chances of his making it through 4 more years with his faculties intact are not high.


I might agree if he hadn't been so effective. He's earned the chance to run again.
Metaphysician Undercover September 04, 2023 at 20:31 #835686
Quoting BC
Bear in mind that some states have time limits between your giving away your earthly property and needing medicaid services like a nursing home. If you gave it all away in say, less than 5 years before your hour of need, the state will attempt to claw it back from the people to whom you gave it.


Maybe so, but I'd have a stack of credit cards, loc, and the type of heaven on earth I'd be looking for wouldn't be found at a nursing home.
BC September 05, 2023 at 03:19 #835724
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
the type of heaven on earth I'd be looking for wouldn't be found at a nursing home


I think 99.999% of the population would agree with you,
LuckyR September 05, 2023 at 06:15 #835740
I like Biden, but I am concerned about his age. The chances of his making it through 4 more years with his faculties intact are not high. There are too many people in the national leadership -- both sides of the aisle -- who are just too old and in some cases, obviously frail--like McConnell.

I know old people who are older than Biden who are doing very well mentally and physically, but they are not living the kind of lives required of national leaders working in a pressure cooker

Reply to BC

Well, the Donald is within three years of Biden, so his playing the age card reveals his assumption of the level of sophistication of his voter block.
T Clark September 06, 2023 at 23:24 #835994
Quoting John Martin - Bear in Mind
Bear In Mind

A bear is chasing me through a meadow
and I’m running as fast as I can but
he’s gaining on me—it seems
he’s always gaining on me.
I’m running and running but also
thinking I should just
turn around and say,
“Stop it! Stop chasing me. We both
know you aren’t going to catch me.
All you can ever do is chase me. So,
think about it—why bother?”

The bear does stop,
and he sits on his haunches and thinks,
or seems to think. And then
the bear says to me,
“I have to chase you, you know
that. Or you should. And, sure,
we both know I’ll never catch you.
So, why not give us both a break and
just stop thinking about me?”

But, with that said, he gets back on four feet,
sticks his long pink tongue out, licks down
both sides of his snout. Then he sighs, looks
behind himself, then at me and says, “Okay,
ready when you are.”


jorndoe September 08, 2023 at 01:29 #836272
I can honestly say to some folks: you've been had. ;)

Opinion | Authoritarians are the reason we still have 9/11 conspiracy theories
[sup]— John A Tures · AlterNet · Sep 7, 2023[/sup]

Quoting Sean Richey (Jun 2017)
Using 2012 American National Election Study data, I find a clear and robust relationship between the authoritarian personality and conspiracy theory beliefs. In all models, authoritarianism is a chief predictor for a predisposition toward both conspiratorial beliefs.


Quoting Rudy Reichstadt (Mar 2023)
When you can't subjugate people using the appeal of your own model, you have to undermine the allegiance of the citizens [of foreign countries] to their own system.


T Clark September 08, 2023 at 17:23 #836394
Quoting BBC
Georgia grand jury recommended charging three US senators

A Georgia special grand jury recommended charges against one current and two former US senators, who prosecutors did not ultimately indict. The panel was investigating Donald Trump's alleged efforts to reverse 2020 election results in the state. The jury had voted to recommend indictments against Senator Lindsey Graham and former Senators Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue... All told, the special grand jury recommended charges against 39 people. Only 19, including Mr Trump, were charged. Some major figures not indicted include his former national security advisor Michael Flynn, attorney and aide Boris Epshteyn, and lawyer Cleta Mitchell.

jorndoe September 08, 2023 at 18:47 #836404
@Hailey, out of curiosity, is this sort of thing ? covered by Chinese media?

Chinese opera singer sparks fury after performing in bombed Ukrainian theater
[sup]— Yulia Kesaieva, Vasco Cotovio · CNN · Sep 8, 2023[/sup]
[quote=Wang Fan's husband]The ex-Ukrainian residents, Russian soldiers and civilians who settled here have been working hard to resist various attacks by NATO mercenaries and the Ukrainian army.[/quote]

What's the general sense of the situation among Chinese folks? Anything like the quote?

(I can relay some more of the article, in case you can't access CNN from there.)

T Clark September 08, 2023 at 18:54 #836406
I thought this was interesting.

User image
Jamal September 08, 2023 at 19:54 #836414
Reply to T Clark

I noticed that bad spot in Southwest South Dakota and wondered, what’s going on there? Turns out it’s the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, of the Lakota people, a subculture of the Sioux:

[quote=Wikipedia;]Pine Ridge is the eighth-largest reservation in the United States and it is the poorest. The population of Pine Ridge suffer health conditions, including high mortality rates, depression, alcoholism, drug abuse, malnutrition and diabetes, among others. Reservation access to health care is limited compared to urban areas, and it is not sufficient. Unemployment on the reservation hovers between 80% and 85%, and 49% of the population live below the federal poverty level. Many of the families have no electricity, telephone, running water, or sewage systems; and many use wood stoves to heat their homes, depleting limited wood resources.[/quote]

The population on Pine Ridge has among the shortest life expectancies of any group in the Western Hemisphere: approximately 47 years for males and 52 years for females. The infant mortality rate is five times the United States national average, and the adolescent suicide rate is four times the United States national average. Members of the reservation suffer from a disproportionately high rate of poverty and alcoholism. By 2011, a gang culture formed among Native American teenagers on the reservation. Young residents leave the reservation for larger cities.
T Clark September 08, 2023 at 20:55 #836421
Reply to Jamal

Your post started me thinking, so I thought I'd check the single red county in Wisconsin. That's Menominee County, home of the Menominee Indian reservation. I'm beginning to see a pattern here.
BC September 08, 2023 at 21:49 #836435
Reply to Jamal Reply to T Clark Conditions on reservations are abysmal. It's the same story in the White Earth Reservation. in NW Minnesota: poverty, high rates of unhealthy behaviors, low rate of good health outcomes. There are <5,000 Ojibwa people in this reservation.

Health outcomes are poor in the large area of the SE United States as well. The "Fried Fish. Belt" where fried food, obesity, smoking, lower life expectancy, lower income, etc. is prevalent covers much of this area. Poverty is generally strongly correlated with poor health outcomes.
LuckyR September 08, 2023 at 22:38 #836443
Reply to T Clark Happy to be in one of the darkest counties in my state. Though it's more important to personally make life choices geared towards longevity than where you happen to live.
Hailey September 09, 2023 at 03:05 #836489
Reply to jorndoe

Very limited media coverage about the event in China. I don't know whether there'll be more coming. Many are furious about her action and think she is utterly stupid and has lost her mind. But also some people argue that one should support Russa so to support China; some believe "Katyusha" is an anti-Fanscist song which would suit Ukraine because they got Nazi problems there.

These reactions came from the comment section under news. I must point out that these reactions only portray particial reality because opinionated people are extra loud there. People around the world, ordinary people, no matter what ethnicitry, nationality they are, I believe, would hate wars and hate human suffering. I assure you that most Chinese are kind, especially those who are in poverty and less educated, which are a large proportion of our population, because China has suffered from Japanese war crimes during WWII so we know firsthand how brutally inhumane wars are. Memories are still raw so we don't want wars anywhere in the world.

As for the Chinese Government, it knows that such action is unacceptable, so I think the coverage will be limited. As a Chinese, I can imagine that if the news got out on our social media, people would be very upset by it and condemn it severely. I say this because I believe most people around me, my family, friends, collegues would have similar opinions on this like me. Such a predicatible reaction would cause confusion in society about our country's stand in this matter.

I sincerely hope that this never happened and the war never happened.
Hailey September 09, 2023 at 03:23 #836490
Quoting jorndoe
What's the general sense of the situation among Chinese folks? Anything like the quote?


I searched more for discussions on this matter. In Chinese forums, I see almost unanimous scolding and condemnation on the singer and her individual action. So, no, that's not the general sense among Chinese; it's the opposite.
javi2541997 September 09, 2023 at 12:11 #836525
I think the title of this video blurs the main point. The boy who appears and talks, says a lot of straight things. I like his speech skills.

Scottish accent impossible to understand. It is true that it was hard for me to understand him at first glance, but I comprehended the aim after re-watching the video.

I'd name it: Young boy speaking facts with knowledge.



Jamal September 09, 2023 at 13:58 #836536
Reply to javi2541997

Difficult for foreigners to understand, certainly. As you might be implying, he’s reporting the facts honestly and plainly. I have a feeling I’ve seen the documentary that it comes from, about the youth gangs of Glasgow in I guess the 90s. They called them neds. (Don’t let anyone tell you it stands for Non Educated Delinquent, because that’s just a backronym.)
0 thru 9 September 09, 2023 at 14:15 #836539
Quoting Jamal
(Don’t let anyone tell you it stands for Non Educated Delinquent, because that’s just a backronym.)
Thanks for interesting language tip. Had to look up the meaning of backronym.

Thought it was a portmanteau for ‘backassward-acronym’ (a no longer appropriate acronym). :blush:
javi2541997 September 09, 2023 at 14:27 #836541
Reply to Jamal

Interesting. Thanks Jamal for putting me in context. Yes, that's why I wanted to share the video at The Shoutbox: to pay my respects for how this kid faced the problems plainly. I wasn't that self-confident at the same age...
0 thru 9 September 09, 2023 at 14:39 #836542
Reply to T Clark Fascinating map thanks. :up:
Apparently, going ten miles from California into the Reno / Vegas, Nevada area causes one’s life expectancy to plummet.

Must be the gambling, gangsters, and meth. You know… living large in a twisted YOLO way. :scream:
jorndoe September 09, 2023 at 15:41 #836551
Reply to Hailey, Reply to Hailey, thanks lots. :up: A first-hand view is informative.

[sup](As an aside, I know some Chinese folks personally — kind, smart, etc, no need to tell me at least.)[/sup]

Hanover September 09, 2023 at 16:12 #836559
One cannot assume that simply because people have died at certain ages in the past that they'll die at those ages in the future, if they'll even to continue to die at all. It just seems like a lot of speculation, delving too deeply into prophesy and the dark arts.

I had two spicy sausage biscuits and farm raised scrambled eggs for breakfast Sent my brother a polka themed birthday video for well wishes as well.

Why did the blind man fall into the well? He didn't see that well.
frank September 09, 2023 at 16:26 #836562
Quoting Hanover
Why did the blind man fall into the well? He didn't see that well.


But when he bumped into it, couldn't he feel around and notice there's a big hole in the middle?
Hanover September 09, 2023 at 16:39 #836565
Quoting frank
But when he bumped into it, couldn't he feel around and notice there's a big hole in the middle?


His stilts so expanded his strides that he walked straight into the hole, not having bumped into the ornate masonry and bucket and pulley assembly.

The free fall plummet would certainly had been fatal had he not been cushioned by Baby Chloe, the poor child who had fallen in before him while fearlessly chasing a krampus.

Hailey September 09, 2023 at 17:01 #836568
Reply to jorndoe

You're welcome. Thank you for asking :)
frank September 09, 2023 at 17:03 #836569
Quoting Hanover
The free fall plummet would certainly had been fatal had he not been cushioned by Baby Chloe, the poor child who had fallen in before him while fearlessly chasing a krampus.


Why was she chasing a krampus?
T Clark September 09, 2023 at 17:12 #836571
Quoting LuckyR
it's more important to personally make life choices geared towards longevity than where you happen to live.


Good life choices are easier to make in some places than others, e.g. Indian reservations vs. affluent suburbs.
T Clark September 09, 2023 at 17:14 #836572
Quoting Hanover
Why did the blind man fall into the well? He didn't see that well.


I've been saving this - an asexual children's rhyme:

Jimmy and Carol, sitting in a tree
S-I-T-T-I-N-G.
Hanover September 09, 2023 at 19:27 #836608
Quoting frank
Why was she chasing a krampus?


As if not self-explanatory, her rage from being denied her Cabbage Patch doll from Santa, which she attributed to the krampus' meddling into her affairs, and his reporting to jolly St. Nick her countless indiscretions, not the least of which were her inappropriate TikTok postings of her Summer dalliances at Rehoboth Beach.
0 thru 9 September 09, 2023 at 20:42 #836611
User image
I’m not sure this Stoic philosopher has been fully explored on this forum.
His ideas are intriguing. His curly beard and hair are hypnotic.
BC September 09, 2023 at 20:57 #836614
Reply to javi2541997 His speech employs guttural or glottal consonants -- generated in the rear of the mouth. Many of us find English consonants that are generated towards the front of the mouth more understandable just because that's the way we speak.

Glottal consonants are consonants using the glottis as their primary articulation. Many phoneticians consider them, or at least the glottal fricative, to be transitional states of the glottis without a point of articulation as other consonants have, while some do not consider them to be consonants at all.


As usual, expert opinion varies.

Reply to 0 thru 9 Couldn't figure out whether a "backronym" is the same thing as a "retronym". Apparently they are not the same. A "cloth diaper" is a retronym. "Retro" because most diapers are made out of paper and plastic these days. "Backronym", on the other hand is

an acronym deliberately formed from a phrase whose initial letters spell out a particular word or words, either to create a memorable name or as a fanciful explanation of a word's origin. "Biodiversity Serving Our Nation, or BISON (a backronym if ever there was one).
frank September 09, 2023 at 22:32 #836622
Quoting T Clark
I've been saving this - an asexual children's rhyme:

Jimmy and Carol, sitting in a tree
S-I-T-T-I-N-G.


:lol:

Quoting Hanover
not the least of which were her inappropriate TikTok postings of her Summer dalliances at Rehoboth Beach.


She had a dalliance then. That figures.
Metaphysician Undercover September 10, 2023 at 02:06 #836659
Quoting BC
"Backronym", on the other hand is...


For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge.
LuckyR September 10, 2023 at 04:57 #836674
Reply to T Clark Or folks who care about such things tend to live in certain areas and not in others.
javi2541997 September 10, 2023 at 05:20 #836677
Quoting BC
His speech employs guttural or glottal consonants -- generated in the rear of the mouth. Many of us find English consonants that are generated towards the front of the mouth more understandable just because that's the way we speak.


Interesting!

I wonder if it is possible to get a Glaswegian or scouse accent with a lot of practice and patience, because I see that there are physiological factors to consider as well.

On the other hand, I understand that it is not a big deal to speak English with that "Spanish" pronunciation, but I always wanted to speak as a native (at least, this is what I was taught in school. My teachers always put a lot of effort into their classes to teach us how to pronounce English properly)
Jamal September 10, 2023 at 07:19 #836680
Quoting javi2541997
I wonder if it is possible to get a Glaswegian or scouse accent with a lot of practice and patience, because I see that there are physiological factors to consider as well.


A quite interesting question, which I will answer on the basis of very little technical knowledge but heaps of wisdom…

Probably the most convincing accent mimicry is done without much knowledge of the technicalities of phonetics, in the same way that one can sing specific notes without explicitly knowing the anatomical manipulations of the vibrating air column that are necessary to produce them. Some actors and impersonators can be very convincing mimics of accents, and they learn by carefully listening and copying, not by the study of phonetics, or at least not centrally by such study.

I think that everyone can do this to some extent, but that there’s a spectrum of ability. These abilities must, I suppose, derive from the original ability to learn how to speak in the first place: we develop the same accent as that of our parents and friends. The original mimicry.

Exercising this mysterious and fascinating ability is different from attempting to mimic an accent just by deliberately reproducing the vowels and consonants as described in articulatory phonetics. I recall having heard a non-Scottish accent coach demonstrating a Glaswegian accent based on phonetic analysis, and while I could understand the sounds he was going for and could appreciate that the accent was correct on paper, as it were, even so the accent was bad. This is because he didn’t have the intuitive ability, i.e., he wasn’t good at accents, meaning he was low on that spectrum I mentioned. (It also suggests that phonetics doesn’t cover speech in enough detail to be accurate).

So, my totally non-expert formula for the successful reproduction of the Glaswegian accent, assuming you cannot move to Glasgow and develop the accent organically, is as follows:

1. Listen and copy Glaswegians repeatedly every day for five years, based on recordings, first thing in the morning and at about 7pm when you wake up from your siesta.
2. Make friends with Glaswegians and talk to them as much as possible. Most of them are friendly and like to talk so this shouldn’t be a problem. Moving to Glasgow and joining a gang is ideal but optional.
3. Study Glaswegian dialect.
4. To supplement these tasks, but only as a guide, study the scientifically described articulatory phonetics of Glaswegian accents
5. After five years, choose to focus on one of the many varied sub-accents of Glaswegian.

How much you will need to complete stage 2 depends on your innate intuitive ability, your position on the spectrum.

Bonus fact: I once knew a chap who often switched between a London accent and a Glasgow accent, very naturally and unconsciously. It was disorienting until I learned that he was born in London and spent half of his childhood there, and then moved to Glasgow. It’s interesting that his original accent did not change, rather he developed a new accent alongside the old one, and kept them both.
javi2541997 September 10, 2023 at 08:42 #836688
Reply to Jamal Good analysis!

Mimicking an accent over years, can lead us to speak as a native/local person. I do not know if I already told you, but I was in Scotland in 2018. I was living in Edinburgh with good folks. My university sent me there to work as an intern at the Scottish Parliament, writing drafts and stuff...

When I arrived in Edinburgh, the people were very friendly with me but, at the same time, I had trouble to follow the conversations because we are not used to listening regional accents. Nonetheless, I started to give my best in the pronunciation, but this didn't hide my Spanish accent obviously. I remember that I said to one of my mates: "sorry but I hardly understand you sometimes because the Scottish accent is difficult for me!" But my mate replied: "Don't worry, m8! But I come from Newcastle. I am not Scottish." :lol:

I am going to put in practice your formula, but I admit that since then I have always tried to watch BBC series and shows to get used to all UK/Scotland accents. It helps a lot when you see series or stuff. I wish I could join a Glaswegian gang, but I don't consider leaving Spain in the long run. Who knows in the future...

Bonus: I am deeply sorry to disappoint you, but I never take siesta.

Quoting Jamal
Bonus fact: I once knew a chap who often switched between a London accent and a Glasgow accent, very naturally and unconsciously


Some Spaniards have this ability of switching Madrid accent to Catalonian or Andalusian whenever they want to!
0 thru 9 September 10, 2023 at 15:25 #836727
User image.
I’m trying to refute the bottom argument, but it’s too slippery. :chin:
Jamal September 10, 2023 at 15:33 #836728
Quoting javi2541997
"Don't worry, m8! But I come from Newcastle. I am not Scottish."


Ha! Probably an easy mistake to make if you’re not attuned to the various British accents. The Newcastle accent, known as the Geordie accent, can indeed be difficult.



After I watched the film Sightseers, I was able to speak in a Birmingham accent for a while, which was quite convincing to my associates at the time. It didn’t last long, but it was very enjoyable while it lasted, since it’s an inherently amusing accent. It’s as if I’d been possessed.
frank September 10, 2023 at 15:40 #836729
User image
T Clark September 10, 2023 at 15:50 #836730
Reply to Jamal

Sometimes when I'm watching a British TV show I'll hear someone speaking with a very odd accent that I can't make out. Then I realize it's supposed to be American.
Jamal September 10, 2023 at 15:53 #836732
Reply to T Clark Yes, British attempts at American accents are usually embarrassing. I’ve tried it myself but I find it immensely difficult. It’s odd, since we Brits are familiar with American accents from a young age.
T Clark September 10, 2023 at 15:55 #836733
Quoting Jamal
Yes, British attempts at American accents are usually embarrassing. I’ve tried it myself but I find it immensely difficult. It’s odd, since we Brits are familiar with American accents from a young age.


When I want to try to speak with a British accent, I just try to imitate Dick Van Dyke in "Merry Poppins."
Jamal September 10, 2023 at 15:57 #836734
Reply to T Clark Fun fact: imitating Dick Van Dyke badly results in perfect cockney.
T Clark September 10, 2023 at 16:02 #836738
Quoting Jamal
Fun fact: imitating Dick Van Dyke badly results in perfect cockney.


There was an amusing film clip of British actors telling which American they thought had the worst British accent. Every one named Van Dyke, usually with a laugh and an eye roll.
Jamal September 10, 2023 at 16:05 #836742
Reply to T Clark I’m sure I’ve heard worse.
Noble Dust September 10, 2023 at 18:07 #836762
Fun fact: I used to work with one of Dick Van Dyke’s grandsons.
BC September 10, 2023 at 18:36 #836772
Quoting Jamal
1. Listen and copy Glaswegians repeatedly every day for five years, based on recordings, first thing in the morning and at about 7pm when you wake up from your siesta.
2. Make friends with Glaswegians and talk to them as much as possible. Most of them are friendly and like to talk so this shouldn’t be a problem. Moving to Glasgow and joining a gang is ideal but optional.
3. Study Glaswegian dialect.
4. To supplement these tasks, but only as a guide, study the scientifically described articulatory phonetics of Glaswegian accents
5. After five years, choose to focus on one of the many varied sub-accents of Glaswegian.


Or just say, "to hell with all that" in whatever language you have.
javi2541997 September 10, 2023 at 19:02 #836778
Quoting Jamal
The Newcastle accent, known as the Geordie accent, can indeed be difficult.


Indeed! But listening to it is hilarious! :lol:
T Clark September 10, 2023 at 22:25 #836821
Quoting Noble Dust
I used to work with one of Dick Van Dyke’s grandsons.


Van Dyke is still alive - 98 years old. He was a big deal for my generation. "The Dick Van Dyke" show was the most popular show on TV for a long time. It still holds up reasonably well, although everybody hated his dumbass son Richie. Van Dyke's brother Jerry was also in a TV comedy, "My Mother the Car" high on the list of the worst shows in TV history. In it, a man's mother dies and is reincarnated as a car, which can talk to him through it's radio. I was redeemed a bit by the fact that it was the inspiration for another, better, show - "The Lovematic Grandpa."
Metaphysician Undercover September 11, 2023 at 00:08 #836841
Reply to T Clark
Van Dyke was on so much TV, no wonder he's a big deal. Some of those old TV actors did so much, it's unbelievable, they must have just been working all the time.
frank September 11, 2023 at 00:10 #836842
Is it possible to eat too much popcorn?
Sir2u September 11, 2023 at 00:45 #836849
Quoting T Clark
"My Mother the Car" high on the list of the worst shows in TV history.


They should shoot people that make these lists. The shear ridiculous of the program was enough to make you want to watch the fun.
BC September 11, 2023 at 00:56 #836851
Quoting frank
Is it possible to eat too much popcorn?


Of course it's possible. What is in doubt is how much is too much. Then we have to consider whether the popcorn is buttered (or otherwise greased and flavored) and how much salt is on it.

Have you tried eating a bushel of popped corn with 1/2 pound of melted butter and 1/4 cup of salt on it? If you have, how did you feel at various stages of consumption? How well did your gut do digesting the mess? If after eating one bushel of buttered salted popcorn, did you feel able and willing to eat more, say additional pints of popped corn?
T Clark September 11, 2023 at 00:56 #836852
Quoting Sir2u
They should shoot people that make these lists. The shear ridiculous of the program was enough to make you want to watch the fun.


I was 15 at the time, so I can't be charged. Pretty sure the statute of limitations has been exceeded too.
Sir2u September 11, 2023 at 01:06 #836856
Quoting T Clark
I was 15 at the time, so I can't be charged. Pretty sure the statute of limitations has been exceeded too.


Seems like you are acting kind of guilty, maybe you gave them the idea to make the list or include it. Just blame your behavior on puberty, it seems to work as an excuse.

It also means that you are almost 75 I think.
frank September 11, 2023 at 01:42 #836858
Quoting BC
Have you tried eating a bushel of popped corn with 1/2 pound of melted butter and 1/4 cup of salt on it?


I'm willing to try it for science. I'll leave the butter off though.


Hailey September 11, 2023 at 03:44 #836865
Do you fear death and since when? I got friends who feared death from 13, 14 years old. I personally don't fear it, or at least this is what I believe. Now I'm now in late 20s, and I would think to myself that I might die at 50 or something (this is when I think death would begin to happen more often) so I shouldn't worry too much about anything. Just chill.
BC September 11, 2023 at 04:13 #836868
Quoting Hailey
I'm now in late 20s, and I would think to myself that I might die at 50 or something (this is when I think death would begin to happen more often)


Interesting. When I was quite young (like late 20s) I thought I might be dead by 50. No reason, really, but 50 seemed like a long ways off. In 1981 AIDS erupted, and that seemed to confirm that 50 might be my expiration date--so many guys my age and younger were dying. But I didn't get AIDS and didn't die, and soon I was 50, feeling very healthy, I began to think that by the time I was 80 I would be dead. Now I'm 77, feeling quite old on some days, but 80 is too close now. How about 90? I don't really want to live 13 more years. There are too many things going haywire in the world, plus old age involves a steady succession of unpleasant physical problems.

Some people think of suicide, but as Dorothy Parker put it...

Resumé

Acids stain you.
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful.
Nooses give.
Gas smells awful.
You might as well live.

javi2541997 September 11, 2023 at 04:41 #836873
Quoting Hailey
Do you fear death and since when?


I don't fear it either. It is something natural as well as drinking water. I do not care at the age it will come. I had already accepted the fact that I would not live forever a few years ago.
Hailey September 11, 2023 at 04:55 #836875
Reply to BC
Hahahahah, so funny. I'll see how it goes for me. I'll let you know if I'm gonna die early.
Hailey September 11, 2023 at 04:58 #836876
Reply to javi2541997
Yes, same here. It's like, "you're gonna die", "ok". I wonder whether that'll change if I got seriously ill and cry that I want to live. BTW, I think I messed up in the previous sentence, the grammar, I mean. Would you be kind enough to correct it for me.
Hailey September 11, 2023 at 05:00 #836877
Reply to BC
I'll also take it as an auspicious sign that maybe I'll live a bit longer.
javi2541997 September 11, 2023 at 05:57 #836880
Quoting Hailey
. BTW, I think I messed up in the previous sentence, the grammar, I mean. Would you be kind enough to correct it for me.


To be honest, I am not precisely the one whose grammar is the best! :lol: But I would say:

"I wonder whether that will change if I get seriously ill and cry because I want to live."
Hailey September 11, 2023 at 07:13 #836887
Hahaha, that makes sense. Appreciate it!
T Clark September 11, 2023 at 14:33 #836921
Quoting Sir2u
It also means that you are almost 75 I think.


71. Old, but not as old as some here.
Sir2u September 11, 2023 at 15:04 #836930
Quoting T Clark
71. Old, but not as old as some here.


We are about the same age then, I am 70 years young.
The program I saw was in late 65, early 66. I remember it well because I had not been in the USA for long and was still fascinated by the number of TV stations and shows available in comparison to the UK. And all of the new things coming out all the time. But I was only 12 then.

There was also the talking horse, my favorite martian, batman, a bunch of cowboy things and of course the Saturday cartoons.

Thank that gods we have memory lane to visit and get away from the bullshit of modern times for a while.
T Clark September 11, 2023 at 16:22 #836946
Quoting Sir2u
There was also the talking horse, my favorite martian, batman, a bunch of cowboy things and of course the Saturday cartoons.


Yes, I watched all of those. I was a stereotypical American kid, spending most of my time watching TV. I rarely do now, which is probably a good thing. As you note, there wasn't much selection back in the 1960s. Now the choices are overwhelming, but I still usually can't find anything I want to watch. I do still like cooking shows.
jorndoe September 11, 2023 at 16:42 #836950
Some distraction to distract you from other distractions:

U.S. News Best Countries Rankings (published Sep 6, 2023)

Switzerland comes out on top overall :sparkle:
• Brazil comes out as the most adventurous :party:
• Sweden tops in quality of life and social purpose :heart:
• Russia comes out as 3rd most powerful and highest threat :fire:
• Finland tops in transparency
• Italy tops in cultural influence and heritage :flower:

User image
? Source (Sep 8, 2023)

javi2541997 September 11, 2023 at 18:42 #836974
Quoting jorndoe
Finland tops in transparency


Do you agree, @ssu? Because these rankings tend to be crooked usually...
jorndoe September 11, 2023 at 21:59 #836993
:D

AI robots went to Dolphins-Chargers game and freaked out everyone https://trib.al/HQCiI3B (Sep 11, 2023)

[tweet]https://twitter.com/SBNation/status/1701295781016228206[/tweet]

BC September 11, 2023 at 22:13 #836995
Reply to jorndoe They don't look very sinister, not Borg-ish at all. You might want to consider being assimilated; resistance is sometimes futile. Their credibility would be enhanced if one of them leapt onto the field, grabbed the player who fumbled the ball, and twisted his head off--spurting blood and all.
jorndoe September 11, 2023 at 22:56 #837003
Reply to BC, and miss the game...? :o
Tom Storm September 11, 2023 at 22:58 #837004
Quoting Sir2u
There was also the talking horse, my favorite martian, batman, a bunch of cowboy things and of course the Saturday cartoons.


Sounds like the same American TV we all watched in Australia in the 1970's - Have Gun Will Travel, Mr Ed, The Cisco Kid, My Favorite Martian, Bewitched, Batman, Twilight Zone, Get Smart, The Flintstones etc, etc.
T Clark September 11, 2023 at 23:44 #837013
Quoting Tom Storm
Sounds like the same American TV we all watched in Australia in the 1970's - Have Gun Will Travel, Mr Ed, The Cisco Kid, My Favorite Martian, Bewitched, Batman, Twilight Zone, Get Smart, The Flintstones etc, etc.


