Take me to the corner of Eliminative Materialism and Wishful Thinking. There's an extra $10 in it if you can get me there before @universeness.
unenlightenedSeptember 25, 2022 at 07:08#7422550 likes
Reply to Tom Storm I'm going the other way, bro, up the hill to moral realism - and don't insult me with your money, dude, we're all brothers and sisters of the revolution.
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 07:42#7422580 likes
unenlightenedSeptember 25, 2022 at 08:08#7422660 likes
Reply to Tom Storm So build your own imaginary transport system, you rugged individualist, and stop trying to usurp mine.
universenessSeptember 25, 2022 at 11:08#7422930 likes
Reply to unenlightened Reply to Tom Storm
:lol: Reading the short exchange between Tom and unenlightened was both fun and actually quite revealing, for my deserved label of philosophical neophyte as legitimately thrown at me by a few TPF members during exchanges with them.
But as I 'googled my ass off,' (to borrow a claim made by (imo) a particularly mad theist member of TPF), with terms like 'eliminative materialism,' 'moral realism,' and 'rugged individualism.' I began to appreciate that I fully understood and was familiar with the underlying meanings of these labels. I am indeed a neophyte when it comes to familiarity with the elitist nomenclature used in philosophy. I don't mean this as a criticism of philosophy as my own field of computing science has its own elitist nomenclature as does all fields of science. I call such nomenclatures elitist as only a few achieve fluency through years of study and the many are left to 'google their ass off,' and had to use much slower methods before google. In a face-to-face encounter with no google access, I would soon be unable to contribute to an exchange that included unfamiliar philosophical labels. I look forward to the day when we can all be connected to 'universal translators,' that can quickly translate elitist labels into personal descriptions we can understand during exchanges. We will be able to communicate with each other in much better ways when/if such translator tech becomes available.
Take me to the corner of Eliminative Materialism and Wishful Thinking. There's an extra $10 in it if you can get me there before @universeness.
He is correct, I am a 'wishful thinker,' as I am an optimist, who believes that the human race is of great benefit to the universe as we ask questions, but I fully accept that we have a brutal and bloody history and we have not learned how to be a globally united species, we still live mainly by 'law of the jungle' doctrine but we are also very, very, very young based on the proposed 13.8 billion years of 'past' time. I will always state to pessimists, anti-life people, doomsters etc 'Give us a fecking chance!' Another million years of science at least!
I am 'eliminative' in many senses. My atheism is of the strong rather than weak flavour and my socialism and humanism run very deep. I agree with the wiki sentence: Eliminativists argue that, based on these and other criteria, commonsense "folk" psychology has failed and will eventually need to be replaced with explanations derived from the neurosciences. These philosophers therefore tend to emphasize the importance of neuroscientific research as well as developments in artificial intelligence to sustain their thesis.
But, I don't agree that we should reject the idea of self. Again from wiki: (In fact, on a general view, the history of the eliminativist view can be traced back to David Hume, who rejected the idea of the "self" on the grounds that it was not based on any impression.)
I think few people fit perfectly into any label. The label of socialism has been very abused and misused in the past and continues to be in my opinion.
From wiki:
[b]The robust model of moral realism commits moral realists to three theses: The semantic thesis: The primary semantic role of moral predicates (such as "right" and "wrong") is to refer to moral properties (such as rightness and wrongness), so that moral statements (such as "honesty is good" and "slavery is unjust") purport to represent moral facts, and express propositions that are true or false (or approximately true, largely false, and so on). The alethic thesis: Some moral propositions are in fact true. The metaphysical thesis: Moral propositions are true when actions and other objects of moral assessment have the relevant moral properties (so that the relevant moral facts obtain), where these facts and properties are robust: their metaphysical status, whatever it is, is not relevantly different from that of (certain types of) ordinary non-moral facts and properties.[/b]
Based on this, I have attraction to semantic and alethic moral realism but not its metaphysical flavour as that flavour seems to allow credence for such statements as god is good or god is just.
?Tom Storm So build your own imaginary transport system, you rugged individualist, and stop trying to usurp mine.
:lol: The term 'banter is allowed in philosophical discourse,' feeds my optimism and hope towards my fellows. Perhaps the human race is not doomed. From wiki:
[b]Rugged individualism, derived from individualism, is a term that indicates that an individual is self-reliant and independent from outside, usually state or government, assistance. While the term is often associated with the notion of laissez-faire and associated adherents, it was actually coined by United States president Herbert Hoover.
American rugged individualism has its origins in the American frontier experience. Throughout its evolution, the American frontier was generally sparsely populated and had very little infrastructure in place. Under such conditions, individuals had to provide for themselves to survive. This kind of environment forced people to work in isolation from the larger community and may have altered attitudes at the frontier in favor of individualistic thought over collectivism.[/b]
Calling Tom a 'rugged individualist,' is kinda funny!
YEAH I KNOW. I quote from wiki too much and need to reference other sources!
Metaphysician UndercoverSeptember 25, 2022 at 11:18#7422950 likes
When the hitch hiker starts offering to pay for gas, it's a dangerous situation. Next the hitch hiker tells you where to turn and which roads to take, potentially leading you into a trap. Then the tables are turned. But iIn reality the hitch hiker is at the mercy of the driver, and could wind up gone without a trace. That's why parents used to tell their kids not to hitch hike. Now the kids capture a digital image of everything and it's floating somewhere in a cloud, so "gone without a trace" is unrealistic. But I haven't seen any hitch hikers lately.
universenessSeptember 25, 2022 at 13:14#7423110 likes
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
Do you see hitch hikers as rugged individualists, poor people trying to make do, generally dangerous, easy meat, all of the above or just one of your fav examples of what is right (freedom of the open road) or wrong (dependant on the whim of the driver's moral realism)?
Oh, to hell then. Jump aboard, we'll be there in no time.
Lookout for any uninvited hitch hikers on the way, especially if they are undercover metaphysicians! :death: (I like emoji's, they offer a little relief for the typing fingers.)
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 19:29#7423580 likes
Reply to universeness I read somewhere that emojis are simply punctuation at its most evolved.
I read somewhere that emojis are simply punctuation at its most evolved.
Looking back through history, Aristotle never used emojis. Neither did Plato, Kant, Knee-chi, or Schopenhauer.
universenessSeptember 25, 2022 at 20:14#7423650 likes
Reply to Tom Storm
Do you really feel that way Tom or are you having a wee dig at my lazy relationship with punctuation?
I prefer the 'a picture paints a thousand words,' claim.
Edit: Let big Telly confirm;
Edit 2: Big telly suggests a man in a state of quantum superposition in this song, along with the heat death of the Universe just as humans learn how to fly without machines. Who knew?
Reply to T Clark
If the internet and TPF existed around 400 BC, Edit 3: during a plague crisis when aristotle was taught on-line using ?????? ???????? (face time).
Plato: It's all about forms boy, now sit up straight (part of edit 3:) At your computer, and listen to your teacher! :naughty: :angry:
Aristotle: :cry: But sir! it's NOT, NOT, NOT! Its all about IDEALS! :love: :fear: :halo: :flower:
Plato: You are such a child! :roll: To become a man you must listen to your teachers, you must strive to reach the pure form of human, you little shit!
Aristotle: :broken:
I wonder what emoji's Kant, Schopenhauer and Knee who? (Edit 4: Ah! Nietzsche,) would have used if they were TPF members? Waddyafink? :chin:
Edit 5: Too many edits required for this laboured :joke:
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 21:11#7423730 likes
Looking back through history, Aristotle never used emojis. Neither did Plato, Kant, Knee-chi, or Schopenhauer.
Sure, but they never got anywhere. Shakespeare however, when he ran out of neologism, used emojis liberally - :chin: :smile: : :down: :worry: :death: :flower: :confused: :ok:
That's his original draft of 'To be or not to be... '
Too much very important news — notably worldly suffering and tragedy — was overridden/omitted to make available as much newsprint and broadcast-time as possible for the passing of Queen Elizabeth. With all due respect, she's one person, however beloved and special to many people. And I'm far from being the only news-consumer troubled by this clear inequity involving news coverage.
Every time I turned to Canada's national CBC news channel, day or night, it was various forms of this.
A renowned newsman once justly implicated the Western world's news coverage and consuming callousness and imbalance: “A hundred Pakistanis going off a mountain in a bus make less of a story than three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.”
Therefor the verse below I penned:
[i]WITH news-stories’ human subjects’ race and culture dictating
quantity of media coverage of even the poorest of souls,
a renowned newsman formulated a startling equation
justly implicating collective humanity’s news-consuming callousness
— “A hundred Pakistanis going off a mountain in a bus
make less of a story than three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.”
According to this unjust news-media mentality reasonably deduced
five hundred prolongedly-war-weary Middle Eastern Arabs getting blown
to bits in the same day perhaps should take up even less space and airtime.
So readily learned is the tiny token short story buried in the bottom
right-hand corner of the newspaper’s last page, the so brief account
involving a long-lasting war about which there’s virtually absolutely
nothing civil; therefore caught in the warring web are civilians most
unfortunate, most weak, the very most in need of peace and civility.
And it’s naught but business as usual in the damned nations
where such severe suffering almost entirely dominates the
fractured structured daily routine of civilian slaughter
(plus that of the odd well-armed henchman) mostly by means
of bomb blasts from incendiary explosive devices,
rock-fire fragments and shell shock readily shared with freshly shredded
shrapnel wounds resulting from smart bombs sometimes launched for
the stupidest of reasons into crowded markets and grade schools.
Hence where humane consideration and conduct were unquestionably
due post haste came only few allocated seconds of sound bite — a half minute
if news-media were with extra space or time to spare — and one or two
printed paragraphs on page twenty-three of Section C; such news
consumed in the stable fully developed, fully ‘civilized’ Western world
by heads slowly shaking at the barbarity of ‘those people’ in that
war-torn strife which has forced tens of thousands of civilians to post haste
gather what’s left of their shattered lives and limbs and flee.
Thus comes the imminent point at which such meager-measure
couple-column-inches coverage reflects the civil Western readers’
accumulating apathy towards such dime-a-dozen disaster zones
of the globe, all accompanied by a large yawn; then the
said readers subconsciously perceive even greater human-life devaluation
from the miniscule ‘hundreds-dead-yet-again’ coverage.
Consequently continues the self-perpetuation of the token-two-column-inch
(non)coverage as the coldly calculated worth of such common mass slaughter,
ergo those many-score violently lost human lives are somehow worth
so much the less than, say, three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.
Perhaps had they all been cases of the once-persecuted suddenly
persecuting or the once-weak wreaking havoc upon their neighboring indigenous
minorities — perhaps then there’d be far more compassionately just coverage?
The human mind is said to be worth much more than the sum of the
human body’s parts, though that psyche may somehow seem to be of
lesser value if all that’s left is naught but bomb-blast-dismembered body parts.[/i]
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 22:46#7424010 likes
the passing of Queen Elizabeth. With all due respect, she's one person, however beloved and special to many people.
I'm yet to meet anyone here in this Commonwealth who cares. The best people can say is she did a 'professional job' whatever that is supposed to mean. Yes, she was a professional martyr to duty - a victim of her caste and someone who again and again surrendered her humanity to play impassive head of state in a world which generally thinks royalty is just another form of reality TV celebrity.
Question to all youse well educated philosophers, vying for an educated guess.
I've thought about it hard. I came to a conclusion. We must be living in a Cartesian simulation. Evolution makes less sense. A simulation makes more sense than evolution. You might ask me who created the creator. I do have some thoughts on that too. What do you think though?
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 23:30#7424220 likes
Reply to Sapien1 How did you determine that a simulation makes more sense than evolution? Who created the simulation? Is it programmers all the way down?
Reply to Tom Storm Take occam's razor for example. The simplest explanation is the best explanation. What is simpler, consciousness arising from nothing, sex organs evolving, the urge to have sex being so primal etc or there being a huge intelligence that boomed all that there is into existence. Another reason i prefer the simulation theory, "The indeterminate extent of space" how far exactly does it go.
If i might add jokingly, the urge to have sex is synthetic a-priori. ps- i don't exactly know what I just said, but it makes some sort of sense.
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 23:49#7424300 likes
Reply to Sapien1 Hmm.. I think Occam actually said, Numquam ponenda est pluralitas sine necessitate. Which means, 'If you don't understand something complex always respond with a cheap shot and move on swiftly.'
Here's a cheap shot. Everytime I have a psychedelic experience, my mind goes into 'seeing God mode'. Ofcourse I do not experience it much whilst sober. And I'm mostly sober now-a-days.
Tom StormSeptember 25, 2022 at 23:59#7424330 likes
Wese well educated philosophers wonder why the idea of us all living in a simulation keeps coming up. Did somebody make a movie about it, or something?
civil Western readers’
accumulating apathy towards such dime-a-dozen disaster zones
of the globe, all accompanied by a large yawn
Well done!
But this western reader has only so much compassion to go around. It isn't that I don't care enough; it's that I can't care enough. One dead queen allows more focus than the 10,000 bad things that happened yesterday.
Besides, the news of the world's disaster won't all fit on the front page. We want our story to be on the top half of the front page, but it takes many pages and miles of column inches (and fairly small print) to briefly mention only some of the disasters.
And then there is theater. QEII's demise was better theater than any bus in Pakistan sliding off the road and plunging into a gorge--in the dark. The dead aboard the bus are a greater sorrow than the death of some elderly Windsor, but "the news" is often more about theater than sorrow.
Fun fact: some spring-flowering trees are in flower in England. Many lost leaves early due to drought and withdrew into winter mode, so now I guess it's spring again. I saw a cherry and horse chestnut in flower yesterday.
Looking back through history, Aristotle never used emojis. Neither did Plato, Kant, Knee-chi, or Schopenhauer.
Reply to Tom Storm
Did you get the Knee-chi (Nietzsche) play before me? It struck me just as I was falling asleep last night!
Am gettin slow in ma auld dotage! Surely a rugged individualist like you saw through @T Clark's phonetic word play instantly! Anyway, is it not more phonetically accurate to type knee-che or knee-cha not knee-chi. Perhaps thats why I never got it straight away! That's the excuse I am going with anyway!
Tom StormSeptember 26, 2022 at 10:48#7425580 likes
Reply to universeness Yep - I'd write it phonetically as Nee-chuh. I imagine Clarky was playing on the average American pronunciation, which is somewhat gaudy.
universenessSeptember 26, 2022 at 13:06#7425890 likes
Reply to Tom Storm
:smile: You filosefy foks can be triksy! Evin the ngineery ones
But this western reader has only so much compassion to go around. It isn't that I don't care enough; it's that I can't care enough. One dead queen allows more focus than the 10,000 bad things that happened yesterday.
For me, this is a sign of one of the major things wrong about the internet. When you and I were growing up, we were further from the news. We heard about what was going on in our area and maybe we heard about what was going on nationally with a little bit of international news. Now, we hear about every bad thing that happened anywhere in the world all day everyday, no matter how trivial. We've lost our perspective about what's really a problem.
Reply to javi2541997 That's a possibility. I have a good friend in Denia, which is where I was living before, and he has an extra bedroom. But we might start off in Baku, Azerbaijan. My wife has contacts there, apparently.
Reply to T Clark It's probably more the latter, but there's a lot of uncertainty and the direction things are going is towards martial law, closed borders, and totalitarianism.*
Reply to Hanover I think I'll end up there within a year or two.
Lots of people are leaving Russia, and not just draftable men or foreigners. My wife's parents can't take it any more and are going to Thailand next week; a female (meaning currently not draftable) psychologist I know is leaving the country on Friday; a friend who works for Sberbank has got everything ready for a quick exit with his family up to Murmansk in case of nuclear war; and the young guy who works in my local vape shop is trying to get out of the country but has no money. That's just a tiny snapshot from my very small social circle.
Thank you. I will join the discussion when I'm old, and retired. I'm currently looking to begin a career in IT.
It is inconsiderate to start a new discussion on a subject when there is already one open. Perhaps you'll learn to be considerate when you grow up too.
Lots of people are leaving Russia, and not just draftable men or foreigners. My wife's parents can't take it any more and are going to Thailand next week; a female (meaning currently not draftable) psychologist I know is leaving the country on Friday, a friend who works for Sberbank has got everything ready for a quick exit with his family up to Murmansk in case of nuclear war, and the young guy who works in my vape shop is trying to get out of the country but has no money. That's just a tiny snapshot from my very small social circle.
I think how difficult things must be for people to leave everything they know on a moment's notice.
Reply to T Clark The "NextDoor" social network app is a good example. People report everything on it from vaguely suspicious to felony crime. It's all local events. There was a study (long time ago) that suggested people who consistently watch local TV news at 6 and 10 think their city is much more dangerous than it in fact is. Social media turbocharges the phenomena.
I've cut back on broadcast media a lot -- got rid of the TV years ago. I've cut back on National Public Radio news too -- not because they talk about crime so much; they have found too many ways of being irritating. The New York Times is my print standby (the "print" being online). The NYT is irritating too.
One of the things that irritates me is when journalists pick up the social justice argot and mix it into every story; so a story on extending sanitary sewers in the suburbs becomes a story about white privilege.
Another problem with the news is that reporters often rely heavily on advocates and advocacy organizations for information. This is the case in reporting on immigration, for instance.
Similarly, after the evening service ushering in a holiday such as Rosh Hashanah, one says either “?ag same’a? (“Happy holiday”) in Hebrew or “Gut yontif” (“Good holiday”) in Yiddish. Yet what does one say when, as has happened this year, the beginning of the holiday is also the beginning of a Sabbath? Just one of the two greetings? Both? And if so, which comes first?
The answer, as many of you already know, is both, with “Shabbat shalom” or “Gut shabes” first, and “?ag same’a?” or “Gut yontif” second. This is in keeping with a fact that Yiddishologist Michael Wex notes in his book “Just Say Nu”: “These greetings are based on a rigid pecking order of holidays, in which Saturday trumps everything except for Yom Kippur.”
Reply to Bitter Crank Hag samaech is the general term for happy holidays and is Hebrew. Gut yontif means good holiday and it's Yiddish, which is why it sounds more German. If Rosh Hashanah (which is today), falls of the Sabbath, you would say good shabbos and good yontif. Since you're clearly an Ashkanazik Jew, you'd say "Shabbos" as opposed to "Shabbat," because you pronounce certain Ts as Ss as I've noted.
I don't know that I agree that Rosh Hashana is a higher holiday than the Sabbath (see, https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/8733). Keeping the Sabbath holy is actually one of the 10 Commandments (although there are actually 613 commandments, and the 10 enumerated aren't any more special as far as I know).
In any event, let us not be literal. Rosh Hashana is a time of new beginnings, being unencumbered by our past, able to make with our lives as we wish. A fresh start.
I was a bit confused earlier today about this whole thing, and I did get some clarification although not entirely. If Rosh Hashana is the beginning of the year, I wondered, then I would expect it to only fall on Sunday, which is the first day of the week. That is, how can the first day of creation ever fall on the sabbath (Saturday) if that was the day of rest?
As I'm to learn, Rosh Hashana falls on the first day of Fall, based upon a lunar calendar and it varies from the annual calendar, which begins in the Winter, so there are actually two new years in the Jewish calendar, but this one is the holy one for some reason. In terms of lining the whole thing up with creation, that's not a thing apparently.
One of the things that irritates me is when journalists pick up the social justice argot and mix it into every story; so a story on extending sanitary sewers in the suburbs becomes a story about white privilege.
How true. Practically everything you see on TV news has a slant. I used to enjoy Shepard Smith on Fox News, but he departed some time ago and I lost track of him about 2015.
I guess the monster is human. It's made out of human body parts.
Well, Trump is made of human body parts, and he definitely qualifies in the monster category, but he is much uglier that Dr Frankies effort. Frankies effort also made more sense when it spoke!
'Yeearrrghhhh, arrrrghhhhhh rrroooaaaawlllll.' which I am sure meant, 'anyone heard of TPF?'
If Doc Frankie was alive today and did what he did, he would be the greatest scientist who ever lived and would be a very rich, YouTube celeb! Dr Frankie was Italian/Swiss so he could probably beat Giorgia Meloni, or did he make her to.
In terms of lining the whole thing up with creation, that's not a thing apparently.
:clap: That's the spirit. I can't help thinking the world would be a happier place, if more people dealt with liturgical problems by simply announcing them not to be a thing.
Rocco RosanoSeptember 27, 2022 at 10:38#7428800 likes
We simply do not know much about the source of creation.
We simply do not know much about the source of creation.
True. Also, we simply do not know anything about the source of creation.
I suppose there is some negative knowledge that we have. We know it didn't come as an Amazon delivery. The evidence is that it got to us ok and wasn't left in a parallel universe with a note to say we were out.
javi2541997September 27, 2022 at 11:14#7428880 likes
About 98,000 Russians have crossed into Kazakhstan in the week since President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of reservists to fight in Ukraine, Kazakh officials said Tuesday,
Reply to T Clark Overall over a quarter million have fled. https://bnn-news.com/international-media-report-more-than-260-000-men-have-fled-mobilisation-in-russia-238846
Once I visited Cypress Key. It's unusual in that it's on the west side of Florida, pretty far north, and it's not very touristy. It's also pretty much a dump, but it's in a a very natural setting. You can access it off a pretty long drive through a marshy area and then over a bridge. They have clam farms there and a big clam festival once a year. They also have hundreds of snowshoe crabs swimming around the mucky shores. You can take a kayak to the smaller uninhabited keys nearby, which is pretty cool. My hotel was on the pier and we fished out our window for the freshest dinner ever.
Would I recommend it? No, not really. Would I go back? No. Why? It's a dump.
https://www.myoldflorida.com/cedar-key.html
ChangelingSeptember 27, 2022 at 16:09#7429210 likes
Is a penis shaped like a chicken called a cock?
Is a piece of land shaped like a vagina, called North or West Varginia? Or is that just down to certain American accents?
javi2541997September 27, 2022 at 16:44#7429250 likes
Is a penis shaped like a chicken called a cock?
Is a piece of land shaped like a vagina, called North or West Varginia? Or is that just down to certain American accents?
People should learn to leave the humor to professionals. There aren't many on the forum. Here's the ranking:
1 - T Clark
2 - Hanover
3 - Bartricks
4 - Hugh G. Rection
5 - Donald Trump Jr.
That's it.
Here's a professional humor tip - Donald Trump Jr. is always funny.
I got shipwrecked on this island and I was crazy lonely until I found this massive vagina. My rescuers forced me to leave, but I still think of her often. I loved her so much.
People should learn to leave the humor to professionals. There aren't many on the forum. Here's the ranking:
1 - T Clark
2 - Hanover
After my last post of me falling in love with a rock formation resembling a vulva (it's a pet peeve of @Jamal to call it a vagina), the pollsters moved me to #1.
I mean think about a 1000 foot man mounting that mountain with a silly grin on his face. That's some funny shit.
universenessSeptember 27, 2022 at 20:17#7429470 likes
Reply to T Clark
:lol: But seriously, no one with 'Clark' as a surname, has ever ranked high in the history of comedy. Clark's work in banks and sell shoes. I have read that some rebel Clarks try to be other things such as engineers and I suppose that is quite funny.
Has your friend Hugh G Rection ever met my pal Phil M. A. Crackin.
EDIT: Did Hugh G Rection not have a much more convincing twin brother, Hugh E. Rection.
You offer me a list of those who can hardly vibrate a chuckle muscle never mind cause it to convulse into an ecstasy of laughter.
I agree with your comment on Donald Trump Jr but that's just 'laughing at the freaks.'
Laughing at Bartricks would be ok if it wasn't for the worry that I think he/she/? really means what he/she/? types.
Maybe it's the 'T' at the start that makes T Clark funny sometimes, Hanover........ Meh!
I am far too humble, as a complete master, to place myself at the top of the comedy league on TPF.
universenessSeptember 27, 2022 at 20:23#7429480 likes
I got shipwrecked on this island and I was crazy lonely until I found this massive vagina. My rescuers forced me to leave, but I still think of her often. I loved her so much.
Here's a picture of big Jock Cox who lived on that island for years until he lost his hair and became a shadow of his former self:
You've misunderstood. The rankings are not based on opinions or preferences. They are actual objective facts established scientifically by theoretical humorists at the University of Delaware Institute for Finding Out Things.
:lol: But seriously, no one with 'Clark' as a surname, has ever ranked high in the history of comedy. Clark's work in banks and sell shoes. I have read that some rebel Clarks try to be other things such as engineers and I suppose that is quite funny.
Has your friend Hugh G Rection ever met my pal Phil M. A. Crackin.
EDIT: Did Hugh G Rection not have a much more convincing twin brother, Hugh E. Rection.
You offer me a list of those who can hardly vibrate a chuckle muscle never mind cause it to convulse into an ecstasy of laughter.
I agree with your comment on Donald Trump Jr but that's just 'laughing at the freaks.'
Laughing at Bartricks would be ok if it wasn't for the worry that I think he/she/? really means what he/she/? types.
Maybe it's the 'T' at the start that makes T Clark funny sometimes, Hanover........ Meh!
I am far too humble, as a complete master, to place myself at the top of the comedy league on TPF.
universenessSeptember 27, 2022 at 20:52#7429590 likes
Reply to Hanover Reply to frank
Perhaps you two have found gods two fav Earth hangouts, when he tried to intelligently design a woman!
Quick phone the evanhellicals!
I wouldn't like to meet one of those moles at night.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 14:59#7431020 likes
Reply to Jamal
Yeah, Arran's ok, not exactly Glasgow night life but ok by island folk standard.
They should try to stick it back on to the peninsular however then perhaps the folks there would stop singing 'mull of Kintyre' as the dirge it is!
You disagree that Arran missed being one of the Hebrides by a couple of miles or that it's unfair.
I've always been interested in the Hebrides. It probably started when I read a bunch of Hamish Macbeth books. Them highland Scots are a hardscrabble bunch. (The islands are considered part of the highlands, aren't they?) My brother-in-law and his family lived on Mull for a few years before they moved to the Falklands in the early 80s. Good timing.
As I see it, if West Loch were a couple of miles longer, the peninsula that separates Arran from the Inner Hebrides would be an island. Then they would both be included. QED.
My favourite Hebridee is Skye, but I haven’t been to them all so what do I know.
Reply to T Clark But Kintyre in reality is a peninsula (a penis-like peninsula, as universeness has pointed out) and it separates the islands of Arran and Bute etc from the others. Hey, I didn’t make the rules.
Arran is sometimes known as Scotland in miniature because the southern half is low hills and the northern half is rocky mountains.
But Kintyre in reality is a peninsula (a penis-like peninsula, as universeness has pointed out) and it separates the islands of Arran and Bute etc from the others. Hey, I didn’t make the rules.
Alas, tis true.
Rocco RosanoSeptember 28, 2022 at 17:57#7431410 likes
The Shoutbox
et al,
"Creation" is one of those terms that actually requires imagination to have any meaning.
Every product manufactured on Earth comes from raw materials out of the Earth. And the materials that make up the Earth came from the stars. And from that point on, regressive comprehension becomes a matter of probability in particle physics. A Hydrogen Atom has one electron. From that moment, the electron is not a particle (but rather a wave smeared around the atom) in no particular place until you detect it. We know [AKA Pretty Sure (high probability)] that there are various subatomic particles (Quarks, Leptons, Bosons) based on what we detected from collider tests, that came into existence with the surge of energy in what we call the Big Bang. Any talk of multiple universes or parallel universes is just that - talk (albeit interesting talk). We do not have any evidence to that effect.
The US Embassy in Moscow, Russia, issued a security alert for US citizens that read:
[i]“Security Alert for U.S. Citizens in Russia U.S. Embassy Moscow, Russia (September 27, 2022) ”
“Event: On September 21, the Russian government began a mobilization of its citizens to the armed forces in support of its invasion of Ukraine.”
“Russia may refuse to acknowledge dual nationals’ U.S. citizenship, deny their access to U.S. consular assistance, prevent their departure from Russia, and conscript dual nationals for military service. ”
“Commercial flight options are extremely limited at present and are often unavailable on short notice. Overland routes by car and bus are still open.”
“If you wish to depart Russia, you should make independent arrangements as soon as possible. The U.S. Embassy has severe limitations on its ability to assist U.S. citizens, and conditions, including transportation options, may suddenly become even more limited.”
“U.S. citizens should not travel to Russia and those residing or travelling in Russia should depart Russia immediately while limited commercial travel options remain.”
“The Department of State provides information on commercial travel on the Information for U.S. Citizens in Russia – Travel Options Out of Russia page on travel.state.gov. ”
“This site also provides information on requirements for entering neighboring countries, procedures for travel on expired U.S. passports in some circumstances, and visa requirements for families with American and Russian citizen family members.”
“We remind U.S. citizens that the right to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression are not guaranteed in Russia.”
“Avoid all political or social protests and do not photograph security personnel at these events. Russian authorities have arrested U.S. citizens who have participated in demonstrations.”[/i]
Also:
[i]On Tuesday, September 27, the Bulgarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs advised all of its citizens to urgently leave the territory of Russia.
They were urged to use all possible means of movement in connection with the current complicated travel situation in the country.[/i]
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 20:52#7431640 likes
As a whisky lover, I have some attraction to T Clarks suggestion. I personally think the best whisky made on Arran can hardly compete with the average whisky made in the inner Hebridean islands such as Islay or Sky. I also prefer the whisky's from Campbeltown (capital of Kintyre) compared to Arran.
If Arran was pushed back onto Kintyre and an enormous kilt was built over the whole thing, then I think we would get a lot more female tourism on the west coast, (true Scotsman finally confirmed.) BUT if Arran was part of the Inner Hebrides, then the Islay influence alone could improve their whisky making skills no end. Then, Arran folk wouldn't need to rely on chasing sheep to knit so many Arran cardigans and jumpers to sell to mainlanders so they can feed themselves in the winter when times are hard.
The islands are considered part of the highlands, aren't they?
— T Clark
Most of them sometimes.
Hah! Try suggesting to an Orcadian or a Shetlander that they are Scottish. Most of them want to join with the Viking Scandies!
Have you ever been to an 'Up hally aa' festival in the Shetlands:
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 21:01#7431670 likes
The US Embassy in Moscow, Russia, issued a security alert for US citizens
Scary times! I hope @Jamal's next post on TPF is sent on his journey away from Russia.
Things are either going to get much, much worse for everyone or a little better over the next week or so.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 21:07#7431710 likes
Hey you guys! Stop stealing our names for stuff and ...... and ...... places man! That's just buuuuuullllllll SHIT! Choose your own f****** names, aint you got no originalities left?
Hah! Try suggesting to an Orcadian or a Shetlander that they are Scottish. Most of them want to join with the Viking Scandies!
Have you ever been to an 'Up hally aa' festival in the Shetlands:
When I was a wee lad (that means "little kid" in Scottish), I had a Shetland Sheepdog. His name was Skip. He use to visit his mum (that's what he called her, being British) in the Shetland Islands every couple of years. I think that's where he went. Maybe he just wandered the neighborhood. Dogs use to do that in days of old. Now we have to keep them in a fence or the neighbors get pissed off.
Hey you guys! Stop stealing our names for stuff and ...... and ...... places man! That's just buuuuuullllllll SHIT! Choose your own f****** names, aint you got no originalities left?
There's a really good chance that the name was provided by some Scottish settlers, so you got no one to blame but yourself.
As a whisky lover, I have some attraction to T Clarks suggestion. I personally think the best whisky made on Arran can hardly compete with the average whisky made in the inner Hebridean islands such as Islay or Sky.
Give them a chance. The distillery's only been there since 1995.
Scary times! I hope Jamal's next post on TPF is sent on his journey away from Russia.
Flight to Baku booked.
According to Clarky's post above, the US security alert seems to be focused on dual nationals, but it does seem to be urging all US citizens to leave. The UK government is still just telling me I should leave if I don't have to be here. I don't know what's up with the Bulgarians.
There's a really good chance that the name was provided by some Scottish settlers, so you got no one to blame but yourself.
Stop makin excuses man! All American place (Amerigo Vespucci, oh come on!) names should legally have to be approved by the native peoples who managed to survive. Don't go with those early settlers from Scotland and Ireland, they were all wacked out on scooby snacks and bad whisky. The native names are the coolest by far, like Wyoming, Dakota, Idaho, etc 'New York', 'New England', 'America', time to change those boring names.
Still, I suppose it could have been worse, You could be living in Columbusland.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 21:35#7431830 likes
Give them a chance. The distillery's only been there since 1995.
Yeah but: "Early in the 19th century there were more than 50 whisky distilleries on Arran, most of them illegal and carefully hidden from the eyes of the taxmen. The malt was acclaimed at the time as the best in Scotland, only rivalled by those from the ‘Glen of Livet’."
So, they have a lot of history with the Uisce beatha, 1995 means they should at least have an excellent 18-year-old single malt. I will keep trying any new batch that comes my way however. C'mon Arran!
An early flight I hope, they could close the borders any day now, according to the news channels here.
If that's what they're saying then I hope it's just exaggeration. The news I've seen is that they might soon close the borders to men who are eligible for the draft, which they haven't done yet; I'll still be able to leave in that case.
The news I've seen is that they might soon close the borders to men who are eligible for the draft, which they haven't done yet; I'll still be able to leave in that case.
Ah, that's ok then. That IS what they are reporting here, sorry, I should have been more accurate.
The way things are just now, if you could leave the planet for a while right now, I think many would chose to do so. I always thought the cuban missile crisis was the closest we got to M.A.D but..........
Maybe the human race has to hang right over the precipice before we actually unite and find a better way. How many have to die horribly first? I think we will get there but the cost! The terrible cost! :broken:
The way things are just now, if you could leave the planet for a while right now, I think many would chose to do so. I always thought the cuban missile crisis was the closest we got to M.A.D but..........
Maybe the human race has to hang right over the precipice before we actually unite and find a better way. How many have to die horribly first? I think we will get there but the cost! The terrible cost!
A new life awaits you in the off-world colonies. A chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 22:22#7432040 likes
You may not know that Columbus Day (October 10, 2022) has become a contested event in the US. Some of the contestants are actually native people from Ronkonkoma, NY or Watonwan, MN, but most are the descendants of European oppressors who get a .005% discount on their guilt feelings by opposing an event which Italian Americans (and many non-Italians are very proud of and happy about.
In fourteen hundred ninety-two
Columbus sailed the ocean blue,
We all learned this ditty in the little red school house.
What the kiddies are evidently supposed to be learning nowadays is the history and sin of European imperialistic, genocidal colonialism (which is also racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, etcist).
What can we say?
"Well, Liebe Kinder, this is what happens when adventurous civilized kings, merchants, and explorers decide to explore the world. They discover less advanced civilizations that happened to be in the way of their royal road to world rule. Columbus was a brave explorer. It isn't his fault that the Western Hemisphere and its millions hadn't made themselves known to the rest of the world. For Columbus, it was discovery.
"It was a discovery for the indigenous people as well. Perhaps not as happy a discovery as it was for Columbus but still something new and different: big ships; horses; Europeans; gun powder; kaboom. Everyone was amazed, all round.
"Spain, Portugal, England, and France immediately saw that the New World (it was new to them) had not found its highest and best use. There were no great fields, no valuable mines, no fine roads, no great houses, spacious ports, and so on. It was all untapped potential: soil, forests, minerals, and lots of game, fish, and fur-bearing creatures.
"So what they did was laid claim to as much of the Western Hemisphere as they could get their hands on and keep. Perfectly sensible.
"America the Beautiful, Brazil the Great, Mexico the Blasé, Canada the bland, Argentina the Apex--forget all that. On Columbus Day we are now supposed to rip our T-shirts and dump ashes on our heads in shame for having been the winners in the very unsentimental game of the nations.
Up with Columbus Day. And up with Ronkonkoma and Dakota, the Illini(ois) and Chief Keokuk.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 22:30#7432070 likes
The American Embassy warned Americans to get out while they still could. Once there are no flights / trains / buses out, and no open exit stations, then there won't be much that can be done to help you. Formerly rich, slim, tall, literary, urban Americans trapped in Russia will be changed overnight into short, stocky inarticulate peasants who will do what they're told OR ELSE.
Reply to universeness Sorry to be a spoilsport but I’m no good at that rivalry banter. I like both cities and feel quite invigorated by Glasgow’s friendly atmosphere and endemic violence.
Sorry to be a spoilsport but I’m no good at that rivalry banter. I like both cities and feel quite invigorated by Glasgow’s friendly atmosphere and endemic violence.
Plus people from Glasgow get to call themselves Glaswegians.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 22:59#7432160 likes
Reply to Bitter Crank
It was put best by whoever said:
"When they came, we had the land and they had their god. Soon after, they had our land and we had their god."
Columbus was an opportunist in search of wealth and status. Quoting Bitter Crank
On Columbus day, I will ponder the holocaust perpetrated against all native peoples and will hope that we don't suffer the same fate by any visiting aliens in the future.
Perhaps all future Americans will make sure all surviving native peoples are treated very well and each future Columbus day will be used to find ways to restore and celebrate as much indigenous culture as is possible, alongside American culture.
Sorry to be a spoilsport but I’m no good at that rivalry banter. I like both cities and feel quite invigorated by Glasgow’s friendly atmosphere and endemic violence.
Perhaps citizens of the UK are not the ones who should be giving lectures on the morals of mistreating indigenous people.
Best you ask citizens of the UK. I am Scottish and If I was lecturing, I would be in a university in front of students. I type from a position of not personally having mistreated any indigenous people, so try not to flap around with meaningless generalities that try to dilute the crimes of one group by comparing with the 'just as bad' crimes of another group. Such responses in no way reduce the validity of the statements I have posted so far regarding the holocaust of the native peoples of America.
Scotland is currently in Britain and the UK and it was intimately involved in the project of Empire, in its administration and its battles and in benefiting from its spoils.
The Scots par excellence were to the fore in the exploitation of the new imperial bounty. It is noted that the success in the Empire became the solid political foundation of the Anglo-Scottish union by the later eighteenth century, but it was also a crucial source of capital.
Devine, T.M. (ed.), 'The Spoils of Empire', in Tom Devine (ed.), Scotland and the Union 1707-2007
Best you ask citizens of the UK. I am Scottish and If I was lecturing,
Scots are citizens of the UK and were citizens of Great Britain during the empire. Scots emigrated to the new world, Australia, India, and all the other places the British Empire gobbled up. Scots participated in all the various genocides and all the various wars.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 23:35#7432270 likes
Scotland is currently in Britain and the UK and it was intimately involved in the project of Empire, in its administration and its battles and in benefiting from its spoils.
I am a Scot that advocates against that current state of affairs and will continue to do so. I did not take part in any of the events you mention, and I also believe that Scotland's role in past horrors must be fully admitted, and all efforts must be made to help those peoples abroad and at home who we helped abuse in the past. I am innocent of those crimes but I am not innocent of the legacy and would actively participate in any future atonement and support any feasible call for reparation.
universenessSeptember 28, 2022 at 23:36#7432280 likes
Scots are citizens of the UK and were citizens of Great Britain during the empire. Scots emigrated to the new world, Australia, India, and all the other places the British Empire gobbled up. Scots participated in all the various genocides and all the various wars.
I know, but I didn't and I type from that perspective.
Scots are citizens of the UK and were citizens of Great Britain during the empire.
I reject the term united kingdom and I reject the term 'Britain.' The term 'Great' Britain is an embarassing joke to me. I have absolutely no commonality with the concept of 'British' it means absolutely nothing to me and it never has been any part of my personal identity. I dont give a damn about what any legal document identifies me as. I am Scottish, European, Earthling, Human but not British!
As for Kingdom, Hah! He's no King of mine just like his mother was no Queen of mine.
There is no religious angle to that rejection. I reject all monarchy and aristocracy.
the blood of trafficked and enslaved African people, their children and their children’s children is built into the very bones of this city
Given this, and given also your strong Glaswegian identity, can it be an adequate response to say “it wasn’t me!”?
Maybe it can, I’m not sure.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 00:06#7432340 likes
Reply to Jamal
I like to think that I would have fought and killed Scots who were involved in the slave trade.
I think there is no harm in trying to see ourselves in honourable ways but I also always take note of:
O wad some power the gift tae gie us
Tae see oorsels as ithers see us.
So who knows what I would have done if I had lived in those times.
Given this, and given also your strong Glaswegian identity, can it be an adequate response to say “it wasn’t me!”
I can only type for myself. I do not feel any personal responsibility, but I feel very ashamed of parts of Scots history. I am also astounded at Scotland's contribution to science, politics, philosophy etc considering our size and population and the fact that we had to deal with a very powerful acrimonious neighbour.
Our involvement in the slave trade was intense and we must make all the details of our involvement fully available to all. It should be turned into historical documentaries for all Scots to learn about.
Names, places, events, dates, everything that's known and then the plunder in our museums etc should be returned and our government must do all they can within our economy to make what amends we can to those countries in Africa and places like India etc that we helped pillage.
Even if it takes hundreds of years, we MUST try to repair some of the damage we did or else our phenomenal achievements will be forever soiled.
The Americans need to do the same as do most other European countries imo.
Reply to universeness All right, I’ll stop badgering you now. You’ve made a case, and without blaming everything on the English. :up:
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 00:20#7432370 likes
Reply to Jamal
I have no hatred towards the English (apart from historically), they have to deal with an even more horrific world stage legacy.
I enjoy being challenged on my views so please keep doing so if you see where I should be and need to be challenged. If I cannot defend my viewpoints then I cannot and will not sustain them, I will change a viewpoint if it is proven to be unfounded or even just hanging from a very shoogly peg.
The concept of punishment for the sins of our fathers is an unfortunate relic of our primitive past.
In a generalized way I think we can admit we inherit the consequences of the bad decisions and good decisions of our ancestors, but to describe those consequences as inherited sin and guilt presents an unjust justice system, especially when we attempt to increase the level of guilt based upon the closeness of our genetic coding to the original sinner.
This is to simply say that because grandpa Hanover was a cattle rustler says nothing more of present day Hanover than any other present day person.
Reply to Jamal That I've unintentionally benefitted from another's crime doesn't increase my guilt because guilt is based on intent.
The remedy to the victim would include return of the ill gotten gains, but victims, like sinners with guilt, don't inherit their victimization from their parents either.
This isn't to turn a blind eye to remedial justice if there exists someone disadvantaged today by past injustices, but it is to eliminate any suggestion that today's beneficiaries of yesterday's injustice are immoral.
So, to take my current house and give it the victim's grandson on the basis of my inherited guilt would simply create a new victim in place of an old one and it would advance an unjust justice system.
Whatever remedy we choose to rectify current injustice caused by past injustice needs to be focused on that pragmatic concern, without resort to declaring a purely innocent person guilty of something his grandfather did.
More on ancestral guilt: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_sin
On Columbus day, I will ponder the holocaust perpetrated against all native peoples and will hope that we don't suffer the same fate by any visiting aliens in the future.
So, you sit in judgement of modern Americans and deny your own complicity. There's a name for that. First letter - H. Nine letters. Ok, if that makes you feel all good about yourself.
The remedy to the victim would include return of the ill gotten gains, but victims, like sinners with guilt, don't inherit their victimization from their parents either.
This isn't to turn a blind eye to remedial justice if there exists someone disadvantaged today by past injustices, but it is to eliminate any suggestion that today's beneficiaries of yesterday's injustice are immoral.
This all well and good, as long as we can justly claim that we gain no ongoing benefit from yesterday's injustice. I think that's the heart of the matter. The Supreme Court just gave half of Oklahoma back to the American Indians because it was taken from them in violation of a legally ratified treaty. Something similar happened in Massachusetts and all they gave the tribes was the right to open some casinos. I guess for tribes with no treaties it's tough luck.
And that doesn't take into account black Americans.
What if you now live in the house that grandpa Hanover bought with his ill-gotten gains?
What if you own property and art that was taken from Jews back in 1940? Perfectly legal back then and it was someone else who took the stuff and the original owners are dead anyway...
What if you own property and art that was taken from Jews back in 1940? Perfectly legal back then and it was someone else who took the stuff and the original owners are dead anyway...
More and more you see claims from countries that want the return of heritage and artistic items which were taken centuries ago by imperialist nations.
Tom StormSeptember 29, 2022 at 01:55#7432570 likes
Reply to T Clark For sure. Many art and antiquity collections are essentially stolen property with cultural significance for the people from whom they were taken. My Aboriginal friends here have worked hard to bring back significant items and human remains for their ancestors from overseas, from displays in private collections.
I don't have an answer to where one draws the line all of these matters.
Perhaps all future Americans will make sure all surviving native peoples are treated very well
Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but I wouldn't count on it.
Before the British civilized the Scots they were barely past the barbarian stage of development, occasionally skinning captives alive. just ask Hugh de Cressingham.
I type from a position of not personally having mistreated any indigenous people, so try not to flap around with meaningless generalities that try to dilute the crimes of one group by comparing with the 'just as bad' crimes of another group.
I also type from a position of not personally having mistreated any indigenous people. Most living Americans can say that. That isn't to say Native Americans are being treated splendidly, but much of the grievous damage that was done to their persons and their culture was carried out by European and American settlers long deceased. And yes indeed, it was American policy to get rid of the Indians so that we (Americans and European settlers) could have their land.
In the long big picture of the species, population movement, population replacement, conquest, colonization, and so on are de regueur. We civilized people don't do those things anymore, of course (no?) but it is worthwhile to remember that "civilized" is not a terribly reliable or enduring cultural trait.
If (and when) it becomes very inconvenient to maintain the civilized shell, niceties will be dispensed with.
I don't approve of our inchoate or brazen barbarity, but let us not pretend that we are now so refined that we just couldn't behave badly ever again!
That seems like a pretty dubious claim--in the same way that the Russian sponsored and administered referendum in eastern parts of Ukraine are "legal". The Nazis did what they wanted with their own "legal" code, but without total victory they couldn't annul the laws of conquered nations or international law. Furthermore, they lost the war, and in losing the war lost the opportunity to make their view of "legal" stick.
Hitler found American policy toward indigenous people quite inspiring; what was not to like about genocide and concentration camps/reservations.
I don't know what the legal status (in European terms) was of native people from 1620 onward. Apparently the US Government recognized the legitimacy of native claims because treaties were concluded granting tribes formal legal status. That didn't stop us from ignoring the treaties before the ink was dry, and I don't think anyone was prosecuted for killing Indians until when -- the 20th century?
Tom StormSeptember 29, 2022 at 04:02#7432770 likes
Reply to Bitter Crank I was being ironic. Hitler and ‘perfectly legal’ mean human rights violations were encouraged towards certain minorities by the state.
Here in Spain, we celebrate Columbus day not because the supposed "holocaust" but the proud of Spanish nation and language. Presidents from Latin America come to the ceremony, except if they are communist. To be honest, I think it is insulting giving the concept of "genocide" on 1492 historical feat in a serious website like this one.
I recommend you to stop spreading the so called "Black legend" on the history of my country, please.
Examples:
The old President of Chile and the King of Spain cheering about Columbus day. We guess the current president would not come this year because he is communist.
NY city. A parade cheering with the different flags from the Hispanic world.
Perú... literally with the flag of the Spanish empire.
I don't have an answer to where one draws the line all of these matters.
I once read an article written by a conservative columnist in the Boston Globe, a strong supporter of Israel. He claimed that God's judgement in Genesis, written 3,500 years ago, was adequate justification for the Jewish people's claim to Palestine.
Tom StormSeptember 29, 2022 at 05:22#7432850 likes
Reply to T Clark Odd. There are much better justifications for Israel's presence in philistine territory than Genesis. Maybe the Globe columnist hadn't read Exodus yet.
So, you sit in judgement of modern Americans and deny your own complicity.
Only those Americans that don't accept the same 'national legacy of responsibility,' that I concur with.
I am not personally responsible because I have not abused any native peoples. You seem to be struggling to understand that. The legacy of responsibility I am typing about was exemplified by @Jamal's line, Quoting Jamal
What if you now live in the house that grandpa Hanover bought with his ill-gotten gains?
Many of the buildings in Glasgow and its infrastructure, for example, merchant city etc was built on the proceeds of slavery. The so called 'tobacco' lords of Glasgow were heavily involved in abusing native peoples. I have never been involved in the slave trade and I have never been a tobacco lord.
This is not about personal nationality, it's about national historical legacy.
There's a name for that. First letter - H. Nine letters. Ok, if that makes you feel all good about yourself.
This would mean something to me if it was based on rational argument, but so far, I have found your analysis of my position and viewpoint on this topic, irrational.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 09:15#7433150 likes
Here in Spain, we celebrate Columbus day not because the supposed "holocaust" but the proud of Spanish nation and language. Presidents from Latin America come to the ceremony, except if they are communist. To be honest, I think it is insulting giving the concept of "genocide" on 1492 historical feat in a serious website like this one.
I recommend you to stop spreading the so called "Black legend" on the history of my country, please.
Columbus is in reality a footnote. He was interested in obtaining status and wealth for himself and his family. He is merely a character involved at the beginning of the holocaust perpetrated on native peoples globally. Spain has much more to answer for in regards to much more historically guilty characters such as Pizarro, Cortes and the conquistadors. Do you celebrate a Pizarro day or a Cortes day?
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 09:20#7433160 likes
Before the British civilized the Scots they were barely past the barbarian stage of development, occasionally skinning captives alive. just ask Hugh de Cressingham.
You show your ignorance of the history of these islands. If you demonstrated accurate historical knowledge of the various peoples that have held power in these islands, then I would engage you in an exchange on the topic but your quote above places you in the category of 'ignorant' on your knowledge of the topic.
javi2541997September 29, 2022 at 09:26#7433180 likes
Spain has much more to answer for in regards to much more historically guilty characters such as Pizarro, Cortes and the conquistadors. Do you celebrate a Pizarro day or a Cortes day?
