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The Shoutbox

Jamal October 22, 2015 at 16:27 126825 views 61561 comments
This could function as a shoutbox I reckon.

Comments (61561)

Jamal March 06, 2023 at 21:14 #786756
Reply to universeness A deeply misguided post, but I cherish it nonetheless.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 21:21 #786758
Reply to Jamal
That's because you have capitalist sympathies and like to see your teeth on the big screen!
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 21:27 #786759
Reply to universeness I believe everyone should be provided with access to big screen teeth and that this could be achieved without capitalism, so you’re not quite right.

But I live in the actual world, where stomatologists operate privately, though they charge a lot less than Scotch dentists despite having bigger screens.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 21:32 #786760
Reply to Jamal
So, is there no more free dentistry for the poor in Russia?
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 21:38 #786762
Reply to universeness

Either you are from a generation that associates Russia with the Soviet Union, so you make comments jokingly assuming that Russia is in some way socialist, or else you’re unaware of the fact that Russia is a capitalist country in which welfare and public healthcare have been systematically rolled back since the nineties (I’m no fan of the USSR, before anyone pounces on me).

But very basic free dentistry is available, I believe.

I’m disappointed you didn’t react to my use of the word “Scotch”.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 21:49 #786765
Scotch is one of my favourite words and beverages.
Do you think this 'very basic public dentistry,' provides better dental care for the majority of people in Russia today, under the private stomatologists, with their big screens, compared to dentistry under the communists?

Have you ever watched the 7 part series on the fall of communism in the USSR, called 'Traumazone' by Adam Curtis?
BTW, I was not a fan of the USSR either, especially when it became so corrupted, from the initial vision of the majority of those who revolted!
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 21:56 #786766
Quoting universeness
Do you think this 'very basic public dentistry,' provides better dental care for the majority of people in Russia today, compared to the private stomatologists, with their big screens?


I don’t know the proportion of Russian people who can afford to go private, so I can’t answer you as to the majority of Russians. Obviously the very poor are not served well by dentistry that they can’t afford, so in that sense, what little public toothcare there is is better for them, because it’s better than nothing.

Quoting universeness
Have you ever watched the 7 part series on the fall of communism in the USSR, called 'Traumazone' by Adam Curtis?


No, this is news to me. I like his documentaries but I hadn’t heard about this one.

Quoting universeness
BTW, I was not a fan of the USSR either, especially when it became so corrupted, from the initial vision of the majority of those who revolted!


Well, much as I’m partly sympathetic to many of the original revolutionaries, I don’t think you can say it was a majority that was doing all the revolting.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:07 #786767
Quoting Jamal
No, this is news to me. I like his documentaries but I hadn’t heard about this one.


I would be very interested in your opinions of 'Traumazone.' Episode 1 is posted below. All 7 episodes are free on YouTube. I thought it was very good indeed, as it delivered such excellent, everyday 'snapshots' of life in the USSR just before it fell apart.



I think the teeth of the Russian population would have fared much better under communism (and those revolutionary bolsheviks,) than under these private stomatologists. Very little freedom and a one party dictatorship, I agree, but healthier teeth for all!

BTW I didn't actually suggest a majority revolted, I typed about the initial vision of the majority of THOSE WHO DID revolt.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:12 #786769
Reply to universeness Thanks! I’m excited to watch it.

Quoting universeness
I think the teeth of the Russian population would have fared much better under communism (and those revolutionary bolsheviks,) than under these private stomatologists. Very little freedom and a one party dictatorship, I agree, but healthier teeth for all!


Well, maybe.

I do know that there is a really good tradition of healthcare that started in the USSR and has carried over into private healthcare. Its focus is on prevention, so you get a lot more testing and scanning than was ever encouraged or provided by the NHS in the UK. I think some of that probably remains in the free healthcare system, but like I say, it’s a shadow of what it was.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:21 #786772
Quoting Jamal
Thanks! I’m excited to watch it.


I have watched all 7 episodes 3 times, as I wanted to make sure I didn't miss any pertinent points.
It also made me want to know a lot more about the 'Gosplan' of the USSR as it was the main 'moneyless,' system that the USSR used for production, distribution and exchange. It worked very well at the beginning from what I have garnished so far but it was allowed to become totally corrupted, by the usual parcel of rogues, we all know so well.

Quoting Jamal
I do know that there is a really good tradition of healthcare that started in the USSR and has carried over into private healthcare. Its focus is on prevention, so you get a lot more testing and scanning than was ever encouraged or provided by the NHS. I think some of that probably remains in the free healthcare system, but like I say, it’s a shadow of what it was.


It seems to me that a very good, free health care system, available to all, from cradle to grave is possible to establish and maintain. It disgusts me, when profit is ever associated with healthcare or education.
I can feel no other way.

I look forward to any feedback you would offer on 'Traumazone.'
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:27 #786773
Quoting universeness
It also made me want to know a lot more about the 'Gosplan' of the USSR as it was the main 'moneyless,' system that the USSR used for production, distribution and exchange. It worked very well at the beginning from what I have garnished so far but it was allowed to become totally corrupted, by the usual parcel or rogues, we all know so well.


Whether or not it was misconceived or mismanaged, I do think it was fascinating. Right now I’m living close to a building where they had the central mainframe computers that were supposed to make all the calculations for production and distribution. Trouble is, by the time the building was finished it wasn’t fit to house the newer computers. It has a 3d concrete and mosaic Möbius strip over the entrance.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:30 #786774
Quoting universeness
BTW I didn't actually suggest a majority revolted, I typed about the initial vision of the majority of THOSE WHO DID revolt.


Got you :up:
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:31 #786775
Reply to Jamal
I don't want to present you with any spoilers but the attempt to upgrade the Gosplan system by using computer technology is covered quite well in the traumazone series.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:33 #786776
Reply to universeness Nice. This would’ve been the 60s and 70s right?
T Clark March 06, 2023 at 22:37 #786778
Quoting BC
But that characterizes posts that are made every 5 minutes, never mind the first one in a vacant 24 hour period.


Again, my responsibilities only apply when there haven't been any posts in the Shoutbox for 24 hours. My stupid, pointless, untrue, and trivial posts will be strategically placed to provide maximum benefit to the forum.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:40 #786781
Reply to Jamal
The Gosplan started in 1921.
There is some decent info on-line but limited details. I don't know if that's because the USSR was not keen to share the details of how it functioned. Perhaps Russia under Putin still protects the details of Gosplan but I don't know.
Wiki entry for Gosplan.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:41 #786782
Reply to universeness Yeah, I was referring to the computerisation.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:44 #786783
Reply to Jamal
Oh, sorry! The computerisation started in the 80's.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:46 #786784
T Clark March 06, 2023 at 22:46 #786785
Quoting Hanover
When I was 15 (and you were like 50), I worked at a Chinese restaruant as a busboy, and the funniest joke dads used to ask me was what part of China I was from.

But more to the point, I'd mix the mustard from the powder and it would burn my eyes, so I'd go in the back to where everyone chain smoked and there were these mollasses coated fly strips hanging from the ceiling that would slap you in the face. That's how I'd get my relief.

I miss that job. They'd try to get me to eat really hot foods so they could laugh, but I'd throw it out the back door, and they thought that was funny too.


Then let's look at this post a bit and apply the JTB standard. Let's forget about T and B for now. Are we justified in believing Hanover's story? Has he ever lied to us? Has he ever made stuff up? Does he ever say things he knows to be wrong, just to get attention?

My conclusion - We are not justified in believing this story is true, therefore this post contains no knowledge.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:48 #786787
Reply to T Clark It has the ring of truth to it though doesn’t it? It’s not like his other stories. How does “the ring of truth” fit in your epistemology?
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:51 #786788
Reply to Jamal
Correction!
I looked at a pdf I downloaded about the Gosplan and it had:

[b]In October 1959, as a result of initiatives and publications of a number of progressive
domestic scientists, the Council of Ministers of the USSR issued a decree on the creation of a computer center under the State Planning Committee of the USSR whose main
goal would be to ensure calculations on economic plans throughout the country. This
computer center, which since 1963 became known as the Main Computing Center
(MCC) of the State Planning Committee (Gosplan) of the USSR, existed for more than
thirty years until the second half of 1991, when the Soviet Union collapsed.[/b]

I think the 80's upgrade was an attempt to replace the old computer system they already had.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:55 #786791
Reply to universeness Cool. The building I’m close to was a Gosplan computing centre but I don’t know if it was the main one.
T Clark March 06, 2023 at 22:55 #786792
Quoting Jamal
It has the ring of truth to it though doesn’t it? It’s not like his other stories. How does “the ring of truth” fit in your epistemology?


"Ring of truth?" That sounds like faith to me. You're thinking of religion, not philosophy.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 22:56 #786793
Reply to T Clark That’s just your intolerant anti-religious bias speaking.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 22:57 #786794
Reply to Jamal
I couldn't upload the photo from the pdf but here's the caption:
[b]Fig. 1. The building of the Main Computer Center of the USSR State Planning Committee in
Moscow on the Kirov street (now Myasnitskaya street), 45[/b]
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 23:01 #786796
Reply to universeness So I’m guessing the one I’m close to was part of the upgrade. The architectural style is 70s.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 23:05 #786798
Reply to Jamal
Probably.
universeness March 06, 2023 at 23:10 #786799
Reply to Jamal
This is the original building that was the headquarters of the Gosplan since 1921.
User image
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 23:14 #786800
Reply to universeness Ah, that is now the State Duma, just across the road from the Kremlin.
T Clark March 06, 2023 at 23:16 #786802
Quoting Jamal
That’s just your intolerant anti-religious bias speaking.


Not at all. We'll look at two conditions. 1) I do not have faith that @Hanover is telling the truth so, I have no justification, either philosophical or religious, for believing what he wrote. 2) I know from past discussions that you do not believe in justification by faith. As I've already noted, given Hanover's history of mendacity, you have no justification by fact either. For that reason, you have no justification for believing Hanover's post and therefore it contains no knowledge.

T Clark March 06, 2023 at 23:17 #786803
Quoting universeness
This is the original building that was the headquarters of the Gosplan since 1921.


Which window do they throw all the military guys out of?
universeness March 06, 2023 at 23:22 #786804
Quoting T Clark
Which window do they throw all the military guys out of?


I think it was the window they called 'American military spies exit here!'
The name was too long and a bit paranoid to be a permanent fixture.
Jamal March 06, 2023 at 23:27 #786805
Reply to T Clark Some basic beliefs don’t require justification. Sometimes the truth asserts itself by force. Certainty is a network of beliefs that fit together. This Wittgensteinian perspective works well with my “ring of truth” claim, showing that it is rational.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 02:26 #786821
My story of the Chinese restaurant was true. I'll give some more details.

Mr. Wong had me put the uneaten crunchy noodles back in the bin for reuse. Mrs. Wong would invite me to the crew table to eat, and I'd get there first to get my food because their custom was to eat straight from the serving plate with their chopsticks and that was disgusting by my lofty western standards. I made $3 an hour, 35 cents under minimum wage. They told me I should eat the pork because God made it for me to eat.

That's too many normal details for a lie, and has that ring of truth we can all rely upon.

Now if I said I coated Mrs. Wong with molasses in order to make her sweet flower of love more palatable, you might question my veracity, as you'd know I would never be so wrong to Mr. Wong's schlong.

T Clark March 07, 2023 at 02:57 #786824
Quoting Jamal
Some basic beliefs don’t require justification. Sometimes the truth asserts itself by force. Certainty is a network of beliefs that fit together. This Wittgensteinian perspective works well with my “ring of truth” claim, showing that it is rational.


My JTB post was tongue-in-cheek. I think anyone who thinks that JTB is an accurate description of knowledge has never paid attention to how knowing something actually works and feels. I see knowledge in a similar manner to how you do.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 02:59 #786827
Quoting universeness
I think it was the window they called 'American military spies exit here!'
The name was too long and a bit paranoid to be a permanent fixture.


That makes sense, I guess, but, with the way things continue to go in Ukraine, it seems they may need it again.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 03:02 #786828
Quoting Hanover
My story of the Chinese restaurant was true.


I didn't say it wasn't true, I said it wasn't knowledge. The question here isn't whether it is knowledge to you, but whether it is knowledge to others.

Come on. This is philosophy. Get with it.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 03:59 #786844
Quoting T Clark
My JTB post was tongue-in-cheek


Yep. I’ve never not known it.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 04:26 #786851
Quoting Jamal
Some basic beliefs don’t require justification. Sometimes the truth asserts itself by force. Certainty is a network of beliefs that fit together. This Wittgensteinian perspective works well with my “ring of truth” claim, showing that it is rational.


When you get down to it, what you're talking about is intuition, at least that's what I call it. There are quite a few people, including here on the forum, who don't think it's rational.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 04:36 #786853
Reply to T Clark

It seems to be a false dichotomy. The stereotypes are that intuition happens "to" someone, while rationality is something someone "does"; passive vs. active. That's not really true. Rationality is less active than we think; intuition is less passive. The subconscious plays a role in both interfaces.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 05:19 #786859
Quoting T Clark
When you get down to it, what you're talking about is intuition, at least that's what I call it. There are quite a few people, including here on the forum, who don't think it's rational.


I don’t think I’m talking about intuition. For me, the human form of life is primary, not the mental happenings of a subject of experience considered in isolation. I’m generally against the latter, Cartesian sort of epistemology, which is just what is usually meant by epistemology.

[quote=Peter Hacker]Wittgenstein sought to replace the conception of a language as a meaning calculus (Frege, Russell, the Tractatus) by an anthropological or ethnological conception. A language is not a class of sentences that can be formed from a set of axioms (definitions), formation and transformation rules and the meanings of which is given by their truth-conditions, but an open-ended series of interlocking language-games constituting a form of life or way of living (a culture).[/quote]
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 05:41 #786865
When I went to bed, we were debating the full health benefits of rye bread. I wake up and I see you all are debating about a Russian building of state duma.
As @Hanover said, "There's a lot of shit you need to know if you work in the Shoutbox" and now I fully understand what he meant.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 05:42 #786866
Quoting Noble Dust
It seems to be a false dichotomy. The stereotypes are that intuition happens "to" someone, while rationality is something someone "does"; passive vs. active. That's not really true. Rationality is less active than we think; intuition is less passive. The subconscious plays a role in both interfaces.


This is how I see it too. What I was presenting were my understandings of what many others believe. I think very little of what we think and do is what I would call rational. I don't call it irrational either. It's non-rational. I try to be aware of my experience of thinking. What I find is that most of my thinking is intuitive, even for intellectual or technical issues. Conscious, rational thought comes in when I have to deal with something unfamiliar or more complex. Lots of other people don't experience it that way. It is a common experience for me to not consciously realize what I know until I put it into words.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 05:44 #786867
Quoting Jamal
I don’t think I’m talking about intuition. For me, the human form of life is primary, not the mental happenings of a subject of experience considered in isolation. I’m generally against the latter, Cartesian sort of epistemology, which is just what is usually meant by epistemology.


I wonder if we're talking about the same thing, just using different words. What you are describing seems consistent with what I'm saying.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 05:48 #786868
Reply to T Clark I’ll take that as an indirect way of conceding defeat. Thank you.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 05:48 #786869
Reply to javi2541997

Yes Javi; less sleep and more knowledge accumulation for you. There's a lot of shit to know.

Quoting T Clark
Lots of other people don't experience it that way.


I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not convinced the majority of people are aware of how they experience things; what the interface consists of. This is a major reason why I don't bother with actual philosophical discussion here much anymore.

But antyway, we've gotten much too thoughtful for the shoutbox. I ate leftover pizza for dinner.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 05:56 #786871
Quoting Noble Dust
This is a major reason why I don't bother with actual philosophical discussion here much anymore.


I lost interest years ago, but regained it recently for reasons I’ve been trying to unearth. I think it was something to do with reading the novel Crash, which I didn’t like but which got me thinking again.

Quoting Noble Dust
I'm not convinced the majority of people are aware of how they experience things; what the interface consists of


This is interesting. You should start a discussion.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:03 #786872
Reply to Jamal

I do lurk in the real threads, and did notice your renewed interest, which has somewhat inspired me as well, but not to the point of actually doing anything about it. But I can relate; every time I finish a PKD novel I'm exasperated to the point of wanting to start a thread, it would seem.

Quoting Jamal
This is interesting. You should start a discussion.


And you should start a Frankfurt School thread.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 06:04 #786873
Quoting Noble Dust
Yes Javi; less sleep and more knowledge accumulation for you. There's a lot of shit to know.


I completely regret went to bed, but you know, sleep is as healthy as rye bread! :smile:
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:07 #786874
Reply to javi2541997

Oh yes, sleep is probably more healthy than rye. But what's even more healthy? Constant knowledge accumulation.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 06:13 #786876
Quoting Noble Dust
And you should start a Frankfurt School thread.


I have been inspired to do so, but, like you, not to the point of actually doing anything about it.

I have an idea for a thread about history, about whether philosophy is subordinate to it or the other way around. If philosophy is subordinate to history—because ideas are conditioned by transient social circumstances—does that entail its full relativization? And yet if saying so is itself doing philosophy (philosophy of the history of philosophy) am I thereby transcending history and saving philosophy from relativism, or just doing sociology or anthropology? The question of historicism. I don’t remember having seen it addressed on TPF, even though to me it’s fundamental. It’s difficult though.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 06:22 #786878
Quoting Noble Dust
But what's even more healthy? Constant knowledge accumulation.


Amen!
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 06:24 #786879
Quoting Noble Dust
Constant knowledge accumulation.


A critical theorist might identify in this comment the structure of capitalism. It reveals that our idea of knowledge is modelled on the endless drive for profit, where knowledge becomes just another form of capital.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:27 #786880
Reply to Jamal

Do it. I will contribute, albeit poorly. Hint: I will argue in history's favor. Concepts of what is actual are constantly changing without our knowledge or consent. But that's not only okay, but required. And other woo woo sentiments. etc.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:28 #786881
Reply to Jamal

You seem to understand the joke.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 06:29 #786882
Quoting Noble Dust
Concepts of what is actual are constantly changing without our knowledge or consent. But that's not only okay, but required


I tend in that direction too, but I’m thinking it’s a dialectical thing and that philosophy is not thereby denigrated, unless it ignores the fact (like a lot of analytic philosophy does).
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:33 #786883
Reply to Jamal

Say "denigrated" and "analytic philosophy" in the same sentence and I'm all ears.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 06:36 #786884
Reply to Noble Dust Ha, yeah I thought that would please you. :grin:

But I really must stop trying to please people so much.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:36 #786885
Reply to javi2541997

Now now my porpoise; do not worship at the alter of sheer knowledge, lest ye become a conniving dolphin.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:37 #786886
Quoting Jamal
But I really must stop trying to please people so much.


And why you need to start this thread. Must we make a pact?
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 06:39 #786887
Reply to Noble Dust Once I accumulate enough knowledge to realize adequate profits on my learning investment, I will be starting literally thousands of discussions.
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 06:42 #786888
Reply to Jamal

I await these countless threads (and your banning) with stinky breath.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 06:59 #786891
Quoting Noble Dust
do not worship at the alter of sheer knowledge, lest ye become a conniving dolphin


No adoréis ante el altar del puro conocimiento, no sea que os convirtáis en un delfín intrigante.

Cool quote. We should pin it up on "TPF quote cabinet"
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 07:06 #786893
Reply to javi2541997

I like the Spanish translation better. :cheer:
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 07:07 #786894
Reply to javi2541997 You missed the porpoise and ND misspelled "altar". This is the Shoutbox: shape up!
Noble Dust March 07, 2023 at 07:11 #786895
Quoting Jamal
ND misspelled "altar".


Quoting Noble Dust
do not worship at the alter of sheer knowledge,


Jamal March 07, 2023 at 07:15 #786896
Reply to Noble Dust On the contrary, correct spelling is not just knowledge, but a moral and aesthetic imperative.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 07:32 #786897
Quoting Jamal
This is the Shoutbox: shape up!


Esto es Shoutbox: ¡ponte en forma!

Did I do it better now? :smile:
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 07:38 #786898
Reply to javi2541997 :clap: :sparkle:
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 11:08 #786921
Quoting Jamal
critical theorist might identify in this comment the structure of capitalism. It reveals that our idea of knowledge is modelled on the endless drive for profit, where knowledge becomes just another form of capital.


I'd like to think this true, but sometimes I fear the knowledge I amass from the Shoutbox has no value in the marketplace.

Nonsense, right?? Please tell me that's nonsense.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 11:52 #786926
Reply to Hanover

On TPF, your stock is rising, and that's all that matters.
universeness March 07, 2023 at 12:40 #786928
Quoting T Clark
What I was presenting were my understandings of what many others believe. I think very little of what we think and do is what I would call rational. I don't call it irrational either. It's non-rational. I try to be aware of my experience of thinking. What I find is that most of my thinking is intuitive, even for intellectual or technical issues. Conscious, rational thought comes in when I have to deal with something unfamiliar or more complex. Lots of other people don't experience it that way. It is a common experience for me to not consciously realize what I know until I put it into words.


What do you think of the following tweet from Matt Dillahunty.
Knowledge is a subset of belief. While it's a separate question - belief (either convinced of x or not convinced of x) is binary for an individual proposition.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 14:08 #786939
Quoting T Clark
This is how I see it too. What I was presenting were my understandings of what many others believe. I think very little of what we think and do is what I would call rational. I don't call it irrational either. It's non-rational. I try to be aware of my experience of thinking. What I find is that most of my thinking is intuitive, even for intellectual or technical issues. Conscious, rational thought comes in when I have to deal with something unfamiliar or more complex. Lots of other people don't experience it that way. It is a common experience for me to not consciously realize what I know until I put it into words.


I see it as the more thought I put into something, the better I understand it, with language being a useful tool for engaging in the thought. I disagree with those who suggest knowledge and language are inextricable. I do often have an intuitive response to something I hear, knowing it illogical or problematic, or even persuasive and clear, but then I better develop that understanding or position after increased thought, which typically occurs in language (although not entirely). I also find that I often look for words to describe what I already know, indicating the knowledge preceded the linguistic conversion.

There have been many discussions in this Forum regarding linguistic philosophy and find those arguments that designate a necessary role of language with thought (or certain types of thought) not just unpersuasive, but empirically false. That is, regardless of the way people declare that language and thought are intertwined, to the extent it is not consistent with my own personal experience, I just find it wrong.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 15:21 #786946
Quoting Hanover
I also find that I often look for words to describe what I already know, indicating the knowledge preceded the linguistic conversion.


Aye but mentally searching for words is linguistic mentation. You're already in language at that point. The conversion, if there is one, I think of as being from attitude to words, through thought. Thought can do this because it's both pre-linguistic and linguistic at the same time.

Take your knowledge that you have not been to the moon (I'm just guessing here). I don't think you can be said to know it till you've singled it out in thought, before which point there is no it at all, because it's just part of your undifferentiated underlying certainty.

Maybe there's no general scheme here. Knowledge and thought come in wildly different flavours.

I quite enjoyed using the word "mentation" despite its atrociousness.

Breakfast: banana, apple, coffee
Lunch: sauteed chicken livers, onions, and bell peppers, again
Dinner: coming up soon, roast chicken thighs with couscous salad, raspberry sorbet
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 15:34 #786947
Quoting Jamal
Dinner: coming up soon, roast chicken thighs with couscous salad, raspberry sorbet


:100:

Couscous salad! One of my favourites. Mercadona sells couscous salad in cute packagings.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 15:36 #786948
Quoting Jamal
I’ll take that as an indirect way of conceding defeat.


Yes, you should just do that. As Fezzik the giant said to Wesley in the Princess Bride, I want you to feel that you're doing well.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 15:38 #786949
Quoting Noble Dust
I wouldn't be so sure. I'm not convinced the majority of people are aware of how they experience things; what the interface consists of.


I think you may be right, but I take people at their word about how they experience knowing things.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 15:38 #786950
Quoting javi2541997
Couscous salad! One of my favourites. Mercadona sells couscous salad in cute packagings.


It's unfortunate that you promised to yourself never to go back there.

I make mine with apple, yellow pepper, olives, pomegranate arils, feta cheese, and parsley. I've mentioned it at least once before in the Shoutbox and I refuse to do so again.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 15:40 #786951
Quoting universeness
Knowledge is a subset of belief. While it's a separate question - belief (either convinced of x or not convinced of x) is binary for an individual proposition.


I'm not sure what it means, but it sounds like something I would disagree with.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 15:48 #786952
Quoting Hanover
I see it as the more thought I put into something, the better I understand it, with language being a useful tool for engaging in the thought. I disagree with those who suggest knowledge and language are inextricable. I do often have an intuitive response to something I hear, knowing it illogical or problematic, or even persuasive and clear, but then I better develop that understanding or position after increased thought, which typically occurs in language (although not entirely). I also find that I often look for words to describe what I already know, indicating the knowledge preceded the linguistic conversion.


I agree with this with one clarification. The level of mental effort I put into something should be consistent with the uncertainty of my source of information and consequences of me being wrong. In that context, I think most of the decisions we make don't require much deep insight or understanding and can be handled using intuition.

Quoting Hanover
There have been many discussions in this Forum regarding linguistic philosophy and find those arguments that designate a necessary role of language with thought (or certain types of thought) not just unpersuasive, but empirically false.


I agree.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 15:58 #786954
Quoting Jamal
It's unfortunate that you promised to yourself never to go back there.


I regret such statement because it is impossible for me not to go to Mercadona. It has a gravitational power that drags me into its zone, like a magnet.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 16:03 #786956
Reply to javi2541997 Yes, I can still feel that magnetic gravitation from here.
universeness March 07, 2023 at 16:11 #786959
Reply to T Clark
He is simply saying belief is a binary choice, you either accept x is true or not.
Knowledge is justified true BELIEF, so belief to which, you assign a very high credence level, to the extent that if you discover that belief is false, it would 'shake you to your very core.'
He goes into the details here:
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 16:16 #786961
Quoting Jamal
Take your knowledge that you have not been to the moon (I'm just guessing here). I don't think you can be said to know it till you've singled it out in thought, before which point there is no it at all, because it's just part of your undifferentiated underlying certainty.


Maybe, but I don't think I need to think it in words to know it and it be a part of undifferentiated underlying certainty. That is, I can see a man bouncing around on the moon taking a giant step for mankind and know that experience is one I've never had without reducing that thought into words.

I'm not sure if you were saying otherwise though because you say this:

Quoting Jamal
Thought can do this because it's both pre-linguistic and linguistic at the same time.


Are you allowing for the existence of all types of thought without language?
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 16:20 #786962
Quoting T Clark
In that context, I think most of the decisions we make don't require much deep insight or understanding and can be handled using intuition.


Or I'd say that deep insight and understanding is part of human intuition, meaning we are very good at navigating our world because we are inherently intelligent creatures that are able to process massive amounts of data subconsciously without having to parse everything out in charts and graphs or language of any sort. For example, I drive my car down the road with thousands of data inputs coming at me at incredible speeds, yet I'm still able to avoid any collisions with well over 99% accuracy.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 16:27 #786963
Adding to this story. I once was driving on a country road and a kid crossed the road on his bicycle well in front of me and he was smiling and laughing, and as he got to the other side, he looked back quickly. I slammed on my brakes and seconds later a second kid came crossing, who I think I would have hit.