Yes, those were the shows we watched in the 1960s. I guess it took all those years for the films to be loaded into clipper ships and sailed down under. I've read stories of terrible storms where entire seasons of "Gilligan's Island" and "The Beverly Hillbillies" were lost.
Tom Storm September 11, 2023 at 23:58 #837016
Reply to T Clark Yeah. We ran the same TV shows continually (we only had 3 networks) from the 1960's until the 1980's. A type of eternal recurrence with a laugh track.
T Clark September 12, 2023 at 00:54 #837024
Quoting Tom Storm
We ran the same TV shows continually (we only had 3 networks) from the 1960's until the 1980's. A type of eternal recurrence with a laugh track.


I lived about equidistant from Baltimore, Washington, and Philadelphia, and there were some independent channels from those stations. In the 1960s sometime, we got UHF stations, which were all independent. Pretty bare compared to now. I think the lack of choice was a good thing. We never really got sucked in to the cable/computer/internet/cell phone thing. We were too cheap. My wife didn't get a cell phone until a couple of years ago. She definitely has technophobia. We never had it at home when my children were growing up. I think that made it so they could take it or leave it. I worry about people who grew up with all of that. It's so intrusive.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 04:28 #837033
Quoting Tom Storm
Sounds like the same American TV we all watched in Australia in the 1970's - Have Gun Will Travel, Mr Ed, The Cisco Kid, My Favorite Martian, Bewitched, Batman, Twilight Zone, Get Smart, The Flintstones etc, etc.


We had Bewitched, Batman, and the Flintstones, but not the others. Scooby-Doo was on all the time as well. We also had the classic cartoons from the golden age of American animation. Although I was just a child, I was critical of the Flintstones and Scooby-Doo and wondered why American cartoons had gotten worse over the years.

There was also a lot of Japanese cartoons and adapted versions thereof, like The Mysterious Cities of Gold, Battle of the Planets, and Thundercats. I was confused about those ones, probably because of their mixed provenance.

Of course, we had to watch all these shows through the shop window of the local department store, because we lived in a shoebox in t’middle o’road.
Tom Storm September 12, 2023 at 05:27 #837034
Reply to Jamal I loved Japanese cartoons - Gigantor, Marine Boy, Kimba the White Lion, The Amazing Three... As for US cartoons, I was addicted to Scooby Doo when I was 7 and of course, right into my 20's, the infinitely more sophisticated Looney Tunes.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 09:05 #837043
Quoting Tom Storm
Gigantor, Marine Boy, Kimba the White Lion, The Amazing Three


Never heard of them.

Quoting Tom Storm
I was addicted to Scooby Doo


Although Shaggy was a good character, I didn't much like Scooby Doo until the appearance of Scrappy, who I decided to be fond of because everyone else hated him.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 09:21 #837046
While I’m being nostalgic, let me share this genuinely fantastic theme song from Ulysses 31, which I remember much more than the episodes themselves.

Tom Storm September 12, 2023 at 09:32 #837051
Reply to Jamal

My favourite show back in 1970. Marine Boy.

ssu September 12, 2023 at 09:33 #837052
Quoting javi2541997
Do you agree, ssu? Because these rankings tend to be crooked usually...

Ummm... by "topping" I wouldn't be sure if it really is better than anywhere else, but I would say when it comes to transparency they aren't bad.

Finnish authorities take laws very seriously. So seriously that for them it made a real problem when EU passed laws on the data privacy / confidentiality of deceased persons, really, if historians could then study the personal life of Julius Ceasar and Kleopatra. Obviously the EU lawmakers when making laws about data privacy, they didn't think that they would be making an obstacle for studying history. But for Finnish authorities Julius Ceasar and my passed away father are both deceased individuals.

Hence if there's a law demanding authorities transparency, these idiots will follow them. (Assuming that when and if.)

Yet overall I think that there's more transparency in many areas in the US than in the EU realm (which basically has the roots of it's bureaucracy in the French model), yet when it comes to security, I think that Finland is a lot more transparent than good ol' US.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 09:35 #837054
Reply to Tom Storm Very sixties.
javi2541997 September 12, 2023 at 10:04 #837058
Reply to ssu Interesting. Thank you for your reply, ssu. :up:
Sir2u September 12, 2023 at 15:16 #837085
Quoting Tom Storm
Sounds like the same American TV we all watched in Australia in the 1970's - Have Gun Will Travel, Mr Ed, The Cisco Kid, My Favorite Martian, Bewitched, Batman, Twilight Zone, Get Smart, The Flintstones etc, etc.


Even as a teenager I could never understand why the Flintstones and some of the other cartoons were kids programs. Some of the topics like Wilma thinking Fred was cheating on her and following to try and prove it, were not really kid's stuff.

Seeing the other mentions here brought back memories of other favorites, Star Trek, Man from UNCLE, Mission Impossible, The Beverly Hillbillies.
Those were the good days for TV.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 16:04 #837091
Quoting Sir2u
Those were the good days for TV


Those were the days when you were young, that’s all.
T Clark September 12, 2023 at 17:05 #837111
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Van Dyke was on so much TV, no wonder he's a big deal. Some of those old TV actors did so much, it's unbelievable, they must have just been working all the time.


Yes, he had at least one more popular TV show. Plus he was in "Merry Poppins" and some other movies. As I just noted in another discussion, people in the UK think he had the worst British accent in history.
T Clark September 12, 2023 at 17:12 #837112
Reply to Jamal
Reply to Tom Storm

Did either of you have "Rocky and Bullwinkle?" Amazingly sophisticated, especially because it was made in the late 1950s/early 1960s. The animation wasn't as good as Warner Bros., but the writing was great. Speaking of late 50s/early 60s, "Dobie Gillis" and "Twilight Zone" were also sophisticated and well written.
Jamal September 12, 2023 at 17:17 #837113
Quoting T Clark
Did either of you have "Rocky and Bullwinkle?"


That was on TV for a while, but I didn’t get it. All I remember is that the animation wasn’t very good. I’ve taken note of your assessment and shall reappraise it if I ever get the chance.
T Clark September 12, 2023 at 17:18 #837114
Quoting Sir2u
Even as a teenager I could never understand why the Flintstones and some of the other cartoons were kids programs. Some of the topics like Wilma thinking Fred was cheating on her and following to try and prove it, were not really kid's stuff.


"The Flintstones" was a big deal. It was the first cartoon in prime time and was intended for adults and children. I remember when it first came on and all the publicity.
Tom Storm September 12, 2023 at 20:07 #837135
Quoting T Clark
Did either of you have "Rocky and Bullwinkle?"


Yes, it was popular here. I was a big fan... 'Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat...' I think the voice over narrator was William Conrad who played 'Cannon'. R&B was sardonic, witty, artfully devised.

Quoting Sir2u
Even as a teenager I could never understand why the Flintstones and some of the other cartoons were kids programs.


Yes, it was a different world and they bundled adult content up with children's. Fun for the whole family. There was an amazing TV ad for Winston cigarettes featuring the Flintstones. This really shows us how things have changed.

T Clark September 13, 2023 at 00:37 #837166
Quoting Tom Storm
Yes, it was popular here. I was a big fan... 'Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat...' I think the voice over narrator was William Conrad who played 'Cannon'. R&B was sardonic, witty, artfully devised.


Yes, I was just thinking about this the other day. "Cannon" was one of my favorite shows. I can hear Conrad's voice right now doing the R&B narration. I can also hear Edward Everett Horton, who did the narration for Fractured Fairy Tales segment.
Hanover September 13, 2023 at 01:17 #837173
Clutch Cargo had the worst animation of all time, especially the lip movement. It makes South Park look sophisticated.



My brother and I used to watch cartoons until the commercials came on, and then we wrestle and kick each other until the show came back on.
frank September 13, 2023 at 01:56 #837178
Go Speed Racer!!

Tom Storm September 13, 2023 at 02:48 #837190
Quoting Jamal
Although Shaggy was a good character, I didn't much like Scooby Doo until the appearance of Scrappy, who I decided to be fond of because everyone else hated him.


Did you feel the same about Star Wars: The Phantom Menace and the appearance of Jar Jar Binks?
T Clark September 13, 2023 at 04:23 #837199
Quoting Hanover
worst animation of all time, especially the lip movement.


But the lip movement was the only part that was actually animated, albeit very badly.
Jamal September 13, 2023 at 05:12 #837201
Quoting Tom Storm
Did you feel the same about Star Wars: The Phantom Menace and the appearance of Jar Jar Binks?


No, my contrarianism has limits.
Sir2u September 13, 2023 at 14:18 #837242
Quoting Tom Storm
There was an amazing TV ad for Winston cigarettes featuring the Flintstones. This really shows us how things have changed.


I don't remember ever seeing that, but I have always tried to ignored ads. Can you imagine what would happen now if all of the people that started smoking because of these ads decided to sue someone?
T Clark September 13, 2023 at 18:29 #837289
Schadenfreude is a terrible, horrible, unjustifiable, immature, sickening response to another's misfortune. That being said:

Moliere September 14, 2023 at 00:39 #837395
Reply to Hanover Are the lips recorded from a video recorder? They look like they're a part of a person who is behind the animation and putting their lips in a hole where the actors could talk.
Hanover September 14, 2023 at 01:04 #837402
Reply to Moliere To reside in the Shoutbox, one must know much of everything, so I would be happy to talk about the Syncro-Vox technique first employed by the Clutch Cargo animators. The mixture of the static image with the moving lips saves time and money and it gives a wonderfully realistic and somewhat disturbing effect.

I"d suspect that if it can be used on lips, it can be used on any body part, only limited by one's imagination.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncro-Vox#:~:text=The%201959%20cartoon%20Clutch%20Cargo,laid%20over%20the%20animated%20figures.
Metaphysician Undercover September 14, 2023 at 01:15 #837405
Quoting T Clark
Plus he was in "Merry Poppins" and some other movies.


I didn't watch "Merry Poppins" until i was grown up, but I'm pretty sure it's all about popping acid. The "spoonful of sugar" gives it away.

What was the idea behind making kids entertainment which was laced with recreational drug references? It seemed to be very common in the sixties. Another good example: puff the magic drag in. Did those guys sit around thinking how can we talk about getting high while disguising the fact that we're talking about getting high? The kids will never figure it out.
Moliere September 14, 2023 at 01:16 #837406
Quoting Hanover
To reside in the Shoutbox, one must know much of everything,


Naturally, this is why I've been hesitant to speak in this know-much-of-everything place. ;)

The lips are slightly disturbing in comparison to the non-static pictures, though that's probably because I was given indulgences in the art of cartoons through:

T Clark September 14, 2023 at 01:34 #837409
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
puff the magic drag in


Of course; Peter Yarrow of Peter, Paul, and Mary along with the guy who wrote the lyrics deny it included any drug references. I believe them.
Hailey September 14, 2023 at 02:48 #837426
People, what do you make of the recent UFO or UAP hearing in various countries, like the "alien" bodies in Mexico?
praxis September 14, 2023 at 03:23 #837432
Ellos son muy extraños.

User image
javi2541997 September 14, 2023 at 08:29 #837471
Thanks Sweden! :up: A real modern European monarchy, not like our flatland!

Sweden became the first member state to express reluctance over Pedro Sanchez’s bid to have Catalan added as an EU language, complicating the Spanish prime minister’s effort to win the support of a separatist party for his reappointment. Morning news.

Metaphysician Undercover September 14, 2023 at 10:56 #837488
Quoting T Clark
I believe them.


And "Merry poppins"? Are you aware of the history of LSD and its relationship with sugar?
Michael September 14, 2023 at 12:35 #837500
User image
Baden September 14, 2023 at 14:22 #837519
Sir2u September 14, 2023 at 14:29 #837520
Quoting Hailey
People, what do you make of the recent UFO or UAP hearing in various countries, like the "alien" bodies in Mexico?


I think Mexico is looking for someone else to blame for the problems with the drug cartels, the gringos don't accept that they are to blame but Mexico still needs the AID packets.
Hanover September 14, 2023 at 14:43 #837524
User image
Recent philosophy position posting.
Baden September 14, 2023 at 16:31 #837540
Reply to Hanover

Don't worry, you never had a chance anyway. :up:
T Clark September 14, 2023 at 17:06 #837548
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
And "Merry poppins"? Are you aware of the history of LSD and its relationship with sugar?


I am skeptical there's any hidden meaning in the song.
T Clark September 14, 2023 at 17:13 #837550
Reply to Michael

And if, while the trolley was traversing the 1,000 miles, a team of surgeons replaced all the organs of the person tied to the track, what then?
Hanover September 14, 2023 at 17:22 #837552
Puff the Magic Dragon is about a little boy growing up.

I'm certain of that.
frank September 14, 2023 at 17:43 #837562
Quoting Hanover
Puff the Magic Dragon is about a little boy growing up.

I'm certain of that.


Was his mom a crack ho?
Hanover September 14, 2023 at 18:18 #837571
Quoting frank
Was his mom a crack ho?


Coincidentally yes, but that has no impact on the meaning of the song. She just happens to enjoy cocaine byproducts and the company of men for payment.
Hanover September 14, 2023 at 18:52 #837584
Quoting T Clark
I am skeptical there's any hidden meaning in the song.


Her umbrella though is a clear representation of a horse cock. I always thought that was weird and didn't otherwise fit into the image she was meant to portray.
T Clark September 14, 2023 at 20:55 #837622
Quoting Hanover
Her umbrella though is a clear representation of a horse cock.


I had not heard that, although I did read that if you play the lyrics to the song "Supercalifragilisticexpialidocious" backwards it says "Make America Great Again."
Hanover September 15, 2023 at 02:10 #837680
For some reason I confuse The Sound of Music with Mary Poppins. I realize there are differences, but that's just the way it's going to be.

Tom Storm September 15, 2023 at 03:10 #837687
Quoting Hanover
For some reason I confuse The Sound of Music with Mary Poppins


Easy mistake to make. The Nazis in Mary Poppins are played by the Disney family.
BC September 15, 2023 at 03:51 #837691
Quoting Hanover
Her umbrella though is a clear representation of a horse cock.


User image

Actual horse condom; only those certified as hung-like-a-horse are eligible to buy, possess, and use these.

The Stallion Condom would make a nice case for her horse-cock umbrella. And if she came across a raging stallion (like you, for instance) she'd be ready to go.

Hanover September 15, 2023 at 10:08 #837728
Quoting BC
Actual horse condom; only those certified as hung-like-a-horse are eligible to buy, possess, and use these.


Speaking of farm animal intercourse, I saw this show on sheep breeding where they placed two rams among hundreds of ewes in order to impregnate the lot of them. They put a pad on each ram's belly, one with blue ink, the other with red, so they could they determine which ram visited upon which ewe by the color left on the ewe's back.

One ewe was clearly more prolific than the other as it turned out. There were also no untapped prudish ewes nor were there any whorish purple backed ewes.

Anywho, I have a biege pad on my belly, so if you see any satisfied ladies or ewes wandering about with biege backsides, rest assured Hanover got there first.
frank September 15, 2023 at 13:17 #837759
Quoting Hanover
nor were there any whorish purple backed ewes.


I think it's kind of sexist to refer to purple backed ewes as "whores."
Hanover September 15, 2023 at 14:41 #837788
Quoting frank
I think it's kind of sexist to refer to purple backed ewes as "whores."


I believe an ewe that saves herself for a single ram is of higher virtue. I'm old school that way. On the other hand, it doesn't matter to me how nanny goats behave, and I think nothing more or less of them, regardless of how many billys they allow into their lair. It's farily species specific with me when it comes to what I consider appropriate love making.
frank September 15, 2023 at 15:17 #837803
Quoting Hanover
It's farily species specific with me when it comes to what I consider appropriate love making.


:chin:
Maw September 15, 2023 at 18:20 #837867
gorgeous day in NYC
Hanover September 15, 2023 at 19:41 #837875
Quoting BC
Actual horse condom; only those certified as hung-like-a-horse are eligible to buy, possess, and use these.


I was considering the purpose of an actual horse condom, and setting aside the possibility of its use during inter-species sexual relations to save a young lady from the unkemptness that would follow such an act, I considered two other possibilities: (1) to allow mares to go about their day along with stallions without the fear and embarrassment of unplanned pregnancy, or (2) to secure a semen sample through a sex act that could then be transferred to the preferred mare.

As to #1, I didn't think this likely because (a) it is doubtful the device would remain in place during periods of flaccidity and non-sexual horseplay, but it would instead drop to the ground where a young child might use it to suffocate himself; and (b) one must remember that an alternative use for horsecock other than sexual relations is for urinary release and in such an instance the casual condomed horse would become the donner of an offensive piss-balloon, an object no horse would tolerate pendulating from his member.

As to #2, the idea of there being a surrogate horsecunt that could be used to stimulate and release the semen so that it could then be transferred to a sisterhorsecunt is an interesting concept, but it seems too complex. It would be easier just to manipulate the horsecock back and forth, back and forth, back and forth, until the desired result were reached, which honestly might require some horseball massage as well, but that still seems easier than the surrogate horsecunt idea.

Had a spicy chicken biscuit for breakfast.
Metaphysician Undercover September 16, 2023 at 02:07 #837923
Quoting T Clark
I am skeptical there's any hidden meaning in the song.


I am skeptical there is any song without hidden meaning. I perceive hidden meaning in every song --- or maybe that's just me. But if I perceive it, and you do not, then doesn't that mean that it's hidden from you? Therefore it is hidden meaning. Agree?

Of course asking the author does no good, because if there is meaning which is intentionally hidden, the author couldn't tell you because then it would not be hidden.
BC September 16, 2023 at 04:26 #837941
Reply to Hanover Your second guess is what horse condoms are actually used for. They are placed inside of the ersatz horse vagina on an (apparently convincing framework of some sort) which the stallion mounts and copulates with, ejaculating copious horse semen into the rubber bag. This is all for the purpose of genetic engineering--the right stallion with the right mare, wherever they might be.

Sometimes the intended couple just can't stand each other and won't mate. Roll in the Ejacutron.

Left to their own devices, they'll maybe do it in the road and be done with it.

This all began with your confusing a horse cock with an umbrella. As Sigmund said, "a thing is phallic
if it's longer than it's wide."
T Clark September 16, 2023 at 06:06 #837950
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
I am skeptical there is any song without hidden meaning. I perceive hidden meaning in every song --- or maybe that's just me. But if I perceive it, and you do not, then doesn't that mean that it's hidden from you? Therefore it is hidden meaning. Agree?


People see what they see in songs, I won't argue with that, but I think the issue here is meanings that are intentionally hidden. I don't think the songwriters of those two songs intended any hidden drug references. I believe them when they say there aren't any.
LuckyR September 16, 2023 at 07:08 #837954
People see what they see in songs, I won't argue with that, but I think the issue here is meanings that are intentionally hidden. I don't think the songwriters of those two songs intended any hidden drug references. I believe them when they say there aren't any.

Reply to T Clark

Usually "hidden meanings" are like cloud animals, they're created from the mind of the viewer not the producer.
T Clark September 16, 2023 at 07:11 #837955
Quoting LuckyR
Usually "hidden meanings" are like cloud animals, they're created from the mind of the viewer not the producer.


People see patterns, even if there's nothing there. It's what we do. I guess it's what all animals with a nervous system do.
unenlightened September 16, 2023 at 08:21 #837962
Quoting T Clark
Usually "hidden meanings" are like cloud animals, they're created from the mind of the viewer not the producer.
— LuckyR

People see patterns, even if there's nothing there. It's what we do. I guess it's what all animals with a nervous system do.


Hence the non-existence of double-entendre, as the bishop never said to the actress.
Hanover September 16, 2023 at 11:38 #837990
Not a single "shana tovah" ?

Really?
javi2541997 September 16, 2023 at 12:10 #837998
Quoting Hanover
Not a single "shana tovah" ?


I am deeply sorry, Hanover. Shana tova u’metuka!

Pomegranates, wine, apple and honey. These are the main symbols of this ceremony; which one would you pick up?
Hanover September 16, 2023 at 21:28 #838118
Quoting T Clark
People see patterns, even if there's nothing there.


Then how do you know when there's actually a pattern or if you're just seeing one that's not there?
wonderer1 September 16, 2023 at 22:08 #838122
Quoting Hanover
Then how do you know when there's actually a pattern or if you're just seeing one that's not there?


Resort to other senses. For example, if you see a pattern that looks like a mean dog, you can stick your face down by the dog face you are seeing and snarl ferociously to see if you get audible or tactile confirmation.

T Clark September 17, 2023 at 00:00 #838130
Quoting Hanover
Then how do you know when there's actually a pattern or if you're just seeing one that's not there?


Philosophy. That's its only and entire purpose. That's all we do here all day - sort out the gooduns from the baduns.
jorndoe September 17, 2023 at 14:08 #838194
T Clark September 18, 2023 at 15:41 #838428
Quoting jorndoe
Ontario woman has 'no idea' why 1,000 condoms were shipped to her house (Sep 14, 2023) :D


Oh... Those were mine. I guess she got them by mistake.
Hanover September 18, 2023 at 19:15 #838497
Quoting T Clark
Oh... Those were mine. I guess she got them by mistake.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume your wife is beyond the age of pregnancy concern and you are not popular enough to possess any of the special diseases, so there would be no reason for you to own any condoms. But, let us assume she could get pregnant, and let us assume you had some cheese like infection you wished to save her from, do you think you even have the energy to open 1,000 condom packages?
Hanover September 18, 2023 at 20:28 #838516
A query I sent to Chat GPT. I'm not sure I agree, but I'm open to everyone's comments:

Q: "If one could choose either to make homemade pasta or homemade tomato sauce when using it as an ingredient in a lasagna, which should be chosen, and why. Please show your work."

A: "When making lasagna, both homemade pasta and homemade tomato sauce can enhance the flavor and quality of the dish. However, if you have to choose between making one from scratch, it's generally recommended to prioritize making homemade tomato sauce. Here's why:

Impact on Flavor: Tomato sauce is a significant component of lasagna, and a homemade sauce can provide a rich, fresh, and flavorful base for the dish. The quality of the sauce can greatly influence the overall taste of the lasagna.

Complexity and Time: Making pasta from scratch can be more time-consuming and requires specialized equipment like a pasta maker. Tomato sauce, on the other hand, can be made relatively quickly and easily with simple ingredients like tomatoes, onions, garlic, herbs, and olive oil.

Variety and Store-Bought Pasta: While homemade pasta can be delicious and have a unique texture, store-bought lasagna noodles are widely available and of good quality. They can still result in a tasty lasagna. Homemade tomato sauce, on the other hand, can offer a more significant improvement in flavor compared to store-bought sauce.

Versatility: Homemade tomato sauce can also be used for various other dishes like spaghetti, pizza, or as a base for other pasta dishes. Its versatility makes it a valuable homemade component in your kitchen.

Sauce as a Binding Element: Tomato sauce not only adds flavor but also serves as a binding element in lasagna, helping the layers hold together. Store-bought pasta, whether dried or fresh, can perform this role adequately.

In summary, while homemade pasta can be a fun and rewarding project, homemade tomato sauce is likely to have a more significant impact on the overall taste and quality of your lasagna. Additionally, making homemade tomato sauce is usually more accessible in terms of time and equipment, making it a practical choice when compared to making pasta from scratch for this specific dish."
BC September 18, 2023 at 23:17 #838542
Quoting Hanover
Sauce as a Binding Element: Tomato sauce not only adds flavor but also serves as a binding element in lasagna, helping the layers hold together. Store-bought pasta, whether dried or fresh, can perform this role adequately.


I do not think of sauce as a 'binding agent' in spaghetti, manicotti, or lasagna. Cheese or eggs are more of a 'binding agent'.

There is no reason for Chat GPT to know its ass from its elbow wen it comes to cooking, but it seems to have gotten confused about "binding agents'. First it says tomato sauce binds the layers together, then it says the pasta (which separates the layers) can perform the role of 'binding'.

Not important, really, but if it was answering a question about heart surgery, it would matter much more what it does or doesn't understand.

Pasta is not especially 'tasty'. It's a bland foundation for the fairly intensely flavored sauces, cheeses, sausages, clams, or whatever one adds to pasta. Chat GPT doesn't 'know' that.
T Clark September 19, 2023 at 00:07 #838550
Quoting Hanover
I'm open to everyone's comments


I have found that a single layer of condoms (unlubricated and unused) will add a nice touch of chewiness to any lasagna recipe.
wonderer1 September 19, 2023 at 01:41 #838556
Quoting T Clark
I have found that a single layer of condoms (unlubricated and unused) will add a nice touch of chewiness to any lasagna recipe.


With additional tomato sauce for added [s]binding[/s] lube? Or was your order for lubricated condoms?
praxis September 19, 2023 at 02:25 #838562
Speaking of baked condoms, our fig tree out back dropped a bundle of syconiums the other day and I made a compote of them with half a vanilla bean, a cinnamon stick, and a splash of lemon juice. Then I slathered a pork roast with it and put it in the oven. Pork is a sweet meat, you know.

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BC September 19, 2023 at 03:40 #838571
Reply to T Clark Or, fill the condoms with pasta+sauce. Convenient fro freezing and reheating, without losing the chewy factor. An alternative to condoms would be dental dams which are also made of latex. A single layer of latex dental dams would be even more chewy, plus, if you needed dental work right away, you'd have a mostaccioli-flavored dam. Nice.
Jamal September 19, 2023 at 03:58 #838572
Quoting praxis
our fig tree out back dropped a bundle of syconiums the other day


Adhering to botanical nomenclature, the fig is my favourite edible inflorescence. In culinary terms, it’s one of my favourite fruits. I’ve been eating them a lot lately, mostly just fresh with cheese, but they’re very expensive. The fact that you have your own tree makes me [s]sick[/s] very happy for you.

The fig-compote-slathered pork roast sounds very good.
javi2541997 September 19, 2023 at 04:44 #838576
Quoting praxis
Pork is a sweet meat, you know.


:up:

Sweet, light and delicious meat. Better than beef!
Tom Storm September 19, 2023 at 06:12 #838581
Reply to javi2541997 Hitchens tells us that pork cooking smells the closest to human flesh cooking. Probably tastes similar. I eat meat but I’m not a big fan. Rather sausages or a curry than some bloody hideous steak.
javi2541997 September 19, 2023 at 07:33 #838583
Quoting Tom Storm
Hitchens tells us that pork cooking smells the closest to human flesh cooking.


Interesting data!

Quoting Tom Storm
I eat meat but I’m not a big fan. Rather sausages or a curry than some bloody hideous steak.


I don't tend to eat bloody steaks either. I rather eat it with Jamón slices accompanied by bread, oil and grated tomato.
My mother also cooks filete ruso ("Russian steaks": pig meat with grated bread. Similar to meatballs).

Hanover September 19, 2023 at 10:07 #838598
I had a massive fight tree many years ago in my back yard. It will fulfill my annual fig needs of 2 to 3 figs per annum nicely.

I had an apple tree as well, planted by Johnny Appleseed himself, who would (little known fact) later go on to found Applebee's Neighborhood Grill, offering the finest microwaved Americana dishes anywhere.

And, no, my discussion of Applebee's has nothing to do with spellcheck having changed "Appleseed" to "Applebee's" and then me working that in.
Hanover September 19, 2023 at 10:10 #838599
Another little known factoid: A stuck pig sounds most like a complaining human than any other animal.
Jamal September 19, 2023 at 10:15 #838601
Quoting Hanover
I had a massive fight tree


You must have picked many fights.
Hanover September 19, 2023 at 12:11 #838615
Quoting Jamal
You must have picked many fights.


Spellcheck thinks it's so fucking funny the way it pretends to create these kinds of errors, but I find it puerile.

Hanover September 19, 2023 at 12:18 #838617
If one carefully removes the intestinal packaging surrounding their favorite sausage, it can then be used as a penis sheeth to avoid pregnancy. My former countless lovers would often remark of my delictable fennel flavor as we would lie about after an afternoon of sausage casing protected lovemaking.

I did from time to time suffer from penile trichinosis due to the undercooked pork product, but it was nothing a diesel bath wouldn't cure.
T Clark September 19, 2023 at 14:48 #838658
Quoting wonderer1
lubricated


As I noted, unlubricated and unused.
T Clark September 19, 2023 at 14:52 #838661
Quoting BC
Or, fill the condoms with pasta+sauce. Convenient fro freezing and reheating, without losing the chewy factor. An alternative to condoms would be dental dams which are also made of latex. A single layer of latex dental dams would be even more chewy, plus, if you needed dental work right away, you'd have a mostaccioli-flavored dam. Nice.


Now you're just being ridiculous.
T Clark September 19, 2023 at 15:27 #838669
I was back and forth as to whether this belongs in my fun-related truck crash series, but decided to include it for completeness.

Quoting NBC News
Bears raid Krispy Kreme doughnut van making deliveries on Alaska military base

JOINT BASE ELMENDORF-RICHARDSON, Alaska (AP) — Two bears on an Alaska military base raided a Krispy Kreme doughnut van that was stopped outside a convenience store during its delivery route.