Yes, we do. Because they are historical figures of my country. I don't understand when you say "Spain has much to answer for". Should we the Spaniards look for apologies about the Muslim empire when they were in the Peninsula? The Roman Empire too?
So, to take my current house and give it the victim's grandson on the basis of my inherited guilt would simply create a new victim in place of an old one and it would advance an unjust justice system
I am not suggesting that the buildings in Glasgow built on the proceeds of human slavery, or built on the profits of the use and abuse of the indigenous labour forces used by the tobacco lords of Glasgow, should be given to the nations where these native peoples come from. I am suggesting that Scotland should assist such nations in anyway they can, to help their people and country develop and flourish. That is the kind of reparation I am typing about. Apology, recognition, military, economic, scientific, medical and technical support. I am not suggesting you give your house to the families of the ancestor's you grandfather abused. We should return any historical items we have in our museums that we plundered or stole from other nations. The French hold historical books/documents which should be returned to Scotland. The elgin marbles should be returned to Greece, all the Egyptian stuff that was stolen by the French and British etc should be returned, etc, etc.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 09:38#7433200 likes
Perhaps I would agree if those "purely innocent" people recognized and acknowledged history and its consequences.
It seems to me that you agree with my viewpoints on this issue more than you disagree but you have some bizarre national pride piffle going on in your head between 'Scottishness' and 'Americanness.'
Try to understand that my chosen handle for this site was 'universeness,' not 'anally retentive proud Scotsman.'
You show your ignorance of the history of these islands. If you demonstrated accurate historical knowledge of the various peoples that have held power in these islands, then I would engage you in an exchange on the topic but your quote above places you in the category of 'ignorant' on your knowledge of the topic
I think BC was winding you up. At least I hope so. He has some outrageous opinions but that’s going too far.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 09:55#7433230 likes
Yes, we do. Because they are historical figures of my country. I don't understand when you say "Spain has much to answer for". Should we the Spaniards look for apologies about the Muslim empire when they were in the Peninsula? The Roman Empire too?
The moors and the Iberian Christian kingdoms were technically equal adversaries, there is historical balance there. The Romans were also equal adversaries but did have some technical advantages that they used to full effect. Such examples do not compare to using guns against bows, arrows and spears etc. If your target people have no chance at defending themselves against your technology, then you deserve the accusation of atrocity, holocaust, ethnic cleansing, cultural slaughter etc.
Is the concept of a fair honourable fight not one of your bushido tenets?
If your samurai had machine guns and used them to defeat all peoples around them who were armed with swords only, would you still revere them as you do?
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 09:58#7433240 likes
Reply to Jamal
I am sure you know Mr Bitter better than I do. He can always clarify if he wants to.
I have no problem with windups but if they become indistinguishable from your real opinions then you risk the 'boy who cried wolf too many times,' situation.
The moors and the Iberian Christian kingdoms were technically equal adversaries, there is historical balance there. The Romans were also equal adversaries but did have some technical advantages that they used to full effect.
The Iberian population were not Christian. They were pagan. I disagree about if they would be balanced equally... Romans and Moors were stronger and that's why they conquered the Peninsula. Simple. The strongest eat the weakest.
If your target people have no chance at defending themselves against your technology, then you deserve the accusation of atrocity, holocaust, ethnic cleansing, cultural slaughter etc.
Hmmm... look I will not keep in this discussion because I think you lack of historical facts and proofs.
The Iberian population were not Christian. They were pagan.
Initially yes, based on: The history of Spain dates to the Antiquity when the pre-Roman peoples of the Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula made contact with the Greeks and Phoenicians and the first writing systems known as Paleohispanic scripts were developed. During Classical Antiquity, the peninsula was the site of multiple successive colonizations of Greeks, Carthaginians, and Romans. Native peoples of the peninsula, such as the Tartessos people, intermingled with the colonizers to create a uniquely Iberian culture. The Romans referred to the entire Peninsula as Hispania, from where the modern name of Spain originates.
Then we get to: the Umayyad conquest of Hispania began in 711 and marked the introduction of Islam to the Iberian Peninsula. The region became known as Al-Andalus, and excepting for the small Kingdom of Asturias, a CHRISTIAN rump state in the north of Iberia
and then we get to:
[b]Christians from the north gradually expanded their control over Iberia, a period known as the Reconquista. As they expanded southward, a number of Christian kingdoms were formed, including the Kingdom of Navarre (a Basque kingdom centered on the city of Pamplona), the Kingdom of León (in the northwest, originally an offshoot of, and later supplanting, the Kingdom of Asturias), the Kingdom of Castile (in central Iberia), and the Kingdom of Aragon (in Catalonia and surrounding areas of Eastern Iberia). The history of these kingdoms and other are intertwined and they eventually consolidated into two roughly equivalent polities, the Crown of Castile and the Crown of Aragon, roughly occupying the central and eastern thirds of the Iberian Peninsula respectively. During this period, the southwestern portion of the Peninsula developed into the Kingdom of Portugal, and developed its own distinct national identity separate from that of Spain.
The early modern period is generally dated from the union of the Crowns of Castile and Aragon under the Catholic Monarchs, Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon in 1469. This marked what is historiographically considered the foundation of unified Spain, although technically Castile and Aragon continued to maintain independent institutions for several centuries.[/b]
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 10:31#7433300 likes
People who offer poor excuses for atrocious historical behaviour by the historical Spanish nation. :roll:
Britain was their greatest enemy at times but only in the sense of one gangster power base at war with another one. The controlling monarchies and aristocracies of Spain, Britain, France etc were all intermarried mafioso families, fighting over wealth, power and influence on the world stage. They used their populations of poor people as their war fodder. We need to see way past the BS historical pageantry and religious fervour BS such as the divine right of kings and see through to the bunch of vile gangsters these abominable historical authorities were.
javi2541997September 29, 2022 at 10:52#7433320 likes
During Classical Antiquity, the peninsula was the site of multiple successive colonizations of Greeks, Carthaginians, and Romans. Native peoples of the peninsula, such as the Tartessos people, intermingled with the colonizers to create a uniquely Iberian culture. The Romans referred to the entire Peninsula as Hispania, from where the modern name of Spain originates.
Poor Tartessos! :cry: colonizers as Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, Moors, etc... are guilty for destroying the native culture! Should I ask apologies to Italy or Greece? Nah... I rather crying out in "life sucks" thread :rofl:
The controlling monarchies and aristocracies of Spain, Britain, France etc were all intermarried mafioso families, fighting over wealth, power and influence on the world stage
But the citizens of those monarchies are not guilty of anything... I will not apologise for being Spaniard.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 11:20#7433370 likes
But the citizens of those monarchies are not guilty of anything... I will not apologise for being Spaniard.
I did not suggest YOU should personally apologise, nor did I suggest that I should personally apologise for being born Scottish. I would apologise culturally or historically as an innocent 'representative' of my nation's historicity, but I would also fervently push Scotland's phenomenal contributions to world science, politics, philosophy etc. I am sure you would gladly do the same for Spain's positive contribution to the world.
This is about nationhood apology based on historical atrocities committed under national identity.
Any official apologies given would be delivered by those in power at the time. The apologies would be cultural and would be based on a wish to unite our race and demonstrate a wish to enhance and nurture a benevolent global humanism. Historical hatred and bitterness is a cancer that will always fester if it is simply ignored. Admitting there is a problem is the first step to finding a solution.
Here is Nicola Sturgeon apologising for historical atrocities:
Poor Tartessos! :cry: colonizers as Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, Moors, etc... are guilty for destroying the native culture! Should I ask apologies to Italy or Greece? Nah... I rather crying out in "life sucks" thread :rofl:
I am sure there are many Spanish families alive today that can trace their ancestry back to tribes like the Tartessos. Many Scots are very proud, when they can trace their origins back to a clan or/and earlier Scottish tribes such as the Picts. The Picts were not in fact wiped out, as is sometimes suggested, they united with the Gaels and took the name Scoti. The name of Scotland is derived from the Latin Scoti, the term applied to Gaels. The union was based on marriages and the tradition at the time was to follow the matriarchal line for names. A Picti leader marries a Gaelic princess, and the merged groups take up the matriarchal name line 'Scoti.'
Edit: Actually, there are very few records available from the days of the Picts or the Tartessos, so very few people would be able to trace their ancestry back as far as that. But from a genetic hereditary standpoint, they are still with us. So probably are hominid species such as the neandertals!
javi2541997September 29, 2022 at 12:09#7433490 likes
but I would also fervently push Scotland's phenomenal contributions to world science, politics, philosophy etc. I am sure you would gladly do the same for Spain's positive contribution to the world.
There are more positive contributions made than negative acts or destructions. It is not worthy to only see the negative spectrum of each nation. It doesn't seem to be a useful path to take part of.
We cannot see the past with the eyes of modern times. What you call atrocity now it was "military strategy" back in the day. For example: Roman Empire allowed to teenagers (between 12 and 14 years old) to get married with old men or women. In nowadays, you would say that's paedophilia right?
I am sure there are many Spanish families alive today that can trace their ancestry back to tribes like the Tartessos
The Basques are a good example. They share a similar heritage to Scottish and Irishmen.
Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza in Genes, Peoples, and Languages [University of California Press, 2000]:...The Basques once inhabited a much larger territory than today... During the last Paleolothic period the Basque region extended over almost the entire area where ancient cave paintings have been found. There are some cues [sic, "clues"?] that Basque descends from a language spoken 35,000 to 40,000 years ago, during the first occupation of France by modern humans... The artists of these caves would have spoken a language of the first, preagricultural Europeans, from which modern Basque is derived. [pp.120-121]
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 12:26#7433500 likes
It is not worthy to only see the negative spectrum of each nation. It doesn't seem to be a useful path to take part of.
I have typed about the positive and negative historical record of Scotland, so in what way do I 'only see the negative spectrum of each nation'? Do I have to list all my positive impressions of the historical Spain or the historical America to better balance the equation for you?
We cannot see the past with the eyes of modern times. What you call atrocity now it was "military strategy" back in the day. For example: Roman Empire allowed to teenagers (between 12 and 14 years old) to get married with old men or women. In nowadays, you would say that's paedophilia right?
Those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them! Yes old men marrying young children is paedophilia. If a terrorist blows up children attending a music concert, would you call that military strategy? If roman soldiers slaughter captives, would you excuse that with the label 'military strategy'? How much of a protective umbrella do you wish this 'military strategy,' term to have against accusations of atrocity? Was it a good defence at the Nuremberg trials?
Perhaps I would agree if those "purely innocent" people recognized and acknowledged history and its consequences.
Justice would require that we all have a reasonable means for achievement based upon individual merit as unencumbered by chance benefits as reasonably possible (with an emphasis on "reasonable"), but the concept of absolute equality at birth isn't possible or I think even preferable.
You have benefits based upon your race, no doubt, but your benefits go far beyond that. That you were born in the US, especially in a very educated and progressive state offers you significant advantage. That you were born to certain parents, that your genetics are what they are, that you were born in peacetime, that you and your community had resources for your advancement, etc etc all led you to the level of success you have. None of those things were based upon a single decision you made.
The best I think we can wish to achieve is to create a system where success can come to those who make good decisions, with the obvious understanding that Rockefellers will see greater success than Joneses and Smiths even when the two make the same decisions.
What I don't think will lead to greater societal successes and happiness is the constant reminder that some have unfair advantages over others and that we need to constantly be redistributing resources to account for that. And I realize that I do come from a place of privilege here, but I'm not a Senator's son either, which means that I think we have to accept the world is unfair and it will be regardless of how we try to sledge hammer fairness upon it. I am less concerned that a Smith cannot live like a Rockefeller than I am that a Smith must live like a pauper.
I once read an article written by a conservative columnist in the Boston Globe, a strong supporter of Israel. He claimed that God's judgement in Genesis, written 3,500 years ago, was adequate justification for the Jewish people's claim to Palestine.
The right to possess land can only be defined within a fixed system of agreed upon laws, but I don't know how you can justify the right to possess land outside that system.
For example, I can say I properly have the right to possess my house because I went through the deed process and I acquired it pursuant to law, but that's as far as I can go.
That is, I can't say I some inherent right to possess my land based upon the Revolutionary War resulting in the seizure of British territory that had been previously declared a colony by a decree of the King because someone would rightfully ask why such a process is an inherently valid method for acquiring land. I also don't see why a Cherokee Indian who challenges the European method of land acquisition has the right to come and demand my house just because his great great grandfather touched that piece of land before mine did. I also don't know what sort of pre-Cherokee peoples occupied my land before that, and I don't believe that some other vanquished peoples whose descendants can be found in a remote South American village have the right to be re-established in my living room.
The point being that the "right" of a people to occupy land (outside a fixed legal system) isn't answerable, and any argument that a certain people don't have that right and ought be removed in favor of the just owners is suspect.
It is for that reason that your Indian treaty example makes sense here. The US Courts haven't declared that the Native Americans have an inherent right to the land based upon a natural law right to possess ancestral lands, but they're just saying that land was taken in violation of the actual written and agreed upon law within its borders and the deeding process wasn't properly followed.
javi2541997September 29, 2022 at 13:04#7433600 likes
Yeah, good ol Basques. Should they get their independence along with the Catalonians?
Plot twist: Basques no longer want to get the independence of Spain. They want to be part of the state and they feel Spanish more than ever.
If you do not trust me, look this statistics:
40 % of the population of Basque feel Spanish and Basque. Only a 19 % feels "only basque" and a 41 % of the population are against independence. El apoyo a la independencia en el País Vasco, en mínimos históricos
Reply to Hanover
If a person is proud to be an American, it's probably because of historic decisions that play out in the present. Being ashamed of being American can be the same thing. It's not due to taking responsibility for past crimes, it's that part of one's identity is a country that's both genius and beast.
It's ok to be ashamed in spite of being personally innocent. It's part of the country's redemption? A reason to be humble? A reason to be committed to the ways things have changed? Especially when there's still a lot of racism, as in the UK and the US.
If a person is proud to be an American, it's probably because of historic decisions that play out in the present. Being ashamed of being American can be the same thing. It's not due to taking responsibility for past crimes, it's that part of one's identity is a country that's both genius and beast.
It's ok to be ashamed in spite of being personally innocent. It's part of the country's redemption? A reason to be humble? A reason to be committed to the ways things have changed? Especially when there's still a lot of racism, as in the UK and the US.
I guess the psychology of a person can play out however it might peculiar to the person, so there might be a person whose patriotic pride was rooted in the naive belief that the original founders were morally perfect only to now learn they were not and they therefore now feel shame.
Or, as would the case be with me, my patriotism is rooted in the expression of the ideal. That there are
and were those who fail and continue to fail to meet those ideals is obvious, but me feeling shame for the fact that Jefferson was a slave owner or Trump is what Trump is, for example, would be a strange thing for me to burden myself with.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 14:25#7433710 likes
Plot twist: Basques no longer want to get the independence of Spain. They want to be part of the state and they feel Spanish more than ever.
If you do not trust me, look this statistics:
40 % of the population of Basque feel Spanish and Basque. Only a 19 % feels "only basque" and a 41 % of the population are against independence.
Yeah, but there is also the old comment "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics."
I will wait to hear from actual Basque groups.
Because some politicians play the role of "good hearts" and redeemers just for political purposes.
Have you gained enough information regarding Nicola Sturgeon to justify your accusation that she is a demagog? If so, then offer it, as I think she is an excellent and honest politician.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 14:27#7433720 likes
It's ok to be ashamed in spite of being personally innocent. It's part of the country's redemption? A reason to be humble? A reason to be committed to the ways things have changed? Especially when there's still a lot of racism, as in the UK and the US.
:smile: :up:
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 14:40#7433740 likes
but me feeling shame for the fact that Jefferson was a slave owner or Trump is what Trump is, for example, would be a strange thing for me to burden myself with.
You can feel anger towards their personal hypocrisy rather than feel personal shame.
I fluctuate between these two emotions when I consider particular detailed examples of known historical Scots who are revealed to have actually behaved atrociously during their lives and the honourable legacy, they claimed to have left, is actually fake and contrived.
It's important that our role models of the future are not fatally flawed, flawed is ok, to err is human, but not practising what you preach at the most fundamental level should remove you from any future historical celebration of your life and legacy. Your life and legacy should instead, be added to the historical list of cautionary tales.
There is such a thing as bringing shame on one's country or any institution we belong to. ' You've let your classmates down. You've let me down. You've let the whole school down. Worst of all, you have let yourself down.' (Or was that just me and my school?) The get-out is that we can disavow belonging to school, nation, etc. People who really and practically have to live without a viable country would not have that luxury and privilege. So perhaps those of us who are luckier should be grateful, even at the cost of being shamed by the shameful behaviour of others. The only thing worse than family is no family.
Or, as would the case be with me, my patriotism is rooted in the expression of the ideal. That there are and were those who fail and continue to fail to meet those ideals is obvious, but me feeling shame for the fact that Jefferson was a slave owner or Trump is what Trump is, for example, would be a strange thing for me to burden myself with.
I also appreciate the good stuff and frown at the bad, but I also feel connected to Lincoln, the Roosevelts, NASA, etc. Maybe it's lame to gather them up as parts of who I am as an American.
I think you're emotionally mature to avoid that kind of blurring between your self and your nationality. I don't tend to be that mature, so I have to take the Trump with the Martin Luther King Jr.
I am not personally responsible because I have not abused any native peoples. You seem to be struggling to understand that...
..I have never been involved in the slave trade and I have never been a tobacco lord...
...This would mean something to me if it was based on rational argument, but so far, I have found your analysis of my position and viewpoint on this topic, irrational.
You seem to be struggling to understand that, to the extent you still benefit from the behavior of the British Empire, you still share responsibility. You'll probably say that you don't benefit, but the entire economy of the UK is built on a foundation of lives and resources stolen from around the world. In the US, it's more obvious since our racial history still stares us in the face on a daily basis.
We wouldn't be talking about this if you didn't set off pontificating self-righteously about how bad it is here in the US. Your arguments are the same as those used by white Americans to disclaim responsibility.
It seems to me that you agree with my viewpoints on this issue more than you disagree but you have some bizarre national pride piffle going on in your head between 'Scottishness' and 'Americanness.'
Try to understand that my chosen handle for this site was 'universeness,' not 'anally retentive proud Scotsman.'
Try to understand that my objections are to your self-satisfied certainty.
What I don't think will lead to greater societal successes and happiness is the constant reminder that some have unfair advantages over others and that we need to constantly be redistributing resources to account for that.
As I noted in my responses to Universeness, I am participating in this conversation is mostly because of his self-righteous pomposity. That being said, if redistributing resources isn't the correct mechanism, and I think you're right that it probably isn't, what is?
javi2541997September 29, 2022 at 18:06#7434190 likes
You seem to be struggling to understand that, to the extent you still benefit from the behavior of the British Empire, you still share responsibility. You'll probably say that you don't benefit, but the entire economy of the UK is built on a foundation of lives and resources stolen from around the world.
I don't want to mind your own business but I disagree. The issue is more complex than just say that "European countries are rich because they stole all the resources back then". Well the spectrum of colonialism has different perspectives.
According to your point, I should share "responsibility" because of the Spanish empire and inquisition and therefore how the economy is built "thanks to the resources of Latin America"
Well that's flawed because the economy of Spain is soft and I am (and will be) probably poorer than you because the wages of Spain are clearly lower than the US. So... where are the benefits of being born in an old empire? I don't see it...
Those resources such as gold, cocoa, silver, etc... were only taken advantage of a few of Spanish bourgeois. The population never perceived benefits. They were poor and died in misery working as slaves for their landowners.
In the other hand. It depends on the territory we are talking about. When the "conquistadors" landed in some territories as "Cook islands" or "Dominican Republic" there wasn't anything of value. The discovery was just islands full of monkeys and coconuts...
Before the British civilized the Scots they were barely past the barbarian stage of development, occasionally skinning captives alive. just ask Hugh de Cressingham.
— Bitter Crank
You show your ignorance of the history of these islands. If you demonstrated accurate historical knowledge of the various peoples that have held power in these islands, then I would engage you in an exchange on the topic but your quote above places you in the category of 'ignorant' on your knowledge of the topic.
You are taking offense to the rhetorical device of hyperbole, something one might employ in the Shoutbox. True enough, I am not well informed about the history of Scotland. I shall add your native land to my list of targets for further study, should I have time before the grave.
I have a more granular grasp of England's ancient history, going forward from Rome. In my defense of deficient facts about the lands of the Scots, I'll say that the more deep trenches one digs in history, the smaller the territory one can cover. So skin me alive; my old skin is thin and loose, so it will be an easy task.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 19:22#7434280 likes
Try to understand that my objections are to your self-satisfied certainty.
You come across to me as some kind of bitter and twisted personality. Your arrogance reminds me of an aristocratic attitude. The points you make are just sour and insulting. So, I respond in kind. If you wish to exchange viewpoints with me then you will have to improve your approach or else you should avoid doing so.
universenessSeptember 29, 2022 at 19:57#7434310 likes
You are taking offense to the rhetorical device of hyperbole, something one might employ in the Shoutbox. True enough, I am not well informed about the history of Scotland. I shall add your native land to my list of targets for further study, should I have time before the grave.
I have a more granular grasp of England's ancient history, going forward from Rome. In my defense of deficient facts about the lands of the Scots, I'll say that the more deep trenches one digs in history, the smaller the territory one can cover. So skin me alive; my old skin is thin and loose, so it will be an easy task
Fair enough, but you have mistaken my incredulous response to your comment about the British civilising the Scots, for one of personal offense towards you, of which I have none. In the same way I have none towards T Clark. I simply find his discourse to be full of exactly what he accuses me of, pomposity and arrogance.
I can be as 'tongue in cheek' as anyone else within the less reserved shout box but I will certainly respond negatively to something like, Quoting universeness
Before the British civilized the Scots they were barely past the barbarian stage of development, occasionally skinning captives alive. just ask Hugh de Cressingham.
As a 'tongue in cheek' comment or an attempted windup, I consider the response you would get if you uttered such in a Glasgow pub to a bunch of Glaswegian males. The result would either be your complete ridicule or a physical assault on you or in days of old, you might even suffer a similar fate to Huge de Cressingham. Even old skin can make a good sheath for a highland warrior's dirk. I am only making a shout box joke of course. But anyway, I forgive your slight of the Scots based on shout box flex and that as a modern Scot, I dont want to give the impression that anyone who insults the Scots or Scotland should be 'skinned alive.' :death:
To lighten the mood, let me tell you of my knowledge of Scotland. As you might know, much of the South where I live was settled by the Scots and the Irish, and so I've been to my share of Celtic festivals, although me personally having no Celtic blood. I enjoyed the singing of Loch Lomond enough that when I visited Scotland, I took a train that took me by that famous lake and I think I got a picture from the window. I wasn't sure how sacred the song was because I know it sings of oppression and loss, so I decided not to sing it as we drove by. Celtic songs have that melancholy feel to them and I never know how serious they are to be. I can tell an Irish drinking song though, and if the focus is shaving a drunk guy's belly, I think I'm ok to sing that one without restraint.
I liked Scotland more than I did England, having nothing to do with the culture, the food, or even the friendliness of the people. It was more rural and less congested and I like wide open spaces with sheep and rolling hills as opposed to clutter and people. I did see some bumper stickers and the like for sale that contained comments about 1000s of years of British oppression and it reminded me of confederacy stuff you see in the small towns around here. Of course there's major differences in history and political correctness has muted much of what you see here, but it's the same sentiment of wanting to be left alone.
I don't fully understand Scottish politics beyond some wanting independence from England. In the US, the secessionists tend to believe in a very minimalist government, but from what I hear of the Scottish sentiment is that they tend toward what in the US we'd consider to be liberals (which is not what Europeans think of as liberals). I could be very wrong here, so do feel free to tell me I've missed the boat. It seems the Scottish (and again correct me if I'm wrong) are more willing to align themselves with Europe than the English, as least that's how it appeared with the Brexit thing.
I also can't figure out if the English think of the Scots as yokels or not, or whether they think of them as ingrates. On the one hand, Scotland is rural and less urbane, but it does seem to where wealthy English families would send their children for an education. On the other, it seems to be a place that likely receives more government services than it pays into, at least from an Englishman's perspective, so maybe the complaints from the English of the Scots there.
Not trying to open wounds, but from thousands of miles away it's hard to figure out. Any insight you provide would be appreciated. I have no dog in this fight and will step back if I'm stirring something up. I'm really just curious.
If you'd like for me to describe the view of southerners towards northerners like T Clark I can. Most anti-Yankee sentiment is tongue in cheek, but not all. And a Yankee to a southerner is a northerner, but I do understand Brits use the term Yankee to mean an American. The very generalized view is the American southerners think of northerners as rude, where northerners think of southerners as stupid. In truth, I'm probably ruder than I am stupid, but stereotypes are what they are.
You know we all have involuntary curse words, like when we stub our toe or whatever, they just come out. My involuntary curse word is "Jesus McFuck". No idea why. Anyone else got a weird one like that?
You know we all have involuntary curse words, like when we stub our toe or whatever, they just come out. My involuntary curse word is "Jesus McFuck". No idea why. Anyone else got a weird one like that?
If I'm searching for something and can't find it I say "Where the fuck is the fucking fuck," even if there's no one else around.
unenlightenedSeptember 29, 2022 at 21:43#7434490 likes
If you want to be proud of your history, you have to be prepared to be ashamed of it too, or be a hypocrite. Your hands are clean if you have no history, and no nationality or culture and receive no benefit from historical horrors. As for the history of philosophy - a litany of complete arseholes.
The very generalized view is the American southerners think of northerners as rude, where northerners think of southerners as stupid.
I lived in Tuscaloosa for six months working on a construction job. On a Saturday in September when a home football game was scheduled, I got into a conversation with someone coming into a coffee shop while I was leaving. I started by saying, jokingly, "Hey, why is everyone wearing red sweatshirts around here today." He laughed and then we talked for a few minutes. As we were finishing he asked me "Where are you from." I said "Massachusetts." Then he said "But you're so friendly."
So, I have no trouble with southerners. Generally they have no problem with me. I do seem to run afoul of pompous, self-righteous [s]assholes[/s] people from time to time.
from what I hear of the Scottish sentiment is that they tend toward what in the US we'd consider to be liberals (which is not what Europeans think of as liberals). I could be very wrong here, so do feel free to tell me I've missed the boat. It seems the Scottish (and again correct me if I'm wrong) are more willing to align themselves with Europe than the English, as least that's how it appeared with the Brexit thing.
Yes.
Scotland for a long time was a Labour Party stronghold and more left-wing than England on average. These days, I think the Tories have made a comeback and Labour have declined, but the largest share of the vote in recent elections has been to the SNP, which is nationalist but centre-left. Scottish nationalists in my experience pride themselves on being non-xenophobic, pro-European, and more or less socialist.
Rural parts of Scotland tend to be Conservative, SNP, or (at least in the past) Liberal Democrat, but rarely Labour.
Unlike the confederacy, Scotland as a country or nation wasn’t conquered, destroyed, or, arguably, forced into the Union. It’s true that historically at various times some expansionist English monarchs had invaded and attempted to subjugate the Scots, but this was never successful. The countries were united by means of royal inter-marriage and then the support of Scottish nobles and politicians. But it’s worth noting that Union was only possible because Scotland was weak and struggling financially after a disastrous colonial project, following which the Scots felt like they had no choice—they were not totally into the idea of Union. England certainly used its advantage at the time to make Union inevitable, but it turned out well for Scotland in financial terms and also in terms of industrial, technological, and intellectual development. The Scottish Enlightenment was somehow (I guess economically) linked with the Union, although this is disputed by nationalists (some of whom also seem to disavow David Hume).
I also can't figure out if the English think of the Scots as yokels or not, or whether they think of them as ingrates.
In my personal experience, the English don’t seem like a cohesive unit about which I can generalize. I’ve lived for long periods in the North of England and found the attitudes closer to Scotland than to the South of England. I’ve met Southerners who were amazingly ignorant of and uninterested in Scotland, or in the North in general for that matter. Those people probably think of Scots as yokels.
On the one hand, Scotland is rural and less urbane, but it does seem to where wealthy English families would send their children for an education. On the other, it seems to be a place that likely receives more government services than it pays into, at least from an Englishman's perspective, so maybe the complaints from the English of the Scots there.
A certain class of wealthy, educated, rather conservative English people like to visit or live in Edinburgh and send their kids to school and university there. This dates back a couple of hundred years to the Scottish Enlightenment.
From what I can tell, Scotland contributed more in taxes than it received in spending from the eighties till around 2011, but in recent years has been receiving more than it has contributed.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 08:39#7435110 likes
So, I have no trouble with southerners. Generally they have no problem with me. I do seem to run afoul of pompous, self-righteous assholes people from time to time.
Ah, I begin to understand your condition better. Your main problems are with the man you see when you look in the mirror. An arsehole is a very efficient waste disposal unit. I think it would be too kind to compare you with such a useful system. I continue to be interested in your thoughts regarding the topics raised on TPF. I have little interest in your personal neurosis towards me. You can throw as many toys from your cradle as you wish, if nothing else, it's quite cute.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 09:30#7435230 likes
Reply to Jamal
I agree with the majority of your description of the current sociopolitical situation in Scotland but, I would emphasize that Scotland has never voted for a tory government since 1955, yet we have had to suffer such tory horrors as Thatcher, BoJo the clown and now lover of the rich, Liz Truss. Scotland moved from labour to SNP as Labour had proven themselves as unable to defeat the tories. Tony Blair proved to be the last straw for the Scots as he made the labour party a shade of blue that made them almost indistinguishable from the tories. Keir Starmer is also a shade of blue imo.
I think the failure of the Darian scheme did prove pivotal but I dont think it had to be and I think there is a lot of traction in the claims that important aspects of its failure was "the successful collaboration between the English East India Company and the English government to frustrate it; and, a failure to anticipate the Spanish Empire's military response. It was finally abandoned in March 1700 after a siege by Spanish forces, which also blockaded the harbour."
Having said that, the Scots had no business trying to emulate the English empire building aspirations.
The Darian scheme was about Scots rich pigs trying to act like most rich pigs as they try to become richer. I for one am very glad it failed as if it had succeeded then Scotland would have created their own little empire to apologise for in the future rather than having to just apologise for fighting for the English, although I do agree that an apology from that angle would be a cop out.
The union of the crown had very little to do with the Scots people. It was an agreement between nobles. Scotland was bought and sold for English gold! Another good reason imo for Scotland becoming an independent republic.
but in recent years has been receiving more than it has contributed.
Not true, it ignores the revenue England gets from Scots North Sea oil for a start and what it earns from renewable energy from Scotland and other profits England counts as 'British' revenue, but perhaps that's a political thread all by itself and depends on what you label British or Scottish.
Edit: The term 'ignores,' I used above is inaccurate. The revenue from Scottish oil and renewables are counted but not at 100%. It should be 100% as these resources are fully Scottish.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 09:43#7435240 likes
My involuntary curse word is "Jesus McFuck". No idea why. Anyone else got a weird one like that?
I try to avoid expletives when I can, and I have always used 'oh, in the name of the wee man!' No idea who the wee man is but it's a good replacement for Jesus.
I am currently making a serious conscious effort to remove all religious references when exclaiming emotion. 'For god sake,' is now 'for feck sake or for freak sake.' Oh Jesus Christ! is now Oh good grief!
I now try to apologise and correct myself in conversation if I make a religious reference during an emotional outburst. Things don't change unless we choose to change them.
javi2541997September 30, 2022 at 09:57#7435260 likes
, it ignores the revenue England gets from Scots North Sea oil for a start and what it earns from renewable energy from Scotland
There are some political actors who stands for Scottish independence for exactly those reasons. There are solid arguments on the fact that Scotland can survive by their own resources and become an EU member again.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 10:03#7435280 likes
I was in Scotland in 2018 and I completely fell in love with the country and the Scottish. I lived in Edinburgh and St. Andrews. A lot of good memories are coming to my mind...
My English skills were regular in that period but I never felt ashamed and the citizens helped me out to improve my level.
While I suffered of racism in London :rofl: I never experienced it in Scotland. This is why I told my parents to please let me go to Scotland to learn English instead of UK! :lol:
An arsehole is a very efficient waste disposal unit.
I beg to differ. An arsehole is really a producer of waste, not a waste disposal system. The problem with all living beings is that they produce waste, then they rely on someone else (or some other being) to dispose of it. Unless you are the one living off another's waste, you ought not say that the arsehole is a useful system.
I am currently making a serious conscious effort to remove all religious references when exclaiming emotion
But that defeats the purpose. Emotional exclamations are a cathartic antidote to the repressive parasite that is social convention! Jesus McFuck, man, let yourself go!
But that defeats the purpose. Emotional exclamations are a cathartic antidote to the repressive parasite that is social convention! Jesus McFuck, man, let yourself go!
Agreed.
I always say "oh my jesus christ" or "shite-fucker".
I am currently making a serious conscious effort to remove all religious references when exclaiming emotion. 'For god sake,' is now 'for feck sake or for freak sake.' Oh Jesus Christ! is now Oh good grief!
I now try to apologise and correct myself in conversation if I make a religious reference during an emotional outburst. Things don't change unless we choose to change them.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 13:35#7435580 likes
Reply to javi2541997
:smile: That's really nice Javi! I'm so glad your experience with Scotland and the Scots has been so positive so far. May it always be so. The Scottish tourist board should offer you a job! It probably wouldn't offer as good pay as the career you described you recently took a test for, but it would definitely involve lots of ambassadorial travel.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 13:46#7435590 likes
Otherwise, I have to disagree with Clarky. You're not an asshole, merely a bawbag.
:lol: Well, I have been called much worse and by far more imbalanced individuals than Mr Cluck ... I mean Clark, sorry, that accursed shout box flex! Bawbags and Arseholes are both pretty useful systems, where would we be without them? Fecally impacted and impotent. :scream: I need my arsehole and my bawbag! :yikes:
you ought not say that the arsehole is a useful system.
Would you like to be without it for a week or two? You might start to walk funny after a while.
Perhaps you could pray for an immaculate evacuation of your bowels after a permanent but-plug insertion.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 13:54#7435650 likes
I was indeed referring to the Darian scheme but I didn't know much about it.
Ah, I see, the details are quite interesting, but the intentions of the Scots involved, do not represent the better angels of the Scots nature or Scots culture imo.
My involuntary curse word is "Jesus McFuck". No idea why. Anyone else got a weird one like that?
Sometimes when exasperated, I say, "Man oh Manischewitz!" If I were Irish, I'd likely say, "Man O'Manischewitz!"
If you didn't know, and I don't know what the Jesus McFuck you know, but Manischewitz is a disgusting brand of ceremonial Jewish wine that tastes like a syrupy sweet grape juice.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 14:02#7435700 likes
But that defeats the purpose. Emotional exclamations are a cathartic antidote to the repressive parasite that is social convention! Jesus McFuck, man, let yourself go!
You temp me brother! AAAAARRRGGGGHHHHH! JESUS MCFUCKING FUCK BAMMY BASTARDS CRAZY FUCKWIT PUTIN! WHAT ARE THE RUSKIES FUCKING DOING IN THE NAME OF JESUS MCFUCK! RISE UP AND GET RID OF THAT CRAZY MCFUCK BASTARD BEFORE HE AND HIS MAD BASTARD SUPPORTERS KILL US ALL!.
Thanks brother baden, for encouraging me to let go for a moment, that felt even better than the end of the worst constipation I have ever had! Thank goodness I have a functioning arsehole! :death: :flower:
Well, I can't count how many disgruntled theists that have used such against me in mid atheist debate in pubs, parties etc. I might say something like 'oh for gods sake listen,' and they respond with something like 'for an atheist you make a lot of appeals to god!' Then I have to spend time defending with counters such as 'I am merely employing learned habit!' etc and I am rather tired of using that excuse. things dont change if we don't change them!
Reply to universeness Either they have succeeded in winding you up, or you're taking part in idiotic debates. Either way, saying "for God's sake" is not a problem.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 14:15#7435790 likes
Either they have succeeded in winding you up, or you're taking part in idiotic debates.
Oh theists can succeed in winding me up, as much as I try to defend against feeling such.
All theistic debates often become idiotic as they reach impasse so quickly, but organised theism is too powerful and destructive, to the many, to be ignored and not challenged.
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 14:25#7435810 likes
Why? Take the Lord's name in vain. Blaspheme. Do it with pride.
Permission to 'let all my blasphemy out' from you and @Baden aw shucks guys!
JESUS MCFUCK PUTIN YA BAMMY BASTARD DO YOU THINK YOUR FUCKING GOD OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks brother Michael. I wonder if I would be too scared to shout my recent capitalised typings as loudly as I could in the middle of Red Square. Waddyafink @Jamal? should I catch a quick filight to Moscow and we will shout it together in Red Square just before we run for your flight to Azerbaijan?
Wow! Colourful and tasty. The smell would be amazing :starstruck:
universenessSeptember 30, 2022 at 14:47#7435860 likes
Reply to javi2541997
I drink such 'ale' type beers in the winter or dark porter like Guinness.
Warms the innards and gives you a lovely inner glow, which will eventually become a kind of pleasant facial throb of contentment. The more I drink, the more affable I become. I am a very happy drunk, not aggressive at all, even if I mix in some single malts.
I only drink now on a Friday or and sometimes and a Saturday. In my younger years I would enjoy many Thursday nights on the piss as well, but I don't have the oomph for that amount of play anymore.
I do like me a Guinness, but I must assume Baden does not under the theory that no one likes their local food and drink.
Doubt it, all drinking Irishmen like porter most Irish women do to.
As many Irish women as men were drinking pints (or in the Dublin accent, poyints) of porter in Dublin, 'Temple bar' area, in the few times I have been there. As a 'stout,' I think, in moderation, its actually quite good for you. Have you tasted the 'cold' Guinness.
Anyway. I think a pint of cold Guinness will be on my lips within the half hour. Already showered so time to get dressed and head oot fur ma Friday razzle! Type tae yees again soon!
Ah, I begin to understand your condition better. Your main problems are with the man you see when you look in the mirror. An arsehole is a very efficient waste disposal unit. I think it would be too kind to compare you with such a useful system. I continue to be interested in your thoughts regarding the topics raised on TPF. I have little interest in your personal neurosis towards me. You can throw as many toys from your cradle as you wish, if nothing else, it's quite cute.
There are some political actors who stands for Scottish independence for exactly those reasons. There are solid arguments on the fact that Scotland can survive by their own resources and become an EU member again.
Just curiosity - Is the drive for independence for Catalonia similar to that for Scotland?
In other news, my wife tells me the cat left a dead mole on the doorstep, so I go and look and it's a medium sized possum curled up and still breathing but clearly seen better days. Yahweh McBunghole, That was a disgusting looking sight. Since it was on the mat, I was able to roll it up and sling it in my neighbor's yard, where it received, from the sound of the thud, what sounded to be a proper burial.
Just curiosity - Is the drive for independence for Catalonia similar to that for Scotland?
I think not. Catalonia shares a very similar heritage, culture and language with the rest of Spain. It is true that they speak Catalan but it comes from Latin as Spanish. Not like Scottish that they speak Gaelic (as Navarre and Basque country speak basque similar to their language)
Furthermore, I personally think that Catalonia wants to be selfish with Spain because their goal is to become a tax heaven country as Andorra, Luxembourg, Gibraltar, etc...
Their objective is monetary. So, I guess it is so different from Scotland's view.
Even Catalonian independents are ready to leave the European Union if its necessary... crazy.
But the language doesn't have relation with English, Lombard, Latin, etc... I mean, if the Scottish wants to use the culture argument, they can pick the language option
Reply to javi2541997 Gaelic’s relationship with English is completely irrelevant, and the fact that Catalan is a Latin language along with Spanish is also irrelevant to the issue of Catalan independence.
javi2541997September 30, 2022 at 17:11#7436220 likes
Well, depends in the context. If you go to Catalonia you would see that Catalan is relevant for the independence (Despite the fact it is not so different from Spanish) .This is why I said that there are big differences between the two independent movements.
Reply to javi2541997 Yes, for Catalonia, the fact that it has a distinct language is certainly relevant to the independence debate. What I said was that whether or not it’s in the same language family as Spanish is not relevant.
In Scotland, language is even less relevant than that, because so few people speak Gaelic. It has little or nothing to do with the independence movement.
In other news, my wife tells me the cat left a dead mole on the doorstep, so I go and look and it's a medium sized possum curled up and still breathing but clearly seen better days.
I've rethought this and there is no way that Kitty McCatCat would have been able to kill that big ass possum and then haul it up the steps and up to the door. It must have been the doings of Fred McDogDog, whose 90 pound frame and house sized head could have crushed that possum with a single crunching McCrunchcrunch.
I feel like with the Scottishcentricy of the McShoutbox these days and Mc@Baden's reference to the McLord and McSavior as he has, that my new way of McSpeaking is in order.
It's not clear though whether this new McTalk actually sounds Scottish or if it just sounds like the language the Hamburglar might speak at McDonalds.
In Scotland, language is even less relevant than that, because so few people speak Gaelic. It has little or nothing to do with the independence movement.
This is what I intended to argue but I didn't express myself properly.
I'm going to rewrite the Lord of the Rings and the hobbits will have nuclear weapons.
Great idea. Can the whole thing end at chapter two with an elegant mushroom cloud, sparing us all that interminable cod mythology? If only Tolkien himself had been able to think of this. The Noble Price for mercy to literature is yours, Frank.
Reply to Tom Storm We definitely won't need three books. Every time a manifestation of evil appears a hobbit will say, "Oh no you don't, bitch!" and blow them to kingdom come.
Also, I've always wondered. Why do you bother posting on the forum on weekends when you don't have to blow off work?
Well, you have no evidence that it is Hanover who produces all these posts. I'm pretty sure Hanover is a handle used by a bunch of gag writers for Seth Meyers.
Reply to Tom Storm You're not wrong. Hanovercorp (R) is a multinational public relations firm specializing in web based philosophy forum content. We have long history of turning around lagging Shoutboxes with fun sexually disturbing humor and occasional depictions of thought provoking dental trauma.
We won a Jamalrob (the equivalent of a Pulitzer) for our clever retro humor where we uploaded pictures of handwritten posts instead of typing them.
It was such a success, one glowing reviewer remarked,
"Also, I've always wondered. Why do you bother posting on the forum on weekends when you don't have to blow off work?"
One of my favorite jokes is reminiscing about the present.
Reply to Hanover Ada is an equally stupid name for an incomprehensible novel by a genius which reads like Heidegger for people who don't like National Socialism.
As we were finishing he asked me "Where are you from." I said "Massachusetts." Then he said "But you're so friendly."
Back in 1968 when I went to Boston for a stint in the VISTA program, I expected people to be unfriendly. I quickly discovered that my expectations were way off, and that the midwest where I was from was far less friendly. Over the last 50 years nothing has happened in Minnesota to change this impression.
It's odd: here you have a prosperous, well-educated state where at least half the population seems to be practically devoid of socializing skills. A lot of the midwest is the same.
Henry Smorynski, a political scientist I knew at St. Thomas College, thought that the low-sociability originated in the agrarian and small town culture which dominated this area for a long time. Rural small-town people didn't need to develop good social skills because one's role was largely established by one's family. One just had to fulfill the predicted role or get the hell out of town -- which a lot of people did. They came to larger cities where they brought and kept minimal social skills for dealing with diverse situations.
Reply to Bitter Crank Could just be dickheadedness got into the gene pool and it's hard to work out, especially if it's a dominant trait. I have blue eyes (and they're stunning btw), but they'll work themselves out eventually I guess, maybe not dickheadedness.
I have blue eyes (and they're stunning btw), but they'll work themselves out eventually I guess, maybe not dickheadedness.
Right, blue eyes are recessive, so it ought to work out... unless they are specifically bred for. Those agrarians, they seem to know all about breeding for particular traits. Maybe even dickheadedness?
Is it possible to 'always look on the bright side of life'?
This Eric Idle interview is brilliant. There is SO much in it...
However, I chose only one excerpt. Because of George :hearts: :death: :flower:
‘I didn’t cry until I knew I was going to live’: Monty Python’s Eric Idle on surviving pancreatic cancer- Simon Hattenstone.
Three years after being diagnosed, the 79-year-old has been given the all-clear. He reflects on losing his friends George Harrison and Robin Williams – and how he still manages to always look on the bright side of life.
[...]
Even so, he says, he wasn’t scared. Why not? “George Harrison.
He always said to me: ‘Well, you can have as much money as you want, you can be the most famous person in the world, but you’re still going to have to die.’” He does a cracking dour scouse impersonation of the former Beatle. “This was always his theme. And he prepared for it his entire life. I was around his deathbed. He wasn’t worried because he was in the Hindu faith.” Idle’s only faith is in science, but Harrison’s acceptance of death profoundly affected him. “It was just fabulous to see someone pass away calmly without panic, regret or bitterness. It was a great example.”
It was only after receiving the recent good news from his doctor that Idle went public about the cancer. He decided it was time to campaign, to tell people that there is hope. “That’s why I came out about it. I wanted to say: ‘Look, I was very lucky and I survived. And so can you.’ I’ve heard from so many people how much that meant to them. And that chokes me up. That makes me cry.” He pauses. “If there is a more appropriate song for me than Always Look on the Bright Side of Life, I’d like to know about it.”
It's vital to get any symptoms checked out early. Just do it!
Know what the symptoms are, talk to your GP, get tests, even a simple blood test for starters...
https://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/information/worried-about-pancreatic-cancer/
For some reason, I read 'pancreatic' but was thinking 'prostate'.
Probably because my friend's husband has it.
Again, it's so important to get checked out early.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/symptoms/
But back to the silly stuff.
I'm sure there's a joke out there somewhere. Oh, look...
Reply to frank I solved it, but I washed my jeans with the solution in my pocket and now it's just a clump of unreadable paper. I tried to redo it, but I just kept mindlessly drawing stickmen and I couldn't get the solution again.
Wish I'd have checked the pockets before washing, but what are you going to do?
The dog always eats the homework … if your teacher demands to wait till it craps it out then you better have another excuse…or just make sure the poor dog dies in some sort of freak accident before it has the chance to take a crap
Back in 1968 when I went to Boston for a stint in the VISTA program, I expected people to be unfriendly. I quickly discovered that my expectations were way off, and that the midwest where I was from was far less friendly. Over the last 50 years nothing has happened in Minnesota to change this impression.
When I was talking to the man in Tuscaloosa, after he said "but you're so friendly," I told him people in Massachusetts are friendly, it's just a different kind of friendly.
As for the midwest, I did a fair amount of work there when I was an engineer. I found the people very friendly. One time I was working at a site in Indiana. It was just me and the guy operating the excavator. I was trying to move something awkward and heavy. He jumped down off the excavator and helped me. That would never happen in the northeast.
As for the midwest, I did a fair amount of work there when I was an engineer. I found the people very friendly. One time I was working at a site in Indiana. It was just me and the guy operating the excavator. I was trying to move something awkward and heavy. He jumped down off the excavator and helped me. That would never happen in the northeast.
You mean an actual guy who was working with you on a project wouldn't have helped you? Y'all suck.
I was at the furniture store the other day and this lady was sitting in her car complaining that she had been waiting hours for a wrecker to help change her tire. I told her I'd help her and I had her tire almost off (even lowered the spare from underneath), but there was some sort of lock on the tire and she didn't have the key. I beat the shit out of it the best I could to knock it loose, but it was designed not to be stolen.
My point is that you're supposed to help people out and even fuck their shit up just like it was your own when trying to help. If they want professional help, they can ask someone other than the eager rando with the monkey wrench and sledge hammer.
The craft beer company brewdog that has a branch in my local town had its CEO accused of being a sexual predator with claims stating that he would ask his female staff to dress provocatively etc.
In response managers would ensure female staff were not around when he arranged to visit the branch.
Half an hour I went to brewdog and heard a song that contained the lyrics “I wanna fuck you like an animal”
Few days ago the guy published an account denying such accusations.
Punk IPA is ok, the CEO should if he has any sense step down. But as the founder I doubt it will happen
javi2541997October 03, 2022 at 20:27#7446320 likes
Reply to Deus Brewdog is literally the promoter of craft beer as we know it today. They started back in 2007 with the aim of making pubs specialised on quality beer. So big respects for Brewdog and the workers but dislike :down: to the CEO.
Enjoy this for the drumming. Like the drummer has metronome and clocks for brains. Perfect in precision. And yes! There's only one drummer the entire recording of this song.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
Yeah, you fucking with some wet ass pussy
Bring a bucket and a mop for this wet ass pussy
Give me everything you got for this wet ass pussy
Beat it up, nigga, catch a charge
Extra large, and extra hard
Put this pussy right in yo' face
Swipe your nose like a credit card
Hop on top, I want a ride
I do a kegel while it's inside
Spit in my mouth, look at my eyes
This pussy is wet, come take a dive
Tie me up like I'm surprised
Let's role-play, I wear a disguise
I want you to park that big Mack truck right in this little garage
Make it cream, make me scream
Out in public, make a scene
I don't cook, I don't clean
But let me tell you, I got this ring (ayy, ayy)
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 12:25#7448620 likes
Reply to Deus
Perhaps Cardi B was relaying a scene she witnessed between her mum and dad when they were engaged in 'making love.' Or perhaps she was describing something she was watching on the discovery channel narrated by David Attenborough.
Such attempts at shock lyrics are just desperate attempts to make money and advance a singing career.