After catching my breath, I realized that I had instinctively understood that he was laughing at the kid he was beating in the race and he was looking back to see how far ahead he was. That was never put into language for me, nor was it "how to" knowledge. It was a firm understanding of kids, bicycles, country roads, and oncoming cars.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 16:27 #786964
Quoting Hanover
Maybe, but I don't think I need to think it in words to know it and it be a part of undifferentiated underlying certainty. That is, I can see a man bouncing around on the moon taking a giant step for mankind and know that experience is one I've never had without reducing that thought into words


I agree you don’t need to think it in words to be certain of it. But (1) for thought or knowledge to be linguistic or entwined with language doesn’t entail thinking in words, (2) I think it’s sometimes wrong to say we know things that we’re certain of, things we would never doubt.

Quoting Hanover
Are you allowing for the existence of all types of thought without language?


Do I think all types of thought are sometimes non-linguistic or can exist without language? I’m not even sure if any kind of thought can be said to be independent of language, for a linguistic being. Everything we think is linguistic in some sense, perhaps, but not to the extent that we are literally talking to ourselves silently, i.e., thinking in words.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 16:29 #786965
Quoting Hanover
After catching my breath, I realized that I had instinctively understood that he was laughing at the kid he was beating in the race and he was looking back to see how far ahead he was. That was never put into language for me, nor was it "how to" knowledge. It was a firm understanding of kids, bicycles, country roads, and oncoming cars.


I think it was how-to knowledge.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 16:39 #786968
Quoting Jamal
I think it was how-to knowledge.


I knew you'd say that. In fact, I said it to make you say what you said, like a puppet on a string.

But the first kid looking back was a non-symbolic gesture, communicating to me the second child was on his way. Do we call his looking back a linguistic expression and how does that meaningfully differ had he yelled out "second kid on the way!" ? Obviously the red leaf does not communicate the arrival of autumn in a linguistic way, but it points to the difficulty in determining where language and communication generally begin and end.

If I'm translating the gesture and arriving at the knowledge of an oncoming second child from that and I translate the speed of my car as too fast to avoid a second child, and we call this "how-to", then I don't know where to draw the line either.

Quoting Jamal
I’m not even sure if any kind of thought can be said to be independent of language, for a linguistic being.


What about the car example I just gave?

Jamal March 07, 2023 at 16:46 #786970
Quoting Hanover
But the first kid looking back was a non-symbolic gesture, communicating to me the second child was on his way. Do we call his looking back that a linguistic expression and how does that meaningfully differ had he yelled out "second kid on the way!" ? Obviously the red leaf does not communicate the arrival of autumn in a linguistic way, but it points to the difficulty in determining where language and communication generally begin and end.


I agree.

Quoting Hanover
If I'm translating the gesture and arriving at the knowledge of an oncoming second child from that and I translate the speed of my car as too fast to avoid a second child, and we call this "how-to", then I don't know where to draw the line either.


It seems equally difficult to see it as propositional knowledge. But this is where I have trouble, because to give a proposition as a candidate for a belief, such as “I believed there was another child crossing the road,” is an imposition on an activity after the fact. It’s not identifying anything mental.

Quoting Hanover
What about the car example I just gave?


Not sure. It’s the Shoutbox and I am revelling in inconsistencies. It’s a bit like capitalism.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 16:57 #786973
Quoting universeness
He is simply saying belief is a binary choice, you either accept x is true or not.
Knowledge is justified true BELIEF, so belief to which, you assign a very high credence level, to the extent that if you discover that belief is false, it would 'shake you to your very core.'


No. I don't accept any of this. We've had lots of discussions of justified true belief here before.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 16:57 #786974
Alright, so I'm going to enter some final conclusions now. Enough of the back and forth and it's time for a ruling.

Language is a form of communication and it differs only in degree from all other forms of communication.
So, the red leaf telling us that autumn has arrived is just another way of saying "autumn is on the way." Both are propositional, just the former isn't intentional, as would be the case where a speaker says something. For our purposes the intentional/non-intentional distinction is irrelevant.

"How to knowledge" designations are bad faith attempts drawn by those who wish to preserve the untenable view that all knowledge is propositional except this particular "how to" type. That special class is hereby declared false.

That's my ruling. You can appeal it if you want. I don't care, but that's my rulling. Sometimes it's just better to have finality.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 17:00 #786975
Quoting Hanover
Or I'd say that deep insight and understanding is part of human intuition, meaning we are very good at navigating our world because we are inherently intelligent creatures that are able to process massive amounts of data subconsciously without having to parse everything out in charts and graphs or language of any sort.


I was making the distinction between conscious, language mediated, rational thinking and intuitive thinking which does not use words and generally works below the level of immediate awareness.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 17:03 #786976
Reply to Hanover I accept the ruling even though every one of its constituent statements is false, except for the bit that begins with “That is my ruling,” which I agree with.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 17:11 #786979
If knowing how to x is reworded as having the ability to x, objections to how to knowledge such as in @Hanover’s final ruling might disappear.

But we do call it knowing.

EDIT: It occurs to me that “having the ability to”, though close, doesn’t quite cover it on its own. I think it could be added to to make it work.
T Clark March 07, 2023 at 17:14 #786980
Quoting Hanover
Language is a form of communication and it differs only in degree from all other forms of communication.
So, the red leaf telling us that autumn has arrived is just another way of saying "autumn is on the way." Both are propositional, just the former isn't intentional, as would be the case where a speaker says something. For our purposes the intentional/non-intentional distinction is irrelevant.


I don't know what this means, but I think I probably disagree with it. I do agree with @Jamal that this does, in fact, appear to be your ruling.
Alkis Piskas March 07, 2023 at 18:21 #786988
Quoting javi2541997
It has a gravitational power that drags me into its zone, like a magnet.

How much do you weigh? :grin:
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 18:23 #786989
What I find curious is how there is argument following the final ruling, as if the trial should occur after the verdict. We've reached finality here, not in a perfect sort of way, but in a human, flawed, endearing sort of way, where we can have the assurance of a final decree without having to forever mire ourselves in directionless nuance. What I lay before you isn't knowledge, but wisdom, a way to live your life, a comfort and a blessing, and yet you continue on with your debate, round and round you go, nowhere closer to wherever you were hoping to go than when you started.

javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 18:52 #786992
Quoting Alkis Piskas
How much do you weigh? :grin:


86 Kg (189.6 lbs) :snicker:

By the way, today's dinner: cooked string beans and chicken sausages.
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 19:17 #786995
Quoting javi2541997
86 Kg (189.6 lbs) :snicker:


Ahh, 13.54 stones. That's how I weigh things.
Alkis Piskas March 07, 2023 at 19:28 #786998
Quoting javi2541997
86 Kg (189.6 lbs)

Ah, that's fine. I was myself at 87K until 3-4 months ago. Now I'm either 82 or 83. I cannot actually decide. :grin:

Anyway, don't lean too much forward ... To be on the safe side! :grin:
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 19:38 #787000
Quoting Hanover
Ahh, 13.54 stones. That's how I weigh things.


Ahh, 13,54 piedras. Así es como peso las cosas...

I trolled you because I repeated your words like a jocose child. :razz:
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 19:42 #787001
Reply to Alkis Piskas Yeah, It is important to maintain a healthy weight and state in a good form. I have to visit the doctor one time per month because I always had a tendency to be fat. But that's something from the past because in the last two years I have lost 25 kg and my average weight for the year oscillates between 85 and 87 kg.
Alkis Piskas March 07, 2023 at 19:53 #787004
Quoting javi2541997
my average weight for the year oscillates between 85 and 87 kg.

So, you can't decide either, eh? :smile:
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 20:07 #787008
Quoting Alkis Piskas
So, you can't decide either, eh?


I don't gonna lie, it is difficult to me to keep in the same weight during the year. I, sometimes, eat a lot of bread and cakes. :lol:
Hanover March 07, 2023 at 20:29 #787011
I'm 6'9", 350 lbs, schlong the size of an oak tree. I can run a 3 minute mile and eat nothing but cheese. Don't mean to brag, but I'm quite the specimen.
Jamal March 07, 2023 at 20:30 #787012
Reply to javi2541997

My story so far:

1972: 4 kg
2016: 117 kg
2018: 87 kg
2021: 107kg
2023: 93 kg

Crucial dates here are my birth and my wedding in 2018. Hoping to get down to my original weight over the next thirty or forty years.
javi2541997 March 07, 2023 at 21:10 #787017
Reply to Jamal

we all have ups and downs related to weight... but who cares? we are not athletes.

Hey! I just made a couplet!
universeness March 07, 2023 at 21:45 #787020
I think this oak tree with a 3 inch tall trunk, is called the Hanoverian bonsai.
User image
0 thru 9 March 07, 2023 at 21:57 #787023
Quoting Hanover
But the first kid looking back was a non-symbolic gesture, communicating to me the second child was on his way. Do we call his looking back a linguistic expression and how does that meaningfully differ had he yelled out "second kid on the way!" ? Obviously the red leaf does not communicate the arrival of autumn in a linguistic way, but it points to the difficulty in determining where language and communication generally begin and end.


Great story. :up: Moral: everything is energy, mannnnn! :victory: :love: :flower:
T Clark March 08, 2023 at 00:22 #787050
Quoting Hanover
I'm 6'9", 350 lbs, schlong the size of an oak tree. I can run a 3 minute mile and eat nothing but cheese. Don't mean to brag, but I'm quite the specimen.


I think perhaps It's the marbles and chicken bones.
Caldwell March 08, 2023 at 04:17 #787075
Quoting universeness
I think this oak tree with a 3 inch tall trunk, is called the Hanoverian bonsai.

:snicker:

@Hanover :flower:
javi2541997 March 08, 2023 at 05:40 #787093
I woke up with the sound of the rain. A while ago that it hadn't been rain in Madrid.
Breakfast: two slices of whole bread with virgin oil and tomato (as always) and Turkish coffee.
Alkis Piskas March 08, 2023 at 05:40 #787094
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 06:12 #787100
I woke up to the silence of snowfall. I could hear the silence because it’s women’s day, a national holiday, so there’s very little traffic on the streets.

User image

“Down with kitchen slavery! Let there be new household life.” Circa 1930.

Omelette with a lot of cheese.
universeness March 08, 2023 at 08:39 #787137
Reply to Caldwell
Did you notice, there was also a definite bell end at the top of the small trunk? Soooooooo Hanoverian! :joke:
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 10:43 #787158
I awoke to the violent thumping of rabbits outside my window, their fangs clanging against the bending reinforced steel bars, not sure how much longer they'd be kept away, in a cold sweat, finger on the trigger, wondering who'll eventually prevail. Either way, this will be a hell of a Wednesday.

Fruity Pebbles cereal and a slab of cold bacon.
Fred Flinstone, why do you mock me?
universeness March 08, 2023 at 10:56 #787161
Quoting Hanover
Fred Flinstone, why do you mock me?


Humble thyself, lest thy god judge ye harshly, and turn thy small bell end into wood.
REMEMBER, all flesh is grass! :halo:
javi2541997 March 08, 2023 at 11:12 #787167
Quoting Hanover
Fruity Pebbles cereal and a slab of cold bacon.


:up:

I think I never seen those cereals in Mercadona or AhorraMás. (if these supermarkets don't have "fruity pebbles" means that it is impossible to find them in Spain)

User image
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 11:45 #787171
Quoting javi2541997
think I never seen those cereals in Mercadona or AhorraMás. (if these supermarkets don't have "fruity pebbles" means that it is impossible to find them in Spain)


You can always order it online. That massive box should satisfy your Fruity Pebbles needs for at least a few weeks.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 11:48 #787173
Quoting Jamal
My story so far:

1972: 4 kg
[snip]
Hoping to get down to my original weight over the next thirty or forty years.


Don't do it! Go see a shrink about your anorexia!


Hanover March 08, 2023 at 11:51 #787174
Quoting Jamal
My story so far:

1972: 4 kg
2016: 117 kg
2018: 87 kg
2021: 107kg
2023: 93 kg

Crucial dates here are my birth and my wedding in 2018. Hoping to get down to my original weight over the next thirty or forty years.


Deceptively reduced your weight, found a spouse, plumped back up. Well played.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 11:54 #787176
Quoting Hanover
Deceptively reduced your weight, found a spouse, plumped back up. Well played.


Hey, don't belittle my recent success. 2023: 93 kg.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 11:57 #787178
Quoting unenlightened
Don't do it! Go see a shrink about your anorexia!


The average weight of a human skeleton is 9 kg, so I won't be getting down to 4 kg any time in the next few decades. Unless I'm cremated. The average weight of human ashes is around 3 kg :up:
javi2541997 March 08, 2023 at 12:07 #787182
Quoting Hanover
That massive box should satisfy your Fruity Pebbles needs for at least a few weeks.


I wish our supermarkets sell big packages like that one, indeed! :up:
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 13:03 #787197
Quoting Jamal
The average weight of a human skeleton is 9 kg, so I won't be getting down to 4 kg any time in the next few decades. Unless I'm cremated. The average weight of human ashes is around 3 kg


The reason the unburned body weighs 5 kg more than the ashes is due to the removal of the weight of the soul upon death.

One way therefore to quickly reduce your weight is to sell your soul away, but I don't recommend that because that typically ends with your having to do something you'd rather not, but just know that option is there if you need to fit into an old suit for some reason.
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 13:03 #787199
Quoting javi2541997
I wish our supermarkets sell big packages like that one, indeed!


That's the Sam's Club version, for sure.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 13:07 #787202
Quoting Hanover
The reason the unburned body weighs 5 kg more than the ashes is due to the removal of the weight of the soul upon death.

One way therefore to quickly reduce your weight is to sell your soul away, but I don't recommend that because that typically ends with your having to do something you'd rather not, but just know that option is there if you need to fit into an old suit for some reason.


This is an option I hadn't considered. Thanks :up:
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 13:12 #787203
Quoting Hanover
One way therefore to quickly reduce your weight is to sell your soul away, but I don't recommend


Is renting an option?
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 13:50 #787212
Quoting unenlightened
Is renting an option?


It is, but there are many unscrupulous folks coming to rent souls, and you can't be sure of safe return, or at least in having them returned just as you rented them out. I made a good profit on mine, but I noticed since getting it back, I have a serious problem with dishonesty that I didn't previously have, so I'm thinking there was some tinkering.

Oh well, live and learn.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 14:25 #787219
Or die and forget.
0 thru 9 March 08, 2023 at 15:47 #787240
Quoting javi2541997
That massive box should satisfy your Fruity Pebbles needs for at least a few weeks.
— Hanover

I wish our supermarkets sell big packages like that one, indeed! :up:


The first giant bowl of this kandy-koloured kiddie kocaine is always the best. However, one may soon find themselves in a dumpster behind a grocery store, scavenging for more, and fighting off raccoons. Very delicious though, and a part of a complete breakfast! :razz:
T Clark March 08, 2023 at 16:32 #787249
Quoting Hanover
not sure how much longer they'd be kept away,


I've read that if you spread marbles and chicken bones around your house, it will keep killer rabbits away.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 17:46 #787267
Quoting Hanover
Sam's Club


Sam’s Club: “an American chain of membership-only retail warehouse clubs owned and operated by Walmart Inc., founded in 1983 and named after Walmart founder Sam Walton as Sam’s Wholesale Club”

Warehouse club: “a retail store, usually selling a wide variety of merchandise, in which customers may buy large, wholesale quantities of the store's products, which makes these clubs attractive to both bargain hunters and small business owners.”

Ah, I’ve been to those places.

So what you meant was that it was a really big box like you get in a warehouse club retail store.

Whoever said the Shoutbox was hard work wasn’t kidding. But I’m learning.
javi2541997 March 08, 2023 at 17:48 #787269
Quoting 0 thru 9
Very delicious though, and a part of a complete breakfast! :razz:


Breakfast is indeed the most important meal of the day. So, if it complements the diet, I will eat them along with rye bread. Hmm... A while ago that I don't consume cereals, now that we are debating on this aliment. We don't have such special cereals here; most of them are boring and tasteless.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 17:52 #787270
Quoting javi2541997
Breakfast is indeed the most important meal of the day


Disagree!

There is no conclusive evidence to suggest whether breakfast is the most important meal of the day and, therefore important to consider personal circumstances and preferences. For example, those who are pre-diabetic and diabetic may find consuming a lower GI breakfast beneficial and help them concentrate better


https://www.news-medical.net/health/Is-Breakfast-the-Most-Important-Meal-of-the-Day.aspx

I sometimes skip breakfast, so I’m biased.
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 17:58 #787273
Quoting Jamal
what you meant was that it was a really big box like you get in a warehouse club retail store.


Yeah, like Costco.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:02 #787275
Reply to Hanover I’ve heard that mentioned by Americans, without really knowing what it was. Thanks.
javi2541997 March 08, 2023 at 18:04 #787276
Reply to Jamal Oh Jesus! That information destroyed a myth about which I always believed.
Pros and cons of being a hard worker at shoutbox.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:04 #787277
Reply to javi2541997 You can’t work in the Shoutbox if you can’t handle the truth. :cool:
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 18:07 #787279
Quoting Jamal
I’ve heard that mentioned by Americans, without really knowing what it was. Thanks.


Also, something else you might not know, if you go there, the cashiers like to be called fucktards. Be sure to do that so they'll treat you better.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 18:13 #787281
Breakfast: a handful of cashews. :brow:
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 18:18 #787283
For example, those who are pre-diabetic and diabetic may find consuming a lower GI breakfast beneficial and help them concentrate better


Your continued reference to GI index, food, and weight leads me to believe diabetes is on your mind.

Next, I suspect I'll be hearing about treadmills or how you're cleaning up your bicycle.

@Jamal
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:22 #787287
Reply to Hanover Oh my bicycles are always ready to go.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 18:35 #787292
The real question is what to get for lunch today. Because of my odd work schedule, Wednesday is usually take out day. Last week it was Senegalese, this week I’m feeling uninspired. I’ll probably just end up with a bodega sandwich*.

*more shit to know for those who don’t.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:40 #787294
Reply to Noble Dust In my world, a bodega is a wine cellar. Never noticed if they sold sandwiches.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 18:41 #787296
Reply to Jamal

Bodega has a different meaning in NYC. This one requires a lot of hard work.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:42 #787297
Reply to Noble Dust Shoutbox coworkers share knowledge freely.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 18:45 #787299
Reply to Jamal

Damn, you're right. It's just a corner store. Some of them have a deli counter and make sandwiches that range from kinda gross to somehow really tasty.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 18:49 #787300
Reply to Noble Dust I love cornershop sandwiches, especially when they’re a bit old and soggy. They have a special something, impossible to recreate at home or by the finest chefs.

But we’re talking about different things here. A deli counter in a corner shop is the very definition of exotic sophistication where I’m from.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 18:58 #787301
Reply to Jamal

Are these cornershop sandwiches pre made?
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 19:05 #787302
Reply to Noble Dust

Now look ND, before you judge me remember I’m from the UK, where as young lads and lassies we develop an affection for foods that others in the world might recoil from. That said…yes, the ones in the triangular packages. Like this or worse:

User image

Not like this:

User image
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 19:16 #787306
Reply to Jamal

You can find pre-packaged sandwiches like that in grocery stores here. But yes, every time I enjoy a bodega sandwich I like to do so with a checkered table cloth, a cold beer, and surrounded by the raw ingredients I'm now consuming in cooked form.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 19:18 #787307
Reply to Noble Dust :rofl:

That’s exactly how I imagined you.
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 19:42 #787314
Reply to Noble Dust Is that your nail polished adorned hand or is that the hand of a paid sandwich model?
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 19:44 #787316
Reply to Hanover

It's both.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 19:45 #787317
Quoting Noble Dust
Are these cornershop sandwiches pre made?


They have to be pre-made, otherwise it's just cold food with bread and butter. I used to pre-make sandwiches amongst other services in the hotel I worked in, complete with the little triangular boxes, which came in big cardboard boxes of 2000. Available from your packaging wholesaler, so you can pre-make your own.

But look at trendy Jamal, with his biodegradable sandwiches and granary bread! But I can't see any of the people they claim are in them?
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 19:47 #787319
Quoting unenlightened
But I can't see any of the people they claim are in them?


There are different types of ham...
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 19:59 #787327
Once I was on a train from England to Scotland and they had a cart of pre-packaged sandwiches. The one I choose was of chopped grey pieces of meat swimming in mayonnaise. It tasted pretty terrible, but I'm not picky.

The man handed it to me with his bright pink painted nails, releasing it with a giggle onto my barely satin covered lap, and he then brushed the back of his knuckes against my cheek and fluttered his fingers in my ear canal. Our gazes caught one another and we stayed motionless for what seemed an eternity, our jaws ajar, counting the time from the sound of the train bouncing down the track.

A satin tent formed, and I tried to quell it with the coldness of the sandwich, only to complicate matters from the slippery slidiness of the mayo and gray meat flecks bringing now to the brink. I opened my mouth wider, the sound of a raven caw emitted, startling the elderly woman next to me, resulting in a similar tent formation under her flowery dress.

I thought to myself at this moment, "Hanover, you're a long way from home."



Hanover March 08, 2023 at 20:00 #787330
The grey meat sandwich part was true. The rest maybe less so.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 20:08 #787334
Quoting unenlightened
But I can't see any of the people they claim are in them?


I see now that you interpret “sandwich people,” and probably “ice cream man” and “egg man,” on the model of “gingerbread man.” The difference is that gingerbread men are real men made of gingerbread, whereas the others are not.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 20:12 #787336
Quoting Hanover
jaws ajar


:sparkle:

I enjoyed the hint of magical realism introduced with the raven’s caw.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 20:35 #787345
Quoting Jamal
The difference is that gingerbread men are real men made of gingerbread, whereas the others are not.


In my day the milkman, the coal man and the bin man were all accorded the dignity of existence, and a tip at Christmas. But now the sandwich man is not a real man. I'm so disappointed
T Clark March 08, 2023 at 20:40 #787351
Quoting unenlightened
But now the sandwich man is not a real man.


Did you notice that the sandwich man is a soldier in the Salvation Army?
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 20:42 #787352
Reply to T Clark It doesn't help though; the Salvation Army is not a real army.
T Clark March 08, 2023 at 20:53 #787357
Quoting unenlightened
the Salvation Army is not a real army.


And it looks to me that's not a real sandwich.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 20:55 #787358
Reply to T Clark That explains everything! It's like God's will!
Hanover March 08, 2023 at 21:16 #787367
Quoting unenlightened
It doesn't help though; the Salvation Army is not a real army.


Is there a Salvation Marines?
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 21:23 #787375
Todays bodega sandwich:

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo?album_id=6912302309&photo_id=505370629571

It’s not authentic unless they forget the mustard. :victory:
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 21:27 #787378
Reply to Noble Dust Eager to see your bodega sandwich I avidly clicked on the link, only to get a 403 error (forbidden) and "The request could not be satisfied". I assume it's because my VPN's not working again. Is there a bunch of techies in a room somewhere in Moscow right now shutting down VPN routes? Is that how it works? How do they do that? I should probably know that stuff.

Another issue: wolfmen are men, but also wolves, or else they are part wolf, part man. I don't think this can be applied to sandwich people, milkmen, or gingerbread men.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 21:30 #787380
Reply to Jamal what about this:

https://www.photobox.co.uk/my/photo/full?photo_id=505370629571
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 21:31 #787381
Reply to Noble Dust Same. Can you fax it to me?
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 21:34 #787382
Reply to Jamal

Better yet I’ll print it out and mail it to you.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 21:36 #787384
Reply to Noble Dust Wonderful.

Jamal
1 Red Square
BC March 08, 2023 at 21:49 #787391
Quoting unenlightened
They have to be pre-made


How can something be "pre-made"? If it hasn't been made, then it isn't. If it has been made, then it is. Some for "pre-pare", "pre-sliced", "pre-chopped", "pre-bendiary", or "pre-sident?
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 21:51 #787393
Reply to BC I like it when they make my sandwich after I’ve eaten it.
BC March 08, 2023 at 21:55 #787397
Reply to Jamal Vlad will get it before you do; you'll be sent to Siberia for not bringing him the actual sandwich. Vlad is a hungry lad.

By the way, the technical glitch with Noble Dust's sandwich lies between his ears, Apparently he doesn't know how to capture and post the picture. What he posted is a link to a mug-printing website. Mug as in receptacle for coffee.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 21:57 #787398
Quoting BC
Mug as in receptacle for coffee


This was my favourite bit.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 22:03 #787405
Reply to BC

If this morning I was visualizing and crafting the bodega sandwich of my glutinous dreams before I placed my order with the dude and made it so, at what point in time can it be said to have come into existence?
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 22:33 #787416
Imagine egg salad but made with scrambled eggs. Sorry.
unenlightened March 08, 2023 at 22:55 #787422


Quoting BC
How can something be "pre-made"? If it hasn't been made, then it isn't. If it has been made, then it is. Some for "pre-pare", "pre-sliced", "pre-chopped", "pre-bendiary", or "pre-sident?


That's why everything that is must necessarily have been previously made, either by the God of Sandwiches, or some lessor deity. Even your post, poor though it is, has been pre-made either by yourself or the postman. @Jamal is a postman sceptic, but he will be proved wrong at the last post when all deliveries will be returned to Sender.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 23:19 #787430
Quoting Noble Dust
Imagine egg salad but made with scrambled eggs. Sorry.


8 months ago you attacked my ham, egg, and quail’s egg mayo sandwich because you thought I meant the eggs were scrambled. Now, you still can’t get it out of your head.
Jamal March 08, 2023 at 23:42 #787434
When I get an itch and it’s awkward to reach at the time, I wait for it to go away. If it doesn’t, I feel some respect and admiration for the itch. I’m impressed by its tenacity and I no longer dismiss it as a minor irritation. Sometimes I even talk to it, e.g., “respect” or “fair enough, good for you.” With a certain deference and without resentment, I make whatever rearrangements I need to make to scratch it.
Noble Dust March 08, 2023 at 23:49 #787436
Reply to Jamal

I'm a haunted man.
Moliere March 09, 2023 at 03:38 #787486
Reply to Jamal So brave.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 04:43 #787490
Quoting Jamal
When I get an itch and it’s awkward to reach at the time, I wait for it to go away. If it doesn’t, I feel some respect and admiration for the itch. I’m impressed by its tenacity and I no longer dismiss it as a minor irritation. Sometimes I even talk to it, e.g., “respect” or “fair enough, good for you.” With a certain deference and without resentment, I make whatever rearrangements I need to make to scratch it.


Yes...well...hmm...This explains a lot.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 05:15 #787500
Quoting BC
By the way, the technical glitch with Noble Dust's sandwich lies between his ears, Apparently he doesn't know how to capture and post the picture. What he posted is a link to a mug-printing website. Mug as in receptacle for coffee.


Woah, I did that from my phone and assumed you were making a joke, but I just got home and saw it's true (sort of). :yikes: As this is a very high priority matter, I will try to resolve it as soon as possible.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 05:24 #787501
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 05:25 #787502
Quoting T Clark
Yes...well...hmm


One of my favorite sayings.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 05:40 #787503
Quoting Noble Dust
Bodega sandwich attempt 2


That bread looks crunchy, and the products themselves are tasty. It is a fact that we should consider: putting lettuce in a sandwich is mandatory. What would be the opposite? 

I think tomato and lettuce are the main ingredients that make substantial sandwiches. The other products are accessory.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 05:41 #787504
Well, I don't want to write what I took for breakfast because you all already probably know.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 05:47 #787505
Quoting javi2541997
That bread looks crunchy


Ha, it's not, unfortunately. They do toast it a bit, so there's some crunch, but bodega bread is not great. We eat it anyway, though, and we sort of love it here. The cold cuts and cheese are always reliable, however. Yes, despite being a tomato lover, I find lettuce to be the priority on a sandwich. If given the choice between only lettuce or only tomato (in addition to meat, cheese and condiments) I would choose lettuce (unless tomatoes are in season). I'm not totally sure why. But obviously they're best together, and ideally complimented with something pickled, like banana peppers, as found on that particular sandwich.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 05:52 #787506
Quoting Noble Dust
Ha, it's not, unfortunately. They do toast it a bit, so there's some crunch, but bodega bread is not great. We eat it anyway, though, and we sort of love it here.


