:flower: It spoke to your authenticity. Something that is in short supply in our current reality. That and common sense, it's not so common any more.
:flower:
Some people will just never let Black Tambourine be what they were, which was just a good band. Anyways, I will actually be taking off in so far that no one wants to chat it up about David Foster Wallace. 'Til whenever, I guess!
I liked @S (most of the time) and miss him but he kind of chose to give us all the finger in the end. Which is fair enough but not exactly a recipe for reconciliation.
I don't know. Maybe it's just me and a certain lack of trust that I have in the world, but I quite often get the feeling like kind of a lot of people just don't care if I end up somehow dead. What I've tried to explain to other people about this is that, even if they don't care and I know it, I do. It's nothing to do with anyone in this forum, it's just of a certain lack of exit strategy that I've have found myself with in certain dancehalls and activist circles. Mostly, I'm just talking to people who aren't even really here.
Anyways, apologies for my general madness. Carry on, I guess. 'Til whenever!
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 25, 2021 at 01:00#5414540 likes
Reply to thewonder
I am listening. Don't let the feeling of ambiguity give you sea legs. Grab a cold one and take a seat. The regulars will come by and entertain you if you let us. :flower:
There are no connotations to the following statements outside of the social circles in which I am attempting to destroy.
Before I leave, I should like to point out as to how much I care about the point I just made about the Sonic Youth albums, Daydream Nation and Sister. That any hipster, and there are many who do, considers for the latter to be a better album is the aesthetic equivalent of a crime against humanity. I do expect for this to be somehow rectified.
Anyways, I'll be taking off. So long, everyone! I may chat it up here and there, but will, for the most part, just be taking off. I'll see or hear from any of you when or if ever. 'Til then!
I liked S (most of the time) and miss him but he kind of chose to give us all the finger in the end. Which is fair enough but not exactly a recipe for reconciliation.
Re: Unbanning members
I think that has been done before, hasn't it ?
As to reconciliation, it's been a while since that episode, even prisoners are given a second chance.
Has S even asked to return here ?
Perhaps a probationary period ?
No bribes required...
We've banned hundreds of members and maybe one was unbanned. You can conclude from that that it takes something exceptional, maybe an immediate email of explanation concerning their behaviour combined with an apology, combined with an ackowledgement from us that we might have misinterpreted them etc. None of this applies to S.
maybe an immediate email of explanation concerning their behaviour combined with an apology, combined with an ackowledgement from us that we might have misinterpreted them etc. None of this applies to S.
OK. Understood.
So, no pardon or parole then...not even after a necessary period of reflection, reconsideration and change of attitude or past behaviour.
Ah well.
None of that applies in this case either to my knowledge. It's all hypothetical. But, generally speaking, we can't unban a poster under circumstances that would make it unfair not to unban hundreds of others. We have to be consistent.
Anyway, if anyone thought they were unfairly treated, or, for whatever reason, felt they deserved to get themselves unbanned, my suggestion would be to contact @jamalrob directly. If he thought the case had merit, he'd likely bring it up in the mod forum for consideration. Less useful to ask me. I'm not going to unban anyone unless I personally made a mistake in banning them.
if anyone thought they were unfairly treated, or, for whatever reason, felt they deserved to get themselves unbanned, my suggestion would be to contact jamalrob directly. If he thought the case had merit, he'd likely bring it up in the mod forum for consideration.
That makes sense. To consider on a case-by-case basis. Good to know.
In the event I ever swear at the mods - tell y'all to fuck off - and get banned.
Best keep polishing my :halo: and send flowers :flower: and lots of love :hearts:
Sorry no money or cheque in the post.
Money Can't Buy Me Love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srwxJUXPHvE
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 25, 2021 at 13:11#5417180 likes
That's to say, five grand will do it for me. :kiss:
Hmmm... let me see... I have the first $10.00 and a neighbors Rooster that is up before me and I AM the one who hangs the sun in Arizona.
Cocky little bird should be good eatin' :100:
Deal?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 25, 2021 at 13:16#5417200 likes
There are no connotations to the following statements outside of the social circles in which I am attempting to destroy.
Are the social circles you are trying to "destroy" yours alone? Maybe passing through to another level rather than destroy the ones that no longer serve you?
I don't know as I am looking at it from here.
I do know one of my most fundemental beliefs is to not destroy in leaving, what we have built in coming together.
Thoughts?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 25, 2021 at 13:20#5417210 likes
Tough question, because I almost don't listen to popular music except for some stuff my daughter likes. So the first 2 are ones I listen to with her, so I like it because it's a shared thing, and the last one is more something I like.
Hmmm... let me see... I have the first $10.00 and a neighbors Rooster that is up before me and I AM the one who hangs the sun in Arizona.
Cocky little bird should be good eatin' :100:
I'm out in the country now and I actually love hearing the roosters crow at daybreak, which apparently is every 30 minutes or so all day long, but what's a bird supposed to know?
Oh, and you don't eat roosters. That's not a thing.
Reply to Benkei You listen to dance music with some sort of Broadway dance routine going on with men in sailor suits and you condemn hippy music as shit?
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
I suppose that you're right. To leave them without their cult pathology, order, and forms of control then. I'm just rambling on the internet of people who don't even read this. You are right, though. I should leave them well, too.
Having finally said my peace of the many imaginary parties in my mind, I will say that all is well now. I do plan on leaving, though, as I kind of have a problem with compulsive internet use. As before, apologies for whatever. Aside from the one thread that I have going, I'll be leaving to concentrate on my creative pursuits as well as to continue to get my life and mind back together. It's been fun. 'Til we meet again!
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 25, 2021 at 20:10#5418830 likes
Reply to Hanover
I can rest assure you that, things as they stand now, I am willing to let bygones and bygones and just kind of move on with my life now. Aside from the occasional dig in my many half-baked attempts to foster a kind of common wisdom, I just don't have too much else to say about any of this. It is always best not to leave any community as a chaotic clusterfuck that could result in either its general destruction or that of the world outside of it, and, so, do mean what I have said in that I have said my peace of them.
So this guy wrote a book how to sue governments to force them to adhere to the climate change goals by using the law against them. It's been successful in the Netherlands, they won a court case except for a shitty center-right government that doesn't do enough even though the judge ordered them to meet the promised targets.
Now their next step is to try to force Shell to do more. That will be an interesting case too, because Shell never committed to CO2 goals like many countries did by signing treaties.
What do you think about the idea and how successful do you think can it be? What if governments still don't do enough?
Not a new thread because I didn't read the book...
Wanted to post this elsewhere, but the binmen beat me to it.
Yup. This is the new racism. By and large it matters little what @Zenny or @unenlightened say about anything or anyone. Our prejudices probably hurt us more than they hurt anyone else. It is the prejudices of people with power that damage those they are prejudiced against - judges, insurance brokers, Generals, CEOs clinical psychologists, policemen, prison guards, or whatever.
But now we have the spectacle of folks claiming victimhood and calling racism against powerless protesters against the prejudice of the powerful. It's such complete bollocks one really cannot find a purchase to mount any kind of rebuttal. It's a kindergarten game of "I know you are, but what am I?"
@unenlightened Yep. I see it too often In the media now. And by so called educated people. Some Moderators and members seem to be in this club.
Thr first time I heard white people say black people can't be racist i thought that was crazy double standards and the excuses and ideological justification is flat out racism.
I now many people of color (of which I am one) agree with me. And it's so ironic that these intellectuals who are white criticise people like me,when I'm defending racism against white people as being wrong.
The great thing is on the ground away from ivory towers and the media all colors races and religions mix here,and I don't feel any racism by people,police,etc.
I was referring to your book recommendation - Revolution Justified, and in particular the blurb. I've said much the same at least a sock full of times!
"Military reports warn that impending energy problems will endanger Western society and threaten to weaken ties between states and their citizens, undermining the very foundations of democracy and the rule of law. Energy issues will also set the stage for more aggressive geopolitics and will substantially destroy the ecosystem services on which society is wholly dependent. These are but a few of the impacts that the double energy problem of climate change and oil decline have in store for us."
So this guy wrote a book how to sue governments to force them to adhere to the climate change goals by using the law against them
First off, I'm not sure what a "goal" is unless it's a law that requires that businesses adhere to certain climate change regulations. Generally, a private citizen can't bring a claim against the government for not enforcing its laws, like if I tried to sue the local DA for not charging someone with a crime. The typical solution to that is to protest and bring your complaints to the streets. However, if the law specifically provides for a citizen to bring a claim for non-enforcement of a regulation, then the citizen could. For example, https://www.epa.gov/ogc/notices-intent-sue-us-environmental-protection-agency-epa
There are some other limited instances where you can file for mandamus (a court order requiring a government administrator to perform it's duty), but I would think you have to be the actual aggrieved party suffering a specific individualized harm in order to have standing, otherwise, your claim would be derivative, attempting to save society in general, which is generally not permitted.
All of this is to say, I don't think the reason that climate change laws have not been enforced through lawsuits against the government is because they (just like both of us) haven't read the book this guy wrote, but because there's no mechanism to do that.
Maybe I'm wrong though. I'll wait to hear what others think.
Reply to Hanover In the Netherlands it was the UN climate treaties that set the goals for the reduction and the obligation on governments to protect the life and well-being of its citizens as laid down in the European Human Rights Charter. The combination of the two and the constitutional duty of the courts to apply treaty terms directly in the Dutch legal order lead to the State being sued. It was successful in Germany too. I think it depends largely on how treaty law works into the national legal order.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 26, 2021 at 14:12#5423730 likes
"recognise the need to reduce the global level of annual GHG emissions to 25-30 Gt of carbon dioxide equivalent or lower by 2030 to put the world on track to limit global warming to 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels"
and,
"commit to submitting long-term strategies (LTSs) that set out concrete pathways to net zero GHG emissions by 2050 as soon as possible."
However they consider:
"energy efficiency as “the first fuel” to emissions reduction"
Your book also claims to:
"explain why neither the market mechanism nor today’s political model are capable of initiating an energy revolution to solve these issues."
..again implying reductions in human welfare, to reduce carbon emissions. I don't believe that's necessary, or viable long term.
Elsewhere I have suggested it is possible to drill close to magma pockets in the earth's crust, feed pipes through the hole, and pump water through very hot rocks (700'C) to produce superheated steam, to drive turbines, to produce limitless amounts of clean electricity.
Electrical energy could be converted into hydrogen by electrolysis, and either piped as a gas, or compressed into a liquid fuel, with 2.5 times the energy content of petroleum per tonne, shipped around the world in tanker ships. This then could be used in internal combustion engines, and power stations - with minimal modifications. The combination of hydrogen fuel cells and electric jet engine - would allow us to fly as much as we wish with no carbon footprint.
This source of energy is so vast, we could in addition extract carbon from the atmosphere, desalinate water to irrigate land, and recycle all our waste - again, at no carbon cost. That so, we could have a prosperous sustainable future. No need to pay more, have less, tax this and stop that.
My question is, how can I get anyone to listen to me? I write about it on this forum until I'm sick of hearing myself banging on, particularly as - between the green commies and the climate deniers, I might as well be talking to myself. What to do? Advise please.
failing infrastructure like in Texas this winter? Maybe take Ted's example to heart and move somewhere where you don't need gas.
It was Russian hackers. But even if got an electric car, it's not like the power plant runs on something other than oil and coal, not to mention lithium battery production pollutants.
@Zenny was banned for, according to Biden, "refusing moderation by repeatedly posting off-topic posts in the religion thread." What really happened is that 180 Proof racialized a previously non-racial discussion with a viciously anti-white diatribe. I called him out on it. None of the moderators spoke up, although it's clear they never would have allowed that kind rant for any other racial or ethnic group. Then Biden tried to put a squash on the issue. Zenny was not respectful. Now he's gone.
I just went through Zenny's relevant posts. He was pretty pugnacious and he got in a back and forth with more than one moderator. It's clear he pissed a bunch of people off, but I saw nothing that went over the line. Unless I'm missing something, he did nothing for which he deserved banning. I think if he had been toeing the party line instead of challenging it, he would still be a member of the forum.
In the hopes that no one will think about this forever, I will tell you of my delusions of grandeur.
There can be no substantial change within the world until there is a cultural paradigm shift wherein everyone is let to cultivate an authentic way of life. The Situationist International already liberated the world from the cult pathology of the fine arts. That more or less leaves only the music industry, literary world, and film industry.
Such an initiative within the literary world culminated within Infinite Jest, thereby making David Foster Wallace the Kirk to my Mark Vonnegut, leading to my discovery of the anonymous text, Manifesto, creation of my experimental poetry, and eventual ramblings here. The liberation from the cult pathology of intellectual class, however, will have to occur after other cultural paradigm shifts.
What Wallace's work also facilitated was the production of the films of Richard Linklater, what both got me into cinéma and led to my eventual realization that the film industry will just eventually inculcate itself out of inculcating itself by the pure virtue of that people just generally prefer not to be in any form of cult whatsoever.
I am who thought it to have discovered Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation through the Library of Congress, which is how any number of independent musicians tend to pay kind of a lot of attention to me. What I thought that I could have done was to have taken Thurston Moore up on his idea to have combined a generalized drug peace, independent culture, and common wisdom with a hip enough aesthetic to catch on as a Pop culture phenomenon. As whomever it is that was out there that was aware of these things had foreseen what could be done and, at least, thought, mistakenly, that they should be in opposition to this happening, there was just already too much out there to make it so that I could do that.
What, from all of this, such ideas have culminated in so far are the recent set of ramblings of mine.
In order to liberate the music industry from its many cult pathologies, the independent music industry is going to have to drop well enough out of the music industry at large well enough so as to find enough listeners to effectively dissolve the greater music industry. It's kind of a paradox to where not competing with the greater music industry is how to ultimately quote unquote win. If they ever don't want to have the predicament of being attempted to be brought into a hypercompetitive situation with the greater music industry, meaning if they don't want to have concern themselves with things like hostile takeovers, they, first, need to drop out, but, ultimately, just do kind of need to win, which is to say, effectively dissolve it.
Facilitating the success of the independent music industry, as absurd as it may sound, is kind of the maximal good that most people can do for the world now, at least, in terms of the liberation from the cult pathology of contemporary culture, what I have previously referred to as "the Postmodern condition". What I am suggesting is that an, in all ways, ethically run independent label becoming economically successful on bandcamp, thereby convincing independent musicians to utilize what ought to be the best website for them, is what can most effectively be done about this for the time being. That, or figuring out how to create a successful coffee shop venue that only brings in a limited amount of revenue from the occasional sale of beer. In so far that this venue is created, I think that they should exclusively sell merchandise of bands who have played there.
Anyways, not too much of this has too much to do with philosophy, though I have attempted to make all of it relatable. I just figured that I might as well fill you in on what goes on in my mind about all of this. As this is all that there was for me to do as such, there's no real reason for anyone to wonder about this for too long.
Being said, having finally liberated myself from the compulsive habit of accumulating and utilizing information, I will actually be leaving now. So long and all! Give the rest of the world my best regards!
A lot of posts in the religion topic were deleted, and personally, I thought the vicious anti-white diatribe by 180 was expressed in a way that I couldn't help enjoying. I doubt it will significantly impact the culture war.
Yes, a lot of posts were deleted, including some of mine. I have no objection to that. I think it was appropriate. But Zenny was banned. I'm sure you can see the difference.
You characterize it as anti-white and politically polarizing, which seems to suggest that there’s a racial component that’s being utilized by the ‘anti-black party’. I’ve heard enough offensive rants over the last four years by pundits of the opposing party to last a lifetime.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 27, 2021 at 14:51#5428660 likes
I am going to assume that you are making a statement seeing as there is a period at the end of your post.
May I be so bold as to ask for you to expand on your post? :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 27, 2021 at 17:48#5429230 likes
2/3 of the 35,000 annual gun deaths in the US are suicides.
The increase in suicide among those young people who got sidelined because of the COVID pandemic that could not see any purpose in living is absolutely heartbreaking. Many are young men...it is horrific to witness. :broken:
The increase in suicide among those young people who got sidelined because of the COVID pandemic that could not see any purpose in living is absolutely heartbreaking. Many are young men...it is horrific to witness. :broken:
As an antinatalist I can only applaud their courage.
The increase in suicide among those young people who got sidelined because of the COVID pandemic that could not see any purpose in living is absolutely heartbreaking.
Utter bullshit version of events. BTW, Zenny was given a warning by PM as it happens and responded with a cuss out. Anyway, just start a feedback thread in future. This is why stuff gets deleted because posters insist on putting it in the whole place. Totally unnecessary and creates pointless work for us. And then when we delete it, we're supposedly deplatforming and censoring people. Sorry, but just bugger off.
Yes, sorry you got deleted, but I deleted your posts because they were replies to an Amen post that began with a complaint about mods. Again, off-topic and came after a specific and reasonable request to keep things on-topic in the thread.
My sister in law explained to me how they told a lesbian she could no longer have fellowship at her church, which means no one is allowed to talk to her except to try to persuade her to repent for her sins. It's so fucking god damned sickingly stupid.
Just wanted to say that. Usually stupid is farther away from me than this, but I had to hear this over a hamburger in my backyard, where her stupid words wafted about, sullying the innocent ears of my goats. Her God is a piece of shit, but I deny her God is Jesus, white or black.
More like 4 months. No, 10 months. No, 2 years. No, a litte more than 2 years. No, a little more than a little more than 2 years. No, a little more than a little more than a little more than 2 years.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 28, 2021 at 13:31#5432710 likes
Reality is often ‘you can’t make this shit up’ hilarious, and you have a beautiful sense of humor.
It's crazy this thing we call "life" and I Thank you for your kind words :flower:
Our world could withstand a bit more kindness :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 28, 2021 at 13:39#5432780 likes
Name this song from the lyrics without help from the Internet.
"Picked up my bag I went lookin for a place to hide, when I saw old Carmen and the Devil standing side by side...'
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 28, 2021 at 14:13#5432880 likes
Not necessarily "Hell" but rather what ever it is YOU believe happens after you are successful at committing suicide.
I believe the fundemental idea that people who decide to "run" do it for one of two reasons. They are either "running" away from something or "running" to something. I am using the word "run" but it is in the spirit of fleeing to escape their immediate situation, which can be expressed in a multitude of ways, one of which is the taking of one's life, others escape with unhealthy eating, drinking to excess. If you are unclear let me know and I will try again to explain it another way.
Please correct me as my depth of knowledge about antinatalist as it could fit in a thimble and still have room.
These kids were most likely enduring a form of ' situational' depression rather than a lifetime choice. Suggesting that with a little more time, a little more faith that there are brighter days ahead that you and I KNOW because we have lived through equal or worse in our lives and have survived.
These are kids 13 years old plus and the majority of the males we lost to this pandemic were in Highschool and first year of college.
Many of these kids had lived their entire lives focusing on the success that sports programs offer into the professional leagues and in the blink of an eye, the star they had hitched their wagon of life to went dark and they did as well.
These kids were hopeless and I can see why they felt that way. It's painful to watch and to know that there are many more to come.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 28, 2021 at 14:18#5432900 likes
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff I'm not an antinatalist, I just like making fun of the theory. But from my point of view they'd be running into a grave I suppose. Or an oven. Depends on whether it's a burial or cremation really.
Well, so am I, but I don't pretend to be leaving the forum for attention. I guess we all have our ways of dealing with our troubledness. I thought a little ribbing would bring levity.
As the late Everett Dirksen (representative from Illinois, liberal Republican) allegedly said, "A billion here, a billion there. Before long you're talking about real money."
He also said he felt like he was between the dog and the fire plug.
Forum dapartphilia is a troubling disorder where people so enjoy leaving a forum yet cannot because once they leave, they can't satisfy their urge to leave again because, well, they're gone. What happens is that they keep saying they're leaving but won't. In pre-internet days (the genteel ante--web era, when ladies wore garters and men top hats) it was characterized by people standing by the door with their keys jangling, but they'd never fucking go home.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 29, 2021 at 14:26#5437520 likes
Reply to Hanover I won't buy another new vehicle. I traded my 2018 Ram pick up to my wife for her 2002 sentra. The sentra doesn't talk to my phone, has no cameras, doesn't yell at me through the stereo, has no screens and is a manual transmission. I don't think it has ABS brakes. I love it. When it dies I am buying something even older. I might have to have it rebuilt, but I will have spent money on what I actually want and need, not some tech garbage that I hate.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff What about the people that are bored and curious about what is on the other side? Sometimes people get tired of eating the same sandwich so they get something new. Not every suicide is about running, sometimes it is a step forward into the unknown.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 30, 2021 at 15:31#5443120 likes
What about the people that are bored and curious about what is on the other side? Sometimes people get tired of eating the same sandwich so they get something new. Not every suicide is about running, sometimes it is a step forward into the unknown
While I appreciate the offer of your explanation, I might be amiss to not ask if this a belief of yours?
I'm more than willing to entertain the idea you presented and not take it as my own as Socrates taught us but, BUT I would like to suggest your explanation (theory) lands a bit on the absurd side from where I sit.
And please accept my apology for not having welcomed you to The Philosophy Forum sooner.
Welcome :flower:
I see you've got your fist out say your piece and get out
Yes I get the gist of it but it's alright
Sorry that you feel that way the only there is to say
Every silver lining's got a [name of song]
I postulate the theory of stepping forward into the unknown as an alternate, although much less frequent, explanation for a suicide. I have had two patients that did not fit the traditional depression/addiction/hopeless picture presented with suicide or those who present with suicidal thoughts. Both were intelligent, well spoken and well read individuals that were very contemplative regarding death and what lies beyond. They did not present as depressed in anyway and neither had addiction issues. Both successfully committed suicide, neither left notes which were suggestive of depression or seeking escape in any way, however the notes were more presenting of someone seeking answers. They were not related and did not know each other. The sandwich analogy may seem lighthearted, however, it seems fitting. A number of patients that I have worked with over the years have been very curious about what comes next, if anything, and present as wistfully looking forward to finding out in a passive way (meaning they will find out eventually so why rush into it?).
I have read thousands of pages on various religions and theories about what comes next. The best I have been able to determine is one of two options: A) the atheists are correct, death is the final end. In which case, life is generally pointless and "do what thou wilt" is just as valid as "do unto others". or B) Death is a transition to another path forward and ongoing development. Further specifics into this development would be purely theoretical as there is, to my knowledge, no validated means to confirm any of it.
The organized religions, unless slotted into one of the fore-mentioned categories, don't really hold up to careful scrutiny. Ultimately if you have faith in the religion, you need no outside validation.
Personally, I go with option B. It provides a much better foundation when attempting to explain oddities like deja-vu. Option B also does not violate any conservation of energy laws and is therefore more supported by physics than Option A. Option A does not provide any explanation for the animating force within us, attributing such to chemistry in poorly articulated explanations which are as equally untestable as the force they are trying to explain away, leaving us to faith yet again.
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 30, 2021 at 18:47#5443730 likes
I see you've got your fist out say your piece and get out
Yes I get the gist of it but it's alright
Sorry that you feel that way the only there is to say
Every silver lining's got a [name of song]
Touch of Gray :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 30, 2021 at 18:48#5443740 likes
Are you sure it's not say your "peace" and get out?
ArguingWAristotleTiffMay 31, 2021 at 14:17#5448100 likes
Reply to Book273 Your assertion that seemed absurd was backed up by your experience and that I respect. I also am impressed with your ability to follow the laws of privacy.
What you have presented has expanded my understanding, some of which might only be known through experience, I don't know but I am in pursuit of finding out.
As a side note and something you might enjoy:
My Mom who is now 78, was a fresh 18 year old working at a community clinic where everything used to be done.
She took a patient into a room and when it came time to listen to his heart he said my heart is on the right side. Mom said she just laughed it off not wanting to come across as rude and when she went to listen to his heart, he repeated that his heart is on the right side. She listened on the left as she was trained and she couldn't find it. She moved over to the right and just like he told her, his heart was on the right.
One of two lessons: 1) the patient knows their own body the best 2) believe that you are special enough in life to have the outliers fall into your world.
A suggested donation of $160-$500 will enroll you or someone you love in the “Adopt a Sister” program for 1 year. Your gift will help provide for the Sisters’ retirement needs, and in gratitude for your faith and friendship, your “adopted” Sister will pray for you each day for a year.
It does go to the retirement of the nuns, which (I suppose) arguably is noble enough (depending).
People, be reasonable. There is no point whatsoever in mocking the INvulnerable. They either have servants who screen TPF entries before they approach the site, or they have thick skins. Thickened skin is actually quite affordable for everyone, given time. Sure, many vulnerable people, aged 6 through 34, haven't developed it yet, but if they were beaten more often they would have. Compared to a good spanking, the slings and arrows of outrageous mockery would be nothing at all.
Reply to jorndoe How many minutes do the Salacious Sisters of Don Juan pray on my behalf, and what precisely do they pray for? They might spend hours a day calling on God to have me hanged, for all I know. Very religious people, even tired and retired nuns, can be quite severe in their moral judgements.
Ever thought that it was the animals; thrown upon the shore by the waves, could get back to the water, that ultimately learnt to walk on land?
Not if it is a human being you are referring to.
Humans seem to take the path of least resistance, which would have washed us back out to sea.
Now if the animals who were thrown could not make it back to the sea, then we have a reason for invention, to which man will theorize, plan, test and ultimately execute an idea.
That's where the story is left until she emerges, adds a touch of love and "it" is born.
Hence the term "Necessity is the Mother of invention".
Reply to Bitter Crank, no idea what they pray. :)
Maybe they could record them, so they could be replayed whenever some "otherworldly" goodwill would be needed?
Though mockery may be lacking in civility, it may not fester the receivers instability. Speaking of which, the Einstein topic was closed so there’s no place to ridicule @3017amen for chickening out of his “debate” with 180. Maybe we should attribute his even entertaining the possibility of debating 180 to the Dunning-Kruger effect and call it good.
Thanks! We're trying to work out the details as we speak. it may take a day or two. Certainly not interested in another politically lost election where the loser cries foul over the judge's rulings.
It should be a prize fight! But hey, if you're into ridicule for its own sake, knock yourself out :razz:
Anyway, I know it's the shoutbox, but I'll just lob a few lazy throws:
Justice is a weirdly pseudo-Christian concept as far as I can tell, so if we stop applying the concept to people, I don't know what will happen in our weirdly pseudo-Christian Western world.
Justice is a weirdly pseudo-Christian concept as far as I can tell, so if we stop applying the concept to people, I don't know what will happen in our weirdly pseudo-Christian Western world.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff I have only seen one patient with a right sided heart. Very cool. The initial ECG looked really bizarre (done on the left side) and an older doc took a look at it and said "This is a right sided heart. Do it again, but place the leads on the right side." Once that was done, normal looking ECG. Great learning experience though. And yep, totally agree, if the patient says "this isn't right" Keep looking, they know themselves better than I ever will.
Reply to Noble DustReply to frank The notion of justice goes at least as far back to the ancient Greeks, who spoke of dik?, which can be found in Plato, Homer, and Hesiod. But there was a difference in that dik? referred less to some normative standard than a description of how things are, in terms of orientation or 'disposition'. So everything has its own dik? such that - to quote Meiksins Wood - the dik? of a dog is to fawn on its master and the serf does best when his dik? is to fear his lord. Christianity - which perverts everything - gave this a messianic twist such that justice is not something 'naturalistic' but is bound up with judgement that is rendered upon the world from an outside vantage point.
Interesting. Is there literature that suggests that Christianity specifically gave a messianic twist to this specific Greek concept of dik?? What about "justice" as found in ancient Judaism and any potential influence on Christianity? I don't have any answers, but I've been reading a lot on early Christianity recently, so this is at least tangential for me.
Is there literature that suggests that Christianity specifically gave a messianic twist to this specific Greek concept of dik??
I feel like I read this in Agamben somewhere, but I couldn't tell you where exactly. Wood's Citizens to Lords has some passages on how Aquinas transforms Aristotle's notion of dik?, which might be of interest.
The notion of justice goes at least as far back to the ancient Greeks, who spoke of dik?, which can be found in Plato, Homer, and Hesiod.
The Old Testament is a book about divine justice, dating back to 1450 BCE. The ancient Greeks, dating back to 700 BCE. I'd think the concept of justice would date back before it was written down, so it's probably a concept intertwined with very early evolution of human reason.Quoting StreetlightX
Christianity - which perverts everything - gave this a messianic twist such that justice is not something 'naturalistic' but is bound up with judgement that is rendered upon the world from an outside vantage point.
I don't follow how you link this to Christianity. The OT literally begins (Genesis 1:1) by positing an external creator who then goes on to pass judgment on mankind.
The messianic twist of Christianity becomes necessary to absolve mankind of its original sin, which arose from Adam and Eve's violation of the divine command not to eat from the Garden of Eden. That is, the sin occurred thousands of years prior to Jesus appearing on the scene and it was not a naturalistic sin, but a violation of a specific external command.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 04, 2021 at 13:07#5464880 likes
We need a book about all things in life "divine"! @Hanover wants divine justice
I want divine chocolate.
Anyone else wish something "divine"?
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 04, 2021 at 13:32#5464990 likes
I've installed an upgrade in me:
If I encounter a topic, subject, even a word that doesn't make sense or I am unfamiliar with AND it is coming from someone younger than me?
Before I go any further, I ask for a definition or the new usage of the term, mirror back what I think they are trying to say AND then I might venture into asserting a possible position.
I installed this upgrade as a result of my asking what "Tanacon" was as there was a show about something that happened at Tanacon and before the young person could answer me, a person my age asked if that is a convention of trans people?
I cringed for my whole generation who is looking to understand some things that we were not raised with or educated about.
It's no different than Doctors of Medicine who were educated before the year 2000 that have no formal education on the endocannabinoid system that is found in humans, dogs, horses and the receptors that can be utilized to treat pain.
It's not anyone's fault that one person doesn't know what the other might but we really need to give others a chance to explain or expound upon it before guessing or worse assuming we know it.
Quick assumptions have proven in the past to shut down future communications. Don't fall victim to thinking you know all there is to know.
Remain open my friends :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 04, 2021 at 14:01#5465070 likes
Emptied the piggy bank we use for a getaway fund and we have $400.
So the question is what coins we should invest in via crypto currency.
I say we hold $100 @ 12% interest on 90 day lock.
Then take another $100 breaking it down 4 ways and each choose their own coin for their $25, getting the fun competitive nature going through the family. The final $200 is yet to be determined.
Algorand and Polka dot are my go-to. One indian holds Ethereum and Cardano and the other is spread across many and this will be NicK's first time in.
Looking forward to seeing what we can do :starstruck:
So, now the question is what kind of getaway can we afford?
Next door? Hawaii? Australia? Local KOA?
Airbnb on Pacific Beach?
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 04, 2021 at 14:09#5465090 likes
Dude, I am sorry but I just cannot find it within my perverted mind to even think about clicking the link you posted. :rofl:
It's been a long week :fire:
The Old Testament is a book about divine justice, dating back to 1450 BCE.
The OT is a series of books, and I'm genuinely curious what you mean when you say they are dated back that far - in what form? As far as I know this is hotly contested territory, unless you take it for granted that Moses wrote the books, which I'm pretty sure no one takes seriously! Open to being shown otherwise, but this claim can't be made straightforwardly like that. Espeically when it comes to a concept of justice, for which every genealogy I know begins with the Greeks.
Reply to Hanover OK did some digging because this kinda shit is my jam, and in the OT the words at play are probably variations of mishpat and tzedakah which correspond roughly to a sense of juridical justice and existential righteousness. Hebrew is largely its own thing from Indo-European - the root of dik? - so we're talking two largely independent paths of concept formation circling around similar but variegated concepts. The reason all the genealogies of justice begin with the Greeks is literally because the modern day word and concept primarily take the Indo-European word as its base. I have no idea in what way the Hebrew concepts cross-over and vice versa or in what fashion each influenced the other, if at all, and there doesn't seem to be much on it. Maybe it's one of those obscure things no one has looked into much. Anyway, that's about as deep in this rabbit hole I'll crawl for now.
The oldest portions of the Old Testament were likely written around 700 BCE at the latest, give or take a century. They were certainly not written before 1000 BCE.
I've been meaning to read up on concepts of Justice in Judaism, both historically and how it is perceived today, particularly by modern left wing Jews, since it seems uniquely relevant today, but I've been leaving it on the backburner.
I've been meaning to read up on concepts of Justice in Judaism, both historically and how it is perceived today, particularly by modern left wing Jews, since it seems uniquely relevant today, but I've been leaving it on the backburner.
Here you go: https://resources.finalsite.net › ...PDF
JEWISH VIEW OF JUSTICE – STUDY NOTES FOR JUNE 2, 2020 FROM ...
For left wing Jewish views, take a look at the Democratic Party platform.