I think more and more people see through this now.
The answer is not to be shocked or titillated, but just try to continue to see the difference between the joy of sex and an individual's chosen description of some of the mechanics involved or side actions, some choose to engage in.
Sex sells. It’s as simple as that. It’s the oldest profession.
Sex is not a profession, but prostitution is and sure, it is often called the oldest profession, but I think that's just a myth. I think hunter/gatherer is the oldest profession, and in those days, I don't think there was much of a concept of female prostitution, there was more of a natural procreative imperative in control.
Food and water sell as well as sex does, all things humans need sell pretty well. No suprise there!
Sex is not a profession ? What is it then ? Gender ?
Sex is prostitution whether you get it for free from your wife, partner or visit a dodgy brothel is irrelevant.
My mum is a whore, she fucked my dad and that was a mistake. Now I stand before you, philosophising …
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 13:15#7448770 likes
Sex is a human consensual activity, which can indeed be part of a financial agreement between the people involved but can just as easily have no particular financial component, as a wife can often earn more than a husband, or they can be close to financial parity.
Sex is prostitution whether you get it for free from your wife, partner or visit a dodgy brothel is irrelevant.
So, are you claiming women don't enjoy consensual sex as much as men do?
Do you know there have always been males who sell sex to women as well?
I will leave it to your mum to defend herself or agree with your words regarding her.
King Charles has been allowed to vet and potentially lobby for changes to emergency legislation to freeze rents in Scotland because the measures could affect tenants on his private Highland estate at Balmoral.
A bill to stop landlords unjustifiably raising rents for the next six months because of the cost of living crisis is being rushed through the Scottish parliament this week.
The king’s involvement, under rules known in Scotland as crown consent, can be revealed after the rules at Holyrood were changed following a Guardian investigation into the monarch’s power to influence and amend the UK’s laws.
[ ... ]
The cost of living (tenant protection) Scotland bill is the first piece of draft legislation affected by Johnstone’s ruling and is the first at Holyrood to be vetted by the king.
Without knowing what the intention behind the vetting is I can’t possibly comment
Indeed.
The UK government will simply state consent has been applied, but provide no further information.
As to the intentions of the 'crown', one can only have a stab...
Think power, think increased wealth, think what you like. The very existence of such an 'arcane consent mechanism' should be questioned in a so-called 'democracy'. Serving the people, my ass.
'Transparency' is that too much to ask?
As an interim measure, Labour said it hoped to expand Scotland’s freedom of information legislation to include correspondence by the King’s lawyers. A private member’s bill being tabled by Katy Clark, a Scottish Labour MSP, aims to update Holyrood’s 20-year-old freedom of information regulations.
Sarwar’s pledge represents the most radical proposal in the UK to open up the arcane consent mechanism. More than 1,000 laws were vetted by the late Queen during her reign before they were passed by the Westminster parliament.
Buckingham Palace has been approached for comment.
Providing the monarchy with ceremonial powers throws a bone to those enamored with royalty, but it poses a danger if you give the King actual power to over-rule a democratically passed law, especially one in a region not exactly overrun with loyalists to the crown.
I would expect therefore that the King will exercise no discretion, but will defer to whatever law is passed because to do otherwise will result in his being stripped of that power, and all he can hope to protect at this point is the formality and pomp and circumstance that centers around being a figure head it he wants any role at all.
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 14:24#7449030 likes
Though my ways of thinking may be old I’m no old man.
It was your thought processes I was referring to, not your claimed status as young or its accompanying life inexperience.
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 14:35#7449110 likes
Reply to Amity
Who can express the feelings of the people against monarchy better than the best non-theist there ever was in all the history of theism:
...it poses a danger if you give the King actual power to over-rule a democratically passed law, especially one in a region not exactly overrun with loyalists to the crown.
About the level of 'actual power', I've had to look up 'Crown Consent':
What is Crown consent?
Crown consent is a process which requires Scottish Government ministers to seek the consent of the Crown in relation to certain Bills.
When is Crown consent required?
The King’s consent is required if a Bill would affect the King’s:
- prerogative (certain powers and rights that the Crown has, including, for example, the power to appoint Ministers or to give Royal Assent to Bills)
- hereditary revenues (revenue from land owned by the Crown), or
- private interests (anything that affects the King personally).
The consent of the Prince and Steward is only needed in very rare cases when the Bill makes provisions specific to the Prince and Steward. Since feudal tenure was abolished in Scotland it is now even less likely to be needed in the future.
So, there we have it. Any Bill affecting Charlie's power, rights, revenue, private interests requires him to give consent. What this seems to mean is that the law is not 'over-ruled' as such.
Rather it is 'vetting' it. Majestic meddling. Protecting privileges.
It will be a long time, if ever before this power will be stripped from him.
However, steps are being taken...as per article...
Frankie Boyle's New World Order is returning for a sixth series on BBC Two, as the comic prepares to write a follow-up to his bestselling debut novel. However, the status of his Channel 4 stand-up documentary, Frankie Boyle: Monarchy, is in doubt following The Queen's death.
"Let's spare a thought for everyone who was just putting the finishing touches to a humorous documentary about the monarchy" Boyle tweeted on Monday.
The Queen's death seems to have stopped all criticism of the monarchy.
I think the change-over, the passing of the 'crown' is all the more reason to analyse it...
But yeah, probably best to wait until all the sentimentality has died down.
Emotions run high when stirred so...there's a time and a place...
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 15:38#7449390 likes
No, Father Ted! is the best non-theistic theist ever. I think everyone dressed as Father ted holding placards with The Monarchy and 'down with this sort of thing' written below it would scare the shit out of the British elites if we had enough protesters, perhaps something like:
Although I do like the V for Vendetta approach as well, but the whole 'Guy Fawkes, gunpowder plot,' against the life of James 1st, is not quite the action against the current King, I would support.
But Frankie Boyle, yeah, not a bad idea, he is a bit like unleashing the Neuk's!
Might actually prove useful, if Scotland becomes independent, another good reason why after independence we should become a republic.
If Scotland does become independent then they will continuously show re-runs of braveheart on their telly tube. Every hour 27/4 whilst washing down your haggis with irn-bru
If Scotland does become independent then they will continuously show re-runs of braveheart on their telly tube. Every hour 27/4 whilst washing down your haggis with irn-bru
No, Father Ted! is the best non-theistic theist ever. I think everyone dressed as Father ted holding placards with The Monarchy and 'down with this sort of thing' written below it would scare the shit out of the British elites if we had enough protesters, perhaps something like:
:rofl:
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 16:14#7449570 likes
Reply to Deus
How young are you child? Are you an infant deus?
Scotland ? Braveheart, haggis & Irn Bru, that's your best shot eh?
:rofl: Are you still watching a TV with a tube in it? Scotland moved to smart TV's ages ago.
What do you eat and drink when watching a movie on your telly tube :lol: Tharida washed down with mead?
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 16:24#7449620 likes
Old enough to drink your best whisky and young enough to do it for the next 60 years with limited damage to my liver.
Oh please go on child, tell me your name for Scotlands best whisky and tell me why you think it's so.
I will know if you merely offer me words you found on google.
Twenty somethings and whisky is not a combination I would recommend.
Why it’s Jack Daniel’s of course…what other whiskey comes close ?
How’s Scotland’s policy on taxing high strength alcohol going … louts still presenting the same old problems ?
universenessOctober 04, 2022 at 20:22#7450170 likes
Reply to Deus
:death: :flower: A bottle of nothing more than alcohol burn that's so bad, normal people drown it in coke.
True whisky drinkers don't even mention the name of such pretender products.
Perhaps if you keep trying, by the time you reach 60, you can dare again to talk about drinking Scots whisky.
Scotland has its fair share of louts, yes but most of them either join the police, the army or try to become conservative MP's, regardless of the current tax rate on high strength alcohol.
Reply to universeness Do you have a favorite whisky? I used to drink about 70 liters of the stuff every year but I never really minded what kind (as long as it wasn't cheap and oily). I toyed with a bunch of single malts (Laphroaig, Glenmorangie, Glendronach) but I was just as happy with Chivas or Johnnie Black. I'm not a connoisseur of anything and I generally only drank for the effect.
Contrary to popular belief if the math is right then 365/70 litres a year is only what a 200ml a day ? Is that even a lot … I guess it depends on the strength
This applies to drinking on any single occasion (not regular drinking, which is covered by the weekly guideline)
The Chief Medical Officers’ advice for men and women who wish to keep their short term health risks from single occasion drinking episodes to a low level is to reduce them by:
• limiting the total amount of alcohol you drink on any single occasion
• drinking more slowly, drinking with food, and alternating with water
• planning ahead to avoid problems e.g. by making sure you can get home safely or that you have people you trust with you.
The sorts of things that are more likely to happen if you do not understand and judge correctly the risks of drinking too much on a single occasion can include:
• accidents resulting in injury, causing death in some cases
• misjudging risky situations, and
• losing self-control (e.g. engaging in unprotected sex).
Some groups of people are more likely to be affected by alcohol and should be more careful of their level of drinking on any one occasion for example those at risk of falls, those on medication that may interact with alcohol or where it may exacerbate pre-existing physical and mental health problems.
If you are a regular weekly drinker and you wish to keep both your short- and long term health risks from drinking low, this single episode drinking advice is also relevant for you.
I used to drink socially, just to be social, but never enjoyed it, but then got old enough not to care about being social, so quit drinking. Non-drinkers are boring to drinkers, but not nearly as boring as drinkers are to non-drinkers.
By day we live in the same worlds, but not by night, although my days usually start much earlier and end much earlier.
I figure I get 10s of thousands less calories per year as well, so there's that too.
I used to drink red wine because they tasted good with whatever dish I would have. And then studies came out about how alcohol at any amount is harmful.
I also believed that I'm a good candidate for alcoholism, although I only drank wine during meals, a glass. But somehow, I think I don't trust myself with alcohol.
Reply to L'éléphant I haven't had a drink for some years but it's smoking I found hardest to quit. It took some work but I haven't even had a puff for close to 20 years. I used to sit in bars and drink/smoke solidly for 10 hour sessions.
By day we live in the same worlds, but not by night, although my days usually start much earlier and end much earlier.
This is why I start drinking in the morning. I can finish drinking by evening, get a good night’s sleep, and wake up early the next morning refreshed and ready to start again.
Before breakfast, I have one can of Tennents Super to wake me up, then a quarter bottle of Famous Grouse to go with my oats, black pudding, and smoked salmon. I sip the whisky so that it lasts me till elevenses, when I have a bottle of sparkling wine such as cava or champagne (with chocolate eclairs served on doilies). For lunch I’ll have two bottles of good red wine to accompany a roast fowl.
Then I take a break till four o’clock, when I have two or three gins and tonic, then more sparkling wine to go with ham sandwiches for high tea. After a bike ride it’s time for pre-dinner aperitifs, which can be more gin, a bottle of Buckfast Tonic Wine, or maybe just four or five cans of Tennents Super. For dinner, I’ll have a bottle of Chablis to go with the fish course, then two or three bottles of red wine to go with a hearty meat stew or pork roast, and finally a bottle of port to go with the cheese.
Then I retire to my armchair for brandy or whisky. After half a bottle it’s time for a jog, a small beer, and then bed.
universenessOctober 05, 2022 at 08:26#7452540 likes
I tasted a 26-year-old Lagavullain about 10 years ago, which I have never forgotten. The depth and smoothness of the peaty tones has to be experienced to be appreciated/believed. But at over £1500 for a 70cl bottle, I would have to get invited to another whisky party thrown by a well-heeled headmaster.
So, my fall-back fav is a 16-year-old lagavullain but a Caol Ila, an Ileach or a Laphroaig are all welcome encounters. I was given a 27-year-old Bowmore on retirement and I have a dram from that, every birthday. I am pleasantly surprised by Octomore at over £120 per bottle (which I won't pay for a 7-year-old, but my brother-in-law will) and I really like the Ardbeg range, particularly the 'An oa.'
I used to drink about 70 liters of the stuff every year
Well, that's about 100 regular sized bottles a year or less than two bottles per week.
You were certainly way below alky numbers on the whisky front but, yeah, a bit of a high consumption.
I am currently about half a bottle over a Friday and Saturday night.
Two of the best blended whisky's available imo. Chivas is normally a 12-year-old. I tried a 13-year-old recently and was very surprised at the difference between it and the 12.
universenessOctober 05, 2022 at 08:30#7452550 likes
Reply to Jamal
Wot, no room for a cheeky wee bottle of Mad Dog 20/20:
Wot, no room for a cheeky wee bottle of Mad Dog 20/20:
Absinthe?
universenessOctober 05, 2022 at 09:20#7452740 likes
Reply to javi2541997
The current legal absinthe offerings are too liquorice/aniseed for me. Too close to the taste of Pernod or Sambuca. Now the original green stuff (which is also described as having an aniseed taste) that messed up many past celebs, described as: Absinthe has often been portrayed as a dangerously addictive psychoactive drug and hallucinogen. The chemical compound thujone, which is present in the spirit in trace amounts, was blamed for its alleged harmful effects. is one I would have been able to avoid as I am not a big fan of aniseed flavours.
javi2541997October 05, 2022 at 09:34#7452800 likes
I would have been able to avoid as I am not a big fan of aniseed flavours.
I don't like aniseed flavours neither and the absinthe has a very high grades of alcohol. So this is why I guess is so dangerously hallucinogen :yikes:
This is why I recommend you Sake :cool: It is mild!
universenessOctober 05, 2022 at 09:44#7452840 likes
Reply to javi2541997
I have only tasted Sake on two occasions, both in sushi restaurants.
They were both just nasty tastes. Reminded me of something like straight ouzo or tequila or Irish Potcheen (Poitin). These are just firewaters/grogs/gutrots. Perfectly fine if you just want tae get pissed oot yer face! But not if you want to actually savour the taste of what you are drinking.
javi2541997October 05, 2022 at 09:55#7452890 likes
This is why I start drinking in the morning. I can finish drinking by evening, get a good night’s sleep, and wake up early the next morning refreshed and ready to start again.
This is key, and it's why I see your disciplined regimen of specialized liquors, liqueurs, wines, beers, and whatnot as well worth the expense, easily affordable on a forum owner's salary.
As long as you don't fall into the trap of drinking into late evening, you should be fine, but if anyone can stay within proper boundaries, it's you.
The ones I worry about are the ones unfamiliar with the late evening rule.
Drinking should always be done in moderation although giving your liver a good kicking with strong alcohol now and then is just one way of ensuring it has been fully stressed as any organ should be.
Without sounding like a dick I’d say that looking after your body and organs is important if organ donation is mandatory after you die
So I’m obsessed with paella. Last week I made it for the first time — very simple beginner recipe. Fantastic. I may have been overly zealous with the saffron.
Anyway — I have no bomba rice. I used a short grain rice from a paella kit — has anyone used an alternative? What about arborio? Any recipes?
I also used a cast iron skillet— which I read is a no-no but it came out fine to me.
Anyway — I have no bomba rice. I used a short grain rice from a paella kit — has anyone used an alternative? What about arborio? Any recipes?
I think arborio is quite commonly used as a substitute.
For a couple of years I lived in the Valencian region, where paella originates and where they grow bomba rice. I very much like the traditional Valencian paella, with chicken, rabbit, and green beans. I'm not so keen on the seafood version, even though I like seafood.
Socorrat… A beautiful word for something seemingly banal — the rice that gets crunchy and forms a crust at the bottom of the pan. You might wonder why crusty rice deserves such a name, especially since it is a by-product that many people discard.
I have only tasted Sake on two occasions, both in sushi restaurants.
They were both just nasty tastes
I used to enjoy a good saké and I discovered quality tequila late - smooth and pleasant stuff. Here's a tip - never drink from a bottle with a hat for a lid. Didn't like beer much (and it takes too much work to get drunk), wine in small amounts, but it generally bored me, so I stayed in the world of straight up spirits for most of my drinking years. Had a thing for Irish whisky. And had a bit of a romance with good gin. Avoided cocktails, too much fuss, although I did enjoy the occasional Sazerac made by one particular barman I knew. One of my problems is that I almost never got hangovers. I think this is true for about 1/4 of drinkers.
It's been a long time since I had more than 1 beer or 2 beers, at most. When I did drink more, I didn't get hangovers for beer. Ditto for cocktails. But from wine, very bad.
Certainly my worst hangover was from guzzling a rot gut wine-like product, but much better wines also give me hangovers and headaches. Too many cigarettes + booze is a bad combo as well.
A word to the wise, in no circumstances try to outdrink an Irish man. A Scotsman possibily. An English man you will both pass out at the same time (though the Englishman may claim he can handle his drink better than any of them)
I have only tasted Sake on two occasions, both in sushi restaurants.
They were both just nasty tastes. Reminded me of something like straight ouzo or tequila or Irish Potcheen (Poitin). These are just firewaters/grogs/gutrots. Perfectly fine if you just want tae get pissed oot yer face! But not if you want to actually savour the taste of what you are drinking.
I beg to differ. Sake is nothing like those spirits. It's brewed rather than distilled, it has a much lower alcohol content, and it doesn't taste like them. I like it a lot.
Good tequila is a fine, delicious, sippable drink. It's not just for inadvisably getting superpissed towards the end of a night out.
Ouzo is usually mixed with water and has a strong aniseed flavour.
The "firewaters/grogs/gutrots" category might truly include Poitín, samogon, grappa, chacha, etc. Actually, I'm sure the connoisseurs would say that grappa and chacha are noble beverages, whereas Poitín and samogon are peasant moonshines and therefore have an ignoble reputation.
OPEC the oil cartel is reducing output. A clear failure of western political influence in that area.
Time for change
universenessOctober 06, 2022 at 09:12#7456930 likes
Reply to Tom Storm
Individual relationships with alcohol seem to mimic individual relationships with life in general. If you don't get it right in balance with who you are and what you want. It will fuck you up man!
I like wines, cocktails, beer, lager etc. I get bad hangovers sometimes, but I don't think I have a predilection towards addiction. I have tried to drink more than two nights in a row, in my younger days, when I was on holiday with a bunch of mates in Spain or Cyprus etc and I just become a vomit comet and got called the green nite! (A play on the brave but limited drinker status of idea of a Green Knight).
universenessOctober 06, 2022 at 09:19#7456990 likes
I beg to differ. Sake is nothing like those spirits. It's brewed rather than distilled, it has a much lower alcohol content, and it doesn't taste like them. I like it a lot.
Yeah, what the hell would you know? Youve killed your alcohol expertise rep by revealing yourself as a buckieboy (with perhaps a trail of broken hearted buckett's lying drunk on the kerbs you left them on).
The fact you did not answer my MD 20/20 suggestion leaves me with further suspicions about your drink credentials. Is this your true identity???
[b]Whisky (no e) refers to Scottish, Canadian, or Japanese grain spirits.
Whiskey (with an e) refers to grain spirits distilled in Ireland and the United States.[/b]
Also, just to complete the distinction: Malt refers to the grain which is softened by water and then it is germinated and dried.
An e can make such a difference to your evening. I have never tasted any whiskey created in Ireland that can match Scottish single malts.
Redbreast 12-Year-Old Single Pot Still Irish Whiskey won the award at the prestigious International Wine and Spirit Competition, which is now in it’s 50th year.
I tasted it and was not that impressed at all and it was voted the best whiskEy not the best whisky in the world. Scotland has won that many many times. Highland Park has won it three times (I am not personally a great fan). Ardbeg has won it many times. There was a Japanese usurper one year, but they just obtained and replicated the exact process used in a distillery in Scotland.
Our dear Irish brethren and American/Canadian/Japanese friends do try but scotch is globally the best by far.
universenessOctober 06, 2022 at 09:58#7457180 likes
A word to the wise, in no circumstances try to outdrink an Irish man. A Scotsman possibily. An English man you will both pass out at the same time (though the Englishman may claim he can handle his drink better than any of them)
Hah! have you ever tried to outdrink a Scottish lassie fae Possilpark!
I.5 bottles of whisky and 4 bottles of wine later, She, wull drink yours tae, efter yi pass out intae yer ain pish, she wull take yer wallet and tie up yer bawbag wi a strong elastic band, afore she goes hame!
NO I AM NOT DESCRIBING MY EX FIANCE!
I will claim further. The vast majority of whisky drinkers will agree with me! Some confused whiskEy drinkers may not, but who listens to those infected by E.
universenessOctober 06, 2022 at 10:35#7457320 likes
Both Japanese and Scotch whiskey are very delicious.
I must admit, I do like some of the 'Suntory' range. BUT the story I heard is (folklore involved no doubt), A Japanese family moved to Islay, many years ago, and worked at various distilleries there. One of that group started to record every step taken to produce certain high-quality whisky's.
This info was sent back to relatives in Japan, who started their own distillery and the family descendents became very rich. Some descendants from the original group still live on Islay and still work in the distilleries there. I saw a recent program about Scottish whisky, which featured one very nice Japanese guy who works in a distillery bar and said in a perfect Scottish Islander accent that he would never leave Islay and he had never been involved in passing distillery secrets to the Japanese homeland.
You must make your own mind up as to who is responsible for such theft of Scots heritage!!!!
The Canadians have a little more claim to it as a great deal of that country's population are Scots descendants, so they can rightfully use the whisky (no e) label. :rofl:
universenessOctober 06, 2022 at 10:58#7457420 likes
Iranian school girls protest against the regime in Iran.
ALL POWER TO THESE KIDS! These are the best of us! The nefarious elites are doomed no matter what theistic shit or money trick shit or birthright shit or dynastic inheritance shit or superiority shit they try to use to maintain their power and privilege. Damn them all to the hell they deserve!
javi2541997October 06, 2022 at 11:06#7457450 likes
Sigh... Murakami didn't win the Nobel this year either.
I never read anything about the recent winner, the french writer, Annie Ernaux. Big congratulations to her anyway.
There has been a lot in the news recently about insurance problems in Florida, i.e. insurers leaving the state or going bankrupt. With the recent storm, things will only get worse. I thought this was interesting:
Reply to T Clark I actually used to work for the largest homeowner insurer in the country (that shouldn't be hard to figure out) and they had begun making efforts to leave the state, but something was worked out regarding rates to keep them there. What happens is that they'll have billions in reserves, showing large profits on Monday, only to be wiped out on Tuesday. It's really not a sustainable model, and I think eventually it's going to fall to some sort of government plan.
The insurance industry has always been full of dirty tricks. They find every way possible through carefully constructed law speak to minimise exposure to risks.
The insurance industry has always been full of dirty tricks. They find every way possible through carefully constructed law speak to minimise exposure to risks.
I do not know enough about the insurance industry to answer your question fully.
If I was to speculate it would be this. They do not fully recognise nor have adopted to the markets they aim to serve. As always the common misconception is that the insurance industry is low risk high reward but with a wide playing field and lots of players the profits must be taking a hit
Reply to Hanover I don't know much about the insurance business either, but what the hell. This isn't a business school exam.
I thought insurers spread the risk through secondary re-insurance--pooling risk across several insurance companies. That, and by maximizing ROI of their assets. In the 2007 crash, it turned out that some companies, thinking of AIG, for instance, had done a very bad job in safely investing their assets and had to be bailed out for $180 billion.
There are places in the country that people should understand are too-risky to protect with insurance. Live there if you want, but at your own risk. Hurricanes predictably land on the gulf coast (as opposed to Idaho), but it's the people who have chosen to build on the most precarious and lovely beach front property who should bear the risk by themselves. There are no natural barriers to buffer the storm, other than a palm tree. 1 mile inland, houses are safer.
Similarly, if you build a house tucked into the fire-prone forest on a mountain side...
The poor living on Pine Island, Florida don't have insurance--they can't afford it. The wealthy class on Pine Island can afford it, but they have enough wealth and resources to calculate whether they want to bear the cost alone or live somewhere else.
Since I'm cluttering up the immaculate Shoutbox with cultural documents that look a lot like ads, here's a "CLIO Award Winner". Clios are advertising awards. This one is really quite remarkable.
That, and by maximizing ROI of their assets. In the 2007 crash, it turned out that some companies, thinking of AIG, for instance, had done a very bad job in safely investing their assets and had to be bailed out for $180 billion.
Insurance companies actually operate at a loss, meaning it costs them say $1.04 for every dollar they receive in premiums. That allows them to operate like a bank, where they pay 4% for their money and then earn investment income exceeding that. If the market crashes, so goes the insurance company profits.
Regulations are supposed to limit the sorts of investments an insurer can make and will require a certain amount of reserves to always be on hand.
There are places in the country that people should understand are too-risky to protect with insurance. Live there if you want, but at your own risk.
That's a free market approach, but, alas, we live in a world where people aren't required to live out the consequences of their decisions. Flood insurance is an example where the government has gotten involved to be sure people will be have something to eat when their groceries float away.
I think years ago in South Carolina they told those along the coast they couldn't rebuild after they suffered a loss. A bunch of rich people with really expensive real estate got pissed off, and I don't remember how that worked out.
Speaking of flood insurance, you might remember some lawyer named Scruggs who was somehow related to Trent Lott, the former Senator for Mississippi, who filed all sorts of lawsuits against State Farm (among others) claiming people were improperly denied claims arising out of Katrina. The insurers argued the losses were caused by water damage and should be covered under flood insurance (which few had) and not under their homeowners policies.
Anyway, billions of dollars later, it came out that Scruggs attempted to bribe a judge, resulting in Scruggs going off to jail and Lott being implicated somehow.
The point here is that there are no good guys, just a bunch of people trying to get ahold of that great big pile of money.
Me, I just try to get a free roof when it hails by arguing that my roof is now useless due to the hail and not the fact that it's a 25 year roof on its 30th year. I need to think bigger maybe.
That's a free market approach, but, alas, we live in a world where people aren't required to live out the consequences of their decisions.
The federal flood insurance program will only provide insurance in jurisdictions where specified government flood control policies have been implemented. It's an incentive for localities to require such measures without imposing a federal mandate. It's less coercive than direct federal regulatory control. Seems like a pretty good, balanced idea to me.
the government has gotten involved to be sure people will be have something to eat when their groceries float away
It's OK to feed them Spam for a couple of days. We are a rich and generous country.
BTW, in fairness, people make stupid decisions all over the country, quite often with the aid and assistance of government, real estate operators, builders, and so on, Perhaps not every flood plain has been identified, but most of them have, and there is no good reason to build housing developments in one. Eventually flood plains flood. Eventually former swamp land returns to swamp. (Minneapolis has some nice housing sitting on former swamp land which yearns to be swamp land again. Water problems.)
As they have willingly decided to take the risk upon themselves to live in such areas the govt should at the very least consider some form of flood control or make it illegal to settle there
Insurance companies actually operate at a loss, meaning it costs them say $1.04 for every dollar they receive in premiums. That allows them to operate like a bank, where they pay 4% for their money and then earn investment income exceeding that. If the market crashes, so goes the insurance company profits.
So, State Farm is #42 in the Fortune 500 list;
Revenue Decrease US$79.395 billion (2019)
Net income Decrease US$5.593 billion (2019)
Total assets Increase US$294.82 billion (2019)
Total equity Increase US$116.23 billion (2019)
Number of employees 57,672 (2019)
They seem to be doing fairly well for a company operating at a loss.
‘'Political tip! Don't stand in front of a bluescreen if you're in the middle of crashing the country.’'
[...]The video, which shows Truss opening her speech against a backdrop of snaking food bank queues, sewage spewing into the sea, patients on trolleys in hospital corridors and graphs showing the increase in household bills and the falling pound, was accompanied by the words: “Political tip! Don’t stand in front of a bluescreen if you’re in the middle of crashing the country.”
Viewed 1.5m times since, Kennedy Ryan says the group wanted to create mischief (“there’s a lot of nuances to political communications, but winding up the other side is just great”) but – like all political design – there was a serious message. “We wanted to juxtapose this incredibly managed and polished impression that they were trying to present with the stark reality of what’s actually happening in this country,” he says.
I admit the shenanigans have been fun to watch from over here. If you guys can just make it about five times worse, maybe you'll be able to catch up with the political disfunction we have here in the US.
I'm beyond wanting to talk about it. But that CGI 'bomb' cheered me up, no end
Well, obviously I'm too mature to wallow in such partisan squalor. On the other hand, when I find out a strongly anti-abortion Republican candidate for the US Senate paid for his girlfriends abortion in 2009, I can't help but cackle a bit.
Reply to T Clark
Humour is one way to cope with all the shenanigans.
But my core sometimes shakes with anger, never before felt.
Good Luck to us all... :sparkle:
I guarantee you will be putting getting old into practice whether you want to or not.
I prefer to not guarantee anything. It is perfectly possible to see me dead in five years with just 30 years old. A lot of people die young for many reasons.
I prefer to not guarantee anything. It is perfectly possible to see me dead in five years with just 30 years old. A lot of people die young for many reasons.
I'll tell you what I tell my children - you can die whenever you like, but not till after I'm gone.
They've all lost their immediacy, intensity, franticness. I've always been a pretty angry, anxious person. Those have probably faded the most.
I think it's not just age. @javi2541997 is right.
Your life practice would seem to be rooted in certain kinds of wisdom.
Come on. It won't kill ya to admit it :wink:
Reply to Amity Clark is right: the intensity of emotions may fade as one gets old and it's been a tremendous relief. The thermostat has been lowered for rage, lust, chagrin, consumer desire, anxiousness. fear, regret (well, maybe), ambition, melancholy, and so on. There are fewer urges to to ride herd on. It isn't wisdom, it's aging.
While we are on the topic, "Wisdom does not necessarily increase with age." There are some wise young people. I wasn't one of them, but they are out there. Some aging politicians exhibit wisdom; many of them exhibit compounded stupidity.
My observation is that women tend to mellow with age and men grow ornerier. I'm definitely on the ornery side of the curve and my wife on the mellower. Had we met earlier, maybe she'd have been too intense and me too chill, but now the burden is on her for figuring me out and I can do my routine griping about traffic, crowds, the temperature, service at restaurants, the cost of chicken, things like that.
Have you ever gotten really mad at a piece of yard equipment and thrown it into the creek, only to watch it spinning through the air, wishing you could take that back?
I did that in my youth. Now I don't fucking try to do the lawn. It's just going to grow back and piss me off more.
Thinking it'd be fun to stage a production of Waiting for Godot where you add in Barney at the end bursting through the back wall saying, "Hey, kids! It's time for Godot!" LIGHTSOUT
Reply to Jamal Sorry; there are always exceptions. One sister (79) is more anxious and bothered than ever--right winger; next sister up (82) is as driven to perfection as ever. Capitalist. The oldest living sister (83) is pretty stable; she has a thing for large lawn tractors and lawn mowing. Her politics are unclear; she may have voted for Trump. Last living brother is 82, twin of the perfectionist, seems pretty laid back these days. Paleoconservative.
I looked for some Scottish restaurants in Atlanta and nothing came up except for a bunch of pubs with Scottish sounding names. I don't really think Scottish people only eat burgers and chicken wings, so I'm doubting whether those restaurants are authentic.
Atlanta is a foodie city, so I'm wondering why the Scots haven't planted their flag here. We have a bunch of Irish pubs, but that's as close as we get. I wanted to try out my Scottish slang on the wait staff, but I'll have to wait for another day to tell them to get their bawsack over to my table and bring me my fecking beer.
I guess I'll eat me some Italian food tonight. I was going to go to the steak place next door, but the first reservation is at 9:00 p.m., which is stupid. I like to go to places where they ask "do you have a reservation," and when I say no, they seat me anyway. Those places like to think they're important, but they're not.
It's a pretty nice Italian place. I think I'll get the meatball sub. They have Strombolis and Calzones, but no one actually knows the difference.
They have Strombolis and Calzones, but no one actually knows the difference.
There is a common misconception that strombolis and calzones are traditional Italian dishes. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both were developed in the late 1980s in the US as a response to the popularity of Hot Pockets brand Italianoid sandwich product.
I'm wondering why the Scots haven't planted their flag here
Maybe their native food just isn't that great? The Norwegians aren't eating Lutefisk in Norway because it is disgusting to normal palates. The descendants of Norwegian immigrants eat it as an act of Lutheran contrition.
universenessOctober 08, 2022 at 09:33#7464970 likes
I wanted to try out my Scottish slang on the wait staff, but I'll have to wait for another day to tell them to get their bawsack over to my table and bring me my fecking beer.
Naebody here says 'bawsack,' ya bawbag! and 'feck,' is Irish. I just stole it from father Ted.
javi2541997October 08, 2022 at 11:07#7465230 likes
I am watching 1990 film The Godfather part III. The last time I saw it was in 2010 when my parents brought me to a cinema to watch the “20th anniversary”. Good memories. I don’t understand why the epilogue of The Godfather is underrated. It is co-written with Mario Puzo, the original author and I think it is a good work of both Coppola and Puzo.
Reply to javi2541997 I'm going to show my rough aesthetic side here and say I just thought it was kind of boring. Thinking about it after I could justify things, but watching it I was simply un-interested. And comparing that to the first two movies is a big disappointment.
It is true that the film can be boring because it is different from the first two movies. Nevertheless, I think an epilogue was necessary to the story because many fans were debating what would happen to Michael Corleone with the past of the years. We, as fans, deserved the definitive final of the Corleone family. It was ok, but yes not as good as the performance with Brando, De Niro and Al Pacino.
Reply to javi2541997 I saw Godfather 3 in 1991. Didn't much like it but I found all the Godfather movies turgid and rather dull. The fetishization of 'mafia' people has never appealed to me.
javi2541997October 09, 2022 at 04:26#7466910 likes
The fetishization of 'mafia' people has never appealed to me.
Rather than fetishization it looks like Coppola shows them as “heroes” fighting against enemies of the state. I never read the original book of Mario Puzo, probably it has another sense.
Reply to javi2541997 Not referring to Coppola, I'm referring to the audience's endless fascination for stylized Mafia thugs and criminals. :wink:
javi2541997October 09, 2022 at 05:30#7467030 likes
Reply to Tom Storm That’s true! Similar to the weird obsession with the figure of Pablo Escobar when he was a dangerous killer in the the society of Colombia.
Then you should be able to find and show a pair of boxer shorts called bawsacks.
If it was a common term used in Glesga then some Capitalist bawbag would have tried to make money from it by now!
universenessOctober 09, 2022 at 09:05#7467290 likes
[b]Irish English
The most popular and widespread modern use of the term is as a slang expletive in Irish English, employed as a less serious alternative to the expletive "fuck" to express disbelief, surprise, pain, anger, or contempt. It notably lacks the sexual connotations that "fuck" has, but can otherwise be used to replace "fuck" in any other way—this includes terms such as "fecking", "fecked", "feck off", etc.
It is also used as Irish slang meaning "throw" (e.g. "he fecked the remote control across the table at me".)
It has also been used as a verb meaning "to steal" (e.g. "they had fecked cash out of the rector's room") or to discover a safe method of robbery or cheating.
Scots and Late Middle English
"Feck" is a form of effeck, which is in turn the Scots cognate of the modern English word effect. However, this Scots noun has additional significance:
Efficacy; force; value; return
Amount; quantity (or a large amount/quantity)
The greater or larger part (when used with a definite article)
From the first sense can be derived "feckless", meaning witless, weak, or ineffective. "Feckless" remains a part of Modern English and Scottish English, and appears in a number of Scottish adages:
"Feckless folk are aye fain o ane anither."
"Feckless fools should keep canny tongues."
In his 1881 short story Thrawn Janet, Robert Louis Stevenson invokes the second sense of "feck" as cited above:
"He had a feck o' books wi' him—mair than had ever been seen before in a' that presbytery..."
Robert Burns uses the third sense of "feck" in the final stanza of his 1792 poem "Kellyburn Braes":
I hae been a Devil the feck o' my life,
Hey, and the rue grows bonie wi' thyme;
"But ne'er was in hell till I met wi' a wife,"
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime[/b]
universenessOctober 09, 2022 at 18:38#7467830 likes
Reply to Hanover
:smile: That's feckin fair enough!
I kinda still prefer saying 'oh for freaks sake,' to 'oh for feck sake or f*ck sake.'
I also like the more mysterious origins of the term 'freak.'
[b]
Unknown Origin, but possibly:
[freak (n.1)
1560s, "sudden and apparently causeless turn of mind," of unknown origin. Perhaps it is from a dialectal survival of a word related to Middle English friken "to move nimbly or briskly," from Old English frician "to dance" [OED, Barnhart]. There is a freking attested in mid-15c., apparently meaning "capricious behavior, whims." Or perhaps from Middle English frek "eager, zealous, bold, brave, fierce" (see freak (n.2 below)).
The sense of "capricious notion" (1560s) and that of "unusual thing, fancy" (1784) preceded that of "abnormally developed individual or production" (first attested in freak of nature, 1839, which later was popular in variety show advertisements for bearded ladies, albinos, etc.; compare Latin lusus naturæ, which was used in English from 1660s). As "drug user" (usually appended to the name of the drug) it attested by 1945. The sense in health freak, ecology freak, etc. is attested from 1908 (originally Kodak freak "a camera buff"). Freak show is attested from 1887.
freak (v.)
"change, distort," 1911, from freak (n.1). Earlier, "to streak or fleck randomly" (1630s). Related: Freaked; freaking.
freak (n.2)
"brave man, warrior," Scottish freik, from Middle English freke "a bold man, a warrior, a man," from Old English freca "bold man, a warrior," from frec "greedy, eager, bold" (compare German frech "bold, impudent")./b]
I am watching 1990 film The Godfather part III. The last time I saw it was in 2010 when my parents brought me to a cinema to watch the “20th anniversary”. Good memories. I don’t understand why the epilogue of The Godfather is underrated. It is co-written with Mario Puzo, the original author and I think it is a good work of both Coppola and Puzo.
I saw Godfather 3 in 1991. Didn't much like it but I found all the Godfather movies turgid and rather dull. The fetishization of 'mafia' people has never appealed to me.
I have no particular strong interest in the Mafia, but it is an interesting phenomenon. I think GF1 and G2 were good movies. Well written and very well acted. For me, watching corruption pouring down over Michael like molasses was powerful and had the ring of truth. I didn't see GF3, probably because of how disturbing I found the view of human nature in the first two. I didn't like that view, but as I said, it had the ring of truth.
A movie I loved is "Goodfellas." A lot of my reaction was similar to the GFs, but Ray Liotta knocked my socks off. That blue-eyed, cocaine-fueled intensity was compelling. Joe Pesci was great - repellant and terrifying. And then there's "Layla."
javi2541997October 09, 2022 at 20:10#7467940 likes
Oh yes, that's another great film. Martin Scorse made an excellent work showing other story about Mafia. Despite the plot and actors are good, I think the characters are cocky gangsters :rofl:
I prefer the classy gentlemen of The Godfather.
Ray Liotta did a great performance in the movie. I really felt sorry when he passed away some months ago... he was one of the my favourite actors.
Ray Liotta did a great performance in the movie. I really felt sorry when he passed away some months ago... he was one of the my favourite actors.
I really liked Liotta too. The two movies I remember seeing him in were "Goodfellas" and "Something Wild." In both he had a spine-tingling intensity. Danger disguised, badly, with charm.
I like all those movies, Godfather 1, 2 (and 3 to a lesser extent) but also Goodfellas, Casino and Heat. And how about True Romance, the latter comprised of so many great scenes it never gets old. I am a fan of violence when come to think of it allthough I also like many animated movies and even a lot of romantic pieces.
I'm currently quarantined going through the fourth time in a year and allthough it sucks every time again only the first time I felt thus bad I didnt care for life much anymore. The headache was totally something else than I ever had to experience those first few days and afterwards being deprived of smell and taste also didnt do much good for a general mood.
fascination for stylized Mafia thugs and criminals.
Imo, Mafia thugs are no different from gangsters like Alexander the Great (pig). Every Roman Emperor, almost every King who ever existed, Most popes, queens, aristos, etc, etc all the way towards characters like Trump today. All gangsters.
I don't mind films where most or all of the gangsters die by the end of the movie, like in my fav gangster film 'Scarface' with Al Pacino. In real life it doesn't often happen that way. Some of them become the beginning of long-lasting dynasties or the gang leaders intermarry with the leaders of other gangs and, as a family, rule the whole of Europe etc. I like the word dynasty. A word that sounds quite apt as the idea of dy nasty (or a nasty death) is quite apt towards their many victims and often even their own fate.
Just like wee Tony in 'Scarface.'
Reply to universeness I hear you. You left out the biggest thug and gangster: Yahweh. It's just personal taste, for me. Generally I don't find movie and TV gangsters interesting subjects.
I'm referring to the audience's endless fascination for stylized Mafia thugs and criminals. :wink:
Sicilians who came to America experienced discrimination and resorted to creating self governing enclaves where the thugs you refer to acted to protect their communities. They sometimes engaged in illegal activities. Stuff it if you don't like it.
I wonder why you need to respond with invective, Frank. Watching too many gangster films?
universenessOctober 09, 2022 at 22:24#7468240 likes
Reply to Tom Storm
I don't tend to include that which I am convinced has never existed, but I totally agree, anyone who deep down inside, respects gangsters, are part of the problem.
universenessOctober 09, 2022 at 22:30#7468250 likes
I wonder why you need to respond with invective, Frank. Watching too many gangster films?
Be careful Tom, perhaps his real name is Frank (The tank) D'Angelo, Bonanno Colombo Gambino Genovese Lucchese Julius Alexander Napoleon Ceasar Hitler Windsor Bampot.
universenessOctober 09, 2022 at 22:46#7468340 likes
Reply to Tom Storm
Frank has such an innocent childlike profile pic as well?
I think he believes that:
They won't remember what you said, they won't remember what you did, but they'll never forget the way you made them feel. You need to stop making people feel stuff Tom. Oh the pressure! Just to make a better world! Stop it Tom! You are scaring poor innocent gangsters everywhere!
It's not "the standard view," it's how I feel about those movies, how I experienced them. I know myself well enough to know my opinions are not influenced significantly by others opinions. I remember what it felt like when I saw the movies.
I certainly have no problem with you feeling differently, or even criticizing my way of seeing it. We've participated in discussions about art together. I've often acknowledged that my responses are mine and not some universal truth.
Reply to T Clark I was just observing that your opinion comports with the standard assessment of these films - not that you were copying others. There's a reason the films are popular - they appeal to a wide range of people.
I was just observing that your opinion comports with the standard assessment of these films - not that you were copying others. There's a reason the films are popular - they appeal to a wide range of people.
Yes, I was sure of that, but still my hackles rose. I'm feeling better now.
Sicilians who came to America experienced discrimination and resorted to creating self governing enclaves where the thugs you refer to acted to protect their communities. They sometimes engaged in illegal activities. Stuff it if you don't like it.
My guess is that this is simplistic and romantic, perhaps even complete bollocks. My sketchy understanding is that the mafia primarily exploited, intimidated, and targeted other Italian immigrants. That is, they terrorized, rather than protected, their own communities.
If this is a fabrication spread by unfriendly media, I'd like to see the evidence. Unless you mean "protected" in the mafia sense, of course.
Reply to Tom Storm I thought The Godfather was great; I could barely stand watching Goodfellahs. I loved the Sopranos.
The Pope of Greenwich Village was a good take on 'the underworlish scene'.
The Pope of Greenwich Village is a 1984 American crime black comedy film directed by Stuart Rosenberg and starring Mickey Rourke, Eric Roberts, Daryl Hannah, Geraldine Page, Kenneth McMillan and Burt Young. Page was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Supporting Actress for her two-scene role. The film was adapted by screenwriter Vincent Patrick from his novel of the same name.
Black Comedy? I don't remember it that way; I should see it again -- It's been a long time, I enjoyed it when I saw it. But... a young man having his thumb cut off as punishment? Or giving the boss a cup of lye instead of espresso (which he gulped, then staggered out of the coffee shop in agony)? Black alright, but not so comic.
I appreciate the pace and the performances of Godfathers one and two, but I find them claustrophobic and unpleasant. I like Goodfellas more.
The gangster film I've been most fascinated with is "Once Upon a Time in America", although my affection for it fluctuates as the years go by. I think I found it fascinating originally because, to me at least, the idea of Jewish gangsters was fresh and exotic.
I think it is true that many immigrant groups, be they Italian, Finnish, Jewish, or... tended to form tight communities glued together by custom, memory, and language. They turned to each other because their countrymen were their community. It might look like some sort of group-defense, but was more just "stick with your own kind".
Most of the large immigrant groups, the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc. included criminal elements who preyed on their own people -- who else? A Russian Jew wasn't going to have an easy time of passing himself off as a Gaelic countryman from the old sod. He wouldn't look or sound the part.
The Italian crime families came to the US to find new pastures in which to be crooks. Who made better prey than their countrymen? (Though as time went on, the crime families branched out to provide 'services" to other cultural groups--i.e., new revenue streams.)
the idea of Jewish gangsters was fresh and exotic.
Old Bugsy Siegel was instrumental in the creation of Las Vegas. The Jews were just as good at organized crime as the Italians (Bernie Madoff didn't take a back seat to anybody).
The Jews had operations in New York City and its metropolitan area, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, New Jersey, Orlando, Washington D.C.
Their operations included Narcotics trafficking, Racketeering, Gambling, Loan sharking, Murder, Accounting, Diamond trafficking, extortion, Weapons trafficking, Fraud, Prostitution, Smuggling, and Money laundering--the usual assortment.
The Jewish crooks tended to work with the Russian crooks and Israeli crooks.
Reply to Bitter Crank Yes, I'm more aware of that history now than I was at the time I first watched the film, when my main reference point for Jewish American culture was Woody Allen.
javi2541997October 10, 2022 at 05:44#7469180 likes
javi2541997October 10, 2022 at 06:25#7469270 likes
Reply to Jamal No! I am only exalting the power of George Soros. That's not antisemitic. It is a fact he rules the geopolitical world along with other powerful groups, not only Jews
About Sicilian discrimination:
"Sicilian emigration to the United States grew substantially starting in the 1880s to 1914, when it was cut off by World War I. Many Sicilians planned to return home after a few years making money in the United States, but the wartime delay allowed many to assimilate into better jobs and wartime experience, so they did not return. By 1924, about 4,000,000 Sicilians emigrated to the US.[3] The Emergency Quota Act, and the subsequent Immigration Act of 1924 sharply reduced immigration from Southern Europe except for relatives of Sicilians already in the U.S.[4] This period saw political and economic shifts in Sicily that made emigration desirable. There was also a large wave of immigration after World War II. A great portion of the Sicilian immigrants would settle in New York City, New Jersey, New Haven, Buffalo, Rochester, Erie, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Pittston, Johnston, Rhode Island, Detroit, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Orleans, Milwaukee, and Birmingham.
"During the 1800s, Italian Americans, particularly Sicilians, were often not considered “white.”[5] Upon immigration, many were required to list their race as “Southern Italian” or “Sicilian” rather than white.[6] In certain parts of the South during the Jim Crow era, Sicilian even more so than Italians generally were affected by its discriminatory policies. Sicilians were sometimes more prone to discrimination than other Mediterranean groups (such as Northern Italians or Greeks). This led to one of the most notable hate crimes against Sicilian Americans, which was the trial of nineteen Sicilian immigrants for the murder of New Orleans police chief David Hennessy in 1890, which trial ended in the lynching of eleven of them by a white vigilante group.". Sicilian Americans
About the function of "mafias":
"In his analysis of the Sicilian Mafia, Gambetta provided the following hypothetical scenario to illustrate the Mafia's function in the Sicilian economy. Suppose a grocer wants to buy meat from a butcher without paying sales tax to the government. Because this is a black market deal, neither party can take the other to court if the other cheats. The grocer is afraid that the butcher will sell him rotten meat. The butcher is afraid that the grocer will not pay him. If the butcher and the grocer can't get over their mistrust and refuse to trade, they would both miss out on an opportunity for profit. Their solution is to ask the local mafioso to oversee the transaction, in exchange for a fee proportional to the value of the transaction but below the legal tax. If the butcher cheats the grocer by selling rotten meat, the mafioso will punish the butcher. If the grocer cheats the butcher by not paying on time and in full, the mafioso will punish the grocer. Punishment might take the form of a violent assault or vandalism against property. The grocer and the butcher both fear the mafioso, so each honors their side of the bargain. All three parties profit". Mafia
javi2541997October 10, 2022 at 06:54#7469340 likes
Reply to Jamal of doing what? Are you going to recriminate me the Reconquista of Ferdinand and Isabella? The Castilians were mixed with some Jews anyway...
It is a fact that the Jewish community controls a big part of Western banks and interests. They hold a lot of power and there always been "there" controlling the world using the power. I am not a "Neo-Nazi" if I say this.
Reply to javi2541997 It may be the case that you’re not personally antisemitic, but the idea that Jews control the banking system and the world is indeed part of a whole suite of antisemitic conspiracy theories, so I suggest you drop it.
javi2541997October 10, 2022 at 07:13#7469370 likes
Reply to Jamal I say sorry if you felt personally attacked.
Jews control the banking system and the world is indeed part of a whole suite of antisemitic conspiracy theories,
It is not a conspiracy, it is a fact. But don't worry I will not keep discussing this issue because whenever I am not agree with some points I feel like a "fascist" member.
But don't worry I will not keep discussing this issue
Good plan.
javi2541997October 10, 2022 at 07:32#7469420 likes
Reply to Jamal Ok, you are right, I should check more credible sources.
This is what I said a lot of times when some users attacked my nation because of 1492. I said "please read other views and other sources..." but these members didn't do it. That's "bigotry" on Spanish culture too... (But it is ok to hate a Western bloody country, right?)
As I said previously, our discussion finishes here. I am sorry if you wasted your time with me.
