Reply to Tom Storm Do those going to hell have to stop in heaven to find out their destination? Seems like unnecessary travel.
Around 150,000 people die every day. One would think heaven would use something beside a flickering screen. One would have to stand there a long time to check the day's departure tickets. Not a problem, I suppose, since one would have eternity before one.
Will anyone be available to assist the day's dearly departed find their name among the 150,000 also rans to know whether they are damned or not?
No. It all began with our love of New York City. And with the fact that, although we are not theists, we believe that religious believers, all other things being equal, should be treated with respect. You don't get involved with philosophy often, but I value your input when the rabid atheists get started.
Reply to Jamal The fish looks excellent. Watermelon is summery. I don't particularly like it, but many memories of cook outs, holidays, and long hot days, so that's a good thing.
Beer also seems like it belongs, but it, like all alcohol, just makes me tired, kills my buzz, and makes me more introverted.
I'm surprised at the number of posts in this shoutbox that don't like watermelon. My diet is plant-based, though I eat fish and eggs. Maybe, I am free to say that I hate kiwis, the green flesh fruit. But I like watermelon a lot.
Although I like tart, acidic things, I realized a few years ago Kiwis are often under ripe and too acidic. If you get one that's sufficiently ripe it's quite nice, to me at least.
Reply to JamalReply to T Clark my father thought that watermelon was just an over-ripe cucumber. Watermelon (Citrullus lanatus) is a flowering plant species of the Cucurbitaceae family.
Watermelons used to be oblong; now they all seem to be spherical. I like watermelon, but only by itself, never in a dark leafy green salad--an abomination. Cucumbers are good too - alone or in salad, or pickled.
True. I will do what I can to get involved more. I often feel intimidated because I'm less well read than most I think, but these discussions are helpful for readers; I need to remind myself they're not about me.
Reflections on a Gift of Watermelon Pickle Received from a Friend Called Felicity
by John Tobias
During that summer
When unicorns were still possible;
When the purpose of knees
Was to be skinned;
When shiny horse chestnuts
(Hollowed out
Fitted with straws
Crammed with tobacco
Stolen from butts
in family ashtrays)
Were puffed in green lizard silence
While straddling thick branches
Far above and away
From the softening effects of
civilization;
During that summer—
Which may never have been at all;
But which has become more real
Than the one that was—
Watermelons ruled.
Thick imperial slices
Melting frigidly on sun-parched tongues
Dribbling from chins;
Leaving the best part,
The black bullet seeds,
To be spit out in rapid fire
Against the wall
Against the wind
Against each other;
And when the ammunition was spent,
There was always another bite:
It was a summer of limitless bites,
Of hungers quickly felt
And quickly forgotten
With the next careless gorging.
The bites are fewer now.
Each one is savored lingeringly,
Swallowed reluctantly.
But in a jar put up by Felicity,
The summer which never maybe was
Has been captured and preserved.
And when we unscrew the lid
And slice off a piece
And let it linger on our tongue:
Unicorns become possible again.
What became of the Chomsky thread? Did he ever answer?
He’s said that he’s working on it. Some unforeseen issues arose— like the death of his friend Dan Ellsberg, that has made it slow going. But we’ll post when he’s responded.
my father thought that watermelon was just an over-ripe cucumber. Watermelon (Citrullus lanatus) is a flowering plant species of the Cucurbitaceae family.
Watermelons used to be oblong; now they all seem to be spherical. I like watermelon, but only by itself, never in a dark leafy green salad--an abomination. Cucumbers are good too - alone or in salad, or pickled.
That's interesting. I don't much like watermelon or cucumber. Allthough, thinking back, there was that time, when I was a kid, that I got horribly vomitous after having eaten watermelon. While I don't have any reason to think that my getting sick was due to the watermelon, perhaps that experience programmed my brain to consider watermelon poison and evoke a disgust response.
I also can't stand cilantro, but I know that's a genetic thing.
Reply to wonderer1 a) we seem to be primed by evolution to avoid foods which have made us sick--nauseated--particularly when a particular food can be blamed. b) in my father's case, both cucumbers and watermelon caused indigestion. My guess is that those foods may be more ... reactive? than say, carrots.
Cilantro reminds me of the smell of rotting vegetable matter. Its flavor for me is just this side of repellent--not quite enough to avoid it, but too much to like it.
It's odd; I like some stinky cheeses, the scents of which remind me of various disgusting odors, but despite that they taste "good". Parmesan stinks. Limburger is a classic smelly soft cheese which reminds me of the rich fragrance of a dairy barn -- silage, cow manure (which I don't find objectionable) the breath of cattle, hay, ground grain feed, etc. It's not made by most cheese producers anymore because, I suppose, the number of people who like its flavor and aroma is a vanishing demographic. A sandwich of limburger, rye bread, raw onion, and liver sausage (braunschweiger) tasted good.
Cilantro reminds me of the smell of spoiled vegetable matter. Its flavor for me is just this side of repellent--not quite enough to avoid it, but too much to like it.
To me it tastes like dish soap, and can ruin an otherwise great meal. Peanut M&Ms is another disgust one for me, although I like peanuts and chocolate together in other things. It wasn't until I was an adult that I heard the story of how, when I was one, I got my hands on a five pound bag of peanut M&Ms...
Limburger is a classic smelly soft cheese which reminds me of the rich fragrance of a dairy barn -- silage, cow manure (which I don't find objectionable) the breath of cattle, hay, ground grain feed, etc.
I'll have to find some Limburger to try some time. I was a farmboy for part of my childhood, and took steers to the 4-H fair.
[quote=britannica.com]… for those cilantro-haters for whom the plant tastes like soap, the issue is genetic. These people have a variation in a group of olfactory-receptor genes that allows them to strongly perceive the soapy-flavored aldehydes in cilantro leaves. This genetic quirk is usually only found in a small percent of the population, though it varies geographically. Interestingly, places where cilantro is especially popular, such as Central America and India, have fewer people with these genes, which might explain how the herb was able to become such a mainstay in those regions. East Asians have the highest incidence of this variation, with some studies showing that nearly 20% of the population experiences soapy-tasting cilantro. There is some evidence that cilantrophobes can overcome their aversion with repeated exposure to the herb, especially if it is crushed rather than served whole, but many people simply choose to go with their genetic inclinations and avoid its soapiness altogether.[/quote]
I mustn’t have those genes, because I love the stuff. Kinza, coriander, cilantro, ki?ni?, whatever you’re calling it, I’m right there munching it.
In the "natural" wine world, wines, usually reds, that have "barnyardy" scents have been in vogue for about 10 years here, but I think the term and desire for it are finally on the out, thank Satan. But I do wonder about smell's powerful connection to memory. I too do not mind the smell of cow manure, but I don't want it in my wine.
My wife made that once. Everyone but me liked it, but I dreaded every bite. I had to eat at least half of it to be polite. That's testament to my devotion to my wife.
I often feel intimidated because I'm less well read than most
Your writing on religion is knowledgeable, respectful, humane. I find it much more convincing than my beating of drums. But then, we don't need to convince each other.
As for other philosophical issues, I am not nearly as well read as some people on the forum. The difference is that I'm right and they're wrong.
The poem is right that the best part of watermelon is the seeds. Now most kinds you buy are seedless. What's the point?
Yes, and watermelon rind pickle. Too sweet. Jars and jars of them sitting on high shelves in the mudroom on my grandfathers farm with the peaches and tomatoes.
I mustn’t have those genes, because I love the stuff. Kinza, coriander, cilantro, ki?ni?, whatever you’re calling it, I’m right there munching it.
Cilantro and parsley tastes like eating grass to me. I always wonder why people like it so much. I also don't like celery much, especially cooked. But many types of cooking consider it important for sauces and soups.
I really do like coriander seed though. Subtle and just a little sweet.
The difference is that I'm right and they're wrong.
The power of intuition, which we also agree on, despite me reading you the business about your stubbornness about your experience of Taoism in the past.
Coriander is cilantro. Parsley and cilantro (aka Chinese parsley) are in the same family -- Apiaceae. So... if you don't like one, it's quite likely you won't like the other either. Parsley doesn't have a lot going for it.
your stubbornness about your experience of Taoism in the past
Philosophy is full of dozens, hundreds, thousands of points of view, metaphysical. It's not stubborn to pick one you find useful and apply it to your life and understanding of reality. I've said pretty strongly that I recognize the value and potential value of other metaphysical understandings.
I often feel intimidated because I'm less well read than most
We don't have any data on everyone's reading habits to know whether you are less well read than other posters here. My guess is that people tend to post about topics they are familiar with. They may be well read in this or that topic and functionally illiterate in the topics about which they have nothing to say, Certainly true for me -- there are many gaps in my general-knowledge-derived-from-reading. Not that ignorance is necessarily a barrier.
We also don't have a lot of data on whom, when, and to what extent people are pretending to be knowledgeable (aka bullshitting) and when they actually know something. A confident BSer can sound very learned. You and I would never think of making up stuff (unless it it served the general cause of the true, the good, and the beautiful) but not everyone here has as much intellectual integrity as we do.
Humility is good, somebody said once, but you should not hide your very bright bicycle light under a bushel basket (if you can even find one of those).
We don't have any data on everyone's reading habits to know whether you are less well read than other posters here.
This is clearly wrong. As the member who started the discussion "You don't need to read philosophy to be a philosopher" I am clearly in the forefront, the vanguard of those who are not well-read in philosophy.
Philosophy is full of dozens, hundreds, thousands of points of view, metaphysical. It's not stubborn to pick one you find useful and apply it to your life and understanding of reality. I've said pretty strongly that I recognize the value and potential value of other metaphysical understandings.
I don't think you "picked" a metaphysical position, though; I don't think anyone has metaphysical volition. It's in you for whatever reason, and it makes you stubborn. We're all stubborn about ours, but some of us are happy to express our stubbornness and some of us shrink away and throw up a protective screen when questioned. Our response says nothing about our metaphysic, just about our psychological pathologies.
Anyways, all I was trying to say is that I agree with you on your emphasis on the value of intuition in philosophy.
Back to the foodbox: I made a super healthy green lentil stew. I feel very healthy, and the flavors are very earthy, but it's a little too healthy. I need some fun in my food life.
A confident BSer can sound very learned. You and I would never think of making up stuff (unless it it served the general cause of the true, the good, and the beautiful) but not everyone here has as much intellectual integrity as we do.
:halo:
I read philosophy threads based on tone rather than content, often. It helps in sussing out motives which retroactively informs philosophical questions in the context of the discussion.
I don't think you "picked" a metaphysical position, though; I don't think anyone has metaphysical volition. It's in you for whatever reason, and it makes you stubborn. We're all stubborn about ours, but some of us are happy to express our stubbornness and some of us shrink away and throw up a protective screen when questioned.
I think there's a lot to the idea of philosophical temperaments. (Been reading William James.)
You missed an option though, which I guess maybe is shame? One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time, writing on auto-pilot. I feel ashamed when I say things I've said before -- or really it's more like, when I say things because they are the sort of thing I say. Show me a comfort zone and I'll start looking for exits.
Ah. Goes like this: we all have some bias or style or temperament or whatever; you might not recognize that you do and deny it, act defensively, all that, redouble efforts to hide it from yourself and so on; or you might recognize it, recognize that everyone's in the same boat, and feel no shame in promoting your own perspective as yours; the third option is that you recognize your own tendencies and regret having them, either because of what they are, or just because they are biases.
One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time, writing on auto-pilot.
Were you to read everything in philosophy from Thales to the present, you would, I suspect, encounter famous philosophers repeating the same old shit again and again.
the third option is that you recognize your own tendencies and regret having them, either because of what they are, or just because they are biases.
Ok, I see this is what I missed. Maybe I'm too young to get here. It sounds depressing, and I say that as a depressed person. I'd like to imagine a world in which this doesn't have to be the case. I'm still living in your second world, except I don't feel a freedom to express my perspective as mine. Rather, I feel a need to emphasize how biased we all are, myself included, and that this realization is a beginning point, not an ending point.
Reply to Noble Dust Too healthy? Were you using what are called "French lentils"? They are brighter green than the mud colored ones. Personally, I like the red lentils which cook down into an orange colored sauce. I haven't seen any guides for spoiling the healthful aspects of lentils, Add lard? 2 parts bacon to 1 part lentils? Serve it as a side with nicely marbled beef?
You could leave it out on the counter for a week, then eat it. That should be quite unhealthy -- possibly fatal.
Sure. No less a personage than Ezra Pound once said
The original thoughts man is capable of could be written on the back of a postage stamp.
I don't feel bad either reinventing the wheel or repeating another's thoughts. Honestly I don't feel bad repeating my own so long as I'm actually thinking them. (And I've enjoyed a couple times on this forum coming up with an idea only to realize I had come up with the same idea before, years earlier.) What I really object to is me not thinking, but still talking. It's all the more tempting when you've developed a stock of ideas to fall back on.
[quote=Wittgenstein, somewhere in Culture and Value]When a crack begins to form in the organic unity of the work of art, the artist stuffs it with straw, but to quiet his conscience, he uses only the best straw.[/quote]
One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time,
An interesting idea would be to re-read your old posts over the years here and see if you've changed your position anywhere.
If not, then see if you've changed anyone else's position.
If not, come up with a reason why you haven't just wasted your time here.
One good rationalization would be like if you played golf your whole life, never reduced your score and never helped anyone reduce their score, you could say you just like being outside away from other things and so it hasn't been a waste.
Lard is actually one of the healthiest fats, whatever your midwestern upbringing might tell you. It took me years to break the bondage.
I just bought generic lentils that looked greenish. They're my least favorite but I was trying to be healthy. Second are the reds you like; red lentil soup from a good Middle Eastern spot is so great. My number one are black lentils; they're small and retain their shape, and the flavor is a bit more nuanced, and they work better with different dishes.
An interesting idea would be to re-read your old posts over the years here and see if you've changed your position anywhere.
I would say right off this has happened regularly, but it might be more accurate to say that my ideal is not having positions, and now and then I manage that, though not as often as I'd like, so then there's nothing to change.
I have an extreme allergy to people saying things like "Well, I'm an idealist, so ..." Fuck that. I fundamentally do not understand people who are here to inform others what their position is. Why would anyone care?
Cook Wilson, I guess in a kind of Socratic mood, thought philosophers shouldn't publish at all, because then you have to deal with what you've published, and you'll probably end up defending it, and now you're an orthodoxy of one.
If not, then see if you've changed anyone else's position.
Except for a few successes explaining technical stuff to people, I do not think this has ever happened. Maybe. But my two principal modes are: (1) trying to convince people not to think something -- usually just because logic says "no" -- rather than persuade them to think something I do; (2) exploration. I've posted a lot of theories over the years that I was making up on the fly, with revisions every few posts, so there's no position to bring people over to.
When I find myself doing something else, like trying to convince people to think as I do -- with an exception for technical stuff, though that gets boring -- I am unhappy.
The TL;DR is that "positions" are anathema to philosophy, as I conceive it.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me.
I don't think you "picked" a metaphysical position,
I have many metaphysical positions. I'm always a pragmatist - whatever works is the right way to go. When I do science, I am a materialist. When I do epistemology, I'm a Taoist - I believe self-awareness, introspection, intuition is the source of knowledge.
I'll say it again - I don't see myself as stubborn at all, but I do stand up for my ideas. One of my mottos - If you're not willing to stand up for your ideas, you might as well not have them at all.
One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time, writing on auto-pilot.
I find myself holding back on issues I care most about - metaphysics, epistemology, Taoism - for just that reason. I get tired of saying the same things over and over. Recently I've found myself waiting around for discussions on different subjects I think I can contribute to. One thing I've noticed is that I have been deleting drafts of half-finished posts - tired of my own opinions.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me.
I've said before, for me, philosophy is about becoming more aware of how I think. How my mind works. How I know things. I don't fee like I have to convince anyone of anything. Philosophy is a test - do my ideas hold up to examination by people other than myself.
The TL;DR is that "positions" are anathema to philosophy, as I conceive it.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me.
It used to be commonly said by serious chess players and trainers that you need to take a break from the game sometimes and wait until "chess hunger" occurs, which I saw glossed once as "the need to be creative at the chessboard." I remember finding that if I took some time off, bad habits would fall away and I'd come back a better player despite not having played in a tournament in months.
I don't know if I come back to the forum better after my little breaks. But I do usually get the itch to do philosophy just like I used to get the itch to play chess again.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me. — Srap Tasmaner
I'm listening. So why keep posting?
I'm confused. Do you mean, what else is there? What could I possibly be doing besides choosing and defending a position? -- Or do you mean something else?
I think there's a lot to the idea of philosophical temperaments. (Been reading William James.)
You missed an option though, which I guess maybe is shame? One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time, writing on auto-pilot.
I relate entirely to this - except the shame part. From the age of 40 on I found myself repeating myself on any number of subjects. At a certain point many of us have built a worldview, along with certain patterns in thinking which go around and around in a groove. My range shrinks and expands here and there, with new information and some effort.
I agree about philosophical temperaments. My disposition has resulted in my not having privileged philosophy and I came here mainly to see what I had missed out on. A combination of ageing and boredom, perhaps. For the most part, I am very interested in what others believe in and why. I don't have the temperament, attention span or motivation to get fully into complex thinkers or technical questions, but I am interested in what people have to say about them. Being here has improved my thinking.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me.
Philosophy is still largely made up of opposing positions, though. My thoughts are structured in patterns. I have to have a pattern (when I was a child I called it the skeleton) in order to think at all. Philosophy is an exploration of thought patterns. What skrews it up is emotion. Emotion anchors you to one point of view, so you don't realize that all positions are actually the same: they all have strengths and weaknesses. So a person will think: if I just expose the other side's weakness, I won!
Much of what he says resonates with me. So much so that sometimes I just want to concede I'm a product of my environment. As in, really? I think my lifetime exploration for answers happened to land me with an American pragmatist. As if that was unexpected.
I remember years ago hearing a theory that competition plays less of a role in market economies than people think. When it comes to commodities of comparable quality, firms do indeed compete on price, just like in Econ 101, but that's actually a special case. More common is McDonald's and Burger King, and there consumers simply prefer one or the other, given that the prices are comparable. To claim they "compete" on taste is an empty abstraction -- it's not like McDonald's can beat out Burger King by offering "more" taste for the same price; what they offer is simply different. Different, not more or less, and only better or worse to individuals with their fixed preferences, not better or worse in some absolute sense.
And so it is with a lot of things, and quite possibly with philosophy. As you say, every position or school or approach has its strengths and weaknesses; if those aren't really comparable, we can make them comparable, being experts at the empty abstraction, and in that sense, indeed, philosophy is "made up of opposing positions" because the opposition is something we make up.
Which is not all wrong, of course. If you can show where two quite different sorts of theories, let's say, with very different background assumptions and so on, actually differ on some specific prediction, black and white, you've brought them into dialogue where they might have continued talking past each other. We do a lot of that.
But it's never as effective at changing minds as people think it will be, because the allegiance -- the emotional attachment, as you note -- is not to that specific prediction, a mere detail, but to the picture of the world it emanates from. People will always find a way to manage the ramifications of their worldview, so long as they get to keep the core intact.
And I suppose I think people are often unaware of the source of that rigidity in their thinking. That core commitment might be to a sort of picture, as Wittgenstein says, or to a myth, as Sellars says, or it might be a matter of temperament, as James says.
The stuff I was posting last night suggests I expect myself not to have any such core commitments, but that's probably not quite right, not even as an ideal. But a lot of philosophy is probably like a bad fight in a marriage: what the words say you're arguing about is not what you're really arguing about. I'm interested in sussing out those real differences.
I feel like I should apologize now for talking philosophy in the shoutbox! (I don't spend a lot of time here and am unused to your strange ways.)
I remember years ago hearing a theory that competition plays less of a role in market economies than people think. When it comes to commodities of comparable quality, firms do indeed compete on price, just like in Econ 101, but that's actually a special case. More common is McDonald's and Burger King, and there consumers simply prefer one or the other, given that the prices are comparable. To claim they "compete" on taste is an empty abstraction -- it's not like McDonald's can beat out Burger King by offering "more" taste for the same price; what they offer is simply different. Different, not more or less, and only better or worse to individuals with their fixed preferences, not better or worse in some absolute sense.
There's a lot of variability there because it depends on the product and the culture. Apple, for instance, makes high quality products, but it's partly a matter of the culture of the company and a market that responded favorably to their vision. In an alternate universe all cell phones are shabby because every company is aiming for the bottom of the barrel to lower their prices.
And so it is with a lot of things, and quite possibly with philosophy. As you say, every position or school or approach has its strengths and weaknesses; if those aren't really comparable, we can make them comparable, being experts at the empty abstraction, and in that sense, indeed, philosophy is "made up of opposing positions" because the opposition is something we make up.
I think it goes deeper, though. The very existence of a philosophical position depends on contrast. If I'm a materialist, that only makes sense relative to an idealist position. In the moment I've won the day and proven materialism, I'm still not free of idealism because I need to give my own position meaning. I can defeat my opponent, but I have to send him to Belarus because I still need him.
The stuff I was posting last night suggests I expect myself not to have any such core commitments, but that's probably not quite right, not even as an ideal.
Your commitments are part of who you are. My own philosophical flexibility is related to having a weak sense of identity, which doesn't mean I'm wishy washy. I can very forcefully be anybody I decide to be, but my homebase is ambiguous. As you say, it's not an ideal. It's just the way I am. If everybody was like me, there wouldn't be any philosophy because everybody would just smile and approve of any position anybody presented.
Yes. Thinking is what I do. It was what I did for a living and it's what I do now for recreation. What could be more fun? I guess that's it, I need to take a break when it's not fun anymore. Which is sort of like what you were saying.
At a certain point many of us have built a worldview, along with certain patterns in thinking which go around and around in a groove.
I'd prefer to think of it as having built a worldview and then tested it out on the field of philosophical battle. When I was an engineer, at one or more times during a project, I would sit down with other engineers, some working on the project and some not. I would lay out my thoughts and plans and then let them do their best to hack them to pieces. It was all collegial and a lot of fun. It saved my butt many times by keeping me from moving ahead with a plan that wouldn't work.
But it's never as effective at changing minds as people think it will be, because the allegiance -- the emotional attachment, as you note -- is not to that specific prediction, a mere detail, but to the picture of the world it emanates from. People will always find a way to manage the ramifications of their worldview, so long as they get to keep the core intact.
I've found this to be true. But every once in a while I will be surprised to find that I've convinced someone or even that someone has convinced me. Either is an exhilarating experience.
The very existence of a philosophical position depends on contrast.
Well, as I said, we work pretty hard to get opposing theories to make claims or predictions that compete directly, but that doesn't make those yes-no questions constitutive of the deep difference between two camps.
If I'm a materialist, that only makes sense relative to an idealist position.
I'm not sure these are real things. There are people you can get to say "There's nothing in the universe that isn't physical" and other people you can get to say "There is!" But I'm doubtful this is where anyone starts out from. At bottom is some sort of intuition about how things are, and that means eventually you might say one of those things or the other, but that intuition itself might not stand in contrast to anything else, oppose itself to anything, since those fundamental intuitions are sort of complete in themselves. Which doesn't necessarily mean totalizing, but self-sustaining, sui generis. (The feeling that people always have it in for you, for example, is not a total theory of the universe, and it also needn't have emerged as the winner of any competition with alternative theories.)
I suppose I'm saying that those points of disagreement we focus on so much are just clues, or that finding such points of disagreement is like finding the entrance to a cave, and it might be a long way down to find what's hidden in there. Things like "materialism" and "idealism" are flimsy curtains someone's hung over the mouth of the cave.
I'm not sure these are real things. There are people you can get to say "There's nothing in the universe that isn't physical" and other people you can get to say "There is!" But I'm doubtful this is where anyone starts out from. At bottom is some sort of intuition about how things are, and that means eventually you might say one of those things or the other, but that intuition itself might not stand in contrast to anything else, oppose itself to anything, since those fundamental intuitions are sort of complete in themselves.
What you are describing is metaphysics - the intuition that sits as the foundation of everything you believe. Don't get me started.
I'm confused. Do you mean, what else is there? What could I possibly be doing besides choosing and defending a position? -- Or do you mean something else?
You said choosing a position and arguing it is boring, so I was just wondering if there's an alternative that keeps you posting.
I'm just saying I don't think we consciously "choose" philosophical positions. When I was 14 I thought I felt a "spiritual conviction" to "give my life to Christ", so I consciously chose to do that, and thought it meant something. About 10 years later I found this belief to have decomposed to the point that it didn't exist anymore. My conversion experience as a teen was a conscious choice, but the beliefs were already in place and had been since I could form thoughts about life. Then over time that belief system disintegrated and morphed into the bizarre patchwork of non-religious beliefs I have now. None of this is a conscious choice, and I was under an illusion when I thought I chose to be a Christian. I didn't in the same way I don't choose to not be one now.
wondering if there's an alternative that keeps you posting
Not always.
I suppose in a way I approach my own thoughts the same as I approach the thoughts of others, curious about what's really behind them. So it's a case of "How do I know what I mean until I see what I say?" I often discover what I'm thinking sometime after I've started talking, which is interesting. And not much like knowing exactly what you think already and then just announcing it and explaining it to anyone who'll listen.
In a way, a thought I don't understand is a puzzle to be solved, but I don't have infinite time or patience, so I must be content to leave some such puzzles unsolved. I can hope that in trying to solve such a puzzle I can at least learn something about what I think and why, so when even that's not happening, I decide it's time to shut up.
About 10 years later I found this belief to have decomposed to the point that it didn't exist anymore.
That could be expanded into a book-length discussion. I have also experienced decomposing belief -- just more extended in time than your experience. That was Christianity that rotted. I find other beliefs are rotting out from under my convictions, particularly those of left-politics. Rot, rotting, rotted unto undifferentiated humus. (note: humus and hummus are two different things.)
I'm NOT becoming a right winger -- god forbid -- lest anyone think that.
Things like "materialism" and "idealism" are flimsy curtains someone's hung over the mouth of the cave.
Knowledge is the stabilisation of contradictions, not their resolution. The point is not to pull back the curtains but to discover the larger world that such a dichotomy is seeking to frame.
Are we talking "red" or "wild cherry"? Consider buying it. The 2023 2dr Coupe 3LT Camaro has low redneck and white trash quotients. The price cited on line is $40,000, depending, which rednecks can afford, but not white trash (at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which closely monitors redneck and white trash spending).
You should really go for an up market black ZL1 Car which has a list price of over $72,000. A lawyer should appear very prosperous to attract more business, and it has redneck / white trash quotients of 0.
Bird flexibility is probably a result of the bigger brain.
A bigger (and heavier) brain isn't so adaptive for flying species. Somewhere along the line birds evolved brains with high density of neurons, so as to get more information processing in a small package. Also, a small brain means neural signals have less far to travel, in getting from one part of the brain to another. (Part of why flies can be so good at evading humans.)
A bigger (and heavier) brain isn't so adaptive for flying species. Somewhere along the line birds evolved brains with high density of neurons, so as to get more information processing in a small package. Also, a small brain means neural signals have less far to travel, in getting from one part of the brain to another. (Part of why flies can be so good at evading humans.)
Are you speculating this, or are you some kind of specialist?
Are you speculating this, or are you some kind of specialist?
Not a specialist in any kind of career or credentials sense, but I've been studying aspects of how brains work with a background in electrical engineering for a long time now, and I have taken some relevant undergrad psychology courses.
Birds survived where other dinosaurs died out because:
1. They have bigger brains
2. They have a more varied diet.
3. They can fly.
4. All of the above
Your whole question is contradicted by the fact that not all birds survived, like the pterodactyl, so the statement "birds survived where other dinosaurs died out" is false. You're a dodo for making this mistake.
My guess is that non-avian dinosaurs lived in all the habitats that the birds lived in, unless you count the sky as a habitat.
Reply to T Clark Modern birds didn't descend from pterosaurs--flying lizards; birds' ancestors were small, feathered, terrestrial dinosaurs. Birds' ancestors were small theropods, a group which includes T Rex. Those chirping little wrens? They are dinosaurs.
Birds's ancestors were meat eaters; they still had teeth. Their diet probably had something to do with their survival. Plus, they were small and warm blooded.
The thing that I find remarkable is that dinosaurs did not disappear over a few days' time after the meteorite smashed into earth, creating the Chicxulub crater. The current estimate is 33,000 years after Chicxulub meteorite.
Your whole question is contradicted by the fact that not all birds survived, like the pterodactyl, so the statement "birds survived where other dinosaurs died out" is false. You're a dodo for making this mistake.
Most people don't realize that I'm actually the funniest poster here. While Hanover is prancing around yelling profanities and making embarrasing faces to try to get a chuckle I quietly supply a steady stream of subtle jokes that go uncelebrated.
While Hanover is prancing around yelling profanities and making embarrasing faces to try to get a chuckle I quietly supply a steady stream of subtle jokes that go uncelebrated.
No question you're subtle, sophisticated, and highbrow. It's not lost on me.
Reply to Jamal One of my favorite jokes of all time was when my brother broke the news he was getting a divorce, I asked him for his wife's number, followed by a "too soon?"
Jesus holy fucking Christ. That saying is known by everyone. White is all over rice, so the saying means a lot. A lot. Think of it that way. Like saying "moth to a flame."
I recently read a book in which at least one of the male characters had orchitis, aka swollen baws.
Sounds like a good book. I got diagnosed with encephalitis so I had the missus nut me over and over thinking that would help, but now I get why my head bout sloded out my ears despite the rivers of spooge.
Reply to Noble Dust Maybe you're from stupidville (the mythical place where things are all stupid, every damn last one of them), but saying I'll be on you like white on rice or stink on shit or ugly on an ape is just a normal way to talk. This is a you problem, not a me problem.
as well as my rants as well as the giant size of my brain.
It's 'hydrocephalus' that causes the brain to swell up -- but only if you're a baby. When an adult's brain
swells up, you just drop dead. (The ancient Egyptian treatment for a swelling brain was 'trepanning' where they'd drill a hole in your head to relieve the pressure. Amazingly, it worked and people survived and the hole healed -- sometimes, anyway. Trepanning is still used. They were always drilling holes in people's heads on Gray's Anatomy.
(My best friend growing up used to say that when we would argue. I think it started me on the downward spiral of philosophy, as I recognized even as a kid what a vapid comeback it was. He still won every argument though.)
It's American week at Lidl Denia. I was so excited that I took some photos:
Metaphysician UndercoverJune 28, 2023 at 10:53#8185210 likes
Reply to Jamal
Are those Buffalo Wings? I can't see the ingredients, but they look all puffy with batter. What kind of wing is that, with batter? I heard that when wings became popular in the US, twenty years ago or whatever, it quickly became the most expensive part of the chicken to buy.
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover I just googled to discover that buffalo wings are chicken wings from the city of Buffalo and not the actual wings of buffalos, which are much bigger (even though buffalos are mostly flightless).
I heard that when wings became popular in the US, twenty years ago or whatever, it quickly became the most expensive part of the chicken to buy.
No, the breasts are the most expensive. There was an issue with wings back during Covid times when prices spiked. I can't remember why. Very tough times though limiting my wing intake.
Eggs got really expensive too recently, but they're coming back down. I'm immune to that problem because I have chickens.
I'm a big fan of the chicken thigh. I don't think it gets its due.
Reply to frank And the eyebrow gives him a nefarious villain vibe.
Reply to Hanover I might have been commiting trademark infringement if I had used the joke to sell buffalo wings, but anyway, I surmise that the joke was around before Buffalo's Wild Wings's logo and that it isn't covered by the trademark anyway.
Reply to Hanover They weren't in the freezer, which means they were fresh, or maybe rather "fresh", if you know what I mean.
The shocking thing is the Germans' incompetence and obvious low quality of their American-style branding and products. Lidl's special edition stuff is usually good, but with the American stuff, it's like they don't even care. For one thing, the proper spelling of Mcennedy is surely McKennedy.
might have been commiting trademark infringement if I had used the joke to sell buffalo wings, but anyway, I surmise that the joke was around before Buffalo's Wild Wings's logo and that it isn't covered by the trademark anyway.
Tell it to the judge.
I went to Lidl's for the first time and thought its selections limited. The scallops were 2 pounds for $10, which is just over $4.99 per pound (I'm guessing as I don't have a calculator handy), which is too cheap to be trusted. I bought them anyway, as I too am too cheap to be trusted. They tasted fine, but still. But still means something vague hangs out there that is sketchy. I will not be back. Mark my words. I will not be back.
Reply to Hanover I don't get my scallops at Lidl—I dive for them—and I didn't know there were Lidls in the USA. Unless you went to Lidl during one of your rare trips to Europe. Maybe that's what you did in Oban.
So let me get this straight. You went to Oban, on the coast and famous for its fresh seafood, including scallops, and you bought a bag of frozen ones from a budget supermarket?
I'm a big fan of the chicken thigh. I don't think it gets its due.
I should raise your taste score because I agree with you about this. When I don't cook a whole chicken I normally cook whole legs, which include the thigh. Roasted for 40 minutes, high heat.
Reply to Jamal They have Lidl's in the US, but I only shop at the one in Oban. I do that because their frozen scallops are fresher. I eat them with Irish whiskey that is freshly imported daily. Nothing better than day old Irish whiskey in Scotland with a frozen scallop.
What I like about Ireland is they say County Cork and not Cork County like they would say in US. Those folks are fun that way.
Is the capital of Cork County USA not called Jeopardy?
I heard that there are a lot of jobs in Jeopardy in America!
I don't think edible animal body parts should be called the same as human ones!
Makes me wanna turn veggie!
What about reheating homemade pancakes in the toaster?
Not recommended, but also not sacrilegious. You do get points for not being wasteful. I've been known to roll leftover room temperature pancakes around leftover room temperature sausage links, dip them in syrup, and eat them.
Here's an important question. I assume these are all available in most parts of the world, so I assume it's not specifically an American thing. Bacon, sausage links or sausage patties? With breakfast.
Bacon, sausage links or sausage patties? With breakfast.
If we can call a slice of Lorne sausage a “patty” (a word that is never used in the UK and sounds embarrassing and ridiculous), then a full Scottish breakfast has all three, plus black pudding (blood sausage) and haggis.
I only knew scrapple as a Pennsylvania Dutch thing, but google now shows me that it's eaten in other states as well. Strange.
Ham with breakfast is unnecessary to me except, ironically, when used in my favorite breakfast dish: Eggs Benedict. I know I've sang it's praises before.
Reply to T Clark For supper (last night) I made latkes, sautéed mushrooms (cremini), and carrot and rutabaga boil.
Scrapple sounds like something that would be made on a German farm when they butchered ein Schwein in the fall. Else, why would they have all these odd parts which pigs don't readily give up, one by one?
This morning, I wrestled the pregnant sow to the ground and reached into her womb until I fished out the most succulent piglet, her eyes not yet opened, but instinctively searching for a teat, all the while screaming at this sudden awakening, then cast in the boiling oil until silenced to a crisp.
Once cooled sufficiently, I doused her in duck sauce and slivered her finely onto croissants and washed her down with pints of steaming hot espresso.
Not sure what I'll enjoy for brekky tomorrow. Today will be hard to outdo.
I’m a bacon man myself but you are right that breakfast sausage works better on its own as a side. I’m not sure I know anyone who orders patties. Seems inappropriate or something.
I used internet magic to find your address, then I zoomed in all the way on google maps and read Fred's phone number you wrote on that napkin on the kitchen table. Then I texted him and asked what your nickname was.
Metaphysician UndercoverJune 29, 2023 at 00:03#8186670 likes
What's with "scrapple"? We have all these different beautiful sausages with beautiful different names, and then there's the ugly, "scrapple". Is it the scrap of the sausage? But isn't sausage already made from scrap? So what's scrapple, the scrap of the scrap?
I grew up in Delaware, where scrapple is popular. It's made from a lot of the left over pork and ham trimmings. They're ground up fine and mixed with cornmeal and are usually spiced with a lot of black pepper. Once it's prepared, it's put in molds or pans and comes out in a loaf. The loaf is cut into slices which are then fried. My father always liked it sliced really thin and fried crisp. I like it sliced thicker - up to 1/4 inch - then fried till the surface is crisp but the insides are still moist. The cornmeal gives it a texture a bit like polenta and it tends to be very peppery.
It's really different from other breakfast meats. You should try it if you get a chance. Although it is a Pennsylvania/Delaware product normally, I've seen it in stores elsewhere.
Reply to T Clark I've never heard of this before searching to see if there were a Southern equivalent to scrapple. I have now learned there is a North Carolina delicacy that goes by the name of livermush that is similar to scrapple, although they add a bit of pig head meat and liver to the mix.
I take comfort in knowing things never got so desperate in Georgia that we had to endure livermush, but should one day you visit, I'll boil up a pig head for you and make you a livermush sandwich to remind you of home, not to crisp, not to mushy, but just right.
Scrapple sounds like hardscrabble, as in that's the sort of lives such eaters of that would live. I'll assume the words are related like incestuous cousins.
It's really different from other breakfast meats. You should try it if you get a chance. Although it is a Pennsylvania/Delaware product normally, I've seen it in stores elsewhere.
I've actually had scrapple on a number of occasions, not bad as a garbage meat. I guess it's kind of like baloney with some corn filler. I think the big difference is that baloney is in a big roll, and scrapple is small, so fried baloney makes a delectable main course, the Newfoundland Steak, whereas fried scrapple only serves as a side, usually for breakfast.
a North Carolina delicacy that goes by the name of livermush
I hadn't heard of it, so I looked on the web. Apparently it's a type of scrapple that contains more pig liver than the kind from further north typically has. It was brought down by Germans from the mid-Atlantic. My son's girlfriend grew up in western Virginia in a Mennonite community. I'll ask her if they had it there.
I would certainly try it if I had a chance. You should check your local gourmet store. I'm sure they have an artisanal brand. Extra virgin liver mush.
I am deeply offended that the Sleeping Beauty Problem is still active after almost 500 posts. People solved it back on the third page and they're still making the same arguments 13 pages later.
There's this puppeteer within you making you dance across the stage and you don't know why you're dancing as you are, but now you do because I just told you, so locate him and figure out why he's making you do that, and then decide if that's what you want to do.
How else can you be true to yourself and not the puppeteer?
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life and you will call it fate.” Carl Jung.
"This above all: to thine own self be true." Shakespeare.
When you meet the puppeteer and take the marionette strings from him, realize he was already you all along.
Reply to Hanover
He's just been trying to protect me, so I'm loved and accepted, so the cops don't profile me, so I'm safe and sound in the bosom of respectability.
If I was miserable, he kept me alive until I was powerful enough to take the strings for myself and make my world into something I love.
Reply to frank If you are conscious of him and respect him as your guardian angel, then you have brought him to light and understand it's you and not fate blazing your trail.
If you are conscious of him and respect him as your guardian angel, then you have brought him to light and understand it's you and not fate blazing your trail.
What do you think the overarching effects of this decision will be? Short or long term.
I think many universities are committed to diversity initiatives, so they'll have to arrive at processes that result in diverse outcomes but that don't directly discriminate on race.
For example, if SAT scores and AP (advanced placement) grades and scores disproportionately favor certain races and disfavor others, they will have to be replaced with more subjective methods (work or volunteer experience, recommendation letters, etc.).
If those alternative selection methods effectively select top candidates, then the problem is solved. If not, and the student level drops, those universities that use them will damage their brand and have to decide what to do.
I also think many universities will not adjust their application process, particularly public universities in conservative states, and they'll just let the chips fall where they may.
What is abundantly clear from the current data is that a strict GPA/ACT or SAT selection method without affirmative action rules will result in greatly reduced numbers of certain minorities into universities and that without some other method being decided, those historically discriminated groups will be most negatively affected.
Was at Howard's funeral today -- he was 96. Among his many interests was Heart of the Beast Puppet Theater in Minneapolis. Just before the recessional, this very large bird puppet appeared and followed the cross down the center aisle. Fortunately, we had been alerted in the eulogy that a puppet would appear. Otherwise it would have been pretty surprising.
What kind of bird? Perhaps the Holy Spirit [s]disguised as a[/s] is a squirrel eating sea gull? I mean, the dove is kind of wimpy bird.
Reply to BC
Just for the sake of authenticity, did the bird emulation, leave any deposits on the floor, as it followed the cross down the center aisle?
Is it better to talk a lot on a date, or just listen?
Depends on the person. If the other person is talking a lot and you think they're the sort that would do better dating quietly, it's best to set the boundaries for later in the relationship by telling them. "I think you would do be better shutting up more. "
Somebody better do some talking! Two people waiting for the other one to say something makes for a dull evening,
What about two people resisting the urge to talk for the entire first date? Letting the social ''awkwardness'' just build and build without giving in to it? Then on the second date, allowing themselves only one sentence each and having to wait for the precise right moment to deploy it. Etc.
Reply to universeness I like that idea, but maybe do the opposite where it's so bright, the glare gives you an amazing migraine, but not just a pounding headache, but visual distortions, lip numbness, and difficulty finding words, followed by vomiting and disabling fatigue.
Reply to frank I've not seen a stork in the US; I did see one something like this one in Uganda. Kind of homely.
Heart of the Beast puppets tend to be more stork-like than gullible, but I didn't have a link to a stork eating a squirrel or delivering a baby.
Some of the puppets are very large and are managed by several people, like this one from the May Day Festival of years past, on the pond in Powderhorn Park. Spring conquered Winter. It was a very popular event, but a lot of work to produce. After 30 +/- years of doing it they had to focus on other things.
I like that idea, but maybe do the opposite where it's so bright, the glare gives you an amazing migraine, but not just a pounding headache, but visual distortions, lip numbness, and difficulty finding words, followed by vomiting and disabling fatigue.
Sounds like a typical Saturday night out, ending at 3am in a Glesga night club!
Put in your calendars that we'll be having another Kool Aid and Kommunion Kracker party this July 4th at midnight. Meet me down at the underground Worldly Pleasure Hall 15 minutes early. Han-ver's Helpers are to be wearing their Helper Garments and should bring their magic shillelaghs (<1" girth PLEASE).
If you bring a friend, you'll be rewarded with extra bread at breakfast and get 7 Godlly Keys, increasing your chances of opening the Heavenly Border Wall and living forever in peace in the lap of Han-ver.
Note: the dash is used so as not to spell the name of the Holy.
Reply to universeness The video isn't available, so I can't see it, but I'll assume it's someone you worship for their atheistic gospel because you're a one trick pony.
Reply to Hanover
Typical theist, scared that everyone is trying to shoot that thing at them and they are incapable of logical addition and are too ugly to kiss. Keep It Simple Stupid!
Typical theist, scared that everyone is trying to shoot that thing at them and they are incapable of logical addition and are too ugly to kiss. Keep It Simple Stupid!
Either that, or I just like this line:
"Share a smoke, make a joke
Grasp and reach for a leg of hope
Words to memorize, words hypnotize
Words make my mouth exercise
Words all failed the magic prize
Nothing I can say when I'm in your thighs"
Reply to wonderer1
Probably, but as a mere atheist, how can I (would it be healthy to,) know the ineffable mind of han-ver the magician?
Would you buy his lil ol bottles of Dr G o [s]o[/s ] d!
Reply to wonderer1
That's what evanhellicals call god's money, before they deposit it in their personal bank accounts and spend it on ........, and ........, and booze!
Thinking about that Camaro has Hanover's intuition telling him that real men drive pickup trucks, thus the Freudian slip.
So I got a Camero as a rental car on my recent trip, and I liked the look, but it had really bad blind spots and the interior was cramped, the console with very little space.
The long hood and low air dams made it very conducive to running into parking lot barriers, but so far, the rental place hasn't found the dent.
I'm going to opt out, maybe looking at a Mustang. Still nice and rednecky, and it too comes in a manual.
If that's not good, maybe a mini-van with a racing stripe
Must I recite to you the tale of Abraham, Isaac, and most importantly Jacob, who wrestled with the angel and had his name changed to Israel, giving birth to the 12 sons who each got their lots (the Levites a bit differently though), but the largest being Judah, from which the name Jew derives.
Must I recite to you the tale of Abraham, Isaac, and most importantly Jacob, who wrestled with the angel and had his name changed to Israel, giving birth to the 12 sons who each got their lots (the Levites a bit differently though), but the largest being Judah, from which the name Jew derives.
My ancient ancestors putzed around in the Israelish region starting back some I don't know maybe 2500 to 3000 years ago. They weren't called Jews yet and the religion started and evolved, and then kapow!, they became Jews, moved to the ATL, got goats in the burbs, and what else do you need to know?
The Abraham story was better. He banged Hagar and Sarah the wife cast out her baby Ishmael and his Arab descendants have been pissed off beyond repair since.
Reply to Hanover@Frank Jewish from Malden, MA. He recorded a number of albums but he was a one-hit wonder. Nothing wrong with that. Apparently he was inspired by a gospel singer, Porter Wagoner. Wagoner does gospel music. it all sung in the same drag-ass manner. Not nearly as good as Spirit in the Sky,
Reply to frank Great car color, especially if you have the polygons added. It will stand out in the parking lot. Mud cracks for the ages. The mud cracks below are 450 million years old.
Look up 'Laibach, jesus christ superstar,' on youtube.
In Oliver Sacks' "The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat," he describes in one account a likable enough man who has a short term memory that lasts but a few minutes, so he continually goes through the same introduction and pleasantries every few minutes and the guy has no idea of the repeating pattern.
Why are you asking me to answer any question about the literal accuracy of Christian Bible? Again, I'm neither a literalist nor a Christian.
Wagoner does gospel music. it all sung in the same drag-ass manner. Not nearly as good as Spirit in the Sky,
Wagoner is very classic, old school, sit on the front porch, listen to the buzzing and crackling AM radio gospel music of a bygone era. It's like listening to yesterday, so I like that part of it.
Spirit in the Sky is that catch you off guard "Shit, am I singing along to cranked up Jesus music?" Like, who am I?
I remind myself when i listen to it, it's not from a believer in the particular lyrics, but from someone who has captured an essence of what a genre can be at its best.
Reply to Hanover "Never been a sinner, I never sinned" is non-christian, since Christianity has the certainty of sin baked in. That's one of its defects. On the other hand, Greenbaum's lyrics display the certainty of salvation that the old-time gospel songs have.
There is "something" about the whole late 40s, 50s A.M. radio milieu. I didn't hear much gospel music back then, but the Grand ole Opry (started in 1925) was still on a.m. radio, and on Sunday morning there was a CBS show, the "Renfrro Valley Gathering" which, btw, is still running -- somewhere. I haven't heard it in decades; it was too corny. "Music and the Spoken Word" from the Mormons in Salt Lake (started in 1929) is also still on, probably on CBS. That was very high brow compared to Renfro's low low low brow salvation show.
I didn't like country music much when I was a kid (my folks didn't like it) but I do now as an occasional listening session. I like the plaintive quality, and some of the themes. Some people hate country music because a lot of the singers reach too many notes by coming close, then sliding onto them, or like Earnest Tubbs, sliding off. It's style, not incompetence (the generous interpretation).
Why are you asking me to answer any question about the literal accuracy of Christian Bible? Again, I'm neither a literalist nor a Christian.
Are you, as a theist, only capable of answering or thinking within your own small, stifling borders of your own notions of theism? can you not comment on theisms wider and bigger picture?
In jesus christ superstar, the questions in the song are quite reasonable and as you have declared yourself a god called han-ver, I thought that you might now be able to answer them. Like all god posits and promises you as the god han-ver are yet another fake, and another disappointment to the human species. I would stick to being hanover, you can probably handle the remit.
If you wish to admit to being unable to contrast and compare your own theism with general theism and how it manifests in other people and groups, and how those manifestations or atheism, might challenge your own positions on theism, then fair enough, do so, and your narrow, shallow, isolationist theistic position will be better revealed and understood.
Are you, as a theist, only capable of answering or thinking within your own small, stifling borders of your own notions of theism? can you not comment on theisms wider and bigger picture?
Can I not defend a position not my own that I disagree with? I guess I could, but so can you. So, now that you've explained your rules, tell me why a belief in Jesus is something near and dear to your heart.
In jesus christ superstar, the questions in the song are quite reasonable and as you have declared yourself a god called han-ver, I thought that you might now be able to answer them.
You do realize how stupid this is? You are arguing that I truly believe myself a god, that a Broadway musical score has defeated Christianity, and that as a Jew, I should be able to defend the legitimacy of Christian fundamentalism.
If you wish to admit to being unable to contrast and compare your own theism with general theism and how it manifests in other people and groups, and how those manifestations or atheism, might challenge your own positions on theism, then fair enough, do so, and your narrow, shallow, isolationist theistic position will be better revealed and understood.
And it just got stupider. I need to respond to your questions about a Messiah I don't believe in so I'll better understand what I do believe in?
If you want to know why people accept Jesus, you'll need to ask them, not me.
Can I not defend a position not my own that I disagree with? I guess I could, but so can you. So, now that you've explained your rules, tell me why a belief in Jesus is something near and dear to your heart.