There are two texts that need to be considered when discussing divine justice in the Hebrew Bible, Job and Ecclesiastes. Both question God's justice.
Koheleth notes that the wicked prosper and the righteous perish (7:15). The righteous get what the wicked deserve and the wicked what the righteous deserve (8:14). But the fate of both is the same in death (9:2)
Job was righteous and blameless, and yet God is complicit in Job's suffering. When Job confronts God demanding God defend himself God does not tell him the truth about his wager with the adversary and does not claim to have acted justly or give any reason why Job had to suffer.
"I call aloud, but there is no justice."[19: 7 ]
"Here is my signature! Let the Almighty answer me! [31: 35 ]
Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind. Who is this that darkens counsel
without knowledge?... Where were you when I laid the foundations of the
earth? ... when the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for
joy? [38: 1-2, 4, 7]
Reply to Hanover Left wing Jews are not liberals and therefore aren't liberal Jews, and being to the left of liberals is not "consistent with the democratic party", which often seems to me to be just barely liberal.
Got my Chinese blood tattoo. I am saved from the Wuhan flu. On the other hand, Chairman of Commienism, Xi Ping Pong, will forever know my location, thoughts, and alcohol level. :confused:
But God wiped out all living things except for two or seven pair (the story is not consistent on this point) of every living thing and Noah, his wife and children.
Left wing Jews are not liberals and therefore aren't liberal Jews, and being to the left of liberals is not "consistent with the democratic party", which often seems to me to be just barely liberal.
So when you say left wing Jews, you're referencing Marxists and Marx himself?
I was just thinking of liberal Jews, using the term left wing the way it's commonly used today in the US. They do tend to be passionately Democratic.
But God wiped out all living things except for two or seven pair (the story is not consistent on this point) of every living thing and Noah, his wife and children.
Sure, maybe it was overkill, but that is one explanation (among many) given for its necessity. The Book of Enoch isn't in the OT canon but there are Genesis references to it. Pick and choose as you like I guess.
And yeah, there are 2 inconsistent accounts of the flood because the OT is a patchwork of at least 4 different books sewn together by an editor. https://allthatsinteresting.com/who-wrote-the-bible
It's really fascinating (not being sarcastic here) to read the explanations provided by theologians as to why these inconsistencies exist as opposed to simply admitting they are different accounts slapped together.
And yeah, there are 2 inconsistent accounts of the flood because the OT is a patchwork of at least 4 different books sewn together by an editor.
Richard Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible" discusses this in detail, but covers only the Hebrew Bible. Although Stockton does not cite sources for his article, I suspect that this is one he relied on.
It's really fascinating (not being sarcastic here) to read the explanations provided by theologians as to why these inconsistencies exist as opposed to simply admitting they are different accounts slapped together.
To admit it would be to admit that this is all human, all too human.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 05, 2021 at 14:46#5468310 likes
And yeah, there are 2 inconsistent accounts of the flood because the OT is a patchwork of at least 4 different books sewn together by an editor.
I'm not going to suggest that I know anything about any specific religion or their God's reasoning behind their interpretation of history because it really doesn't matter to me.
Believe, don't believe, don't know, am willing to live my life like or not; what I want to know is when and how science fits in to the story now.
I am going aways back to listening to a radio show after the Fukushima disaster and how it was the perfect storm. I remember the person speaking harkened back to the days when "God" and his believers were the ones who were looked to for explanations of the unexplainable but now we have science. He said that the parting of the sea was likely a Tsunami and that is what caused the seeming of a part forming but only for a period of time before it would have come back with dramatic force.
Like I said, I don't know anything much about either science or other people's "God's" but I do find a bit of George Carlins' worshipping the sun in my belief only one step further in that I keep faith in Mother Nature. I am still amazed that when something bad happens people are quick to blame God when if you look closer it was likely Mother Nature acting out again.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 05, 2021 at 14:58#5468360 likes
108* f as a high today. :fire:
Thinking about filling up the gas cans to run the generator in the event of a power outage either caused by nature or cryptolocked, with NicK's health we can not go without AC.
@Hanover When Atlanta was out of gasoline, how far out would you have had to have gone to get to an open hotel or gas station to refuel?
When Atlanta was out of gasoline, how far out would you have had to have gone to get to an open hotel or gas station to refuel?
It was only a few days and you could eventually find some, but you'd have to get to around Maryland I think to be unaffected. It, like Sherman, affected the entire south.
am still amazed that when something bad happens people are quick to blame God when if you look closer it was likely Mother Nature acting out again.
God isn't blamed for anything. He's credited with everything. There is no evil. Did you not listen to the "maybe" story? Even @Baden is a true believer nowadays. He mindlessly says maybe to everything.
Is the pilgrim hat belt just for show or it used to adjust for head size? I ask because I don't want to embarrassingly request a particular size at the village haberdashery if they're adjustable.
But what about the buckles? I know you are asking. Buckles didn’t come into fashion until decades after the pilgrims left England, and were used as a status symbol, since they were more expensive than other fastening solutions. Pilgrims did wear the black conical hats you’re imagining, called capotains, but they didn’t have buckles. In fact, the Plymouth settlers were so poor, and so conservative of dress, that even their belts didn’t buckle! They kept their pants up with leather laces.
They only wore black clothing on Sunday. The rest of the time they wore hideous prints in bright clashing colors, the better to nauseate the natives.
Is it a deceptive trade practice to store one's gym clothes in his codpiece if the intent is easier travel and not deceit? I ask because I often forget my gym bag on the carriage only to be scolded by the farrier at day's end when it is located.
I'm thinking of leaving my village. Do you guys eat cow shit or do you make cow shit tea with it? I ask because I think Jebedididididiah is pulling my leg. He also says tickling his gonads brings good luck, but something entirely different happens when I do that, so I don't know about him.
Definitely not a KKK type hat. The classic witch's hat (a la WW of the W) was crisply conical and pointed at the top. The pilgrim's hats were more a sloppy cone, made out of non-self-supporting fabric. The buckled pilgrim hat is an anachronism -- too early, as it happens. Illustrators and printers--not knowing better--thought it looked nifty, so pilgrims got buckles on their hats. Note: the WW of the W has some mesh ribbon tied around her hat, the ends of which are flying behind her as she travels on her trusty broomstick. The old bag had no reason to tie ribbons around her hat. Modern men's hats have a band around the hat. Is this decorative, or does it help the hat hold its shape and fit?
I am to learn that the witches' hat, like 90% of everything, has its origins in anti-Semitism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_hat. The irony of the Klan hat having a similar design is just one of those. comical coincidences.
For those curious as to current (albeit retro) Jewish headwear, I give you the signature shtreimel. It takes the right amount of sass to pull off, but, when done right, classic elegance.
Next, I propose we review the Dutchmaster hats, then on to the short billed caps of the street kids who yelled "Extree! Extree!" and handed out papers when a war broke out or a world series got won.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 06, 2021 at 14:35#5470470 likes
It was only a few days and you could eventually find some, but you'd have to get to around Maryland I think to be unaffected. It, like Sherman, affected the entire south.
21h
Some 700 miles from Atlanta to Maryland is what I get from Google (tossing in a couple of miles for pit stops). 700÷19 mpg=38 gallons. Hmmm 7 racing containers for Quads.. I think I can get 700 miles contained in regulation containers. However my youngest indian is concerned about storing that much fuel in a garage that has no AC which made me think I should maybe ask around first before fueling them up. 700 miles would include Nancy's land and well... Mexico might be closer and a better bet.
I saw my first DeSantis for 2024 sign on my way home. Question is: DeSantis/Trump or DeSantis/Scott for a running ticket in 2024.
Having a student who's sister campus is in Daytona, it was easy to see why they are thriving not just surviving.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 06, 2021 at 14:42#5470490 likes
God isn't blamed for anything. He's credited with everything. There is no evil. Did you not listen to the "maybe" story? Even Baden is a true believer nowadays. He mindlessly says maybe to everything.
Maybe story? What book is that in? I know of "And they lived happily ever after." To which I challenge as well. Whose "happily" is being spoken of here? And, AND the last part of that story "The End". The "End" of what or whom?
I'll be patiently waiting for your answer to these burning questions that keep me awake at night.
:halo:
@Baden didn't say maybe to me, he said "yes". Maybe you ruffled his feathers talking about your new four legged family members.
Maybe story? What book is that in? I know of "And they lived happily ever after." To which I challenge as well. Whose "happily" is being spoken of here? And, AND the last part of that story "The End". The "End" of what or whom?
The maybe sorry was that Chinese video posted above.
In the end, everything will be ok. If things aren't ok, it must not be the end.
I am sure that many people are probably fed up with my thread, 'What is your understanding of reality?' I am just putting a mention that there is some fantastic artwork and creative writing by @PoeticUniverse on page 11 of the thread. I just recommend you log in to see the pictures, so that they can be appreciated, rather than get lost and buried on the site.
So everything has its own dik? such that - to quote Meiksins Wood - the dik? of a dog is to fawn on its master and the serf does best when his dik? is to fear his lord. Christianity - which perverts everything
...which perverts everything, declared it sex perversion if your dik? is put in the wrong places.
How wrong and how tyical of a christian to try to own justice for his faith. it is one of the main themes of the "Republic" written some 500 years BCE.
Justice was not invented, nor perfected, nor owned by Christianity. It is an outright lie that it is. Just a typical Christian blindness, "I'm the alpha and the omega" bullshit.
Reply to Maw I guess we’ll know by early 2023 since campaigns here in the U.S. are almost two years long. It's just one of the psychotic things about this country.
we'll actually know by early 2023, remember campaigns here in the U.S. are almost two years long. It's just one of the psychotic things about this country.
After speaking with my family, engaging in solemn prayer, meditating, seeking advice from a guru, climbing My. Everest, going on a drug filled binger, and then finally accepting temporary committal, I have decided to run for President.
Consider this my official announcement!!
Get in line folks. I'm now taking applications for running "mates."
You'd have my vote if I the Gerrymanderers hadn't excluded people from other countries for some ridiculous reason. I assume you'll fix that when elected.
You'd have my vote if I the Gerrymanderers hadn't excluded people from other countries for some ridiculous reason. I assume you'll fix that when elected.
What I'll do for you is draw a district that follows the Chattahoochee River to where it dumps into the sea and then it will meander across the Atlantic to your humble abode to the cliffs where your goats roam. Problem is, with the elimination of the absentee ballot, you're going to need to vote in person at the library down the street from my house.
Ok, just make it illegal not to wear those funny hats. Be so cool watching commuters trying to squeeze into subway carriages with UFOs on their heads. :lol:
After much thought, I've decided that my campaign will be themed around fire. There will bonfires, funeral pyres, forest fires, fire by ambush, firing of key advisors, and ass fires (like when you eat too many hot wings). At some point in the campaign I might switch to ice or wind, not sure yet. I think by focusing on these elemental forces, my campaign will make more sense to the average voter and I'll be taken more seriously.
Yep, I'm the man for the job. As random thoughts occur to me, I'll let you know what else I intend to do.
@Baden did bring up a good question regarding mandated headwear. For showing such insight, I believe he will be my running "mate," which is a reference more to being my first lady than being VP.
@Benkei, as chief legal counsel, could you do me some research? This word "VP," what does it stand for and what does it mean? I'm going to need to know that should there be a debate.
I'll pledge 5,000,000 Iranian Rials to your campaign once you've submitted your signatures to at least one state. .
I'll be running as an Independence for Scotland Party candidate. That party hasn't taken hold like I'd have like to have seen here in the US, so I'm pursuing my presidency under that banner. I'm thinking about having the US enter the EU so that we can eject Lichtenstein from everything important and finally declare it persona non grata. That place makes no fucking sense.
Reply to Hanover VP isn't a word but an abbreviation so I get why you're confused. Don't worry, just sign at the dotted line and I'll take care of everything.
So here's the deal. You're job was (note the tense, which is an indication you've already been fired (which is my theme)) from being chief legal counsel. At this point, you're trying to point out that Liechtenstein is not in the EU, which is an attack on my credibility, which I hold so dear.
It is you, though, who are ridiculous. I said I was going to eject Lichtenstein, not Liechtenstein (whatever the fuck that is).
Reply to Hanover You obviously need a campaign manager. Why are you suggesting the EU is important? That's never going to resonate in God's favourite nation Amurihca.
You obviously need a campaign manager. Why are you suggesting the EU is important? That's never going to resonate in God's favourite nation Amurihca.
This detail is what has you concerned? I thought maybe the the ass fire chicken wings or Scottish thing might have given you more pause. But, I do agree, there are a few small wrinkles to iron out, but we have time, having gotten a good jump on the competition with this early announcement.
We'll amend the constitution to allow cruel and unusual punishment for Donald Trump
There's nothing unusual about cruel. So no amendment needed; the usual cruel punishment will do. (As if there were kind punishments like being forced to eat cream-cakes, unless you don't like them.)
Everybody loves chicken and Mel Gibson but stuttering makes you sound timid and therefore incompetent. Try to avoid that, ok?
I didn't realize I was running on a competency platform. If we're going to go in that direction, we need to talk about it some more after I kill this buzz with a few Red Bulls.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 09, 2021 at 13:40#5482670 likes
Are you sure about that?
I have never met an AMAZING politician.
Maybe you are the Unicorn we have been searching for :pray:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 09, 2021 at 13:47#5482710 likes
Border of Arizona is wide open and the border patrol is overwhelmed with child trafficking from the Southern Cartels which allows for distraction of immense proportions.
Neither the drugs being shuffled in while CBP is occupied, nor those seeking asylum are staying in Arizona for very long.
It's going to be 113*f on Saturday, nothing survives for long ... the crisis is getting worse my friends.
Neither the drugs being shuffled in while CBP is occupied, nor those seeking asylum are staying in Arizona for very long.
It's going to be 113*f on Saturday, nothing survives for long ... the crisis is getting worse my friends.
Arizona is the harshest environment I've ever visited. The heat, the prickly plants, the poisonous reptiles, and the desolation are a lot to deal with. I guess you guys get used to it, like I've grown used to the 100% humidity here, but I went to the Grand Canyon in the Summer and I literally fried an egg on the ranger's forehead. She was like "what the fuck are you doing," but I was too engrossed in my enjoyment of my scrambled eggs flavored with ranger hat taste to notice.
Speaking of hats, when I'm President, all national park rangers are going to wear red derby hats. Nothing else. Just red derby hats and maybe an argyle sock on their junk. Argyle is Scottish, so that will work for other reasons that make little sense. If the ranger is a female, they'll use Scotch tape to affix the argyle sock to their she-junk. Scotch Guard will be used to protect the sock from the she-moisture from the she-junk.
It's yours then. Under my administration, all appointments are determined by who first declares dibs. It's really only fair, sort of like when you yell "shotgun" to get the front seat.
That will be part of my program that allows people to get off scot free.
I think I've found the perfect VP candidate for you. From Yahoo news:
During a Tuesday hearing of the House Natural Resources Committee, Rep. Louie Gohmert seemed to float a novel idea for solving the climate crisis: changing the orbits of the Earth and moon... “I was informed by the immediate past director of NASA that they’ve found that the moon’s orbit is changing slightly and so is the Earth’s orbit around the sun. We know there’s been significant solar flare activities, and so,is there anything that the National Forest Service or BLM can do to change the course of the moon’s orbit or the Earth’s orbit around the sun? Obviously that would have profound effects on our climate.”
Also, some new slogans:
A chicken in every pot and a Trump in every prison
54-40 or fart
The Hanover that can be elected is not the eternal Hanover.
I did not have sex with that woman.
Why not [s]the best[/s] Hanover
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 09, 2021 at 21:10#5483720 likes
Legalising drugs will solve one of those problems. You can go all patriotic and have home-grown cocaine and marihuana.
6h
More than half the states have legalized marijuana including Arizona so it doesn't pay anymore. As far as the Methamphetamine coming across the boarder? It is coming across the boarder since the USA made the ingredients illegal to purchase without a drivers license that is recorded. So yes, we are importing Meth and Fentanyl which is illegal here as well.
Cocaine still comes in but I am pretty sure it is coming in through Miami.
But the Cartels are driven by money and right now the world understands that the trafficking of minors is the Gold Rush of 2021 on the southern border of the USA.
Democrats have donkeys; republicans have elephants (big fat bitter & resentful bellowing lummoxes); Ross Perot had a big sucking sound; Hanover? A cud-chewing, cloven hoofed, behorned, head-butting, knobby-kneed, French cheese producing, rectangular pupilled, consort of Satan. The French Connection is suspicious enough, never mind Satan and Georgia.
Reply to frank I like that GOATOVER is already suffering an arrow of outrageous fortune lodged in his side. Now to get the goat into a sling [see Hamlet Act III sc. 1) so his supporters can investigate his positions at their leisure.
Reply to T Clark You assume correctly. It's part of the Department of the Interior. Supposing that Black Lives Matter might be asked to alter the moon's orbit is more amusing than supposing that the Bureau of Land Management might be asked to do such a thing.
Amusing repartee is the point here, is it not? Speaking of which, your lawn signs for GOATOVER need a hefty dose of brevity and a sharper edge. Some potential white voters in Georgia can read now, but subtlety will be lost on them.
Supposing that Black Lives Matter might be asked to alter the moon's orbit is more amusing than supposing that the Bureau of Land Management might be asked to do such a thing.
But, on the other hand, Black Lives Matter has as good a chance of changing the moon's orbit as the Bureau of Land Management. So do Cecil the Seasick Sea Serpent, Bitter Crank, Nancy Pelosi, and my dead great grandmother.
I'm shocked that this is not on the international radar seeing as how much it mattered during the last administration. Child trafficking is the most lucrative from of international business at the border from California to Texas.
I do find it odd what a difference a year makes in the eyes of those who stand or stood up for the "inhumane" treatment of asylum seekers.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
Well the nooz says the present issue has to do with a more humane approach used by Biden. He isn't shoving unaccompanied minors back into Mexico, so parents are actually paying criminals to take their kids.
This is a sign of severe social disintegration.
And there's no one to help.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 10, 2021 at 19:08#5487240 likes
more humane approach used by Biden. He isn't shoving unaccompanied minors back into Mexico, so parents are actually paying criminals to take their kids.
These kids are being recycled and left by the smugglers when they cannot keep up.
Border ranches are finding abandoned toddlers with phone numbers written on their arms in the hopes of being reunited. There is no need to separate the families because the parents are not coming with them.
This administration is indeed handling it a different way than the last.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff They're just sending accompanied minors back with their parents. That's why parents are paying to have their kids smuggled in. That leaves the kids vulnerable to sex trafficking and slavery.
You know things have to be insane down there for parents to do this.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 10, 2021 at 19:14#5487280 likes
Seriously? Do you think our border patrol is saving asylum seekers daily or leaving their 911 calls unanswered?
No. The answer is always a hard no.
When it comes down to the people on the front line, they who are "we" step up.
Safety first, always. How do we control the influx of Covid-19 positive people coming in without us knowing?
Are national borders open for business? Am I able to travel from the USA to Paris without vaccination or proof of a negative COVID 19 test within days of my travel?
I assume you know that BLM means Bureau of Land Management in this context.
People should be respect established occupancy. BLM has been occupied by a branch of the United States Government [genuflect] for 75 years--long enough to establish permanent residency. NFL, NBC, or NPR, are not up for grabs. Just think how annoying it was when GDP replaced GNP!
Reply to frank Factoid: Humans are uniquely allergic to poison ivy. Many birds prefer poison ivy berries. "Wild turkeys, crows, and bobwhite quail are known to feed on poison ivy berries in winter. Black bears, deer, and raccoons even browse on the leaves and stems of the plant as well."
One species' poisoned chalice is another's salad bar.
Reply to Bitter Crank That makes me mildly sad because of my relentless genocidal attitude about it.
Have you ever heard of a Chinaberry tree? It has feathery leaves, purple flowers and highly toxic berries. None of the wildlife around eats them. I've heard it's an old fashioned ornamental that never naturalized. It just happened to be in my backyard when I bought the place.
"direct the National Forest Service or BLM to change the course of the moon’s orbit "— T Clark
That reminded me of a British SciFi program from when I was last in England. They had used the moon to store all of the nuclear waste and one day it blow up. Sent the moon out of orbit and traveling into the wild empty yonder.
That reminded me of a British SciFi program from when I was last in England. They had used the moon to store all of the nuclear waste and one day it blow up. Sent the moon out of orbit and traveling into the wild empty yonder.
That's just about as stupid as Rep. Gohmert's idea. Someone should educate people about conservation of angular momentum.
Got me a cold drink today, for much the same reason! Cheers!
Your use of the term "cheers" signifies you might be British. If that is the case, I seriously doubt what you say. It is well documented that there is no dentistry in the UK.
Got me a root canal today. I no longer have to hear that screaming sound when I drink a cold drink.
20h
Oh Hanover, I can SO relate! I had 9 root canals before I went with total implants. As far as a badge for my finances? The same dentist did a Root canal twice and wound up pulling it at 11:00 pm on a Friday night when I was 8.5 months pregnant.
Talk about audacity to, the bastard tried to bill my dental insurance for 2 root canals and one extraction on the same tooth. Total idiot which is probably a mutual feeling after dealing with me.
Don't go to Mexico for implants and if you do, let me give you a number of a good surgeon that my USA surgeon referrs to for those insistent on traveling while getting their "work" done. :wink:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 12, 2021 at 13:28#5493800 likes
Chocolate and fried chicken and beef sandwiches, but we need wine too. Lots of wine.
Okay I am working on the fried chicken. I ordered some eggs online that are kept in dry ice until they warm up and then hatch! I'll keep you posted on the process as soon as they arrive from Amazon!
The beef sandwiches are going to take too long to grow here in the desert so I suggest Javelina Jerky. It's not beef but it doesn't taste like chicken either, win win!
I'll work on the chocolate but until then, if you would like to join me in the tubs of grapes that need stomping before bottling it would be appreciated!
Did I forget anything?
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 12, 2021 at 13:31#5493820 likes
The same dentist did a Root canal twice and wound up pulling it at 11:00 pm on a Friday night when I was 8.5 months pregnant.
I have a worse story. My dentist put me to sleep and I woke up pregnant. True story.
I was actually referred to a specialist, so I think he did it right. He had a cool microscope and all sorts of soldering iron looking things and some x-ray machine that spun around my head looking for my brain I think.
Okay I am working on the fried chicken. I ordered some eggs online that are kept in dry ice until they warm up and then hatch! I'll keep you posted on the process as soon as they arrive from Amazon!
Is there anything you can't get from Amazon? It's wonderful. It's terrifying. I was thinking that Amazon is a lot like what Sears was back in the early 1900s. The Sears catalogue opened the world for rural America in a way similar to what the internet and Amazon have done for everyone in the early 2000s. If you read about famous country musicians up through at least the 50s, they usually got their first guitar, banjo, or fiddle from Sears.
What happens when someone dies?
We put them in a deep hole... what happens then, whatever, we don't know... we wish them good luck.
That's not really what he said. He said the dead go to the sun and they pray their troubles go away and that they eventually see them again when they die.
I've been watching the boobtube, and I have discovered that if you buy a new car, all the traffic disappears. I used to think it must be because everyone dies due to global warming, but is seems to happen with electric cars too. Is it some many worlds quantum effect?
Me? Picky? :rofl:
Oh you have no worldly idea :sweat:
I know your are not picky, I just meant that we will any kind that Ladybug brings.
And about the wine, can't you just stroll over to California and pick up a couple of bottles. I had some good stuff given to me a couple of years ago from there. Save all the work you know.
:naughty: Oh my, you need to meet my surgeon as he has an amazing sense of humor I just love him! NicK asked the Doctor for a "custom" set for romantic evenings and Doc gave him two thumbs up and they thought it was a GREAT idea until they looked back at me. :gasp:
They were lucky I was tied to the chair with a paper towel around my neck. :brow:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 14, 2021 at 13:12#5503590 likes
Is there anything you can't get from Amazon? It's wonderful. It's terrifying. I was thinking that Amazon is a lot like what Sears was back in the early 1900s. The Sears catalogue opened the world for rural America in a way similar to what the internet and Amazon have done for everyone in the early 2000s. If you read about famous country musicians up through at least the 50s, they usually got their first guitar, banjo, or fiddle from Sears.
Big bright grins!
I was born and bred in Chicago and my Dad was a purchaser for Sears when the Tower opened downtown. The Sears holiday catalog was a well worn book in our house with a lot dog eared pages. Sears sold everything for the house including being able to order a house that arrived disassembled.
From Sears he went onto become Regional Manager for Carson Pirie Scott. :sparkle:
Omg I almost forgot about the Hot Red Pistachios sold in the Craftsman department.
Left the fingers red and for us girls looking to act older used the red shells for lipstick.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 14, 2021 at 13:18#5503630 likes
Can you guess the name of the song these lyrics are from without help from the Internet:
"I would die for you, climb the highest mountain, baby there's nothing I wouldn't do...."
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 14, 2021 at 13:20#5503640 likes
It is the only reason I talk with you, my friends here at this table of "thinkers" and please know that I am here because I absolutely want to be.
Many of you will likely never know how much you mean to me. :heart: :heart: :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 14, 2021 at 13:27#5503670 likes
And about the wine, can't you just stroll over to California and pick up a couple of bottles. I had some good stuff given to me a couple of years ago from there. Save all the work you know.
Better yet I can have it delivered to my ranch!
Our local watering holes started drinks to go during the pandemic, delivery or pick up.
The closest one to the ranch has Prickley Pear Margaritas with sugar on the rim.
I'll get an order together, just know that these margs go down way to easy.
I am thinking we might need to borrow the neighbors burrow to carry some of this stuff out to the fire pit.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 14, 2021 at 13:34#5503720 likes
The Sears holiday catalog was a well worn book in our house with a lot dog eared pages.
Yes. We waited for the toy section in the back. It was like pornography for us. I vividly remember the James Bond Goldfinger set with a laser table to cut 007 in half.
I will bring some shrimps to the party. How do you like them?
Mmmmmm shrimp!
Let's try for over ice but I am okay with shrimp any way! :flower:
Except from the guy who is selling "Fresh Shrimp" out of the back of his van. No so bueno :vomit:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 15, 2021 at 15:10#5507570 likes
We are kissing 117* today. :fire:
After 1 pm everything stops moving.
You literally break a sweat just by breathing outside. The air is notebook paper dry and the sun reflection is blinding. :death:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 15, 2021 at 15:25#5507650 likes
Admittedly, my mind begins to digress with the unreasonable heat, so I do apologize in advance for the following:
Taken out of context I realize but for the two of you to find something pleasurable within the same catalog makes me wonder what else you might agree on.
Taken out of context I realize but for the two of you to find something pleasurable within the same catalog makes me wonder what else you might agree on.
T Clark speaks in metaphor, claiming the Sears toy catalog was like porn. I speak literally in that it was porn. https://www.retrospace.org/2010/12/vintage-scan-28-catalog-of-shame.html
His is worse than mine, as he says "like porn" to mean wonderful and addictive. I use the term just as an objective descriptor.
My point being that I am assured a throne in heaven, yet he is not.
I think the goal is to go through all the Platonic dialogues providing novel interpretations.
If this is directed at me it shows that you are not familiar with the scholarship. Nothing I have said is a novel interpretation. I could point to those doing the work but I won't because you won't read it, or in some cases understand it if you did read it.
You've got to be given special permission to post in that thread and I don't have the authority level to grant you that permission, so I'm getting someone to open that up for you and 180.
Or, maybe I do have the authority level but just lack the ability to navigate the system and figure it out. Both are equal possibilities.
I think there are some here who are able to judge the arguments on their own merits. But I would think a mystic would have no interest in or need for argument.
Reply to Mystic To the actual question of whether it will be moderated, the answer is that it will be moderated to the same extent all threads are moderated. I don't think the debaters are looking for a moderator in the sense of someone asking questions and keeping one another on point like you see (or hope to see) in Presidential debates and the like.
In any event, the atheism versus theism debate isn't something that is likely to be as heated as you might see in a political debate dealing with something as critical as masks versus no masks, so I think everyone will likely be well behaved.
I was thinking - if you're a moderator, when you get elected, won't that cause a conflict of interest in philosophy-related policy?
In the event there is a conflict, I will have to decide whether to resign as President or as moderator. It will be a difficult decision.
My only other option would be to reveal my conflict to every person in the nation and have them sign a form indicating they are ok with it. It won't be that hard if I send out an email blast. My only concern is that some of the emails might get caught in the spam folder and that will cause like a 2 to 3 week delay.
Reply to frank Robotics have come a long ways, but I should note that the 2 or 3 SCOTUSBOTS are not AI robots. They run on a processor used to operate robot vacuum cleaners--just enough power to serve conservative interests. Not that much intelligence, natural or artificial, is required.
Robotics have come a long ways, but I should note that the 2 or 3 SCOTUSBOTS are not AI robots. They run on a processor used to operate robot vacuum cleaners--just enough power to serve conservative interests. Not that much intelligence, natural or artificial, is required.
Now, now. Calm down. Time for your nap. There's a good boy...
Reply to frank What -- a robot justice in your back pocket or a robot vacuum cleaner? One can be had at Target; the other is much, much more expensive.
I can't be the first person to point out what is obvious, that @Mystic, @Foghorn, and @skyblack are all the same person, if they are, in fact, people at all.
Do you know what "spangled" means exactly? Just wondering.
I know what "spangled" means, EXACTLY, but to what degraded use it is being put by the leaking sewer pipe of corroding riff raff, I couldn't say. What are the loathsome lot doing with this blameless adjective?
My wife bought Scotland flags and tickets for the Moscow fan zone to watch Scotland vs England tonight, but the mayor announced a few hours ago that the fan zone will be closed from today: "I didn't want to do this, but we have to".
So I've just set up British TV in the house in preparation for a night indoors watching the football. In some ways it's better than the fan zone, cos I'll get English-language commentary. It's not just about football though: now I can watch Gyles Brandreth on daytime TV.
Woo hoo :party:
Come on up Sir and please bring your beautiful better half!
You know the daily grind here in AZ is accomplish as much as you can outside before 10am. 12-4 siesta feed the animals and then into the pool at sunset before dinner after 8 pm when the sun goes down. We eat in reverse in the summer having a good breakfast and a liquid, often frozen fluids for dinner :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 18, 2021 at 13:44#5525690 likes
@Hanover
An amazing group of singers they found there. I wonder if they got paid?
Pfftttt it is beautiful don't get me wrong but dude standing up and signing the National Anthem was just done in Chicago, you just didn't not stand and sing. Period. Full stop.
It was a wonderful feeling, like finding like voices on Sunday morning but without a "God" worthy of fighting about.
I also remember that the people whom I stood with either served in the military OR had enough respect for those who stood among us, who did serve, to acknowledge that sacrifice.
Interesting as Portland's crisis response team of 56 humans resigned today. Was it because we were singing our Anthem off key?
Is there something else going on?
Why would such heroic people resign from such a position? Maybe there is no longer a need for them in Oregon.
We welcome with open arms anyone who is willing to help us with the humanitarian crisis we have at our border. :sparkle:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 18, 2021 at 13:47#5525770 likes
Now that the Shoutbox is pinned to the front page, maybe it's worth putting in some gentle reminders. Such as, please stay on-topic. If you don't think a discussion is worthy, you can report it or just ignore it. If you think the participants should be talking about something else, start your own topic on it. Be the change you want to see in the world etc.
Was a closet red, yes. Originally, Comrade Sanders, his catchphrase "Kentucky For Communism" somehow got misinterpreted and he ended up selling chicken to fat people.
Reply to frank It is in the national anthem -- "does that star-spangled banner yet wave". It's a reference to the white stars/blue field on the US flag. The author, Francis Scott Key, was referencing the British bombardment of Fort McHenry in Baltimore during the War of 1812.
"Spangled" isn't much used any more; it appeared in print much more commonly in the 19th century. One could say, "star-spangled sky" when describing what the Milky Way looks like. Maybe one could say "star spangled ceremony" to describe the Academy Awards show.
Was a closet red, yes. Originally, Comrade Sanders, his catchphrase "Kentucky For Communism" somehow got misinterpreted and he ended up selling chicken to fat people.
Another factoid. If you come to the US (and please don't), you should buy University of Kentucky hats and shirts because they say UK on them, which when you're back home will make people think you support the UK. If some guy beats the shit out of you at an Irish bar, laugh at their stupidity for not knowing you're just a Wildcat fan and don't give a fuck about the queen.
Now that the Shoutbox is pinned to the front page, maybe it's worth putting in some gentle reminders. Such as, please stay on-topic.
What is the topic? Seriously. Not a point, a question. Honestly, I see about a million topics. Which one is the officially sanctioned topic?