Speaking of ethnicity, I ordered a kit from Ancestry.com and I spit into a tube, and then I sent it off. It came back and told me my ethnicity is: "Jewish peoples of Europe 100%, Jews in Belarus and Ukraine."
Total bullshit. I live in Georgia. They could have just looked at my address and would have gotten that right.
It also did a search for other family members who had entered their data, and it turns out that I'm very closely related to my brother and uncle.
I learned nothing, although it would have been funny if this is how I would have learned I was adopted. Not haha funny, but fucked up funny.
My wife is still waiting for her results. Hers will be more interesting because she's crazy diverse, probably having Scotch, Irish, and even English genes. It'll probably just say 100% British Isles, but, who knows, maybe there's some Germanic in there.
Speaking of ethnicity, I ordered a kit from Ancestry.com and I spit into a tube, and then I sent it off. It came back and told me my ethnicity is: "Jewish peoples of Europe 100%, Jews in Belarus and Ukraine."
Speaking of fucked up funny - when I did it, I found out I am very closely related to Donald Trump Jr.
As long as you weren't related to his father, that's probably ok.
Yes, I thought about that, but went ahead anyway. As I've noted in other posts, Donald Trump Jr. is and always will be funny, even the 1,000th time I use him in a joke. Much funnier than his father.
As long as you weren't related to his father, that's probably ok.
Speaking of my brother, he always responds to these sorts of comments by pointing out how they can't be true, like he'll say "he had to be related to his father if he was related to his son," or he'll say things like "you couldn't have forgotten your car keys at home if you drove here" like if I told him I left my car keys at home.
So then what I do is that I'll say what doesn't make sense and then I tell him how he's going to correct me before he can get it out of his mouth, and then I'll laugh at him for not realizing I knew it didn't make sense before I said it. Then he'll say "that's stupid," and then I'll say "you're stupid." This has been going on for over 50 years, about as long as I could talk.
So then what I do is that I'll say what doesn't make sense and then I tell him how he's going to correct me before he can get it out of his mouth, and then I'll laugh at him for not realizing I knew it didn't make sense before I said it. Then he'll say "that's stupid," and then I'll say "you're stupid." This has been going on for over 50 years, about as long as I could talk.
To bring an unnecessarily serious point to your ironic paean to brotherhood, my brother and I didn't really become friends until we were in our late 50s.
Sorry you had to wait so long for this response. It was really hard to figure out how to spell "paean." It's p, a, e, a, n. There, show that to your brother and see what he says.
Sorry you had to wait so long for this response. It was really hard to figure out how to spell "paean." It's p, a, e, a, n. There, show that to your brother and see what he says.
If you tell him over the phone, it won't be as funny.
Most Ashkenazi Jews are descended from European women.
Yeah, well my mom was from Georgia, so I don't know what all this European talk is about. If she was European I wouldn't have been able to understand her, or she at least would have had a crazy accent, but she talked totally normal, just like everyone else.
To bring an unnecessarily serious point to your ironic paean to brotherhood, my brother and I didn't really become friends until we were in our late 50s.
My brother and I still aren't friends. He's stupid.
Speaking of ethnicity, I ordered a kit from Ancestry.com and I spit into a tube, and then I sent it off. It came back and told me my ethnicity is: "Jewish peoples of Europe 100%, Jews in Belarus and Ukraine."
I re-read this and it pisses me off. I spit in a tube and they called me a Jew. That just doesn't sound right at all, but that's quite literally what happened. I'm going to write someone somewhere about this.
My brother got one of those DNA tests, and he reasonably claimed that whatever was found in his DNA would apply to me too. We had recently discovered that a great great grandfather of ours was a guy called Levi, a tailor in Leeds, so my brother was excited about finding some Jewish ancestry written in his molecules, but the results came back 100% Northern European. English, Celtic, Scandinavian, etc. He was quite disappointed. Our grandmother was probably adopted, which could explain the discrepancy.
On the one hand, I'm not worried about you being a neo-nazi; you might not be quite right about the dominance of Jews in banking. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of information about it.
Here is a list of Jewish bigwigs in American banking from Wikipedia. It seems like a long list, but the American banking and finance sector is very large. There are 8,000,000+ people working in this sector. The 5 largest banks in the US--JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, and US Bankcorp--are worth about 9 trillion+ dollars.
Why is there even a list of Jewish people in banking? I didn't find a list of Catholic bankers at the top of the Google results. (There is, however... Thrivant For Lutherans is 332 in the Fortune 500 list. It's worth a measly $134 billion (it's a "holistic" financial services company for Lutheran church members).
A study done by the nonpartisan wealth research firm New World Wealth found that 56.2% of the 13.1 million millionaires in the world were Christians, while 6.5% were Muslims, 3.9% were Hindu, and 1.7% were Jewish; 31.7% were identified as adherents of "other" religions or "not religious".
On the other hand https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_American_businesspeople_in_finance says
Whatever the exact figure, it is clear that Jews are over-represented among the world’s wealthiest people. This may be due to a combination of factors, including historical factors, cultural factors, and geographical factors.
More than 30% of Americas top 100 richest people are Jewish, and the Forbes 400 is home to an additional 139 Jews. Every year, Wal-Mart generates $22 billion in revenue, making it one of the world’s largest companies. Technology spending has risen from $2 billion to $9 billion. Bezos, the founder of Amazon, has a net worth of $177 billion. Dan Gilbert, the owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers, is ranked 23rd among world billionaires by Forbes in 2021. Swiss millionaires grew to 15% of adults in 2020, making it the second-richest country in the world.
So, no matter where you go, there you are. I still don't know how "truthy" all this is.
I thought Judaism's association with banking came from the fact that in medieval times in Europe Jews were forbidden to practice many professions and Christians were not allowed to be money lenders.
On the one hand, I'm not worried about you being a neo-nazi; you might not be quite right about the dominance of Jews in banking. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of information about it.
The issue isn't so much the empirical question of whether there are a good number of Jewish people who are bankers, but more the question of whether Jews act together to control the banking industry in order to control the world. There is a difference, for example, in asking if a bunch of Jews happen to be doctors due to that being a cultural norm versus asking if Jews are trying to control the health and well being of the world so that they dominate the world.
I know you're not suggesting this conspiracy stuff, but it is part of the anti-Semitic rhetoric to suggest that Jews get together and control the world for the sake of other Jews. To the extent there are those who do believe Jews are orchestrating world events as part of a Jewish conspiracy to control the world for the sake of Jews, that is a Nazi notion, and I think the term "neo-Nazi" would be applicable to that person.
We had recently discovered that a great great grandfather of ours was a guy called Levi, a tailor in Leeds, so my brother was excited about finding some Jewish ancestry written in his molecules, but the results came back 100% Northern European. English, Celtic, Scandinavian, etc. He was quite disappointed.
He should be disappointed. The name Levi signifies he was possibly a Levite, from the tribe of Levi, and therefore a priest. He would have been in charge of burnt offerings and the like, working directly with the Big Man.
That great great grandpappy JamalLevi was a tailor makes sense as well, considering Levi's is a name of pants. That's more a thing of more recent invention though, so that sounds like a coincidence. Or is it???
I re-read this and it pisses me off. I spit in a tube and they called me a Jew. That just doesn't sound right at all, but that's quite literally what happened. I'm going to write someone somewhere about this.
Mitochondrial evidence shows that at least 80% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from families where a Jewish man married a European woman (like a German woman.)
Mitochondrial evidence shows that at least 80% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from families where a Jewish man married a European woman (like a German woman.)
I have blue eyes, so I have long since thought an Aryan jumped the fence and begot eventually me.
Mitochondrial evidence shows that at least 80% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from families where a Jewish man married a European woman (like a German woman.)
The problem with this is that if the Jewish man married a non-Jewish woman, then the offspring isn't Jewish, so the 80% of Ashkenazi Jews you reference aren't Jews. What am I missing?
But it didn't show up in the DNA test. If you had a daughter or sister, I wonder if it would show up in their test.
I know. It's weird. My father's side of the family is entirely brown hair and brown eyes. All of them. My mother had blue eyes and her side looks more Germanic than my father's. My father must have had a recessive blue eyed gene that never expressed on his side of the family.
I really thought some Germanic genes would have shown up, although the test was very accurate. I knew my family was from what is now Ukraine, so that was impressive.
The problem with this is that if the Jewish man married a non-Jewish woman, then the offspring isn't Jewish, so the 80% of Ashkenazi Jews you reference aren't Jews. What am I missing?
Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be descendants of Roman Jews who spread eastward. Apparently it was usually just men who wandered out and settled down with native Germanic women. If the women converted, wouldn't the children be Jewish?
Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be descendants of Roman Jews who spread eastward. Apparently it was usually just men who wandered out and settled down with native Germanic women. If the women converted, wouldn't the children be Jewish?
If they converted. Was that going on in high numbers at the time?
In keeping with tradition, I also wandered out and settled down with a Germanic woman and both my kids have blonde hair and blue eyes.
Reply to Hanover Marks & Spencer and Burton, the go-to clothing emporiums of my youth, were also founded by Polish and Lithuanian Jews who found fame and success in Leeds, so old greatgreatgrandpappy Levi was in good company, just a lot less successful.
Levi Strauss, who you alluded to, was really good at making jeans and doing structuralist anthropology.
I thought Judaism's association with banking came from the fact that in medieval times in Europe Jews were forbidden to practice many professions and Christians were not allowed to be money lenders.
I think that is true, BUT the banking operations of medieval Jews likely were not continuous into the 21st century. The Rothschilds, for example, began business in the 18th century. They made a shekel here, a shekel there, and put them in a little tin box which a little tin key unlocked. Eventually, they had a lot of shekels. [During a court hearing, the judge inquired how they had gotten so much money, They answered that "It mounted up your honor bit by bit." This is from a skit in the musical, Fiorello, about the NYC mayor.]
The credit needs of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars greatly enriched the Rothschilds. Fortunes have to begin somewhere.
According to the mitochondrial DNA, it happened quite a bit.
I'm not sure what my whoring ancestors might have done, but ancestry.com says I'm a purebred. The rest of you guys are common sad eyed pound mutts.
The only thing that makes me question my purebrededness is my gargantuan tree trunk sized trouser warrior. Such appendages typically were found only on monsters of old, before the gods stopped mating with mortals. I think I got some of that forsaken blood coursing through my veins, and such is not the blood from my forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The last person with such a condition was Levi Strauss, the anthropologist, not the pantologist.
Their appendages were reduced through the mitzvah of bris milah. If you knew anything, such was the reason was for the commandment. Not only did it reduce the girth to a manageable level, but it made the member most handsome.
Would you be able, or willing, to condense, or transform, the story into a poem?
Probably unable, certainly unwilling.
Why do you ask? There are such things as narrative poems, poems that tell a story. Maybe the nearest I've come to appreciating a narrative poem is when I was sixteen and listening to Iron Maiden's musical version of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner".
I don't know if I'd be able to recast my stories in poetic form, but I am willing to take a stab at recasting them in expressive dance. Let me find my unitard.
Their appendages were reduced through the mitzvah of bris milah. If you knew anything, such was the reason was for the commandment. Not only did it reduce the girth to a manageable level, but it made the member most handsome.
Well that makes sense, except it seems like God could have made it the correct size to begin with.
Maybe the nearest I've come to appreciating a narrative poem is when I was sixteen and listening to Iron Maiden's musical version of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner".
I've been thinking about poetry - and my recent exchange with @javi2541997about haiku.
Then, I seemed to recall that some Japanese prose was accompanied by a haiku 'summary'.
Haibun.
A short story engages the reader’s mind in following the plot on both mental and emotional levels. In haibun, there is a similar following of storyline until a haiku is reached, causing a shift in the reader’s mind from simply reading a story to a sensing the writer’s haiku moment and thinking about its connection the story. In a way, the haiku works the way a metaphor does in a prose passage. It’s akin to looking at a photograph accompanying an essay and musing about its connection to the contents.
I don't know if I'd be able to recast my stories in poetic form, but I am willing to take a stab at recasting them in expressive dance. Let me find my unitard.
Coward. Let your moody nakedness flow...FEEL IT GROW!! :scream:
I like writing prose, but I'm not interested in writing poems. When I read a good piece of prose fiction I feel inspired to create, because I feel I have the power to do it. When I read a good poem—which is not often—I can appreciate it and yet feel it’s something best left to others. I have no urge to do it myself.
Reply to Jamal
Fair enough.
It does lie in what inspires you. Or what you are open to...
I thought it might be a challenge to the mind; to think or express in a different way.
Perhaps as a complement to the story. As per the earlier Rasmussen quote:
...causing a shift in the reader’s mind from simply reading a story to a sensing the writer’s haiku moment and thinking about its connection the story. In a way, the haiku works the way a metaphor does in a prose passage. It’s akin to looking at a photograph accompanying an essay and musing about its connection to the contents.
Of course, not every writer might have a 'haiku' moment.
A snapshot encompassing the thought or feel. A single flash.
Who knows - a reader might comment on a story in 3 lines...?
Save a lot of writing. Might give it a go...or not.
Reply to Amity Yeh, not all writers of novels and short stories write poetry too. Maybe many of the best ones do, but I’m guessing many other greats didn’t.
Interesting challenge though, for those who feel the urge.
[...] My own body of work, though, consists of writing across all literary genres, and I find the constant shift from poetry to prose, from prose to drama, from drama to children’s books, and back to poetry again challenging and important to my development and growth as a writer.
Yeah, quite the challenge to turn the mind...to develop and grow.
I think I could write a pretty good poem. I'll try one right here:
The Epic Ballad of the Man for Hanoveria
A man from Hanoveria, with a cock the size of a tree trunk, comes to our presence.
It swings pendulously in the wind, like a elephant trunk slightly severed near the tusk.
Shouldn't that be "an" elephant and not "a" elephant?
Yes, it should, and actually it'd have been better just to correct that instead of asking it in the poem.
Blood pours profusely down the elephant's mouth, although there isn't actually an elephant but the elephant was just being used as a simile to describe the cock, yet now I'm telling you about the elephant as if he actually exists.
Who is this "I" being referenced? Is it the man from Hanoveria?
I'm not sure?
Who's not sure?
Me.
His cock crashes into teeth, furniture, and small animal life.
A raccoon goes missing.
Is he preparing to dance?
Stand back!
The cock it mocks, menaces, and trolls.
What do you mean it trolls?
Isn't that a computer forum word?
Why do you keep asking questions in the middle of this poem?
I don't know. It seems funny, but maybe it's just typical Hanover can't keep focused on thought shit.
You think?
Maybe.
The dance it begins.
"You can tell by the way I walk, I'm a woman's man no time to talk."
Like the taste of apple pie, the sound of the Bee Gees fills the room.
How can a taste fill a room?
What?
How can a taste fill a room?
I heard you the first time.
The cock it inch worms and crawls out the door.
Into the street it slithers, leaving gestation in its path.
Babies emerge, lactation sprays forth, life springs eternal!
And he sits head in hands on the park bench, feeding the pigeons, wondering when the next bus will come.
I cannot speak of genitalia for we all have a pair and some a crevice.
What I can speak and to admire your fair tits in my hand acquire. And if your cat your pussycat was to meow and then to purr I’d give you a pet my cockerel to you and then to her.
And if this was not enough my fair mistress I’d marry you quickly then divorce you twice as fast if I found out your crevice was formerly a trunk with which you used to spunk
Why do you keep asking questions in the middle of this poem?
I don't know. It seems funny, but maybe it's just typical Hanover can't keep focused on thought shit.
You think?
Maybe.
I keep finding bits I like. You think? Maybe...
It all chimes if not rhymes with the awareness thingy going down...
Tis not dirty I said it so in an orgy all shall go.
Those who come and came before will be tired
And head for the door.
Those who can’t come at all shall keep on going
Till they drop on the floor.
And as the woman moan with glee it turns out
Soon all pregnant they all shall be.
If I didn’t know my dad and through s grapevine heard of this circumstance I’d shout with joy and not with sorrow my mums a whore and my dad more so.
And he sits head in hands on the park bench, feeding the pigeons, wondering when the next bus will come.
Back to reality. The poet as.
The detached onlooker.
Lonely like Eleanor Rigby.
Or an old lady singing ''Feed the birds, tuppence a bag''.
So sad :cry: :groan:
The dance. So cool :cool: :sparkle:
I was thinking about writing another poem, this time a typical tale of an infant that gets thrown under a bad guy in order to stop him, only to die and for the mother to not really care, and then have some mysterious woman enter the scene to try and clean it up, only to piss everyone off for some reason, and then the mother to take to cleaning as well.
With that idea in mind, I wrote this:
Taking the infant out from the basket
throwing it under the feet of the culprit
Her soft unformed skull squishing so sideways
forming the shape like a marshmallow shoe.
The mother relaxing now the man interrupted
but her baby lie dying like a broken balloon
Efforts at saving being ever so futile
baby debris all over the room.
The officer wrote down the time and location
being so certain and keeping it true
He talked to the witness and drew on the floorboard
then pulled out his weapon and fired it too.
As she finished her dying, a woman came running
with bleach on her hands and soap on her shoe
She cried out there wanting to know what need cleaning
holding her rag free and flagging the moon
The shocked people stopped before they departed
asking themselves who this woman might be
A young boy then up and he did then grab her
She spun and she punched until she was loose
The crowd circled round looking and staring
screaming and yelling at the fight that ensued.
She bit and she clawed and he went out yelling
before her elbow swung crashing and splashing so loudly
He fell back defeated, the crowd deeply saddened
throwing rocks and potatoes wherever the could
She fended them off and continued her cleaning
despite their best efforts to stop her too soon
When the room was all finished and the infant all buried
the lady stopped cleaning and walked out of the room.
The culprit stood humbly at the show that had ended
and the mother talked speechless as she held onto the broom.
I know what you guys are thinking. Another gem of a poem.
Reply to Hanover A regular rhyme scheme was not implemented, but the length of the lines fits the iambic tetrameter of the lines. The absurdity of the poem is maintained from start to end, and is consistent. Not too bad, really, apart from the psychotic content. I don't know whaat it means.
Billy Collins, Poet Laureate, says this about poetry and meaning:
I ask them to take a poem
and hold it up to the light
like a color slide
or press an ear against its hive.
I say drop a mouse into a poem
and watch him probe his way out,
or walk inside the poem's room
and feel the walls for a light switch.
I want them to waterski
across the surface of a poem
waving at the author's name on the shore.
But all they want to do
is tie the poem to a chair with rope
and torture a confession out of it.
They begin beating it with a hose
to find out what it really means.
Billy Collins teaches a poetry writing master class on line. Master classes are taught by masters. They don't make you a master, but they might make you into a monster. You could be like out dear Hanover, able to tap into the unspeakable in a light and lively manner. Always in demand.
I ask them to take a poem
and hold it up to the light
like a color slide
or press an ear against its hive.
I say drop a mouse into a poem
and watch him probe his way out,
or walk inside the poem's room
and feel the walls for a light switch.
I want them to waterski
across the surface of a poem
waving at the author's name on the shore.
But all they want to do
is tie the poem to a chair with rope
and torture a confession out of it.
They begin beating it with a hose
to find out what it really means.
Well said, Billy Collins.
This reminds me of the character Lotaria in Calvino's If on a winter's night a traveler. Lotaria is an academic who reads books with a theoretical agenda. She's interested in books only for their themes, which, she thinks, reveal what books really mean. She has nothing but contempt for her sister, who reads for enjoyment.
She talks to an author about his books. He relates the conversation:
I asked Lotaria if she has already read some books of mine that I lent her. She said no, because here she doesn’t have a computer at her disposal.
She explained to me that a suitably programmed computer can read a novel in a few minutes and record the list of all the words contained in the text, in order of frequency. “That way I can have an already completed reading at hand,” Lotaria says, “with an incalculable saving of time. What is the reading of a text, in fact, except the recording of certain thematic recurrences, certain insistences of forms and meanings? An electronic reading supplies me with a list of the frequencies, which I have only to glance at to form an idea of the problems the book suggests to my critical study. Naturally, at the highest frequencies the list records countless articles, pronouns, particles, but I don’t pay them any attention. I head straight for the words richest in meaning; they can give me a fairly precise notion of the book.”
The point of course is to show the philistinism of the purportedly sophisticated academic approach to literature. I watched a video the other day with some English professor saying that that he doesn't care much about plot, that he reads for the themes instead. I think this has seeped into popular consciousness, and that it's wrongheaded. As if those were the only two things available from a work of literature.
I keep meaning to start a discussion about this. Reading for entertainment is popularly opposed to reading that is in some way deeper, e.g., reading for themes, symbols, hidden meanings, messages, social commentary, etc. This annoys me, because an entertainment need not be formulaic or require only passive reading; looking for what a work of literature really means is not a more intelligent or enriching way to read it.
Reply to Jamal Taking a text apart to examine the language is an act very unfriendly to literature, or really, anything somebody has written. Most people hate having editors tamper with their texts. There are occasions when hostile acts are necessary.
I did some computer processing of texts back in the 1990s, but my aim wasn't to understand the text. My aim was to identify the differences between easy-to-read adult material and difficult-to-read material (by adult I mean books adults read) and state the differences in a way writers could use the information.
Full disclosure: the real theme of this textual research was figuring out how to make my new Macintosh computer do stuff. Once I figured out how to feed the computer a text and get it to parse it in a several ways, that project was finished. Yes, I did learn something about language, but mostly I learned about the computer. Nobody ever used what I discovered. Except me.
I was thinking about writing another poem, this time a typical tale of an infant that gets thrown under a bad guy in order to stop him, only to die and for the mother to not really care, and then have some mysterious woman enter the scene to try and clean it up, only to piss everyone off for some reason, and then the mother to take to cleaning as well.
With that idea in mind, I wrote this:
A typical tale. For you, perhaps? :wink:
Do you delight in expressing the dark side of the mind?
Taking the infant out from the basket
throwing it under the feet of the culprit
Her soft unformed skull squishing so sideways
forming the shape like a marshmallow shoe.
[Reminds me of your prize-winning TPF story:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11523/dead-baby-shoes-by-hanover ]
An unwanted baby. Perhaps the result of rape. The culprit still on the scene and threatening.
His baby used against him.
The mother relaxing now the man interrupted
but her baby lie dying like a broken balloon
Efforts at saving being ever so futile
baby debris all over the room.
The man stopped but at what cost? Infanticide. A messy room. We feel the hopelessness. Deflated.
The officer wrote down the time and location
being so certain and keeping it true
He talked to the witness and drew on the floorboard
then pulled out his weapon and fired it too.
A policeman 'keeping it true'? If that was the case, the mother would have been arrested.
Talked to only one witness. Where was the 'culprit'?
Why would the officer fire his weapon? Ah, not a gun. Perhaps another dick discharge?
A good deed done, indeed...the mother 'saved' by a favour...
As she finished her dying, a woman came running
with bleach on her hands and soap on her shoe
She cried out there wanting to know what need cleaning
holding her rag free and flagging the moon
The mother's soul 'dying' or a cleaning lady deleting a colour with bleach.
Reminds me of mafia killings and the crime-scene clean-up.
I'm not sure about the moon reference - symbolism - female energy, full moon madness...
The shocked people stopped before they departed
asking themselves who this woman might be
A young boy then up and he did then grab her
She spun and she punched until she was loose
Excited rubber-necking neighbours annoyed with the interference. Picked a fight with the wrong person.
Where were they hiding during domestic violence?
The crowd circled round looking and staring
screaming and yelling at the fight that ensued.
She bit and she clawed and he went out yelling
before her elbow swung crashing and splashing so loudly
I like this 'splashing' of more blood? Another clean-up.
He fell back defeated, the crowd deeply saddened
throwing rocks and potatoes wherever the could
She fended them off and continued her cleaning
despite their best efforts to stop her too soon
Against all odds and being pelted, the woman survived.
Reminds me of the fundamental religious against the so-called sins of women.
And women being criminalised for failed births.
https://www.rferl.org/a/afghan-rights-group-investigates-video-of-woman-being-stoned-to-death/30414665.html
In response, the Taliban said on Twitter that the punishment of stoning for adultery is an “Islamic ruling that cannot be rejected by any Muslim.”
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59214544
When the room was all finished and the infant all buried
the lady stopped cleaning and walked out of the room.
The culprit stood humbly at the show that had ended
and the mother talked speechless as she held onto the broom.
Now the woman is the 'lady' not just a 'cleaning lady' in the usual sense. More like an avenging angel.
Righting the wrongs.
The culprit, the man, now apparently humble.
The mother dumbfounded and bemused nevertheless had something to hold on to.
A broom: a cleaning tool. For attack or defence...to sweep the dirt away. A new start?
An act of cleansing. The mind. 'The lunatics are in my hall'.
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
I keep meaning to start a discussion about this. Reading for entertainment is popularly opposed to reading that is in some way deeper, e.g., reading for themes, symbols, hidden meanings, messages, social commentary, etc.
You and I have discussed this before and we agree. I mostly read for entertainment, although I think there is a third way other than for "meaning" as you describe it. That's to read to share the writer's experience. Then again, maybe that's the same as one of the other two.
Taking a text apart to examine the language is an act very unfriendly to literature, or really, anything somebody has written. Most people hate having editors tamper with their texts. There are occasions when hostile acts are necessary.
Editing and interpretation are completely different acts. I don't mind being edited in appropriate situations. That often happened when I was an engineer. I am egoist enough to think my original words were almost always better than the edited version.
As I noted in a comment, I think perhaps a psychiatric assessment is more appropriate. I don't see much of positive value in it by any standard.
Yeah, well you're wrong in your assessment for whatever it's worth. You mistake absurdity for reality. It's much like misunderstanding sarcasm, where you think a comment about the freezing cold 100 degree weather is evidence that the speaker has a neurological problem where he can't sense the cold. He would be saying the exact opposite.
You also don't explain why the writer wouldn't have the same visceral reaction to the situation as you would, meaning it's just as consistent to project upon the writer criticism of the situation as opposed to advocacy of it.
But anyway, I don't take myself seriously on such things as I realize it's just the 30 minute work of a guy sitting in front of his computer pissing around, and it well could suck beyond suck, but I don't think your criticism of it is correct, at least not in the sense that you've correctly read my intent.
But anyway, I don't take myself seriously on such things as I realize it's just the 30 minute work of a guy sitting in front of his computer pissing around, and it well could suck beyond suck, but I don't think your criticism of it is correct, at least not in the sense that you've correctly read my intent.
First off, the comment about psychiatric assessment was me being a smart ass. As for the rest, I assumed you were being a smart ass. If you're fair, you'll admit that, given your history, that is a reasonable way of seeing it. So... I did not give it a serious reading. Even now, I can't help suspecting your reaction to my post is a put on.
As for the rest, I assumed you were being a smart ass. If you're fair, you'll admit that, given your history, that is a reasonable way of seeing it. So... I did not give it a serious reading. Even now, I can't help suspecting your reaction to my post is a put on.
Even if I suspect someone is taking the piss and will laugh at my 'take' on things, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It's no skin off my nose, even if I fall flat on my face.
I read the poem and commented, for better or worse. It was a useful exercise.
I'd rather see unpleasant and dehumanizing poetry that taps into the unspeakable in a light and lively manner, than pictures of teeth in feet and whatever other horrors Hanover has posted here.
I'd rather see unpleasant and dehumanizing poetry that taps into the unspeakable in a light and lively manner, than pictures of teeth in feet and whatever other horrors Hanover has posted here.
Yes. Dear God yes.
As I noted, I wasn't writing to you as a moderator, just as a fellow human being. Both of us the targets of unspeakable literary attack.
Even if I suspect someone is taking the piss and will laugh at my 'take' on things, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It's no skin off my nose, even if I fall flat on my face.
I read the poem and commented, for better or worse. It was a useful exercise.
And your comments are always very appreciated. They really are, and they are what makes our contests worthwhile. Most people aren't willing (and probably able) to look deeply into our amateurish efforts at art and give useful feedback.
I have self-censored so many great pieces of art from you guys. It's sort of like when something smells or tastes really terrible, you have to ask people to smell it or taste it. I guess y'all are the ones who refuse those great opportunities.
And your comments are always very appreciated. They really are, and they are what makes our contests worthwhile. Most people aren't willing (and probably able) to look deeply into our amateurish efforts at art and give useful feedback.
Yeah, I really get that. I am a soul seeker :razz:
I hope others will participate more come the time.
Not sure I'll be able...or willing. Balancing my brain budget.
That pic of me freaks me out. I need the page to change so I don't have to look at it again. That must be what you guys felt when you saw the tooth-foot thing.
Reply to Hanover I don’t know what Faceapp is. Are you saying that what appears to be a photo of a girl, posted above, is actually some kind of AI rendering of you, as a girl?
I don’t know what Faceapp is. Are you saying that what appears to be a photo of a girl, posted above, is actually some kind of AI rendering of you, as a girl?
Yeah, so if you go to the app store and get FaceApp, you can pull a picture in of anyone and then alter it by aging it, making it younger, adding facial hair, glasses, and even changing gender. The free version (which I have) is limited, but still with plenty of features. The pay version allows more modifications.
I mean the idea that the person in the photo isn't even a real person, even though it looks like a regular girl sitting on a bench smiling at something that is happening, like she has a history, a family, friends, and that kind of thing, and that she looks strangely like someone who could be my daughter freaks me out.
You should try Fartapp. It renders you as a gaseous substance that just escaped someone's arse. You might find it comfortingly closer to reality,
I tried the app and all it did was let me modify farts from one smell to the other. It sort of freaked me out to have eaten eggs, but to instead have farts the smell of chili dogs that don't actually exist.
Reply to Baden So now I'm going to have go on my phone, save your profile pic to my images, save Jamal's pic into my images, load your profile pic into the app, change the face from what it is to @Jamal's pic, load it back in to my profile page, and then I can have Jamal's teen girl image flipping off you from my profile.
That's going to take me like a half hour, but a joke's a joke and it's gotta be done.
Trust me, I know. My brother and kids have been bombarded with one crazy pic after the other since I discovered this app. And if I overcome my cheapness and buy the upgrade for a month, it'll start all over again.
Likely. No doubt there’s an incel out there who’s fallen in love with his female self. What happens next we’ll never know, but it’s good material for a short story by Hanover.
There aren’t many members who use a photo of themselves as their profile pic, but @Jack Cummins does, so I made this:
Jack CumminsOctober 12, 2022 at 22:37#7478550 likes
Reply to Jamal
I am sure that I would get on better in life if I really did look like that! Perhaps that is my anima or psychic twin which you have conjured up from the collective unconscious.
There aren’t many members who use a photo of themselves as their profile pic, but Jack Cummins does, so I made this:
I can't believe you did this. I hope you asked permission. One of the reasons members DON'T post their real names and pics is for anonymity; to prevent misuse of identity. And so on.
Did any of you 'boys with toys' read the Terms and Conditions before signing up?
Soul seeking
Snapping
Face App
To it
You are
Lost
Taking others down with you
Next up AI
Mind changing
Transformation
Good to Bad
And Vice Versa
Colour in the future
Inflate bleak balloons
It's party time
But whose? Black or white
Read or blew
The choice is yours
According to FaceApp's terms of use and privacy policy, people are giving FaceApp "a perpetual, irrevocable, nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide, fully-paid, transferable sub-licensable license" to use or publish the content they upload, and FaceApp can track their location, what websites they visit, when they open the app, and other metadata. In applying filters to peoples’ photos, FaceApp will create a detailed biometric map of their faces--which can be as unique to them as their fingerprint or DNA....
But that was 2019. Things could have changed...hmm...
Seems safe as much as anything is safe: https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/06/19/faceapp-privacy-what-you-need-to-know-about-the-viral-russian-app/
...Because of the uniquely identifying nature of our faces and our inability to change them, cataloguing and storing peoples' faces in a database that can be mined indefinitely is problematic. A biometric map of someone's face isn't just used for unlocking smartphones, it is now a highly-prized commodity by governments and tech companies used to train algorithms and for facial recognition-enabled mass surveillance. In the future such biometric maps could be used for all sorts of purposes that people may not anticipate.
There aren’t many members who use a photo of themselves as their profile pic, but Jack Cummins does, so I made this:
— Jamal
I can't believe you did this. I hope you asked permission. One of the reasons members DON'T post their real names and pics is for anonymity; to prevent misuse of identity. And so on.
@Jamal Still waiting for a reply.
Did @Jack Cummins know what you were doing and the potential dangers?
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 10:57#7479640 likes
Reply to Amity
As it happens, I have a sense of humour and often when I look at people I wonder what they would look like as a member of the opposite gender. It was a bit surreal finding the picture on the Shoutbox though. It is very strange that photo technology can do this. When I saw the pictures of the other members I thought that Baden as a teenage girl looked rather pretty and mine looked a bit strange, especially the eyes peering out from the glasses was a a bit uncanny.
That isn't the focus of my concern. It's about more than you.
See previous posts and quotes from Privacy International.
But if you're fine with it, that's OK.
I wonder if @180 Proof would feel the same if his photo had been used in this way.
Perhaps he would laugh too...
*shrugs*
Agent SmithOctober 13, 2022 at 11:10#7479690 likes
Sic infit ...
Experiment, experiment, experiment!
You only live once! Right guys & gals?
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 11:16#7479710 likes
Reply to Amity
I do see your point. It probably says a lot about the internet itself and possibilities of fake news and the way things can be changed.
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 11:20#7479730 likes
Reply to Agent Smith
I wonder why you chose your picture. I think that the image you had for your Madfool identity was so different. I wonder if people view your responses differently in the two identities and whether you notice any differences in the responses you receive.
Agent SmithOctober 13, 2022 at 11:27#7479760 likes
I wonder why you chose your picture. I think that the image you had for your Madfool identity was so different. I wonder if people view your responses differently in the two identities and whether you notice any differences in the responses you receive.
Great question Jack! Apart from not wanting to give people nightmares (I'm Quasimodo), I haven't the slightest clue why I selected that particular pic of Agent Smith - availability/not copyrighted/free? Free? Alhamdulillah! Mashallah! Subhanallah!
Metaphysician UndercoverOctober 13, 2022 at 11:37#7479780 likes
Reply to Amity
Oh, the shit hits the fan. Jackie Cummins' face is now in the data base of the evil empire. The problem here is that people can take your picture anytime they want, and send that picture wherever they want. My kids sent my picture to the app without me knowing. How do you propose we prevent stuff like that? Make it illegal to take someone's picture without their permission? Make the picture taken the property of the person it is taken of, rather than the taker? What if the picture's of multiple people?
The problem here is that people can take your picture anytime they want, and send that picture wherever they want.
Yeah, I know. I don't like it. And it can't be prevented.
I've also signed up to Google without paying attention to all the Terms. Agreeing to whatever...
I have sold my very soul :cry:
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 12:08#7479900 likes
Reply to Amity
I used to take pictures in the streets to do drawings and paintings from. I began doing this at school and no one seemed to mind. However, once I looked like an adult I began to get people objecting, querying my motivations. I found it a shame because I was using the photos as a basis for making my own original art. I used to take photos in Camden town, but if I tried doing this now, I would probably get beaten up. At times, people did like to be in my photos but, then, they began adopting strange poses which wouldn't have worked in my drawings.
Strangely, I have had people photographing me and a photo of me sitting, reading on the floor in a library appeared in an exhibition. I am not sure to what extent it is an infringement to take photos for art, especially as people are on CCTV anyway. Are our bodies copyright as private or are they public?
That isn't the focus of my concern. It's about more than you.
See previous posts and quotes from Privacy International.
You are not getting much support for your position. At least know I agree with you. It is disrespectful and inappropriate to use a member's photo without permission. It's fine that Jack Cummins doesn't mind, but it's beside the point. Jamal should know better.
The way I see it, it would've been disrespectful if I'd done it without mentioning Jack (so that he got a notification). Since I did mention him, I think it was no worse than cheeky.
The way I see it, it would've been disrespectful if I'd done it without mentioning Jack (so that he got a notification). Since I did mention him, I think it was no worse than cheeky.
You're defending a theoretical victim, who you postulate as one who would care if his public profile picture were manipulated, yet you acknowledge he doesn't actually exist. There is no victim, just a violation of some rule you made up, which says that profile pictures are off limits to being processed through some app.
You're defending a theoretical victim, who you postulate as one who would care if his public profile picture were manipulated, yet you acknowledge he doesn't actually exist. There is no victim, just a violation of some rule you made up, which says that profile pictures are off limits to being processed through some app.
You are not getting much support for your position. At least know I agree with you. It is disrespectful and inappropriate to use a member's photo without permission.
Yeah and thanks. It can be lonely on the high road to nowhere.
Meaning that it's usually a waste of time. Positions are entrenched with little to no 'give'.
I've tried to make sense of TPF's 'Terms of Service'. It would seem that all contributors' content, including PMs, can be used any which way...but I'm sure that's not right, is it?
I've always wondered if Admin could read our PMs.
Paranoid, me? Not much.
In the case of someone who posts their real name and current photo, they're not going to bother much.
I see it as a matter of principle that permission should be sought where possible, and not just a mention after the event.
It's more than being 'cheeky', it's getting carried away with the sheer thoughtless entertainment of it all.
Fair enough, anything goes in the Shoutbox and politics...
Strangely, I have had people photographing me and a photo of me sitting, reading on the floor in a library appeared in an exhibition. I am not sure to what extent it is an infringement to take photos for art, especially as people are on CCTV anyway. Are our bodies copyright as private or are they public?
I don't think we can be in public under a dome of presumed privacy or 'copyright'. When we are actually "in private" at home or in an otherwise public space designated as "private" we can quite properly object to being photographed--even take legal action. We lose "privacy" when we are in public.
In public we are available for observation and record making (like photography, sound recording, etc). We might object to being photographed sitting on the floor of the library; cruising in the park; eating unhealthy food choices at lunch. We might object to the way the photograph was taken and displayed, but we can't prevent it from happening.
Is that going too far in favoring the prerogatives of the photographer?
If one is wearing an atrocious outfit in pubic--clashing plaids, stripes, and floral patterns and poorly fitting--we have made ourselves a spectacle suitable for an unflattering photograph. Same for walking down the street minding our own nondescript business.
Cameras-in-phones are ubiquitous; we probably can't tell when we are being photographed.
It depends where you are. In Spain, for instance, it's against the law to take photos of people in public without permission. I didn't know this when I went to live in Spain and incurred much Spanish wrath when I attempted street photography.
Cameras-in-phones are ubiquitous; we probably can't tell when we are being photographed.
You're being video recorded constantly by street cameras, store cameras, police cameras, and dash cameras, not to mention having your movements charted with phone GPS, car GPS, license plate cameras, credit card usage, cell phone pings, internet usage, and on and on and on.
I heard they located Bin Laden by finding a home that had no internet activity and no flow of information out. That is, by not communicating, you are communicating.
This whole privacy thing ended long ago. The only meaningful counterintelligence I've been able to use to throw off the authorities is creating a fake profile picture where I portray myself as a hip young woman. I'm not sure if I've shared that technology here, but if you guys are interested, I can show you what I can do to people's pictures. You can even manipulate the pictures whether they agree or not.
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 17:51#7481020 likes
Reply to Bitter Crank
I think that photography and art involve complex areas of identification and anonymity. If someone creates a work of art in which individuals can be recognised it is where it becomes dubious. Funnily enough, with the photo image which @Jamal made of me it probably didn't look that much like me and anyone looking at it would not notice a resemblance unless it had been pointed out.
When I used to do drawings and paintings based on photos of people, I thought that there was probably a need to make some changes. This applies to writing too. For example, when people write novels a lot may be based on personal experiences, including people one has known. However, if 'fiction' is written in such a way that real people are depicted it could lead to offense or even libel. So, in art there may need to be a way of juggling and juxtaposing so that art remain art rather than expositions of private lives.
Funnily enough, with the photo image which Jamal made of me it probably didn't look that much like me and anyone looking at it would not notice a resemblance unless it had been pointed out.
It kinda looked like you with a wig on.
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 18:03#7481090 likes
Reply to Hanover
Not really, because my jawline is much more angular and the skin was far too smooth. If you saw me in real life you would see the difference! Even photos which do have some accuracy capture a specific image or representation and it does come down to the complexity of the phenomenology of perception.
All artistic and photographs capture a fleeting moment and impression, and it may be that portrait painting, in it's more lengthy observational quality, is able to portray a deeper and more intimate portrayal of a person.
it does come down to the complexity of the phenomenology of perception.
I see where you're going. You're saying every male only looks male because we're contrasting their appearance to a female version of them which lurks in the background like a phantom.
I see where you're going. You're saying every male only looks male because we're contrasting their appearance to a female version of them which lurks in the background like a phantom.
I don't think he was saying that at all, but to the extent you are saying it, it says something about a person that they look at a man and try to decipher the female within that person. I can't say I've ever looked at a man and thought to myself what that person would like as a woman, but I can say that I've had some fucked up thoughts. That's just not one of them.
It says only very positive things, like that you want to see the whole person, both their female and male persona. It's lovely really. Very inspirational.
It says only very positive things, like that you want to see the whole person, both their female and male persona. It's lovely really. Very inspirational.
In my post to Jack, I edited out the part about dredging up the Anima from the depths like Cthulhu, writhing with suckered tentacles. I may have some personal issues.
Jack CumminsOctober 13, 2022 at 19:59#7481410 likes
Reply to frank
In some ways, I do believe in an essential androgyny, like the yin and the yang, even though it may be apparent in some more than others. A couple of weeks ago I wrote a thread on what is the difference between men and women. Of course, there are chromosomes and hormones but it may be that culture exaggerates these in performance, especially in stereotypes of behaviour and physical differences.
Reply to Jack Cummins
I think we live in a more androgynous time. In the past, like in medieval Europe, blurring the lines actually freaked people out. Joan of Arc, for instance, was burned for the crime of wearing men's clothing. For us, the imperative is to see the humanity of women, something denied them in the past.
Although having said that, I just recently posted a video about energy that mentions a female genius who developed the idea of gravitational potential energy. So I guess there were people who realized the truth all along.
In the past, like in medieval Europe, blurring the lines actually freaked people out.
Yeah, it goes back farther than that.
"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Deuteronomy 22:5.
Joan of Arc, for instance, was burned for the crime of wearing men's clothing.
Not so, Frank. It is true that Jeanne d'Arc wore men's clothing when she engaged in military activity on behalf of France against the English. Her real crime was a) helping the French beat the English and b) taking military advice from saints.
Sometime around 1429, give or take 15 minutes, St. Michael, St. Catherine, and St. Margaret spoke to Jeanne d'Arc. a 16 year peasant wench, and instructed her to aid the Dauphin in capturing Reims and therefore the French throne. Jeanne, being obedient to the visiting saints' military advice, resolved to help the man who the saints apparently favored for the kingship of France. She was quite successful. The Dauphin was crowned Charles VII with Joan standing nearby.
So, that's why she is the patron saint of France.
Now, what about her burning at the stake?
This all happened during the Hundred Years War, you understand, between France on the one hand and the alliance of Burgundy and England on the other. After her victories, The Burgundians captured Miss d'Arc and sold her to the English. The English tried her for the crime of heresy. What heresy? The heresy of receiving direct instruction from saints or God himself, rather than through proper church channels. At the time, the church was quite fussy about stuff like that.
It is true that Miss d'Arc wore men's clothing. She was a soldier. Take a look at 14th century women's clothing and you will see the obvious problem of soldiering while dressed like that. Men's clothing didn't look all that practical either, but that's another story. While she was in prison awaiting le barbecue, she was told to dress properly, which she did for a while. But then she switched back to men's clothing on the advice of Saints Catherine and Margaret. St. Michael was no longer interested in her case, evidently. At this point, her clothing was incidental. She had already been sentenced to the flame--for heresy, remember, not transvestism.
Not so, Frank. It is true that Jeanne d'Arc wore men's clothing when she engaged in military activity on behalf of France against the English. Her real crime was a) helping the French beat the English and b) taking military advice from saints.
She was tried by the Burgundians. There was only one Englishman at the trial and he didn't stay for the whole thing. The English didn't care. The Burgundian clergy did, because they had denied the Dauphin. If Joan was right, that he was the rightful King, then they had committed blasphemy.
Joan recanted, which was all the clergy really wanted, but there was one priest who wanted her dead. He arranged to have her feminine clothes removed from her room and men's clothing supplied. She put on the men's clothes and was subsequently found guilty of that crime, which carried the punishment of burning.
Bizarrely, we know all this because the transcript of the trial still exists.
Reply to frank Bizarrely, we're taking a 15th century trial transcript as a faithful rendering of what actually happened? George Bernard Shaw apparently used the trial transcript in writing his play, St. Joan. The English ran the trial. This is all like the meaning of the Trinity: I don't have a dog in the fight.
There was a lot at stake here, particularly the legitimacy of the Throne of France. If Miss Arc was a Heretic, and if she crowned the French King, then his elevation to the throne was defective. I still don't think her clothing was the main issue. Sumptuary laws (governing what different groups of people could and could not wear) were in force, and the court felt queasy contemplating a peasant woman wearing knights' armor. Quelle horreur!!!
Heresy was a big deal too, back in the day. The church was not above digging up dead heretics who had not been adequately punished in life and burning their corpses at the stake. (Talk about bizarre.)
BTW, Joan wasn't canonized until 1920. She was revered as the savior of France, or protector, or benefactor, or something long before she obtained sainthood.
Reply to Jamal Jamal, one of my favorite Youtube videos is about stray dogs who have learned how to use the Moscow subway. They commute. There are also videos about a metro-using stray dog in Istanbul who has become a media celebrity because people see this dog traveling around and make short videos about him.
Question: Have you heard about or witnessed dogs riding the subways by themselves?
There is also a video about dog packs in Moscow who aren't cute or charming (not speaking of the officials in the Kremlin).
On the other hand, Athens seems to have pretty friendly stray dogs, as does Istanbul. The film "Stray" follows some stray dogs around Istanbul over several months time. One of the funny scenes is the response of a sanitation worker who has tossed two big bones from a slaughter house to two dogs not he street. They fight over 1 bone. He hollers "Can't you share?" It's a charming film. I suppose liking dogs would help.
Jamal, one of my favorite Youtube videos is about stray dogs who have learned how to use the Moscow subway. They commute. There are also videos about a metro-using stray dog in Istanbul who has become a media celebrity because people see this dog traveling around and make short videos about him.
Question: Have you heard about or witnessed dogs riding the subways by themselves?
I heard about those dogs long before I had any connection to Moscow, about ten years ago when the story was going around the world. There was a local animal behaviour researcher who had established that about twenty of the dogs that sheltered in the stations actually knew how to use the metro system to get around, to some extent.
While I've been living in Moscow I haven't seen many strays except around the outer suburbs (though there are many in other towns), and I don't recall seeing any on the metro. That said, the Moscow metro is huge and I've seen only a fraction of it, mostly the central parts. I asked my wife about the dogs a couple of years ago and she hadn't heard about them (she doesn't use the metro so that might be why).
I did a quick search online and can't find any updates about the situation. Maybe the local authority cleared them out as part of the preparations for the 2018 World Cup.
I've seen a couple of statues of dogs in the metro. One of them commemorates a dog called Malchik:
Malchik (Russian: ???????, lit.?'Little Boy'; c. 1996 – December 2001) was a black mongrel stray dog living in Moscow, Russia. For about three years, Malchik lived at the Mendeleyevskaya station on the Moscow Metro. In 2001, he was killed when a 22-year-old woman, Yuliana Romanova, stabbed him with a kitchen knife. The incident sparked a wave of public outrage regarding the treatment of animals, and, in 2007, a monument was erected in Malchik's honour at Mendeleyevskaya station.
There are also videos about a metro-using stray dog in Istanbul who has become a media celebrity because people see this dog traveling around and make short videos about him
Having struggled to use the Istanbul metro, I'm impressed.
Yes, isn't that strange? The females created by the app seem to have very smooth (sort of artificial) skin. Some sort of gender stereotyping there. The look seems to appeal to Hanover.
Reminds me of Greyfriars Bobby, immortalized in film by Disney in 1961
Yet another incredible dog tale, the loyalty and dedication speaks volumes.
universenessOctober 14, 2022 at 11:39#7483240 likes
:lol: :rofl: Kwasi Kwarteng has been sacked as tory chancellor! The UK tories are currently imploding for trying to give as much money as possible to those who already have as much money as they will ever need! There is not enough space on the internet to hold the number of laughing emoticons I would like to include here. Liz Truss next??
universenessOctober 14, 2022 at 12:45#7483340 likes
Kwasi modo gone! Little Miss Truss(t) getting pelted from all sides.
The congressional panel investigating the deadly attack on the US Capitol last year has voted to subpoena Donald Trump.
Alex Jones fined almost $1 billion.
Iranian protests continue.
Putin and the Russian hawks, not doing so well.
These hope stories must really depress the very few anti-life people here on TPF.
I will enjoy my beers and single malt tonight!
Cheers guys! The only way to run, remains, straight towards the fight.
Jack CumminsOctober 14, 2022 at 14:22#7483480 likes
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover
The 'smooth skin' in the FaceApp is probably more in line with airbrushing techniques used in the magazines and the media. The women and the male pop stars appear with no blemishes and even the fruit in pictures is unusually smooth and colour enhanced. It leaves what appears in photos to be smoother and sparkling in an unrealistic way. It is about artificial stereotypes just like the thin girl models often chosen for fashion models.
Even when doing drawings and paintings there is the question of whether one should flatter or draw all blemishes a person has. Really, I prefer realism rather than the artificial. Mind you, when I used to run art groups, some people used to draw me and the pictures were pretty grim! The really brave people are those who are willing to be models for life drawing classes.