It's near and dear to my heart because imo, it's the biggest con job in history and it's pernicious affects are still being felt today. You yourself, as a theist are not convinced that the historical Christ existed. So, I wonder if your personal theism might also be based on very dodgy/flimsy logic and evidence and you might be able to challenge it more, in your own thoughts.
You do realize how stupid this is? You are arguing that I truly believe myself a god, that a Broadway musical score has defeated Christianity, and that as a Jew, I should be able to defend the legitimacy of Christian fundamentalism.
No, I am just playing along with your joke and projecting its fantasy play on its implied presuppositions (such as OOOO etc), to see if it might lead somewhere that might allow you, as a jew, to challenge your own personal theistic dalliances. I fully accept and think that 'Jew' is a national or tribal identity as 'people originally based in the levant region,' and not a purely theistic label that refers to 'a religious group also known as the chosen people of the abrahamic/sumerian/canaanite, god Yahweh from a pantheon of similar gods created at that time, from the imagination of humans.
From wiki:
[i]Yahweh was an ancient Levantine deity, and national god of the Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Though no consensus exists regarding the deity's origins, scholars generally contend that Yahweh emerged as a "divine warrior" associated first with Seir, Edom, Paran and Teman, and later with Canaan. The origins of his worship reach at least to the early Iron Age, and likely to the Late Bronze Age, if not somewhat earlier.
In the oldest biblical literature he possesses attributes typically ascribed to weather and war deities, fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies. The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal. In later centuries, El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into Yahwist religion.[/i]
If you want to know why people accept Jesus, you'll need to ask them, not me.
I do, regularly, I ask you to comment on particular theistic issues, just as a form of general probing and prodding and as a means to an end goal, of exploring the thought processes and justifications behind your own theism. I also get the odd bonus, in that it also prods some of your defenders such as ignoble dust.
All good clean fun imo, and a chance for folks to be indignant and offended in a healthy way, without feeling forced to meet in a field and sort it out via hand to hand combat.
If my effort at some point, results in me getting banned from TPF, then, I enjoyed my time here and I will focus on other sites, no pain no gain.
This might be of some use to other readers or it may not be. It's a kind of 'brain storming' that I enjoy and I am sure you enjoy it to, in between chatting with others in the shoutbox about food relationships, what Frankenstein style food concoctions you create in your kitchen and your (acquired taste) attempts to be whimsical.
Playing the god U-ness. I am that I am. Why did I create?
I am all that is necessary (OOOO), why would I create?
I create to be able to judge what I have created.
'Let there be light and I saw the light and the light was good?' (an example of god creating and judging)
Was this when I invented good and bad and light? no light before then?
I needed such, to judge what I created.
Why did I create humans and burden them with sin and judgement?
1. The universe exists, so theists (people who believe a god exists) are forced to accept that god chose to create.
2. Creation is an act of will and intent, that suggests creation was necessary.
3. Necessity suggests a previous state of need or incompleteness.
4. God + creation must therefore be more than god alone, because god chose to create.
5. Creation of humans requires sin so that humans can be judged.
6. Theists claim god hates sin, the scriptural evidence., so god created that which it hates.
Suggested conclusion, it was irrational for god to create, as god + creation cannot be necessary or better than god alone, due to OOOO. God is stupid or does not exist.
I didn't put this in a thread, as I thought TPF could do without another god thread right now.
So I just put it in the shoutbox so that @hanover and other theists get a chance to call me a one truck pony again. I heard this style of anti-theist argument or similar, used on the pinecreek doug youtube channel with Doug.
I like a lot of his extheist output.
Wagoner is very classic, old school, sit on the front porch, listen to the buzzing and crackling AM radio gospel music of a bygone era. It's like listening to yesterday, so I like that part of it.
When I lived in southern Virginia, I used to watch the Porter Wagoner show from time to time. He was a really big deal and he brought Dolly Parton to public attention. She wrote "I will always love you" to him.
Mostly, his kind of country music is not the kind I listen to, but I like some of his songs. Here's one I really like. One of the best things about country music is that it's not afraid to walk the line between corny and funny for fear of falling off.
I agree that what you posted is "a version" but it's not better or even good.
:grin: One mans meat is another mans poison. In June 1986, Doctor and the Medics reached No. 1 on the UK Singles Chart with their version of the song, spending three weeks at the top.
I liked their version far more that Greenbaum's as they dressed better for the part.
It reached number 1 in the UK again with another version by Gareth Gates.
Reply to universeness
When have I ever claimed to have a point. Show me in the records! :blush:
(that video made me think of Donnie, only slightly less cheesy lol).
that video made me think of Donnie, only slightly less cheesy lol
I assume you mean the Doctor and the medics video. Nothing wrong with a bit a cheesy.
I liked the two ghost like female dancers and the guy dressed a little like Dr Strange having a bad hair day. He was one of my fav Marvel characters:
Reply to universeness haha! :lol: I was reacting to the other video, but it doesn’t matter.
A little Cheese can hit the spot sometimes.
[hide]or a whole lotta cheese!
Reply to universeness #1 in 1986 and 2003? That means I was spared this experience for a combined total of 57 years. There are vast seas of cultural sludge of which one can only hope to be spared.
Here are cultural sludge pumps providing material for your next post:
Reply to 0 thru 9
Yeah, the Bollywood Gareth Gates version is pretty bad. Maybe if Donny and Marie reformed just to do da new version, it would get to number 1 in America and the UK. Are they still Mor[s]m[/s]ons? Can mor[s]m[/s]ons sing such a song, and still get to mor[s]m[/s]on heaven?
in 1986 and 2003? That means I was spared this experience for a combined total of 57 years.
How did you get to 57 years of spared experience from 1984 until 2003?
Where did you pull the other 18 years from?
2003-1984 = 19 plus the 20 years before I posted the reveal to you, means 39 years of spared experience, where did the other 18 years come from?
One of the best things about country music is that it's not afraid to walk the line between corny and funny for fear of falling off.
I like it. :up: Generally I've found country music to be kitsch. But I only know Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard and Kinky Friedman, who seem to elevate the form. Generally it is not an aesthetic I go for.
That's the thin line between humor and corny I was talking about. No doubt a lot of country music gets on the wrong side of the line and a lot of it is just general pop crap with maybe a steel guitar thrown in. I didn't really listen till I got older and I got there through folk music and then bluegrass.
Reply to universeness Actually, I have been spared the music under consideration for 76 years, having not heard this specific crap before today.
But for arithmetic, 1986 to 2023 and 2003 to 2023 = 57. If you'd like a different number, that can be arranged. 39 is a nice number -- Jack Benny's age.
I didn't really listen till I got older and I got there through folk music and then bluegrass.
I had a similar experience. One of my entrees to country music were films like Tender Mercies with Robert Duval (1983). Another was the juke box at the Gay 90s bar I frequented in the early 70s -- there were a number of country songs that were played a lot (like Tammy Wynette's Stand By Your Man). Several friends sang gospel and country songs at get togethers, again in the 70s. What I once didn't like became OK.
I got interested in folk music for a few years in the 70s; I found a lot of remaindered "authentic" folk records, which weren't country (some of it was blue grass), but the music lacked the polish of the big folk groups like PP&M or the Chad Mitchell Trio. I came to like this kind of sound (at least for a while).
As a child, I associated country music with places that I had come to think of as disreputable -- the beer bars in our small town, the pool hall, and the like. There was nothing wrong with these places, actually, save for parental disapproval.
What I first heard of country music didn't have a lot of aesthetic variety. It all sounded very twangy, whiny, mostly about regret. Lots of regret. I didn't relate to the narrative the songs recounted back then. Now I have lots of regrets myself, and the songs are more meaningful.
I don't have any knowledge (technical or historical) about how the music was produced, but my sense is that the equipment used in the 40s and 50s -- microphones, studio spaces, recording devices, etc. produced a certain kind of sound that gage country music a distinct sound -- the same way that radio dramas and comedy shows had a sound flavor.
I don't know when or how the piece below was recorded -- might be on current state of the art equipment. -- but including the background noise in the opening makes it "sound right". Then there's the stretch limo parked next to the chicken coop, and Bill Monroe playing IN the coop,
Reply to Hanover Clarinetists have banjoists beat out all hollow. A joke that doesn't go over well with people who play the banjo: "Did you hear about the guy with perfect pitch? Yeah, he could throw a banjo 40 feet into the garbage can without hitting the rim."
What I first heard of country music didn't have a lot of aesthetic variety. It all sounded very twangy, whiny, mostly about regret. Lots of regret. I didn't relate to the narrative the songs recounted back then. Now I have lots of regrets myself, and the songs are more meaningful.
People joke that country music is all about drinking and getting divorced, but I've always found that good country music, or at least the kind I like, is about stories. And I'm not the only one to notice that the songwriters of country have a lot in common with the pop songwriters of the 40s and 50s - tin pan alley. And they talk about love that is not just about a man or women, but parents, children, country, and God. Many of the songs are also cleverly written and funny. And I find many of them moving.
Metaphysician UndercoverJuly 03, 2023 at 01:09#8196500 likes
A joke that doesn't go over well with people who play the banjo: "Did you hear about the guy with perfect pitch? Yeah, he could throw a banjo 40 feet into the garbage can without hitting the rim."
Do you play banjo BC? I've only heard that joke spoken by banjo players
BTW, a lot pop country music today seems to be rock with a banjo thrown in, along with the distinctive country voice.
BTW, a lot pop country music today seems to be rock with a banjo thrown in, along with the distinctive country voice.
You're right. At the gym I go to, they play bland pop music everywhere. Really annoying. After listening for a while, I realized how much it sounds like a lot of mainstream country. I imagine what the songs would sound like if I added some steel guitar.
At the gym I go to, they play bland pop music everywhere.
In the elevator where I work, they play some kick ass Muzak. The other day, the spin master rocked some "Oh Mandy." While they didn't play the lyrics, i knew them well and sang then under my breath, just like any man who has known times too tough to speak of.
That Mandy. She gave without taking. A fucking saint she was. Brought him back to life she did. Talk backwards I do. Can't stop doing this I say.
In the elevator where I work, they play some kick ass Muzak. The other day, the spin master rocked some "Oh Mandy." While they didn't play the lyrics, i knew them well and sang then under my breath, just like any man who has known times too tough to speak of.
That Mandy. She gave without taking. A fucking saint she was. Brought him back to life she did. Talk backwards I do. Can't stop doing this I say.
Wow, an elevator operator as well as an attorney? How do you find the time?
I guess you've redeemed yourself after that George Harrison sacrilege. I've never had tears in my eyes when listening to Mandy before.
Does it get old when people crowd your space while you're trying to have a client meeting? I imagine confidentiality can be an issue, even if riders are only hearing snippets.
Please note I was first. I wouldn't have been tasteless enough to step on another's joke.
Thank you for pointing this out. I will go through all the records and do a full audit about who said what and when. I expect it to take a while, but if you're correct in saying what you're saying about what you said, there will be hell to pay by somebody.
I found this bluegrass festival in a couple of weeks about 2 hours or so from me. Let me know who's going to meet me there. https://raccooncreekmusic.com/2023-bluegrass-festival
I'm going to make me a heaping bowl of egg salad and will likely eat a good bit of it as my mastercelebatory act for Independence Day. Any one else have such monumentous plans?
Thinking I might wash it down with ice tea so it doesn't just sit there all clogging up my throat, but I'm open to suggestions. Not wedded to that idea, so do let me know.
Last night some friends and I had a small party. We made Chicago-style hot dogs and some burgers. I made a bad ass potato salad. I'm so fucking good at making potato salad. The dogs were amazing. Of course we couldn't find neon green relish, sport peppers, or poppy seed buns, but they were close enough to the real thing. The burgers were smash burgers with my friends secret burger sauce and heirloom tomatoes. Simple. We drank a bunch of wine, as we tend to do.
I made a bad ass potato salad. I'm so fucking good at making potato salad
You do make a wonderful potato salad. Not too mushy, not too crunchy, not too bland, not too salty, not too beige, not too sparkly. It's like a starchy crunchy mouth celebration. Quoting Noble Dust
We made Chicago-style hot dogs and some burgers.
In corporate speak, I'm going to have to give a little pushback on this. You're in NYC, and giving a nod to the windy city isn't just inappropriate, it's God damned fucked up to all shit. It's like going to a NY hole in the wall pizza place and getting a deep dish pizza casserole or whatever the fuck they make in Chicago and thanking the guy for the amazing pizza. Sorry for the pushback, but gotta keep it real. Quoting Noble Dust
burgers were smash burgers with my friends secret burger sauce and heirloom tomatoes.
The secret sauce is Thousand Island dressing and those were Big Macs, not smash burgers. They are delicious though, just in moderation. Be careful with them.
This elevator is so annoying BTW. I mean the music is kick ass, but the bell dinging is distracting and my desk barely leaves room for my staff.
Reply to Hanover I hope Wade is successful in making a banjo-based music career. He seems to have the same level of commitment you'd find in a Juilliard violinist (don't know if they teach banjo at Juilliard or not).
His banjo performance is what one hopes for. At least that's my "knows-nothing-about-banjo-playing" opinion.
I found this bluegrass festival in a couple of weeks about 2 hours or so from me
Live bluegrass is really cool. If they play any gospel music, they like it if you dance the whirling dervish dance. You just put your arms straight out and spin around in circles.
When I was in college, I was lucky to get a job working at the local NPR affiliate. We had a sister folk music station. For about 3 years I engineered and mixed live in-studio sessions that we recorded of touring folk artists. Some of my fondest memories.
Edit: I feel like I should tag @T Clark because this feels like the type of honest, wholesome content that he provides.
You do make a wonderful potato salad. Not too mushy, not too crunchy, not too bland, not too salty, not too beige, not too sparkly. It's like a starchy crunchy mouth celebration.
:cry: I'm so glad you liked it - wait, what the fuck? Are you creeping on my VPN again? Were you that weird guy hiding in the shadows last night that nobody knew?
In corporate speak, I'm going to have to give a little pushback on this. You're in NYC, and giving a nod to the windy city isn't just inappropriate, it's God damned fucked up to all shit. It's like going to a NY hole in the wall pizza place and getting a deep dish pizza casserole or whatever the fuck they make in Chicago and thanking the guy for the amazing pizza. Sorry for the pushback, but gotta keep it real.
I have no defense. My New Yorker card has been revoked before it was even issued.
This elevator is so annoying BTW. I mean the music is kick ass, but the bell dinging is distracting and my desk barely leaves room for my staff.
If I was you, which I'm not, thank fucking satan, I would be having stomach problems from all the fucking up and down motion. Not to be confused with the up and down motion that is sometimes (but not always) involved in the act of fucking. Anyway, this constant up and down could ultimately be beneficial, though. Assuming there are multiple elevators that operate at the same time in your building, if I throw up on riders often enough, my personal elevator office would accrue such a notorious reputation that riders would actively avoid it, leaving me to contemplate the finer points of law in peace while smoking my pipe and constantly moving at a brisk up and down pace.
I think I'm better at your style of humor than you, honestly.
Happy Independence Day to all our American friends. I will be celebrating with pancakes, maple syrup, and marshmallows, then buffalo wings, tuna salad, sport peppers, deep-fried bald eagle, and a Long Island Iced Tea.
Reply to Jamal How dare you mock my nation great and proud. If you don't think we won't recross the Deleware and take what little land you have left and send your king packing once again, you are sadly mistaken.
I actually have always celebrated July 4th, mainly it has to be said because it’s my birthday, but I do also celebrate the independence of countries and nations such as the US which shook off the might of the British Empire.
I'll be having wine, Mediterranean food, and maybe a negroni. None of those are especially American, but I'll be thinking of y'all.
think I'm better at your style of humor than you, honestly.
It is reminiscent of the Hanoverist tradition, but obviously not authentic. It's sort of like how Friends
(a cheap knockoff by a second rate competitor with a so so penis) was a response to Seinfeld (an industry leader by one of God"s chosen people with a 7 out 10 penis (better than so so, but room for improvement) (which is true for most of us, right?)). but just didn't fully hit the mark.
However, I shouldn't be too critical because I don't want to discourage anyone from being more me-like.
This reminds me of the time I closely emulated @Jamal's usage of the porridge/ejaculate comparison. That collaboration yielded a new way of seeing the world, and so I encourage you to continue thinking WWHD.
I had a negroni, a bottle of wine, six courses of food, two large Lagavulins while my wife had two large Baileyses, and I'm now relaxing by the pool. Remind me again why my life is so shit.
It is reminiscent of the Hanoverist tradition, but obviously not authentic.
My wordsmithery is so witheringly spittin' it wilts it's prey to smithereens. Those were some mixed metaphors but I did it on purpose so it works. Anyways, all I'm trying to say is I take someone's style of prose, emulate it, and transcend it. It doesn't matter that it's not authentic just like it doesn't matter if I mix my metaphors, as long as I choose to do it. Or like how this is a circular argument, but I also did that on purpose, and so it's therefore a good argument.
Reply to Noble Dust You have approximated a couple of Hanover's humor tricks, "like how this is a circular argument, but I also did that on purpose, and so it's therefore a good argument", but not quite matched them. You didn't work penis length into it, for example. But your shortcomings are actually a good thing, because one giant Hanoverian organ is enough, considering how it pokes into everything and gets stuck going around corners, to mention just a few of its problems.
They smelled like hospital disinfectant, but that's what we love about Islay whiskys. Am I wrong?
Yes you are very wrong and I despair, if those two beauties were wasted on you.
You should spend a long time, deep nosing the Lagavulin, until your olfactory is conditioned to appreciate what's coming.
Take a sip and wash it around your mouth but don't swallow, and keep yer geggy SEALED, during the washing. Then swallow and take in a little air simultaneously. The release of complex peaty, smokie, earthy flavours, will overwhelm you, and bring you closer to the star constituents you are formed from and the planet you were spawned on. This is Lagavulin pal, not hospital disinfectant. Perhaps you should stick to something like Bells or Jamesons, or real crap like Jack Daniels.
Reply to Jamal
Then don't dare insult it! Or else you should be banned from Scotland!
Instead, textualise why you loved it, in an attempt to repent and redeem yourself.
Reply to Jamal
I will do better. I will redress the imbalance in the universe created by your insult to the glory that is Lagavulin, by going down to my drinks cabinet, opening my already seal broken, partially drank, bottle of Lagavulin 21 and sniff it for 2 minutes of appreciation. Transmitting that reverence to the universe, should save you from getting banned. It's the single malt equivalent of me praying for your Scottishness!
Reply to Jamal
Sniffing the malt whisky is the way to the true heart of the malt whisky.
You will always reach whisky climax far too early if don't learn the proper whisky foreplay.
You will lose all the Jam in yer Jamal!
Reply to universeness I don't deny that many single malts are excellent, but you've been taken in by the marketing, which unfortunately professional Scotchmen like you take on as a kind of general marketing for the nation. I call bullshit.
Reply to universeness Using standard English is not the preserve of the English you mudak. Have you heard of Oscar Wilde, James Joyce, and most pertinently, Alasdair Gray?
Reply to Jamal
When it comes tae single malt whisky, you need to relearn Scottish!
Have you ever heard of Rabbie Burns, William Wallace, Sean Connery and Billy Connolly?
I think Billy wants to express an emotion to you.
Where do you think peat comes from? Swamps. Peat is just what piles up on the bottom of a swamp. It's the first step on the way to coal -- given millions of years, and a zillion pounds of pressure.
Peatland covers 20% of Scotland's land. Peatland is just dry swamp.
To make your national drug, they suck up a tank of yellowish swamp water (peaty, earthy, smoky); add flavorless alcohol made from corn grown on the former prairies of Iowa; let it sit long enough for the slop to even out. Bottle, label, and hype it.
When it comes tae single malt whisky, you need to relearn Scottish!
Have you ever heard of Rabbie Burns, William Wallace, Sean Connery and Billy Connolly?
I think Billy wants to express an emotion to you.
You really need to decide if you’re going to run with the ersatz Scots or stick to standard English. Which is it, numpty? You use “tae” in the first sentence, but then “to” in the last. Make up your mind, Mr Scotchman.
Speaking of swamps, this lady was stuck in the mud for 3 days in a swamp in Massachusetts. Maybe @T Clark knows her. https://www.yahoo.com/news/massachusetts-woman-missing-week-found-132312005.html
Reply to universeness He missed all the insults and quarrels over whether whiskey's flavor comes from a swamp or a bog. But... he is right. A bog is not a swamp. I stand corrected. The difference is mostly in elevation. Swamps are situated lower than bogs. Scotland is reported to have swamps, wetlands, fens, and marshes. And bogs. The Celts used to (probably still do) throw bodies into the bogs. The humid acid generated by the rotting plant matter preserves bodies, and makes for a more complex flavor of whiskey.
You really need to decide if you’re going to run with the ersatz Scots or stick to standard English.
As a Scot a kin type ony mix a vernacular a want, soshoveitupyerglumpher!
Nae scot his tae spoke right England just because an errant Scot, suggests that one absolutely, ought to because its just not cricket, not to, ya Nigel!
Reply to Hanover Fascinating! Over the centuries, animals that similarly got stuck in mud became material for archaeologists. Some mud holes are loaded with bones. They should probably excavate this swamp; perhaps Jimmy Hoffa was "stuck" there.
Reply to Hanover It’s a hot topic in Scottish culture as it happens. Some would say that since Gaelic was never spoken throughout at least half of Scotland, it doesn’t…
It’s a hot topic in Scottish culture as it happens. Some would say that since Gaelic was never spoken throughout at least half of Scotland, it doesn’t…
Reply to Hanover I don’t know about the Glaswegian bawbag, but I hereby extend Scottish nationality to you, subject to the normal conditions (kilt-wearing and caber-tossing, for example).
Reply to Hanover
If you confirm that you have never sniffed it, and then compared it to hospital disinfectant, then you can type as much Gaelic as you like, as far as I'm concerned. But don't forget:
Gaelic and Gallic are two different references. Gaelic is the common but incorrect term for Irish and Scottish traditional languages, both of which are Celtic in origins from the Goidelic branch of the Indo-European family of languages. In Ireland, the language is called Irish, while in Scotland, the correct term is Gaelic. Gallic, on the other hand, is an adjective that means relating to the French. It is derived from the word Gauls, who were a Celtic tribe that inhabited France, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, and Italy
True Scots is probably Pictish but I can't speak that either.
My sister says Laphroaig tastes like iodine :scream: and her husband (American) thinks it's too peaty!
I say, all the more for me! :grin:
you confirm that you have never sniffed it, and then compared it to hospital disinfectant, then you can type as much Gaelic as you like, as far as I'm concerned. But don't forget:
I dated a Persian woman briefly, but still too long,
who was very simple and sweet, but boring and annoying, and she offered me a drink when i first went to her place, and I accepted. It was tall glass of Laphroaig accompanied by a glass of water I suppose to chase it down. I truly believe she thought that was just a normal serving, being as she was. . That introduction to the whisky was the only thing of lasting value from the relationship.
I drank it without testing its aroma, but that was more for me not knowing what it was. I feel weird drinking it today, like I'm wearing an old shirt an ex bought me.
Well no, because the Scoti were an Irish tribe that went over to Scotland and partly displaced or assimilated the Picts.
Scoti is Irish for Gael and the Gaels founded Dalriada, from Dalriata in Ireland. The Picts conquered Dalriada many times, and eventually the picts and scoti became one under Kenneth Mac Alpin who was a Pict, but he married a Scoti princess to seal the deal and the tradition then was to take the matriarchal identity, leading to Scotland rather than Pictland. However, I do accept that there are disagreements on this origin story of this place getting called Scotland.
I would have probably moved to Persia, if that is the traditional measure they served.
I would of course, wave away the water.
But I would have been confused and a little concerned by the signs that said 'your are now entering Iraq,' or another that said 'Welcome to alcohol free Iran!' :death: :flower:
So let me get this. You think it’s okay to abuse a chap who says in no uncertain terms that he loves this single malt, just because you don’t like his tongue-in-cheek description (which nevertheless points to a real aroma profile)? That is the height of Scotchish snobbery and brings shame to our great nation.
That is the height of Scotchish snobbery and brings shame to our great nation.
I very much agree. I always thought the Scottish a special sort, the perfect combination of intellect and kindness, never with a hint of pretentiousness or superiority. But with this exchange, I now reconsider, witnessing a haughtiness typical of the most dastardly breed of English aristocrat, and from one claiming to be a true Scotsman?
That is the height of Scotchish snobbery and brings shame to our great nation.
If I had had enough single malt nectar myself at this point, I would shay shomefing like.
Naw but sheriously man, you talk shome total shite by ra way, but it dushney matter caush were aw jock tamshens bairns an am gonny try an shat up ..... no!! keep the heid man, keep it the gither! Am gonny try an chat up that lassie err there! I will probably be back in aboot 10 sheconds man! :rofl: Hoad the fort!
Looks cool. Why? I've never visited. It's surprisingly out of the way. The roads in the SW make no sense. It's not much longer to go from Edinburgh to Carlisle than it is to go from Stranraer ("the toon") to Dumfries by public transport.
I like the bit where @Jamal said the Scottish were really Irish or some such. I think my ancestors came from that direction, so I may be an Irishman who's really a Scotsman who's really an Irishman.
So long as you're not English I imagine you'd get a bit of leeway. Scottish people are insane about what counts as English. Being south of any particular Scotsperson's home counts you as English to them, but only when irritated.
Edit: Unless you're Welsh. I'm conforming to stereotype by forgetting Wales exists.
And for a bit of cultural exchange: All this ongoing talk of bluegrass, strong spirits, and the Celts with their descendants brings to mind a 1997 album aptly named “Plum Brandy Blues” – this being the way some of the modernized Romanian ancestors of the ancient Dacian peoples now spend their time, plum brandy and all.
A more easy to handle sample for your listening displeasure:
ps. yea, its by "The Nightlosers" ... which I think references the losing of night in favor of daylight or some such. Eight way, I'm pretty sure there was plum brandy involved.
Even if so, life, generally speaking, can still be often enough shitty ... and by whom would life have been so certified? A shit-loving certifier? :razz:
In the words of some character from the movie/book The Princess Bride: "Life is pain; anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you something". (I'm thinking Buddhists, for one example, would be in general agreement here.)
Ye jovial boys who love the joys.
The blissful joys of Lovers;
Yet dare avow with dauntless brow,
When th' bony lass discovers;
Pray draw near and lend an ear,
And welcome in a Prater,
For I've lately been on quarantine,
A proven Fornicator.
Before the Congregation wide
I pass'd the muster fairly,
My handsome Betsey by my side,
We gat our ditty rarely;
But my downcast eye by chance did spy
What made my lips to water,
Those limbs so clean where I, between,
Commenc'd a Fornicator.
Even if so, life, generally speaking, can still be often enough shitty ... and by whom would life have been so certified? A shit-loving certifier? :razz:
I am English by birth and upbringing, Scottish by extraction and name, and Welsh by marriage and domicile. Accordingly, I have no other recourse but to admit to being a Fucking Brit, in the fond hope of annoying and offending almost everyone as is my tradition.
My only allies are the fascists, the Commonwealth immigrants, and the so called Loyalists of N.Ireland that all we Brits despise and try very hard to forget.
Breakfast today was whatever was in the fridge, namely a Yukon Gold potato diced small, red onion, cherry tomatoes and two eggs made into a hash. Seasoned with salt, pepper, garlic powder, thyme, celery seed and fresh dill. The eggs were supposed to be over-easy on top, but I over cooked them, so I squirted on some ketchup for the saucy component. No complaints.
Reply to Noble Dust I made the same thing this morning except I substituted the ketchup for musty bawbag sweat. How I accumlated it, well, that's just something between a man and his bawbag he might not want to share.
Reply to frank I watched that video by dragging my cursor along the bottom to scroll through the 27 minute video in 3 seconds, so I could have missed something, but my thoughts on it were that they'd do themselves some favors by building rails.
Reply to BC Mountains just move slowly, and you don't notice most times; but every now and then they move a bit faster, and then you know all about it and have to get out of the way quick-smart.
They're hardcore. They do everything without rails. Awesome scenery, though.
I read that American roads are more dangerous because we put up rails, signs, wide shoulders, and we bank them so they're safe at really high speeds, so people drive crazy fast. If you make your roads really dangerous, everyone is extra careful.
I read that American roads are more dangerous because we put up rails, signs, wide shoulders, and we bank them so they're safe at really high speeds, so people drive crazy fast. If you make your roads really dangerous, everyone is extra careful.
I was working at a site in Alabama. The road to the site was single lane each way, big drop offs on the side with no rail, few straight sections, narrow shoulders, and a speed limit of 55 mph. The road itself was very well maintained and it was fun to drive. Every few miles there was a white cross by the side of the road, sometimes more than one.
The road to the site was single lane each way, big drop offs on the side with no rail, few straight sections, narrow shoulders, and a speed limit of 55 mph. The road itself was very well maintained and it was fun to drive.
Shit. I once drove on just such a road on my way to Colorado from California. It was very late at night and pitch black. Thing is, I was thinking about pulling over to urinate. I didn't. Only found out it was such a road on my way back to California while driving in daylight. Cheers or jeers to my yet being in the world aside, it was quite an unnerving experience to find out where I initially wanted to take a piss that night, this on my way back. :grin: A twilight-zone-ish experience. (But yea, I'm still around to take occasional pisses in various locals :razz: :joke:)
But then, if you look at those trucker shows on TV, where big trucks and cars are driving, and passing, on narrow roads in the Himalayas or Andes, you realize our examples aren't in the big leagues.
Once my travels took me to St. Johns, a most remote island in the Caribbean sea, and after swimming with the colorful fish among the reef and taking in the local cuisine, most memorably the Johnny cake and fresh caught fish, I hired a vehicle, might I say a Yaris, and I drove it about looking here and there for novelties and dare I say troubles. The roads were in quite a dire state, with potholes about, often forcing one up the steepest of grades only to find one's self suddenly descending at quite the angle. Making matters worse was the left sided roadway and the right sided vehicles, placing the driver precariously twisted trying to see if other motorists might be traveling towards.
And so it went, the days long and the nights filled with mystery. I look upon those days on those far away roadways in the midst of the high seas with both joy and sadness, and when I speak of them, nay, when I write about them, I sound like a long winded kook I must say.
Would it really trouble anyone else here to write as I do? I don't think it too much to ask, and it would add a certain sense of decorum now missed in the Shoutbox, the place where all great adventures commence.
Would it really trouble anyone else here to write as I do? I don't think it too much to ask, and it would add a certain sense of decorum now missed in the Shoutbox, the place where all great adventures commence.
In the interest of adding a sense of decorum to the Shoutbox...
There was a period in my life when I was spending every other semester in Boca Raton, Florida working at IBM. One weekend a group of us IBM coop students set off on an adventure, to explore Key West and the alcohol there.
One of my fellow adventurers had the porn star name of Rod Pierce, a fact of which Rod was quite proud. Another was Mike, with a somewhat Germanish last name which I can't remember. The last was someone I only knew while on this expedition; whose name I don't recall at all.
About midway through our drive over the Atlantic we stopped to go snorkling. There I had the amazing experience of being inside what seemed to me to be a huge school of small silvery fish. The fish making no real effort to avoid me while also smoothly changing directions such that no matter how I moved they and I had water between us.
I myself would have been happy to end our travels there and continue such explorations. However the alcoholism of some of my comrades was calling them to continue the journey, and so we proceeded to drive across the Atlantic in a southwesterly direction. (Driving in a direction other than southwest or northeast seeming inadvisable.)
Upon reaching our destination we participated in the local custom of watching the sun set. (Meh that evening. I've seen much more spectacular sunsets over seas of corn.) After that ritual was over we proceeded with the serious business of getting profoundly drunk on beer (possibly Corona, but I don't really remember) and peppermint schnapps (which I will never forget due to the headache that lasted two weeks, and the revulsion towards peppermint tooth paste being in my mouth which lasted at least as long).
Late that evening, or perhaps early the next morning, my taste for adventure was exhausted. I told my friends I was going to go wait by the car and went and meditated on vomiting peppermint on the streets of Key West. (Just to be clear, vomitting doesn't play nearly as a big a role in my life as my participation in the Shoutbox might suggest.)
Perhaps a half hour after I arrived at the car my friends arrived, with Rod Pierce being accompanied by a young lady. My memories beyond that point are extremely foggy, but somehow the five of us piled into the compact car, with the young lady sitting on Rod's lap. Via a process which will forever remain a mystery to me, we all ended up in a hotel room where I immediately crawled into one of the two beds and passed out.
The next morning I heard about Rod living out his name, and my missed opportunity to lose my virginity via sloppy seconds. However, that missed opportunity did not sit very high on my list of regrets, and would remain an adventure for a later time.
Reply to wonderer1 Were the schnapps in a shot glass at the bottom of the beer mug? Bottoms up, guzzle guzzle... b) you were on highway 1 over the "7 mile" bridge? Where along the bridge does one go scuba diving? c) have biologists explained how schools of fish manage to move as one? d) I prefer to be much closer to sober than dead drunk during orgies. More fun that way. One remembers more for later replays. e) So was "Rod Pierce" suitably well hung? f) I'm lucky I survived my first drunken experience in college.
Two of us had walked over to Bluff Siding, WI opposite Winona, MN to the liquor store. The drinking age was lower in Wisconsin. We bought 2 bottles of rot gut wine and walked back through the swamp along the Mississippi on a railroad track. It was a warm spring night, Midway we stopped and guzzled down this disgusting slop. results: Immediately drunk. The next phase of the walk back was across the Mississippi on a swinging railroad bridge. No rails on the bridge. Luckily, we didn't fall off. At the end of the railroad bridge we had to climb through a scrap metal yard attached to a foundry, then another mile back to the campus dorms.
Very sick for several days. A few years later, I found that I could get equally sick on much better quality wine. I've never gotten sick on beer or hard liquor. I stay away from wine. Headache city.
The way buddhist monks sweep up elaborate sand mandalas and throw them off the mountain or into a river or onto an icy street (depending on geography).
The way buddhist monks sweep up elaborate sand mandalas and throw them off the mountain or into a river or onto an icy street (depending on geography).
The Buddhists in Minnesota throw the sand onto icy streets. :grin:
have biologists explained how schools of fish manage to move as one?
I found out the difference between a school of fish and a shoal recently. A shoal is just a bunch of fish, not necessarily all the same species, hanging around in the same area. A school is a bunch of fish, all the same species, moving together in an organized manner.
It is my understanding that fish move the way they do for the same reason flocks of birds do. The movements are caused by individual fish and birds acting in accordance with simple rules depending on the actions of animals immediately next to them. The flocking or schooling behavior emerges from the individual actions of hundreds of animals in a manner similar to the behavior of cellular automata.
A cellular automaton consists of a regular grid of cells, each in one of a finite number of states, such as on and off (in contrast to a coupled map lattice). The grid can be in any finite number of dimensions. For each cell, a set of cells called its neighborhood is defined relative to the specified cell. An initial state (time t = 0) is selected by assigning a state for each cell. A new generation is created (advancing t by 1), according to some fixed rule (generally, a mathematical function) that determines the new state of each cell in terms of the current state of the cell and the states of the cells in its neighborhood. Typically, the rule for updating the state of cells is the same for each cell and does not change over time, and is applied to the whole grid simultaneously,
Here's a link to a site where you can play with cellular automata. Go to the site, push the Reset button, which will turn to clear, push Clear. Then you can fill in cells in a pattern. Then push start. A lot of patterns will go extinct in a few moves. Some will cycle. Try larger patterns.
It is my understanding that fish move the way they do for the same reason flocks of birds do.
What occurs is that a particular animal displays leadership abilities that are instinctively recognized by the others as undeniably superior to their own and so they hypnotically mimic that behavior because of the certainty it will increase their successes in all matters of survival.
It is known as the Hanover Principle, named after the most pronounced occurrence of it on record.
Were the schnapps in a shot glass at the bottom of the beer mug? Bottoms up, guzzle guzzle... b) you were on highway 1 over the "7 mile" bridge? Where along the bridge does one go scuba diving? c) have biologists explained how schools of fish manage to move as one? d) I prefer to be much closer to sober than dead drunk during orgies. More fun that way. One remembers more for later replays. e) So was "Rod Pierce" suitably well hung? f) I'm lucky I survived my first drunken experience in college.
a) The schnapps were separate shots which we would slam, and then drink the beer at a more leisurely pace. When we got close to finishing our beers someone would buy another round of shots and beers. I know we were in the landmark Sloppy Joe's when I finally gave up, but we did some bar hopping prior to getting there. I'm kind of amazed I was able to find my way back to the car.
b) I believe it was at John Pennekamp State Park on Key Largo that we went snorkling. That fits with my memory of it being about halfway between Boca and Key West.
c) Fish have rows of pressure sensors down the sides of their bodies called lateral lines which enable them to move in schools the way they do. Although I don't know if scientists have figured out how they keep from colliding from above and below. Avoiding collisions from above and below seems like it would be particularly important considering the direction the pointy bits tend to point.
e) I don't know whether Rod was hung commensurate with his name.
Very sick for several days. A few years later, I found that I could get equally sick on much better quality wine. I've never gotten sick on beer or hard liquor. I stay away from wine. Headache city.
Ah, to feel so young and invincible again. I bought a cheap motorcycle to get around when in I was in Florida. Between the drinking with my social circle down there, and riding a bike, it's a wonder I survived.
I haven't been much of a drinker since my school days, but I think I may be similarly vulnerable to wine. Wine would generally be my first choice in an alcoholic beverage because I like the taste of many good wines, but I do seem to get headaches after drinking even a moderate amount of wine.
A shoal is just a bunch of fish, not necessarily all the same species, hanging around in the same area.
So, what about Muscle Shoals, Alabama? [it was the birthplace of the blues and Helen Keller.] What does a shoal of muscle look like -- Arnold Schwarzenegger? (It is Muscle shoals, and not Mussel shoals.)
Also, birds don't have the lateral lines that Wonderer1 mentioned.
Just wanted to introduce myself briefly and say hello folks. I'm a nerd, I'm a dork, and I'm hoping to find some interesting ideas here, and share some if I can. Nice to meet you all.
Reply to flannel jesus Welcome. Here you'll find plenty of dorks and nerds; dicks, autodicats; credentialed experts; conservatives, liberals, socialists, anarchists, and libertarians; lawyers; liars, saints, thieves, knaves, prophets, and scoundrels; some of our posters are breathtakingly young; others of us are pretty old and, surprisingly, still in possession of some of our faculties--diversity, in other words.
In England, a washcloth is called "a flannel' (which is what they used before the Turks invented terry cloth). Are you a washcloth Jesus or a lightly brushed slightly fuzzy fabric Jesus?
This woman was in a coma, but the nurses noticed when they were washing her private area, she would respond. They told her husband and suggested he engage in some oral with her in the hopes it might awaken her. He said he'd try anything at that point.
From the other room the nurses heard the alarms and when they came in she had flat lined. They asked him what had happened, and he said he didn't know, she just started choking.
Funny you should say this. When I was in England and Scotland, the hotels didn't have washcloths. I bought some while there, and to this day, I keep a washcloth in a pocket in my suitcase so I'll never be without what I have learned is not a universal hotel item.
Reply to Tom Storm Americans don't refer to the piece of cotton cloth used for washing as a flannel, a face washer, or as Terry toweling, For one thing, we use the same rag to wash all parts of our gorgeous bodies. What do you use for the rest of your Australian carcasses? There are 3 sizes of what you call terry toweling: wash cloth, hand towel, bath towel. What is a hand towel? I guess its to dry your hands. I just use the bath towel. Hand towels cost almost as much as a bath towel.
I buy very cheap ratty wash cloths at Target. They're good for about a years worth of light use and then they get very thin. A first class wash cloth will last for years but costs a lot more than ratty wash cloths.
Etymology: The name “terry” comes from the French word “tirer” which means to pull out, referring to the pile loops which were pulled out by hand to make absorbent traditional Turkish toweling. Latin “vellus”, meaning hair, has the derivation “velour”, which is the toweling with cut loops.
I think many don't use the washcloth/washrag, but just use soap, and even more commonly a liquid bodywash. In addition to the washrag I always pack, I also bring a bar of soap. The bodywash does not sufficiently lather, particularly not when poured onto the washrag. My thought about the move to the bodywash dispenser is to reduce quantity by making the dispenser difficult to use and by not requiring a partial mini-bar of soap be used and then discarded
To access sufficient bidywash, you will need to remove the dispenser from its holder, take off the top, and the pour the actual quantity you need, and even then, you'll probably want to add some shampoo for it to lather.
My other pet peeve in hotels, especially the nicer ones, is the required valet parking and baggage handlers. You're left waiting in lines and offering tips for people doing things you don't need help with and just slowing you down.
And who has cash for tips? I went to the gift shop to get change for a $20 and the lady said I had to buy something to get change. I just told her no one would get a tip and I left. Everyone stared at me pissed off when I wouldn't tip them, but I was like, your own hotel wouldn't change out my $20, and I'm not buying Tic Tacs as a work around
The Motor Inn. How I long for the Motor Inn. I wasn't raised to think luxury meant being treated like you were handicapped and needed able bodied people to take care of you.
Reply to frank One never knows when disaster is going to strike next. Sorry about your gruesome big toe. "Almost came off" sounds bad--is it barely attached?
The big toe is the one pedestrian digit that actually does something, and heavy things are always falling on it. Not fair!
In Scotland people say "facecloth". A flannel is a pie filled with organ meat, chips, and gravy.
I don't use a facecloth. Using just the hands, one can wash one's face with one's hands while simultaneously washing one's hands with one's face. My beard, which is made of short stiff bristles, functions as a brush upon my hands. But I do not use abrasive tools to wash my face because my face is so irritable.
My other pet peeve in hotels, especially the nicer ones, is the required valet parking and baggage handlers. You're left waiting in lines and offering tips for people doing things you don't need help with and just slowing you down.
North American problems. Upon alighting from my train at Montreal or Toronto or somewhere like that, I was overwhelmed first by porters and then by taxi-drivers. I'd never experienced that before.
And who has cash for tips? I went to the gift shop to get change for a $20 and the lady said I had to buy something to get change. I just told her no one would get a tip and I left. Everyone stared at me pissed off when I wouldn't tip them, but I was like, your own hotel wouldn't change out my $20, and I'm not buying Tic Tacs as a work around
More North American problems. I sympathize, both with you and the workers you left disappointed.
The story goes that service workers in continental Western Europe, particularly waiters, do not expect tips because they are paid properly. I wonder how true that is. Maybe partly.
Russia (5-10%) is more tippy than Spain (0-5%), but not as much as the UK (10-15%).
Reply to Jamal Tipping isn't a big thing Australia. Sometimes people tip at a restaurant for excellent service or exceptional cheffing. Generally the price is the price and tipping is optional. In Australia, waiters and barmen are mostly paid a basic hourly rate - around $23-$29 per hour.
If you lose the toe, they will replace it with a hook toe and give you a parrot and eyepatch.
I'll be old Hooktoe.
Reply to Tom Storm
You have to tip well in America, especially if gas prices are high, or inflation is high. That said, waiters make decent money in high-end restaurants.
Dropped a 2x6 on my big toe and it swelled up like a grapefruit and the toenail almost came off. So just be careful.
I broke my big toenail at the cuticle by the way I had my feet back under my chair while reviewing the design of a circuit board. Dangerous stuff.
The 60 year old plank of a toenail didn't come off though. New thin baby like toenail is pushing the old toenail off. It's been about six months and now my toenail if half old plank, and half shiny and new.
I figure when the old toenail is gone, the new toenail will be razor thin, in which case I will sharpen it into a weapon to use in case of spies.
More North American problems. I sympathize, both with you and the workers you left disappointed.
I'm so over the out of control tipping culture that has evolved in the US. When I was younger, it was 15% pretty firm, where'd you actually do the math and figure it out. Somewhere along the line 20% became standard and now you see on the credit card machine three options of 22%, 20% and 18%, or you can choose whatever amount you want. They put the 22% first I guess so you'll just click that one.
And the tip option appears everywhere, even restaurants where you order from the counter, get a number, and then have to carry your food back to your table. It's trickled down to fast food restaurants other than the most basic ones like McDonalds and Wendy's, but I'm sure that's coming. We'll be tipping from kiosks soon for having put the kiosk through the trouble of taking our order.
The stupidest of all is the bathroom attendant, where you tip the guy to turn the sink on for you and hand you a paper towel. He usually has a bunch of colognes you can purchase as well. The guy literally works next to a toilet.
I broke my big toenail at the cuticle by the way I had my feet back under my chair while reviewing the design of a circuit board. Dangerous stuff.
I had this big smasher thing that I used to pack the asphalt down on my driveway when I was a kid and I smashed my toe with it. It turned all purple and the toenail fell off, but it came back like yours did.
When I was kid, you were allowed to use smasher things. Now only trained professionals can use them.
It sounds like you weren't a waiter in college. What did you do to make money?
I had a variety of jobs. Let me give you a quick rundown of my CV. I worked as a busboy at a Chinese restaurant, I sold newspaper subscriptions door to door, I worked as a pizza deliverer and pizza cook, and seems like I did some other things too. I can't quite remember them all. I threw newspapers out of my car window onto people's lawns for a short while. That was tricky becasue you had to throw them over the roof across the car. When it rained, your hand got really cold and the cars behind you weren't happy about the pace of your driving, but I didn't mind. I was fully committed to delivering the news. It's my higher calling, which is why I am also diligent here at the Shoutbox keeping people informed.
"Hello, this is Hanover from the Atlanta Journal Constitution and we're running a really big special today. You can receive one month of the AJC for only $13.99 and you can decide then if you want to renew. There are over $50 in coupons every week, so you'll more than make your money back, and the AJC has the top ranked business/sports/national news in the region, so let me get you signed up."
"No thank you."
"So the way it works is that I get more commision for selling this paper than it costs you, so let's split it and I won't tell anyone, so I can get it to you for $7.00."
"Ok, sign me up."
"Hey boss, I just got another sale"
"Why are your sales forms so fucked up looking and why are there checks mixed with cash and a bunch of other crazy bullshit?"
"Hey boss, I just got another sale. Why so many questions?"
The story goes that service workers in continental Western Europe, particularly waiters, do not expect tips because they are paid properly. I wonder how true that is. Maybe partly.
My brother goes to Europe a lot and knows his way around. When we went there together he told me that waiters don't expect tips. He generally just leaves the change from the meal. I think waitering is a more respected job over there.
So you didn't spend much time working for tips? That's why you don't feel a responsibility to take care of them. I'm guessing.
I worked for tips when I delivered pizza, but I was actually driving out to someone's house and bringing them something. I didn't get 22% handing someone their food from across the counter.
You have to tip well in America, especially if gas prices are high, or inflation is high. That said, waiters make decent money in high-end restaurants.
My son was a bartender for 10 years in San Francisco, Detroit, and New Orleans. Service work is really hard - low base bay, no benefits, very chaotic schedules, shit customers, late nights, proximity to alcohol. They depend on tips. I've started tipping much more since the pandemic. Many service people, including my son, were devastated and lost their jobs.
I figure, I have a lot more money then most of them do so I won't be stingy.
I'm so over the out of control tipping culture that has evolved in the US.
Yes, I've noticed that the expected tip has gone up. As I noted in my response to @frank, service is a shit job. I don't begrudge a generous tip. Although I still only give the gas pump 10%.
Dropped a 2x6 on my big toe and it swelled up like a grapefruit and the toenail almost came off. So just be careful.
I've had a lot of trouble with my big toenail over the years. It comes from wearing bad boots while working outside. I bought these and they work really well, especially while the toe is healing.
Here's a link on Amazon. Tell them T Clark sent you.
Toe condoms. Yes, I constructed my own out of bandaids, but it wasn't ideal because everytime I changed them, I disturbed the nail and I was afraid it would fall off. I'll look for the zen-toes the next time I decide to crush a toe.
Reply to frankReply to T Clark It's not the boat; it's the motion of the ocean. This is something the hung-like-horses never say.
Frankly, my prognosis--based on your comment that "I disturbed the nail and I was afraid it would fall off"--is that your nail is past saving and you might as well remove it now. Removing the nail yourself will certainly be a character building experience. Or you could have a doctor do it or let a nail salon rip it off.
Frankly, my prognosis--based on your comment that "I disturbed the nail and I was afraid it would fall off"--is that your nail is past saving and you might as well remove it now. Removing the nail yourself will certainly be a character building experience. Or you could have a doctor do it or let a nail salon rip it off.
Reply to HanoverReply to frankReply to T Clark "Tipping in Europe isn't entirely comparable to tipping in the US. In some EU countries, there is a 15% service charge--which the owner receives and out of which service wages are paid." The BBC web site says, "French serveurs are paid, on average, 1,495 euros a month, only a shade more than the statutory minimum wage, and they usually expect some sort of tip."
In Germany, der Ober is paid, on average, €27,295 a year and €13 an hour, and a 5% - 10% tip would be typical. The average pay of workers in Germany is €22.65.