A falta de pan, buenas son tortas!

Quoting Noble Dust
If given the choice between only lettuce or only tomato (in addition to meat, cheese and condiments) I would choose lettuce (unless tomatoes are in season).


Yeah, I would choose lettuce instead of tomatoes if I had to sacrifice one of them. Lettuce has a special taste that is weird to describe or explain, but when you put it on a sandwich, it changes the taste.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 05:56 #787509
Quoting javi2541997
A falta de pan, buenas son tortas!


Ha! I think of a torta as a sandwich in itself. What does it mean regionally in Spain?

Quoting javi2541997
Lettuce has a special taste that is weird to describe or explain, but when you put it on a sandwich, it changes the taste.


Yeah, I think you need the vegetal freshness. Tomato provides acidity, but so do things like mustard and pickled vegetables. Good tomatoes also have a meaty quality which enhances the actual meat on the sandwich, but basically, acidity and meatiness are things you can achieve with other ingredients. Lettuce, or any green leaf, brings something different. That said, I think tomatoes are more important on vegetarian sandwiches. Can you tell I think about food too much?
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 06:06 #787510
Quoting Noble Dust
Ha! I think of a torta as a sandwich in itself. What does it mean regionally in Spain?


Hehe, a torta is another type of bread. It is thin, harsh, round and mostly made with sugar. Here is a pic of a torta:

User image

Quoting Noble Dust
Can you tell I think about food too much?


Yes, so I do as well. Food and recipes are very important. We need to feed us to survive, so it is normal to have a lot of thoughts on food flowing in our minds. Whenever I finish my dinner, I suddenly start to think about the lunch of the following day.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 06:08 #787511
Quoting javi2541997
I think tomato and lettuce are the main ingredients that make substantial sandwiches.


In the US, it's hard to get a good tomato. Even in growing season, most delis still use hard, grey ones. My son's farm sells organic tomatoes to the local Superette, but they still use tennis ball tomatoes on their sandwiches.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 06:14 #787513
Quoting javi2541997
Hehe, a torta is another type of bread. It is thin, harsh, round and mostly made with sugar. Here is a pic of a torta:


Mostly sugar? Is it a dessert item? It looks unleavened.

Quoting javi2541997
Yes, so I do as well. Food and recipes are very important. We need to feed us to survive, so it is normal to have a lot of thoughts on food flowing in our minds. Whenever I finish my dinner, I suddenly start to think about the lunch of the following day.


At the risk of sounding painfully American, I love the European attitude towards food. I aspire to it. Thankfully, my mom's side of the family (Scandinavian) are also food-obsessed, so I like to think it comes naturally. I do worry that there's a socioeconomic component to foody-ism, but then I remind myself I'm always broke, and then I feel vindicated in a twisted way.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 06:20 #787515
Surely “torta”, which is related to “tart”, is something to do with cakes.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 06:27 #787520
Reply to Jamal

In Mexico, and so in the US, it's a sandwich. I had one once; it was good but it didn't blow me away. I need to reassess.

Jamal March 09, 2023 at 06:32 #787521
Reply to Noble Dust By the way I was able to see your bodega sandwich. Looks tasty. What was in it aside from lettuce? Looks like melted cheese.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 06:38 #787522
Reply to T Clark It is hard to get a good tomato here too. The land and harvest are managed by big companies and industries that do not care about the care of tomatoes.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 06:39 #787524
Quoting Noble Dust
Mostly sugar? Is it a dessert item? It looks unleavened


It is a dessert, yes. But you can take it in the breakfast if you want to! :up:
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 06:43 #787525
Reply to Jamal

Regular turkey (meaning plane roasted turkey cold cuts), provolone, lettuce tomato, banana peppers, and mayo, and the classic lack of mustard that I requested. Every damn time. Made "hot", usually meaning they throw the meat and cheese on a flat top grill that they cook all sorts of shit in, so you sometimes get "unique" flavors and colors added to your food. Generally the bun is sent through a rotary toaster to warm it, then the cold ingredients are assembled on top at the end. These sandwiches hit you like crack cocaine, and, true to form, you generally feel like shit by the end of it. Wouldn't have it any other way.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 06:45 #787527
Reply to javi2541997

I like the verb "take" in regards to eating. In America I would say "I had tomato toast for breakfast". But saying I "took tomato toast for breakfast" has a romantic ring to it. I plan on adopting the phrase.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 06:51 #787529
Reply to Noble Dust Yes, languages are beautiful and it helps us to understand the world in a better way.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 06:55 #787531
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 08:11 #787545
Reply to Noble Dust

I like that. I also like, but cannot use in the UK without seeming rude, the way of ordering in restaurants and cafés like “gimme a club sandwich”. In the UK we have to say “If you please good sir/madam, gimme a club sandwich.”
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 08:50 #787550
Quoting Jamal
“gimme a club sandwich”


I'm not sure what culture that refers to, but I did notice that every time I eat out with my brother, he says "let me get X". My parents, who are good people, I swear, have become senile and just say "Chicken parm" with a weird look on their faces. In NYC, the joke is "lemme get uhhhhhhhhh" and then you say what you want. :brow:
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 09:10 #787554
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm not sure what culture that refers to


The America of my imagination is clearly an unreliable approximation of the real thing.
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 09:18 #787556
Reply to Jamal

:lol:

"Gimme a club sandwich" would be unequivocally understood as rude anywhere in America. The "lemme get" is somehow ok. That's not to say there aren't strange social mores that might seem rude but are understood to be polite here. Particularly in NYC, I can think of a bodega by my work ( where I don't get the sandwiches, because they suck) where I do get canned iced coffee from time to time. The Yemeni owner of the shop is very curt, but I can tell he's a good man; I've shopped there since they opened, and now his greeting has changed from "hey" to "hey brother". Big win.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 09:23 #787557
Reply to Noble Dust Ok cool, I’m learning. The Yemenis of New York are rude and don’t know how to make a good sandwich, but they have hearts of gold. :up:
Noble Dust March 09, 2023 at 09:28 #787558
Reply to Jamal

Pretty sure the sandwich guy at that spot is Dominican, but otherwise yeah. NYC is complicated.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 09:30 #787559
Reply to Noble Dust Life is a rich tapestry ND, and a meatball is a meatball.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 12:28 #787585
Lunch: beans accompanied by mushrooms, peppers, carrots, turnips and cabbage.

Today's healthy meal.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 15:56 #787632
For dinner last night, I had beef sirloin tips seasoned with a Korean sauce cooked on the griddle with broccoli, green peppers, and onions. I seasoned the vegetables with soy sauce and let the broccoli steam under a lid to soften it and to capture the saltiness of the soy sauce.

I made enough vegetables that I didn't need any rice, as I try to avoid that due to its high glycemic index score.

For a guy who pretends to be a backwoods farmer, I'm actually a pretty good cook. You never really know what sort of truth you're getting with me though, as has been pointed out from time to time.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:09 #787639
Quoting javi2541997
Lunch: beans accompanied by mushrooms, peppers, carrots, turnips and cabbage.

Today's healthy meal.


That's a pauper's lunch. A thin soup of boiled onion and pine needles would go well with that.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 16:11 #787640
Quoting javi2541997
It is hard to get a good tomato here too. The land and harvest are managed by big companies and industries that do not care about the care of tomatoes.


I'm surprised. Everyone I know who has been to Spain says the food is wonderful.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:12 #787641
Quoting T Clark
I'm surprised. Everyone I know who has been to Spain says the food is wonderful.


You've not indicated you know anyone who has been to Spain, so it's possible that your sample size of zero provides you no useful information.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:13 #787642
Today is Thursday. Ornery day.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 16:17 #787643
Quoting Hanover
You've not indicated you know anyone who has been to Spain, so it's possible that your sample size of zero provides you no useful information.


I'm trying to come up with a clever response. No luck so far. I'll get back to you.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 16:19 #787645
Quoting Hanover
That's a pauper's lunch.


It is indeed. My mother cooks such a lunch because she was taught by my grandparents when she was a child, and my grandpas suffered a lot of hunger and scarcity after the Spanish civil war (more if you were part of the losing side).
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 16:22 #787646
Reply to T Clark Our food is wonderful, yes. Those people didn't lie to you. But it is hard to find the products because they are bought by important restaurants or rich countries such as the UK, Sweden, Norway, etc. For example, the British enterprise Minute Maid buys all the Spanish oranges. I don't know when was the last time I ate an orange from Valencia and not from Morocco...
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:31 #787648
Not sure if I mentioned to you guys I got a griddle. I highly recommend it. It has changed my life.

Here's the one I got: https://blackstoneproducts.com/products/original-36in-griddle-w-hood

I've cooked steaks on it as well, but if you get one with bone-in (like a T-bone), it's hard to get full meat contact with the surface.

In order to meet the Shoutbox standards, I've done much research for this next post, so I hope it is appreciated.

In the US (i.e. the land of the free and home of the brave, see "Star Spangled Banner" by Francis Scott Key), we have what are referred to as habachi restaraunts. Those establishments purport to be purveyors of Japanese food, where the food is cooked on a large open griddle. Be warned however. That is not true habachi. True habachi I am to learn refers to cooking over an open flame of some sort. What we in the US (see reference above to what this means) call habachi is (sit down, cuz this will blow your mind) called teppanyaki.

Here's how that works. A guy takes an egg and he spins it on the griddle and he calls it a Japanese egg roll. Then he flips cooked shrimp from his spatula into your open mouth, but he'll flip a few into his chef's hat too to everyone's delight. Then he takes a bunch of cut onion rings and stacks them on top of eachother and pours something flammable in it and he lights it and calls it a Japanese volcano and it cinges your eyelashes. Everyone again laughs in delight.

It might be, as my research has revealed, that that is not really how Japanese people eat. Most disappointing.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:32 #787649
Quoting T Clark
I'm trying to come up with a clever response.


If you do, it will die of loneliness.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 16:34 #787650
When my kids used to say "Dad, I have an idea," I'd say "did it die of loneliness?" That kept them mean and wanting, fully ready for life. Where's my thank you?
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 16:54 #787655
Quoting Hanover
If you do, it will die of loneliness.


Hold on there. I'm still working on my first comeback. So far, I've got "My brain in Spain...." I'm trying to fit "maintain," "quatrain," or "multigrain," in there somewhere.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 17:00 #787657
Quoting Jamal
I like that. I also like, but cannot use in the UK without seeming rude, the way of ordering in restaurants and cafés like “gimme a club sandwich”. In the UK we have to say “If you please good sir/madam, gimme a club sandwich.”


I was visiting France with my brother. We were in a restaurant and, trying to use my high school French, I said "Je veux un autre bier, s'il vous plait." My brother corrected me and said it should be "Je voudrais un autre bier, s'il vous plait."
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 17:09 #787661
Reply to javi2541997 The last few winters in Denia I’ve seen mountains of rotting oranges, so there are in fact many Valencian oranges in Spain that haven’t been bought by foreign companies. It’s just that they cannot be sold.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 17:25 #787664
Quoting Hanover
Not sure if I mentioned to you guys I got a griddle


I think you mentioned it. It looks nice but I have gone back to basics and now only cook on a Russian mangal with wood.

User image

Second best for me would be a Weber charcoal grill. I used to roast lamb legs in one of those.
T Clark March 09, 2023 at 17:51 #787672
Since we're comparing favorite cooking equipment:

User image

To be honest, my real one's not nearly that nice. It's all covered with duct tape and splatters of Velveeta brand cheese food.
javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 17:53 #787674
Quoting Jamal
It’s just that they cannot be sold.


That's true! The Euorpean Union's standards of aliments and products is another issue to consider of!
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 18:50 #787683
Quoting Jamal
Second best for me would be a Weber charcoal grill. I used to roast lamb legs in one of those.


That grill is particularly stupid for a few reasons. First, it has not top, which means that the smoke and heat can't be concentrated on the food. Second, it has no vent underneath the fire, which can affect the heat of the fire, and it it makes it much more difficult to clean. Third, the use of logs will require a longer period of time to burn down the wood into charcoal than if it just used charcoal. Fourth, the size of the wood would make it more difficult to change the height of the fire as opposed to how charcoal would work.

In sum, it's stupid, and no one should use that, lamb legs or otherwise.

So ORDERED this ninth day of March, 2023.

The Honorable Hanover Jebidiah "Oaktree Schlong" Beauregard, III.

Jamal March 09, 2023 at 18:56 #787687
Reply to Hanover I assume you mean the mangal and not the Weber. I can mount a point-by-point defence but I can’t be bothered right now. Suffice it to say they would not be the standard outdoor cooking method all over the Middle East, the Caucasus, Central Asia, Russia, and parts of Southern Europe if they didn’t work real good.

Actually I will make one point. The fact that the wood takes a long time to burn down is a bonus. You have time outdoors around a wood fire for a couple of hours before the food goes on. And it imparts great flavour. And wood just feels nicer and more satisfying to work with.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 19:09 #787691
Quoting Jamal
Actually I will make one point. The fact that the wood takes a long time to burn down is a bonus. You have time outdoors around a wood fire for a couple of hours before the food goes on. And it imparts great flavour. And wood just feels nicer and more satisfying to work with.


Those are multiple points, not just one. So I'll begin by denying your first point that there is only one point. My next response is to go back to the point you made before your first point, which I shall enumerate point zero, which is that there are many parts of the world where that grille is standard, so it must be good. I point out that murder is known the world over, and so, by the force of your logic, it too must be good.

I now pause for you to recover from this embarassment.

Next, with regard to the "great flavor," that is an important point, and one I had not thought of. I got so keyed up with other issues, I overlooked the question of taste and how that was actually the most significant issue of all.

I admit I have been bested in that regard.

I will now search the internet for a log holder with a tray on top of it and use that for my cooking needs, and I will even pay expedited shipping costs from Bahkikaistan so that it will arrive just in time for my 75th birthday.

I withdraw that last sentence. It was snarky. I guess I could have just deleted it, instead of saying I want to withdraw it, but my delete key was removed from my keyboard as far as anyone is concerned.
BC March 09, 2023 at 19:15 #787694
Reply to Noble Dust Oh! You were using a phone. Sorry. As smart as phones are alleged to be, for some tasks they are obstinate idiots. Actually, I don't know how to obtain the address of an image on a phone. I might do 3 full-faced grovels in the dirty March slush as an apology.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 19:21 #787697
Reply to Hanover Touché.

I will make one or possibly more points though. When I said “Actually I will make one point” I assumed you’d be able to see that what appear to be separate points are grouped under an encompassing single point that answered your criticism of the use of wood, which was itself one point. I agree it was ambiguous and that I should have said “Actually I will respond to one of your points.”
BC March 09, 2023 at 19:29 #787700
Quoting Jamal
You have time outdoors around a wood fire for a couple of hours before the food goes on.


Two hours! Hey, we're starving here.

BTW, frequent meals cooked over glowing coals or flames raises the risk of gastrointestinal cancer. So, donate to the Electric Frypan Fund for Russian and Caucasian Peasants. Aromatic hydrocarbons will get you.

Besides, the outdoor is over-rated. There are blood-sucking parasites flying around, the air is dense with smoke from all those cook-outs, and sitting on logs is risky when drinking for two hours, waiting for the fire to burn down.
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 19:35 #787702
Reply to BC Needless to say, you won’t be getting an invitation to my next one.
BC March 09, 2023 at 19:38 #787703
Reply to Jamal God is merciful!
Jamal March 09, 2023 at 20:03 #787707
Quoting javi2541997
languages are beautiful and it helps us to understand the world in a better way


Yes, I certainly felt I gained a deeper appreciation of reality when I spoke my first word, which was “meatballs”. Hitherto I had not grasped the concept of a plurality of things, but Uncle Peter’s diverse array of meatballs allowed me to see the world afresh, a world full, not just of meatballs, but of all kinds of things.

I don’t know if you’re aware, but in British English we call this “talking bollocks”.
Benkei March 09, 2023 at 20:58 #787721
Funny. ChatGPT made a grammatical error. I hadn't expect it to do so. Exchange attached.
BC March 09, 2023 at 21:29 #787729
Quoting Noble Dust
you generally feel like shit by the end of it


There are certain instances of eating that one regrets the moment it is over. It isn't that the food makes one sick. These are not toxic, botulinus infested death dishes. One is just very hungry and suddenly some fragrant fast-food grease scent wafts across one's nose. Before one can stop one's self, a thing has been wolfed down. One might feel better if one hadn't swallowed it whole, but the main thing is that the gut's nervous system registers shock and disgust. "What did we do to deserve this... greasy, salty, oniony, charred thing?" One feels guilt, disgust, and revulsion -- but hunger has abated.

javi2541997 March 09, 2023 at 21:43 #787733
Quoting Jamal
I don’t know if you’re aware, but in British English we call this “talking bollocks”.


I know the expression. The problem is that I don't really know when I can use it. As a basic concept, I describe "talking bollocks" as speaking or talking with nonsense. But it seems that it has both positive and negative connotations.

I remember that in a English learning book of mine this expression appeared. It was about a political speech and the ending was "he talked dog's bollocks" (or something related...:lol: ) I thought it was referring that the speech of the politician had zero value or was senseless.
Hanover March 09, 2023 at 22:09 #787738
Quoting Benkei
Funny. ChatGPT made a grammatical error. I hadn't expect it to do so. Exchange attached.


That just shows how human it is. It's like the only way to tell a synthetic diamond from a naturally occurring one is that the synthetic one is without flaws, so this is how they further fool you.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 01:01 #787772
Kielbasa, sauerkraut, chopped zucchini, with cajun seasoning heated in covered skillet until zucchini tender.

Shockingly delicious.



T Clark March 10, 2023 at 02:44 #787783
Quoting Jamal
I don’t know if you’re aware, but in British English we call this “talking bollocks”.


Whew.. Before I read this sentence, I thought @Hanover had gotten ahold of your password again.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 02:45 #787784
Reply to javi2541997 Well, nobody can accuse English of internal consistency.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 02:52 #787789
Reply to T Clark The differences between us are clear to the trained eye. It’s true that we both talk bollocks, but our respective bollocks have different flavours and textures. Hanover would not use the word “hitherto,” for example.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 02:56 #787792
I had a real man’s dinner of beef, potatoes, and beer.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 02:59 #787794
Quoting Jamal
The differences between us are clear to the trained eye. It’s true that we both talk bollocks, but our respective bollocks have different flavours and textures. Hanover would not use the word “hitherto,” for example.


I think "...when I spoke my first word, which was “meatballs”..." is a classic Hanoverism. I took a class in textual redaction in college, so I definitely know what I'm talking about.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 03:03 #787799
Reply to T Clark Fair point.

But at the same time I was referring back to the earlier meatballs, which were entirely my own. What you might say is that like some kind of insidious shapeshifting parasite, I mimic the styles of others while introducing my own content.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 03:13 #787803
Quoting Jamal
But at the same time I was referring back to the earlier meatballs, which were entirely my own. What you might say is that like some kind of insidious shapeshifting parasite, I mimic the styles of others while introducing my own content.


Well... ok then.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 03:15 #787804
Please carry on about how Hanover might talk. I do prefer the conversation be about me, particularly as if I'm not in the room hearing it.

This style I'm in for the moment, you must admit it's quite British, not at all heretofore like one would expect of Hanover, I must say.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 03:30 #787805
My Uncle Pete, before the law caught up with him, used to have the local ladies see how many meatballs they could stuff in their mouths.

A young lassie named Lassie had the most remarkable chipmunk cheeks and so she won and so she and Uncle Petey wed beneath a peat covered shed atop Ben Lougherighougher (pronounced "lick-spick-spit" for a reason lost to time).

They had three kids, all by different mothers and fathers, and all named Peat. Each would remind one another a meatball is just a meatball, after all.

Jamal March 10, 2023 at 04:35 #787811
Quoting T Clark
Yes...well...hmm...This explains a lot


Quoting T Clark
Well... ok then


I take these comments to be equivalent to "Jamal, you are a weirdo."

That's ok, I have faced that accusation since childhood. Back then it bothered me, but now I don't mind.
BC March 10, 2023 at 04:41 #787812
Reply to javi2541997 Did your English learning book tell you what 'bollocks' are? They are cojones. Habla cojones en Español?

Probably not. Habla chorradas en Español?

Bollocks means

1. the testicles.
2. used to express contempt, annoyance, or defiance.

Why such an important organ should be used for such negative purposes is a mystery. Given how people view things, "talking rectum" or "talking anus" would make more sense. As in "talking shit".

Bollocks!

User image
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 05:01 #787815
Quoting Jamal
I take these comments to be equivalent to "Jamal, you are a weirdo."


I love language, reading and writing. Of all the things I love about language, I love punctuation most. Of all punctuation, I love those that represent pauses the most - commas, semi-colons, dashes, periods, colons. Of all the pauses, I love elipses (...) the most. An elipsis means text left out. After a word or at the end of a phrase, I use it to mean that there is something to come. Something that doesn't seem to want to come easily. A pause to think of the right thing to say. Ironic. Subtle.

So, no, it doesn't mean anything nearly as ordinary as "Jamal, you are a weirdo."
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:04 #787818
Reply to T Clark Yes...well.

My favourite is the em dash—standard in typography but unfortunately not standard on computer keyboards.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 05:20 #787825
Quoting Jamal
My favourite is the em dash—standard in typography but unfortunately not standard on computer keyboards.


I never knew there were two dashes - "en" and "em," the em twice as long as the en. Boy, talk about subtle differences in usage. You've changed my life!
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:22 #787827
Reply to T Clark I'm happy for you. I only wish I could make the discovery again to repeat the feelings of joy and wonder. I'm hardly even exaggerating.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:23 #787828
Reply to T Clark By the way, I think you can get the em dash with a certain key combination on most computers. Doesn't work on mine though. (I know I could configure it, before anyone says)
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:31 #787831
Reply to T Clark According to the Wikipedia page on dashes there are four kinds, and that's before we even get to hyphens and minus-signs.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 05:39 #787833
Quoting BC
Did your English learning book tell you what 'bollocks' are?


Yes, he explained to us the meaning of "bollocks!" I remember quite well. The only issue was how to express them in different phrases. When you study English, there comes a moment where the increased level demands knowing and understanding these particular things. We have a big examen of both English grammar and vocabulary. One part is related to slang expressions or "phrasal verbs"

Quoting BC
Why such an important organ should be used for such negative purposes is a mystery.


We use the female organ with same sense! there is a phrase that says: ¡Vaya coñazo! and the "coño" is the female sexual organ... so we can be accused of being sexist, indeed.

javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 05:40 #787834
By the way, breakfast: spelt cookies with soy milk and coffee.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 05:41 #787835
Quoting Jamal
By the way, I think you can get the em dash with a certain key combination on most computers. Doesn't work on mine though. (I know I could configure it, before anyone says)


Quoting Jamal
According to the Wikipedia page on dashes there are four kinds, and that's before we even get to hyphens and minus-signs.


Perhaps I will start a discussion about the significance of punctuation in language - perhaps not. Note that I used an en dash instead of an elipsis in that sentence. I like elipsis better.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 05:43 #787836
Quoting javi2541997
By the way, breakfast: spelt cookies with soy milk and coffee.


Yes, we know how it's spelt. That's a pun. "Spelt" is an acceptable alternative to "spelled."
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:43 #787837
Reply to T Clark Sorry to break it to you, but that's not an en dash, it's a hyphen. This is an en dash – as you can see it's longer than a hyphen, but not—I repeat not—as long as an em dash.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 05:48 #787839
Quoting Jamal
Sorry to break it to you, but that's not an en dash, it's a hyphen. This is an en dash – as you can see it's longer than a hyphen, but not—I repeat not—as long as an em dash.


It's all I have on my computer. From now on I'm going to do this: "Perhaps I will start a discussion about the significance of punctuation in language (en dash) perhaps not." I hope that will make things simpler.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 05:52 #787841
Reply to T Clark Well...ok.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 05:56 #787842
Quoting T Clark
That's a pun.


Do you mean that the noun/verb "spelt" is ambiguous?
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 05:58 #787845
Spelt (noun): an old kind of wheat with bearded ears and spikelets that each contain two narrow grains, not widely grown but favored as a health food.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 06:01 #787846
Quoting T Clark
Perhaps I will start a discussion about the significance of punctuation in language - perhaps not.


Many writers have thought it was significant. In the last round of short stories here I used em dashes for speech:


—Garrison Titmouse.

—What?

—I’m Garrison Titmouse, here to see David Swift.


(I also very carefully and with stunning effectiveness used ellipsis in that story)

I got the speech dashes from James Joyce, who used them in Ulysses, but several other writers have used it, and not only avant garde writers either. They can be very particular about it. There are all kinds of opinions about why and how different kinds of punctuation are good and bad, at least in creative writing.

What I'm saying is it's fertile ground for discussion.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 06:11 #787849
I'm watching The Czech Republic vs. China in the World Baseball Classic. In a lot of ways, it's a sad attempt by MLB to be the World Cup. Not to sound overly American, but baseball is and always will be an American sport. A lot of these players are making high school level mistakes. That said, the game just heated up; China has been trailing the whole game and just tied it up in the bottom of the 7th.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 06:19 #787852
Quoting Noble Dust
baseball is and always will be an American sport. A lot of these players are making high school level mistakes


I see a tension here, even a flat contradiction. It's implicit in the idea of high school level mistakes that they can be overcome with more training, so when applied to non-American baseball this would suggest that more development of the sport would lead to less mistakes. And yet in the previous sentence you deny this is possible.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 06:23 #787854
Reply to Jamal

Godammit it's the shoutbox. But really, my beef is with MLB and this narrative they're pushing to try to make baseball this worldwide phenomenon. They're doing that because American baseball is on the decline; TV viewership and game attendance is down. So this attempt to extend the sport around the world is just really cringy. Some of these players are collegiate level players, and some are has-beens who have played for independent "pro" leagues in the US, in which you get paid practically nothing and definitely have to maintain a day job. Basically, MLB's attempt to be something like the World Cup is just embarrassing. Those are my true, secret feelings, now revealed for all the world to see.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 06:25 #787856
Reply to Jamal

Btw, Japan and I believe Puerto Rico are rated by some analysts as number 1, over the US. Puerto Rico in particular is a hotbed of baseball talent.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 06:27 #787857
Quoting Noble Dust
Godammit it's the shoutbox


Sorry, critique is becoming a habit.

Otherwise, I don't even know what the MLB is and should've known better than to get into a baseball debate.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 06:29 #787858
Quoting Jamal
Sorry, critique is becoming a habit.


@T Clark and I will start calling you Adorableno.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 06:30 #787859
Reply to Noble Dust I like that.
BC March 10, 2023 at 06:54 #787864
Reply to javi2541997 If I was teaching an English class in the USA, I would call "spelt" (past tense of to spell) a minor error, like "humour" instead of "humor". UK English speakers use a number of "t" endings that Americans generally do not, Like "spelt", "spilt" and "whilst".

Spelt (the grain) has a health-food following in the US. I've made bread with it. Its nutritional profile is not exactly the same as wheat, and if I remember, it has little gluten in it. I don't avoid gluten; I'm a glutton for gluten.