The driver usually left his doors open when he stopped at the store but this time a sow and one of her cubs that loiter nearby sauntered inside, where they stayed for probably 20 minutes Tuesday morning, said Shelly Deano, the store manager for Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson JMM Express. The bears chomped on doughnut holes and other pastries, ignoring the banging on the side of the van that was aimed at shooing them away, Deano said.


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Baden September 19, 2023 at 16:26 #838683
Quoting Hanover
Spellcheck thinks it's so fucking funny the way it pretends to create these kinds of errors, but I find it puerile.


I made the mistake the other way around and ended up joining fig club. On the positive side, kicking the crap out of those fruit fans was a piece of cake.

praxis September 19, 2023 at 16:46 #838688
Quoting Jamal
Adhering to botanical nomenclature, the fig is my favourite edible inflorescence. In culinary terms, it’s one of my favourite fruits. I’ve been eating them a lot lately, mostly just fresh with cheese, but they’re very expensive. The fact that you have your own tree makes me sick very happy for you.


Eat your inflorescent heart out. :razz:

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Dropped a couple into my green smoothie this morning and they added a nice flavor and sweetness.



Hanover September 19, 2023 at 17:25 #838696
I am reminded of figgy pudding, a dessert not served in the US but only known from television shows of Brits talking about it. I would imagine it is like fig preserves but perhaps creamier because that is what I mean when I say the word "pudding."
Jamal September 19, 2023 at 18:57 #838711
Quoting Hanover
figgy pudding


I know nothing of figgy pudding. My early fig exposure was fig rolls, which I think you might know as fig newtons. I don’t think I saw an actual fig until I was well into grownuphood. Not sure why.
BC September 19, 2023 at 23:30 #838761
Quoting Hanover
creamier because that is what I mean when I say the word "pudding."


Most people likely associate creamy and pudding (or Jello Pudding). But "Yorkshire Pudding" is a popover served with beef drippings or gravy. Suet pudding is made of raisins, apples, carrots, flour and beef fat (suet). It's steamed for 3 hours, and becomes cake-like. It's served with a dessert sauce. Great stuff. I make a pretty good pudding with milk, eggs, corn starch, and vanilla. It's not elegant, but it is definitely pudding.
T Clark September 21, 2023 at 00:09 #839039
Quoting praxis
Eat your inflorescent heart out.


Quoting Jamal
I don’t think I saw an actual fig until I was well into grownuphood.


I think I've mentioned here previously that we had persimmon trees in our yard. My grandfather also had a fig tree by his barn. Persimmons and figs are very closely related, not necessarily biologically, but in terms of their primary use for throwing at your brother.
praxis September 21, 2023 at 01:54 #839052
I tried making figgy pancakes this morning, stirring a fig into the batter. They didn't cook and the result was more like figgy pudding with a thin burnt crust. I should have just topped the cakes with sliced figs. Oh well, nothing ventured nothing gained.
Hanover September 21, 2023 at 03:30 #839065
Quoting T Clark
grandfather also had a fig tree by his barn.


And my grandmother had one by her house.

Sounds like, hate to say it, they were getting it on when we weren't looking.
Hanover September 21, 2023 at 03:34 #839066
Quoting praxis
I tried making figgy pancakes this morning, stirring a fig into the batter.


Did you smash up the figs or just put a few whole uncut figs in the mix? If the latter, the fig bite would be whole different experience than the non fig bite, but not as bad if you'd have made them with whole watermelons.
Hanover September 21, 2023 at 03:36 #839067
Quoting Jamal
I don’t think I saw an actual fig until I was well into grownuphood. Not sure why.


I think you were right to wait. It gave you a chance to be a kid.
T Clark September 21, 2023 at 03:43 #839069
Quoting Hanover
Sounds like, hate to say it, they were getting it on when we weren't looking.


Unlikely. My grandfather died in 1961. If they had ever met it's more likely she chucked figs at him. He was a grouchy son of a bitch.
javi2541997 September 22, 2023 at 04:58 #839394
I asked Google: "When does autumn start in 2023?" And then, the answers said: "This year, the autumn equinox will begin on Saturday, September 23, at 2:50 a.m. and will last until the winter solstice on Thursday, December 21, at 10:27 a.m."
When does autumn start in 2023 and what is the autumnal equinox?

When I was younger, autumn used to start around September 21st, if I am not wrong.

Autumn has always been my favourite season. I like how the leaves of the trees rest on the floor, and they are coloured gold and orange. I love rainy days too. But it seems that according to meteorologists, autumn will be a short season. It will not be long, just two months. I wish it could be six months long. :flower:
unenlightened September 22, 2023 at 10:21 #839422
Reply to javi2541997

A season is a division of the year[1] based on changes in weather, ecology, and the number of daylight hours in a given region.
[snip]
In temperate and sub-polar regions, four seasons based on the Gregorian calendar are generally recognized: spring, summer, autumn (or fall), and winter. Ecologists often use a six-season model for temperate climate regions which are not tied to any fixed calendar dates: prevernal, vernal, estival, serotinal, autumnal, and hibernal. Many tropical regions have two seasons: the rainy, wet, or monsoon season and the dry season. Some have a third cool, mild, or harmattan season. "Seasons" can also be dictated by the timing of important ecological events such as hurricane season, tornado season, and wildfire season.[citation needed] Some examples of historical importance are the ancient Egyptian seasons—flood, growth, and low water—which were previously defined by the former annual flooding of the Nile in Egypt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Season#Elliptical_Earth_orbit

Alas, Google teaches that there is always a right answer to every question, when in fact vagueness rules. In this case, the Northern temperate zone bias is very obvious, but even then, in terms of sunlight levels that use of the equinox as a marker rather than weather seems to indicate, , and assuming an equal division of 4 seasons, the equinox should mark the middle of the season rather than the beginning or end.

But these terms are conventional and local. At the poles, the equinoxes mark sunrise and sunset of a year-long single day.
javi2541997 September 22, 2023 at 11:24 #839434
Reply to unenlightened Hey, thank you. :up:

A very useful data. Weather and meteorology are topics that interested me for years. But I do not have enough knowledge on the matter, because these are a subject of physics and mathematics. Yet, equinox and seasons are always fascinated me, at least in a poetic way.
BC September 22, 2023 at 18:38 #839581
Reply to javi2541997 I don't know anything so I asked Google why this year's autumnal equinox is on the 23rd of September, and not the 21st? Google (quoting Wikipedia) says...

"The September equinox (or southward equinox) is the moment when the Sun appears to cross the celestial equator, heading southward. Because of differences between the calendar year and the tropical year, the September equinox may occur from September 21 to 24." So mañana.

I'm guessing that a difference in dates is possible because the planet wobbles a bit over time on its axis. The earth is round, but not perfectly round.

I like fall, autumn, as well, and I like The Autumn Leaves, September Song, The Leaves that Are Green turn to Brown, and other songs about autumn, fall. The leaves here in Minnesota are starting to turn, but after two years of hot dry summers, we are not sure whether the colors will be bright or dull.
javi2541997 September 22, 2023 at 19:20 #839596
Quoting BC
I'm guessing that a difference in dates is possible because the planet wobbles a bit over time on its axis. The earth is round, but not perfectly round.


Thanks BC, your explanation is quite good. Now that you have expressed it, you are right. The earth is not perfectly round.

Quoting BC
The leaves here in Minnesota are starting to turn, but after two years of hot dry summers, we are not sure whether the colors will be bright or dull.


Understood, but I imagine Minnesota is a very gorgeous country anyway.
Metaphysician Undercover September 23, 2023 at 02:00 #839683
Quoting javi2541997
But it seems that according to meteorologists, autumn will be a short season. It will not be long, just two months.


No, no, no, you're counting wrong. How many fingers do you have javi? October, November, December, that makes three months. Autumn is a quarter of the year, always has, and always will be. The problem is with the leap years, they always screw everything up. On top of that, the rate of spin of the earth is not even considered to be constant.
BC September 23, 2023 at 02:59 #839692
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover Whether 3/3/3/3 works or not depends on where you live. Up north here, December is usually winter, and November can be wintry as well. September is more like summer, so that leaves October as the sole month of autumn, And even then, the perfect autumnal weather may happen on one day and be over the next.
BC September 23, 2023 at 03:17 #839694
Reply to javi2541997 Parts of it are really nice. Some parts of it are boring,

NE Minnesota on Lake Superior

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SW Minnesota prairies.

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Autumn in SE Minnesota near Mississippi River

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jorndoe September 23, 2023 at 03:46 #839700
:) Yeap

Opinion | Why socialism fear-mongering is bananas
[sup]— Robert Reich · AlterNet · Sep 22, 2023[/sup]

Stigmatize a word and abuse it. Old tactic.

javi2541997 September 23, 2023 at 05:55 #839711
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
No, no, no, you're counting wrong. How many fingers do you have javi?


:rofl:

Reply to Metaphysician Undercover Firstly, I promise I wasn't the one who counted wrongly! I just copied the information from Google. Yes, autumn lasts three months: October, November, December. I think what Google meant is what you posted too: the leap of the years and the spin of the years are not constant.
Yet, I have usually read on the internet that spring and autumn seasons will be "shorter" due to climate change. Of course, they will still last the respective months, but maybe not with the same impact as before. Conclusion: Google seems to warn us about cosy autumn and hot spring weather!
javi2541997 September 23, 2023 at 06:16 #839712
Reply to BC Pretty beautiful! I really like landscapes and plain lands. Farms and wasteland are good places too. Coasts and beaches are not my cup of tea.


Madrid (the neighbourhood where I live in)

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Those golden and ochre leaves of the trees are gorgeous worldwide!

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Moliere September 23, 2023 at 07:48 #839723
Reply to BC The joke I always tell is "we got our 2 weeks of autumn!" (or spring)

Sometimes it lasts longer than that. But sometimes....
Metaphysician Undercover September 23, 2023 at 12:20 #839764
Quoting javi2541997
Yet, I have usually read on the internet that spring and autumn seasons will be "shorter" due to climate change


In my area, summerlike weather often extends later into the fall, then suddenly there is a switch to winter-like weather. The same thing can happen in the spring, winter-like weather persists, then as if someone throws a switch, the heat of summer appears. So the traditional spring and fall weather seem to get obliterated. This all seems to be a part of a pattern of greater extremes in the weather, and the swinging from one extreme to the other, too dry, then suddenly too wet, too hot then too cold.

It serves well to demonstrate that averages are not very good representations. When they state the average temperature for a day, you'll even hear some forecasters refer to this as the "normal temperature". Obviously though, the average is not the normal, as the normal is a fluctuation from one side of the average to the other.

Then, with respect to the extremes, the engineers will produce a once in ten year event model, and a once in a hundred year event model, to show the potential for flooding, extreme drought, heat or cold, but these ought to be considered as mere conjectures. We really do not know how wildly, and how often, the pendulum may swing from one extreme to the other.

Quoting javi2541997
Conclusion: Google seems to warn us about cosy autumn and hot spring weather!


Better conclusion: Google doesn't know how to count.
javi2541997 September 23, 2023 at 13:24 #839781
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
We really do not know how wildly, and how often, the pendulum may swing from one extreme to the other.


I agree, and the rest of the post is perfectly written and explained. Here in Madrid the summertime is hot and drought, and winter softly cold. Yet, it is difficult to describe autumn and spring. The first can be cold at night, but the daytime is sunny. For example: Autumn just started today, but we currently have 21 C°. :roll: Spring can have as hot days as summer. I even consider May a summer month, while it is clearly part of spring. I am counting correctly now!

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Better conclusion: Google doesn't know how to count.


I agree with this too. I beg your pardon for not using Microsoft Edge or DuckDuckGo!
Baden September 23, 2023 at 16:23 #839819
Quoting javi2541997
Yes, autumn lasts three months: October, November, December.


In Ireland, it's August, September, October traditionally.
javi2541997 September 23, 2023 at 17:37 #839842
Quoting Baden
In Ireland, it's August, September, October traditionally.


Interesting. If my logic is not flawed, that means that winters last longer in Ireland: November, December, January and February.
I wish autumn would start early in Spain. The summers and high temperatures, are unbearable usually....
Jamal September 23, 2023 at 18:37 #839852
Reply to Baden
Reply to javi2541997

I googled it, because I’d never heard of autumn beginning in August. Turns out the Irish calendar uses astronomical seasons rather than meteorological, and for whatever reason that’s the one that’s commonly referred to when it comes to seasons. It’s not about the weather and the trees—which probably aren’t very different from Scotland. In Scotland, only a contemptible eccentric would say that autumn begins in August.

I cycled 150 kilometres today in a circumnavigation of Moscow, mostly through parks. It was quite autumnal, but not very. Many of the trees were still green, and there were sunbathers.
T Clark September 23, 2023 at 18:42 #839855
Quoting Jamal
It was quite autumnal, but not very. Many of the trees were still green, and there were sunbathers.


Funny - that's exactly what one of Napoleon's spies sent in a dispatch in 1812.
Jamal September 23, 2023 at 18:43 #839857
Reply to T Clark And look what happened to him!
javi2541997 September 23, 2023 at 18:51 #839858
Quoting Jamal
I googled it, because I’d never heard of autumn beginning in August. Turns out the Irish calendar uses astronomical seasons rather than meteorological,


Oh, wow! I never heard that autumn beginning in August either. But it is really stunning that the Irish use the astronomical calendar. It is so magical, from their Gaelic runes and wizards. :sparkle:
Jamal September 23, 2023 at 18:58 #839860
Reply to javi2541997 Yes, it’s kind of a shame that it was the leprechaun that became most famous.
T Clark September 23, 2023 at 20:13 #839870
Quoting Jamal
And look what happened to him!


Yes, so I've heard. He killed millions of people and the French still love him. But then, they love Jerry Lewis too. Perhaps there's a connection.
unenlightened September 23, 2023 at 20:52 #839876
In the UK, summer consists of three warm days and a thunderstorm; all the rest is cold and wet except in February alone, which is even worse. But with global warming, we now sometimes get two summers in a good year.
BC September 23, 2023 at 23:38 #839890
Weather Report: It's raining -- finally. Parts of Minnesota are in "extraordinary drought" which is worse than "severe drought".

Hanover September 24, 2023 at 02:44 #839912
User image The fair comes at the start of Fall. I got there early before all the food places opened so I could attend the hiefer show.User image
User image

T Clark September 24, 2023 at 03:19 #839924
Reply to Hanover

But no Pork Chops on a Stick.
Baden September 24, 2023 at 04:52 #839931
Quoting javi2541997
November, December, January and February.


February is spring here, my dude.

Quoting Jamal
In Scotland, only a contemptible eccentric would say that autumn begins in August.


My kind of people. :cool:

Quoting javi2541997
It is so magical, from their Gaelic runes and wizards. :sparkle:


:starstruck:
javi2541997 September 24, 2023 at 05:26 #839937
Quoting Baden
February is spring here, my dude.


The power of runes' magic! :flower:
Hanover September 24, 2023 at 15:30 #840003
It got cool here quickly. It's 63 f, which is 20 degrees SST (Shoutbox Standard Temperature).

SST = ((Fahrenheit + its Celcius equivalent) / 4). It's the unit the Shoutbox Standards and Measures Board has used in the Shoutbox since 19 aught 11ty 12.
Hanover September 24, 2023 at 15:35 #840004
unenlightened September 24, 2023 at 16:50 #840011
I notice someone has forgotten the first rule of alien club.
Metaphysician Undercover September 25, 2023 at 01:58 #840096
Reply to Hanover That sky is beautiful! I just love to see a deep blue sky like that. The blueness almost hurts my eyes because it seems somehow unreal. But it gives me comfort to know there's still some ozone left.
T Clark September 25, 2023 at 02:05 #840097
Quoting Hanover
It got cool here quickly. It's 63 f, which is 20 degrees SST (Shoutbox Standard Temperature).


That's like in Indiana where they passed a law that declared that pi = 3. That was in 1897. It is my understanding that they outlawed it completely while Mike Pence was governor there.
javi2541997 September 25, 2023 at 05:07 #840108
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
The blueness almost hurts my eyes because it seems somehow unreal.


It is pretty beautiful, absolutely. But, would you rather a big blue summer sky or a melancholic purple autumn sky?
Jamal September 25, 2023 at 05:40 #840109
Reply to javi2541997 Blue!

User image

Pale blue sky with autumnal colours helpfully accented by a building and a small utility vehicle.
jorndoe September 25, 2023 at 05:55 #840111
javi2541997 September 25, 2023 at 06:13 #840113
Quoting Jamal
Pale blue sky with autumnal colours helpfully accented by a building and a small utility vehicle.


:up:

That picture is artistic, and yes, very gorgeous. Everything is perfectly posted, like a portrait. I love the different tones of the tree: golden-brown, ochre, pale green, etc.
A clear proof that Russia is a very beautiful country, if I am not mistaken in guessing the country!
Jamal September 25, 2023 at 06:21 #840114
Reply to javi2541997 Thank you, you are not mistaken. There is no shortage of trees, so it’s pretty good in autumn.
javi2541997 September 25, 2023 at 06:32 #840116
Quoting Jamal
There is no shortage of trees, so it’s pretty good in autumn.


It is, indeed! :up:
Hanover September 25, 2023 at 14:22 #840160
Quoting Jamal
Pale blue sky with autumnal colours helpfully accented by a building and a small utility vehicle.


Russian blue pales in comparison to Georgia blue. It's embarrassing really.
Jamal September 25, 2023 at 14:54 #840165
Reply to Hanover

Took this on the same day at the cinema museum. The sky (unenhanced) is significantly bluer than yours, I think you'll agree.

User image
Hanover September 25, 2023 at 14:57 #840166
Quoting Jamal
Took this on the same day at the cinema museum. The sky (unenhanced) is significantly bluer than yours, I think you'll agree.


Yours is a very dark blue, one that suggests saddness and a lack of hope. The blue I submitted was a joyous blue, one that brings forth happiness and unlimited possibilities. I think you'll agree.
Jamal September 25, 2023 at 15:07 #840171
Reply to Hanover The exposure is knocked down so as not to overexpose the white building, so it’s darker than perceived reality. Even so, it really was very blue. Can’t we just agree that the sky is equally blue all over the world, given the same humidity, air quality, etc.?

That said, I do love the skies of Georgia:

User image
Baden September 25, 2023 at 15:07 #840172
Hate to say it, but @Hanover nailed the blue wars there. There's a painting in the Tate modern that is pretty close to just that blue actually. Up your game @Jamal.
Baden September 25, 2023 at 15:09 #840173
Quoting Jamal
Can’t we just agree that the sky is equally blue all over the world, given the same humidity, air quality, etc.?


For the sake of pointless argument, no.



Jamal September 25, 2023 at 15:13 #840174
The bluest blue I’ve seen was the Klein blue paintings and sculptures in a gallery in Nice. I guess we wouldn’t want the sky to be that colour.
Baden September 25, 2023 at 15:28 #840177
Reply to Jamal

It was one of those in the Tate. :up:
Baden September 25, 2023 at 15:29 #840178
Quoting Jamal
I guess we wouldn’t want the sky to be that colour.


My memory on that colour might have been a little off...
Jamal September 25, 2023 at 15:34 #840180
Reply to Baden Colour memory is a fickle mistress.
Hanover September 25, 2023 at 15:59 #840188
Quoting Jamal
The exposure is knocked down so as not to overexpose the white building, so it’s darker than perceived reality.


How can something be darker than perceived reality? "Perceived" reality, to the extent it is distinct from actual reality, is whatever I perceive, meaning the blue of your picture is the blue I perceive and so it cannot be darker than the perceived reality. It is perceived reality.

I think what you mean to say is the blue in the picture is different from the blue your eyeballs actually saw prior to your taking the picture but you manipulated it so as to draw some sort of contrast in your photo.

Now here's the problem. If you have manipulated the blue, how can I trust anything you do? I mean, maybe you're going to turn this dial, that dial, do a little this, do a little that, and now the sky is silver and I'd be all impressed, but then you'd tell me it was all manipulation. I mean, who are you?

Then there's the issue of "will the real Georgia please stand up," as if those mountains show the true Georgia and not my homeland, the land of my ansectors, land of the pilgrim's pride to every mountainside and you throw that at me. I mean, how would you feel if I let you know that this was the one true Scotland:

User image

This picture above is where Mel Gibson and his band of Bravehearts fought for. Now you know how I felt when you showed me those mountains.
Hanover September 25, 2023 at 16:00 #840189
By the way, that sky over Scotland, Georgia is about the bluest sky I've ever seen. One thing we Georgians do well is blue. That's for damn sure.
T Clark September 25, 2023 at 16:47 #840196
Reply to Jamal

I like this one the best. I guess it's because of the clouds. If you look, you can see pictures. For example, in this one I see two old farts bickering about nothing, cackling while they drool on their keyboards.
T Clark September 25, 2023 at 19:22 #840229
Quoting Hanover
By the way, that sky over Scotland, Georgia is about the bluest sky I've ever seen. One thing we Georgians do well is blue. That's for damn sure.


I like that they have a soda machine right next to the city hall. All they need now is some rockers and a spittoon.
Hanover September 25, 2023 at 19:41 #840236
Quoting T Clark
I like that they have a soda machine right next to the city hall. All they need now is some rockers and a spittoon.


What surprised me about the "soda" machine, is that it appears to sell Pepsi, which is pretty unusual in Georgia, home to Coca-Cola. We don't call it soda down here. We call it "Coke," meaning that what you see in the picture is a Coke machine that sells Pepsi. Some people's favorite type of Coke is Pepsi I guess.
T Clark September 25, 2023 at 20:30 #840251
Reply to Hanover

Here's a map I'm sure somebody has shown on the forum before.

User image
praxis September 25, 2023 at 23:31 #840304
Seems kinda childish to call a soda a 'pop'. 'coke' is just one kind of soda. And it's just plain weird to call a soda 'other'.
Sir2u September 26, 2023 at 00:22 #840330
R.I.P.

David McCallum

NCIS, The Man From U.N.C.L.E star
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 02:30 #840360
Quoting praxis
Seems kinda childish to call a soda a 'pop'. 'coke' is just one kind of soda. And it's just plain weird to call a soda 'other'.


Kleenex, xerox, band-aid, bobcat, formica, frisbee...
Noble Dust September 26, 2023 at 03:48 #840372
Reply to T Clark

I'm very curious about the rare "80%-100% Other" counties.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 04:33 #840383
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm very curious about the rare "80%-100% Other" counties.


Here's the webpage by state.

https://popvssoda.com/statistics/ALL.html

Looks like the biggest "other" states are North Carolina and New Mexico. Click on the state name and it gives you a list of the other names.
javi2541997 September 26, 2023 at 04:57 #840387
Quoting Sir2u
R.I.P.

David McCallum


R.I.P

I only remember David McCallum in his role of doctor on NCIS. Good memories.

I think it was one of the first series I started to watch in English as a kid, with my mother.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 05:46 #840390
Quoting javi2541997
I only remember David McCallum in his role of doctor on NCIS.


Those of us who are old enough knew him as Illya Kuryakin, a spy on "The Man from UNCLE." That stood for United Network Command for Law and Enforcement. His partner was Napoleon Solo, played by Robert Vaughn, with whom I once rode on an elevator. We nodded to each other and said "hi."

Since we're talking about it, I also once saw Sonia Sotomayor at a very fancy restaurant in DC; Arlo Guthrie sitting on a bench in Harvard Square Cambridge; Richard Dryfus in the Baskin Robins in Central Square Cambridge where I was working; Michael Dukakis riding on the Green Line subway in Boston, which was no big deal because he rode the T to work every day when he was governor; and Godfrey Cambridge in NYC.

And I know a man who saw Chubby Checker naked.
BC September 26, 2023 at 05:52 #840391
Reply to T Clark Does anybody remember Shasta soft drinks? Royal Crown? O So Grape?

The filling station next door had a pop dispenser; the bottles stood in (probably filthy) cold water; there were channels to move the bottle along to a gate which opened after the dime had been inserted. It also sold Coca Cola snd somebody's root beer and orange crush. The O So Grape was Concord grape flavored, It's still made.

javi2541997 September 26, 2023 at 06:01 #840394
Reply to T Clark I am not old enough to recognise most of the people you have mentioned, with only two exceptions: Sonia Sotomayor (she is a judge on the U.S. Supreme Court) and Michael Dukakis (he ran for the 1988 presidency against Bush's father, if I am not mistaken)

Jamal September 26, 2023 at 06:21 #840395
Quoting Hanover
How can something be darker than perceived reality? "Perceived" reality, to the extent it is distinct from actual reality, is whatever I perceive, meaning the blue of your picture is the blue I perceive and so it cannot be darker than the perceived reality. It is perceived reality.

I think what you mean to say is the blue in the picture is different from the blue your eyeballs actually saw prior to your taking the picture but you manipulated it so as to draw some sort of contrast in your photo.

Now here's the problem. If you have manipulated the blue, how can I trust anything you do? I mean, maybe you're going to turn this dial, that dial, do a little this, do a little that, and now the sky is silver and I'd be all impressed, but then you'd tell me it was all manipulation. I mean, who are you?


Unless you shoot in RAW mode, all photographs are manipulated, either by the photographer or by the camera itself, whose settings define the manipulations. This is especially true if you don’t set the exposure manually. I was using a phone that decided to expose based on the building, and I applied no manipulation in post-production.

But yes, by “perceived reality” I was referring to the world—including the sky—as perceived in that place.

Quoting Hanover
Then there's the issue of "will the real Georgia please stand up," as if those mountains show the true Georgia and not my homeland, the land of my ansectors, land of the pilgrim's pride to every mountainside and you throw that at me. I mean, how would you feel if I let you know that this was the one true Scotland:


I’m okay with that, if it pleases you to so do.

Quoting T Clark
Here's a map I'm sure somebody has shown on the forum before


In Scotland, some people still use the term ginger to mean any sweet carbonated soft drink. Maybe it’s because of the colour of Irn Bru. Otherwise they say juice.

In Russia they use limonad in the same way.

In the North of England they usually say pop.

I say fizzy juice.


T Clark September 26, 2023 at 07:47 #840407
Quoting BC
Does anybody remember Shasta soft drinks? Royal Crown? O So Grape?


I remember Royal Crown Cola, which I never liked. It was even sweeter than Pepsi. I also remember the dispensers you're talking about. I'm old enough to remember when the first pop-top cans came out. There was a soda machine at a nearby gas station that sold cans and it had a can opener that worked by pulling down on a lever. Then one day, the cans had pop-tops. I felt sorry for the poor can opener with nothing to do.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 07:47 #840408
Reply to javi2541997

You are correct on both counts.
Metaphysician Undercover September 26, 2023 at 11:02 #840431
Quoting T Clark
I remember Royal Crown Cola,


Good old Arsey Cola, with a name like that, no wonder they didn't go far. Or did they? I think they merged with Dr Pepper or something like that. Now they're boosting the caffeine level, an energy drink is much better suited for the name "arsey". If I was 15 again, I'd buy it for the name.
Metaphysician Undercover September 26, 2023 at 11:51 #840443
Quoting T Clark
Since we're talking about it, I also once saw Sonia Sotomayor at a very fancy restaurant in DC; Arlo Guthrie sitting on a bench in Harvard Square Cambridge; Richard Dryfus in the Baskin Robins in Central Square Cambridge where I was working; Michael Dukakis riding on the Green Line subway in Boston, which was no big deal because he rode the T to work every day when he was governor; and Godfrey Cambridge in NYC.


Sure you did T.C., just like i saw drug references in Merry Poppins.
Sir2u September 26, 2023 at 11:58 #840449
Quoting T Clark
And I know a man who saw Chubby Checker naked.


Show off. :rofl:
Sir2u September 26, 2023 at 12:43 #840456
Quoting BC
Does anybody remember Shasta soft drinks? Royal Crown? O So Grape?


2 out of 3, never liked grape drinks (except wine) so I probably never drank any. I don't remember the vending machines though. The oldest one I do remember was at a nearby gas station, was like the picture. I think it was probable one of the first ones of its type to come out because even back the it was old and got stuck sometimes. The old fart used to put everything in it, coke, pepsi, even beer.

User image
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 13:04 #840460
RC Cola goes with Moon Pies. Neither are all that good, but it's a traditional pairing. https://deepsouthmag.com/2022/04/11/rc-cola-and-a-moonpie-the-working-mans-lunch/
Noble Dust September 26, 2023 at 15:10 #840502
Reply to T Clark

Uh huh. Uh. Yeah. So is Tarzan Slam really a thing? It pops up everywhere on the list.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 16:21 #840522
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Good old Arsey Cola, with a name like that, no wonder they didn't go far. Or did they? I think they merged with Dr Pepper or something like that. Now they're boosting the caffeine level, an energy drink is much better suited for the name "arsey". If I was 15 again, I'd buy it for the name.


It was RC for "Royal Crown." I always associated it with the south like Miracle Whip, boiled peanuts, and Karo syrup. I'm not sure if that's correct.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 16:24 #840523
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Sure you did T.C., just like i saw drug references in Merry Poppins.


You find my list hard to believe? These are B level celebrities at best. If I told you I had dinner with Taylor Swift and Beyonce, perhaps that would be difficult to believe. But I promised them I wouldn't talk about it.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 16:25 #840525
Quoting Noble Dust
Uh huh. Uh. Yeah. So is Tarzan Slam really a thing? It pops up everywhere on the list.