"Trip advisor. How You Pay: Typically, the waiter/waitress always comes to you and tells you your total. You then tell him/her how much you will pay, i.e. the amount you owe plus any "rounding up" -- for example, the waiter/waitress might say "€7.60;" you hand him/her a €10 note and say "9 Euros." S/he then will give you €1 in change."
Reply to BC I'd rather just text what I want from my seat and then get a text when it's ready and I can go and get it from the kitchen. I can handle my own drink refills and I'm happy to bus my own table and wipe it down. I'd even be fine with grabbing other people stuff if I'm going to be getting up anyway. I get no added value from being waited on, expecially if I have to wait. I don't like the mindless banter either and look forward to the waiter's departure once they've arrived. One thing for sure, if I'm a customer in this self-serve vision I've just described, no one in my section will go wanting, as I will be very attentative and would even consider giving the other patrons some of my own portions if that would enhance their dining experience.
My best guess is that my concept will spawn a whole new sense of cooperation among diners, where everyone will work together as a family in a large dining room. For example, if you wanted a scoop of icecream, I'd go back in the freezer and look for some for you, and, if they happened to be out, that'd be my car you'd hear cranking up, as I embarked to the local grocer looking for your special flavor.
We can do what I just described, or we can just keep watching service fall as service fees rise. I think the decision is a simple one.
Reply to T Clark Of course you would. Blood is thicker than cyberspace. On the other hand, your brother doesn't seem to be available for specific questions.
Reply to BC On this occasion @T Clark and his brother seem like better sources than the stuff you found with your light Googling, and they fit with my experiences in continental Europe. Having said that, I’ve never been to Germany.
I have been to Germany, had a chance to speak with @T Clark's brother, and I've Googled the issue, so I have all the knowledge there is to have.
What I can tell you is that when I went to France and I tried to pay for my VRBO with a mix of Euros and US Dollars, the guy didn't want my US dollars. He also told me to leave him the rest of the money under the place mat once I got it, which I did, but he called me all accusingly, saying I didn't leave him the money, so what the fuck was up. I told him a place mat refers to something on the table, and that he could not find the money under the welcome mat simply meant he was looking in the wrong place. He then looked, and was like all "nevermind" and shit. Yeah, whatever.
Then he called me a week after I got home and he asked me why there was mascara all over one of his washcloths (yeah, I know, right? Another washcloth story, how weird is that?). I told him there was probably mascara on his washcloth because my wife must've used it to take off her mascara. He was like, well, thanks for telling me, and I was like, do you want me to send you a box of washcloths, and he was like it's no big deal, don't worry about it. And I'm like, I'm thousands of miles away and you're asking me about it, it feels like a fucking big deal. I mean, really?
I feel like there was another question posed that I might not have answered.
What I can tell you is that when I went to France and I tried to pay for my VRBO with a mix of Euros and US Dollars, the guy didn't want my US dollars. He also told me to leave him the rest of the money under the place mat once I got it, which I did, but he called me all accusingly, saying I didn't leave him the money, so what the fuck was up. I told him a place mat refers to something on the table, and that he could not find the money under the welcome mat simply meant he was looking in the wrong place. He then looked, and was like all "nevermind" and shit. Yeah, whatever.
Then he called me a week after I got home and he asked me why there was mascara all over one of his washcloths (yeah, I know, right? Another washcloth story, how weird is that?). I told him there was probably mascara on his washcloth because my wife must've used it to take off her mascara. He was like, well, thanks for telling me, and I was like, do you want me to send you a box of washcloths, and he was like it's no big deal, don't worry about it. And I'm like, I'm thousands of miles away and you're asking me about it, it feels like a fucking big deal. I mean, really?
Other than talking to your brother, it was a true story. I think my demeanor doesn't translate well with the French. Like I took a shuttle from the hotel that was represented to me as being complimentary, and then the guy charged me, so I said, "oh, I thought it was free," but I paid him not really caring, recognizing I might not have understood something, but was just making small talk. If I said that in Atlanta, they'd have just laughed and said "Ain't nothing free" or something like that and that would be that.
But with this French guy you'd have thought I accused him of theft. He just went on and on about how it wasn't free. I told him that's all fine, I don't care. I just thought it was. He then kept going on about it like I insulted him, and I was like I don't know what you think I meant, but I didn't, and I'm tired of hearing you defend yourself about something you've never been accused of. It was like he was hell bent on our having some conflict or something.
?BC On this occasion T Clark and his brother seem like better sources than the stuff you found with your light Googling, and they fit with my experiences in continental Europe. Having said that, I’ve never been to Germany.
I trust my brother to know what's what better than your sources.
"Light Googling" he says. Hrummph!
I would guess, just off hand, that the BBC writer and TripAdvisor staff might, possibly, have had contacts with European countries on at least one or two occasions, quite possibly dozens.
You didn't say what was deficient about what I had found. Our esteemed Jamal and T Clark's excellent brother are, of course, experts, unlike the idiots at the BBC and a travel company nobody ever heard of.
Other than talking to your brother, it was a true story.
Now that I think of it, the one thing missing from all your stories is the "True story" at the end. I recommend you use it from now on. Better yet "...True story."
If you say the truth and nothing else, regardless of the consequences, you will have an immense adventure throughout the course of your life, and despite the immediate chaos that might ensue, you will create the best of all possible worlds.
Reply to Noble Dust You've not been posting in the Catbox--I mean Shoutbox--as much as usual lately. Have you been unwell? Heavy work load? Undercover work for the Tajikistan Intelligence Service? A hot new romantic interest? All of the above in a very complicated situation?
Anyone else think it's possible @Jamal just lost his mind some time ago and never actually spoke with Chomsky in the first place? It's been on the back burner for me for quite some time now and I'm beginning to think it's very plausible.
I would guess, just off hand, that the BBC writer and TripAdvisor staff might, possibly, have had contacts with European countries on at least one or two occasions, quite possibly dozens.
You didn't say what was deficient about what I had found. Our esteemed Jamal and T Clark's excellent brother are, of course, experts, unlike the idiots at the BBC and a travel company nobody ever heard of.
Harrumph x 10[sup]60[/sup]
I shall address your post in detail later. Prepare to be destroyed.
I made the usual chicken shawarma, hummus with Syrian pita, and a vaguely Mediterranean white bean salad. I followed the recipe and used cucumbers, and once again, regretted the decision. I managed to make the hummus too thin this time.
I eat mackerel a lot. How much is too much, with regard to mercury, I wonder?
FDA usefully has listed mercury concentrations in lots of fish types. Had to use it recently to ensure I wasn't giving myself mercury poisoning from tuna.
Reply to fdrake Thanks. Big difference between different kinds of mackerel, or where the mackerel is from. Now I just need to find out where my canned mackerel is from, or else decide I'm probably OK because I only eat it about three times a week.
The key is to cook the mackerel on low heat slowly in an aluminum pan. The mercury will weep out of the mackerel eyes (so leave the head on). You usually can extract a few tablespoons per pound of mackerel, and you can then repurpose it for homemade thermometer use.
If you accidentally ingest it, you'll need to induce vomiting with three cups of buttermilk you're going to need to drink quickly (as if a teenager slamming beers on spring break). This remedy should work, and you can then resume eating mackerel as you used to.
If the remedy doesn't work, you'll start acting strange, like a mad hatter, which has its plusses and minuses. Trust me.
Chomsky said he’ll get to the questions when he can— apparently unexpected things turned up for him. Another member reached out and got no response, which makes me worry a little about his health. I don’t want to be too pushy but will follow up eventually if I don’t hear anything.
Thank you. Still, I’ll be pretty disappointed if we don’t get anything. Apparently he’s taking time to rest, according to his wife— and that’s concerning, given that it’s Chomsky.
Yeah. I've been emailing him on a consistent basis since 2015, roughly every 2 weeks or so.
He usually replies extremely quickly and replied to all but perhaps 7 or so out of hundreds.
So, the fact he took so long on this last one, doesn't give me great vibes. At most he may not answer emails during a 2-week period, but no more than that.
So, after not hearing anything from him for over 4 weeks now, I got a reply from his wife, but I'm pretty sure it's an automated reply.
I can only wish it isn't too serious, but given his age, it's normal to worry...
He's 94, very old. Less and less stands between the living and the dead as one ages, and by one's 90s, there's usually little holding us to this world. Still, in 2020 there were 631,000 Americans 95 and older. However, 95 to 100 is pretty dangerous: there are only 89,739 Americans over 100.
Reply to MikieReply to Manuel Chomsky's works, his many travels and speeches, his generous willingness to correspond with strangers, and his long life are gifts we have received, and for which we can be grateful. If, as it may be he is near death, then the right thing to feel is grief and gratitude. "Thank you, Noam!"
Chomsky's works, his many travels and speeches, his generous willingness to correspond with strangers, and his long life are gifts we have received, and for which we can be grateful. If, as it may be he is near death, then the right thing to feel is grief and gratitude. "Thank you, Noam!"
I could not phrase it better myself. Nothing but gratitude, infinite infinite gratitude.
Thanks BC, for those words, they're very moving.
[joke]Noamie, he hates it when I call him that, asked me to respond. He says fuck you all, he's still alive, so please wait for the eulogies. I quote "every hour is a super gift my ass."[/joke]
It would be amazing to get them all together in the same stadium.
I think the rose bowl stadium in California could hold them all.
What activities/entertainments/experiences would TPF members suggest for a stadium full of centenarians? Mexican wavelets? Slow ones of course.
How about a 'sing off?' 1920's style Vs 2020's style?
Reply to jorndoe Are there any suggestions why these geese were walking in this long line? Were they on a house tour? Was it a demonstration? Are they in basic training?
Reply to universeness Hard to say. People over 100 have had a century to develop very particular preferences. And it depends on where the are from -- What are Mexican wavelets, for instance? A hairstyle?
Music from their youths? Let's say, hits from 1933: The last round Up ("I'm heading for the last roundup")... nice song, but it's about impending death. Stormy Weather... what with global heating, this song will always be in season. 1943? Kate Smith singing God Bless America. I find her, her singing and that song particularly nauseating, but centenarians will probably groove on it.
Or they could watch a salad of Gone With The Wind, The Wizard of Oz, and the Great Dictator chopped up and spliced together. Some of them would notice, some wouldn't. During the burning of Atlanta, the sound track can be overdubbed with Welcome to Munchkin Land. The Tin Man can throw Scarlett down the stairs and say "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." Charlie Chaplin can shoot the Lion and throw the scarecrow into the fire. Lassie and Mammy can run off together. Lassie? Oh, why the hell not? He's better known than Rin Tin Tin.
A cooked goose is delicious, but they aren't very meaty (they are all fatish dark meat ) and they are a royal pain to get ready for the kitchen--all those pinfeathers that have to be pulled out, one by one, for instance. I've killed lots of chickens; I don't know what chopping the head off a goose would be like. They are physically more threatening and feistier than your most warlike chicken. Turn your back on a gander and it will attack you wherever their big beaks can get ahold of you.
If someone has done the same thing day after day without fail for 94 years, it is fairly predictable they will do the same thing moving forward.
So, if the person has woken up every morning that predictably for 94 years, the empirical evidence is that he will carry on for the 95th year and so on.
I think a stadium of centenarians would enjoy doing that, but I am not sure they could all stand up so fast or fully, so I went for the term 'wavelet' (due to the inevitable observed fluctuations in amplitude,) and the idea of a wave approaching an observer more slowly, than the one in the above clip.
Music from their youths? Let's say, hits from 1933: The last round Up ("I'm heading for the last roundup")... nice song, but it's about impending death. Stormy Weather... what with global heating, this song will always be in season. 1943? Kate Smith singing God Bless America. I find her, her singing and that song particularly nauseating, but centenarians will probably groove on it.
I was thinking more of a 'sing off' between songs like the 1923 classic:
(the good thing about this one is that there is a long musical intro, which will give the 100's sufficient time to limber up and figure out what's happening)
And how much we have improved in 100 years :lol:
We could provide rotten tomatoes for the 100's to throw at Ryan Gosling for agreeing to appear in such a crap movie and sing such a crap song but I am concerned that the 100's could only hit a nearby fellow 100(+), and that could start a mass punch up, between the 100's.
Although this line dancing to hip hop 102 year old, might just be able to hit Ryan right in the jewel box, if she was in the front row of the stadium.
Or they could watch a salad of Gone With The Wind, The Wizard of Oz, and the Great Dictator chopped up and spliced together. Some of them would notice, some wouldn't. During the burning of Atlanta, the sound track can be overdubbed with Welcome to Munchkin Land. The Tin Man can throw Scarlett down the stairs and say "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." Charlie Chaplin can shoot the Lion and throw the scarecrow into the fire. Lassie and Mammy can run off together. Lassie? Oh, why the hell not? He's better known than Rin Tin Tin.
Yeah, this is exactly what I was interested in. The crazy musings of TPF members, faced with the task of entertaining a stadium packed with nearly 90,000 American centenarians.
Many on TPF are supposed to be philosophy specialists, how would such knowledge assist in such a task?
. Lassie? Oh, why the hell not? He's better known than Rin Tin Tin.
WTF??? Lassie was a male??? Then why the f*** did they call it Lassie?
In Scotland, a lassie is very definitely female. Was Lassie a trans dog?
Is this another story about what I think I know that I know, when in fact I don't know that I know, what I was so sure, I knew?
Next you will be telling me Lassie was also a practicing Christian and a Collie supremist! :scream:
Who is the fairest Lassie of them all?
One of the iterations of the breastaurant (a term to describe Hooters and the other knock-offs where scantily dressed waitresses serve beer and wings to middle aged men) was a place called The Tilted Kilt. They would dress in short kilts and wear these half shirts tied off at the mid-section. I think the chain went out of business. There was one near me, but I never went in there because I had this fear I'd see the neighbor kids working there.
EDIT: I stand corrected. It's alive and well: https://tiltedkilt.com/
Reply to Hanover
There was an even riskier one opened in Glasgow town centre during the 80's.
It was called 'wenches,' and the bar maids wore various lingerie concoctions, including such items as basques, fishnets, stockings and suspenders etc, all the usual lingerie, that inflames most, if not all hetero young males. I think the owners (two gangster looking men,) were hoping this would be the start of a large chain of pubs called 'wenches,' opening all over Scotland.
I was there on the second weekend of its opening. It was mainly lots of male customers, just constantly adjusting their eye, head and body position, to follow the motions of every barmaid in the pub.
There was very little conversation, making any useful progress.
The barmaids themselves just looked scared to me.
They had 4 bouncers on the door as you came in.
It only lasted a few months, as after an initial period of calm absorption of the surroundings, the place became packed with guys, who got more and more brave and became more and more forward.
I was only in it twice but it was well reported that the police were getting called out to it, almost ever hour to arrest people and take away the damaged and broken bodies. It was closed by police order, after the place was almost wrecked during a particular Saturday night session.
Such a 'street pub' could not exist today in Glasgow. There are still a few 'strip clubs,' but you need to pay to even get in and the security is far more serious than 4 knuckle dragging bouncers on the front door.
I have never been in a strip club. I remember just feeling awkward in wenches, not because I didn't lust after the barmaids, it was more that I could see so clearly, in their faces, that they hated the men leering at them, including me.
Humans were in South America at least 25,000 years ago, giant sloth bone pendants reveal
The date that humans arrived in South America has been pushed back to at least 25,000 years ago, based on an unlikely source: bones from an extinct giant ground sloth that were crafted into pendants by ancient people.
Discovered in the Santa Elina rock shelter in central Brazil, three sloth osteoderms — bony deposits that form a kind of protective armor over the skin of animals such as armadillos — found near stone tools sported tiny holes that only humans could have made.
The finding is among the earliest evidence for humans in the Americas, according to a paper published Wednesday (July 12) in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
I had always understood that humans first came to the western hemisphere about 12,000 years ago. Recent archeological findings had pushed that back to around 15,000 years. This study moves it back much further, to 25,000 years, which is surprising.
I remember just feeling awkward in wenches, not because I didn't lust after the barmaids, it was more that I could see so clearly, in their faces, that they hated the men leering at them, including me.
This was the only part of your post that actually sounded sexist to me. It suggests that the women were coerced into using their sexuality by disgusting, leering men. I'm sure that's the case with a few, but probably a good number liked the party atmosphere and the money, although I do agree that few found the men as attractive as the men found the women, but that's usually the case.
I just don't accept the whole women as victims in need of protection and sympathy. It's so old school patriarchy.
Reply to Hanover
Well, projecting from 'women dressed in lingerie in a bar, as their 'choice of workplace,' towards full sex workers. I have certainly heard such female sex workers, in various documentaries, state how much they enjoy their work, and see it as a well paid job, that they are happy to do and feel that it is genuinely, a good career choice. Although in some such documentaries, it often goes on to describe the personal problems such individuals also report, when it comes to ability to maintain a long term relationship with a partner whom they 'love.' It's complicated stuff. I also think that sex workers who would recommend such a career, are very few.
I just don't accept the whole women as victims in need of protection and sympathy. It's so old school patriarchy.
I think many people choose to do a job they would otherwise never choose to do, if they had an alternative way to make the money they need. It's that 'no other way I can meet my needs and the needs of my dependents,' that I find so unacceptable.
Are you determined to ensure, or at least are willing to help to ensure, that all people, including all women, don't ever have to be viewed as, or demonstrate any need for, protection and sympathy, because we all live under a global system that fully provides such, from cradle to grave, under the banner of basic human rights?
Even if I accept this statement in it's claim that there are only a few in the category we are placing them in here. Do you feel any responsibility towards such folks, who find themselves in such situations?
According to ostensibly informed reports, the original print "Lassie" was a female dog, but the film and television "Lassie" was always a male. According to allegedly informed sources, the reason for NOT using a female dog was that female lassies's fur deteriorates when they are in 'heat'. Male dogs don't have that problem.
How did they ensure the dug in the films and TV never showed it's bollocks?
That must have been a fun job for the editors, 'we must check all footage to see if the dug shows any bollocks!!!' Or did they just not care enough?
I, gay male, have been in straight strip clubs in Minneapolis. (I was there on business.) The atmosphere was subdued. The show was better in the more upscale places. One of the places was old (at least 40 years in business), and the strippers were older too -- too old, I thought. But then, so were a lot of the customers.
Strip joints are bars, and low quality drinks are the key to monetizing unclothed women. The women hustled drink sales in between "performances". Tips are given, but that isn't the main income stream. In the late '80s, a lot of places had no cover charge, and security was minimal. Male strip shows (gay bars) were much livelier, partly because they often got off the stage and mingled as part of the show.
I've no desire to set foot into a breasturant. Mixing a lot of sexuality and food just seems unsanitary.
Reply to BC
You paint a rather unfulfilling picture of such aspects of humanity, and make me think I may have found the gay strip club you describe, more palatable than the straight ones you describe, but only for the me now, and not the 'anti anyone not hetero,' younger man I was.
Even though it would now probably take me all night to do what I used to do all night.
I still find an image such as:
Overwhelmingly and breathtakingly attractive. I suppose it's a natural imperative, but it's also why nefarious people, can make so much money from the skin game.
The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
Nothing, I was asking you:
Do you feel any responsibility towards such folks, who find themselves in such situations?
I was asking you what responsibility you were asking that I take. Are you asking that I take responsibility for the fact that they are there, that I take responsibility to find them a better job, that I take responsibility that they are not mistreated at work, that I take responsibility to treat them with respect, that I take responsibility not to encourage the behavior by patronizing such places, or what?
I think my answer is that whatever responsibility I do take would be unaffected by the fact that I'm male, but I'm not sure what you're asking I take responsibility for.
According to ostensibly informed reports, the original print "Lassie" was a female dog, but the film and television "Lassie" was always a male. According to allegedly informed sources, the reason for NOT using a female dog was that female lassies's fur deteriorates when they are in 'heat'. Male dogs don't have that problem.
Do you think Ron DeSantis would prohibit showing reruns of "Lassie" in Florida?
Reply to Hanover
Again, I was not asking you to take any responsibility for anything.
Do you feel that if you felt/experienced the need, to take some personal action, to assist someone in the circumstance described, in one or more of the ways you listed in your last post, then that could be a very positive action to take. I agree that such has much more to do with your notions of your own personal humanism than your chosen gender.
Do you feel that if you felt/experienced the need, to take some personal action, to assist someone in the circumstance described, in one or more of the ways you listed in your last post, then that could be a very positive action to take. I
I don't know what you're getting at really. I don't see them as being in a position where they need saving. They're just making money, and if they're fine with it, so am I. If they secretly hate it and feel humiliated, they need to find a new job I guess.
How did they ensure the dug in the films and TV never showed it's bollocks?
So much fur. Plus, Lassie insisted on NO BUTT SHOTS. Not because he was embarrassed about his balls or butt hole (he was, of course, inordinately proud of both). For dogs. all the money is in face shots.
The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands. Aren't there reforestation jobs for them to do? Can't they spend their time straining plastic out of the ocean with small sieves? Why aren't they making sure squirrels cross the road without getting run over? Why aren't they out capturing CO2?
Do you think Ron DeSantis would prohibit showing reruns of "Lassie" in Florida?
He would because Lassie personifies American Family Values better than anyone else. Lassie was never caught lying, cheating, or stealing. He always supported family togetherness and unmitigated wholesomeness. He was an expert problem solver, lost child finder, a great communicator, and always chaste on-screen. (Off screen he was a profligate serial rapist who was always spoiling purebred bitches' pregnancies resulting in dachshund / lassie crosses and worse.). So yes, DeSantis will probably start appearing with a lassie stud by his side all the way to the White House.
My brother and I had heard from a neighbor kid, that the streamer thingies that fall out of fireworks don't all get ignited, and after the town fireworks show the ones that don't ignite land in the field across the street from us. He showed my brother and I, how when you light one of the little chunks, it burns real bright. It was pretty cool.
So that July 5th, we were ready...
We got up early in the morning to harvest the bounty of streamer thingies. We found the full unexploded dud cannister, of one of the town's fireworks. Such amazing luck! We took it back to our parent's garage.
In the garage we put the canister on the top of a wooden crate that contained my brother's and my rubber rafts, that we would take when we went to the lake where my grandparent's lived. We got a carpet knife out of the toolbox, to cut open the cannister and learn what treasures we had found. About this time, my four year old sister wandered outside to see what her older brothers were doing. We cut into the canister and were overjoyed to find that the top of it was packed full of streamer thingies with little chunks of black material, which being the sciency kid that I was, I figured to be black powder for throwing the streamer thingies far across the sky. I figured that black powder could be pretty fun to play with as well.
However, that would have to wait. We could see that the streamer thingies were in a subcompartment of the cannister, and there was further bounty awaiting our wondering eyes. We cut down the side of the big cylinder, so that we could remove the compartment full of streamer thingies. We found that the rest of the main cylinder was filled with a silvery powder. I was a sciency kid, and I had a chemistry set and I knew how cool it was to set a strip of magnesium on fire. I figured that silvery powder filling the remainder of the cannister had a lot of magnesium in it, and was in there to make one of those blindingly white flashes accompanied with a loud boom that can be heard miles away.
Since you wrote this post, you were apparently not blown up. Or you were, and somebody else wrote this post. Had I been there, I would have greatly enjoyed the "research" into what could be done with this stuff.
Had I been there, I would have greatly enjoyed the "research" into what could be done with this stuff.
Indeed.
I told my little brother that I thought we should try building our own little firework using the silvery powder, and that we would need a lit candle.
While he went to get a candle and matches, I rolled some of the paper from the outer cannister into a firecracker sized tube, and filled the tube with as much of the silvery powder as I could. About the time I was done doing that, my brother showed up with the lit candle. I told him that we were going to drip wax into the ends of the tube of silvery powder to seal it up. I had him hold the candle over the cannister of streamer thingies so that it was close to the cannister of silvery powder, over which I was holding our first attempt at an IED. Paul dropped the candle! It's his fault!
Black powder started popping and streamers thingies started streaming, in a fountain shooting out of the top of the streamer cannister. We elected to run away, and my brother, sister, and I ran deeper into the garage. About the time we reached the furthest corner of the garage, a streamer must have landed in the silvery powder, because BOOM!!!
I'm resorting to hearsay now, but as I recall hearing... My mom's heart came clear out of her body and she ran to find out what had happened. When she opened the door to the breezeway connecting the farmhouse to the garage, a monstrous hanging chad of ceiling was hanging down, and thick smoke was billowing into the breezeway. She rushed through the breezeway to go outside and see if any of her kids were still alive. But she was stopped by the solid wall of smoke billowing out of the garage door. While she was steeling herself to walk into the blinding smoke to see if any of us could be saved, my siblings and I came walking out of the smoke.
The garage itself was cinderblock and it was fine, although I suspect it had little particles of melted rubber raft speckled around the interior walls until it was torn down. The windows of the garage were all blown out, with some of the glass landing 15 feet away from the garage. The opened garage door was 3/4ths blown off its tracks and dangling precariously from the ceiling. And my sister had a half inch diameter hole burnt through her pajamas, but hadn't been burned herself.
We were all pretty deaf for the rest of the day, but we didn't get in trouble at all!
If they secretly hate it and feel humiliated, they need to find a new job I guess.
Yeah, so let's think about those (which unlike yourself, I personally think, is actually the vast majority of those who take such jobs in such bars) who do hate such jobs, but are forced to do them as they need the money and have very few or no alternatives, open to them. Do they need better protections?
Do you think individuals should be economically forced into any job, especially ones that involve a sexual objectification that does negatively affect the status of women in society and how women are 'viewed' by society. I am not suggesting that scantily clad barmaids, female strippers, prostitutes etc are more damaging to the status of their societal gender than their male equivalents (eg from the Chippendales to rent boys), as I don't know that there are studies available, that demonstrate irrefutably, that such women, negatively impact the status of the societal gender they represent, much more, than their male equivalents do. But I do again, emphasise my point below and ask if you would rather support what I suggest below, or do you prefer the status quo?
Are you determined to ensure, or at least are willing to help to ensure, that all people, including all women, don't ever have to be viewed as, or demonstrate any need for, protection and sympathy, because we all live under a global system that fully provides such, from cradle to grave, under the banner of basic human rights?
Aren't there reforestation jobs for them to do? Can't they spend their time straining plastic out of the ocean with small sieves? Why aren't they making sure squirrels cross the road without getting run over? Why aren't they out capturing CO2?
Are these alternate jobs available to folks in the skin game? Can you earn an equivalent level/rate of pay doing such alternate jobs where you live?
In the area I live, all the 'help improve the environment' tasks I see advertised, ask for unpaid volunteers only! I don't think such would help those in the skin game, survive!
How much does 'making sure squirrels cross the road without getting run over,' or 'straining plastic out of the ocean with small sieves,' pay, where you live?
The women hustled drink sales in between "performances". Tips are given, but that isn't the main income stream. In the late '80s, a lot of places had no cover charge, and security was minimal. Male strip shows (gay bars) were much livelier, partly because they often got off the stage and mingled as part of the show.
I've no desire to set foot into a breasturant. Mixing a lot of sexuality and food just seems unsanitary.
I went to one of the 'better' clubs like this in my city about 15 years ago. I was writing a feature article for a major city newspaper on the women and what why they worked there ( I used to have a side hustle as a feature writer). I was surprised by how nice and how smart many of the women were. They were artists of small talk, they listened attentively and were interested in the world; politics, literature, history. Some of them were at university. Others were backpackers. One or two were lost. An amazingly witty and intelligent girl from Israel held my attention for a good hour. Curiously, a couple of girls gave me phone numbers, which they had to do on the sly because the bouncers were on the lookout for hook ups. Against policy. I didn't follow up with any of them. I was 40, they were 21... My editor killed the story. He said I was too sympathetic.
Do you think individuals should be economically forced into any job, especially ones that involve a sexual objectification that does negatively affect the status of women in society and how women are 'viewed' by society.
A job becomes increasingly intolerable to the extent it violates that person's value system, particularly when one finds their employer disgusting in some way.
A traditional value is that sexuality, unlike say intellectual capacity, physical ability, or having some unique skill, is to be personally protected and not monetized. That is particularly true of female sexuality, which has a much higher monetary value in the market than male sexuality.
So, if you hold to that traditional view, you would be miserable monetizing your sexuality. The higher you hold that sexual value, the less you could tolerate in terms of selling any aspect of your sexuality.
My point is that many hold that sexual value in low regard, and I'm not one to project or proselytize my beliefs on others. The fact that i might be traumatized by selling me sexuality does not mean others will, and the fact that I've seen the light in terms of the best way one ought express their sexuality doesn't mean I'm doing good to spread that gospel.
All of this is to say, my job isn't to protect women from their sexual decisions, as they can decide what's best for themselves without my assumptions of what I think is best for them. If they hate their jobs, I would support their quitting, but some, all things considered, don't want to quit.
Reply to Hanover
I think your last post comes across as seeming quite reasonable but I also think it's a clear example of just handwaving away the very real and very negative aspects of employment/exploitations involved in the selling sex industry.
In reality, the sex industry perceives it's customers as walking cash machines, and perceives the job of those in the sex industry, as primarily being, to nurture and develop the best ways to separate people from their money. As you suggest, some are happy to do this and many are forced to, due to economic desperation or due to criminal pressure.
Are you determined to ensure, or at least are willing to help to ensure, that all people, including all women, don't ever have to be viewed as, or demonstrate any need for, protection and sympathy, because we all live under a global system that fully provides such, from cradle to grave, under the banner of basic human rights?
Is my statement, that it is essential, that society protects all people against being forced into or having to stay in, the selling sex game, due to either economic or criminal pressure.
I think the difference between us is that I am willing to plant a flag of full support, for the global system I outlined above and you don't feel the need to support such a future global system, and all current efforts towards achieving such.
Having said that, Am I correct in saying that you do support the idea of a UBI for all people?
I can't remember if it was you or perhaps @TClark that supports UBI.
Is my statement, that it is essential, that society protects all people against being forced into or having to stay in, the selling sex game, due to either economic or criminal pressure.
Economic pressures are what cause anyone to work, so you'll have to explain why you believe that work that revolves around sexuality is a special class warranting special protection.
If there were a person I'd be concerned about protecting from such an industry, it would be my daughter. The reason I don't wish to impose the same standards upon the rest of the world as I would my own daughter isn't because I lack the ability to greater empathy beyond my own family, but it's because I realize I'm not a parent, specifically a father, to the rest of the world. If I did take the approach that I was and that my duty to be a father extended to the greater community, then I would arguing for paternalism, which I don't.
This is hyperbole, so don't freak out, but it's made to make my point. You are presenting these women as damsels in distress in need of a white knight to save them from the pain imposed upon them by the evil dark princes surrounding them.
My point is that even if it is true these women probably are making some less than perfect decisions and that there probably is a healthier path for them, the bottom line is that they're adults, fully able to decide for themselves, and fully able to live with the consequences of their actions. They will be just fine without me meddling into their personal decisions as if I know better.
Having said that, Am I correct in saying that you do support the idea of a UBI for all people?
I can't remember if it was you or perhaps TClark that supports UBI.
I am so far right of the UBI position I'm confused how you could be confusing me with that position.
Economic pressures are what cause anyone to work, so you'll have to explain why you believe that work that revolves around sexuality is a special class warranting special protection.
Only under capitalism and the money trick rules. It's just that you have experienced a lifetime of that horrible system, so you type statements like the one above. I did a job for 30+ years that I considered vocational. A job I loved doing regardless of the money, but you are correct, that under capitalism, people are economically forced to do all sorts of jobs that they hate or that mean nothing to them, which creates resentments such as:
[b][i]If you work and do your best, you will get fired, like all the rest.
But if you mess and fuck about, you will live to see the job right out.
The work is hard, the pay is small, so do your best to screw them all.
Or on your tombstone neatly lacquered.
Worked and died cause I was fucking knackered![/i][/b]
No-one should be compelled to work in any job, due to economic pressure. I do however think that this should apply even more for some current jobs, such as sex work, politics, law, military, police, medicine, teaching etc where the mental strains can be much more intense, compared to working in a flower shop.
If there were a person I'd be concerned about protecting from such an industry, it would be my daughter. The reason I don't wish to impose the same standards upon the rest of the world as I would my own daughter isn't because I lack the ability to greater empathy beyond my own family, but it's because I realize I'm not a parent, specifically a father, to the rest of the world.
I can only say that I am glad I do not share that view. I think your humanism is limited, perhaps even poor, but that's just my opinion.
This is hyperbole, so don't freak out, but it's made to make my point. You are presenting these women as damsels in distress in need of a white knight to save them from the pain imposed upon them by the evil dark princes surrounding them.
No I don't think it is hyperbole, I think you are stating your point of view clearly.
It is merely your choice to try to wrap my point of view regarding sex workers, in some kind of chivalric narrative. I reject your attempt as mere sophistry, and quite poor, transparent sophistry at that.
The exchange between us is not important enough for me to freak out, but I will respond to you with my honest point of view, trying my best, to match the level of diplomacy, that you offer me.
My point is that even if it is true these women probably are making some less than perfect decisions and that there probably is a healthier path for them, the bottom line is that they're adults, fully able to decide for themselves, and fully able to live with the consequences of their actions. They will be just fine without me meddling into their personal decisions as if I know better.
The point you continuously wave away is that many of the women you are describing here,have no such choice! Any other choice often means destitution for them and any dependents they may have.
Are these alternate jobs available to folks in the skin game?
The advice to go do something useful was addressed to the CRITICS of the skin game, not the practitioners of the skin game. Or, do you count the critics as part of the skin game?
The ocean is far away. Can't do much about it here.
The advice to go do something useful was addressed to the CRITICS of the skin game, not the practitioners of the skin game. Or, do you count the critics as part of the skin game?
Oh, I was very aware of the angle you were coming from but I wanted you to consider whether or not you thought these comedy jobs you were musing over, were available to 'the practitioners of the skin game?'
Don't get me wrong, I think re-foresting and jobs to help clean up the environment, should be more numerous and better, way better, paid, but such don't offer an improved standard of living, compared to those in the sex trade or for those who criticise the current levels of protections available to those in the sex trade.
Do you think it would be a better world, if the only people engaged in the sex trade, were those who viewed such, as one of their vocations in life?
the very real and very negative aspects of employment/exploitations involved in the selling sex industry
Hey, work sucks; that's why they have to pay people to do it. Most jobs performed by workers are exploitative, unpleasant, tedious, uncomfortable, etc. Is it any worse to have one's hands and feet, or head, exploited rather than one's sexual aspects? C'mon, lefty; this is basic.
Reply to BC
:lol: I see that you are a form of socialist I am unfamiliar with. You have declared yourself socialist, here on TPF, yes? Or have I got your past statements as wrong as suggesting hanover supported UBI?
So yes Mr socialist, this is basic, if you are going to use the label socialist for yourself, then you have to actually think like one.
No-one should be compelled to work in any job, due to economic pressure.
Then I guess your ethics conflicts with ontological reality. I think people shouldn't have to breathe to survive. What am I to do?
In any event, the least productive workers are those who work just for the paycheck. I'm all in favor of finding a job that you can find challenging to some extent. Quoting universeness
I can only say that I am glad I do not share that view. I think your humanism is limited, perhaps even poor, but that's just my opinion.
You're not supporting humanism. You're supporting paternalism. My view is that the human response is to afford people autonomy and not constantly run over to them with cures for the ills they deny having. Part of life if making one's own decisions and own mistakes. That a woman wishes to put on her shortest shorts and sell beer to drunk men isn't evidence of victimization and abuse. It's just her doing whatever she decided to do, and me trying to save her against her will from that doesn't indicate I'm some wonderful person. I'd just be a controlling middle aged man who can't handle the fact that some people have views on sexuality that vary from my little world.
It is merely your choice to try to wrap my point of view regarding sex workers, in some kind of chivalric narrative.
If by sex workers you mean people forced into prostitution and beaten by their pimps, then I'm in favor of prosecuting them however the law allows. If you mean by sex workers a college student who puts on a too short kilt and waits tables for middle aged men while giggling at their stupid jokes so that she can make big tips, then, no, it's not my place to intervene, and I'm not a special hero if I do. I'm actually kind of a judgmental dick if I do.
The point you continuously wave away is that many of the women you are describing here,have no such choice! Any other choice often means destitution for them and any dependents they may have.
If we're now talking about the class of women who engage in the sex trade to avoid becoming destitute, as if these women have no other options else face homelessness and hunger, you're now talking about a class of women with other psychological issues, including significant problems with drug and alcohol addiction. The problem isn't capitalism or lack of opportunity in those instances, but it's psychological disability and my guess is some form of real, actual physical coercion, like sex trafficking, pimping, or some form of domestic abuse.
You're not supporting humanism. You're supporting paternalism. My view is that the human response is to afford people autonomy and not constantly run over to them with cures for the ills they deny having.
No, I support humanism and humanists do not try to cure ills that people report they don't have as humanists are currently overwhelmed trying to help stop some of the ills people do have.
Part of life if making one's own decisions and own mistakes. That a woman wishes to put on her shortest shorts and sell beer to drunk men isn't evidence of victimization and abuse. It's just her doing whatever she decided to do, and me trying to save her against her will from that doesn't indicate I'm some wonderful person.
You just keep repeating your fake assertion that I am trying to stop some barmaid working somewhere relatively tame like a hooters bar. You are also still stuck in your chivalric mindset about 'saving' women.
Perhaps you need to dismount from your own perceived white knight horse imagery that you keep trying to insist I am selling. Again, for the umpteenth time, I am referring to folks who are economically forced to choose the sex trade. That is unacceptable, yes? Stop trying to dance around that question.
If by sex workers you mean people forced into prostitution and beaten by their pimps, then I'm in favor of prosecuting them however the law allows. If you mean by sex workers a college student who puts on a too short kilt and waits tables for middle aged men while giggling at their stupid jokes so that she can make big tips, then, no, it's not my place to intervene, and I'm not a special hero if I do. I'm actually kind of a judgmental dick if I do.
You are progressing a little here but very slowly. So, if the college student (not your daughter, but someone's daughter,) can only find a 'Wenches' style job as the only one available to her, that will allow her to maintain herself, any dependants she has, and stay in her college course, then I find that reality unacceptable and she should not be faced with that situation as her only choice. Take the job or lose your college course and your future. Do you agree that is an unacceptable choice for anyone to be left with?
If we're now talking about the class of women who engage in the sex trade to avoid becoming destitute, as if these women have no other options else face homelessness and hunger, you're now talking about a class of women with other psychological issues, including significant problems with drug and alcohol addiction.
:lol: What!!!! Every women/man who engages in the sex trade rather than become destitute, has psychological issues and problems with drug and alcohol addiction!!!!! Are you serious?
The problem isn't capitalism or lack of opportunity in those instances, but it's psychological disability and my guess is some form of real, actual physical coercion, like sex trafficking, pimping, or some form of domestic abuse.
Yeah, so, for example, a young person, lets say 21, who just does not get on with their parents, runs away to London. Has no psychological problems, has never drank alcohol to excess, and has no drug problems. Runs out of money in London. Phone's home and gets some help from family but is refused re-entry into the family home. "You're 21 now girl, time to make your own way in the world, you know you and your dad can't live in the same house!"
She has no money left, can't borrow any more, gets no significant help from the London authorities.
One night, a guy in a pub offers her good, steady money and a room to stay in, working at a strip club in soho. Does this story ring true to you? It's the base story of hundreds of thousands of young people all over the world. In poorer countries it's the base story of many millions of young people.
With all due respect, how out of touch are you?
Hey, work sucks; that's why they have to pay people to do it. Most jobs performed by workers are exploitative, unpleasant, tedious, uncomfortable, etc. Is it any worse to have one's hands and feet, or head, exploited rather than one's sexual aspects? C'mon, lefty; this is basic.
What part of this seems incompatible with your version of socialism, whatever that may be?
a) work sucks...?
b) most jobs are exploitative...?
c) is it any worse...?
I wish picketers would stop chanting “hey hey, ho ho, ____ has got to go.” Makes me cringe. And I’m in favor of strikes and boycotts and protests. But Jesus, get something new.
Reply to BC
Work does not suck if you love your job or you are doing your share of a necessary job, that your community needs done, due to a current technical inability to automate it. Socialism supports people having the ability, human right, and opportunity to work, in a job of their choice, from those available.
I was not exploited as a teacher, but I was underpaid and inadequately resourced to do the job I was expected to do. No exploitation was involved as I worked in a non-profit service based employment.
Socialism will always combat exploitation in the workplace. Such exploitation is rife in the sex trade.
Anyone who claims to be a socialist, should not respond to:
"The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
— universeness"
with: Quoting BC
The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands
As you would be accused of suggesting that the sex trade is not problematic and treats all of its workers fairly. The sex trade is a sex issue in humanity and it's socialist or otherwise, critics certainly are not the ones with the problem and your quip, that they have too much time on their hands is rather banal, imo.
Which tenet of socialism proposes that socialists should accept the exploitation of male or female sexuality, because its no worse than the exploitation of the head, hands or feet of any worker doing any job? :roll:
Reply to Mikie hey hey, ho ho; boring chants have got to go
So... The thing is, a good chant needs to rhyme and it needs rhythm.
Not another nickel, not another dime, wallstreet bailouts are a crime! - Good
Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh; the NLF is gonna win! - Good
Up Wth The People – Yeah, Yeah Down With the Bankers - Boom, Boom - Mediocre
U S out of Vietnam, Japan, and Okinawa - Fair, too short
Stop the escalation; end the occupation; bring the troops home - Fair, but it's missing a syllable
What do we want? Troops OUT (Peace / Justice / Stop the war) When do we want it? Now! - Tiresome
The people united, will never be defeated - Fair; over-used in the past
Two, four, six, eight; stop the murder, stop the rape - (Take Back the Night march)
I have oft been disgusted by leftists and union members who are apparently incapable of singing "Solidarity Forever", never mind the International. That's one of the problems of the decline in church attendance -- people never get to practice singing.
Work does not suck if you love your job or you are doing your share of a necessary job, that your community needs done, due to a current technical inability to automate it. Socialism supports people having the ability right, and opportunity to work, in a job of their choice, from those available.
I have had jobs that didn't suck because I was making an important contribution to the health of my community, or (different job) was helping college students learn how to learn (study). However, out of the 40 years at work, the non-sucky jobs were about 30% of the total.
No exploitation was involved as I worked in a non-profit service based employment.
All of my employment was either in non-profit or state organizations (like the University of MN). At least in the US, the modus operandi of non-profit and for-profit employers is pretty much indistinguishable. "Exploitation" isn't some exotic experience; it the ground of employment. Get the best you can for the least cost, and increase pay and benefits no more than necessary.
Anyone who is a socialist should not respond to:
"The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
— universeness"
with:
The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands
Serious socialists and levity-lacking leftists sometimes have difficulty with humor. I was being flippant. However, now that you have brought it up again...
a) I have misgivings about the whole concept of "sex work" and "sex workers". These sound like euphemisms for older terms like whores, whoring, prostitution, hookers, street walkers, out-call, etc. Granted, there are some prostitutes who claim that their activities ARE freely chosen, financially rewarding, and personally quite tolerable. I don't think most prostitutes did freely choose to sell sexual service and many of them don't make a lot of money, and don't find it 'quite tolerable'.
b) On the other hand, ordinary people's sexual activities, attitudes, obsessions, etc. are getting too much critical attention. I would prefer that people's sex lives be considered irrelevant to their ability to balance a budget, for instance, or write legislation, or write a ticket for speeding. If someone has an affair, it's their spouse's problem, not the voting public. If someone sends someone a picture of their dick, they have demonstrated questionable taste, but they shouldn't lose a job for that.
A close look at many gay men's sex lives would be kind of shocking to your basic vanilla straight type.
As you would be accused of suggesting that the sex trade is not problematic and treats all of its workers fairly. The sex trade is a sex issue in humanity.
c) and you would be jumping to conclusions. OF COURSE the sex trade fails as an equal opportunity employer; OF COURSE the sex trade fails to make it onto the list of "best places to work".
Which tenet of socialism proposes that socialists should accept the exploitation of male or female sexuality, because its no worse than the exploitation of the head, hands or feet of any worker doing any job?
d) We are talking about the system in which we live, not a fully realized socialist society. I maintain that most workers are exploited, whether they are work at Tesco, on a North Sea oil platform, or at the Royal Bank of Scotland. Sexuality is grist for the marketing mill. Practically no one can avoid that kind of manipulation.
Look, Universeness, we're on the same side. Socialists CAN disagree.
Yesterday in a WhatsApp conversation I was reaching for a reference. The reference was to Alvin and the Chipmunks but I couldn't remember it. I knew it involved a musical group of high-voiced rodents but that was it. I googled "singing hamsters" and got pages and pages of results with no mention of a famous band. I eventually realized it probably wasn't hamsters and thought about what other rodent it could be. In the end it came like a flash: chipmunks. So I googled "singing chipmunks" and got what I needed.
Yesterday in a WhatsApp conversation I was reaching for a reference. The reference was to Alvin and the Chipmunks but I couldn't remember it. I knew it involved a musical group of high-voiced rodents but that was it. I googled "singing hamsters" and got pages and pages of results with no mention of a famous band. I eventually realized it probably wasn't hamsters and thought about what other rodent it could be. In the end it came like a flash: chipmunks. So I googled "singing chipmunks" and got what I needed.
However, out of the 40 years at work, the non-sucky jobs were about 30% of the total.
In the UK, or Scotland in particular, (as that is my main experience,) I would guestimate that 30% is valid as a measure of the amount of non-profit driven services available to the people. The NHS, most of education, the welfare state, policing, local government maintenance services, social care etc. I think most people working in these sectors feel very fulfilled by the jobs they do, in comparison with those who work in jobs with the base function of creating more wealth for the owner and/or shareholders of a private company/consortium/conglomerate/familial dynasty/individual celebrity.
At least in the US, the modus operandi of non-profit and for-profit employers is pretty much indistinguishable.
What!!! how can you justify such a statement? Give me an example of the daily workings of a non-profit and a for profit group, that demonstrates that their MO is indistinguishable! Such cannot be true, even in the US. The former is people centered and the latter is profit centered, so what do you mean?
Serious socialists and levity-lacking leftists sometimes have difficulty with humor. I was being flippant. However, now that you have brought it up again...
I greatly value humour and employ it as much as I can. I like flippancy, but!!! a socialist, making flippant comments that could have came from a tory, might well get attacked by their own side, and quite right too. A socialist cosplaying a capitalist attitude, in any positive way is not good and your response to
"The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides."
with "The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands"
was not good humour imo, but you have now stated that you were just being flippant and I accept that with relief, as it could have turned out, that you were being damn serious, whilst walking around insisting to others that you represent the socialist view.
Socialists are forever trying to explain why vile human beings such as Lenin, Stalin, Hitler etc were never ever ever socialist in any non-contradictory way whatsoever and that is a very serious, no place for humour, situation. Socialism is almost a vile expletive in America, because of the lies told about its main tenets.
a) I have misgivings about the whole concept of "sex work" and "sex workers". These sound like euphemisms for older terms like whores, whoring, prostitution, hookers, street walkers, out-call, etc. Granted, there are some prostitutes who claim that their activities ARE freely chosen, financially rewarding, and personally quite tolerable. I don't think most prostitutes did freely choose to sell sexual service and many of them don't make a lot of money, and don't find it 'quite tolerable'.
I broadly agree and I mostly share your viewpoint here as opposed to the viewpoint held by folks such as @Hanover but, if we are going to accept that a sex worker can be a legitimate worker, then they deserve the full protections socialism/humanism implies.
b) On the other hand, ordinary people's sexual activities, attitudes, obsessions, etc. are getting too much critical attention. I would prefer that people's sex lives be considered irrelevant to their ability to balance a budget, for instance, or write legislation, or write a ticket for speeding. If someone has an affair, it's their spouse's problem, not the voting public. If someone sends someone a picture of their dick, they have demonstrated questionable taste, but they shouldn't lose a job for that.
Again, I broadly agree. One of my great Scottish hopes was a politician called Tommy Sheridan.
He was doing so well in Scottish politics at one point and he and his political supporters in his party 'Solidarity' were giving local people fantastic support (including my own grandfather). His party imploded and he was brought down, partly, by the claim that he visited a sex club in England.
I could not care less about Tommy's sex tastes and I think he was a great loss to the socialist movement in Scotland and that whole story was one of the main reasons for me to now advocate for non-party based politics.
c) and you would be jumping to conclusions. OF COURSE the sex trade fails as an equal opportunity employer; OF COURSE the sex trade fails to make it onto the list of "best places to work".
So, that's the situation socialists/humanists and anyone else interested, have to solve.
d) We are talking about the system in which we live, not a fully realized socialist society. I maintain that most workers are exploited, whether they are work at Tesco, on a North Sea oil platform, or at the Royal Bank of Scotland. Sexuality is grist for the marketing mill. Practically no one can avoid that kind of manipulation.
Did you notice that every one of the companies you list above are profit driven!