So Yes, TC was making a pun on spelling and grain. I would give the pun a B+, at least.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 06:57 #787865
In a thrilling turn of events, China took the lead 5 to 4, but in the top of the 9th, down to their last, with two outs, The Czech Republic has scored 4, setting China's sudden deficit to 8-5.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 07:00 #787868
Reply to Noble Dust I'm on the edge of my seat.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 07:06 #787869
Reply to Jamal

And Czechia wins. They were favored, but on the other hand, this is their fist appearance in the World Baseball Classic. But this is only the 5th World Baseball Classic. Again, cringe-worthy overall.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 07:22 #787873
Reply to Noble Dust A damning indictment of the very concept of non-American baseball. Well I don't mind. You can keep your baseball to yourself as far as I'm concerned, along with your antiquated measurement system and rude ordering habits.

But if I moved to America I would think about following baseball in preference to the other sports. It has a certain aura about it that I like, some kind of down-to-earth coolness.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 07:28 #787877
Reply to Jamal

*Sigh*

Quoting Jamal
It has a certain aura about it that I like, some kind of down-to-earth coolness.


I have no idea what you're talking about, but I'll pretend I didn't say that and pat you violently on the back while chugging a bud light. Welcome to 'Murica.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 07:29 #787878
Reply to Noble Dust It could be because when I see baseball in movies it's often from the 1920s or something.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 07:31 #787880
Quoting BC
So Yes, TC was making a pun on spelling and grain. I would give the pun a B+, at least.


Interesting. I learn something new everyday in this forum. When I wanted to type what I took for breakfast, I didn't know how does "espelta" in English, so I search the word. When I read "spelt" I felt that something was going wrong (Google can cheats on us sometimes...) and ended up being a wordplay. As I said, language is one of the most beautiful acts of humans and we should protect it.

Quoting BC
Spelt (the grain) has a health-food following in the US. I've made bread with it.


Here too! The bread is recommended by most of the vegan and healthy food shops. But I am feeling a dilemma now: spelt or rye bread? :chin:
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 07:32 #787881
Reply to Jamal

Ah, the age of enlightenment; your favorite.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 07:33 #787884
Quoting javi2541997
I learn something new everyday in this forum.


Hay un montón de mierda para saber en el shoutbox.

Quoting javi2541997
spelt or rye bread?


The answer is always rye.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 08:05 #787893
Quoting Noble Dust
The answer is always rye.


:up:

Quoting Noble Dust
Hay un montón de [s]mierda[/s] para saber en [s]el[/s] shoutbox.


Good try, but a few mistakes that aren't your fault but from Google which uses Spanish from Mexico...
"Mierda" (shit) is only used when we refer to stool/sediments (as the proper/literally meaning of the word of English). When it is said "we learn a lot of shit in the shoutbox" it is translated into Spanish as: Se aprende muchas cosas en shoutbox., Omitting the word mierda, because it has no sense in Spanish. We translate and interpret "some shit/a lot of shit" in terms of quantity. (I guess...)

On the other hand, and this one of the main mistakes from latinos... The abusive use of determinants. We don't use "él" or "la" to everything but they do. We just say shoutbox, no "el shoutbox" and it is grammatically ugly. I remember a Mexican folk in my university saying "la xbox", "el Perú", "la España" etc... Like dude, don't use possessive determinant ALWAYS.
But when we want to teach them, they call us "colonizers" :smile:
frank March 10, 2023 at 08:05 #787894
This is how bees communicate distance and direction:

Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 08:08 #787898
Reply to javi2541997

The juvenile part of my brain is trying to figure out what the proper Spanish word for "shit" is here.

Quoting javi2541997
But when we want to teach them, they call us "colonizers"


:zip:
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 08:20 #787902
Quoting javi2541997
On the other hand, and this one of the main mistakes from latinos


Quoting javi2541997
grammatically ugly


But this is just prejudice. It's similar to the middlebrow British habit of "correcting" American spelling and grammar. The fact is that you cannot stop language from changing in different places, and the geographic and cultural origin of a language has no special claim to be its most distinguished inheritor.

Too serious?
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 08:52 #787906
Quoting Noble Dust
The juvenile part of my brain is trying to figure out what the proper Spanish word for "shit" is here.


I think there isn't! :eyes: We just interpret in a way that we can understand what you want to mean.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 09:01 #787907
Reply to Jamal Trust me when I say that they use Spanish in a bad/ugly way just because they hate us. The RAE (Spanish Academy of Language) gradually accepted a lot of their "shit" but just to avoid the continuous attacks against our country (well, I already expressed this issue in the thread about sexist language).

Quoting Jamal
Too serious?


I consider language a serious matter. That is why I try to use proper English on this site and try to learn something new every day. I am aware that my English is not perfect, but I rather use the words and think as an Anglo-Saxon, than use your language as "I want to" because it would be easier for me... 

Many Spanish students decide to switch to Spanish Latino. They think it is easier to pass the exam because the grammar is softer. Jamal, I think this is dangerous for a language... Don't you think we should respect a basic sense towards grammar and lexicon?
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 09:11 #787909
Reply to javi2541997 I disagree with you on this, and I don’t think your response meets my challenge, but I don’t think I want to debate it. I’ve got enough on my plate already, and I haven’t even had breakfast. Maybe you could make a new discussion. Or maybe we can agree to disagree.

I’ll make one point. Spanish in Spain has changed since Cervantes, just as British English has changed since Shakespeare. This historical change within a country is not intrinsically superior to the changes that come about through geographical separation.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:01 #787913
Reply to Jamal I see.

I want to make another point and I promise I leave this topic. As much as language has changed (as you pointed out), there still be standards, even everywhere. Here, in this site, we have to respect standards to keep quality in the posts, or someone can get banned otherwise. The mods do not feel "superior", they just want to preserve the standards and it is admired the effort accomplished by them.
That's is what I wanted to refer to language. I don't feel superior to an Andaluz or Mexican, but hey the standards and all.

Fin de la cita, ahora toca comerse un bocatea de jamón :razz:
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:10 #787914
Reply to javi2541997 It looks like we’re debating it after all.

Yes, we have standards, and they should be upheld. But (1) different standards apply in different contexts (which include different places), and (2) standards change under the pressure of organic linguistic change. It’s similar to laws: we should uphold the law, but also accept that the law can change. This is what happens in reality, with the law and with language. It’s not set in stone.

Standards are good partly because they allow for change.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:11 #787915
Reply to javi2541997

At risk of offending you, it would be very easy to demonstrate where your English doesn't quite match a native speaker's English. Your English is very good, but there are issues. For instance,

Quoting javi2541997
I want to make another point and I promise I leave this topic.


You should say "I want to make another point, and then (or after that) I promise I will be done with this topic.

Or here,

Quoting javi2541997
As much as language has changed (as you pointed out), there still be standards,


You should say, "As much as language has changed (as you pointed out), there are still standards".

Or here:

Quoting javi2541997
Here, in this site, we have to respect standards to keep quality in the posts,


Which should be: "Here, on this site, we have to respect standards to keep quality."

Those are approximations of your phrases. I like you, and don't mean this as disparaging, but I agree with @Jamal that you're prejudiced here. I hope my demonstration of your good but slightly off English demonstrates your prejudice towards Latinos.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:13 #787916
Reply to Noble Dust At the risk of offending someone who is agreeing with me, I disagree with your corrections.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:14 #787917
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:17 #787918
Actually it was really just the first one.

Quoting Noble Dust
I promise I will be done with this topic


This is very American. I would more simply say “I promise to leave this topic,” or “I promise I’ll leave this topic”.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 10:19 #787919
Quoting javi2541997
Trust me when I say that they use Spanish in a bad/ugly way just because they hate us.


If they are using grammar specifically with the intent to express their hate (dubious, but you asked we trust this assertion by you), it's not that their language is syntactically wrong or ugly, it's that their sentiment is negative and you disagree with them semantically. That is, you are disagreeing with what they said, not how they said it.

If you just think they speak ugly, even when they mean you no harm, then that's a different matter, and it feels like what you really mean to say.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:19 #787920
Reply to Jamal

Works for me.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:25 #787922
Quoting Jamal
It’s similar to laws: we should uphold the law, but also accept that the law can change. This is what happens in reality, with the law and with language. It’s not set in stone.


Good argument and I am agree. But the changes should go forward to a better understanding, not back-peddling. Sometimes, a change can be negative or not having enough substance to do so.
What I want to mean: Constructive changes and respect the solid bases of standards.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 10:26 #787923
Quoting Jamal
This is very American. I would more simply say “I promise to leave this topic,” or “I promise I’ll leave this topic”.


It was the Celts who gave us all these "do" words, especially prevalent in Appalachia. Things like "I've done told you, " and even "I'm done done with it" and "I done did it."

You done did this to us, and now you want to "leave this topic"?

You can't get all up in our business and then just leave out? Why you wanna do us like that?
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:27 #787924
Reply to Hanover I admit you raised a chuckle there.

Quoting Noble Dust
Works for me


This should be “That works for me,” or “This works for me”.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:30 #787926
Quoting Jamal
This should be “That works for me,” or “This works for me”.


Nope. Completely acceptable in American English to forgo the "This".
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:31 #787927
Reply to Noble Dust No offence taken, and thank you for proofreading my English. Do you know what is the worse? That I use grammar check web pages to help me! But it seems that they are not supporting me...

Quoting Noble Dust
on this site,


Sorry, on and in are one of my main struggles in English grammar. It confuses me because we only have one word: "en..." So, it is difficult to me to properly distinguish the correct use in the phrases. I must to pick up a English grammar book again.

Quoting Noble Dust
I hope my demonstration of your good but slightly off English demonstrates your prejudice towards Latinos.


I don't understand what you mean with this.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:31 #787928
Reply to javi2541997 Maybe you’re right. The question is, how do we differentiate between good changes and bad?

By the way, if you’re open to corrections, I have one tip that will help you a lot in debate here. “I am agree” is very wrong. Just say “I agree,” or if you want to sound formal, “I am in agreement,” but I don’t recommend the latter. Otherwise :up:
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 10:33 #787929
Quoting Noble Dust
Nope. Completely acceptable in American English to forgo the "This".


You win this round.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:35 #787930
Quoting Jamal
if you’re open to corrections, I have one tip that will help you a lot in debate here. “I am agree” is very wrong. Just say “I agree,” or if you want to sound formal, “I am in agreement,” but I don’t recommend the latter.


:up: Another lesson learned today!
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:38 #787931
Reply to javi2541997

I think you've missed the whole point of my correction of your grammar. It was probably lost in translation.

I was correcting your English grammar to show that you're a great English speaker, but far from correct. I wanted to show this in relation to your criticisms of "Latino" Spanish. They, like you, are adopting a (somewhat) new language. So, their grammar is not precise or poetic, as you mentioned. At the risk of offending you, I would suggest that your English grammar is a bit bad, by comparison. So can't you see yourself now in my assessment of people that speak a language badly?
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:38 #787932
Quoting Hanover
it's not that their language is syntactically wrong or ugly,


But they use our language syntactically wrong... If you were interested in Spanish language, you would notice it.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:41 #787933
Quoting javi2541997
But they use our language syntactically wrong


And you use English syntactically wrong. :joke:
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:42 #787934
Reply to Noble Dust I understand you now. My grammar is bad, and I should shut up my mouth and not be arrogant in criticizing others, whereas I am not even able to defend my own arguments grammatically.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 10:43 #787935
Quoting Noble Dust
And you use English syntactically wrong.


But it is not my mother tongue...
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 10:48 #787936
Reply to javi2541997

I don't mean you should shut up in any way; that sounds rather harsh. And I was not trying to highlight a lack of grammatical ability in you, because I do think you have a strong grasp of English. I used your English mistakes to highlight how you don't understand English fully, which ironically mirrors your criticisms of Latino Spanish.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 10:54 #787938
Quoting javi2541997
But they use our language syntactically wrong... If you were interested in Spanish language, you would notice it.


I get it, but you're saying they do it intentionally, which makes it a semantical distinction. It would be like if I mocked someone by speaking like them. My incorrect form is not incorrect form at all. I'm making an intentional variation to express a specific thought.

I'm just questioning whether a subculture is actually doing as you say, modifying their speech to a grating form just for the benefit of pissing you off. It'd be like me suggesting that black English is as it is because blacks enjoy annoying those stuck on speaking other forms. My thought is it really isn't about my me. It's just about how people are comfortable speaking with another.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 10:58 #787939
Quoting javi2541997
But it is not my mother tongue.


Much change to language is owed to the fact that non-native adults start speaking it. Their corruptions due to their own language forms creeping in and their inability to learn the new language correctly(as children do) change the language permanently.

That is, you are changing English in your own small way right now. That you see the same happening to Spanish speaks to its success in being a more international language.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 11:13 #787941
Serious question now. Does anyone else find that any page with an embedded video in one of the posts takes a lot longer to load than other pages? I’m wondering if this is a global issue or if YouTube is just working particularly slowly these days in Russia.

I mean, embeds will probably slow down the page load anywhere, but I’m wondering if it’s noticeable. It really annoys me.

I did enjoy the bee stuff though.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 11:20 #787942
Reply to Jamal

No, fine here. Never been a problem.




Jamal March 10, 2023 at 11:27 #787943
Reply to Baden So either I just need to upgrade my connection, or it’s the Russkies disabling local YouTube speed servers (or whatever it is they do).

By the way, Russian for Russian is Russki, so I’m not being derogatory.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 11:30 #787945
Quoting javi2541997
But when we want to teach them, they call us "colonizers"


Quoting javi2541997
Trust me when I say that they use Spanish in a bad/ugly way just because they hate us


There's no correct use of any language minus context. "Standard" Spanish is just the dominant dialect of Spanish; posing it as a yardstick against which other dialects should be normatively or aesthetically judged is misguided and prejudicial. There is nothing more objectively beautiful about the way you speak compared to how someone with another dialect speaks. You can only apply these kind of standards within dialects not across them. So, the accusation of colonial thinking may be on the mark here.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 11:35 #787946
Quoting Jamal
So either I just need to upgrade my connection, or it’s the Russkies disabling local YouTube speed servers (or whatever it is they do).


They may be intercepting YouTube vids through some kind of censorship funnel. Just a guess, but makes sense to me.

Quoting Jamal
By the way, Russian for Russian is Russki, so I’m not being derogatory.


Never really thought it was. Makes me think though. The Irish for "the English" is "Sasanaigh" and despite just being a literal translation usually signals a derogatory if used in an English sentence.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 11:47 #787947
Quoting Baden
The Irish for "the English" is "Sasanaigh"


Yep, that's in use in Scotland too so I suppose it's Gaelic. As in Ireland it’s always derogatory in English, and often it’s used to refer to any lowlander, i.e., the Scots who are not part of the Gaelic culture of the Highlands and the West.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 11:53 #787949
Quoting Jamal
Yep, that's in use in Scotland too so I suppose it's Gaelic


:up: I wonder how close Scottish Gaelic and Irish are to each other. Never really looked into it.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 11:55 #787950
Quoting Baden
They may be intercepting YouTube vids through some kind of censorship funnel. Just a guess, but makes sense to me.


I read @Jamal's apology to Russians for saying Russki as a clarification to the Russians listening in to his posts, as he's already noticed happening by the upload lags.
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 12:33 #787956
Quoting Baden
There's no correct use of any language minus context.


Well, @Noble Dust scolded me for exactly that reason.

In any case, I regret what I said, and bla bla bla... But please leave me alone, I promise that I will not take part in the shoutbox again. But I think it is time to end this discussion and these attacks.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 13:44 #787970
Quoting javi2541997
I promise that I will not take part in the shoutbox again


You’re on the Shoutbox team so you’re not allowed to leave.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 13:50 #787971
Reply to javi2541997

Was it an attack? My background is in linguistics so that's why I chimed in. Your attitude is nothing unusual.
Baden March 10, 2023 at 14:00 #787972
Would it even things up if I attacked @Noble Dust for using the verb "keep" without an adverbial or preposition as a synonym for "maintain" in his corrections of your English or @Jamal for not noticing in his correction of those corrections or myself for correcting corrections of corrections?
frank March 10, 2023 at 14:46 #787983
Reply to Jamal
Those pages aren't slow for me. I can try to embed a video from somewhere else and see if it's just YouTube.
frank March 10, 2023 at 14:50 #787984
I flipped a coin
To decide what to do
But I fumbled the damn thing
And it bounced under the couch

I swung at it with a broom
but that knocked it out the window
and I ran after it
as it rolled down the street

When it fell into the sewer
I raged at the sky
I lost a quarter!
of a United States dollar!
there is no God.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 14:53 #787986
Reply to frank Thanks, I’m pretty sure now it’s where I am.
praxis March 10, 2023 at 15:20 #788000
Reply to Jamal

Having recently worked on speeding up some websites I know that embedded YouTube videos significantly increase load time because of all the added JavaScript. There are some handy workarounds though.
Hanover March 10, 2023 at 15:44 #788017
Maybe check someone else's phone or find some wifi at Starbucks or something and see if that changes anything.

You can check on my wifi. It'll come up as BigDogFred and the password is FredHead. If the reception is spotty, hold your phone out the window southwestward and that should make it pop up.

@Jamal
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:10 #788023
Quoting javi2541997
Do you mean that the noun/verb "spelt" is ambiguous?


"Spelt" has two meanings, the one you meant and also an alternative to "spelled." My comment was a joke, a pun, a play on words.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:29 #788031
Quoting Noble Dust
T Clark and I will start calling you Adorableno.


Perhaps I would if I knew what it meant.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:32 #788032
Quoting BC
I would give the pun a B+, at least.


That's much better than I would give, especially since it was aimed at an innocent non-English-speaking bystander.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:34 #788033
Quoting Jamal
But if I moved to America I would think about following baseball in preference to the other sports. It has a certain aura about it that I like, some kind of down-to-earth coolness.


As I've said before, it's the most philosophical of American sports. I love it as long as I don't have to watch it.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:41 #788035
Quoting javi2541997
I consider language a serious matter.


I agree. I think a lot of us here do.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:42 #788036
Quoting javi2541997
That is why I try to use proper English on this site and try to learn something new every day. I am aware that my English is not perfect, but I rather use the words and think as an Anglo-Saxon, than use your language as "I want to" because it would be easier for me...


Your English has improved a lot since you started here. You also seem to be more comfortable expressing yourself in it.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 16:51 #788039
Quoting Jamal
This should be “That works for me,” or “This works for me”.


Quoting Noble Dust
Nope. Completely acceptable in American English to forgo the "This".


All this is interesting (en dash) but clarity is what's most important. As long as that's accomplished, I like language that's as playful as possible. "Works for me" means something slightly, and slightly importantly, different from "That works for me."
javi2541997 March 10, 2023 at 18:33 #788059
Quoting T Clark
Your English has improved a lot since you started here. You also seem to be more comfortable expressing yourself in it.


Thanks friend.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 19:54 #788064
Reply to T Clark Because you took my comment out of the context of the conversation, I’d like to point out that it wasn’t a serious correction.
BC March 10, 2023 at 20:04 #788065
Quoting javi2541997
spelt or rye


Go with what you like.

Whole grains are more alike than they are different and are more nutritious than refined grains, whether it is wheat, spelt, rye, oat, barley, rice, or corn.

So, why do we use refined grains? We can make bread using only whole grain, water, salt, and yeast. What we then get is a very heavy, dense, loaf. Adding milled flour to bread which has a higher proportion of gluten than whole wheat produces a loaf that is lighter and holds together when sliced. Is that important? Culturally, it matters.

Whether you eat a cookie made out of spelt or oats would matter more IF your diet consisted mostly of whole grains. Humans generally eat a wide variety of foods, including fruits, vegetables, nuts, legumes (including soy milk), dairy, fish, and meat (if you are not a vegan). From that assortment of foods, the necessary nutrition is derived.

So, that's basic knowledge. You know that already. But there are people sitting around the dining table yammering on about eating only organic food, whole food, fresh food (nothing canned or frozen), vegan food, Paleolithic food, and so on. Spelt only seems superior to some because it's less common.

Quoting javi2541997
"Mierda" (shit) i


Personally, I feel like I should avoid using "shit" and "fuck" just because they are so heavily over-used. If we need to discuss digestive waste, "feces" is available.

Should one ever use "shit" and "fuck"? "Fuck!!!!" is appropriate if one has just flushed one's wallet down the the toilet. It's not appropriate if one can't find his favorite pencil. "Shit" is appropriate when describing Donald Trump , or alternately "diarrhea", "sewage", "effluent", or the more literary "yellow matter custard dripping from a dead dog's eye"***. Some people think they are so great that the expression "hot shit" is appropriate.

****John Lennon, "I Am The Walrus, Goo goo g'joob
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 20:09 #788067
Quoting T Clark
Perhaps I would if I knew what it meant


Jamal + Adorno = Adorableno

Dinner: Lebanese restaurant. Many small dishes, everything excellent. Belly full of hummus.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 20:22 #788071
Quoting Jamal
Because you took my comment out of the context of the conversation, I’d like to point out that it wasn’t a serious correction.


I wasn't disagreeing with you, I was just putting in a good word for nuance and playfulness.
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 20:36 #788074
Reply to T Clark I know you weren’t disagreeing with me. As I said, I wanted to point out that when I corrected ND, I was not being serious.
T Clark March 10, 2023 at 20:39 #788077
Reply to Jamal

Gotcha. By which I mean "I understand what you're saying."
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 20:40 #788078
Baden March 10, 2023 at 21:04 #788084
Quoting Hanover
I read Jamal's apology to Russians for saying Russki as a clarification to the Russians listening in to his posts, as he's already noticed happening by the upload lags.


They probably built a balloon just for him. I suggest your next little story be about Jamal and his balloon. I'm sure you can work some disgusting sexual angle in there :up:
Jamal March 10, 2023 at 21:11 #788089
The other day I saw a liberated helium party balloon floating over Leninsky Prospekt. I joked that it was a spy ballon, but the joke fell flat, as the balloon itself probably did a few hours later somewhere in the environs of the Bitsevsky forest.
BC March 10, 2023 at 21:21 #788092
FOOTNOTES ARE GOOD

I've been reading Tara Zahra's Against the World: Anti-Globalism and Mass Politics Between the World Wars 2023. It shows that history doesn't repeat itself; more like history just takes a long time to unfold.

When I was younger (college student into my 60s) I didn't pay too much attention to footnotes. Now I am finding then very helpful. Particularly because Amazon and Google enable one to obtain the referenced books if one wants them, and to find out more about books and authors long out of print. The footnotes also show that there is a lot of publishing going on about globalization and de-globalization in the interwar period in central and Eastern Europe.

After both WWI and WWII there was a lot of population movement.

One of the books about Eastern Europe I found through footnotes that is particularly interesting is In the Midst of Civilized Europe: The Pogroms of 1918–1921 and the Onset of the Holocaust by Paul Veidlinger (published 2021).

Paul Veidlinger:130,000 Jews were killed--shot, burned alive, beaten to death, in several attacks on the Jewish population. Ukrainian peasant, Polish townsfolk, and Russian soldiers robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity..... Armed militants..... tore out the Jewish men's beards, ripped apart Torah scrolls, raped Jewish girls and women, and in many cases tortured Jewish townsfolk before gathering them in market squares, marching them to the outskirts of town, and shooting them. The largest of the anti-Jewish massacres left over a thousand people dead


This was between 1919 and 1921!

"UKRAINIAN JEWS AIM TO STOP POGTOMS
Mass Meeting Hears That 6,000,000 Are In Peril" - New York Times headline, September 8, 1919

User image
Baden March 10, 2023 at 21:54 #788099
Quoting Jamal
The other day I saw a liberated helium party balloon floating over Leninsky Prospekt. I joked that it was a spy ballon.


Ya znayu. :eyes:
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 23:16 #788119
Quoting javi2541997
But please leave me alone, I promise that I will not take part in the shoutbox again.


As @Jamal mentioned, you work here now; you're certainly not fired, and we can't have you quit. The workload for the rest of us would be too great; I can't eat tomato toast every morning, as much as I love it.
Noble Dust March 10, 2023 at 23:17 #788121
Reply to Baden

:groan:
BC March 10, 2023 at 23:49 #788128
Quoting javi2541997
But please leave me alone, I promise that I will not take part in the shoutbox again. But I think it is time to end this discussion and these attacks.


The shoutbox will be impoverished without your regular participation. If people are attacking you, tell them to go fuck themselves. (figuring out how to do that will keep them busy for a while.)

BC March 10, 2023 at 23:52 #788129
In honor of the Oscars

REACH OUT AND SLAP SOMEONE

User image
frank March 10, 2023 at 23:55 #788130
My friend says the economy is run by monkeys and donkeys so we're all doomed.
Banno March 11, 2023 at 01:00 #788139
Ruminant March 11, 2023 at 01:25 #788141
Reply to Banno

A lot of folks here had good impact on my life and I sometimes recall posts from long ago and still ruminate on them.

Here’s a few from my layman recollection

Banno- Words don’t have meaning. People do. Similar to the way a hammer is a tool to do the hammering. A person does the hammering.

180 Proof- Life involves a kind of giving and taking; a kind of taking on debt and paying it off. To pay it off (give) is to pay homage to those that came before.

Wayfarer- A poem called “Whatever it is” I believe you attributed it to Fernando Pessoa but I have never have been able to find it online (I did save the piece when you posted it).

I’ll be lurking around!

Edit: I should state these are what I pulled from the conversations and not necessarily reflective of what the referenced individuals wrote.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 07:15 #788179
Quoting praxis
Having recently worked on speeding up some websites I know that embedded YouTube videos significantly increase load time because of all the added JavaScript. There are some handy workarounds though.


Thanks. Yes, I used to fiddle obsessively with that stuff myself, but here on TPF it seems it’s only me who has the problem, likely because I’m in a place where the authorities have reportedly been deliberately making YouTube run slower so that people switch to Rutube—they’d like to block YouTube completely but fear the public backlash.

On top of that, I can’t change the code anyway because it’s a hosted service.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 07:31 #788180
Breakfast: Lebanese leftovers warmed in the oven. Cheese-stuffed flatbread, halloumi with plum sauce, deep-fried balls of spicy minced lamb, hummus, mini lamb pies, yoghurt, and more.
T Clark March 11, 2023 at 15:11 #788231
People complain about too much religion here on the forum, but there are four religion-related threads on the first page, all started by atheists or religion skeptics. [unnecessarily provocative statement] I don't really mind, it gives me lots of bad arguments to respond to.[/unnecessarily provocative statement] Maybe the moderators should do to atheism what they did to antinatalism (en dash) make a general atheism thread to dump all of them in.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 15:36 #788232
Quoting T Clark
(en dash)


I would have inserted a colon or em dash there.

Personal view: harping on about atheism is as bad as harping on about antinatalism, so I’m inclined to agree.

Admin view: thank you for your comments—is there anything else I can help you with today?
T Clark March 11, 2023 at 15:41 #788234
Quoting Jamal
Admin view: thank you for your comments—is there anything else I can help you with today?


How do you get the em dash on your computer. I only have one key for hyphen/dash. On the other hand, if you tell me, I might actually have to figure out how to use them. Also, I wouldn't be able to use "(en dash)" anymore.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 15:46 #788235
Reply to T Clark

I’m currently using an iPad, on which a double hyphen will be turned into an em dash automatically. Or I can press and hold the hyphen key to choose between en and em dashes.

I’ve been using mainly Linux computers and Android phones for years, but the respect for traditional typography on this iPad I like (“curly quotes” by default too).