Reply to Hanover Are you sure you don't have a dead pretzel? (See Monty Python, dead parrot). Shirley everyone has seen this classic by now about 1000 times, but it's still instructive.
First off, how about a bust for the credenza. Since you are an attorney, it could be Hammurabi or Perry Mason. If you can get this from the Louvre, you can put it on the floor next to your desk. It shows Hammurabi getting the Code from the God of Justice. The Code itself is inscribed beneath the sculpture.
Sure, I'm joking a bit, but I don't think a bust is a bad idea.
Synchronicitously, I was just before looking here reading a (brilliant) essay by Henry Miller referencing this (from the compendium "Sunday After the War".)
Synchronicitously, I was just before looking here reading a (brilliant) essay by Henry Miller referencing this (from the compendium "Sunday After the War".)
Great minds think alike. And then there are you and I.
I feel like I've missed out on a lot of gems here recently. Anyway,
Dinner: Shrimp scampi. 7 frozen jumbo shrimps thawed, s&p, breaded in all purpose flower, sautéd in butter and olive oil, pasta (cavatappi, a go-to) boiled, then the sauce built in the shrimp pan (sans shrimp). White wine (Italian Verdicchio from the Marche), half a lemon, butter, olive oil, a clove of garlic, dried oregano. Cook off the wine, add the shrimp and pasta, splash of pasta water, combine. Delicious and very easy. Paired with a glass of said Verdicchio (always cook with wine you want to drink).
I haven't had a drink for some years but it's smoking I found hardest to quit. It took some work but I haven't even had a puff for close to 20 years. I used to sit in bars and drink/smoke solidly for 10 hour sessions.
I see there’s a definition in Merriam-Webster: “large shrimp prepared with a garlic-flavored sauce”. I wasn’t aware of that.
In any case, I can recommend the mini-lobster Nephrops norvegicus, or langoustines, as I call them. They’re called scampi when fried in batter or breadcrumbs.
That's probably true. There's a skit from long long ago involving "Shrimp Scampi"...I wish I could remember what it was. It might throw a new light on this discussion, but alas.
I may have told my langoustine micro-anecdote before. I was in a cafe at the harbour in the town of Portree on the Isle of Skye and I asked for some mussels. The guy said he had no fresh seafood left, but if I wait half an hour the boat should be coming in with langoustines. I waited and enjoyed fresh langoustines with a garlic butter sauce and they were great.
universenessOctober 15, 2022 at 07:57#7485000 likes
I may have told my langoustine micro-anecdote before. I was in a cafe at the harbour in the town of Portree on the Isle of Skye and I asked for some mussels. The guy said he had no fresh seafood left, but if I wait half an hour the boat should be coming in with langoustines. I waited and enjoyed fresh langoustines with a garlic butter sauce and they were great.
I'll give you an anecdote that feels a bit similar. From long, long ago, but we still talk about it. We were visiting my brother in France. He, his wife, my wife, my two children, and I took a weekend trip to Belgium and Luxembourg. On the way home, we stopped off at a quaint restaurant in a little village in Belgium for a late lunch. It was beautiful. By a river. We were the only ones there. We ordered and my daughter asked for lapin. We were sitting there looking out the window when we saw the owner, an older women, come out, get in her car, and drive into the village. A little later she returned. She had gone to the butcher's to get the rabbit for my daughter's lunch. I love Europe.
Reply to T Clark It's a nice story, very European, but I must admit I was expecting you to say the woman went out into the woods with a gun to get your rabbit.
A hawk swooped down onto my chickens and I ran out there and danced around like the Wizard of Oz scarecrow and scared him off. We couldn't find one of the chickens for a while, but she turned up hiding in the goat barn.
I'm gonna go buy me some owl decoys to see if that'll work. Apparently it's a federal offense to shoot a hawk, so I have to figure a humane way to deal with this.
I think that Hammurabi stele from the Louvre might do the trick
Hammurabi's stele weighs about 4 tons, Do you have any idea how much UPS will charge to ship it to Atlanta? Plus, UPS will need armed men to carry the thing out of the Louvre -- unless Hanover distracts the guards by throwing tomato soup on the Mona Lisa. But then, what will happen to Hanover? How will enraged Frenchmen act?
Alternatively, I think that Hammurabi stele from the Louvre might do the trick.
I've already bought a cockerel, but he's too young to protect just yet, but a phallic shaped object is often a good stand in for too small a cockerel, so thanks for the suggestion. Perv.
universenessOctober 15, 2022 at 22:42#7487500 likes
I ran out there and danced around like the Wizard of Oz scarecrow and scared him off.
Next time, run out dressed as an enormous chicken wiv attitude! The hawk will never come back and will warn all its hawk mates about the monster chicken that almost terrified it to death.
universenessOctober 15, 2022 at 22:45#7487510 likes
Reply to Hanover
Maybe you could borrow this guys littl ol chickadee.
I was feeling a bit down, but as i bent down to tie my laces, i noticed that i got the wings of heaven on my shoes, I'm a dancin' man and I just can't lose.
When I get a break from work I'll start cooking again.
Sorry but the shape or type of pasta makes a big difference to me. I looked up cavatappi pasta and I'm surprised you used it for that dish. Linguini or spaghetti would be the right one.
Hammurabi's stele weighs about 4 tons, Do you have any idea how much UPS will charge to ship it to Atlanta? Plus, UPS will need armed men to carry the thing out of the Louvre -- unless Hanover distracts the guards by throwing tomato soup on the Mona Lisa. But then, what will happen to Hanover? How will enraged Frenchmen act?
@Hanover is a wealth attorney. It is my understanding he had a major role in President Trump's attempt to coerce Georgia's Secretary of State to find those 11,748 votes. I heard he is close personal friends with Donald Trump Jr. I'm sure DTJ would lend him the money.
Also I wanted to say, I think by next week I'd like to start a reading group focusing on Hume's section about the existence of external objects, it makes for some fantastic reading.
I believe someone like @frank and @Srap Tasmaner might enjoy this. I'd have to figure out which portions to focus on, so as to not make it more than, say, 12 pages. Something like that.
Haven't seen him in a long time, it would be a shame cause he's quite interesting.
Yes, we were advised about 3 months ago that Wayfarer had opted out of this forum. I understand he felt he had come to the end of his stint here - perhaps the ongoing cycle of similar discussions no longer provided him with the sustenance he preferred. I miss his stuff.
Srap TasmanerOctober 18, 2022 at 02:13#7493330 likes
Oh well, this is how it goes. Best to continue discussing those topics which he was interested in, which are quite fascinating.
I believe Wayfarer had gotten to a point where he needed to progress further in his understanding of the reality of the immaterial, to find further release from the constraints imposed by the material world. He seemed to have gotten bogged down in some perceived need to defend his beliefs against the non-believers; and this turned into a futile and frustrating task, with the materialists surrounding him and closing in on all sides.
But he's far better off to spend his time studying and developing a more complete understanding of the things he believes in, enjoying his own freedom, than to try to provide freedom for those who chose to lock themselves within their own prejudices.
Whatever floats his boat. I think there are plenty of different views here, even if some views are somewhat more popular than others.
Nevertheless, finding things to study and learn is always worth the time - especially so in fields such as this, which requite plenty of reading and thinking about difficult topics.
It seems to me there’s a few users of the forum that could stand to dial everything down a tone :) People are gonna be wrong more often than they are correct, no need to give yourself a hernia about it folks!
Peace xxoo
Metaphysician UndercoverOctober 19, 2022 at 12:21#7497320 likes
Not sure if you figured it out, but highlight the text you want to quote by using your shift key and arrows and then it will pop up the word "quote" which if you click will quote it down in the box where you type.
It seems to me there’s a few users of the forum that could stand to dial everything down a tone :) People are gonna be wrong more often than they are correct, no need to give yourself a hernia about it folks!
Peace xxoo
You're new here. Perhaps you should wait a while before offering condescending advice.
You're new here. Perhaps you should wait a while before offering condescending advice.
It was incredibly general advice about something that should be universal - politeness. But you're correct, it probably was a bit condescending in retrospect. Sorry!
In my defence I am a returning customer to this forum from years ago, and was a very regular poster in an earlier incarnation of this site hosted by someone else (yes technically a different forum).
I suppose my thought was that sometimes newbies can see things that aren't normative in a way that old hands can't. I wasn't speaking about my own feelings being hurt as much as lurking and seeing general rudeness, but I'll be more careful of my critiques in future!
I wasn't speaking about my own feelings being hurt as much as lurking and seeing general rudeness, but I'll be more careful of my critiques in future!
Sure, the forum can have some rough edges, but the moderators do a good job of walking the line between permissiveness and over-restriction. It's a nice place.
No, please don't be more careful. Otherwise who will we have to be cranky with.
In the news here in the US, we hear about all the troubles the Russian military is having in Ukraine. We hear about the difficulties with Russian military mobilization and conscription. But I also read that the war is still popular among Russians. That is surprising. How do things look from where you are?
Reply to T Clark Where I am is now Spain. I made my way via Antalya and Munich.
There is a lot of support for the war in Russia, with varying levels of intensity and resignation. A lot of Russians who don't know better - - but who should, I would think - - seriously think the boys are defending the motherland. It's disastrous for Russian-Ukrainian relations and there are too few prominent voices speaking up against it, though there are a few.
Many Russians hate the whole thing, but there's no space for a real conversation.
There is a lot of support for the war in Russia, with varying levels of intensity and resignation. A lot of Russians who don't know better - - but who should, I would think - - seriously think the boys are defending the motherland. It's disastrous for Russian-Ukrainian relations and there are too few prominent voices speaking up against it, though there are a few.
This could easily be rewritten to accurately describe the situation in the US during the Vietnam and Iraq Wars.
Reply to T Clark At the same time, it's shocking to see some Russians turn on such an intimate neighbour and cheer--as I've seen some ultra nationalists do--the bombing of apartment buildings.
I'm not saying that bombing people far away is better, but I think it's a significant moral element.
Metaphysician UndercoverOctober 20, 2022 at 01:28#7499130 likes
It's disastrous for Russian-Ukrainian relations...
It's only getting worse. How can this ever be rectified? Even amongst Ukrainians I imagine there is division. Or are pro-Russian Ukrainians not even Ukrainian any more, but simply Russian? And those who do not want to choose a side?
Reply to Jamal It verges on a civil war. Civil war is the least civil. It magnifies the narcissism of small differences. If Ukraine were in any way a part of Russia previously, it is much, much less so now. Putin has bolstered Ukrainian nationalism.
Reply to Banno Perhaps they should take advice from British statesman, Arthur Balfour who said - "Why can't the Jews and the Arabs just sit down together and settle this like good Christians?"
Agent SmithOctober 20, 2022 at 04:58#7499360 likes
"Why can't the Jews and the Arabs just sit down together and settle this like good Christians?"
:lol:
Why can't the republicans and democrats just sit down together and settle this like good Americans?
Why can't the Catholics and Protestants sit down and settle it like good Christians?
Why can't the Jews and Arabs just merge their gods into Yawallah or Allahweh? and start a new nation called Ispalestine or Palreal?
How big could this list get?
Many people talk about physics on this forum - why does no one talk about chemistry...? Eh???
Psychics deals with the concepts of time and constructs of reality and the physical world we live in as a whole. Chemistry just re-arranges junk of little mystery and unfortunately can be used for little but esoteric metaphors that may make a lone professor on break chuckle some.
Psychics deals with the concepts of time and constructs of reality and the physical world we live in as a whole. Chemistry just re-arranges junk of little mystery and unfortunately can be used for little but esoteric metaphors that may make a lone professor on break chuckle some.
Reply to Changeling Our evolutionary history leads directly to philosophy. Installing the capacity for complex thinking on top of seething emotions leads to all sorts of messy experiences which require explanation and maybe exculpation as well We should write less about physics+philosophy and more about biology+philosophy.
See, I knew I'd be able to get Hanover drawing fish cartoons when he's supposed to be lawyering. Jamal's gonna be a tougher nut to crack though. :pray:
Good point. My awareness of time has deteriorated since I immersed myself in the world of cartoon comedy. Perhaps someday when someone is dumb enough to offer me employment this might matter.
Good point. My awareness of time has deteriorated since I immersed myself in the world of cartoon comedy. Perhaps someday when someone is dumb enough to offer me employment this might matter.
Send me your resume. My law firm has been looking for a time disoriented cartoonist for some time, but none have made it past the criminal background check yet.
I really think TPF can reach new levels of popularity (though at what price? that's for the individual user to ask...) with these cartoons. You're a really good drawer and the content is good too. I really thought you copy-pasted that from a large website.
Look what they can do for other communities: https://xkcd.com/
As you can see, they drive points home sometimes more effectively (and quickly!) then factual explanations. Humor bypassing ingrained blocks/shut down triggers, etc.. very fascinating. I was writing a blog about the same but a mental block got triggered so I stopped..
Metaphysician UndercoverOctober 24, 2022 at 01:34#7510120 likes
You're a really good drawer and the content is good too.
Very kind of you to say so. I'm barely a dilittante drawer but we have some accomplished artists, e.g. check out @praxis and others here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/89/get-creative
As you can see, they drive points home sometimes more effectively (and quickly!) then factual explanations.
I agree. I had hardly drawn a cartoon about anything since I was a kid but I wanted to make the point from another thread that claims about "a fully developed morality" independent of social context were nonsensical. And this seemed the most succinct way to do it.
In the cartoon versus poetry showdown, I give you this, my latest work. Enjoy.
There once was a small school of buffoons
who swam in their river of cartoons
who whined and complained
Hanover they blamed
For their untimely met death from harpoons.
I present thee a jelly called Hanny
Who sits everyday on his fanny
But try as he might
Can't draw for his life
And writes limericks so bad it's uncanny
universenessOctober 24, 2022 at 13:17#7511090 likes
Well, more of the same ol shit! Rishi Rich now UK PM. :death: :broken: :flower:
Oh well, looks like we all have to wait another few years for any respite.
Thank goodness in Scotland, we at least have an SNP buffer.
Reply to Changeling Here you go: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13613/current-conservative-prime-minister-all-general-prime-minister-discussions-here/p1
I don't get it. Is his penis red? Is his nose red and the fact that he has his pants down irrelevant? Maybe his physique reminds her of Rudolph Nureyev. What's with her hair? It seems like they're in a sexual situation, but they're just standing there looking at each other while she comments. She looks disappointed. Perhaps he feels inadequate.
Sorry, I'm working on explicating poems in another thread.
I wrote a new poem I'd like to share. Actually, it will be written as I now write it. I call these poems real time poems. They are not burdened with planning or rewrites.
As I lay awake late at night
Crossed legged on the floor
Staring down between the space between my knees
Where the pool of vomit lies
Sorting through the pieces consumed earlier
Not yet ready to take the towel and bleach to mop it away
I see colors and shades I don't remember tasting earlier
Things I took in me without having noticed
My body rejecting then instinctively as they do not belong
The revolting smell bringing waves of more to inspect
A butterfly lands right in the middle
Its legs getting stuck as it tries to escape
Bile and mucous comes splashing on top it
It's delicate hues bleed into the waste
It flutters about and floats to the ceiling
Dusting the room in a beautiful mess.
You forgot the one about your beloved pet dog/cat, who you embrace regularly, who enters the scene and consumes the feast you have lovingly regurgitated for it (butterfly as well). Many species feed their young using this method.
Then there is the verse about your vomiting dog/cat as part of you regurgitated feast disagreed with it (probably the butterfly!), then the alternative cat/dog consumes that kind regurgitation.
Then there is the verse where the alternate cat/dog poops out the remains of your original feast in your garden and its very irresponsible owner does not properly dispose of the poop.
The poop biodegrades over time and worms consume that material and carry some of it to your vegetable patch.
Then there is the verse about how some of the material deposited by the worms in your veg patch, is consumed by your growing veg as nutrients.
Then there is the verse about you, your pregnant wife and your baby in her womb consuming some of the veg. Don't forget the bit where you bite down on a bit of carrot and are strangely reminded of the time you vomited on your own legs.
Then there is the final verse about your child, now a teenager, asking you about the strange taste he/she experienced in her/his mouth, one night in a dream. 'It was like kebab meat mixed with black forest gateau dad, some crazy combo you might do if you were smashed out your skull on cheap whiskey and then threw up all over your own legs, as you sat on the floor cross legged and unable to sleep!'
Her/his story invoked a memory, which made you feel sick, so you sat on the floor cross legged and ......
Looks like the sort of New Yorker cartoon that I just don't get.
I agree. The hair straight up in the air makes no sense, nor does their disparate level of dress. Perhaps the artist's original idea was to have her lying down (thus the tousled about hair), with him dropping trow and standing above her, but that was modified as too graphic. It was at that moment of anticipated penetration that she then expressed understandable alarm at the dermatological condition affecting his genitals, at which time she tried to add levity to the situation by comparing Rudolph's nose to what was likely ecchymosis riddled half-wood, but I speculate as to that detail.
Rudolph is the worst Christmas song ever. This is the story. Reindeer gets bullied by colleagues. Management's solution is to load extra work onto him and tell him it's a privilege. So the bullies get to stand about feasting on lichen. The victim has to work 24 / 7 to deliver work targets. And then we are supposed to celebrate this outrage in song as a great success for teamwork and leadership. No, thanks.
I think the @praxis cartoon was social criticism directed at our collective discomfort with gender reassignment and men who have a Christmas light where their penis should be.
Reply to Baden If the meaning of the cartoon is so obvious, fill us in on its meaning. You probably only get it because you are a fellow cartoonist, whereas me, I'm just a lowly humble poet, trying to eke out an existence one heartfelt verse at a time.
Funny enough, neither my partner nor my sister understood my last cartoon which I also thought totally obvious and involved a play on words between 'verb' and 'burp'. My partner was the one driving today by the way and we were going to see my sister when I had to get her to stop the car so I could get out and puke. I really want to make a grammar based cartoon out of that but I can't find a part of speech that sounds like "puke". If you can solve this conundrum for me my faith in your wisdom will be restored. :pray:
It was not Betty's projectile vomiting that was most disturbing, but it was Johnny's intense gaze of the scene, punctuated by his erection interjection.
It was not Betty's projectile vomiting that was most disturbing, but it was Johnny's intense gaze of the scene, punctuated by his erection interjection.
Reply to Baden I started out as a nebulous blob fish without a hat, then I became a round fish with a small hat, and now I'm a better defined fish with a large hat. The last fish screams to be a shark (as I am a lawyer), yet no fin or sharp teeth.
C minus.
What I might suggest in terms of working on your creativity is that you move from your mockery theme to the bodily function theme. I have noticed that for some reason no fish has yet had to defecate. I don't understand how that can be.
Ian Hamilton, who broke into Westminster Abbey in London with fellow University of Glasgow students on Christmas Day in 1950 to take back the Stone of Destiny, the rock upon which Scottish monarchs had been crowned for centuries until England seized it in 1296, died on Oct. 3 in North Connel, Scotland. He was 97.
His death was reported widely in the Scottish news media.
Mr. Hamilton was studying law when he hatched his plan with three others to recover the stone. It was not, in his view, a silly escapade or a student prank. An ardent Scottish nationalist, he viewed the stone as a potent symbol of Scottish independence that rightly belonged on Scottish soil.
Reply to Hanover There's are several hundred pants in that plaid and style kicking around the musty charity thrift shops of England. Pick up a pair or two on your next trip to Merry Olde. The sweater really completes the ensemble, so you gotta find that too. Surely you have black shoes in your closet? The guys down at the courthouse will be SO jealous when they see you in your new Ian Hamilton outfit.
don't get it. His dad said he might be chips, and then he saw a bag of chips.
Also, it's mom, not mum. Chips, not crisps.
C minus.
Hanover's day:
1) Wake up.
2) Find reasons to give Baden's comics a C-minus.
3) Watch porn.
4) Fire someone who's better at lawyering than him.
5) Watch porn.
6) Delegate all work responsibilities to minions who don't want to get fired.
7) Etc.
His mum is the packet of chips/crisps. As if you didn't know that.
On behalf of all Scots lovers of the stone of destiny, I humbly thank you.
Having said that, I have to admit that as a person who rejects woo woo, I would grind that stupid stone into sand and spread it on a beach somewhere.
Jacob's Pillow! Hah! Total BS. A fictitious story about a fictitious character who laid his fictitious head on a fictitious stone, which ended up in Scotland/England/Scotland.
There are some other stories about that piece of unimportant rock you might already know but if not, might find interesting.
1. The stone broke when Iain and his pals removed it in 1950. They had it repaired by a Glasgow
Stonemason, Robert Gray, who refixed the bit that broke off, using a metal rod, but he put a message on paper, hidden in the rod (supposedly).
2. The stone was given to Arbroath Abbey. But exactly how the English got it back, remains 'foggy.'
3. Robert Gray was supposed to be a 'Mason' and possibly connected to the Knghts Templar.
They told him to make copies of the stone, which he did, and it was one of them that was returned to England. So which stone is the real stone?
Personally, I couldn't care less as the whole history of that stone is based on BS woo woo as are all stories related to similar Christian relics.
HOWEVER! I still fully agree with your feelings that Iain and his pals did a good job in shoving the memory of Edward I's action into the dog shit his historical face belongs in.
This is one ugly stone/copy/real one!
I like the earlier place that they used in Scotland for scumbag kings:
Dunadd - in the footsteps of kings
Early kings of Dalriada up to kings of Alba such as Kenneth McAlpin etc were supposed to have been crowned here. Possibly Robert the Bruce as well.
universenessOctober 28, 2022 at 12:38#7521730 likes
I would call these triubhas or trews.
The tartan truis or trousers date back to 1538 as a style of woven tartan cloth trousers as a garment preferably used during the Highland winter where the kilt would be impractical in such cold weather. The word is triubhas in Scottish Gaelic. Truis or trews are anglicised spellings meaning trousers.
Trews or troosers is so much more melodic that the much more posh trousers.
A famous song which agrees is of course:
Someone should rename this thread "The Scottishbox". I've had enough.
universenessOctober 28, 2022 at 12:44#7521750 likes
Reply to Jamal
:rofl: A wee bite o haggis and a wee dram and you will feel fully Scottish and proud again.
Instead of coveting that 'Earthling,' badge all the time, not that I don't favour the Earthling badge myself.
universenessOctober 28, 2022 at 13:03#7521780 likes
Reply to Jamal
I hope you don't suffer from alcoholism before I type this but If I was standing next to you in Spain right now with a glass of single malt in my hand, I would wave it under your nose, something like:
Reply to universeness Well, I dislike that way of rendering Scots or Scottish dialects in English that you use. Obviously it would sound roughly like "Aye ah did", but that kind of spelling is cringey to me, and barely does justice to the richness of the dialect and accent. So there.
Comments (61561)
Yes.
Take me to the corner of Eliminative Materialism and Wishful Thinking. There's an extra $10 in it if you can get me there before @universeness.
:lol: Reading the short exchange between Tom and unenlightened was both fun and actually quite revealing, for my deserved label of philosophical neophyte as legitimately thrown at me by a few TPF members during exchanges with them.
But as I 'googled my ass off,' (to borrow a claim made by (imo) a particularly mad theist member of TPF), with terms like 'eliminative materialism,' 'moral realism,' and 'rugged individualism.' I began to appreciate that I fully understood and was familiar with the underlying meanings of these labels. I am indeed a neophyte when it comes to familiarity with the elitist nomenclature used in philosophy. I don't mean this as a criticism of philosophy as my own field of computing science has its own elitist nomenclature as does all fields of science. I call such nomenclatures elitist as only a few achieve fluency through years of study and the many are left to 'google their ass off,' and had to use much slower methods before google. In a face-to-face encounter with no google access, I would soon be unable to contribute to an exchange that included unfamiliar philosophical labels. I look forward to the day when we can all be connected to 'universal translators,' that can quickly translate elitist labels into personal descriptions we can understand during exchanges. We will be able to communicate with each other in much better ways when/if such translator tech becomes available.
Tom typed:
Quoting Tom Storm
He is correct, I am a 'wishful thinker,' as I am an optimist, who believes that the human race is of great benefit to the universe as we ask questions, but I fully accept that we have a brutal and bloody history and we have not learned how to be a globally united species, we still live mainly by 'law of the jungle' doctrine but we are also very, very, very young based on the proposed 13.8 billion years of 'past' time. I will always state to pessimists, anti-life people, doomsters etc 'Give us a fecking chance!' Another million years of science at least!
I am 'eliminative' in many senses. My atheism is of the strong rather than weak flavour and my socialism and humanism run very deep. I agree with the wiki sentence:
Eliminativists argue that, based on these and other criteria, commonsense "folk" psychology has failed and will eventually need to be replaced with explanations derived from the neurosciences. These philosophers therefore tend to emphasize the importance of neuroscientific research as well as developments in artificial intelligence to sustain their thesis.
But, I don't agree that we should reject the idea of self. Again from wiki:
(In fact, on a general view, the history of the eliminativist view can be traced back to David Hume, who rejected the idea of the "self" on the grounds that it was not based on any impression.)
I think few people fit perfectly into any label. The label of socialism has been very abused and misused in the past and continues to be in my opinion.
From wiki:
[b]The robust model of moral realism commits moral realists to three theses:
The semantic thesis: The primary semantic role of moral predicates (such as "right" and "wrong") is to refer to moral properties (such as rightness and wrongness), so that moral statements (such as "honesty is good" and "slavery is unjust") purport to represent moral facts, and express propositions that are true or false (or approximately true, largely false, and so on).
The alethic thesis: Some moral propositions are in fact true.
The metaphysical thesis: Moral propositions are true when actions and other objects of moral assessment have the relevant moral properties (so that the relevant moral facts obtain), where these facts and properties are robust: their metaphysical status, whatever it is, is not relevantly different from that of (certain types of) ordinary non-moral facts and properties.[/b]
Based on this, I have attraction to semantic and alethic moral realism but not its metaphysical flavour as that flavour seems to allow credence for such statements as god is good or god is just.
Quoting Tom Storm
Quoting unenlightened
:lol: The term 'banter is allowed in philosophical discourse,' feeds my optimism and hope towards my fellows. Perhaps the human race is not doomed. From wiki:
[b]Rugged individualism, derived from individualism, is a term that indicates that an individual is self-reliant and independent from outside, usually state or government, assistance. While the term is often associated with the notion of laissez-faire and associated adherents, it was actually coined by United States president Herbert Hoover.
American rugged individualism has its origins in the American frontier experience. Throughout its evolution, the American frontier was generally sparsely populated and had very little infrastructure in place. Under such conditions, individuals had to provide for themselves to survive. This kind of environment forced people to work in isolation from the larger community and may have altered attitudes at the frontier in favor of individualistic thought over collectivism.[/b]
Calling Tom a 'rugged individualist,' is kinda funny!
YEAH I KNOW. I quote from wiki too much and need to reference other sources!
Do you see hitch hikers as rugged individualists, poor people trying to make do, generally dangerous, easy meat, all of the above or just one of your fav examples of what is right (freedom of the open road) or wrong (dependant on the whim of the driver's moral realism)?
I hate emojis. This is my I-hate-emojis thumbs up emoji. Although I like @Tom Storm's answer better.
Oh, to hell then. Jump aboard, we'll be there in no time.
:up:
Lookout for any uninvited hitch hikers on the way, especially if they are undercover metaphysicians! :death: (I like emoji's, they offer a little relief for the typing fingers.)
Looking back through history, Aristotle never used emojis. Neither did Plato, Kant, Knee-chi, or Schopenhauer.
Do you really feel that way Tom or are you having a wee dig at my lazy relationship with punctuation?
I prefer the 'a picture paints a thousand words,' claim.
Edit: Let big Telly confirm;
Edit 2: Big telly suggests a man in a state of quantum superposition in this song, along with the heat death of the Universe just as humans learn how to fly without machines. Who knew?
If the internet and TPF existed around 400 BC, Edit 3: during a plague crisis when aristotle was taught on-line using ?????? ???????? (face time).
Plato: It's all about forms boy, now sit up straight (part of edit 3:) At your computer, and listen to your teacher! :naughty: :angry:
Aristotle: :cry: But sir! it's NOT, NOT, NOT! Its all about IDEALS! :love: :fear: :halo: :flower:
Plato: You are such a child! :roll: To become a man you must listen to your teachers, you must strive to reach the pure form of human, you little shit!
Aristotle: :broken:
I wonder what emoji's Kant, Schopenhauer and Knee who? (Edit 4: Ah! Nietzsche,) would have used if they were TPF members? Waddyafink? :chin:
Edit 5: Too many edits required for this laboured :joke:
Sure, but they never got anywhere. Shakespeare however, when he ran out of neologism, used emojis liberally - :chin: :smile: : :down: :worry: :death: :flower: :confused: :ok:
That's his original draft of 'To be or not to be... '
Too much very important news — notably worldly suffering and tragedy — was overridden/omitted to make available as much newsprint and broadcast-time as possible for the passing of Queen Elizabeth. With all due respect, she's one person, however beloved and special to many people. And I'm far from being the only news-consumer troubled by this clear inequity involving news coverage.
Every time I turned to Canada's national CBC news channel, day or night, it was various forms of this.
A renowned newsman once justly implicated the Western world's news coverage and consuming callousness and imbalance: “A hundred Pakistanis going off a mountain in a bus make less of a story than three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.”
Therefor the verse below I penned:
[i]WITH news-stories’ human subjects’ race and culture dictating
quantity of media coverage of even the poorest of souls,
a renowned newsman formulated a startling equation
justly implicating collective humanity’s news-consuming callousness
— “A hundred Pakistanis going off a mountain in a bus
make less of a story than three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.”
According to this unjust news-media mentality reasonably deduced
five hundred prolongedly-war-weary Middle Eastern Arabs getting blown
to bits in the same day perhaps should take up even less space and airtime.
So readily learned is the tiny token short story buried in the bottom
right-hand corner of the newspaper’s last page, the so brief account
involving a long-lasting war about which there’s virtually absolutely
nothing civil; therefore caught in the warring web are civilians most
unfortunate, most weak, the very most in need of peace and civility.
And it’s naught but business as usual in the damned nations
where such severe suffering almost entirely dominates the
fractured structured daily routine of civilian slaughter
(plus that of the odd well-armed henchman) mostly by means
of bomb blasts from incendiary explosive devices,
rock-fire fragments and shell shock readily shared with freshly shredded
shrapnel wounds resulting from smart bombs sometimes launched for
the stupidest of reasons into crowded markets and grade schools.
Hence where humane consideration and conduct were unquestionably
due post haste came only few allocated seconds of sound bite — a half minute
if news-media were with extra space or time to spare — and one or two
printed paragraphs on page twenty-three of Section C; such news
consumed in the stable fully developed, fully ‘civilized’ Western world
by heads slowly shaking at the barbarity of ‘those people’ in that
war-torn strife which has forced tens of thousands of civilians to post haste
gather what’s left of their shattered lives and limbs and flee.
Thus comes the imminent point at which such meager-measure
couple-column-inches coverage reflects the civil Western readers’
accumulating apathy towards such dime-a-dozen disaster zones
of the globe, all accompanied by a large yawn; then the
said readers subconsciously perceive even greater human-life devaluation
from the miniscule ‘hundreds-dead-yet-again’ coverage.
Consequently continues the self-perpetuation of the token-two-column-inch
(non)coverage as the coldly calculated worth of such common mass slaughter,
ergo those many-score violently lost human lives are somehow worth
so much the less than, say, three Englishmen drowning in the Thames.
Perhaps had they all been cases of the once-persecuted suddenly
persecuting or the once-weak wreaking havoc upon their neighboring indigenous
minorities — perhaps then there’d be far more compassionately just coverage?
The human mind is said to be worth much more than the sum of the
human body’s parts, though that psyche may somehow seem to be of
lesser value if all that’s left is naught but bomb-blast-dismembered body parts.[/i]
I'm yet to meet anyone here in this Commonwealth who cares. The best people can say is she did a 'professional job' whatever that is supposed to mean. Yes, she was a professional martyr to duty - a victim of her caste and someone who again and again surrendered her humanity to play impassive head of state in a world which generally thinks royalty is just another form of reality TV celebrity.
I've thought about it hard. I came to a conclusion. We must be living in a Cartesian simulation. Evolution makes less sense. A simulation makes more sense than evolution. You might ask me who created the creator. I do have some thoughts on that too. What do you think though?
Wese well educated philosophers wonder why the idea of us all living in a simulation keeps coming up. Did somebody make a movie about it, or something?
Well done!
But this western reader has only so much compassion to go around. It isn't that I don't care enough; it's that I can't care enough. One dead queen allows more focus than the 10,000 bad things that happened yesterday.
Besides, the news of the world's disaster won't all fit on the front page. We want our story to be on the top half of the front page, but it takes many pages and miles of column inches (and fairly small print) to briefly mention only some of the disasters.
And then there is theater. QEII's demise was better theater than any bus in Pakistan sliding off the road and plunging into a gorge--in the dark. The dead aboard the bus are a greater sorrow than the death of some elderly Windsor, but "the news" is often more about theater than sorrow.
https://yaleclimateconnections.org/2020/12/what-causes-flowers-to-bloom-in-the-fall/
:up:
Did you get the Knee-chi (Nietzsche) play before me? It struck me just as I was falling asleep last night!
Am gettin slow in ma auld dotage! Surely a rugged individualist like you saw through @T Clark's phonetic word play instantly! Anyway, is it not more phonetically accurate to type knee-che or knee-cha not knee-chi. Perhaps thats why I never got it straight away! That's the excuse I am going with anyway!
:smile: You filosefy foks can be triksy! Evin the ngineery ones
There's a discussion currently underway on this subject:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13359/could-we-be-living-in-a-simulation/p1
For me, this is a sign of one of the major things wrong about the internet. When you and I were growing up, we were further from the news. We heard about what was going on in our area and maybe we heard about what was going on nationally with a little bit of international news. Now, we hear about every bad thing that happened anywhere in the world all day everyday, no matter how trivial. We've lost our perspective about what's really a problem.
Does somebody have you strapped to a chair with your eyes held open by little forks?
Buzz off fuzz nuts.
The news source I've found the most evenhanded and focused on significant issues and events is the Associated Press - AP:
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-news
Has a good balance of political, national, and international news.
I've actually been referring to Politifact pretty frequently. Bypass the news sources and go straight to the fact-o-meter.
Would be Valencia your next destination?
Feels like it yeh.
Good choice indeed. I wish you all the best in your next step :up:
Are you at risk since you're from the UK, or is it just a general unsettledness?
* Things I don't like
Lots of people are leaving Russia, and not just draftable men or foreigners. My wife's parents can't take it any more and are going to Thailand next week; a female (meaning currently not draftable) psychologist I know is leaving the country on Friday; a friend who works for Sberbank has got everything ready for a quick exit with his family up to Murmansk in case of nuclear war; and the young guy who works in my local vape shop is trying to get out of the country but has no money. That's just a tiny snapshot from my very small social circle.
It is inconsiderate to start a new discussion on a subject when there is already one open. Perhaps you'll learn to be considerate when you grow up too.
I think how difficult things must be for people to leave everything they know on a moment's notice.
I've cut back on broadcast media a lot -- got rid of the TV years ago. I've cut back on National Public Radio news too -- not because they talk about crime so much; they have found too many ways of being irritating. The New York Times is my print standby (the "print" being online). The NYT is irritating too.
One of the things that irritates me is when journalists pick up the social justice argot and mix it into every story; so a story on extending sanitary sewers in the suburbs becomes a story about white privilege.
Another problem with the news is that reporters often rely heavily on advocates and advocacy organizations for information. This is the case in reporting on immigration, for instance.
Bitch, bitch, bitch.
It's free.
Gut yontif to you. I'd never heard that before. I shall take this as a blessing upon my travels.
Similarly, after the evening service ushering in a holiday such as Rosh Hashanah, one says either “?ag same’a? (“Happy holiday”) in Hebrew or “Gut yontif” (“Good holiday”) in Yiddish. Yet what does one say when, as has happened this year, the beginning of the holiday is also the beginning of a Sabbath? Just one of the two greetings? Both? And if so, which comes first?
The answer, as many of you already know, is both, with “Shabbat shalom” or “Gut shabes” first, and “?ag same’a?” or “Gut yontif” second. This is in keeping with a fact that Yiddishologist Michael Wex notes in his book “Just Say Nu”: “These greetings are based on a rigid pecking order of holidays, in which Saturday trumps everything except for Yom Kippur.”
I don't know that I agree that Rosh Hashana is a higher holiday than the Sabbath (see, https://www.yeshiva.co/ask/8733). Keeping the Sabbath holy is actually one of the 10 Commandments (although there are actually 613 commandments, and the 10 enumerated aren't any more special as far as I know).
In any event, let us not be literal. Rosh Hashana is a time of new beginnings, being unencumbered by our past, able to make with our lives as we wish. A fresh start.
That means whatever you need it to mean.
As I'm to learn, Rosh Hashana falls on the first day of Fall, based upon a lunar calendar and it varies from the annual calendar, which begins in the Winter, so there are actually two new years in the Jewish calendar, but this one is the holy one for some reason. In terms of lining the whole thing up with creation, that's not a thing apparently.
Anyway, gut yontif everyone! To new beginnings.
And good on ya @Tiff and everyone!
You might be confusing her with the Greek X-rated actress Gorjus Melonis.
How true. Practically everything you see on TV news has a slant. I used to enjoy Shepard Smith on Fox News, but he departed some time ago and I lost track of him about 2015.
Thanks for the link I saved it on with all my other interesting websites.
I guess the monster is human. It's made out of human body parts.
I’m thinking the jury pool might be a bit tainted.
Don’t think I haven’t noticed you sneaking back into TPF after your 4 month break, as if butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth.
Well, Trump is made of human body parts, and he definitely qualifies in the monster category, but he is much uglier that Dr Frankies effort. Frankies effort also made more sense when it spoke!
'Yeearrrghhhh, arrrrghhhhhh rrroooaaaawlllll.' which I am sure meant, 'anyone heard of TPF?'
If Doc Frankie was alive today and did what he did, he would be the greatest scientist who ever lived and would be a very rich, YouTube celeb! Dr Frankie was Italian/Swiss so he could probably beat Giorgia Meloni, or did he make her to.
:clap: That's the spirit. I can't help thinking the world would be a happier place, if more people dealt with liturgical problems by simply announcing them not to be a thing.
True. Also, we simply do not know anything about the source of creation.
I suppose there is some negative knowledge that we have. We know it didn't come as an Amazon delivery. The evidence is that it got to us ok and wasn't left in a parallel universe with a note to say we were out.
Someone is playing dice with our lives!
Does this person have a large white beard?
His skin is red and wears a suit :naughty:
Helloo! I do have a little refrigerator in my mouth for extra butter. You never know when you'll come across a piece of popcorn that needs some.
:grin:
A quay is a dock or pier. A key is an island.
About 98,000 Russians have crossed into Kazakhstan in the week since President Vladimir Putin announced a partial mobilization of reservists to fight in Ukraine, Kazakh officials said Tuesday,
A peninsula is a penis shaped piece of land.
A peninsula, on the other hand, is a penis shaped piece of land.
Would I recommend it? No, not really. Would I go back? No. Why? It's a dump.
https://www.myoldflorida.com/cedar-key.html
Quoting javi2541997
Satan to Santa is just n jumpin over ta.!
Do you think Jesus was always jealous that satan looked so cool in red? :cool:
Is a penis shaped like a chicken called a cock?
Is a piece of land shaped like a vagina, called North or West Varginia? Or is that just down to certain American accents?
Absolutely! I am even jealous myself :yikes:
:up:
People should learn to leave the humor to professionals. There aren't many on the forum. Here's the ranking:
1 - T Clark
2 - Hanover
3 - Bartricks
4 - Hugh G. Rection
5 - Donald Trump Jr.
That's it.
Here's a professional humor tip - Donald Trump Jr. is always funny.
I got shipwrecked on this island and I was crazy lonely until I found this massive vagina. My rescuers forced me to leave, but I still think of her often. I loved her so much.
After my last post of me falling in love with a rock formation resembling a vulva (it's a pet peeve of @Jamal to call it a vagina), the pollsters moved me to #1.
I mean think about a 1000 foot man mounting that mountain with a silly grin on his face. That's some funny shit.
:lol: But seriously, no one with 'Clark' as a surname, has ever ranked high in the history of comedy. Clark's work in banks and sell shoes. I have read that some rebel Clarks try to be other things such as engineers and I suppose that is quite funny.
Has your friend Hugh G Rection ever met my pal Phil M. A. Crackin.
EDIT: Did Hugh G Rection not have a much more convincing twin brother, Hugh E. Rection.
You offer me a list of those who can hardly vibrate a chuckle muscle never mind cause it to convulse into an ecstasy of laughter.
I agree with your comment on Donald Trump Jr but that's just 'laughing at the freaks.'
Laughing at Bartricks would be ok if it wasn't for the worry that I think he/she/? really means what he/she/? types.
Maybe it's the 'T' at the start that makes T Clark funny sometimes, Hanover........ Meh!
I am far too humble, as a complete master, to place myself at the top of the comedy league on TPF.
Here's a picture of big Jock Cox who lived on that island for years until he lost his hair and became a shadow of his former self:
You've misunderstood. The rankings are not based on opinions or preferences. They are actual objective facts established scientifically by theoretical humorists at the University of Delaware Institute for Finding Out Things.
No further questions. I rest my case.
Yeah, you must be tired, comedy is a tough gig, have a good loooooooooooooong rest!
Perhaps you two have found gods two fav Earth hangouts, when he tried to intelligently design a woman!
Quick phone the evanhellicals!
Surely some place near you looks like a body part!
I wrote this song about it:
I know what you're thinking: I can say some really stupid shit, but when it comes to writing music, I kick ass.
I hate to break it to you Bobby, but you didn't write that one.
Is that mountain from Philippines?
Nice, but your drums sound like they're being played in a stairwell or something.
Help ma boab! What's a piece o land that looks like a boaby called in Scotland?
Perhaps @Jamal would translate for you
Can you spot it below: Clue: Its isle of scrotum is falling off.
No, it's in China. Did you know I'm part Filipino? Or was that a random guess?
Maybe the stairway to heaven is there!
It was a random guess. I don't know why but the pic remembered me of the chocolate hills of Philippines.
Just as the hand has many fingers, God gives us many boobs.
Yeah, Arran's ok, not exactly Glasgow night life but ok by island folk standard.
They should try to stick it back on to the peninsular however then perhaps the folks there would stop singing 'mull of Kintyre' as the dirge it is!
Btw do you agree that naebdy does bobby like the Scots dae bobby.
Robert, rob, robbie, rab, rabbie, bert, bob, bobby ...... ten bob ..... boab ...... boaby ....... bawbee ..... @Hanover to:
The cream of the Scottish enlightenment debating the benefits of control over the bawbee:
It doesn't seem fair that Arran missed being one of the Inner Hebrides by a couple of miles.
You disagree that Arran missed being one of the Hebrides by a couple of miles or that it's unfair.
I've always been interested in the Hebrides. It probably started when I read a bunch of Hamish Macbeth books. Them highland Scots are a hardscrabble bunch. (The islands are considered part of the highlands, aren't they?) My brother-in-law and his family lived on Mull for a few years before they moved to the Falklands in the early 80s. Good timing.
Both!
Quoting T Clark
Most of them sometimes.
As I see it, if West Loch were a couple of miles longer, the peninsula that separates Arran from the Inner Hebrides would be an island. Then they would both be included. QED.
I'll accept your judgement of the fairness.
But Kintyre in reality is a peninsula (a penis-like peninsula, as universeness has pointed out) and it separates the islands of Arran and Bute etc from the others. Hey, I didn’t make the rules.
Arran is sometimes known as Scotland in miniature because the southern half is low hills and the northern half is rocky mountains.
Alas, tis true.
et al,
"Creation" is one of those terms that actually requires imagination to have any meaning.
(COMMENT)
Every product manufactured on Earth comes from raw materials out of the Earth. And the materials that make up the Earth came from the stars. And from that point on, regressive comprehension becomes a matter of probability in particle physics. A Hydrogen Atom has one electron. From that moment, the electron is not a particle (but rather a wave smeared around the atom) in no particular place until you detect it. We know [AKA Pretty Sure (high probability)] that there are various subatomic particles (Quarks, Leptons, Bosons) based on what we detected from collider tests, that came into existence with the surge of energy in what we call the Big Bang. Any talk of multiple universes or parallel universes is just that - talk (albeit interesting talk). We do not have any evidence to that effect.
Most Respectfully,
R
Scotland, Georgia.
[i]“Security Alert for U.S. Citizens in Russia U.S. Embassy Moscow, Russia (September 27, 2022) ”
“Event: On September 21, the Russian government began a mobilization of its citizens to the armed forces in support of its invasion of Ukraine.”
“Russia may refuse to acknowledge dual nationals’ U.S. citizenship, deny their access to U.S. consular assistance, prevent their departure from Russia, and conscript dual nationals for military service. ”
“Commercial flight options are extremely limited at present and are often unavailable on short notice. Overland routes by car and bus are still open.”
“If you wish to depart Russia, you should make independent arrangements as soon as possible. The U.S. Embassy has severe limitations on its ability to assist U.S. citizens, and conditions, including transportation options, may suddenly become even more limited.”
“U.S. citizens should not travel to Russia and those residing or travelling in Russia should depart Russia immediately while limited commercial travel options remain.”
“The Department of State provides information on commercial travel on the Information for U.S. Citizens in Russia – Travel Options Out of Russia page on travel.state.gov. ”
“This site also provides information on requirements for entering neighboring countries, procedures for travel on expired U.S. passports in some circumstances, and visa requirements for families with American and Russian citizen family members.”
“We remind U.S. citizens that the right to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression are not guaranteed in Russia.”
“Avoid all political or social protests and do not photograph security personnel at these events. Russian authorities have arrested U.S. citizens who have participated in demonstrations.”[/i]
Also:
[i]On Tuesday, September 27, the Bulgarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs advised all of its citizens to urgently leave the territory of Russia.
They were urged to use all possible means of movement in connection with the current complicated travel situation in the country.[/i]
Quoting Jamal
As a whisky lover, I have some attraction to T Clarks suggestion. I personally think the best whisky made on Arran can hardly compete with the average whisky made in the inner Hebridean islands such as Islay or Sky. I also prefer the whisky's from Campbeltown (capital of Kintyre) compared to Arran.
If Arran was pushed back onto Kintyre and an enormous kilt was built over the whole thing, then I think we would get a lot more female tourism on the west coast, (true Scotsman finally confirmed.) BUT if Arran was part of the Inner Hebrides, then the Islay influence alone could improve their whisky making skills no end. Then, Arran folk wouldn't need to rely on chasing sheep to knit so many Arran cardigans and jumpers to sell to mainlanders so they can feed themselves in the winter when times are hard.
Quoting Jamal
Hah! Try suggesting to an Orcadian or a Shetlander that they are Scottish. Most of them want to join with the Viking Scandies!
Have you ever been to an 'Up hally aa' festival in the Shetlands:
Scary times! I hope @Jamal's next post on TPF is sent on his journey away from Russia.
Things are either going to get much, much worse for everyone or a little better over the next week or so.
Hey you guys! Stop stealing our names for stuff and ...... and ...... places man! That's just buuuuuullllllll SHIT! Choose your own f****** names, aint you got no originalities left?
The Orkneys and Shetlands are not part of the Hebrides.
Sorry, I didn't realise it was only islands to the side you liked and not islands at the top.
When I was a wee lad (that means "little kid" in Scottish), I had a Shetland Sheepdog. His name was Skip. He use to visit his mum (that's what he called her, being British) in the Shetland Islands every couple of years. I think that's where he went. Maybe he just wandered the neighborhood. Dogs use to do that in days of old. Now we have to keep them in a fence or the neighbors get pissed off.
There's a really good chance that the name was provided by some Scottish settlers, so you got no one to blame but yourself.
Give them a chance. The distillery's only been there since 1995.
Quoting universeness
Flight to Baku booked.
According to Clarky's post above, the US security alert seems to be focused on dual nationals, but it does seem to be urging all US citizens to leave. The UK government is still just telling me I should leave if I don't have to be here. I don't know what's up with the Bulgarians.
Only a gay Scottish sheepdog would be called skip (or perhaps a tough one brought up in Australia).
Quoting Hanover
I'm not sure what a 'British' dog is. I would imagine a British sheepdog living in the Shetlands would be very confused.
Quoting Hanover
Stop makin excuses man! All American place (Amerigo Vespucci, oh come on!) names should legally have to be approved by the native peoples who managed to survive. Don't go with those early settlers from Scotland and Ireland, they were all wacked out on scooby snacks and bad whisky. The native names are the coolest by far, like Wyoming, Dakota, Idaho, etc 'New York', 'New England', 'America', time to change those boring names.
Still, I suppose it could have been worse, You could be living in Columbusland.
Do they sell Cumberland sausage?
Most highlanders hate the name Cumberland, due to a fat prick called the Duke of Cumberland.
Yeah but:
"Early in the 19th century there were more than 50 whisky distilleries on Arran, most of them illegal and carefully hidden from the eyes of the taxmen. The malt was acclaimed at the time as the best in Scotland, only rivalled by those from the ‘Glen of Livet’."
So, they have a lot of history with the Uisce beatha, 1995 means they should at least have an excellent 18-year-old single malt. I will keep trying any new batch that comes my way however. C'mon Arran!
Quoting Jamal
An early flight I hope, they could close the borders any day now, according to the news channels here.
Wow! That building in the background looks like something out of 'War of the Worlds!'