We certainly can tackle such manipulation, with the long term socialist tenet of:
'To secure for the workers by hand or by brain, the full fruits of their industry and control over the means
of production, distribution and exchange.'
Look, Universeness, we're on the same side. Socialists CAN disagree.
I am reassured by that statement brother BUT, I despair at the old truth about socialists.
[b]Get any 10 socialists in a room and they will all agree on the basic tenets of socialism but they will almost war with each other over how best to achieve their goals.
Get 10 capitalists in a room and you will see real harmony in action. Their only discussion is how they can further tweak their already very successful, and well established methods, of maintaining their personal wealth, influence and power and their ability to feed from the sweat and effort of the masses.[/b]
Socialists/ humanists and anyone else interested, simply have to do better in finding methodologies we can all agree on, to defeat the nefarious rich and powerful global elites.
I still fully believe socialism/humanism is inevitable as the global system employed by an eventual world government, but I do think it will still take a few further generations, to achieve it.
How many TPF members have joined 'Threads?'
What do you think of it?'
I Joined a few days ago. I had to become Universeness1 as someone else had stolen my Universeness :groan:
Actually, I now feel I am missing out as you have such a cool song to back up your handle.
I think I will ask chat GPT to make me a song about 'universeness.'
I wont ask TPF members because I don't think the words they would choose to use, would enhance my self esteem! :lol:
Edit: I just noticed the different spelling wOnderer as opposed to wAnderer, sorry! :yikes:
Reply to wonderer1
Hah! even when trump was the same age as Dion, he still had a face like an ugly wart.
He just had money and influence and sadly, the following is sometimes true, for some humans:
I still fully believe socialism/humanism is inevitable as the global system employed by an eventual world government, but I do think it will still take a few further generations, to achieve it.
In a war of attrition, the odds heavily favour the masses....
So often throw-together meals are the best. Having meal prepped salads for the next few days, I came to the alarming conclusion that I didn't need to buy a bag of both kale and spinach as I had quite a bit left over. So last night I sautéed it all down with garlic, zataar and sumac to supplement my breakfast for the week. Then this morning I found a potato in my fridge. I also realized I still had cream cheese, and bagels in the freezer. And voila, potato hash with salt/pepper, zataar and sumac, greens and (leftover) feta warmed for the last 30 seconds in the pan, toasted onion bagel with cream cheese and coffee. Best breakfast I've made all year.
So often throw-together meals are the best. Having meal prepped salads for the next few days, I came to the alarming conclusion that I didn't need to buy a bag of both kale and spinach as I had quite a bit left over. So last night I sautéed it all down with garlic, zataar and sumac to supplement my breakfast for the week. Then this morning I found a potato in my fridge. I also realized I still had cream cheese, and bagels in the freezer. And voila, potato hash with salt/pepper, zataar and sumac, greens and (leftover) feta warmed for the last 30 seconds in the pan, toasted onion bagel with cream cheese and coffee. Best breakfast I've made all year.
In a war of attrition, the odds heavily favour the masses....
Yes, real power lies with the global masses and not the nefarious elites. BUT, it has historically been proven that it is very, very difficult to organise and focus a mass of people, so that they overthrow a nefarious elite and prevent it's replacement with something almost as bad, as happened in such as the French and Russian revolutions. I think we have learned a great deal from the legacy of those who have tried and failed before. The attempts will continue imo, just like in the case of the wonderful young women in Iran today, still furious at the horrible theocracy they just cannot tolerate.
read Georgia is running out of peaches due to climate change. Maybe they can switch to bananas.
And maybe Minnesota will become the peach state.
I tried growing a peachtree, but the deer kept eating the leaves before it could grow.
We're overrun with deer. It's due to climate change in that suburban non-huntimg humans have encroached and deer live well among humans, but for the occasional car.
In the past we have discussed to what extent human babies are born with inherent cognitive abilities, including language and numbers. Here is an article describing a study that looks at those abilities in more detail.
• The infant brain processes numerical information separately from other magnitudes
• Neural encoding of approximate number is pre-attentive and automatic
• The neural code for number generalizes from auditory sequences to visual displays
The core knowledge hypothesis postulates that infants automatically analyze their environment along abstract dimensions, including numbers. According to this view, approximate numbers should be encoded quickly, pre-attentively, and in a supra-modal manner by the infant brain. Here, we directly tested this idea... The results show the emergence, in approximately 400 ms, of a decodable number representation, independent of physical parameters, that separates auditory sequences of 4 vs. 12 tones and generalizes to visual arrays of 4 vs. 12 objects. Thus, the infant brain contains a number code that transcends sensory modality, sequential or simultaneous presentation, and arousal state.
Reply to HanoverReply to Noble Dust If you two don't stop squabbling, one of you will be sent to the spider infested attic. the other to the centipede infested basement. Preferences?
Plus, there are rabid bats in the attic and poisonous snakes in the basement,
Reply to Noble Dust A girl got bitten by a rabid beaver recently in Georgia. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/07/13/rabid-beaver-georgia-lake-lanier/70412314007/
I'm going to need a more challenging current event to make a joke over. I mean come on God, really, you think you throw a rabid beaver at me just to make me make some obvious joke?
Someone who lies and someone who tells the truth are playing on opposite sides, so to speak, in the same game. Each responds to the facts as he understands them, although the response of the one is guided by the authority of the truth, while the response of the other defies that authority and refuses to meet its demands. The bullshitter ignores these demands altogether. He does not reject the authority of the truth, as the liar does, and oppose himself to it. He pays no attention to it at all. By virtue of this, bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are.
When a chicken pecks you, it's trying to eat you, but it can't, but it would if it could. If you cut a hole in some plexiglass for your chicken to enter in and out of, it will bump into the plexiglass over and and over, just inches from the hole, so you have to put some rocks or something around the hole so that it will see the hole and not bump into it for eternity. You'd think they'd learn.
I feel like getting rabies would be an adventure. It would certainly make a damn good story.
My son's girlfriend got bitten by a cat and she had to start a round of rabies shots, but then they found the cat and determined it not rabid, so she didn't have to keep getting the shots. I filed a claim against the cat owner for her and the cat owner's insurance company paid for the medical bills. I'm one of the leading cat lawyers in all of America.
If you get bitten by a radioactive cat, you'll start wearing super tight bodysuits and you'll become evil, yet be devilishly sexy.
True story.
A sign you have rabies and are going to die pretty soon is that you get really thirsty, but when you encounter water, you start having spasms. It's called aquaphobia. You can look that up on youtube.
By looking at a chicken’s tiny head, it’s safe to say that chickens have small brains. The size of a chicken brain is said to be a tad bigger than its eyeball. Depending on the chicken’s age and size, the brain size may vary between a peanut and a lima bean.
Reply to jorndoe I can't remember what I thought at that age either. Until fairly recently, I thought that brussels sprouts were little cabbages that grew in rows in the dirt, just like big cabbages. I was shocked and appalled to discover that they grow like parasites on one's arm, horrible alien appendages.
This is a good example of social science 'research' which might not pass close scrutiny.
Where was this 'research' done? How was it done? How well do "children in general" differentiate animal and plant foods? What was the objective?
The researchers had a concern about the ethics of eating animals. ""Most children in the United States [...] eat animal products, but unlike adults who have built up an arsenal of strategies to justify the consumption of animals, children appear to be naïve meat eaters," the team wrote in their discussion."
I don't have "an arsenal of strategies" to justify eating meat. I like meat. The raison d'être of a pig is to become a pork chop. A cow is destined to produce milk, and makes a fine roast, as well. As for a plant based diet, cows, pigs, chickens, and lambs all eat a plant based diet. Close enough.
Reply to BC Modern day kids know exactly where food comes from. It's the supermarket, which is really all they need to know at that age. Eventually they'll learn from their parents how to harvest it with a credit card.
Farm kids, what few there are left, have no confusion where chicken comes from, and my guess is they eat it without hesitation and not naively, as if the only reason they were carnivores was because they thought chicken was picked off a bush.
I gave in to my lower nature and bought a bag of Goldfish crackers today, which I had been thinking about doing for awhile. I was psyched to try them again after all these years. They're very underwhelming. Lesson learned.
Reply to Noble Dust I am terribly sorry that your recent purchase of Goldfish turned out to be a lackluster experience. One expects a lot of Pepperidge Farm. Maybe a Pepperidge Farm cookie would cleanse the bitter taste of disappointment from your mouth.
On Wednesday I bought a bag of Lund's & Byerly's store brand potato chips -- my favorite -- which I hadn't had for... 10 years, at least.
They were terrific. Still the same perfect combo of potato, salt, oil, and crunch.
if I wait another 10 years to buy another bag I'll likely have been dead for some time.
C. A premium brand of ice cream sandwich--made available immediately without a request.
When one wakes up in a foul mood, the blankie is too warm or smells bad; the song might be gangsta rap or heavy metal screaming; the blow job requires too much focus.
Häagen-Dazs and Ben & Jerry's have both abandoned the delusion that anyone in America considers 1/4 cup of ice cream a "serving". Häagen-Dazs recognizes that there are only 2.5 (more like 2) servings per pint container. B & J are playing games with the "3 servings" per container.
Häagen-Dazs is owned by General Mills; Ben & Jerry's is owned by Unilever.
Häagen-Dazs is owned by General Mills; Ben & Jerry's is owned by Unilever.
Häagen-Dazs was invented by a Jewish guy in New York in the 1960s. He used a Danish name to make it sound exotic.
Ben and Jerry are Jewish too.
Baskin Robbins, you guessed it, Jewish too.
Moses, while in the desert for 40 years, got hot as shit, so he invented ice cream, and so that's why the continued Jewish dominance. . The milk was from the elusive red heifer.
He called it Moshe's Desert Dessert. His top selling flavors were matzoh, manna, and of course camel shit rocky road.
No, it was NOT. However illusive the red heifers might be, they are virgin cows, so they don't give milk. Cows don't produce milk until they have been properly fucked and birthed a calf to feed.
Otherwise, your story about how Jews came to dominant the ice cream industry is as plausible as any of your other stories. On the other hand, Yahweh was clearly in favor of the Israeli ice cream business, since the intended territory was the land of milk and honey, as opposed to the land of sand and oil.
No, it was NOT. However illusive the red heifers might be, they are virgin cows, so they don't give milk. Cows do not produce milk until they have been properly fucked and birthed a calf to feed.
The red heifers were Irish and were very fond of Bailey's Irish Cream, especially with coffee. They'd get randy after a few cups, lie on their backs, spread their split hoof, and try to entice a bull. The bulls would have nothing to do with them, calling them gingers and laughing at them.
This caused Yahweh to do things: (1) give them a red nose to light his way, and (2) to divine inject them so they'd provide a virgin birth. The latter allowed for ice cream production.
Some years later Mary would copy this process, first giving birth to a little lamb, and next to Jesus of Nazareth, but from Bethlehem. That part confuses me.
I gave in to my lower nature and bought a bag of Goldfish crackers today, which I had been thinking about doing for awhile. I was psyched to try them again after all these years. They're very underwhelming.
I like goldfish, but if you were expecting some kind of epiphany, you probably went to the wrong cracker. Goldfish, like Cheerios, are great for babies. I like Cheerios too.
Florida's new Black history curriculum says "slaves developed skills" that could be used for "personal benefit"
Florida's 2023 Social Studies curriculum will include lessons on how "slaves developed skills" that could be used for "personal benefit," according to a copy of the state's academic standards reviewed by CBS News.
Translation - The State of Florida has identified some slaves who were not beaten, tortured, raped, and worked to death.
Reply to jorndoe @ 1.45 per kg of stainless steel, the factory cost could be around $52. Factory cost is, rule of thumb, roughly 10% of retail price -- so, if it's not on sale this irresistible tool will cost around $520 for early adopters. I would expect this item to move from top shelf to clearance quickly, given that most kitchen counters already have no vacant space -- what with the crumby toaster, microwave, coffee maker, electric can opener, knife sharpener, air fryer, hot pot, greasy old electric frying pan), and 28 assorted objects that belong in the cabinet, but are a) too much trouble to put away, b) get lost in the cabinet, c) don't fit in the cabinet because the cabinets are full.
There's always the floor.
Metaphysician UndercoverJuly 24, 2023 at 02:24#8241990 likes
I would expect this item to move from top shelf to clearance quickly, given that most kitchen counters already have no vacant space -- what with the crumby toaster, microwave, coffee maker, electric can opener, knife sharpener, air fryer, hot pot, greasy old electric frying pan), and 28 assorted objects that belong in the cabinet, but are a) too much trouble to put away, b) get lost in the cabinet, c) don't fit in the cabinet because the cabinets are full.
You paint a vivid and unpleasant picture. It's for that reason I've owned no electrical appliances at all for 20 years - no toaster, microwave, coffee makers, blenders, kettles, etc...
Reply to Tom Storm I'm sorry to hear that you were deprived of a kitchen counter on which to place a used toaster from the charity store.
Perhaps I should inquire further. Do you have a kitchen?
Aside to self: How does this guy live? No toast? No smoothies? No quick warm up? No soup (no kettle)? Perhaps he lives in a monastery. Ot s cell block? Or perhaps he is a modern day Diogenes and lives in a cardboard box, and in broad daylight shines a flashlight on possibly honest men?
It's for that reason I've owned no electrical appliances at all for 20 years - no toaster, microwave, coffee makers, blenders, kettles, etc...
:grin: So are you forever 'borrowing' other peoples electrical devices to post on TPF?
Get your own ya cheapskate! Stop stealing power and borrowing electrical equipment to type on TPF during the time you are supposed to be doing paid work! (only if that's what you are doing, of-course :halo: )
I don't like things on my counter, so I keep them stored away until I use them. The only exception is the coffee maker, which my wife uses daily, so that is the exception. She may or may not notice, but I always push it close to the wall to keep it as out of the way as much as possible.
I have a crock pot that looks like it was from the 1970s. I got it at a thrift store. I bought it after my divorce because my ex apparently wished to spend some time crocking now that she was free. It wasn't that I couldn't afford a brand new one, but it seemed like a practical solution and it allowed me to feel a certain amount of suffering in that I was now relegated to someone else's old crock pot that once cooked another family's stews and whatnot.
I now keep it as a sentimental momento, remembering the days I used it to slow cook sadness into that succulent chicken that would fall right off the bone. I do think it might catch on fire one day.
Reply to javi2541997 Actually, I did care enough to follow the results on the BBC World Service. Hey, us old folks remember when fascist Franco ran Spain until 1975 (started in '39), and fascist Salazar next door in Portugal.
¿Do you think it will be necessary to call another election to get a clear winner (one with enough seats to form a government) and who, one hopes, will not be a crypto fascist of some sort?
Scammers can create fake footage, the real thing can be called fake, communication becomes polluted + diluted.
In computing, authentication is an old topic, but may not translate easily in general.
¿Do you think it will be necessary to call another election to get a clear winner (one with enough seats to form a government) and who, one hopes, will not be a crypto fascist of some sort?
I think it will not be necessary. It seems that Pedro Sanchez will repeat the same government, he even admitted that his team is negotiating with the political forces of Catalonia and Basque country. They believe that a new social democratic legislature is possible.
VOX decreased dramatically. They do not have chances of anything. 33 seats are pure trash.
Despite the fact that it is coloured blue, you can see that in Catalonia, Navarre and Basque Country the conservatives and VOX didn't get any important seats or representation. Madrid, Andalucía and Valencia provided good results but not really enough in arithmetic.
Note: It is not relevant to get seats in Galicia or Castille because only a few Spaniards live there and the proportion is small compared to Madrid and the nationalists/separatists.
This was filmed 7 days ago in Vancouver Canada.
WTF is going on! How can any city in a so called 1st world country allow this?
It's not acceptable in any city in any country.
This would bring a tear to a glass eye!!!
If you mean poverty, I'm against it, of course but haven't figured out how to eliminate (as no one else has). If you mean the recent explosion of homelessness everyone agrees in turning back the clock to the previous era when it was rare, but there is a robust debate on which variables to change to accomplish this universally accepted goal.
everyone agrees in turning back the clock to the previous era when it was rare
So your response to the video, was to contact 'everyone,' and gain the consensus that 'time travel' to a previous era was the best solution to the problems depicted in the video.
What evidence do you have for this 'robust debate' that's going on?
Is 'everyone' taking part?
While some think homelessness is terrible, I think it's worse than terrible, and those who only think it terrible are super terrible. However you might think you express its terribleness, unless you think it as terrible as me, you are really terrible.
1) housing is unaffordable. Vancouver, San Francisco, Los Angeles (well, California as a whole), New York City, and some others are very expensive, even for successful, fully functioning people.
2) drug addiction and alcohol are factors that are somewhat independent of the cost of housing. So, one can have homelessness and derelicts on the street, even if housing is affordable.
3) personal agency is a small factor; some people can not bring themselves to live in a homeless shelter which means submitting to a set of rules--or they have become persona non grata in the available shelters.
This is a very difficult problem to solve.
a) I don't know about BC, but California is an extraordinarily difficult state in which to solve homelessness or mere unaffordability for working class people. You've heard of NIMBY; one housing expert in CA said it's more like BANANA: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody. It's very easy in CA to stop even middle-class housing projects that another group think infringes on their rights or environment.
b. The success rate in 'curing' alcohol and drug addiction is not all that high. Couple MI with CD + high living costs and what you have is a population of totally screwed people. Laws requiring "the least restrictive treatment" make it difficult for the state to force people into treatment.
c. Tolerance of public drug or alcohol inebriation and homelessness is a losing strategy. The state may not have the means to easily resolve the problem, but not solving it makes things worse.
Do you think a good quality home to live in, should be a human right, from cradle to grave?
What you are proposing is a post-revolutionary goal.
It doesn't make sense to ask about good housing as a right when the present welfare system operates on the principle of "not enough to live on, but a little too much to die".
Reply to BC I think you're right. And much of what you say is true here even though we have a welfare safety net of sorts and largely free or subsidized healthcare.
Reply to universeness We have small pockets like this in Melbourne, Australia. I am on a interagency, government work group to better understand and address rough sleeping in my city. It's not hard to understand that prohibition and interdiction of illicit dugs is a key cause of homelessness, along with factors such as unaffordable housing, mental ill health, trauma and intergenerational disadvantage. Some solutions - affordable housing, access to support and mental health services, decriminalizing of substances, enhanced treatment programs, meaningful jobs and activities. I think they can safely call this one a wicked problem.
Reply to BCReply to Tom Storm
I don't deny the complexities of the problems involved and the connections between homelessness/substance abuse etc. But to me, you are both focussing on how hard it is to find cures for situations such as depicted in the video I posted, rather than prevention.
Here are some actions I would take if I had the power:
I would not allow a town/city to be built around privately owned companies such as coal/oil/textiles etc (like textiles in Kensington, Philly) and then when those companies pull out of the area, taking all the profits with them, with no penalties at all, imposed on them, the lives of the people dependent on them, fall apart.
I would create a social welfare fund that makes social deprivation, the responsibility of those who generate profit. Any company that creates social problems due to them leaving an area becomes liable to pay to help fix the problems they created. All profits of all major companies must pay to prevent social deprivation. The more that exits that they caused, the more they must pay.
Today, in the UK, British Gas reported a profit of £1 billion (compared to £93 million for the same period last year) during a cost of fuel crisis. This profit caused a lot of misery and deprivation for many people in the UK. This situation must be prevented in the future, as situations, like what's happening in Vancouver Canada, is the direct result. I would impose a profit tax on British Gas, take 90% of those profits made during a fuel crisis and use that money to prevent any of their customers becoming destitute or losing their homes etc.
I would hold families like the Secklers in the USA, to account, far quicker than is happening at present.
There are many many other controls/responsibilities I would lay on those who live of the workers via the money trick, but basically, I think the focus is all wrong. The solutions lie with proper control over the excesses of capitalism, not with trying to cure the fallout from such. I am not suggesting that this will end all social deprivation and substance abuse issues, but it would remove 90% of it from our civilisation imo.
Oh, you've made me enter the Shoutbox. Not fair!
Lovely to receive a welcome back but I'm not around for long. Popping in and out seems to be my pattern these days. Good to see you too :flower:
But to me, you are both focussing on how hard it is to find cures for situations such as depicted in the video I posted, rather than prevention.
Of course. That's what I was answering, not the issue of prevention. That's because I work in an area which attempts to address the problems - some say it's like the ambulance parked at the bottom of the cliff. I agree with you that the cause of the problem is largely a by-product of how society is structured and how resources are allocated.
I wish you will stay until the next week, when the literary activity starts, and I remember that you were a good commentator in the stories
I remember the good times too. Unfortunately, this time around my brain ain't quite whot it used to be.
Also, I have 4 books to read before the start of the FutureLearn 'How to Read a Novel' course.
Starting on 7th August, it overlaps with the Literary Activity.
1. Bitter Orange Tree by Jokha Alharthi, translated from Arabic by Marilyn Booth
2. Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
3. Bolla by Pajtim Statovci, translated from Finnish by David Hackston
4. After Sappho by Selby Wynn Schwartz.
Good luck to all with your entries :sparkle:
Edit - sorry, I forgot it's no longer a Competition, right?!
Anyway, I'll try and read and leave some kind of a mark of appreciation... :smile:
god must be atheistJuly 27, 2023 at 10:45#8249320 likes
The homelessness problem is complex, and its sufferers are not a homogeneous group. Like others said, homelessness range from causes like mental illness, low IQ, drug and alcohol abuse, and the combination of those, referred to commonly as "co-morbidity". There are the homeless who have jobs, no drug problem, no alcohol, but can't afford rent payments. Rooming houses are controlled by the cities, and the system made it impossible or difficult to rent rooms at a large profit. Hence, fewer rooms are available. House prices are going through the roof, and apartments rent for nearly double compared to pre-covid.
The problem is not only the divide and the widening gap between the rich and the poor, although undeniably that is a problem for our social well being as a society. The problem is also the overpopulation. Lots of investment firms invest in condominiums and other real estate; some private individuals too. That drove up the prices. But the prices doubled and tripled and quadrupled in the last ten years because more and more people need homes, because there are more and more people in the world. China doubled its population in the last 60 years. So did India. That alone is nearly an additional billion people in the world, who all want a place to live. Many Islamic countries are producing babies, due to the dictates of their religions. Practically the only places where there is no population growth by local births, are North America, Australia and Europe. Everywhere else it's a baby-factory in overproduction.
Reply to god must be atheist
All fair comments but there are also issues such as, there are currently 288,539 empty houses in the UK, and these are all habitable properties, or at least are claimed to be. Many are owned by rich people who don't live in the UK but simply put some of there money in property, as they consider that to be more secure than putting all their money in the banks of the countries they do live in. Many don't want to earn rent from these properties, as they would have to declare such as earnings, and that does not suit their purpose.
the activity is there to improve our creativity skills. I think it is worthy to take part in the entries.
Yes. It is a most worthwhile endeavour in itself and in relation to philosophy.
A close reading of such can raise the imagination, sense of empathy, and question all kinds of human nature. Characters can reveal the mind and its motives. The mutual engagement awesome.
Yes, they look easier than they are. They encapsulate a moment in time. A special awareness.
Saying less can be saying more. I look forward to being moved by the mood and imagery :sparkle:
Edit: a haiku can also be folded into a story... :wink:
A travel diary or dialogue...hmmm...a travelogue!
Reply to T Clark Intergenerational disadvantage labels the inheritance of poverty. It's certainly not a new phenomenon. This term first appeared in print in 1970 but its usage accelerated rapidly starting in 2000 (according to Ingram Viewer). The term is part of the 'culture of poverty' concept (first print appearance in 1970).
It's a straight-forward concept. Poverty, experienced over successive generations, produces (mal)adaptions which tends to perpetuate poverty: low-quality nutrition, counter-productive child-rearing practices, low aspirations, little planning beyond the immediate future, poor literacy, poor school performance, etc. In other words, the culturally poor get culturally poorer. It takes several generations to produce.
Drug use or alcoholism are not necessarily involved in the production or maintenance of the CoP. Homelessness might happen to the multigenerational poor, but it's not a given. They might not be living at all well, but they have adapted. They are likely to have shorter and less pleasant life spans than average, but reproduce soon enough to launch another generation.
Is multigenerational disadvantage an inevitable, inescapable dead end? No, but it's difficult to escape without outside help. Bootstrapping mostly doesn't work.
If you want to read more--much more--about this, check out A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne.
Reply to Tom Storm So, what does the[i] interagency, government work group to better understand and address rough sleeping in my city[/I] plan on doing about it? Do you have actual funds to apply to the problem? Does the work group have any force of law behind it--I mean, can it compile anyone to do anything? What (besides a perfectly respectable report) do you expect will come out of it?
I haven't heard this term before. Does it mean childhood abuse or neglect?
Often, but it means that the person you are working with probably had parents and even grandparents who were also poor and dealing with trauma and disadvantage/mental illness/substance use, unemployment. No one can look back at a time when they had family members who held down jobs and lived a more stable, comfortable and dare I say 'conventional ' life.
Addendum - I should add that it is often easier to assist someone who has a personal history of some stability and comparative happiness. They can imagine being this way again and might work towards such a goal with some level of experience and anticipation. For someone with intergenerational experiences of poverty and disadvantage, it is often hard for them to imagine life ever being different or better.
?Tom Storm So, what does the interagency, government work group to better understand and address rough sleeping in my city plan on doing about it?
Too much for The Shoutbox but it's essentially about ensuring services and government collaborate effectively, allocate resources and identify each person rough sleeping, with their history and then match accommodation and supports to their specific needs. Once housed, a person requires tailored, ongoing support to sustain their tenancy. We make sure that specific responses are initiated and followed up and maintained through working through a list of around 100 rough sleepers at a time. What we have learned is that people need to have robust input into their case plans and housing choices and that keeping someone housed after they get a property is often more challenging than finding accommodation. There are a range of learnings in that area too. It requires outreach work, a relationship based approach, shared information, wrap around services, peer support work and resourcing.
Reply to Hanover Thank you--I AM having a difficult Tish'a B'Av, as it were. You all should sue the Roman Empire, and its various successors. These days, everyone is suing for something -- old fondling, coal burning, temple wrecking, and what not.
Let's see, there's the Roman Catholic Church and it's various dissenters; Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Austria, Britain and its empire properties (India, East Africa, South Africa, Ireland, North America, etc.), Rumania, the Balkan countries, Bulgaria, Turkey, Syria, Egypt...
I should think with penalties, damages, and 2000 years of interest, you should get enough to rebuild the whole city of Jerusalem in period design. I'm pretty sure nobody will mind. I mean, one more temple in Jerusalem. Big deal. Why would anybody object?
Reply to Hanover Oh, the event incudes the destruction of the first temple too, by Nebuchadnezzar. Good News! Some of the successor Mideast oil states are on the hook too. Might as well include all of them -- Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Kuwait, the gulf states... Isn't there some way of implicating China? Well, everybody?
Reply to BC Yeah, well, you have no idea what it's like to have no altar to sacrifice animals on. I've been using makeshift altars made of garbage cans and chicken wire and Yahweh's been none too happy.
Reply to Hanover Yahweh likes the single, very thick, very large, wooden plank. No joining. Oak would be good. You'll have to special order the tree and have the plank specially cut, cured, and finished.
How have you been preparing the fatted calf for sacrifice? Are you assuring it of the great honor of being disemboweled on a big plank and then put on the fire, maybe not quite dead yet?
Reply to BC So I'm building a third temple. I went to the Jerusalem Home Depot and bought all the shit, including the gold inlay pieces, cherubs, purple velvet, a fantastic glittery boa, and the Urim and the Thummim.
I was going to rent one of the $19.99 trucks to haul it all to the temple mount, but my credit card got rejected.
Reply to frank Most modern day Assyrians live in the US. I looked this up to be sure you weren't on to something. There are only about 1,000 in Israel.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people
I mean thanks for looking out for me, but I think you've got some bad Intel. I'm thinking I might piss off another group of folks if I start hammering away at the Temple Mound
All of you cucumber lovers will be relieved to learn that today, because of the 95 degree weather in NYC, I went to one of my favorite cheap eat spots in Chinatown, which is literally called Tasty Dumpling, and got two orders of dumplings and an order of “spicy cucumber”, which is just chunks of cucumber seasoned with a rather mild chili oil situation. Perfect for beating the heat; delicious.
Reply to BC I would say that because there software is capable of so much more complexity, ironically they chose what could be a hand drawn little boat.
In lookiing over that ancient writing, it appears that the letter F played a dominant role. Perhaps the speakers had no tongue and could only make the F sound with their lips and teeth. I suspect they looked like rabbits with extended front teeth. Over time, as carrots became more common in the diet, those teeth would have become worn down, allowing for a variety of other sounds.
Reply to T Clark Infection with Naegleria fowleri is fatal in 97% of cases and death may ensue within 1 to 5 days. The good news is that Florida is one of the states with a lot of very warm fresh water which Naegleria fowleri likes, and that is where both DeSantis and Trump live.
The bad news is that Trump has been infected for years, has lost his brain/mind, and is popular among MAGA zombies.
I did. Stirred it into to my scrambled eggs. I tasted their thoughts, which were purely bitter, still unhappy about having their brains made part of my omelet.
Do you believe in angels? About 7 in 10 U.S. adults do
American’s belief in angels (69%) is about on par with belief in heaven and the power of prayer, but bested by belief in God or a higher power (79%). Fewer U.S. adults believe in the devil or Satan (56%), astrology (34%), reincarnation (34%), and that physical things can have spiritual energies, such as plants, rivers or crystals (42%).
Among Trump voters, 40% say he “definitely” won and another 36% say he “probably” won the election. Only 7% of Trump voters concede that Biden definitely won the 2020 election, while another 15% say he probably won. Biden voters nearly unanimously believe their candidate won.
Among Trump voters, 40% say he “definitely” won and another 36% say he “probably” won the election. Only 7% of Trump voters concede that Biden definitely won the 2020 election, while another 15% say he probably won. Biden voters nearly unanimously believe their candidate won.
I think a lot of people are ok dwelling in a fantasy zone. They're comfortable there. Why boost them out of it? If you do, you'll just have to shoot them with one of those elephant sedation guns. Just leave them alone. They're not hurting anybody.
Only 7% of Trump voters concede that Biden definitely won the 2020 election,
The problem with this wording is that it's likely that many who don't believe Trump won still refuse to concede he lost. Trump is a good example of someone like that.
The problem with this wording is that it's likely that many who don't believe Trump won still refuse to concede he lost. Trump is a good example of someone like that.
Should we explain to them about justified true belief?
Should we explain to them about justified true belief?
Not conceding isn't the result of not knowing the truth, but it's the result of whatever else they think they can gain by pretending the truth is different.
The more unfortunate truth is that as absurb as Trump's behavior has been, he is positioned right now as either the most likely or second most likely person in all the country to be the next president of the US. He's got a sixth sense of what it takes to be a leader to a certain type of person.
The New York Times announced Trump's latest (!) inditement in an edge to edge two line headline
TRUMP INDICTED IN PUSH
TO OVERTURN ELECTION
So, one annoying issue about the charges is that "indict" arrived in modern English through two routes and its pronunciation changed in the 1600s, so one finds it spelled inconsistently. In the 16th - 17th century, indict also meant "to write" or "to state" as in this Coronation Hymn by G. F. Handel.
My heart is inditing of a good matter:
I speak of the things which I have made unto the King.
...
So, one annoying issue about the charges is that "indict" arrived in modern English through two routes and its pronunciation changed in the 1600s, so one finds it spelled inconsistently. In the 16th - 17th century, indict also meant "to write" or "to state" as in this Coronation Hymn by G. F. Handel.
My heart is inditing of a good matter:
I speak of the things which I have made unto the King.
That's one annoying issue about the charges, yes. :lol:
Reply to frank A less annoying word, one with a consistent spelling, is "convicted". Nice word when connected with Trump. "Prison" has a nice ring too.
In the good old days (like, 16th / 17th century) they hanged bread thieves. If shoplifting a loaf of 100% Whole Grain deserved hanging, how much more does Donald's manifest sins and wickednesses deserve? Hanging will probably not be the punishment of choice
Fortunately, our country has some terrible prisons, usually run by southern states. The sentencing judge can shop around and find a really wretched, hot, vermin-infested, brutal cell block and send the former President there for a spell.
Reply to BC
Did you know Trump wouldn't be the first American to run for president from prison? Check this out.
So imagine Trump is a socialist who's been convicted of sedition for telling people not to join the military, and he's running for president from prison. Wouldn't you vote for him?
Not conceding isn't the result of not knowing the truth, but it's the result of whatever else they think they can gain by pretending the truth is different.
Yes. I remember thinking back in the early 2000s, while listening to Bush's justifications for the Iraq war, that "truth" is just another word for what you can convince people of. Bush was bush league (sorry). Trump is the majors.
Reply to frank Yes, I absolutely would vote for Eugene Debs, even if--or especially if--he was in prison for being against WWI and the draft.
Their case is not equivalent. He was sent to prison at the end of June, 1918, 5 months before the war ended. He was charged with sedition based on a speech he made earlier in June. He hadn't been investigated for election fraud, slander, tampering with the election process, paying hush money, hiding state secrets, or coordinating a direct attack on the Congress. Trump is a one man crime wave.
The US organized a Red Scare, already underway before the end of the WWI, responding to the Bolshevik Revolution, anarchist radical politics, labor unrest, etc. the First Red Scare resulted in the seizure of over 4,000 accused radicals, thousands of deportations, and multiple raids organized by the US government.
The US organized a Red Scare, already underway before the end of the WWI, responding to the Bolshevik Revolution, anarchist radical politics, labor unrest, etc. the First Red Scare resulted in the seizure of over 4,000 accused radicals, thousands of deportations, and multiple raids organized by the US government.
I didn't realize that. I know communism and similar groups were popular back then, especially in the Southeast.
The more unfortunate truth is that as absurb as Trump's behavior has been, he is positioned right now as either the most likely or second most likely person in all the country to be the next president of the US. He's got a sixth sense of what it takes to be a leader to a certain type of person.
I recently went to Great Clips. A haircut is now $18.99, which by itself is ridiculous. The automatic tip options when I paid were not percentage based, but it just gave the options of $5, $6, and $7, or you could give a custom tip. The lowest option was 26%.
This whole tipping thing is reaching its tipping point for me.
The only thing keeping me from completely going off is that I just look so crazy handsome now with each hair perfectly placed. But if not for that, things would be getting real like real fast.
A haircut is now $18.99, which by itself is ridiculous.
I used to go to Duke's barber and smoke shop in my home town. $1.00. Then my father discovered a place down the road that gave kids haircuts for $0.50, so we started going there. Two choices - buzz cut or butch, which was a buzz cut with a little bit of hair in the front you could make stand up with butch wax. I always got a buzz cut.
As for tipping. I figure I have a lot more money than anyone who gets tipped. Service is a crappy job. I don't feel resentful about tipping.
So is your issue inflation, the concept of tipping or computerized auto tipping?
My opposition is not to tipping generally, but it's to the continual increase that has occurred in what is considered a standard tip. 15% was standard when I was a kid and then it crept to 18%, then to 20% and now generally 22%. The tip options indicated on the credit card machine steer you to higher and higher amounts, with my last example being 26% as the lowest option.
The tip is no longer optional either, not that I ever truly stiffed anyone, but it was supposed to at one point reflect the service you received so that top performers would make more than than those who did the minimum. Now it is fully expected, so why not just put it in the price as opposed to pretending that it acts as an incentive?
And by the way, I'm a very generous tipper. I'm just feel guilted into paying for something I shouldn't be paying for or that should be done a different way.
Reply to Hanover Reports have it that the various automatic tipping schemes divert some of the inflated tip to the owner, rather than the 100% of the tip going to the worker. Perhaps tipping is again a situation where handing the service worker a cash tip is a better option.
Seems to me that there are several forces at work. First as younger folks don't learn about the role of tipping, legit tips decrease (the percentage of those who tip 0%) so the "standard" went from 15 to 20% to make up the difference. Second, real wages have dipped generationally, which leads to the same incentive
Lastly upstart apps like Square put the tip
"option" on any transaction as they are paid a percentage of the total bill.
Lastly upstart apps like Square put the tip " option" on any transaction...
I think the fact that so many arbitrary businesses now expect tips may end up undermining the practice, even for legitimate service-based businesses. You are probably right that it is related to the software.
I don't want you to jeopardize your anonymity here on the forum, but have you been asked to join the Trump team there in Georgia. Just based on your posts on the Shoutbox, I think you'd be a perfect fit.
From a functional point of view, waitstaff have lower than minimum wage hourly salaries in anticipation of tip income. Counter staff and retail staff get at least minimum wage.
For some reason the idea of horses coming from a specific location has always been wild to me. It shouldn't be, but it is. It's crazy to think that at one point in the past (pre-history?) horses weren't domesticated. Trying to imagine that process is also a mind bender.
It's crazy to think that at one point in the past (pre-history?) horses weren't domesticated. Trying to imagine that process is also a mind bender.
It's even more of a mind bender to think of all the domesticated species which never existed as undomesticated. How did they come into existence? The history of corn, for example, is amaizing.
It's even more of a mind bender to think of all the domesticated species which never existed as undomesticated. How did they come into existence? The history of corn, for example, is amaizing
How? Through interbreeding. While true that certain plants, like corn don't have a true single undomesticated "parent" species, they have two (superficially unlike) parents.
Reply to T Clark Zebras are too skittish; too quick to attack. That sort of thing is great for keeping zebras alive -- not so good if you are trying to domesticate them. Horses have a calmer native disposition.
Water buffalo were domesticated; bison, on the other hand, have too many behavior traits that make them unmanageable. Ask people who were gored by bison in Yellowstone National Park.
Plant breeding is often quite tricky. If you plant the seed from an apple that was just terrific, its progeny might be perfectly awful. Why? Because the tree produces the apple; its genes rule the apple. The seed, on the other hand, comes from the blossoms and that shakes up the gene pool.
Apple trees in orchards are usually grafted onto root stock.
How do you get new apple varieties? Through pollination. Breeders can leave it to the bees, and see what happens. Or do hand pollination every spring from desirable apple varieties.
The Malinda Apple is the parent, grandparent, or great grandparent of the Chestnut Crab, Folwell, Haralson, Beacon, Honeygold, Honeycrisp, Keepsake, Minnehaha, MN 1606, and Sweet Sixteen. Malinda originated in New England, but Haralson, Beacon, Honeycrisp, Keepsake, and MN 166 were bred by the University of Minnesota to be hardy in growing zone 3 and 4.
How? Through interbreeding. While true that certain plants, like corn don't have a true single undomesticated "parent" species, they have two (superficially unlike) parents.
Simple breeding does not cause a new species, because this requires genetic modifications, manipulation, or plain old mutations. Dogs are an interesting example. As a species they are very prone to genetic mutations, this has facilitated the production of many different breeds. So not only do specific features which result from genetic mutations get selected for, to produce desirable breeds, but the propensity for genetic mutations itself has been selected for, to enable the capacity to produce many different breeds.
New genes (can) lead to physical differences, which humans find desirable. Whether that "new" (to the species of interest) gene comes from a mutation or borrowed from a different species (through interbreeding), it ultimately doesn't matter.
Reply to LuckyR Of course, the "other" species has to be closely related. Two closely related species, like donkeys and horses, can interbreed, but the progeny (called a 'hybrid' is usually sterile -- like mules.
Humans and chimps are closely related, but (thank god) not quite closely enough -- so no mating there. On the other hand, Neanderthals and Homo sapiens were closely enough related that we could mate--and did.
Metaphysician UndercoverAugust 06, 2023 at 11:52#8275240 likes
Whether that "new" (to the species of interest) gene comes from a mutation or borrowed from a different species (through interbreeding), it ultimately doesn't matter.
In the strict sense, different species do not interbreed, as BC pointed out. I think that's actually what defines a "species", reproductive boundaries.
That itself, is another very interesting topic. What shapes, forms, and initiates the reproductive boundaries. As individuals, we all display sexual preferences, the types we are attracted to, and these preferences are very important in Darwinian evolutionary theory, as required for sustaining any particular variation. But at what point in the evolutionary process, and how does it occur, that a boundary gets crossed, and the selection of a reproductive partner goes beyond being a matter of choice, to become a matter of physical impossibility, such that the sustained variation is then a newly evolved species?
god must be atheistAugust 06, 2023 at 12:50#8275330 likes
I think you're showing your anglophone bias. That's really an inverted question mark, which shows that God is Spanish.
The question mark is not inverted. It is converted. Therefore the old Testament's claim stays: God is Jewish.
That's A. B. is that if you move your focus from the Great Questionmark in the sky, you will see a face, the next large constellation, that to my consternation looks like the archetypal depictor of the devil. Satan. So hell is not in the bowels of the Earth, hell resides upstairs.
This has great implicit teleologically theoretic theological implications. It means, at least to me, that God has forgiven all sinners, Hell got closed down, and now everyone dwells well on the right of the Lord.
Of course, the "other" species has to be closely related. Two closely related species, like donkeys and horses, can interbreed, but the progeny (called a 'hybrid' is usually sterile -- like mules
You're correct though I didn't provide enough detail. The corn example has a circuitous route to the modern genetics. Namely, the first parent species (a Mexican grass) begot the second subspecies (a form of maize) and interbreeding between the two (subspecies) lead to modern corn.
Metaphysician UndercoverAugust 07, 2023 at 00:58#8277150 likes
Reply to LuckyR
Now, back to the dogs. DNA analysis has shown that wolves, coyotes, and dogs all interbreed. So I would think that in reality, these are all one species, and we just didn't know this until we got the DNA analysis. Or is it the case that "a species" (that's a strange word, why is "a species" plural?) is incorrectly defined through reproductive limitations?
Now, back to the dogs. DNA analysis has shown that wolves, coyotes, and dogs all interbreed. So I would think that in reality, these are all one species, and we just didn't know this until we got the DNA analysis. Or is it the case that "a species" (that's a strange word, why is "a species" plural?) is incorrectly defined through reproductive limitations?
It's crazy to think that at one point in the past (pre-history?) horses weren't domesticated.
This will really blow your mind: there still exist wild horses today! :starstruck:
I know this for certain, because I saw it in a movie once. In Legends of the Fall Susannah Fincannon (Julia Ormond) falls in love with Tristan Ludlow (Brad Pitt), the wild Cree-raised cowboy. She falls in love—naturally—when she sees him "Bronc riding" and taming a wild mare that he caught.
This will really blow your mind: there still exist wild horses today! :starstruck:
For what it's worth, all the wild horses in the western hemisphere are feral, i.e. they are the descendants of domesticated horses that escaped. There may still be wild, never-domesticated horses in Central Asia, I don't know. As I noted, there are quite a few species of wild, undomesticated equines in the world.
Highway temporarily blocked after truck dumps nacho cheese on roadway
A traffic accident sent what looked like countless containers of processed yellow cheese all over a stretch of highway in Prescott [Arkansas], located in the Southwest portion of the state about two hours north of Shreveport, Louisiana. No deaths or injuries were immediately reported by authorities.
At the gym today, I got my heart rate to 182. The guy next to me was at an embarrassing 155. He lost a competition he didn't even know he was in. That's how bad he lost.
He probably eats pine cones. Like a squirrel. Like a Russian.
A traffic accident sent what looked like countless containers of processed yellow cheese all over a stretch of highway in Prescott [Arkansas], located in the Southwest portion of the state about two hours north of Shreveport, Louisiana. No deaths or injuries were immediately reported by authorities.
This is one of those rare accidents that saves lives.
This is one of those rare accidents that saves lives.
In case you haven't been paying attention, I have been documenting an alarming series of "accidents" over the past year. Here are links to my previous posts.
Rome CNN — An Italian cheesemaker died on Sunday after being crushed by thousands of rounds of Grana Padano cheese in the aging room of his factory in Bergamo, northern Italy, local authorities said.
I happen to be of the opinion that all catastrocheeses (a term that I just minted) should be reported indiscriminately. What's gouda for the goose is gouda for the gander, as the saying goes.
Actually the lack of the necessities that money can buy, brings despair. Money alleviates that despair, but does not bring happiness.
The old number people used to cite that represented the amount you had to make in order to be happy (with happiness not increasing after this number) was $75,000 a year. The new study says that number is $500,000 a year. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/
I find this study helpful in quantifying how far each of us are away from happiness. Like if I make $150,000 per year, I can know know two things: (1) I'm exactly $350,000 away from being happy, and (2) I'll never make that much more, so I can be happy knowing I'll never be happy, but maybe I'll be sad knowing that. I'm not sure how that works..
It also tells me things about other people. Like I don't need to ask you if you're happy and listen to all your subjective blah blah blah, but I can just look at your paystub and know whether you're happy or not. If someone tells me they're not happy and I find out they make $600,000, I'll know they're lying and that'll piss me off for two reasons: (1) they are liars, and (2) they are happy even though they lie when a fair world would make liars unhappy. Maybe I'd be happy to know that, but I think that might still depend upon how much I make for me to be happy.
HOLD THE PHONE! I just did some more research. Only the top 1% make $500,000 (that number is $580,000 for people in Connecticut). That means that 99% of the people are unhappy. I'm happy to know that I'm among friends in that 99% group, but maybe that makes me unhappy. I still don't know how that works. https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#:~:text=The%20top%201%25%20income%20earner,make%20over%20%24580%2C000%20a%20year.
A thought experiment: You live in Deleware (and you use Tupperware because it ryhymes, but that's an aside), and you're happy as all get out because you make $500k per year. I mean you dance, you sing, and you have sex with supermodels that wear angel wings, but then you move to Connecticut (out of etiquette). Do you cease to be happy?
Totally unrelated, do you believe in karma? Like you reap what you sow?
I feel like if something bad happens to me, it's the result of someone else's karma because my sadness affects others more than it affects me.
Like if you're a bad person, my toe might start hurting, and you'll be like "Fuck! I hate that Hanover's toe hurts," and that will make you sadder than if your own toe hurt.
Another example would be like if you had a really hot wife, you'd think maybe you've been a good person, but actually she was a bad person, so she's stuck with you.
So, yes, I do believe in karma, but it's very complicated. In fact, part of its complicatedness is a karmic response to my liking things uncomplicated, but once I double dipped my nacho into the cheese dip and now I'm fucked that way due to karmic fairness powers.
Reply to jorndoe "Barbie" is on my list of best-avoided experiences, so I can't judge how gay it was. I would think that narrow-minded middle-easterners (and others) could find many objectionable features in the movie. Anti-gay religious and government activities are on the upswing in both Christian and Islamic countries in Africa, and the Middle East. The impetus for some of this negative activity comes from very conservative American fundamentalist church missionaries, particularly in Africa.
These trends may represent less "retrogression" (having not progressed a lot in the first place) than resurgence of negative policies towards homosexuals.
Christian denominations that have a world-wide presence--Methodists and Anglicans, for instance--have been split by conservatives in Africa and Liberals in the US and UK. For Methodists, the issue has resulted in a literal division of the church into two separate bodies. While homosexuality wasn't the main issue at the time, the Lutheran community was split up and reorganized in the 1980s by doctrinal divisions between very conservative members of the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church and centrist Lutherans in the other two Lutheran bodies.
I don't know much about it, but Islam apparently has friction between more liberal and more conservative tendencies.
The thing is, one can't rest secure in the certainty that liberal attitudes will prevail without regular maintenance service.
Reply to BC, haven't seen the movie either. The Iraqi ban wasn't about the movie, by the way. If only attitudes (liberal or not) leaned toward being humane...
Reply to Hanover Maybe a roofing nail. I suspect roofers are responsible for many flat tires. Why blame roofers? Why not blame roofers. They are as good a suspect as any.
Good news; another health disparity is closing! Women are coming closer to the same death rate from alcohol use as men. And older women are doing their part! Deaths from alcohol use are up among elderly women 6.2%.
Production of corpses by suicides is up too, among the usual suspects. Rural people are committing suicide more often these days. Having grown up in rural America, this seems entirely predictable. There are reasons why rural America is becoming depopulated--maybe not depopulated quite fast enough.
The Medical Establishment is now taking the position that any use of alcohol is unsafe. That sip of communion wine? Deadly. A glass of wine every day? Terminal alcoholism, clearly.
Reply to BC I had recently driven on my roof to gain a better vantage point to surreptitiously watch my sunbathing neighbor. I'd have gotten away with it, but I couldn't figure out how to turn off my daytime running lights. She caught a glimpse of me after noticing the glare and noticed my nakedness. Stunned by my boyish handsomeness, she allowed me to impregnate her. We named our offspring "Gonad" after the Greek God of love, only to have him forsake us by eating our last Oreo. I sent him to the desert and haven't seen him since, but hear he lives as a donkey, braying at passersby.
Anyway, all that is an aside. I must have picked up a nail while driving about on the roof
Women are coming closer to the same death rate from alcohol use as men. And older women are doing their part! Deaths from alcohol use are up among elderly women 6.2%.
The customary death by alcohol is liver disease, which can cause the esophagus to start bleeding. They put a giant hose down in there to blanch it, but that doesn't always work.