I don't claim to understand the Shoutbox concept, but from reading it appears to be a kind of almost anything goes stream of consciousness water cooler conversation place. This isn't a complaint, I can see value in having such a feature. I just haven't figured it out yet.
Reply to T Clark It's been reported that a particularly offensive well known political figure eats tons of Kentucky Fried Chicken. It's my wishful thinking prediction that this will be the source of his demise.
As for the rest of the site, I do hear what you're saying. The topic has to be defined somehow, and the OP is as good a definition as any. To the degree this is a problem, it tends to limit threads to the level of insight of the original poster. As example, and not meaning to belabor the point....
Imho, I made at least a credible case that the Gaza thread is not really about Gaza. I provided ample evidence, repeatedly. I grant that members thought the thread was about Gaza, and want it to be, and that majority rule is a reasonable procedure. So ok, no problem, case closed.
But the price tag is that that thread will now roll on endlessly discussing a topic that really only one member of the thread is actually sincerely interested in, the fellow who knows people in the region. But ok, it's just a thread, and this is just a forum, so this is not an existential crisis, and life goes on.
But the price tag is that that thread will now roll on endlessly discussing a topic that really only one member of the thread is actually sincerely interested in,
It's just odd that you could write this not realizing how weird it sounds to a readership that knows you can't read minds. Without overt evidence of trolling, we just presume here that posters enter threads they're interested in. We don't presume the ability to look into their souls and judge their deepest motivations. That would make us pretentious wankers.
It's just odd that you could write this not realizing how weird it sounds to a readership that knows you can't read minds. Without overt evidence of trolling, we just presume here that posters enter threads they're interested in. We don't presume the ability to look into their souls and judge their deepest motivations. That would make us pretentious wankers.
Ok, then I'm a pretentious wanker. I accept the award, and would like to thank my mom and the academy. :-)
I'm not a mind reader. I examined the evidence I could find, and reported it. The claim I made was clearly debatable, and I was entirely willing to have it challenged.
In the case of the Gaza thread, I agree that posters sincerely believed themselves to be interested in innocent victims of war in the Middle East. But that's not what the evidence points to, imho, as already stated too many times.
However, I would agree such posters are not yet ready to look any deeper than the propaganda they wish to chant, and that there's nothing I can do about that. So, ending an investigation that members aren't ready for is agreeable here.
And just on the balance of averages, the chances of everyone on that thread except the dude you like being a troll are too slim to bother considering.
I didn't say they were trolls. I said they were confused about their relationship with the topic. I do believe they sincerely think they are concerned about innocent victims in the Middle East, so I wouldn't call it trolling. I'd call it, um, maturity in progress.
Fine, and I believe you were not sincerely interested in having a serious conversation in that thread but just in disrupting it. It's just obvious to me that's the type of person you are. If you believe otherwise, you're just confused about yourself. Maturity in progress, I guess.
Fine, and I believe you were not sincerely interested in having a serious conversation in that thread but just in disrupting it.
I agree that the evidence also reveals that I'm no more interested in innocents in the Middle East than the other posters I've referenced, and already admitted that in the thread under discussion.
You're coming to your "disruption" theory from your conclusion, which you have every right to, that the stated topic of the thread was the real topic. I was attempting to look below the surface, and address what I perceived to be the real topic. It was not my intent to disrupt, but to clarify. From my point of view, I provided excessive clarity :-) and so the big guns were brought in to protect the poster's illusions about their motivations.
I'm ok with that. It's a majority rule situation. And, a property ownership situation. Rome wasn't built in a day, and young people have the right to be young.
More generally, from my perspective, disruption is the job of philosophers. Not disruption for the sake of disruption, but disruption in search of clarity.
More specifically, the job of philosophers is to explore the boundaries of whatever group consensus they find themselves in. In the case of the Gaza thread, the group consensus was that participants were interested in innocent victims in Gaza. I explored that group consensus, tested it, poked and prodded, offered an alternative theory. And was rewarded with the unpopularity which anyone engaged in prodding a group consensus must cheerfully accept as their fate.
DeletedmemberphJune 19, 2021 at 01:56#5531290 likes
Reply to Shawn I don't understand. I don't think we've met. I see you're on this site for 6 years.
I could never do that.
Let's just say I got myself involved in a global conspiracy. And I needed this website to fix some things. Now I'm pretty confident that the lies are buried and the truth won't come out.
I think Baden was suggesting that, now that we have the Shoutbox to let off steam on, we can be less rambunctious on the other threads.
Really, I never would have guessed. :rofl:
On the old PF we had a real box where everyone shouted things. It was funny sometimes to see new people using it as a search box. Some of the greatest stuff came out of that little box.
We even had the Shout bow for a while, after a typo of mine. Pretty random colored shouts.
I agree that the evidence also reveals that I'm no more interested in innocents in the Middle East than the other posters I've referenced, a
The evidence reveals you don't give a shit and that you're clueless about others but somehow think you know. But just shut up about it now. If you try any more of this "I know you more than you know you stuff" on anyone again, you'll be deleted.
DeletedmemberphJune 19, 2021 at 08:21#5532210 likes
On the old PF we had a real box where everyone shouted things. It was funny sometimes to see new people using it as a search box. Some of the greatest stuff came out of that little box.
We even had the Shout bow for a while, after a typo of mine. Pretty random colored shouts.
I think this one really is an improvement. But if the website wants to remain credible it has to think about virtue, morality and ethics. Covid has increased cybercriminality including white collar from Google, Apple and Microsoft. Technically they're not breaking any rules, there's just no international institute to regulate the Web.
Then there's the Chinese government who hire professionals to harass anyone who criticize them.
Or make them disappear.....
I think TPF is doing pretty good though. But there should be an option to delete your account. That's just common internet courtesy.
And please no power abuse from the moderators. Thank you
The evidence reveals you don't give a shit and that you're clueless about others but somehow think you know. But just shut up about it now. If you try any more of this "I know you more than you know you stuff" on anyone again, you'll be deleted.
What's all the hostility about? So I had a theory. And you don't agree. What's new about that? I'm cool with you not agreeing. Why can't you be as well?
Here's one case. Some of the posters being discussed appear to be in their twenties to thirties. You know, one of them specifically mentioned the age of their child. And the other one, well known to you, routinely acts like a child, a phenomena discussed countless times by members other than myself.
I'm 69, somewhere between two to three times the age of aforementioned posters. So what is so outrageous about a theory that I might, just maybe, in some cases, possibly, it could be, have a bit more insight than they do? Sure, it debatable in any particular case, I totally agree. So debate. What's with all the huffing and puffing and threats etc? Am I really THAT threatening??
If we are to argue that age is irrelevant, as aforementioned posters have done on several occasions, that's the same as stating that they don't plan on learning anything as they proceed through life. I'm sure that's not true of them, so why make the claim?
I get that being a mod is a pain in the ass because people are a pain in the ass. I have sympathy for that predicament. However, because this is a philosophy forum, we're supposed to challenge things. And my challenge is this...
In some cases you are reducing the quality of threads to the level of age 27, so that the youngsters will feel comfortable, and will be protected from learning anything too inconvenient to their delicate egos. You have every right to make that choice, and I feel that I have every right to comment on that choice.
If all of this is just too scary, well, ok, no problem. You know where the button is.
Is the new picture of Baden one of Sigmund Freud? I don't understand why people put pictures of others rather than themselves. Using others' pictures seems so surreal, like stepping inside another persona. But, of course, I can understand why many wish to remain anonymous online.
Being 69, you should have enough life experience to know that telling people you know more about what they think and why they think it than they do is not going to be received well and is much more likely to cause disruption rather than be productive. I don't know what else to tell you. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Being 69, you should have enough life experience to know that telling people you know more about what they think and why they think it than they do is not going to be received well and is much more likely to cause disruption rather than be productive.
Yes, I do get that it is not likely to be received well. Surely that's what the evidence demonstrates. Again, being unpopular is just a routine part of being a philosopher. If one wishes to try to play that role, one just has to accept the price tag of unpopularity as cheerfully as possible.
Let's move on to the larger point.
Every collection of human beings will be built around some group consensus. A group consensus is necessary for a group to unite and function etc. Most people are content to chant whatever the assumptions of their group consensus are, because they don't really care about the ideas so much as they just want to be part of a community. Ok, this is normal, and a valid part of social organization.
A problem can arise however when a group consensus is built upon some assumption which is in some way false. The chanters are unlikely to do anything about this, because their bottom line goal is inclusion in the group.
And so the valid job of philosophers is to explore the boundaries of a group consensus, kick the tires, and attempt root out that which may be false. This is never going to be a path to popularity because the majority will not be interested in having the boat rocked.
PREMISE: If people aren't yelling at the philosopher, the philosopher is not doing a very good job.
Your presuming you know others' motivations better than they do is at best amateur psychology and at worst gaslighting. It has nothing to do with philosophy.
Your presuming you know others' motivations better than they do is at best amateur psychology and at worst gaslighting. It has nothing to do with philosophy.
Yes, I have an opinion, a shocking development on a philosophy forum. :-)
I provided ample evidence to support that opinion. Neither you nor the discussed thread members were willing to address and challenge that evidence, because you knew to do so would not turn out too well.
My theory is debatable. The evidence can be challenged. I'm in full agreement with all of that. I'm more than willing to engage, and maybe be shown wrong. But you're not debating or challenging, because you're smart enough to realize that's not going to work. And so, like aforementioned posters, you're hiding behind the tough guy routine.
Philosophy is a search for clarity. We're supposed to follow the evidence as best we can where ever it leads. Sometimes such a quest takes us to inconvenient places.
The way I see it, nobody is required to read my posts. Scrollbars are provided for free with every thread. I can't do anything to anybody, they can only do it to themselves.
What if my assumption that members of the referenced thread were smart enough and strong enough to handle the investigation I was attempting is actually...
... a complement to them?
You know, I could have said to myself, "these guys are far too young and weak to handle this, I'd better leave them alone".
I dunno, I just find such things interesting, the way up can turn out to be down, and down can turn out to be up, and the cycle goes round and round, and the way this sentence could turn out to be the start of a hit song, etc. :-)
Ok, I'm ready, blast me now, really let me have it!!!!
No you didn't, you only thought you thought that, you were really thinking orgasmic bananas, orgasmi-gasmi-gaaaaaaaaaasmiiiiiiii banaaaaaaanaaaaaaaassssss!!!! :party: :party: :party:
I don't claim to understand the Shoutbox concept, but from reading it appears to be a kind of almost anything goes stream of consciousness water cooler conversation place.
I do get that it is not likely to be received well. Surely that's what the evidence demonstrates. Again, being unpopular is just a routine part of being a philosopher. If one wishes to try to play that role, one just has to accept the price tag of unpopularity as cheerfully as possible
Mmm I disagree with the unpopularity part of your "routine" of being a philosopher.
I like to think of us, who are blessed enough to sit at the table of "thinkers" and we have people that you speak of like @Banno and @180 Proof who prod us into places of thought that might in fact take us out of our comfort zone of thought.
But the difference is that Banno and 180 despite or rather because of the way they handle themselves in the pursuit of understanding, are extremely well loved and popular.
It's not easy but they prove it is possible :flower:
Mmm I disagree with the unpopularity part of your "routine" of being a philosopher
Ok, no problem. Well, the way to be popular is tell folks what they want to hear. That ends any real chance of kicking the tires of a group consensus. However, such an "tell them what they want to hear" approach might be fairly labeled rational, as it's a very effective social strategy. If social success is one's priority, then ok, mission accomplished.
I don't really know the posters you mentioned, so I guess I'll have to sidestep comment on the rest of your post.
However, thanks for engaging. It's just sad though that you won't yell at me. That makes me feel like such a bad little philosopher. Why are you doing this to me???? Moderator!!! I'm being victimized!!! :-)
Reply to praxis
It is true that 'a picture is just a picture' but when we think of another it involves an image, visual or otherwise. I am sure that my own is really horrible anyway, but I am trying to come across as myself. I find it more friendly when I have a picture of the person showing, but, of course, I can understand why many would rather be anonymous online.
But the difference is that Banno and 180 despite or rather because of the way they handle themselves in the pursuit of understanding, are extremely well loved and popular.
It's not easy but they prove it is possible
I, on the other hand, am so popular because of the rays of love and sunshine I bring to the forum every day. And because fdrake made me stop calling everybody a "dick."
the valid job of philosophers... to explore the boundaries of a group consensus, kick the tires, and attempt root out that which may be false. This is never going to be a path to popularity because the majority will not be interested in having the boat rocked.
But it doesn't follow that setting out to be unpopular makes one a philosopher.
I don't understand why people put pictures of others rather than themselves.
I have a digital surreal resemblance avatar generator that I coded. It basically sucks out the essence of my inner being and creates a visual portrait of me.
Just shows that even my computer knows how fucked up I am.
Also excessive. That'd be more than 18 sets of 12 reps. Better to do 3-4 sets and then do other ab exercises instead.
Although I tend to just do 4 sets of 12 (slow) decline crunches every other day. The most important thing for visible abs is low body fat, so a healthy diet.
I do two sets of 15 abdominal leg lifts and two sets of 30 crunches with one of those big balls, about every other day. If my math is right, that’s around 4,000 abs for summer, and in the end Foghorn will be more chiseled than I.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 21, 2021 at 13:19#5545120 likes
Does floating around the pool sweating help?
No? How about unloading 40lb bags of horse supplement down at the railroad station in 115* f?
Not just one 40 lb bag but two pallets of bags?
40 bags × 30 per pallet = 1200 lbs × 2 pallets= 2400 lbs.
Me and my best friend, today, :rofl:
1st round is on her if anyone wants to join us!
"We don't need to guess because I was the one who closed it. It was closed due to your failure to provide an argument to support your proposition that atheism is illogical despite the insistence of the person you were debating. I closed it when you finally stopped responding to his requests."
Incorrect. 180 said god was, and I quote "Whatever". So he was not able to make his premise valid or sound, therefore, his belief was not logical. Reply to Hanover
I also don't understand why this thread was needed to pick up where you and 180 left off, considering I left the thread open for two additional days (at 180's request actually) for you to respond and you didn't. As it appears, you were given the floor, with all others specifically excluded, to make your case, but when directly challenged, you quit speaking, had the lights turned off and the thread closed, and then opened up another thread in which to hold court.
Because we gave ourselves an unlimited time to respond. (Weekends are a busy time for all of us.)And you took no exceptions to the rules when you opened it. So you arbitrarily closed it, sorry.
Reply to Hanover
say this with some annoyance because I do have other things to do than accommodate requests from posters and have my time wasted. I'm sure many others would have taken the special consideration they were provided more conscientiously, as opposed to your flippant response and now this thread.
In any event, you, more than any one else, has been afforded adequate opportunity to state all that you wished to state on this subject, so you should have no objection to it being closed.
[b]I can't help that you are annoyed. You did not respect (or honor) our agreement, so if anything, I'm the one who should be annoyed.
Because we gave ourselves an unlimited of time to respond. (Weekends are a busy time for all of us.)And you took no exceptions to the rules when you opened it. So you arbitrarily closed it, sorry.
Your last post stated, "Okay great!
All right folks we've conceded to an even score in round 1; stay tuned for round two!"
You had declared a draw and then quit responding. I then asked for some response, and then nothing.
I'm under no obligation to do anything other than be reasonable, and keeping the debate open forever is not a reasonable request, nor is it unreasonable for me to interpret your nonresponse as a request that you be provided additional time.
I’m pretty sure that if you disagree with anything 3017 says you must have a grudge of some kind, whether it be Einsteinian, Dennettian… I don’t think it matters. The point is you’re irrational and he, God help us, is the voice of reason.
Because we gave ourselves an unlimited of time to respond. (Weekends are a busy time for all of us.)And you took no exceptions to the rules when you opened it. So you arbitrarily closed it, sorry. — 3017amen
Your last post stated, "Okay great!
[b][/I said great because we were going to round two.b]
All right folks we've conceded to an even score in round 1; stay tuned for round two!"
Yep, and round two consisted of attacking the definition standard. Quoting Hanover
You had declared a draw and then quit responding. I then asked for some response, and then nothing.
I'm under no obligation to do anything other than be reasonable, and keeping the debate open forever is not a reasonable request, nor is it unreasonable for me to interpret your nonresponse as a request that you be provided additional time.
Incorrect. We agreed on an unlimited time to respond. You did not honor the agreement. For whatever reason, your moderation was arbitrary. Look, I don't get pleasure on calling people out, but I'm standing-up for the truth here, sorry dude. You're a good guy and all, you just got it wrong there.
I’m pretty sure that if you disagree with anything 3017 says you must have a grudge of some kind, whether it be Einsteinian, Dennettian…
There's no grudge other than being forced to waste my time, but I don't care if the atheist or the theist wins the debate. I'm pretty sure the winner of the atheist/theist debate here at TPF won't actually prove anything other than who the better debater is, but the respective positions will be argued for eternity.
Incorrect. We agreed on an unlimited time to respond. You did not honor the agreement. For whatever reason, your moderation was arbitrary. Look, I don't get pleasure on calling people out, but I'm standing-up for the truth here, sorry dude. You're a good guy and all, you just got it wrong there.
The debate, to the extent there was one, had run it's course and so it was closed. Its closure resulted in no harm to anyone or anything in the universe because it was nonsense. Your apology is part of the absurdity that characterizes this entire episode.
Good morning everyone! I'm excited for the challenge. Let me just say I'll make a Muhammad Ali prediction, and knock 180 out in the third round! And remember, I'll "Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, your hands can't hit, what your eyes can't see.”
I have a lot to say about who I would pick for a moderator (since this site is woefully full of angry atheists) but I'll get to that later with specifics.
As I said I will prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Atheism and its belief systems are not logical. With that, what is your definition you propose that describes your Atheism?
So, @3017amen was going to prove that disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God/gods is illogical. But then, well, that was kind of anticlimactic. :meh:
The existential claims are usually moreso verifiable than falsifiable, so, absent good verification, yo might wonder: why express such certainty in the first place (after all, we're not just talking alien abductions here). In particular if knowledge of God/gods is supposed to be the most important, and the supposed almighties have really important stuff to tell everyone, and they still don't show up or are shown.
Just work with all terms as stipulations and read meanings from the contexts of usage. I'll let you know if you miss my meaning, friend. We're not here to play "twenty questions" quibbling over definitions.
[...]
delays via definitional quibbles, non sequiturs, goal post shifting, quoting from posts on other threads (violates ground rule #2), strawmen, rhetorical questions or what have you [...]
@3017amen, you could just present your (alleged) proof in a fresh opening post. Presumably you don't need @180 Proof or anyone else to do that? Then we'll see, yes?
Reply to jorndoe Leave him be. @3017amen only can bring a piñata to a knife fight. All bark and no bite. "The Louisville Lip" was the real fucking deal, btw, and no glass cannon (or glass codpiece like 3017). Hanover and I may tango soon...
"Ministers are set to approve a new North Sea oil and gas project months before Britain hosts a global climate summit in Glasgow."
...in other news:
"Plans for the UK's first deep coal mine in decades will go ahead after the government decided not to intervene."
They don't truly accept and believe climate change is real. It belongs to an understanding of reality - foreign and inimical to the religious, political and economic, ideological (mis)conception of reality from which they draw their identities and purposes. Deep down, the record skips - and the science doesn't stick, and that's because philosophy has been undermining the truth value of science for 400 years - and continues to do so.
It's sad that the philosophy, politics, economics - and dare I say it, religion of science as truth was not developed. Instead, 400 years of subjectivist navel gazing to protect the Church, while government and industry used science as a tool, without regard to science as an understanding of reality - careless as to the externalities of an ideological justifying rationale. And they're still doing it.
So we're doomed. I tried, but - sorry. There's something wrong with you. You have ideological psychosis, and it's terminal. There's nothing I can do.
Deep down, the record skips - and the science doesn't stick, and that's because [s]philosophy[/s] capitalism has been undermining the truth value of science for 400 years - and continues to do so.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 23, 2021 at 16:53#5556000 likes
May I be so bold to make a suggestion to the males in this forum? If you see a woman fall off a 2.5 ft tall trailer onto blacktop pavement in 113* heat AND she is unable to get up from the obvious injury she just sustained? Please, please, please saunter over to see if you can help. :pray:
I'm not asking for a run, race, charge or even a rush. A simple saunter over will be more than the people who were around me and my girlfriend could muster.
They had the time to come over and tell us how we had the tie down straps on backwards, which we were very Thankful for and said as much.
But as her and I were putting on the last tie down, I had one foot on the trailer fender outside of the trailer and the other one a half foot down on the trailer bed. Warned I was tossing the hook over the top of the pallet and I landed the hook on the otherside perfectly. :100:
And when I heard the "ting" that it landed on the other side, I realized that the force it took for me to get the hook over was now having an equal and opposite reaction. I had milliseconds to think about the best part of my body to absorb this fall.
I needed to protect my head and tucked it and realized once I was on the ground I was not going to feel as good as I did in that millisecond. My left elbow, shoulder and knee took the brunt of the fall.
My girlfriend couldn't see what happened because she was on the other side of the trailer standing back waiting for the hook but the men who told us about our error yelled to her "She lost her balance." AND that was it. Period. Full stop.
I couldn't get up because of the gash in my knee bleeding, my elbow bleeding with blacktop in it and I couldn't breathe easily. She came over and was like you have to get off the pavement. I tried but I just couldn't get out of the crunch position.
I finally crawl up her body and she gets me 4 feet and I can't handle it. It takes forever to get me into the cab of her truck and she takes me to the hospital. They staple my knee closed after doing a CT scan to make sure I didn't slice my spleen. I have a nondisplaced fracture of the left 5th rib.
Nothing they can do but pain meds and time.
I'm 12 years Opiate free so I don't allow myself to have access to them outside of the hospital so Advil, ice, Lidocaine patches for my rib and an imobilizer for my left leg.
Parting gift: a plastic bubble machine that I am supposed to use to not get Pneumonia and to make sure the fracture doesn't turn inward.
And the nurse said because I was special that I was getting an extra gift and snaps a wristband on tight, shows it to my son before me, to which he Thanked the nurse and then showed me.
A neon yellow bracelet with "FALL RISK" written in black that she wants to see on me when I get my staples taken out 10 days from Monday.
Until then I can't go swimming, drive our stick shift, cough or laugh without splinting my chest from pain. Grrrrr
I did learn a couple of things from this experience, one of which is a new use for Saran wrap. They want me to wrap my knee with it when I shower.
May I be so bold to make a suggestion to the males in this forum? If you see a woman fall off a 2.5 ft tall trailer onto blacktop pavement in 113* heat AND she is unable to get up from the obvious injury she just sustained? Please, please, please saunter over to see if you can help. :pray:
That sounds awful sexist to run to the aid of a woman. I'll have no part of it.
Deep down, the record skips - and the science doesn't stick, and that's because [s]philosophy[/s] capitalism has been undermining the truth value of science for 400 years - and continues to do so.
Blame it on capitalism then. I'm done. Have less and pay more until you're all communists; and when you have absolute power, let's see how long you can resist the genocide solution. Don't even try for a scientifically and technologically feasible prosperous and sustainable future - if that requires acknowledging science isn't just a tool, but is actually an understanding of reality you should have valued, but instead, besmirched for four centuries!
May I be so bold to make a suggestion to the males in this forum? If you see a woman fall off a 2.5 ft tall trailer onto blacktop pavement in 113* heat AND she is unable to get up from the obvious injury she just sustained? Please, please, please saunter over to see if you can help.
Best I can do is a concerned "are you alright, love?"
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff One of the things I have learned over the years is that one never knows when, where, and how disaster is going to strike next. It will strike, however.
Yes, indeed! Fractured ribs, displaced or not, are very painful. I cracked several 3 years ago bicycling in the snow -- the wheels slipped sideways and down I went. Not content to walk the rest of the short way home I got back on and fell twice more. The pain, interestingly, did not begin for several days. When it did, it was quite spectacular.
Question: How is a lidocaine patch (mine was a very big patch) supposed to affect injured tissue that is maybe a centimeter below the patch? I asked the ER nurse; "Good question" she said. Anyway, it didn't help. Ibuprofen worked.
The other day I dropped my cane in Target and a nice young man rushed over to pick it up. Slightly humiliating. Old people, like old trees, old barns, old outhouses, fall down. I'm a fall risk. There is something about the impact of a fall (off the trailer, down a couple of steps, backing up against a box in the basement, stumbling on the sidewalk...) that makes it difficult to get up instantly -- it takes the older brain a little more time to complete the survey of all the various systems. Systems Check: green, green, green, orange but not essential, green, green, red and essential; hmmm, that could be a problem. You know you're in serious trouble when you no longer care that somebody will see you lying in a heap.
I'm not sure opioids are all that effective for some kinds of pain. I had oxycodone after surgery last year and it did help, but that was a steady pain. After 10 days I didn't need it. Fractured rib pain seemed to be more periodic and 'stabbing', rather than sustained pain.
I now better understand why our old dog stopped laying down on the couch and just collapsed on the couch.
Saran Wrap. Fine product, has many uses. Saran Wrap was briefly promoted as a safe sex device back in the 1980s, until it was discovered that people were dying from suffocation after inhaling the flimsy film. Just tragic.
There is something about the impact of a fall (off the trailer, down a couple of steps, backing up against a box in the basement, stumbling on the sidewalk...) that makes it difficult to get up instantly -- it takes the older brain a little more time to complete the survey of all the various systems. Systems Check: green, green, green, orange but not essential, green, green, red and essential; hmmm, that could be a problem.
Sounds familiar. I probably shouldn't be skateboarding at my age. :grimace:
Reply to Noble Dust The biggest tow truck tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck... and is big enough to stow the three stars on Orion's belt-- Alnitak, Alnilam, and Mintaka -- in the glove compartment, with room to spare for the big and little dippers.
Stowing stars and tucking dippers in the glove compartment of your bigger, slower tow truck goes far until you slip and get stuck in some grotesque muck. Fuck. Now the department throws a hipper trucker a buck and you're out of luck and feeling low.
Reply to praxis
Can you do a series of surrealists paintings of a guy whose head exploded and he goes to sea? the hole gets darker and darker and he eventually puts a soccer ball in it with a face painted on it.
Deep down, the record skips - and the science doesn't stick, and that's because philosophy has been undermining the truth value of science for 400 years - and continues to do so.
That's not the problem. The problem isn't science, it's the connection between science and action. That's politics and it get's mixed up with corporate influence. That's the problem. That's how things work and how they've always worked. In this particular case, climate change. I think the good guys are doing surprisingly well.
The biggest tow truck tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck that tows the tow truck... and is big enough to stow the three stars on Orion's belt-- Alnitak, Alnilam, and Mintaka -- in the glove compartment, with room to spare for the big and little dippers.
Are you and @Noble Dust saying that it's tow trucks all the way down?
That's not the problem. The problem isn't science, it's the connection between science and action. That's politics and it get's mixed up with corporate influence. That's the problem. That's how things work and how they've always worked. In this particular case, climate change. I think the good guys are doing surprisingly well.
Ultimately, our relationship to science is a philosophical question. Philosophy informs politics, which - in turn creates a legislative framework within which capitalism operates. Those keen to blame everything on capitalism are missing something far more fundamental; basically, that the crisis of existence we face is a consequence of applying the wrong technologies.
That occurred because we used science as a tool without recognising a scientific understanding of reality as an instruction manual for use of those tools. Correcting this mistake is key to sustaining capitalism. Hence, capitalism is not the problem.
It's capitalism operating within a legislative framework, designed by political institutions, informed by philosophies that are wrong. 400 years of subjectivist soul gazing; from Descartes cogito - through to post modern rejection of universalist ideas of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, science, language, and social progress. That's the problem.
Can you do a series of surrealists paintings of a guy whose head exploded and he goes to sea? the hole gets darker and darker and he eventually puts a soccer ball in it with a face painted on it.
I suggest that you work through whatever that's about with a good therapist. A painter can really only express their own psychosis.
Dump trucks tend to hump other unsuspecting trucks in the truck rump, but more often than not, they trip on their dumb dump kicks and flip. Harold in that photo is an example.
So, who else is disgusted about what appears to be 13 years of slavery for Britney? Who ordered a spiral to be placed? How is that even fucking possible? An invasive operation against someone's will is basically rape.
I've been kind of obsessed with this subject for many years, so - sure, differently! You could say that. What I'd say though is - this is wrong:
Ministers 'should urge public to eat less meat'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57580254
and this is right:
Climate change: Large-scale CO2 removal facility set for Scotland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57588248
Climate change is a supply side problem, treated like a demand side problem - and this too is a philosophical issue dating back to Malthus, Essay on Population, 1798. Malthus was wrong; yet his essay continues to inform a left wing green policy agenda.
Taxing meat to reduce demand will harm poor consumers - to say nothing of farmers. I cannot understand, morally speaking - how the left endorse such a policy approach - for it would certainly exacerbate inequality. Presumably, harming the poor is worth it, to make an anti-capitalist battering ram of sustainability.
I would sustain capitalism with limitless clean energy from magma, and extract carbon from the atmosphere, desalinate, irrigate, recycle. In my future, you wouldn't even have a carbon footprint!
I would sustain capitalism with limitless clean energy from magma, and extract carbon from the atmosphere, desalinate, irrigate, recycle. In my future, you wouldn't even have a carbon footprint!
, who else is disgusted about what appears to be 13 years of slavery for Britney? Who ordered a spiral to be placed? How is that even fucking possible? An invasive operation against someone's will is basically rape.
Rape and slavery analogies never miss the mark.
It does seem abusive though what's going on with her, but maybe she's bouncing off the walls crazazy. She said she was required to have an IUD by the court, which is shocking.
And I thank you for being there, if just to bounce my ideas off. I go nuts if I don't talk about it. Shouting at passing traffic crazy. I think maybe, if you could see the opportunity forgone, you too would be incensed. I've always been into science, and I studied politics - and got into philosophy via political theory. I'm surprised philosophy isn't more interested in the question of our continued existence, or not! And if so, how? It would seem to me a logical juxtaposition of concepts, such that the million monkeys here - were bound to stumble blindly upon it eventually! This is the question of our time; and I think it comes down to this: do we deserve to exist?
[quote=The Moscow Times]A group of Russian pensioners known as “Putin’s Troops” has come out in defense of Britney Spears in the midst of her court battle against an “abusive” guardianship.
The babushkas — whose rants against the Russian president’s enemies often go viral online — praised the American pop star for “finally expressing her desire to be a human and not a slave.”[/quote]
It does seem abusive though what's going on with her, but maybe she's bouncing off the walls crazazy. She said she was required to have an IUD by the court, which is shocking.
I'll join the Free Britney movement with you.
Yeah, I was rather livid when I read it so poor choice of words. But if crack whores can have multiple kids... It's just so alien to me that a conservator can order this and that the system goes along with it. Can the parents in the US order a spiral to be placed in their minor child? Probably not, I suspect? So what makes a conservator able to?
Reply to T Clark I'll continue as if you've answered in the negative, because that's what I think you think. I would argue your view - as I have arbitrarily assigned it to you, is because we've become jaded precisely because science - which is demonstrably valid, was set in opposition to spirituality.
In effect, we have disproved spirituality, and now we're all ...meh! In face of the existential threat of climate change, we don't care. The application of technology is weak and inefficient, as if to prove sacrifice is necessary to sustainability - sacrifices people will be unprepared to make. Do you even want humankind to survive? I think it's a reasonable question.
At least religionists have some rightful sense of awe and wonder at the very fact of our existence - that sadly, they divorced from what might have been science as valid knowledge of Creation. That was a mistake, I think leads to this jaded view of humanity - that would be the polar opposite had science been welcomed as valid knowledge of Creation, and pursued and integrated on an ongoing basis for the past 400 years, it could have occurred as proof of divine beneficence - and been applied rationally to secure a prosperous sustainable world.
We are surrounded by technological miracles we take wholly for granted. We apply technology piecemeal, as the politics and economics dictates, when we could harness the inherent functionality of a scientific understanding of reality, and make a paradise of the world if we'd just accept science is true and act accordingly; the functional spill-over will be profoundly beneficial. If it's is true that it is scientifically and technologically possible to secure a sustainable future, we are morally obliged to seek such an outcome; and the people living in that world, those people would claim that they deserve to exist!
We live in the worst of both worlds; having lost our spirituality, and gained only a half assed sub optimal if not downright dangerous misapplication of technologies. It's no wonder you don't care. All I can tell you is, it wasn't meant to be like this.
Why don't you start a thread about how science proves capitalism is the right organisational structure for society?
That's not a claim I would make because at its heart is a naturalistic fallacy; that because something is true in nature, it ought to be to be so. And that's assuming a naïve socio-biological analogy between evolution and capitalism is valid - whereas, in fact 'survival of the fittest' is an impoverished view of evolution, and nowhere does capitalism operate as an entirely free market. So not that; but I suppose I could start a thread about what I am actually saying. I'll give it some thought.