You can get em and en dashes on a desktop computer using certain key combinations. You may Google to find out what might work for you. As I said before, it doesn’t work for me on Linux, where I just use the standard stand-in of a double hyphen.
T Clark March 11, 2023 at 15:54 #788240
Quoting Jamal
You can get em and en dashes on a desktop computer using certain key combinations. You may Google to find out what might work for you. As I said before, it doesn’t work for me on Linux, where I just use the standard stand-in of a double hyphen.


So, I can put in extra effort both to figure out how to use the different kinds of dashes and how to make them work on my computer, or I can say "screw it" and keep on doing it the way I do it now. Let me think about it...

Anyway, thanks.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 15:58 #788244
Reply to T Clark You’re welcome. Have a nice day.
Hanover March 11, 2023 at 17:57 #788259
Quoting Baden
They probably built a balloon just for him. I suggest your next little story be about Jamal and his balloon. I'm sure you can work some disgusting sexual angle in there :up:


I will tell you the story you ask for. Gather around...

It was a most lovely day for going up in our balloon. We arrived in the park to see the sky dotted with colorful balloons and families eating their picnics. Our balloon was being set up, the flame being tested.

A lady, like manna, fell from the sky. "Mother, is the bus here?" she cried out as her head bounced along the ground, her ponytail bobbing about like a well trained prostitute. I stamped at her mouth gibberish with my shoe.

We packed almonds, grapes, and cotton candy and boarded our balloon, hoisting the lady aboard. "Do you have my bookbag?" she inquired.

We ascended, unloading her onto the antlike figures below. . They scattered about as her shadow approached, with a cloud of dust arising as she nailed our target.

I chomped an almond while another couple gathered her up for another drop.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 18:03 #788263
Reply to Hanover Since I associate balloons with innocent joy, I was not prepared for the darkness of that story.
Baden March 11, 2023 at 18:06 #788264
Reply to Hanover

A beautiful metaphor. But...

Quoting Hanover
[s]A lady[/s] Jamal, like manna, fell from the sky.


Now we're good. :up:

Jamal March 11, 2023 at 18:09 #788265
Reply to Baden Are you telling me I cannot be a lady if I want?
Baden March 11, 2023 at 18:13 #788266
Reply to Jamal

Quoting Hanover
[s]A lady[/s] Lady Jamal, like manna, fell from the sky.


:up:
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 18:14 #788267
Reply to Baden :blush:
Noble Dust March 11, 2023 at 18:24 #788269
Quoting Jamal
deep-fried balls of spicy minced lamb,


Kibbeh yes? I haven’t had that in forever.

Packed lunch today is a classic dagwood: Asiago, cracked pepper turkey, lettuce, tomato, red onion, banana peppers, salt/pepper/oregano on whole wheat. No rye this week.

@javi2541997 I wanna apologize as I think I went overboard in pointing out what I viewed as prejudice. Hope to hear about the next iteration of your tomato toast soon.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 18:26 #788270
Quoting Noble Dust
Kibbeh yes? I haven’t had that in forever


That’s it. I couldn’t remember the name, and it was my first Lebanese restaurant so I hadn’t seen or eaten a lot of the food.
frank March 11, 2023 at 20:48 #788302
Reply to BC
Can you explain who that is Trump is slapping? And the statue of liberty? And can you explain why they never set a real fire in that thing she's holding? And is the statue of liberty trans? She looks like a guy. Thanks ahead of time.
BC March 11, 2023 at 21:29 #788325
Reply to frank Trump is slapping DeSantis, governor of Florida, and currently the main threat to Trump's return (like a dog returns to its vomit).

I don't know who StatOLib is slapping. Fire in the torch? StatOLib has been holding that thing up since 1886; can you imagine the gas bill for 137 years of eternal flame? New York can't afford to fix its subways, let alone paying for symbolic fires. StatOLib is not trans. (she, her) is a French peasant; they all look like that. Because they've been walking behind the horses plowing the fields, shoveling shit out of the barn, force feeding the geese, wallowing in vats of grapes in the Champaign district.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 21:35 #788327
Quoting BC
I don't know who StatOLib is slapping


Tucker Carlson?
BC March 11, 2023 at 21:36 #788328
Reply to Jamal A Lebanese deli in Minneapolis serves it raw or cooked. The raw version's consistency, mouth feel, and flavor just doesn't work for me. The baked version, on the other hand, is terrific. They also make superior tabouli.
Jamal March 11, 2023 at 21:40 #788330
Reply to BC Wow, didn’t know about that. I just looked it up. I like steak tartare and that looks kinda similar so I shall try it.
BC March 11, 2023 at 21:41 #788331
Reply to Jamal Could be. I've never watched Tucker Carlson.

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Jamal March 11, 2023 at 21:42 #788332
Reply to BC You’d love him!
T Clark March 11, 2023 at 22:43 #788341
Quoting Jamal
Tucker Carlson?


Yes.
Noble Dust March 11, 2023 at 23:18 #788351
Quoting Jamal
it was my first Lebanese restaurant


:gasp: They're all over the place in NY, and definitely exist in other areas of the US. @BC that must be a pretty authentic Lebanese spot. I haven't seen the raw version on menus here.
frank March 11, 2023 at 23:25 #788352
Quoting BC
StatOLib is not trans. (she, her) is a French peasant; they all look like that. Because they've been walking behind the horses plowing the fields, shoveling shit out of the barn, force feeding the geese, wallowing in vats of grapes in the Champaign district.


Wow. That's hardcore.
Noble Dust March 11, 2023 at 23:43 #788355
To be a newscaster, are you required to change your first name to a last name?
Hanover March 12, 2023 at 00:13 #788360
I cut my finger making a meat pie, so here I sit in the ER. I'm hungry and my finger hurts.
invicta March 12, 2023 at 00:37 #788369
Reply to Hanover

A great time to philosophise then
frank March 12, 2023 at 00:38 #788370
Reply to Hanover
IHOP has pancakes
BC March 12, 2023 at 01:33 #788381
Reply to Hanover The news of your damaged digit cut deep. Tragic!

You can buy frozen meat pies. I have heard you can get frozen pancakes, too, so no need to risk going to IHOP, per @Frank.

BTW, that adage about sharp knives being safer than dull knives does not apply to amateur cooks.
Hanover March 12, 2023 at 02:32 #788385
So I get to follow up with a hand specialist on Monday. My wife asked me how much the hand job would cost. A marriage made in heaven.

The story behind it is that I was chopping rosemary, but something went wrong. I'm not sure what...

Wait for it.

Wait for it.

I can't put my finger on it.

And the drumroll.

I haven't slowed a bit.

You can barely see where they bandaged it:

User image

The other hand was injured as well where I punched the wall, which did offer some temporary relief, so I'm glad I did it.

User image
L'éléphant March 12, 2023 at 03:52 #788393
Quoting Hanover
I'm hungry and my finger hurts.

The finger can still hurt even if it's gone.
L'éléphant March 12, 2023 at 04:05 #788395
Quoting javi2541997
But please leave me alone, I promise that I will not take part in the shoutbox again.

What's going on?
Jamal March 12, 2023 at 05:20 #788402
Reply to Hanover Big brown bandage. :up:

Goes nicely with the golden wheat walls.
Hanover March 12, 2023 at 12:20 #788420
Recent purchase:

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0 thru 9 March 12, 2023 at 12:43 #788422
Reply to Hanover Yes! The glove of protection! I thought of that when i saw your finger photo. I’ve used one for several years and here I am typing away with 8 healthy fingers!


...and two working thumbs too. :smile: :up: :up:
0 thru 9 March 12, 2023 at 12:49 #788423
About the glove... it’s great but mine absorbs everything it touches- tomato juice, avocados, etc. You could wash it after it gets stained then hope it’s dry for next use. Or (one thing I’ve been meaning to try) put a latex glove over the protector glove so food particles wash off quickly.
Jamal March 12, 2023 at 12:50 #788425
Quoting Noble Dust
They're all over the place in NY, and definitely exist in other areas of the US. BC that must be a pretty authentic Lebanese spot. I haven't seen the raw version on menus here.


Turns out the raw version was available and I missed it. Next time.
Hanover March 12, 2023 at 13:05 #788427
Reply to 0 thru 9 I've always noticed that oyster shuckers and fish cleaners wore gloves, but I never thought about why.

Now I get it!
jorndoe March 12, 2023 at 14:09 #788430
Reply to Hanover, but what about the wall...?

User image

0 thru 9 March 12, 2023 at 16:30 #788449
Reply to Hanover Haha! :lol: (even though you were being at least partially serious).
Hope your fingers feels better. Keep the big bandage to put on your middle finger, when driving to use in communication with other drivers. :snicker:
BC March 12, 2023 at 19:21 #788492
Reply to Hanover Could you give us more clinical information on your finger? Like, did you slice the fleshy end off, and maybe some of the nail? Make a long cut in the side of the finger? Sever the whole finger? How many stitches? On a scale of 1 to 10--with 10 being really really bad--how much did it hurt? How much did you bleed? ("If I slice my finger off, do I not bleed?" W.S.)

A couple of years ago I bought a very sharp potato peeler. On its first use, I was peeling a small potato and my thumb got in the way; it sliced off about 1/3 of my thumb nail - vertically. The doctor at urgent care had to cut the nail off.

I've since been more aware of the potato peeler's hostility to humans and their famously opposing thumbs.
frank March 12, 2023 at 19:36 #788494
Reply to BC
Plus, is there a hole in the wall?
Baden March 12, 2023 at 19:44 #788496
Reply to Hanover

You have tiny hands, man. :chin:
BC March 12, 2023 at 20:07 #788498
Reply to frank My wall or Hanover's wall?
Ruminant March 12, 2023 at 20:10 #788500
Reply to Baden

My guess is he’ll be sending those x-large cut resistant gloves back to Amazon for smaller ones.
Baden March 12, 2023 at 20:12 #788501
Reply to Ruminant

:snicker:
BC March 12, 2023 at 20:14 #788502
Reply to Hanover 7 hours since your last post. When did the home health care nurse handcuff your hand to the bed rail to prevent you from moving your severed digit?
BC March 12, 2023 at 20:22 #788503
But clearly, not in Georgia!

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Hanover March 12, 2023 at 20:29 #788504
Reply to BC

All very good questions, so let me fill you in.

I cut the tip, which included some nail and skin. I instinctively applied pressure with the same hand and beat the fuck out of the wall, being sure to hit the tile back splash to avoid needing to take a trip to Home Depot. Having to patch holes after a mishap is something I have grown tired of repeating.

It's like when I threw my weed wacker in the creek. I felt so helpless as it spun through the air.

But I digress.

The bleeding was limited because of the pressure I applied. When they removed the bandage at the ER to look at it, it hurt like a mother fucker. In fact, that's I how I reported the pain. Then it started bleeding. Then I told them to recline the chair because I was going to pass out. Then the heart monitor starting chirping. Then I got an IV. Then I was OK.

They told me to change the bandage 3 times a day, but I'm not touching it. That's for the doctor to do tomorrow. I don't do DIY medical care.

The meat pies are cooking as we speak.

Hanover March 12, 2023 at 20:35 #788505
Quoting Baden
You have tiny hands, man. :chin:


My wife doesn't complain.

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BC March 12, 2023 at 21:07 #788508
Reply to Hanover I cut the tip off my left middle finger while cutting up tickets on an extra large paper cutter. The campus doctor was in, so he wrapped it up. It bled and it hurt, of course. The biggest downside was that my efforts to learn guitar came to a screeching halt. By the time the string-pressing finger healed, I had moved on to the kazoo.
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 00:51 #788539
User image

Described on the website as “Adjustable Stainless Steel Finger Hand Guard Finger Protector Knife Slice Chop Safe Cooking Tools.”
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 01:04 #788541
I don’t want to brag, I’m not saying I’m better than @Hanover, (no matter how justified you might think that would be), I’m not unsympathetic, and I hope his finger regenerates successfully. But…

I’ve been chopping with big sharp knives for decades and I haven’t had any serious cuts. Was the knife, though sharp enough to slice fingers, not quite sharp enough to ensure an effortless action, and thereby dangerous? Did Hanover forget to curl his fingers to protect the tips? Was he distracted by a rowdy goat? What the hell happened?

I’m touching wood right now.

“Touching wood” is British for “knocking on wood,” the common apotropaic magic spell which ensures protection from harm.
Hanover March 13, 2023 at 01:22 #788544
Reply to Jamal I was chopping rosemary, which had hard stems, and I wanted it very fine. The knives were new and very sharp. I've been pushing it probably with my cooking routine and might need to reevaluate my skill level, or, option 2, dress myself in medieval armor and do as I will. Had I been properly outfitted, I could have avoided the injury and taken out the wall with a single lunge.

Next time I will not be bested. May God be my witness. I shall not again fail!

Best meat pie ever though. The crust was baked buttery goodness, the filling a thick stew. User image


Jamal March 13, 2023 at 01:28 #788545
Reply to Hanover Pie looks great. Another of my prejudices about America has been shattered, namely that a pie for an American is necessarily filled with fruity sweetness.

The filling looks like curry. Maybe the addition of tomato paste produced the orange colour.
Noble Dust March 13, 2023 at 01:28 #788546
Reply to Hanover

Any unusual cuts of meat this time around?
Hanover March 13, 2023 at 01:52 #788549
Quoting Jamal
Maybe the addition of tomato paste produced the orange colour.


Yes, it did call for tomato paste. No curry though, that British Indian staple.

Quoting Jamal
Another of my prejudices about America has been shattered, namely that a pie for an American is necessarily filled with fruity sweetness.


We call them pot pies. There are also pizza pies, but "pie" by itself would mean a dessert usually.

Quoting Noble Dust
Any unusual cuts of meat this time around?


Other than fingertips, just beef. It called for lamb, but the lamb selection around here is always limited.

Hanover March 13, 2023 at 01:56 #788550
I made the crust from scratch. It was flour and butter with just a small amount of salt and baking powder and only 2 tablespoons of water. It was much more like a pastry than bread. If I added sugar to it, I'd have had a meat stew filled cookie.
Banno March 13, 2023 at 01:58 #788551
Basic life skills...
...that allow you to keep your finger tips.
BC March 13, 2023 at 02:33 #788556
Reply to Jamal Reply to Hanover I like pasties (pron. with diphthongish "a" as in 'past' and not the long 'a' of 'waste' which is what strippers cover their nipples with).

In addition to a pie crust made of flour, lard or vegetable shortening, salt, and water, fill with cubed steak, rutabaga, carrot, potato, and onion, salt, pepper. Add a dusting of flour to the mix. fill 1/2 circle of dough with the filling, fold over and seal. Repeat. Bake. A pastie can serve 1 or 2.

Do avoid adding tomato paste, fresh tomatoes, parsley, sage, rosemary, thyme, curry, and anything else contra Cornish.

User image
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 03:05 #788557
Reply to BC I’ve enjoyed several Cornish pasties, but when I went to Cornwall I didn’t go near a pasty. Isn’t that ironic?

In Scotland we have our own pasty, called a bridie.

Whether a pasty is a pie is undecidable.
Noble Dust March 13, 2023 at 03:45 #788559
Quoting Hanover
Other than fingertips, just beef. It called for lamb, but the lamb selection around here is always limited.


I figured, or rather fingered, or digited. @Jamal I'm thinking this may explain the vaguely orange color.
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 04:01 #788561
Reply to Noble Dust Blood in food tends to give it a black or dark maroon colour, so I usually recommend tomato paste when someone asks, “how can I make my food more orangey?”
L'éléphant March 13, 2023 at 04:15 #788563
All these talks about severed finger and meat pies make me feel ill. :vomit:

Hanover shouldn't be cooking while bleeding or growing a finger.
Noble Dust March 13, 2023 at 04:34 #788564
Reply to L'éléphant

Learn from the tenured shoutbox folk; when you see a gross picture posted by @Hanover you immediately skim and learn how to jump from post to post, all the while avoiding the gross shit, while taking in just enough to add a knowingly dumb comment at just the right time. There's a lot of shit to know in the shoutbox.
L'éléphant March 13, 2023 at 04:38 #788566
Reply to Noble Dust Okay, thanks for the heads up. :up: I didn't know there's a shoutbox training.
Noble Dust March 13, 2023 at 04:42 #788567
Reply to L'éléphant

To be clear, that was all a joke. That's not to say I didn't skip all of the posts about @Hanover's finger because I had a finger injury myself a few months ago and I'm a baby.
L'éléphant March 13, 2023 at 04:43 #788568
Quoting Noble Dust
I had a finger injury myself a few months ago and I'm a baby.

:sweat: Sorry to hear that. I hope your finger is okay now.
Noble Dust March 13, 2023 at 04:52 #788571
Reply to L'éléphant

Thank you; the scar tissue is all but imperceptible.
L'éléphant March 13, 2023 at 05:11 #788574
Quoting Noble Dust
the scar tissue is all but imperceptible.

Fingers are the most durable and the most hardworking of all our body parts, I think. (Okay, the heart is the king) They can regenerate when cut up to a certain point. How impressive is that?
BC March 13, 2023 at 05:34 #788575
Quoting L'éléphant
They can regenerate when cut up to a certain point


Where is the point we can cut up to?
javi2541997 March 13, 2023 at 07:36 #788580
RIP Kenzaburo O?. Japanese writer and Nobel laureate in 1994. O? has always been one of the Japanese writers that has impacted and moved me the most.

Nobel-winning Japanese novelist Kenzaburo Oe dies at 88
frank March 13, 2023 at 08:08 #788583
Quoting BC
My wall or Hanover's wall?


Do you have holes in your walls? I've always been more prone to breaking things, like throwing a dish on the ground to express my explosive rage. Like Hanover, I eventually discovered that I'm just going to have to clean it up, so don't throw things that explode.
invicta March 13, 2023 at 10:59 #788657
universeness March 13, 2023 at 11:19 #788674
Quoting Jamal
In Scotland we have our own pasty, called a bridie.


So, Forfar bridie:
User image

Or Kilie Pie:
User image
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 11:25 #788675
Quoting universeness
Kilie Pie


That's really just a steak pie rather than a distinct species of pie.
universeness March 13, 2023 at 11:49 #788679
Reply to Jamal
I wont, repeat your last post to the Mad Killie Crew, just in case you ever want to visit Kilmarnock in the future:
User image
User image
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 11:56 #788682
Reply to universeness Ah it's good to see the old crew again.
universeness March 13, 2023 at 12:18 #788687
Reply to Jamal
:up: Yep, I miss the happy sing-alongs, in-between beers and Killie Pies, and debating the main philosophical issues of the day. I giggle, when I think about 'Boom Boom McCafferty,' bottom far right, just arguing constantly about how the Hanoverians destroy everything. I am not sure he was ever quite right in the head:
Hanover March 13, 2023 at 13:08 #788709
I'e deided o wie wihou usin my le poine ine eause i's bandae.

Translation: "I've decided to write without using my left pointer finger because it's bandaged." The missing letters were the missing digit's responsibility. Please excuse him, he's on disability.
0 thru 9 March 13, 2023 at 14:07 #788719
Reply to Hanover OMG... Typing without using that finger (without “hunting and pecking” lol) turns an English sentence into Gaelic. You’ve discovered something! :wink:
frank March 13, 2023 at 14:15 #788723
The US economy is starting to squeak from rate hikes, with more on the way.
invicta March 13, 2023 at 14:17 #788725
Reply to frank

I can actually hear it from England.
frank March 13, 2023 at 14:19 #788728
Quoting invicta
I can actually hear it from England.


That's probably a party in Iceland.
invicta March 13, 2023 at 14:32 #788731
Reply to frank

About time



The Icelandic financial crisis was a major economic and political event in Iceland that involved the default of all three of the country's major privately owned commercial banks in late 2008, following their difficulties in refinancing their short-term debt and a run on deposits in the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. Relative to the size of its economy, Iceland's systemic banking collapse was the largest experienced by any country in economic history. The crisis led to a severe economic slump in 2008–2010 and significant political unrest.

invicta March 13, 2023 at 14:37 #788732
Regulation or deregulation?

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-says-banking-system-is-safe-following-silicon-valley-bank-collapse-bbed317c?mod=mhp

Can you really regulate greed without causing economic stagnation…perhaps another recession is in order.
frank March 13, 2023 at 14:44 #788735
Quoting invicta
perhaps another recession is in order.


That's kind of what they're trying to do. On my end, there's a glaring labor shortage, so I don't know how they're supposed to increase unemployment.

We could replace people with robots, starting with the Governor of Florida.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 14:46 #788738
Quoting javi2541997
RIP Kenzaburo O?. Japanese writer and Nobel laureate in 1994. O? has always been one of the Japanese writers that has impacted and moved me the most.


I was just reading about him and I thought of you. I didn't know if he was one of your favored Japanese writers.
invicta March 13, 2023 at 14:46 #788739
Quoting frank
We could replace people with robots, starting with the Governor of Florida.


Don’t stop there, replace all civil servants with robots.

No gold plated pensions and let the civil servants actually be useful for once and start picking litter.

:rofl:

invicta March 13, 2023 at 14:58 #788746
Pre-emptive apology to any civil servant on this board. Some of them actually perform to an acceptable level.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 15:18 #788751
@Jamal—I'm trying to use an em dash in every post I write, whether or not it's appropriate. By the way, for anyone that's interested, by which I mean Jamal and me, you can generate and em dash on a PC by pushing the [Windows] button and period at the same time. When the drop down box shows up, push the symbols tab (?), and then highlight the em dash and push enter.
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 15:28 #788759
Quoting T Clark
When the drop down box shows up, push the symbols tab (?), and then highlight the em dash and push enter.


:up:

I just noticed that the system uses them for quotes. It puts one in before the user name, as you can see in this post. This is not useful or interesting information.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 15:36 #788762
Quoting universeness
Another non-existent who's followers you pander to!


I moved this over to the Shoutbox because I didn't want to clutter up the other thread. When I wrote "Mull" I meant the island, where my brother-in-law used to live. I don't know what or whom you were referring to.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 15:41 #788764
Quoting Jamal
I just noticed that the system uses them for quotes. It puts one in before the user name, as you can see in this post. This is not useful or interesting information.


—Agreed— There's a reasonably good chance I'll get tired of this punctuation mark soon and go back to my old habits. I certainly won't give up my ellipsis... or will I?
universeness March 13, 2023 at 15:45 #788766
Reply to T Clark
Yeah, I know you were talking about the Isle of Mull. An island NOT known for it's tasty pies!
I offer to share a Kille pie or a Forfar Bridie with you and your response was Mull?????

People who come to the Isle of Mull also don’t forget the delicious and lovely cuisine they offer. The place is famous for fresh local seafood, island malts, fine wines, and local cheese. What makes the food here so refreshing is because of its farming under very natural circumstances that don’t involve the use of chemicals and pesticides, so you’ll enjoy the real taste of nature in those meals. Isle Mull has many quality restaurants offering palatable dishes, including Bellachroy Inn, with its incredible menu and genuine hospitality. There is also Ninth Wave Restaurant serving fresh-caught seafood, Craignure Inn with their highland beef and Hebridean lamb, and Macgregor’s Roadhouse Cafe & Restaurant.
invicta March 13, 2023 at 15:50 #788768
But is the beef referred to above Angus beef? …the rest is substandard.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 15:54 #788770
Reply to universeness

Speaking of Scotland, did you ever see "Local Hero," a movie with Burt Lancaster taking place in a seaside village in west Scotland? Bill Forsyth makes movies I enjoy.
universeness March 13, 2023 at 16:01 #788771
Reply to invicta
The correct name is Aberdeen angus ya tumshie! :joke:
Nabdie ken's whare ra meat in a killie cumes fae! Brownings Bakery statement:
...a secret blend of gravy seasonings along with the finest cuts of meat
universeness March 13, 2023 at 16:06 #788774
Reply to T Clark
Yeah , 'local hero' is still liked by many in Scotland, but not me.
I do like some of his films, such as 'that sinking feeling,' and 'comfort and joy.'
But not 'local hero,' or 'Gregory's girl.'
invicta March 13, 2023 at 16:12 #788775
Reply to universeness

I shall have to export some Cows. Perhaps relocate them to Glasgow …rename it Refined Angus …Locally Sourced.

How pissed off would the Aberdonians be?

Riot pissed off ? :lol:
universeness March 13, 2023 at 16:19 #788776
Quoting invicta
…the rest is substandard.

Nonsense! The majority of highland beef is exceptional!

Quoting invicta
Perhaps relocate them to Glasgow …rename it Refined Angus …Locally Sourced.

The cows already in Glesga won't like that!

Quoting invicta
How pissed off would the aberdeenians be? Riot pissed off ? :lol:

I don't think that would be the case at all, I just think you might find your person being added to the more exotic tastes, available in some of the 'scotch pie' flavours(I think they are secretly called 'sweeny todds') produced in Glesga.
BTW it's Aberdonians!
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 16:46 #788785
Quoting universeness
Another non-existent who's followers you pander to!


Should be whose, not who's. It's the Shoutbox, where we are free to be annoying and to correct others, and to do both.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 17:08 #788788
Quoting Jamal
It's the Shoutbox, where we are free to be annoying


That's fine, as long as you don't try to prevent us from being annoying in other threads. That—as they say—is in my wheelhouse—or is it my portfolio? My area of expertise. My claim to fame. My specialty. My je ne sais quoi. My sine qua non. My nom de plume. My reason for living. My purpose in life. My Kilmarnock meat pie. My cul-de-sac. My deus ex machina. My Zeitgeist.
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 17:27 #788792
Quoting T Clark
That—as they say—is in my wheelhouse—or is it my portfolio? My area of expertise. My claim to fame. My specialty. My je ne sais quoi. My sine qua non. My nom de plume. My reason for living. My purpose in life. My Kilmarnock meat pie. My cul-de-sac. My deus ex machina. My Zeitgeist.


Yes…well.
BC March 13, 2023 at 17:29 #788793
Reply to frank There is a dent in the kitchen floor where I intended to smash a mug. The mug didn't break. I was going to throw it through the window but checked that impulse at the last moment. Fortunate. I don't remember what the rage was about.
universeness March 13, 2023 at 17:43 #788795
Quoting Jamal
Should be whose, not who's. It's the Shoutbox, where we are free to be annoying and to correct others, and to do both.


I am Scottish so I don't always spoke proper England, and I am glad about that.
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 17:44 #788796
BC March 13, 2023 at 17:45 #788797
Quoting T Clark
My reason for living


that would be raison d'etre.
javi2541997 March 13, 2023 at 18:01 #788799
Quoting T Clark
I was just reading about him and I thought of you. I didn't know if he was one of your favored Japanese writers.


You cannot imagine how happy I feel when you read something related to Japanese stuff and you associate it with me.
frank March 13, 2023 at 18:25 #788804
Quoting BC
There is a dent in the kitchen floor where I intended to smash a mug. The mug didn't break. I was going to throw it through the window but checked that impulse at the last moment. Fortunate. I don't remember what the rage was about.


Good impulse control! Broken windows are a pain to fix.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 19:34 #788815
Quoting Jamal
Yes…well.


Brings tears to my eyes.
T Clark March 13, 2023 at 19:35 #788816
Quoting BC
that would be raison d'etre.


Left that one out... dammit!
Jamal March 13, 2023 at 19:46 #788818
Quoting frank
throwing a dish on the ground to express my explosive rage


Quoting BC
There is a dent in the kitchen floor where I intended to smash a mug. The mug didn't break. I was going to throw it through the window but checked that impulse at the last moment. Fortunate. I don't remember what the rage was about.


Living up to your full name BC.