What this photo demonstrates is that one of the many advantages to being white is that if you're a monster, the external signs of that show up better against pale white skin. Dark skin absorbs light like a freaking black hole, so options are limited. You definitely can't do the urban legend "black-eyed children" because the eyes wouldn't show up. Zombie works better because the skin turns ashy.
Good news; another health disparity is closing! Women are coming closer to the same death rate from alcohol use as men. And older women are doing their part! Deaths from alcohol use are up among elderly women 6.2%.
Production of corpses by suicides is up too, among the usual suspects. Rural people are committing suicide more often these days. Having grown up in rural America, this seems entirely predictable. There are reasons why rural America is becoming depopulated--maybe not depopulated quite fast enough.
They call deaths by suicide, drugs, or alcohol "deaths of despair." Here are some shocking, to me, graphs.
And here's a graph of overall mortality rates. USW means Non-Hispanic white people in the US.
Key: U.S. White non-Hispanics (USW), US Hispanics (USH), and six comparison countries: France (FRA), Germany (GER), the United Kingdom (UK), Canada (CAN), Australia (AUS), and Sweden (SWE). (PNAS)
Actually the lack of the necessities that money can buy, brings despair. Money alleviates that despair, but does not bring happiness.
— LuckyR
Although, there's something magical about unspent potential Reply to frank
If you mean, cash reserves when you say unspent potential, then I agree money can give peace of mind (meaning protection against the despair brought about from potential future severe poverty, which is still different from happiness).
The old number people used to cite that represented the amount you had to make in order to be happy (with happiness not increasing after this number) was $75,000 a year. The new study says that number is $500,000 a year. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/
I find this study helpful in quantifying how far each of us are away from happiness. Like if I make $150,000 per year, I can know know two things: (1) I'm exactly $350,000 away from being happy, and (2) I'll never make that much more, so I can be happy knowing I'll never be happy, but maybe I'll be sad knowing that. I'm not sure how that works
But seriously you're citing questionnaire research (self reported) which is essentially garbage. There are plenty of "bragging rights" motivations for rich folk to claim imaginary happiness that doesn't exist. What is needed for those seeking to seriously explore this area is an objective measure (or marker) for happiness. When such data comes out I will be shocked if there is a measurable difference in happiness between those with $350k and $500k incomes.
Reply to LuckyR The "Medical Establishment" is the 'deep state' of health care -- not your friendly family doctor.
"Research" shows that even small amounts of alcohol are harmful. Like, you know, in a laboratory a small amount of alcohol would damage the liver cells in a petri dish. A PhD in public health takes the experimental results and announces that no safe level of alcohol exists. Clinic managers read the report and lower the threshold at which clinic practitioners should be concerned about drinking.
"No safe level of alcohol" might be true for a developing fetus or someone with liver disease. Otherwise, "no safe level" seems like a pretty extreme position. "Alcohol" isn't an essential nutrient; it's an essential lubricant.
The "medical establishment" is responsible for deciding that patients "admit" or "deny" using alcohol or street drugs, exercising daily, flossing, avoiding fat pork chops, etc. Like, if I say I don't drink, the chart says I deny it. If I say I do, the chart says I admit it. Hey I didn't take an oath at the reception desk!
The "medical establishment" that I am thinking of is less involved in medical care and more involved in medical policy. Of course, smoking, drinking, no exercise, a fat / salt / sugar-flled diet--all that is unhealthy. That doesn't mean that drinking a beer is the same as end-stage alcoholism or that occasional pork chops produce heart attacks.
All that said, a lot of Americans are unhealthy. See T Clark's charts above.
Ah so. Sure, groups like the American Cancer Society etc exist and make general, blanket statements like your examples. Mainly because they exist mainly in the layman's realm (putting on press conferences and appearing in the media). But most clinical practitioners use guidelines based out of the society that governs Board certification within their specialty which have a track record of delving into the details of real life clinical practice (since while lead by researchers, is made up of practicing individuals).
But most clinical practitioners use guidelines based out of the society that governs Board certification within their specialty which have a track record of delving into the details of real life clinical practice (since while lead by researchers, is made up of practicing individuals).
I generally trust doctors, but there are varying approaches which can be confusing. Zero alcohol for pregnant women makes sense to me. That smoking is harmful and has no health benefits is a pretty well established fact. But... at what point are statins really beneficial? Blood pressure medications can be tricky to calibrate, and what about people with 'white coat syndrome' (their blood pressure goes up when they are in an exam room with a doctor--I don't have that problem)? Is knowing one's BMI helpful to most people?
And then, despite the best possible care, we have a strong tendency to drop dead at some point.
Reply to BC The assumption is that the recommendations are scientifically based, so you needn't dispute them or arrive at theories why they may be untrue.
You still have the power to choose which risks to take. It's safest never to drink a beer, eat a pork rib, have sex, cross the street or zip up your pants too quickly. But we have to live our lives, and if your risk tolerance is high enough for a beer, then do it, but that doesn't mean the assessment that life is safer without beer isn't true.
Reply to Hanover Well, I'm always careful about zipping up, lest my dick get into even more trouble than it already has. It's retired now, so... not too much risk.
I generally follow doctors recommendations, even if I don't like them. I did resist taking statins for a few years, but now I do. And bp meds, benign prostate enlargement meds, vitamin D3, and a small dose anti-depressant. I tried melatonin and it seems to work, but so does just going to bed without taking it.
I also follow my dentist's directions. I floss daily, use a Water Pik, electric toothbrush, etc. It took decades to start daily flossing.
Reply to BC My cholesterol was high about 10 years ago, so the doctor asked me to change my diet and check back. A month later after eating boneless skinless chicken and broccoli, it dropped maybe 15 points. I told the doctor I only did it a month as a personal challenge, but wouldn't keep it up. So he gives me this little pill to take, and it drops like 70 points. The Rx runs out and I don't refill it. Several years later I go back to the doctor and he says that's no big deal because the criteria for the prescription has changed, and I no longer need it.
So if you don't like the ways things are, just wait and it'll change. It's like holding onto those really wide ties. They'll eventually come back in style.
unenlightenedAugust 12, 2023 at 09:54#8297370 likes
I have heroically refrained from posting this in the Ukraine thread, but the world needs to know this stuff.
Instead of raising interest rates, the Japanese just let their currency devalue (relatively) and then they intervene. Investors get nervous when the yen gets to a certain point because they expect the Japanese to blow billions (about 68 billion last time) to artificially raise the yen's value. This has the effect of scaring investors away from any yen market.
This is a picture of Matt Gaetz at Iowa State Fair. Although the photo is of some interest for it's political content, more importantly, I would like to point out the Pork Chop on a Stick booth in the background. I have booked my flight to Des Moines.
U.S. Rep Matt Gaetz (R-FL) signs autographs as he attends the Iowa State Fair in Des Moines, Iowa, on August 12, 2023. The congressman has been a staunch supporter of former President Donald Trump.
Reply to T Clark Pork chop on a stick! One of my favourites (as well as everything regarding pork). :yum:
Oh, I miss talking about food on The Shoutbox...
You guys all discuss high falutin food. The only foods I want to talk about are Velveeta; pork chops on a stick; and cheese, beer, or sugar on the highway.
Reply to javi2541997Reply to T Clark Iowa is peak pig territory, 13.2 billion pounds of pig on a stick last year. Minnesota and North Carolina are distant seconds with 4.6 billion pounds of delicious, succulent pork choppery.
Pigs are skinnier now than they used to be; humans (known as "long pig" among cannibals) have taken up the slack.
Ideal Sunday dinner: pork loin with a nicely browned fat layer on top, served with apple sauce, potato, and pork gravy. Plus other stuff. Baked buttercup squash and sweet corn in late summer and fall. Apple pie for desert.
Ideal Sunday dinner: pork loin with a nicely browned fat layer on top, served with apple sauce, potato, and pork gravy. Plus other stuff. Baked buttercup squash and sweet corn in late summer and fall. Apple pie for desert.
Iowa is peak pig territory, 13.2 billion pounds of pig on a stick last year. Minnesota and North Carolina are distant seconds with 4.6 billion pounds of delicious, succulent pork choppery.
Interesting data! We only produce 32.796 million pounds. Maybe it is due to the tightness of our peninsula compared to the vast territories of the USA.
Reply to Hanover Yogi Berra did very poorly in school. One day his teacher said, "You don't know much, do you, Yogi." Yogi replied, "I don't even suspect."
Reply to javi2541997 Aside from reeking factory farms where thousands of hogs eat and defecate, Iowa is a giant corn field divided into 4 quarters by Interstates 35 and 80.
A hundred hogs on a farm smells OK. 10,000 hogs on a farm produces a thick, suffocating fecal stench. As odors go, it's worse than a badly operated oil refinery.
Ideal Sunday dinner: pork loin with a nicely browned fat layer on top, served with apple sauce, potato, and pork gravy.
There was a very well-known restaurant in Boston for many years - Durgin Park. Solid old New England American food. I ordered exactly what you described above whenever I went there. I didn't go often enough that I ever got tired of it. Durgin Park is long gone now. It was located in the touristy Faneuil Hall Marketplace near the harbor and it couldn't compete with the food court.
Instead of apple pie for desert, I had Indian pudding, which is an old fashioned pudding made with molasses and corn meal. Terrible stuff unless you put on a lot of vanilla ice cream, which I did.
The article you linked said it was 100 lbs. of sugar. A fairly piddly amount to name a geographical feature after. Of course you've heard of Boston's famous molasses spill that killed about 20 people. That was more than 2 million gallons and we didn't change the name of the North End to Treacle Hill.
In the winter of 1962/63 a 2.5 million gallon tank of soybean oil burst in Mankato, MN at the huge Honeymead soy processing plant. ["Mmmmm, grease." Homer says.] Some of the oil solidified and was salvaged. (It was sent to the nearest Velveeta plant.). Much of it ended up in the Minnesota River which joins the Mississippi in Mpls / St. Paul. That same winter, an oil company spilt a million gallons of petroleum oil into into the Minnesota River. In the spring, the soybean and petroleum oil met and joined forces, polluting many miles of river and causing the sorts of damage one would expect.
No names were changed here, either, but the greasy mess did lead to the creation of the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, along with enabling enforcement legislation.
Honeymead is still in business in Mankato, but is owned by Cargill, Inc.
In the spring, the soybean and petroleum oil met and joined forces, polluting many miles of river and causing the sorts of damage one would expect.
Often the unsung heroes are the thousands of seagulls who fly directly into the disaster areas and flap their wings in the thick oil in order to soak up to mess to save the villagers.
That comment was even insensitive for me if I do say so myself.
Metaphysician UndercoverAugust 14, 2023 at 02:16#8302120 likes
Pig on a stick? What happened to the good old corn dog? The fat cats have taken over the fairground.
Reply to T Clark I didn't mean to steal any of your thunder. The molasses massacre is a very famous event--perhaps because it happened in Boston and not in Mankato. Your Indian pudding tasted bad because they were still using molasses scrapped off the streets in 1919. Probably had a little horse shit and dead fish mixed in with it; maybe some fried clams.
Reply to Hanover It was ducks who saved us from peril in '62. They spied the grease floating on the river as they migrated north, and immediately saw that it was better to be a dead duck in oil than to be shot out of the sky and be served in aspic for Sunday dinner.
I'm sure they have corn dogs at the Iowa State Fair too, along with corn on the cob, fried dough, fried butter, fried pickles, funnel cakes... But I ain't flying to Iowa for no corn dog.
Reply to T Clark I've had Indian pudding -- in Massachusetts -- and I thought it was good.
Jack CumminsAugust 14, 2023 at 09:08#8302480 likes
I just wish to draw attention to the short story/ poetry threads competition. I know that there is a thread on the front page. However, at the moment there doesn't appear to be much interest. The voting continues until 20th August. The threads can be found by going into the 'Categories' section. It would be great if many people using the forum gave feedback and voted and, even as a break from the theoretical side of philosophy, just as this thread is a light diversion mostly.
Reply to Jack Cummins Put in practice your own words and start commenting on the poems, Jack. :razz:
Jack CumminsAugust 14, 2023 at 10:19#8302640 likes
Reply to javi2541997
I think that is a bit unfair! I have been reading the stories and do plan to read the poetry afterwards. I didn't write the comment above to put pressure on people, but to simply point to the presence of the the threads. It is not homework to be done but, hopefully, pleasurable reading!
As far as you know, I was on that grand jury and I heroically busted into the courtroom and handed the judge the indictment, half the crowd cheering, the other half booing, and the third half doing the Charleston in full flapper regalia.
There are a whole lot of indictments. When will trial begin on one of these things? I'm ready for a verdict.
After I went to bed last night, they decided to go ahead and have the trial right away. So, they finished it early this morning. Not guilty on all counts and the judge determined that Trump had won the election after all. One of the witnesses found 11,781 votes. They'd left them in their pants when they sent them to the dry cleaner. Giuliani was convicted on all counts and sentenced to die. They [s]hung[/s] hanged him at dawn. That was before they found all the votes. The judge, an old Saturday Night Live fan, said "Oh, never mind."
He didn't die though. He just swung back and forth like a pendulum. They took him down and he kept swinging, so they loaded him up in a grandfather clock and he's been keeping perfect time since early this morning. The going joke is that he is grandfather in a grandfather clock.
Then what happened is that his schlong snuck out and began its own swinging fit, so that got loaded into a mini-grandfather clock and it too is keeping perfect time. The going joke is that it's being called a grandfather cock clock.
There's a really fun vibe around the courthouse right now.
There's a really fun vibe around the courthouse right now.
I hope they decide to go to trial early rather than after the feds. The Georgia trial may be the only one televised and I'm tired of "I Love Lucy" reruns. Oh, Donny. You've got some splaining to do!
Merriam-Webster:The past tense of hang in almost all situations is hung. You hung a picture on the wall, or you hung out at the mall. Only use hanged when referring to someone being sentenced to death via hanging.
Don't be fooled by T Clark's posted picture of "corn dog". They are not delicious.
Wieners (after people who lived in Vienna and invented the now degraded sausage referred to as the "hot dog") are dipped in a cornmeal batter then deep fat fried in what always tastes of old oil containing residues of fish, onion rings, clams, tuna fish hot dish on a stick, dill pickle on a stick--all shit on a stick.
Natural casing wieners, cooked in several possible ways that doesn't involve deep fat or corn meal, served on a fresh roll (with sour kraut or horseradish mustard if you hail from Die Schöne Deutschland) is a civilized dish. Corn dogs are pig food sold at state fairs. Disgusting.
Reply to BC Oh, right. Thanks. We have hot dogs here - I like them if the bread roll and the 'dog' are good quality. In other words, I like snobby gourmet ones.
I met a lady at the fair who I couldn't seem to convince to show me affection, so I dipped myself in corn batter, creating a boisterous and throbbing corn dog twixt my thighs, which she quickly gnawed to our mutual satisfaction.
It was a win win. We"d have married had she not gotten a hankering for the taco, which was something I just wasn't able to accommodate.
If you go back and check my posts, you'll see I never endorsed them. I don't remember ever having one. I was expressing my interest in the pork chop on a stick.
[quote=Wikipedia]A corn dog (also spelled corndog and also known by several other names) is a sausage (usually a wiener) on a stick that has been coated in a thick layer of cornmeal batter and deep fried.[/quote]
Think it's a battered sav, a Dagwood dog, fare found mostly at country shows, miscellaneous animal body parts blended into a paste and deep fried, served with watered down tomato sauce, from a caravan, presumably so the purveyor can make a fast getaway.
The really disgusting bit is that they look better than they taste.
Think it's a battered sav, a Dagwood dog, fare found mostly at country shows,
I suppose the American to Aussie translation is that a country show is a county fair, so what we're talking about is fair fare.
Dagwood to me references the Blondie comic strip, so a Dagwood sandwich would be a deli sandwich stacked high, but wiki tells me your corn dog is somehow related to that comic strip as well.
Blondie spoke of a heart of glass, and since I'm all about free association, Miley singing the Blondie classic:
If Claude King didn't play Uncle Willie's butler, someone else did.
Someone else did not play Uncle Willie's butler.
Therefore, Claude King played Uncle Willie's butler.
If Claude King didn't play Uncle Willie's butler, someone else did.
Someone else did not play Uncle Willie's butler.
Therefore, Claude King played Uncle Willie's butler.
Reply to Hanover You as Katherine Hepburn just makes total sense. Actually, I don't know whether Frank is gay or not -- but if he is, I'm probably gayer.
This is sort of interesting regarding whether transgender male to females can play chess as females in tournaments. https://www.yahoo.com/news/world-chess-federation-bars-transgender-104414982.html
As in, why did they have seperate competitions anyway, as if men are genetically superior at chess? Statistically it is obvious that men dominate chess, but are we now claiming that it is genetic? Or, is this just a matter of women being under-represented in chess and the best way to promote their participation is to allow them to compete against one another and allowing in trans competitors would hurt this effort?
At the amatuer level, I don't actually ever recall there being a seperate women's class and the women competed against men all grouped by skill rating level. Outside of a very large tournament, I don't think you'd even be able to have the women in a seperate group because there wouldn't be enough of women for their own group.
This apparently arises from from this case of Yosha Iglesias, a trans woman FIDE rated at 2249, which puts her at a master level, but, overall, far from elite in the women's catagory.
Sounds like a challenge. Gentlemen, let the games begin.
I like Hawaiian shirts, glassware, Barbara Streisand, women's dresses (I don't wear them), and musical comedy. On the other hand, I'm not attracted to men sexually. Is that a deal breaker?
Comments (61561)
Around 150,000 people die every day. One would think heaven would use something beside a flickering screen. One would have to stand there a long time to check the day's departure tickets. Not a problem, I suppose, since one would have eternity before one.
Will anyone be available to assist the day's dearly departed find their name among the 150,000 also rans to know whether they are damned or not?
Part of the punishment is allowing you to stand at the door knowing that you won't be let in - St Peter, as you might recall, is God's door bitch.
Why would you imagine there are direct flights to Hell? They are all routed through La Guardia.
Quoting BC
Followers of The One True Faith go first class and don't have to wait in line.
Sounds very good except that I hate watermelon. Have since I was a kid. Perhaps that will help you understand my philosophy better.
Beer and fish together is underrated.
Quoting T Clark
No longer. The decade-long rebuild is almost over.
Quoting T Clark
Hate's a strong word but I've never liked it either, even as a kid. What a strange thing to bond over.
I know it will alarm you to recognize you and I have a lot in common.
It all began with watermelon.
No. It all began with our love of New York City. And with the fact that, although we are not theists, we believe that religious believers, all other things being equal, should be treated with respect. You don't get involved with philosophy often, but I value your input when the rabid atheists get started.
Beer also seems like it belongs, but it, like all alcohol, just makes me tired, kills my buzz, and makes me more introverted.
In summary, summery,
A tree spoke to me.
Told me not to speak.
To let others stumble upon me.
To follow or not.
:up:
[s]But my religion requires the frequent and vigorous use of my tongue.[/s]
Nah, that's too much like something you would write.
Although I like tart, acidic things, I realized a few years ago Kiwis are often under ripe and too acidic. If you get one that's sufficiently ripe it's quite nice, to me at least.
Watermelons used to be oblong; now they all seem to be spherical. I like watermelon, but only by itself, never in a dark leafy green salad--an abomination. Cucumbers are good too - alone or in salad, or pickled.
Watermelon flavored Jello™, anyone?
True. I will do what I can to get involved more. I often feel intimidated because I'm less well read than most I think, but these discussions are helpful for readers; I need to remind myself they're not about me.
by John Tobias
During that summer
When unicorns were still possible;
When the purpose of knees
Was to be skinned;
When shiny horse chestnuts
(Hollowed out
Fitted with straws
Crammed with tobacco
Stolen from butts
in family ashtrays)
Were puffed in green lizard silence
While straddling thick branches
Far above and away
From the softening effects of
civilization;
During that summer—
Which may never have been at all;
But which has become more real
Than the one that was—
Watermelons ruled.
Thick imperial slices
Melting frigidly on sun-parched tongues
Dribbling from chins;
Leaving the best part,
The black bullet seeds,
To be spit out in rapid fire
Against the wall
Against the wind
Against each other;
And when the ammunition was spent,
There was always another bite:
It was a summer of limitless bites,
Of hungers quickly felt
And quickly forgotten
With the next careless gorging.
The bites are fewer now.
Each one is savored lingeringly,
Swallowed reluctantly.
But in a jar put up by Felicity,
The summer which never maybe was
Has been captured and preserved.
And when we unscrew the lid
And slice off a piece
And let it linger on our tongue:
Unicorns become possible again.
Me too. I'm beginning to doubt I'm in the right online community.
Dinner: deep-fried baby squid and croquetas de jamon iberico by the beach.
He’s said that he’s working on it. Some unforeseen issues arose— like the death of his friend Dan Ellsberg, that has made it slow going. But we’ll post when he’s responded.
I will have to do a trial and error. So far, I have tried it at different times, and I still didn't like it.
Quoting Jamal
I'm with you in spirit if calamari.
That's interesting. I don't much like watermelon or cucumber. Allthough, thinking back, there was that time, when I was a kid, that I got horribly vomitous after having eaten watermelon. While I don't have any reason to think that my getting sick was due to the watermelon, perhaps that experience programmed my brain to consider watermelon poison and evoke a disgust response.
I also can't stand cilantro, but I know that's a genetic thing.
Interesting...
Neither do I. You and I have even more in common than @T Clark and I do.
I suspect there is more to that, than I know enough history to understand. :cool:
True yes, sorry to use you in an inside joke. There's also been some discussion at length on cucumbers in the shoutbox. Er...
:rofl:
I see.
Cilantro reminds me of the smell of rotting vegetable matter. Its flavor for me is just this side of repellent--not quite enough to avoid it, but too much to like it.
It's odd; I like some stinky cheeses, the scents of which remind me of various disgusting odors, but despite that they taste "good". Parmesan stinks. Limburger is a classic smelly soft cheese which reminds me of the rich fragrance of a dairy barn -- silage, cow manure (which I don't find objectionable) the breath of cattle, hay, ground grain feed, etc. It's not made by most cheese producers anymore because, I suppose, the number of people who like its flavor and aroma is a vanishing demographic. A sandwich of limburger, rye bread, raw onion, and liver sausage (braunschweiger) tasted good.
To me it tastes like dish soap, and can ruin an otherwise great meal. Peanut M&Ms is another disgust one for me, although I like peanuts and chocolate together in other things. It wasn't until I was an adult that I heard the story of how, when I was one, I got my hands on a five pound bag of peanut M&Ms...
Quoting BC
I'll have to find some Limburger to try some time. I was a farmboy for part of my childhood, and took steers to the 4-H fair.
[quote=britannica.com]… for those cilantro-haters for whom the plant tastes like soap, the issue is genetic. These people have a variation in a group of olfactory-receptor genes that allows them to strongly perceive the soapy-flavored aldehydes in cilantro leaves. This genetic quirk is usually only found in a small percent of the population, though it varies geographically. Interestingly, places where cilantro is especially popular, such as Central America and India, have fewer people with these genes, which might explain how the herb was able to become such a mainstay in those regions. East Asians have the highest incidence of this variation, with some studies showing that nearly 20% of the population experiences soapy-tasting cilantro. There is some evidence that cilantrophobes can overcome their aversion with repeated exposure to the herb, especially if it is crushed rather than served whole, but many people simply choose to go with their genetic inclinations and avoid its soapiness altogether.[/quote]
I mustn’t have those genes, because I love the stuff. Kinza, coriander, cilantro, ki?ni?, whatever you’re calling it, I’m right there munching it.
In the "natural" wine world, wines, usually reds, that have "barnyardy" scents have been in vogue for about 10 years here, but I think the term and desire for it are finally on the out, thank Satan. But I do wonder about smell's powerful connection to memory. I too do not mind the smell of cow manure, but I don't want it in my wine.
Regarding your ignoble comments about me on other threads dusty.
My wife made that once. Everyone but me liked it, but I dreaded every bite. I had to eat at least half of it to be polite. That's testament to my devotion to my wife.
Your writing on religion is knowledgeable, respectful, humane. I find it much more convincing than my beating of drums. But then, we don't need to convince each other.
As for other philosophical issues, I am not nearly as well read as some people on the forum. The difference is that I'm right and they're wrong.
The poem is right that the best part of watermelon is the seeds. Now most kinds you buy are seedless. What's the point?
Yes, and watermelon rind pickle. Too sweet. Jars and jars of them sitting on high shelves in the mudroom on my grandfathers farm with the peaches and tomatoes.
For me, they are in different parts of the mouth. Sour is right up front but bitter is at the back of the throat.
Cilantro and parsley tastes like eating grass to me. I always wonder why people like it so much. I also don't like celery much, especially cooked. But many types of cooking consider it important for sauces and soups.
I really do like coriander seed though. Subtle and just a little sweet.
The power of intuition, which we also agree on, despite me reading you the business about your stubbornness about your experience of Taoism in the past.
Coriander is cilantro. Parsley and cilantro (aka Chinese parsley) are in the same family -- Apiaceae. So... if you don't like one, it's quite likely you won't like the other either. Parsley doesn't have a lot going for it.
Philosophy is full of dozens, hundreds, thousands of points of view, metaphysical. It's not stubborn to pick one you find useful and apply it to your life and understanding of reality. I've said pretty strongly that I recognize the value and potential value of other metaphysical understandings.
Yes, I know. That's why I brought up coriander seeds. I suspected parsley and coriander are related, but I wasn't sure.
We don't have any data on everyone's reading habits to know whether you are less well read than other posters here. My guess is that people tend to post about topics they are familiar with. They may be well read in this or that topic and functionally illiterate in the topics about which they have nothing to say, Certainly true for me -- there are many gaps in my general-knowledge-derived-from-reading. Not that ignorance is necessarily a barrier.
We also don't have a lot of data on whom, when, and to what extent people are pretending to be knowledgeable (aka bullshitting) and when they actually know something. A confident BSer can sound very learned. You and I would never think of making up stuff (unless it it served the general cause of the true, the good, and the beautiful) but not everyone here has as much intellectual integrity as we do.
Humility is good, somebody said once, but you should not hide your very bright bicycle light under a bushel basket (if you can even find one of those).
This is clearly wrong. As the member who started the discussion "You don't need to read philosophy to be a philosopher" I am clearly in the forefront, the vanguard of those who are not well-read in philosophy.
I don't think you "picked" a metaphysical position, though; I don't think anyone has metaphysical volition. It's in you for whatever reason, and it makes you stubborn. We're all stubborn about ours, but some of us are happy to express our stubbornness and some of us shrink away and throw up a protective screen when questioned. Our response says nothing about our metaphysic, just about our psychological pathologies.
Anyways, all I was trying to say is that I agree with you on your emphasis on the value of intuition in philosophy.
:halo:
I read philosophy threads based on tone rather than content, often. It helps in sussing out motives which retroactively informs philosophical questions in the context of the discussion.
I think there's a lot to the idea of philosophical temperaments. (Been reading William James.)
You missed an option though, which I guess maybe is shame? One of the things that makes me quit the forum now and then for a few months is when I feel like I'm just posting the same old shit all the time, writing on auto-pilot. I feel ashamed when I say things I've said before -- or really it's more like, when I say things because they are the sort of thing I say. Show me a comfort zone and I'll start looking for exits.
I'd like to know what it is, but I'm trying to figure it out from what you said after.
Ah. Goes like this: we all have some bias or style or temperament or whatever; you might not recognize that you do and deny it, act defensively, all that, redouble efforts to hide it from yourself and so on; or you might recognize it, recognize that everyone's in the same boat, and feel no shame in promoting your own perspective as yours; the third option is that you recognize your own tendencies and regret having them, either because of what they are, or just because they are biases.
Were you to read everything in philosophy from Thales to the present, you would, I suspect, encounter famous philosophers repeating the same old shit again and again.
Ok, I see this is what I missed. Maybe I'm too young to get here. It sounds depressing, and I say that as a depressed person. I'd like to imagine a world in which this doesn't have to be the case. I'm still living in your second world, except I don't feel a freedom to express my perspective as mine. Rather, I feel a need to emphasize how biased we all are, myself included, and that this realization is a beginning point, not an ending point.
You could leave it out on the counter for a week, then eat it. That should be quite unhealthy -- possibly fatal.
Sure. No less a personage than Ezra Pound once said
I don't feel bad either reinventing the wheel or repeating another's thoughts. Honestly I don't feel bad repeating my own so long as I'm actually thinking them. (And I've enjoyed a couple times on this forum coming up with an idea only to realize I had come up with the same idea before, years earlier.) What I really object to is me not thinking, but still talking. It's all the more tempting when you've developed a stock of ideas to fall back on.
[quote=Wittgenstein, somewhere in Culture and Value]When a crack begins to form in the organic unity of the work of art, the artist stuffs it with straw, but to quiet his conscience, he uses only the best straw.[/quote]
An interesting idea would be to re-read your old posts over the years here and see if you've changed your position anywhere.
If not, then see if you've changed anyone else's position.
If not, come up with a reason why you haven't just wasted your time here.
One good rationalization would be like if you played golf your whole life, never reduced your score and never helped anyone reduce their score, you could say you just like being outside away from other things and so it hasn't been a waste.
If that rationalization doesn't work, cry.
If crying doesn't help, cry harder.
Lard is actually one of the healthiest fats, whatever your midwestern upbringing might tell you. It took me years to break the bondage.
I just bought generic lentils that looked greenish. They're my least favorite but I was trying to be healthy. Second are the reds you like; red lentil soup from a good Middle Eastern spot is so great. My number one are black lentils; they're small and retain their shape, and the flavor is a bit more nuanced, and they work better with different dishes.
I would say right off this has happened regularly, but it might be more accurate to say that my ideal is not having positions, and now and then I manage that, though not as often as I'd like, so then there's nothing to change.
I have an extreme allergy to people saying things like "Well, I'm an idealist, so ..." Fuck that. I fundamentally do not understand people who are here to inform others what their position is. Why would anyone care?
Cook Wilson, I guess in a kind of Socratic mood, thought philosophers shouldn't publish at all, because then you have to deal with what you've published, and you'll probably end up defending it, and now you're an orthodoxy of one.
Quoting Hanover
Except for a few successes explaining technical stuff to people, I do not think this has ever happened. Maybe. But my two principal modes are: (1) trying to convince people not to think something -- usually just because logic says "no" -- rather than persuade them to think something I do; (2) exploration. I've posted a lot of theories over the years that I was making up on the fly, with revisions every few posts, so there's no position to bring people over to.
When I find myself doing something else, like trying to convince people to think as I do -- with an exception for technical stuff, though that gets boring -- I am unhappy.
The TL;DR is that "positions" are anathema to philosophy, as I conceive it.
A lot of people seem to think the reason to do philosophy is to get really good at choosing your position, to choose the very best ones, and that bores the shit out of me.
I have many metaphysical positions. I'm always a pragmatist - whatever works is the right way to go. When I do science, I am a materialist. When I do epistemology, I'm a Taoist - I believe self-awareness, introspection, intuition is the source of knowledge.
I'll say it again - I don't see myself as stubborn at all, but I do stand up for my ideas. One of my mottos - If you're not willing to stand up for your ideas, you might as well not have them at all.
I find myself holding back on issues I care most about - metaphysics, epistemology, Taoism - for just that reason. I get tired of saying the same things over and over. Recently I've found myself waiting around for discussions on different subjects I think I can contribute to. One thing I've noticed is that I have been deleting drafts of half-finished posts - tired of my own opinions.
Bastard.
I've said before, for me, philosophy is about becoming more aware of how I think. How my mind works. How I know things. I don't fee like I have to convince anyone of anything. Philosophy is a test - do my ideas hold up to examination by people other than myself.
I'm listening. So why keep posting?
It used to be commonly said by serious chess players and trainers that you need to take a break from the game sometimes and wait until "chess hunger" occurs, which I saw glossed once as "the need to be creative at the chessboard." I remember finding that if I took some time off, bad habits would fall away and I'd come back a better player despite not having played in a tournament in months.
I don't know if I come back to the forum better after my little breaks. But I do usually get the itch to do philosophy just like I used to get the itch to play chess again.
Quoting T Clark
It's hard to argue with that.
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm confused. Do you mean, what else is there? What could I possibly be doing besides choosing and defending a position? -- Or do you mean something else?
I relate entirely to this - except the shame part. From the age of 40 on I found myself repeating myself on any number of subjects. At a certain point many of us have built a worldview, along with certain patterns in thinking which go around and around in a groove. My range shrinks and expands here and there, with new information and some effort.
I agree about philosophical temperaments. My disposition has resulted in my not having privileged philosophy and I came here mainly to see what I had missed out on. A combination of ageing and boredom, perhaps. For the most part, I am very interested in what others believe in and why. I don't have the temperament, attention span or motivation to get fully into complex thinkers or technical questions, but I am interested in what people have to say about them. Being here has improved my thinking.
Philosophy is still largely made up of opposing positions, though. My thoughts are structured in patterns. I have to have a pattern (when I was a child I called it the skeleton) in order to think at all. Philosophy is an exploration of thought patterns. What skrews it up is emotion. Emotion anchors you to one point of view, so you don't realize that all positions are actually the same: they all have strengths and weaknesses. So a person will think: if I just expose the other side's weakness, I won!
I agree with bitter, that's been my experience too, it lingers in the back. Sour is kind of more intense for me.
I suppose the answer should be found in the distribution of our taste buds in the tongue.
Much of what he says resonates with me. So much so that sometimes I just want to concede I'm a product of my environment. As in, really? I think my lifetime exploration for answers happened to land me with an American pragmatist. As if that was unexpected.
I remember years ago hearing a theory that competition plays less of a role in market economies than people think. When it comes to commodities of comparable quality, firms do indeed compete on price, just like in Econ 101, but that's actually a special case. More common is McDonald's and Burger King, and there consumers simply prefer one or the other, given that the prices are comparable. To claim they "compete" on taste is an empty abstraction -- it's not like McDonald's can beat out Burger King by offering "more" taste for the same price; what they offer is simply different. Different, not more or less, and only better or worse to individuals with their fixed preferences, not better or worse in some absolute sense.
And so it is with a lot of things, and quite possibly with philosophy. As you say, every position or school or approach has its strengths and weaknesses; if those aren't really comparable, we can make them comparable, being experts at the empty abstraction, and in that sense, indeed, philosophy is "made up of opposing positions" because the opposition is something we make up.
Which is not all wrong, of course. If you can show where two quite different sorts of theories, let's say, with very different background assumptions and so on, actually differ on some specific prediction, black and white, you've brought them into dialogue where they might have continued talking past each other. We do a lot of that.
But it's never as effective at changing minds as people think it will be, because the allegiance -- the emotional attachment, as you note -- is not to that specific prediction, a mere detail, but to the picture of the world it emanates from. People will always find a way to manage the ramifications of their worldview, so long as they get to keep the core intact.
And I suppose I think people are often unaware of the source of that rigidity in their thinking. That core commitment might be to a sort of picture, as Wittgenstein says, or to a myth, as Sellars says, or it might be a matter of temperament, as James says.
The stuff I was posting last night suggests I expect myself not to have any such core commitments, but that's probably not quite right, not even as an ideal. But a lot of philosophy is probably like a bad fight in a marriage: what the words say you're arguing about is not what you're really arguing about. I'm interested in sussing out those real differences.
I feel like I should apologize now for talking philosophy in the shoutbox! (I don't spend a lot of time here and am unused to your strange ways.)
That's one theory. The other is that competition is the driving force.
See what I did there?
There's a lot of variability there because it depends on the product and the culture. Apple, for instance, makes high quality products, but it's partly a matter of the culture of the company and a market that responded favorably to their vision. In an alternate universe all cell phones are shabby because every company is aiming for the bottom of the barrel to lower their prices.
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I think it goes deeper, though. The very existence of a philosophical position depends on contrast. If I'm a materialist, that only makes sense relative to an idealist position. In the moment I've won the day and proven materialism, I'm still not free of idealism because I need to give my own position meaning. I can defeat my opponent, but I have to send him to Belarus because I still need him.
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Your commitments are part of who you are. My own philosophical flexibility is related to having a weak sense of identity, which doesn't mean I'm wishy washy. I can very forcefully be anybody I decide to be, but my homebase is ambiguous. As you say, it's not an ideal. It's just the way I am. If everybody was like me, there wouldn't be any philosophy because everybody would just smile and approve of any position anybody presented.
Yes. Thinking is what I do. It was what I did for a living and it's what I do now for recreation. What could be more fun? I guess that's it, I need to take a break when it's not fun anymore. Which is sort of like what you were saying.
I'd prefer to think of it as having built a worldview and then tested it out on the field of philosophical battle. When I was an engineer, at one or more times during a project, I would sit down with other engineers, some working on the project and some not. I would lay out my thoughts and plans and then let them do their best to hack them to pieces. It was all collegial and a lot of fun. It saved my butt many times by keeping me from moving ahead with a plan that wouldn't work.
Quoting Tom Storm
This is true for me too. I also like reading well written reviews of books I'll never read.
Quoting Tom Storm
Yes. Also my writing and my patience.
Being an engineer, I've always seen it as the framing of the structure.
I've found this to be true. But every once in a while I will be surprised to find that I've convinced someone or even that someone has convinced me. Either is an exhilarating experience.
Same as a skeleton, right? It's the structure that gives all the details a place to be. :grin:
Yes. The framing is the skeleton of the building.
Well, as I said, we work pretty hard to get opposing theories to make claims or predictions that compete directly, but that doesn't make those yes-no questions constitutive of the deep difference between two camps.
For example
Quoting frank
I'm not sure these are real things. There are people you can get to say "There's nothing in the universe that isn't physical" and other people you can get to say "There is!" But I'm doubtful this is where anyone starts out from. At bottom is some sort of intuition about how things are, and that means eventually you might say one of those things or the other, but that intuition itself might not stand in contrast to anything else, oppose itself to anything, since those fundamental intuitions are sort of complete in themselves. Which doesn't necessarily mean totalizing, but self-sustaining, sui generis. (The feeling that people always have it in for you, for example, is not a total theory of the universe, and it also needn't have emerged as the winner of any competition with alternative theories.)
I suppose I'm saying that those points of disagreement we focus on so much are just clues, or that finding such points of disagreement is like finding the entrance to a cave, and it might be a long way down to find what's hidden in there. Things like "materialism" and "idealism" are flimsy curtains someone's hung over the mouth of the cave.
What you are describing is metaphysics - the intuition that sits as the foundation of everything you believe. Don't get me started.
You said choosing a position and arguing it is boring, so I was just wondering if there's an alternative that keeps you posting.
I'm just saying I don't think we consciously "choose" philosophical positions. When I was 14 I thought I felt a "spiritual conviction" to "give my life to Christ", so I consciously chose to do that, and thought it meant something. About 10 years later I found this belief to have decomposed to the point that it didn't exist anymore. My conversion experience as a teen was a conscious choice, but the beliefs were already in place and had been since I could form thoughts about life. Then over time that belief system disintegrated and morphed into the bizarre patchwork of non-religious beliefs I have now. None of this is a conscious choice, and I was under an illusion when I thought I chose to be a Christian. I didn't in the same way I don't choose to not be one now.
I promise.
Quoting Noble Dust
Not always.
I suppose in a way I approach my own thoughts the same as I approach the thoughts of others, curious about what's really behind them. So it's a case of "How do I know what I mean until I see what I say?" I often discover what I'm thinking sometime after I've started talking, which is interesting. And not much like knowing exactly what you think already and then just announcing it and explaining it to anyone who'll listen.
In a way, a thought I don't understand is a puzzle to be solved, but I don't have infinite time or patience, so I must be content to leave some such puzzles unsolved. I can hope that in trying to solve such a puzzle I can at least learn something about what I think and why, so when even that's not happening, I decide it's time to shut up.
That could be expanded into a book-length discussion. I have also experienced decomposing belief -- just more extended in time than your experience. That was Christianity that rotted. I find other beliefs are rotting out from under my convictions, particularly those of left-politics. Rot, rotting, rotted unto undifferentiated humus. (note: humus and hummus are two different things.)
I'm NOT becoming a right winger -- god forbid -- lest anyone think that.
Reminds me of a Laurie Lewis song - You don't choose the one you love, love chooses you. By which I mean I agree.
Knowledge is the stabilisation of contradictions, not their resolution. The point is not to pull back the curtains but to discover the larger world that such a dichotomy is seeking to frame.
Just wear a yarmulke when you're driving it - that'll throw them off.
If you don't know how to spell it you're probably not really the Camaro type. Then again, maybe poor spelling is part of the package.
No no! Don't let them sell you the add-on Appalachian Orthography Package! It's a rip-off, even though it includes that sweet undercoating.
Are we talking "red" or "wild cherry"? Consider buying it. The 2023 2dr Coupe 3LT Camaro has low redneck and white trash quotients. The price cited on line is $40,000, depending, which rednecks can afford, but not white trash (at least according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which closely monitors redneck and white trash spending).
You should really go for an up market black ZL1 Car which has a list price of over $72,000. A lawyer should appear very prosperous to attract more business, and it has redneck / white trash quotients of 0.
Consumer Reports maintains that car bodies are factory undercoated so there is no need to add more, sweet or bitter.
Regardless, it's not uncommon to find a brand new one parked outside a trailer. It's all about priorities.
Thinking of getting an airbrush plate for it like this, with my wife and my name on it, but I'll add a "4 Ever" cuz she's my cherry pie.
But this is:
:chin:
1. They have bigger brains
2. They have a more varied diet.
3. They can fly.
4. All of the above
Is it known that those early birds had more varied diets than their earthbound cohorts?
I have a question. Is being a flightless bird better, worse, or the same as being a primate without the ability to swing from trees with your tail?
It's 4. I guess more dinosaurs would have survived if they were more flexible about diet. Bird flexibility is probably a result of the bigger brain.
Quoting Jamal
Yes.
You added that option after I responded. Foul play.
You mean fowl play.
I would have thought that one reason would be that there were a lot more birds living in a lot more different habitats than dinosaurs.
My guess is that non-avian dinosaurs lived in all the habitats that the birds lived in, unless you count the sky as a habitat.
You might be right. Alas, I'm too lazy to try to figure it out. Maybe @BC will do it for us.
Did you know you can buy a queen bee off ebay and have it delivered overnight?
A bigger (and heavier) brain isn't so adaptive for flying species. Somewhere along the line birds evolved brains with high density of neurons, so as to get more information processing in a small package. Also, a small brain means neural signals have less far to travel, in getting from one part of the brain to another. (Part of why flies can be so good at evading humans.)
If they'd only had Ebay and Amazon 65 million years ago, the dinosaurs would probably still be around.
Are you speculating this, or are you some kind of specialist?
Not a specialist in any kind of career or credentials sense, but I've been studying aspects of how brains work with a background in electrical engineering for a long time now, and I have taken some relevant undergrad psychology courses.
Time passes more slowly for flies, study finds
Reptiles are the Real Bird Brains
It's a good likeness, although I've quit smoking.
Your whole question is contradicted by the fact that not all birds survived, like the pterodactyl, so the statement "birds survived where other dinosaurs died out" is false. You're a dodo for making this mistake.
Not bird.
Say what you will about our @Hanover, he's an intelligent and informed person. I think he's having us on. Setting us up for a smartypants comeback.
And they're not dinosaurs either.
I thought he was seizing the opportunity to call Frank a dodo.
If birds descended from dinosaurs, why are they warm-blooded? Perhaps being warm blooded was what allowed the ancestors of birds to survive the 'nuclear winter' following the asteroid strike.
Psychologists solve mystery of songbird learning by taking into account the higher flicker-fusion rate of birds.
Intelligent yes. Informed, only within strict limits.
Perhaps. Will the real @Hanover please stand up.
Carry on.
Modern birds didn't descend from pterosaurs--flying lizards; birds' ancestors were small, feathered, terrestrial dinosaurs. Birds' ancestors were small theropods, a group which includes T Rex. Those chirping little wrens? They are dinosaurs.
Birds's ancestors were meat eaters; they still had teeth. Their diet probably had something to do with their survival. Plus, they were small and warm blooded.
The thing that I find remarkable is that dinosaurs did not disappear over a few days' time after the meteorite smashed into earth, creating the Chicxulub crater. The current estimate is 33,000 years after Chicxulub meteorite.
Intelligence: 7.5/10
Sense of humour: 8.5/10
Wisdom: 7/10
Affability: 6/10
Fairness: 9/10
Taste: 4/10
@T Clark:
Intelligence: 7.4/10
Sense of humour: 1.5/10
Wisdom: 3/10
Affability: 8/10
Fairness: 0/10
Taste: 7/10
@Jamal:
Intelligence: 7.6/10
Sense of humour: 9/10
Wisdom: 5/10
Affability: 6/10
Fairness: 9/10
Taste: 8/10
Yeah. Fuck yez both.
What about Big Bird. Did he survive?
So predictable.
Indeed, but sometimes it’s difficult to tell the difference between your subtle witticisms and your unhinged paranoid rants.
No question you're subtle, sophisticated, and highbrow. It's not lost on me.
Remember that time with the creeping on location stuff?
Too soon?
No no, water under the fucking bridge.
This is also true but simply speaks to the complexity of my jokes as well as my rants as well as the giant size of my brain.
Is that when your gonads are so big you gotta haul them around in a wheelbarrow?
If it is, you better get to a doctor quick else the ladies gonna be on you like white on rice.
What the hell does that mean?
I recently read a book in which at least one of the male characters had orchitis, aka swollen baws.
Jesus holy fucking Christ. That saying is known by everyone. White is all over rice, so the saying means a lot. A lot. Think of it that way. Like saying "moth to a flame."
Sounds like a good book. I got diagnosed with encephalitis so I had the missus nut me over and over thinking that would help, but now I get why my head bout sloded out my ears despite the rivers of spooge.
Now why the low ranking on taste?
:ok:
Now I'm even more confused. It must be the encephalitis kicking in. or the orchitis. I can't really tell anymore.
Also you can't combine all four of those together. It just reads awkwardly. I thought you would know that.
Nobody describes the color of something by saying the color is "on" it. Nobody. I'm done here.
https://youtu.be/kX1HRWr_B5M?t=295
T=4m55s
I agree, but I say beeswax instead of business, and I don't respond to "business."
It's 'hydrocephalus' that causes the brain to swell up -- but only if you're a baby. When an adult's brain
swells up, you just drop dead. (The ancient Egyptian treatment for a swelling brain was 'trepanning' where they'd drill a hole in your head to relieve the pressure. Amazingly, it worked and people survived and the hole healed -- sometimes, anyway. Trepanning is still used. They were always drilling holes in people's heads on Gray's Anatomy.
I think I will start using "none of your business" when I see that on a form.
Facts-On-File is a free service only when it's not requested. If you ask, I have to charge. It's quite expensive,
You'll note I did not request information from you, I speculated that you might provide it.
You lawyers and your legal language. I do remember that one. I think it was from the State of Georgia vs. Some Seven Year Old Kid.
Yeah, but still though.
(My best friend growing up used to say that when we would argue. I think it started me on the downward spiral of philosophy, as I recognized even as a kid what a vapid comeback it was. He still won every argument though.)
I'm pretty sure Jeffery Dahmer tried that out as well.
Are those Buffalo Wings? I can't see the ingredients, but they look all puffy with batter. What kind of wing is that, with batter? I heard that when wings became popular in the US, twenty years ago or whatever, it quickly became the most expensive part of the chicken to buy.
Since it is clearly trademarked, you owe them a royalty.
No, the breasts are the most expensive. There was an issue with wings back during Covid times when prices spiked. I can't remember why. Very tough times though limiting my wing intake.
Eggs got really expensive too recently, but they're coming back down. I'm immune to that problem because I have chickens.
I'm a big fan of the chicken thigh. I don't think it gets its due.
If there's room. If not, just check all the boxes.
I might have been commiting trademark infringement if I had used the joke to sell buffalo wings, but anyway, I surmise that the joke was around before Buffalo's Wild Wings's logo and that it isn't covered by the trademark anyway.
They weren't in the freezer, which means they were fresh, or maybe rather "fresh", if you know what I mean.
The shocking thing is the Germans' incompetence and obvious low quality of their American-style branding and products. Lidl's special edition stuff is usually good, but with the American stuff, it's like they don't even care. For one thing, the proper spelling of Mcennedy is surely McKennedy.
Tell it to the judge.
I went to Lidl's for the first time and thought its selections limited. The scallops were 2 pounds for $10, which is just over $4.99 per pound (I'm guessing as I don't have a calculator handy), which is too cheap to be trusted. I bought them anyway, as I too am too cheap to be trusted. They tasted fine, but still. But still means something vague hangs out there that is sketchy. I will not be back. Mark my words. I will not be back.
So let me get this straight. You went to Oban, on the coast and famous for its fresh seafood, including scallops, and you bought a bag of frozen ones from a budget supermarket?