We live in the worst of both worlds; having lost our spirituality
Whatever spirituality is. It's a tough term to nail down. I'm never certain what people mean by it.
For whom are you speaking? When you or I say "people have lost their spirituality" are we speaking for ourselves? Are we speaking of those people who never had a spiritual life; or of people who had, but lost their sense of the spiritual?
I readily grant that the society we have lived in for at least the last century is alienating. But is it technology, per se that is alienating or is it more the large scale of society and its intensive management and manipulation of our lives (which technology, of course, aids and abets)?
I do not blame science. Just because Darwin showed that life is far older than the biblical calculation of 6,923 years, or that we are pretty closely related to Chimpanzees; just because it has been shown that the universe is far bigger than we thought and began with "the Big Bang" is no reason--in itself--to be less spiritual. Many chimp-related, Big Bang believing folk are still spiritually engaged.
So who is to blame?
There are several "culprits" some of which are--perhaps a surprising nomination--religious organizations. Not all, but a lot of them have retreated into a rigid, conservative, last-ditch defensive stance. They are too out of sync with the real world to address it meaningfully. Some others exist in some sort of la-la land--the passive lukewarm wishy-washy, neither fish nor fowl.
Secularism and mass society is another "culprit", cause, or agent of alienation. Secularism and mass society go together. It takes a lot of heavy 'secular' organization and management for diverse mass societies to flourish. The previous world of small communities, close kinship, widely shared traditions, and comforting spirituality and so forth are ripped apart.
Secular, mass societies can alienate, but they also provide new forms and opportunities for engagement, belonging, meaning, and yes--spirituality (but not like 'the old time religion').
I don't mean to sound Pollyanna-ish. A secular mass industrial society on the verge of killing itself off isn't eligible for a resounding vote of confidence. It's just that the society we live in -- mass, techno, secular, go-go -- isn't all bad.
I don't mean to sound Pollyanna-ish. A secular mass industrial society on the verge of killing itself off isn't eligible for a resounding vote of confidence. It's just that the society we live in -- mass, techno, secular, go-go -- isn't all bad.
I don't mean to sound critical; except of our relationship to science - for which I'm merely pointing out the evidence, and the consequences. I wouldn't presume to define spirituality, but I would question the supposed cold nihilistic materiality of science.
Given a scientific understanding of reality, we are not ill favoured; and if we applied the right technologies we could live well, far into the indefinite future. How is that not a spiritual matter? I think the stark dichotomy between science and spirituality is a mistake, with far reaching consequences - not least, a misapplication of technologies that brings us to the brink of extinction.
In the past few years climate change is big news, and the ground seems to be shifting, but I would argue that we haven't really learnt the lesson; even if we now acknowledge the bare fact of climate change, the choice of technologies we apply, and don't apply - is still dictated primarily by ideological priorities.
Consequently, the wrong technologies are still being applied, and are not adequate to the challenge we face because we haven't understood that science is a valid understanding of reality we need to act responsibly with regard to, or become extinct. How is science not the word of God? Causality is a verdict on the validity of our understanding; and the other side of that same coin, is accepting science as truth and acting accordingly, we could secure a prosperous and sustainable future, and exist for a long time in the universe.
Here's the most I could find on her story: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/2021/06/10544132/britney-spears-forced-iud-conservatorship
We have so little of the story, including how much of her statements were true, what she might have consented to to avoid full comimital, if she's on medication that might cause birth defects so birth control is required, whether she's dangerously violent, whether she's schizophrenic, etc. These matters are obviously kept confidential, which means the other side can't freely respond publicly. It's possible what we heard were the rantings of someone deeply troubled and entirely inaccurate.
I'm not saying injustice doesn't happen, but, as presented, the allegations claim basic human rights violations so extreme I'm not willing to entertain them until the full story is revealed, which may be never. I have one side of the story and it's from someone a judge, following a hearing on all the evidence, has declared mentally incompetent.
Reply to T ClarkReply to counterpunch Speaking of a loss of spirituality... I haven't seem a bathtub Modanna shrine lately. Its a claw-foot tub, tipped on end; painted blue on the inside, probably on the outside, with a painted statue of the Madonna upright in the tub. It might be possible to gauge the spiritual well being of the Roman Catholic by the on-going maintenance of cast iron BVM. The deeper the faith, the nicer the paint job.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our urgent need, or death--whichever comes first. And help these people get the tub painted.
I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I've got my plastic Jesus
Sitting on the dashboard of my car.
Comes in colors, pink and pleasant
Glows in the dark cuz it's irredescent
take it with you when you travel far.
Get yourself a sweet madonna dressed in rhinestones
sitting on a pedestal of abalone shell;
Going 90 I aint scary
Cuz I got the Virgin Mary
assuring me that I won't go to hell.
Either that, or the average age of those joining the Church! I suppose it's all related - I mean, someone either had to dig a hole six feet deep to bury that tub taps first, or cut a tub in half ??? Them old nuns are tough, but either way, that's young man's work!
If it is your claim that spirituality is alive and well, I'm not going to argue - but, still - I think that science is disenchanting, while not quite displacing religion altogether, and it's the worst possible compromise between those two bodies of knowledge.
Science is deprived of the authority to direct the application of technology, while religion - with that spiritual sense of awe and wonder, loses ground as knowledge advances. How are we unimpressed by valid knowledge of Creation? It's a mistake!
it is your claim that spirituality is alive and well, I'm not going to argue - but, still
You'd only be arguing with yourself. How would you prove to someone of faith they have none?
My faith is so strong, when it drags, I have faith that is exactly where it ought to be for the fulfillment of my purpose. Should I find myself completely without hope, rejecting all sense of higher power of any sort, how my heart will soar with the faith I am as I should be, perfectly placed for the purpose of my creation. The most soul crushing moments are invigorating, elevating.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 26, 2021 at 15:20#5570000 likes
@Hanover @Bitter Crank
Where exactly is the end of the line of the confessional you two are waiting on because it's going to be a while :razz:
Take a number? Something like that?
Oh and since when did we decide to go back to church? :sparkle:
And in the Autumn comes Goat Taco Tuesdays? :eyes:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 26, 2021 at 15:39#5570150 likes
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/26/johnson-johnson-new-york-opioids-case
Now? Now? As if!
Do you know what the patients gained in addition to the addiction that the Doctors got kickbacks for?
We addicts (God willing recovering) will not be allowed to have pain relief the next time something serious goes wrong and we are hospitalized. Sure they are going to administer the necessary in an Emergency but none gets to come home after discharge. And let me end this rant by saying it's NOT because pain control wasn't offered but because I refuse to feed that dragon that lays slain in the corner but never dies.
Speaking of a loss of spirituality... I haven't seem a bathtub Modanna shrine lately. Its a claw-foot tub, tipped on end; painted blue on the inside, probably on the outside, with a painted statue of the Madonna upright in the tub. It might be possible to gauge the spiritual well being of the Roman Catholic by the on-going maintenance of cast iron BVM. The deeper the faith, the nicer the paint job.
Reply to T Clark
Yes, I keep looking at the picture representing Banno and feel a bit puzzled too. Perhaps it is his girlfriend, daughter or Banno's inner female side.
Reply to Benkei
Some aspects of Britney's life story are very sad and make me so angry, it's stories like these that should serve to remind us that we're not nearly as advanced a society as many like to think. The other interesting thing about it is how these really pathetic articles from predatory tabloids that search for misleading and compromising pictures and stories gets commented on by comedians, celebrities, news media and the like and becomes fact. "Everyone says/knows" is such a dangerous justification.
And then the with guardianship/custodianship, I've heard of horror stories before but it's something one can only be so desensitised to. The circumstances are too absurd for fiction, but it's the world we live in, apparently.
If it is your claim that spirituality is alive and well, I'm not going to argue
Where do I stand? I am pretty much a non-believer. Religion has been a long-time interest, and I like liturgical worship and solid protestant hymn singing. For me, occasionally attending church is a "spiritual entertainment", a guilty pleasure, rather than an exercise in faith.
What I am arguing (in a serious vein, never mind bathtub Mary and plastic Jesus, is that a large percentage of the population have a living spirituality. They pray, they tithe, they think about what God expects of them (per Micah 6:8, the Sermon on the Mount, et cetera), they do good works, they have faith. They are not a majority in Western countries
How many people fit this description? Pew Research surveys of religiosity show varying levels among different groups -- as one would expect. I'll make a very rough estimate that 30% of Americans are religious, and experience spirituality in their daily lives. It's lower among Europeans, higher elsewhere. Of the 70% who are not actively religious, they are by no means all atheists or agnostics. Many of the 70% hold a hash of left-over beliefs and practices. Sixty million adults out of 200 million is a substantial number; so are one hundred fifty million adults who are not.
I think that science is disenchanting, while not quite displacing religion altogether, and it's the worst possible compromise between those two bodies of knowledge
Absolutely! Science and technology are disenchanting. You are on the mark in seeing a very bad compromise between science and religion and many people straddle the fence uncomfortably. It will take humankind quite a bit of time to work through this muddle.
Resolution does not involve a re-enchantment, but recognizing the great depth of meaning in science. "Science" is another word corrupted by application. Discovering DNA was magnificent. Making corn plants resistant to RoundUp, not.
Absolutely! Science and technology are disenchanting. You are on the mark in seeing a very bad compromise between science and religion and many people straddle the fence uncomfortably. It will take humankind quite a bit of time to work through this muddle.
I think it's corporate finance that is disenchanting. For profit makers, the only justification for action is making money. Spending money for enchantment, spirituality, even beauty is meaningless to them.
Reply to Hanover Oh yes, very old news. Some people were disenchanted when, for the first time, their haunch of zebra was served roasted instead of raw. They walked out in a huff. Didn't leave a tip, either -- the bastards.
yes, very old news. Some people were disenchanted when, for the first time, their haunch of zebra was served roasted instead of raw. They walked out in a huff. Didn't leave a tip, either -- the bastards.
Speaking of food, faith, and proof for the existence of God, how did they come up with tiramusu? I get how pound cake could be stumbled upon with its basic ingredients, but I'm to think some guy looked in the fridge and pantry and saw some lady fingers, some espresso, rum, cocoa, and some mascarpone cheese (wtf is that anyway?) and he didn't say "gonna go out, not shit here to eat tonight," but he instead created that heavenly concoction that seems like it was squeezed from the teats of God herself?
And you guys talk of having lost your faith? It's like you're watching the Red Sea part and saying "not sure yet if there's someone up above helping me out." Does not tiramasu prove all that needs proof?
Reply to Hanover First rate cheese cake, tiramisu, pound cake, etc. are all signs that God loves us and wants us to be happy. So is bacon. Orgasms are proof of God's unending love. "Young Adam is really going to like this!" God said as he finished making Man One, complete with the Climax Corporation's patented Orgas-o-tron Circuit.
Thanks for your post(s) - I didn't respond because I took the day off, for no particular reason, and read an article about the incorporation of mitochondria by early cells, enabling them to produce energy internally. Amazing!
Your post immediately puts me in mind of the contrast between the US and much of Europe with regard to religion; that you have a constitutional separation of powers - that ironically, promoted religion in the social sphere, more so than in Europe where connections between Church and state are more traditional, I think we are more philosophically secular.
I'm British, and there was some jam and Jerusalem style mild Christianity in my upbringing - I didn't think myself much affected by until, in my early twenties, I began to audit the accumulated contents of my head, and found that religion is everywhere; it underlies so much of our culture and psychology, the calendar, language, sayings - it's ubiquitous, and I wanted to see beyond it.
I was atheist and angry for a long time; but ultimately, had to concede that, because I had come to value rationality and scientific method, then rightfully I must acknowledge that I don't know if God exists. Science doesn't rule out the existence of God. And the individual theist isn't the origin of the idea; so doesn't bear the burden of proof. God occurs in the course of evolutionary development, and serves a critical political purpose as the authority for social morality and law for thousands of years. It's important, but still, our relationship to science is a mistake that now threatens our existence! Understanding that is key to the future, because, given a scientific understanding of reality - it is technologically possible to survive and prosper long term.
Currently, we are swimming against the ideological tide fighting climate change. Measures to reduce energy use and consumption are inimical to our ideological interests, they are politically difficult, expensive - and for no tangible benefit. We must identify the key log, transcend the log jammed equation, escape the impending bottleneck - and it is technologically possible, but requires adopting science as a common rationale for the application of technology, and on that basis, first harnessing limitless clean energy from magma.
But people can't see it - whether they are spiritually active or not, religious conceptualisation is ubiquitous, and accepted consciously or unexamined - excludes science as an understanding of reality, and so excludes the possibility of applying the right technologies to overcome climate change and prosper long term.
"Young Adam is really going to like this!" God said as he finished making Man One, complete with the Climax Corporation's patented Orgas-o-tron Circuit.
My understanding is that having orgasms is why Adam and Eve were kicked out. Now that's what I call a tree of knowledge.
That's not the interesting part. The interesting part is that she'll be charged with "unintentional short-term injury through a manifestly deliberate breach of a duty of safety or care." Like how did they know that they'd one day need such a specific law?
Reply to Hanover Yeah, I saw that. Did you watch the video? This stupid c£&% is solely focused on getting her sign on camera, she's not even looking at the peloton.
I don't think you can troll on the Shoutbox. You can write whatever you want. It's our sanctuary. We all hide here like Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy. If we step outside, they'll extradite us to Moderatorvilia. Moderatorania. The country where all the moderators are.
If she had hindsight, she'd have done that. If he had hindsight, he'd have seen it from behind. Fault is equal as I see it due to both of their lack of hindsight.
I'd choose dominoeing toppling crashing screaming bikers over a chain linked countryside any day. It's a matter of preference I guess. I could see how some would choose the opposite. The bikers for example.
Reply to Wheatley I actually thought that made him likeable. The problem is that Trump beat up on him for being quiet and humble and contrasted it against his own brash style, so now everyone is looking for Bush to be the wimp Trump said he was, but I like a little self-deprecation and humility. It showed he had a firm reading of the room for how he was presenting.
If something was created from nothing, how? And if there was always something, why do people think it so unlikely EVERYTHING fathomable also exists and always did as well, just perhaps in different planes/universes/realms/etc. Is this really such a stretch from something already nearly inconceivable? Moving spotlight, string/multiverse theory, etc.?
Is this really such a stretch from something already nearly inconceivable? Moving spotlight, string/multiverse theory, etc.?
Lots of things are not a stretch. Christian doctrine is no more a stretch than quantum mechanics. It's just that there's no evidence for God - or string theory and the multiverse.
Europe has been blanketed with featureless grey cloud for weeks. London looks like Venice after a flood, while the US north west and Canada are apparently getting record breaking heat. I was wondering, if these slightly odd weather events are replicated elsewhere.
Reply to Baden What's going on -- how come that in a thread, under a poster's name, it says 0 posts, or some other small number, when the poster actually has far more posts?
I'm thinking I'll run it with the reputation feature turned on for a couple of weeks and then run a poll to see if you all like it. Like, do you like likes or do you dislike likes?
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 17:38#5585510 likes
Reply to jamalrob It is interesting to see how many upvotes there are on banned members.
I wonder how that is tallied because then their words will continue to accrue upvotes which naturally leads one to ask: how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
I ask this because @Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 17:40#5585540 likes
I'm thinking I'll run it with the reputation feature turned on for a couple of weeks and then run a poll to see if you all like it. Like, do you like likes or do you dislike likes?
Hey! I can't upvote my own posts! How do you expect me to ever get any encouragement?
I'm thinking I'll run it with the reputation feature turned on for a couple of weeks and then run a poll to see if you all like it. Like, do you like likes or do you dislike likes?
There are numbers underneath our names now. I thought those were the upvotes. How did Jamalrob get 153 upvotes in two minutes? Is that something new too, or were they always there.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 19:07#5586510 likes
@jamalrob
Did you by chance miss my question?
I'm always looking for a way in... for a friend :flower:
And yes we did experiment with down votes at the old place but as suggested it was good for the rule twisters like @Hanover who is usually looking to score despite the downside risk that spooks those whose ego is more delicate in nature. :flower:
Talk to me friend
What are you seeing?
And what are you seeing as far as "break through" cases with people who were fully vaccinated?
Client who was fully vaccinated went back to New Jersey and felt ill. Went to the local Dr and was tested: Positive for Covid-19. Was then told to fly home to Arizona. The flipping Dr. told him to fly knowing his diagnosis and he did.
He got back, his Dr. confirmed positive for COVID-19 test and within 24 hrs was admitted to the hospital. Three weeks later the man passed away.
His wife is fully vaccinated and wonders how?
I try to explain but I am slim for answers.
Any chance this variatiant started East and is heading West?
It is interesting to see how many upvotes there are on banned members.
I wonder how that is tallied because then their words will continue to accrue upvotes which naturally leads one to ask: how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
I ask this because Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
Dunno, ask Hanover.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 19:27#5586790 likes
I forget who said it but a member once said that they could always get a sense of what was going on in the forum simply by reading the shout box.
True words :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 19:28#5586800 likes
Really? You are going to turn over this important of a decision to @Hanover ?
:smirk:
ArguingWAristotleTiffJune 29, 2021 at 19:29#5586810 likes
@Hanover
It is interesting to see how many upvotes there are on banned members.
I wonder how that is tallied because then their words will continue to accrue upvotes which naturally leads one to ask: how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
I ask this because Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Simple solution: let the banned buy their way back in. Added feature: let members pay to keep the banned banned. Still another feature: let members pay to get others banned. Use an auction system.
This scheme would help @jamalrob -- all of us, in fact -- establish the market value of participants, while providing an income dribble.
My guess is that we will find the market value is less than we thought it would be. Perhaps shockingly less.
I ask this because Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
As a compatriot of yours he might be able to make more sense of your question than I can :razz:
Thank you for tossing the question back to me. As a fellow American, I do believe I can better decipher the question asked, which essentially asks how much posthumous love is required to resurrect the dead. The last time such an event occurred was when Jesus died, although I don't think his resurrection was motivated by upvotes, but I never read the New Testament because, well, I'm not only American, but I'm Jewish, so I could be wrong in using the death of someone else's messiah as precedence, but that does appear to be my only authority for answering the question posed to a fellow American.
I feel I'm rambling. Let me refocus.
As a fellow American, approaching the question as I've been asked, I can only say that Jesus, who I think was well loved prior to his being raked over glass shards, was like really really missed soon after his departure, and I do think, on second thought, that it was the metaphorical upvotes (i.e. people missing his being around saying gentle kind shit) that brought him back and made him die all over again.
Like a vision it comes to me.
7. the answer is 7. You get 7 upvotes after you're banned, and then you get unbanned, but just like Jesus Almighty, you'll get banned the next day, which I think is either Christmas or Easter. One of those. I can't ever keep that gentile stuff straight.
God Bless America.
With this post, I expect many upvotes.
Mayor of SimpletonJune 29, 2021 at 21:16#5587490 likes
So basically you wish to have some sort of 'selling of indulgences'?
I suppose there's the possibility of setting up some sort of hierarchy, with @jamalrob being the acting Pope and other administrators being a College of Cardinals.
Once we have that established, then there can be decisions as to the actions for which indulgences can be granted... both partial and plenary indulgences.
What a 'unique' idea? (although somehow I believe I've seen this one before, but anyway...)
I remember we had an Unmoderated section in the previous Philosophy Forums. It did provide some entertainment, but also was some really scary shit.
I remember someone going to the trouble of writing a whole topic (a damned long and specific topic) about me and how my illusions/delusions of reality that, coupled with my horrific pseudo philosophical notions, were a grand danger to all of mankind.
Strange as it seems I never recalled having a dialogue with that chap, but I suppose I must have pressed a button or two.
Then again, the notion that I could be a grand danger to all of mankind seemed quite laughable and indeed somewhat of a compliment, so I thanked him and moved on.
Reply to T Clark You said "Christian doctrine is no more a stretch than quantum mechanics. It's just that there's no evidence for God - or string theory and the multiverse."
Now you say there is evidence for QM but no JC...?
I wish to thank @jamalrob for reinivogorating the site by putting the Shoutbox back on the main page and inserting the likes back in. Entertaining shit.
I need to go to that creative writing thread @Baden was setting up. I have some ideas that need releasing.
if you go on Amazon, which you apparently don't, there's an LGBT section on the front page with YouTube style videos.
I do go to Amazon, but it doesn't have that on my front page. It has chainsaws, shotguns, and cowboy boots. I think it designs the front page based upon what it thinks your interests will be based upon the sort of porn you watch.
So basically you wish to have some sort of 'selling of indulgences'?
Good to hear from you. Have you recently become a medievalist? Indulgences caused a lot of problems; a Martin Luther will arise and shatter our sublime unity.
We live in one big market where everything has a cash value. Much more modern than selling escapes from an alleged hell.
This is just to update everyone why we introduced the like function. If you don't manage to get at least one like a month, you will be banned for not positively contributing to our communist utopia.
Reply to Benkei Yes I forgot to mention that. In a nutshell, it's part of a TPF streamlining drive to help some members transition to other, more suitable websites. And let's stop talking about "banning"; it's "membership transitioning".
Reply to Benkei
Are you serious that if someone doesn't get any votes in a month that they will be banned. As it is, most of the members have a 0 by their name, and the site is going to become a clique. I can't even find a way of voting. It is so depressing seeing 0 next to your name. It is worse than The Eurovision Song Contest, where England scored 0 points this year. @jamarob says that he prefers not to call it banning but effectively it is.
Reply to jamalrob
It seems simply horrible and it is turning it into a popularity contest. As far as I can see it is far worse than the idea proposed of banning people on the basis of lack of arguments. If you really have to get rid of members because you have too many it would seem fairer to do it according to downvotes, because it may be that many on the site are not going to bother with voting at all.
Reply to jamalrob
So, are you planning to exit everyone who doesn't get a vote by July as that is in the next few days? It is almost the end of June and I thought that a lot of the votes are based on the old system. If you ban everyone who doesn't get a vote in the next few days there will probably only be about 50 members on the site.
Reply to Jack Cummins Sites with a small membership are often the highest in quality, I think. I just feel we need a membership cleansing to start fresh. Anyway, you're on the boat so don't worry.
Reply to jamalrob Oh, I see where this is going. I'm talking about the extinction of humankind, and the role religion and subjectivist philosophy has played by making an enemy of science. It's a difficult subject; it upsets people, and steps on a lot of toes. If you turn this site into a popularity contest, you may as well just ban me.
Reply to jamalrob
I am glad it is a joke, as it shocked the when I woke up. I had just worked out how to vote and was thinking about trying to click hearts to save people from being thrown out of the philosophy 'Big Brother house'.
?Jack Cummins Ok Jack, I'm sorry, it's just a joke. A cruel, terrible joke. I couldn't resist winding you up when you took it seriously. No bans based on likes.
Reply to counterpunch First I can confirm that nobody will be banned if they don't get enough likes. That was a joke for which @Benkei should be blamed.
Otherwise, it's possible that the "reputation system" (the name being an attempt dignify plain old likes, or indicate how they should be used) will be bad for the forum, and we turned it off in the beginning for the reason you mention. But I'd still like to try it. What's the worst that can happen?
My hope is that good contributions will be rewarded with the most likes, thus encouraging better participation. Personally, I tend to like good posts, not only those I agree with. That's the idea.
Otherwise, it's possible that the "reputation system" (the name being an attempt dignify plain old likes, or indicate how they should be used) will be bad for the forum, and we turned it off in the beginning for the reason you mention. But I'd still like to try it. What's the worst that can happen?
What's the worst that can happen? The suicide of someone who cares about "reputation" - and thought they were popular, but as it turns out, they now know for a fact they are not. They mention philosophy forums in the suicide note, and so the bereaved relatives file a law suit against you for causing emotional distress, forcing the whole forum to close down, bankrupting all the mods. Otherwise, I think it's a great idea!
This is a great argument to allow downvotes actually. Imagine the cognitive dissonance if you have a negative number.
I think it's unlikely, but Jamalrob did ask, what's the worst that could happen? I cut the bit about him being turned out of his home, and his wife and kids developing whooping cough, and dying on the streets coughing blood! I'm not a monster!!
Impressive. What's your method for falsifying stuff? I print the webpage, cut out the bit I want to keep, draw my change, scan the scrap, save to my laptop, then upload to PF.
Reply to BadenReply to Michael So few? I piss off conservatives, racists, Chinese governmental officials, US citizens and French people. But, really, fuck the French. I deserve more dislikes than this!
Same here, and I've been in a Hal Smith rabbit hole for the last 7 minutes.
I've never seen the Andy Griffith Show. Seems "Otis" was only in 32 of 274 episodes, but stole the show. Interesting, if uncontroversial guy. Lived a good life - DJ, soldier, actor, died in his sleep aged 77. I've never heard of him, but then - I don't like to peek behind the curtain!
I put a piece of paper over the computer screen, meticulously trace and colour accordingly, then take a photo of the paper, which I print out, scan and upload before correcting any differences from the oriignal with photoshop, print that, draw on it with a marker, scan again, upload, send the file to my phone by email, upload here, and presto!
We live in one big market where everything has a cash value.
Indeed...
Perhaps it's just me showing my age, but often I have the feeling we live in a world where we know the price of everything, yet the value of nothing and have no concern for what it costs in the end.
(as if that makes any sense)
Funny thing is the only reason why I checked in was I received an e-mail indicating I was mentioned in a post. It made me curious as I had deactivated all notifications. I thought the account might be hacked. It wasn't.
Even stranger is the 'likes'.
I remember when we had them earlier I asked if there was a possibility to have them deactivated if the individual did care to have them. There was an extension made by some very talented and clever person that I added to my browser, so they disappeared.
Now with the new computer I see them again. Not that it bothers me much, but I've never been a fan of pollice verso (or is it verso pollice?).
Strange how I get more likes when I'm no longer posting.
I you don't feel like having sex with people that are racially different than yourself, don't. But others might find it exiting or fun. What do you care?
Put this in Shoutbox because I think we're supposed to try and keep our smart-ass stuff out of the regular threads.
When you're done apologizing, let's have some more. :party:
Mayor of SimpletonJune 30, 2021 at 15:28#5591650 likes
Reply to Baden
Knowing my humor this is going to be a long long apology, so maybe we need to start with the red triangle with colorful parts flying off it.
Mayor of SimpletonJune 30, 2021 at 15:32#5591680 likes
Otis was the quintessential comic drunk. Back in the good old days, we thought alcoholism was funny.
Was it funny? I haven't seen it. The popularity of the character would seem to suggest it was funny. Also, we're still laughing at Homer Simpson's alcoholism. And if not him, then Barney.
Those two and Mr Burns are my idea of Amuhericans.
And do you know American's idea of the Dutch? Nothing. We know nothing about the Netherlands. We don't know any famous Dutch people. Hans Brinker I guess. Milhouse Van Houten.
Reply to T ClarkReply to frank The Netherlands, the 'nether' lands, the lowest or furthest parts of a place, especially with allusion to hell or the underworld. '[i]Nether[/I]', as in the nether parts of Europe, is also used euphemistically to refer to a person's genitals and buttocks. What the dictionary was too polite to say was "asshole of Europe".
Freud thought the Dutch were, as a group, anal-retentive. Very neat; very responsible about tending the dykes. Long straight rows of tulips, each row a different, contrasting color. Very permissive but tightly regulated. Because of the high likelihood of being suddenly immersed in salt water, the Dutch have striven to be very tall, giving them a better chance of making it to France, Germany, or Belgium when the dykes fail, as they someday must.
The Dutch are very clean, so clean a popular abrasive cleaner was named after them.
The Netherlands, the 'nether' lands, the lowest or furthest parts of a place, especially with allusion to hell or the underworld. 'Nether', as in the nether parts of Europe, is also used euphemistically to refer to a person's genitals and buttocks. What the dictionary was too polite to say was "asshole of Europe".
I think the name is more in reference to the fact that the land is low in relation to sea level, but, since the purpose of this whole discussion is to make fun of the country because Benkei made fun of ours, I'm going to go with your interpretation.
Reply to T Clark As well you should. And so should we all make fun of the Dutch. Didn't the Beach Boys have a song about that? "We'll make fun, fun, fun of the Dutch till daddy takes the pannenkoekenhuis away...
Now that we can't make fun of Asians, asian food, asian governments, or asian diseases, there is nothing else but to ridicule the Dutch.
A popular breakfast item in Dutchland is Dutch Baby--a pastry vaguely resembling infant flesh cooked in a heavy hot cast iron pan. You'll note that Asians and Africans wouldn't think of cooking "asian baby" or "African baby" pancakes.
I would also like to say that the Netherlands is my favorite country that I've visited in Europe. It's just about a tie with Germany, but that's because I can speak a bit of German and it's fun to try it out on Germans. Here's a picture of my brother eating very strong-flavored North Sea oysters on the beach in Noordwijk aan Zee.
I've learned the hard way that most people who did not grow up with Kropsua tend to find it unappealing. The key is to top it with licentious quantities of lingonberry preserves, which either makes it palatable, or even more disgusting to the "outsider". Yes, we call them outsiders in Finnish Ohio.
Did you not also partake? I do like a good oyster, raw or stewed.
I like oysters a lot, but I always eat them raw. The flavor of these oysters as compared to our Wellfleets, for example, is like the difference between a quohog (a very big clam) and a littleneck. I don't know why they are the way they are. I think they would be good in a stew, just like quohogs are good in chowder.
Freud thought the Dutch were, as a group, anal-retentive. Very neat; very responsible about tending the dykes.
Oh come on! There's no way this is an accidental Freudian slip where you actually reference Freud and then say "dyke" (a lesbian) but mean to say "dike" (a wall that is erected by seamen).
Reply to StreetlightX How rude to interrupt this elevated discussion of dutch babies with old news about D. Rumsfeld. Unless you are suggesting he is a dead dutch baby?
. I lived for 8 delightful months at South Wellfleet, at the Department of the Interior National Sea Shore site. There was a Job Corps there, where I worked. Glorious beach, and empty at the time (August to April). This back in '68/'69.
To be fair I'm not celebrating too hard because he died a natural death rather than by exsanguination or horse-drawn quartering. Either of which he deserved a few times over. Maybe they can still feed his body to pigs or something. The single good act he might ever do.
Here’s what the craziness of Donald Rumsfeld looked like in practice for the citizens of the “crappy little countries” the United States picked and threw against the wall during Rumsfeld’s years as Bush’s Secretary of Defense: a peer-reviewed study published in The Lancet, one of the world’s most prestigious medical journals, in 2006 — the year Rumsfeld left office — estimated 654,965 “excess deaths” in Iraq since the invasion in 2003. That’s 2.5 percent of the total population of the country dead as a result of the violence.
...And it leaves out one of the most gut-wrenching aspects of Rumsfeld’s time in office: his and President Bush’s open embrace of what they called “enhanced interrogation techniques,” or what any human being with a shred of conscience would simply call “torture.” Suspects illegally detained on suspicion of involvement in terrorism (or even involvement in resistance against the invasions of their countries) were tortured under Rumsfeld’s watch in Iraq and Afghanistan, in the notoriously lawless “facility” at Guantanamo Bay, and elsewhere around the world. Some of that was done under the auspices of the CIA. But much of it fell under the purview of Rumsfeld’s department of defense.
In 2006, Berlin attorney Wolfgang Kaleck filed a formal criminal complaint against Rumsfeld and several other American officials for their involvement in torture. Needless to say, Rumsfeld never had to see the inside of a courtroom in Germany or anywhere else. In that sense, and only in that sense, Donald Rumsfeld died too soon.
Your celebration of death is what's distasteful and bawdy.
Why? The death of evil people ought to be celebrated. They are joyous occasions.
"Respect for the dead", irrespective of who are what they were in life, is just a religious/formalist holdover that disrespects - in Rumsfeld's case - literally millions of others, both living and dead. Nobody owes him, or any other shit person, anything, just because they are now a decaying clump of dead cells.
I'll be totally honest with you by saying I'm not quite sure why I find it distasteful, but if it is a religious "holdover", it's correct in being so. All I know is when I see the celebration of the deaths of bad people, I can't help but notice that the celebrators are joining in on the evil acts of their hated chosen through their celebration. They're partaking in the ritual death through celebration. I find myself running away from that ritual.
celebrators are joining in on the evil acts of their hated chosen through their celebration. They're partaking in the ritual death through celebration.
Huh? No one killed Rumsfeld. There were no 'evil acts' committed. There was no 'ritual'. He died. The world is a better place as a result. That's worth celebrating.
What I'm saying is that by celebrating the death of someone who has committed atrocities including death, you are participating in that atrocity through your celebration of their death. No, it's not a "religious" position, but it could be described as a "mystical" or a "spiritual" position, sure. I assume we're done here, based on past discussions, but I'm open.