Sounds like something they would drink in Ohio.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 16:27 #840527
Quoting Hanover
RC Cola goes with Moon Pies.


Yes, I left out Moon Pies from my list.
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 17:16 #840546
Reply to T Clark

When I was a kid, there was this man at my synagogue who had this really big chin and he talked really quiet, and he used to come tell me and my brothers how he had recently seen various celebrities here and there like it was this amazing encounter. My brothers and I would sometimes make up stories about celebrities we recently saw and we'd jut out our chins and say it in a whisper..

That's how I imagine you're saying it when you tell me your stories.

Mockery is the sincerest form of flattery..
Baden September 26, 2023 at 17:20 #840548
World renowned war photographer James Nachtwey once told me to fuck off. :heart:
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 17:23 #840549
Another synagogue story.

Once this middle aged lady was watching us as we got in our car and my younger brother said "why don't you take a picture? It lasts longer." He didn't realize the window was down and she heard him. Teach her to stare.

A frat story.

All these guys were in a dark room smoking weed and one said the problem with the fraternity was that it had losers like Andy in. Had he been less stoned and there had been more light, he'd have seen Andy sitting right there. Teach him to be a loser.

I think this is a form of the Gettier problem where there is a truth that is concealed but accidently revealed.
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 17:27 #840554
I was at a play in Broadway that Molly Ringwald starred in and afterwards she was signing the playbills. I was going to get my signed and tell her that I loved her in "Pretty in Pink," but instead I just walked by slowly and was able to actually get an awkward glance back. She probably remembers me to this day as the one that got away.
praxis September 26, 2023 at 17:43 #840559
Quoting Baden
World renowned war photographer James Nachtwey once told me to fuck off.


World-renowned tennis pro Billy Jean King once slapped my hand. Celebrities can be such cunts.
Baden September 26, 2023 at 17:48 #840560
Reply to praxis

In my case, it was my fault. Nachtwey is a legend.
praxis September 26, 2023 at 17:50 #840562
Reply to Baden

A story that you must tell, unless it's boring. My BJK story isn't worth telling.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 18:01 #840564
Quoting Hanover
That's how I imagine you're saying it when you tell me your stories.


This is exactly correct.

Quoting Hanover
Mockery is the sincerest form of flattery..


I am deeply moved.
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 18:19 #840568
Quoting Baden
World renowned war photographer James Nachtwey once told me to fuck off. :heart:


Nachtwey worked for me as an apprentice, trying to master my command of the color blue.
praxis September 26, 2023 at 21:50 #840608
Reply to Hanover

In an interview, he said that he didn't like to compete with color so he abstracted pictures into black & white, and also claimed that abstracting to black & white distills the essence of the subject.

If I asked him how he could distill the essence of an orange without the color orange I imagine he'd tell me to fuck off.
Moliere September 26, 2023 at 22:09 #840614
Reply to T Clark

Looking at the "other" categories made me laugh. Especially the paragraph-length entries :D -- they must have just let people put anything in "other", and let that appear again as a topic to get re-votes.
T Clark September 26, 2023 at 22:11 #840616
Quoting Moliere
Looking at the "other" categories made me laugh. Especially the paragraph-length entries :D -- they must have just let people put anything in "other", and let that appear again as a topic to get re-votes.


Yes. I don't see why they can't all just call it "soda" like us normal people.
Moliere September 26, 2023 at 22:12 #840618
Reply to T Clark Indeed! Or, as in North Carolina's entry:

""Drink". Other areas of the country think of "drink" as an alcoholic beverage. When I first moved to Oregon, I was at a PTA function with my kids, and asked the lady at the refreshment table for a drink. She looked a little shocked and said to me "I'm sorry, Miss, but alcohol is prohibited from school functions."
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 23:14 #840629
Quoting praxis
I asked him how he could distill the essence of an orange without the color orange I imagine he'd tell me to fuck off.


He seems temperamental. I guess it's good to be passionate about something, but he might find it socially limiting to tell everyone to fuck off.
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 23:22 #840634
When I grew up in Popperland, we called sodas fizzlefazzers and if you had two in a sitting, they were called doubledazzers. My babydoll in Popperland used to guzzlegore on the fizzlefazzers until her lips turned blue as the Autumnal Ruski heavens.

Once when she got all hopped up, she polkadanced to 3 am, taking lovers who didn't mean her well, but crashed hard she did, right back into my arms. I didn't hold that against her. Fizzlefazzers in Popperland bring too much to bear even upon the most prudish.

True story.
Hanover September 26, 2023 at 23:29 #840637
I think that story was somewhere between The Looking Glass and Dr. Suess.
Baden September 27, 2023 at 01:53 #840662
@praxis @Hanover

:lol:

I met Nachtwey while I was clumsily doing photojournalism during the Thai yellow shirt vs red shirt protests. I didn't know who he was at the time. I also didn't know he'd been shot in the leg a couple of days before while covering this stuff. Anyway, I got in the way of his shot and he politely asked me to move. I not so politely didn't move and he gave me an earful. I realised I was in the wrong and apologised. I then had a short chat to him finding it odd that people were coming up to him asking for his autograph.

I was stupid. He is great. The end.
praxis September 27, 2023 at 03:25 #840675
Reply to Baden

I looked it up and it appears that he took the shot anyway.

User image

You must be stubborn as hell. Cute little ears though.
Baden September 27, 2023 at 07:39 #840700
Reply to praxis

lol, I kinda added to it really. :nerd:
Jamal September 27, 2023 at 07:59 #840702
When I was selling my apartment in Edinburgh, Ewen Bremner, who was Spud in Trainspotting, came to view it. When I opened the door I said, “It’s you,” and he said, “yes,” and I said “well, come in and have a look around.” His fame and his acting were never mentioned. I’d forgotten his name and I didn’t want to say “Spud!”

The once mildly famous actor John Gordon Sinclair told me to fuck off in Buchanan Street in Glasgow because I tried to sell him a Trotskyist newspaper. I was outraged at the time but can now sympathise.

My brother and I met actor James Lance in a pub in London and spent a few hours drinking with him. I know him as that young guy from I’m Alan Partridge but apparently he’s most recently famous for being in Ted Lasso.

At a party in France I spent the evening talking to the session and touring sax player for Bros and Wet Wet Wet.
Baden September 27, 2023 at 13:37 #840748
Quoting Jamal
The once mildly famous actor John Gordon Sinclair told me to fuck off in Buchanan Street


Nice. After the Nachtwey experience, I tried to get several other famous people to tell me to fuck off and was sometimes successful. Here's me with Harrison Ford.

Jamal September 27, 2023 at 13:58 #840752
Reply to Baden Nice. For me it’s something I don’t plan for or try to force, making the moments when it does happen all the sweeter. Harrison Ford said fuck off to me too once, during one of his violent drunken rampages.
Baden September 27, 2023 at 15:33 #840776
Reply to Jamal

In fairness, Harrison is a fairly easy prospect. By contrast, I've been working on the Dalai Lama for years and nada. :sad:
Jamal September 27, 2023 at 15:46 #840782
Reply to Baden I hope you succeed one day. We’d all like to see the Dalia Lama lose his shit.
T Clark September 27, 2023 at 15:57 #840785
Quoting Moliere
"I'm sorry, Miss, but alcohol is prohibited from school functions."


So that's where all the talk about that degenerate Moliere I read on Facebook came from.

T Clark September 27, 2023 at 16:05 #840788
Quoting Hanover
True story.


As is to be expected of any narrative about Popperland, your story is unfalsifiable.
Baden September 27, 2023 at 16:06 #840789
Reply to Jamal

:starstruck:
T Clark September 27, 2023 at 16:14 #840792
Quoting Jamal
The once mildly famous actor John Gordon Sinclair told me to fuck off in Buchanan Street in Glasgow because I tried to sell him a Trotskyist newspaper.


I feel bad. None of the mildly famous people I've seen have ever told me to fuck off. Although from what he told me, Chubby Checker was pretty pissed off when my friend walked into his dressing room. Next time I tell my story I'm going to make one up. How about this:

One time I ran into Donald Trump Jr. at an Applebee's. I said his beard made him look like a little boy who used shoe polish to make himself look grown up. He told me to fuck off - True story.
T Clark September 27, 2023 at 16:17 #840794
Quoting Baden
I've been working on the Dalai Lama for years and nada. :sad:


Go up to him and say "Gunga galunga." Works every time.
praxis September 27, 2023 at 16:24 #840798
Jokes are tough too.

Moliere September 27, 2023 at 18:14 #840836
Reply to T Clark I just wanted 1! Those PTA people are such prudes.
Hanover September 27, 2023 at 18:20 #840837
I was once at a Victoria Secrets supermodel angel show thing and these women, over and over, kept fucking me. I was like "stop that shit." They told me to fuck off.

Strange day.
Noble Dust September 27, 2023 at 18:21 #840838
I once worked at a wine shop in Brooklyn. The manager put a life size cardboard cutout of Darth Vader in the window of the shop with someone else’s face hidden behind Darth’s helmet and proceeded to hold a contest for customers to see if anyone could guess who’s face it was. There must have been hints or something, I don’t remember. The prize was probably a gift certificate or something. I don’t remember if anyone won, but eventually it was revealed to be John Turtorro. About a week after the reveal, I was working the shop and answered the phone. It was John Turtorro. Apparently he lived in the neighborhood and was not pleased to see his face on Darth Vader’s body in our window and requested we take it down, which we did.
T Clark September 27, 2023 at 18:32 #840842
Quoting Noble Dust
Apparently he lived in the neighborhood and was not pleased to see his face on Darth Vader’s body in our window and requested we take it down, which we did.


Best "Encounter with a Famous Person" story yet. My Chubby Checker story would be better if I had seen him myself.
jorndoe September 27, 2023 at 23:55 #840906
User image
Sir2u September 28, 2023 at 00:41 #840921
Reply to jorndoe They made a comic about my cat, he will be so happy.
Hanover September 28, 2023 at 02:09 #840941
Quoting Noble Dust
once worked at a wine shop in Brooklyn. The manager put a life size cardboard cutout of Darth Vader in the window of the shop with someone else’s face hidden behind Darth’s helmet and proceeded to hold a contest for customers to see if anyone could guess who’s face it was.


A friend of mine stole the life size cut out of Dale Earnhardt that was next to a beer display. He walked it like a step at a time and the lady just watched, as she thought maybe they were walking out together.

Anyway. That's how I met Dale Earnhardt. May he rest in peace.
Noble Dust September 28, 2023 at 02:11 #840942
Reply to Hanover

My best friend growing up was Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s third cousin. What makes this funny is I'm not joking.
T Clark September 28, 2023 at 02:14 #840943
Quoting Noble Dust
My best friend growing up was Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s third cousin.


That means he was Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s second cousin once removed.
Hanover September 28, 2023 at 02:24 #840947
Reply to T Clark Your mastery of the rules of consanguinity are impressive.
Hanover September 28, 2023 at 02:48 #840952
Biden is the first second Catholic to be president.
finarfin September 29, 2023 at 00:33 #841267
A few months ago, I explored the possibility of a responsive fundamentally socialist system (prompted by discussions on the Forum). As a thought experiment, I created two pages of points for this new system, and called it, I kid you not, "cooperative-style market socialism", and was extremely proud of it. To my chagrin, cooperatives were already a thing, and so was market socialism (this was before I knew much about applied socialism). it functioned almost the same as market socialism, and stemmed from the same rationale. Anyway, I thought that would be a funny story to share.
BC September 29, 2023 at 02:49 #841294
Reply to finarfin 100 extra points! for thinking about how socialism might be implemented. and welcome to The Philosophy Forum.
Paine September 29, 2023 at 02:51 #841295
Reply to Hanover
Hopefully not the second of the other part.
T Clark September 29, 2023 at 03:13 #841302
Quoting Paine
Hopefully not the second of the other part.


He would be the fifth.
Outlander September 29, 2023 at 15:03 #841381
How is everyone doing today? Anything neat or peculiar to share?
LuckyR September 29, 2023 at 15:35 #841395
How is everyone doing today? Anything neat or peculiar to share?

Reply to Outlander

Doing fantastic! Nothing dramatic. Though I heard a joke that (to my ear) has some philosophical overtones.
Outlander September 29, 2023 at 15:58 #841404
Reply to LuckyR

Do tell.
LuckyR September 29, 2023 at 16:01 #841405
Reply to Outlander

OK. What do you call a Black man flying an airplane?
Outlander September 29, 2023 at 16:05 #841407
Reply to LuckyR

I said tell not ask.
T Clark September 29, 2023 at 16:15 #841413
Quoting LuckyR
What do you call a Black man flying an airplane?


A pilot.
javi2541997 September 29, 2023 at 16:19 #841417
Quoting Outlander
How is everyone doing today? Anything neat or peculiar to share?


I am at Mercadona, shopping stuff for my family: pink Schweppes, nappies, teriyaki sauce, beer, tomato and spring onions.
Jamal September 29, 2023 at 16:28 #841421
Quoting javi2541997
nappies, teriyaki sauce, beer, tomato and spring onions.


:yum:
LuckyR September 29, 2023 at 16:30 #841422
Reply to T Clark

Almost. The way it was told was: "A pilot, you racist" (remember it's a joke, not a brain teaser).
LuckyR September 29, 2023 at 16:32 #841423
Reply to Outlander

I guess technically it's a riddle.
Outlander September 29, 2023 at 17:42 #841432
Reply to LuckyR

I don't like liars. Nor ill-prepared faux comedians.
BC September 29, 2023 at 18:04 #841449
Quoting Outlander
How is everyone doing today? Anything neat or peculiar to share?


It's another day in which to excel -- not that I have any plans in that direction. As for peculiar, too many things to list.
Hanover September 29, 2023 at 18:48 #841459
Have any of y'all seen my cat bowl?
Hanover September 29, 2023 at 18:49 #841460
She's pretty decent. A few strikes, a few spares, but really good for a cat.
Hanover September 29, 2023 at 19:45 #841468
I know there are all sorts of motivational videos out there, so I'm hesitant to pick one to post, but this one really inspired me, so I wanted to post it.

https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8M6uNh8/
LuckyR September 29, 2023 at 21:34 #841485
Reply to Outlander
Uummm... relevance?
jorndoe September 30, 2023 at 02:15 #841547
"What's on your mind, jorndoe?"

"The Louvre."

User image

Mimesis in the Louvre (2010)

good weekend y'all

Hanover September 30, 2023 at 13:40 #841635
Reply to jorndoe I like the concept, but the direction I'd take it is with some naked beer bellies standing around the statue of David.

You know, when I think of David, I think of @T Clark. Maybe he could take a naked pic with the statue.

I'd do it, but there aren't any selfie sticks long enough to account for my schlong, which becomes instantly erect in the presence of David.

Other than that I'm straight.
wonderer1 September 30, 2023 at 14:10 #841642
Reply to Hanover

Have you tried that AI generated art site T. Clark posted about?

You might have the makings of a masterpiece there.


T Clark September 30, 2023 at 15:15 #841656
Quoting jorndoe
"The Louvre."


Great photo. Hey, @praxis why don't you see what Midjourney can do with it.
T Clark September 30, 2023 at 15:22 #841657
Quoting Hanover
You know, when I think of David, I think of T Clark.


Yes, me too, although, to be honest, when I think of anything I think of T Clark. Actually, when I think of Michelangelo's David, I usually think of "The Simpsons." Although, to be honest, when I think of anything I think of "The Simpsons." When I think about "The Simpsons," I think about T Clark. It's an endless loop.

praxis September 30, 2023 at 17:11 #841685
Reply to T Clark

Far too risqué for the pearl clutching AI's.
T Clark September 30, 2023 at 23:20 #841736
Quoting praxis
Far too risqué for the pearl clutching AI's.


Alas.
Paine October 01, 2023 at 01:41 #841786
Reply to T Clark
Numbers adjusted.
Hanover October 01, 2023 at 12:59 #841845
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray

Guys, help me with this poem. I've got writer's block and can't come up with the next line.

Baden October 01, 2023 at 13:40 #841852
Quoting Hanover
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray

So I think I need to focus on my health now and never post in TPF again, eh?
Baden October 01, 2023 at 13:41 #841853
The meter might be a bit off but I think it works.
Hanover October 01, 2023 at 13:50 #841854
Reply to Baden This has more the subtle feel of advice as opposed to participation in a collaborative artistic enterprise, but I'm likely just misreading. Good first try though!
Baden October 01, 2023 at 13:58 #841856
Quoting Hanover
This has more the subtle feel of advice


Dunno, but I'm happy for you to run with that interpetation. :party:
T Clark October 01, 2023 at 15:28 #841865
Quoting Paine
Numbers adjusted.


User image
BC October 01, 2023 at 19:46 #841915
Quoting Hanover
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray


Or

I took some an ti bi ot ics to day ---------- 10 syllables
My phlegm [I]went[/i] from green to gray ------- 7 syllables

Or

[I]An[/i] ti bi ot ics I took to day ------------------- 9 syllables
My phlegm fad ed fast from green to gray ------- 9 syllables

Or

An old antibiotic I took today;
It failed to work and I died straight away.

0 thru 9 October 01, 2023 at 21:02 #841927
Quoting Hanover
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray


This could be the first two lines of a limerick, possibly a dirty one.
If that’s the case, no AI in the universe could possibly come up
with a dirtier limerick than Hanover. (That’s meant as a compliment btw!) :nerd:
BC October 02, 2023 at 00:04 #841992
Reply to 0 thru 9 I tried to write a filthy limerick but my puritan upbringing ends up subverting smut. This poor trash was the best I could do. I started out with antibiotics and disease in mind, which led to a whore with syphilis (the pox), or should we say "a sex worker with a communicable disease".

There once was a whore with the pox
Whose trade was soon on the rocks
Here business address was all shriveled
Oh, fuck! "What to do now?" she sniveled
She saw an ad for the campaign of trump
And signed up to to speak on the stump
As a whore her speeches sucked
But all who heard her were fucked.

0 thru 9 October 02, 2023 at 00:53 #842016

Reply to BC haha! Epic dirty limerick… excellent. :up:
And i can now say I’ve read some poetry today… much cultural! :sweat:
Hanover October 02, 2023 at 00:53 #842017
Here's a try:

There once was a mensch named Hanover
Who paid a blonde lass to bend over
He gazed down upon her
In all his dishonor
And called out "this shiksa's not kosher!"
Sir2u October 02, 2023 at 00:53 #842018
Quoting Hanover
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray


got to remember, don't sniff hay
now I'm going out to play
:rofl:
Hanover October 02, 2023 at 00:55 #842019
Reply to BC Limerick is 5 lines with syllables 9,9,6,6,9 and ryhme scheme a,a,b,b,a.
0 thru 9 October 02, 2023 at 00:59 #842020
Reply to Hanover
We have a favorite to win the upcoming TPF dirty limerick contest.
If anyone wants to beat this one (!) they will have to aim very low! :lol: :monkey:
T Clark October 02, 2023 at 01:17 #842025
Quoting BC
my puritan upbringing


You were never a Puritan. You are a Norwegian bachelor farmer.
BC October 02, 2023 at 01:21 #842027
Reply to T Clark 100% pure, mostly.
praxis October 02, 2023 at 02:57 #842034
Our tree is still raining figs. Made a fig and goat cheese pizza with some light pesto made with purple basil from the garden. Sweet/savory deliciousness.

User image
Tom Storm October 02, 2023 at 08:31 #842065
Reply to praxis I'm partial to figs, goats cheese and pizza. You gone done a good thing...
praxis October 02, 2023 at 20:14 #842227
Reply to Tom Storm

Thanks. I was sort of hoping to inspire some syconia envy in Jamal, if I'm honest.
Jamal October 02, 2023 at 20:43 #842230
Reply to praxis Meh, I’ve seen better.
T Clark October 02, 2023 at 20:53 #842231
Every week or so I go to my local Chinese restaurant, sit in the bar, eat chicken wings. and drink a Bud Lite or two. There are two televisions in the area where I usually sit. Today, one was showing "Mathis Court With Judge Mathis" and the other was showing "Justice for the People with Judge Milian." I kept thinking it would be more fun to watch "Justice for the Trumps with Judge Engoron."
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 03, 2023 at 00:26 #842292
Hi Y'all
I'm coming up air ... next month is 2 yrs since this divorce started.
29 years married this Saturday mf....
Anyway, I am still here at the ranch waiting for it to be sold.
Got a new job that I started today. It's entry level but a lot of potential for upward movement.
With my Mom's help I am getting by and as soon as I can I going to start paying her back. $20k into my atty $6k for my business evaluation attorney and court reporters.
It's monopoly numbers to me and even if I walk away without a cent? I have the love of both my boys and there is no price on the value of them. :heart:
I miss you guys more than I can express without breaking down...
0 thru 9 October 03, 2023 at 00:57 #842293
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
:pray: :smile: :heart:
Banno October 03, 2023 at 02:15 #842304
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Oooo look, there's Tiff! Hello, Tiff! Very pleasing to hear from you.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 03, 2023 at 12:54 #842355
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 03, 2023 at 12:57 #842356
Reply to Banno
Hey Banno!
How is the family? I've been afraid to log onto FB because I am not sure who is still with us. I've thought a lot about you and your better half as well as Coomsy....is he still with us?
Oh and F@#&Cancer.
:flower: :flower: :flower:
Jamal October 03, 2023 at 14:04 #842363
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Welcome back Tiff. Hope we’ll see more of you here :smile:
Hanover October 03, 2023 at 15:10 #842372
Quoting T Clark
Every week or so I go to my local Chinese restaurant, sit in the bar, eat chicken wings. and drink a Bud Lite or two.


You're so woke.
T Clark October 03, 2023 at 15:25 #842376
Quoting Hanover
You're so woke.


Thank you for noticing. I normally drink Pabst Blue Ribbon with a rotgut chaser, but now I'm doing my part. At the liquor store they told me that I don't actually have to transition, although in Massachusetts I have to wear a dress when I buy it.

True story.
T Clark October 03, 2023 at 18:18 #842442
Hey, @Noble Dust, we haven't heard from you. Did you float away?
praxis October 03, 2023 at 20:09 #842471
User image
Nils Loc October 03, 2023 at 20:19 #842474
Reply to praxis

This is an empty, kitsch and unforgivable act of plagiarism. How dare you devalue your very own art.

Or... wow, you've really come a long way in your skill as a painter... though, it's a bit derivative. Still empty... It's just not intellectually appealing.



praxis October 03, 2023 at 20:22 #842475
Reply to Nils Loc

It's not me it's Midjourneee. :cool:

I wonder if Apple will be upset, btw, that it uses their logo. Or maybe they have a placement deal.
Outlander October 03, 2023 at 20:33 #842478
Reply to praxis

Chess me bro, let's go.
praxis October 03, 2023 at 20:55 #842485
Reply to Outlander

You must be feeling lucky today. Do you have a chess.com account?
Banno October 03, 2023 at 21:07 #842489
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff All still around, even Coomsy, who has a birthday celebration coming up. Jack has the C, but we might get another month or two out of him. Wife says "G'day!"

Place hasn't been the same without you.
Sir2u October 04, 2023 at 00:16 #842575
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hi Y'all


Hi to you too, I knew you would come back sooner or later. The bar is just not the same anymore, with all of the old fuddy duddies looking at their empty glasses.
Noble Dust October 04, 2023 at 02:59 #842609
Reply to T Clark

Just the usual crippling depression, ennui, etc. :party: I start a new job in a few weeks, so I might be not around even more.
T Clark October 04, 2023 at 06:24 #842641
Quoting Noble Dust
Just the usual crippling depression, ennui, etc. :party: I start a new job in a few weeks, so I might be not around even more.


Sorry things aren't going well. Will you continue as a wine professional?

Did your neighborhood get flooded?
Benkei October 04, 2023 at 06:46 #842644
Is there a thread where the clusterfuck of McCarthy being tossed out and probably being reelected and the near shutdown (again) of the US government, is discussed?
Outlander October 04, 2023 at 09:00 #842654
Quoting Benkei
Is there a thread where the clusterfuck of McCarthy being tossed out and probably being reelected and the near shutdown (again) of the US government, is discussed?


"California Republican Representative Kevin McCarthy was removed as House speaker Tuesday, the first time in the history of the chamber that its leader has been ousted."

That is interesting... and historic apparently. I don't follow that level of politics very deeply. What makes him a bad dude?
Benkei October 04, 2023 at 09:41 #842658
Reply to Outlander I have no opinion on McCarthy. Just wondering if this was already discussed somewhere and what people's take is on it.
Hanover October 04, 2023 at 10:16 #842659
Tonight is garbage night, so I'll be crazy busy getting the trash to the curb, but if all goes well and some time is freed up, I'm likely to announce my candidacy for next House Speaker.
bongo fury October 04, 2023 at 10:36 #842662
Quoting Hanover
I took some antibiotics today
My phlegm went from green to gray


"Such the chances for our democracy"
The colours seemed to say
T Clark October 04, 2023 at 16:04 #842727
Quoting Hanover
I'm likely to announce my candidacy for next House Speaker.


Well, if I were a Republican member of the house, I would certainly vote for you. You or George Santos.
BC October 04, 2023 at 16:57 #842747
Quoting Noble Dust
Just the usual crippling depression


At least the crippling depression, ennui, despair, and more! are all familiar, so that's something to be grateful for. Is there any chance that your new job will be an exciting, life-enhancing opportunity in which to excel? Or, does it just mean a different subway stop?

Living on a fixed income with diminishing resources has its drawbacks but every morning when I wake up I offer up gratitude that I don't have to go to work. Work sucks, which is why they have to pay us to do it.

But most sincerely, I wish you the best.
T Clark October 04, 2023 at 17:02 #842750
Quoting BC
every morning when I wake up I offer up gratitude that I don't have to go to work.


Yes...yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I keep telling people they should retire, but then they tell me they want to continue feeding their children. Priorities!
BC October 04, 2023 at 17:08 #842753
Reply to T Clark Reply to Hanover I heard on the radio that one doesn't have to be a member of congress to be elected speaker. So... any of us could be speaker. As jobs go, being in Speaker of the House is probably no worse than managing a dementia ward with 435 patients.
Hanover October 04, 2023 at 17:45 #842761
Reply to BC My first run is going to be to see if I can speak at my own house, and if I get permission for that, then I'll move to other houses to see if I can speak there.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 04, 2023 at 19:53 #842787
@Jamal
Thank you
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 04, 2023 at 19:57 #842789
@Banno
Hiya to your better half :flower:
{{{{{Jack}}}}} give him a hug from me :sparkle:
Amazing on Coomsy!
It shows that medical is still a practice and not solutions. The Drs gave my Nona 2 yrs and she bargained with God and lived another ten years. She told God he could take her after her first grandchild was born and kept moving the goalposts on him.
:hearts:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 04, 2023 at 19:58 #842791
@Sir2u
Thank you for being patient with me as I figure out my life.
I don't have it worked out yet but I am a work in progress.
:flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 04, 2023 at 20:00 #842792
Reply to T Clark
I appreciate your patience and understanding!
You are incredibly sweet :flower:
frank October 04, 2023 at 20:02 #842793
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
Any insights about the whole thing? New wisdom or anything?
T Clark October 04, 2023 at 20:04 #842796
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I appreciate your patience and understanding!


Aw shucks.

Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
You are incredibly sweet :flower:


Yes, @Hanover was saying the same thing the other day.
Hanover October 04, 2023 at 20:21 #842800
Quoting T Clark
I appreciate your patience and understanding!
— ArguingWAristotleTiff

Aw shucks.

You are incredibly sweet :flower:
— ArguingWAristotleTiff

Yes, Hanover was saying the same thing the other day.


It has been touching to see how you put aside your otherwise busy life and came daily to the Shoutbox awaiting her return.
Hanover October 04, 2023 at 20:32 #842802
Speaking of Irish people other than @Baden, I was talking to a client with an accent that seemed to come from some ancient melancholy land, and I asked him where the flying fuck he was from. He told me he was Irish, and I told him I'd have guessed Scottish, but what the fuck do I know, and I hoped he wouldn't be offended I made him a Scotch and not an Irish. He thought that was funny and told me he didn't offend easily. So I started in about his mother, and, true to his word, he didn't offend easily.

We're now drinking buddies. We got drunk and shaved one another's bellies with rusty razors. It's a thing I'm to learn.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 05, 2023 at 01:51 #842881
Quoting frank
Any insights about the whole thing? New wisdom or anything?

I have gained a lot of wisdom in the past two years, thank you for asking.

*There are people in life that won't even go to the end of the street for you and others who would walk miles just to meet you halfway.

* If you ask me how long you have to endure something, my answer will be "Until". Not until next week or next year just "until".

* You are capable as an adult, to unpeel the layers of expectations that society has painted on you, as you travel the miles of life.

* Always go with quality over quantity.

* We teach people how we want to be treated.

* A narcissist will never see anything wrong in themselves.

* If someone cuts you out of their lives, chances are you handed them the scissors.

* Relationships in life are not unbreakable.

* Attorneys are some of the best people you will ever meet and will go to the ends of the earth for you as a client (as long as those checks keep cashing Yes Hanover, that one was for you. But the truth my attorney is strategy is good and he is willing to wait on an 11k bill and still adding after the 7.5k deposit was exhausted.