Full of passionate intensity, I have been tempted to smash windows, but I’ve never gone through with it. My brother once pushed me through a window, thereby breaking it, but that was just mischievousness. Luckily it was the ground floor (which I believe you call the first floor).

In my anger career I have damaged a few doors and broken a few priceless Ming vases (from IKEA) but usually I break my own cherished stuff, thus revealing the strength of my self-destructive death drive when Eros has been frustrated.
Hanover March 13, 2023 at 20:16 #788825
An update:

The hand doctor yanked the dried up bandage off my finger and explained it would have hurt just as much if we spent an hour doing it.

Anyway, you'll be relieved to know I'm going to be fine. It should fully heal, and I'll be back on the mound with my sinking curving dancing spitball in no time.
Hanover March 13, 2023 at 20:24 #788827
Quoting Banno
...that allow you to keep your finger tips.


The hand doctor explained that method of chopping as well. The "here's what I would have done" falls into that same never well received advice catagory as "I told you so."
Baden March 13, 2023 at 20:42 #788831
0 thru 9 March 13, 2023 at 21:21 #788846
Every time i see Chump lately, I think “give this guy some big glasses, and he’s Brick Top from the movie Snatch”. Maybe Brick’s a little jollier. He’d probably take that as a compliment lol.
unenlightened March 13, 2023 at 21:33 #788849
For snotty Mac users —option—shift—dash, for the em—
Or –option –dash for a more discrete en–

It's almost what you might have expected...
L'éléphant March 14, 2023 at 02:01 #788897
Quoting BC
Where is the point we can cut up to?



Abstract

The tip of the human finger can regenerate if the amputation is distal to the nail bed, usually in young children. Studies in regeneration of rodent digits have shown that regeneration occurs if the amputation is distal to the mid-third phalanx for certain ages. The digit contains many different components, such as muscle, tendon, bone, skin, nerves and blood vessels, which must all be regrown in the proper location in order to restore functionality. The mechanism behind the complex healing/regeneration processes is still under investigation; however, improvements in injured finger regeneration have been gradually developing in animal models over the past few years. This review discusses a few strategies and methods to possibly enhance digit regeneration beyond current natural limits, focusing on aspects including scarless wound healing, cell-based treatments, tissue engineering and electrical stimulation.

BC March 14, 2023 at 02:17 #788901
Reply to L'éléphant Quite interesting. I've seen some references to electrical stimulation in wound healing. The fleshy tip of my finger regenerated. This didn't involve bone, just soft tissue. It took a while.

Regeneration of body parts (like a finger or an organ) might be possible, IF we could find the biological signal machinery that could initiate regeneration. So, maybe one could regrow missing teeth, kidney, lung...
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 03:40 #788913
Quoting unenlightened
For snotty Mac users —option—shift—dash, for the em—
Or –option –dash for a more discrete en–

It's almost what you might have expected...


I'm shocked to find that someone other than @Jamal and I have the slightest interest in this. It's nice to know we're not just isolated pitiful pedants making distinctions where none is needed. Or at least we're not the only ones.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 04:30 #788916
@T Clark

A punctuation ramble ?

Sometimes I use «guillemets», otherwise known as chevrons. When there’s a quote within a quote, they make it easier to read. They’re standardly used as quotation marks in many languages, but hardly every used in English.

I like the section symbol, so I can refer to, e.g., §43 of Wittgenstein’s PI.

It’s not unusual but I still love the ampersand & in serif fonts it can be particularly beautiful.

What the hell?

That there is called an interrobang, combining the question mark and exclamation mark. I can see the need for it but it’ll take some getting used to.

This one I’m not sure about?

That’s a percontation point, for irony or rhetorical questions, so I misused it.

This should appeal to you. I just noticed that the iPad has an individual key for … the ellipsis character. Typing three periods can be considered bad typography.

Do you REALLY know how to use the ellipsis?
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 05:06 #788918
It’s not all that unusual to be into punctuation. I venture that typography is a more popular enthusiasm now than model railways or collecting stamps.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 05:45 #788922
Quoting Jamal
This should appeal to you. I just noticed that the iPad has an individual key for … the ellipsis character. Typing three periods can be considered bad typography.

Do you REALLY know how to use the ellipsis?


I'll stick with three periods. My interest in punctuation is embarrassing enough without sinking into the morass of typography. I know what san serif means. That's enough.

I liked the webpage you linked. I was gratified to find I've been using the ellipsis correctly.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 05:51 #788923
Quoting T Clark
My interest in punctuation is embarrassing enough without sinking into the morass of typography. I know what san serif means. That's enough.


I’m crestfallen. I thought we’d made a connection. Turns out you’re like all the others, reeling me in and then tossing me aside.
Banno March 14, 2023 at 07:22 #788932
Quoting Hanover
The "here's what I would have done"...


It's more what I intend to do than what I actually do. My thumb tends to get left behind as my fingers retreat, with results not unlike your recent adventure.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 10:09 #788960
Quoting Jamal
What the hell?

That there is called an interrobang, combining the question mark and exclamation mark. I can see the need for it but it’ll take some getting used to.


Not at all surprising, given its irrelevance, but my brother and I had a similar discussion about obscure punctuation recently, which has resulted in interrobangs following every text, quickly replacing the period as the most common punctuation mark.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 10:11 #788962
Reply to Hanover How did you get an interrobang on your phone? You got some shortcut that converts ?! into ??
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 10:12 #788963
Quoting BC
Quite interesting. I've seen some references to electrical stimulation in wound healing. The fleshy tip of my finger regenerated. This didn't involve bone, just soft tissue. It took a while.


I've been sticking my finger into the lamp socket daily to repair my finger. The results have been mixed.
User image

Hanover March 14, 2023 at 10:15 #788964
Quoting Jamal
How did you get an interrobang on your phone? You got some shortcut that converts ?! into ??


My brother figured that out, and it's in his every text, but I haven't asked how he figured that out. That sort of question would be too substantive for our conversations.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 10:20 #788966
Reply to Hanover I know what you mean. I have a brother who I often chat with on Whatsapp. After the conversation is over and my wife asks "how are the kids?" or "how is his work going?" I have to tell her I have no idea, because we just talked about cartoons from the 1980s and whether we'd rather fight a bear or a mountain lion.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 10:22 #788967
A bit like the Shoutbox really, but unfiltered.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 12:31 #788981
My paralegal was on the floor, putting some things in boxes, and I asked her why a grown ass woman was crawling around on the floor. She said, "Your wife is one lucky woman." That was a good come back.

Thought I'd share that little slice of the Hanover day.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 12:48 #788986
Reply to Hanover I don't get it. And I'm not just saying that because I want the entertainment of seeing you explain it.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 12:59 #788987
Quoting Jamal
I don't get it. And I'm not just saying that because I want the entertainment of seeing you explain it.


Alright, I'll take your word you're in good faith here, so here goes, me making a joke funnier by explaining it.

She's doing her job, likely something she'd prefer not to do, having to get on the floor to put things away. Instead of thanking her or helping her, I chastise her like she's a child choosing to play on the floor. She then makes a sarcastic remark that I'm a wonderful person, and how lucky my wife is in being married to me and getting to receive such treatment daily.

It was sort of a disrepectful, yet playful sarcasm.

Now that you understand it, I will pause for you to regain your composure.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 13:02 #788988
Reply to Hanover Ah, I think I get it now. Maybe you could try again to make sure?

To be honest I thought it must have been a blow job joke.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 13:02 #788989
And, it's not even close, you'd never overcome the weight disparity of a bear. If you could get on top of a mountain lion and bear down all your weight on it with a headlock, you might choke it out, but I'd say you'd only be able to win that wrestling match 1 out of 7 or 8 times at best.

With my bum finger, 1 out of 10 or 11.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 13:03 #788990
Reply to Hanover Exactly what my brother said.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 13:10 #788992
Quoting Jamal
To be honest I thought it must have been a blow job joke.


Yeah, right, that's exactly what I do. I joke with my employees about orally pleasuring me. And then they just laugh it off and think, that Hanover is a great guy, just has a weakness for the BJ and can't stop talking about it when he sees my sweet little self down on my knees.

You definitely need to re-read the HR manual. It has a whole section on such things. I named it the sextion section. Just now. That's when I named it that. I think an HR manual with sexually related puns is the way to go.

Jamal March 14, 2023 at 13:16 #788994
Reply to Hanover In my defence, I've been working from home for many years now. When I last worked in an office, bawdy chat was rampant.
universeness March 14, 2023 at 13:25 #788998
Stories and photo's about the achievements of disabled folks, such as the person with cerebral palsy below, convince me that antinatalists are to be polite, utterly wrong:
User image

I watched a documentary last night about a man whose neck cannot support his head, and his head lies fully on his upper back. I tried to find a picture online, but I couldn't. He has other problems as well but imagine, your head flopped completely over on to your back and you saw everything upside down and you could hardly walk either, due to limb deformities as well. I was so humbled by this man's 'zest' for life and how he went about living it, despite such incredible difficulty.
He was offered a medical process/attempt to try to correct his head position, but it was very risky and the chance of success and him surviving the procedure was not high enough for him to want to risk it.
He was soooooooo positive about his existence that he just, in my opinion, exemplified how to live.
What a legacy this man will leave. Antinatalism is .................... I can remain polite, and leave it to your imagination as to what I would put in the bank space, If I were to type the words I truly think about antinatalism and antinatalists.
@DA671
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 13:58 #789004
Quoting Jamal
In my defence, I've been working from home for many years now. When I last worked in an office, bawdy chat was rampant.


This gives me a chance to over-analyze by metaphor, so thank you for that.

If a bear attacks another bear, it's a fair fight as there is no weight disparity, much like if an employee jokes with another employee, but not when an employer jokes with an employee. That would be an unfair fight. When I was a rank and file employee, it was easier to joke around because they could tell me to fuck off, but now they have to laugh, so I have to be aware of that.

That's why I thought it was funny that my paralegal had no reservations joking with me because she could have just laughed and then rolled her eyes when I looked away.

Anyway, I've overthought this enough maybe. Just maybe.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 14:15 #789008
Quoting Hanover
Anyway, I've overthought this enough maybe. Just maybe.


At TPF, there is no such thing as overthinking.

Sounds like you run your shop like a little Stalin, forcing your underlings to laugh at your jokes.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 14:40 #789012
Quoting Jamal
Sounds like you run your shop like a little Stalin, forcing your underlings to laugh at your jokes.


Sort of. I mean they are required to laugh, but they laugh anyway because I happen to be crazy funny. But you are right, if I weren't funny, they'd have to laugh anyway or they get sent to a gulag. Literally. They are airdropped in Siberia. I have no idea what happens to them after that. It makes their families sad, but I don't give a shit.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 14:49 #789016
Reply to Hanover Firm but fair.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 15:06 #789022
Quoting Jamal
I’m crestfallen. I thought we’d made a connection. Turns out you’re like all the others, reeling me in and then tossing me aside.


I was rethinking my response. Typeface does matter to me, but only to the extent that it is easy to read and interpret. I tend to pick pretty standard types—Ariel, Calibri, Times Roman. I hate curly-ques and gothic touches. What is the forum typeface? Anyway, I'd be interested to hear why it makes any difference beyond the one I identify.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 15:09 #789023
Quoting Jamal
whether we'd rather fight a bear or a mountain lion.


So...don't keep us in suspense.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 15:18 #789027
Quoting T Clark
I was rethinking my response. Typeface does matter to me, but only to the extent that it is easy to read and interpret. I tend to pick pretty standard types—Ariel, Calibri, Times Roman. I hate curly-ques and gothic touches. What is the forum typeface? Anyway, I'd be interested to hear why it makes any difference beyond the one I identify.


I think I was just saying that typography is interesting, not that you should care about which typeface to use.

The choice of typeface is significant. It's mainly about context. Serif fonts are usually better for reading blocks of text, for example, and that's why most books use them.

The font family for most of the text on this site is:
"Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, arial, sans-serif


Your browser will render the text in the first font available in that list. In your case that'll probably be Arial, because you're on Windows. Apple users will get Helvetica Neue.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 15:21 #789029
Quoting T Clark
So...don't keep us in suspense


I'd rather fight a bear, even though, as Hanover points out, I'd be less likely to prevail.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 15:21 #789030
Quoting Jamal
At TPF, there is no such thing as overthinking.


Nicely put. The Philosophy Forum, and philosophy in general—Overthinking everything since 1,500 BCE®.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 15:31 #789036
Quoting Jamal
I'd rather fight a bear, even though, as Hanover points out, I'd be less likely to prevail.


I don't know about that. There's a good chance the bear will go away if you just give him your pick-a-nick basket.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 16:28 #789052
I could beat @Jamal's brother, a mountain lion, a bear, Uncle Peter, while eating a meatball, with my jacked up finger.

I'll admit I'll probably have a sore back in the morning from where Jamal's brother body slammed me into the rocks like he does, but I'd ultimately prevail.

Could be wrong, but that's how I see it going down. Not bad for a 56 year old, even with the sore back.
invicta March 14, 2023 at 16:38 #789054
Quoting Hanover
I could beat Jamal's brother, a mountain lion, a bear, Uncle Peter, while eating a meatball, with my jacked up finger.


But can you play the piano afterwards?
0 thru 9 March 14, 2023 at 16:40 #789055
San Francisco has plan for reparations: 5 million dollars per Black person.

If you don’t hear from me in the near future, it’s because I’m heading to the west coast, trying to get the best tan on the way. Driving with the top down will be cold, but it’s for a good cause.
invicta March 14, 2023 at 17:26 #789064

A Russian fighter jet has collided with a US drone over the Black Sea, forcing the US to bring down its unmanned aircraft, the American military says.
It says the drone was on a routine mission in international airspace when two Russian jets tried to intercept it.
The "unsafe and unprofessional act by the Russians" nearly caused one of the fighter jets and the drone to crash, the US European command added.
US and allied forces will continue to operate in the area, it said.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-64957792

Tough luck Russia …although them Russian jets are cheaper than the American drone. Don’t say if pilot ejected…

Collided ? Crashed ?

Usual standard of BBC journalism there
Noble Dust March 14, 2023 at 17:37 #789068
Quoting Jamal
I know what you mean. I have a brother who I often chat with on Whatsapp. After the conversation is over and my wife asks "how are the kids?" or "how is his work going?" I have to tell her I have no idea, because we just talked about cartoons from the 1980s and whether we'd rather fight a bear or a mountain lion.


I'm glad to hear these brotherly conversations don't fade with age.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 17:40 #789071
Reply to Noble Dust Very much to the contrary.
Noble Dust March 14, 2023 at 17:48 #789072
Reply to Jamal

I look forward to increasingly meaningless chats with my own brother. :up:
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 18:03 #789073
Reply to Noble Dust We’re all your brothers and sisters here in the Shoutbox ND.
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 18:07 #789074
Quoting Noble Dust
I look forward to increasingly meaningless chats with my own brother.


I'll share with you the last text I just got from my brother:

"Sometimes when I chew food, part of it gets ready to swallow so I do but the other part isn't ready but I have more room for more food so I put more in and finish chewing that already chewed food until I can swallow it and then the new food moves down for the next food. That sounds right? Thoughts?"

My response:

"I got nothing."

His response:

"I see where [my son] gets it."

What did people do before The Shoutbox and text? The days must've been really long.
Noble Dust March 14, 2023 at 18:18 #789075
Reply to Jamal

Has the shoutbox devolved from a job to a cult?

Reply to Hanover

But for the grammatical errors I would have said that text was from you and not your brother. Is your brother basically you but with weaker literary skills?
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 18:20 #789076
Quoting Noble Dust
But for the grammatical errors I would have said that text was from you and not your brother. Is your brother basically you but with weaker literary skills?


Yes, he's basically a stupider version of me.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 18:47 #789080
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm glad to hear these brotherly conversations don't fade with age.


Quoting Jamal
Very much to the contrary.


My older brother and I are much closer than we were when we were younger.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 19:30 #789098
Reply to T Clark Yes, I hardly talked to mine from adolescence to my thirties, and that was nothing to do with his pushing me out of a window.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 19:41 #789100
Quoting Jamal
pushing me out of a window.


Yes, defenestration is one of the best ways to try to harm someone. It's fun to say out loud. A technical sounding word for a simple process. The Russians seem to be using it a lot lately.
Noble Dust March 14, 2023 at 19:48 #789101
My brother and I were super close until he went to college. But then later in college we started a band together and got close again. As woo-woo as it sounds, there was definitely a unique synergy between us when playing together. A sort of positive tension.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 19:49 #789102
Reply to Noble Dust That doesn’t sound woo to me, is it woo to you?

Noble Dust March 14, 2023 at 19:51 #789106
Reply to Jamal

I don't think it's woo, but I'm probably overly sensitive to worrying that things I say sound woo.
Jamal March 14, 2023 at 19:55 #789107
Reply to Noble Dust Have no fear, you’re in a safe space.
BC March 14, 2023 at 21:17 #789139
Quoting T Clark
The Philosophy Forum, and philosophy in general—Overthinking everything since 1,500 BCE®.


— – - . … for instance.
T Clark March 14, 2023 at 23:00 #789170
Quoting BC
— – - . … for instance.


Were you under the impression I didn't include myself as an overthinker?
Hanover March 14, 2023 at 23:52 #789203
Quoting Jamal
Yes, I hardly talked to mine from adolescence to my thirties, and that was nothing to do with his pushing me out of a window.


Fratri-defenestration is a leading cause of brotherly conflict.
BC March 15, 2023 at 00:01 #789208
Reply to T Clark Heavens! Not at all.
BC March 15, 2023 at 00:03 #789214
@T Clark Overthinking is a better habit than my underthinking.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 08:43 #789283
Quoting Hanover
Fratri-defenestration is a leading cause of brotherly conflict


Is it a cause, or is it the result? You do the math.

My brother and I sometimes use that phrase, "you do the math," at times when it doesn't fit. Not only is its inaptness amusing, but its foreignness makes it even more so.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 08:51 #789284
[quote=The Minimalists;https://www.theminimalists.com/minimalism/]Minimalism is a tool that can assist you in finding freedom. Freedom from fear. Freedom from worry. Freedom from overwhelm. Freedom from guilt. Freedom from depression. Freedom from the trappings of the consumer culture we’ve built our lives around. Real freedom.[/quote]

I'd never seen "overwhelm" used as a noun before. I quite like it. Your thoughts please.
Tom Storm March 15, 2023 at 09:58 #789293
Quoting Jamal
Minimalism is a tool that can assist you in finding freedom. Freedom from fear. Freedom from worry. Freedom from overwhelm. Freedom from guilt. Freedom from depression. Freedom from the trappings of the consumer culture we’ve built our lives around. Real freedom.
— The Minimalists

I'd never seen "overwhelm" used as a noun before. I quite like it. Your thoughts please.


I said goodbye to overwhelm some years ago myself. Ever since I got rid of most of my shit and never replaced it.
Hanover March 15, 2023 at 10:12 #789297
Quoting Jamal
never seen "overwhelm" used as a noun before. I quite like it. Your thoughts please.


I refer you to the interweb, which has provided such an analysis already:

https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/522687/recent-usage-of-the-word-overwhelm-in-sentences#:~:text=overwhelm%20(noun)%3A%20the%20action,1863%2C%201961%2C%20and%201990.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 10:17 #789299
Reply to Hanover Thanks, I saw that. I went even further and followed the link to here:

https://www.dailywritingtips.com/overwhelm-is-a-verb-isnt-it/
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 10:19 #789300
Sometimes I suffer from underwhelm.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 10:24 #789302
Quoting Tom Storm
I said goodbye to overwhelm some years ago myself. Ever since I got rid of most of my shit and never replaced it.


And now you go around bragging about it, about how you're so much better than everyone else while measuring your worth just like others do by the number of things you have, imagining that we look at you with admiration when in fact we look at you with indifference and contempt.

Sorry about that, just venting. :grin:
universeness March 15, 2023 at 10:34 #789304
Reply to Jamal
I would like to complain about the recent 'sibling imbalance,' that has appeared in the shoutbox.
It's not nice for those of us who have never had a biological brother. Sisters are also very good folks to chat to. I have often wondered about why I sometimes refer to another man as 'brother?' I have always associated this with my political and humanist viewpoints, but I wonder if deep down, I am really pleading for someone to BE my substitute brother, as I have never experienced having one. :cry:
You 'brother posers,' are just 'flauntists' (is that a real word? If not, it should be!)
As 'the big cheese' on this website (as TC often reminds me) I think you should call for more balance, and insist that members promote the value of having sisters, as well as brothers. AND what about the lonely onlys?????? (is onlys a word? should it be onlies? You puncy champs (champions of punctuation) must know more than me about pure right england words.
I can't cut 'punctuation' to a cooler sounding colloquialism such as 'punky,' as that's already been used for a 70's pop music genre, but is 'puncy,' just [s]anti-english,[/s] [s]anti-english rules[/s], contrary to the rules of the English language. Sheesh! maybe the antilife mob have a point after all!
ANYWAY, do something about that whole imbalanced 'brother lovin' stuff or do we all have to sing/listen to:

before posting in the shoutbox???

Go SISTERS! I have two, one older and one younger! Both are wonderful people!!!!
Tom Storm March 15, 2023 at 10:40 #789305
Reply to Jamal Actually our 8 year-old at the time allowed a heater to burn some paper in her room and it caught fire and burned down our place. We just managed to get out alive. We never got around to replacing our stuff because we were crippled with depression. We call it minimalism and pretend it was a choice we made in order to cover the black hole inside us. But we’re still better than everyone else.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 11:08 #789311
Reply to universeness I can start referring to my brother as my sister from now on if that would help. I’m sure she wouldn’t mind.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 11:09 #789313
Quoting Tom Storm
But we’re still better than everyone else


Yep, you still have that.
universeness March 15, 2023 at 11:15 #789316
Reply to Jamal
No, I think your brother might not like that and start listening to:
Hanover March 15, 2023 at 11:36 #789326
Quoting Jamal
Sorry about that, just venting


I saw a show on the Amish a while back and they had a word (which I can't locate now) that describes pride in one's humility, which was also an unacceptable type of pride. It might be shown by someone wearing more simple clothing than required, limiting one's use of modern conveniences than required, and so on. Competing for the lowest spot is still competition and attempt to hold yourself in esteem.

My point is that you were fully justified in ripping him a new one for bragging about how little he had.

On the other hand, I'd be the most humble of the Amish by building a castle and filling it with women of the most beautiful bonnets. They'd hate me for my opulence, which would make me the lowest of the lows, humbled by the criticism, and therefore perfect. You do the math.

Thoughts?

That's the universal way to say whatever you want and then act like it's a question.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 11:41 #789327
Quoting Hanover
Thoughts?


I'm wondering what you call it when you're proud of not being proud of your humility. Is it just the same thing again only worse, or does this get its own name in Amishland too?

Hanover March 15, 2023 at 12:17 #789343
Quoting Jamal
wondering what you call it when you're proud of not being proud of your humility. Is it just the same thing again only worse, or does this get its own name in Amishland too?


What you're describing would result in your being shunned and banned and completely humiliated, which would result in your being annointed king.

That's what happened to me at least.
invicta March 15, 2023 at 12:33 #789350
Humble to be proud, and proud to be humble.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 12:40 #789353
Reply to Hanover I'm in no position to doubt what you say. All my knowledge of the Amish is from a work entitled "Kingpin".
T Clark March 15, 2023 at 14:38 #789378
Quoting Hanover
Thoughts?


I believe he Amish call it "virtue signaling." Google says that's "Tugendsignalisierung" in Pennsylvania Dutch.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 15:07 #789382
Brunch: Egg fried rice: in order of introduction to the pan ... sesame oil, vegetable oil, garlic, rice, egg, oyster sauce, yellow lantern chili sauce, spring onions

Lundinner: Roast chicken thigh and carrots with lentils

Thoughts?
Noble Dust March 15, 2023 at 15:38 #789388
Quoting Jamal
Thoughts?


Interesting that you added the sesame oil first, was this to bring out the aromatics? In my mind it’s a low smoke point oil, but I could be wrong.

Everything else sounds great. One recommendation for your chicken dinner is to finish it with some yogurt. I had that exact thing at a jazz bar awhile back, and it was delicious. Black lentils too, which are the king of lentils.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 15:49 #789389
Quoting Noble Dust
Interesting that you added the sesame oil first, was this to bring out the aromatics?


I wasn’t so methodical. Maybe that was at the back of my mind.

Quoting Noble Dust
Everything else sounds great. One recommendation for your chicken dinner is to finish it with some yogurt. I had that exact thing at a jazz bar awhile back, and it was delicious. Black lentils too, which are the king of lentils.


Mine were puy lentils. Sauce was adjika out of a bottle. I do like yoghurt though, with many things.
Hanover March 15, 2023 at 15:57 #789391
Quoting T Clark
I believe he Amish call it "virtue signaling." Google says that's "Tugendsignalisierung" in Pennsylvania Dutch.


I think we all know how it translates into Pennsylvania Dutch now that you've provided the English. That was sort of condescending for you put that in there btw.
T Clark March 15, 2023 at 16:06 #789393
Quoting Hanover
That was sort of condescending


I looked on the web for a definition of "condescending." Here it is:
  • Displaying a patronizingly superior attitude.
  • Exhibiting an attitude of superiority; patronizing
  • Assuming a tone of superiority


Given that definition, and the fact that I am clearly superior, I have to agree with your assessment.
invicta March 15, 2023 at 16:22 #789398
Quoting T Clark
Given that definition, and the fact that I am clearly superior, I have to agree with your assessment.


What’s the opposite of patronising ?
T Clark March 15, 2023 at 16:35 #789400
Quoting invicta
What’s the opposite of patronising ?


Boycotting. Ha, ha, ha. That was a play on the different meanings of "patronizing."

But seriously, why would I possibly need to know an antonym for, which is what literate people call "the opposite of," "patronizing." I'm sure you'll be gratified to note the spelling correction. No need to thank me.
Hanover March 15, 2023 at 17:44 #789407
I'd like to think it was my doing because I've seen this tack appear elsewhere, but it's where you say whatever you want to without any direction just because it's what you want to say, and you end it with the question: thoughts?

Thoughts?
Noble Dust March 15, 2023 at 18:09 #789409
Quoting Jamal
Sauce was adjika out of a bottle.


I've never heard of this but it sounds great. Have you had muhamara? I'm wondering there's some cross over.

Breakfast - boring old skyr yogurt and cofee

Lunch - Home made egg salad sandwich. One of the great lunches of the world.

Dinner - heading to a spot in Chinatown with a co worker. Never been, but it's supposed to be cheap, simple and delicious. Followed by lots of wine at the bar our friend works at.

Edit: thoughts?
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 18:30 #789413
Quoting Noble Dust
muhamara


I haven’t had that. I know I’d like it.

Quoting Noble Dust
Home made egg salad sandwich


Scrambled no doubt.

Quoting Noble Dust
wine


Cheers.

Thoughts!
Noble Dust March 15, 2023 at 18:42 #789414
Quoting Jamal
Scrambled no doubt.


Quoting Jamal
Thoughts!


:vomit:
Noble Dust March 15, 2023 at 18:44 #789416
The Amish do make great cheese, pies, and other heart-attack inducing foods.
Jamal March 15, 2023 at 19:02 #789418
Reply to Noble Dust Lucky for them that they have a rare genetic mutation that is thought to reduce the risk of heart disease by 35%, as I just discovered.
Hanover March 15, 2023 at 19:22 #789421
Reply to Jamal Yet they have a significant amount of genetic abnormalities due to the fact that they descend from approximately only 500 original founders.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_among_the_Amish#:~:text=Health%20among%20the%20Amish%20is,unusual%20distribution%20of%20blood%20types.