What I'm saying is that by celebrating the death of someone who has committed atrocities including death, you are participating in that atrocity through your celebration of their death.
By celebrating Rumsfeld's death I'm participating in the torture and genocide he commissioned? I'm not sure that makes any sense.
I lived for 8 delightful months at South Wellfleet, at the Department of the Interior National Sea Shore site. There was a Job Corps there, where I worked. Glorious beach, and empty at the time (August to April). This back in '68/'69.
Since you were here, the population of seals has grown dramatically because of restrictions on killing them. That would be fine, but there has also been an increase in the population of great white sharks during the summer. We stay in Dennis for two weeks in August. I avoid sharks by 1) going to the beach on the bay side where there are fewer sharks and 2) going to a bar and eating the best scallops I've ever had while my family goes to the beach.
No, it's not a "religious" position, but it could be described as a "mystical" or a "spiritual" position, sure.
I don't even think it need be seen as spiritual. Respect for the dead is simply humane, or human. It's in all cultures and expresses the basic thought that people are more than meat and bones, which is true.
Teenage radicals, fascists, and fanatics are wont to trash this tradition. That's just the way they are.
Hey, in total good faith, I'll just try one more (probably bad) approach:
By celebrating the death of a person who has made the world a worse place, you are also making the world a worse place. Why? Because you're adding negative energy on top of negative energy.
Clarky I love you, but now the tables have turned; rather than SLX killing the mood with real philosophy in the shoutbox, you're now killing the dark shoutbox mood with your lighthearted gold.
Reply to Noble Dust There's nothing inherently wrong with 'negative energy'. We discipline children with 'negative energy'. We eliminate killers with 'negative energy'. A world without 'negative energy' would be awful.
No, we discipline children by demonstrating to them what they did wrong and then implementing consequences. By "negative energy", I'm not referring to this process.
Reply to Noble Dust Yes. To which your response was that this is somehow negative... on account of the fact that it is negative. Circular reasoning begets a return to beginnings.
By celebrating the death of a person who has made the world a worse place, you are also making the world a worse place. Why? Because you're adding negative energy on top of negative energy.
Reply to Noble Dust Should we celebrate (a remembrance) the death of a good person? Can we recognise the world being worse off because they passed away?
The only reason I would withhold celebrating the death of a bad person, is because of those people left behind that were family or friends who are blameless and might mourn. There's a difference between honesty (I can still say the world is better off without Rumsfeld assuming he was still in positions of influence) and celebrating. The danger of too much respect for the dead is that their mistakes are swept under the rug.
And speaking of celebrations... Remember when they got Osama Bin Laden? Or any time, really, where one side manages to kill an enemy they tend to celebrate.
Reply to StreetlightX Clarence Darrow, famous attorney, said "'I've never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure." Note, this is usually attributed to Mark Twain.
Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Osama bin Laden, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, various and sundry others have shuffled off this mortal coil and I felt no sorrow. I saw no obligation to feel sorrow. I did in fact feel some satisfaction. Not a lot of satisfaction, because in most cases the commission of their bad actions was quite removed from their demise. Richard Nixon's death would have been more satisfying had it occurred at some cinematic moment.
Some deaths are welcome. Reinhard Heydrich, one of the more satanic Nazis, died at the hands of Czech [if I remember correctly] assassins. Probably Frau Heydrich was quite unhappy about it, but outside herself and a small Nazi circle of friends, I don't think anyone regretted his death.
There are quite a few 'evil doers' whose death would be a net gain for the world. There are billions of good people whose deaths we can mourn.
How long a jig one will dance on their graves is a matter of taste and one's sensitivity to the preferences of polite society -- something I've never quite gotten the knack of.
Reply to Bitter CrankReply to Benkei Yeah, we celebrate the deaths of narratively acceptable 'bad guys' all the time. Bin Laden was, by any measure, a small fry compared to the suffering meeted out by someone like Rumsfeld, who was an evil orders of magnitude worse than Bin Laden. Yet when this fucking war criminal carks it, people are supposed to offer some kind of respect because what? He's American with a 'respectable' establishment pedigree and didn't spend his last days in a cave somewhere? Fuck him. If there's a hell, may he rot in it for eternity.
And speaking of celebrations... Remember when they got Osama Bin Laden? Or any time, really, where one side manages to kill an enemy they tend to celebrate.
And some soldiers have been known to urinate on the corpses of the enemies they’ve brutally killed in celebration. (Sometimes far worse happens.) For many, not indicative of honorable character. Then again, for many it is.
Winston Churchill :When you have to kill a man, it costs nothing to be polite.
I like that quote. One can for example be polite about one's relief at the bad guy's demise. Don't know how celebrating the same demise can be. Hey, casting my vote here.
It's a well known magical property of the name, Donald, that it sets the owners' pants permanently on fire. In these circumstances, their death is a blessed relief to them and us both. The wisest Donalds of course always wear the kilt and live somewhere cold and wet.
Sooooooooo....Canada's on fire! As is Russia. And Australia - again! Like California was just last year! Someone should probably do something about this climate change thing! Something other than ignore it and hope it goes away!
ArguingWAristotleTiffJuly 01, 2021 at 14:05#5597060 likes
I was actually surprised by Donald Rumsfeld passing. I was impressed with his approach and stoicism in the face of doubters.
I believe he did as he was asked in serving our country and acknowledge his dedication to carrying out some unpopular actions.
For me? He deserves a graceful death for him and those who loved him. :sparkle:
The general rule is that we don't speak ill of the dead. Just as an end zone dance can be seen as gloating, dancing on someone's grave is that but much more. Nothing more can be taken from him. Move on.
We can, but the drama associated is weirdly familiar to the drama associated with the celebration of an enemy. The mania is similar.
But don't you think that's weird? So ok to celebrate and remember a good person's life but not ok to piss on the memory of someone because he was an asshole? Seems incongruent to me where I wouldn't expect it.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJuly 01, 2021 at 16:12#5597640 likes
But don't you think that's weird? So ok to celebrate and remember a good person's life but not ok to piss on the memory of someone because he was an asshole? Seems incongruent to me where I wouldn't expect it.
I remind myself that there are chapters of my life that I am not very proud of and I am trying to extend that grace to him as well.
My Mom still reminds me "That you never know what goes down behind closed doors" so becareful not to judge based solely on a person's career.
ArguingWAristotleTiffJuly 01, 2021 at 16:14#5597680 likes
Okay and I am sure he's the only one amongst the politicians of any administration that walks away wealthier than where they started.
I appreciated Rumsfelds blunt attitude in saying to the American people that you don't go to war with the army you want but with the army you have."
Tough words from someone who was on the front line and a reality check for us.
Enabling the death of 2.5% of the Iraqi population on the basis of a lie while authorizing state sponsored torture by the most brutal regime on Earth seems like the kind of thing a few good deeds don't quite make up for. Rummy's contribution to the world, among other things:
It's nice that people appreciate his 'tough words' though.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff you have a weird idea of morality. Should I care about redeeming qualities of Rumsfeld in his personal life when I have no personal relationship with him? I think not. And it's not as if whatever he does privately lessens the horrors he's caused to others.
Maybe I can donate a million to an orphanage and be really nice to my kids, that way nobody will mind if I blow up a bus full of people.... Mitigating circumstances only work if they're related to the crime.
Enabling the death of 2.5% of the Iraqi population on the basis of a lie
I would agree, that mission accomplished, the US should have gone home. But Saddam Hussein had to go. He had an eight year war with Iran costing a million lives, and as soon as the international community stopped that conflict, he invaded Kuwait. Ten years of sanctions failed to bring down the regime, and there was credible evidence he had chemical weapons. Not least, his use of chemical weapons against Iran:
Instead what happened is that when Saddam was removed, the Iraqi people went mad, turned on each other, and the US stayed in an attempt to contain the conflict - getting drawn in to the fustercluck the middle east has become. If the Iraqi people had organised elections rather than ransacking museums, the mission would have been accomplished in two weeks.
If you dance around after the witch was just killed, her sister will show up and promise revenge, and then there's a great adventure involving talking lions. It all works out.
The US stayed in an attempt to contain the conflict
...which they percipitated and maintained. If foreign aggression counts as a criteria for invasion by the US, the first country it ought to invade is itself, considering that the US is the single most agressive imperial power that has ever existed. Actually just kidding, it already has, considering the mililitarization of its cops.
Comments (61561)
Books by DT suzuki,and Shunryu suzukis "beginners mind".
Alan Watts is fun too.
Is it fun being "Michael", because I'm OK.
:flower: It spoke to your authenticity. Something that is in short supply in our current reality. That and common sense, it's not so common any more.
:flower:
I liked @S (most of the time) and miss him but he kind of chose to give us all the finger in the end. Which is fair enough but not exactly a recipe for reconciliation.
Anyways, apologies for my general madness. Carry on, I guess. 'Til whenever!
I am listening. Don't let the feeling of ambiguity give you sea legs. Grab a cold one and take a seat. The regulars will come by and entertain you if you let us. :flower:
Eh, I'd like to participate, but I must attend to other matters. It's nothing to anyone, though. All is well.
Before I leave, I should like to point out as to how much I care about the point I just made about the Sonic Youth albums, Daydream Nation and Sister. That any hipster, and there are many who do, considers for the latter to be a better album is the aesthetic equivalent of a crime against humanity. I do expect for this to be somehow rectified.
Re: Unbanning members
I think that has been done before, hasn't it ?
As to reconciliation, it's been a while since that episode, even prisoners are given a second chance.
Has S even asked to return here ?
Perhaps a probationary period ?
No bribes required...
Once, I believe.
Yes, I believe so too.
So, what does it take ?
We've banned hundreds of members and maybe one was unbanned. You can conclude from that that it takes something exceptional, maybe an immediate email of explanation concerning their behaviour combined with an apology, combined with an ackowledgement from us that we might have misinterpreted them etc. None of this applies to S.
OK. Understood.
So, no pardon or parole then...not even after a necessary period of reflection, reconsideration and change of attitude or past behaviour.
Ah well.
None of that applies in this case either to my knowledge. It's all hypothetical. But, generally speaking, we can't unban a poster under circumstances that would make it unfair not to unban hundreds of others. We have to be consistent.
That makes sense. To consider on a case-by-case basis. Good to know.
In the event I ever swear at the mods - tell y'all to fuck off - and get banned.
Best keep polishing my :halo: and send flowers :flower: and lots of love :hearts:
Sorry no money or cheque in the post.
Money Can't Buy Me Love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srwxJUXPHvE
Hmmm... let me see... I have the first $10.00 and a neighbors Rooster that is up before me and I AM the one who hangs the sun in Arizona.
Cocky little bird should be good eatin' :100:
Deal?
Are the social circles you are trying to "destroy" yours alone? Maybe passing through to another level rather than destroy the ones that no longer serve you?
I don't know as I am looking at it from here.
I do know one of my most fundemental beliefs is to not destroy in leaving, what we have built in coming together.
Thoughts?
"Suddenly your heart is pounding... Wishing secretly you were a star..."
But seriously, never heard of it so I'm guessing it's some kind of 70s hippy shit...?
The Grand Illusion by some one hit wonder band :rofl: Styx :flower:
What are your top three favorite songs (ones with lyrics) right now?
I'm out in the country now and I actually love hearing the roosters crow at daybreak, which apparently is every 30 minutes or so all day long, but what's a bird supposed to know?
Oh, and you don't eat roosters. That's not a thing.
I don't understand Europe.
The creators of the profoundly prophetic “Mr. Roboto” a one hit wonder? I think not.
Fair explanation. Now explain your affection for dancing sailors.
I suppose that you're right. To leave them without their cult pathology, order, and forms of control then. I'm just rambling on the internet of people who don't even read this. You are right, though. I should leave them well, too.
Just avoiding them is probably best, I guess. I've moved by now, anyways.
Top vid. :eyes: :party:
Show tunes rock!
Ummm I know that but @Badendidn't.
Good job :up:
I like the unintentional use of "peace" here as opposed to "piece." Nice artistic error.
Just asking you for a favorite song with lyrics would seem to be a challenge for your classical mind.
I can rest assure you that, things as they stand now, I am willing to let bygones and bygones and just kind of move on with my life now. Aside from the occasional dig in my many half-baked attempts to foster a kind of common wisdom, I just don't have too much else to say about any of this. It is always best not to leave any community as a chaotic clusterfuck that could result in either its general destruction or that of the world outside of it, and, so, do mean what I have said in that I have said my peace of them.
Ah, you mean cocks. You and your quaint little language.
I'd marry a Kardashian just so I could have a father in law with a vagina. Most people can't say that.
Coq au vin is traditionally made with cockerels. They're tough so they need to be done long, slow, and wet.
So you do eat cock. Not terribly tasty I'm told. They're really tough. A castrated cock I'm told tastes much better, as in a capon.
So this guy wrote a book how to sue governments to force them to adhere to the climate change goals by using the law against them. It's been successful in the Netherlands, they won a court case except for a shitty center-right government that doesn't do enough even though the judge ordered them to meet the promised targets.
Now their next step is to try to force Shell to do more. That will be an interesting case too, because Shell never committed to CO2 goals like many countries did by signing treaties.
What do you think about the idea and how successful do you think can it be? What if governments still don't do enough?
Not a new thread because I didn't read the book...
Yup. This is the new racism. By and large it matters little what @Zenny or @unenlightened say about anything or anyone. Our prejudices probably hurt us more than they hurt anyone else. It is the prejudices of people with power that damage those they are prejudiced against - judges, insurance brokers, Generals, CEOs clinical psychologists, policemen, prison guards, or whatever.
But now we have the spectacle of folks claiming victimhood and calling racism against powerless protesters against the prejudice of the powerful. It's such complete bollocks one really cannot find a purchase to mount any kind of rebuttal. It's a kindergarten game of "I know you are, but what am I?"
And it is unworthy of a decent discussion group.
Thr first time I heard white people say black people can't be racist i thought that was crazy double standards and the excuses and ideological justification is flat out racism.
I now many people of color (of which I am one) agree with me. And it's so ironic that these intellectuals who are white criticise people like me,when I'm defending racism against white people as being wrong.
The great thing is on the ground away from ivory towers and the media all colors races and religions mix here,and I don't feel any racism by people,police,etc.
Quoting Benkei
I was referring to your book recommendation - Revolution Justified, and in particular the blurb. I've said much the same at least a sock full of times!
"Military reports warn that impending energy problems will endanger Western society and threaten to weaken ties between states and their citizens, undermining the very foundations of democracy and the rule of law. Energy issues will also set the stage for more aggressive geopolitics and will substantially destroy the ecosystem services on which society is wholly dependent. These are but a few of the impacts that the double energy problem of climate change and oil decline have in store for us."
http://www.revolutionjustified.org/
First off, I'm not sure what a "goal" is unless it's a law that requires that businesses adhere to certain climate change regulations. Generally, a private citizen can't bring a claim against the government for not enforcing its laws, like if I tried to sue the local DA for not charging someone with a crime. The typical solution to that is to protest and bring your complaints to the streets. However, if the law specifically provides for a citizen to bring a claim for non-enforcement of a regulation, then the citizen could. For example, https://www.epa.gov/ogc/notices-intent-sue-us-environmental-protection-agency-epa
There are some other limited instances where you can file for mandamus (a court order requiring a government administrator to perform it's duty), but I would think you have to be the actual aggrieved party suffering a specific individualized harm in order to have standing, otherwise, your claim would be derivative, attempting to save society in general, which is generally not permitted.
All of this is to say, I don't think the reason that climate change laws have not been enforced through lawsuits against the government is because they (just like both of us) haven't read the book this guy wrote, but because there's no mechanism to do that.
Maybe I'm wrong though. I'll wait to hear what others think.
Quoting jamalrob
Gotta find humor where you can :rofl:
Moderation team feel free to delete :sweat:
How are you doing in the garden of Eden today?
I totally agree with you!
I try to be gentle when people do not get the correct answer. :flower:
That will be the summary of a recent thread I guess...
https://www.g7uk.org/g7-climate-and-environment-ministers-communique/
Wherein they:
"recognise the need to reduce the global level of annual GHG emissions to 25-30 Gt of carbon dioxide equivalent or lower by 2030 to put the world on track to limit global warming to 1.5°C above pre-industrial levels"
and,
"commit to submitting long-term strategies (LTSs) that set out concrete pathways to net zero GHG emissions by 2050 as soon as possible."
However they consider:
"energy efficiency as “the first fuel” to emissions reduction"
Your book also claims to:
"explain why neither the market mechanism nor today’s political model are capable of initiating an energy revolution to solve these issues."
..again implying reductions in human welfare, to reduce carbon emissions. I don't believe that's necessary, or viable long term.
Elsewhere I have suggested it is possible to drill close to magma pockets in the earth's crust, feed pipes through the hole, and pump water through very hot rocks (700'C) to produce superheated steam, to drive turbines, to produce limitless amounts of clean electricity.
Electrical energy could be converted into hydrogen by electrolysis, and either piped as a gas, or compressed into a liquid fuel, with 2.5 times the energy content of petroleum per tonne, shipped around the world in tanker ships. This then could be used in internal combustion engines, and power stations - with minimal modifications. The combination of hydrogen fuel cells and electric jet engine - would allow us to fly as much as we wish with no carbon footprint.
This source of energy is so vast, we could in addition extract carbon from the atmosphere, desalinate water to irrigate land, and recycle all our waste - again, at no carbon cost. That so, we could have a prosperous sustainable future. No need to pay more, have less, tax this and stop that.
My question is, how can I get anyone to listen to me? I write about it on this forum until I'm sick of hearing myself banging on, particularly as - between the green commies and the climate deniers, I might as well be talking to myself. What to do? Advise please.
A couple of weeks ago, I couldn't find gas around here anywhere. Maybe that's why.
All you can do is all you can do.
I want to work in her office. :party:
It was Russian hackers. But even if got an electric car, it's not like the power plant runs on something other than oil and coal, not to mention lithium battery production pollutants.
I just went through Zenny's relevant posts. He was pretty pugnacious and he got in a back and forth with more than one moderator. It's clear he pissed a bunch of people off, but I saw nothing that went over the line. Unless I'm missing something, he did nothing for which he deserved banning. I think if he had been toeing the party line instead of challenging it, he would still be a member of the forum.
There can be no substantial change within the world until there is a cultural paradigm shift wherein everyone is let to cultivate an authentic way of life. The Situationist International already liberated the world from the cult pathology of the fine arts. That more or less leaves only the music industry, literary world, and film industry.
Such an initiative within the literary world culminated within Infinite Jest, thereby making David Foster Wallace the Kirk to my Mark Vonnegut, leading to my discovery of the anonymous text, Manifesto, creation of my experimental poetry, and eventual ramblings here. The liberation from the cult pathology of intellectual class, however, will have to occur after other cultural paradigm shifts.
What Wallace's work also facilitated was the production of the films of Richard Linklater, what both got me into cinéma and led to my eventual realization that the film industry will just eventually inculcate itself out of inculcating itself by the pure virtue of that people just generally prefer not to be in any form of cult whatsoever.
I am who thought it to have discovered Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation through the Library of Congress, which is how any number of independent musicians tend to pay kind of a lot of attention to me. What I thought that I could have done was to have taken Thurston Moore up on his idea to have combined a generalized drug peace, independent culture, and common wisdom with a hip enough aesthetic to catch on as a Pop culture phenomenon. As whomever it is that was out there that was aware of these things had foreseen what could be done and, at least, thought, mistakenly, that they should be in opposition to this happening, there was just already too much out there to make it so that I could do that.
What, from all of this, such ideas have culminated in so far are the recent set of ramblings of mine.
In order to liberate the music industry from its many cult pathologies, the independent music industry is going to have to drop well enough out of the music industry at large well enough so as to find enough listeners to effectively dissolve the greater music industry. It's kind of a paradox to where not competing with the greater music industry is how to ultimately quote unquote win. If they ever don't want to have the predicament of being attempted to be brought into a hypercompetitive situation with the greater music industry, meaning if they don't want to have concern themselves with things like hostile takeovers, they, first, need to drop out, but, ultimately, just do kind of need to win, which is to say, effectively dissolve it.
Facilitating the success of the independent music industry, as absurd as it may sound, is kind of the maximal good that most people can do for the world now, at least, in terms of the liberation from the cult pathology of contemporary culture, what I have previously referred to as "the Postmodern condition". What I am suggesting is that an, in all ways, ethically run independent label becoming economically successful on bandcamp, thereby convincing independent musicians to utilize what ought to be the best website for them, is what can most effectively be done about this for the time being. That, or figuring out how to create a successful coffee shop venue that only brings in a limited amount of revenue from the occasional sale of beer. In so far that this venue is created, I think that they should exclusively sell merchandise of bands who have played there.
Anyways, not too much of this has too much to do with philosophy, though I have attempted to make all of it relatable. I just figured that I might as well fill you in on what goes on in my mind about all of this. As this is all that there was for me to do as such, there's no real reason for anyone to wonder about this for too long.
Being said, having finally liberated myself from the compulsive habit of accumulating and utilizing information, I will actually be leaving now. So long and all! Give the rest of the world my best regards!
A lot of posts in the religion topic were deleted, and personally, I thought the vicious anti-white diatribe by 180 was expressed in a way that I couldn't help enjoying. I doubt it will significantly impact the culture war.
Yes, a lot of posts were deleted, including some of mine. I have no objection to that. I think it was appropriate. But Zenny was banned. I'm sure you can see the difference.
Quoting praxis
I like 180 Proof's dives off the deep end. I even recorded one:
I guess the question is whether you would "enjoy" a similar rant about black people even if it were expressed in 180P's entertaining style.
I doubt it.
You characterize it as anti-white and politically polarizing, which seems to suggest that there’s a racial component that’s being utilized by the ‘anti-black party’. I’ve heard enough offensive rants over the last four years by pundits of the opposing party to last a lifetime.
I'm evil? Buahaha
Btw correctionist is not a word.
I will take the reputation of being a cunning linguist. :yum:
@Gizmodo
@IntEngineering
"Cause uptown funk can't give it to you..."
Completely unrelated but a comfort to my mind:
Infinity itself cannot be totally comprehended by the human mind.
:gasp: What kind of expectations did my Math teacher have of me?
The correct word is "correctionalizer."
That's the number of fraudulent votes the election "auditors" have found in Arizona.
Yeah @Benkei
~wicked grin
I am going to assume that you are making a statement seeing as there is a period at the end of your post.
May I be so bold as to ask for you to expand on your post? :flower:
The increase in suicide among those young people who got sidelined because of the COVID pandemic that could not see any purpose in living is absolutely heartbreaking. Many are young men...it is horrific to witness. :broken:
Did Time Have A Beginning? (Ethan Siegel, Forbes, Jun 2019)
(fixed a minor misunderstanding I had anyways)
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
As an antinatalist I can only applaud their courage.
I didn't realize that was an issue. Jeese.
Utter bullshit version of events. BTW, Zenny was given a warning by PM as it happens and responded with a cuss out. Anyway, just start a feedback thread in future. This is why stuff gets deleted because posters insist on putting it in the whole place. Totally unnecessary and creates pointless work for us. And then when we delete it, we're supposedly deplatforming and censoring people. Sorry, but just bugger off.
Yes, sorry you got deleted, but I deleted your posts because they were replies to an Amen post that began with a complaint about mods. Again, off-topic and came after a specific and reasonable request to keep things on-topic in the thread.
Thank Lily-white Jesus that you did delete them. :pray:
Other white celebrities include Einstein, God, and Michael Jackson. :halo:
I'm done for now if you are.
Thanks for the link.
Antinatalist =/= pro-mortalist.
Just wanted to say that. Usually stupid is farther away from me than this, but I had to hear this over a hamburger in my backyard, where her stupid words wafted about, sullying the innocent ears of my goats. Her God is a piece of shit, but I deny her God is Jesus, white or black.
What about the fact of it being a fact?
Let's debate the relevance of the color of the hare in the tortoise and hare parable.
'what's the purpoise of 'doin 'dat?
A google image search for Jesus suggests that practically no one listens to him. That does seem about right.
My favourite Jesus quote:
"Because I'm bad, I'm bad, come on (You know that I'm bad)
You know I'm bad, I'm bad, you know it (You know that I'm bad)"
Exactly
Lolol I am not sure why but that made me chuckle :lol:
Do you mean that in the positive, or negative?
Okay I got one for you: Harry Dean Stanton
Quoting Benkei
So then you are of the belief that suicide is the brave mans way in. Is that correct?
One of those unintended consequences. :broken:
Unintended maybe but unknown in advance was faining ignorance. :angry:
"Yes, I wish that for just one time you could stand inside my shoes
You'd know what a drag it is to see you…"
Not sure if your posts are dark comedy or unhinged tragedy, but whatever they may be, thanks for the well wishes.
[
Reality is often ‘you can’t make this shit up’ hilarious, and you have a beautiful sense of humor.
Into what? Hell?
Can you laugh out loud under your breath?
Haven't you been leaving for like a week?
More like 4 months. No, 10 months. No, 2 years. No, a litte more than 2 years. No, a little more than a little more than 2 years. No, a little more than a little more than a little more than 2 years.
Wish I could have guessed that song as it sounds a bit familiar :eyes:
It's crazy this thing we call "life" and I Thank you for your kind words :flower:
Our world could withstand a bit more kindness :heart:
"Picked up my bag I went lookin for a place to hide, when I saw old Carmen and the Devil standing side by side...'
Not necessarily "Hell" but rather what ever it is YOU believe happens after you are successful at committing suicide.
I believe the fundemental idea that people who decide to "run" do it for one of two reasons. They are either "running" away from something or "running" to something. I am using the word "run" but it is in the spirit of fleeing to escape their immediate situation, which can be expressed in a multitude of ways, one of which is the taking of one's life, others escape with unhealthy eating, drinking to excess. If you are unclear let me know and I will try again to explain it another way.
Please correct me as my depth of knowledge about antinatalist as it could fit in a thimble and still have room.
These kids were most likely enduring a form of ' situational' depression rather than a lifetime choice. Suggesting that with a little more time, a little more faith that there are brighter days ahead that you and I KNOW because we have lived through equal or worse in our lives and have survived.
These are kids 13 years old plus and the majority of the males we lost to this pandemic were in Highschool and first year of college.
Many of these kids had lived their entire lives focusing on the success that sports programs offer into the professional leagues and in the blink of an eye, the star they had hitched their wagon of life to went dark and they did as well.
These kids were hopeless and I can see why they felt that way. It's painful to watch and to know that there are many more to come.
:rofl: oh my yes :100:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10963/has-this-site-gotten-worse-poll
You had me worried.
It's good to have you back on the front page.
Anyone following the infrastructure bill?
I don't know why
You call someplace paradise
Kiss it goodbye"
He's the Cher of TPF.
Stop being such shitheads.
It's all in good fun, Clarky.
It's not funny at all. @thewonder is clearly troubled. You pissing on him when he's down is infuriating.
Well, so am I, but I don't pretend to be leaving the forum for attention. I guess we all have our ways of dealing with our troubledness. I thought a little ribbing would bring levity.
As the late Everett Dirksen (representative from Illinois, liberal Republican) allegedly said, "A billion here, a billion there. Before long you're talking about real money."
He also said he felt like he was between the dog and the fire plug.
Oh, I haven't tried that. Does it work?
I would have told you no, but based on the current drama I think the answer may be yes.
It's good to be back~ :flower:
Damnit what is the name
She heard about a place where people were smiling..
Don Henley
I can't wait to tell you all about it....
Ughhh.....
They watched the hazy sun sinking in the sea....
I'm literally listening to the song and cannot..
Just absorbing...
Interesting insight for me. :strong:
Veterinarians from all over the world go to Africa to dehorn rhinos so they won't get poached.
Which is what? That they're oblivious to the fact that they're in a Monty Python skit?
Eh, I'm okay. I am taking off, though. Apologies for whatever. So long everyone!
:up:
Is this some kind of millennial jargon I should be privy to but am not?
Word. Well, I appear to be drunk, so I think I'll edit this post.
Any sufficiently advanced comedy is indistinguishable from reality.
More importantly, how did his luck fare afterwards?
How things going so far now that you left?
Quoting Baden
Quoting Hanover
I don't know, I'd have to dig him up to find out.
"You can spend all your time making money
You can spend all your love making time
If it all fell to pieces tomorrow
Would you still be mine?"
While I appreciate the offer of your explanation, I might be amiss to not ask if this a belief of yours?
I'm more than willing to entertain the idea you presented and not take it as my own as Socrates taught us but, BUT I would like to suggest your explanation (theory) lands a bit on the absurd side from where I sit.
And please accept my apology for not having welcomed you to The Philosophy Forum sooner.
Welcome :flower:
The Monkees - Last Train to Clarksville.
Take it to the limit.
Yes I get the gist of it but it's alright
Sorry that you feel that way the only there is to say
Every silver lining's got a [name of song]
But you convinced me face to face
There was never a chance
Of losin' at all
I postulate the theory of stepping forward into the unknown as an alternate, although much less frequent, explanation for a suicide. I have had two patients that did not fit the traditional depression/addiction/hopeless picture presented with suicide or those who present with suicidal thoughts. Both were intelligent, well spoken and well read individuals that were very contemplative regarding death and what lies beyond. They did not present as depressed in anyway and neither had addiction issues. Both successfully committed suicide, neither left notes which were suggestive of depression or seeking escape in any way, however the notes were more presenting of someone seeking answers. They were not related and did not know each other. The sandwich analogy may seem lighthearted, however, it seems fitting. A number of patients that I have worked with over the years have been very curious about what comes next, if anything, and present as wistfully looking forward to finding out in a passive way (meaning they will find out eventually so why rush into it?).
I have read thousands of pages on various religions and theories about what comes next. The best I have been able to determine is one of two options: A) the atheists are correct, death is the final end. In which case, life is generally pointless and "do what thou wilt" is just as valid as "do unto others". or B) Death is a transition to another path forward and ongoing development. Further specifics into this development would be purely theoretical as there is, to my knowledge, no validated means to confirm any of it.
The organized religions, unless slotted into one of the fore-mentioned categories, don't really hold up to careful scrutiny. Ultimately if you have faith in the religion, you need no outside validation.
Personally, I go with option B. It provides a much better foundation when attempting to explain oddities like deja-vu. Option B also does not violate any conservation of energy laws and is therefore more supported by physics than Option A. Option A does not provide any explanation for the animating force within us, attributing such to chemistry in poorly articulated explanations which are as equally untestable as the force they are trying to explain away, leaving us to faith yet again.
Touch of Gray :flower:
Better, but there's something else which doesn't really have anything to do with anyone here.
Take care! Oh, and continue to write during your absence. It'll make the days away go faster.
Thanks! I'll try. I'm always on about writing and never really seem to get to it.
Again, goodbye all. I may be back sometime in the indeterminate and indefinite future, but will probably be offline for a while. As before, so long!
What you have presented has expanded my understanding, some of which might only be known through experience, I don't know but I am in pursuit of finding out.
As a side note and something you might enjoy:
My Mom who is now 78, was a fresh 18 year old working at a community clinic where everything used to be done.
She took a patient into a room and when it came time to listen to his heart he said my heart is on the right side. Mom said she just laughed it off not wanting to come across as rude and when she went to listen to his heart, he repeated that his heart is on the right side. She listened on the left as she was trained and she couldn't find it. She moved over to the right and just like he told her, his heart was on the right.
One of two lessons: 1) the patient knows their own body the best 2) believe that you are special enough in life to have the outliers fall into your world.
Quoting Salesian Sisters of Saint John Bosco
It does go to the retirement of the nuns, which (I suppose) arguably is noble enough (depending).
It is unkind to mock vulnerable people.
I didn't mock you. You've left and came back at least twice without me saying a thing.
People, be reasonable. There is no point whatsoever in mocking the INvulnerable. They either have servants who screen TPF entries before they approach the site, or they have thick skins. Thickened skin is actually quite affordable for everyone, given time. Sure, many vulnerable people, aged 6 through 34, haven't developed it yet, but if they were beaten more often they would have. Compared to a good spanking, the slings and arrows of outrageous mockery would be nothing at all.
I don't understand why you would ridicule vulnerable people. It is unbecoming.
Not if it is a human being you are referring to.
Humans seem to take the path of least resistance, which would have washed us back out to sea.
Now if the animals who were thrown could not make it back to the sea, then we have a reason for invention, to which man will theorize, plan, test and ultimately execute an idea.
That's where the story is left until she emerges, adds a touch of love and "it" is born.
Hence the term "Necessity is the Mother of invention".
:flower:
Maybe they could record them, so they could be replayed whenever some "otherworldly" goodwill would be needed?
Thanks! We're trying to work out the details as we speak. it may take a day or two. Certainly not interested in another politically lost election where the loser cries foul over the judge's rulings.