* No matter how much easier you think someone has it than you, remember we all put our pants on one leg at a time

* That it is okay to not be okay.

* That in the darkest of times is when people show their true colors.

* That many people want to be part of the celebration but who is with you when you have nothing, those are the rare and hold onto them with both hands.

* You don't try, you do.

* The philosophy of adapt, overcome and conquer kicks ass in this world for people who are out to sabotage you and anything or anyone that brings you happiness.

* That no response is a response.

* That love can be redefined.

But in the end the words that stung the most were my own coming back at me from a friend. "When it's harder to suffer than change, we change".

There is a lot more and I am grateful to have been able to extract some nuggets of wisdom from this rolling shit show that has been my life for the last two years.
frank October 05, 2023 at 02:13 #842884
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
That love can be redefined.


Like the difference between love and need? Or what?
L'éléphant October 05, 2023 at 03:29 #842897
Quoting Noble Dust
Just the usual crippling depression, ennui, etc. :party: I start a new job in a few weeks, so I might be not around even more.

Conquer that depression -- like you're going to a battle, even if you must crawl.
Good luck with the new job.
Noble Dust October 05, 2023 at 06:20 #842913
Quoting T Clark
Sorry things aren't going well. Will you continue as a wine professional?

Did your neighborhood get flooded?


Things are actually going pretty well, but that has nothing to do with depression.

I'm moving up the wine professional ladder, yes. Overall, I'm feeling good, because I love an environment where anything is possible, which is the case with this new job. I'm learning that I need to be able to see new horizons, so to speak.

Quoting BC
Is there any chance that your new job will be an exciting, life-enhancing opportunity in which to excel? Or, does it just mean a different subway stop?


See above, but it's going to be quite different, and that fact alone is enough for me. I'm focusing on how welcome the change is.

Quoting BC
But most sincerely, I wish you the best.


:flower:

Noble Dust October 05, 2023 at 06:26 #842914
Reply to L'éléphant

Thanks. I doubt many people dealing with depression would be comforted when told to "conquer" it, although I get the image of "crawl"ing as being emotionally uplifting. But actually, no. If I was going to a battle, and I could only crawl there, I would definitely die. So, unfortunately I have to file your post under "meaningless platitude".
Noble Dust October 05, 2023 at 06:30 #842915
Quoting T Clark
Did your neighborhood get flooded?


Oh, and most importantly, I was asleep during morning rush hours when it happened, but I didn't see any signs of water damage outside my building. But about a mile away, there was video on the gram of some pretty gnarly stuff.
Jamal October 05, 2023 at 07:38 #842922
Quoting Noble Dust
So, unfortunately I have to file your post under "meaningless platitude".


Meaningless platitudes are invariably what people say when they mean well. But what’s important is that they mean well, which I think @L'éléphant did.
javi2541997 October 05, 2023 at 11:27 #842956
Congratulations to the Norwegian author, Jon Fosse, for being awarded the 2023 Nobel Prize in Literature.

He is a playwright. Interesting!

The Nobel Prize in Literature 2023
T Clark October 05, 2023 at 16:39 #843009
Quoting Noble Dust
I doubt many people dealing with depression would be comforted when told to "conquer" it, although I get the image of "crawl"ing as being emotionally uplifting.


When I was in the depths of my deepest anxiety/depression, my brother couldn't figure out why I didn't just "snap out of it."
BC October 05, 2023 at 17:33 #843022
Reply to javi2541997 Not quite sure what they do, but "quantum dots" specialists got the Nobel in Chemistry. I suppose they figured out how to make Dots candy very very very small. My understanding is that a box of Q Dots may or may not have anything in them.

User image
Hanover October 05, 2023 at 17:59 #843025
Quoting BC
Not quite sure what they do, but "quantum dots" specialists got the Nobel in Chemistry. I suppose they figured out how to make Dots candy very very very small. My understanding is that a box of Q Dots may or may not have anything in them.


Dots make an excellent crown extractor.
Hanover October 05, 2023 at 18:00 #843026
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Welcome back. It'll be like those times when you leave somewhere a while and then you're back a week or so and you forget you were ever away.
T Clark October 05, 2023 at 18:02 #843027
Quoting BC
Not quite sure what they do, but "quantum dots" specialists got the Nobel in Chemistry. I suppose they figured out how to make Dots candy very very very small. My understanding is that a box of Q Dots may or may not have anything in them.


No, no. The Q Dots box is both full and empty at the same time.

Dots are one of those candies I've had to give up now that I no longer have dental insurance. Mike and Ikes, jujubees, twizzlers, jelly beans, fire balls, jaw breakers, sugar daddies...
javi2541997 October 05, 2023 at 18:47 #843033
Quoting BC
I suppose they figured out how to make Dots candy very very very small. My understanding is that a box of Q Dots may or may not have anything in them.


I promise I never saw any box of those candies in my life. We have in Europe the 'light' version of everything related to sugar and sweets.
Noble Dust October 05, 2023 at 19:02 #843035
Reply to Jamal

Sure, but I think it’s a valid criticism to point out the meaninglessness of a platitude. One can “mean well” and just say “sorry to hear that”, or, as @T Clark did, simply reflect on one’s own experience of depression, which goes way farther, as it suddenly brings us together because we’ve shared the same experience.
Hanover October 05, 2023 at 19:54 #843039
Reply to Noble Dust It's hard to know what to say. Maybe that's a platitide as well.

I never knew what you were supposed to say to someone who lost a close friend or relative, and it seemed so meaningless to send a pre-printed card or just to remark how sorry you were. That's what I thought until I suffered such a loss, and I still remember every card and every "I'm so sorry." It's weird really because you think those things just couldn't matter, but they do. I think it has to do with that brief second you realize you are not expected to just keep soldiering on.


frank October 05, 2023 at 20:10 #843041
Reply to Hanover
Depression just comes and goes for some people. It's not like addiction to crack that you can conquer somehow. It will go away when it's ready. Or maybe you have to make some alteration to get back on track. Like plant a hundred bushes in the front yard so you don't have to mow it anymore. And screw all those people who think you're supposed to have a lawn. Why? The birds like it better with the bushes.
Paine October 05, 2023 at 20:48 #843052
Quoting Noble Dust
which goes way farther, as it suddenly brings us together because we’ve shared the same experience.


It is interesting to look at psychiatric dictionaries that list the different "expressions" of depression. Whatever value that has toward differentiating situations, it is not like checking to see which one applies to oneself.
Mikie October 05, 2023 at 21:34 #843065
My computer keyboard’s “L” button doesn’t work anymore. I’ve been too lazy to get another one, and I don’t like writing long posts on an iPhone (like this one).

I’d like to time myself some time and see just how much shorter typing a post of the same length takes me on my desktop than on a phone.
Jamal October 05, 2023 at 21:42 #843068
Reply to Mikie Georges Perec, member of the Oulipo group, wrote a 300 page novel, La disparition, that doesn’t contain the letter “e”. Avoiding the letter “L” should be a piece of cake in comparison.
Tom Storm October 05, 2023 at 22:28 #843088
Reply to Paine Reply to Noble Dust I read an astonishing personal account and history of depression written by Andrew Solomon. It's The Noonday Demon - an Atlas of Depression.

https://andrewsolomon.com/books/the-noonday-demon/
universeness October 05, 2023 at 23:03 #843097
Reply to Mikie
Why don't you download a free virtual keyboard and type using your mouse, until you get a new keyboard?

Another quick solution is to use 'ctr c' to copy the letter L from any source, then every time you want an L on a post, just do a 'ctl v', on your keyboard. This will work as long as you don't overwrite your copied L.
Paine October 05, 2023 at 23:10 #843102
Reply to Tom Storm
Will Inquire. In the right season.
BC October 06, 2023 at 01:35 #843125
Quoting T Clark
No, no. The Q Dots box is both full and empty at the same time.


Thank you for the incisive correction. Use those incisors while you still have them.
BC October 06, 2023 at 01:48 #843128
Reply to Noble Dust Reply to Jamal Reply to Hanover Greg Brown has an anti-platitudinous song. So don't wish that he have a nice day.

Hanover October 06, 2023 at 02:23 #843138
The word siIIy is indistinguishable from the word silly, despite the former being spelled with capital letter eyes and not lowercase els.

Els ate superfluous .
Sir2u October 06, 2023 at 03:50 #843160
Quoting Mikie
My computer keyboard’s “L” button doesn’t work anymore.


ALT+76 = L
ALT+108 = l

Windows 10 and 11 have On Screen Keyboard incorporated. :wink:
Mikie October 06, 2023 at 04:29 #843161
Reply to Sir2u

I have a Mac. But I’ll try it.
T Clark October 06, 2023 at 04:46 #843163
Quoting BC
Greg Brown has an anti-platitudinous song. So don't wish that he have a nice day.


I first heard one of Greg Brown's songs - "Rooty Toot Toot for the Moon" Sung by Michael Johnson on WCAS in Cambridge MA - long gone. I've mentioned it here before. After 43 years, it's still the radio station I've liked best. I didn't know who Brown was until I started listening to "Prairie Home Companion." I think RTTftM is still my favorite song of his. Also "Iowa Waltz." He is married to Iris Dement, another really good song-writer and singer.
L'éléphant October 06, 2023 at 05:10 #843166
Quoting Jamal
Meaningless platitudes are invariably what people say when they mean well. But what’s important is that they mean well, which I think L'éléphant did.

Thank you.




BC October 06, 2023 at 05:15 #843167
Reply to T Clark I'm not sure I have heard him before; "Michael Johnson" isn't a rare name in these parts, but after hearing him sing your favorite song on YouTube, he sounds familiar and he has a very pleasant folk-type voice. He played a concert at Northrop Auditorium on the U of MN campus in 1978; that's a big venue for a folk singer (Some of the audio is on YouTube). Thinking back, some guy I used to run around with in the late 70s said "Rooty toot toot to the moon" every now and then.

There are a couple of radio stations that are gone that I miss a lot -- WCAL from St Olaf College and KUOM from the U of MN. They both played classical music and had talk shows. Of the two, KUOM had the better talk shows. WCAL's programming and announcers were close to perfection when St. Olaf decided to get rid of it -- damn them.
frank October 06, 2023 at 10:55 #843192
Did you know skunks eat chickens? Just learned this today. The whole universe has changed for me.
Jamal October 06, 2023 at 11:08 #843194
Reply to frank

The universe changed for me when I found out the hard way that chickens eat mice.

And when I say I found out the hard way, yes, I mean I was a mouse and got eaten by a chicken. Well, to be more accurate, my back half was eaten by one chicken and my head, shoulders, and front legs were eaten by another, after they pulled me apart in a competitive frenzy. It’s a miracle I survived.
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 12:20 #843203
Quoting Jamal
And when I say I found out the hard way, yes, I mean I was a mouse and got eaten by a chicken. Well, to be more accurate, my back half was eaten by one chicken and my head, shoulders, and front legs were eaten by another, after they pulled me apart in a competitive frenzy. It’s a miracle I survived.


An animal attacked one of my chickens, but the chicken got away, leaving only a few cuts and scrapes on its neck. It seemed to be recovering until the other chickens noticed the healing wound and began pecking at it, leaving her all bloodied. We've seperated her for now with the hopes she'll fully recover and the other chickens will forget she once provided nourishment.

This is to say that chickens are not kind towards one another, much like Republicans, as seen recently in the Speaker showdown.

My point being, that knowing what I know about chickens, I fully accept your story as accurate, and I am inspired by your recovery. Most other mice wouldn't have fared as well, so I trust God was on your side, unlike McCarthy, who God cared little about.

For dinner, portobello marinated in Worcestershire sauce and garlic powder seared on the griddle with red bell peppers and chilli peppers, and served on a ciabatta roll with fig infused goat cheese and a horseradish mayonnaise spread. My creation. I call it the Hanoverwich, named not after me, but after someone I don't know who shares my name.
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 12:31 #843204
Quoting frank
Did you know skunks eat chickens?


I'd think that would have to be a crafty skunk who was able to lie in wait for some time and then spring upon the chicken. Chickens just seems much faster than skunks and able to fly for short distances and able to get away.

I lost a bunch of young chickens once to some animal but the other older chickens were untouched. Maybe it's an experience thing and skunks are able to prey upon inexperienced chicks. Just like with people.
Jamal October 06, 2023 at 12:31 #843206
Quoting Hanover
An animal attacked one of my chickens, but the chicken got away, leaving only a few cuts and scrapes on its neck. It seemed to be recovering until the other chickens noticed the healing wound and began pecking at it, leaving her all bloodied. We've seperated her for now with the hopes she'll fully recover and the other chickens will forget she once provided nourishment.

This is to say that chickens are not kind towards one another, much like Republicans, as seen recently in the Speaker showdown.

My point being, that knowing what I know about chickens, I fully accept your story as accurate, and I am inspired by your recovery. Most other mice wouldn't have fared as well, so I trust God was on your side, unlike McCarthy, who God cared little about.


The chicken theme really helps me to understand American politics, so keep it up.

If God was responsive for my recovery, I hereby say thanks, but why he reincarnated me in the form of a human I don’t know.
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 12:45 #843209
Quoting Jamal
If God was responsive for my recovery, I hereby say thanks, but why he reincarnated me in the form of a human I don’t know.


The difficulty I am having with this post is that it suggests you died when you were a mouse and that you are no longer a mouse but a human, but your earlier story clearly indicated you survived, so I'm not sure what to make of this inconsistency. If I am to learn you heroically survived the chicken onslaught but then died later and are now a person, that changes things for me.

What this would mean is that God liked you at one point, but then he didn't like you at another point and let you die, and so I'll now have to figure out how you fell into disfavor. Please don't let me learn you failed to abide by the mitzvot and God delievered your comeuppance, much like what happened to Rutherford B. Hayes due to his ending of Reconstruction policies, and now many now hold him in disfavor.
Jamal October 06, 2023 at 13:15 #843214
Reply to Hanover

I resent your implication that I’m just making this stuff up. It was my soul that survived. Normally when you get eaten by a chicken in two parts—but only in that circumstance—the soul is irretrievably lost, often ending up embedded inside raspberry or a pine cone, where it cannot achieve sentience. Mine was saved by a miracle, but it wasn’t inevitable. God doesn’t like to lose souls, but he can’t keep an eye on all the chickens all the time, despite all that bollocks about omnipotence and omniscience.

Thus the rest of your post is rendered irrelevant, although I enjoyed the bit about Rutherford B. Hayes.
frank October 06, 2023 at 13:23 #843218


Quoting Jamal
Well, to be more accurate, my back half was eaten by one chicken and my head, shoulders, and front legs were eaten by another, after they pulled me apart in a competitive frenzy. It’s a miracle I survived.


The universe was preparing you for the philosophy forum.


Quoting Hanover
I'd think that would have to be a crafty skunk who was able to lie in wait for some time and then spring upon the chicken. Chickens just seems much faster than skunks and able to fly for short distances and able to get away.


According to the farmers I work with skunks are in the weasel family and they're badass chicken eaters. One person told me they "eat the heads off the chickens.". That's just next level. :grimace:
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 13:54 #843222
Reply to Jamal I was not aware that chickens were able to turn humans into golems, but I appreciate the information, considering the number of chickens I currently house. I am also happy to hear your soul returned to the guff where it awaited rebirth. Ours is a merciful god in that regard.

I am troubled by your resentment, mostly because I first read it as re-sent and not resent, and I was like "am I due for a package to arrive," but then I realize, no, it will not be such a red letter day.

Rutherford B. Hayes was the original hipster.

Jamal October 06, 2023 at 14:00 #843223
Reply to Hanover I kind of know what a golem is and that there was one hanging about in Prague some time ago, but I’ve lost the thread with regard to chickens. Maybe the arcane wisdom of the chosen people is not open to everyone.

BTW I’ve re-sent your implication. You should receive it in 7-120 days.
T Clark October 06, 2023 at 16:43 #843253
Quoting BC
I'm not sure I have heard him before; "Michael Johnson" isn't a rare name in these parts, but after hearing him sing your favorite song on YouTube,


I haven't heard much from him since WCAS went out of business. He showed up as a country artist for a while, but I don't remember anything in particular. Oddly enough, my father's ex-wife knew him and took guitar lessons from him. That was down in southern Virginia. My favorite song of his is a cover of Jackson Browne's "Opening Farewell." I still have one of his albums, but it's hard to listen to. Too evocative. Too much associated with a particular time and place. A particular T Clark.

T Clark October 06, 2023 at 16:44 #843254
Quoting Jamal
The universe changed for me when I found out the hard way that chickens eat mice.

And when I say I found out the hard way, yes, I mean I was a mouse and got eaten by a chicken. Well, to be more accurate, my back half was eaten by one chicken and my head, shoulders, and front legs were eaten by another, after they pulled me apart in a competitive frenzy. It’s a miracle I survived.


True story
T Clark October 06, 2023 at 17:01 #843263
We've talked about this before - the dates I've always heard for the migration of people from Asia to the Americas were from 12,000 to 15,000 years ago. Recently, I've read articles that push the dates much further back. Here's an interesting article:

Quoting AP News
Further evidence points to footprints in New Mexico being the oldest sign of humans in Americas

New research confirms that fossil human footprints in New Mexico are likely the oldest direct evidence of human presence in the Americas, a finding that upends what many archaeologists thought they knew about when our ancestors arrived in the New World.

The footprints were discovered at the edge of an ancient lakebed in White Sands National Park and date back to between 21,000 and 23,000 years ago, according to research published Thursday in the journal Science.
Jamal October 06, 2023 at 17:19 #843268
Quoting T Clark
True story


User image
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 18:35 #843300
Quoting AP News
New research confirms that fossil human footprints in New Mexico are likely the oldest direct evidence of human presence in the Americas, a finding that upends what many archaeologists thought they knew about when our ancestors arrived in the New World.


So here's the deal. I was in New Mexico speaking New Spanish to some New Mexicans and we got to scattering about some New fossils onto old land. I bought the fossils on Amazon, an internet based clearinghouse of sorts that provides knick knacks and bric a brac of varying value to lonely Americans. Once we completed our mission, we found some missionaries in the missionary position and told them our tale to their tail. Surprised they were of our antics but not at all bothered or aroused, but they did wave us away in order to complete their mission and send us away from our own.

The point being that the fossils were inseminated and there they remained, only now to have them discovered by duped anthropologist archeologists who now insist humans walked on this new land longer ago than they ever did.

True story.

Reply to T Clark
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 18:44 #843302
What actually happened is that an Israelite named Lehi got on a boat and came to the Americas. Once in America, two of his sons became embroiled in conflict, leading to centuries of warfare between the Nephites and Lamanites. The Lamanites are the ancient anscestors of today's Native Americans.

I totally can't believe you never learned this in your history class.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/mormons-timeline/#:~:text=According%20to%20Mormon%20belief%2C%20an,after%20two%20of%20Lehi's%20sons.

Note as well that the Garden of Eden is in Independence, Missouri, so that dates back to the first week of fucking Creation. That's old as mother fucking shit I'd say, way way way before that fossil evidence.
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 18:52 #843306
Quoting Jamal
Maybe the arcane wisdom of the chosen people is not open to everyone.


Fuck no it's not. That's why my thinking is inpenertrable to most.

Hanover October 06, 2023 at 18:57 #843307
I don't think we've given this enough thought and sort of glossed over on it, but @Jamal used to be a fucking mouse and a some piece of shit chicken plucked off half his back and then he was left dead and without a soul because of the way the chicken went about it, and now he has his own philosophy forum.

I mean shit. That's one hell of a story. Only in America.
Jamal October 06, 2023 at 19:03 #843309
Quoting Hanover
Fuck no it's not. That's why my thinking is inpenertrable to most.


I’m guessing this is Yiddish for impenetrable. Otherwise, you have some chutzpah, I’ll give you that.

Reply to Hanover You tell the story well.
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 19:29 #843312
Quoting Jamal
I’m guessing this is Yiddish for impenetrable. Otherwise, you have some chutzpah, I’ll give you that.


Impenetrability is more a Christian concept revolving around the Virgin Mary, which is why I misspelled it. My people are fruitfulatious and multiplicitious.
frank October 06, 2023 at 19:39 #843316
Quoting Hanover
Impenetrability is more a Christian concept revolving around the Virgin Mary, which is why I misspelled it. My people are fruitfulatious and multiplicitious.


The Virgin Mary was Jewish though.
T Clark October 06, 2023 at 20:11 #843328
Quoting frank
The Virgin Mary was Jewish though.


If my memory of church doctrine is correct, Jesus and Mary became Christian by transubstantiation.

True theology.
frank October 06, 2023 at 20:51 #843340
Quoting T Clark
If my memory of church doctrine is correct, Jesus and Mary became Christian by transubstantiation.


Mary always regretted that Jesus didn't get circumcized because they were out living in a barn at the time.
Sir2u October 06, 2023 at 21:09 #843350
Reply to Mikie I am not familiar with Mac keyboard, but I think they have something similar.
Sir2u October 06, 2023 at 21:12 #843353
Quoting frank
Did you know skunks eat chickens?


Now the question is, do they prefer Kentucky or Popeye's chicken?
Hanover October 06, 2023 at 23:02 #843382
When I was a cat, I used to play with this skunk and we developed a forbidden type of love, so I painted a stripe down my back to fit into skunk society. I was fully accepted until one day I used "skunk" in a derogatory way, and then I got canceled. They also didn't like how I insisted upon shitting in a box, but I think had I controlled my tongue, I'd have been OK.

Anyway, ten of them lined up ass first and blasted me with skunk juice. I shot straight in the air like cats do and came down claws first. Skunk clumps went aflying, but when the dust settled, there was a dead skunk and me lying belly up in a pool a fecal soup.

I went on the lam because I couldn't return to my cat community soiled as I was, going from town to town, strumming my mandolin and telling my tales, always leaving behind the smell of ass wherever I went.

True story.
Noble Dust October 07, 2023 at 01:14 #843390
Here's a thought that just popped into my head. As a typical forum member who thinks about philosophical things, and as someone who has creative disciplines, when I'm out in the wild, in the worldly world with all it's drama and gossip and fast moving parts, I sometimes imagine all of these people I interact with as having no idea about not only my own inner world (which they don't), but about the idea that an inner world could exist for themselves or for anyone. The way people present themselves (particularly in a large city) is as if the here and now is all that's real. I often let that perception overwhelm me, which forces me into mental and social hibernation. But this isn't real; these loud, extroverted people each have their own inner world too. I know this on paper, but I don't know it when I'm talking to them. I'd like to learn how to know it while I'm taking to them. I think I'd be better at it. This is primarily for @T Clark who sometimes bemoans my lack of involvement in philosophical discourse. As you were.
T Clark October 07, 2023 at 01:44 #843394
Quoting Noble Dust
This is primarily for T Clark who sometimes bemoans my lack of involvement in philosophical discourse.


When you have something substantive to say, it's generally worth listening too.

Quoting Noble Dust
I sometimes imagine all of these people I interact with as having no idea about not only my own inner world (which they don't), but about the idea that an inner world could exist for themselves or for anyone. The way people present themselves (particularly in a large city) is as if the here and now is all that's real.


In an ideal world where we are all enlightened, there is no separation between the inner world and the here an now. In my experience almost everyone achieves that connection, at least from time to time. I love New York City - the way people are there. I love the brusqueness and pushiness. Of course, I've never lived there.

I've heard, although I can't remember where, that if you can make it there, you can make it anywhere.
frank October 07, 2023 at 01:50 #843396
Reply to Noble Dust
A number of people on this forum don't have an inner world. They don't even know what that means and it irritates them if you suggest anyone has that. I think it's like an extreme form of aphantasia.
Hanover October 07, 2023 at 01:59 #843397
Reply to Noble Dust IWhen I was a kid, I'd lie in my bed and wonder when people who didn't lie in their bed wondering would wonder because it was impossible to me that people didn't need time to wonder.

And their parties, I didn't understand. They'd carry on, but not say anything, and they wouldn't remember what was said. Like what was that for?

I also wondered how married people recovered from togetherness by rejuvenating by being alone if you couldn't be alone when you married.

So you find the pretty girl in the tree lost in the book who laughs at stories of nonsense and thinks miracles real and you build a life around that, ignoring the clutter of others.
Noble Dust October 07, 2023 at 02:21 #843403
Quoting T Clark
When you have something substantive to say, it's generally worth listening too.


As we say in NYC, 'preciate you.

Quoting T Clark
In an ideal world where we are all enlightened, there is no separation between the inner world and the here an now.


Yes. But isn't this a sort of mystical state of union?

Quoting T Clark
In my experience almost everyone achieves that connection, at least from time to time.


As you can see from my perception of what you said above, I'm unsure what you mean. Probably obvious, but I'm missing it.

Reply to frank

Why not just name names? :joke: I suppose it might be possible to not have an inner world, but, with caution, I would suggest that might be a type of mental illness. I say that as someone with mental illnesses myself. I don't know. I would have to think about it. I suppose if I imagine someone with schizophrenia, it would appear that an inner world is all they have. So imagining the opposite is difficult for me. Can someone have a mental illness where they are only in tune with their physical surroundings and have no mental world where they process what they're perceiving? That seems wrong. If that was an illness, it would indeed be "mental" because the brain perceives the physical world. I guess "mental illness" in our parlance generally suggests something to do with emotions and states of mind and perceptions of reality. I'm rambling so I'll stop here.



Noble Dust October 07, 2023 at 02:24 #843404
Reply to Hanover

Because of the reputation you've devised for yourself, I can't tell if this is a heartbreakingly beautiful prose poem about the inner and outer worlds of children, adolescents, and adults, or one of your jokes. I rest the onus of that on you, but if it's sincere, then bravo. :cheer:
T Clark October 07, 2023 at 03:30 #843410
Quoting Noble Dust
As you can see from my perception of what you said above, I'm unsure what you mean. Probably obvious, but I'm missing it.


It's not particularly mystical. When you're in your music, aren't you fully here but also fully within yourself? When you collaborate, aren't you fully within yourself but also with them?
unenlightened October 07, 2023 at 07:48 #843436
Quoting Noble Dust
these loud, extroverted people each have their own inner world too. I know this on paper, but I don't know it when I'm talking to them. I'd like to learn how to know it while I'm taking to them. I think I'd be better at it


Two things you need: firstly to develop a cruel streak, and display it with pride, and secondly, a backing band. Let this song be your inspiration.

Jamal October 07, 2023 at 08:33 #843445
Quoting Hanover
True story


Your skunk/cat story is like a variation of the tragic story of Pepé Le Pew.
unenlightened October 07, 2023 at 10:02 #843469
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Hiya Tiff. Almost missed you way back there.I'm much too slow for the shoutbox these days.

"A change in the weather is known to be extreme." But we old [s]hippies[/s] horses keep hobbling along anyway; even if we can't remember our names, it's good to get out of the rain.
frank October 07, 2023 at 12:18 #843497
Quoting Noble Dust
suppose it might be possible to not have an inner world, but, with caution, I would suggest that might be a type of mental illness.


Or maybe they would say you're the crazy one with your private realm of unutterables and visions.

Quoting Noble Dust
Can someone have a mental illness where they are only in tune with their physical surroundings and have no mental world where they process what they're perceiving?


I think they would say there's no difference between being in tune to the physical world and processing what they're perceiving.
frank October 07, 2023 at 14:25 #843545
Suzie grew up in Tim's shadow, trekking through the woods on great adventures. They shared a bond only enjoyed by people whose parents don't know how to love. Tim only had Suzie and vice versa. They were the only real people in a world of blanks.

Tim started his life of drinking at age twelve. Suzie was too young to make sense of it. He was just gone. The mass of blanks beyond the glass wall seethed and screamed in their misery or celebrated in the snow and fireworks, but Suzie was alone with something that could have been God. It was hard to say exactly what it was who stood by her and held her at night. It wasn't human, but it was warm. It couldn't fix her shattered heart, but it was better than nothing, or so she assumed.

Sometimes Tim would call asking for help because he wanted to stop drinking. Suzie would come to his rescue, taking him to the park to walk around, or she would just sit with him and watch his pain. She saw the person she'd once known. It looked kind of like him, but this guy was radioactive. Good thing the glass wall was there to protect her.

Tim eventually took up religion and became sanctimonious. He couldn't talk to Suzie without trying to convert and condemn. Suzie was getting divorced, and Tim's only comment was "Look at your life, Suzie."

Suzie was alone in the kitchen of her little sanctuary apartment when she started shaking. She dropped to her knees crying. She could feel it all the way down to her bones. Tim was gone.
Jamal October 07, 2023 at 14:35 #843552
Quoting frank
It was hard to say exactly what it was who stood by her and held her at night. It wasn't human, but it was warm


Maybe a monkey?

Sorry I'm not taking it very seriously. It's a sad story and feels quite real.

Quoting frank
Tim eventually took up religion and became sanctimonious


My favourite line. Concise, relatable and kinda funny. Becoming sanctimonious like becoming a plumber.
frank October 07, 2023 at 14:40 #843556
Quoting Jamal
Maybe a monkey?


I think she was allergic to monkeys.

Quoting Jamal
My favourite line. Concise, relatable and kinda funny. Becoming sanctimonious like becoming a plumber.