If that's what they're saying then I hope it's just exaggeration. The news I've seen is that they might soon close the borders to men who are eligible for the draft, which they haven't done yet; I'll still be able to leave in that case.
Yeh, maybe Baku has a space port.
Ah, that's ok then. That IS what they are reporting here, sorry, I should have been more accurate.
Quoting Jamal
The way things are just now, if you could leave the planet for a while right now, I think many would chose to do so. I always thought the cuban missile crisis was the closest we got to M.A.D but..........
Maybe the human race has to hang right over the precipice before we actually unite and find a better way. How many have to die horribly first? I think we will get there but the cost! The terrible cost! :broken:
A new life awaits you in the off-world colonies. A chance to begin again in a golden land of opportunity and adventure!
That's a strange description of Govan! Or were you thinking of the Gallowgate!
You may not know that Columbus Day (October 10, 2022) has become a contested event in the US. Some of the contestants are actually native people from Ronkonkoma, NY or Watonwan, MN, but most are the descendants of European oppressors who get a .005% discount on their guilt feelings by opposing an event which Italian Americans (and many non-Italians are very proud of and happy about.
In fourteen hundred ninety-two
Columbus sailed the ocean blue,
We all learned this ditty in the little red school house.
What the kiddies are evidently supposed to be learning nowadays is the history and sin of European imperialistic, genocidal colonialism (which is also racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist, etcist).
What can we say?
Up with Columbus Day. And up with Ronkonkoma and Dakota, the Illini(ois) and Chief Keokuk.
Typical burgher superiority, just cause they have a big feck off castle! Us Weegies will wan day build a better wan, well maybies aye, maybies naw!
The American Embassy warned Americans to get out while they still could. Once there are no flights / trains / buses out, and no open exit stations, then there won't be much that can be done to help you. Formerly rich, slim, tall, literary, urban Americans trapped in Russia will be changed overnight into short, stocky inarticulate peasants who will do what they're told OR ELSE.
You don't want to have that happen to you.
Plus people from Glasgow get to call themselves Glaswegians.
It was put best by whoever said:
"When they came, we had the land and they had their god. Soon after, they had our land and we had their god."
Columbus was an opportunist in search of wealth and status.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Quoting Bitter Crank
Quoting Bitter Crank
Quoting Bitter Crank
Much cooler words that those offered in English.
On Columbus day, I will ponder the holocaust perpetrated against all native peoples and will hope that we don't suffer the same fate by any visiting aliens in the future.
Perhaps all future Americans will make sure all surviving native peoples are treated very well and each future Columbus day will be used to find ways to restore and celebrate as much indigenous culture as is possible, alongside American culture.
Perhaps citizens of the UK are not the ones who should be giving lectures on the morals of mistreating indigenous people.
That's ok! A man's a man for a that!
Quoting T Clark
Best you ask citizens of the UK. I am Scottish and If I was lecturing, I would be in a university in front of students. I type from a position of not personally having mistreated any indigenous people, so try not to flap around with meaningless generalities that try to dilute the crimes of one group by comparing with the 'just as bad' crimes of another group. Such responses in no way reduce the validity of the statements I have posted so far regarding the holocaust of the native peoples of America.
It wisnae me sir, it wis him, he started it.!
Scotland is currently in Britain and the UK and it was intimately involved in the project of Empire, in its administration and its battles and in benefiting from its spoils.
Devine, T.M. (ed.), 'The Spoils of Empire', in Tom Devine (ed.), Scotland and the Union 1707-2007
Scots are citizens of the UK and were citizens of Great Britain during the empire. Scots emigrated to the new world, Australia, India, and all the other places the British Empire gobbled up. Scots participated in all the various genocides and all the various wars.
I am a Scot that advocates against that current state of affairs and will continue to do so. I did not take part in any of the events you mention, and I also believe that Scotland's role in past horrors must be fully admitted, and all efforts must be made to help those peoples abroad and at home who we helped abuse in the past. I am innocent of those crimes but I am not innocent of the legacy and would actively participate in any future atonement and support any feasible call for reparation.
I know, but I didn't and I type from that perspective.
I reject the term united kingdom and I reject the term 'Britain.' The term 'Great' Britain is an embarassing joke to me. I have absolutely no commonality with the concept of 'British' it means absolutely nothing to me and it never has been any part of my personal identity. I dont give a damn about what any legal document identifies me as. I am Scottish, European, Earthling, Human but not British!
As for Kingdom, Hah! He's no King of mine just like his mother was no Queen of mine.
There is no religious angle to that rejection. I reject all monarchy and aristocracy.
Interesting article from April this year about Glasgow’s links to the slave trade:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/01/glasgow-apologises-for-role-in-slave-trade-saying-its-tentacles-are-in-every-corner-of-city
Given this, and given also your strong Glaswegian identity, can it be an adequate response to say “it wasn’t me!”?
Maybe it can, I’m not sure.
I like to think that I would have fought and killed Scots who were involved in the slave trade.
I think there is no harm in trying to see ourselves in honourable ways but I also always take note of:
O wad some power the gift tae gie us
Tae see oorsels as ithers see us.
So who knows what I would have done if I had lived in those times.
Quoting Jamal
I can only type for myself. I do not feel any personal responsibility, but I feel very ashamed of parts of Scots history. I am also astounded at Scotland's contribution to science, politics, philosophy etc considering our size and population and the fact that we had to deal with a very powerful acrimonious neighbour.
Our involvement in the slave trade was intense and we must make all the details of our involvement fully available to all. It should be turned into historical documentaries for all Scots to learn about.
Names, places, events, dates, everything that's known and then the plunder in our museums etc should be returned and our government must do all they can within our economy to make what amends we can to those countries in Africa and places like India etc that we helped pillage.
Even if it takes hundreds of years, we MUST try to repair some of the damage we did or else our phenomenal achievements will be forever soiled.
The Americans need to do the same as do most other European countries imo.
I have no hatred towards the English (apart from historically), they have to deal with an even more horrific world stage legacy.
I enjoy being challenged on my views so please keep doing so if you see where I should be and need to be challenged. If I cannot defend my viewpoints then I cannot and will not sustain them, I will change a viewpoint if it is proven to be unfounded or even just hanging from a very shoogly peg.
In a generalized way I think we can admit we inherit the consequences of the bad decisions and good decisions of our ancestors, but to describe those consequences as inherited sin and guilt presents an unjust justice system, especially when we attempt to increase the level of guilt based upon the closeness of our genetic coding to the original sinner.
This is to simply say that because grandpa Hanover was a cattle rustler says nothing more of present day Hanover than any other present day person.
What if you now live in the house that grandpa Hanover bought with his ill-gotten gains?
The remedy to the victim would include return of the ill gotten gains, but victims, like sinners with guilt, don't inherit their victimization from their parents either.
This isn't to turn a blind eye to remedial justice if there exists someone disadvantaged today by past injustices, but it is to eliminate any suggestion that today's beneficiaries of yesterday's injustice are immoral.
So, to take my current house and give it the victim's grandson on the basis of my inherited guilt would simply create a new victim in place of an old one and it would advance an unjust justice system.
Whatever remedy we choose to rectify current injustice caused by past injustice needs to be focused on that pragmatic concern, without resort to declaring a purely innocent person guilty of something his grandfather did.
More on ancestral guilt: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancestral_sin
This is an interesting discussion, but it seems like we're about to take over the Shoutbox. Thoughts?
Quoting universeness
Quoting universeness
So, you sit in judgement of modern Americans and deny your own complicity. There's a name for that. First letter - H. Nine letters. Ok, if that makes you feel all good about yourself.
This all well and good, as long as we can justly claim that we gain no ongoing benefit from yesterday's injustice. I think that's the heart of the matter. The Supreme Court just gave half of Oklahoma back to the American Indians because it was taken from them in violation of a legally ratified treaty. Something similar happened in Massachusetts and all they gave the tribes was the right to open some casinos. I guess for tribes with no treaties it's tough luck.
And that doesn't take into account black Americans.
Quoting Hanover
Perhaps I would agree if those "purely innocent" people recognized and acknowledged history and its consequences.
What if you own property and art that was taken from Jews back in 1940? Perfectly legal back then and it was someone else who took the stuff and the original owners are dead anyway...
More and more you see claims from countries that want the return of heritage and artistic items which were taken centuries ago by imperialist nations.
I don't have an answer to where one draws the line all of these matters.
Past performance is no guarantee of future results, but I wouldn't count on it.
Before the British civilized the Scots they were barely past the barbarian stage of development, occasionally skinning captives alive. just ask Hugh de Cressingham.
Quoting universeness
Yes, well... wouldn't we all.
Quoting universeness
I also type from a position of not personally having mistreated any indigenous people. Most living Americans can say that. That isn't to say Native Americans are being treated splendidly, but much of the grievous damage that was done to their persons and their culture was carried out by European and American settlers long deceased. And yes indeed, it was American policy to get rid of the Indians so that we (Americans and European settlers) could have their land.
In the long big picture of the species, population movement, population replacement, conquest, colonization, and so on are de regueur. We civilized people don't do those things anymore, of course (no?) but it is worthwhile to remember that "civilized" is not a terribly reliable or enduring cultural trait.
If (and when) it becomes very inconvenient to maintain the civilized shell, niceties will be dispensed with.
I don't approve of our inchoate or brazen barbarity, but let us not pretend that we are now so refined that we just couldn't behave badly ever again!
That seems like a pretty dubious claim--in the same way that the Russian sponsored and administered referendum in eastern parts of Ukraine are "legal". The Nazis did what they wanted with their own "legal" code, but without total victory they couldn't annul the laws of conquered nations or international law. Furthermore, they lost the war, and in losing the war lost the opportunity to make their view of "legal" stick.
Hitler found American policy toward indigenous people quite inspiring; what was not to like about genocide and concentration camps/reservations.
I don't know what the legal status (in European terms) was of native people from 1620 onward. Apparently the US Government recognized the legitimacy of native claims because treaties were concluded granting tribes formal legal status. That didn't stop us from ignoring the treaties before the ink was dry, and I don't think anyone was prosecuted for killing Indians until when -- the 20th century?
Here in Spain, we celebrate Columbus day not because the supposed "holocaust" but the proud of Spanish nation and language. Presidents from Latin America come to the ceremony, except if they are communist. To be honest, I think it is insulting giving the concept of "genocide" on 1492 historical feat in a serious website like this one.
I recommend you to stop spreading the so called "Black legend" on the history of my country, please.
Examples:
The old President of Chile and the King of Spain cheering about Columbus day. We guess the current president would not come this year because he is communist.
NY city. A parade cheering with the different flags from the Hispanic world.
Perú... literally with the flag of the Spanish empire.
I once read an article written by a conservative columnist in the Boston Globe, a strong supporter of Israel. He claimed that God's judgement in Genesis, written 3,500 years ago, was adequate justification for the Jewish people's claim to Palestine.
Yes. Maybe I should have put the words in inverted commas - would that have worked? I often assume people get the tone I mean things in. Foolish...
My grandma following the war held much the same view.
I don't know why, but I love this sentence.
That's very interesting. It does throw some doubt on my view that the universe was not an Amazon delivery.
Only those Americans that don't accept the same 'national legacy of responsibility,' that I concur with.
I am not personally responsible because I have not abused any native peoples. You seem to be struggling to understand that. The legacy of responsibility I am typing about was exemplified by @Jamal's line, Quoting Jamal
Many of the buildings in Glasgow and its infrastructure, for example, merchant city etc was built on the proceeds of slavery. The so called 'tobacco' lords of Glasgow were heavily involved in abusing native peoples. I have never been involved in the slave trade and I have never been a tobacco lord.
This is not about personal nationality, it's about national historical legacy.
Quoting T Clark
This would mean something to me if it was based on rational argument, but so far, I have found your analysis of my position and viewpoint on this topic, irrational.
Columbus is in reality a footnote. He was interested in obtaining status and wealth for himself and his family. He is merely a character involved at the beginning of the holocaust perpetrated on native peoples globally. Spain has much more to answer for in regards to much more historically guilty characters such as Pizarro, Cortes and the conquistadors. Do you celebrate a Pizarro day or a Cortes day?
You show your ignorance of the history of these islands. If you demonstrated accurate historical knowledge of the various peoples that have held power in these islands, then I would engage you in an exchange on the topic but your quote above places you in the category of 'ignorant' on your knowledge of the topic.
Yes, we do. Because they are historical figures of my country. I don't understand when you say "Spain has much to answer for". Should we the Spaniards look for apologies about the Muslim empire when they were in the Peninsula? The Roman Empire too?
Quoting universeness
What holocaust? Do you have proofs in that? My ancestors literally mixed up with all the tribes living in America...
I am not suggesting that the buildings in Glasgow built on the proceeds of human slavery, or built on the profits of the use and abuse of the indigenous labour forces used by the tobacco lords of Glasgow, should be given to the nations where these native peoples come from. I am suggesting that Scotland should assist such nations in anyway they can, to help their people and country develop and flourish. That is the kind of reparation I am typing about. Apology, recognition, military, economic, scientific, medical and technical support. I am not suggesting you give your house to the families of the ancestor's you grandfather abused. We should return any historical items we have in our museums that we plundered or stole from other nations. The French hold historical books/documents which should be returned to Scotland. The elgin marbles should be returned to Greece, all the Egyptian stuff that was stolen by the French and British etc should be returned, etc, etc.
It seems to me that you agree with my viewpoints on this issue more than you disagree but you have some bizarre national pride piffle going on in your head between 'Scottishness' and 'Americanness.'
Try to understand that my chosen handle for this site was 'universeness,' not 'anally retentive proud Scotsman.'
I think BC was winding you up. At least I hope so. He has some outrageous opinions but that’s going too far.
The moors and the Iberian Christian kingdoms were technically equal adversaries, there is historical balance there. The Romans were also equal adversaries but did have some technical advantages that they used to full effect. Such examples do not compare to using guns against bows, arrows and spears etc. If your target people have no chance at defending themselves against your technology, then you deserve the accusation of atrocity, holocaust, ethnic cleansing, cultural slaughter etc.
Is the concept of a fair honourable fight not one of your bushido tenets?
If your samurai had machine guns and used them to defeat all peoples around them who were armed with swords only, would you still revere them as you do?
I am sure you know Mr Bitter better than I do. He can always clarify if he wants to.
I have no problem with windups but if they become indistinguishable from your real opinions then you risk the 'boy who cried wolf too many times,' situation.
[quote= e e cummings]ygUDuh
ygUDuh
ydoan
yunnuhstan
ydoan o
yunnuhstand dem
yguduh ged
yunnuhstan dem doidee
yguduh ged riduh
ydoan o nudn
LISN bud LISN
dem
gud
a.m
lidl yelluh bas
tuds weer goin
duhSIVILEYEzum[/quote]
The Iberian population were not Christian. They were pagan. I disagree about if they would be balanced equally... Romans and Moors were stronger and that's why they conquered the Peninsula. Simple. The strongest eat the weakest.
Quoting universeness
Hmmm... look I will not keep in this discussion because I think you lack of historical facts and proofs.
Quoting universeness
Different times = Different causes.
Initially yes, based on:
The history of Spain dates to the Antiquity when the pre-Roman peoples of the Mediterranean coast of the Iberian Peninsula made contact with the Greeks and Phoenicians and the first writing systems known as Paleohispanic scripts were developed. During Classical Antiquity, the peninsula was the site of multiple successive colonizations of Greeks, Carthaginians, and Romans. Native peoples of the peninsula, such as the Tartessos people, intermingled with the colonizers to create a uniquely Iberian culture. The Romans referred to the entire Peninsula as Hispania, from where the modern name of Spain originates.
Then we get to:
the Umayyad conquest of Hispania began in 711 and marked the introduction of Islam to the Iberian Peninsula. The region became known as Al-Andalus, and excepting for the small Kingdom of Asturias, a CHRISTIAN rump state in the north of Iberia
and then we get to:
[b]Christians from the north gradually expanded their control over Iberia, a period known as the Reconquista. As they expanded southward, a number of Christian kingdoms were formed, including the Kingdom of Navarre (a Basque kingdom centered on the city of Pamplona), the Kingdom of León (in the northwest, originally an offshoot of, and later supplanting, the Kingdom of Asturias), the Kingdom of Castile (in central Iberia), and the Kingdom of Aragon (in Catalonia and surrounding areas of Eastern Iberia). The history of these kingdoms and other are intertwined and they eventually consolidated into two roughly equivalent polities, the Crown of Castile and the Crown of Aragon, roughly occupying the central and eastern thirds of the Iberian Peninsula respectively. During this period, the southwestern portion of the Peninsula developed into the Kingdom of Portugal, and developed its own distinct national identity separate from that of Spain.
The early modern period is generally dated from the union of the Crowns of Castile and Aragon under the Catholic Monarchs, Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon in 1469. This marked what is historiographically considered the foundation of unified Spain, although technically Castile and Aragon continued to maintain independent institutions for several centuries.[/b]
Right back at you!
Quoting javi2541997
People who offer poor excuses for atrocious historical behaviour by the historical Spanish nation. :roll:
Britain was their greatest enemy at times but only in the sense of one gangster power base at war with another one. The controlling monarchies and aristocracies of Spain, Britain, France etc were all intermarried mafioso families, fighting over wealth, power and influence on the world stage. They used their populations of poor people as their war fodder. We need to see way past the BS historical pageantry and religious fervour BS such as the divine right of kings and see through to the bunch of vile gangsters these abominable historical authorities were.
Poor Tartessos! :cry: colonizers as Romans, Greeks, Carthaginians, Moors, etc... are guilty for destroying the native culture! Should I ask apologies to Italy or Greece? Nah... I rather crying out in "life sucks" thread :rofl:
Quoting universeness
But the citizens of those monarchies are not guilty of anything... I will not apologise for being Spaniard.
I did not suggest YOU should personally apologise, nor did I suggest that I should personally apologise for being born Scottish. I would apologise culturally or historically as an innocent 'representative' of my nation's historicity, but I would also fervently push Scotland's phenomenal contributions to world science, politics, philosophy etc. I am sure you would gladly do the same for Spain's positive contribution to the world.
This is about nationhood apology based on historical atrocities committed under national identity.
Any official apologies given would be delivered by those in power at the time. The apologies would be cultural and would be based on a wish to unite our race and demonstrate a wish to enhance and nurture a benevolent global humanism. Historical hatred and bitterness is a cancer that will always fester if it is simply ignored. Admitting there is a problem is the first step to finding a solution.
Here is Nicola Sturgeon apologising for historical atrocities:
Here is a small example of what we need a lot more of:
I am sure there are many Spanish families alive today that can trace their ancestry back to tribes like the Tartessos. Many Scots are very proud, when they can trace their origins back to a clan or/and earlier Scottish tribes such as the Picts. The Picts were not in fact wiped out, as is sometimes suggested, they united with the Gaels and took the name Scoti. The name of Scotland is derived from the Latin Scoti, the term applied to Gaels. The union was based on marriages and the tradition at the time was to follow the matriarchal line for names. A Picti leader marries a Gaelic princess, and the merged groups take up the matriarchal name line 'Scoti.'
Edit: Actually, there are very few records available from the days of the Picts or the Tartessos, so very few people would be able to trace their ancestry back as far as that. But from a genetic hereditary standpoint, they are still with us. So probably are hominid species such as the neandertals!
There are more positive contributions made than negative acts or destructions. It is not worthy to only see the negative spectrum of each nation. It doesn't seem to be a useful path to take part of.
We cannot see the past with the eyes of modern times. What you call atrocity now it was "military strategy" back in the day. For example: Roman Empire allowed to teenagers (between 12 and 14 years old) to get married with old men or women. In nowadays, you would say that's paedophilia right?
Quoting universeness
That's demagogic as hell...
Quoting universeness
The Basques are a good example. They share a similar heritage to Scottish and Irishmen.
Subjective opinion, do I agree with you on this point ........ meh!
Quoting javi2541997
I have typed about the positive and negative historical record of Scotland, so in what way do I 'only see the negative spectrum of each nation'? Do I have to list all my positive impressions of the historical Spain or the historical America to better balance the equation for you?
Quoting javi2541997
Those who ignore the mistakes of history are doomed to repeat them! Yes old men marrying young children is paedophilia. If a terrorist blows up children attending a music concert, would you call that military strategy? If roman soldiers slaughter captives, would you excuse that with the label 'military strategy'? How much of a protective umbrella do you wish this 'military strategy,' term to have against accusations of atrocity? Was it a good defence at the Nuremberg trials?
Quoting javi2541997
What thought processes are you employing to conclude this?
Quoting javi2541997
Yeah, good ol Basques. Should they get their independence along with the Catalonians?
Did the Basques also give us:
Justice would require that we all have a reasonable means for achievement based upon individual merit as unencumbered by chance benefits as reasonably possible (with an emphasis on "reasonable"), but the concept of absolute equality at birth isn't possible or I think even preferable.
You have benefits based upon your race, no doubt, but your benefits go far beyond that. That you were born in the US, especially in a very educated and progressive state offers you significant advantage. That you were born to certain parents, that your genetics are what they are, that you were born in peacetime, that you and your community had resources for your advancement, etc etc all led you to the level of success you have. None of those things were based upon a single decision you made.
The best I think we can wish to achieve is to create a system where success can come to those who make good decisions, with the obvious understanding that Rockefellers will see greater success than Joneses and Smiths even when the two make the same decisions.
What I don't think will lead to greater societal successes and happiness is the constant reminder that some have unfair advantages over others and that we need to constantly be redistributing resources to account for that. And I realize that I do come from a place of privilege here, but I'm not a Senator's son either, which means that I think we have to accept the world is unfair and it will be regardless of how we try to sledge hammer fairness upon it. I am less concerned that a Smith cannot live like a Rockefeller than I am that a Smith must live like a pauper.
Quoting T Clark
The right to possess land can only be defined within a fixed system of agreed upon laws, but I don't know how you can justify the right to possess land outside that system.
For example, I can say I properly have the right to possess my house because I went through the deed process and I acquired it pursuant to law, but that's as far as I can go.
That is, I can't say I some inherent right to possess my land based upon the Revolutionary War resulting in the seizure of British territory that had been previously declared a colony by a decree of the King because someone would rightfully ask why such a process is an inherently valid method for acquiring land. I also don't see why a Cherokee Indian who challenges the European method of land acquisition has the right to come and demand my house just because his great great grandfather touched that piece of land before mine did. I also don't know what sort of pre-Cherokee peoples occupied my land before that, and I don't believe that some other vanquished peoples whose descendants can be found in a remote South American village have the right to be re-established in my living room.
The point being that the "right" of a people to occupy land (outside a fixed legal system) isn't answerable, and any argument that a certain people don't have that right and ought be removed in favor of the just owners is suspect.
It is for that reason that your Indian treaty example makes sense here. The US Courts haven't declared that the Native Americans have an inherent right to the land based upon a natural law right to possess ancestral lands, but they're just saying that land was taken in violation of the actual written and agreed upon law within its borders and the deeding process wasn't properly followed.
Plot twist: Basques no longer want to get the independence of Spain. They want to be part of the state and they feel Spanish more than ever.
If you do not trust me, look this statistics:
40 % of the population of Basque feel Spanish and Basque. Only a 19 % feels "only basque" and a 41 % of the population are against independence.
El apoyo a la independencia en el País Vasco, en mínimos históricos
Catalonia is another story... :mask:
Quoting universeness
Because some politicians play the role of "good hearts" and redeemers just for political purposes.
If a person is proud to be an American, it's probably because of historic decisions that play out in the present. Being ashamed of being American can be the same thing. It's not due to taking responsibility for past crimes, it's that part of one's identity is a country that's both genius and beast.
It's ok to be ashamed in spite of being personally innocent. It's part of the country's redemption? A reason to be humble? A reason to be committed to the ways things have changed? Especially when there's still a lot of racism, as in the UK and the US.
I guess the psychology of a person can play out however it might peculiar to the person, so there might be a person whose patriotic pride was rooted in the naive belief that the original founders were morally perfect only to now learn they were not and they therefore now feel shame.
Or, as would the case be with me, my patriotism is rooted in the expression of the ideal. That there are
and were those who fail and continue to fail to meet those ideals is obvious, but me feeling shame for the fact that Jefferson was a slave owner or Trump is what Trump is, for example, would be a strange thing for me to burden myself with.
Yeah, but there is also the old comment "There are lies, damn lies and then statistics."
I will wait to hear from actual Basque groups.
Quoting javi2541997
Have you gained enough information regarding Nicola Sturgeon to justify your accusation that she is a demagog? If so, then offer it, as I think she is an excellent and honest politician.
:smile: :up:
You can feel anger towards their personal hypocrisy rather than feel personal shame.
I fluctuate between these two emotions when I consider particular detailed examples of known historical Scots who are revealed to have actually behaved atrociously during their lives and the honourable legacy, they claimed to have left, is actually fake and contrived.
It's important that our role models of the future are not fatally flawed, flawed is ok, to err is human, but not practising what you preach at the most fundamental level should remove you from any future historical celebration of your life and legacy. Your life and legacy should instead, be added to the historical list of cautionary tales.
I also appreciate the good stuff and frown at the bad, but I also feel connected to Lincoln, the Roosevelts, NASA, etc. Maybe it's lame to gather them up as parts of who I am as an American.
I think you're emotionally mature to avoid that kind of blurring between your self and your nationality. I don't tend to be that mature, so I have to take the Trump with the Martin Luther King Jr.
I'm nothing if not mature.
I know. I can't remember what a peninsula is.
You seem to be struggling to understand that, to the extent you still benefit from the behavior of the British Empire, you still share responsibility. You'll probably say that you don't benefit, but the entire economy of the UK is built on a foundation of lives and resources stolen from around the world. In the US, it's more obvious since our racial history still stares us in the face on a daily basis.
We wouldn't be talking about this if you didn't set off pontificating self-righteously about how bad it is here in the US. Your arguments are the same as those used by white Americans to disclaim responsibility.
Try to understand that my objections are to your self-satisfied certainty.
As I noted in my responses to Universeness, I am participating in this conversation is mostly because of his self-righteous pomposity. That being said, if redistributing resources isn't the correct mechanism, and I think you're right that it probably isn't, what is?
I don't want to mind your own business but I disagree. The issue is more complex than just say that "European countries are rich because they stole all the resources back then". Well the spectrum of colonialism has different perspectives.
According to your point, I should share "responsibility" because of the Spanish empire and inquisition and therefore how the economy is built "thanks to the resources of Latin America"
Well that's flawed because the economy of Spain is soft and I am (and will be) probably poorer than you because the wages of Spain are clearly lower than the US. So... where are the benefits of being born in an old empire? I don't see it...
Those resources such as gold, cocoa, silver, etc... were only taken advantage of a few of Spanish bourgeois. The population never perceived benefits. They were poor and died in misery working as slaves for their landowners.
In the other hand. It depends on the territory we are talking about. When the "conquistadors" landed in some territories as "Cook islands" or "Dominican Republic" there wasn't anything of value. The discovery was just islands full of monkeys and coconuts...
You are taking offense to the rhetorical device of hyperbole, something one might employ in the Shoutbox. True enough, I am not well informed about the history of Scotland. I shall add your native land to my list of targets for further study, should I have time before the grave.
I have a more granular grasp of England's ancient history, going forward from Rome. In my defense of deficient facts about the lands of the Scots, I'll say that the more deep trenches one digs in history, the smaller the territory one can cover. So skin me alive; my old skin is thin and loose, so it will be an easy task.
You come across to me as some kind of bitter and twisted personality. Your arrogance reminds me of an aristocratic attitude. The points you make are just sour and insulting. So, I respond in kind. If you wish to exchange viewpoints with me then you will have to improve your approach or else you should avoid doing so.
Fair enough, but you have mistaken my incredulous response to your comment about the British civilising the Scots, for one of personal offense towards you, of which I have none. In the same way I have none towards T Clark. I simply find his discourse to be full of exactly what he accuses me of, pomposity and arrogance.
I can be as 'tongue in cheek' as anyone else within the less reserved shout box but I will certainly respond negatively to something like,
Quoting universeness
As a 'tongue in cheek' comment or an attempted windup, I consider the response you would get if you uttered such in a Glasgow pub to a bunch of Glaswegian males. The result would either be your complete ridicule or a physical assault on you or in days of old, you might even suffer a similar fate to Huge de Cressingham. Even old skin can make a good sheath for a highland warrior's dirk. I am only making a shout box joke of course. But anyway, I forgive your slight of the Scots based on shout box flex and that as a modern Scot, I dont want to give the impression that anyone who insults the Scots or Scotland should be 'skinned alive.' :death:
The Scots are most kind and generous.
I liked Scotland more than I did England, having nothing to do with the culture, the food, or even the friendliness of the people. It was more rural and less congested and I like wide open spaces with sheep and rolling hills as opposed to clutter and people. I did see some bumper stickers and the like for sale that contained comments about 1000s of years of British oppression and it reminded me of confederacy stuff you see in the small towns around here. Of course there's major differences in history and political correctness has muted much of what you see here, but it's the same sentiment of wanting to be left alone.
I don't fully understand Scottish politics beyond some wanting independence from England. In the US, the secessionists tend to believe in a very minimalist government, but from what I hear of the Scottish sentiment is that they tend toward what in the US we'd consider to be liberals (which is not what Europeans think of as liberals). I could be very wrong here, so do feel free to tell me I've missed the boat. It seems the Scottish (and again correct me if I'm wrong) are more willing to align themselves with Europe than the English, as least that's how it appeared with the Brexit thing.
I also can't figure out if the English think of the Scots as yokels or not, or whether they think of them as ingrates. On the one hand, Scotland is rural and less urbane, but it does seem to where wealthy English families would send their children for an education. On the other, it seems to be a place that likely receives more government services than it pays into, at least from an Englishman's perspective, so maybe the complaints from the English of the Scots there.
Not trying to open wounds, but from thousands of miles away it's hard to figure out. Any insight you provide would be appreciated. I have no dog in this fight and will step back if I'm stirring something up. I'm really just curious.
If you'd like for me to describe the view of southerners towards northerners like T Clark I can. Most anti-Yankee sentiment is tongue in cheek, but not all. And a Yankee to a southerner is a northerner, but I do understand Brits use the term Yankee to mean an American. The very generalized view is the American southerners think of northerners as rude, where northerners think of southerners as stupid. In truth, I'm probably ruder than I am stupid, but stereotypes are what they are.
tl;dr
You know we all have involuntary curse words, like when we stub our toe or whatever, they just come out. My involuntary curse word is "Jesus McFuck". No idea why. Anyone else got a weird one like that?
If I'm searching for something and can't find it I say "Where the fuck is the fucking fuck," even if there's no one else around.
I lived in Tuscaloosa for six months working on a construction job. On a Saturday in September when a home football game was scheduled, I got into a conversation with someone coming into a coffee shop while I was leaving. I started by saying, jokingly, "Hey, why is everyone wearing red sweatshirts around here today." He laughed and then we talked for a few minutes. As we were finishing he asked me "Where are you from." I said "Massachusetts." Then he said "But you're so friendly."
So, I have no trouble with southerners. Generally they have no problem with me. I do seem to run afoul of pompous, self-righteous [s]assholes[/s] people from time to time.
Yes.
Scotland for a long time was a Labour Party stronghold and more left-wing than England on average. These days, I think the Tories have made a comeback and Labour have declined, but the largest share of the vote in recent elections has been to the SNP, which is nationalist but centre-left. Scottish nationalists in my experience pride themselves on being non-xenophobic, pro-European, and more or less socialist.
Rural parts of Scotland tend to be Conservative, SNP, or (at least in the past) Liberal Democrat, but rarely Labour.
Unlike the confederacy, Scotland as a country or nation wasn’t conquered, destroyed, or, arguably, forced into the Union. It’s true that historically at various times some expansionist English monarchs had invaded and attempted to subjugate the Scots, but this was never successful. The countries were united by means of royal inter-marriage and then the support of Scottish nobles and politicians. But it’s worth noting that Union was only possible because Scotland was weak and struggling financially after a disastrous colonial project, following which the Scots felt like they had no choice—they were not totally into the idea of Union. England certainly used its advantage at the time to make Union inevitable, but it turned out well for Scotland in financial terms and also in terms of industrial, technological, and intellectual development. The Scottish Enlightenment was somehow (I guess economically) linked with the Union, although this is disputed by nationalists (some of whom also seem to disavow David Hume).
Quoting Hanover
In my personal experience, the English don’t seem like a cohesive unit about which I can generalize. I’ve lived for long periods in the North of England and found the attitudes closer to Scotland than to the South of England. I’ve met Southerners who were amazingly ignorant of and uninterested in Scotland, or in the North in general for that matter. Those people probably think of Scots as yokels.
A certain class of wealthy, educated, rather conservative English people like to visit or live in Edinburgh and send their kids to school and university there. This dates back a couple of hundred years to the Scottish Enlightenment.
From what I can tell, Scotland contributed more in taxes than it received in spending from the eighties till around 2011, but in recent years has been receiving more than it has contributed.
Thank you sir, thank you and thanks to the beautiful skin you are livin in.
Ah, I begin to understand your condition better. Your main problems are with the man you see when you look in the mirror. An arsehole is a very efficient waste disposal unit. I think it would be too kind to compare you with such a useful system. I continue to be interested in your thoughts regarding the topics raised on TPF. I have little interest in your personal neurosis towards me. You can throw as many toys from your cradle as you wish, if nothing else, it's quite cute.
I agree with the majority of your description of the current sociopolitical situation in Scotland but, I would emphasize that Scotland has never voted for a tory government since 1955, yet we have had to suffer such tory horrors as Thatcher, BoJo the clown and now lover of the rich, Liz Truss. Scotland moved from labour to SNP as Labour had proven themselves as unable to defeat the tories. Tony Blair proved to be the last straw for the Scots as he made the labour party a shade of blue that made them almost indistinguishable from the tories. Keir Starmer is also a shade of blue imo.
I think the failure of the Darian scheme did prove pivotal but I dont think it had to be and I think there is a lot of traction in the claims that important aspects of its failure was "the successful collaboration between the English East India Company and the English government to frustrate it; and, a failure to anticipate the Spanish Empire's military response. It was finally abandoned in March 1700 after a siege by Spanish forces, which also blockaded the harbour."
Having said that, the Scots had no business trying to emulate the English empire building aspirations.
The Darian scheme was about Scots rich pigs trying to act like most rich pigs as they try to become richer. I for one am very glad it failed as if it had succeeded then Scotland would have created their own little empire to apologise for in the future rather than having to just apologise for fighting for the English, although I do agree that an apology from that angle would be a cop out.
The union of the crown had very little to do with the Scots people. It was an agreement between nobles. Scotland was bought and sold for English gold! Another good reason imo for Scotland becoming an independent republic.
Quoting Jamal
Not true, it ignores the revenue England gets from Scots North Sea oil for a start and what it earns from renewable energy from Scotland and other profits England counts as 'British' revenue, but perhaps that's a political thread all by itself and depends on what you label British or Scottish.
Edit: The term 'ignores,' I used above is inaccurate. The revenue from Scottish oil and renewables are counted but not at 100%. It should be 100% as these resources are fully Scottish.
:clap:
I try to avoid expletives when I can, and I have always used 'oh, in the name of the wee man!' No idea who the wee man is but it's a good replacement for Jesus.
I am currently making a serious conscious effort to remove all religious references when exclaiming emotion. 'For god sake,' is now 'for feck sake or for freak sake.' Oh Jesus Christ! is now Oh good grief!
I now try to apologise and correct myself in conversation if I make a religious reference during an emotional outburst. Things don't change unless we choose to change them.
There are some political actors who stands for Scottish independence for exactly those reasons. There are solid arguments on the fact that Scotland can survive by their own resources and become an EU member again.
I wish you were Scottish and living in Scotland, we need all the votes for independence we can get.
I was in Scotland in 2018 and I completely fell in love with the country and the Scottish. I lived in Edinburgh and St. Andrews. A lot of good memories are coming to my mind...
My English skills were regular in that period but I never felt ashamed and the citizens helped me out to improve my level.
While I suffered of racism in London :rofl: I never experienced it in Scotland. This is why I told my parents to please let me go to Scotland to learn English instead of UK! :lol:
I don't much disagree with anything you say, although I'm somewhat less in favour of independence than you.
I didn't know much about the Darian scheme so thanks for that.
Otherwise, I have to disagree with Clarky. You're not an asshole, merely a bawbag.
I beg to differ. An arsehole is really a producer of waste, not a waste disposal system. The problem with all living beings is that they produce waste, then they rely on someone else (or some other being) to dispose of it. Unless you are the one living off another's waste, you ought not say that the arsehole is a useful system.
A bit mono. You need to do better.
Quoting universeness
:lol:
Quoting universeness
But that defeats the purpose. Emotional exclamations are a cathartic antidote to the repressive parasite that is social convention! Jesus McFuck, man, let yourself go!
Agreed.
I always say "oh my jesus christ" or "shite-fucker".
That's silly.
Why? Take the Lord's name in vain. Blaspheme. Do it with pride.
Nice :up:
:smile: That's really nice Javi! I'm so glad your experience with Scotland and the Scots has been so positive so far. May it always be so. The Scottish tourist board should offer you a job! It probably wouldn't offer as good pay as the career you described you recently took a test for, but it would definitely involve lots of ambassadorial travel.
Quoting Jamal
I'm confused! which disastrous colonial project were you referring to above, if not the Darien Scheme a.k.a, 'New Caledonia,' in Panama?
Quoting Jamal
:lol: Well, I have been called much worse and by far more imbalanced individuals than Mr Cluck ... I mean Clark, sorry, that accursed shout box flex! Bawbags and Arseholes are both pretty useful systems, where would we be without them? Fecally impacted and impotent. :scream: I need my arsehole and my bawbag! :yikes:
I was indeed referring to the Darian scheme but I didn't know much about it.
Would you like to be without it for a week or two? You might start to walk funny after a while.
Perhaps you could pray for an immaculate evacuation of your bowels after a permanent but-plug insertion.
Ah, I see, the details are quite interesting, but the intentions of the Scots involved, do not represent the better angels of the Scots nature or Scots culture imo.
Sometimes when exasperated, I say, "Man oh Manischewitz!" If I were Irish, I'd likely say, "Man O'Manischewitz!"
If you didn't know, and I don't know what the Jesus McFuck you know, but Manischewitz is a disgusting brand of ceremonial Jewish wine that tastes like a syrupy sweet grape juice.
You temp me brother! AAAAARRRGGGGHHHHH! JESUS MCFUCKING FUCK BAMMY BASTARDS CRAZY FUCKWIT PUTIN! WHAT ARE THE RUSKIES FUCKING DOING IN THE NAME OF JESUS MCFUCK! RISE UP AND GET RID OF THAT CRAZY MCFUCK BASTARD BEFORE HE AND HIS MAD BASTARD SUPPORTERS KILL US ALL!.
Thanks brother baden, for encouraging me to let go for a moment, that felt even better than the end of the worst constipation I have ever had! Thank goodness I have a functioning arsehole! :death: :flower:
Ladies and gentleman I give you the newly minted term of:
"Yahweh McBunghole!"
I say it at the grocery store, while picking up dry cleaning, getting the mail, really most anywhere. It's versatile and fun.
I have a crystal glass of a Scottish beer called "Caledonian"
Well, I can't count how many disgruntled theists that have used such against me in mid atheist debate in pubs, parties etc. I might say something like 'oh for gods sake listen,' and they respond with something like 'for an atheist you make a lot of appeals to god!' Then I have to spend time defending with counters such as 'I am merely employing learned habit!' etc and I am rather tired of using that excuse. things dont change if we don't change them!
I like the 80 shilling one:
If I drink enough of them then I want to listen to, what I think should be the Scottish National anthem after independence:
Oh theists can succeed in winding me up, as much as I try to defend against feeling such.
All theistic debates often become idiotic as they reach impasse so quickly, but organised theism is too powerful and destructive, to the many, to be ignored and not challenged.
Permission to 'let all my blasphemy out' from you and @Baden aw shucks guys!
JESUS MCFUCK PUTIN YA BAMMY BASTARD DO YOU THINK YOUR FUCKING GOD OR SOMETHING!!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks brother Michael. I wonder if I would be too scared to shout my recent capitalised typings as loudly as I could in the middle of Red Square. Waddyafink @Jamal? should I catch a quick filight to Moscow and we will shout it together in Red Square just before we run for your flight to Azerbaijan?
:lol:
Wow! Colourful and tasty. The smell would be amazing :starstruck:
I drink such 'ale' type beers in the winter or dark porter like Guinness.
Warms the innards and gives you a lovely inner glow, which will eventually become a kind of pleasant facial throb of contentment. The more I drink, the more affable I become. I am a very happy drunk, not aggressive at all, even if I mix in some single malts.
I only drink now on a Friday or and sometimes and a Saturday. In my younger years I would enjoy many Thursday nights on the piss as well, but I don't have the oomph for that amount of play anymore.
I do like me a Guinness, but I must assume @Baden does not under the theory that no one likes their local food and drink.
I like it because it's not hoppy and not overly carbonated. I find most craft beers so Yahweh McBunghole hoppy and fizzy that they're undrinkable.
Quoting Hanover
Hanover, under the same theory you would not like honey bourbon then! :eyes:
Doubt it, all drinking Irishmen like porter most Irish women do to.
As many Irish women as men were drinking pints (or in the Dublin accent, poyints) of porter in Dublin, 'Temple bar' area, in the few times I have been there. As a 'stout,' I think, in moderation, its actually quite good for you. Have you tasted the 'cold' Guinness.
Anyway. I think a pint of cold Guinness will be on my lips within the half hour. Already showered so time to get dressed and head oot fur ma Friday razzle! Type tae yees again soon!
Would you like fries with that?
@Bitter Crank - Universeness is so cruel to me, but at least he thinks you have nice skin.
Just curiosity - Is the drive for independence for Catalonia similar to that for Scotland?
You've missed the point. The monotony is the heart, the essence, the genius of my curse.
I think not. Catalonia shares a very similar heritage, culture and language with the rest of Spain. It is true that they speak Catalan but it comes from Latin as Spanish. Not like Scottish that they speak Gaelic (as Navarre and Basque country speak basque similar to their language)
Furthermore, I personally think that Catalonia wants to be selfish with Spain because their goal is to become a tax heaven country as Andorra, Luxembourg, Gibraltar, etc...
Their objective is monetary. So, I guess it is so different from Scotland's view.
Even Catalonian independents are ready to leave the European Union if its necessary... crazy.
But the language doesn't have relation with English, Lombard, Latin, etc... I mean, if the Scottish wants to use the culture argument, they can pick the language option
Well, depends in the context. If you go to Catalonia you would see that Catalan is relevant for the independence (Despite the fact it is not so different from Spanish) .This is why I said that there are big differences between the two independent movements.
In Scotland, language is even less relevant than that, because so few people speak Gaelic. It has little or nothing to do with the independence movement.
I've rethought this and there is no way that Kitty McCatCat would have been able to kill that big ass possum and then haul it up the steps and up to the door. It must have been the doings of Fred McDogDog, whose 90 pound frame and house sized head could have crushed that possum with a single crunching McCrunchcrunch.
I feel like with the Scottishcentricy of the McShoutbox these days and Mc@Baden's reference to the McLord and McSavior as he has, that my new way of McSpeaking is in order.
It's not clear though whether this new McTalk actually sounds Scottish or if it just sounds like the language the Hamburglar might speak at McDonalds.
I think it was my McFault as well.
The issue is quickly being McRectified. :up:
I provide this as evidence I will try to be less serious on the Shoutbox, but just as annoying.
This is what I intended to argue but I didn't express myself properly.
Quoting Jamal
I take a portion of blame too. I have spread negative vibrations without any reason.
Jesus McFuck
Jesus O'Fuck
Jesus FitzFuck
Jesus Fuckson
Jesus Bin Fuck
Jesus Fuckowitz
Great idea. Can the whole thing end at chapter two with an elegant mushroom cloud, sparing us all that interminable cod mythology? If only Tolkien himself had been able to think of this. The Noble Price for mercy to literature is yours, Frank.
Enemy anemone lemon Eminem enema.
It makes it much harder to reply to your posts.
Also, I've always wondered. Why do you bother posting on the forum on weekends when you don't have to blow off work?
Well, you have no evidence that it is Hanover who produces all these posts. I'm pretty sure Hanover is a handle used by a bunch of gag writers for Seth Meyers.
We won a Jamalrob (the equivalent of a Pulitzer) for our clever retro humor where we uploaded pictures of handwritten posts instead of typing them.
It was such a success, one glowing reviewer remarked,
"Also, I've always wondered. Why do you bother posting on the forum on weekends when you don't have to blow off work?"
One of my favorite jokes is reminiscing about the present.
Here's a Hanover classic from 7 years ago I just located in the Shoutbox. The no longer member named S just told me he named his new cat Ada
I thought a minute, and told him this:
Quoting Hanover
Yes, you are correct, the old Hanover did have a certain pizzazz.
rker.
I thought you might dig this:
Um, that's your arm, right?
Interesting. Thanks for the link.
I'm no better off before or after watching that video.
My guess is next a soft landing into Swing and Big Band
But it’s one way to take the forum back to the 1700s.
Sounds like he hadn't had time to get to know you.
Rude humor is funny.
Back in 1968 when I went to Boston for a stint in the VISTA program, I expected people to be unfriendly. I quickly discovered that my expectations were way off, and that the midwest where I was from was far less friendly. Over the last 50 years nothing has happened in Minnesota to change this impression.
It's odd: here you have a prosperous, well-educated state where at least half the population seems to be practically devoid of socializing skills. A lot of the midwest is the same.
Henry Smorynski, a political scientist I knew at St. Thomas College, thought that the low-sociability originated in the agrarian and small town culture which dominated this area for a long time. Rural small-town people didn't need to develop good social skills because one's role was largely established by one's family. One just had to fulfill the predicted role or get the hell out of town -- which a lot of people did. They came to larger cities where they brought and kept minimal social skills for dealing with diverse situations.
Love blue eyes especially on a blonde or even a blonde who goes brunette. The contrast seduces me.
If that seduces you, I can only imagine what blue eyes contrasted against gray hair on a middle aged man would do to you.
Yeah, none of those three things, but I do have amazing blues eyes.
Useful
Right, blue eyes are recessive, so it ought to work out... unless they are specifically bred for. Those agrarians, they seem to know all about breeding for particular traits. Maybe even dickheadedness?
The snake?
We will see.
This Eric Idle interview is brilliant. There is SO much in it...
However, I chose only one excerpt. Because of George :hearts: :death: :flower:
Quoting Guardian - Eric Idle interview on surviving pancreatic cancer
[emphasis added]
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/oct/03/i-didnt-cry-until-i-knew-i-was-going-to-live-monty-pythons-eric-idle-on-surviving-pancreatic-cancer
Quoting Guardian - Eric Idle, on pancreatic cancer
It's vital to get any symptoms checked out early. Just do it!
Know what the symptoms are, talk to your GP, get tests, even a simple blood test for starters...
https://www.pancreaticcancer.org.uk/information/worried-about-pancreatic-cancer/
Probably because my friend's husband has it.
Again, it's so important to get checked out early.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/prostate-cancer/symptoms/
But back to the silly stuff.
I'm sure there's a joke out there somewhere. Oh, look...
https://jokojokes.com/prostate-jokes.html
Just thought it was a cool problem. I wasn't expecting you to solve it.
You mean you weren't expecting me, a non-mathematician, to solve a problem that some mathematicians think is impossible to solve?
No. I wasn't. Why on earth would you think otherwise? :chin:
Because you recognize my unparalleled intelligence?
Um. Nevermind.
Wish I'd have checked the pockets before washing, but what are you going to do?
When I was talking to the man in Tuscaloosa, after he said "but you're so friendly," I told him people in Massachusetts are friendly, it's just a different kind of friendly.
As for the midwest, I did a fair amount of work there when I was an engineer. I found the people very friendly. One time I was working at a site in Indiana. It was just me and the guy operating the excavator. I was trying to move something awkward and heavy. He jumped down off the excavator and helped me. That would never happen in the northeast.
You mean an actual guy who was working with you on a project wouldn't have helped you? Y'all suck.
I was at the furniture store the other day and this lady was sitting in her car complaining that she had been waiting hours for a wrecker to help change her tire. I told her I'd help her and I had her tire almost off (even lowered the spare from underneath), but there was some sort of lock on the tire and she didn't have the key. I beat the shit out of it the best I could to knock it loose, but it was designed not to be stolen.
My point is that you're supposed to help people out and even fuck their shit up just like it was your own when trying to help. If they want professional help, they can ask someone other than the eager rando with the monkey wrench and sledge hammer.
In response managers would ensure female staff were not around when he arranged to visit the branch.
Half an hour I went to brewdog and heard a song that contained the lyrics “I wanna fuck you like an animal”
Few days ago the guy published an account denying such accusations.
We, being animals, can hardly do otherwise.
Don’t get me wrong but that just offends the virgin ears of 21 year old nerds …
Punk IPA is ok, the CEO should if he has any sense step down. But as the founder I doubt it will happen
Oh, I DO hope so!
Javier Marías had many chances of winning the prize but he died of pneumonia in September.
Nine Inch Nails is child's play compared to today's lyrics.
Perhaps Cardi B was relaying a scene she witnessed between her mum and dad when they were engaged in 'making love.' Or perhaps she was describing something she was watching on the discovery channel narrated by David Attenborough.
Such attempts at shock lyrics are just desperate attempts to make money and advance a singing career.
I think more and more people see through this now.
The answer is not to be shocked or titillated, but just try to continue to see the difference between the joy of sex and an individual's chosen description of some of the mechanics involved or side actions, some choose to engage in.