It should be a prize fight! But hey, if you're into ridicule for its own sake, knock yourself out :razz:
Trumpians never concede, and I predict that you never will also.
I know, that's why I'm not a dumper Trumper :razz:
The Dunning Kruger effect is not that the unskilled think they're better than the skilled. They just think they're better than they are.
And 180 is mainly skilled at aggressive persistence, so it's not even relevant.
The fundamental difference is that, like Trump clan, y’all value other shit over truth.
Indeed there is a lot of Truth to taking a good dump, no pun intended :razz:
I respectfully decline your broad brush strokes.
Good day Sir
Good day to you, Madam.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jun/01/migrant-guards-in-qatar-still-paid-under-1-an-hour-ahead-of-world-cup
Dang, can't even take a walk down the street without being seen by people in another country.
:victory:
I'm glad I watched that video. Maybe.
Whoops, I misread you as responding to @frank directly above you
Yeah, I think so. I had an internal chuckle.
Anyway, I know it's the shoutbox, but I'll just lob a few lazy throws:
Justice is a weirdly pseudo-Christian concept as far as I can tell, so if we stop applying the concept to people, I don't know what will happen in our weirdly pseudo-Christian Western world.
Might've preceded Christianity.
Nice cinematography.
Maybe.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qpbu1o-ZQAk&ab_channel=CR%27sVideoVaultsCR%27sVideoVaults
Hmm.
I think drunk me last night meant to say a lot more to enumerate that idea. Sober me might have to consult drunk me at a later time.
Interesting. Is there literature that suggests that Christianity specifically gave a messianic twist to this specific Greek concept of dik?? What about "justice" as found in ancient Judaism and any potential influence on Christianity? I don't have any answers, but I've been reading a lot on early Christianity recently, so this is at least tangential for me.
I feel like I read this in Agamben somewhere, but I couldn't tell you where exactly. Wood's Citizens to Lords has some passages on how Aquinas transforms Aristotle's notion of dik?, which might be of interest.
The Old Testament is a book about divine justice, dating back to 1450 BCE. The ancient Greeks, dating back to 700 BCE. I'd think the concept of justice would date back before it was written down, so it's probably a concept intertwined with very early evolution of human reason.Quoting StreetlightX
I don't follow how you link this to Christianity. The OT literally begins (Genesis 1:1) by positing an external creator who then goes on to pass judgment on mankind.
The messianic twist of Christianity becomes necessary to absolve mankind of its original sin, which arose from Adam and Eve's violation of the divine command not to eat from the Garden of Eden. That is, the sin occurred thousands of years prior to Jesus appearing on the scene and it was not a naturalistic sin, but a violation of a specific external command.
Do you hold your internal staff meetings standing up or sitting down? :joke:
We need a book about all things in life "divine"!
@Hanover wants divine justice
I want divine chocolate.
Anyone else wish something "divine"?
If I encounter a topic, subject, even a word that doesn't make sense or I am unfamiliar with AND it is coming from someone younger than me?
Before I go any further, I ask for a definition or the new usage of the term, mirror back what I think they are trying to say AND then I might venture into asserting a possible position.
I installed this upgrade as a result of my asking what "Tanacon" was as there was a show about something that happened at Tanacon and before the young person could answer me, a person my age asked if that is a convention of trans people?
I cringed for my whole generation who is looking to understand some things that we were not raised with or educated about.
It's no different than Doctors of Medicine who were educated before the year 2000 that have no formal education on the endocannabinoid system that is found in humans, dogs, horses and the receptors that can be utilized to treat pain.
It's not anyone's fault that one person doesn't know what the other might but we really need to give others a chance to explain or expound upon it before guessing or worse assuming we know it.
Quick assumptions have proven in the past to shut down future communications. Don't fall victim to thinking you know all there is to know.
Remain open my friends :flower:
Kinda like a reverse Pygmalion.
So the question is what coins we should invest in via crypto currency.
I say we hold $100 @ 12% interest on 90 day lock.
Then take another $100 breaking it down 4 ways and each choose their own coin for their $25, getting the fun competitive nature going through the family. The final $200 is yet to be determined.
Algorand and Polka dot are my go-to. One indian holds Ethereum and Cardano and the other is spread across many and this will be NicK's first time in.
Looking forward to seeing what we can do :starstruck:
So, now the question is what kind of getaway can we afford?
Next door? Hawaii? Australia? Local KOA?
Airbnb on Pacific Beach?
Dude, I am sorry but I just cannot find it within my perverted mind to even think about clicking the link you posted. :rofl:
It's been a long week :fire:
The OT is a series of books, and I'm genuinely curious what you mean when you say they are dated back that far - in what form? As far as I know this is hotly contested territory, unless you take it for granted that Moses wrote the books, which I'm pretty sure no one takes seriously! Open to being shown otherwise, but this claim can't be made straightforwardly like that. Espeically when it comes to a concept of justice, for which every genealogy I know begins with the Greeks.
I've been meaning to read up on concepts of Justice in Judaism, both historically and how it is perceived today, particularly by modern left wing Jews, since it seems uniquely relevant today, but I've been leaving it on the backburner.
That's hardcore justice.
I hold them in a flamingo stance to expose who's who.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Quoting frank
Maybe.
And it's Baden from downtown with the win! :cheer:
:up: Someone more organized than me ought to revive that tradition here.
Here you go: https://resources.finalsite.net › ...PDF
JEWISH VIEW OF JUSTICE – STUDY NOTES FOR JUNE 2, 2020 FROM ...
For left wing Jewish views, take a look at the Democratic Party platform.
Koheleth notes that the wicked prosper and the righteous perish (7:15). The righteous get what the wicked deserve and the wicked what the righteous deserve (8:14). But the fate of both is the same in death (9:2)
Job was righteous and blameless, and yet God is complicit in Job's suffering. When Job confronts God demanding God defend himself God does not tell him the truth about his wager with the adversary and does not claim to have acted justly or give any reason why Job had to suffer.
"I call aloud, but there is no justice."[19: 7 ]
"Here is my signature! Let the Almighty answer me! [31: 35 ]
For your sake, I'll assume this was a joke.
Not really a joke and really not an insult either to Democrats or liberal Jews. There is a constancy in worldview.
The angels fucked our women and produced giants, so God wiped them out in the flood.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Enoch
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim
But God wiped out all living things except for two or seven pair (the story is not consistent on this point) of every living thing and Noah, his wife and children.
So when you say left wing Jews, you're referencing Marxists and Marx himself?
I was just thinking of liberal Jews, using the term left wing the way it's commonly used today in the US. They do tend to be passionately Democratic.
Sure, maybe it was overkill, but that is one explanation (among many) given for its necessity. The Book of Enoch isn't in the OT canon but there are Genesis references to it. Pick and choose as you like I guess.
And yeah, there are 2 inconsistent accounts of the flood because the OT is a patchwork of at least 4 different books sewn together by an editor. https://allthatsinteresting.com/who-wrote-the-bible
It's really fascinating (not being sarcastic here) to read the explanations provided by theologians as to why these inconsistencies exist as opposed to simply admitting they are different accounts slapped together.
Richard Friedman's "Who Wrote the Bible" discusses this in detail, but covers only the Hebrew Bible. Although Stockton does not cite sources for his article, I suspect that this is one he relied on.
Quoting Hanover
To admit it would be to admit that this is all human, all too human.
I'm not going to suggest that I know anything about any specific religion or their God's reasoning behind their interpretation of history because it really doesn't matter to me.
Believe, don't believe, don't know, am willing to live my life like or not; what I want to know is when and how science fits in to the story now.
I am going aways back to listening to a radio show after the Fukushima disaster and how it was the perfect storm. I remember the person speaking harkened back to the days when "God" and his believers were the ones who were looked to for explanations of the unexplainable but now we have science. He said that the parting of the sea was likely a Tsunami and that is what caused the seeming of a part forming but only for a period of time before it would have come back with dramatic force.
Like I said, I don't know anything much about either science or other people's "God's" but I do find a bit of George Carlins' worshipping the sun in my belief only one step further in that I keep faith in Mother Nature. I am still amazed that when something bad happens people are quick to blame God when if you look closer it was likely Mother Nature acting out again.
Thinking about filling up the gas cans to run the generator in the event of a power outage either caused by nature or cryptolocked, with NicK's health we can not go without AC.
@Hanover When Atlanta was out of gasoline, how far out would you have had to have gone to get to an open hotel or gas station to refuel?
It was only a few days and you could eventually find some, but you'd have to get to around Maryland I think to be unaffected. It, like Sherman, affected the entire south.
God isn't blamed for anything. He's credited with everything. There is no evil. Did you not listen to the "maybe" story? Even @Baden is a true believer nowadays. He mindlessly says maybe to everything.
My efforts to project an image of mystical profundity appear to be failing. I blame Pfizer.
The normal sized people were also destroyed. I think there was too much sodomy going on.
A couple of things:
1. The animals were killed and I can't imagine what they did to get drowned.
2. Ain't no such thing as too much sodomy.
So you know, I pronounce the P in Pfizer.
They only wore black clothing on Sunday. The rest of the time they wore hideous prints in bright clashing colors, the better to nauseate the natives.
This is just great. Nothing I learned in history class is true. What did the Indians wear before we saved them?
Like a witch hat? Or more like the KKK?
Definitely not a KKK type hat. The classic witch's hat (a la WW of the W) was crisply conical and pointed at the top. The pilgrim's hats were more a sloppy cone, made out of non-self-supporting fabric. The buckled pilgrim hat is an anachronism -- too early, as it happens. Illustrators and printers--not knowing better--thought it looked nifty, so pilgrims got buckles on their hats. Note: the WW of the W has some mesh ribbon tied around her hat, the ends of which are flying behind her as she travels on her trusty broomstick. The old bag had no reason to tie ribbons around her hat. Modern men's hats have a band around the hat. Is this decorative, or does it help the hat hold its shape and fit?
WW of the W hat:
It helps with the PR to have that black flag of malevolence flowing behind.
For those curious as to current (albeit retro) Jewish headwear, I give you the signature shtreimel. It takes the right amount of sass to pull off, but, when done right, classic elegance.
Next, I propose we review the Dutchmaster hats, then on to the short billed caps of the street kids who yelled "Extree! Extree!" and handed out papers when a war broke out or a world series got won.
Some 700 miles from Atlanta to Maryland is what I get from Google (tossing in a couple of miles for pit stops). 700÷19 mpg=38 gallons. Hmmm 7 racing containers for Quads.. I think I can get 700 miles contained in regulation containers. However my youngest indian is concerned about storing that much fuel in a garage that has no AC which made me think I should maybe ask around first before fueling them up. 700 miles would include Nancy's land and well... Mexico might be closer and a better bet.
I saw my first DeSantis for 2024 sign on my way home. Question is: DeSantis/Trump or DeSantis/Scott for a running ticket in 2024.
Having a student who's sister campus is in Daytona, it was easy to see why they are thriving not just surviving.
Maybe story? What book is that in? I know of "And they lived happily ever after." To which I challenge as well. Whose "happily" is being spoken of here? And, AND the last part of that story "The End". The "End" of what or whom?
I'll be patiently waiting for your answer to these burning questions that keep me awake at night.
:halo:
@Baden didn't say maybe to me, he said "yes". Maybe you ruffled his feathers talking about your new four legged family members.
No, that's not me.
The maybe sorry was that Chinese video posted above.
In the end, everything will be ok. If things aren't ok, it must not be the end.
Isn't this you?
I think he's in jail. I'm not.
Without having a clue what's going on there, kudos to him for putting in the effort. :up:
...which perverts everything, declared it sex perversion if your dik? is put in the wrong places.
How wrong and how tyical of a christian to try to own justice for his faith. it is one of the main themes of the "Republic" written some 500 years BCE.
Justice was not invented, nor perfected, nor owned by Christianity. It is an outright lie that it is. Just a typical Christian blindness, "I'm the alpha and the omega" bullshit.
Who on earth said it was?
Thanks.
Courtesy is given, respect is earned. :up:
Left-wing minimally entails anti-Capitalism. Liberals and the Democratic party are not anti-Capitalists.
Oh my fucking God, this is GOLD.
That's hilarious. :D Thanks for posting. (y)
Consider this my official announcement!!
Get in line folks. I'm now taking applications for running "mates."
You'd have my vote if I the Gerrymanderers hadn't excluded people from other countries for some ridiculous reason. I assume you'll fix that when elected.
What I'll do for you is draw a district that follows the Chattahoochee River to where it dumps into the sea and then it will meander across the Atlantic to your humble abode to the cliffs where your goats roam. Problem is, with the elimination of the absentee ballot, you're going to need to vote in person at the library down the street from my house.
See you there!
Ok, just make it illegal not to wear those funny hats. Be so cool watching commuters trying to squeeze into subway carriages with UFOs on their heads. :lol:
I'll pledge 5,000,000 Iranian Rials to your campaign once you've submitted your signatures to at least one state. .
Yep, I'm the man for the job. As random thoughts occur to me, I'll let you know what else I intend to do.
@Baden did bring up a good question regarding mandated headwear. For showing such insight, I believe he will be my running "mate," which is a reference more to being my first lady than being VP.
@Benkei, as chief legal counsel, could you do me some research? This word "VP," what does it stand for and what does it mean? I'm going to need to know that should there be a debate.
I'll be running as an Independence for Scotland Party candidate. That party hasn't taken hold like I'd have like to have seen here in the US, so I'm pursuing my presidency under that banner. I'm thinking about having the US enter the EU so that we can eject Lichtenstein from everything important and finally declare it persona non grata. That place makes no fucking sense.
Thanks for the cash!
"From everything important." Like how much more exact can I be?
So here's the deal. You're job was (note the tense, which is an indication you've already been fired (which is my theme)) from being chief legal counsel. At this point, you're trying to point out that Liechtenstein is not in the EU, which is an attack on my credibility, which I hold so dear.
It is you, though, who are ridiculous. I said I was going to eject Lichtenstein, not Liechtenstein (whatever the fuck that is).
See you later Roy Lichtenstein. You're ejected!
Harold is thinking about you.
Stick a UFO on his head and he'll be fine.
:cheer:
This detail is what has you concerned? I thought maybe the the ass fire chicken wings or Scottish thing might have given you more pause. But, I do agree, there are a few small wrinkles to iron out, but we have time, having gotten a good jump on the competition with this early announcement.
VOTE FOR HANOVER - HE'S GOT YOUR GOAT!!
I will work on some more slogans.
Quoting Hanover
Everybody loves chicken and Mel Gibson but stuttering makes you sound timid and therefore incompetent. Try to avoid that, ok?
Hanover - you get the gist!
More slogans:
There's nothing unusual about cruel. So no amendment needed; the usual cruel punishment will do. (As if there were kind punishments like being forced to eat cream-cakes, unless you don't like them.)
I didn't realize I was running on a competency platform. If we're going to go in that direction, we need to talk about it some more after I kill this buzz with a few Red Bulls.
Are you sure about that?
I have never met an AMAZING politician.
Maybe you are the Unicorn we have been searching for :pray:
Neither the drugs being shuffled in while CBP is occupied, nor those seeking asylum are staying in Arizona for very long.
It's going to be 113*f on Saturday, nothing survives for long ... the crisis is getting worse my friends.
Child trafficking? For what?
If it turns out you're competent, I'll rescind my contribution offer.
Hanover will build a wall around your house. In line with past policy, you'll have to pay for it yourself.
Are you really at a loss for why people traffic children?
Arizona is the harshest environment I've ever visited. The heat, the prickly plants, the poisonous reptiles, and the desolation are a lot to deal with. I guess you guys get used to it, like I've grown used to the 100% humidity here, but I went to the Grand Canyon in the Summer and I literally fried an egg on the ranger's forehead. She was like "what the fuck are you doing," but I was too engrossed in my enjoyment of my scrambled eggs flavored with ranger hat taste to notice.
Speaking of hats, when I'm President, all national park rangers are going to wear red derby hats. Nothing else. Just red derby hats and maybe an argyle sock on their junk. Argyle is Scottish, so that will work for other reasons that make little sense. If the ranger is a female, they'll use Scotch tape to affix the argyle sock to their she-junk. Scotch Guard will be used to protect the sock from the she-moisture from the she-junk.
Wow! This post deteriorated fast.
That will be part of my program that allows people to get off scot free.
It's yours then. Under my administration, all appointments are determined by who first declares dibs. It's really only fair, sort of like when you yell "shotgun" to get the front seat.
Facial problems. Yes.
Your kind of facial I can do without. :lol:
Nodoby minds wearing pants until they don't have to.
You wear pants?
I have no idea either. It's the type of thing I say to @Hanover to confuse him. Usually works.
I think I've found the perfect VP candidate for you. From Yahoo news:
During a Tuesday hearing of the House Natural Resources Committee, Rep. Louie Gohmert seemed to float a novel idea for solving the climate crisis: changing the orbits of the Earth and moon... “I was informed by the immediate past director of NASA that they’ve found that the moon’s orbit is changing slightly and so is the Earth’s orbit around the sun. We know there’s been significant solar flare activities, and so,is there anything that the National Forest Service or BLM can do to change the course of the moon’s orbit or the Earth’s orbit around the sun? Obviously that would have profound effects on our climate.”
Also, some new slogans:
More than half the states have legalized marijuana including Arizona so it doesn't pay anymore. As far as the Methamphetamine coming across the boarder? It is coming across the boarder since the USA made the ingredients illegal to purchase without a drivers license that is recorded. So yes, we are importing Meth and Fentanyl which is illegal here as well.
Cocaine still comes in but I am pretty sure it is coming in through Miami.
But the Cartels are driven by money and right now the world understands that the trafficking of minors is the Gold Rush of 2021 on the southern border of the USA.
:rofl:
This might work.
Are you sure these slogans will fit on one of those ugly lawn signs?
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you my campaign song:
Quoting T Clark
Seems like GOATOVER is putting a lot of stock in Black Lives Matter's capacities.
I assume you know that BLM means Bureau of Land Management in this context.
Amusing repartee is the point here, is it not? Speaking of which, your lawn signs for GOATOVER need a hefty dose of brevity and a sharper edge. Some potential white voters in Georgia can read now, but subtlety will be lost on them.
No obviously so, no!
You have to be the underdog somehow, or the world will hate you.
Goats have struggled for years to get a little respect. Plus they're actually proud of the fact that they eat poison ivy. Fuck you connoisseurs.
But, on the other hand, Black Lives Matter has as good a chance of changing the moon's orbit as the Bureau of Land Management. So do Cecil the Seasick Sea Serpent, Bitter Crank, Nancy Pelosi, and my dead great grandmother.
Quoting Bitter Crank
I will stipulate that your recent posts here are "amusing repartee" if you will do the same for me.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Careful. You know how I get when someone disses my peeps.
I'm shocked that this is not on the international radar seeing as how much it mattered during the last administration. Child trafficking is the most lucrative from of international business at the border from California to Texas.
I do find it odd what a difference a year makes in the eyes of those who stand or stood up for the "inhumane" treatment of asylum seekers.
Well the nooz says the present issue has to do with a more humane approach used by Biden. He isn't shoving unaccompanied minors back into Mexico, so parents are actually paying criminals to take their kids.
This is a sign of severe social disintegration.
And there's no one to help.
These kids are being recycled and left by the smugglers when they cannot keep up.
Border ranches are finding abandoned toddlers with phone numbers written on their arms in the hopes of being reunited. There is no need to separate the families because the parents are not coming with them.
This administration is indeed handling it a different way than the last.
You know things have to be insane down there for parents to do this.
Seriously? Do you think our border patrol is saving asylum seekers daily or leaving their 911 calls unanswered?
No. The answer is always a hard no.
When it comes down to the people on the front line, they who are "we" step up.
Safety first, always. How do we control the influx of Covid-19 positive people coming in without us knowing?
Are national borders open for business? Am I able to travel from the USA to Paris without vaccination or proof of a negative COVID 19 test within days of my travel?
You may be right but I had to laugh at this
"Lara Logan, host of Fox Nation’s “Lara Logan Has No Agenda,” " :lol:
Maybe Tucker Carlson should rename his show "Tucker Carlson Is Not a Racist".
People should be respect established occupancy. BLM has been occupied by a branch of the United States Government [genuflect] for 75 years--long enough to establish permanent residency. NFL, NBC, or NPR, are not up for grabs. Just think how annoying it was when GDP replaced GNP!
Quoting T Clark
Indubitably.
One species' poisoned chalice is another's salad bar.
Have you ever heard of a Chinaberry tree? It has feathery leaves, purple flowers and highly toxic berries. None of the wildlife around eats them. I've heard it's an old fashioned ornamental that never naturalized. It just happened to be in my backyard when I bought the place.
More evidence of how nature is out to get us.
So true. I think we should change the climate. That'll teach it.
You can bring all you want, but the TPF rules state that you have to share. That also includes fried chicken and beef sandwiches.
Bring plenty, some of us will be sticking around until the have changed the moons orbit.
That reminded me of a British SciFi program from when I was last in England. They had used the moon to store all of the nuclear waste and one day it blow up. Sent the moon out of orbit and traveling into the wild empty yonder.
Dark or Milk chocolate? :yum:
Got me a cold drink today, for much the same reason! Cheers!
That's just about as stupid as Rep. Gohmert's idea. Someone should educate people about conservation of angular momentum.
Your use of the term "cheers" signifies you might be British. If that is the case, I seriously doubt what you say. It is well documented that there is no dentistry in the UK.
OK, Tiff can bring that and I'll bring the beer. When do we start?
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Don't be picky, either or better still both will do fine.
Yep, but at least you knew you were watching fiction on the television. That guy appears to have more balls than brains.
Oh Hanover, I can SO relate! I had 9 root canals before I went with total implants. As far as a badge for my finances? The same dentist did a Root canal twice and wound up pulling it at 11:00 pm on a Friday night when I was 8.5 months pregnant.
Talk about audacity to, the bastard tried to bill my dental insurance for 2 root canals and one extraction on the same tooth. Total idiot which is probably a mutual feeling after dealing with me.
Don't go to Mexico for implants and if you do, let me give you a number of a good surgeon that my USA surgeon referrs to for those insistent on traveling while getting their "work" done. :wink:
Okay I am working on the fried chicken. I ordered some eggs online that are kept in dry ice until they warm up and then hatch! I'll keep you posted on the process as soon as they arrive from Amazon!
The beef sandwiches are going to take too long to grow here in the desert so I suggest Javelina Jerky. It's not beef but it doesn't taste like chicken either, win win!
I'll work on the chocolate but until then, if you would like to join me in the tubs of grapes that need stomping before bottling it would be appreciated!
Did I forget anything?
Me? Picky? :rofl:
Oh you have no worldly idea :sweat:
I have a worse story. My dentist put me to sleep and I woke up pregnant. True story.
I was actually referred to a specialist, so I think he did it right. He had a cool microscope and all sorts of soldering iron looking things and some x-ray machine that spun around my head looking for my brain I think.
Did you get fang implants? That'd be badass.
What happens when someone dies?
We put them in a deep hole... what happens then, whatever, we don't know... we wish them good luck.
:up:
(The interviewer is a twat, unfortunately).
Is there anything you can't get from Amazon? It's wonderful. It's terrifying. I was thinking that Amazon is a lot like what Sears was back in the early 1900s. The Sears catalogue opened the world for rural America in a way similar to what the internet and Amazon have done for everyone in the early 2000s. If you read about famous country musicians up through at least the 50s, they usually got their first guitar, banjo, or fiddle from Sears.
If Tiff were picky, would she talk to any of us?
That's not really what he said. He said the dead go to the sun and they pray their troubles go away and that they eventually see them again when they die.
You're never going to get elected with a bunch of stupid truth bombs.
That invisible hurdle track got smoked.
Do you subscribe to the all Irish channel?
There are other channels... ?
:fire:
There's a whole other world out there outside Ireland. Just flip the channel and look:
I know your are not picky, I just meant that we will any kind that Ladybug brings.
And about the wine, can't you just stroll over to California and pick up a couple of bottles. I had some good stuff given to me a couple of years ago from there. Save all the work you know.
A "divine" bank account that replenishes itself would be nice.
Loloolssstttoopppllolol!
Omg that made me laugh and smile :grin:
Quoting Hanover
:naughty: Oh my, you need to meet my surgeon as he has an amazing sense of humor I just love him! NicK asked the Doctor for a "custom" set for romantic evenings and Doc gave him two thumbs up and they thought it was a GREAT idea until they looked back at me. :gasp:
They were lucky I was tied to the chair with a paper towel around my neck. :brow:
Big bright grins!
I was born and bred in Chicago and my Dad was a purchaser for Sears when the Tower opened downtown. The Sears holiday catalog was a well worn book in our house with a lot dog eared pages. Sears sold everything for the house including being able to order a house that arrived disassembled.
From Sears he went onto become Regional Manager for Carson Pirie Scott. :sparkle:
Omg I almost forgot about the Hot Red Pistachios sold in the Craftsman department.
Left the fingers red and for us girls looking to act older used the red shells for lipstick.
"I would die for you, climb the highest mountain, baby there's nothing I wouldn't do...."
I think I heard whispers of a quantum calculator...
Maybe?
If so and this is more math in disguise, I fold. :eyes:
It is the only reason I talk with you, my friends here at this table of "thinkers" and please know that I am here because I absolutely want to be.
Many of you will likely never know how much you mean to me. :heart: :heart: :heart:
Wow!
Did you learn anything from President Trump's administration? :shade:
Better yet I can have it delivered to my ranch!
Our local watering holes started drinks to go during the pandemic, delivery or pick up.
The closest one to the ranch has Prickley Pear Margaritas with sugar on the rim.
I'll get an order together, just know that these margs go down way to easy.
I am thinking we might need to borrow the neighbors burrow to carry some of this stuff out to the fire pit.
Gotcha covered!
Well for the moment I have chocolate :razz:
I reckon it must be this:
Yes. We waited for the toy section in the back. It was like pornography for us. I vividly remember the James Bond Goldfinger set with a laser table to cut 007 in half.
I learned someone can be less intelligent than their hair-piece and still become President.
I guess you could say that a lot of garbage went under that rug.
The lingerie section was early porn.
"And now the end is near, I face the final curtain..."
Mmmmmm shrimp!
Let's try for over ice but I am okay with shrimp any way! :flower:
Except from the guy who is selling "Fresh Shrimp" out of the back of his van. No so bueno :vomit:
After 1 pm everything stops moving.
You literally break a sweat just by breathing outside. The air is notebook paper dry and the sun reflection is blinding. :death:
Taken out of context I realize but for the two of you to find something pleasurable within the same catalog makes me wonder what else you might agree on.
Quoting Hanover
Quoting T Clark
T Clark speaks in metaphor, claiming the Sears toy catalog was like porn. I speak literally in that it was porn. https://www.retrospace.org/2010/12/vintage-scan-28-catalog-of-shame.html
His is worse than mine, as he says "like porn" to mean wonderful and addictive. I use the term just as an objective descriptor.
My point being that I am assured a throne in heaven, yet he is not.
Quoting Hanover
I agree with this.
Not sure exactly what they are, but I've seen women use them to extract free labor from men. Must be some kind of mesmerizer.
I can get it straight from the boat.
I think the goal is to go through all the Platonic dialogues providing novel interpretations.
If this is directed at me it shows that you are not familiar with the scholarship. Nothing I have said is a novel interpretation. I could point to those doing the work but I won't because you won't read it, or in some cases understand it if you did read it.
1. No word limits per post.
2. No links to previous posts on TPF.
Take as much time as needed between posts.
I will start the debate with an opening argument(s).
Thanks...I got busy, then the one of the moderators got busy, then 180 got busy...it's been a little crazy. Hanover is helping us out
No pressure,but I'm rooting for you!
Thanks Hanover, I went there...but it said I didn't have permission to enter any text...FYI. (?)
Or, maybe I do have the authority level but just lack the ability to navigate the system and figure it out. Both are equal possibilities.
Okay , we'll sit tight...thank you again Hanover... .
Have you decided on a moderator?
I'm deferring to the judgement of the Forum...
Does this mean no moderator?
My preference would be no moderator.
Just suggestions in the comments thread.
Mods are mainly anti religion so how is that fair?
Is @Hanover a theist?
Hiya Mystic and welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Hanover is our loving.lizatd (dragon when necessary) :flower:
Cheers!
But is he a theistic lizard?
I think there are some here who are able to judge the arguments on their own merits. But I would think a mystic would have no interest in or need for argument.
And I and others don't have faith in the mods impartiality.
You're as snotty and condescending as Bartricks without his ineffable grace and eloquence.
It is where logical argument comes to an end that Plato resorts to myths, including the myth of transcendence.
In any case, your fondness for argument seems peculiar. Do you have some motivation beyond attempting to build yourself up by tearing others down?
"The mods" and someone to moderate the debate are not the same thing.
My emunah is infinite.
Excellent! Then they mean it.
In any event, the atheism versus theism debate isn't something that is likely to be as heated as you might see in a political debate dealing with something as critical as masks versus no masks, so I think everyone will likely be well behaved.
I
Any idea on the time scale?
It's always good to have something to look forward to even if we're not around long enough to actually fulfill those goals.
I think it worked, thanks Hanover!
I was thinking - if you're a moderator, when you get elected, won't that cause a conflict of interest in philosophy-related policy?
In the event there is a conflict, I will have to decide whether to resign as President or as moderator. It will be a difficult decision.
My only other option would be to reveal my conflict to every person in the nation and have them sign a form indicating they are ok with it. It won't be that hard if I send out an email blast. My only concern is that some of the emails might get caught in the spam folder and that will cause like a 2 to 3 week delay.
You just have to tweet that you did it and then say that anyone who disagrees with you is a traitor who should be beheaded live on Fox news.
See if you can put a robot on the Supreme Court. That would be interesting.
There are no robots already on SCOTUS?
Now, now. Calm down. Time for your nap. There's a good boy...
That's what I'm talking about.
Do you know what "spangled" means exactly? Just wondering.
They usually catch return bannees. How is a mystery but Ive seen it.
No comment.
Simply maa-rvelous.
Multiple personality disorder perhaps.
I know what "spangled" means, EXACTLY, but to what degraded use it is being put by the leaking sewer pipe of corroding riff raff, I couldn't say. What are the loathsome lot doing with this blameless adjective?
So I've just set up British TV in the house in preparation for a night indoors watching the football. In some ways it's better than the fan zone, cos I'll get English-language commentary. It's not just about football though: now I can watch Gyles Brandreth on daytime TV.
A rousing rendition:
Woo hoo :party:
Come on up Sir and please bring your beautiful better half!
You know the daily grind here in AZ is accomplish as much as you can outside before 10am. 12-4 siesta feed the animals and then into the pool at sunset before dinner after 8 pm when the sun goes down. We eat in reverse in the summer having a good breakfast and a liquid, often frozen fluids for dinner :flower:
An amazing group of singers they found there. I wonder if they got paid?
Pfftttt it is beautiful don't get me wrong but dude standing up and signing the National Anthem was just done in Chicago, you just didn't not stand and sing. Period. Full stop.
It was a wonderful feeling, like finding like voices on Sunday morning but without a "God" worthy of fighting about.
I also remember that the people whom I stood with either served in the military OR had enough respect for those who stood among us, who did serve, to acknowledge that sacrifice.
Interesting as Portland's crisis response team of 56 humans resigned today. Was it because we were singing our Anthem off key?
Is there something else going on?
Why would such heroic people resign from such a position? Maybe there is no longer a need for them in Oregon.
We welcome with open arms anyone who is willing to help us with the humanitarian crisis we have at our border. :sparkle:
At least this is a warm war? :meh:
We employ some really good white hats that are amused by the challenge. :100:
What a satisfying use of words! :yum:
So the sun rises and so the sun sets...
I may be an annoying person, but I'm just one annoying person. Don't know what the situation of the others mentioned is.
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Enjoy your stay :flower:
Why the new avatar? People like consistency you know.
I am the people.
The world is perfect.
It will be when change your avatar to this:
Colonel Sanders?
These are indeed, the posts philosophy can do without, but doesn't care to.
Was a closet red, yes. Originally, Comrade Sanders, his catchphrase "Kentucky For Communism" somehow got misinterpreted and he ended up selling chicken to fat people.
Did you know that the chubby girl in the red jumper is Keir Starmer's mum?
"Spangled" isn't much used any more; it appeared in print much more commonly in the 19th century. One could say, "star-spangled sky" when describing what the Milky Way looks like. Maybe one could say "star spangled ceremony" to describe the Academy Awards show.
Another factoid. If you come to the US (and please don't), you should buy University of Kentucky hats and shirts because they say UK on them, which when you're back home will make people think you support the UK. If some guy beats the shit out of you at an Irish bar, laugh at their stupidity for not knowing you're just a Wildcat fan and don't give a fuck about the queen.