:grin:
jorndoe October 07, 2023 at 15:26 #843565
Well, that's some record :)

Only 22 countries have never been invaded by Britain
[sup]— Florian Zandt · Statista · Oct 15, 2021[/sup]

User image

jorndoe October 07, 2023 at 15:31 #843568
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff, you're back, took ya' long enough. :D Hopefully things are good on your end.
BC October 07, 2023 at 17:58 #843596
Quoting frank
Tim eventually took up religion and became sanctimonious


How many sanctimonious pricks does it take to change a light bulb?

Suggestions?
Hanover October 07, 2023 at 18:56 #843612

Getting an eye exam and 2 pair of glasses for $79.99. Rough crowd, but I feel like I've found a bargain.
Jamal October 07, 2023 at 19:13 #843616
Reply to Hanover Good deal. Tell me where you went. I need a new test and some glasses myself.
Hanover October 07, 2023 at 20:27 #843642
Reply to Jamal America's Best. It's a chain, so you can choose any of them. My doctor was remote and they broadcast my peepers across the interweb for her to take a look see.

Since it's $79.99 for two pair and I only got one face, I'll have an extra. I can't imagine our eyeballs are all that different, so I can send you my extra. No charge. Just if I bust my pair, you'll need to send me my extra back.

Lemme know if that'll work. User image

Jamal October 07, 2023 at 20:33 #843645
Quoting Hanover
Lemme know if that'll work


Works for me, and now I’ve got it in writing.
Hanover October 07, 2023 at 20:45 #843649
Reply to Jamal Sent them to:

Jamal
The Philosophy Forum
Route 1
Moscow, Russia

NOTE TO POSTMASTER: DO NOT BEND.

I decorated the box with all the stamps I had in my kitchen drawer, so you should get it soon. I guessed the route number, but it seemed right.

Enjoy!
Jamal October 07, 2023 at 20:50 #843651
Reply to Hanover

Great, that should get to me no problem.

Nobody’s ever sent me free glasses before, so I’m pretty chuffed (informal British English for pleased). I hope this isn’t just empty Shoutbox bollocks.

Empty bollocks? Is that a thing? Probably.
Metaphysician Undercover October 07, 2023 at 21:52 #843663
I buy my glasses from Zenni, online. They have a good selection and some less than $10. You need to have your prescription though.
Jamal October 07, 2023 at 22:03 #843667
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover Send me a pair please. I might need them in case I have to send Hanover’s back to him.
Hanover October 08, 2023 at 01:15 #843710
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
They have a good selection and some less than $10.


Was that for a full pair of glasses or just a monocle?
Metaphysician Undercover October 08, 2023 at 02:03 #843734
Quoting Jamal
Send me a pair please.


Go to their site and order your own. Their goal has always been to make prescription eyewear affordable to everyone. There's a huge markup in the industry. I've been buying there for years.
BC October 08, 2023 at 04:29 #843760
Maybe the thread, "Israel killing Civilians in Gaza and the West Bank" should be merged with "Ukraine Crisis" along with "Who owns the land?". Please suggest other threads that could be rolled up with these three.

A similar group are active on these threads; they each concern a current, past, or future firestorm. might has made right on numerous occasions. Whose might is going to make right in Ukraine is not clear yet. Israel's might will probably make right on the eastern shores of the Mediterranean. There's not enough land to go around, so conflict flares up over this or that patch.

Trouble here; trouble there; trouble almost everywhere.
unenlightened October 08, 2023 at 07:50 #843793
Big up to he without whom the Earth might not move for us. Deceased.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-03145-9

We are but the mould growing on the cracked skin of a blob of hot rock. How could we be be anything but crazy, violent and disgusting? (Merge all political threads here.)
frank October 08, 2023 at 09:17 #843800
0 thru 9 October 08, 2023 at 13:10 #843817
Quoting BC
How many sanctimonious pricks does it take to change a light bulb?

Suggestions?


“That broken bulb is a symbol of the outer darkness to which sinners have been cast!
Beg for forgiveness, but don’t expect any mercy. The saved give off a holy glow, and
thus do not need light bulbs.” :halo:

Is that enough pricky piousness? :lol:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:05 #843836
Quoting frank
Like the difference between love and need? Or what?


I mean that the idea of love being the flowery, the hand holding, the romantic love that our children's books expressed. That there is a time of happily ever after that can be achieved between two people who are in love. Except there is one more page after "happily ever after." Which is "The end" and I humbly suggest is the most important page in the book.
Today is our 29th wedding anniversary and it was mind blowing as to how much of our lives (53 yrs old for me) we spent together. As a thinker and someone who loves communication , I never paid attention to the word "spent" but I get it now. And I spent a lot of my lifetime with someone who I now understand was never capable of love.
That is not a bitter comment either, it just is the person who he is. Family told me for years a reality that I didn't want to hear but I now realize is true. While we all have a degree of narcissistic traits, as with most things, it is to what degree.
I was invited to this divorce by a narcissistic person who I labeled was chivalrous and my attorneys and my Dad ( :sparkle: ) who is now in Heaven, sternly corrected me in that he was misogynistic.
I had to clear everyone out of my inner dialogue except for my Mom and my adult children. Period. Slowly I have let one girlfriend and one guy friend in. They have been with me in this rolling dumpster fire from the beginning and had been blunt honest with me for over a decade.
I have two friends who would do anything for me and I for them, all the rest of our friends were his. That is okay because quality is better than quantity.
That is the love being redefined. Honesty, empathy and true love of the person, not because of what they can do for you or your heart but because of what they share with you. None of us will always agree or change for another but it is because of that genuine soul, that undeterred friendship that I now consider love. A love in my book has no "The end" page.
One of the last times I was here before my year long plus break, @Tobias said to remain loveable. I have passed it on as advice to others who were in a heartbreaking time in life.
Remain loveable, remain fluid and most of all remain humble.
Hanover October 08, 2023 at 15:09 #843838
The Lion's Club, a civic organization that likely flourished in the 50s when such things were in vogue, now survives on the fumes of the elderly looking for someone to share lunch with on Tuesdays at the local cafe. They hold fundraisers for eyeware for the less fortunate and collect used glasses to recycle.

An animated older man came to my table and hustled me for a $10 bag of pecans that he was selling for the Lion's club. I bought a bag, and in looking around, half the restaurant had purchased one as well.

That's the best eyeglass story I got.

ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:10 #843839
Quoting Hanover
It has been touching to see how you put aside your otherwise busy life and came daily to the Shoutbox awaiting her return.
4d

Bright bratty smiles :starstruck:

ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:16 #843840
Quoting Hanover
Welcome back. It'll be like those times when you leave somewhere a while and then you're back a week or so and you forget you were ever away.
3d


Thank you for the welcome back Hanover, you are incredibly sweet.
I have missed being here but in order to change, I had to go away. The Philosophy Forum is my favorite sandbox but I didn't want to accidentally throw sand at people in my life who didn't deserve it and no one here has ever gotten me to want to throw sand...I think....hmmmm
I imagine @Jamal and @Baden have a better memory than mine about a member or two that drove me that far but I doubt those people are still here.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:27 #843842
Quoting unenlightened
Hiya Tiff. Almost missed you way back there.I'm much too slow for the shoutbox these days.

"A change in the weather is known to be extreme." But we old hippies horses keep hobbling along anyway; even if we can't remember our names, it's good to get out of the rain.


Un, my mentor, my sage, it is nice to get out of the rain and off the battle field for awhile. The armor gets heavy but necessary in so many aspects of life.
I too have slowed down and have been the draft horse in the snowstorm, whose only choice was to keep putting one hoof in front of the other, rarely looking up because the snow stings the eyes. I'm headed to the prairie but need to keep on pushing until I get there.
I've had some thoughts of stopping along the way but if there is one thing I have learned, it is that if you don't like where you are, it's not going to change by giving up but rather by pushing on.
:hearts:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:34 #843845
@Benki I am glad you are here and moderating. I hope life is treating you well! :flower:

@BC I have thought about you over my break. I hope you are doing well and am glad you are still here on the boards. :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:49 #843846
Quoting jorndoe
you're back, took ya' long enough. :D Hopefully things are good on your end.


Lolol thank you for the ribbing it makes me feel like I am home again.
I couldn't wait for things to be "good" on my end to return.
I've wasted enough time, investing in someone who discarded me when I was of no use anymore.
I'm feeling stronger than I was and next year will be the two year anniversary of this divorce.
Thank you for hanging on long enough to welcome me back. :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:50 #843847
@universeness
I hope you are doing well and are still haunting the sandbox. :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 15:55 #843849
:pray: for the innocent whose souls passed over in the last two days. Losing their lives in such a brutal manner.
And before asking is there a non brutal manner? Yes, yes there is. :sparkle:
universeness October 08, 2023 at 15:59 #843851
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
Thanks, all is tickety-boo, apart from the odd personal and global existential crisis.
Glad to hear that you are picking up, reformatting and rebooting.
There is lots of life to be experienced yet, much of it personally good I hope and if not good then at least not boring.
Here's a wee cheesy tune that I have always found strangely hopefull!

Jamal October 08, 2023 at 16:06 #843852
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hanover, you are incredibly sweet


I think he can be too sweet sometimes, like s’mores.

Obviously I’ve never had a s’more, but my cultural learnings are as deep as they are wide.
Baden October 08, 2023 at 16:22 #843857
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Great to see you back, Tiff. :cheer:
BC October 08, 2023 at 16:39 #843863
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Good to hear from you and finding that you are going strong! The Forum is better with you. :flower: :party:
baker October 08, 2023 at 17:33 #843878
Wait, what? Jordan Peterson now something like believes in God or is somehow Christianity-adjacent?
Manuel October 08, 2023 at 18:47 #843894
Reply to baker

He's been the like that for a long time. He recent resurgence after his drug withdrawal may have played a role in turning his into a cartoon villain type.

But even prior to that he was religious.
Hanover October 08, 2023 at 19:08 #843905
Quoting baker
Wait, what? Jordan Peterson now something like believes in God or is somehow Christianity-adjacent?


His views on Christianity that I've heard are an idiosyncratic restorative theology of sorts where he interprets Christianity in a way consistent with his already held beliefs and argues that was the way Christianity was originally intended.

I take that from his reinterpretation of "turn the other cheek," which he argues is misunderstood as a passivity when it's not.

I have no problem with personalizing religion, but you can't then claim your subjective interpretation is the true correct one without becoming guilty of suggesting you have special insight. That feels cult like to me and discounts others' personal solutions.

Peterson does have impressive expertise in empirical research related to male/female distinctions that address some hot button issues and be can be controversial, but there's a side show to him that is distracting.
Hanover October 08, 2023 at 19:13 #843908
Quoting Jamal
think he can be too sweet sometimes, like s’mores.


I think cloying is the word you're looking for.:

"excessively sweet, rich, or sentimental, especially to a disgusting or sickening degree."

But yes, I'm much like a s'more, but with a s'more, you always want some more, thus the term, but you can't have more of me. Not this time.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 21:48 #843968
@Hanover
Are we going to war?
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 08, 2023 at 21:55 #843974
Quoting Jamal
think he can be too sweet sometimes, like s’mores.


S'mores are pretty mild on the sweet meter if your snack in kindergarten was crusty, stale, unsweetened graham crackers. After snack we had to lay down for 30 minutes on a carpet sample.

I think I saw @Hanovereating the Pirate paste with the applicator stick that was attached to the lid.

@Sir2u was pegging fellow students with the beans we were gluing onto the paper turkey we created by tracing our hand.

I just wanted to play dress up and work like a kept wife in the kitchen.... Jesus..... what a foreshadowing of my life....too bad 20/20 only appears in reflection.
T Clark October 08, 2023 at 22:03 #843982
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Sir2u was pegging fellow students


"Pegging" has come to mean something more than it did when you and I were kids.
BC October 08, 2023 at 22:16 #843987
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
After snack we had to lay down for 30 minutes on a carpet sample.


You had a very cushy middle class upbringing, For children of the lumpen proletariat, kindergarten was a sweat shop. No snacks, no nap time. We had to sit in our brightly colored little chairs at brightly colored little tables and sort ball bearings and put them in the correct boxes for the factories. All day long. 6 days a week. At least we were free from the clutches of the witch who ran the orphanage. That was a frigid, heartless, hungry hell. The sweat shop was at least warm, located as it was behind a blast furnace.
BC October 08, 2023 at 22:38 #843999
Reply to T Clark @rguingWAristotleTiff

Pegging is when someone wears a strap-on dildo and performs anal sex. Experts say it's important to be communicative when people try pegging, and to go slow.


Oh, @Sir2u might have been pegging students according to this definition. I don't know him that well. Normally one would suppose "people" wearing strapped on dildos were female people. Like, "pregnant people". Oh, you mean "pregnant women?" Personally I never met a guy who needed a strap-on dildo to do pegging service -- we all have erectifying organs that serve the purpose admirably well.

As for being "communicative when people try pegging"... Look, buddy, I'm glad you're into Schopenhauer and Hegel, but I really didn't pay $15 to get into the bath house to hear about it. So shut the fuck up and get back to work. And don't take all day, either

Manuel October 08, 2023 at 22:46 #844007
Quoting BC
I'm glad you're into Schopenhauer


:cheer: :fire: :fire: :heart:

Quoting BC
and Hegel


:vomit:
Sir2u October 08, 2023 at 22:56 #844012


Quoting T Clark
"Pegging" has come to mean something more than it did when you and I were kids.


Yes, but she was talking in past tense.

Quoting BC
Oh, Sir2u might have been pegging students according to this definition


You dirty minded old man! I was an innocent little boy way back then. :lol:
frank October 08, 2023 at 23:40 #844025
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Remain loveable, remain fluid and most of all remain humble.


:up: :up:
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 00:04 #844035
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Are we going to war?


We're already at war.
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 00:09 #844038
Quoting T Clark
Pegging" has come to mean something more than it did when you and I were kids.

So I hear of such things and wonder how one approaches their significant other with that request. Like do you bring home the attachments and say "Honey, I was thinking we'd give this a whirl?" Don't get me wrong, I'm as pervy and dark as the next guy, but I can't see how that convo goes down, and trust me, I've had some fucked up conversations.
BC October 09, 2023 at 00:11 #844039
Quoting Sir2u
I was an innocent little boy way back then


According to Freud, there's no such thing as innocent little boys and girls.

Actually, I've never heard anyone use "peg, pegged, and pegging" in any context outside of of estimating someone's status or value -- "I pegged him as an Ivy Leaguer."
BC October 09, 2023 at 00:19 #844043
Reply to Hanover Maybe your wife would just say, "go fuck yourself" which probably means "no".

Sexual contraptions are better as props in porn flicks than as a way to perk up tired sex.
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 00:46 #844050
Quoting BC
Sexual contraptions are better as props in porn flicks than as a way to perk up tired sex.


I fear for the younger generations who might be misled into thinking porn is reality and not fantasy, particularly the young women who usually are cast in the worst roles in such theater.
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 00:58 #844051
Quoting BC
Actually, I've never heard anyone use "peg, pegged, and pegging" in any context outside of of estimating someone's status or value -- "I pegged him as an Ivy Leaguer."


To be fair, men do not peg men, so that term would have little use in the gay community. Men simply have sex with men, all parts come pre-packaged.

Pegging occurs in the straight community, where a woman attaches a male prosthetic to herself and has sex with a man as if she were a man, but the man is attracted to her womanhood and not her manliness because he's straight and not gay.

It's confusing a bit, but whether it's an offshoot of latent homosexuality or just the joy of a penetratimg object within one's self, I don't really know. To each his own I say, and if happiness can be found at the end of a silicone probe, then I won't stand in the way of it.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 09, 2023 at 01:21 #844054
Quoting T Clark
Pegging" has come to mean something more than it did when you and I were kids.


Then nailing other kids would have been worse. What should I have said?
Btw I didn't know the new definition of the art of throwing something dense at another person. Who knew?

Next you are going to tell me that when someone asks you to Netflix and chill with them, that it means absolutely nothing about watching a movie.
Sir2u October 09, 2023 at 01:32 #844055
Quoting BC
Actually, I've never heard anyone use "peg, pegged, and pegging" in any context outside of of estimating someone's status or value -- "I pegged him as an Ivy Leaguer."


I have been trying to peg down where I used to hear this term used as a synonym to stick or glue things. It was used in the nautical world in which I grew up but in those cases it was usually referring to putting pins or pegs into something to hold it in place.

I fear that I will need to buy a new dictionary soon because the one I use most does not contain preteen/teen/twat speak words that seem so popular today.
BC October 09, 2023 at 01:36 #844056
Reply to Hanover One reason men like anal penetration which has nothing to do with sexual orientation is prostate stimulation which in turns intensifies sexual pleasure (provided the penetration is performed properly--not too big, not too long, not too roughly). There are sensations caused by large girth and long length alone, but after the first 2 or 3 inches, the prostate is no longer part of the equation.

This was explained in an episode of Gray's Anatomy which featured a bottle which had escaped (somebody's) grip. Retrieving the errant Bud Lite bottle didn't require surgery, and the female proctologist / colorectal specialist couldn't get the Grey's Anatomy staff to stop giggling and take her seriously, So, should you have this problem, don't go to the Seattle Grace ER.

And think about the impression you are making -- I mean, use a bottle with some class, something higher tone than 'Bud Lite'.
BC October 09, 2023 at 01:54 #844060
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Next you are going to tell me that when someone asks you to Netflix and chill with them, that it means absolutely nothing about watching a movie.


If I invited you over to watch a Netflix movie, you can rest assured that the movie would be the only featured attraction! Well, I might pop some corn.

Reply to Sir2u Another meaning of peg is PEG -- standing for polyethylene glycol. PEG is attached to proteins/peptides, antibodies, and vesicles considered to be used for therapy or genetic modification of cells. Doing this lends several desirable properties.

I have exhausted what I know about PEG.

Keep your old dictionary. Most "preteen/teen/twat speak words" are too evanescent to make it into printed dictionaries. The online slang dictionaries are more up-to-date. But you don't want to sound like a Valley Girl, do you? I mean like, gag me with a spoon!
L'éléphant October 09, 2023 at 03:51 #844068
Jamal October 09, 2023 at 05:32 #844078
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
S'mores are pretty mild on the sweet meter if your snack in kindergarten was crusty, stale, unsweetened graham crackers. After snack we had to lay down for 30 minutes on a carpet sample.


I can’t tell if this is an eccentric local custom, a metaphor, or a common and well-known practice that has somehow passed me by.
universeness October 09, 2023 at 10:47 #844132
Quoting BC
I have exhausted what I know about PEG.


How about:
1. Peg, short for Peggy, a pretty girl who works down the chip shop, upset that her parents gave her such an old name, or a very old lady, in a care home who remembers having to deal with a ration book during WW II.
2. Peg, a small wooden or plastic object to hold your washed clothes up on a washing line out in your garden or concreted patio, so that the wind does not blow your risky (but at least its temporarily clean!) underwear into your neighbour's garden.
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 13:36 #844182
Quoting Jamal
can’t tell if this is an eccentric local custom, a metaphor, or a common and well-known practice that has somehow passed me by.


We would use towels, not carpet samples, which I never heard of using. Snack time consisted of graham crackers and Hawaiian punch.

First grade was a difficult transition because you received neither. At that point, you were an adult, expected to find your own way.
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 14:44 #844197
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Then nailing other kids would have been worse. What should I have said?


I'm sorry for where this has gone. I intended it as a small, amusing offhand remark, forgetting about @Hanover.

T Clark October 09, 2023 at 14:46 #844198
Quoting Sir2u
It was used in the nautical world in which I grew up but in those cases it was usually referring to putting pins or pegs into something to hold it in place.


E.g. peg leg.

What nautical world did you grow up in?
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 14:48 #844201
Quoting BC
I have exhausted what I know about PEG.


For some reason, Peg is also a nickname for Margaret.
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 14:50 #844203
Quoting BC
But you don't want to sound like a Valley Girl, do you? I mean like, gag me with a spoon!


Even your hip youth cultural references are 40 years out of date.
Jamal October 09, 2023 at 14:57 #844205
Quoting T Clark
For some reason, Peg is also a nickname for Margaret.


Margaret > Maggie > Meggie > Peggie > Peg > Leg > Log > Hog > Hoggie

So, my grandmother Margaret was called Hoggie by her husband, who was also my grandfather.
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 15:07 #844208
Quoting Jamal
So, my grandmother Margaret was called Hoggie by her husband, who was also my grandfather.


What a charming nickname.

Also, just coincidentally, my grandmother's husband was my grandfather too.
Jamal October 09, 2023 at 15:10 #844209
Reply to T Clark But if your grandfather had been my grandmother, now that would have been weird.
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 15:38 #844216
Quoting Jamal
But if your grandfather had been my grandmother, now that would have been weird.


Good point. I hadn't thought of that.
Jamal October 09, 2023 at 15:44 #844218
Hanover October 09, 2023 at 15:44 #844219
My grandma's nickname was Midnight, as in, "Gentlemen, give it up for Midnight, now on the main stage."
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 15:55 #844220
On the subject of Joe Biden's body...

User image

Looks ok to me. He's 80, for God's sake. On the other hand, Trump's looking pretty good.

User image
T Clark October 09, 2023 at 16:14 #844227
unenlightened October 09, 2023 at 20:00 #844294
Google say:

A PEG (percutaneous endoscopic gastrostomy) feeding tube insertion is the placement of a feeding tube through the skin and the stomach wall. It goes directly into the stomach. PEG feeding tube insertion is done in part using a procedure called endoscopy. Feeding tubes are needed when you are unable to eat or drink.


Form an orderly queue.
BC October 09, 2023 at 21:06 #844306
BC October 09, 2023 at 21:09 #844307
Then there are peg gios.
Sir2u October 10, 2023 at 00:55 #844368
Quoting BC
But you don't want to sound like a Valley Girl, do you? I mean like, gag me with a spoon!


:rofl: :rofl:
Sir2u October 10, 2023 at 01:02 #844369
Quoting T Clark
What nautical world did you grow up in?


My father was a ship's captain, and I spent as much time as I could traveling with him.
Also, while living in Louisiana you cannot get very far from boats. We had a small motorboat and a dugout canoe with sails made out of old flour sacks. Can you imagine the faces of the local coast guard people when they saw us sailing across Lake Pontchartrain, one of the biggest laughs I ever had.
T Clark October 10, 2023 at 01:16 #844374
Quoting Sir2u
My father was a ship's captain, and I spent as much time as I could traveling with him.
Also, while living in Louisiana you cannot get very far from boats. We had a small motorboat and a dugout canoe with sails made out of old flour sacks. Can you imagine the faces of the local coast guard people when they saw us sailing across Lake Pontchartrain, one of the biggest laughs I ever had.


I grew up on the Chesapeake Bay. We had boats and the area was full of watermen catching crabs in warm weather and oysters in cold. I did a little sailing, but not much. I was certainly not as emersed as you were, but it is part of memories that are dear to me.

Jamal October 10, 2023 at 10:55 #844431
Lunch: cabbage wrap. Shredded raw cabbage, sliced onion and grated manchego with garlic mayonnaise and dried chilis, all wrapped up in Armenian flatbread.

Tasted like you’d expect. It’s all I had in the fridge. Well, I have some lingonberry jam in there and half a jar of pesto but they wouldn’t have worked.
javi2541997 October 10, 2023 at 12:22 #844451
Quoting Jamal
Lunch: cabbage wrap. Shredded raw cabbage, sliced onion and grated manchego with garlic mayonnaise and dried chilis, all wrapped up in Armenian flatbread.


:yum:

¡Qué aproveche!
Jamal October 10, 2023 at 12:24 #844454
Reply to javi2541997 Gracias. It was very far from the best lunch I've ever had, but definitely not the worst.
Jamal October 10, 2023 at 12:25 #844456
Reply to javi2541997 I smuggled the Spanish cheese into Russia back in July.
javi2541997 October 10, 2023 at 12:46 #844462
Quoting Jamal
I smuggled the Spanish cheese into Russia back in July.


I never thought cheese would be the subject of smuggling.

Well, I guess that, due to the war, Russia is suffering a shortage of international products. :sad:
Jamal October 10, 2023 at 12:52 #844463
Reply to javi2541997 Cheese from the EU was banned here in 2014 or 2015 in response to the sanctions that were a response to Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

For whatever reason, I can still get Spanish wine.
javi2541997 October 10, 2023 at 13:36 #844476
Quoting Jamal
For whatever reason, I can still get Spanish wine.


:cool:
frank October 10, 2023 at 13:38 #844478
Quoting Sir2u
My father was a ship's captain, and I spent as much time as I could traveling with him.


Did he have a peg leg and an eye patch?
Hanover October 10, 2023 at 15:22 #844502
My wife had mouth surgery, and so I've become a puree chef. I've made butternut squash soup, acorn squash soup, and hummus. I made some homemade tahini as well by toasting some sesame seeds and then blending them with oil. It came out ok, but wasn't as soupy as the store bought kind. I then decided to make some halvah with it and I mixed in some chocolate and it has the right texture and sweetness, but it didn't set as firm as store bought.

I think my wife liked it, but I told her not to talk for a few weeks so that her mouth could heal, so I'll learn what she thought after that.
frank October 10, 2023 at 16:40 #844519
Reply to Hanover
Ensure and Boost are also good.

User image

Hanover October 10, 2023 at 17:40 #844536
Reply to frank Got a fridge full of it.
frank October 10, 2023 at 19:05 #844552
Reply to Hanover
You're an excellent caretaker.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 10, 2023 at 23:53 #844632
Quoting BC
If I invited you over to watch a Netflix movie, you can rest assured that the movie would be the only featured attraction! Well, I might pop some corn.


I guess I could actually watch the movie! :eyes:

ArguingWAristotleTiff October 10, 2023 at 23:57 #844638
Quoting Jamal
I can’t tell if this is an eccentric local custom, a metaphor, or a common and well-known practice that has somehow passed me by.

It is a well known practice from the state where I am from.
I can't explain @Hanover towel. I'm hoping it was at least a hand towel because I am not sure if those in Georgia know what to sterilize the floor with. :confused:

ArguingWAristotleTiff October 10, 2023 at 23:58 #844639
Quoting universeness
Glad to hear that you are picking up, reformatting and rebooting.
There is lots of life to be experienced yet, much of it personally good I hope and if not good then at least not boring.


It is a welcome off ramp but not one I expected.
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 11, 2023 at 01:19 #844661
Quoting T Clark
I'm sorry for where this has gone. I intended it as a small, amusing offhand remark, forgetting about Hanover.


Pfffffftt no need for apologies. @Hanover is that X factor. It could go by without notice OR it could be interpreted as sexual in nature as humanly possible.
It's absolutely part of his charm. :sparkle:
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 11, 2023 at 01:20 #844664
Quoting Hanover
My wife had mouth surgery, and so I've become a puree chef. I've made butternut squash soup, acorn squash soup, and hummus. I made some homemade tahini as well by toasting some sesame seeds and then blending them with oil. It came out ok, but wasn't as soupy as the store bought kind. I then decided to make some halvah with it and I mixed in some chocolate and it has the right texture and sweetness, but it didn't set as firm as store bought.


I do hope she is doing well :pray:
Now,tell me about this chocolate halva! :yum:
Sir2u October 11, 2023 at 01:49 #844671
Quoting frank
Did he have a peg leg and an eye patch?


Nope. He came from a long line of tavern owners and lawyers, not much there in the way of training to be a pirate.
Maw October 11, 2023 at 03:20 #844695
oh hurrah welcome back @ArguingWAristotleTiff!
universeness October 11, 2023 at 10:19 #844752
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
It is a welcome off ramp but not one I expected.


We can only hope for those new, sweet smelling, beautiful roses, growing out of them ashes of our past! I find that one or two single malts on a Friday night also helps but not too many!!!
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 10:27 #844755
Quoting universeness
one or two single malts on a Friday night also helps


So long as it doesn’t taste of Dettol.
universeness October 11, 2023 at 10:43 #844759
Reply to Jamal
Is that not the secret brand name of Jack Daniels? Sorry America!
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 10:58 #844763
Reply to universeness No it’s the alternative name for Laphroaig.
universeness October 11, 2023 at 11:03 #844765
Reply to Jamal
Hah, what a surprise, we disagree!!!! :party: :party: :up: :clap: :clap:
How about a compromise? All unwanted Jack Daniels goes to be with you and all the unwanted Laphroaig comes to live with me?
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 11:04 #844766
Reply to universeness Actually I like it.

Laphroaig had the following in their advertising some years ago:

A symphony of smoke. Tastes like a burning hospital. Earth never tasted so good.


You can keep your Jack Daniels thanks. Not for me. Sorry America.
universeness October 11, 2023 at 11:09 #844767
Quoting Jamal
You can keep your Jack Daniels thanks. Not for me. Sorry America.


No, don't do that, you and I agreeing on anything, will make some TPF people cry into their burny, earthy, peaty, beautiful dram of Laphroaig. :yikes: :angry: :cry:
wonderer1 October 11, 2023 at 11:10 #844769
Reply to Jamal

Have you tried licking the bottom of an ashtray before downing a shot of Jack?
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 11:11 #844770
Reply to universeness I disagree.