Online pimping via OnlyFans and such platforms has at least given some power to woman to not be exploited by pimps.
Although ironically the pimp now is the IT nerd who launched the OnlyFans platform.
Sex is not a profession, but prostitution is and sure, it is often called the oldest profession, but I think that's just a myth. I think hunter/gatherer is the oldest profession, and in those days, I don't think there was much of a concept of female prostitution, there was more of a natural procreative imperative in control.
Food and water sell as well as sex does, all things humans need sell pretty well. No suprise there!
Sex is not a profession ? What is it then ? Gender ?
Sex is prostitution whether you get it for free from your wife, partner or visit a dodgy brothel is irrelevant.
My mum is a whore, she fucked my dad and that was a mistake. Now I stand before you, philosophising …
Quoting Deus
So, are you claiming women don't enjoy consensual sex as much as men do?
Do you know there have always been males who sell sex to women as well?
I will leave it to your mum to defend herself or agree with your words regarding her.
Anyway you ask to many questions on the matter … my advice is for you to try it
No shit Sherlock!
Quoting Deus
Please don't point your sexual frustrations in my direction.
I am not if anything out of the two of us it seems you’re the one that appears frustrated.
Escort ?
The way things seem to you and what reality is, obviously differs greatly.
Quoting Deus
I don't drive so I have no interest in the Ford Escort. It's a very old car but I am sure that fits in well with your very old thinking.
Though my ways of thinking may be old I’m no old man.
KCIII.
Good news: no more hissy fits about leaky pens.
Now, Charlie boy brings his own. Then again, if he presses too hard...
Bad news: still lording it over his tenants. How will they pay the rent?
King Charles allowed to vet proposed Scottish rent freeze law
Quoting Guardian - King's Consent
What the actual fuck?!!! :rage:
Without knowing what the intention behind the vetting is I can’t possibly comment
Indeed.
As to the intentions of the 'crown', one can only have a stab...
Think power, think increased wealth, think what you like. The very existence of such an 'arcane consent mechanism' should be questioned in a so-called 'democracy'. Serving the people, my ass.
'Transparency' is that too much to ask?
Providing the monarchy with ceremonial powers throws a bone to those enamored with royalty, but it poses a danger if you give the King actual power to over-rule a democratically passed law, especially one in a region not exactly overrun with loyalists to the crown.
I would expect therefore that the King will exercise no discretion, but will defer to whatever law is passed because to do otherwise will result in his being stripped of that power, and all he can hope to protect at this point is the formality and pomp and circumstance that centers around being a figure head it he wants any role at all.
It was your thought processes I was referring to, not your claimed status as young or its accompanying life inexperience.
Who can express the feelings of the people against monarchy better than the best non-theist there ever was in all the history of theism:
About the level of 'actual power', I've had to look up 'Crown Consent':
Quoting Crown Consent - Scottish Parliament - bills and laws
So, there we have it. Any Bill affecting Charlie's power, rights, revenue, private interests requires him to give consent. What this seems to mean is that the law is not 'over-ruled' as such.
Rather it is 'vetting' it. Majestic meddling. Protecting privileges.
It will be a long time, if ever before this power will be stripped from him.
However, steps are being taken...as per article...
Frankie Boyle? :chin:
Quoting Comedy- Frankie Boyle
The Queen's death seems to have stopped all criticism of the monarchy.
I think the change-over, the passing of the 'crown' is all the more reason to analyse it...
But yeah, probably best to wait until all the sentimentality has died down.
Emotions run high when stirred so...there's a time and a place...
Might actually prove useful, if Scotland becomes independent, another good reason why after independence we should become a republic.
Quoting Amity
No, Father Ted! is the best non-theistic theist ever. I think everyone dressed as Father ted holding placards with The Monarchy and 'down with this sort of thing' written below it would scare the shit out of the British elites if we had enough protesters, perhaps something like:
Although I do like the V for Vendetta approach as well, but the whole 'Guy Fawkes, gunpowder plot,' against the life of James 1st, is not quite the action against the current King, I would support.
But Frankie Boyle, yeah, not a bad idea, he is a bit like unleashing the Neuk's!
If Scotland does become independent then they will continuously show re-runs of braveheart on their telly tube. Every hour 27/4 whilst washing down your haggis with irn-bru
We can do that now, hunnikins :razz:
:rofl:
How young are you child? Are you an infant deus?
Scotland ? Braveheart, haggis & Irn Bru, that's your best shot eh?
Old enough to drink your best whisky and young enough to do it for the next 60 years with limited damage to my liver.
:rofl: Are you still watching a TV with a tube in it? Scotland moved to smart TV's ages ago.
What do you eat and drink when watching a movie on your telly tube :lol: Tharida washed down with mead?
Oh please go on child, tell me your name for Scotlands best whisky and tell me why you think it's so.
I will know if you merely offer me words you found on google.
Twenty somethings and whisky is not a combination I would recommend.
Why it’s Jack Daniel’s of course…what other whiskey comes close ?
How’s Scotland’s policy on taxing high strength alcohol going … louts still presenting the same old problems ?
:death: :flower: A bottle of nothing more than alcohol burn that's so bad, normal people drown it in coke.
True whisky drinkers don't even mention the name of such pretender products.
Perhaps if you keep trying, by the time you reach 60, you can dare again to talk about drinking Scots whisky.
Scotland has its fair share of louts, yes but most of them either join the police, the army or try to become conservative MP's, regardless of the current tax rate on high strength alcohol.
Are you kind of jaundiced?
An honest drinker.
Contrary to popular belief if the math is right then 365/70 litres a year is only what a 200ml a day ? Is that even a lot … I guess it depends on the strength
https://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/alcoholic-drinks-and-units/low-risk-drinking-guidelines
1-2 fifths of liquor per week is a lot, enough to do quite a bit of damage.
The Chief Medical Officers’ advice for men and women who wish to keep their short term health risks from single occasion drinking episodes to a low level is to reduce them by:
• limiting the total amount of alcohol you drink on any single occasion
• drinking more slowly, drinking with food, and alternating with water
• planning ahead to avoid problems e.g. by making sure you can get home safely or that you have people you trust with you.
The sorts of things that are more likely to happen if you do not understand and judge correctly the risks of drinking too much on a single occasion can include:
• accidents resulting in injury, causing death in some cases
• misjudging risky situations, and
• losing self-control (e.g. engaging in unprotected sex).
Some groups of people are more likely to be affected by alcohol and should be more careful of their level of drinking on any one occasion for example those at risk of falls, those on medication that may interact with alcohol or where it may exacerbate pre-existing physical and mental health problems.
If you are a regular weekly drinker and you wish to keep both your short- and long term health risks from drinking low, this single episode drinking advice is also relevant for you.
Only about philosophy.
Yeah, we'll all stand up and say "my name is Bruce..."
By day we live in the same worlds, but not by night, although my days usually start much earlier and end much earlier.
I figure I get 10s of thousands less calories per year as well, so there's that too.
I used to drink red wine because they tasted good with whatever dish I would have. And then studies came out about how alcohol at any amount is harmful.
I also believed that I'm a good candidate for alcoholism, although I only drank wine during meals, a glass. But somehow, I think I don't trust myself with alcohol.
Quoting Hanover
That's for sure.
This is why I start drinking in the morning. I can finish drinking by evening, get a good night’s sleep, and wake up early the next morning refreshed and ready to start again.
Before breakfast, I have one can of Tennents Super to wake me up, then a quarter bottle of Famous Grouse to go with my oats, black pudding, and smoked salmon. I sip the whisky so that it lasts me till elevenses, when I have a bottle of sparkling wine such as cava or champagne (with chocolate eclairs served on doilies). For lunch I’ll have two bottles of good red wine to accompany a roast fowl.
Then I take a break till four o’clock, when I have two or three gins and tonic, then more sparkling wine to go with ham sandwiches for high tea. After a bike ride it’s time for pre-dinner aperitifs, which can be more gin, a bottle of Buckfast Tonic Wine, or maybe just four or five cans of Tennents Super. For dinner, I’ll have a bottle of Chablis to go with the fish course, then two or three bottles of red wine to go with a hearty meat stew or pork roast, and finally a bottle of port to go with the cheese.
Then I retire to my armchair for brandy or whisky. After half a bottle it’s time for a jog, a small beer, and then bed.
I tasted a 26-year-old Lagavullain about 10 years ago, which I have never forgotten. The depth and smoothness of the peaty tones has to be experienced to be appreciated/believed. But at over £1500 for a 70cl bottle, I would have to get invited to another whisky party thrown by a well-heeled headmaster.
So, my fall-back fav is a 16-year-old lagavullain but a Caol Ila, an Ileach or a Laphroaig are all welcome encounters. I was given a 27-year-old Bowmore on retirement and I have a dram from that, every birthday. I am pleasantly surprised by Octomore at over £120 per bottle (which I won't pay for a 7-year-old, but my brother-in-law will) and I really like the Ardbeg range, particularly the 'An oa.'
Quoting Tom Storm
Well, that's about 100 regular sized bottles a year or less than two bottles per week.
You were certainly way below alky numbers on the whisky front but, yeah, a bit of a high consumption.
I am currently about half a bottle over a Friday and Saturday night.
Quoting Tom Storm
Two of the best blended whisky's available imo. Chivas is normally a 12-year-old. I tried a 13-year-old recently and was very surprised at the difference between it and the 12.
Wot, no room for a cheeky wee bottle of Mad Dog 20/20:
As a mod, your other half could be called a modette.
Does it follow then that a woman who has a relationship with a buckieboy is a buckette?
Absinthe?
The current legal absinthe offerings are too liquorice/aniseed for me. Too close to the taste of Pernod or Sambuca. Now the original green stuff (which is also described as having an aniseed taste) that messed up many past celebs, described as:
Absinthe has often been portrayed as a dangerously addictive psychoactive drug and hallucinogen. The chemical compound thujone, which is present in the spirit in trace amounts, was blamed for its alleged harmful effects. is one I would have been able to avoid as I am not a big fan of aniseed flavours.
I don't like aniseed flavours neither and the absinthe has a very high grades of alcohol. So this is why I guess is so dangerously hallucinogen :yikes:
This is why I recommend you Sake :cool: It is mild!
I have only tasted Sake on two occasions, both in sushi restaurants.
They were both just nasty tastes. Reminded me of something like straight ouzo or tequila or Irish Potcheen (Poitin). These are just firewaters/grogs/gutrots. Perfectly fine if you just want tae get pissed oot yer face! But not if you want to actually savour the taste of what you are drinking.
:rofl: :eyes:
This is key, and it's why I see your disciplined regimen of specialized liquors, liqueurs, wines, beers, and whatnot as well worth the expense, easily affordable on a forum owner's salary.
As long as you don't fall into the trap of drinking into late evening, you should be fine, but if anyone can stay within proper boundaries, it's you.
The ones I worry about are the ones unfamiliar with the late evening rule.
Without sounding like a dick I’d say that looking after your body and organs is important if organ donation is mandatory after you die
I think you're probably just reading old books where the paper really is yellowed.
Anyway — I have no bomba rice. I used a short grain rice from a paella kit — has anyone used an alternative? What about arborio? Any recipes?
I also used a cast iron skillet— which I read is a no-no but it came out fine to me.
I think arborio is quite commonly used as a substitute.
For a couple of years I lived in the Valencian region, where paella originates and where they grow bomba rice. I very much like the traditional Valencian paella, with chicken, rabbit, and green beans. I'm not so keen on the seafood version, even though I like seafood.
Quoting Xtrix
Since the key is to get a layer of stuck-on, almost burnt rice on the bottom, I don't see why cast iron wouldn't do the job just as well.
But although I did make some other Valencian dishes that use bomba rice, I never tried to make paella.
Lucky bastard.
The one I made I used only chicken so I can’t comment on the seafood. I’m too afraid to try that so soon.
Socarrat :up: :yum:
I miss when you don't take part on them... sometimes I think you are mad with me and that's why you don't reply in my posts :sad:
Thanks, I did think there would be a word for it.
I try to respond to most posts addressed to me. Sorry if I missed some.
Oh no, you've jinxed it now.
Anytime I get the sense of a positive change in TPF, along comes...a plague of persistent pests.
But yeah :up: and :clap:
I wonder if the 'invitation only' has meant an improvement. If so, well done @Jamal and crew :cool:
I've been known to bark, so it seems like sometimes I should wag my tail.
:smile:
And lick your chops?!
Yes - all those dog things.
Hmm... :monkey:
I was joking. HA HA :yum:
I used to enjoy a good saké and I discovered quality tequila late - smooth and pleasant stuff. Here's a tip - never drink from a bottle with a hat for a lid. Didn't like beer much (and it takes too much work to get drunk), wine in small amounts, but it generally bored me, so I stayed in the world of straight up spirits for most of my drinking years. Had a thing for Irish whisky. And had a bit of a romance with good gin. Avoided cocktails, too much fuss, although I did enjoy the occasional Sazerac made by one particular barman I knew. One of my problems is that I almost never got hangovers. I think this is true for about 1/4 of drinkers.
It's been a long time since I had more than 1 beer or 2 beers, at most. When I did drink more, I didn't get hangovers for beer. Ditto for cocktails. But from wine, very bad.
Certainly my worst hangover was from guzzling a rot gut wine-like product, but much better wines also give me hangovers and headaches. Too many cigarettes + booze is a bad combo as well.
But this has always been the case, if you aint seen kissing babies then you ain’t a man of the people
I beg to differ. Sake is nothing like those spirits. It's brewed rather than distilled, it has a much lower alcohol content, and it doesn't taste like them. I like it a lot.
Good tequila is a fine, delicious, sippable drink. It's not just for inadvisably getting superpissed towards the end of a night out.
Ouzo is usually mixed with water and has a strong aniseed flavour.
The "firewaters/grogs/gutrots" category might truly include Poitín, samogon, grappa, chacha, etc. Actually, I'm sure the connoisseurs would say that grappa and chacha are noble beverages, whereas Poitín and samogon are peasant moonshines and therefore have an ignoble reputation.
Time for change
Individual relationships with alcohol seem to mimic individual relationships with life in general. If you don't get it right in balance with who you are and what you want. It will fuck you up man!
I like wines, cocktails, beer, lager etc. I get bad hangovers sometimes, but I don't think I have a predilection towards addiction. I have tried to drink more than two nights in a row, in my younger days, when I was on holiday with a bunch of mates in Spain or Cyprus etc and I just become a vomit comet and got called the green nite! (A play on the brave but limited drinker status of idea of a Green Knight).
Yeah, what the hell would you know? Youve killed your alcohol expertise rep by revealing yourself as a buckieboy (with perhaps a trail of broken hearted buckett's lying drunk on the kerbs you left them on).
The fact you did not answer my MD 20/20 suggestion leaves me with further suspicions about your drink credentials. Is this your true identity???
No such liquid exists Tom!
[b]Whisky (no e) refers to Scottish, Canadian, or Japanese grain spirits.
Whiskey (with an e) refers to grain spirits distilled in Ireland and the United States.[/b]
Also, just to complete the distinction:
Malt refers to the grain which is softened by water and then it is germinated and dried.
An e can make such a difference to your evening. I have never tasted any whiskey created in Ireland that can match Scottish single malts.
Redbreast 12-Year-Old Single Pot Still Irish Whiskey won the award at the prestigious International Wine and Spirit Competition, which is now in it’s 50th year.
I tasted it and was not that impressed at all and it was voted the best whiskEy not the best whisky in the world. Scotland has won that many many times. Highland Park has won it three times (I am not personally a great fan). Ardbeg has won it many times. There was a Japanese usurper one year, but they just obtained and replicated the exact process used in a distillery in Scotland.
Our dear Irish brethren and American/Canadian/Japanese friends do try but scotch is globally the best by far.
I wull tell you this boy!
At least ma baws have drapped intae ma bag Rab!
A few mair single malts an yoors mabies wull tae! Yawee Plook that ye arr!
Hah! have you ever tried to outdrink a Scottish lassie fae Possilpark!
I.5 bottles of whisky and 4 bottles of wine later, She, wull drink yours tae, efter yi pass out intae yer ain pish, she wull take yer wallet and tie up yer bawbag wi a strong elastic band, afore she goes hame!
NO I AM NOT DESCRIBING MY EX FIANCE!
Well you would say that.
Both Japanese and Scotch whiskey are very delicious.
I will claim further. The vast majority of whisky drinkers will agree with me! Some confused whiskEy drinkers may not, but who listens to those infected by E.
I must admit, I do like some of the 'Suntory' range. BUT the story I heard is (folklore involved no doubt), A Japanese family moved to Islay, many years ago, and worked at various distilleries there. One of that group started to record every step taken to produce certain high-quality whisky's.
This info was sent back to relatives in Japan, who started their own distillery and the family descendents became very rich. Some descendants from the original group still live on Islay and still work in the distilleries there. I saw a recent program about Scottish whisky, which featured one very nice Japanese guy who works in a distillery bar and said in a perfect Scottish Islander accent that he would never leave Islay and he had never been involved in passing distillery secrets to the Japanese homeland.
You must make your own mind up as to who is responsible for such theft of Scots heritage!!!!
The Canadians have a little more claim to it as a great deal of that country's population are Scots descendants, so they can rightfully use the whisky (no e) label. :rofl:
Look at this guys!!!
and
ALL POWER TO THESE KIDS! These are the best of us! The nefarious elites are doomed no matter what theistic shit or money trick shit or birthright shit or dynastic inheritance shit or superiority shit they try to use to maintain their power and privilege. Damn them all to the hell they deserve!
I never read anything about the recent winner, the french writer, Annie Ernaux. Big congratulations to her anyway.
Try marketing my friend
Then why are they leaving markets?
I do not know enough about the insurance industry to answer your question fully.
If I was to speculate it would be this. They do not fully recognise nor have adopted to the markets they aim to serve. As always the common misconception is that the insurance industry is low risk high reward but with a wide playing field and lots of players the profits must be taking a hit
I thought insurers spread the risk through secondary re-insurance--pooling risk across several insurance companies. That, and by maximizing ROI of their assets. In the 2007 crash, it turned out that some companies, thinking of AIG, for instance, had done a very bad job in safely investing their assets and had to be bailed out for $180 billion.
There are places in the country that people should understand are too-risky to protect with insurance. Live there if you want, but at your own risk. Hurricanes predictably land on the gulf coast (as opposed to Idaho), but it's the people who have chosen to build on the most precarious and lovely beach front property who should bear the risk by themselves. There are no natural barriers to buffer the storm, other than a palm tree. 1 mile inland, houses are safer.
Similarly, if you build a house tucked into the fire-prone forest on a mountain side...
The poor living on Pine Island, Florida don't have insurance--they can't afford it. The wealthy class on Pine Island can afford it, but they have enough wealth and resources to calculate whether they want to bear the cost alone or live somewhere else.
I assume you mean Colonial Penn. That's the company Alex Trebek used to shill for.
Quoting Hanover
There is a government sponsored insurer of last resort in Florida, but it's being overwhelmed.
I guess a lot of the secondary insurers are having the same problems the primary ones are having.
I was a Good Neighbor.
This is a good use of emus. Emi`?
This is even better.
It has Baden's name all over it.
Edit: nevermind thought you were on about Renault Clio
Insurance companies actually operate at a loss, meaning it costs them say $1.04 for every dollar they receive in premiums. That allows them to operate like a bank, where they pay 4% for their money and then earn investment income exceeding that. If the market crashes, so goes the insurance company profits.
Regulations are supposed to limit the sorts of investments an insurer can make and will require a certain amount of reserves to always be on hand.
Quoting Bitter Crank
That's a free market approach, but, alas, we live in a world where people aren't required to live out the consequences of their decisions. Flood insurance is an example where the government has gotten involved to be sure people will be have something to eat when their groceries float away.
I think years ago in South Carolina they told those along the coast they couldn't rebuild after they suffered a loss. A bunch of rich people with really expensive real estate got pissed off, and I don't remember how that worked out.
Speaking of flood insurance, you might remember some lawyer named Scruggs who was somehow related to Trent Lott, the former Senator for Mississippi, who filed all sorts of lawsuits against State Farm (among others) claiming people were improperly denied claims arising out of Katrina. The insurers argued the losses were caused by water damage and should be covered under flood insurance (which few had) and not under their homeowners policies.
Anyway, billions of dollars later, it came out that Scruggs attempted to bribe a judge, resulting in Scruggs going off to jail and Lott being implicated somehow.
The point here is that there are no good guys, just a bunch of people trying to get ahold of that great big pile of money.
Me, I just try to get a free roof when it hails by arguing that my roof is now useless due to the hail and not the fact that it's a 25 year roof on its 30th year. I need to think bigger maybe.
The federal flood insurance program will only provide insurance in jurisdictions where specified government flood control policies have been implemented. It's an incentive for localities to require such measures without imposing a federal mandate. It's less coercive than direct federal regulatory control. Seems like a pretty good, balanced idea to me.
It's OK to feed them Spam for a couple of days. We are a rich and generous country.
BTW, in fairness, people make stupid decisions all over the country, quite often with the aid and assistance of government, real estate operators, builders, and so on, Perhaps not every flood plain has been identified, but most of them have, and there is no good reason to build housing developments in one. Eventually flood plains flood. Eventually former swamp land returns to swamp. (Minneapolis has some nice housing sitting on former swamp land which yearns to be swamp land again. Water problems.)
So, State Farm is #42 in the Fortune 500 list;
Revenue Decrease US$79.395 billion (2019)
Net income Decrease US$5.593 billion (2019)
Total assets Increase US$294.82 billion (2019)
Total equity Increase US$116.23 billion (2019)
Number of employees 57,672 (2019)
They seem to be doing fairly well for a company operating at a loss.
https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2022/oct/07/winding-up-the-other-side-leftwing-designers-cgi-bomb-tory-speeches
I admit the shenanigans have been fun to watch from over here. If you guys can just make it about five times worse, maybe you'll be able to catch up with the political disfunction we have here in the US.
The only relief I have right now is that Trump is no longer US President. Please, please keep it that way!
Truss + Trump = Tragedy :rage:
I'm beyond wanting to talk about it. But that CGI 'bomb' cheered me up, no end :smile:
Well, obviously I'm too mature to wallow in such partisan squalor. On the other hand, when I find out a strongly anti-abortion Republican candidate for the US Senate paid for his girlfriends abortion in 2009, I can't help but cackle a bit.
Humour is one way to cope with all the shenanigans.
But my core sometimes shakes with anger, never before felt.
Good Luck to us all... :sparkle:
As I've gotten older, the anger has diminished. That's made my life easier. It was never very productive anyway.
Is it the same for all emotions?
Good wisdom. I think I should put it on pratice too.
It's not wisdom, it's age. I guarantee you will be putting getting old into practice whether you want to or not.
They've all lost their immediacy, intensity, franticness. I've always been a pretty angry, anxious person. Those have probably faded the most.
I prefer to not guarantee anything. It is perfectly possible to see me dead in five years with just 30 years old. A lot of people die young for many reasons.
I'll tell you what I tell my children - you can die whenever you like, but not till after I'm gone.
I think it's not just age. @javi2541997 is right.
Your life practice would seem to be rooted in certain kinds of wisdom.
Come on. It won't kill ya to admit it :wink:
Wow I never felt that appreciated in my life. Thank you for your steem on me.
Amity, you are one of the best persons of the forum. The world needs citizens as you. Please, never disappear :flower:
Thank you, you are always so kind :sparkle:
Quoting javi2541997
I'll try. But as you say, there are no guarantees :wink:
You too. You stick around too :hearts:
Oh dear, is this too much of a love-in? :scream:
I will try :sparkle: :blush:
While we are on the topic, "Wisdom does not necessarily increase with age." There are some wise young people. I wasn't one of them, but they are out there. Some aging politicians exhibit wisdom; many of them exhibit compounded stupidity.
I did that in my youth. Now I don't fucking try to do the lawn. It's just going to grow back and piss me off more.
Atlanta is a foodie city, so I'm wondering why the Scots haven't planted their flag here. We have a bunch of Irish pubs, but that's as close as we get. I wanted to try out my Scottish slang on the wait staff, but I'll have to wait for another day to tell them to get their bawsack over to my table and bring me my fecking beer.
I guess I'll eat me some Italian food tonight. I was going to go to the steak place next door, but the first reservation is at 9:00 p.m., which is stupid. I like to go to places where they ask "do you have a reservation," and when I say no, they seat me anyway. Those places like to think they're important, but they're not.
It's a pretty nice Italian place. I think I'll get the meatball sub. They have Strombolis and Calzones, but no one actually knows the difference.
Sometimes, maybe when it's hot outside or something, I still detect some of that undiminished anger.
A man comes and does my lawn now. The old way, where it was my job to do it and my wife's job to ask me to do it, was annoying to all involved.
There is a common misconception that strombolis and calzones are traditional Italian dishes. Nothing could be further from the truth. Both were developed in the late 1980s in the US as a response to the popularity of Hot Pockets brand Italianoid sandwich product.
Maybe their native food just isn't that great? The Norwegians aren't eating Lutefisk in Norway because it is disgusting to normal palates. The descendants of Norwegian immigrants eat it as an act of Lutheran contrition.
Naebody here says 'bawsack,' ya bawbag! and 'feck,' is Irish. I just stole it from father Ted.
Yer bum's oot the windae. Wiki is my authority.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Glossary_of_Scottish_slang_and_jargon
I edited that article in Wikipedia and added a lot of made up words. Examples - haggis, bairn, auld, lang, syne, Donald Trump Jr., and Glasgow,
It is true that the film can be boring because it is different from the first two movies. Nevertheless, I think an epilogue was necessary to the story because many fans were debating what would happen to Michael Corleone with the past of the years. We, as fans, deserved the definitive final of the Corleone family. It was ok, but yes not as good as the performance with Brando, De Niro and Al Pacino.
Rather than fetishization it looks like Coppola shows them as “heroes” fighting against enemies of the state. I never read the original book of Mario Puzo, probably it has another sense.
Then you should be able to find and show a pair of boxer shorts called bawsacks.
If it was a common term used in Glesga then some Capitalist bawbag would have tried to make money from it by now!
Wiki has a feckin fair bit of detail on FECK!
[b]Irish English
The most popular and widespread modern use of the term is as a slang expletive in Irish English, employed as a less serious alternative to the expletive "fuck" to express disbelief, surprise, pain, anger, or contempt. It notably lacks the sexual connotations that "fuck" has, but can otherwise be used to replace "fuck" in any other way—this includes terms such as "fecking", "fecked", "feck off", etc.
It is also used as Irish slang meaning "throw" (e.g. "he fecked the remote control across the table at me".)
It has also been used as a verb meaning "to steal" (e.g. "they had fecked cash out of the rector's room") or to discover a safe method of robbery or cheating.
Scots and Late Middle English
"Feck" is a form of effeck, which is in turn the Scots cognate of the modern English word effect. However, this Scots noun has additional significance:
Efficacy; force; value; return
Amount; quantity (or a large amount/quantity)
The greater or larger part (when used with a definite article)
From the first sense can be derived "feckless", meaning witless, weak, or ineffective. "Feckless" remains a part of Modern English and Scottish English, and appears in a number of Scottish adages:
"Feckless folk are aye fain o ane anither."
"Feckless fools should keep canny tongues."
In his 1881 short story Thrawn Janet, Robert Louis Stevenson invokes the second sense of "feck" as cited above:
"He had a feck o' books wi' him—mair than had ever been seen before in a' that presbytery..."
Robert Burns uses the third sense of "feck" in the final stanza of his 1792 poem "Kellyburn Braes":
I hae been a Devil the feck o' my life,
Hey, and the rue grows bonie wi' thyme;
"But ne'er was in hell till I met wi' a wife,"
And the thyme it is wither'd, and rue is in prime[/b]
:smile: That's feckin fair enough!
I kinda still prefer saying 'oh for freaks sake,' to 'oh for feck sake or f*ck sake.'
I also like the more mysterious origins of the term 'freak.'
[b]
Unknown Origin, but possibly:
[freak (n.1)
1560s, "sudden and apparently causeless turn of mind," of unknown origin. Perhaps it is from a dialectal survival of a word related to Middle English friken "to move nimbly or briskly," from Old English frician "to dance" [OED, Barnhart]. There is a freking attested in mid-15c., apparently meaning "capricious behavior, whims." Or perhaps from Middle English frek "eager, zealous, bold, brave, fierce" (see freak (n.2 below)).
The sense of "capricious notion" (1560s) and that of "unusual thing, fancy" (1784) preceded that of "abnormally developed individual or production" (first attested in freak of nature, 1839, which later was popular in variety show advertisements for bearded ladies, albinos, etc.; compare Latin lusus naturæ, which was used in English from 1660s). As "drug user" (usually appended to the name of the drug) it attested by 1945. The sense in health freak, ecology freak, etc. is attested from 1908 (originally Kodak freak "a camera buff"). Freak show is attested from 1887.
freak (v.)
"change, distort," 1911, from freak (n.1). Earlier, "to streak or fleck randomly" (1630s). Related: Freaked; freaking.
freak (n.2)
"brave man, warrior," Scottish freik, from Middle English freke "a bold man, a warrior, a man," from Old English freca "bold man, a warrior," from frec "greedy, eager, bold" (compare German frech "bold, impudent")./b]
Can even be used in fun songs such as:
Or perhaps you would prefer the original:
Quoting Tom Storm
I have no particular strong interest in the Mafia, but it is an interesting phenomenon. I think GF1 and G2 were good movies. Well written and very well acted. For me, watching corruption pouring down over Michael like molasses was powerful and had the ring of truth. I didn't see GF3, probably because of how disturbing I found the view of human nature in the first two. I didn't like that view, but as I said, it had the ring of truth.
A movie I loved is "Goodfellas." A lot of my reaction was similar to the GFs, but Ray Liotta knocked my socks off. That blue-eyed, cocaine-fueled intensity was compelling. Joe Pesci was great - repellant and terrifying. And then there's "Layla."
Oh yes, that's another great film. Martin Scorse made an excellent work showing other story about Mafia. Despite the plot and actors are good, I think the characters are cocky gangsters :rofl:
I prefer the classy gentlemen of The Godfather.
Ray Liotta did a great performance in the movie. I really felt sorry when he passed away some months ago... he was one of the my favourite actors.
I really liked Liotta too. The two movies I remember seeing him in were "Goodfellas" and "Something Wild." In both he had a spine-tingling intensity. Danger disguised, badly, with charm.
I like all those movies, Godfather 1, 2 (and 3 to a lesser extent) but also Goodfellas, Casino and Heat. And how about True Romance, the latter comprised of so many great scenes it never gets old. I am a fan of violence when come to think of it allthough I also like many animated movies and even a lot of romantic pieces.
I'm one 'n all conflicted I guess.
I have to say…it kinda sucks.
I'm currently quarantined going through the fourth time in a year and allthough it sucks every time again only the first time I felt thus bad I didnt care for life much anymore. The headache was totally something else than I ever had to experience those first few days and afterwards being deprived of smell and taste also didnt do much good for a general mood.
I agree with your Quoting Tom Storm
Imo, Mafia thugs are no different from gangsters like Alexander the Great (pig). Every Roman Emperor, almost every King who ever existed, Most popes, queens, aristos, etc, etc all the way towards characters like Trump today. All gangsters.
I don't mind films where most or all of the gangsters die by the end of the movie, like in my fav gangster film 'Scarface' with Al Pacino. In real life it doesn't often happen that way. Some of them become the beginning of long-lasting dynasties or the gang leaders intermarry with the leaders of other gangs and, as a family, rule the whole of Europe etc. I like the word dynasty. A word that sounds quite apt as the idea of dy nasty (or a nasty death) is quite apt towards their many victims and often even their own fate.
Just like wee Tony in 'Scarface.'
Sicilians who came to America experienced discrimination and resorted to creating self governing enclaves where the thugs you refer to acted to protect their communities. They sometimes engaged in illegal activities. Stuff it if you don't like it.
I wonder why you need to respond with invective, Frank. Watching too many gangster films?
I don't tend to include that which I am convinced has never existed, but I totally agree, anyone who deep down inside, respects gangsters, are part of the problem.
Be careful Tom, perhaps his real name is Frank (The tank) D'Angelo, Bonanno Colombo Gambino Genovese Lucchese Julius Alexander Napoleon Ceasar Hitler Windsor Bampot.
You try any preversions I'll blow your head off.
Frank has such an innocent childlike profile pic as well?
I think he believes that:
They won't remember what you said, they won't remember what you did, but they'll never forget the way you made them feel. You need to stop making people feel stuff Tom. Oh the pressure! Just to make a better world! Stop it Tom! You are scaring poor innocent gangsters everywhere!
Jesus. If I had to go through this four times I’d hang myself. Feel better!
That is only during the first time, each next time you'll feel sorry you didnt right away.
Thanks man, you too.
Let the good times roll.
It's not "the standard view," it's how I feel about those movies, how I experienced them. I know myself well enough to know my opinions are not influenced significantly by others opinions. I remember what it felt like when I saw the movies.
I certainly have no problem with you feeling differently, or even criticizing my way of seeing it. We've participated in discussions about art together. I've often acknowledged that my responses are mine and not some universal truth.
Yes, I was sure of that, but still my hackles rose. I'm feeling better now.
My guess is that this is simplistic and romantic, perhaps even complete bollocks. My sketchy understanding is that the mafia primarily exploited, intimidated, and targeted other Italian immigrants. That is, they terrorized, rather than protected, their own communities.
If this is a fabrication spread by unfriendly media, I'd like to see the evidence. Unless you mean "protected" in the mafia sense, of course.
The Pope of Greenwich Village was a good take on 'the underworlish scene'.
Black Comedy? I don't remember it that way; I should see it again -- It's been a long time, I enjoyed it when I saw it. But... a young man having his thumb cut off as punishment? Or giving the boss a cup of lye instead of espresso (which he gulped, then staggered out of the coffee shop in agony)? Black alright, but not so comic.
Xanax quells the hackles' rise.
The gangster film I've been most fascinated with is "Once Upon a Time in America", although my affection for it fluctuates as the years go by. I think I found it fascinating originally because, to me at least, the idea of Jewish gangsters was fresh and exotic.
I think it is true that many immigrant groups, be they Italian, Finnish, Jewish, or... tended to form tight communities glued together by custom, memory, and language. They turned to each other because their countrymen were their community. It might look like some sort of group-defense, but was more just "stick with your own kind".
Most of the large immigrant groups, the Irish, Italians, Jews, etc. included criminal elements who preyed on their own people -- who else? A Russian Jew wasn't going to have an easy time of passing himself off as a Gaelic countryman from the old sod. He wouldn't look or sound the part.
The Italian crime families came to the US to find new pastures in which to be crooks. Who made better prey than their countrymen? (Though as time went on, the crime families branched out to provide 'services" to other cultural groups--i.e., new revenue streams.)
Another masterpiece of Sergio Leone. What I enjoyed the most was the soundtrack. Ennio Morricone did a magnificent performance.
Old Bugsy Siegel was instrumental in the creation of Las Vegas. The Jews were just as good at organized crime as the Italians (Bernie Madoff didn't take a back seat to anybody).
The Jews had operations in New York City and its metropolitan area, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Boston, Chicago, Cleveland, Detroit, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Miami, New Jersey, Orlando, Washington D.C.
Their operations included Narcotics trafficking, Racketeering, Gambling, Loan sharking, Murder, Accounting, Diamond trafficking, extortion, Weapons trafficking, Fraud, Prostitution, Smuggling, and Money laundering--the usual assortment.
The Jewish crooks tended to work with the Russian crooks and Israeli crooks.
Quoting Bitter Crank
They still be good at organised crime :wink:
George Soros :death:
Haud yer bawsack!
About Sicilian discrimination:
"Sicilian emigration to the United States grew substantially starting in the 1880s to 1914, when it was cut off by World War I. Many Sicilians planned to return home after a few years making money in the United States, but the wartime delay allowed many to assimilate into better jobs and wartime experience, so they did not return. By 1924, about 4,000,000 Sicilians emigrated to the US.[3] The Emergency Quota Act, and the subsequent Immigration Act of 1924 sharply reduced immigration from Southern Europe except for relatives of Sicilians already in the U.S.[4] This period saw political and economic shifts in Sicily that made emigration desirable. There was also a large wave of immigration after World War II. A great portion of the Sicilian immigrants would settle in New York City, New Jersey, New Haven, Buffalo, Rochester, Erie, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Boston, Pittston, Johnston, Rhode Island, Detroit, Philadelphia, Los Angeles, San Francisco, New Orleans, Milwaukee, and Birmingham.
"During the 1800s, Italian Americans, particularly Sicilians, were often not considered “white.”[5] Upon immigration, many were required to list their race as “Southern Italian” or “Sicilian” rather than white.[6] In certain parts of the South during the Jim Crow era, Sicilian even more so than Italians generally were affected by its discriminatory policies. Sicilians were sometimes more prone to discrimination than other Mediterranean groups (such as Northern Italians or Greeks). This led to one of the most notable hate crimes against Sicilian Americans, which was the trial of nineteen Sicilian immigrants for the murder of New Orleans police chief David Hennessy in 1890, which trial ended in the lynching of eleven of them by a white vigilante group.". Sicilian Americans
About the function of "mafias":
"In his analysis of the Sicilian Mafia, Gambetta provided the following hypothetical scenario to illustrate the Mafia's function in the Sicilian economy. Suppose a grocer wants to buy meat from a butcher without paying sales tax to the government. Because this is a black market deal, neither party can take the other to court if the other cheats. The grocer is afraid that the butcher will sell him rotten meat. The butcher is afraid that the grocer will not pay him. If the butcher and the grocer can't get over their mistrust and refuse to trade, they would both miss out on an opportunity for profit. Their solution is to ask the local mafioso to oversee the transaction, in exchange for a fee proportional to the value of the transaction but below the legal tax. If the butcher cheats the grocer by selling rotten meat, the mafioso will punish the butcher. If the grocer cheats the butcher by not paying on time and in full, the mafioso will punish the grocer. Punishment might take the form of a violent assault or vandalism against property. The grocer and the butcher both fear the mafioso, so each honors their side of the bargain. All three parties profit". Mafia
It is a fact that the Jewish community controls a big part of Western banks and interests. They hold a lot of power and there always been "there" controlling the world using the power. I am not a "Neo-Nazi" if I say this.
It may be the case that you’re not personally antisemitic, but the idea that Jews control the banking system and the world is indeed part of a whole suite of antisemitic conspiracy theories, so I suggest you drop it.
But...
Quoting Jamal
It is not a conspiracy, it is a fact. But don't worry I will not keep discussing this issue because whenever I am not agree with some points I feel like a "fascist" member.
I do not feel "personally attacked". I just hate bigotry.
Quoting javi2541997
Good plan.
This is what I said a lot of times when some users attacked my nation because of 1492. I said "please read other views and other sources..." but these members didn't do it. That's "bigotry" on Spanish culture too... (But it is ok to hate a Western bloody country, right?)
As I said previously, our discussion finishes here. I am sorry if you wasted your time with me.
How about the boy scouts and the girl guides etc are they Nazi based gangster stye ideologies? :lol:
Citalopram for me. If you think I'm cranky now, you should have seen me before.
Total bullshit. I live in Georgia. They could have just looked at my address and would have gotten that right.
It also did a search for other family members who had entered their data, and it turns out that I'm very closely related to my brother and uncle.
I learned nothing, although it would have been funny if this is how I would have learned I was adopted. Not haha funny, but fucked up funny.
My wife is still waiting for her results. Hers will be more interesting because she's crazy diverse, probably having Scotch, Irish, and even English genes. It'll probably just say 100% British Isles, but, who knows, maybe there's some Germanic in there.
Speaking of fucked up funny - when I did it, I found out I am very closely related to Donald Trump Jr.
As long as you weren't related to his father, that's probably ok.
Yes, I thought about that, but went ahead anyway. As I've noted in other posts, Donald Trump Jr. is and always will be funny, even the 1,000th time I use him in a joke. Much funnier than his father.
Speaking of my brother, he always responds to these sorts of comments by pointing out how they can't be true, like he'll say "he had to be related to his father if he was related to his son," or he'll say things like "you couldn't have forgotten your car keys at home if you drove here" like if I told him I left my car keys at home.
So then what I do is that I'll say what doesn't make sense and then I tell him how he's going to correct me before he can get it out of his mouth, and then I'll laugh at him for not realizing I knew it didn't make sense before I said it. Then he'll say "that's stupid," and then I'll say "you're stupid." This has been going on for over 50 years, about as long as I could talk.
He's going to miss me when he dies.
To bring an unnecessarily serious point to your ironic paean to brotherhood, my brother and I didn't really become friends until we were in our late 50s.
Sorry you had to wait so long for this response. It was really hard to figure out how to spell "paean." It's p, a, e, a, n. There, show that to your brother and see what he says.
Quoting T Clark
If you tell him over the phone, it won't be as funny.
Most Ashkenazi Jews are descended from European women.
Yeah, well my mom was from Georgia, so I don't know what all this European talk is about. If she was European I wouldn't have been able to understand her, or she at least would have had a crazy accent, but she talked totally normal, just like everyone else.
What is the other 15% of you made of?
"That's stupid. 90% + 15% is 105%"
"You're stupid."
See how this works. It never gets feckin gets old.
"That's stupid. Feckin doesn't mean fucking."
"You're stupid."
I've got another 50 years to do this, which means I'll have to live to at least 200.
...
My brother and I still aren't friends. He's stupid.
I re-read this and it pisses me off. I spit in a tube and they called me a Jew. That just doesn't sound right at all, but that's quite literally what happened. I'm going to write someone somewhere about this.
You just did.
On the one hand, I'm not worried about you being a neo-nazi; you might not be quite right about the dominance of Jews in banking. On the other hand, I don't have a lot of information about it.
Here is a list of Jewish bigwigs in American banking from Wikipedia. It seems like a long list, but the American banking and finance sector is very large. There are 8,000,000+ people working in this sector. The 5 largest banks in the US--JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Citigroup, Wells Fargo, and US Bankcorp--are worth about 9 trillion+ dollars.
Why is there even a list of Jewish people in banking? I didn't find a list of Catholic bankers at the top of the Google results. (There is, however... Thrivant For Lutherans is 332 in the Fortune 500 list. It's worth a measly $134 billion (it's a "holistic" financial services company for Lutheran church members).
So, no matter where you go, there you are. I still don't know how "truthy" all this is.
It's well known that The Spuds are in control of world liquor. I've read The Protocols to the Elders of Ethanol.
Whatever turns you down
I thought Judaism's association with banking came from the fact that in medieval times in Europe Jews were forbidden to practice many professions and Christians were not allowed to be money lenders.
The issue isn't so much the empirical question of whether there are a good number of Jewish people who are bankers, but more the question of whether Jews act together to control the banking industry in order to control the world. There is a difference, for example, in asking if a bunch of Jews happen to be doctors due to that being a cultural norm versus asking if Jews are trying to control the health and well being of the world so that they dominate the world.
I know you're not suggesting this conspiracy stuff, but it is part of the anti-Semitic rhetoric to suggest that Jews get together and control the world for the sake of other Jews. To the extent there are those who do believe Jews are orchestrating world events as part of a Jewish conspiracy to control the world for the sake of Jews, that is a Nazi notion, and I think the term "neo-Nazi" would be applicable to that person.
He should be disappointed. The name Levi signifies he was possibly a Levite, from the tribe of Levi, and therefore a priest. He would have been in charge of burnt offerings and the like, working directly with the Big Man.
That great great grandpappy JamalLevi was a tailor makes sense as well, considering Levi's is a name of pants. That's more a thing of more recent invention though, so that sounds like a coincidence. Or is it???
Mitochondrial evidence shows that at least 80% of Ashkenazi Jews are descended from families where a Jewish man married a European woman (like a German woman.)
So you and your wife are probably related.
Sure, we're related by marriage because we got married and we're related by blood because she's my sister.
I have blue eyes, so I have long since thought an Aryan jumped the fence and begot eventually me.
But it didn't show up in the DNA test. If you had a daughter or sister, I wonder if it would show up in their test.
The problem with this is that if the Jewish man married a non-Jewish woman, then the offspring isn't Jewish, so the 80% of Ashkenazi Jews you reference aren't Jews. What am I missing?
I know. It's weird. My father's side of the family is entirely brown hair and brown eyes. All of them. My mother had blue eyes and her side looks more Germanic than my father's. My father must have had a recessive blue eyed gene that never expressed on his side of the family.
I really thought some Germanic genes would have shown up, although the test was very accurate. I knew my family was from what is now Ukraine, so that was impressive.
Ashkenazi Jews are believed to be descendants of Roman Jews who spread eastward. Apparently it was usually just men who wandered out and settled down with native Germanic women. If the women converted, wouldn't the children be Jewish?
If they converted. Was that going on in high numbers at the time?
In keeping with tradition, I also wandered out and settled down with a Germanic woman and both my kids have blonde hair and blue eyes.
Levi Strauss, who you alluded to, was really good at making jeans and doing structuralist anthropology.
According to the mitochondrial DNA, it happened quite a bit.
You grew up with her; what better way to insure compatibility (or possibly murder in the case of hateful siblings)?
Quoting T Clark
I think that is true, BUT the banking operations of medieval Jews likely were not continuous into the 21st century. The Rothschilds, for example, began business in the 18th century. They made a shekel here, a shekel there, and put them in a little tin box which a little tin key unlocked. Eventually, they had a lot of shekels. [During a court hearing, the judge inquired how they had gotten so much money, They answered that "It mounted up your honor bit by bit." This is from a skit in the musical, Fiorello, about the NYC mayor.]
The credit needs of the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic wars greatly enriched the Rothschilds. Fortunes have to begin somewhere.
My disturbing fetish is of dental trauma, among other things sure, but not of dolls. That you own and own alone. Weirdo.
I'm not sure what my whoring ancestors might have done, but ancestry.com says I'm a purebred. The rest of you guys are common sad eyed pound mutts.
The only thing that makes me question my purebrededness is my gargantuan tree trunk sized trouser warrior. Such appendages typically were found only on monsters of old, before the gods stopped mating with mortals. I think I got some of that forsaken blood coursing through my veins, and such is not the blood from my forefathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
The last person with such a condition was Levi Strauss, the anthropologist, not the pantologist.
Would you be able, or willing, to condense, or transform, the story into a poem?
Or a fellow author's?
[*] for starters I'll shout out to...
@Tobias @180 Proof @Noble Dust @Baden @Jack Cummins @Benkei @Hanover @Jamal @hypericin @ucarr @god must be atheist @tim wood @_db @john27 @Athena
The question is open to all, even readers I suppose... :chin:
They had small appendages?
Their appendages were reduced through the mitzvah of bris milah. If you knew anything, such was the reason was for the commandment. Not only did it reduce the girth to a manageable level, but it made the member most handsome.
Probably unable, certainly unwilling.
Why do you ask? There are such things as narrative poems, poems that tell a story. Maybe the nearest I've come to appreciating a narrative poem is when I was sixteen and listening to Iron Maiden's musical version of "The Rime of the Ancient Mariner".
Well that makes sense, except it seems like God could have made it the correct size to begin with.
Why would you be unable? Why unwilling?
Quoting Jamal
Basically, a follow-up to a current thread and its musings:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/13562/poem-meaning
Curious about writers and their preferences.
What is it about length and form that the mind is sometimes happier to write or read?
Quoting Jamal
Yes, I know. For those that don't:
https://www.thoughtco.com/narrative-poetry-definition-examples-4580441
Quoting Jamal
Impressed. I'm not a fan of heavy.
I've been thinking about poetry - and my recent exchange with @javi2541997about haiku.
Then, I seemed to recall that some Japanese prose was accompanied by a haiku 'summary'.
Haibun.
Quoting Ray Rasmussen - English Language - Haibun
https://rays-blog.ca/english-language-haibun/
Unable because I'm no poet, and unwilling because... well, maybe you could first answer why I'd want to do such a thing.
Coward. Let your moody nakedness flow...FEEL IT GROW!! :scream:
How do you know?
Quoting Jamal
No. I asked you first. Why the initial 'certainly' negativity?
Sounds like somebody's horny.
Blow your own :rage:
I'm appealing to his passionate and creative nature :smirk:
So you like to watch? :roll:
Oh yeah :heart:
Try porn hub.
Nah, I prefer Tory conferences...oh, wait...
Is that like a daddy-issues thing?
I like writing prose, but I'm not interested in writing poems. When I read a good piece of prose fiction I feel inspired to create, because I feel I have the power to do it. When I read a good poem—which is not often—I can appreciate it and yet feel it’s something best left to others. I have no urge to do it myself.
Fair enough.
It does lie in what inspires you. Or what you are open to...
I thought it might be a challenge to the mind; to think or express in a different way.
Perhaps as a complement to the story. As per the earlier Rasmussen quote:
Quoting Ray Rasmussen - English Language - Haibun
Of course, not every writer might have a 'haiku' moment.
A snapshot encompassing the thought or feel. A single flash.
Who knows - a reader might comment on a story in 3 lines...?
Save a lot of writing. Might give it a go...or not.
Interesting challenge though, for those who feel the urge.
It's quite fascinating. The overlap.
Perhaps it's easier for poets to become novelists than v.v.?
https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/tip-sheet/article/67730-10-best-novels-by-poets.html
Yeah, quite the challenge to turn the mind...to develop and grow.
The Epic Ballad of the Man for Hanoveria
A man from Hanoveria, with a cock the size of a tree trunk, comes to our presence.
It swings pendulously in the wind, like a elephant trunk slightly severed near the tusk.