Got a bit chicken chubby in his later years but clearly the same person. :up:
People beat the shit out of me everywhere I go. Hence my self-banishment to the internets.
What is the topic? Seriously. Not a point, a question. Honestly, I see about a million topics. Which one is the officially sanctioned topic?
I don't claim to understand the Shoutbox concept, but from reading it appears to be a kind of almost anything goes stream of consciousness water cooler conversation place. This isn't a complaint, I can see value in having such a feature. I just haven't figured it out yet.
That's a site wide request. The Shoutbox indeed has no topic.
As for the rest of the site, I do hear what you're saying. The topic has to be defined somehow, and the OP is as good a definition as any. To the degree this is a problem, it tends to limit threads to the level of insight of the original poster. As example, and not meaning to belabor the point....
Imho, I made at least a credible case that the Gaza thread is not really about Gaza. I provided ample evidence, repeatedly. I grant that members thought the thread was about Gaza, and want it to be, and that majority rule is a reasonable procedure. So ok, no problem, case closed.
But the price tag is that that thread will now roll on endlessly discussing a topic that really only one member of the thread is actually sincerely interested in, the fellow who knows people in the region. But ok, it's just a thread, and this is just a forum, so this is not an existential crisis, and life goes on.
It's just odd that you could write this not realizing how weird it sounds to a readership that knows you can't read minds. Without overt evidence of trolling, we just presume here that posters enter threads they're interested in. We don't presume the ability to look into their souls and judge their deepest motivations. That would make us pretentious wankers.
The idea that you can't legitimately discuss the politics of places where you don't "know people in the region" is straight up nuts btw.
Ok, then I'm a pretentious wanker. I accept the award, and would like to thank my mom and the academy. :-)
I'm not a mind reader. I examined the evidence I could find, and reported it. The claim I made was clearly debatable, and I was entirely willing to have it challenged.
In the case of the Gaza thread, I agree that posters sincerely believed themselves to be interested in innocent victims of war in the Middle East. But that's not what the evidence points to, imho, as already stated too many times.
However, I would agree such posters are not yet ready to look any deeper than the propaganda they wish to chant, and that there's nothing I can do about that. So, ending an investigation that members aren't ready for is agreeable here.
Which is why I didn't make that claim.
I didn't say they were trolls. I said they were confused about their relationship with the topic. I do believe they sincerely think they are concerned about innocent victims in the Middle East, so I wouldn't call it trolling. I'd call it, um, maturity in progress.
Fine, and I believe you were not sincerely interested in having a serious conversation in that thread but just in disrupting it. It's just obvious to me that's the type of person you are. If you believe otherwise, you're just confused about yourself. Maturity in progress, I guess.
:lol: I don't know. You'll have to ask @Foghorn. He's the expert on everyone.
Bahahahaha. I love this.
I agree that the evidence also reveals that I'm no more interested in innocents in the Middle East than the other posters I've referenced, and already admitted that in the thread under discussion.
You're coming to your "disruption" theory from your conclusion, which you have every right to, that the stated topic of the thread was the real topic. I was attempting to look below the surface, and address what I perceived to be the real topic. It was not my intent to disrupt, but to clarify. From my point of view, I provided excessive clarity :-) and so the big guns were brought in to protect the poster's illusions about their motivations.
I'm ok with that. It's a majority rule situation. And, a property ownership situation. Rome wasn't built in a day, and young people have the right to be young.
More generally, from my perspective, disruption is the job of philosophers. Not disruption for the sake of disruption, but disruption in search of clarity.
More specifically, the job of philosophers is to explore the boundaries of whatever group consensus they find themselves in. In the case of the Gaza thread, the group consensus was that participants were interested in innocent victims in Gaza. I explored that group consensus, tested it, poked and prodded, offered an alternative theory. And was rewarded with the unpopularity which anyone engaged in prodding a group consensus must cheerfully accept as their fate.
I believe that might be Stalin. Not that there's a huge difference between the two. If I recall correctly, Stalin was one of Saddam's heroes.
I thought the avatar was humorous.
I know. I was trying to be humorous.
Oh, we are doing a great job of that. :smirk:
Goats, manatees, Elvis, political campaigns.
Yep, right on topic. :lol:
Incredible how everyone follows the instruction right?
Ah, you just got here and now your leaving. You made some interesting comment. What did they do that you want to leave?
Wallow around.
I could never do that.
Let's just say I got myself involved in a global conspiracy. And I needed this website to fix some things. Now I'm pretty confident that the lies are buried and the truth won't come out.
And I'm gonna take a long break very soon :)
It's Borat. Can't you see that?
I think Baden was suggesting that, now that we have the Shoutbox to let off steam on, we can be less rambunctious on the other threads.
Can someone tell me the movie?
Really, I never would have guessed. :rofl:
On the old PF we had a real box where everyone shouted things. It was funny sometimes to see new people using it as a search box. Some of the greatest stuff came out of that little box.
We even had the Shout bow for a while, after a typo of mine. Pretty random colored shouts.
The evidence reveals you don't give a shit and that you're clueless about others but somehow think you know. But just shut up about it now. If you try any more of this "I know you more than you know you stuff" on anyone again, you'll be deleted.
I think this one really is an improvement. But if the website wants to remain credible it has to think about virtue, morality and ethics. Covid has increased cybercriminality including white collar from Google, Apple and Microsoft. Technically they're not breaking any rules, there's just no international institute to regulate the Web.
Then there's the Chinese government who hire professionals to harass anyone who criticize them.
Or make them disappear.....
I think TPF is doing pretty good though. But there should be an option to delete your account. That's just common internet courtesy.
And please no power abuse from the moderators. Thank you
I'll delete it now. Best of luck.
What's all the hostility about? So I had a theory. And you don't agree. What's new about that? I'm cool with you not agreeing. Why can't you be as well?
Here's one case. Some of the posters being discussed appear to be in their twenties to thirties. You know, one of them specifically mentioned the age of their child. And the other one, well known to you, routinely acts like a child, a phenomena discussed countless times by members other than myself.
I'm 69, somewhere between two to three times the age of aforementioned posters. So what is so outrageous about a theory that I might, just maybe, in some cases, possibly, it could be, have a bit more insight than they do? Sure, it debatable in any particular case, I totally agree. So debate. What's with all the huffing and puffing and threats etc? Am I really THAT threatening??
If we are to argue that age is irrelevant, as aforementioned posters have done on several occasions, that's the same as stating that they don't plan on learning anything as they proceed through life. I'm sure that's not true of them, so why make the claim?
I get that being a mod is a pain in the ass because people are a pain in the ass. I have sympathy for that predicament. However, because this is a philosophy forum, we're supposed to challenge things. And my challenge is this...
In some cases you are reducing the quality of threads to the level of age 27, so that the youngsters will feel comfortable, and will be protected from learning anything too inconvenient to their delicate egos. You have every right to make that choice, and I feel that I have every right to comment on that choice.
If all of this is just too scary, well, ok, no problem. You know where the button is.
Being 69, you should have enough life experience to know that telling people you know more about what they think and why they think it than they do is not going to be received well and is much more likely to cause disruption rather than be productive. I don't know what else to tell you. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Because it's the internet not a family album.
Yes, I do get that it is not likely to be received well. Surely that's what the evidence demonstrates. Again, being unpopular is just a routine part of being a philosopher. If one wishes to try to play that role, one just has to accept the price tag of unpopularity as cheerfully as possible.
Let's move on to the larger point.
Every collection of human beings will be built around some group consensus. A group consensus is necessary for a group to unite and function etc. Most people are content to chant whatever the assumptions of their group consensus are, because they don't really care about the ideas so much as they just want to be part of a community. Ok, this is normal, and a valid part of social organization.
A problem can arise however when a group consensus is built upon some assumption which is in some way false. The chanters are unlikely to do anything about this, because their bottom line goal is inclusion in the group.
And so the valid job of philosophers is to explore the boundaries of a group consensus, kick the tires, and attempt root out that which may be false. This is never going to be a path to popularity because the majority will not be interested in having the boat rocked.
PREMISE: If people aren't yelling at the philosopher, the philosopher is not doing a very good job.
Is it "constructive" to live in illusion?
Your presuming you know others' motivations better than they do is at best amateur psychology and at worst gaslighting. It has nothing to do with philosophy.
Yes, I have an opinion, a shocking development on a philosophy forum. :-)
I provided ample evidence to support that opinion. Neither you nor the discussed thread members were willing to address and challenge that evidence, because you knew to do so would not turn out too well.
My theory is debatable. The evidence can be challenged. I'm in full agreement with all of that. I'm more than willing to engage, and maybe be shown wrong. But you're not debating or challenging, because you're smart enough to realize that's not going to work. And so, like aforementioned posters, you're hiding behind the tough guy routine.
Philosophy is a search for clarity. We're supposed to follow the evidence as best we can where ever it leads. Sometimes such a quest takes us to inconvenient places.
The way I see it, nobody is required to read my posts. Scrollbars are provided for free with every thread. I can't do anything to anybody, they can only do it to themselves.
What if my assumption that members of the referenced thread were smart enough and strong enough to handle the investigation I was attempting is actually...
... a complement to them?
You know, I could have said to myself, "these guys are far too young and weak to handle this, I'd better leave them alone".
I dunno, I just find such things interesting, the way up can turn out to be down, and down can turn out to be up, and the cycle goes round and round, and the way this sentence could turn out to be the start of a hit song, etc. :-)
Ok, I'm ready, blast me now, really let me have it!!!!
Organi-organi-nannananic banan-ananananananas.
I'm trying to fit this into a theory of consciousness.
No you didn't, you only thought you thought that, you were really thinking orgasmic bananas, orgasmi-gasmi-gaaaaaaaaaasmiiiiiiii banaaaaaaanaaaaaaaassssss!!!! :party: :party: :party:
I'm more of an apple pie person.
Quoting Foghorn
You nailed the spirit of the shout box :party:
Quoting Foghorn
Mmm I disagree with the unpopularity part of your "routine" of being a philosopher.
I like to think of us, who are blessed enough to sit at the table of "thinkers" and we have people that you speak of like @Banno and @180 Proof who prod us into places of thought that might in fact take us out of our comfort zone of thought.
But the difference is that Banno and 180 despite or rather because of the way they handle themselves in the pursuit of understanding, are extremely well loved and popular.
It's not easy but they prove it is possible :flower:
Thank you, I'm rather talented at going wildly off topic, as has already been confirmed by leading local authorities.
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Ok, no problem. Well, the way to be popular is tell folks what they want to hear. That ends any real chance of kicking the tires of a group consensus. However, such an "tell them what they want to hear" approach might be fairly labeled rational, as it's a very effective social strategy. If social success is one's priority, then ok, mission accomplished.
I don't really know the posters you mentioned, so I guess I'll have to sidestep comment on the rest of your post.
However, thanks for engaging. It's just sad though that you won't yell at me. That makes me feel like such a bad little philosopher. Why are you doing this to me???? Moderator!!! I'm being victimized!!! :-)
Sometimes a picture is just a picture.
It is true that 'a picture is just a picture' but when we think of another it involves an image, visual or otherwise. I am sure that my own is really horrible anyway, but I am trying to come across as myself. I find it more friendly when I have a picture of the person showing, but, of course, I can understand why many would rather be anonymous online.
I think you're looking for "orbanic gananas." That's much more in line with current cognitive science knowledge.
And to think, without the Shoutbox, there's be nowhere to have this "discussion."
I think mugshots are boring, unimaginative, and lacking self expression. Besides, no one wants to see my ugly mug.
I, on the other hand, am so popular because of the rays of love and sunshine I bring to the forum every day. And because fdrake made me stop calling everybody a "dick."
Aaaaah noice. Thank you, TIff.
Sure, as @Foghorn points out, it's Quoting Foghorn
But it doesn't follow that setting out to be unpopular makes one a philosopher.
Certainly agree with that.
Well that's no way to carry on a conversation.
Certainly agree with that too. :-)
Reminded me of this…
@Benkei?
I have a digital surreal resemblance avatar generator that I coded. It basically sucks out the essence of my inner being and creates a visual portrait of me.
Just shows that even my computer knows how fucked up I am.
Well, where have we heard this before.
I knew you'd want to know right away.
That’s about 100 per day. How many have you done today?
What a coincidence. My goal is to do fewer than 10,000 sit ups. I am on track to meet my goal.
Your goal is probably better than mine.
To become really good at it you need to do 10,000 hours of sit-ups.
Assuming summer is June, July, and August, that would require ~109 sit ups a day. That's excessive. Rest periods are essential for muscle growth.
So then 218 sit ups every other day.
Also excessive. That'd be more than 18 sets of 12 reps. Better to do 3-4 sets and then do other ab exercises instead.
Although I tend to just do 4 sets of 12 (slow) decline crunches every other day. The most important thing for visible abs is low body fat, so a healthy diet.
No? How about unloading 40lb bags of horse supplement down at the railroad station in 115* f?
Not just one 40 lb bag but two pallets of bags?
40 bags × 30 per pallet = 1200 lbs × 2 pallets= 2400 lbs.
Me and my best friend, today, :rofl:
1st round is on her if anyone wants to join us!
How are we supposed to believe you?
I think it's been well over a year since we saw a foot on vacation photo :roll:
"We don't need to guess because I was the one who closed it. It was closed due to your failure to provide an argument to support your proposition that atheism is illogical despite the insistence of the person you were debating. I closed it when you finally stopped responding to his requests."
Incorrect. 180 said god was, and I quote "Whatever". So he was not able to make his premise valid or sound, therefore, his belief was not logical.
I also don't understand why this thread was needed to pick up where you and 180 left off, considering I left the thread open for two additional days (at 180's request actually) for you to respond and you didn't. As it appears, you were given the floor, with all others specifically excluded, to make your case, but when directly challenged, you quit speaking, had the lights turned off and the thread closed, and then opened up another thread in which to hold court.
Because we gave ourselves an unlimited time to respond. (Weekends are a busy time for all of us.)And you took no exceptions to the rules when you opened it. So you arbitrarily closed it, sorry.
say this with some annoyance because I do have other things to do than accommodate requests from posters and have my time wasted. I'm sure many others would have taken the special consideration they were provided more conscientiously, as opposed to your flippant response and now this thread.
In any event, you, more than any one else, has been afforded adequate opportunity to state all that you wished to state on this subject, so you should have no objection to it being closed.
[b]I can't help that you are annoyed. You did not respect (or honor) our agreement, so if anything, I'm the one who should be annoyed.
You've taken this personally.[/b]
Einstein’s grudge, no doubt.
:100:
I know. Seems politics & religion folks get their panties all up in a big gooey ball.
Not sure why :razz:
Your last post stated, "Okay great!
All right folks we've conceded to an even score in round 1; stay tuned for round two!"
You had declared a draw and then quit responding. I then asked for some response, and then nothing.
I'm under no obligation to do anything other than be reasonable, and keeping the debate open forever is not a reasonable request, nor is it unreasonable for me to interpret your nonresponse as a request that you be provided additional time.
Quoting praxis
I'm not an atheist.
I’m pretty sure that if you disagree with anything 3017 says you must have a grudge of some kind, whether it be Einsteinian, Dennettian… I don’t think it matters. The point is you’re irrational and he, God help us, is the voice of reason.
[b][/I said great because we were going to round two.b]
Quoting Hanover
Yep, and round two consisted of attacking the definition standard.
Quoting Hanover
Incorrect. We agreed on an unlimited time to respond. You did not honor the agreement. For whatever reason, your moderation was arbitrary. Look, I don't get pleasure on calling people out, but I'm standing-up for the truth here, sorry dude. You're a good guy and all, you just got it wrong there.
There's no grudge other than being forced to waste my time, but I don't care if the atheist or the theist wins the debate. I'm pretty sure the winner of the atheist/theist debate here at TPF won't actually prove anything other than who the better debater is, but the respective positions will be argued for eternity.
The debate, to the extent there was one, had run it's course and so it was closed. Its closure resulted in no harm to anyone or anything in the universe because it was nonsense. Your apology is part of the absurdity that characterizes this entire episode.
:100:
Quoting 3017amen
So, @3017amen was going to prove that disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God/gods is illogical. But then, well, that was kind of anticlimactic. :meh:
The existential claims are usually moreso verifiable than falsifiable, so, absent good verification, yo might wonder: why express such certainty in the first place (after all, we're not just talking alien abductions here). In particular if knowledge of God/gods is supposed to be the most important, and the supposed almighties have really important stuff to tell everyone, and they still don't show up or are shown.
This looks like a good summary:
Quoting 180 Proof
@3017amen, you could just present your (alleged) proof in a fresh opening post. Presumably you don't need @180 Proof or anyone else to do that? Then we'll see, yes?
Sounds like a subjective truth :razz:
Actually, I think it might be much worse; it sounds arbitrary and capricious :chin:
It's wallowsome.
DO I HAVE TO USE ALL CAPS IN THE SHOUTBOX?
:up:
Locust bread tastes a bit like shrimp too.
These tasties are marked down, if you can believe it.
I've eaten insects in America. They were baked into cookies, so they tasted like cookies.
I've eaten cookies. They also tasted like cookies. Coincidence?
I've eaten cookies that don't taste like cookies. They're the ones I made and I don't know how to bake. There are no coincidences.
What is brown and sticky?
A stick.
You were tricked. It was actually a transsexual prostitute. Gotta be careful in Thailand.
...in other news:
"Plans for the UK's first deep coal mine in decades will go ahead after the government decided not to intervene."
They don't truly accept and believe climate change is real. It belongs to an understanding of reality - foreign and inimical to the religious, political and economic, ideological (mis)conception of reality from which they draw their identities and purposes. Deep down, the record skips - and the science doesn't stick, and that's because philosophy has been undermining the truth value of science for 400 years - and continues to do so.
It's sad that the philosophy, politics, economics - and dare I say it, religion of science as truth was not developed. Instead, 400 years of subjectivist navel gazing to protect the Church, while government and industry used science as a tool, without regard to science as an understanding of reality - careless as to the externalities of an ideological justifying rationale. And they're still doing it.
So we're doomed. I tried, but - sorry. There's something wrong with you. You have ideological psychosis, and it's terminal. There's nothing I can do.
I'm not asking for a run, race, charge or even a rush. A simple saunter over will be more than the people who were around me and my girlfriend could muster.
They had the time to come over and tell us how we had the tie down straps on backwards, which we were very Thankful for and said as much.
But as her and I were putting on the last tie down, I had one foot on the trailer fender outside of the trailer and the other one a half foot down on the trailer bed. Warned I was tossing the hook over the top of the pallet and I landed the hook on the otherside perfectly. :100:
And when I heard the "ting" that it landed on the other side, I realized that the force it took for me to get the hook over was now having an equal and opposite reaction. I had milliseconds to think about the best part of my body to absorb this fall.
I needed to protect my head and tucked it and realized once I was on the ground I was not going to feel as good as I did in that millisecond. My left elbow, shoulder and knee took the brunt of the fall.
My girlfriend couldn't see what happened because she was on the other side of the trailer standing back waiting for the hook but the men who told us about our error yelled to her "She lost her balance." AND that was it. Period. Full stop.
I couldn't get up because of the gash in my knee bleeding, my elbow bleeding with blacktop in it and I couldn't breathe easily. She came over and was like you have to get off the pavement. I tried but I just couldn't get out of the crunch position.
I finally crawl up her body and she gets me 4 feet and I can't handle it. It takes forever to get me into the cab of her truck and she takes me to the hospital. They staple my knee closed after doing a CT scan to make sure I didn't slice my spleen. I have a nondisplaced fracture of the left 5th rib.
Nothing they can do but pain meds and time.
I'm 12 years Opiate free so I don't allow myself to have access to them outside of the hospital so Advil, ice, Lidocaine patches for my rib and an imobilizer for my left leg.
Parting gift: a plastic bubble machine that I am supposed to use to not get Pneumonia and to make sure the fracture doesn't turn inward.
And the nurse said because I was special that I was getting an extra gift and snaps a wristband on tight, shows it to my son before me, to which he Thanked the nurse and then showed me.
A neon yellow bracelet with "FALL RISK" written in black that she wants to see on me when I get my staples taken out 10 days from Monday.
Until then I can't go swimming, drive our stick shift, cough or laugh without splinting my chest from pain. Grrrrr
I did learn a couple of things from this experience, one of which is a new use for Saran wrap. They want me to wrap my knee with it when I shower.
Good times, good times :flower:
That sounds awful sexist to run to the aid of a woman. I'll have no part of it.
Blame it on capitalism then. I'm done. Have less and pay more until you're all communists; and when you have absolute power, let's see how long you can resist the genocide solution. Don't even try for a scientifically and technologically feasible prosperous and sustainable future - if that requires acknowledging science isn't just a tool, but is actually an understanding of reality you should have valued, but instead, besmirched for four centuries!
Best I can do is a concerned "are you alright, love?"
Now don't laugh...
When I see lovers' names carved in a tree, I don't think it's sweet. I just think it's surprising how many people bring a knife on a date.
:naughty:
Yes, indeed! Fractured ribs, displaced or not, are very painful. I cracked several 3 years ago bicycling in the snow -- the wheels slipped sideways and down I went. Not content to walk the rest of the short way home I got back on and fell twice more. The pain, interestingly, did not begin for several days. When it did, it was quite spectacular.
Question: How is a lidocaine patch (mine was a very big patch) supposed to affect injured tissue that is maybe a centimeter below the patch? I asked the ER nurse; "Good question" she said. Anyway, it didn't help. Ibuprofen worked.
The other day I dropped my cane in Target and a nice young man rushed over to pick it up. Slightly humiliating. Old people, like old trees, old barns, old outhouses, fall down. I'm a fall risk. There is something about the impact of a fall (off the trailer, down a couple of steps, backing up against a box in the basement, stumbling on the sidewalk...) that makes it difficult to get up instantly -- it takes the older brain a little more time to complete the survey of all the various systems. Systems Check: green, green, green, orange but not essential, green, green, red and essential; hmmm, that could be a problem. You know you're in serious trouble when you no longer care that somebody will see you lying in a heap.
I'm not sure opioids are all that effective for some kinds of pain. I had oxycodone after surgery last year and it did help, but that was a steady pain. After 10 days I didn't need it. Fractured rib pain seemed to be more periodic and 'stabbing', rather than sustained pain.
I now better understand why our old dog stopped laying down on the couch and just collapsed on the couch.
Saran Wrap. Fine product, has many uses. Saran Wrap was briefly promoted as a safe sex device back in the 1980s, until it was discovered that people were dying from suffocation after inhaling the flimsy film. Just tragic.
This is the kind of insightful observation that sustains The Philosophy Forum.
Sounds familiar. I probably shouldn't be skateboarding at my age. :grimace:
Jaysus. I had 4 broken ribs one time. I got through with ibuprofen, but like 800 mg at a time? Does that sound right?
I'd have taken your abandoned cane.
Stowing stars and tucking dippers in the glove compartment of your bigger, slower tow truck goes far until you slip and get stuck in some grotesque muck. Fuck. Now the department throws a hipper trucker a buck and you're out of luck and feeling low.
If I could get the bitch to come on a date to the woods, I wouldn't be doing woodcarving.
Can you do a series of surrealists paintings of a guy whose head exploded and he goes to sea? the hole gets darker and darker and he eventually puts a soccer ball in it with a face painted on it.
A spaceship from Mintaka.
That's not the problem. The problem isn't science, it's the connection between science and action. That's politics and it get's mixed up with corporate influence. That's the problem. That's how things work and how they've always worked. In this particular case, climate change. I think the good guys are doing surprisingly well.
Are you and @Noble Dust saying that it's tow trucks all the way down?
Ultimately, our relationship to science is a philosophical question. Philosophy informs politics, which - in turn creates a legislative framework within which capitalism operates. Those keen to blame everything on capitalism are missing something far more fundamental; basically, that the crisis of existence we face is a consequence of applying the wrong technologies.
That occurred because we used science as a tool without recognising a scientific understanding of reality as an instruction manual for use of those tools. Correcting this mistake is key to sustaining capitalism. Hence, capitalism is not the problem.
It's capitalism operating within a legislative framework, designed by political institutions, informed by philosophies that are wrong. 400 years of subjectivist soul gazing; from Descartes cogito - through to post modern rejection of universalist ideas of objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, science, language, and social progress. That's the problem.
I suggest that you work through whatever that's about with a good therapist. A painter can really only express their own psychosis.
There's always a smaller tow truck.
haven't you ever heard of mass hysteria?
Tldr
Dump trucks tend to hump other unsuspecting trucks in the truck rump, but more often than not, they trip on their dumb dump kicks and flip. Harold in that photo is an example.
You and I see things differently.
Funny. That's what she said about you.
I've been kind of obsessed with this subject for many years, so - sure, differently! You could say that. What I'd say though is - this is wrong:
Ministers 'should urge public to eat less meat'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57580254
and this is right:
Climate change: Large-scale CO2 removal facility set for Scotland
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-57588248
Climate change is a supply side problem, treated like a demand side problem - and this too is a philosophical issue dating back to Malthus, Essay on Population, 1798. Malthus was wrong; yet his essay continues to inform a left wing green policy agenda.
Taxing meat to reduce demand will harm poor consumers - to say nothing of farmers. I cannot understand, morally speaking - how the left endorse such a policy approach - for it would certainly exacerbate inequality. Presumably, harming the poor is worth it, to make an anti-capitalist battering ram of sustainability.
I would sustain capitalism with limitless clean energy from magma, and extract carbon from the atmosphere, desalinate, irrigate, recycle. In my future, you wouldn't even have a carbon footprint!
Yes. You and I have had this conversation before.
Rape and slavery analogies never miss the mark.
It does seem abusive though what's going on with her, but maybe she's bouncing off the walls crazazy. She said she was required to have an IUD by the court, which is shocking.
I'll join the Free Britney movement with you.
And I thank you for being there, if just to bounce my ideas off. I go nuts if I don't talk about it. Shouting at passing traffic crazy. I think maybe, if you could see the opportunity forgone, you too would be incensed. I've always been into science, and I studied politics - and got into philosophy via political theory. I'm surprised philosophy isn't more interested in the question of our continued existence, or not! And if so, how? It would seem to me a logical juxtaposition of concepts, such that the million monkeys here - were bound to stumble blindly upon it eventually! This is the question of our time; and I think it comes down to this: do we deserve to exist?
[quote=The Moscow Times]A group of Russian pensioners known as “Putin’s Troops” has come out in defense of Britney Spears in the midst of her court battle against an “abusive” guardianship.
The babushkas — whose rants against the Russian president’s enemies often go viral online — praised the American pop star for “finally expressing her desire to be a human and not a slave.”[/quote]
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2021/06/24/free-britney-pro-putin-babushkas-demand-a74334
Yeah, I was rather livid when I read it so poor choice of words. But if crack whores can have multiple kids... It's just so alien to me that a conservator can order this and that the system goes along with it. Can the parents in the US order a spiral to be placed in their minor child? Probably not, I suspect? So what makes a conservator able to?
In effect, we have disproved spirituality, and now we're all ...meh! In face of the existential threat of climate change, we don't care. The application of technology is weak and inefficient, as if to prove sacrifice is necessary to sustainability - sacrifices people will be unprepared to make. Do you even want humankind to survive? I think it's a reasonable question.
At least religionists have some rightful sense of awe and wonder at the very fact of our existence - that sadly, they divorced from what might have been science as valid knowledge of Creation. That was a mistake, I think leads to this jaded view of humanity - that would be the polar opposite had science been welcomed as valid knowledge of Creation, and pursued and integrated on an ongoing basis for the past 400 years, it could have occurred as proof of divine beneficence - and been applied rationally to secure a prosperous sustainable world.
We are surrounded by technological miracles we take wholly for granted. We apply technology piecemeal, as the politics and economics dictates, when we could harness the inherent functionality of a scientific understanding of reality, and make a paradise of the world if we'd just accept science is true and act accordingly; the functional spill-over will be profoundly beneficial. If it's is true that it is scientifically and technologically possible to secure a sustainable future, we are morally obliged to seek such an outcome; and the people living in that world, those people would claim that they deserve to exist!
We live in the worst of both worlds; having lost our spirituality, and gained only a half assed sub optimal if not downright dangerous misapplication of technologies. It's no wonder you don't care. All I can tell you is, it wasn't meant to be like this.
Why don't you start a thread about how science proves capitalism is the right organisational structure for society?
That's not a claim I would make because at its heart is a naturalistic fallacy; that because something is true in nature, it ought to be to be so. And that's assuming a naïve socio-biological analogy between evolution and capitalism is valid - whereas, in fact 'survival of the fittest' is an impoverished view of evolution, and nowhere does capitalism operate as an entirely free market. So not that; but I suppose I could start a thread about what I am actually saying. I'll give it some thought.
Whatever spirituality is. It's a tough term to nail down. I'm never certain what people mean by it.
For whom are you speaking? When you or I say "people have lost their spirituality" are we speaking for ourselves? Are we speaking of those people who never had a spiritual life; or of people who had, but lost their sense of the spiritual?
I readily grant that the society we have lived in for at least the last century is alienating. But is it technology, per se that is alienating or is it more the large scale of society and its intensive management and manipulation of our lives (which technology, of course, aids and abets)?
I do not blame science. Just because Darwin showed that life is far older than the biblical calculation of 6,923 years, or that we are pretty closely related to Chimpanzees; just because it has been shown that the universe is far bigger than we thought and began with "the Big Bang" is no reason--in itself--to be less spiritual. Many chimp-related, Big Bang believing folk are still spiritually engaged.
So who is to blame?
There are several "culprits" some of which are--perhaps a surprising nomination--religious organizations. Not all, but a lot of them have retreated into a rigid, conservative, last-ditch defensive stance. They are too out of sync with the real world to address it meaningfully. Some others exist in some sort of la-la land--the passive lukewarm wishy-washy, neither fish nor fowl.
Secularism and mass society is another "culprit", cause, or agent of alienation. Secularism and mass society go together. It takes a lot of heavy 'secular' organization and management for diverse mass societies to flourish. The previous world of small communities, close kinship, widely shared traditions, and comforting spirituality and so forth are ripped apart.
Secular, mass societies can alienate, but they also provide new forms and opportunities for engagement, belonging, meaning, and yes--spirituality (but not like 'the old time religion').
I don't mean to sound Pollyanna-ish. A secular mass industrial society on the verge of killing itself off isn't eligible for a resounding vote of confidence. It's just that the society we live in -- mass, techno, secular, go-go -- isn't all bad.
Good post, although I'd like to point out it is neither bitter nor cranky.
I don't mean to sound critical; except of our relationship to science - for which I'm merely pointing out the evidence, and the consequences. I wouldn't presume to define spirituality, but I would question the supposed cold nihilistic materiality of science.
Given a scientific understanding of reality, we are not ill favoured; and if we applied the right technologies we could live well, far into the indefinite future. How is that not a spiritual matter? I think the stark dichotomy between science and spirituality is a mistake, with far reaching consequences - not least, a misapplication of technologies that brings us to the brink of extinction.
In the past few years climate change is big news, and the ground seems to be shifting, but I would argue that we haven't really learnt the lesson; even if we now acknowledge the bare fact of climate change, the choice of technologies we apply, and don't apply - is still dictated primarily by ideological priorities.
Consequently, the wrong technologies are still being applied, and are not adequate to the challenge we face because we haven't understood that science is a valid understanding of reality we need to act responsibly with regard to, or become extinct. How is science not the word of God? Causality is a verdict on the validity of our understanding; and the other side of that same coin, is accepting science as truth and acting accordingly, we could secure a prosperous and sustainable future, and exist for a long time in the universe.
Here's the most I could find on her story: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.refinery29.com/amp/en-us/2021/06/10544132/britney-spears-forced-iud-conservatorship
We have so little of the story, including how much of her statements were true, what she might have consented to to avoid full comimital, if she's on medication that might cause birth defects so birth control is required, whether she's dangerously violent, whether she's schizophrenic, etc. These matters are obviously kept confidential, which means the other side can't freely respond publicly. It's possible what we heard were the rantings of someone deeply troubled and entirely inaccurate.
I'm not saying injustice doesn't happen, but, as presented, the allegations claim basic human rights violations so extreme I'm not willing to entertain them until the full story is revealed, which may be never. I have one side of the story and it's from someone a judge, following a hearing on all the evidence, has declared mentally incompetent.
Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our urgent need, or death--whichever comes first. And help these people get the tub painted.
I don't care if it rains or freezes
Long as I've got my plastic Jesus
Sitting on the dashboard of my car.
Comes in colors, pink and pleasant
Glows in the dark cuz it's irredescent
take it with you when you travel far.
Get yourself a sweet madonna dressed in rhinestones
sitting on a pedestal of abalone shell;
Going 90 I aint scary
Cuz I got the Virgin Mary
assuring me that I won't go to hell.