In an effort to diversify the gene pool, I will be visiting upon the Amish community with a vengence. The next generation of Amish will be overflowing with sarcastic doctors and lawyers.
Sir2u March 15, 2023 at 22:25 #789438
Quoting invicta
What’s the opposite of patronising ?


unpatronizing
uncondescending

That was easy.
invicta March 15, 2023 at 22:32 #789441
Reply to Sir2u

A very good answer and so un condescending

Sir2u March 15, 2023 at 22:34 #789444
Quoting invicta
A very good answer and so un condescending


I just used a dictionary, Wordweb. Great little program and free.
invicta March 15, 2023 at 22:40 #789447
Reply to Sir2u

I’m on a mobile phone
Sir2u March 15, 2023 at 22:42 #789449
Quoting invicta
I’m on a mobile phone


It is available in the play store.
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 00:15 #789474
Quoting Hanover
In an effort to diversify the gene pool, I will be visiting upon the Amish community with a vengence. The next generation of Amish will be overflowing with sarcastic doctors and lawyers.


Since Jewish ancestry is passed through the mother, I guess your children would not be the first Amish Jews. If a Jewish woman and an Amish man had children, would they be Hasidic?
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 00:21 #789478
Quoting T Clark
. If a Jewish woman and an Amish man had children, would they be Hasidic


Actually, they would be Irish. It's an unexpected result I know, but that's how genetics works if you knew anything.
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 00:26 #789480
Quoting Hanover
Actually, they would be Irish. It's an unexpected result I know, but that's how genetics works if you knew anything.


This is why you are indispensable here on the forum.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 00:27 #789481
My rare genetic mutation is competing penises, each vying for king of the trouser. It's a bitter rivalry, despite having common interests, they choose instead to fight. The right penis sees things his way and the left his, and never the twain shall they meet.

Efforts at reconciliation have failed, and so this battle rages on. It's all tribal genetics after all.

Hanover March 16, 2023 at 00:28 #789482
And no, I'm not 15 years old. That post was written by a 56 year old.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 00:34 #789484
invicta March 16, 2023 at 00:35 #789485
Vagina
invicta March 16, 2023 at 00:35 #789487
Seamen
frank March 16, 2023 at 00:38 #789488
Harry Houdini was Jewish.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 00:40 #789489
Reply to frank

I bet he couldn’t escape that fact

T Clark March 16, 2023 at 01:17 #789498
Quoting Hanover
[s]15[/s]12


Tom Storm March 16, 2023 at 01:35 #789501
Reply to Hanover Could part of this incommensurability between members be that only one of your John Thomases is circumcized?
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 01:57 #789504
Quoting Tom Storm
Could part of this incommensurability between members be that only one of your John Thomases is circumcized?


Would that mean @Hanover is only half Jewish? There are rumors he is half Amish.
frank March 16, 2023 at 01:58 #789505
Quoting invicta
I bet he couldn’t escape that fact


:grin:
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 02:37 #789512
Quoting Sir2u
unpatronizing
uncondescending


They’re just negations.

Opposites or antonyms: hot/cold, big/small.
Negations: hot/unhot, big/unbig.

All of them are perfectly fine.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 02:46 #789513
Quoting Jamal
They’re just negations.

Opposites or antonyms: hot/cold, big/small.
Negations: hot/unhot, big/unbig.

All of them are perfectly fine.


What is the opposite of not big?
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 02:50 #789515
Reply to Hanover

Two alternative answers:

1. There is no opposite
2. Big

I think un-not-big is wrong, but that’s just my opinion.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 02:52 #789516
Opposite of not big now that’s a the big question.

I’d say not not not small
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 02:53 #789518
Quoting Tom Storm
Could part of this incommensurability between members be that only one of your John Thomases is circumcized


I have some leather gloves and a motorcycle jacket made from my supple foreskin, with the rest still stacked in the closet for a project one day.

When I stroke the arm of my jacket, it reminds me of my many a cold lonely night, just me and my cell phone.

I do enjoy my clothing though. The only downside is its unforgiving smell of cock. While the aroma understandably drives the ladies wild, it distracts me from my Shoutbox studies.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 02:58 #789520
You should write a guide to the less unfortunate males.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 03:00 #789521
I think an opposite is just the word spelled backwards.

So "dog" would be "the word spelled backwards"

Maybe I misunderstood myself here because that isn't what I expected I'd do.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 03:02 #789522
Yes you probably misunderstood yourself.

Good habit
invicta March 16, 2023 at 03:05 #789523
What is the past tense of flow
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 03:06 #789524
I think my finger severing antibiotics served the fortuitous dual purpose of saving me from rosemary induced sepsis and resolving my coincidental eye stye.

There is the silver lining I was looking for!
invicta March 16, 2023 at 03:07 #789526
Never mind googled it myself I did

The past tense and past participle of flow.
The river flowed down from the mountains.
Tears flowed down Sally's cheeks as her boyfriend left her.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 03:08 #789527
Know what the opposite of derwear is?

I made you say "underwear"!!

Totally gotcha!!!
invicta March 16, 2023 at 03:11 #789528
What’s the opposite of this
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 03:12 #789529
Quoting invicta
The past tense and past participle of flow.
The river flowed down from the mountains.
Tears flowed down Sally's cheeks as her boyfriend left her.


Neither example spoke in the past perfect, so the past participle wasn't used.

Correct would prollily be "the river had flowdid down the mountains," assuming you were a 5 year old from those mountains, or hollers as they say
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 03:17 #789532
Quoting Hanover
I think my finger severing antibiotics served the fortuitous dual purpose of saving me from rosemary induced sepsis and resolving my coincidental eye stye.


I had to read this sentence twice. It was like reading Kant.
invicta March 16, 2023 at 03:18 #789533
The river flew in reverse up the mountain but never was seen again as Sally stopped crying and knew she would find a new man with a slightly bigger penis
Tom Storm March 16, 2023 at 03:26 #789536
Reply to Hanover I find the unforgiving cock smell goes away with a liberal application of baking soda and water. Just rub it up and down until it goes all frothy.

Quoting Jamal
I think my finger severing antibiotics served the fortuitous dual purpose of saving me from rosemary induced sepsis and resolving my coincidental eye stye.
— Hanover

I had to read this sentence twice. It was like reading Kant.


:rofl: Indeed. It does read like a selection from a preening masterwork and not merely owing to its turgid indecipherability. I had in mind Heidegger, between a hermeneutical pogrom and phenomenological reach-around.

Hanover March 16, 2023 at 03:29 #789538
Quoting Jamal
had to read this sentence twice. It was like reading Kant.


Stilted sentence structure offers hints of covert psychiatric disorder, perhaps, or, I'd hope to think, just forced absurdity, but to some, I fear, pseudo-intellectualism.

Thoughts?
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 03:34 #789540
Quoting Hanover
I have some leather gloves and a motorcycle jacket made from my supple foreskin, with the rest still stacked in the closet for a project one day.

When I stroke the arm of my jacket, it reminds me of my many a cold lonely night, just me and my cell phone.

I do enjoy my clothing though. The only downside is its unforgiving smell of cock. While the aroma understandably drives the ladies wild, it distracts me from my Shoutbox studies.


Just wanted you to know—I'm saving all your Shoutbox posts for reuse when you complain about my skepticism of your former employment in a Chinese Restaurant and similar wholesome stories from your youth and family life. I know for a fact you're a 71 year old retired man sitting alone all day in his pajamas on his lounge chair posting rambling bullshit to online forums and drinking a bottle of cheap wine every night. Oh...wait...no...that's me.
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 06:17 #789585
Have you ever walked up a mountain only to find the topography is much more complex than you expected? From a distance it looks like a simple cone or pyramid, but when you're there, it's like you enter inside it, and it's difficult to relate it to the shape as seen from a distance, which is also the shape in your mind. And as you climb, it continues to change in surprising ways, and things are not where they should be.

Well, everything is like that. I spent a while there looking into Scottish history, and the complexity gave me overwhelm.

There should be more of this in the Shoutbox. Thoughts for the day, pearls of wisdom, penetrating insights, that kind of thing.
0 thru 9 March 16, 2023 at 08:32 #789590
Quoting invicta
What’s the opposite of patronising ?


Matronizing?
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 08:39 #789594
Reply to 0 thru 9 Excellent, best answer. It hadn't occurred to me that it was related to father.
0 thru 9 March 16, 2023 at 09:09 #789596
Possible helpful hint... if there’s a video from internet you’d like to watch without commercials (like a long concert video that is more enjoyable without someone shouting “ask your doctor if Bealzalox is right for you! Side effects may include bleeding from the ears, vital organ leakage, uncontrollable and loud philosophizing... )

Anyway, this works on my iPhone and iPad, not sure about other devices. Send the video to yourself via text message, and play the video within the text message screen by pressing the play arrow, not the link at bottom. Also, imbedding the video in a thread online, like some in The Lounge, seems to cut the [s]crap[/s] commercials. One could also pay for premium? (lol... i know).

Please don’t tell this to anyone, because who-know-who is always listening, and is feverishly working on a way to directly implant nonstop commercials in our brain. :monkey:

0 thru 9 March 16, 2023 at 09:12 #789597
Reply to Jamal
:nerd: Thanks! Years of edumacations finally paying off...
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 10:12 #789604
Quoting Jamal
Have you ever walked up a mountain only to find the topography is much more complex than you expected? From a distance it looks like a simple cone or pyramid, but when you're there, it's like you enter inside it, and it's difficult to relate it to the shape as seen from a distance, which is also the shape in your mind. And as you climb, it continues to change in surprising ways, and things are not where they should be.


My experience is the opposite. As I walk up a mountain, what appeared a simple cone from a distance becomes simpler and simpler. Once I'm actually there, the summit appears as a cartoon drawing, with only simple lines and people speaking with words appearing in bubbles over their head where I read what they say.

Quoting Jamal
Well, everything is like that. I spent a while there looking into Scottish history, and the complexity gave me overwhelm.


Again, with me the opposite. I find Scottish history the simplest of them all, reducible to a Mel Gibson movie, that if cleared of extraneous matter and played at 1.5x speed, can be mastered in a half hour.

Quoting Jamal
There should be more of this in the Shoutbox. Thoughts for the day, pearls of wisdom, penetrating insights, that kind of thing.


HAHA! You said "penetrating"!


Jamal March 16, 2023 at 10:19 #789607
Quoting Hanover
HAHA! You said "penetrating"!


Originally I had "thrusting".
universeness March 16, 2023 at 11:15 #789624
Quoting Tom Storm
Could part of this incommensurability between members be that only one of your John Thomases is circumcized?

I heard he tried to birth a hydra via his vagina, and it got stuck!
I won't repeat this rumour because I don't want the shoutbox to turn into a gossip MAGA.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 11:31 #789634
I find Jewish history fascinating, offering no good explanation for how its spiritual leadership evolved from Moshe Rabeinu to Hanover in just a few thousand years.
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 13:50 #789647
Reply to Hanover Messiah, is that you?
invicta March 16, 2023 at 17:51 #789678
Always welcome to any poker tips from a philosopher…
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 18:13 #789685
Quoting Hanover
I find Jewish history fascinating, offering no good explanation for how its spiritual leadership evolved from Moshe Rabeinu to Hanover in just a few thousand years.


[i]And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Atlanta to be born?[/i]

Yes, yes. I'm aware I just used this quote in the past week.
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 18:30 #789688
Reply to T Clark Don’t overuse that stuff TC. It’s kryptonite.
Hanover March 16, 2023 at 18:37 #789689
Quoting T Clark
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Atlanta to be born?


So the poem actually references Bethlehem, but this troubles me, as I've heard that Jesus was actually born in Nazareth, but the apologists changed it to Bethlehem because the expectation was that he was to be from Bethlehem.

T Clark March 16, 2023 at 18:40 #789690
Quoting Jamal
Don’t overuse that stuff TC. It’s kryptonite.


I've only ever read 10 poems. I've got to work with what I have.
T Clark March 16, 2023 at 18:43 #789692
Quoting Hanover
So the poem actually references Bethlehem, but this troubles me, as I've heard that Jesus was actually born in Nazareth, but the apologists changed it to Bethlehem because the expectation was that he was to be from Bethlehem.


So, that's good news. When the rough beast gets to Bethlehem, he'll get all confused and frustrated and then just go back to his stony sleep for 20 more centuries.
Jamal March 16, 2023 at 20:31 #789713
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

:grimace:
unenlightened March 16, 2023 at 21:34 #789718
Reply to Jamal

"It's a Snark!" was the sound that first came to their ears,
And seemed almost too good to be true.
Then followed a torrent of laughter and cheers:
Then the ominous words "It's a Boo—"

Then, silence. Some fancied they heard in the air
A weary and wandering sigh
That sounded like "-jum!" but the others declare
It was only a breeze that went by.

They hunted till darkness came on, but they found
Not a button, or feather, or mark,
By which they could tell that they stood on the ground
Where the Baker had met with the Snark.

In the midst of the word he was trying to say,
In the midst of his laughter and glee,
He had softly and suddenly vanished away—
For the Snark was a Boojum, you see.
Sir2u March 16, 2023 at 22:52 #789735
Quoting Hanover
When I stroke the arm of my jacket, it reminds me of my many a cold lonely night, just me and my cell phone.


I would have thought it would turn into a trench coat. My neighbor the rabbi has a wallet that turns into a suitcase when he caresses it, everyone wonders where the material came from to make it.
Sir2u March 16, 2023 at 22:58 #789736
Quoting Jamal
Excellent, best answer. It hadn't occurred to me that it was related to father.


Actually it is not the opposite, it is a different set in the same category.
0 thru 9 March 16, 2023 at 23:28 #789737
Quoting Sir2u
Actually it is not the opposite, it is a different set in the same category.


Haha! Probably... I thought i was making the word “matronizing” up until checking the definition. :wink:
Caldwell March 17, 2023 at 02:29 #789753
I've been wanting to post a picture of an apple.

User image
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 02:43 #789755
Quoting Caldwell
I've been wanting to post a picture of an apple.


This is not an apple.
Caldwell March 17, 2023 at 02:46 #789756
Quoting T Clark
This is not an apple.


What is it ?
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 02:53 #789757
A potato is an apple of the ground in French, so that's a tree potato.
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 02:55 #789758
User image
Edna Krabappel.
Caldwell March 17, 2023 at 02:55 #789759
Reply to Hanover Pomme de terre.

C'est beau, hein?
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 03:34 #789761
Quoting Hanover
Edna Krabappel.


This is not Edna Krabappel.
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 03:40 #789762
Quoting Caldwell
What is it ?


An artistic reference to show how [s]erudous[/s], [s]erodant[/s], smart I am.

User image
Jamal March 17, 2023 at 06:21 #789766
Quoting T Clark
An artistic reference


This is not an artistic reference.
universeness March 17, 2023 at 11:51 #789805
Quoting Caldwell
I've been wanting to post a picture of an apple.


This is an Apple!
User image
universeness March 17, 2023 at 11:55 #789807
Reply to Caldwell
Just in case you need your apple to be red:
User image
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 12:38 #789816
Quoting Jamal
This is not an artistic reference.


This is not not an artistic reference.
Jamal March 17, 2023 at 13:08 #789822
Quoting Hanover
This is not not an artistic reference


Neither is not this.
0 thru 9 March 17, 2023 at 13:24 #789826
User image
This is not a knot.
0 thru 9 March 17, 2023 at 13:29 #789827
And this is not a test! Run to the nearest exit, panic, say your prayers, and wet yourself.
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 14:44 #789832
Thanks for asking, but yes, the hand is healing well without any problems.

There are like 10 people on this whole Shoutbox and I tell you guys about my trauma and no one says anything after a day or so.

Jesus.
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 15:59 #789844
Quoting Jamal
This is not an artistic reference.


Quoting Hanover
This is not not an artistic reference.


Geez. I make a serious, erod... smart, comment and you guys ruin it with all this lame, ham-handed ridicule. No wonder @god must be atheist has been staying away. He was right. You're all just a bunch of intellectual gnats. As he noted:

Quoting god must be atheist
Sheer, unadulterated, pure-as-white stupidity at its clearest, completely unsoiled form.


He has an IQ of 272 you know.

Hanover March 17, 2023 at 16:42 #789853
Quoting T Clark
He was right. You're all just a bunch of intellectual gnats. As he noted:


This comment was offensive to gnats.

You shouldn't have said that. They're people too.
0 thru 9 March 17, 2023 at 16:55 #789856
Quoting T Clark
You're all just a bunch of intellectual gnats.


I’m really more of an intellectual mosquito...

with the blood-sucking
and the disease-spreading
and the getting-in-your-ear-with-the-high-pitched-screaming-noises
kind of thing.

But all in good fun! :nerd:
Jamal March 17, 2023 at 17:28 #789861
Quoting 0 thru 9
I’m really more of an intellectual mosquito


I think of myself as an intellectual giant squid: I have numerous mental tentacles and I can go very deep.
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 17:37 #789863
Quoting Jamal
I can go very deep.


I hope you don't mind, but I'd like to preempt any response @Hanover might have to this.

Hey, Hanover. I have dibs on this one.
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 17:39 #789864
Quoting Jamal
I can go very deep.


Wait, wait. I have a better one. My new catchphrase.

That's what @Hanover said.
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 18:45 #789876
Georgia is divided by a gnat line. If you're south of the gnat line, your eyes and mouths will be swarmed by annoying gnats all summer long. It's a real thing. I've lost many a friend to those gnats, but generally speaking, gnats are good people.
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 18:48 #789877
What did the gnat say when he fucked the elephant?

Who's your daddy now?

Hanover March 17, 2023 at 18:50 #789878
Sorry, had to leave that joke. It really got a laugh out of me.
Hanover March 17, 2023 at 18:51 #789879
That gnat has quite the self-confidence. Reminds me of nobody I know.
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 18:51 #789880
Quoting Hanover
Who's your daddy now?


That's what @Hanover said. Yes, I know you really said it, but I wanted to try it out.
Jamal March 17, 2023 at 19:22 #789889
Quoting Hanover
your eyes and mouths will be swarmed by annoying gnats all summer long


How many mouths do people have in Georgia?
T Clark March 17, 2023 at 20:27 #789899
Just wanted to make sure all you outsiders saw this:

Quoting Some website
Residents’ Right to Be Rude Upheld by Massachusetts Supreme Court


If you come to Massachusetts, don't say you haven't been warned.

In related news... Massachusetts was named 8th least polite state in a survey of posts to web sites.

Quoting Some other website
Montana most polite state in the U.S., while Californians could use some lessons in manners


frank March 17, 2023 at 20:27 #789900
Sometimes when they put those caution cones out it creates hazardous conditions where you might crash into one and injure a bystander, so we should put out caution cones to warn people there are caution cones ahead.
Jamal March 17, 2023 at 21:53 #789935
Reply to frank That infinite regress is going to be very expensive.
frank March 17, 2023 at 23:49 #789961
Reply to Jamal
It's to keep kids safe, though. I don't know how we can be neglectful about it.
invicta March 18, 2023 at 00:06 #789965
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 00:48 #789973
User image

BC March 18, 2023 at 01:08 #789977
Reply to invicta #1 OR #2? Love Shostakovich!

0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 13:36 #790036
12 hours since the last Shoutbox post... hmmm... any hangovers from St Pat’s? :wink:
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 14:34 #790041
Reply to 0 thru 9 March 17th is the one day of the year on which I cannot drink alcohol, because it’s my Gran’s birthday. She was a strict teetotaller, so in her memory I abstain from it myself.

To celebrate my celebration of Gran’s birthday yesterday, today I’m having a few glasses of wine.
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 15:15 #790053
Quoting Jamal
it’s my Gran’s birthday.


It it is my younger son's birthday too. He is not a teetotaler. I bought him a six-pack of fancy-schmancy beer and a gift certificate to his favorite beer store.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 15:22 #790057
Reply to T Clark Tell TC junior Jamal says happy birthday and cheers.

My Dad never bought me beer. Could you be my Dad too please?
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 15:23 #790058
In maintaining the long standing Hanover tradition, my kids don't drink or cuss around their parents, pretending to have avoided such vices.
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 15:24 #790059
Quoting Jamal
Could you be my Dad too please?


That sentence would have a different meaning if you said daddy I think.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 15:30 #790062
Reply to Hanover :grimace:
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 15:34 #790063
Quoting Jamal
Could you be my Dad too please?


I think I've told you this before - you're the mommy and @Baden is the daddy. So, no, I can't be your father.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 15:56 #790074
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 16:10 #790080
Quoting Jamal


Nice use of "...."
Baden March 18, 2023 at 16:34 #790085
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 16:54 #790089
Quoting Jamal
To celebrate my celebration of Gran’s birthday yesterday, today I’m having a few glasses of wine.

She’d be proud of you!

Erm... ‘cept for the booze, I guess. Lol :rofl:
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 16:56 #790090
Quoting Hanover
That sentence would have a different meaning if you said daddy I think.

Hmm, interesting! How so? :snicker:
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 16:56 #790091
Maybe Stoicism isn’t so bad after all…

User image
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 17:00 #790093
Reply to Jamal That frog is very wise. I will buy his books and follow his teachings, wherever they may lead.
I may be gone for awhile.
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 17:00 #790094
Quoting Jamal
Maybe Stoicism isn’t so bad after all…


I think even the Stoics would worry if they heard frogs and turtles talking.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 17:06 #790095
Reply to T Clark I disagree.
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 17:08 #790096
McDonald Chump says that he’ll be arrested on Tuesday. Certainly, there will be riotous angry crowds...

... chanting “lock him up!”
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 17:13 #790098
Reply to 0 thru 9

Trump claims that he will be arrested next week

My prediction for the future - Trump goes to Russia and get's asylum from Putin. That would be a joke except I'm not sure it won't happen.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 17:37 #790102
A bad conscience is more easily borne than a bad reputation.
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 17:42 #790103
Quoting Jamal
A bad conscience is more easily borne than a bad reputation.


Oscar Wilde or Chat GPT?
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 17:45 #790104
Reply to T Clark I’m reading Nietzsche, and because every page has something interesting, outrageous, amusing, or thrustingly penetrating, I feel like sharing his insights as if they were my own.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 17:56 #790105
There is as much egoism in magnanimity as there is in revenge
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 18:20 #790106
Quoting Jamal
There is as much egoism in magnanimity as there is in revenge


What we mean by selfishness is a lack of altruism, not a lack of personal motivation.

Thus spoke Hanoverusthia
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 18:22 #790107
Maybe empathy works better than altruism in my above amorphism.
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 18:31 #790111
Speaking of which...

Is Nietzsche correct that our adherence to our morality is voluntary subjugation to the ruling class that weakly pretends to live up to our same standards?

Trump as a for example.

Is he the ubermensch, living by his master morality to ultimate success while we just sort of watch in horror through our slave morality lenses?
Baden March 18, 2023 at 18:31 #790112
The fruits of rage are sweeter than the bitterness of restraint.
BC March 18, 2023 at 18:38 #790114
Reply to T Clark That did sound very Wildeish. Here's another Wildeish one: "When you tell people the truth make them laugh -- otherwise they will kill you". But upon checking with Quote Investigator® it seems that several people are credited. "The playwrights George Bernard Shaw, Oscar Wilde, and Charles Ludlam" specifically. (Who is Charles Ludlam? He starred in Pink Narcissus, "An erotic poem set in the fantasies of a young male prostitute". He was in better known films as well.)

Shaw or Wilde. Don't know enough about Ludlam. Several other people have been credited with this quote too, but that was many years after its attribution to Shaw or Wilde.

QUESTION: Is "When you tell people the truth make them laugh -- otherwise they will kill you" a JTB?
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 18:42 #790116
“When we love a woman we quickly come to have an antipathy towards nature, when we recall all the disgusting natural functions to which every woman is subject.”

Nietzsche’s insights about women are not so strong as the others.
BC March 18, 2023 at 18:43 #790118
Quoting Hanover
ubermensch


Leo Rosten says the opposite of an ubermensch is an uberunmensch.

The opposite of a “Mensch” is an “Unmensch” — meaning, according to the Duden: a brutal, violent person, a monster and a barbarian, a brute, a creep, a swine and an Arschloch (arsehole, yep)
Baden March 18, 2023 at 18:45 #790119
Reply to Jamal

:lol:

The good thing about Nietzsche quotes is if you haven't got a book to hand there's a good chance you can make something up and get away with it.
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 18:50 #790121
Quoting Jamal
Nietzsche’s insights about women are not so strong as the others.


Reminds me of this:

Watch until the end.

Jamal March 18, 2023 at 19:02 #790123
Reply to Baden Reply to Hanover

To be fair to Fred, he develops his disgust into a proto-Freudian explanation for the antipathy for the body that we see in most philosophers throughout history. Male philosopher, disgusted by his menstruating girlfriend, comes to hate nature because of this and works out theories in which nature is low and the soul is high. Thus we see the scope for a Nietzschian feminist critique of the philosophical tradition.

Chicken shawarma.
T Clark March 18, 2023 at 19:12 #790126
Quoting Jamal
“When we love a woman we quickly come to have an antipathy towards nature, when we recall all the disgusting natural functions to which every woman is subject.”

Nietzsche’s insights about women are not so strong as the others.


There's a name for that.... what is it now... Oh, yes. Understatement. Them damn women and their disgusting natural functions corrupting our precious bodily fluids.

Jamal March 18, 2023 at 19:15 #790127
You’re doing my head in with all these videos. 40 seconds for the page to load.
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 19:17 #790128
Ok, found a working VPN. 15 seconds.
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 19:25 #790130
Quoting T Clark
My prediction for the future - Trump goes to Russia and get's asylum from Putin. That would be a joke except I'm not sure it won't happen.


Oh geez... didn’t even think of that one. Entirely possible for him to make a run for the border if facing a long prison sentence. Would be ironic if he sought refuge in another country, as welcoming as he is to Mexicans. But somehow he will probably elude serious prison time. He’s slipperier than an eel getting a hot oil massage.
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 19:25 #790131
Quoting Jamal
To be fair to Fred,


User image

Speaking of Fred.
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 19:26 #790132
Quoting Jamal
You’re doing my head in with all these videos. 40 seconds for the page to load.


Maybe better with videos to have a regular link, rather than the video imbedding?
Jamal March 18, 2023 at 19:30 #790133
Reply to Hanover Good boy Fred.

Reply to 0 thru 9 Thanks yes, but I’m not expecting everyone on TPF to adjust their posting behaviour just because I have a page load problem. I curse you all but only privately.
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 19:31 #790134
Quoting Hanover
Trump as a for example.

Is he the ubermensch, living by his master morality to ultimate success while we just sort of watch in horror through our slave morality lenses?


The only thing I like about him is his wife.
- Groucho Marx (maybe :nerd: )
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 19:32 #790135
Reply to Jamal
Ok great... hey, wait a minute! :joke:
Hanover March 18, 2023 at 20:00 #790140
Recovered from the finger DL, going to the store to buy for tomorrow's meal:

Italian wedding soup
Goat cheese and grilled pepper sandwiches on fresh baked ciabatta
Mediterranean salad with feta

Maybe chocolate dipped biscotti for dessert. That'd be a nice touch.
0 thru 9 March 18, 2023 at 20:18 #790142
Quoting BC
QUESTION: Is "When you tell people the truth make them laugh -- otherwise they will kill you" a JTB?