Shouldn't that be "an" elephant and not "a" elephant?
Yes, it should, and actually it'd have been better just to correct that instead of asking it in the poem.
Blood pours profusely down the elephant's mouth, although there isn't actually an elephant but the elephant was just being used as a simile to describe the cock, yet now I'm telling you about the elephant as if he actually exists.
Who is this "I" being referenced? Is it the man from Hanoveria?
I'm not sure?
Who's not sure?
Me.
His cock crashes into teeth, furniture, and small animal life.
A raccoon goes missing.
Is he preparing to dance?
Stand back!
The cock it mocks, menaces, and trolls.
What do you mean it trolls?
Isn't that a computer forum word?
Why do you keep asking questions in the middle of this poem?
I don't know. It seems funny, but maybe it's just typical Hanover can't keep focused on thought shit.
You think?
Maybe.
The dance it begins.
"You can tell by the way I walk, I'm a woman's man no time to talk."
Like the taste of apple pie, the sound of the Bee Gees fills the room.
How can a taste fill a room?
What?
How can a taste fill a room?
I heard you the first time.
The cock it inch worms and crawls out the door.
Into the street it slithers, leaving gestation in its path.
Babies emerge, lactation sprays forth, life springs eternal!
And he sits head in hands on the park bench, feeding the pigeons, wondering when the next bus will come.
Thoughts?
Brilliant :rofl:
Now, Dancing Queen @Hanover, how about applying your genius and give us a 4-liner on:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12321/a-christmastime-valentines-day-love-story-by-hanover
Weirder, creepier - perhaps my fetish isn't for dolls but for you.
Quoting Hanover
Yeah, the whole scene :lol:
Quoting Hanover
Whose teeth?
The Bee Gees? Staying Alive.
Quoting Hanover
I cannot speak of genitalia for we all have a pair and some a crevice.
What I can speak and to admire your fair tits in my hand acquire. And if your cat your pussycat was to meow and then to purr I’d give you a pet my cockerel to you and then to her.
And if this was not enough my fair mistress I’d marry you quickly then divorce you twice as fast if I found out your crevice was formerly a trunk with which you used to spunk
I keep finding bits I like. You think? Maybe...
It all chimes if not rhymes with the awareness thingy going down...
Not a poem, I think, but a symptom. I'll check DSM-5.
It's not 'free verse'; it is more like 'escaped verse' that wasn't properly guarded.
Tis not dirty I said it so in an orgy all shall go.
Those who come and came before will be tired
And head for the door.
Those who can’t come at all shall keep on going
Till they drop on the floor.
And as the woman moan with glee it turns out
Soon all pregnant they all shall be.
If I didn’t know my dad and through s grapevine heard of this circumstance I’d shout with joy and not with sorrow my mums a whore and my dad more so.
Back to reality. The poet as.
The detached onlooker.
Lonely like Eleanor Rigby.
Or an old lady singing ''Feed the birds, tuppence a bag''.
So sad :cry: :groan:
The dance. So cool :cool: :sparkle:
With that idea in mind, I wrote this:
Taking the infant out from the basket
throwing it under the feet of the culprit
Her soft unformed skull squishing so sideways
forming the shape like a marshmallow shoe.
The mother relaxing now the man interrupted
but her baby lie dying like a broken balloon
Efforts at saving being ever so futile
baby debris all over the room.
The officer wrote down the time and location
being so certain and keeping it true
He talked to the witness and drew on the floorboard
then pulled out his weapon and fired it too.
As she finished her dying, a woman came running
with bleach on her hands and soap on her shoe
She cried out there wanting to know what need cleaning
holding her rag free and flagging the moon
The shocked people stopped before they departed
asking themselves who this woman might be
A young boy then up and he did then grab her
She spun and she punched until she was loose
The crowd circled round looking and staring
screaming and yelling at the fight that ensued.
She bit and she clawed and he went out yelling
before her elbow swung crashing and splashing so loudly
He fell back defeated, the crowd deeply saddened
throwing rocks and potatoes wherever the could
She fended them off and continued her cleaning
despite their best efforts to stop her too soon
When the room was all finished and the infant all buried
the lady stopped cleaning and walked out of the room.
The culprit stood humbly at the show that had ended
and the mother talked speechless as she held onto the broom.
I know what you guys are thinking. Another gem of a poem.
I like it
Unpleasant and dehumanizing with no redeeming humor or purpose. An inconsiderate poem.
I disagree. The cleaning woman was lovely. She added a wonderful touch of humanity.
Throwing babies under feet so that their skulls mold around the shoes like marshmallows is a dash of humor as well.
Billy Collins, Poet Laureate, says this about poetry and meaning:
Billy Collins teaches a poetry writing master class on line. Master classes are taught by masters. They don't make you a master, but they might make you into a monster. You could be like out dear Hanover, able to tap into the unspeakable in a light and lively manner. Always in demand.
I would be able and willing to do so, but why? What motivated you to ask the question?
Well said, Billy Collins.
This reminds me of the character Lotaria in Calvino's If on a winter's night a traveler. Lotaria is an academic who reads books with a theoretical agenda. She's interested in books only for their themes, which, she thinks, reveal what books really mean. She has nothing but contempt for her sister, who reads for enjoyment.
She talks to an author about his books. He relates the conversation:
The point of course is to show the philistinism of the purportedly sophisticated academic approach to literature. I watched a video the other day with some English professor saying that that he doesn't care much about plot, that he reads for the themes instead. I think this has seeped into popular consciousness, and that it's wrongheaded. As if those were the only two things available from a work of literature.
I keep meaning to start a discussion about this. Reading for entertainment is popularly opposed to reading that is in some way deeper, e.g., reading for themes, symbols, hidden meanings, messages, social commentary, etc. This annoys me, because an entertainment need not be formulaic or require only passive reading; looking for what a work of literature really means is not a more intelligent or enriching way to read it.
Fuck, I need to get back in to poetry.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Moral vs. aesthetic assessments.
I'm on the fence on this one.
I did some computer processing of texts back in the 1990s, but my aim wasn't to understand the text. My aim was to identify the differences between easy-to-read adult material and difficult-to-read material (by adult I mean books adults read) and state the differences in a way writers could use the information.
Full disclosure: the real theme of this textual research was figuring out how to make my new Macintosh computer do stuff. Once I figured out how to feed the computer a text and get it to parse it in a several ways, that project was finished. Yes, I did learn something about language, but mostly I learned about the computer. Nobody ever used what I discovered. Except me.
Good to hear.
You need to turn back 17hrs to follow my chat with @Jamal starting:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/28/the-shoutbox/p1331
Quoting Amity
Just wondering about multi-potentials...
Quoting Hanover
A typical tale. For you, perhaps? :wink:
Do you delight in expressing the dark side of the mind?
Quoting Hanover
[Reminds me of your prize-winning TPF story:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11523/dead-baby-shoes-by-hanover ]
An unwanted baby. Perhaps the result of rape. The culprit still on the scene and threatening.
His baby used against him.
Quoting Hanover
The man stopped but at what cost? Infanticide. A messy room. We feel the hopelessness. Deflated.
Quoting Hanover
A policeman 'keeping it true'? If that was the case, the mother would have been arrested.
Talked to only one witness. Where was the 'culprit'?
Why would the officer fire his weapon? Ah, not a gun. Perhaps another dick discharge?
A good deed done, indeed...the mother 'saved' by a favour...
Quoting Hanover
The mother's soul 'dying' or a cleaning lady deleting a colour with bleach.
Reminds me of mafia killings and the crime-scene clean-up.
I'm not sure about the moon reference - symbolism - female energy, full moon madness...
[tea-break]
Quoting Hanover
Excited rubber-necking neighbours annoyed with the interference. Picked a fight with the wrong person.
Where were they hiding during domestic violence?
Quoting Hanover
I like this 'splashing' of more blood? Another clean-up.
Quoting Hanover
Against all odds and being pelted, the woman survived.
Reminds me of the fundamental religious against the so-called sins of women.
And women being criminalised for failed births.
https://www.rferl.org/a/afghan-rights-group-investigates-video-of-woman-being-stoned-to-death/30414665.html
In response, the Taliban said on Twitter that the punishment of stoning for adultery is an “Islamic ruling that cannot be rejected by any Muslim.”
US women are being jailed for having miscarriages
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59214544
***
Quoting Hanover
Now the woman is the 'lady' not just a 'cleaning lady' in the usual sense. More like an avenging angel.
Righting the wrongs.
The culprit, the man, now apparently humble.
The mother dumbfounded and bemused nevertheless had something to hold on to.
A broom: a cleaning tool. For attack or defence...to sweep the dirt away. A new start?
An act of cleansing. The mind. 'The lunatics are in my hall'.
And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too
I'll see you on the dark side of the moon
The lunatic is in my head
The lunatic is in my head
You and I have discussed this before and we agree. I mostly read for entertainment, although I think there is a third way other than for "meaning" as you describe it. That's to read to share the writer's experience. Then again, maybe that's the same as one of the other two.
I stole your quote from Billy Collins for post in the "Poem meaning" thread.
As I noted in a comment, I think perhaps a psychiatric assessment is more appropriate. I don't see much of positive value in it by any standard.
Speaking to you as a member and not as a moderator, I'd rather not have to read stuff like that here.
Editing and interpretation are completely different acts. I don't mind being edited in appropriate situations. That often happened when I was an engineer. I am egoist enough to think my original words were almost always better than the edited version.
Yeah, well you're wrong in your assessment for whatever it's worth. You mistake absurdity for reality. It's much like misunderstanding sarcasm, where you think a comment about the freezing cold 100 degree weather is evidence that the speaker has a neurological problem where he can't sense the cold. He would be saying the exact opposite.
You also don't explain why the writer wouldn't have the same visceral reaction to the situation as you would, meaning it's just as consistent to project upon the writer criticism of the situation as opposed to advocacy of it.
But anyway, I don't take myself seriously on such things as I realize it's just the 30 minute work of a guy sitting in front of his computer pissing around, and it well could suck beyond suck, but I don't think your criticism of it is correct, at least not in the sense that you've correctly read my intent.
First off, the comment about psychiatric assessment was me being a smart ass. As for the rest, I assumed you were being a smart ass. If you're fair, you'll admit that, given your history, that is a reasonable way of seeing it. So... I did not give it a serious reading. Even now, I can't help suspecting your reaction to my post is a put on.
Even if I suspect someone is taking the piss and will laugh at my 'take' on things, I give them the benefit of the doubt. It's no skin off my nose, even if I fall flat on my face.
I read the poem and commented, for better or worse. It was a useful exercise.
Yes. Dear God yes.
As I noted, I wasn't writing to you as a moderator, just as a fellow human being. Both of us the targets of unspeakable literary attack.
:lol:
The poetry is definitely easier to pretend never happened.
And your comments are always very appreciated. They really are, and they are what makes our contests worthwhile. Most people aren't willing (and probably able) to look deeply into our amateurish efforts at art and give useful feedback.
I have self-censored so many great pieces of art from you guys. It's sort of like when something smells or tastes really terrible, you have to ask people to smell it or taste it. I guess y'all are the ones who refuse those great opportunities.
I remain skeptical of your sincerity.
That's what makes you so endearing.
Yeah, I really get that. I am a soul seeker :razz:
I hope others will participate more come the time.
Not sure I'll be able...or willing. Balancing my brain budget.
And don't start hitting on me, creeps
I remain skeptical of your sincerity.
I'm considering responding to all your posts like this from now on. Just think how much time it will save both of us.
I have learned my lesson.
Yeah, so if you go to the app store and get FaceApp, you can pull a picture in of anyone and then alter it by aging it, making it younger, adding facial hair, glasses, and even changing gender. The free version (which I have) is limited, but still with plenty of features. The pay version allows more modifications.
Freaky stuff.
I will now have to rethink my entire existence.
Me too.
I guess. I'm not sure it would work for me though.
:fire: :up:
That's OK. I've moved on. Knitting me a new existence...
You should try Fartapp. It renders you as a gaseous substance that just escaped someone's arse. You might find it comfortingly closer to reality,
Fall you great carcass
And get it over with
You've hung there too long making us cringe
We'll be better when you're gone
With clouds to melt our hearts
we'll rejoice and never cry again
You'll rot into the ground
and blend with the black
As if you'd never been to blot out the sun
He's not that bad... :gasp:
Come on @Jamal, get your girly on.
I tried the app and all it did was let me modify farts from one smell to the other. It sort of freaked me out to have eaten eggs, but to instead have farts the smell of chili dogs that don't actually exist.
I have to once again rethink my existence.
It's
I spent too much time on that.
Yep, already thought of manipulating the pics you post here. One step ahead of you guys.
But for real. What are you doing this weekend?
Ozzie Osbourne???
Depressingly, you look more intellectual than the rest of us. :sad:
Good God man, stop hitting on him. Just because he changed his pic doesn't mean he's not still a dude.
"You look more intellectual than the rest of us" give me a break. Is that all the game you got?
For some reason I wasn’t comfortable posting a picture of myself as a teen female.
When you woke up this morning, I'm guessing you never thought you'd post this comment. Ever.
I'm proud to have played a part in making that happen.
Which do you prefer?
Prefer for what?
I liked the second picture. You looked more girl next door instead of bookish.
But to the question on the table: Every whichaway.
That's going to take me like a half hour, but a joke's a joke and it's gotta be done.
You're Donald Trump, Jr., and I'm wondering why you haven't turned him into a girl, but he'll probably just look like Ivanka.
I know, right. I look like I'm out with my parents for pizza.
I can do this all day.
Trust me, I know. My brother and kids have been bombarded with one crazy pic after the other since I discovered this app. And if I overcome my cheapness and buy the upgrade for a month, it'll start all over again.
Is it wrong if you want to date yourself?
A whole new avenue there...
Likely. No doubt there’s an incel out there who’s fallen in love with his female self. What happens next we’ll never know, but it’s good material for a short story by Hanover.
I resent that accusation.
It's more the age difference than that she's actually you.
I am sure that I would get on better in life if I really did look like that! Perhaps that is my anima or psychic twin which you have conjured up from the collective unconscious.
This is a citizen's banning. @Hanover, @Baden, and @Jamal are hereby banned for egregiously low quality posts and general creepiness.
Only you can decide whether to make that change :wink:
I can't believe you did this. I hope you asked permission. One of the reasons members DON'T post their real names and pics is for anonymity; to prevent misuse of identity. And so on.
Did any of you 'boys with toys' read the Terms and Conditions before signing up?
Soul seeking
Snapping
Face App
To it
You are
Lost
Taking others down with you
Next up AI
Mind changing
Transformation
Good to Bad
And Vice Versa
Colour in the future
Inflate bleak balloons
It's party time
But whose? Black or white
Read or blew
The choice is yours
Or not...
Quoting Privacy International
But that was 2019. Things could have changed...hmm...
It says more when it appears alongside TPF Guidelines.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/480/site-guidelines
Quoting Privacy International
@Jamal Still waiting for a reply.
Did @Jack Cummins know what you were doing and the potential dangers?
As it happens, I have a sense of humour and often when I look at people I wonder what they would look like as a member of the opposite gender. It was a bit surreal finding the picture on the Shoutbox though. It is very strange that photo technology can do this. When I saw the pictures of the other members I thought that Baden as a teenage girl looked rather pretty and mine looked a bit strange, especially the eyes peering out from the glasses was a a bit uncanny.
That isn't the focus of my concern. It's about more than you.
See previous posts and quotes from Privacy International.
But if you're fine with it, that's OK.
I wonder if @180 Proof would feel the same if his photo had been used in this way.
Perhaps he would laugh too...
*shrugs*
Experiment, experiment, experiment!
You only live once! Right guys & gals?
I do see your point. It probably says a lot about the internet itself and possibilities of fake news and the way things can be changed.
I wonder why you chose your picture. I think that the image you had for your Madfool identity was so different. I wonder if people view your responses differently in the two identities and whether you notice any differences in the responses you receive.
Great question Jack! Apart from not wanting to give people nightmares (I'm Quasimodo), I haven't the slightest clue why I selected that particular pic of Agent Smith - availability/not copyrighted/free? Free? Alhamdulillah! Mashallah! Subhanallah!
Oh, the shit hits the fan. Jackie Cummins' face is now in the data base of the evil empire. The problem here is that people can take your picture anytime they want, and send that picture wherever they want. My kids sent my picture to the app without me knowing. How do you propose we prevent stuff like that? Make it illegal to take someone's picture without their permission? Make the picture taken the property of the person it is taken of, rather than the taker? What if the picture's of multiple people?
Quoting Amity
Never mind. Jack has responded.
Yeah, I know. I don't like it. And it can't be prevented.
I've also signed up to Google without paying attention to all the Terms. Agreeing to whatever...
I have sold my very soul :cry:
I used to take pictures in the streets to do drawings and paintings from. I began doing this at school and no one seemed to mind. However, once I looked like an adult I began to get people objecting, querying my motivations. I found it a shame because I was using the photos as a basis for making my own original art. I used to take photos in Camden town, but if I tried doing this now, I would probably get beaten up. At times, people did like to be in my photos but, then, they began adopting strange poses which wouldn't have worked in my drawings.
Strangely, I have had people photographing me and a photo of me sitting, reading on the floor in a library appeared in an exhibition. I am not sure to what extent it is an infringement to take photos for art, especially as people are on CCTV anyway. Are our bodies copyright as private or are they public?
You are not getting much support for your position. At least know I agree with you. It is disrespectful and inappropriate to use a member's photo without permission. It's fine that Jack Cummins doesn't mind, but it's beside the point. Jamal should know better.
Disagree.
Yeah, you're wrong.
You're defending a theoretical victim, who you postulate as one who would care if his public profile picture were manipulated, yet you acknowledge he doesn't actually exist. There is no victim, just a violation of some rule you made up, which says that profile pictures are off limits to being processed through some app.
Baloney.
Yeah and thanks. It can be lonely on the high road to nowhere.
Meaning that it's usually a waste of time. Positions are entrenched with little to no 'give'.
I've tried to make sense of TPF's 'Terms of Service'. It would seem that all contributors' content, including PMs, can be used any which way...but I'm sure that's not right, is it?
I've always wondered if Admin could read our PMs.
Paranoid, me? Not much.
In the case of someone who posts their real name and current photo, they're not going to bother much.
I see it as a matter of principle that permission should be sought where possible, and not just a mention after the event.
It's more than being 'cheeky', it's getting carried away with the sheer thoughtless entertainment of it all.
Fair enough, anything goes in the Shoutbox and politics...
No, we can't.
Well, you would say that, wouldn't you?
It doesn't matter. I'm a spy. I know what to do...
Only if it were true.
:rofl:
No. Jamal is the epitome of a truth-teller.
Just laughing at the absurdity of everything. Myself included.
Is that OK with you?
I don't think we can be in public under a dome of presumed privacy or 'copyright'. When we are actually "in private" at home or in an otherwise public space designated as "private" we can quite properly object to being photographed--even take legal action. We lose "privacy" when we are in public.
In public we are available for observation and record making (like photography, sound recording, etc). We might object to being photographed sitting on the floor of the library; cruising in the park; eating unhealthy food choices at lunch. We might object to the way the photograph was taken and displayed, but we can't prevent it from happening.
Is that going too far in favoring the prerogatives of the photographer?
If one is wearing an atrocious outfit in pubic--clashing plaids, stripes, and floral patterns and poorly fitting--we have made ourselves a spectacle suitable for an unflattering photograph. Same for walking down the street minding our own nondescript business.
Cameras-in-phones are ubiquitous; we probably can't tell when we are being photographed.
It depends where you are. In Spain, for instance, it's against the law to take photos of people in public without permission. I didn't know this when I went to live in Spain and incurred much Spanish wrath when I attempted street photography.
You're being video recorded constantly by street cameras, store cameras, police cameras, and dash cameras, not to mention having your movements charted with phone GPS, car GPS, license plate cameras, credit card usage, cell phone pings, internet usage, and on and on and on.
I heard they located Bin Laden by finding a home that had no internet activity and no flow of information out. That is, by not communicating, you are communicating.
This whole privacy thing ended long ago. The only meaningful counterintelligence I've been able to use to throw off the authorities is creating a fake profile picture where I portray myself as a hip young woman. I'm not sure if I've shared that technology here, but if you guys are interested, I can show you what I can do to people's pictures. You can even manipulate the pictures whether they agree or not.
I think that photography and art involve complex areas of identification and anonymity. If someone creates a work of art in which individuals can be recognised it is where it becomes dubious. Funnily enough, with the photo image which @Jamal made of me it probably didn't look that much like me and anyone looking at it would not notice a resemblance unless it had been pointed out.
When I used to do drawings and paintings based on photos of people, I thought that there was probably a need to make some changes. This applies to writing too. For example, when people write novels a lot may be based on personal experiences, including people one has known. However, if 'fiction' is written in such a way that real people are depicted it could lead to offense or even libel. So, in art there may need to be a way of juggling and juxtaposing so that art remain art rather than expositions of private lives.
It kinda looked like you with a wig on.
Not really, because my jawline is much more angular and the skin was far too smooth. If you saw me in real life you would see the difference! Even photos which do have some accuracy capture a specific image or representation and it does come down to the complexity of the phenomenology of perception.
All artistic and photographs capture a fleeting moment and impression, and it may be that portrait painting, in it's more lengthy observational quality, is able to portray a deeper and more intimate portrayal of a person.
I see where you're going. You're saying every male only looks male because we're contrasting their appearance to a female version of them which lurks in the background like a phantom.
I don't think he was saying that at all, but to the extent you are saying it, it says something about a person that they look at a man and try to decipher the female within that person. I can't say I've ever looked at a man and thought to myself what that person would like as a woman, but I can say that I've had some fucked up thoughts. That's just not one of them.
What does it say?
It says only very positive things, like that you want to see the whole person, both their female and male persona. It's lovely really. Very inspirational.
In my post to Jack, I edited out the part about dredging up the Anima from the depths like Cthulhu, writhing with suckered tentacles. I may have some personal issues.
In some ways, I do believe in an essential androgyny, like the yin and the yang, even though it may be apparent in some more than others. A couple of weeks ago I wrote a thread on what is the difference between men and women. Of course, there are chromosomes and hormones but it may be that culture exaggerates these in performance, especially in stereotypes of behaviour and physical differences.
I think we live in a more androgynous time. In the past, like in medieval Europe, blurring the lines actually freaked people out. Joan of Arc, for instance, was burned for the crime of wearing men's clothing. For us, the imperative is to see the humanity of women, something denied them in the past.
Although having said that, I just recently posted a video about energy that mentions a female genius who developed the idea of gravitational potential energy. So I guess there were people who realized the truth all along.
Yeah, it goes back farther than that.
"The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God." Deuteronomy 22:5.
Old ideas are hard to shake.
I'll resist the urge to modify the good officer's likeness.
Do you have Deuteronomy memorized?
"No idea, that song was before my time."
I’m relieved you’ve changed your avatar back to a real picture of you.
Just stop it. Immediately!
Quoting frank
Not so, Frank. It is true that Jeanne d'Arc wore men's clothing when she engaged in military activity on behalf of France against the English. Her real crime was a) helping the French beat the English and b) taking military advice from saints.
Sometime around 1429, give or take 15 minutes, St. Michael, St. Catherine, and St. Margaret spoke to Jeanne d'Arc. a 16 year peasant wench, and instructed her to aid the Dauphin in capturing Reims and therefore the French throne. Jeanne, being obedient to the visiting saints' military advice, resolved to help the man who the saints apparently favored for the kingship of France. She was quite successful. The Dauphin was crowned Charles VII with Joan standing nearby.
So, that's why she is the patron saint of France.
Now, what about her burning at the stake?
This all happened during the Hundred Years War, you understand, between France on the one hand and the alliance of Burgundy and England on the other. After her victories, The Burgundians captured Miss d'Arc and sold her to the English. The English tried her for the crime of heresy. What heresy? The heresy of receiving direct instruction from saints or God himself, rather than through proper church channels. At the time, the church was quite fussy about stuff like that.
It is true that Miss d'Arc wore men's clothing. She was a soldier. Take a look at 14th century women's clothing and you will see the obvious problem of soldiering while dressed like that. Men's clothing didn't look all that practical either, but that's another story. While she was in prison awaiting le barbecue, she was told to dress properly, which she did for a while. But then she switched back to men's clothing on the advice of Saints Catherine and Margaret. St. Michael was no longer interested in her case, evidently. At this point, her clothing was incidental. She had already been sentenced to the flame--for heresy, remember, not transvestism.
Get it?
She was tried by the Burgundians. There was only one Englishman at the trial and he didn't stay for the whole thing. The English didn't care. The Burgundian clergy did, because they had denied the Dauphin. If Joan was right, that he was the rightful King, then they had committed blasphemy.
Joan recanted, which was all the clergy really wanted, but there was one priest who wanted her dead. He arranged to have her feminine clothes removed from her room and men's clothing supplied. She put on the men's clothes and was subsequently found guilty of that crime, which carried the punishment of burning.
Bizarrely, we know all this because the transcript of the trial still exists.
Just the pervy stuff.
There was a lot at stake here, particularly the legitimacy of the Throne of France. If Miss Arc was a Heretic, and if she crowned the French King, then his elevation to the throne was defective. I still don't think her clothing was the main issue. Sumptuary laws (governing what different groups of people could and could not wear) were in force, and the court felt queasy contemplating a peasant woman wearing knights' armor. Quelle horreur!!!
Heresy was a big deal too, back in the day. The church was not above digging up dead heretics who had not been adequately punished in life and burning their corpses at the stake. (Talk about bizarre.)
BTW, Joan wasn't canonized until 1920. She was revered as the savior of France, or protector, or benefactor, or something long before she obtained sainthood.
That's just the crime for which she was convicted. She recanted, so she couldn't be convicted of heresy.
My knowledge comes from a really good book about the image of Joan over the centuries. Couldn't tell you the title now.
this made me laugh out loud
Question: Have you heard about or witnessed dogs riding the subways by themselves?
There is also a video about dog packs in Moscow who aren't cute or charming (not speaking of the officials in the Kremlin).
On the other hand, Athens seems to have pretty friendly stray dogs, as does Istanbul. The film "Stray" follows some stray dogs around Istanbul over several months time. One of the funny scenes is the response of a sanitation worker who has tossed two big bones from a slaughter house to two dogs not he street. They fight over 1 bone. He hollers "Can't you share?" It's a charming film. I suppose liking dogs would help.
*Tips hat*
So, what about my question? You're the music freak, no?
I heard about those dogs long before I had any connection to Moscow, about ten years ago when the story was going around the world. There was a local animal behaviour researcher who had established that about twenty of the dogs that sheltered in the stations actually knew how to use the metro system to get around, to some extent.
While I've been living in Moscow I haven't seen many strays except around the outer suburbs (though there are many in other towns), and I don't recall seeing any on the metro. That said, the Moscow metro is huge and I've seen only a fraction of it, mostly the central parts. I asked my wife about the dogs a couple of years ago and she hadn't heard about them (she doesn't use the metro so that might be why).
I did a quick search online and can't find any updates about the situation. Maybe the local authority cleared them out as part of the preparations for the 2018 World Cup.
I've seen a couple of statues of dogs in the metro. One of them commemorates a dog called Malchik:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malchik
Having struggled to use the Istanbul metro, I'm impressed.
Yes, isn't that strange? The females created by the app seem to have very smooth (sort of artificial) skin. Some sort of gender stereotyping there. The look seems to appeal to Hanover.
Quoting Jamal
We should never forget Laika. That's a dog who knew that travel meant more than just roaming the city on the metro.
Yet another incredible dog tale, the loyalty and dedication speaks volumes.
Speaking of dogs, Pretzel chillaxing.
The congressional panel investigating the deadly attack on the US Capitol last year has voted to subpoena Donald Trump.
Alex Jones fined almost $1 billion.
Iranian protests continue.
Putin and the Russian hawks, not doing so well.
These hope stories must really depress the very few anti-life people here on TPF.
I will enjoy my beers and single malt tonight!
Cheers guys! The only way to run, remains, straight towards the fight.
The 'smooth skin' in the FaceApp is probably more in line with airbrushing techniques used in the magazines and the media. The women and the male pop stars appear with no blemishes and even the fruit in pictures is unusually smooth and colour enhanced. It leaves what appears in photos to be smoother and sparkling in an unrealistic way. It is about artificial stereotypes just like the thin girl models often chosen for fashion models.
Even when doing drawings and paintings there is the question of whether one should flatter or draw all blemishes a person has. Really, I prefer realism rather than the artificial. Mind you, when I used to run art groups, some people used to draw me and the pictures were pretty grim! The really brave people are those who are willing to be models for life drawing classes.
She's been chillaxing in this same position for like 3 days now. Totes adorbs!
Probably just really tired.
Given that information, please let me know what to put on the walls. I'm really bad at decorating and so I turn to the Shoutbox, my only resource.
First off, how about a bust for the credenza. Since you are an attorney, it could be Hammurabi or Perry Mason. If you can get this from the Louvre, you can put it on the floor next to your desk. It shows Hammurabi getting the Code from the God of Justice. The Code itself is inscribed beneath the sculpture.
Sure, I'm joking a bit, but I don't think a bust is a bad idea.
Synchronicitously, I was just before looking here reading a (brilliant) essay by Henry Miller referencing this (from the compendium "Sunday After the War".)
Great minds think alike. And then there are you and I.
Dinner: Shrimp scampi. 7 frozen jumbo shrimps thawed, s&p, breaded in all purpose flower, sautéd in butter and olive oil, pasta (cavatappi, a go-to) boiled, then the sauce built in the shrimp pan (sans shrimp). White wine (Italian Verdicchio from the Marche), half a lemon, butter, olive oil, a clove of garlic, dried oregano. Cook off the wine, add the shrimp and pasta, splash of pasta water, combine. Delicious and very easy. Paired with a glass of said Verdicchio (always cook with wine you want to drink).
Quoting Tom Storm
Congratulations for beating the odds!
Not with shrimp, no.
I'm not sure "gems" is the word I would use. For some of us, it's been an uncomfortable 24 hours since faceapp was introduced to the forum.
Love scampi. Yours sounds great. I like it with linguini, but to each his own.
I checked on line. Perhaps not in the British Isles, but most other places, including Italy, scampi is a shrimp or prawn dish.
I would have joined in but my old specimen of a phone can't download it.
Quoting T Clark
Thanks. I just made this based on what I had on hand, which was cavatappi. Linguine is of course the classic choice.
Quoting Jamal
Indeed; it's an Italian-American pasta dish.
I see there’s a definition in Merriam-Webster: “large shrimp prepared with a garlic-flavored sauce”. I wasn’t aware of that.
In any case, I can recommend the mini-lobster Nephrops norvegicus, or langoustines, as I call them. They’re called scampi when fried in batter or breadcrumbs.
I watch some British youtube cooking shows, so I'm familiar. Sounds great.
Quoting Jamal
That's probably true. There's a skit from long long ago involving "Shrimp Scampi"...I wish I could remember what it was. It might throw a new light on this discussion, but alas.
He really is aff his freaking heid!
I'll give you an anecdote that feels a bit similar. From long, long ago, but we still talk about it. We were visiting my brother in France. He, his wife, my wife, my two children, and I took a weekend trip to Belgium and Luxembourg. On the way home, we stopped off at a quaint restaurant in a little village in Belgium for a late lunch. It was beautiful. By a river. We were the only ones there. We ordered and my daughter asked for lapin. We were sitting there looking out the window when we saw the owner, an older women, come out, get in her car, and drive into the village. A little later she returned. She had gone to the butcher's to get the rabbit for my daughter's lunch. I love Europe.
I didn't like him until I turned 50.
Yes, that would have been a better parallel to your story. I'm going to tell the story your way from now on.
I'm gonna go buy me some owl decoys to see if that'll work. Apparently it's a federal offense to shoot a hawk, so I have to figure a humane way to deal with this.
Such is the life of a farmer.
Alternatively, I think that Hammurabi stele from the Louvre might do the trick.
Hammurabi's stele weighs about 4 tons, Do you have any idea how much UPS will charge to ship it to Atlanta? Plus, UPS will need armed men to carry the thing out of the Louvre -- unless Hanover distracts the guards by throwing tomato soup on the Mona Lisa. But then, what will happen to Hanover? How will enraged Frenchmen act?
I've already bought a cockerel, but he's too young to protect just yet, but a phallic shaped object is often a good stand in for too small a cockerel, so thanks for the suggestion. Perv.
Next time, run out dressed as an enormous chicken wiv attitude! The hawk will never come back and will warn all its hawk mates about the monster chicken that almost terrified it to death.
Maybe you could borrow this guys littl ol chickadee.
When I get a break from work I'll start cooking again.
Sorry but the shape or type of pasta makes a big difference to me. I looked up cavatappi pasta and I'm surprised you used it for that dish. Linguini or spaghetti would be the right one.
@Hanover is a wealth attorney. It is my understanding he had a major role in President Trump's attempt to coerce Georgia's Secretary of State to find those 11,748 votes. I heard he is close personal friends with Donald Trump Jr. I'm sure DTJ would lend him the money.
I completely agree. I reserve bowtie pasta for formal occasions and serve penny pasta to my pauper guests.
The chickens ate them! That's why they had to send in the chicken hawk.
That's at least as good an explanation as those given by the former president's supporters.
Thanks for the laugh. I needed that! :blush:
He left voluntarily.
Really? Or are you guessing?
Haven't seen him in a long time, it would be a shame cause he's quite interesting.
I believe someone like @frank and @Srap Tasmaner might enjoy this. I'd have to figure out which portions to focus on, so as to not make it more than, say, 12 pages. Something like that.
You are right, it is only my guess. He wasn't banned. It is 3 months since his last comment.
Sounds good. :up:
Hopefully he's just taking a break or on a vacation or something along those lines.
Yes, we were advised about 3 months ago that Wayfarer had opted out of this forum. I understand he felt he had come to the end of his stint here - perhaps the ongoing cycle of similar discussions no longer provided him with the sustenance he preferred. I miss his stuff.
Few authors give me more pleasure than Hume.
I believe he left the raft behind.
He said this in some manner? Last I see from his posts he was engaged in discussions as usual.
I figure given that he's been here for so long, he would've said straight out that he is leaving.
Great. I'll figure out what section I want to emphasize such that it will not take too long to read, but also that it should have lots of substance.
The news was relayed second hand from a mod, if I remember correctly.
Damn. That's a shame and a loss for this forum.
Well, hopefully there will be other Buddhist-Idealist-Platonists around, they are rather underrepresented. :)
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/731032
As far as I remember one of the mods provided this when asked.
Yes; he was one of the reasons I decided to start posting at the old forum, although I didn't get on much until this one.
I had a chat to Wayfarer off line at one point and he indicated that he wanted a change of scene - nothing dire.
Thank you for the info.
I PM'ed with him with relative frequency, we shared plenty of similar ideas - with some disagreements of course, which were minor.
Oh well, this is how it goes. Best to continue discussing those topics which he was interested in, which are quite fascinating.
Ah, ok. We will see.
Highlight the text you want to quote in the person's post. The "quote" box will appear; click it.
You mean like this? I forget.
I believe Wayfarer had gotten to a point where he needed to progress further in his understanding of the reality of the immaterial, to find further release from the constraints imposed by the material world. He seemed to have gotten bogged down in some perceived need to defend his beliefs against the non-believers; and this turned into a futile and frustrating task, with the materialists surrounding him and closing in on all sides.
But he's far better off to spend his time studying and developing a more complete understanding of the things he believes in, enjoying his own freedom, than to try to provide freedom for those who chose to lock themselves within their own prejudices.
Thankyou very much!
The Buddhist raft?
Are you confident that you can list what his beliefs were?
Whatever floats his boat. I think there are plenty of different views here, even if some views are somewhat more popular than others.
Nevertheless, finding things to study and learn is always worth the time - especially so in fields such as this, which requite plenty of reading and thinking about difficult topics.
Hah!
However, Raymond Tallis' books frequently deal with the "view from nowhere" topic, even if not (always) stated directly.
Perhaps.
Peace xxoo
Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is the shout box!!!!!!! Why dial it down a tone?????????
Not sure if you figured it out, but highlight the text you want to quote by using your shift key and arrows and then it will pop up the word "quote" which if you click will quote it down in the box where you type.
You're new here. Perhaps you should wait a while before offering condescending advice.
He's been here longer than you have.
As I noted, that is the subject of this thread.
It was incredibly general advice about something that should be universal - politeness. But you're correct, it probably was a bit condescending in retrospect. Sorry!
In my defence I am a returning customer to this forum from years ago, and was a very regular poster in an earlier incarnation of this site hosted by someone else (yes technically a different forum).
I suppose my thought was that sometimes newbies can see things that aren't normative in a way that old hands can't. I wasn't speaking about my own feelings being hurt as much as lurking and seeing general rudeness, but I'll be more careful of my critiques in future!
How long did you wait?
Is this how you do it in Ubuntu or something?
MS DOS, maybe.
I was using a highlighter, but I ended up with marks all over my screen, so I changed it to this way.
I believe I've deciphered the message: "Part of my brain is devoid of wrinkles, but I'm hoping no one notices."
The trick is to change all the t's to y's and crunch it through the Turing computer. Voila.
Yeah, it's a pretty advanced technique; not for everyone.
No problem. You're much better than some here. We've had real problems with @hanover and @frank
Quoting invizzy
Sure, the forum can have some rough edges, but the moderators do a good job of walking the line between permissiveness and over-restriction. It's a nice place.
No, please don't be more careful. Otherwise who will we have to be cranky with.
In the US, if you are a medical doctor, you would sign your name John Smith, M.D. Does anyone know what the M.D. equivalent designation is in Sweden?
Ha love it :)
In the news here in the US, we hear about all the troubles the Russian military is having in Ukraine. We hear about the difficulties with Russian military mobilization and conscription. But I also read that the war is still popular among Russians. That is surprising. How do things look from where you are?
There is a lot of support for the war in Russia, with varying levels of intensity and resignation. A lot of Russians who don't know better - - but who should, I would think - - seriously think the boys are defending the motherland. It's disastrous for Russian-Ukrainian relations and there are too few prominent voices speaking up against it, though there are a few.
Many Russians hate the whole thing, but there's no space for a real conversation.
This could easily be rewritten to accurately describe the situation in the US during the Vietnam and Iraq Wars.
I'm not saying that bombing people far away is better, but I think it's a significant moral element.
It's only getting worse. How can this ever be rectified? Even amongst Ukrainians I imagine there is division. Or are pro-Russian Ukrainians not even Ukrainian any more, but simply Russian? And those who do not want to choose a side?
:up:
:lol:
Why can't the republicans and democrats just sit down together and settle this like good Americans?
Why can't the Catholics and Protestants sit down and settle it like good Christians?
Why can't the Jews and Arabs just merge their gods into Yawallah or Allahweh? and start a new nation called Ispalestine or Palreal?
How big could this list get?
Nice. Drawn yourself?
Guilty as charged. :naughty:
Psychics deals with the concepts of time and constructs of reality and the physical world we live in as a whole. Chemistry just re-arranges junk of little mystery and unfortunately can be used for little but esoteric metaphors that may make a lone professor on break chuckle some.
Oh right
I think you may have forgotten the minor issue of human health, which in the modern era is largely dependent on the pharmaceutical industry.
Where are all the psychic posts you reference?
Many think, wrongly, that physics and ontology are the same thing. Chemistry is harder to mistake for metaphysics.
It's no fair! Hanover is a better poet, cartoonist, and just better fish than me!!
I bet this cartoon will even be funnier than anything I ever did.
Stop being a jelly-fish.
<
Nice. You forgot your cowboy hat and my sunglasses though. Let's keep this consistent. :up:
I actually like that it's so unprofessional and poorly presented it's barely legible. Adds that frisson of Hanoverian authenticity
:lol: Cool they allow you to bring your cat to the office. :up:
Good point. My awareness of time has deteriorated since I immersed myself in the world of cartoon comedy. Perhaps someday when someone is dumb enough to offer me employment this might matter.
Send me your resume. My law firm has been looking for a time disoriented cartoonist for some time, but none have made it past the criminal background check yet.
:grin:
Quoting Hanover
So close yet so far... :cry:
I really think TPF can reach new levels of popularity (though at what price? that's for the individual user to ask...) with these cartoons. You're a really good drawer and the content is good too. I really thought you copy-pasted that from a large website.
Look what they can do for other communities: https://xkcd.com/
As you can see, they drive points home sometimes more effectively (and quickly!) then factual explanations. Humor bypassing ingrained blocks/shut down triggers, etc.. very fascinating. I was writing a blog about the same but a mental block got triggered so I stopped..
Why do I see a cartoon in this line?
Very kind of you to say so. I'm barely a dilittante drawer but we have some accomplished artists, e.g. check out @praxis and others here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/89/get-creative
I agree. I had hardly drawn a cartoon about anything since I was a kid but I wanted to make the point from another thread that claims about "a fully developed morality" independent of social context were nonsensical. And this seemed the most succinct way to do it.
Ahem.
Perhaps an oversight, but I too am quite the drawer, if I should say so myself. You can check out some of my work by perusing this site.
There once was a small school of buffoons
who swam in their river of cartoons
who whined and complained
Hanover they blamed
For their untimely met death from harpoons.
I present thee a jelly called Hanny
Who sits everyday on his fanny
But try as he might
Can't draw for his life
And writes limericks so bad it's uncanny
Oh well, looks like we all have to wait another few years for any respite.
Thank goodness in Scotland, we at least have an SNP buffer.
Just getting my entry in early for any 'worse joke ever on TPF,' competition.
:grin:
Quoting Tom Storm
Quoting universeness
:rofl: :lol: :rofl:
I don't get it. Is his penis red? Is his nose red and the fact that he has his pants down irrelevant? Maybe his physique reminds her of Rudolph Nureyev. What's with her hair? It seems like they're in a sexual situation, but they're just standing there looking at each other while she comments. She looks disappointed. Perhaps he feels inadequate.
Sorry, I'm working on explicating poems in another thread.
As I lay awake late at night
Crossed legged on the floor
Staring down between the space between my knees
Where the pool of vomit lies
Sorting through the pieces consumed earlier
Not yet ready to take the towel and bleach to mop it away
I see colors and shades I don't remember tasting earlier
Things I took in me without having noticed
My body rejecting then instinctively as they do not belong
The revolting smell bringing waves of more to inspect
A butterfly lands right in the middle
Its legs getting stuck as it tries to escape
Bile and mucous comes splashing on top it
It's delicate hues bleed into the waste
It flutters about and floats to the ceiling
Dusting the room in a beautiful mess.
Yep, on the fridge that goes. A keeper.
Hanover - 1, @Baden - 0.
Too many verses missing!
You forgot the one about your beloved pet dog/cat, who you embrace regularly, who enters the scene and consumes the feast you have lovingly regurgitated for it (butterfly as well). Many species feed their young using this method.
Then there is the verse about your vomiting dog/cat as part of you regurgitated feast disagreed with it (probably the butterfly!), then the alternative cat/dog consumes that kind regurgitation.
Then there is the verse where the alternate cat/dog poops out the remains of your original feast in your garden and its very irresponsible owner does not properly dispose of the poop.
The poop biodegrades over time and worms consume that material and carry some of it to your vegetable patch.
Then there is the verse about how some of the material deposited by the worms in your veg patch, is consumed by your growing veg as nutrients.
Then there is the verse about you, your pregnant wife and your baby in her womb consuming some of the veg. Don't forget the bit where you bite down on a bit of carrot and are strangely reminded of the time you vomited on your own legs.
Then there is the final verse about your child, now a teenager, asking you about the strange taste he/she experienced in her/his mouth, one night in a dream. 'It was like kebab meat mixed with black forest gateau dad, some crazy combo you might do if you were smashed out your skull on cheap whiskey and then threw up all over your own legs, as you sat on the floor cross legged and unable to sleep!'
Her/his story invoked a memory, which made you feel sick, so you sat on the floor cross legged and ......
The story title?
The circle
You know, it’s like…
[i]Rudolph, with your dick so bright
Won't you “guide my sleigh” tonight?[/i]
I agree. The hair straight up in the air makes no sense, nor does their disparate level of dress. Perhaps the artist's original idea was to have her lying down (thus the tousled about hair), with him dropping trow and standing above her, but that was modified as too graphic. It was at that moment of anticipated penetration that she then expressed understandable alarm at the dermatological condition affecting his genitals, at which time she tried to add levity to the situation by comparing Rudolph's nose to what was likely ecchymosis riddled half-wood, but I speculate as to that detail.
The guy works one day a year. Best job ever.
Love it. :joke:
Come on, man.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Come on, man.
Quoting Hanover
:roll:
Quoting Cuthbert
:scream:
My reaction to this was to get out of my car and puke all over the hard shoulder. That may have just been coincidence but...
Well done, praxis. :up:
Indeed.
[i]All of the other reindeer
Used to laugh and call they/them/her/him/zie/zir names
They never let poor Rudolph
Join in any reindeer games[/i]
:lol:
Funny enough, neither my partner nor my sister understood my last cartoon which I also thought totally obvious and involved a play on words between 'verb' and 'burp'. My partner was the one driving today by the way and we were going to see my sister when I had to get her to stop the car so I could get out and puke. I really want to make a grammar based cartoon out of that but I can't find a part of speech that sounds like "puke". If you can solve this conundrum for me my faith in your wisdom will be restored. :pray:
Past pukiciple.
I've got one, but not for puke, but an other bodily function, so still in line with my middle school sense of humor:
An erection interjection: Much like the word "wowser!", it expresses overwhelming interest, but instead of by word, through trouser bulge.
At the linguistics convention this joke will kill.
It was not Betty's projectile vomiting that was most disturbing, but it was Johnny's intense gaze of the scene, punctuated by his erection interjection.
But not punctured by his erection injection?
Quoting Hanover
The babblings of a madman.
Here's one for you:
Fair enough!
C minus.
What I might suggest in terms of working on your creativity is that you move from your mockery theme to the bodily function theme. I have noticed that for some reason no fish has yet had to defecate. I don't understand how that can be.
Summarizing: Every cartoon fish should be about me. Every fish cartoon should be about poo.
:chin:
Well done!
NYT Obituary
Ian Hamilton in 2008. He said "Am I proud? You bet I'm proud!"
The guy was a lawyer, by the way.
Hanover's day:
1) Wake up.
2) Find reasons to give Baden's comics a C-minus.
3) Watch porn.
4) Fire someone who's better at lawyering than him.
5) Watch porn.
6) Delegate all work responsibilities to minions who don't want to get fired.
7) Etc.
His mum is the packet of chips/crisps. As if you didn't know that.
On behalf of all Scots lovers of the stone of destiny, I humbly thank you.
Having said that, I have to admit that as a person who rejects woo woo, I would grind that stupid stone into sand and spread it on a beach somewhere.
Jacob's Pillow! Hah! Total BS. A fictitious story about a fictitious character who laid his fictitious head on a fictitious stone, which ended up in Scotland/England/Scotland.
There are some other stories about that piece of unimportant rock you might already know but if not, might find interesting.
1. The stone broke when Iain and his pals removed it in 1950. They had it repaired by a Glasgow
Stonemason, Robert Gray, who refixed the bit that broke off, using a metal rod, but he put a message on paper, hidden in the rod (supposedly).
2. The stone was given to Arbroath Abbey. But exactly how the English got it back, remains 'foggy.'
3. Robert Gray was supposed to be a 'Mason' and possibly connected to the Knghts Templar.
They told him to make copies of the stone, which he did, and it was one of them that was returned to England. So which stone is the real stone?
Personally, I couldn't care less as the whole history of that stone is based on BS woo woo as are all stories related to similar Christian relics.
HOWEVER! I still fully agree with your feelings that Iain and his pals did a good job in shoving the memory of Edward I's action into the dog shit his historical face belongs in.
This is one ugly stone/copy/real one!
I like the earlier place that they used in Scotland for scumbag kings:
Dunadd - in the footsteps of kings
Early kings of Dalriada up to kings of Alba such as Kenneth McAlpin etc were supposed to have been crowned here. Possibly Robert the Bruce as well.
I would call these triubhas or trews.
The tartan truis or trousers date back to 1538 as a style of woven tartan cloth trousers as a garment preferably used during the Highland winter where the kilt would be impractical in such cold weather. The word is triubhas in Scottish Gaelic. Truis or trews are anglicised spellings meaning trousers.
Trews or troosers is so much more melodic that the much more posh trousers.
A famous song which agrees is of course:
I was going to pick the more famous Andy Stewart rendition, but I just couldn't resist the wee mad guy above:
:rofl: A wee bite o haggis and a wee dram and you will feel fully Scottish and proud again.
Instead of coveting that 'Earthling,' badge all the time, not that I don't favour the Earthling badge myself.
And Spanish haggis is crap.
I hope you don't suffer from alcoholism before I type this but If I was standing next to you in Spain right now with a glass of single malt in my hand, I would wave it under your nose, something like:
Its Scottish tradition pal!
Tell the truth boy! I bet this happens to you regularly:
You looking to get malkied?
Come ahead ya wee plook! We arra peeepel! Gallagate mad squad rools!
Oh Sorry! Just had a shug rather than a hugh moment there!
I'll have you know I was in Scotland just a couple of months ago, where I patronized several authentic Stockbridge wine bars.
Aye well, a wis in Scotland afore ye, never take the high road pal!
Anywises! Hope ye hud a gid time when yi came hame fur a wee while!
Should've said Jockbox, obviously.
Aye I did.
Don't you dare start picturing ma jockbox mate, we have never even sipped a dram the gither.
See how being away too long can affect you.
I I did?
Its Aye ah did ya diddy!