Either that, or the average age of those joining the Church! I suppose it's all related - I mean, someone either had to dig a hole six feet deep to bury that tub taps first, or cut a tub in half ??? Them old nuns are tough, but either way, that's young man's work!
If it is your claim that spirituality is alive and well, I'm not going to argue - but, still - I think that science is disenchanting, while not quite displacing religion altogether, and it's the worst possible compromise between those two bodies of knowledge.
Science is deprived of the authority to direct the application of technology, while religion - with that spiritual sense of awe and wonder, loses ground as knowledge advances. How are we unimpressed by valid knowledge of Creation? It's a mistake!
You'd only be arguing with yourself. How would you prove to someone of faith they have none?
My faith is so strong, when it drags, I have faith that is exactly where it ought to be for the fulfillment of my purpose. Should I find myself completely without hope, rejecting all sense of higher power of any sort, how my heart will soar with the faith I am as I should be, perfectly placed for the purpose of my creation. The most soul crushing moments are invigorating, elevating.
@Bitter Crank
Where exactly is the end of the line of the confessional you two are waiting on because it's going to be a while :razz:
Take a number? Something like that?
Oh and since when did we decide to go back to church? :sparkle:
@frank
Got a staple remover my friend? :scream:
And in the Autumn comes Goat Taco Tuesdays? :eyes:
Now? Now? As if!
Do you know what the patients gained in addition to the addiction that the Doctors got kickbacks for?
We addicts (God willing recovering) will not be allowed to have pain relief the next time something serious goes wrong and we are hospitalized. Sure they are going to administer the necessary in an Emergency but none gets to come home after discharge. And let me end this rant by saying it's NOT because pain control wasn't offered but because I refuse to feed that dragon that lays slain in the corner but never dies.
Great flipping job Docs :up:
I live in the suburbs. We aren't zoned for Jesus.
I think you missed the point of my argument - and furthermore, suspect this is entirely deliberate!!!
Yes, I keep looking at the picture representing Banno and feel a bit puzzled too. Perhaps it is his girlfriend, daughter or Banno's inner female side.
OK, while I admit to being more than a little surprised by this revelation. I am sure that you must have the evidence to back up your claim.
Please share it with us, this has just got to be a News Of The World worthy story. :rofl:
You need to sharpen your research skills :wink:
So, are you saying that the picture is Banno?
:zip:
Banno has a new icon. Take a look.
Spawn of Banno, maybe.
Quoting T Clark
It's a catchy tune, and Thompson's performance is masterly, but the lyrics sound outright weird coming from a bearded middle-aged man.
Some aspects of Britney's life story are very sad and make me so angry, it's stories like these that should serve to remind us that we're not nearly as advanced a society as many like to think. The other interesting thing about it is how these really pathetic articles from predatory tabloids that search for misleading and compromising pictures and stories gets commented on by comedians, celebrities, news media and the like and becomes fact. "Everyone says/knows" is such a dangerous justification.
And then the with guardianship/custodianship, I've heard of horror stories before but it's something one can only be so desensitised to. The circumstances are too absurd for fiction, but it's the world we live in, apparently.
https://www.youtube.com/c/DeepDiveProductions/videos
Very thorough documentary on these topics can be found here that I recommend for any interested.
Where do I stand? I am pretty much a non-believer. Religion has been a long-time interest, and I like liturgical worship and solid protestant hymn singing. For me, occasionally attending church is a "spiritual entertainment", a guilty pleasure, rather than an exercise in faith.
What I am arguing (in a serious vein, never mind bathtub Mary and plastic Jesus, is that a large percentage of the population have a living spirituality. They pray, they tithe, they think about what God expects of them (per Micah 6:8, the Sermon on the Mount, et cetera), they do good works, they have faith. They are not a majority in Western countries
How many people fit this description? Pew Research surveys of religiosity show varying levels among different groups -- as one would expect. I'll make a very rough estimate that 30% of Americans are religious, and experience spirituality in their daily lives. It's lower among Europeans, higher elsewhere. Of the 70% who are not actively religious, they are by no means all atheists or agnostics. Many of the 70% hold a hash of left-over beliefs and practices. Sixty million adults out of 200 million is a substantial number; so are one hundred fifty million adults who are not.
Quoting counterpunch
Absolutely! Science and technology are disenchanting. You are on the mark in seeing a very bad compromise between science and religion and many people straddle the fence uncomfortably. It will take humankind quite a bit of time to work through this muddle.
Resolution does not involve a re-enchantment, but recognizing the great depth of meaning in science. "Science" is another word corrupted by application. Discovering DNA was magnificent. Making corn plants resistant to RoundUp, not.
I think Thompson is aware of that and intends it.
EVERYTHING harms poor consumers. That's the trouble with being poor.
I think it's corporate finance that is disenchanting. For profit makers, the only justification for action is making money. Spending money for enchantment, spirituality, even beauty is meaningless to them.
You guys know this is very old news? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disenchantment
Speaking of food, faith, and proof for the existence of God, how did they come up with tiramusu? I get how pound cake could be stumbled upon with its basic ingredients, but I'm to think some guy looked in the fridge and pantry and saw some lady fingers, some espresso, rum, cocoa, and some mascarpone cheese (wtf is that anyway?) and he didn't say "gonna go out, not shit here to eat tonight," but he instead created that heavenly concoction that seems like it was squeezed from the teats of God herself?
And you guys talk of having lost your faith? It's like you're watching the Red Sea part and saying "not sure yet if there's someone up above helping me out." Does not tiramasu prove all that needs proof?
Thanks for your post(s) - I didn't respond because I took the day off, for no particular reason, and read an article about the incorporation of mitochondria by early cells, enabling them to produce energy internally. Amazing!
Your post immediately puts me in mind of the contrast between the US and much of Europe with regard to religion; that you have a constitutional separation of powers - that ironically, promoted religion in the social sphere, more so than in Europe where connections between Church and state are more traditional, I think we are more philosophically secular.
I'm British, and there was some jam and Jerusalem style mild Christianity in my upbringing - I didn't think myself much affected by until, in my early twenties, I began to audit the accumulated contents of my head, and found that religion is everywhere; it underlies so much of our culture and psychology, the calendar, language, sayings - it's ubiquitous, and I wanted to see beyond it.
I was atheist and angry for a long time; but ultimately, had to concede that, because I had come to value rationality and scientific method, then rightfully I must acknowledge that I don't know if God exists. Science doesn't rule out the existence of God. And the individual theist isn't the origin of the idea; so doesn't bear the burden of proof. God occurs in the course of evolutionary development, and serves a critical political purpose as the authority for social morality and law for thousands of years. It's important, but still, our relationship to science is a mistake that now threatens our existence! Understanding that is key to the future, because, given a scientific understanding of reality - it is technologically possible to survive and prosper long term.
Currently, we are swimming against the ideological tide fighting climate change. Measures to reduce energy use and consumption are inimical to our ideological interests, they are politically difficult, expensive - and for no tangible benefit. We must identify the key log, transcend the log jammed equation, escape the impending bottleneck - and it is technologically possible, but requires adopting science as a common rationale for the application of technology, and on that basis, first harnessing limitless clean energy from magma.
But people can't see it - whether they are spiritually active or not, religious conceptualisation is ubiquitous, and accepted consciously or unexamined - excludes science as an understanding of reality, and so excludes the possibility of applying the right technologies to overcome climate change and prosper long term.
My understanding is that having orgasms is why Adam and Eve were kicked out. Now that's what I call a tree of knowledge.
Welcome back :flower:
:lol:
Blegh.
Yes, that's true. But remember, you don't have to.
https://www.foxnews.com/sports/french-authorities-investigation-tour-de-france-spectator-pileup
That's not the interesting part. The interesting part is that she'll be charged with "unintentional short-term injury through a manifestly deliberate breach of a duty of safety or care." Like how did they know that they'd one day need such a specific law?
Not with fleishig. That'd be treif. Duh.
They haven't let any Australian TV shows in the US since "The Almighty Johnsons."
We haven't finished annexing NZ yet. Home and Away, like Foster's Larger, was a joke played on those Pommy Bastards; not stuff we watch, or drink.
But if you did, it would be delicious probably.
It's so disappointing to see that it's just you every time when I first glance at your avatar.
Perhaps it was an ad for her bicycle repair business? Or a particular brand of sticking plaster for grazed knees?
It said "DANGER - BEWARE OF SIGN"
It's not her fault. What else could she have done to warn the guy?
Yes. I know. I just like to pretend I don't know the difference between Australia and New Zealand. It's one of my charming quirks.
Turned around, so he could read the sign?
I don't think you can troll on the Shoutbox. You can write whatever you want. It's our sanctuary. We all hide here like Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian Embassy. If we step outside, they'll extradite us to Moderatorvilia. Moderatorania. The country where all the moderators are.
If she had hindsight, she'd have done that. If he had hindsight, he'd have seen it from behind. Fault is equal as I see it due to both of their lack of hindsight.
Sounds like a line out of Alice in Wonderland.
I'd choose dominoeing toppling crashing screaming bikers over a chain linked countryside any day. It's a matter of preference I guess. I could see how some would choose the opposite. The bikers for example.
I thought they were all consultants in hell.
That being the case, the carnage was justified. Some things just must be said regardless of consequence.
Fuck Home and Away. This is the real Aussie deal.
Truth is I would have voted for Jeb rather than Trump, and I already stated this during that election season.
:rofl:
And is such a question topic worthy?
Lots of things are not a stretch. Christian doctrine is no more a stretch than quantum mechanics. It's just that there's no evidence for God - or string theory and the multiverse.
You mean lots of rain?
Europe has been blanketed with featureless grey cloud for weeks. London looks like Venice after a flood, while the US north west and Canada are apparently getting record breaking heat. I was wondering, if these slightly odd weather events are replicated elsewhere.
lol
Please - don't anyone 'like' my posts.
It'll totally blow my image - as a philosopher unappreciated in my own time!!
Are we in a reset or something?
Er, let me put you through to the tech department @jamalrob.
The number under your name is the number of likes you’ve received, not your number of posts.
I liked your post just so you won't feel like a zero.
I gave you an updoot. Don't say I never gave you anything.
Sweet. Now you'll always be my first. :heart:
Thank you. :cry: Reciprocated.
I wonder how that is tallied because then their words will continue to accrue upvotes which naturally leads one to ask: how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
I ask this because @Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
I really have to get my mind out of the gutter.
Maybe it is your avatar :rofl:
Hey! I can't upvote my own posts! How do you expect me to ever get any encouragement?
"Liked"
Now that would be fun.
Quoting jamalrob
Please, please, no down votes. My fragile ego couldn't handle it.
You would be more interesting to only have downvotes for, yes.
There are numbers underneath our names now. I thought those were the upvotes. How did Jamalrob get 153 upvotes in two minutes? Is that something new too, or were they always there.
Upvoted.
Recant!
:cry:
Did you by chance miss my question?
I'm always looking for a way in... for a friend :flower:
And yes we did experiment with down votes at the old place but as suggested it was good for the rule twisters like @Hanover who is usually looking to score despite the downside risk that spooks those whose ego is more delicate in nature. :flower:
Then it can go to hell!
:death:
Yep!
Talk to me friend
What are you seeing?
And what are you seeing as far as "break through" cases with people who were fully vaccinated?
Client who was fully vaccinated went back to New Jersey and felt ill. Went to the local Dr and was tested: Positive for Covid-19. Was then told to fly home to Arizona. The flipping Dr. told him to fly knowing his diagnosis and he did.
He got back, his Dr. confirmed positive for COVID-19 test and within 24 hrs was admitted to the hospital. Three weeks later the man passed away.
His wife is fully vaccinated and wonders how?
I try to explain but I am slim for answers.
Any chance this variatiant started East and is heading West?
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Dunno, ask Hanover.
True words :flower:
Really? You are going to turn over this important of a decision to @Hanover ?
:smirk:
It is interesting to see how many upvotes there are on banned members.
I wonder how that is tallied because then their words will continue to accrue upvotes which naturally leads one to ask: how many upvotes would it take to get a banned member unbanned?
I ask this because Baden gave a price for such an option but it is above most members pay grade.
So I am wondering about a threshold to surpass in upvotes...
Except for @Bitter Crank. He's in Minnesota, which is basically the same thing.
S has 44 likes, so I'm guessing the figure will be at least a tad more than that.
This scheme would help @jamalrob -- all of us, in fact -- establish the market value of participants, while providing an income dribble.
My guess is that we will find the market value is less than we thought it would be. Perhaps shockingly less.
I like that idea.
Quoting jamalrob
Thank you for tossing the question back to me. As a fellow American, I do believe I can better decipher the question asked, which essentially asks how much posthumous love is required to resurrect the dead. The last time such an event occurred was when Jesus died, although I don't think his resurrection was motivated by upvotes, but I never read the New Testament because, well, I'm not only American, but I'm Jewish, so I could be wrong in using the death of someone else's messiah as precedence, but that does appear to be my only authority for answering the question posed to a fellow American.
I feel I'm rambling. Let me refocus.
As a fellow American, approaching the question as I've been asked, I can only say that Jesus, who I think was well loved prior to his being raked over glass shards, was like really really missed soon after his departure, and I do think, on second thought, that it was the metaphorical upvotes (i.e. people missing his being around saying gentle kind shit) that brought him back and made him die all over again.
Like a vision it comes to me.
7. the answer is 7. You get 7 upvotes after you're banned, and then you get unbanned, but just like Jesus Almighty, you'll get banned the next day, which I think is either Christmas or Easter. One of those. I can't ever keep that gentile stuff straight.
God Bless America.
With this post, I expect many upvotes.
So basically you wish to have some sort of 'selling of indulgences'?
I suppose there's the possibility of setting up some sort of hierarchy, with @jamalrob being the acting Pope and other administrators being a College of Cardinals.
Once we have that established, then there can be decisions as to the actions for which indulgences can be granted... both partial and plenary indulgences.
What a 'unique' idea? (although somehow I believe I've seen this one before, but anyway...)
What could possibly go wrong? :wink:
Unmoderated section. :cool:
Your mobil phone is based on quantum mechanics.
If christian doctrine were on a par with quantum mechanics, your mobile phone could presumably be re-charged what you going to church.
It isn't.
Bet I could win the most downvotes.
Is this normal?
I remember we had an Unmoderated section in the previous Philosophy Forums. It did provide some entertainment, but also was some really scary shit.
I remember someone going to the trouble of writing a whole topic (a damned long and specific topic) about me and how my illusions/delusions of reality that, coupled with my horrific pseudo philosophical notions, were a grand danger to all of mankind.
Strange as it seems I never recalled having a dialogue with that chap, but I suppose I must have pressed a button or two.
Then again, the notion that I could be a grand danger to all of mankind seemed quite laughable and indeed somewhat of a compliment, so I thanked him and moved on.
As you know, I didn't say there was no evidence for quantum mechanics.
Quoting Banno
As you know, I didn't say Christian doctrine was on a par with quantum mechanics.
Of all banned members, @The Great Whatever has the most likes with 53.
Now you say there is evidence for QM but no JC...?
AH, forget it.
I gave you an up vote for allowing me not to respond.
Why do you read the LGBT makeup reviews on Amazon? Shopping?
I need to go to that creative writing thread @Baden was setting up. I have some ideas that need releasing.
If you go on Amazon, which you apparently don't, there's an LGBT section on the front page with YouTube style videos.
One is of a young man putting on several layers of makeup and then rainbow eyeshadow.
Just wasn't expecting that.
Is that Suzanne Somers?
I do go to Amazon, but it doesn't have that on my front page. It has chainsaws, shotguns, and cowboy boots. I think it designs the front page based upon what it thinks your interests will be based upon the sort of porn you watch.
It's me actually, but looks a lot like Pam Anderson in the good old days.
You watch cowboy chainsaw porn?
I'm a straight very very hot young female, so duh.
Very hot and deeply disturbed.
Think how odd these posts are going to seem when you switch back to JM.
This post better belongs here
It was done by the same people who trucked in all those illegal votes for Biden.
I was thinking the same thing.
Good to hear from you. Have you recently become a medievalist? Indulgences caused a lot of problems; a Martin Luther will arise and shatter our sublime unity.
We live in one big market where everything has a cash value. Much more modern than selling escapes from an alleged hell.
Are you serious that if someone doesn't get any votes in a month that they will be banned. As it is, most of the members have a 0 by their name, and the site is going to become a clique. I can't even find a way of voting. It is so depressing seeing 0 next to your name. It is worse than The Eurovision Song Contest, where England scored 0 points this year. @jamarob says that he prefers not to call it banning but effectively it is.
It seems simply horrible and it is turning it into a popularity contest. As far as I can see it is far worse than the idea proposed of banning people on the basis of lack of arguments. If you really have to get rid of members because you have too many it would seem fairer to do it according to downvotes, because it may be that many on the site are not going to bother with voting at all.
BTW I think you're a good contributor, so I do hope you get a like before July.
EDIT: You got one! Well done Jack, you won't be getting banned this time. :up:
So, are you planning to exit everyone who doesn't get a vote by July as that is in the next few days? It is almost the end of June and I thought that a lot of the votes are based on the old system. If you ban everyone who doesn't get a vote in the next few days there will probably only be about 50 members on the site.
No bans based on likes.
I am glad it is a joke, as it shocked the when I woke up. I had just worked out how to vote and was thinking about trying to click hearts to save people from being thrown out of the philosophy 'Big Brother house'.
Spoke too soon! Glad I wan't ruder!
Otherwise, it's possible that the "reputation system" (the name being an attempt dignify plain old likes, or indicate how they should be used) will be bad for the forum, and we turned it off in the beginning for the reason you mention. But I'd still like to try it. What's the worst that can happen?
My hope is that good contributions will be rewarded with the most likes, thus encouraging better participation. Personally, I tend to like good posts, not only those I agree with. That's the idea.
Yeh that's why I revealed the truth. :lol:
What's the worst that can happen? The suicide of someone who cares about "reputation" - and thought they were popular, but as it turns out, they now know for a fact they are not. They mention philosophy forums in the suicide note, and so the bereaved relatives file a law suit against you for causing emotional distress, forcing the whole forum to close down, bankrupting all the mods. Otherwise, I think it's a great idea!
I think it's unlikely, but Jamalrob did ask, what's the worst that could happen? I cut the bit about him being turned out of his home, and his wife and kids developing whooping cough, and dying on the streets coughing blood! I'm not a monster!!
Impressive. What's your method for falsifying stuff? I print the webpage, cut out the bit I want to keep, draw my change, scan the scrap, save to my laptop, then upload to PF.
That's just a normal day for me here in Russia.
Careful!
@Michael, fix that.
No, I did an image search.
I've never seen the Andy Griffith Show. Seems "Otis" was only in 32 of 274 episodes, but stole the show. Interesting, if uncontroversial guy. Lived a good life - DJ, soldier, actor, died in his sleep aged 77. I've never heard of him, but then - I don't like to peek behind the curtain!
I put a piece of paper over the computer screen, meticulously trace and colour accordingly, then take a photo of the paper, which I print out, scan and upload before correcting any differences from the oriignal with photoshop, print that, draw on it with a marker, scan again, upload, send the file to my phone by email, upload here, and presto!
https://youtu.be/ZvuPeVmuxbU
We're in Germany; somewhere between Baden Baden and Hanover. Oh lackaday!
Im not @SophistiCat enough to get your reference.
Yeah, because nothing ramps up the quality of a philosophy forum like shitposting!
Shitposting. Shitposting gets the most likes.
Quoting jamalrob
I suggest a Saturnalia fest every Saturday, by GMT. On that day, all posts must be in proper syllogism form.
If 666 is the number of the beast, isn't -666 the number of God's blessing? Or is that 666i?
Like we Muricans care about the opinion of someone from holland. Pays-Bah!
Otis was the quintessential comic drunk. Back in the good old days, we thought alcoholism was funny.
Indeed...
Perhaps it's just me showing my age, but often I have the feeling we live in a world where we know the price of everything, yet the value of nothing and have no concern for what it costs in the end.
(as if that makes any sense)
I'll only be lurking.
Happy to see you are still doing well.
Cheers!
MoS
Funny thing is the only reason why I checked in was I received an e-mail indicating I was mentioned in a post. It made me curious as I had deactivated all notifications. I thought the account might be hacked. It wasn't.
Even stranger is the 'likes'.
I remember when we had them earlier I asked if there was a possibility to have them deactivated if the individual did care to have them. There was an extension made by some very talented and clever person that I added to my browser, so they disappeared.
Now with the new computer I see them again. Not that it bothers me much, but I've never been a fan of pollice verso (or is it verso pollice?).
Strange how I get more likes when I'm no longer posting.
I think you say that when you're trying divert an investigation into your porn habits.
A big part of my childhood...
... most of which I've tried to forget. (have you ever tried to forget something... it's an impossibility!)
Let me help?
You can thank me for that, everyone.
Quoting Mayor of Simpleton
All of those likes are from when the forum first started and we had them enabled. Just enabled them again yesterday.
Put this in Shoutbox because I think we're supposed to try and keep our smart-ass stuff out of the regular threads.
OK... so I 'liked' your post.
The link might not work, as I'm kind of media impaired.
Hey, hey, MOS! :cool:
How are you doing?
It's been a long time and I know it's been all my fault.
It seems things are still up and running... and I'm probably overdue to apologize for my poor taste in humor.
When you're done apologizing, let's have some more. :party:
Knowing my humor this is going to be a long long apology, so maybe we need to start with the red triangle with colorful parts flying off it.
Well... I have been accused of being an indirect enabler before, so once more... I'm sorry.
Was it funny? I haven't seen it. The popularity of the character would seem to suggest it was funny. Also, we're still laughing at Homer Simpson's alcoholism. And if not him, then Barney.
Quoting Hanover
I think it means, to be polite to someone's face and stab them in the back.
It's better than getting Bobbited!
(However, if everyone puts his or her fun staff out of the regular threads, aren't those going to become exceedingly dry?)
really?
Good point.
True.
Those two and Mr Burns are my idea of Amuhericans.
Yeah!
It should be there if you hover over the number next to the heart; check your post above.
And do you know American's idea of the Dutch? Nothing. We know nothing about the Netherlands. We don't know any famous Dutch people. Hans Brinker I guess. Milhouse Van Houten.
That's not real. Nobody would name a country Netherlands.
The French call them Pays-Bas, which means "low country."
Freud thought the Dutch were, as a group, anal-retentive. Very neat; very responsible about tending the dykes. Long straight rows of tulips, each row a different, contrasting color. Very permissive but tightly regulated. Because of the high likelihood of being suddenly immersed in salt water, the Dutch have striven to be very tall, giving them a better chance of making it to France, Germany, or Belgium when the dykes fail, as they someday must.
The Dutch are very clean, so clean a popular abrasive cleaner was named after them.
I think the name is more in reference to the fact that the land is low in relation to sea level, but, since the purpose of this whole discussion is to make fun of the country because Benkei made fun of ours, I'm going to go with your interpretation.
Now that we can't make fun of Asians, asian food, asian governments, or asian diseases, there is nothing else but to ridicule the Dutch.
A popular breakfast item in Dutchland is Dutch Baby--a pastry vaguely resembling infant flesh cooked in a heavy hot cast iron pan. You'll note that Asians and Africans wouldn't think of cooking "asian baby" or "African baby" pancakes.
I would also like to say that the Netherlands is my favorite country that I've visited in Europe. It's just about a tie with Germany, but that's because I can speak a bit of German and it's fun to try it out on Germans. Here's a picture of my brother eating very strong-flavored North Sea oysters on the beach in Noordwijk aan Zee.
In Finnish Ohio they call it Kropsua, which I presume, with my strong command of Ohio Finnish, means "strong crop of baby flesh".
Oddly enough, "Kropsua" also means "Dutch baby."
It looks really good, maybe like a popover, which is universally acclaimed as the best food in the history of the universe.
Did you not also partake? I do like a good oyster, raw or stewed.
I've learned the hard way that most people who did not grow up with Kropsua tend to find it unappealing. The key is to top it with licentious quantities of lingonberry preserves, which either makes it palatable, or even more disgusting to the "outsider". Yes, we call them outsiders in Finnish Ohio.
I like oysters a lot, but I always eat them raw. The flavor of these oysters as compared to our Wellfleets, for example, is like the difference between a quohog (a very big clam) and a littleneck. I don't know why they are the way they are. I think they would be good in a stew, just like quohogs are good in chowder.
Oh come on! There's no way this is an accidental Freudian slip where you actually reference Freud and then say "dyke" (a lesbian) but mean to say "dike" (a wall that is erected by seamen).
Regardless, well played. Well played.
Is "Dust" a Finnish surname?
Yes, and Noble is a common Finnish first name. It's just as common in Finnish Ohio to be named Noble Dust as it is to be named Lewd Detritus.
"Dyke" is an accepted alternate spelling of "dike."
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
I don't accept it.
The perfect name.
A name I generally assign to people who celebrate the deaths of other people.
...Yeah, feel free to keep editing the post, but I think it's safe to say you've deflated the shoutbox fun for now...
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/06/donald-rumsfeld-obituary-iraq-war
Your bro looks like he's being choosy. Not that there's anything wrong with that, especially when it comes to smelly slimy things.
I'm not disagreeing with you on how despicable Rumsfeld was. Your celebration of death is what's distasteful and bawdy.
As Mrs. Trump once said, "It's just locker room talk".
Does that make you Melania and SLX Trump? :rofl:
Why? The death of evil people ought to be celebrated. They are joyous occasions.
"Respect for the dead", irrespective of who are what they were in life, is just a religious/formalist holdover that disrespects - in Rumsfeld's case - literally millions of others, both living and dead. Nobody owes him, or any other shit person, anything, just because they are now a decaying clump of dead cells.
I'll be totally honest with you by saying I'm not quite sure why I find it distasteful, but if it is a religious "holdover", it's correct in being so. All I know is when I see the celebration of the deaths of bad people, I can't help but notice that the celebrators are joining in on the evil acts of their hated chosen through their celebration. They're partaking in the ritual death through celebration. I find myself running away from that ritual.
:razz:
Huh? No one killed Rumsfeld. There were no 'evil acts' committed. There was no 'ritual'. He died. The world is a better place as a result. That's worth celebrating.
Huh?
It's not.
Quoting StreetlightX
So it's not.
What I'm saying is that by celebrating the death of someone who has committed atrocities including death, you are participating in that atrocity through your celebration of their death. No, it's not a "religious" position, but it could be described as a "mystical" or a "spiritual" position, sure. I assume we're done here, based on past discussions, but I'm open.
Quoting Noble Dust
By celebrating Rumsfeld's death I'm participating in the torture and genocide he commissioned? I'm not sure that makes any sense.
It doesn't make sense within the logic that you use, yes.
Obviously.
Since you were here, the population of seals has grown dramatically because of restrictions on killing them. That would be fine, but there has also been an increase in the population of great white sharks during the summer. We stay in Dennis for two weeks in August. I avoid sharks by 1) going to the beach on the bay side where there are fewer sharks and 2) going to a bar and eating the best scallops I've ever had while my family goes to the beach.
I don't even think it need be seen as spiritual. Respect for the dead is simply humane, or human. It's in all cultures and expresses the basic thought that people are more than meat and bones, which is true.
Teenage radicals, fascists, and fanatics are wont to trash this tradition. That's just the way they are.
He likes oysters ok, but he didn't like those very much. I ate most of them. Even I'm glad I didn't order more than six.
As if the world is better or worse according to the number of good guys and bad guys.
Hey, in total good faith, I'll just try one more (probably bad) approach:
By celebrating the death of a person who has made the world a worse place, you are also making the world a worse place. Why? Because you're adding negative energy on top of negative energy.
Lol, start setting a good guy example and I'll start listening.
It doesn't.
To be fair, I just added some negative energy there. Sorry.
I have modelled my life after Moe Szyslak.
Clarky I love you, but now the tables have turned; rather than SLX killing the mood with real philosophy in the shoutbox, you're now killing the dark shoutbox mood with your lighthearted gold.
Quoting jamalrob
Oh right, call me convinced.
No, we discipline children by demonstrating to them what they did wrong and then implementing consequences. By "negative energy", I'm not referring to this process.
Then what are you referring to? You haven't done much to define it other than to equate between war crimes and celebrating someone's natural death.
An accumulation of negative thoughts which affect the physical world at critical mass.
There's nothing negative about celebrating Rumsfeld death. It's a quite positive thought. Good feelings all around. It's in the name - celebration.
Now you're just circling back to here:
Quoting StreetlightX
Incorrect.
Quoting Noble Dust
Actually yes, I agree with myself; thanks for the reminder.
I agree...
The only reason I would withhold celebrating the death of a bad person, is because of those people left behind that were family or friends who are blameless and might mourn. There's a difference between honesty (I can still say the world is better off without Rumsfeld assuming he was still in positions of influence) and celebrating. The danger of too much respect for the dead is that their mistakes are swept under the rug.
And speaking of celebrations... Remember when they got Osama Bin Laden? Or any time, really, where one side manages to kill an enemy they tend to celebrate.
We can, but the drama associated is weirdly familiar to the drama associated with the celebration of an enemy. The mania is similar.
Quoting Benkei
Absolutely.
It's two meals at best for anyone, but we Americans have to feel like we can eat it all.
Kissinger, Rumsfeld, Osama bin Laden, Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, various and sundry others have shuffled off this mortal coil and I felt no sorrow. I saw no obligation to feel sorrow. I did in fact feel some satisfaction. Not a lot of satisfaction, because in most cases the commission of their bad actions was quite removed from their demise. Richard Nixon's death would have been more satisfying had it occurred at some cinematic moment.
Some deaths are welcome. Reinhard Heydrich, one of the more satanic Nazis, died at the hands of Czech [if I remember correctly] assassins. Probably Frau Heydrich was quite unhappy about it, but outside herself and a small Nazi circle of friends, I don't think anyone regretted his death.
There are quite a few 'evil doers' whose death would be a net gain for the world. There are billions of good people whose deaths we can mourn.
How long a jig one will dance on their graves is a matter of taste and one's sensitivity to the preferences of polite society -- something I've never quite gotten the knack of.
And some soldiers have been known to urinate on the corpses of the enemies they’ve brutally killed in celebration. (Sometimes far worse happens.) For many, not indicative of honorable character. Then again, for many it is.
I like that quote. One can for example be polite about one's relief at the bad guy's demise. Don't know how celebrating the same demise can be. Hey, casting my vote here.
You've said it better than I can.
I've been fielding them all day, friend.
https://www.nasa.gov/images/content/484443main1_firemap-226.jpg
I believe he did as he was asked in serving our country and acknowledge his dedication to carrying out some unpopular actions.
For me? He deserves a graceful death for him and those who loved him. :sparkle:
Barney?
He was a war profiteer, though.
Agreed, as long as we don't forget the terrible consequences of his actions.
But don't you think that's weird? So ok to celebrate and remember a good person's life but not ok to piss on the memory of someone because he was an asshole? Seems incongruent to me where I wouldn't expect it.
I remind myself that there are chapters of my life that I am not very proud of and I am trying to extend that grace to him as well.
My Mom still reminds me "That you never know what goes down behind closed doors" so becareful not to judge based solely on a person's career.
As we be careful not to judge a person on their worst action alone but rather a totality of their actions.
Okay and I am sure he's the only one amongst the politicians of any administration that walks away wealthier than where they started.
I appreciated Rumsfelds blunt attitude in saying to the American people that you don't go to war with the army you want but with the army you have."
Tough words from someone who was on the front line and a reality check for us.
It's nice that people appreciate his 'tough words' though.
Maybe I can donate a million to an orphanage and be really nice to my kids, that way nobody will mind if I blow up a bus full of people.... Mitigating circumstances only work if they're related to the crime.
I would agree, that mission accomplished, the US should have gone home. But Saddam Hussein had to go. He had an eight year war with Iran costing a million lives, and as soon as the international community stopped that conflict, he invaded Kuwait. Ten years of sanctions failed to bring down the regime, and there was credible evidence he had chemical weapons. Not least, his use of chemical weapons against Iran:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_chemical_attacks_against_Iran
Instead what happened is that when Saddam was removed, the Iraqi people went mad, turned on each other, and the US stayed in an attempt to contain the conflict - getting drawn in to the fustercluck the middle east has become. If the Iraqi people had organised elections rather than ransacking museums, the mission would have been accomplished in two weeks.
This comment suggests you're way ahead of them on that score. Maybe take a breather. This is Onion level stuff.
WHAT?
...which they percipitated and maintained. If foreign aggression counts as a criteria for invasion by the US, the first country it ought to invade is itself, considering that the US is the single most agressive imperial power that has ever existed. Actually just kidding, it already has, considering the mililitarization of its cops.