Reply to wonderer1 No, but I’ll try anything once.
Hanover October 11, 2023 at 11:21 #844771
Quoting wonderer1
Have you tried licking the bottom of an ashtray before downing a shot of Jack?


I've had the barmat shot, consisting of the spillage of the past 20 or so drinks. Mine tasted of barman hands, sadness, and a delightful oak and butterscotch aftertaste that lingered and teased the palate.

universeness October 11, 2023 at 11:22 #844772
Quoting Jamal
I disagree.


:grin: To some TPF folks, that must seem like as good as the news of the first Hanoverian becoming King of England.

Quoting Jamal
No, but I’ll try anything once.

I once tried Jamesons and I once tried Bushmills and I even once tried Connemara (peaty).
I still love the Irish but I thought Bells was the worse whisky I had ever tasted, until Jamesons, Bushmills and Jack Daniels. Perhaps I have never really understood the difference between whisky and whiskey.
Hanover October 11, 2023 at 11:24 #844773
She knows that if she waiits patiently long enough, someone will turn the water on for her.

User image
User image
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 11:32 #844775
Quoting universeness
Perhaps I have never really understood the difference between whisky and whiskey.


The Americans went with the Irish spelling because of all the Irish folk who emigrated to the US. There are theories as to why the Irish changed from whisky to whiskey in the nineteenth century, but I don't give a shit.

Aside from the spelling, this site sets out the differences clearly and concisely:

https://www.scotchwhiskyexperience.co.uk/about/about-whisky/whisky-or-whiskey/
universeness October 11, 2023 at 13:12 #844782
Reply to Jamal
:roll: I know some of the suggested reasons ...... I was trying to be ...... ironic, .... I think.
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 13:30 #844788
Reply to universeness Yes, but I thought I'd share the knowledge anyway, since that's what the Shoutbox is for. We are trying to grow a gestalt intelligence, or collective consciousness if you will, with the aim of solving the hitherto intractable problems that beset humanity.
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 13:38 #844790
universeness October 11, 2023 at 13:45 #844793
Sir2u October 11, 2023 at 14:34 #844801
Reply to Hanover Mine is not patient at all, he starts screaming and ruuning after you if he does not get water when he wants it.
Hanover October 11, 2023 at 15:14 #844807
Quoting Jamal
There are theories as to why the Irish changed from whisky to whiskey in the nineteenth century, but I don't give a shit.


I bought a pint of brandy and the lady charged me two shits for it. I told her that I could only give her a shit for it, but not two. We haggled a bit, and I was able to provide her one and half shits total, and made my way out with my brandy.

I tell you this because I have a leftover half shit I don't know what to do with. I was thinking of sending it over with the next set of glasses to you.

Do you give a shit about anything I've just said?
Hanover October 11, 2023 at 15:17 #844808
Quoting Jamal
Fred!


I think Fred is my wife with the bad mouth right now. I can't remember.
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 15:34 #844813
Reply to Hanover You’re a shit haggler.

Quoting Hanover
I tell you this because I have a leftover half shit I don't know what to do with. I was thinking of sending it over with the next set of glasses to you.


No, you keep it. In a safe, perhaps.
praxis October 11, 2023 at 17:10 #844847
I notice the shoutbox isn’t visible unless you’re logged in now. Has it become an embarrassment?
Jamal October 11, 2023 at 17:20 #844851
Reply to praxis Yes. I think it's fair enough for us to keep the Shoutbox off the web. The important content we want the search engines to notice is in other threads.
Mikie October 12, 2023 at 03:04 #845004
So, five months on, an update on my bat problem. I’m going to rant, in detail, about this. I just need to write it down. I don’t expect anyone to care.

Laid down paper towels under the roof ridge after hiring someone to plug up holes and do an exclusion (one-way door), to see if there’s any guano and confirm they were gone. Didn’t see any new activity.

Figured that was that, so did the clean-up myself. Waited a few months until cooler weather. Hazmat suit, respirator mask, shoe covers, gloves — the whole nine yards. Taking no chances.

Back-breaking work. Needed an extension cord for the vacuum to reach into the attic, and had to balance along the beams while lugging it around. Then had to try different attachments because the vacuum hose kept sucking up the pink insulation.

Flashlights kept going out, which was fun. Felt like a scene from Alien.

Filled several trash bags, mostly of the top layer of insulation which was destroyed and had to be removed.

Took me several days. The heat in the attic, combined with my ridiculous, cheap, Home Depot hazmat suit, left me drenched in sweat and fogged up my goggles, which I stopped wearing because I could no longer see.

I had to be extra careful not to drag this shit throughout my house, of course, as there is only one way into the attic/crawl space: through an opening in the bedroom closet ceiling.

Afterwards I cleaned everything up and even sprayed down my ladder. Won’t be using the vacuum for anything again (we got a new one anyway).

When finally completed, last Friday, I took a sigh of relief. Still some remnants up there, but good enough.

Then, just this morning, October 11th — over five months after this started…I heard them in the walls. 6:15 AM. :rage:

It’s gotten very cold, so either they’ve come back just days after I finished— which is a frustrating coincidence — or they’ve been there all along and I haven’t heard them because it was warm enough for an AC or window fan, which creates too much noise. But then why didn’t they leave any evidence? Or did I somehow fail to notice it? (Unlikely.)

I already shelled out $1,200 in May for this company to rid me of this problem. The guy who came and did the work answered my call today and told me — surprise! — he doesn’t work for the company anymore, and that I should call the boss. Which I did, and who’s coming tomorrow (hopefully). I want the damn job done right or my money back so I can hire people who know what the hell they’re doing.

Anyway— How they’re getting in is a fucking mystery, and I’m now obsessed with it. I heard them again around 6pm in my bedroom wall, so I tried going out to watch my soffits and roof ridge for any sign of them. Didn’t see anything. Wife was inside texting me if and where she heard anything. Later on, after commenting to her that the noise seems contained to the back of the house, while watching TV I heard one in the wall of the front of my house, this time the first floor. At 9pm. I thought these things were nocturnal? Why aren’t they out catching mosquitoes at this point?

I wouldn’t care so much, but I don’t know what kind of damage they’re doing, I don’t want them to multiply, I don’t need the smell or another mess, I don’t need them attracting others— and god help me if one dies in my walls and just rots. How the hell am I going to clean THAT up?

First-world problems, I guess. I have to remind myself I don’t live in Ukraine or Gaza or Afghanistan. Not dying of aggressive cancer. Not starving to death.

But still…This just drives me crazy. (“Batshit crazy” har har har.)

Alright, done.

Hanover October 12, 2023 at 03:06 #845005
You can't keep the Shoutbox off the web because the web is nothing other than a shoutbox.

The Shoutbox is where Everyman has their say, even Frednyman, that ubiquitous changeling poster, who is all things to all people
Jamal October 12, 2023 at 03:35 #845011
Quoting Mikie
I just need to write it down. I don’t expect anyone to care.


Au contraire!

I enjoyed the story; thanks for keeping us updated. What made the story good is what made things bad for you: the return of the bats. I just have a couple of things to say…

You probably know a bat when you hear one, but … are you sure the new noises are not made by mice? Mice move indoors when it gets cold (I should know—I used to be one).

As for dead bats (or rodents), they’ll probably only take a few weeks to decompose completely, and you might not even notice any smell. However, if the carcasses are accessible to insects you might get a brief infestation of flesh flies. That happened when I was living in a water mill in the French countryside, although I think it was rats that were dying. Couldn’t smell them unless I went up to the attic, and the flies that kept appearing in the dining room—I eventually traced their route to a single hole leading to an inaccessible wing of the attic—were merely bothersome and repulsive.

There was also a beech marten in that attic, but that’s another story (one which I’ve told before a few times anyway).

I’m looking forward to the next instalment.
Jamal October 12, 2023 at 03:36 #845013
Flesh fly:

User image
Hanover October 12, 2023 at 12:57 #845082
Reply to Jamal When I was a cat, a horsefly laid an egg in my nose when I was reading "The Cat in the Hat." I was so engrossed in the plot I didn't notice the shenanigans it was up to.

No worries, though, a friendly sort yanked her lose for me. I spent the rest of the day being a cat and lapping water from the sink.

[
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 12, 2023 at 13:23 #845088
Quoting Maw
oh hurrah welcome back

maw! One of my favorite humans!
How is life treating you?
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 12, 2023 at 13:27 #845091
Quoting universeness
We can only hope for those new, sweet smelling, beautiful roses, growing out of them ashes of our past! I find that one or two single malts on a Friday night also helps but not too many!!!


univeseness for better or for worse I'm allergic to alcohol.
Having said that I have wished on more than one occasion that I was able to get smashed to forget the reality for bit.
Such is life! It does make me a great bartender for the forum as well as being designated driver.
Tradeoffs my friend, tradeoffs
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 12, 2023 at 13:29 #845093
Has anyone noticed that when you remove emotions out of the equation, the more transactional life feels?
ArguingWAristotleTiff October 12, 2023 at 13:32 #845096
Come on Karma!
I try to only make Karmic deposits but I am not perfect.

Is karma served within the lifetime of the person?
.....oh the ponders I have :roll:
Mikie October 12, 2023 at 13:35 #845098
Quoting Jamal
You probably know a bat when you hear one, but … are you sure the new noises are not made by mice?


Yes. I’m certain.

Quoting Jamal
As for dead bats (or rodents), they’ll probably only take a few weeks to decompose completely, and you might not even notice any smell.


You’ve given me hope.

Quoting Jamal
I’m looking forward to the next instalment.


I’m happy I didn’t bore you!

Hanover October 12, 2023 at 13:38 #845100
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Is karma served within the lifetime of the person?
.....oh the ponders I have :roll:


I like to think I'm someone else's karmic punishment.

universeness October 12, 2023 at 13:50 #845102
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
for better or for worse I'm allergic to alcohol.


Wow! I am not sure if that's a gift or a curse? I think that you should be allowed to carry a small ID card showing this condition and therefore you would be allowed to smoke one or two splifs during a social gathering in pubs/clubs and restaurants, or at least be allowed too access some kind of 'substance,' that let's you be on an equal level of 'chemically induced fun,' but of-course, 'in moderation.'

There have been a couple of occasions in my life when I had to stay sober, during a night out, when everyone else was getting into their own 'fun zone.' I did not enjoy myself. I also have some friends (only one or two,) who don't drink ,for either religious or health reasons, and they do still claim they fully enjoy themselves on a night out. So, It's probably just pure long learned habit with me, that I find such folks who can do that, kinda strange. Perhaps I am just jealous that some folks can do that, and I don't seem to be able to.

Why is whatever causes your allergy, not available to those whose life is being destroyed by alcohol abuse? What am I missing? Would the 'treatment' involved be worse or more dangerous/damaging, compared to an addiction to alcohol? or is it that your condition cannot currently be replicated in others?
frank October 12, 2023 at 13:50 #845103
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Has anyone noticed that when you remove emotions out of the equation, the more transactional life feels?


Yes. Sometimes there are advantages to doing that.
Hanover October 12, 2023 at 13:50 #845104
Couldn't piss for like three weeks. Belly swelled a hundred fold. Turns out a botfly burrowed in my pecker. Once they yanked it loose, I spouted a good half hour or so. Jammed an ice cream cone on my goober to calm down the angry rage, then went about my day, made some supper, and hadn't given it a second thought since.

True story.
universeness October 12, 2023 at 13:52 #845105
Reply to Hanover
Wow! Has David Bowie returned in kitten form?? Look at the different eye colours!!
frank October 12, 2023 at 13:52 #845106
Reply to Hanover
What's it like inside your skull? Is there a waterfall?
Hanover October 12, 2023 at 14:02 #845112
Quoting frank
What's it like inside your skull? Is there a waterfall?

I have some paperclips, half a green crayon, and a pen top in my skull. Just a mismatch of leftover stuff I need to empty out.
frank October 12, 2023 at 14:09 #845117
Quoting Hanover
I have some paperclips, half a green crayon, and a pen top in my skull. Just a mismatch of leftover stuff I need to empty out.


You might need that stuff. Better leave it there.
Maw October 12, 2023 at 14:45 #845127
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
maw! One of my favorite humans!
How is life treating you?


I am doing very well, my girlfriend and I are moving in together next week so very excited about that. How are things with you?
praxis October 13, 2023 at 12:18 #845288
Part of giving up bachelorhood is learning to alway leave the toilet seat down, or do like I do and pee sitting down like a girl.
Michael October 14, 2023 at 13:59 #845571
Quoting praxis
Part of giving up bachelorhood is learning to alway leave the toilet seat down


Why does anyone need to learn that? It’s common sense to close the toilet lid before flushing.
praxis October 14, 2023 at 15:18 #845594
Common sense for not closing the lid:

Convenience: Some people might find it more convenient to leave the toilet lid open, as it reduces the step of opening it before use. This can be particularly true in busy households or shared bathrooms where the toilet is frequently used.

Ventilation: In some bathrooms, particularly those without proper ventilation, leaving the toilet lid open can help reduce odors by allowing air to circulate more freely. This can be a concern in smaller bathrooms.

Aesthetics: People may prefer the look of an open toilet bowl and find it more visually appealing. Some bathrooms are designed with this in mind, as it can make the space feel more open and less cluttered.

Forgetfulness: Closing the toilet lid might not be a habit for everyone, and people may occasionally forget to do so. In such cases, it's not a deliberate choice to leave it open.

Pets: Some pet owners leave the toilet lid open to allow their pets, particularly cats, to have access to water. Cats are known to enjoy drinking from toilets, and leaving the lid open can serve as a convenient water source for them.
Baden October 14, 2023 at 15:33 #845595
Reply to praxis

I agree. @Michael's irrational concern is surely based on some deep Freudian neuroticism.
praxis October 14, 2023 at 17:44 #845659
Reply to Michael

From the article:
When asked why they do not close the lid when flushing the toilet, the top reasons from respondents include being unaware of the risks of not flushing (47 per cent)


If half of Brits are unaware of the risk then it's not common sense. Thank you for admitting that, if only indirectly.
Sir2u October 14, 2023 at 18:06 #845666
Quoting praxis
Part of giving up bachelorhood is learning to alway leave the toilet seat down, or do like I do and pee sitting down like a girl.


Quoting Michael
Why does anyone need to learn that? It’s common sense to close the toilet lid before flushing.


He is talking about the SEAT, and everyone else is going on about the lid.

What is the forum coming to?? :sad:


Michael October 14, 2023 at 18:42 #845682
Quoting Sir2u
He is talking about the SEAT, and everyone else is going on about the lid.

What is the forum coming to?? :sad:


You need to lower the seat to lower the lid.
Michael October 14, 2023 at 18:51 #845685
Quoting praxis
If half of Brits are unaware of the risk then it's not common sense.


Common sense is very rare.
BC October 14, 2023 at 20:13 #845699
Reply to Michael What, exactly, is the sense of it?

True, the flushing action might eject an aerosol mist of water, waste, and bacteria. However, toilets in institutional settings often have no lids to close, AND institutional toilets tend to have more powerful flushing than residential toilets. (Landlords want to avoid clogged sewer pipes, hence the turbo flush.)

All that considered, one would suppose that many cases of illness would be traceable to flushing toilets. It is the case that no sicknesses (individual or groups) are traceable to toilet flushing.

The interesting question is: why doesn't the fountain of ejected aerosols from toilets make us sick?

One possibility: inhaled enterobacteria (found in guts and toilets) do not survive in the respiratory system. (keep your mouth shut when flushing the toilet?). Another possibility: disease causing bacteria deposited in toilet bowls are not sufficiently durable to be infectious long enough and in large enough quantities to cause disease.

Side note: toilet lids normally have gaps all the way around between the seat and the lid. Aerosols could certainly escape and sicken you, if it was easy to do.

Experiment: place 1,000 immunocompromised individuals in busy public toilets for 1 hour. Do not allow masks or other prophylactic devices. Send them home after one hour, Track how many of the immunocompromised subjects become sick with diseases caused by gut-bacteria.

Expected conclusion: If none of the immunocompromised individuals get sick, you can stop worrying. If a lot of subjects get sick and die from gut-bacterial diseases picked up from germy flushes, then you should probably stay home all the time, and should toilet yourself outside in the fresh air. Consult a dog.
Sir2u October 14, 2023 at 22:37 #845737
Quoting Michael
You need to lower the seat to lower the lid.


Not in my house, the seat is where you put your butt and is covered by the lid. :wink:
Michael October 14, 2023 at 22:58 #845756
Reply to BC

Potential for aerosolization of Clostridium difficile after flushing toilets: the role of toilet lids in reducing environmental contamination risk

Background: Toilet facilities in healthcare settings vary widely, but patient toilets are commonly shared and do not have lids. When a toilet is flushed without the lid closed, aerosol production may lead to surface contamination within the toilet environment.

Aim: To substantiate the risks of airborne dissemination of C. difficile following flushing a toilet, in particular when lids are not fitted.

Methods: We performed in-situ testing, using faecal suspensions of C. difficile to simulate the bacterial burden found during disease, to measure C. difficile aerosolization. We also measured the extent of splashing occurring during flushing of two different toilet types commonly used in hospitals.

Findings: C. difficile was recoverable from air sampled at heights up to 25 cm above the toilet seat. The highest numbers of C. difficile were recovered from air sampled immediately following flushing, and then declined 8-fold after 60 min and a further 3-fold after 90 min. Surface contamination with C. difficile occurred within 90 min after flushing, demonstrating that relatively large droplets are released which then contaminate the immediate environment. The mean numbers of droplets emitted upon flushing by the lidless toilets in clinical areas were 15-47, depending on design. C. difficile aerosolization and surrounding environmental contamination occur when a lidless toilet is flushed.

Conclusion: Lidless conventional toilets increase the risk of C. difficile environmental contamination, and we suggest that their use is discouraged, particularly in settings where CDI is common.


It's not hard to close a toilet lid before flushing. Better safe than sorry.

But you do you.
praxis October 14, 2023 at 23:26 #845778
Quoting Sir2u
He is talking about the SEAT, and everyone else is going on about the lid.


I guess it doesn't make sense to us because in the Americas we flush-and-go and also wash our hands, and therefore post-flush aerosolization of contagions is of little concern. Apparently, this is not the case in the UK. They must hang-out after flushing and are therefore very concerned with post-flush aerosolization, so much so that they do studies on the phenomena.

There isn't much to do in the confined space after flushing so I suppose they sit down, with the lid closed of course. After doing that frequently enough they must start to think of the lid as a seat.

What are they doing in there post-flush? That's the big mystery.
Sir2u October 14, 2023 at 23:43 #845787
Quoting praxis
I guess it doesn't make sense to us because in the Americas we flush-and-go, and therefore post-flush aerosolization of contagions is of little concern.


I believe you, most would not but I do. nudge, nudge- wink, wink.
But if I do a quick google, I bet I could find evidence that says something else. Like the correlation of time spent in the crapper to time spent on farcebook, twatter and of course tickdog. I would be willing to bet that there are some people right now reading this post while taking a dump.

Quoting praxis
What are they doing in there post-flush? That's the big mystery.


Now this is Philosophy at its best. Worthy of a thread all to itself.
That is one of the mysteries of the universe that bosses around the world would like an answer to.
Sir2u October 15, 2023 at 00:02 #845808
Quoting BC
Experiment: place 1,000 immunocompromised individuals in busy public toilets for 1 hour. Do not allow masks or other prophylactic devices. Send them home after one hour, Track how many of the immunocompromised subjects become sick with diseases caused by gut-bacteria.


Where the hell does a public toilet that big even exist? And them you have to have space for the users so that the air can be contaminated. Taking into account that a busy public toilet would probably only have about 20% of its users taking a dump and the rest just [s]taking the[/s] having a piss, that means there would be one big shit load of people passing through there.

This claims to be the biggest in the world, but I don't see to many crappers there.

https://www.urinal.net/worlds_largest_restroom/





Wembley Has More Toilets Than Any Other Venue

If you're making the trip, don't worry about spending too much time waiting in line to use the bathroom. Wembley Stadium has 2,618 toilets, more than any other venue in the world, according to the BBC.


Wembley has more, but I suppose they are spread out all over the place and therefore difficult to put a thousand people into at the same time. :wink:
L'éléphant October 15, 2023 at 01:57 #845862
Findings: C. difficile was recoverable from air sampled at heights up to 25 cm above the toilet seat.

Okay. But converting 25 cm to inches results in 9.84" in height. This is good for people who don't have the habit of stooping down to this level of the toilet bowl while flushing. I know I stand up while flushing and stand over the sink washing my hands, which adds to the distance from the toilet bowl. Like what Reply to praxis had mentioned, people don't hang out around the toilet bowl after they're done with it.


Leontiskos October 15, 2023 at 02:42 #845870
Reply to BC

Hindus have been known to smear cow dung on the walls and floors of their houses, and this supposedly has health benefits (among other things). Maybe it's all backwards, and we should take pains to mind the data, leaving the lid open and keeping our head within 25 cm of the toilet seat while flushing. :chin:
Hanover October 15, 2023 at 04:09 #845882
My wife, bless her heart, can't remember to open the lid after use. This leads me to absent-mindedly urine and defecate on the lid. It's a point of good natured ribbing between us, although we do have quite the pile of waste built up over the past month or so.

I should wipe it up, but I hate to just discard good compost material for my tomato garden.
BC October 15, 2023 at 04:32 #845885
Reply to Michael Granted, clostridium difficile is bad news for the already-ailing patient, but I haven't heard of any studies identifying death-dealing fecal fountains issuing forth from public toilets.

That said, one shouldn't hang around in public toilets any longer than necessary. It might be bad for one's health and it is certainly bad for one's reputation.
BC October 15, 2023 at 04:36 #845886
Reply to Leontiskos I saw that in a video about India. The dung dries to a shiny finish. Fine for dry weather, but when it rains and is damp? But then we're talking about the blessed dung of sacred cows here, not your ordinary Angus on its way to the slaughter house.
Leontiskos October 15, 2023 at 04:54 #845891
Quoting BC
But then we're talking about the blessed dung of sacred cows here...


True. I suppose lid protocol largely depends on one's holiness quotient. I mean, I know I am holy. I'm not sure about you. I sure don't buy that (profane) bull's shit that all dogs go to heaven. Maybe a few.

---

Reply to Hanover - :lol:
Michael October 15, 2023 at 10:10 #845935
Quoting BC
I haven't heard of any studies identifying death-dealing fecal fountains issuing forth from public toilets.


Pretty high bar to set there. Just the general grossness of it is enough for me to want to close the lid before flushing. Don't understand why anyone else would feel differently. Closing a lid is hardly a hassle.
Jamal October 15, 2023 at 10:45 #845941
Quoting Michael
Don't understand why anyone else would feel differently


Most people with an eccentric preference probably feel the same. The fact is that people are lazy so they don’t bother.

But the original issue was about the seat, not the lid. Stand-up men leave it up and women have to then put it down before they use it. Sit-down women leave it down and men have to then put it up before they use it. Hence the battle of the sexes.
Baden October 15, 2023 at 10:54 #845943
Quoting Jamal
The fact is that people are lazy so they don’t bother.


How dare you.

@Michael Please find a new hobby. This obsession with toilets is obsessive and toilet-like. That can't be good.

Hanover October 15, 2023 at 12:21 #845971
When I was a cat I ALWAYS covered my waste with a few scratches of litter for the very reason @Michael said. Leaving it uncovered is unsanitary and inconsiderate.
Michael October 15, 2023 at 12:58 #845979
Reply to Baden Weird that you think it's obsessive. I'd make the same point about eating food that fell on the floor. Probably won't kill me or even make me sick, but it's gross and unsanitary so I don't do it.

Lowering a lid before flushing is almost no effort, so it's strange that you lot are acting so defensive about not doing it. :roll:
Jamal October 15, 2023 at 13:52 #845990
Bloody millennials.
Baden October 15, 2023 at 14:04 #845991
Baden October 15, 2023 at 14:06 #845992
Quoting Michael
I'd make the same point about eating food that fell on the floor. Probably won't kill me or even make me sick, but it's gross and unsanitary so I don't do it.


Your hostility towards floors is troubling.
Hanover October 15, 2023 at 14:40 #845997
Reply to Michael Three second rule says if you pick it by then and blow the gems off it's fine to eat.

You've obviously never had kids.
Hanover October 15, 2023 at 14:50 #846000
More importantly, there is actually a correlation between being exposed to filth and health, particularly GI health because the removal of "contaminants" actually deprives the body of important bacteria. They found early on, for example, that Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis were more prevalent in industrialized and sanitary societies than in agricultural societies. https://badgut.org/information-centre/a-z-digestive-topics/animal-exposure-reduces-the-risk-of-developing-ibd/#:~:text=After%20adjusting%20for%20potentially%20confounding,Crohn's%20disease%20and%20ulcerative%20colitis.

My gut health is kept in check by my abundance of household goatshit, chickenshit, catshit, dogshit, peopleshit, and open air toilet flushing.

I also eat off the floor.
Jamal October 15, 2023 at 15:13 #846005
I don't eat off the floor, but only because I've got a bad knee and find it difficult to squat, crouch, bend, or descend.
praxis October 15, 2023 at 15:40 #846008
Reply to Hanover

City folk can simply swallow some of these fecal transplant pills pictured below.

[hide="Reveal at your own risk of being grossed out"]User image[/hide]
fdrake October 15, 2023 at 15:47 #846010
Reply to praxis

Those look a bit like capsules of store bought caramelised onions.
Baden October 15, 2023 at 16:01 #846012
Quoting Hanover
Three second rule says if you pick it by then and blow the gems off it's fine to eat.


:up:

Quoting Jamal
I don't eat off the floor, but only because I've got a bad knee and find it difficult to squat, crouch, bend, or descend.


One reason I regularly do Yoga is to avoid this problem of not being able to retrieve and consume floorish food (as the local colloquialism goes).
Leontiskos October 15, 2023 at 17:03 #846031
Quoting Michael
Lowering a lid before flushing is almost no effort...


Emphasis, "almost." What we really need are automatic lid-droppers. We have automatic flushers, sinks, towel dispensers, and hand dryers, so I think this is the next step in our steady march of progress.
Jamal October 15, 2023 at 17:32 #846040
Quoting Baden
One reason I regularly do Yoga is to avoid this problem of not being able to retrieve and consume floorish food (as the local colloquialism goes).


In Scotland we say floorsome.
wonderer1 October 15, 2023 at 17:39 #846041
Quoting Leontiskos
What we really need are automatic lid-droppers.


Hopefully well engineered, to respond appropriately to worshippers of the porcelain god.
BC October 15, 2023 at 18:17 #846051
Reply to Michael Domestic toilets in the US are lidded. Public toilets -- airports, hospitals, public restrooms everywhere -- never have lids -- just the seat portion. I don't know why. lThat is a big reason why Americans, at least, would not expect to lower the lid before flushing.

Public toilets are often a hygienic challenge from the door knob to the toilet seat.
Hanover October 15, 2023 at 18:36 #846055

One reason I regularly do Yoga is to avoid this problem of not being able to retrieve and consume floorish food (as the local colloquialism goes).[/quote]

I don't do yoga because I'm straight, but i instead developed mad foot skillz where I can flip objects up with my feet to my hands without having to bend down. When I bend down it makes this weird grunting sound.
Jamal October 15, 2023 at 18:57 #846064
You guys are talking about eating food from the floor, but I’m talking about eating food off, or off of, the floor. Using the floor instead of the cumbersome table/plate combo. Lapping up the small puddles of floor juice. Gobbling up the bountiful crumbs and morsels.

But as I say, I don’t manage to do that these days. Discarded dusty morsels accumulate.
Sir2u October 15, 2023 at 20:31 #846113
Quoting BC
Domestic toilets in the US are lidded. Public toilets -- airports, hospitals, public restrooms everywhere -- never have lids -- just the seat portion. I don't know why.


So that people don't stand on the and break the lid. It also makes them difficult to steal if they are not there.
Hanover October 15, 2023 at 22:08 #846147
The purpose of a dog, in part, is to clean the floor as food falls. In Hanoveria, the mythical place where everything is as I'd expect it to be, the finest restaurants would employ eager canines to immediately clean the floor of the droppings from the diners' ravenous lips.

The dogs would also talk, providing stimulating discussion about world events, philosophy, relationships, the arts, and medicine.

The chandlers would be made of ice, dripping slowly into your glass to provide just the right amount of water for your meal, the lights dimming and then ceasing from the melting the precise moment you're satiated. You would then walk off into the dark, a warm gentle anonymous hand directing your way into the warm splendor of the evening air, you releasing a gentle belch, lending perfection to the moment.

Your limousine would then float you towards your home silently in the dark, rising up towards the stars, the lights flickering about as you enter a magical Christmas tree display of infinite blinking lights. You would feel your home approaching as you drifted lazily, enveloped by the clouds

But I slightly digress with this talk of Hanoveria, where King Hanoverous maintains a stable of cherubs so relaxed, their vomits of gentleness soothing the most anxious into an effortless state of downy ease.

But back on topic because I do think I'm on a tangent:

You probably should shut the toilet lid ex post shitto so as to not spray your ass debris about the shittatorium.
Baden October 16, 2023 at 02:06 #846185

Quoting Jamal
In Scotland we say floorsome


Nice. :cool:
Jamal October 16, 2023 at 06:38 #846209
Breakfast.