I should raise your taste score because I agree with you about this. When I don't cook a whole chicken I normally cook whole legs, which include the thigh. Roasted for 40 minutes, high heat.
What I like about Ireland is they say County Cork and not Cork County like they would say in US. Those folks are fun that way.
I heard that there are a lot of jobs in Jeopardy in America!
I don't think edible animal body parts should be called the same as human ones!
Makes me wanna turn veggie!
@Noble Dust says me putting corn in my guacamole is anathema, but I'll show you real anathema - toaster pancakes.
This is a cow, but they are closely related to buffalos.
I've always liked dark meat better than white and thighs give you the largest meat/bone ratio.
I like the mouthfeel of thighs.
What about reheating homemade pancakes in the toaster?
Yes, compared to the breast white meat that is is very dry, the thigh mea…um wait, are we still talking about chicken?
Not recommended, but also not sacrilegious. You do get points for not being wasteful. I've been known to roll leftover room temperature pancakes around leftover room temperature sausage links, dip them in syrup, and eat them.
:grimace:
If we can call a slice of Lorne sausage a “patty” (a word that is never used in the UK and sounds embarrassing and ridiculous), then a full Scottish breakfast has all three, plus black pudding (blood sausage) and haggis.
All of the above please, plus scrapple and ham.
This looks troubling.
Quoting T Clark
Are you secretly Amish?
Too square?
I'm not so secretly originally from Delaware.
I only knew scrapple as a Pennsylvania Dutch thing, but google now shows me that it's eaten in other states as well. Strange.
Ham with breakfast is unnecessary to me except, ironically, when used in my favorite breakfast dish: Eggs Benedict. I know I've sang it's praises before.
Quoting Jamal
Too mysterious. What's it made of? Cow ear?
I like bacon, but more in things or on a sandwich.
Scrapple sounds like something that would be made on a German farm when they butchered ein Schwein in the fall. Else, why would they have all these odd parts which pigs don't readily give up, one by one?
Do you make the sate sauce yourself?
Once cooled sufficiently, I doused her in duck sauce and slivered her finely onto croissants and washed her down with pints of steaming hot espresso.
Not sure what I'll enjoy for brekky tomorrow. Today will be hard to outdo.
No, never tried that. Local Asian restaurant do a good one though.
Hurry while stocks last.
Quoting Noble Dust
Quoting Noble Dust
I’m a bacon man myself but you are right that breakfast sausage works better on its own as a side. I’m not sure I know anyone who orders patties. Seems inappropriate or something.
Quoting Hanover
That’s a potato you dimwhit.
How did you know my nickname?
I used internet magic to find your address, then I zoomed in all the way on google maps and read Fred's phone number you wrote on that napkin on the kitchen table. Then I texted him and asked what your nickname was.
What's with "scrapple"? We have all these different beautiful sausages with beautiful different names, and then there's the ugly, "scrapple". Is it the scrap of the sausage? But isn't sausage already made from scrap? So what's scrapple, the scrap of the scrap?
Eggs Benedict is normally made with Canadian bacon, although I think it would be better with ham, which I think is moister and fattier.
I grew up in Delaware, where scrapple is popular. It's made from a lot of the left over pork and ham trimmings. They're ground up fine and mixed with cornmeal and are usually spiced with a lot of black pepper. Once it's prepared, it's put in molds or pans and comes out in a loaf. The loaf is cut into slices which are then fried. My father always liked it sliced really thin and fried crisp. I like it sliced thicker - up to 1/4 inch - then fried till the surface is crisp but the insides are still moist. The cornmeal gives it a texture a bit like polenta and it tends to be very peppery.
It's really different from other breakfast meats. You should try it if you get a chance. Although it is a Pennsylvania/Delaware product normally, I've seen it in stores elsewhere.
I take comfort in knowing things never got so desperate in Georgia that we had to endure livermush, but should one day you visit, I'll boil up a pig head for you and make you a livermush sandwich to remind you of home, not to crisp, not to mushy, but just right.
Excellent point. No one really knows what Canadian Bacon is anyway; most likely fake news.
Imagine ordering a plate of bacon in Canada and receiving round pieces of ham. You'd remember that day forever and never come back.
I've actually had scrapple on a number of occasions, not bad as a garbage meat. I guess it's kind of like baloney with some corn filler. I think the big difference is that baloney is in a big roll, and scrapple is small, so fried baloney makes a delectable main course, the Newfoundland Steak, whereas fried scrapple only serves as a side, usually for breakfast.
I hadn't heard of it, so I looked on the web. Apparently it's a type of scrapple that contains more pig liver than the kind from further north typically has. It was brought down by Germans from the mid-Atlantic. My son's girlfriend grew up in western Virginia in a Mennonite community. I'll ask her if they had it there.
I would certainly try it if I had a chance. You should check your local gourmet store. I'm sure they have an artisanal brand. Extra virgin liver mush.
Focus your anger on something bigger, like how it has grown legs and that we're now talking about it in the Shoutbox.
How else can you be true to yourself and not the puppeteer?
"Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will rule your life and you will call it fate.” Carl Jung.
"This above all: to thine own self be true." Shakespeare.
When you meet the puppeteer and take the marionette strings from him, realize he was already you all along.
He's just been trying to protect me, so I'm loved and accepted, so the cops don't profile me, so I'm safe and sound in the bosom of respectability.
If I was miserable, he kept me alive until I was powerful enough to take the strings for myself and make my world into something I love.
:heart:
https://www.axios.com/2023/06/29/scotus-decisions-affirmative-action-colleges
What do you think the overarching effects of this decision will be? Short or long term.
I think many universities are committed to diversity initiatives, so they'll have to arrive at processes that result in diverse outcomes but that don't directly discriminate on race.
For example, if SAT scores and AP (advanced placement) grades and scores disproportionately favor certain races and disfavor others, they will have to be replaced with more subjective methods (work or volunteer experience, recommendation letters, etc.).
If those alternative selection methods effectively select top candidates, then the problem is solved. If not, and the student level drops, those universities that use them will damage their brand and have to decide what to do.
I also think many universities will not adjust their application process, particularly public universities in conservative states, and they'll just let the chips fall where they may.
What is abundantly clear from the current data is that a strict GPA/ACT or SAT selection method without affirmative action rules will result in greatly reduced numbers of certain minorities into universities and that without some other method being decided, those historically discriminated groups will be most negatively affected.
We are not talking about the Sleeping Beauty Problem, we are talking about the "Sleeping Beauty Problem" problem.
What kind of bird? Perhaps the Holy Spirit [s]disguised as a[/s] is a squirrel eating sea gull? I mean, the dove is kind of wimpy bird.
Thank you for sharing that and making part of his life influence mine.
Quoting Hanover
I'm not sure what to think about the new wise guru @Hanover. Perhaps the obscene court jester @Hanover was just a ruse to charm us into his cult.
Just for the sake of authenticity, did the bird emulation, leave any deposits on the floor, as it followed the cross down the center aisle?
If I get to 96, I think the shock will kill me!
Depends on the person. If the other person is talking a lot and you think they're the sort that would do better dating quietly, it's best to set the boundaries for later in the relationship by telling them. "I think you would do be better shutting up more. "
What about two people resisting the urge to talk for the entire first date? Letting the social ''awkwardness'' just build and build without giving in to it? Then on the second date, allowing themselves only one sentence each and having to wait for the precise right moment to deploy it. Etc.
How about this crap show as a dating idea?
My kind of first date.
It looks like a stork.
You're the last one left not in my cult. I haven't chosen you yet.
Perhaps not.
A Delaware city wants to let businesses vote in its elections. It just cleared a key hurdle, but it’s faced pushback
[sup]— Jeanne Sahadi · CNN · Jun 30, 2023[/sup]
Would still come down to what a bunch of people say, right? Does that mean some people would effectively have a bit more than 1 vote, sort of?
People don't know when they're in a cult. It's so bad, I can tell you you're in one, and you'll deny it. Like you just did.
Heart of the Beast puppets tend to be more stork-like than gullible, but I didn't have a link to a stork eating a squirrel or delivering a baby.
Some of the puppets are very large and are managed by several people, like this one from the May Day Festival of years past, on the pond in Powderhorn Park. Spring conquered Winter. It was a very popular event, but a lot of work to produce. After 30 +/- years of doing it they had to focus on other things.
Did they have a human sacrifice after the battle?
I didn't say anything about whether or not I am in your cult. I only said perhaps Jamal is not the only member who is not in your cult.
It's an asylum dear. When you stop being confused, we'll let you go.
Sounds like a typical Saturday night out, ending at 3am in a Glesga night club!
Put in your calendars that we'll be having another Kool Aid and Kommunion Kracker party this July 4th at midnight. Meet me down at the underground Worldly Pleasure Hall 15 minutes early. Han-ver's Helpers are to be wearing their Helper Garments and should bring their magic shillelaghs (<1" girth PLEASE).
If you bring a friend, you'll be rewarded with extra bread at breakfast and get 7 Godlly Keys, increasing your chances of opening the Heavenly Border Wall and living forever in peace in the lap of Han-ver.
Note: the dash is used so as not to spell the name of the Holy.
Forever in Han-ver! (responsive chant follows).
I saw Judas talking to some cops, but it shouldn't be a problem.
You had to ruin that song for me, didn't you?
Funny. I almost apologized for the sacrilege in posting it as I did, but I figured I'd just go with it.
I only respond in song.
Good, perhaps you can answer this guys questions at last!
In any event, here's my video response:
Look up 'Laibach, jesus christ superstar,' on youtube.
Wow! I'm a truck and a pony, now that's gods damned magic!
Did you know Houdini was Jewish?
I know everything about Jewish people.
Typical theist, scared that everyone is trying to shoot that thing at them and they are incapable of logical addition and are too ugly to kiss. Keep It Simple Stupid!
Either that, or I just like this line:
"Share a smoke, make a joke
Grasp and reach for a leg of hope
Words to memorize, words hypnotize
Words make my mouth exercise
Words all failed the magic prize
Nothing I can say when I'm in your thighs"
Thinking about that Camaro has Hanover's intuition telling him that real men drive pickup trucks, thus the Freudian slip.
Probably, but as a mere atheist, how can I (would it be healthy to,) know the ineffable mind of han-ver the magician?
Would you buy his lil ol bottles of Dr G o [s]o[/s ] d!
It might depend on the difference between wholesale and retail price.
That's what evanhellicals call god's money, before they deposit it in their personal bank accounts and spend it on ........, and ........, and booze!
So I got a Camero as a rental car on my recent trip, and I liked the look, but it had really bad blind spots and the interior was cramped, the console with very little space.
The long hood and low air dams made it very conducive to running into parking lot barriers, but so far, the rental place hasn't found the dent.
I'm going to opt out, maybe looking at a Mustang. Still nice and rednecky, and it too comes in a manual.
If that's not good, maybe a mini-van with a racing stripe
What??? No pope-mobile
Cheaper version:
Look at the crowds of fans you could attract as han-ver!
Where did the Israelites originally come from?
Must I recite to you the tale of Abraham, Isaac, and most importantly Jacob, who wrestled with the angel and had his name changed to Israel, giving birth to the 12 sons who each got their lots (the Levites a bit differently though), but the largest being Judah, from which the name Jew derives.
Two thoughts 1) You were already confused before. 2) No. That's just a misspelling. The forum is cute, not a cult.
I meant where did they really come from.
I've always assumed you look exactly like groundskeeper Willy.
My ancient ancestors putzed around in the Israelish region starting back some I don't know maybe 2500 to 3000 years ago. They weren't called Jews yet and the religion started and evolved, and then kapow!, they became Jews, moved to the ATL, got goats in the burbs, and what else do you need to know?
The Abraham story was better. He banged Hagar and Sarah the wife cast out her baby Ishmael and his Arab descendants have been pissed off beyond repair since.
And then Melville and his whale.
I can live with that, I see you more as:
Here's Norman himself waiting for his next big inspiration
In Oliver Sacks' "The Man who Mistook his Wife for a Hat," he describes in one account a likable enough man who has a short term memory that lasts but a few minutes, so he continually goes through the same introduction and pleasantries every few minutes and the guy has no idea of the repeating pattern.
Why are you asking me to answer any question about the literal accuracy of Christian Bible? Again, I'm neither a literalist nor a Christian.
Wagoner is very classic, old school, sit on the front porch, listen to the buzzing and crackling AM radio gospel music of a bygone era. It's like listening to yesterday, so I like that part of it.
Spirit in the Sky is that catch you off guard "Shit, am I singing along to cranked up Jesus music?" Like, who am I?
I remind myself when i listen to it, it's not from a believer in the particular lyrics, but from someone who has captured an essence of what a genre can be at its best.
There is "something" about the whole late 40s, 50s A.M. radio milieu. I didn't hear much gospel music back then, but the Grand ole Opry (started in 1925) was still on a.m. radio, and on Sunday morning there was a CBS show, the "Renfrro Valley Gathering" which, btw, is still running -- somewhere. I haven't heard it in decades; it was too corny. "Music and the Spoken Word" from the Mormons in Salt Lake (started in 1929) is also still on, probably on CBS. That was very high brow compared to Renfro's low low low brow salvation show.
I didn't like country music much when I was a kid (my folks didn't like it) but I do now as an occasional listening session. I like the plaintive quality, and some of the themes. Some people hate country music because a lot of the singers reach too many notes by coming close, then sliding onto them, or like Earnest Tubbs, sliding off. It's style, not incompetence (the generous interpretation).
Are you, as a theist, only capable of answering or thinking within your own small, stifling borders of your own notions of theism? can you not comment on theisms wider and bigger picture?
In jesus christ superstar, the questions in the song are quite reasonable and as you have declared yourself a god called han-ver, I thought that you might now be able to answer them. Like all god posits and promises you as the god han-ver are yet another fake, and another disappointment to the human species. I would stick to being hanover, you can probably handle the remit.
If you wish to admit to being unable to contrast and compare your own theism with general theism and how it manifests in other people and groups, and how those manifestations or atheism, might challenge your own positions on theism, then fair enough, do so, and your narrow, shallow, isolationist theistic position will be better revealed and understood.
Much better version:
Mudcracks for the ages!
Can I not defend a position not my own that I disagree with? I guess I could, but so can you. So, now that you've explained your rules, tell me why a belief in Jesus is something near and dear to your heart.
Quoting universeness
You do realize how stupid this is? You are arguing that I truly believe myself a god, that a Broadway musical score has defeated Christianity, and that as a Jew, I should be able to defend the legitimacy of Christian fundamentalism.
Quoting universeness
And it just got stupider. I need to respond to your questions about a Messiah I don't believe in so I'll better understand what I do believe in?
If you want to know why people accept Jesus, you'll need to ask them, not me.
It's near and dear to my heart because imo, it's the biggest con job in history and it's pernicious affects are still being felt today. You yourself, as a theist are not convinced that the historical Christ existed. So, I wonder if your personal theism might also be based on very dodgy/flimsy logic and evidence and you might be able to challenge it more, in your own thoughts.
Quoting Hanover
No, I am just playing along with your joke and projecting its fantasy play on its implied presuppositions (such as OOOO etc), to see if it might lead somewhere that might allow you, as a jew, to challenge your own personal theistic dalliances. I fully accept and think that 'Jew' is a national or tribal identity as 'people originally based in the levant region,' and not a purely theistic label that refers to 'a religious group also known as the chosen people of the abrahamic/sumerian/canaanite, god Yahweh from a pantheon of similar gods created at that time, from the imagination of humans.
From wiki:
[i]Yahweh was an ancient Levantine deity, and national god of the Israelite kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Though no consensus exists regarding the deity's origins, scholars generally contend that Yahweh emerged as a "divine warrior" associated first with Seir, Edom, Paran and Teman, and later with Canaan. The origins of his worship reach at least to the early Iron Age, and likely to the Late Bronze Age, if not somewhat earlier.
In the oldest biblical literature he possesses attributes typically ascribed to weather and war deities, fructifying the land and leading the heavenly army against Israel's enemies. The early Israelites were polytheistic and worshipped Yahweh alongside a variety of Canaanite gods and goddesses, including El, Asherah and Baal. In later centuries, El and Yahweh became conflated and El-linked epithets such as El Shaddai came to be applied to Yahweh alone, and other gods and goddesses such as Baal and Asherah were absorbed into Yahwist religion.[/i]
Quoting Hanover
I do, regularly, I ask you to comment on particular theistic issues, just as a form of general probing and prodding and as a means to an end goal, of exploring the thought processes and justifications behind your own theism. I also get the odd bonus, in that it also prods some of your defenders such as ignoble dust.
All good clean fun imo, and a chance for folks to be indignant and offended in a healthy way, without feeling forced to meet in a field and sort it out via hand to hand combat.
If my effort at some point, results in me getting banned from TPF, then, I enjoyed my time here and I will focus on other sites, no pain no gain.
This might be of some use to other readers or it may not be. It's a kind of 'brain storming' that I enjoy and I am sure you enjoy it to, in between chatting with others in the shoutbox about food relationships, what Frankenstein style food concoctions you create in your kitchen and your (acquired taste) attempts to be whimsical.
Is it so much to ask that you provide me a Jewish Atlanta band? It's hard for me to identity otherwise.
You're right. The Jewish guy missed that. Why have a Jesus if you're perfect?
I am all that is necessary (OOOO), why would I create?
I create to be able to judge what I have created.
'Let there be light and I saw the light and the light was good?' (an example of god creating and judging)
Was this when I invented good and bad and light? no light before then?
I needed such, to judge what I created.
Why did I create humans and burden them with sin and judgement?
1. The universe exists, so theists (people who believe a god exists) are forced to accept that god chose to create.
2. Creation is an act of will and intent, that suggests creation was necessary.
3. Necessity suggests a previous state of need or incompleteness.
4. God + creation must therefore be more than god alone, because god chose to create.
5. Creation of humans requires sin so that humans can be judged.
6. Theists claim god hates sin, the scriptural evidence., so god created that which it hates.
Suggested conclusion, it was irrational for god to create, as god + creation cannot be necessary or better than god alone, due to OOOO. God is stupid or does not exist.
I didn't put this in a thread, as I thought TPF could do without another god thread right now.
So I just put it in the shoutbox so that @hanover and other theists get a chance to call me a one truck pony again. I heard this style of anti-theist argument or similar, used on the pinecreek doug youtube channel with Doug.
I like a lot of his extheist output.
As @Hanover notes:
Quoting Hanover
When I lived in southern Virginia, I used to watch the Porter Wagoner show from time to time. He was a really big deal and he brought Dolly Parton to public attention. She wrote "I will always love you" to him.
Mostly, his kind of country music is not the kind I listen to, but I like some of his songs. Here's one I really like. One of the best things about country music is that it's not afraid to walk the line between corny and funny for fear of falling off.
I didn't know that; Parton's lyrics and performance are very sweet.
Quoting universeness
I agree that what you posted is "a version" but it's not better or even good.
Quoting Hanover
Just pretend they are from Atlanta. It's all a state of mind anyway.
:grin: One mans meat is another mans poison.
In June 1986, Doctor and the Medics reached No. 1 on the UK Singles Chart with their version of the song, spending three weeks at the top.
I liked their version far more that Greenbaum's as they dressed better for the part.
It reached number 1 in the UK again with another version by Gareth Gates.
:hearts: :hearts: :razz:
And your point was what? You like singing Mormons?
When have I ever claimed to have a point. Show me in the records! :blush:
(that video made me think of Donnie, only slightly less cheesy lol).
I assume you mean the Doctor and the medics video. Nothing wrong with a bit a cheesy.
I liked the two ghost like female dancers and the guy dressed a little like Dr Strange having a bad hair day. He was one of my fav Marvel characters:
A little Cheese can hit the spot sometimes.
[hide]or a whole lotta cheese!
Here are cultural sludge pumps providing material for your next post:
An industrial strength solvent might be needed.
Yeah, the Bollywood Gareth Gates version is pretty bad. Maybe if Donny and Marie reformed just to do da new version, it would get to number 1 in America and the UK. Are they still Mor[s]m[/s]ons? Can mor[s]m[/s]ons sing such a song, and still get to mor[s]m[/s]on heaven?
You can be so bitter and cranky! :flower:
Ahhh! The great famous Velveeta mines of Texas. Yellow …erm… gold! :yum:
How did you get to 57 years of spared experience from 1984 until 2003?
Where did you pull the other 18 years from?
2003-1984 = 19 plus the 20 years before I posted the reveal to you, means 39 years of spared experience, where did the other 18 years come from?
What i do like about klezmer is that it offers clarinetists employment opportunities outside the high school marching band.
I like it. :up: Generally I've found country music to be kitsch. But I only know Johnny Cash, Merle Haggard and Kinky Friedman, who seem to elevate the form. Generally it is not an aesthetic I go for.
That's the thin line between humor and corny I was talking about. No doubt a lot of country music gets on the wrong side of the line and a lot of it is just general pop crap with maybe a steel guitar thrown in. I didn't really listen till I got older and I got there through folk music and then bluegrass.
Aesthetic preferences aside, there is an embrace of contradiction that is part of the action:
But for arithmetic, 1986 to 2023 and 2003 to 2023 = 57. If you'd like a different number, that can be arranged. 39 is a nice number -- Jack Benny's age.
I had a similar experience. One of my entrees to country music were films like Tender Mercies with Robert Duval (1983). Another was the juke box at the Gay 90s bar I frequented in the early 70s -- there were a number of country songs that were played a lot (like Tammy Wynette's Stand By Your Man). Several friends sang gospel and country songs at get togethers, again in the 70s. What I once didn't like became OK.
I got interested in folk music for a few years in the 70s; I found a lot of remaindered "authentic" folk records, which weren't country (some of it was blue grass), but the music lacked the polish of the big folk groups like PP&M or the Chad Mitchell Trio. I came to like this kind of sound (at least for a while).
As a child, I associated country music with places that I had come to think of as disreputable -- the beer bars in our small town, the pool hall, and the like. There was nothing wrong with these places, actually, save for parental disapproval.
What I first heard of country music didn't have a lot of aesthetic variety. It all sounded very twangy, whiny, mostly about regret. Lots of regret. I didn't relate to the narrative the songs recounted back then. Now I have lots of regrets myself, and the songs are more meaningful.
I don't have any knowledge (technical or historical) about how the music was produced, but my sense is that the equipment used in the 40s and 50s -- microphones, studio spaces, recording devices, etc. produced a certain kind of sound that gage country music a distinct sound -- the same way that radio dramas and comedy shows had a sound flavor.
I don't know when or how the piece below was recorded -- might be on current state of the art equipment. -- but including the background noise in the opening makes it "sound right". Then there's the stretch limo parked next to the chicken coop, and Bill Monroe playing IN the coop,
People joke that country music is all about drinking and getting divorced, but I've always found that good country music, or at least the kind I like, is about stories. And I'm not the only one to notice that the songwriters of country have a lot in common with the pop songwriters of the 40s and 50s - tin pan alley. And they talk about love that is not just about a man or women, but parents, children, country, and God. Many of the songs are also cleverly written and funny. And I find many of them moving.
Do you play banjo BC? I've only heard that joke spoken by banjo players
BTW, a lot pop country music today seems to be rock with a banjo thrown in, along with the distinctive country voice.
Oh well, I guess I can't say that anymore.
You're right. At the gym I go to, they play bland pop music everywhere. Really annoying. After listening for a while, I realized how much it sounds like a lot of mainstream country. I imagine what the songs would sound like if I added some steel guitar.
Quoting BC
Something to keep in mind, "Rhapsody in Blue" would sound stupid using a banjo instead of a clarinet.
In the elevator where I work, they play some kick ass Muzak. The other day, the spin master rocked some "Oh Mandy." While they didn't play the lyrics, i knew them well and sang then under my breath, just like any man who has known times too tough to speak of.
That Mandy. She gave without taking. A fucking saint she was. Brought him back to life she did. Talk backwards I do. Can't stop doing this I say.
You shouldn't have to work in an elevator. Talk to your partners about getting an office.
Wow, an elevator operator as well as an attorney? How do you find the time?
I guess you've redeemed yourself after that George Harrison sacrilege. I've never had tears in my eyes when listening to Mandy before.
Does it get old when people crowd your space while you're trying to have a client meeting? I imagine confidentiality can be an issue, even if riders are only hearing snippets.
Please note I was first. I wouldn't have been tasteless enough to step on another's joke.
When I looked up "Rhapsody in Blue on banjo video" on Google I got two hits. I used the more annoying of the two.
Thank you for pointing this out. I will go through all the records and do a full audit about who said what and when. I expect it to take a while, but if you're correct in saying what you're saying about what you said, there will be hell to pay by somebody.
You will not go unavenged.
Maybe, by a minute. But my post was longer, and I probably wrote the first sentence at least a few minutes before you posted.
I'm going to make me a heaping bowl of egg salad and will likely eat a good bit of it as my mastercelebatory act for Independence Day. Any one else have such monumentous plans?
Thinking I might wash it down with ice tea so it doesn't just sit there all clogging up my throat, but I'm open to suggestions. Not wedded to that idea, so do let me know.
:up:
Dimwhit,
Last night some friends and I had a small party. We made Chicago-style hot dogs and some burgers. I made a bad ass potato salad. I'm so fucking good at making potato salad. The dogs were amazing. Of course we couldn't find neon green relish, sport peppers, or poppy seed buns, but they were close enough to the real thing. The burgers were smash burgers with my friends secret burger sauce and heirloom tomatoes. Simple. We drank a bunch of wine, as we tend to do.
I imagine the H in your spelling provides a certain swishing sound when you say it, and that adds the pizzazz I've been looking for.
Quoting Noble Dust You do make a wonderful potato salad. Not too mushy, not too crunchy, not too bland, not too salty, not too beige, not too sparkly. It's like a starchy crunchy mouth celebration. Quoting Noble DustIn corporate speak, I'm going to have to give a little pushback on this. You're in NYC, and giving a nod to the windy city isn't just inappropriate, it's God damned fucked up to all shit. It's like going to a NY hole in the wall pizza place and getting a deep dish pizza casserole or whatever the fuck they make in Chicago and thanking the guy for the amazing pizza. Sorry for the pushback, but gotta keep it real.
Quoting Noble Dust
The secret sauce is Thousand Island dressing and those were Big Macs, not smash burgers. They are delicious though, just in moderation. Be careful with them.
This elevator is so annoying BTW. I mean the music is kick ass, but the bell dinging is distracting and my desk barely leaves room for my staff.
His banjo performance is what one hopes for. At least that's my "knows-nothing-about-banjo-playing" opinion.
Live bluegrass is really cool. If they play any gospel music, they like it if you dance the whirling dervish dance. You just put your arms straight out and spin around in circles.
That's the Grateful Dead hippie girl dance also. I think they're both hillbillies genetically.
You are now ready to try clog dancing:
Edit: I feel like I should tag @T Clark because this feels like the type of honest, wholesome content that he provides.
Quoting Hanover
I don't know why the fuck you think pronouncing the H is a swishing sound. I'm not gargling while I say that. Jesus.
Quoting Hanover
:cry: I'm so glad you liked it - wait, what the fuck? Are you creeping on my VPN again? Were you that weird guy hiding in the shadows last night that nobody knew?
Quoting Hanover
I have no defense. My New Yorker card has been revoked before it was even issued.
Quoting Hanover
If I was you, which I'm not, thank fucking satan, I would be having stomach problems from all the fucking up and down motion. Not to be confused with the up and down motion that is sometimes (but not always) involved in the act of fucking. Anyway, this constant up and down could ultimately be beneficial, though. Assuming there are multiple elevators that operate at the same time in your building, if I throw up on riders often enough, my personal elevator office would accrue such a notorious reputation that riders would actively avoid it, leaving me to contemplate the finer points of law in peace while smoking my pipe and constantly moving at a brisk up and down pace.
I think I'm better at your style of humor than you, honestly.
I draw the line at yodeling and never had to record it, thankfully.
I actually have always celebrated July 4th, mainly it has to be said because it’s my birthday, but I do also celebrate the independence of countries and nations such as the US which shook off the might of the British Empire.
I'll be having wine, Mediterranean food, and maybe a negroni. None of those are especially American, but I'll be thinking of y'all.
It is reminiscent of the Hanoverist tradition, but obviously not authentic. It's sort of like how Friends
(a cheap knockoff by a second rate competitor with a so so penis) was a response to Seinfeld (an industry leader by one of God"s chosen people with a 7 out 10 penis (better than so so, but room for improvement) (which is true for most of us, right?)). but just didn't fully hit the mark.
However, I shouldn't be too critical because I don't want to discourage anyone from being more me-like.
This reminds me of the time I closely emulated @Jamal's usage of the porridge/ejaculate comparison. That collaboration yielded a new way of seeing the world, and so I encourage you to continue thinking WWHD.
Happy Birthday, mate!
And Happy Independence Day to all y'all!
If by "wholesome" you mean "nothing like @Hanover" then, yes, I agree.
Back in my folkier days I was a fan of Bill Staines. We saw him a few times live. I like yodeling too, in moderation.
Happy birthday! :party:
Quoting Caldwell
Thank you, and thank you, and thank you too.
I had a negroni, a bottle of wine, six courses of food, two large Lagavulins while my wife had two large Baileyses, and I'm now relaxing by the pool. Remind me again why my life is so shit.
Happy birthday. :party:
Edit: aha, yes, you are quite the Cancer.
My wordsmithery is so witheringly spittin' it wilts it's prey to smithereens. Those were some mixed metaphors but I did it on purpose so it works. Anyways, all I'm trying to say is I take someone's style of prose, emulate it, and transcend it. It doesn't matter that it's not authentic just like it doesn't matter if I mix my metaphors, as long as I choose to do it. Or like how this is a circular argument, but I also did that on purpose, and so it's therefore a good argument.
You're ugly
How old were those two beauties?
Aw come on, stoap teasin! 12, 16, 18, 21 or are you rich enough for two glasses from:
at £1650, per bottle?
Quoting Jamal
Yes you are very wrong and I despair, if those two beauties were wasted on you.
You should spend a long time, deep nosing the Lagavulin, until your olfactory is conditioned to appreciate what's coming.
Take a sip and wash it around your mouth but don't swallow, and keep yer geggy SEALED, during the washing. Then swallow and take in a little air simultaneously. The release of complex peaty, smokie, earthy flavours, will overwhelm you, and bring you closer to the star constituents you are formed from and the planet you were spawned on. This is Lagavulin pal, not hospital disinfectant. Perhaps you should stick to something like Bells or Jamesons, or real crap like Jack Daniels.
Then don't dare insult it! Or else you should be banned from Scotland!
Instead, textualise why you loved it, in an attempt to repent and redeem yourself.
I will do better. I will redress the imbalance in the universe created by your insult to the glory that is Lagavulin, by going down to my drinks cabinet, opening my already seal broken, partially drank, bottle of Lagavulin 21 and sniff it for 2 minutes of appreciation. Transmitting that reverence to the universe, should save you from getting banned. It's the single malt equivalent of me praying for your Scottishness!
Yeah ...... You're welcome!
No can do! Nowadays, it has to be Friday or Saturday only! Sniffing ra malt, is as good as it gets during the week.
A smoldering swamp fire, in other words.
Sniffing the malt whisky is the way to the true heart of the malt whisky.
You will always reach whisky climax far too early if don't learn the proper whisky foreplay.
You will lose all the Jam in yer Jamal!
I have never been in a swamp, much less experienced one with a fire in it.
No swamps in Scotland, just some muddy patches.
You've never kayaked among the gators in the Okefenokee??
You type like a Sassenach sometimes. Just cause you don't understand the Uisge Beatha.
No, but I have ran away from the Possil young team and the Cumbie!
When it comes tae single malt whisky, you need to relearn Scottish!
Have you ever heard of Rabbie Burns, William Wallace, Sean Connery and Billy Connolly?
I think Billy wants to express an emotion to you.
The Bells toll for thee, ya total tumshie!
During a slow Saturday night, you never know. If you drink enough, it's sometimes down to how some members of the company are dressed that matters.
K. Lemme know cuz I need to know if I should put my pants back on.
Where do you think peat comes from? Swamps. Peat is just what piles up on the bottom of a swamp. It's the first step on the way to coal -- given millions of years, and a zillion pounds of pressure.
Peatland covers 20% of Scotland's land. Peatland is just dry swamp.
To make your national drug, they suck up a tank of yellowish swamp water (peaty, earthy, smoky); add flavorless alcohol made from corn grown on the former prairies of Iowa; let it sit long enough for the slop to even out. Bottle, label, and hype it.
The Source:
A bog, no a swamp! That's why they are called peat bogs and no peat swamps.
You really need to decide if you’re going to run with the ersatz Scots or stick to standard English. Which is it, numpty? You use “tae” in the first sentence, but then “to” in the last. Make up your mind, Mr Scotchman.
As a Scot a kin type ony mix a vernacular a want, soshoveitupyerglumpher!
Nae scot his tae spoke right England just because an errant Scot, suggests that one absolutely, ought to because its just not cricket, not to, ya Nigel!
I'm fluent, which makes me the true Scotsman.
True dat!
I’m boring myself.
What's your favourite single malt?
Regardless, I'm at least a half true Scotsman.
If you confirm that you have never sniffed it, and then compared it to hospital disinfectant, then you can type as much Gaelic as you like, as far as I'm concerned. But don't forget:
Gaelic and Gallic are two different references. Gaelic is the common but incorrect term for Irish and Scottish traditional languages, both of which are Celtic in origins from the Goidelic branch of the Indo-European family of languages. In Ireland, the language is called Irish, while in Scotland, the correct term is Gaelic. Gallic, on the other hand, is an adjective that means relating to the French. It is derived from the word Gauls, who were a Celtic tribe that inhabited France, Belgium, Switzerland, Germany, and Italy
True Scots is probably Pictish but I can't speak that either.
My sister says Laphroaig tastes like iodine :scream: and her husband (American) thinks it's too peaty!
I say, all the more for me! :grin:
Everyone knows this.
That's Glesga bawbag tae you ya lightweight, two whisky flapper!
Quoting Jamal
For the millionth time, stop exaggerating!
Well no, because the Scoti were an Irish tribe that went over to Scotland and partly displaced or assimilated the Picts.
“Here’s an even wetter, colder place! Let’s go!”
(Paraphrasing B. Connolly)
Touché. Round 5 to you.
I dated a Persian woman briefly, but still too long,
who was very simple and sweet, but boring and annoying, and she offered me a drink when i first went to her place, and I accepted. It was tall glass of Laphroaig accompanied by a glass of water I suppose to chase it down. I truly believe she thought that was just a normal serving, being as she was. . That introduction to the whisky was the only thing of lasting value from the relationship.
I drank it without testing its aroma, but that was more for me not knowing what it was. I feel weird drinking it today, like I'm wearing an old shirt an ex bought me.
Scoti is Irish for Gael and the Gaels founded Dalriada, from Dalriata in Ireland. The Picts conquered Dalriada many times, and eventually the picts and scoti became one under Kenneth Mac Alpin who was a Pict, but he married a Scoti princess to seal the deal and the tradition then was to take the matriarchal identity, leading to Scotland rather than Pictland. However, I do accept that there are disagreements on this origin story of this place getting called Scotland.
Sounds like someone's fixin to have a Scottish history throwdown! Been waiting some time for this. Gonna get ugly fast I'm thinking!
I dated a Canadian woman who had briefly dated a Persian man.
I would have probably moved to Persia, if that is the traditional measure they served.
I would of course, wave away the water.
But I would have been confused and a little concerned by the signs that said 'your are now entering Iraq,' or another that said 'Welcome to alcohol free Iran!' :death: :flower:
Did you replace the Canadian or he you?
In fact, there are no true Scots and I don't think there ever really were. We are all mongrels, all the way back to the African Savannah.
Nice double entendre with the word came.
Aye but yer still a single malt abuser!
So let me get this. You think it’s okay to abuse a chap who says in no uncertain terms that he loves this single malt, just because you don’t like his tongue-in-cheek description (which nevertheless points to a real aroma profile)? That is the height of Scotchish snobbery and brings shame to our great nation.
I very much agree. I always thought the Scottish a special sort, the perfect combination of intellect and kindness, never with a hint of pretentiousness or superiority. But with this exchange, I now reconsider, witnessing a haughtiness typical of the most dastardly breed of English aristocrat, and from one claiming to be a true Scotsman?
If I’m haughty in the manner of the English nobility, it is only to oppose the barbaric idiocy of some of my compatriots.
If I had had enough single malt nectar myself at this point, I would shay shomefing like.
Naw but sheriously man, you talk shome total shite by ra way, but it dushney matter caush were aw jock tamshens bairns an am gonny try an shat up ..... no!! keep the heid man, keep it the gither! Am gonny try an chat up that lassie err there! I will probably be back in aboot 10 sheconds man! :rofl: Hoad the fort!
I love it to be honest. I wish we had sport peppers.
Sassanch.
Glass ye.
Off ye deepy fer ye get a chibbin.
I’m very fond of Caerlaverock Castle.
Looks cool. Why? I've never visited. It's surprisingly out of the way. The roads in the SW make no sense. It's not much longer to go from Edinburgh to Carlisle than it is to go from Stranraer ("the toon") to Dumfries by public transport.
Are you another Dumfries and Galloway expat?
So long as you're not English I imagine you'd get a bit of leeway. Scottish people are insane about what counts as English. Being south of any particular Scotsperson's home counts you as English to them, but only when irritated.
Edit: Unless you're Welsh. I'm conforming to stereotype by forgetting Wales exists.
When I read this I was listening to a Welsh voice, the voice of a Welsh person. They definitely exist.
I forgot to mention I'm also English. And I do remember Wales. That's where the Wrexham KFC restrooms and @unenlightened are.
I say this in particular to give @Michael some moral support as he's the only member I know of who has so declared himself.
A more easy to handle sample for your listening displeasure:
ps. yea, its by "The Nightlosers" ... which I think references the losing of night in favor of daylight or some such. Eight way, I'm pretty sure there was plum brandy involved.
An aperitif?
Quoting Jamal
:smile: No, it's a certified spirit.
Even if so, life, generally speaking, can still be often enough shitty ... and by whom would life have been so certified? A shit-loving certifier? :razz:
In the words of some character from the movie/book The Princess Bride: "Life is pain; anyone who tells you differently is trying to sell you something". (I'm thinking Buddhists, for one example, would be in general agreement here.)
:smile:
That's cool. That song "Goodnight Irene" is one my father used to sing.
Let's get off the booze. Here's a song by Robert Burns about fornication.
Ye jovial boys who love the joys.
The blissful joys of Lovers;
Yet dare avow with dauntless brow,
When th' bony lass discovers;
Pray draw near and lend an ear,
And welcome in a Prater,
For I've lately been on quarantine,
A proven Fornicator.
Before the Congregation wide
I pass'd the muster fairly,
My handsome Betsey by my side,
We gat our ditty rarely;
But my downcast eye by chance did spy
What made my lips to water,
Those limbs so clean where I, between,
Commenc'd a Fornicator.
*****
Fair enough. :razz:
I am English by birth and upbringing, Scottish by extraction and name, and Welsh by marriage and domicile. Accordingly, I have no other recourse but to admit to being a Fucking Brit, in the fond hope of annoying and offending almost everyone as is my tradition.
My only allies are the fascists, the Commonwealth immigrants, and the so called Loyalists of N.Ireland that all we Brits despise and try very hard to forget.
They're hardcore. They do everything without rails. Awesome scenery, though.
BTW, Allah does not allow Islamic mountains to wander around. Nomadic people, sure. Nomadic mountains, not so much.
Apparently when they don't go to Muhammad, he has to go to them.
I read that American roads are more dangerous because we put up rails, signs, wide shoulders, and we bank them so they're safe at really high speeds, so people drive crazy fast. If you make your roads really dangerous, everyone is extra careful.
Maybe that's their strategy.
I was working at a site in Alabama. The road to the site was single lane each way, big drop offs on the side with no rail, few straight sections, narrow shoulders, and a speed limit of 55 mph. The road itself was very well maintained and it was fun to drive. Every few miles there was a white cross by the side of the road, sometimes more than one.
Yes, that path they're taking used to be a giant boulevard. Now it's tiny and much safer.
Shit. I once drove on just such a road on my way to Colorado from California. It was very late at night and pitch black. Thing is, I was thinking about pulling over to urinate. I didn't. Only found out it was such a road on my way back to California while driving in daylight. Cheers or jeers to my yet being in the world aside, it was quite an unnerving experience to find out where I initially wanted to take a piss that night, this on my way back. :grin: A twilight-zone-ish experience. (But yea, I'm still around to take occasional pisses in various locals :razz: :joke:)
But then, if you look at those trucker shows on TV, where big trucks and cars are driving, and passing, on narrow roads in the Himalayas or Andes, you realize our examples aren't in the big leagues.
And so it went, the days long and the nights filled with mystery. I look upon those days on those far away roadways in the midst of the high seas with both joy and sadness, and when I speak of them, nay, when I write about them, I sound like a long winded kook I must say.
Would it really trouble anyone else here to write as I do? I don't think it too much to ask, and it would add a certain sense of decorum now missed in the Shoutbox, the place where all great adventures commence.
Diligently construct your memories in chalk on the pavement
Then sweep it up
And throw it off the mountain into the wind
In the interest of adding a sense of decorum to the Shoutbox...
There was a period in my life when I was spending every other semester in Boca Raton, Florida working at IBM. One weekend a group of us IBM coop students set off on an adventure, to explore Key West and the alcohol there.
One of my fellow adventurers had the porn star name of Rod Pierce, a fact of which Rod was quite proud. Another was Mike, with a somewhat Germanish last name which I can't remember. The last was someone I only knew while on this expedition; whose name I don't recall at all.
About midway through our drive over the Atlantic we stopped to go snorkling. There I had the amazing experience of being inside what seemed to me to be a huge school of small silvery fish. The fish making no real effort to avoid me while also smoothly changing directions such that no matter how I moved they and I had water between us.
I myself would have been happy to end our travels there and continue such explorations. However the alcoholism of some of my comrades was calling them to continue the journey, and so we proceeded to drive across the Atlantic in a southwesterly direction. (Driving in a direction other than southwest or northeast seeming inadvisable.)
Upon reaching our destination we participated in the local custom of watching the sun set. (Meh that evening. I've seen much more spectacular sunsets over seas of corn.) After that ritual was over we proceeded with the serious business of getting profoundly drunk on beer (possibly Corona, but I don't really remember) and peppermint schnapps (which I will never forget due to the headache that lasted two weeks, and the revulsion towards peppermint tooth paste being in my mouth which lasted at least as long).
Late that evening, or perhaps early the next morning, my taste for adventure was exhausted. I told my friends I was going to go wait by the car and went and meditated on vomiting peppermint on the streets of Key West. (Just to be clear, vomitting doesn't play nearly as a big a role in my life as my participation in the Shoutbox might suggest.)
Perhaps a half hour after I arrived at the car my friends arrived, with Rod Pierce being accompanied by a young lady. My memories beyond that point are extremely foggy, but somehow the five of us piled into the compact car, with the young lady sitting on Rod's lap. Via a process which will forever remain a mystery to me, we all ended up in a hotel room where I immediately crawled into one of the two beds and passed out.
The next morning I heard about Rod living out his name, and my missed opportunity to lose my virginity via sloppy seconds. However, that missed opportunity did not sit very high on my list of regrets, and would remain an adventure for a later time.
Two of us had walked over to Bluff Siding, WI opposite Winona, MN to the liquor store. The drinking age was lower in Wisconsin. We bought 2 bottles of rot gut wine and walked back through the swamp along the Mississippi on a railroad track. It was a warm spring night, Midway we stopped and guzzled down this disgusting slop. results: Immediately drunk. The next phase of the walk back was across the Mississippi on a swinging railroad bridge. No rails on the bridge. Luckily, we didn't fall off. At the end of the railroad bridge we had to climb through a scrap metal yard attached to a foundry, then another mile back to the campus dorms.
Very sick for several days. A few years later, I found that I could get equally sick on much better quality wine. I've never gotten sick on beer or hard liquor. I stay away from wine. Headache city.
The way buddhist monks sweep up elaborate sand mandalas and throw them off the mountain or into a river or onto an icy street (depending on geography).
The Buddhists in Minnesota throw the sand onto icy streets. :grin:
I found out the difference between a school of fish and a shoal recently. A shoal is just a bunch of fish, not necessarily all the same species, hanging around in the same area. A school is a bunch of fish, all the same species, moving together in an organized manner.
It is my understanding that fish move the way they do for the same reason flocks of birds do. The movements are caused by individual fish and birds acting in accordance with simple rules depending on the actions of animals immediately next to them. The flocking or schooling behavior emerges from the individual actions of hundreds of animals in a manner similar to the behavior of cellular automata.
Quoting Wikipedia - Cellular Automata
Here's a link to a site where you can play with cellular automata. Go to the site, push the Reset button, which will turn to clear, push Clear. Then you can fill in cells in a pattern. Then push start. A lot of patterns will go extinct in a few moves. Some will cycle. Try larger patterns.
https://playgameoflife.com/
What occurs is that a particular animal displays leadership abilities that are instinctively recognized by the others as undeniably superior to their own and so they hypnotically mimic that behavior because of the certainty it will increase their successes in all matters of survival.
It is known as the Hanover Principle, named after the most pronounced occurrence of it on record.
a) The schnapps were separate shots which we would slam, and then drink the beer at a more leisurely pace. When we got close to finishing our beers someone would buy another round of shots and beers. I know we were in the landmark Sloppy Joe's when I finally gave up, but we did some bar hopping prior to getting there. I'm kind of amazed I was able to find my way back to the car.
b) I believe it was at John Pennekamp State Park on Key Largo that we went snorkling. That fits with my memory of it being about halfway between Boca and Key West.
c) Fish have rows of pressure sensors down the sides of their bodies called lateral lines which enable them to move in schools the way they do. Although I don't know if scientists have figured out how they keep from colliding from above and below. Avoiding collisions from above and below seems like it would be particularly important considering the direction the pointy bits tend to point.
e) I don't know whether Rod was hung commensurate with his name.
Quoting BC
Ah, to feel so young and invincible again. I bought a cheap motorcycle to get around when in I was in Florida. Between the drinking with my social circle down there, and riding a bike, it's a wonder I survived.
I haven't been much of a drinker since my school days, but I think I may be similarly vulnerable to wine. Wine would generally be my first choice in an alcoholic beverage because I like the taste of many good wines, but I do seem to get headaches after drinking even a moderate amount of wine.
So, what about Muscle Shoals, Alabama? [it was the birthplace of the blues and Helen Keller.] What does a shoal of muscle look like -- Arnold Schwarzenegger? (It is Muscle shoals, and not Mussel shoals.)
Also, birds don't have the lateral lines that Wonderer1 mentioned.
So, what are the reasons birds and fish say is behind their synchronized swimming and flying?
Training for the non-mammal olympics.
The dangers of being Scottish.
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8dBnNLu/
Much better example!
"Shoal" can also refer to a shallow place in a body of water.
Only for blanks, planks, and bitter cranks!
People without the know, regarding the parliamo!
In England, a washcloth is called "a flannel' (which is what they used before the Turks invented terry cloth). Are you a washcloth Jesus or a lightly brushed slightly fuzzy fabric Jesus?
From the other room the nurses heard the alarms and when they came in she had flat lined. They asked him what had happened, and he said he didn't know, she just started choking.
Funny you should say this. When I was in England and Scotland, the hotels didn't have washcloths. I bought some while there, and to this day, I keep a washcloth in a pocket in my suitcase so I'll never be without what I have learned is not a universal hotel item.
Not sure what you guys are referring to - a face washer (Australian), perhaps? A 12 inch square of terry cloth? We call it terry-towelling.
I buy very cheap ratty wash cloths at Target. They're good for about a years worth of light use and then they get very thin. A first class wash cloth will last for years but costs a lot more than ratty wash cloths.
Etymology: The name “terry” comes from the French word “tirer” which means to pull out, referring to the pile loops which were pulled out by hand to make absorbent traditional Turkish toweling. Latin “vellus”, meaning hair, has the derivation “velour”, which is the toweling with cut loops.
A 'face' washer is also used on the body. It's just one of those names. I don't often use them. I just use soap and my hand. Sounds salacious...
I think many don't use the washcloth/washrag, but just use soap, and even more commonly a liquid bodywash. In addition to the washrag I always pack, I also bring a bar of soap. The bodywash does not sufficiently lather, particularly not when poured onto the washrag. My thought about the move to the bodywash dispenser is to reduce quantity by making the dispenser difficult to use and by not requiring a partial mini-bar of soap be used and then discarded
To access sufficient bidywash, you will need to remove the dispenser from its holder, take off the top, and the pour the actual quantity you need, and even then, you'll probably want to add some shampoo for it to lather.
My other pet peeve in hotels, especially the nicer ones, is the required valet parking and baggage handlers. You're left waiting in lines and offering tips for people doing things you don't need help with and just slowing you down.
And who has cash for tips? I went to the gift shop to get change for a $20 and the lady said I had to buy something to get change. I just told her no one would get a tip and I left. Everyone stared at me pissed off when I wouldn't tip them, but I was like, your own hotel wouldn't change out my $20, and I'm not buying Tic Tacs as a work around
The Motor Inn. How I long for the Motor Inn. I wasn't raised to think luxury meant being treated like you were handicapped and needed able bodied people to take care of you.
The big toe is the one pedestrian digit that actually does something, and heavy things are always falling on it. Not fair!
It was loose for a few days, but it's seems more secure now.
Quoting BC
Right? Poor thing.
In Scotland people say "facecloth". A flannel is a pie filled with organ meat, chips, and gravy.
I don't use a facecloth. Using just the hands, one can wash one's face with one's hands while simultaneously washing one's hands with one's face. My beard, which is made of short stiff bristles, functions as a brush upon my hands. But I do not use abrasive tools to wash my face because my face is so irritable.
North American problems. Upon alighting from my train at Montreal or Toronto or somewhere like that, I was overwhelmed first by porters and then by taxi-drivers. I'd never experienced that before.
Quoting Hanover
More North American problems. I sympathize, both with you and the workers you left disappointed.
The story goes that service workers in continental Western Europe, particularly waiters, do not expect tips because they are paid properly. I wonder how true that is. Maybe partly.
Russia (5-10%) is more tippy than Spain (0-5%), but not as much as the UK (10-15%).
I'll be old Hooktoe.
You have to tip well in America, especially if gas prices are high, or inflation is high. That said, waiters make decent money in high-end restaurants.
I broke my big toenail at the cuticle by the way I had my feet back under my chair while reviewing the design of a circuit board. Dangerous stuff.
The 60 year old plank of a toenail didn't come off though. New thin baby like toenail is pushing the old toenail off. It's been about six months and now my toenail if half old plank, and half shiny and new.
I figure when the old toenail is gone, the new toenail will be razor thin, in which case I will sharpen it into a weapon to use in case of spies.
:up: Good plan.
I'm so over the out of control tipping culture that has evolved in the US. When I was younger, it was 15% pretty firm, where'd you actually do the math and figure it out. Somewhere along the line 20% became standard and now you see on the credit card machine three options of 22%, 20% and 18%, or you can choose whatever amount you want. They put the 22% first I guess so you'll just click that one.
And the tip option appears everywhere, even restaurants where you order from the counter, get a number, and then have to carry your food back to your table. It's trickled down to fast food restaurants other than the most basic ones like McDonalds and Wendy's, but I'm sure that's coming. We'll be tipping from kiosks soon for having put the kiosk through the trouble of taking our order.
The stupidest of all is the bathroom attendant, where you tip the guy to turn the sink on for you and hand you a paper towel. He usually has a bunch of colognes you can purchase as well. The guy literally works next to a toilet.
I had this big smasher thing that I used to pack the asphalt down on my driveway when I was a kid and I smashed my toe with it. It turned all purple and the toenail fell off, but it came back like yours did.
When I was kid, you were allowed to use smasher things. Now only trained professionals can use them.
Here's a picture of the smasher thing:
My girlfriend has one of those, but with the handle cut down a fair bit. I don't know why.
Her smasher thing sounds like it might be friendlier to her than mine was to me.
It sounds like you weren't a waiter in college. What did you do to make money?
I had a variety of jobs. Let me give you a quick rundown of my CV. I worked as a busboy at a Chinese restaurant, I sold newspaper subscriptions door to door, I worked as a pizza deliverer and pizza cook, and seems like I did some other things too. I can't quite remember them all. I threw newspapers out of my car window onto people's lawns for a short while. That was tricky becasue you had to throw them over the roof across the car. When it rained, your hand got really cold and the cars behind you weren't happy about the pace of your driving, but I didn't mind. I was fully committed to delivering the news. It's my higher calling, which is why I am also diligent here at the Shoutbox keeping people informed.
So you didn't spend much time working for tips? That's why you don't feel a responsibility to take care of them. I'm guessing.
"No thank you."
"So the way it works is that I get more commision for selling this paper than it costs you, so let's split it and I won't tell anyone, so I can get it to you for $7.00."
"Ok, sign me up."
"Hey boss, I just got another sale"
"Why are your sales forms so fucked up looking and why are there checks mixed with cash and a bunch of other crazy bullshit?"
"Hey boss, I just got another sale. Why so many questions?"
"Whatever."
My brother goes to Europe a lot and knows his way around. When we went there together he told me that waiters don't expect tips. He generally just leaves the change from the meal. I think waitering is a more respected job over there.
I worked for tips when I delivered pizza, but I was actually driving out to someone's house and bringing them something. I didn't get 22% handing someone their food from across the counter.
My son was a bartender for 10 years in San Francisco, Detroit, and New Orleans. Service work is really hard - low base bay, no benefits, very chaotic schedules, shit customers, late nights, proximity to alcohol. They depend on tips. I've started tipping much more since the pandemic. Many service people, including my son, were devastated and lost their jobs.
I figure, I have a lot more money then most of them do so I won't be stingy.
Yes, I've noticed that the expected tip has gone up. As I noted in my response to @frank, service is a shit job. I don't begrudge a generous tip. Although I still only give the gas pump 10%.
Me too. In my area, a lot of restaurants still aren't back to where they were. I usually give at least 20%.
I've had a lot of trouble with my big toenail over the years. It comes from wearing bad boots while working outside. I bought these and they work really well, especially while the toe is healing.
Here's a link on Amazon. Tell them T Clark sent you.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074JGZFG3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Toe condoms. Yes, I constructed my own out of bandaids, but it wasn't ideal because everytime I changed them, I disturbed the nail and I was afraid it would fall off. I'll look for the zen-toes the next time I decide to crush a toe.
Except that my big toe is much bigger than my penis.
So I've heard.
Frankly, my prognosis--based on your comment that "I disturbed the nail and I was afraid it would fall off"--is that your nail is past saving and you might as well remove it now. Removing the nail yourself will certainly be a character building experience. Or you could have a doctor do it or let a nail salon rip it off.
Thank you Dr. BC.
In Germany, der Ober is paid, on average, €27,295 a year and €13 an hour, and a 5% - 10% tip would be typical. The average pay of workers in Germany is €22.65.
"Trip advisor. How You Pay: Typically, the waiter/waitress always comes to you and tells you your total. You then tell him/her how much you will pay, i.e. the amount you owe plus any "rounding up" -- for example, the waiter/waitress might say "€7.60;" you hand him/her a €10 note and say "9 Euros." S/he then will give you €1 in change."
My best guess is that my concept will spawn a whole new sense of cooperation among diners, where everyone will work together as a family in a large dining room. For example, if you wanted a scoop of icecream, I'd go back in the freezer and look for some for you, and, if they happened to be out, that'd be my car you'd hear cranking up, as I embarked to the local grocer looking for your special flavor.
We can do what I just described, or we can just keep watching service fall as service fees rise. I think the decision is a simple one.
I trust my brother to know what's what better than your sources.
What I can tell you is that when I went to France and I tried to pay for my VRBO with a mix of Euros and US Dollars, the guy didn't want my US dollars. He also told me to leave him the rest of the money under the place mat once I got it, which I did, but he called me all accusingly, saying I didn't leave him the money, so what the fuck was up. I told him a place mat refers to something on the table, and that he could not find the money under the welcome mat simply meant he was looking in the wrong place. He then looked, and was like all "nevermind" and shit. Yeah, whatever.
Then he called me a week after I got home and he asked me why there was mascara all over one of his washcloths (yeah, I know, right? Another washcloth story, how weird is that?). I told him there was probably mascara on his washcloth because my wife must've used it to take off her mascara. He was like, well, thanks for telling me, and I was like, do you want me to send you a box of washcloths, and he was like it's no big deal, don't worry about it. And I'm like, I'm thousands of miles away and you're asking me about it, it feels like a fucking big deal. I mean, really?
I feel like there was another question posed that I might not have answered.
And then you say "True story."
Other than talking to your brother, it was a true story. I think my demeanor doesn't translate well with the French. Like I took a shuttle from the hotel that was represented to me as being complimentary, and then the guy charged me, so I said, "oh, I thought it was free," but I paid him not really caring, recognizing I might not have understood something, but was just making small talk. If I said that in Atlanta, they'd have just laughed and said "Ain't nothing free" or something like that and that would be that.
But with this French guy you'd have thought I accused him of theft. He just went on and on about how it wasn't free. I told him that's all fine, I don't care. I just thought it was. He then kept going on about it like I insulted him, and I was like I don't know what you think I meant, but I didn't, and I'm tired of hearing you defend yourself about something you've never been accused of. It was like he was hell bent on our having some conflict or something.
Quoting T Clark
"Light Googling" he says. Hrummph!
I would guess, just off hand, that the BBC writer and TripAdvisor staff might, possibly, have had contacts with European countries on at least one or two occasions, quite possibly dozens.
You didn't say what was deficient about what I had found. Our esteemed Jamal and T Clark's excellent brother are, of course, experts, unlike the idiots at the BBC and a travel company nobody ever heard of.
Now that I think of it, the one thing missing from all your stories is the "True story" at the end. I recommend you use it from now on. Better yet "...True story."
True story.
That wasn’t a story.
I’m done here.
Pasta with canned mackerel and ketchup is my new go-to quick and easy meal. Perfect any time of day. Chilis can be added to spice it up.
Harrumph x 10[sup]60[/sup]
I shall address your post in detail later. Prepare to be destroyed.
Except for the ketchup, I've made that -- I used canned tomatoes. Mackerel has a nice firm texture and good flavor.
I eat mackerel a lot. How much is too much, with regard to mercury, I wonder? What does TripAdvisor have to say about it?
Just the usual crippling depression. :party:
:grimace:
I made the usual chicken shawarma, hummus with Syrian pita, and a vaguely Mediterranean white bean salad. I followed the recipe and used cucumbers, and once again, regretted the decision. I managed to make the hummus too thin this time.
FDA usefully has listed mercury concentrations in lots of fish types. Had to use it recently to ensure I wasn't giving myself mercury poisoning from tuna.
Yeah you probably are. That's what I worked out for tins of skipjack tuna anyway. And they've got way more mercury. 3 tins a week on average.
If you accidentally ingest it, you'll need to induce vomiting with three cups of buttermilk you're going to need to drink quickly (as if a teenager slamming beers on spring break). This remedy should work, and you can then resume eating mackerel as you used to.
If the remedy doesn't work, you'll start acting strange, like a mad hatter, which has its plusses and minuses. Trust me.
Freddie Mercury.
Sardines of the world, unite.
Chomsky said he’ll get to the questions when he can— apparently unexpected things turned up for him. Another member reached out and got no response, which makes me worry a little about his health. I don’t want to be too pushy but will follow up eventually if I don’t hear anything.
:chin:
:lol:
We be red snappers.
You did amazing to get this far, dude, whatever else happens.
Thank you. Still, I’ll be pretty disappointed if we don’t get anything. Apparently he’s taking time to rest, according to his wife— and that’s concerning, given that it’s Chomsky.
Me too. Incidentally, it was @Manuel who received the reply from Chomsky’s wife, not me. Just to clarify.
He usually replies extremely quickly and replied to all but perhaps 7 or so out of hundreds.
So, the fact he took so long on this last one, doesn't give me great vibes. At most he may not answer emails during a 2-week period, but no more than that.
So, after not hearing anything from him for over 4 weeks now, I got a reply from his wife, but I'm pretty sure it's an automated reply.
I can only wish it isn't too serious, but given his age, it's normal to worry...
He's 94, very old. Less and less stands between the living and the dead as one ages, and by one's 90s, there's usually little holding us to this world. Still, in 2020 there were 631,000 Americans 95 and older. However, 95 to 100 is pretty dangerous: there are only 89,739 Americans over 100.
I see. Yeah, it makes sense. Once you hit that age, every hour is a super gift.
I'll wait until I have more info.
But even with all that, it's a tremendous loss to the world, at least for me.
We will see.
May he live another 94 years!
We are speculating, he may be fine and simply is following doctors orders. With a guy as important as him, timing is never going to be ideal...
Btw, Bev Stohl has a Reddit account, she said, and I quote exactly: "He is still with us..."
https://www.reddit.com/user/bevboisseaustohl/
I could not phrase it better myself. Nothing but gratitude, infinite infinite gratitude.
Thanks BC, for those words, they're very moving.
[sup]— Thomas Lewton · Quanta Magazine · Jul 10, 2023[/sup]
A Bet Against Quantum Gravity
[sup]— Quanta Magazine · Jul 10, 2023 · 6m:43s[/sup]
:pray:
Quoting BC
Quoting Manuel
Quoting Mikie
Quoting Mikie
Quoting Manuel
Quoting BC
Quoting Manuel
Quoting BC
Quoting Manuel
[joke]Noamie, he hates it when I call him that, asked me to respond. He says fuck you all, he's still alive, so please wait for the eulogies. I quote "every hour is a super gift my ass."[/joke]
It would be amazing to get them all together in the same stadium.
I think the rose bowl stadium in California could hold them all.
What activities/entertainments/experiences would TPF members suggest for a stadium full of centenarians? Mexican wavelets? Slow ones of course.
How about a 'sing off?' 1920's style Vs 2020's style?
60+ geese making their own parade march through Winnipeg (The Weather Network · Jul 12, 2023 · 22s)
Music from their youths? Let's say, hits from 1933: The last round Up ("I'm heading for the last roundup")... nice song, but it's about impending death. Stormy Weather... what with global heating, this song will always be in season. 1943? Kate Smith singing God Bless America. I find her, her singing and that song particularly nauseating, but centenarians will probably groove on it.
Or they could watch a salad of Gone With The Wind, The Wizard of Oz, and the Great Dictator chopped up and spliced together. Some of them would notice, some wouldn't. During the burning of Atlanta, the sound track can be overdubbed with Welcome to Munchkin Land. The Tin Man can throw Scarlett down the stairs and say "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn." Charlie Chaplin can shoot the Lion and throw the scarecrow into the fire. Lassie and Mammy can run off together. Lassie? Oh, why the hell not? He's better known than Rin Tin Tin.
A cooked goose is delicious, but they aren't very meaty (they are all fatish dark meat ) and they are a royal pain to get ready for the kitchen--all those pinfeathers that have to be pulled out, one by one, for instance. I've killed lots of chickens; I don't know what chopping the head off a goose would be like. They are physically more threatening and feistier than your most warlike chicken. Turn your back on a gander and it will attack you wherever their big beaks can get ahold of you.
So, if the person has woken up every morning that predictably for 94 years, the empirical evidence is that he will carry on for the 95th year and so on.
They do move like a horse, but actually has the gait of a zebra. Back is lower than the front.
Here is a Mexican wave in a stadium:
I think a stadium of centenarians would enjoy doing that, but I am not sure they could all stand up so fast or fully, so I went for the term 'wavelet' (due to the inevitable observed fluctuations in amplitude,) and the idea of a wave approaching an observer more slowly, than the one in the above clip.
Quoting BC
I was thinking more of a 'sing off' between songs like the 1923 classic:
(the good thing about this one is that there is a long musical intro, which will give the 100's sufficient time to limber up and figure out what's happening)
And how much we have improved in 100 years :lol:
We could provide rotten tomatoes for the 100's to throw at Ryan Gosling for agreeing to appear in such a crap movie and sing such a crap song but I am concerned that the 100's could only hit a nearby fellow 100(+), and that could start a mass punch up, between the 100's.
Although this line dancing to hip hop 102 year old, might just be able to hit Ryan right in the jewel box, if she was in the front row of the stadium.
Quoting BC
Yeah, this is exactly what I was interested in. The crazy musings of TPF members, faced with the task of entertaining a stadium packed with nearly 90,000 American centenarians.
Many on TPF are supposed to be philosophy specialists, how would such knowledge assist in such a task?
WTF??? Lassie was a male??? Then why the f*** did they call it Lassie?
In Scotland, a lassie is very definitely female. Was Lassie a trans dog?
Is this another story about what I think I know that I know, when in fact I don't know that I know, what I was so sure, I knew?
Next you will be telling me Lassie was also a practicing Christian and a Collie supremist! :scream:
Who is the fairest Lassie of them all?
One of the iterations of the breastaurant (a term to describe Hooters and the other knock-offs where scantily dressed waitresses serve beer and wings to middle aged men) was a place called The Tilted Kilt. They would dress in short kilts and wear these half shirts tied off at the mid-section. I think the chain went out of business. There was one near me, but I never went in there because I had this fear I'd see the neighbor kids working there.
EDIT: I stand corrected. It's alive and well: https://tiltedkilt.com/
There was an even riskier one opened in Glasgow town centre during the 80's.
It was called 'wenches,' and the bar maids wore various lingerie concoctions, including such items as basques, fishnets, stockings and suspenders etc, all the usual lingerie, that inflames most, if not all hetero young males. I think the owners (two gangster looking men,) were hoping this would be the start of a large chain of pubs called 'wenches,' opening all over Scotland.
I was there on the second weekend of its opening. It was mainly lots of male customers, just constantly adjusting their eye, head and body position, to follow the motions of every barmaid in the pub.
There was very little conversation, making any useful progress.
The barmaids themselves just looked scared to me.
They had 4 bouncers on the door as you came in.
It only lasted a few months, as after an initial period of calm absorption of the surroundings, the place became packed with guys, who got more and more brave and became more and more forward.
I was only in it twice but it was well reported that the police were getting called out to it, almost ever hour to arrest people and take away the damaged and broken bodies. It was closed by police order, after the place was almost wrecked during a particular Saturday night session.
Such a 'street pub' could not exist today in Glasgow. There are still a few 'strip clubs,' but you need to pay to even get in and the security is far more serious than 4 knuckle dragging bouncers on the front door.
I have never been in a strip club. I remember just feeling awkward in wenches, not because I didn't lust after the barmaids, it was more that I could see so clearly, in their faces, that they hated the men leering at them, including me.
Quoting Livescience
I had always understood that humans first came to the western hemisphere about 12,000 years ago. Recent archeological findings had pushed that back to around 15,000 years. This study moves it back much further, to 25,000 years, which is surprising.
This was the only part of your post that actually sounded sexist to me. It suggests that the women were coerced into using their sexuality by disgusting, leering men. I'm sure that's the case with a few, but probably a good number liked the party atmosphere and the money, although I do agree that few found the men as attractive as the men found the women, but that's usually the case.
I just don't accept the whole women as victims in need of protection and sympathy. It's so old school patriarchy.
Well, projecting from 'women dressed in lingerie in a bar, as their 'choice of workplace,' towards full sex workers. I have certainly heard such female sex workers, in various documentaries, state how much they enjoy their work, and see it as a well paid job, that they are happy to do and feel that it is genuinely, a good career choice. Although in some such documentaries, it often goes on to describe the personal problems such individuals also report, when it comes to ability to maintain a long term relationship with a partner whom they 'love.' It's complicated stuff. I also think that sex workers who would recommend such a career, are very few.
Quoting Hanover
I think many people choose to do a job they would otherwise never choose to do, if they had an alternative way to make the money they need. It's that 'no other way I can meet my needs and the needs of my dependents,' that I find so unacceptable.
Are you determined to ensure, or at least are willing to help to ensure, that all people, including all women, don't ever have to be viewed as, or demonstrate any need for, protection and sympathy, because we all live under a global system that fully provides such, from cradle to grave, under the banner of basic human rights?
Even if I accept this statement in it's claim that there are only a few in the category we are placing them in here. Do you feel any responsibility towards such folks, who find themselves in such situations?
What are you asking that I be responsible for?
According to ostensibly informed reports, the original print "Lassie" was a female dog, but the film and television "Lassie" was always a male. According to allegedly informed sources, the reason for NOT using a female dog was that female lassies's fur deteriorates when they are in 'heat'. Male dogs don't have that problem.
Nothing, I was asking you:
Quoting universeness
Phew! Thank f*** for that! The universe makes sense again, well apart from ...............
Quoting BC
Yeah, I am familiar with such switcheroo's
This female dancer was actually a guy dressed up! :scream:
How did they ensure the dug in the films and TV never showed it's bollocks?
That must have been a fun job for the editors, 'we must check all footage to see if the dug shows any bollocks!!!' Or did they just not care enough?
I, gay male, have been in straight strip clubs in Minneapolis. (I was there on business.) The atmosphere was subdued. The show was better in the more upscale places. One of the places was old (at least 40 years in business), and the strippers were older too -- too old, I thought. But then, so were a lot of the customers.
Strip joints are bars, and low quality drinks are the key to monetizing unclothed women. The women hustled drink sales in between "performances". Tips are given, but that isn't the main income stream. In the late '80s, a lot of places had no cover charge, and security was minimal. Male strip shows (gay bars) were much livelier, partly because they often got off the stage and mingled as part of the show.
I've no desire to set foot into a breasturant. Mixing a lot of sexuality and food just seems unsanitary.
You paint a rather unfulfilling picture of such aspects of humanity, and make me think I may have found the gay strip club you describe, more palatable than the straight ones you describe, but only for the me now, and not the 'anti anyone not hetero,' younger man I was.
Even though it would now probably take me all night to do what I used to do all night.
I still find an image such as:
Overwhelmingly and breathtakingly attractive. I suppose it's a natural imperative, but it's also why nefarious people, can make so much money from the skin game.
The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
I was asking you what responsibility you were asking that I take. Are you asking that I take responsibility for the fact that they are there, that I take responsibility to find them a better job, that I take responsibility that they are not mistreated at work, that I take responsibility to treat them with respect, that I take responsibility not to encourage the behavior by patronizing such places, or what?
I think my answer is that whatever responsibility I do take would be unaffected by the fact that I'm male, but I'm not sure what you're asking I take responsibility for.
Do you think Ron DeSantis would prohibit showing reruns of "Lassie" in Florida?
Breasts are a conduit for food for some.
Again, I was not asking you to take any responsibility for anything.
Do you feel that if you felt/experienced the need, to take some personal action, to assist someone in the circumstance described, in one or more of the ways you listed in your last post, then that could be a very positive action to take. I agree that such has much more to do with your notions of your own personal humanism than your chosen gender.
A Lassie with or without bollocks?
I don't know what you're getting at really. I don't see them as being in a position where they need saving. They're just making money, and if they're fine with it, so am I. If they secretly hate it and feel humiliated, they need to find a new job I guess.
So much fur. Plus, Lassie insisted on NO BUTT SHOTS. Not because he was embarrassed about his balls or butt hole (he was, of course, inordinately proud of both). For dogs. all the money is in face shots.
The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands. Aren't there reforestation jobs for them to do? Can't they spend their time straining plastic out of the ocean with small sieves? Why aren't they making sure squirrels cross the road without getting run over? Why aren't they out capturing CO2?
He would because Lassie personifies American Family Values better than anyone else. Lassie was never caught lying, cheating, or stealing. He always supported family togetherness and unmitigated wholesomeness. He was an expert problem solver, lost child finder, a great communicator, and always chaste on-screen. (Off screen he was a profligate serial rapist who was always spoiling purebred bitches' pregnancies resulting in dachshund / lassie crosses and worse.). So yes, DeSantis will probably start appearing with a lassie stud by his side all the way to the White House.
Lassie was gay.
I remember one 5th of July...
My brother and I had heard from a neighbor kid, that the streamer thingies that fall out of fireworks don't all get ignited, and after the town fireworks show the ones that don't ignite land in the field across the street from us. He showed my brother and I, how when you light one of the little chunks, it burns real bright. It was pretty cool.
So that July 5th, we were ready...
We got up early in the morning to harvest the bounty of streamer thingies. We found the full unexploded dud cannister, of one of the town's fireworks. Such amazing luck! We took it back to our parent's garage.
In the garage we put the canister on the top of a wooden crate that contained my brother's and my rubber rafts, that we would take when we went to the lake where my grandparent's lived. We got a carpet knife out of the toolbox, to cut open the cannister and learn what treasures we had found. About this time, my four year old sister wandered outside to see what her older brothers were doing. We cut into the canister and were overjoyed to find that the top of it was packed full of streamer thingies with little chunks of black material, which being the sciency kid that I was, I figured to be black powder for throwing the streamer thingies far across the sky. I figured that black powder could be pretty fun to play with as well.
However, that would have to wait. We could see that the streamer thingies were in a subcompartment of the cannister, and there was further bounty awaiting our wondering eyes. We cut down the side of the big cylinder, so that we could remove the compartment full of streamer thingies. We found that the rest of the main cylinder was filled with a silvery powder. I was a sciency kid, and I had a chemistry set and I knew how cool it was to set a strip of magnesium on fire. I figured that silvery powder filling the remainder of the cannister had a lot of magnesium in it, and was in there to make one of those blindingly white flashes accompanied with a loud boom that can be heard miles away.
I told my little brother that I had a plan.
I hope so!
Here's Lassie at work.
And then what happened?
Since you wrote this post, you were apparently not blown up. Or you were, and somebody else wrote this post. Had I been there, I would have greatly enjoyed the "research" into what could be done with this stuff.
Indeed.
I told my little brother that I thought we should try building our own little firework using the silvery powder, and that we would need a lit candle.
While he went to get a candle and matches, I rolled some of the paper from the outer cannister into a firecracker sized tube, and filled the tube with as much of the silvery powder as I could. About the time I was done doing that, my brother showed up with the lit candle. I told him that we were going to drip wax into the ends of the tube of silvery powder to seal it up. I had him hold the candle over the cannister of streamer thingies so that it was close to the cannister of silvery powder, over which I was holding our first attempt at an IED. Paul dropped the candle! It's his fault!
Black powder started popping and streamers thingies started streaming, in a fountain shooting out of the top of the streamer cannister. We elected to run away, and my brother, sister, and I ran deeper into the garage. About the time we reached the furthest corner of the garage, a streamer must have landed in the silvery powder, because BOOM!!!
I'm resorting to hearsay now, but as I recall hearing... My mom's heart came clear out of her body and she ran to find out what had happened. When she opened the door to the breezeway connecting the farmhouse to the garage, a monstrous hanging chad of ceiling was hanging down, and thick smoke was billowing into the breezeway. She rushed through the breezeway to go outside and see if any of her kids were still alive. But she was stopped by the solid wall of smoke billowing out of the garage door. While she was steeling herself to walk into the blinding smoke to see if any of us could be saved, my siblings and I came walking out of the smoke.
The garage itself was cinderblock and it was fine, although I suspect it had little particles of melted rubber raft speckled around the interior walls until it was torn down. The windows of the garage were all blown out, with some of the glass landing 15 feet away from the garage. The opened garage door was 3/4ths blown off its tracks and dangling precariously from the ceiling. And my sister had a half inch diameter hole burnt through her pajamas, but hadn't been burned herself.
We were all pretty deaf for the rest of the day, but we didn't get in trouble at all!
Yeah, so let's think about those (which unlike yourself, I personally think, is actually the vast majority of those who take such jobs in such bars) who do hate such jobs, but are forced to do them as they need the money and have very few or no alternatives, open to them. Do they need better protections?
Do you think individuals should be economically forced into any job, especially ones that involve a sexual objectification that does negatively affect the status of women in society and how women are 'viewed' by society. I am not suggesting that scantily clad barmaids, female strippers, prostitutes etc are more damaging to the status of their societal gender than their male equivalents (eg from the Chippendales to rent boys), as I don't know that there are studies available, that demonstrate irrefutably, that such women, negatively impact the status of the societal gender they represent, much more, than their male equivalents do. But I do again, emphasise my point below and ask if you would rather support what I suggest below, or do you prefer the status quo?
Quoting universeness
Are these alternate jobs available to folks in the skin game? Can you earn an equivalent level/rate of pay doing such alternate jobs where you live?
In the area I live, all the 'help improve the environment' tasks I see advertised, ask for unpaid volunteers only! I don't think such would help those in the skin game, survive!
How much does 'making sure squirrels cross the road without getting run over,' or 'straining plastic out of the ocean with small sieves,' pay, where you live?
I went to one of the 'better' clubs like this in my city about 15 years ago. I was writing a feature article for a major city newspaper on the women and what why they worked there ( I used to have a side hustle as a feature writer). I was surprised by how nice and how smart many of the women were. They were artists of small talk, they listened attentively and were interested in the world; politics, literature, history. Some of them were at university. Others were backpackers. One or two were lost. An amazingly witty and intelligent girl from Israel held my attention for a good hour. Curiously, a couple of girls gave me phone numbers, which they had to do on the sly because the bouncers were on the lookout for hook ups. Against policy. I didn't follow up with any of them. I was 40, they were 21... My editor killed the story. He said I was too sympathetic.
A job becomes increasingly intolerable to the extent it violates that person's value system, particularly when one finds their employer disgusting in some way.
A traditional value is that sexuality, unlike say intellectual capacity, physical ability, or having some unique skill, is to be personally protected and not monetized. That is particularly true of female sexuality, which has a much higher monetary value in the market than male sexuality.
So, if you hold to that traditional view, you would be miserable monetizing your sexuality. The higher you hold that sexual value, the less you could tolerate in terms of selling any aspect of your sexuality.
My point is that many hold that sexual value in low regard, and I'm not one to project or proselytize my beliefs on others. The fact that i might be traumatized by selling me sexuality does not mean others will, and the fact that I've seen the light in terms of the best way one ought express their sexuality doesn't mean I'm doing good to spread that gospel.
All of this is to say, my job isn't to protect women from their sexual decisions, as they can decide what's best for themselves without my assumptions of what I think is best for them. If they hate their jobs, I would support their quitting, but some, all things considered, don't want to quit.
I think your last post comes across as seeming quite reasonable but I also think it's a clear example of just handwaving away the very real and very negative aspects of employment/exploitations involved in the selling sex industry.
In reality, the sex industry perceives it's customers as walking cash machines, and perceives the job of those in the sex industry, as primarily being, to nurture and develop the best ways to separate people from their money. As you suggest, some are happy to do this and many are forced to, due to economic desperation or due to criminal pressure.
My comment of:
Quoting universeness
Is my statement, that it is essential, that society protects all people against being forced into or having to stay in, the selling sex game, due to either economic or criminal pressure.
I think the difference between us is that I am willing to plant a flag of full support, for the global system I outlined above and you don't feel the need to support such a future global system, and all current efforts towards achieving such.
Having said that, Am I correct in saying that you do support the idea of a UBI for all people?
I can't remember if it was you or perhaps @TClark that supports UBI.
Economic pressures are what cause anyone to work, so you'll have to explain why you believe that work that revolves around sexuality is a special class warranting special protection.
If there were a person I'd be concerned about protecting from such an industry, it would be my daughter. The reason I don't wish to impose the same standards upon the rest of the world as I would my own daughter isn't because I lack the ability to greater empathy beyond my own family, but it's because I realize I'm not a parent, specifically a father, to the rest of the world. If I did take the approach that I was and that my duty to be a father extended to the greater community, then I would arguing for paternalism, which I don't.
This is hyperbole, so don't freak out, but it's made to make my point. You are presenting these women as damsels in distress in need of a white knight to save them from the pain imposed upon them by the evil dark princes surrounding them.
My point is that even if it is true these women probably are making some less than perfect decisions and that there probably is a healthier path for them, the bottom line is that they're adults, fully able to decide for themselves, and fully able to live with the consequences of their actions. They will be just fine without me meddling into their personal decisions as if I know better.
Quoting universeness
I am so far right of the UBI position I'm confused how you could be confusing me with that position.
I try to keep that in mind.
Only under capitalism and the money trick rules. It's just that you have experienced a lifetime of that horrible system, so you type statements like the one above. I did a job for 30+ years that I considered vocational. A job I loved doing regardless of the money, but you are correct, that under capitalism, people are economically forced to do all sorts of jobs that they hate or that mean nothing to them, which creates resentments such as:
[b][i]If you work and do your best, you will get fired, like all the rest.
But if you mess and fuck about, you will live to see the job right out.
The work is hard, the pay is small, so do your best to screw them all.
Or on your tombstone neatly lacquered.
Worked and died cause I was fucking knackered![/i][/b]
No-one should be compelled to work in any job, due to economic pressure. I do however think that this should apply even more for some current jobs, such as sex work, politics, law, military, police, medicine, teaching etc where the mental strains can be much more intense, compared to working in a flower shop.
Quoting Hanover
I can only say that I am glad I do not share that view. I think your humanism is limited, perhaps even poor, but that's just my opinion.
'Quoting Hanover
No I don't think it is hyperbole, I think you are stating your point of view clearly.
It is merely your choice to try to wrap my point of view regarding sex workers, in some kind of chivalric narrative. I reject your attempt as mere sophistry, and quite poor, transparent sophistry at that.
The exchange between us is not important enough for me to freak out, but I will respond to you with my honest point of view, trying my best, to match the level of diplomacy, that you offer me.
Quoting Hanover
The point you continuously wave away is that many of the women you are describing here,have no such choice! Any other choice often means destitution for them and any dependents they may have.
Quoting Hanover
Thanks for the correction. I can categorise you more accurately now.
The advice to go do something useful was addressed to the CRITICS of the skin game, not the practitioners of the skin game. Or, do you count the critics as part of the skin game?
The ocean is far away. Can't do much about it here.
Oh, I was very aware of the angle you were coming from but I wanted you to consider whether or not you thought these comedy jobs you were musing over, were available to 'the practitioners of the skin game?'
Don't get me wrong, I think re-foresting and jobs to help clean up the environment, should be more numerous and better, way better, paid, but such don't offer an improved standard of living, compared to those in the sex trade or for those who criticise the current levels of protections available to those in the sex trade.
Do you think it would be a better world, if the only people engaged in the sex trade, were those who viewed such, as one of their vocations in life?
Hey, work sucks; that's why they have to pay people to do it. Most jobs performed by workers are exploitative, unpleasant, tedious, uncomfortable, etc. Is it any worse to have one's hands and feet, or head, exploited rather than one's sexual aspects? C'mon, lefty; this is basic.
:lol: I see that you are a form of socialist I am unfamiliar with. You have declared yourself socialist, here on TPF, yes? Or have I got your past statements as wrong as suggesting hanover supported UBI?
So yes Mr socialist, this is basic, if you are going to use the label socialist for yourself, then you have to actually think like one.
Then I guess your ethics conflicts with ontological reality. I think people shouldn't have to breathe to survive. What am I to do?
In any event, the least productive workers are those who work just for the paycheck. I'm all in favor of finding a job that you can find challenging to some extent.
Quoting universeness
You're not supporting humanism. You're supporting paternalism. My view is that the human response is to afford people autonomy and not constantly run over to them with cures for the ills they deny having. Part of life if making one's own decisions and own mistakes. That a woman wishes to put on her shortest shorts and sell beer to drunk men isn't evidence of victimization and abuse. It's just her doing whatever she decided to do, and me trying to save her against her will from that doesn't indicate I'm some wonderful person. I'd just be a controlling middle aged man who can't handle the fact that some people have views on sexuality that vary from my little world.
Quoting universeness
If by sex workers you mean people forced into prostitution and beaten by their pimps, then I'm in favor of prosecuting them however the law allows. If you mean by sex workers a college student who puts on a too short kilt and waits tables for middle aged men while giggling at their stupid jokes so that she can make big tips, then, no, it's not my place to intervene, and I'm not a special hero if I do. I'm actually kind of a judgmental dick if I do.
Quoting universeness
If we're now talking about the class of women who engage in the sex trade to avoid becoming destitute, as if these women have no other options else face homelessness and hunger, you're now talking about a class of women with other psychological issues, including significant problems with drug and alcohol addiction. The problem isn't capitalism or lack of opportunity in those instances, but it's psychological disability and my guess is some form of real, actual physical coercion, like sex trafficking, pimping, or some form of domestic abuse.
No, my humanism and sense of fair play clashes with nefarious, unfettered capitalism.
Quoting Hanover
No, I support humanism and humanists do not try to cure ills that people report they don't have as humanists are currently overwhelmed trying to help stop some of the ills people do have.
Quoting Hanover
You just keep repeating your fake assertion that I am trying to stop some barmaid working somewhere relatively tame like a hooters bar. You are also still stuck in your chivalric mindset about 'saving' women.
Perhaps you need to dismount from your own perceived white knight horse imagery that you keep trying to insist I am selling. Again, for the umpteenth time, I am referring to folks who are economically forced to choose the sex trade. That is unacceptable, yes? Stop trying to dance around that question.
Quoting Hanover
You are progressing a little here but very slowly. So, if the college student (not your daughter, but someone's daughter,) can only find a 'Wenches' style job as the only one available to her, that will allow her to maintain herself, any dependants she has, and stay in her college course, then I find that reality unacceptable and she should not be faced with that situation as her only choice. Take the job or lose your college course and your future. Do you agree that is an unacceptable choice for anyone to be left with?
Quoting Hanover
:lol: What!!!! Every women/man who engages in the sex trade rather than become destitute, has psychological issues and problems with drug and alcohol addiction!!!!! Are you serious?
Quoting Hanover
Yeah, so, for example, a young person, lets say 21, who just does not get on with their parents, runs away to London. Has no psychological problems, has never drank alcohol to excess, and has no drug problems. Runs out of money in London. Phone's home and gets some help from family but is refused re-entry into the family home. "You're 21 now girl, time to make your own way in the world, you know you and your dad can't live in the same house!"
She has no money left, can't borrow any more, gets no significant help from the London authorities.
One night, a guy in a pub offers her good, steady money and a room to stay in, working at a strip club in soho. Does this story ring true to you? It's the base story of hundreds of thousands of young people all over the world. In poorer countries it's the base story of many millions of young people.
With all due respect, how out of touch are you?
Quoting BC
What part of this seems incompatible with your version of socialism, whatever that may be?
a) work sucks...?
b) most jobs are exploitative...?
c) is it any worse...?
I wish picketers would stop chanting “hey hey, ho ho, ____ has got to go.” Makes me cringe. And I’m in favor of strikes and boycotts and protests. But Jesus, get something new.
Work does not suck if you love your job or you are doing your share of a necessary job, that your community needs done, due to a current technical inability to automate it. Socialism supports people having the ability, human right, and opportunity to work, in a job of their choice, from those available.
I was not exploited as a teacher, but I was underpaid and inadequately resourced to do the job I was expected to do. No exploitation was involved as I worked in a non-profit service based employment.
Socialism will always combat exploitation in the workplace. Such exploitation is rife in the sex trade.
Anyone who claims to be a socialist, should not respond to:
"The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides.
— universeness"
with:
Quoting BC
As you would be accused of suggesting that the sex trade is not problematic and treats all of its workers fairly. The sex trade is a sex issue in humanity and it's socialist or otherwise, critics certainly are not the ones with the problem and your quip, that they have too much time on their hands is rather banal, imo.
Quoting BC
Which tenet of socialism proposes that socialists should accept the exploitation of male or female sexuality, because its no worse than the exploitation of the head, hands or feet of any worker doing any job? :roll:
So... The thing is, a good chant needs to rhyme and it needs rhythm.
Not another nickel, not another dime, wallstreet bailouts are a crime! - Good
Ho, Ho, Ho Chi Minh; the NLF is gonna win! - Good
Up Wth The People – Yeah, Yeah Down With the Bankers - Boom, Boom - Mediocre
U S out of Vietnam, Japan, and Okinawa - Fair, too short
Stop the escalation; end the occupation; bring the troops home - Fair, but it's missing a syllable
What do we want? Troops OUT (Peace / Justice / Stop the war) When do we want it? Now! - Tiresome
The people united, will never be defeated - Fair; over-used in the past
Two, four, six, eight; stop the murder, stop the rape - (Take Back the Night march)
I have oft been disgusted by leftists and union members who are apparently incapable of singing "Solidarity Forever", never mind the International. That's one of the problems of the decline in church attendance -- people never get to practice singing.
and of course we have the well loved classic
Maggie Maggie Maggie, OUT! OUT! OUT!
I have had jobs that didn't suck because I was making an important contribution to the health of my community, or (different job) was helping college students learn how to learn (study). However, out of the 40 years at work, the non-sucky jobs were about 30% of the total.
Quoting universeness
All of my employment was either in non-profit or state organizations (like the University of MN). At least in the US, the modus operandi of non-profit and for-profit employers is pretty much indistinguishable. "Exploitation" isn't some exotic experience; it the ground of employment. Get the best you can for the least cost, and increase pay and benefits no more than necessary.
Quoting universeness
Serious socialists and levity-lacking leftists sometimes have difficulty with humor. I was being flippant. However, now that you have brought it up again...
a) I have misgivings about the whole concept of "sex work" and "sex workers". These sound like euphemisms for older terms like whores, whoring, prostitution, hookers, street walkers, out-call, etc. Granted, there are some prostitutes who claim that their activities ARE freely chosen, financially rewarding, and personally quite tolerable. I don't think most prostitutes did freely choose to sell sexual service and many of them don't make a lot of money, and don't find it 'quite tolerable'.
b) On the other hand, ordinary people's sexual activities, attitudes, obsessions, etc. are getting too much critical attention. I would prefer that people's sex lives be considered irrelevant to their ability to balance a budget, for instance, or write legislation, or write a ticket for speeding. If someone has an affair, it's their spouse's problem, not the voting public. If someone sends someone a picture of their dick, they have demonstrated questionable taste, but they shouldn't lose a job for that.
A close look at many gay men's sex lives would be kind of shocking to your basic vanilla straight type.
Quoting universeness
c) and you would be jumping to conclusions. OF COURSE the sex trade fails as an equal opportunity employer; OF COURSE the sex trade fails to make it onto the list of "best places to work".
Quoting universeness
d) We are talking about the system in which we live, not a fully realized socialist society. I maintain that most workers are exploited, whether they are work at Tesco, on a North Sea oil platform, or at the Royal Bank of Scotland. Sexuality is grist for the marketing mill. Practically no one can avoid that kind of manipulation.
Look, Universeness, we're on the same side. Socialists CAN disagree.
True story.
That's right. It would be an odd thing to invent.
In the UK, or Scotland in particular, (as that is my main experience,) I would guestimate that 30% is valid as a measure of the amount of non-profit driven services available to the people. The NHS, most of education, the welfare state, policing, local government maintenance services, social care etc. I think most people working in these sectors feel very fulfilled by the jobs they do, in comparison with those who work in jobs with the base function of creating more wealth for the owner and/or shareholders of a private company/consortium/conglomerate/familial dynasty/individual celebrity.
Quoting BC
What!!! how can you justify such a statement? Give me an example of the daily workings of a non-profit and a for profit group, that demonstrates that their MO is indistinguishable! Such cannot be true, even in the US. The former is people centered and the latter is profit centered, so what do you mean?
Quoting BC
I greatly value humour and employ it as much as I can. I like flippancy, but!!! a socialist, making flippant comments that could have came from a tory, might well get attacked by their own side, and quite right too. A socialist cosplaying a capitalist attitude, in any positive way is not good and your response to
"The whole 'sex' issue within humanity, still needs a lot more work and education on all sides."
with
"The whole sex issue in humanity is doing just fine -- it's the critics that have the problem, which is too much time on their hands"
was not good humour imo, but you have now stated that you were just being flippant and I accept that with relief, as it could have turned out, that you were being damn serious, whilst walking around insisting to others that you represent the socialist view.
Socialists are forever trying to explain why vile human beings such as Lenin, Stalin, Hitler etc were never ever ever socialist in any non-contradictory way whatsoever and that is a very serious, no place for humour, situation. Socialism is almost a vile expletive in America, because of the lies told about its main tenets.
Quoting BC
I broadly agree and I mostly share your viewpoint here as opposed to the viewpoint held by folks such as @Hanover but, if we are going to accept that a sex worker can be a legitimate worker, then they deserve the full protections socialism/humanism implies.
Quoting BC
Again, I broadly agree. One of my great Scottish hopes was a politician called Tommy Sheridan.
He was doing so well in Scottish politics at one point and he and his political supporters in his party 'Solidarity' were giving local people fantastic support (including my own grandfather). His party imploded and he was brought down, partly, by the claim that he visited a sex club in England.
I could not care less about Tommy's sex tastes and I think he was a great loss to the socialist movement in Scotland and that whole story was one of the main reasons for me to now advocate for non-party based politics.
Quoting BC
So, that's the situation socialists/humanists and anyone else interested, have to solve.
Quoting BC
Did you notice that every one of the companies you list above are profit driven!
We certainly can tackle such manipulation, with the long term socialist tenet of:
'To secure for the workers by hand or by brain, the full fruits of their industry and control over the means
of production, distribution and exchange.'
Quoting BC
I am reassured by that statement brother BUT, I despair at the old truth about socialists.
[b]Get any 10 socialists in a room and they will all agree on the basic tenets of socialism but they will almost war with each other over how best to achieve their goals.
Get 10 capitalists in a room and you will see real harmony in action. Their only discussion is how they can further tweak their already very successful, and well established methods, of maintaining their personal wealth, influence and power and their ability to feed from the sweat and effort of the masses.[/b]
Socialists/ humanists and anyone else interested, simply have to do better in finding methodologies we can all agree on, to defeat the nefarious rich and powerful global elites.
I still fully believe socialism/humanism is inevitable as the global system employed by an eventual world government, but I do think it will still take a few further generations, to achieve it.
What do you think of it?'
I Joined a few days ago. I had to become Universeness1 as someone else had stolen my Universeness :groan:
The bastard! If I ever encounter the guy who stole "wonderer"...
it might have been this bam!
Actually, I now feel I am missing out as you have such a cool song to back up your handle.
I think I will ask chat GPT to make me a song about 'universeness.'
I wont ask TPF members because I don't think the words they would choose to use, would enhance my self esteem! :lol:
Edit: I just noticed the different spelling wOnderer as opposed to wAnderer, sorry! :yikes:
Unfortunately, nowadays the opening lyrics make me picture Trump.
Hah! even when trump was the same age as Dion, he still had a face like an ugly wart.
He just had money and influence and sadly, the following is sometimes true, for some humans:
In a war of attrition, the odds heavily favour the masses....
This is the new fashionable ending for posts. Replaces - parking lot ®; nuff said; buzz off fuzz nuts; etc.
Ooh! An even more fashionable ending for posts. I like it.
True story.
MUCH better than @Noble Dust's brekky. MUCH.
If you need to stress it, you know you're grasping at straws. Also "brekky" is not a recognized term for breakfast.
Yes, real power lies with the global masses and not the nefarious elites. BUT, it has historically been proven that it is very, very difficult to organise and focus a mass of people, so that they overthrow a nefarious elite and prevent it's replacement with something almost as bad, as happened in such as the French and Russian revolutions. I think we have learned a great deal from the legacy of those who have tried and failed before. The attempts will continue imo, just like in the case of the wonderful young women in Iran today, still furious at the horrible theocracy they just cannot tolerate.
Fine. Two can play that game. I've just eliminated the word "grasping" from the English language. Now it's your sentence that makes no sense.
Keep it up and I'll effectively mute you.
I read Georgia is running out of peaches due to climate change. Maybe they can switch to bananas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GCrzjVdmSg
:grin:
And maybe Minnesota will become the peach state.
I tried growing a peachtree, but the deer kept eating the leaves before it could grow.
We're overrun with deer. It's due to climate change in that suburban non-huntimg humans have encroached and deer live well among humans, but for the occasional car.
Quoting Spontaneous supra-modal encoding of number in the infant brain
C-
I got another one.
What do you call a deer with no eyes?
No eye deer.
A++
Plus, there are rabid bats in the attic and poisonous snakes in the basement,
I feel like getting rabies would be an adventure. It would certainly make a damn good story.
I'm going to need a more challenging current event to make a joke over. I mean come on God, really, you think you throw a rabid beaver at me just to make me make some obvious joke?
This made me think of another joke (not my own) - A priest, an minister, and a rabbit walked into a bar. The rabbit said "I think I'm a typo."
And the beaver said "get out of my fucking way or I'm going to bite you".
Then find one. It's not my fooking fault. Vishnu.
Cringe as an adjective! And just yesterday in the Guardian too.
... Oh, online dictionaries are aware. It's informal and British. Ok.
I'm down with the demotic. Get over it.
? Harry G. Frankfurt, On Bullshit
When a chicken pecks you, it's trying to eat you, but it can't, but it would if it could. If you cut a hole in some plexiglass for your chicken to enter in and out of, it will bump into the plexiglass over and and over, just inches from the hole, so you have to put some rocks or something around the hole so that it will see the hole and not bump into it for eternity. You'd think they'd learn.
My son's girlfriend got bitten by a cat and she had to start a round of rabies shots, but then they found the cat and determined it not rabid, so she didn't have to keep getting the shots. I filed a claim against the cat owner for her and the cat owner's insurance company paid for the medical bills. I'm one of the leading cat lawyers in all of America.
If you get bitten by a radioactive cat, you'll start wearing super tight bodysuits and you'll become evil, yet be devilishly sexy.
True story.
A sign you have rabies and are going to die pretty soon is that you get really thirsty, but when you encounter water, you start having spasms. It's called aquaphobia. You can look that up on youtube.
Another true story.
I think they have a brain the size of one of those little styrofoam balls that you get if you start crumbling up styrofoam.