User image
Noble Dust October 16, 2023 at 06:40 #846211
Reply to Jamal people sing the praises of coffee and cigarettes, but what about coffee and seafood? They don’t know what they’re missing.
Jamal October 16, 2023 at 06:47 #846214
Reply to Noble Dust Indeed. I dip crab sticks in my coffee any time of day.
Jamal October 16, 2023 at 06:56 #846215
One can of tuna between four people and only one waffle each. I thought 1950s America was a time of prosperity.
Baden October 16, 2023 at 10:18 #846241
Reply to Jamal

Add some butterfingers and you've the makings of a floorsome foursome there. :yum:

Baden October 16, 2023 at 10:21 #846243
Quoting Hanover
The chandlers would be made of ice


User image

Hanover October 16, 2023 at 12:26 #846247
Reply to Baden That son of a bitch spellcheck got me again.
Noble Dust October 16, 2023 at 14:18 #846259
Reply to Jamal

After a fourth of a can of tuna and one waffle, you lose your appetite and you're good to go for the rest of the day.
Jamal October 16, 2023 at 19:25 #846292
Reply to Noble Dust

I later realized that the recipe calls for one cup of tuna, not one can. But since I refuse to get my head around American measurements, I don’t know how much tuna a cup of tuna is.

Of course, I have in the past googled to get the conversion, and have even searched for images of said cups—since in my world, cups come in many sizes—but I immediately forget.

My guess is that a cup of tuna is more than a can. Then again, your standard cans might not be the same size as European cans, so I’m totally lost now.

Hanover October 16, 2023 at 21:43 #846312
Reply to Jamal A cup is 8 ounces. 2 cups, a pint. 2 pints, a quart. 4 quarts, a gallon.

3 teaspoons is a tablespoon. 16 tablespoons is a cup.

One tuna is three flounder. 5 flounder is 7 cod. 8 cod is a teaspoon.

With this, you can figure out what a tuna is in cups.

Show your work.

Noble Dust October 16, 2023 at 21:45 #846314
Reply to Jamal

Aha, well a can of tuna is usually 5 ounces here, which is 147.868 milliliters, or whatever it is you use. A cup is 8 ounces, which is 236.588 milliliters. 8 ounces is also half a pound, and a quarter pound of protein is generally considered a serving size, so the recipe gives each family member half a serving of protein on their waffle. Still rather meager, but more than a fourth of a can.
Noble Dust October 16, 2023 at 21:47 #846316
@Hanover's explanation is, as always, simpler and more to the point.
BC October 16, 2023 at 23:53 #846351
Reply to Jamal Look here, Jamal. Putting canned tuna fish on a waffle (especially if it was a frozen waffle) strikes me as the sort of thing that people who hate food would do. Creamed tuna fish (made with white sauce, no canned soup) can be put on toast, a baking powder biscuit, (which is not a cookie), or a boiled potato. Butter, maple syrup, and blueberries belong on home made waffles.

Now if your waffle came from a factory, then a freezer, and finally a toaster, it doesn't matter what you put on it--tuna, cat food, or rancid bacon grease.

BC October 17, 2023 at 00:00 #846353
Amazon has several-pound cans of tunafish. Handy when running a feeding program for destitute philosophers. Corrugated cardboard waffles come in many sizes, depending.
frank October 17, 2023 at 00:07 #846354
Quoting BC
Amazon has several-pound cans of tunafish. Handy when running a feeding program for destitute philosophers.


Wow!

frank October 17, 2023 at 00:09 #846356
I don't really understand why there's no speaker of the house. wtf?
Hanover October 17, 2023 at 00:45 #846360
Back to toilets.

It turns out ass wiping leaves substantially more shit residue than a bidet ass hosing.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/using-toilet-paper-grosser-think-111517926.html

In these, the united states of America, the ass hose is a rarity. Part of being American happens right there on the shitter, where you wear a scaly ass sore into your backside from all the shit scrubbing. I suppose if we were French, we might wash last night's supper from our pucker with a simple spritz of Perrier, but where I'm from, we drill down hard and fast, buffing ourselves silly.

I'd be interested to know how others polish off their taint throughout the world, so if you're up to sharing, let me know how you do it in your neck of the woods.

BC October 17, 2023 at 01:53 #846368
Quoting Hanover
America happens right there on the shitter, where you wear a scaly ass sore into your backside from all the shit scrubbing


Way too much information,
Tom Storm October 17, 2023 at 02:21 #846370
Quoting Jamal
One can of tuna between four people and only one waffle each. I thought 1950s America was a time of prosperity.


Smaller portions: It was a time of less fat cunts.
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 03:45 #846384
Quoting Hanover
flounder


At the Ukrainian restaurant the other day, I did what I usually do: instead of deciphering the menu, I used my phone to look at the restaurant’s page on Yandex Eats, the delivery app, since it has pictures of the dishes on offer.

I saw something I liked the look of—chunky fried fish—but I didn’t recognize the word ??????? (kambala) in the description, so I asked my wife, and she said it’s that big flatfish, and I said “really, halibut?!” and she said, in no uncertain terms, “yes.” Halibut is awesome so I ordered it.

What had appeared in the photograph to be big chunks of fish meat was mostly bone. The pickings were slim. I said honeylamb, this is not fucking halibut, and she said oh really how do you know. I demonstrated, by wielding the skeleton, that it was a small fish. Then I confirmed it by translating kambala: it means flounder (in both Russian and Ukrainian). My wife had been overconfident, and I had been over optimistic.

Since you used to be a cat and are now a flounder (according to some), I thought you’d be interested.
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 04:23 #846387
Quoting Tom Storm
Smaller portions: It was a time of less fat cunts.


Fewer fat cunts :razz:
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 04:41 #846389
I found this on the website of the Feodosia fish museum in Crimea:

User image

A still from the 2013 German film based on the Brothers Grimm fairy tale “The Fisherman and His Wife.” Modern technologies have made it possible to very effectively depict a magical talking flounder.
Wayfarer October 17, 2023 at 07:27 #846405
One interesting fact about flounders (and flatfish generally) is that as small fry, they have regular eyes, one on each side of their head. As they mature, one eye migrates to what becomes the top side. Another minor miracle of evolutionary development.

On a totally separate topic - I’m not a betting man, but I would wager that at this point in the FTX trial, it looks like SBF is heading for a long, long time behind bars.
Michael October 17, 2023 at 08:04 #846407
Quoting Jamal
Fewer fat cunts


If they were also slimmer then it would also be less.
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 08:07 #846408
Quoting Wayfarer
One interesting fact about flounders (and flatfish generally) is that as small fry, they have regular eyes, one on each side of their head. As they mature, one eye migrates to what becomes the top side. Another minor miracle of evolutionary development.


Yes, and they’re among the very few asymmetrical vertebrates.

Quoting Michael
If they were also slimmer then it would also be less.


For clarity I think that would have to be “less-fat cunts,” with the all-important hyphen.
universeness October 17, 2023 at 10:02 #846414
Quoting Jamal
Since you used to be a cat and are now a flounder (according to some), I thought you’d be interested.


Just for clarity's sake: The physical meaning of floundering:
To struggle or stagger clumsily in mud or water.
"he was floundering about in the shallow offshore waters"
Similar: struggle, thrash, thresh, flail, toss and turn, twist and turn, pitch, splash, stagger, stumble, falter, lurch, blunder, fumble, grope, squirm, writhe.

Mentally, the term refers to feelings/thoughts of great confusion:
"she floundered, not knowing quite what to say"
Similar: be out of one's depth, be in the dark, have difficulty, be confounded, be confused, be dumbfounded, be flummoxed, be clueless, be foxed, be fazed, be floored, be beaten.

A comparison with human behaviour, is based on the observed behaviours of the 'flounder fish,' and should not be confused, with a comparison between the physical appearance of the fish, and the human being accused of 'floundering.'
Baden October 17, 2023 at 10:03 #846415
Modern technologies have made it possible to very effectively depict a magical talking flounder.


Super hard to tell that from the real thing. :up:

Michael October 17, 2023 at 10:09 #846416
Quoting Jamal
For clarity I think that would have to be “less-fat cunts,” with the all-important hyphen.


I wonder how one hyphenates speech. :chin:
universeness October 17, 2023 at 10:20 #846417
Reply to Michael
Surely by simply saying 'hyphen!'
So, "less hyphen fat"? Perhaps you would say hyphen in a lower or altered tone of voice or use your hands to simulate a line in the air, as you uttered hyphen. :lol:
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 10:34 #846419
Quoting universeness
A comparison with human behaviour, is based on the observed behaviours of the 'flounder fish,' and should not be confused, with a comparison between the physical appearance of the fish, and the human being accused of 'floundering.'


Yes, I took the comparison the other way and accused Hanover of being a flounder, based on accusations he has received to the effect that he flounders in debates with atheists.
Metaphysician Undercover October 17, 2023 at 10:41 #846420
Quoting BC
Creamed tuna fish (made with white sauce, no canned soup) can be put on toast, a baking powder biscuit, (which is not a cookie), or a boiled potato.


Creamed tuna! It can't be beat. On toast, on biscuits, on potatoes. Whatever's available, it's always good. But you missed my favourite, on rice. Ever try it on pasta? Oh yeah that becomes a different meal altogether, requiring the soup.

Friggin advertising executives at Campbells know how to weasel their product into every dish, making it appear like it's that product which is essential to the dish. How many recipes can you find on the internet which require Campbells tomato soup? What's so special about this soup? It appears like they have a secret ingredient they name as "flavour".

Jamal October 17, 2023 at 10:47 #846424
Quoting Baden
Super hard to tell that from the real thing


I still think CGI never really captures magical talking flounders convincingly.
universeness October 17, 2023 at 11:01 #846428
Quoting Jamal
based on accusations he has received to the effect that he flounders in debates with atheists.


Yes, but I would further stress that imo, when I have watched on-line atheist/theist debate, between those who are considered to be the most able and knowledgable on either side. (unlike myself or Hanover,) I witness the theist side get defeated on almost every point debated. Although I do fully admit to having a bias for the atheist side, I do try, with all the honesty I can muster, to understand the logic/reason/rationale being presented by the theist side. So many of the atheist side, spent much of their lives as dedicated, highly respected, very learned theists/theologians however. Even at the heddy heights of Bart Ehrman, many have became atheists. I don't think this is true to anywhere near the same degree from the "dedicated, highly respected, very learned atheist side," who have became theists.
Not many, if any, of the likes of, from Bertrand Russell through to Christopher Hitchens (even on their deathbeds) and Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins et al, have switched from atheism to theism.
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 11:06 #846430
Reply to universeness Flounder DESTROYED!
Metaphysician Undercover October 17, 2023 at 11:21 #846432
Quoting universeness
I don't think this is true to anywhere near the same degree from the "dedicated, highly respected, very learned atheist side," who have became theists.


I switched from atheist to theist. As a very young child, I was exposed to "God is watching you, don't do anything bad or you'll be punished". So I tested that theory by being very bad, and proved it wrong. For the most part I came away completely unscathed. I concluded there is no God, and I spent my childhood and adolescence a devoted atheist.

However, after studying philosophy, I realized the fault of my conclusion. The problem was with the primary premise, the theory. I was fed a false image of God, that He was watching me and would punish me if I was bad. I then realized that the conclusion was faulty, and it's not the case that there is no God, I did not have sufficient premises to make that conclusion. The only valid conclusion I could make, is that God is not as premised in that specific theory which I tested.
universeness October 17, 2023 at 11:46 #846434
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
I then realized that the conclusion was faulty, and it's not the case that there is no God, I did not have sufficient premises to make that conclusion. The only valid conclusion I could make, is that God is not as premised in that specific theory which I tested.


The vast majority of atheists would agree with your first sentence above, imo. Many atheists call themselves 'agnostic atheists,' which seems to fit your first sentence above.
Your second sentence above, assigns more credence to the existence of god than your first sentence, so perhaps it would be more accurate to label you an agnostic theist. Perhaps you would prefer to not be labelled in any such ways.
I consider myself more in-line with 'hard' atheism. I am 99.999% convinced no gods exist or you could say I am 0.001% convinced that a god does exist! The god posit is unfalsifiable. God cannot be completely disproved by any means we currently know of, especially if you consider the deist position as well.
I can at best, keep pushing my 0.001% credence level, towards smaller and smaller decimal places.
If I push it to smaller than the planck size, then I think that throws god posits into one of the last major gaps science has on offer, 'the gods that may exist inside black holes.' :grin:
universeness October 17, 2023 at 12:00 #846437
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
So I tested that theory by being very bad, and proved it wrong. For the most part I came away completely unscathed.


Just as a point of interest. How did you get past the claim that your punishment will kick in after you are dead?

Does that fear contribute/dictate to your level of acceptance that 'but god could still exist, even though it seems to be completely non-interactive with me, in any tangible, objectively demonstrable, empirically evidenced, demonstrably repeatable way, to all who require proof.'
Faith that requires no objectively demonstrable empirical facts, that can be tested and verified repeatedly using the scientific method is a very poor indicator of truth imo. Surely for any philosopher who values skepticism, faith based acceptance of anything as a 'truth' is folly.
jorndoe October 17, 2023 at 15:29 #846469
Folks, Frank the Tank on the move.

Tortoise, Frank the Tank, found wandering in a B.C. field of bok choy needs home
[sup]— Nono Shen · CP24 · Oct 17, 2023[/sup]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1714211509092446701[/tweet]
Tortoise, Frank the Tank, found wandering in a B.C. field of bok choy needs home (@CP24 · Oct 17, 2023)

Hanover October 17, 2023 at 15:40 #846472
Quoting Jamal
What had appeared in the photograph to be big chunks of fish meat was mostly bone. The pickings were slim. I said honeylamb, this is not fucking halibut, and she said oh really how do you know. I demonstrated, by wielding the skeleton, that it was a small fish. Then I confirmed it by translating kambala: it means flounder (in both Russian and Ukrainian). My wife had been overconfident, and I had been over optimistic.


My wife speaks only Scots Gaelic (not sure why) and we were at our local Scottish eatery and the menu said "bròg motair air a ghoil," and I asked her what that meant. She said it was a hamburger (as she suddenly could speak English). Turns out it's a boiled motorcylce boot. I was like sugar-de-dumpling, what the fuck?

She just said I was fookin lavvy heid and to eat my boot.
Jamal October 17, 2023 at 15:48 #846473
Reply to Hanover Women! :roll:
Metaphysician Undercover October 18, 2023 at 00:46 #846604
Quoting universeness
How did you get past the claim that your punishment will kick in after you are dead?


That wasn't what was told to me.
BC October 18, 2023 at 01:45 #846619
Quoting universeness
Faith that requires no objectively demonstrable empirical facts, that can be tested and verified repeatedly using the scientific method is a very poor indicator of truth imo.


That IS your opinion, of course, and I suppose you don't see anything wrong with it. However, faith is belief which does not depend on (and may not seek) scientific proof. That's the difference between evidence based science and faith based religion. You may not like religion, and that's fine, but it's not reasonable to expect faith to work like science.

They aren't equivalent. There are many good reasons why we apply an evidence-based approach--but not faith--to real-world problems.
Leontiskos October 18, 2023 at 03:00 #846629
Quoting universeness
Not many, if any, of the likes of, from Bertrand Russell through to Christopher Hitchens (even on their deathbeds) and Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins et al, have switched from atheism to theism.


I looked at some lists and it seems there are quite a few. Anthony Flew, Elizabeth Anscombe, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Walker Percy, Mortimer Adler, C.S. Lewis, Charles Péguy, Gabriel Marcel, Evelyn Waugh, Léon Bloy, and then some lesser-known but still highly influential thinkers, such as Benedict Ashley, Avery Dulles, Edith Stein, and Edward Feser. These are all philosophers or novelists, and my eye is Catholic so that probably comes to the fore here.
Noble Dust October 18, 2023 at 03:48 #846634
Quoting BC
it's not reasonable to expect faith to work like science.


:party:

The world would look different if this idea and its fractaling implications were broadly understood.
universeness October 18, 2023 at 09:44 #846676
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
How did you get past the claim that your punishment will kick in after you are dead?
— universeness

That wasn't what was told to me.


Does that invalidate the question, as far as you are concerned?
universeness October 18, 2023 at 09:54 #846680
Reply to BC
Taking things on faith has a role to play. I do not think that the concept behind the word is completely useless in all cases. It's not useless when it comes to a question such as 'does my wife love me?' etc.
It is also valid imo, when asking a question such as 'can human beings build a better global human civilisation than any example existing today or in the past?'
But I think faith is a useless epistemology when it comes to posits about our origin truth or as a means to produce any kind of social/moral/legal or political, guidance/legislation, and yes you are correct, that IS my strongly held opinion. But, like you and everyone else, we all have opinions, just like we all have orifices!

A good (I think Arabic source) of describing faith is, 'sure, have faith, but tie up your camel!'
universeness October 18, 2023 at 10:17 #846689
Quoting Leontiskos
Anthony Flew, Elizabeth Anscombe, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, Walker Percy, Mortimer Adler, C.S. Lewis, Charles Péguy, Gabriel Marcel, Evelyn Waugh, Léon Bloy, and then some lesser-known but still highly influential thinkers, such as Benedict Ashley, Avery Dulles, Edith Stein, and Edward Feser. These are all philosophers or novelists, and my eye is Catholic so that probably comes to the fore here.


I have some familiarity with one or two names on your list. I was referring to staunch atheists, who have professed their atheism publicly, to a similar extent to Bertrand Russell or Christopher Hitchens. You need to give me examples of such people who have then became theists. There are one or two examples, but not many, and nowhere near the number of staunch theists, who have spent most of their lives and their career in theism, but have nonetheless became atheists. Bart Ehrman is a good example, but the list is quite substantial by comparison to 'staunch atheist' to theist.

Just taking one from your list: C.S. Lewis.
From wiki:
[i]Clive Staples Lewis, FBA (29 November 1898 – 22 November 1963) was a British writer, literary scholar, and Anglican lay theologian. He held academic positions in English literature at both Magdalen College, Oxford (1925–1954), and Magdalene College, Cambridge (1954–1963). He is best known as the author of The Chronicles of Narnia, but he is also noted for his other works of fiction, such as The Screwtape Letters and The Space Trilogy, and for his non-fiction Christian apologetics, including Mere Christianity, Miracles, and The Problem of Pain.

Lewis was a close friend of J. R. R. Tolkien, author of The Lord of the Rings. Both men served on the English faculty at Oxford University and were active in the informal Oxford literary group known as the Inklings. According to Lewis's 1955 memoir Surprised by Joy, he was baptized in the Church of Ireland but fell away from his faith during adolescence. Lewis returned to Anglicanism at the age of 32, owing to the influence of Tolkien and other friends, and he became an "ordinary layman of the Church of England".[1] Lewis's faith profoundly affected his work, and his wartime radio broadcasts on the subject of Christianity brought him wide acclaim.[/i]

Lewis was never a staunch atheist, akin to such as Russell, Hitchens, Harris or Dawkins, imo.
Metaphysician Undercover October 18, 2023 at 10:34 #846696
Quoting universeness
Does that invalidate the question, as far as you are concerned?


Yes, because at that time in my childhood when my atheism was consolidated, that possibility was not considered. As I said my atheism was based in a faulty premise. You just pointed out another way in which that premise was faulty, but it is irrelevant to my decision making at the time.

Quoting universeness
Taking things on faith has a role to play.


Empirical science is based in faith, faith in what the senses reveal to us. This is the issue Hume exposed with the problems of induction and causation. The premises from which science proceeds are derived from the appearances produced by sensation. However, things may not be as they appear to be.

So if you think faith has no role to play in epistemology, I suggest you think again. Faith is necessarily foundational, and any attempts to remove it from its supporting place are just exercises in self-deception.
universeness October 18, 2023 at 10:42 #846698
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
So if you think faith has no role to play in epistemology, I suggest you think again. Faith is necessarily foundational, and any attempts to remove it from its supporting place are just exercises in self-deception.

I didn't suggest that faith has 'no' role to play in epistemology, I suggested it was a very poor epistemology to apply, when you are seeking truth, other than having faith that 'the truth is out there.'

We are moving to a depth of exchange that is probably better suited to the threads, rather than the chatbox/shoutbox. I don't want to distract too much from the traditional TPF shoutbox whimsy/foolery.
Metaphysician Undercover October 18, 2023 at 11:09 #846703
Reply to universeness
The problem is that some people take religion very seriously, and you want to shout about them in the shoutbox as if what they take seriously is some type of foolery.
universeness October 18, 2023 at 12:32 #846714
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
Nonsense :roll:
But, if you have a problem insofar that my personal opinion of theism is not complimentary and nor do I accept that its adherents or preachers, are due respect, merely because some hold to such faith with great conviction, then I can only be honest with you, when I type that I have very little concern about your opinion of my opinions on the topic. No doubt you hold a similar position towards me. The universe will survive.
jorndoe October 18, 2023 at 16:32 #846785
(emphasis mine)

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Faith is necessarily foundational


I'd say belief is part of knowing.

Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
science is [...] faith in what the senses reveal to us


As in "seeing is believing"?
By the way, you don't get to other people [sup](u, s, i, w)[/sup], or much of anywhere, without senses. (How far have you gotten?)

BC October 18, 2023 at 16:57 #846787
Quoting jorndoe
As in "seeing is believing"?


A less common phrase is "believing is seeing" which has implications outside of religious faith. Our perceptions are often enough shaped by what we believe. Is that group of people performing a vigorous political demonstration or is it a mob bent on disruption and destruction? Are the people in the tent city unfortunate victims of neglect, or are they drug-addicted degenerates?

It can be difficult to see outside the box of belief.
Leontiskos October 18, 2023 at 17:53 #846794
Quoting universeness
...but the list is quite substantial by comparison to 'staunch atheist' to theist.


What list? You haven't given one. You continue to speak in generalities.

Quoting universeness
Lewis was never a staunch atheist


Sure he was. Here is one piece of evidence among many:

Quoting C. S. Lewis as Atheist turned Apostle
At age seventeen, C. S. Lewis explained bluntly to a Christian friend he’d known since childhood, “I believe in no religion. There is absolutely no proof for any of them, and from a philosophical standpoint Christianity is not even the best.”


Indeed, Lewis' early relationship with Tolkien was strained given Lewis' overt atheism and his tendency to ridicule religion. Surprised by Joy gives more detail on this question of Lewis' atheism.

But I'm not sure what "staunch" has to do with it. "Staunch" correlates to irrational.
universeness October 18, 2023 at 18:52 #846805
Quoting Leontiskos
What list? You haven't given one. You continue to speak in generalities.


I can't spoon feed everyone pal, do your own research.
Here are some names to get you started. Bart Ehrman, Matt Dillahunty, Jimmy Snow, Joseph Atwill, Dan barker, Dr Richard Carrier, Dr Jan Koster, Prof Robert Eisenman, Dr Rod Blackhirst, Dr Harold Ellens, Dave Warnock, Seth Andrews, Derek Lambert, Dr Robert Price (even though he is also a trump supporter.), Professor Elaine Pagels, ....
The list goes on and on. You should watch some of the 'MythVision' podcasts by Derek Lambert, he is forever interviewing ex theists who are highly qualified in theology or have held high status positions in one religion or another and are now atheists.
Here are two further examples for you: Dr Richard C Miller and Dr Robert Cargill

and


All the folks mentioned above were once 'staunch theists,' at the levels I was trying to explain to you.
Leontiskos October 18, 2023 at 18:57 #846807
Reply to universeness - I have only heard of Elaine Pagels and Bart Ehrman, and Pagels is the only name of any worth. The list I gave <here> was based on merit. Those are well-known and well-respected cultural figures. Anyone can drum up long lists of names that no one has ever heard of.

Anyway, take care. This is silly.
universeness October 18, 2023 at 19:08 #846808
Quoting Leontiskos
Those are well-known and well-respected cultural figures. Anyone can drum up long lists of names that no one has ever heard of.


Don't get confused between no-one and you! My list was of contemporaries who are involved in the main atheism/theism exchanges today. You asked for 'staunch theists,' who are now 'staunch atheists.'
I decided to go for live ones, many with PhD's in theology subjects. Bye!
Leontiskos October 18, 2023 at 19:14 #846809
Quoting universeness
My list was of contemporaries who are involved in the main atheism/theism exchanges today.


Ergo: if someone is super involved in atheist polemics, then they will know these obscure names. (post hoc rationalization)
universeness October 18, 2023 at 19:17 #846810
Reply to Leontiskos
No, just anyone who is paying attention.
praxis October 18, 2023 at 21:36 #846834
I painted a classy fish with a top hat this morning.

User image
Alehx October 18, 2023 at 22:43 #846845
universeness October 18, 2023 at 22:50 #846846
Reply to praxis
I finished this one last Thursday. It's not as cheery as yours:
User image
praxis October 18, 2023 at 22:59 #846848
Reply to universeness

My personal assistant wrote up a bit about the painting:

"Elegance Beneath the Waves" is a whimsical and thought-provoking piece of art that invites viewers to ponder the juxtaposition of two seemingly incongruous elements: a fish and a top hat. This imaginative painting serves as a symbol of the extraordinary diversity and beauty that exists in the world, even in unexpected places.

The fish, with its glistening scales and graceful curves, represents the enchanting underwater world that often remains hidden from our everyday view. It reminds us of the hidden treasures that can be found when we take the time to explore and appreciate the natural world. The fish is depicted with a serene expression, symbolizing the tranquility and grace that can be found in the depths of the ocean.

The top hat, on the other hand, is a symbol of human sophistication and style. It represents our desire for refinement, culture, and the pursuit of elegance. Placed atop the fish's head, the top hat serves as a reminder that beauty and sophistication can be found in the most unexpected and unconventional places, transcending the boundaries of species and habitat.

The juxtaposition of the fish and the top hat challenges our perceptions of what is possible, encouraging us to think beyond the ordinary and mundane. It prompts us to embrace the idea that elegance and grace can be found not only in the expected realms of human society but also in the natural world.

The use of vivid colors and intricate details in the painting adds to its overall charm and visual appeal. The interplay of light and shadow on the fish's scales and the glossy surface of the top hat creates a sense of depth and texture, drawing the viewer into this enchanting underwater world.

In "Elegance Beneath the Waves," the artist invites us to contemplate the inherent beauty and grace that exists in both the familiar and the extraordinary, reminding us that art has the power to unveil the hidden wonders of our world and broaden our perspectives. It's a celebration of the unexpected and a tribute to the boundless creativity of the human imagination.


What the hell is yours about?

Reply to Alehx

Welcome to the forum! 1st post and already demonstrating excellent taste and discrimination. :clap:
universeness October 18, 2023 at 23:06 #846850
Quoting praxis
What the hell is yours about?


:lol: Lions and tigers and bears oh my!

Wow, your own PA, not bad guy!
Good with words as well, hope you pay them well.
Hanover October 19, 2023 at 00:03 #846858
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the Mighty Mighty Hanover Dog, consisting of homemade chili, giardiniera, cheddar cheese, mustard, jalapeños, all on a hoagie roll, with the Sabrett hotdog buried deep withinUser image
Noble Dust October 19, 2023 at 00:51 #846863
Reply to Hanover

I...it...because...that's...

Is it a bastardization of a Chicago dog? I can't identify my emotions right now. Chili and Giardiniera feels like a sin punishable by eternal conscious torment. Either that, or it might be the best combination of all time. I don't know how to feel.
Hanover October 19, 2023 at 01:04 #846867
Reply to Noble Dust Oh yeah, it's an in your face statement that doesn't back down. It's not entirely clear what that statement is, but it screams America in some primordial way.
Noble Dust October 19, 2023 at 01:16 #846872
Reply to Hanover

I think the statement is shout-said in a vaguely southern drawl and is a combination of sounds and grunts that almost resembles a comprehensible sentence of words, but just falls short. A stalactite of spittle may or may not finish off the brief tirade.
praxis October 19, 2023 at 02:15 #846892
Reply to Hanover

Nice. I can't help thinking the cheese should be melted though.
Noble Dust October 19, 2023 at 02:54 #846904
Reply to praxis

While I know what you mean, there's something about cold shredded cheese on top of a hot dish that's incomprehensibly enticing. I don't know where that comes from. Also, if the cheese was melted, the whole thing would probably be vaguely toasted, which feels very wrong for a hot dog. I vote cold cheese.
praxis October 19, 2023 at 03:02 #846908
Reply to Noble Dust

When they're hot off the grill I slice the dogs open and add wedges of cheddar. That alone melts, and homemade chili on top of that would surely finish the job. By the way, while I'm nitpicking, the mustard should be on the bun. Or maybe that too is a Southern thing.
Noble Dust October 19, 2023 at 03:11 #846911
Reply to praxis

While I categorized Hani's chili and giardiniera combo as a sin punishable by eternal conscious torment, I would categorize cheddar-stuffed dogs as a sin punishable by an undisclosed time spent in purgatory. Chili dogs are unnecessary but acceptable. The mustard should be placed on the dog in a pleasing snaking "S" pattern, not on the bun, nor atop the in-question unmelted shredded cheddar. Mustard on top of the giardiniera could work, but at that point one questions why both are present together rather than just one.