Since @BC doesn't seem to be around, I thought I'd provide a more precise answer.
Quoting Some chicken website
There was an Einstein chicken with a brain the size of a butter bean.
Yes, I think I remember reading about that - E = mc^squawk.
Invisible gun to forehead. Boof!
Looks like we're going to be dealing with Fred a while.
Yay Fred!
:heart:
2023 NT1
40 Percent Of American Kids Think Hot Dogs And Bacon Are Plants
[sup]— James Felton · IFLScience · Nov 10, 2021[/sup]
Meet Chada, 24.
Drowsy Bear Starting Her Day Becomes A Mascot Of The Sluggish And Sleepy
[sup]— Stephen Messenger · The Dodo · May 12, 2023[/sup]
This is a good example of social science 'research' which might not pass close scrutiny.
Where was this 'research' done? How was it done? How well do "children in general" differentiate animal and plant foods? What was the objective?
The researchers had a concern about the ethics of eating animals. ""Most children in the United States [...] eat animal products, but unlike adults who have built up an arsenal of strategies to justify the consumption of animals, children appear to be naïve meat eaters," the team wrote in their discussion."
I don't have "an arsenal of strategies" to justify eating meat. I like meat. The raison d'être of a pig is to become a pork chop. A cow is destined to produce milk, and makes a fine roast, as well. As for a plant based diet, cows, pigs, chickens, and lambs all eat a plant based diet. Close enough.
Farm kids, what few there are left, have no confusion where chicken comes from, and my guess is they eat it without hesitation and not naively, as if the only reason they were carnivores was because they thought chicken was picked off a bush.
Since we're talking about farms and where our food comes from- I've shown this video before here on the forum.
"If I had my little way
I'd eat peaches every day
Sun-soakin' bulges in the shade"
Choose the best ending for this joke:
I just ate a graham cracker, had some really sweet red punch, and then I laid down on a towel and went to sleep.
I woke up in a terrible mood, refused to get in the car to leave, but eventually settled down after I got my special:
A. Blankie.
B. Song sung to me.
C. Ice cream treat.
D. Blow job.
On Wednesday I bought a bag of Lund's & Byerly's store brand potato chips -- my favorite -- which I hadn't had for... 10 years, at least.
They were terrific. Still the same perfect combo of potato, salt, oil, and crunch.
if I wait another 10 years to buy another bag I'll likely have been dead for some time.
C. A premium brand of ice cream sandwich--made available immediately without a request.
When one wakes up in a foul mood, the blankie is too warm or smells bad; the song might be gangsta rap or heavy metal screaming; the blow job requires too much focus.
Häagen-Dazs is owned by General Mills; Ben & Jerry's is owned by Unilever.
Häagen-Dazs was invented by a Jewish guy in New York in the 1960s. He used a Danish name to make it sound exotic.
Ben and Jerry are Jewish too.
Baskin Robbins, you guessed it, Jewish too.
Moses, while in the desert for 40 years, got hot as shit, so he invented ice cream, and so that's why the continued Jewish dominance. . The milk was from the elusive red heifer.
He called it Moshe's Desert Dessert. His top selling flavors were matzoh, manna, and of course camel shit rocky road.
No, it was NOT. However illusive the red heifers might be, they are virgin cows, so they don't give milk. Cows don't produce milk until they have been properly fucked and birthed a calf to feed.
Otherwise, your story about how Jews came to dominant the ice cream industry is as plausible as any of your other stories. On the other hand, Yahweh was clearly in favor of the Israeli ice cream business, since the intended territory was the land of milk and honey, as opposed to the land of sand and oil.
The red heifers were Irish and were very fond of Bailey's Irish Cream, especially with coffee. They'd get randy after a few cups, lie on their backs, spread their split hoof, and try to entice a bull. The bulls would have nothing to do with them, calling them gingers and laughing at them.
This caused Yahweh to do things: (1) give them a red nose to light his way, and (2) to divine inject them so they'd provide a virgin birth. The latter allowed for ice cream production.
Some years later Mary would copy this process, first giving birth to a little lamb, and next to Jesus of Nazareth, but from Bethlehem. That part confuses me.
Love hurts.
60-80% of Ashkenazi Jews are lactose intolerant. Moses invented ice cream so he could fart on demand.
I like goldfish, but if you were expecting some kind of epiphany, you probably went to the wrong cracker. Goldfish, like Cheerios, are great for babies. I like Cheerios too.
Translation - The State of Florida has identified some slaves who were not beaten, tortured, raped, and worked to death.
[sup]— The Onion · Sep 3, 2021[/sup]
There's always the floor.
Yes, it's actually intended to be a block to stand on to reach the top shelf of the cupboard.
Persuasive Jumper Talks Entire Police Force Up Onto Ledge
[sup]— The Onion · Jul 19, 2023[/sup]
You paint a vivid and unpleasant picture. It's for that reason I've owned no electrical appliances at all for 20 years - no toaster, microwave, coffee makers, blenders, kettles, etc...
Perhaps I should inquire further. Do you have a kitchen?
Aside to self: How does this guy live? No toast? No smoothies? No quick warm up? No soup (no kettle)? Perhaps he lives in a monastery. Ot s cell block? Or perhaps he is a modern day Diogenes and lives in a cardboard box, and in broad daylight shines a flashlight on possibly honest men?
@Tom Storm: Are you Diogenes' ghost?
I do. I even have plates and cutlery.
:grin: So are you forever 'borrowing' other peoples electrical devices to post on TPF?
Get your own ya cheapskate! Stop stealing power and borrowing electrical equipment to type on TPF during the time you are supposed to be doing paid work! (only if that's what you are doing, of-course :halo: )
:halo: :sparkle:
I have a crock pot that looks like it was from the 1970s. I got it at a thrift store. I bought it after my divorce because my ex apparently wished to spend some time crocking now that she was free. It wasn't that I couldn't afford a brand new one, but it seemed like a practical solution and it allowed me to feel a certain amount of suffering in that I was now relegated to someone else's old crock pot that once cooked another family's stews and whatnot.
I now keep it as a sentimental momento, remembering the days I used it to slow cook sadness into that succulent chicken that would fall right off the bone. I do think it might catch on fire one day.
Great :grin:
¿Do you think it will be necessary to call another election to get a clear winner (one with enough seats to form a government) and who, one hopes, will not be a crypto fascist of some sort?
Anyone can be deep-faked in a scam ad. Even Ian Hanomansing
[sup]— Ian Hanomansing · CBC · Jul 23, 2023 · 4m:26s[/sup]
Scammers can create fake footage, the real thing can be called fake, communication becomes polluted + diluted.
In computing, authentication is an old topic, but may not translate easily in general.
Netflix Limits Users To One Eye Per Screen
[sup]— The Onion · Jul 10, 2023 · 36s[/sup]
I think it will not be necessary. It seems that Pedro Sanchez will repeat the same government, he even admitted that his team is negotiating with the political forces of Catalonia and Basque country. They believe that a new social democratic legislature is possible.
VOX decreased dramatically. They do not have chances of anything. 33 seats are pure trash.
This map is accurate.
Despite the fact that it is coloured blue, you can see that in Catalonia, Navarre and Basque Country the conservatives and VOX didn't get any important seats or representation. Madrid, Andalucía and Valencia provided good results but not really enough in arithmetic.
Note: It is not relevant to get seats in Galicia or Castille because only a few Spaniards live there and the proportion is small compared to Madrid and the nationalists/separatists.
WTF is going on! How can any city in a so called 1st world country allow this?
It's not acceptable in any city in any country.
This would bring a tear to a glass eye!!!
If you mean poverty, I'm against it, of course but haven't figured out how to eliminate (as no one else has). If you mean the recent explosion of homelessness everyone agrees in turning back the clock to the previous era when it was rare, but there is a robust debate on which variables to change to accomplish this universally accepted goal.
So your response to the video, was to contact 'everyone,' and gain the consensus that 'time travel' to a previous era was the best solution to the problems depicted in the video.
What evidence do you have for this 'robust debate' that's going on?
Is 'everyone' taking part?
Do you think a good quality home to live in, should be a human right, from cradle to grave?
No.
Hence the video and the problems it depicts.
1) housing is unaffordable. Vancouver, San Francisco, Los Angeles (well, California as a whole), New York City, and some others are very expensive, even for successful, fully functioning people.
2) drug addiction and alcohol are factors that are somewhat independent of the cost of housing. So, one can have homelessness and derelicts on the street, even if housing is affordable.
3) personal agency is a small factor; some people can not bring themselves to live in a homeless shelter which means submitting to a set of rules--or they have become persona non grata in the available shelters.
This is a very difficult problem to solve.
a) I don't know about BC, but California is an extraordinarily difficult state in which to solve homelessness or mere unaffordability for working class people. You've heard of NIMBY; one housing expert in CA said it's more like BANANA: Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anybody. It's very easy in CA to stop even middle-class housing projects that another group think infringes on their rights or environment.
b. The success rate in 'curing' alcohol and drug addiction is not all that high. Couple MI with CD + high living costs and what you have is a population of totally screwed people. Laws requiring "the least restrictive treatment" make it difficult for the state to force people into treatment.
c. Tolerance of public drug or alcohol inebriation and homelessness is a losing strategy. The state may not have the means to easily resolve the problem, but not solving it makes things worse.
What you are proposing is a post-revolutionary goal.
It doesn't make sense to ask about good housing as a right when the present welfare system operates on the principle of "not enough to live on, but a little too much to die".
Performed by author Michael Millius
We have small pockets like this in Melbourne, Australia. I am on a interagency, government work group to better understand and address rough sleeping in my city. It's not hard to understand that prohibition and interdiction of illicit dugs is a key cause of homelessness, along with factors such as unaffordable housing, mental ill health, trauma and intergenerational disadvantage. Some solutions - affordable housing, access to support and mental health services, decriminalizing of substances, enhanced treatment programs, meaningful jobs and activities. I think they can safely call this one a wicked problem.
I don't deny the complexities of the problems involved and the connections between homelessness/substance abuse etc. But to me, you are both focussing on how hard it is to find cures for situations such as depicted in the video I posted, rather than prevention.
Here are some actions I would take if I had the power:
I would not allow a town/city to be built around privately owned companies such as coal/oil/textiles etc (like textiles in Kensington, Philly) and then when those companies pull out of the area, taking all the profits with them, with no penalties at all, imposed on them, the lives of the people dependent on them, fall apart.
I would create a social welfare fund that makes social deprivation, the responsibility of those who generate profit. Any company that creates social problems due to them leaving an area becomes liable to pay to help fix the problems they created. All profits of all major companies must pay to prevent social deprivation. The more that exits that they caused, the more they must pay.
Today, in the UK, British Gas reported a profit of £1 billion (compared to £93 million for the same period last year) during a cost of fuel crisis. This profit caused a lot of misery and deprivation for many people in the UK. This situation must be prevented in the future, as situations, like what's happening in Vancouver Canada, is the direct result. I would impose a profit tax on British Gas, take 90% of those profits made during a fuel crisis and use that money to prevent any of their customers becoming destitute or losing their homes etc.
I would hold families like the Secklers in the USA, to account, far quicker than is happening at present.
There are many many other controls/responsibilities I would lay on those who live of the workers via the money trick, but basically, I think the focus is all wrong. The solutions lie with proper control over the excesses of capitalism, not with trying to cure the fallout from such. I am not suggesting that this will end all social deprivation and substance abuse issues, but it would remove 90% of it from our civilisation imo.
Oh, you've made me enter the Shoutbox. Not fair!
Lovely to receive a welcome back but I'm not around for long. Popping in and out seems to be my pattern these days. Good to see you too :flower:
I wish you will stay until the next week, when the literary activity starts, and I remember that you were a good commentator in the stories. :smile:
Of course. That's what I was answering, not the issue of prevention. That's because I work in an area which attempts to address the problems - some say it's like the ambulance parked at the bottom of the cliff. I agree with you that the cause of the problem is largely a by-product of how society is structured and how resources are allocated.
I remember the good times too. Unfortunately, this time around my brain ain't quite whot it used to be.
Also, I have 4 books to read before the start of the FutureLearn 'How to Read a Novel' course.
Starting on 7th August, it overlaps with the Literary Activity.
1. Bitter Orange Tree by Jokha Alharthi, translated from Arabic by Marilyn Booth
2. Demon Copperhead by Barbara Kingsolver
3. Bolla by Pajtim Statovci, translated from Finnish by David Hackston
4. After Sappho by Selby Wynn Schwartz.
Good luck to all with your entries :sparkle:
Edit - sorry, I forgot it's no longer a Competition, right?!
Anyway, I'll try and read and leave some kind of a mark of appreciation... :smile:
The problem is not only the divide and the widening gap between the rich and the poor, although undeniably that is a problem for our social well being as a society. The problem is also the overpopulation. Lots of investment firms invest in condominiums and other real estate; some private individuals too. That drove up the prices. But the prices doubled and tripled and quadrupled in the last ten years because more and more people need homes, because there are more and more people in the world. China doubled its population in the last 60 years. So did India. That alone is nearly an additional billion people in the world, who all want a place to live. Many Islamic countries are producing babies, due to the dictates of their religions. Practically the only places where there is no population growth by local births, are North America, Australia and Europe. Everywhere else it's a baby-factory in overproduction.
Those babies grow up, and want a place to live.
Exactly. There is not a competition, and the activity is there to improve our creativity skills. I think it is worthy to take part in the entries.
This year, haiku poems are allowed! :flower:
:up:
All fair comments but there are also issues such as, there are currently 288,539 empty houses in the UK, and these are all habitable properties, or at least are claimed to be. Many are owned by rich people who don't live in the UK but simply put some of there money in property, as they consider that to be more secure than putting all their money in the banks of the countries they do live in. Many don't want to earn rent from these properties, as they would have to declare such as earnings, and that does not suit their purpose.
Yes. It is a most worthwhile endeavour in itself and in relation to philosophy.
A close reading of such can raise the imagination, sense of empathy, and question all kinds of human nature. Characters can reveal the mind and its motives. The mutual engagement awesome.
Quoting javi2541997
Yes, they look easier than they are. They encapsulate a moment in time. A special awareness.
Saying less can be saying more. I look forward to being moved by the mood and imagery :sparkle:
Edit: a haiku can also be folded into a story... :wink:
A travel diary or dialogue...hmmm...a travelogue!
I haven't heard this term before. Does it mean childhood abuse or neglect?
Instead picking syntactical nits why don't you verbalize your take on the problem and your proposed solutions?
It's a straight-forward concept. Poverty, experienced over successive generations, produces (mal)adaptions which tends to perpetuate poverty: low-quality nutrition, counter-productive child-rearing practices, low aspirations, little planning beyond the immediate future, poor literacy, poor school performance, etc. In other words, the culturally poor get culturally poorer. It takes several generations to produce.
Drug use or alcoholism are not necessarily involved in the production or maintenance of the CoP. Homelessness might happen to the multigenerational poor, but it's not a given. They might not be living at all well, but they have adapted. They are likely to have shorter and less pleasant life spans than average, but reproduce soon enough to launch another generation.
Is multigenerational disadvantage an inevitable, inescapable dead end? No, but it's difficult to escape without outside help. Bootstrapping mostly doesn't work.
If you want to read more--much more--about this, check out A Framework for Understanding Poverty by Ruby K. Payne.
Best wishes for a successful effort.
I propose solutions but you obviously have problems spotting them. Keep trying!
Often, but it means that the person you are working with probably had parents and even grandparents who were also poor and dealing with trauma and disadvantage/mental illness/substance use, unemployment. No one can look back at a time when they had family members who held down jobs and lived a more stable, comfortable and dare I say 'conventional ' life.
Addendum - I should add that it is often easier to assist someone who has a personal history of some stability and comparative happiness. They can imagine being this way again and might work towards such a goal with some level of experience and anticipation. For someone with intergenerational experiences of poverty and disadvantage, it is often hard for them to imagine life ever being different or better.
Too much for The Shoutbox but it's essentially about ensuring services and government collaborate effectively, allocate resources and identify each person rough sleeping, with their history and then match accommodation and supports to their specific needs. Once housed, a person requires tailored, ongoing support to sustain their tenancy. We make sure that specific responses are initiated and followed up and maintained through working through a list of around 100 rough sleepers at a time. What we have learned is that people need to have robust input into their case plans and housing choices and that keeping someone housed after they get a property is often more challenging than finding accommodation. There are a range of learnings in that area too. It requires outreach work, a relationship based approach, shared information, wrap around services, peer support work and resourcing.
Let's see, there's the Roman Catholic Church and it's various dissenters; Italy, Spain, France, Germany, Austria, Britain and its empire properties (India, East Africa, South Africa, Ireland, North America, etc.), Rumania, the Balkan countries, Bulgaria, Turkey, Syria, Egypt...
I should think with penalties, damages, and 2000 years of interest, you should get enough to rebuild the whole city of Jerusalem in period design. I'm pretty sure nobody will mind. I mean, one more temple in Jerusalem. Big deal. Why would anybody object?
How have you been preparing the fatted calf for sacrifice? Are you assuring it of the great honor of being disemboweled on a big plank and then put on the fire, maybe not quite dead yet?
I was going to rent one of the $19.99 trucks to haul it all to the temple mount, but my credit card got rejected.
Guess it'll have to wait.
That probably means the Assyrians are about to attack. You should get out of Dodge.
Pfft
parking lot
Old Photos of Giants in 19th-Century England Spark Conspiracy Theories
[sup]— Daniel Bonfiglio · eBaum's World · Jul 27, 2023[/sup]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people
I mean thanks for looking out for me, but I think you've got some bad Intel. I'm thinking I might piss off another group of folks if I start hammering away at the Temple Mound
Duh.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim#:~:text=The%20Nephilim%20(%2F%CB%88n%C9%9B,but%20left%20untranslated%20in%20others.
I did not know that. This is it: I think they should plant some bushes around it or something. It's a little stark
I like their logo. Minimalist and very ironic.
Minimalist, yes. But... Why, how, or what is 'ironic' about it?
Rule 11 - Never explain jokes or irony.
I looked up the address to that place and know know where you were. Exactly where you were. Creepy, huh?
Uh oh. You know what comes next. Cover Fred's ears.
Looks like his mom had a rough delivery...
Don't forget, everything is goat.
Pythagoras debunked
Pythagoras didn't invent that theorem. The Egyptians did.
Assyrians!! Ahhhhhh!
I think what I'm saying is right.
It is my understanding that's a true story.
No it's not.
It's my understanding that's a true response.
1st US nuclear reactor built from scratch in decades enters commercial operation in Georgia
Georgia resident dies from rare brain-eating amoeba
Coincidence?
Also the Greenland ice sheet melted 416,000 years ago.
Wow!
Yes. It is a coincidence that @Hanover is from Georgia. :snicker:
The bad news is that Trump has been infected for years, has lost his brain/mind, and is popular among MAGA zombies.
So what you're suggesting is that Trump and DeSantis are both dead and their bodies are being driven by swamp worms?
:lol:
That happened to me once.
You ate a Georgia resident's brain?
Yep, it's all goat.
I did. Stirred it into to my scrambled eggs. I tasted their thoughts, which were purely bitter, still unhappy about having their brains made part of my omelet.
True story.
Quoting AP News
In, perhaps, related news:
Quoting Pew Research Center
I was certain that it was.
I believe we're all angels.
A Biden supporter who believes Trump won is a curious thinker.
I think a lot of people are ok dwelling in a fantasy zone. They're comfortable there. Why boost them out of it? If you do, you'll just have to shoot them with one of those elephant sedation guns. Just leave them alone. They're not hurting anybody.
The problem with this wording is that it's likely that many who don't believe Trump won still refuse to concede he lost. Trump is a good example of someone like that.
Should we explain to them about justified true belief?
Not conceding isn't the result of not knowing the truth, but it's the result of whatever else they think they can gain by pretending the truth is different.
The more unfortunate truth is that as absurb as Trump's behavior has been, he is positioned right now as either the most likely or second most likely person in all the country to be the next president of the US. He's got a sixth sense of what it takes to be a leader to a certain type of person.
TRUMP INDICTED IN PUSH
TO OVERTURN ELECTION
So, one annoying issue about the charges is that "indict" arrived in modern English through two routes and its pronunciation changed in the 1600s, so one finds it spelled inconsistently. In the 16th - 17th century, indict also meant "to write" or "to state" as in this Coronation Hymn by G. F. Handel.
My heart is inditing of a good matter:
I speak of the things which I have made unto the King.
...
That's one annoying issue about the charges, yes. :lol:
In the good old days (like, 16th / 17th century) they hanged bread thieves. If shoplifting a loaf of 100% Whole Grain deserved hanging, how much more does Donald's manifest sins and wickednesses deserve? Hanging will probably not be the punishment of choice
Fortunately, our country has some terrible prisons, usually run by southern states. The sentencing judge can shop around and find a really wretched, hot, vermin-infested, brutal cell block and send the former President there for a spell.
Did you know Trump wouldn't be the first American to run for president from prison? Check this out.
So imagine Trump is a socialist who's been convicted of sedition for telling people not to join the military, and he's running for president from prison. Wouldn't you vote for him?
Yes. I remember thinking back in the early 2000s, while listening to Bush's justifications for the Iraq war, that "truth" is just another word for what you can convince people of. Bush was bush league (sorry). Trump is the majors.
Their case is not equivalent. He was sent to prison at the end of June, 1918, 5 months before the war ended. He was charged with sedition based on a speech he made earlier in June. He hadn't been investigated for election fraud, slander, tampering with the election process, paying hush money, hiding state secrets, or coordinating a direct attack on the Congress. Trump is a one man crime wave.
The US organized a Red Scare, already underway before the end of the WWI, responding to the Bolshevik Revolution, anarchist radical politics, labor unrest, etc. the First Red Scare resulted in the seizure of over 4,000 accused radicals, thousands of deportations, and multiple raids organized by the US government.
I didn't realize that. I know communism and similar groups were popular back then, especially in the Southeast.
Right, all those commie redneck ku klux klanners ????
Seems that way to me too.
I know. It's weird, but true.
Cosmic Question Mark Spotted in Deep Space Suggests the Universe Is Stumped
(Wikipedia » Question mark » History)
I think you're showing your anglophone bias. That's really an inverted question mark, which shows that God is Spanish.
lmao
:clap:
This whole tipping thing is reaching its tipping point for me.
The only thing keeping me from completely going off is that I just look so crazy handsome now with each hair perfectly placed. But if not for that, things would be getting real like real fast.
So is your issue inflation, the concept of tipping or computerized auto tipping?
You could always just let those luscious locks grow. I think it’d suit you.
I used to go to Duke's barber and smoke shop in my home town. $1.00. Then my father discovered a place down the road that gave kids haircuts for $0.50, so we started going there. Two choices - buzz cut or butch, which was a buzz cut with a little bit of hair in the front you could make stand up with butch wax. I always got a buzz cut.
As for tipping. I figure I have a lot more money than anyone who gets tipped. Service is a crappy job. I don't feel resentful about tipping.
Butch haircut
Let that freak flag fly!
My opposition is not to tipping generally, but it's to the continual increase that has occurred in what is considered a standard tip. 15% was standard when I was a kid and then it crept to 18%, then to 20% and now generally 22%. The tip options indicated on the credit card machine steer you to higher and higher amounts, with my last example being 26% as the lowest option.
The tip is no longer optional either, not that I ever truly stiffed anyone, but it was supposed to at one point reflect the service you received so that top performers would make more than than those who did the minimum. Now it is fully expected, so why not just put it in the price as opposed to pretending that it acts as an incentive?
And by the way, I'm a very generous tipper. I'm just feel guilted into paying for something I shouldn't be paying for or that should be done a different way.
Seems to me that there are several forces at work. First as younger folks don't learn about the role of tipping, legit tips decrease (the percentage of those who tip 0%) so the "standard" went from 15 to 20% to make up the difference. Second, real wages have dipped generationally, which leads to the same incentive
Lastly upstart apps like Square put the tip
"option" on any transaction as they are paid a percentage of the total bill.
I think the fact that so many arbitrary businesses now expect tips may end up undermining the practice, even for legitimate service-based businesses. You are probably right that it is related to the software.
Sometimes, you just need to learn to say: "no".
I don't want you to jeopardize your anonymity here on the forum, but have you been asked to join the Trump team there in Georgia. Just based on your posts on the Shoutbox, I think you'd be a perfect fit.
From a functional point of view, waitstaff have lower than minimum wage hourly salaries in anticipation of tip income. Counter staff and retail staff get at least minimum wage.
For some reason the idea of horses coming from a specific location has always been wild to me. It shouldn't be, but it is. It's crazy to think that at one point in the past (pre-history?) horses weren't domesticated. Trying to imagine that process is also a mind bender.
There certainly are a lot of never domesticated equines out there. Apparently Zebras, for example, are very difficult to domesticate.
It's even more of a mind bender to think of all the domesticated species which never existed as undomesticated. How did they come into existence? The history of corn, for example, is amaizing.
How? Through interbreeding. While true that certain plants, like corn don't have a true single undomesticated "parent" species, they have two (superficially unlike) parents.
Water buffalo were domesticated; bison, on the other hand, have too many behavior traits that make them unmanageable. Ask people who were gored by bison in Yellowstone National Park.
Quoting LuckyR
Plant breeding is often quite tricky. If you plant the seed from an apple that was just terrific, its progeny might be perfectly awful. Why? Because the tree produces the apple; its genes rule the apple. The seed, on the other hand, comes from the blossoms and that shakes up the gene pool.
Apple trees in orchards are usually grafted onto root stock.
How do you get new apple varieties? Through pollination. Breeders can leave it to the bees, and see what happens. Or do hand pollination every spring from desirable apple varieties.
The Malinda Apple is the parent, grandparent, or great grandparent of the Chestnut Crab, Folwell, Haralson, Beacon, Honeygold, Honeycrisp, Keepsake, Minnehaha, MN 1606, and Sweet Sixteen. Malinda originated in New England, but Haralson, Beacon, Honeycrisp, Keepsake, and MN 166 were bred by the University of Minnesota to be hardy in growing zone 3 and 4.
• without physics there'd be no metaphysics
• without metaphysics there'd be no physics
Simple breeding does not cause a new species, because this requires genetic modifications, manipulation, or plain old mutations. Dogs are an interesting example. As a species they are very prone to genetic mutations, this has facilitated the production of many different breeds. So not only do specific features which result from genetic mutations get selected for, to produce desirable breeds, but the propensity for genetic mutations itself has been selected for, to enable the capacity to produce many different breeds.
New genes (can) lead to physical differences, which humans find desirable. Whether that "new" (to the species of interest) gene comes from a mutation or borrowed from a different species (through interbreeding), it ultimately doesn't matter.
Humans and chimps are closely related, but (thank god) not quite closely enough -- so no mating there. On the other hand, Neanderthals and Homo sapiens were closely enough related that we could mate--and did.
In the strict sense, different species do not interbreed, as BC pointed out. I think that's actually what defines a "species", reproductive boundaries.
That itself, is another very interesting topic. What shapes, forms, and initiates the reproductive boundaries. As individuals, we all display sexual preferences, the types we are attracted to, and these preferences are very important in Darwinian evolutionary theory, as required for sustaining any particular variation. But at what point in the evolutionary process, and how does it occur, that a boundary gets crossed, and the selection of a reproductive partner goes beyond being a matter of choice, to become a matter of physical impossibility, such that the sustained variation is then a newly evolved species?
Quoting T Clark
The question mark is not inverted. It is converted. Therefore the old Testament's claim stays: God is Jewish.
That's A. B. is that if you move your focus from the Great Questionmark in the sky, you will see a face, the next large constellation, that to my consternation looks like the archetypal depictor of the devil. Satan. So hell is not in the bowels of the Earth, hell resides upstairs.
This has great implicit teleologically theoretic theological implications. It means, at least to me, that God has forgiven all sinners, Hell got closed down, and now everyone dwells well on the right of the Lord.
Soylent Green is people.
Given the way things are going, I'm pretty sure those are AI generated chicken legs.
You're correct though I didn't provide enough detail. The corn example has a circuitous route to the modern genetics. Namely, the first parent species (a Mexican grass) begot the second subspecies (a form of maize) and interbreeding between the two (subspecies) lead to modern corn.
Now, back to the dogs. DNA analysis has shown that wolves, coyotes, and dogs all interbreed. So I would think that in reality, these are all one species, and we just didn't know this until we got the DNA analysis. Or is it the case that "a species" (that's a strange word, why is "a species" plural?) is incorrectly defined through reproductive limitations?
You have emergence and breakup of ring species for example.
Biology ain't neat and simple.
Discovery overrules definition.
Actually domesticated dogs and dingos are subspecies of the wolf, ie they're within the same species.
This will really blow your mind: there still exist wild horses today! :starstruck:
I know this for certain, because I saw it in a movie once. In Legends of the Fall Susannah Fincannon (Julia Ormond) falls in love with Tristan Ludlow (Brad Pitt), the wild Cree-raised cowboy. She falls in love—naturally—when she sees him "Bronc riding" and taming a wild mare that he caught.
For what it's worth, all the wild horses in the western hemisphere are feral, i.e. they are the descendants of domesticated horses that escaped. There may still be wild, never-domesticated horses in Central Asia, I don't know. As I noted, there are quite a few species of wild, undomesticated equines in the world.
Candied pine cones, a Russian delicacy. I bet you didn't know you could eat pine cones.
What do they taste like, you ask? Kinda like you'd expect, but sweet.
Weird.
Good roughage at least...
Stop eating weird roughage and start reading the short stories.
Quoting Scrips News Service
A man can do both. I’ve read one, not sure what to say about it. Will read more.
You make sense of that.
I started a poem. It was the ballad of a goat. I had a good first few lines, but grew bored. Neath my sword. On the fjord.
He probably eats pine cones. Like a squirrel. Like a Russian.
Make sense of that.
Nice story! I voted "I enjoyed it".
Unlike my other true stories, this one was true.
It's a quick glimpse into what I'm capable of:
"Sonny and Cher brought me their underwear which I pulled to my knee until he slammed in the tree."
I saw a Russian squirrel today. It had a walnut.
Quoting Scrips News Service
This is one of those rare accidents that saves lives.
:up:
In case you haven't been paying attention, I have been documenting an alarming series of "accidents" over the past year. Here are links to my previous posts.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/816786
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/816510
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/741764
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/739735
Coincidence?
Even worse cheese catastrophe news:
Yes, I saw that but decided not to post. I stick to truck-related catastrophes.
I happen to be of the opinion that all catastrocheeses (a term that I just minted) should be reported indiscriminately. What's gouda for the goose is gouda for the gander, as the saying goes.
Perhaps then you have found a new calling. My portfolio covers strictly truck- or at least transportation-related catastrophes.
:chin: Perhaps... a literal cottage cheese news industry.
If you are taking on the cheese beat, I'll keep on the lookout for interesting stories on Velveeta.
A very Kraft-y pun.
Because God is the ultimate leftie.
:lol:
I mean, I hardly ever do that. :monkey:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hNGbUrJtaP8
Further investigation has revealed to me that banning the export of pine nuts is supposed to help protect the cedar forest.
Actually the lack of the necessities that money can buy, brings despair. Money alleviates that despair, but does not bring happiness.
But don't your needs track the available funds? If you had more, wouldn't you use it? Or would you just save it or give it away?
Quoting Noble Dust
:up:
Quoting LuckyR
Although, there's something magical about unspent potential.
The old number people used to cite that represented the amount you had to make in order to be happy (with happiness not increasing after this number) was $75,000 a year. The new study says that number is $500,000 a year. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/money-happiness-study-daniel-kahneman-500000-versus-75000/
I find this study helpful in quantifying how far each of us are away from happiness. Like if I make $150,000 per year, I can know know two things: (1) I'm exactly $350,000 away from being happy, and (2) I'll never make that much more, so I can be happy knowing I'll never be happy, but maybe I'll be sad knowing that. I'm not sure how that works..
It also tells me things about other people. Like I don't need to ask you if you're happy and listen to all your subjective blah blah blah, but I can just look at your paystub and know whether you're happy or not. If someone tells me they're not happy and I find out they make $600,000, I'll know they're lying and that'll piss me off for two reasons: (1) they are liars, and (2) they are happy even though they lie when a fair world would make liars unhappy. Maybe I'd be happy to know that, but I think that might still depend upon how much I make for me to be happy.
HOLD THE PHONE! I just did some more research. Only the top 1% make $500,000 (that number is $580,000 for people in Connecticut). That means that 99% of the people are unhappy. I'm happy to know that I'm among friends in that 99% group, but maybe that makes me unhappy. I still don't know how that works. https://www.financialsamurai.com/how-much-money-do-the-top-income-earners-make-percent/#:~:text=The%20top%201%25%20income%20earner,make%20over%20%24580%2C000%20a%20year.
A thought experiment: You live in Deleware (and you use Tupperware because it ryhymes, but that's an aside), and you're happy as all get out because you make $500k per year. I mean you dance, you sing, and you have sex with supermodels that wear angel wings, but then you move to Connecticut (out of etiquette). Do you cease to be happy?
I think I've raised some really good points.
I am hold a phone. Totally unrelated, do you believe in karma? Like you reap what you sow?
I feel like if something bad happens to me, it's the result of someone else's karma because my sadness affects others more than it affects me.
Like if you're a bad person, my toe might start hurting, and you'll be like "Fuck! I hate that Hanover's toe hurts," and that will make you sadder than if your own toe hurt.
Another example would be like if you had a really hot wife, you'd think maybe you've been a good person, but actually she was a bad person, so she's stuck with you.
So, yes, I do believe in karma, but it's very complicated. In fact, part of its complicatedness is a karmic response to my liking things uncomplicated, but once I double dipped my nacho into the cheese dip and now I'm fucked that way due to karmic fairness powers.
I'll text her that right now just to remind her and include a broccoli emoji.
Ok, good.
Lebanon moves to ban 'Barbie' film for 'promoting homosexuality'
[sup]— Laila Bassam, Maya Gebeily, Toby Chopra, Nick Macfie, Shri Navaratnam · Reuters · Aug 9, 2023[/sup]
Iraq bans the word "homosexual" on all media platforms and offers an alternative
[sup]— Khaled Wassef · CBS · Aug 10, 2023[/sup]
... "sexual deviancy".
Kuwait bans Barbie movie as Lebanese minister calls for action
[sup]— Al Jazeera · Aug 10, 2023[/sup]
Quoting Ayman Mhanna
(have some friends that are affected, inclined to speak up on their behalf)
These trends may represent less "retrogression" (having not progressed a lot in the first place) than resurgence of negative policies towards homosexuals.
Christian denominations that have a world-wide presence--Methodists and Anglicans, for instance--have been split by conservatives in Africa and Liberals in the US and UK. For Methodists, the issue has resulted in a literal division of the church into two separate bodies. While homosexuality wasn't the main issue at the time, the Lutheran community was split up and reorganized in the 1980s by doctrinal divisions between very conservative members of the Missouri Synod Lutheran Church and centrist Lutherans in the other two Lutheran bodies.
I don't know much about it, but Islam apparently has friction between more liberal and more conservative tendencies.
The thing is, one can't rest secure in the certainty that liberal attitudes will prevail without regular maintenance service.
I removed this nail from my car tire and plugged it. That's how handy I am. So you know.
Production of corpses by suicides is up too, among the usual suspects. Rural people are committing suicide more often these days. Having grown up in rural America, this seems entirely predictable. There are reasons why rural America is becoming depopulated--maybe not depopulated quite fast enough.
The Medical Establishment is now taking the position that any use of alcohol is unsafe. That sip of communion wine? Deadly. A glass of wine every day? Terminal alcoholism, clearly.
After all this good news, I need a drink!
Anyway, all that is an aside. I must have picked up a nail while driving about on the roof
The customary death by alcohol is liver disease, which can cause the esophagus to start bleeding. They put a giant hose down in there to blanch it, but that doesn't always work.
Breakdown of the Newton–Einstein Standard Gravity at Low Acceleration in Internal Dynamics of Wide Binary Stars
[sup]— Kyu-Hyun Chae · The Astrophysical Journal · Jul 24, 2023[/sup]
'Unbelievable': Astronomer Claims 'Direct Evidence' of Gravity Breaking Down
[sup]— Becky Ferreira · Vice · Aug 9, 2023[/sup]
They call deaths by suicide, drugs, or alcohol "deaths of despair." Here are some shocking, to me, graphs.
And here's a graph of overall mortality rates. USW means Non-Hispanic white people in the US.
Key: U.S. White non-Hispanics (USW), US Hispanics (USH), and six comparison countries: France (FRA), Germany (GER), the United Kingdom (UK), Canada (CAN), Australia (AUS), and Sweden (SWE). (PNAS)
— LuckyR
Although, there's something magical about unspent potential
If you mean, cash reserves when you say unspent potential, then I agree money can give peace of mind (meaning protection against the despair brought about from potential future severe poverty, which is still different from happiness).
Ha ha, humorous post.
But seriously you're citing questionnaire research (self reported) which is essentially garbage. There are plenty of "bragging rights" motivations for rich folk to claim imaginary happiness that doesn't exist. What is needed for those seeking to seriously explore this area is an objective measure (or marker) for happiness. When such data comes out I will be shocked if there is a measurable difference in happiness between those with $350k and $500k incomes.
Please elucidate the topic of the Medical Establishment.
"Research" shows that even small amounts of alcohol are harmful. Like, you know, in a laboratory a small amount of alcohol would damage the liver cells in a petri dish. A PhD in public health takes the experimental results and announces that no safe level of alcohol exists. Clinic managers read the report and lower the threshold at which clinic practitioners should be concerned about drinking.
"No safe level of alcohol" might be true for a developing fetus or someone with liver disease. Otherwise, "no safe level" seems like a pretty extreme position. "Alcohol" isn't an essential nutrient; it's an essential lubricant.
The "medical establishment" is responsible for deciding that patients "admit" or "deny" using alcohol or street drugs, exercising daily, flossing, avoiding fat pork chops, etc. Like, if I say I don't drink, the chart says I deny it. If I say I do, the chart says I admit it. Hey I didn't take an oath at the reception desk!
The "medical establishment" that I am thinking of is less involved in medical care and more involved in medical policy. Of course, smoking, drinking, no exercise, a fat / salt / sugar-flled diet--all that is unhealthy. That doesn't mean that drinking a beer is the same as end-stage alcoholism or that occasional pork chops produce heart attacks.
All that said, a lot of Americans are unhealthy. See T Clark's charts above.
Ah so. Sure, groups like the American Cancer Society etc exist and make general, blanket statements like your examples. Mainly because they exist mainly in the layman's realm (putting on press conferences and appearing in the media). But most clinical practitioners use guidelines based out of the society that governs Board certification within their specialty which have a track record of delving into the details of real life clinical practice (since while lead by researchers, is made up of practicing individuals).
I generally trust doctors, but there are varying approaches which can be confusing. Zero alcohol for pregnant women makes sense to me. That smoking is harmful and has no health benefits is a pretty well established fact. But... at what point are statins really beneficial? Blood pressure medications can be tricky to calibrate, and what about people with 'white coat syndrome' (their blood pressure goes up when they are in an exam room with a doctor--I don't have that problem)? Is knowing one's BMI helpful to most people?
And then, despite the best possible care, we have a strong tendency to drop dead at some point.
You still have the power to choose which risks to take. It's safest never to drink a beer, eat a pork rib, have sex, cross the street or zip up your pants too quickly. But we have to live our lives, and if your risk tolerance is high enough for a beer, then do it, but that doesn't mean the assessment that life is safer without beer isn't true.
I generally follow doctors recommendations, even if I don't like them. I did resist taking statins for a few years, but now I do. And bp meds, benign prostate enlargement meds, vitamin D3, and a small dose anti-depressant. I tried melatonin and it seems to work, but so does just going to bed without taking it.
I also follow my dentist's directions. I floss daily, use a Water Pik, electric toothbrush, etc. It took decades to start daily flossing.
So if you don't like the ways things are, just wait and it'll change. It's like holding onto those really wide ties. They'll eventually come back in style.
Quoting boethius
It's the only way to make a corn dolly.
So that's all they need. That ever present threat
Llama On The Loose
Caption - Quoting Newsweek
Oh, I miss talking about food on The Shoutbox...
You guys all discuss high falutin food. The only foods I want to talk about are Velveeta; pork chops on a stick; and cheese, beer, or sugar on the highway.
Have you ever seen John Mulaney's bit about "A horse loose in the hospital?" (link)
Pigs are skinnier now than they used to be; humans (known as "long pig" among cannibals) have taken up the slack.
Ideal Sunday dinner: pork loin with a nicely browned fat layer on top, served with apple sauce, potato, and pork gravy. Plus other stuff. Baked buttercup squash and sweet corn in late summer and fall. Apple pie for desert.
Local legend has it that the nearby town of Sugar Hill, Georgia got its name when a wagon filled with sugar overturned.
https://www.northgwinnettvoice.com/sugar-hill-a-past-and-maybe-a-name-like-no-other/
But like most true stories, some aren't.
:chin:
Reminds me of a Brady Bunch episode.
I feel like I've channeled my inner Yogi Berra.
Who?
https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/13722209/top-10-yogi-isms
Nothing quenches the thirst for you and your camel than a flaky fruit filled treat.
How much time should I spend overthinking it?
Quoting Hanover
I know that guy. He’s the one who said when you reach a fork in the road, take it. A personal hero of mine.
Interesting data! We only produce 32.796 million pounds. Maybe it is due to the tightness of our peninsula compared to the vast territories of the USA.
A hundred hogs on a farm smells OK. 10,000 hogs on a farm produces a thick, suffocating fecal stench. As odors go, it's worse than a badly operated oil refinery.
There was a very well-known restaurant in Boston for many years - Durgin Park. Solid old New England American food. I ordered exactly what you described above whenever I went there. I didn't go often enough that I ever got tired of it. Durgin Park is long gone now. It was located in the touristy Faneuil Hall Marketplace near the harbor and it couldn't compete with the food court.
Instead of apple pie for desert, I had Indian pudding, which is an old fashioned pudding made with molasses and corn meal. Terrible stuff unless you put on a lot of vanilla ice cream, which I did.
The article you linked said it was 100 lbs. of sugar. A fairly piddly amount to name a geographical feature after. Of course you've heard of Boston's famous molasses spill that killed about 20 people. That was more than 2 million gallons and we didn't change the name of the North End to Treacle Hill.
No names were changed here, either, but the greasy mess did lead to the creation of the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency, along with enabling enforcement legislation.
Honeymead is still in business in Mankato, but is owned by Cargill, Inc.
Often the unsung heroes are the thousands of seagulls who fly directly into the disaster areas and flap their wings in the thick oil in order to soak up to mess to save the villagers.
That comment was even insensitive for me if I do say so myself.
I'm sure they have corn dogs at the Iowa State Fair too, along with corn on the cob, fried dough, fried butter, fried pickles, funnel cakes... But I ain't flying to Iowa for no corn dog.
No problem.
Quoting BC
No. the Indian pudding tasted bad because it was made of molasses and corn meal. I guess it was all the rage in 1620.
I think that is a bit unfair! I have been reading the stories and do plan to read the poetry afterwards. I didn't write the comment above to put pressure on people, but to simply point to the presence of the the threads. It is not homework to be done but, hopefully, pleasurable reading!
Yes, I overstated my dislike. On the other hand, I wouldn't have eaten it without the ice cream.
Here's a link to the indictment:
https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/23909543/23sc188947-criminal-indictment.pdf
What do you think the verdicts will be?
G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, G, NG, G, NG, G, hung, NG, G, G, NG, NG, hung, NG, NG, G, G, NG, G, G, hung, NG, NG, G, G.
As far as you know, I was on that grand jury and I heroically busted into the courtroom and handed the judge the indictment, half the crowd cheering, the other half booing, and the third half doing the Charleston in full flapper regalia.
After I went to bed last night, they decided to go ahead and have the trial right away. So, they finished it early this morning. Not guilty on all counts and the judge determined that Trump had won the election after all. One of the witnesses found 11,781 votes. They'd left them in their pants when they sent them to the dry cleaner. Giuliani was convicted on all counts and sentenced to die. They [s]hung[/s] hanged him at dawn. That was before they found all the votes. The judge, an old Saturday Night Live fan, said "Oh, never mind."
True story.
Quoting Hanover
I just assumed you were.
He didn't die though. He just swung back and forth like a pendulum. They took him down and he kept swinging, so they loaded him up in a grandfather clock and he's been keeping perfect time since early this morning. The going joke is that he is grandfather in a grandfather clock.
Then what happened is that his schlong snuck out and began its own swinging fit, so that got loaded into a mini-grandfather clock and it too is keeping perfect time. The going joke is that it's being called a grandfather cock clock.
There's a really fun vibe around the courthouse right now.
I hope they decide to go to trial early rather than after the feds. The Georgia trial may be the only one televised and I'm tired of "I Love Lucy" reruns. Oh, Donny. You've got some splaining to do!
Isn't it they hanged him at dawn?
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
What's a corn dog?
From Merriam-Webster:
I'll revise my post.
Quoting Tom Storm
Quoting Wikipedia
I assumed they hung him as a picture of himself. It's a hyperrealist art form.
Don't be fooled by T Clark's posted picture of "corn dog". They are not delicious.
Wieners (after people who lived in Vienna and invented the now degraded sausage referred to as the "hot dog") are dipped in a cornmeal batter then deep fat fried in what always tastes of old oil containing residues of fish, onion rings, clams, tuna fish hot dish on a stick, dill pickle on a stick--all shit on a stick.
Natural casing wieners, cooked in several possible ways that doesn't involve deep fat or corn meal, served on a fresh roll (with sour kraut or horseradish mustard if you hail from Die Schöne Deutschland) is a civilized dish. Corn dogs are pig food sold at state fairs. Disgusting.
I don't think you're watching as many videos about Korean street food as you could.
Errr. Doesn't look very appetizing.
It was a win win. We"d have married had she not gotten a hankering for the taco, which was something I just wasn't able to accommodate.
True story.
Did she have a beard?
I fear wokeness has eliminated many of the opportunities bearded women could once rely upon.
At my last carnival, I paid $1 to go into a small room to see the world's smallest horse. It was indeed small. So small I'd have thought it a pony.
Somehow you've changed into a British person from the 19th Century.
I'd have said £1 instead of $1 if I were British.
Could have been an alternate reality where the capital of the British Empire is Philadelphia.
story? He's not swave enough to have that on his resume. .
If you go back and check my posts, you'll see I never endorsed them. I don't remember ever having one. I was expressing my interest in the pork chop on a stick.
Never said you did. Just reacting to a photo as shocking to me as frame 313 of the Zapruder film.
What’s not to like?
The really disgusting bit is that they look better than they taste.
I see... I've never been to a country show. But I did once have a knee-trembler in a laundrette on River Street in Ballina.
"All words are more words, and therefore, all words are silly"
Due to a request to remove user data. I didn't see a way to do this without deleting the thread.
Haven't we all?
I suppose the American to Aussie translation is that a country show is a county fair, so what we're talking about is fair fare.
Dagwood to me references the Blondie comic strip, so a Dagwood sandwich would be a deli sandwich stacked high, but wiki tells me your corn dog is somehow related to that comic strip as well.
Blondie spoke of a heart of glass, and since I'm all about free association, Miley singing the Blondie classic:
Sounds fair.
Hollly shit sam kerr can kick.
I think if Hanover was in the Philidelphia story, he'd be Katherine Hepburn. You would be James Stewart, and I would be Cary Grant, obviously.
I'll be Claude King (uncredited). He played Uncle Willie's butler.
If he's uncredited, how did you know it's Claude King?
I deduced it logically:
If Claude King didn't play Uncle Willie's butler, someone else did.
Someone else did not play Uncle Willie's butler.
Therefore, Claude King played Uncle Willie's butler.
Why not?
If I remember correctly, it had Frank Sinatra, Bing Crosby, and Grace Kelly.
Quoting BC
You think Frank miscast himself as Cary Grant because Frank isn't gay, but you see nothing unusual with me being cast as Katherine Hepburn?
Take a second to be blown away by everything you have.
As in, why did they have seperate competitions anyway, as if men are genetically superior at chess? Statistically it is obvious that men dominate chess, but are we now claiming that it is genetic? Or, is this just a matter of women being under-represented in chess and the best way to promote their participation is to allow them to compete against one another and allowing in trans competitors would hurt this effort?
At the amatuer level, I don't actually ever recall there being a seperate women's class and the women competed against men all grouped by skill rating level. Outside of a very large tournament, I don't think you'd even be able to have the women in a seperate group because there wouldn't be enough of women for their own group.
This apparently arises from from this case of Yosha Iglesias, a trans woman FIDE rated at 2249, which puts her at a master level, but, overall, far from elite in the women's catagory.
Sounds like a challenge. Gentlemen, let the games begin.
I like Hawaiian shirts, glassware, Barbara Streisand, women's dresses (I don't wear them), and musical comedy. On the other hand, I'm not attracted to men sexually. Is that a deal breaker?