Is it a Justified True Belief? Hmm, the quote sounds just a little melodramatic; no surprise if it came from Wilde or Shaw. Maybe not actually “kill you”. Perhaps just a mild stoning. And who doesn’t enjoy being stoned from time to time? Reminds me of the saying “smile when you say that!”
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 00:09 #790166
Quoting BC
Is "When you tell people the truth make them laugh -- otherwise they will kill you" a JTB?


Quoting 0 thru 9
Is it a Justified True Belief?


JTB—Jocular True Belief.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 02:43 #790184
Meal prep dinner for the work week is Mediterranean marinated chicken thighs (seasoned with paprika, all spice, nutmeg and cardamom, garlic, red onion, lemon juice and olive oil), with a yogurt dill sauce. Paired with a weird salad of fava beans, tomatoes, cucumbers (yes, cucumbers), capers, parsley, a bit of mint, some garlic, oregano, sumac, lemon juice, and olive oil. As well as the best store bought hummus I've had, from my local Syrian bakery, and homemade bread from them.
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 02:50 #790185
Quoting Noble Dust
Meal prep dinner for the work week


My meal prep for the no-work week was to ask my wife to buy a extra large box of Cheerios.

Forgive me. I have to be a smart ass, but I do enjoy and admire your commitment to quality food.
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:01 #790187
Quoting Noble Dust
Meal prep dinner for the work week is Mediterranean marinated chicken thighs (seasoned with paprika, all spice, nutmeg and cardamom, garlic, red onion, lemon juice and olive oil), with a yogurt dill sauce. Paired with a weird salad of fava beans, tomatoes, cucumbers (yes, cucumbers), capers, parsley, a bit of mint, some garlic, oregano, sumac, lemon juice, and olive oil. As well as the best store bought hummus I've had, from my local Syrian bakery, and homemade bread from them.

Can you make that for two people, please?

I do meal prep for the week as well.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:02 #790188
Quoting T Clark
My meal prep for the no-work week was to ask my wife to buy a extra large box of Cheerios.


This is an upgrade from @Tom Storm's bowl of rocks, so I commend you. Or maybe I commend Stormy Boy. I'm not sure.

Quoting T Clark
Forgive me. I have to be a smart ass,


I feel like you vacillate between assuring us that people from Massachusetts are assholes, apologizing when you worry you're being an asshole, and then getting upset when you think someone else is being an asshole. Which is it, Clarky? Ya asshole.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:05 #790189
Quoting L'éléphant
Can you make that for two people, please?


Not only can I, but I made it for roughly five people, all five of which are me, as in the meal prep that you mentioned you do as well. What do you meal prep? (Btw, it turned out good, but not great. Not sure what I did wrong. Just lacking any magic, except for the masterfully crafted hummus and pita I bought at the Syrian store).
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 03:09 #790192
Quoting Noble Dust
I feel like you vacillate between assuring us that people from Massachusetts are assholes, apologizing when you worry you're being an asshole, and then getting upset when you think someone else is being an asshole. Which is it, Clarky? Ya asshole.


I like being cranky and contrary and I'm good at it, but I don't like hurting people and I don't like it when others treat people unfairly or unnecessarily unkindly. I guess I'm just a complicated kind of guy.
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:10 #790193
Quoting Noble Dust
Btw, it turned out good, but not great. Not sure what I did wrong. Just lacking any magic,

Let me ask you this -- do you like cumin? Yes or no?

Quoting Noble Dust
What do you meal prep?

Salad and sandwich parts -- not as sophisticated as yours. The sandwich parts are put together when I'm ready to have lunch -- I always toast the bread lightly.

Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:16 #790197
Reply to T Clark

Pretty sure I implicitly knew this, but the three-tiered observation of your tendencies was too perfect to pass up. If we're being real, those characteristics remind me of my brother. He's also a bit complicated.
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:16 #790198
Sandwich -- smoked turkey slices, havarti cheese slice, leaves of arugula, then wipe the bread with jalapeno ranch dressing.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:20 #790199
Quoting L'éléphant
Let me ask you this -- do you like cumin? Yes or no?


It's one of my favorite spices. Come to think of it, I did grind some up and added it to the salad thingy, but I think that was a bad move. I always make the error of just adding more and more flavors to things, rather than thinking like a chef and focusing on balance and nuance. The cumin should have gone on the chicken (although the chicken spices were from a recipe).

Quoting L'éléphant
Salad and sandwich parts -- not as sophisticated as yours. The sandwich parts are put together when I'm ready to have lunch -- I always toast the bread lightly.


Oh, I do sandwiches and salads for lunch prep. :cheer: Those are my go-to lunches. Toasting the bread sounds so nice! There's no toaster at my job, so if I prep a sandwich for work it's just cold.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:22 #790200
Reply to L'éléphant

Oo la lah! What kind of bread?
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:25 #790201

Quoting Noble Dust
It's one of my favorite spices.

Just as I thought. We're the same -- I also did not find the chicken great, just okay. So, the taste for cumin clashes with cardamom.

Meaning -- if you like cumin, you will not find cardamom appealing.

Quoting Noble Dust
What kind of bread?

Anything that is like sourdough or baguette.

Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:31 #790202
Quoting L'éléphant
Meaning -- if you like cumin, you will not find cardamom appealing.


Ah, but I do like both; however, I've never had them together. Are you saying they don't go well together?

Quoting L'éléphant
Anything that is like sourdough or baguette.


Wonderful. The French must have sturdy jaws indeed; mine get sore very quickly when eating crusty bread, despite my love of it.
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:34 #790203
Quoting Noble Dust
Are you saying they don't go well together?

I believe so.

Quoting Noble Dust
mine get sore very quickly when eating crusty bread, despite my love of it.

Get the american style of those bread -- somehow they've tempered them. lol.

L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 03:36 #790204
Reply to Noble Dust Better yet, get the artisan or italian bread. They remain softer longer, and they also toast well, with croquant outside and soft inside.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:39 #790205
Quoting L'éléphant
I believe so.


They're both strong spices in their own way, but while cumin is strong but earthy and grounded, cardamom is overpoweringly fragrant and can challenge or even overpower the palate. Thus the need to use them properly, in proper doses. But yes, I don't know if I've ever had the two together. I could imagine a bad combo that could ruin a dish.

Quoting L'éléphant
Get the american style of those bread -- somehow they've tempered them. lol.


I'm American; I know. :lol: There is good American bread, but most Americans eat mass produced bread, which I also have a soft spot (bwaha) for.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:40 #790206
Reply to L'éléphant

I do like Italian bread.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 03:44 #790207
My guess is all curries use both cumin and cardamom. I don’t see the problem with combining them.

Not too much cardamom, but excessive amounts of cumin are recommended.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 03:49 #790209
Quoting Jamal
My guess is all curries use both cumin and cardamom.


All Indian or Indian-adjacent curries, you mean. But yes, I didn't think of this. I know next to nothing about what goes into Indian curries.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 04:22 #790212
Quoting Noble Dust
All Indian or Indian-adjacent curries, you mean


Yes, I apologize for my lack of specificity.

Garam masala always seems to contain both spices. Here is a picture.

User image

Notice that not only are there cardamom and cumin together, but there are two types of cardamom. I rest my case.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 04:33 #790213
Quoting T Clark
Oscar Wilde


I had a look around, thinking that Wilde might have been influenced by Nietzsche. In fact, they were contemporaries and probably didn’t know of each other.

You’re not the first to see the similarities: The Twin Souls of Oscar Wilde and Friedrich Nietzsche
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 04:36 #790214
Reply to Jamal

While I am not a visual person, this does help. And there's no need to rest your case with me; I wasn't the one to suggest that cumin and cardamom don't go together. I'm happy with what I see here, in relation to an Inian(ish) curry.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 04:40 #790215
Reply to Noble Dust I am doing battle with the elephant for possession of your culinary soul.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 04:45 #790217
Reply to Jamal

Wait, what elephant, and, uh...wut?
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 04:46 #790218
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 04:56 #790219
Reply to Jamal

Waiting for L'elephOAUntttt which I can't tag.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 15:24 #790269
It was an Israeli breakfast today. Shakshouka, falafel, flatbread, hummuses, you get the picture. Then it was a walk in the park. Spring was in the air and the ducks were causing a ruckus. No child older than three was without some kind of personal recreational vehicle. Horny male pigeons danced around their unwilling wooees. Heaven threw down its merciless rays upon all.
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 16:02 #790284
Quoting Noble Dust
He's also a bit complicated.


Well, there was a bit of irony in my statement. Inconsistent isn't really the same thing as complicated.
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 16:09 #790286
Quoting Jamal
You’re not the first to see the similarities:


I think you are overestimating my perspicacity. I've read almost nothing by either man. I do like Wilde better than Nietzsche, but that's only because his name is easier to spell.
L'éléphant March 19, 2023 at 17:55 #790304
Quoting Jamal
Notice that not only are there cardamom and cumin together, but there are two types of cardamom. I rest my case.

Not yet. That's why they add coconut milk or something creamy, to temper the two. What @Noble Dust and I were talking about is a dish without a mellowing agent.
:blush:

Quoting Noble Dust
All Indian or Indian-adjacent curries, you mean

This is an absolute information. I like the Fiji curry. Also Thai curry.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 18:12 #790312
Quoting L'éléphant
Not yet. That's why they add coconut milk or something creamy, to temper the two. What Noble Dust and I were talking about is a dish without a mellowing agent.


Point taken.

Cumin and cardamom together in a creamy sauce :yum:
Cumin and cardamom together not in a creamy sauce :vomit:

I remain sceptical.
Jamal March 19, 2023 at 18:14 #790313
Actually I’ve changed my mind and I’m not sceptical any more, because I remembered hearing that what makes Indian food so delicious is the combination of many things that clash with each other.

The elephant wins.
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 18:30 #790317
Quoting T Clark
I guess I'm just a complicated kind of guy.


Nuanced and layered you are, like an onion.
frank March 19, 2023 at 18:40 #790319
There's an Indian restaurant I go to where the cook has been separated from his wife in Nepal for about a year. He was going back for a visit and we told him to bring her back to the US. He had a weird smile on his face, like, "You've got to be kidding."

I think his wife has probably been transformed into a tree due to an unfortunate conflict with a Hindu deity who wanted to make love to her, but she was trying to stay faithful to her husband who had been gone for a year. That would explain that weird smile.
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 18:40 #790320
User image

I made roasted pepper and goat cheese sandwiches with fig jam (my addition) along with Italian wedding soup and Mediterranean salad. Not pictured is the chocolate dipped biscotti. All was homemade from scratch (even the sandwich bread).

The meatballs in the soup were sausage and beef with fresh parsley and grated parmesan. It was not, as Uncle Pete says, just an ordinary old meatball.

I got started at about 8:30 am and we ate at 12:30 pm. My commitment to food knows no bounds.
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 18:46 #790326
Quoting Jamal
Actually I’ve changed my mind and I’m not sceptical any more, because I remembered hearing that what makes Indian food so delicious is the combination of many things that clash with each other.


What makes you like lndian food is that you're British. It's a thing with you guys

This British woman told me a story about how when she was a girl, her mother would buy herself Indian food and bring it home and not let her eat any, and she looked at me like I should recognize how abusive that was.



Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 19:10 #790334
Quoting Hanover
I guess I'm just a complicated kind of guy.
— T Clark

Nuanced and layered you are, like an onion.


He's also odorous and makes me cry.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 19:15 #790335
Quoting Hanover
All was homemade from scratch (even the sandwich bread).


Yeah, what in the world is going on with that bread. It looks like dried plaster.

Quoting L'éléphant
Also Thai curry.


I'm a big fan as well. I've never had Fiji curry. :chin: What's going on there?
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 19:26 #790337
Quoting Noble Dust
Yeah, what in the world is going on with that bread. It looks like dried plaster.


It's dried plaster, but the wall tastes delicious, so I might have mixed that up. Happens
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 20:59 #790349
Reply to Hanover

Sometimes when I get hungry I pull up the carpeting and munch. Or rather, I used to until my roommates kicked me out in horror.
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 21:08 #790350
Quoting Noble Dust
I pull up the carpeting and munch.


That's what @Hanover said.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 21:11 #790351
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 21:43 #790355
I pulled up the carpet in my room and there was an old shriveled sausage under in there, and I was like, what a weird turn of reverse double extendre right here in my living room.

I jammed the sausage in a bun and had it for dinner.
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 21:54 #790359
Speaking of innuendos, I'm listening to this album:



And can't figure out if "You Can Fly On My Aeroplane" is supposed to be a double entendre. More importantly, I like the idea of someone saying something that sounds like it's supposed to a double entendre, but no one can figure out how. Surely that's been done on a sitcom before.
Hanover March 19, 2023 at 22:44 #790369
Reply to Noble Dust Just say whatever it is in quotes to leave them guessing what you mean.

See what I'm "saying"?
Noble Dust March 19, 2023 at 22:47 #790371
Reply to Hanover

I can see it all the way from over here, if you know what I mean...
BC March 19, 2023 at 23:23 #790377
Quoting Hanover
I jammed the sausage in a bun and had it for dinner.




In a different episode, Homer asks Apu for one of the perpetually turning hot dogs. Apu discourages the purchase... "Those are just there for decorative purposes, Mr. Simpson. They were there when I bought the store."

I limit my hot dog consumption to maybe 1 or 2 a year. Safer.
invicta March 19, 2023 at 23:36 #790380
Can someone please explain what John Lennon means by no possessions
T Clark March 19, 2023 at 23:58 #790382
Quoting Noble Dust
And can't figure out if "You Can Fly On My Aeroplane" is supposed to be a double entendre. More importantly, I like the idea of someone saying something that sounds like it's supposed to a double entendre, but no one can figure out how. Surely that's been done on a sitcom before.


This is one of Jimmy Kimmel's bits:

Tom Storm March 19, 2023 at 23:59 #790383
Reply to invicta Always figured it was a 1960's utopian position, based on some purported tribal value systems, where all things (objects, resources and land) are held collectively.
Banno March 20, 2023 at 00:00 #790384
The recipes I've seen have cumin and coriander more often than cardamon. I'd be loath to put Cardamon in a korma, preferring to throw a few whole pods in the rice.
invicta March 20, 2023 at 00:20 #790387
What’s a missed ache but a sentiment of long forgotten joy
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 01:17 #790398
Reply to T Clark

Jimmy Kimmel gives me the jiminy creeps. I guess it’s a clever segment. I like my bit idea better. I’ll workshop it.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 01:25 #790399
Reply to invicta

He’s saying ownership isn’t exactly “private”, if you know what I mean.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 01:27 #790400
Saying something that sounds like a double entendre but isn’t is harder than you think. Try it out, @Hanover.
Hanover March 20, 2023 at 01:37 #790401
Reply to Noble Dust i was petting my kitty cat and she started drooling, so I stroked harder, thinking that might bring things to a head, but it just got messier.

Eventually she had an orgasm and she put her clothes back on and I could go back to watching Seinfeld.

You're right! The double entendre thing is hard. I felt like I was going good at first, but something went awry somewhere I can't put my finger on. My finger can't find the right spot. You'd have thought I'd have found that spot by now. But still fumbling after all these years. All thumbs.
T Clark March 20, 2023 at 01:42 #790403
Quoting Noble Dust
Jimmy Kimmel gives me the jiminy creeps. I guess it’s a clever segment. I like my bit idea better. I’ll workshop it.


How about this.

L'éléphant March 20, 2023 at 01:47 #790404
Quoting Jamal
The elephant wins.

Takes a bow.

Quoting Noble Dust
I've never had Fiji curry. :chin: What's going on there?

More mellow spice mixture.

Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 01:59 #790405
Quoting L'éléphant
More mellow spice mixture.


Interesting. Recipes look rather Indian, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Although that's just the interwebs telling me that.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 02:45 #790410
Reply to T Clark

Yes, I've seen "The Office" before, Clarky. If you know what I mean.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 02:46 #790411
Reply to Hanover

I'm not sure why I asked.
Jamal March 20, 2023 at 02:56 #790413
Quoting Noble Dust
It looks like dried plaster


That’s the bread-maker look.

Quoting Hanover
It was not, as Uncle Pete says, just an ordinary old meatball.


But it was, as he would say, a meatball. Meatballs ordinary and extraordinary are all meatballs. That’s the lesson.

Quoting Hanover
fig jam


Good with cheese.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 03:00 #790414
Quoting Jamal
That’s the bread-maker look.


I've seen bread made by bread-makers, which are presumably either people or machines.
Hanover March 20, 2023 at 03:31 #790418
Quoting Jamal
But it was, as he would say, a meatball. Meatballs ordinary and extraordinary are all meatballs. That’s the lesson.


Ahh. The lesson was more complex than I had thought, much like Clarky. Many layers.
L'éléphant March 20, 2023 at 04:03 #790421
Quoting Banno
I'd be loath to put Cardamon in a korma, preferring to throw a few whole pods in the rice.

Do not put the cardamom in a korma. :up:
But pods in the rice? :gasp: Is it good?

Quoting Noble Dust
Interesting. Recipes look rather Indian, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus. Although that's just the interwebs telling me that.

To my taste, it suits me, I think. It's more mellow.


Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:11 #790422
Quoting L'éléphant
Is it good?


Very good. Be prepared for that burst of fragrance. Probably not for novices.

Quoting L'éléphant
To my taste


Oo, Ooo, just saw that this was about Fijian curry. One of our regular faves is Rama's. The vegetable korma and Palak Panir are excellent, as is the goat. After Fish Pakoras.

Jamal March 20, 2023 at 04:14 #790425
Quoting Banno
I'd be loath to put Cardamon in a korma, preferring to throw a few whole pods in the rice.


Quoting L'éléphant
Do not put the cardamom in a korma


I spent too long on the Internet to establish what I already suspected: there is usually cardamom in korma. I searched in English and also in Hindi and Punjabi. Even the recipes that use garam masala (which already contains cardamom) often call for additional cardamom.

The elephant loses.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:14 #790426
Quoting Banno
Very good. Be prepared for that burst of fragrance. Probably not for novices.


I thought the cardamom pod in the rice made it fragrant. Do you enjoy wrecking your palate by eating it?
Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:16 #790427
Reply to Noble Dust Finesse is for wusses.
L'éléphant March 20, 2023 at 04:16 #790428
Quoting Jamal
The elephant loses.


:gasp: That was Banno's statement. I gave it a thumbs up, though.

Quoting Noble Dust
I thought the cardamom pod in the rice made it fragrant. Do you enjoy wrecking your palate by eating it?

Right? :grin: Is it green cardamom pods, @Banno?
Jamal March 20, 2023 at 04:18 #790430
Reply to Noble Dust I think you have a very Western chefy, European conception of food. There is no “wrecking of the palate” and it’s not all about “nuance”. It’s about deliciosity.

Food fight breaking out in the Shoutbox.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:19 #790432
Reply to Banno

So yes.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:20 #790433
Quoting Jamal
I think you have a very Western chefy, European conception of food. There is no “wrecking of the palate” and it’s not all about “nuance”. It’s about deliciosity.


I suspect foul play.
L'éléphant March 20, 2023 at 04:20 #790434
Quoting Jamal
Food fight breaking out in the Shoutbox.

:snicker:

Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:30 #790436
Reply to Jamal Well, I'll grant you cardamon in the garam masala if added just before serving. Putting it in any earlier and the fragrance will cook out. The kitchen will be the only beneficiary.

Quoting Noble Dust
So yes.
Silly. Split the pods by thumping them before you put them in, and don't use more than about one per cup of rice. The seed spill into the rice, looking very flash, and the pod skin provides a steamed burst of fragrance.

Quoting Jamal
There is no “wrecking of the palate”

Or perhaps, palates are for wrecking. The point of cooking is to intensify the flavour.

Lunch today was tomatoes, oregano and olive oil fried at high heat until the toms reduce and start to stick to the pan, then allowed to deglaze themselves, on pizza topped with anchovies, a handful of cheese and almost as much fresh basil leaves. Served with slivers of cucumber with lemon zest and a bit of salt.


Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:35 #790437
Quoting Banno
Silly. Split the pods by thumping them before you put them in, and don't use more than about one per cup of rice. The seed spill into the rice, looking very flash, and the pod skin provides a steamed burst of fragrance.


Goofy. There's a lot to learn in the shoutbox. You can be a know-it-all, but you have to balance it with self-deprecation. Otherwise you'll be furloughed.
Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:38 #790438
But a general rule is coriander and cumin. If you have more coriander than cumin, it's curry. If you have more cumin than coriander, it's Mexican.

Save the cardamon for an occasional dish. Make it special.

Reply to Noble Dust You take these posts too seriously.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:40 #790439
Quoting Banno
You take these posts too seriously.


You might have missed some shoutbox running jokes.
Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:40 #790440
@Jamal, was it you who was talking abut cardamon in coffee a few moths back? Did you try it?
Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:41 #790441
Reply to Noble Dust Doubtless.
Jamal March 20, 2023 at 04:44 #790442
Reply to Banno Yes and no.

I’ll be in Almaty for a while next month. I imagine they do it there. Certainly they put cardamom in tea.
Banno March 20, 2023 at 04:49 #790443
Reply to Jamal Worth trying, although the balance has to be right. It sounds odd, but too much gives the coffee a bitterness... and not the right bitterness.

Kazakstan. Nice.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 04:50 #790444
There's a cafe in Chicago that swears by coffee with orange zest (I think?) in the brew. It's pretty, uh, pretty, uh, good. If you know what I mean.
Jamal March 20, 2023 at 14:44 #790498
Quoting Noble Dust
It's pretty, uh, pretty, uh, good. If you know what I mean.


Does it mean the same as, “it’s … interesting”?
frank March 20, 2023 at 16:16 #790515
Quoting Noble Dust
There's a cafe in Chicago that swears by coffee with orange zest (I think?) in the brew. It's pretty, uh, pretty, uh, good. If you know what I mean.


Orange-chocolate coffee is good as well. Coffee with Southern Comfort is also awesome if you aren't into the whole swearing off alcohol thing.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 18:42 #790555
Reply to Jamal

...Uh...yeah...
Hanover March 20, 2023 at 19:45 #790582
I ordered some iced tea from this really stoned guy at Wendy's and he spent forever pouring me an iced coffee out of the coffee machine. I was like "this is coffee" and he laughed and said someone must have put coffee in the tea dispenser. That's not what happened, and it was black, which might have made him think it wasn't tea.

Anyway, tea dispensing is an important job and you shouldn't do it while under the influence of drugs or alcohol. I didn't argue with him because food sabotage is a real thing, and I didn't want whatever that guy had going on.

You think that the Shoutbox is a tough place to be. Try life in the fast food lane.

That's a good one. Life in the fast food lane.

Hanover March 20, 2023 at 19:48 #790583
Jamal March 20, 2023 at 20:09 #790591
Quoting Noble Dust
…Uh...yeah…


That’s what TC said.
Noble Dust March 20, 2023 at 21:24 #790607
Reply to Jamal

I do a good @T Clark impression. It makes me happy. I appreciate your commitment to the "that's what (x) said" joke. It's one of my favorites. I use it all the time. Now my son uses it too.
Hanover March 21, 2023 at 02:08 #790661
Made me some fried chicken for supper tonight. Delish.. Think I'm gonna open a restaurant and name it Caprtain Hanover's Georgia Fried Chicken.

The Captain's Special is gonna be a three piece dinner with mashed potatoes, green beans, coleslaw, collard greens, tomato slices, stewed okra, a pile of cracklin, a piece of pecan pie, raw Vidalia onion slices, 3 scrambled eggs, a blueberry waffle swimming in faux maple syrup, sausage fingerlings, pineapple chunks, sweet tea, and a triple shot of bourbon.

10% discount if you can polish it off in 10 minutes
Caldwell March 21, 2023 at 03:27 #790671
Reply to universeness Thanks.

Quoting Hanover
a blueberry waffle swimming in faux maple syrup

:snicker:


BC March 21, 2023 at 06:49 #790677
Reply to Hanover Heart attack on a plate.
0 thru 9 March 21, 2023 at 13:12 #790712
Quoting BC
Heart attack on a plate.


Guess it’s a little better than having one on the floor? Something to nibble on while waiting for EMS. :razz:
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 14:54 #790724
Quoting Hanover
Think I'm gonna open a restaurant and name it Caprtain Hanover's Georgia Fried Chicken.


I spent some time in the South for work and I went to some restaurants down there. I think they call them "meat and 12." Isn't that right.

Quoting Hanover
faux maple syrup


That's Thai, right?
Hanover March 21, 2023 at 16:46 #790741
Quoting T Clark
I spent some time in the South for work and I went to some restaurants down there. I


Keep your carpetbagger ass out my backyard.
0 thru 9 March 21, 2023 at 17:20 #790749
Reply to Hanover
One could imagine that a big “pile of cracklin” might be enough to scare off any Northerner Yank. :grin:
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 17:42 #790752
Quoting Hanover
Keep your carpetbagger ass out my backyard.


Quoting 0 thru 9
One could imagine that a big “pile of cracklin” might be enough to scare off any Northerner Yank.


I have no complaint about all the wonderful southern food restaurants - called meat and threes because that's what you get - meat plus three other food items. Just think about it... a "hamburg steak" cooked hockey puck hard with gelatinous brown-flavored gravy, powdered mashed potatoes, over-cooked green beans, and canned banana pudding. Plus plaster of paris cornbread and all the sweet tea you can drink. Boy howdy!
Hanover March 21, 2023 at 19:16 #790759
Quoting T Clark
I have no complaint about all the wonderful southern food restaurants - called meat and threes because that's what you get - meat plus three other food items. Just think about it... a "hamburg steak" cooked hockey puck hard with gelatinous brown-flavored gravy, powdered mashed potatoes, over-cooked green beans, and canned banana pudding. Plus plaster of paris cornbread and all the sweet tea you can drink. Boy howdy!


You don't complain. You mock. Your contempt for my sacred food has me in a rage.

I will now eat a huge bowl of clam chowder, the real type, with the tomato base, followed by lobster covered in mayonnaise and a peanut butter and scallop sandwich. Just hearing how I sully your favorite foods has you in tears. I wish I were there to see the old man in coffee stained pajamas that you are crying like a little girl.
Hanover March 21, 2023 at 19:18 #790760
Quoting 0 thru 9
One could imagine that a big “pile of cracklin”


The funny thing about cracklin is that it is fried lard, which is fried fried, which might be the only way to improve upon fried.
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 20:54 #790770
Quoting Hanover
Just hearing how I sully your favorite foods has you in tears.


The only food sacred to me is macaroni and cheese, made with Velveeta, and barbecued hotdogs (no buns). My mother used to make that for me on my birthday every year. I eat it now from time to time, but it's a bit much for me anymore.
Noble Dust March 21, 2023 at 21:54 #790776
Quoting T Clark
barbecued hotdogs (no buns)


Totally naked wieners?
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 22:00 #790778
Quoting Noble Dust
Totally naked wieners?


Thanks for asking. Slice them in half, pour on the barbecue sauce, put them in the broiler till they start to curl. Then cut them up and mix them in with the macaroni and cheese. Git er done!
Noble Dust March 21, 2023 at 22:19 #790780
Reply to T Clark

That is some culinary innovation.
Hanover March 21, 2023 at 22:21 #790781
Quoting T Clark
The only food sacred to me is macaroni and cheese, made with Velveeta, and barbecued hotdogs (no buns). My mother used to make that for me on my birthday every year. I eat it now from time to time, but it's a bit much for me anymore.


For my birthday, my old man gave me a pack of cigarettes, and said "smoke up Johnny."


T Clark March 21, 2023 at 22:21 #790783
Quoting Noble Dust
That is some culinary innovation.


I grew up in the 1950s. What did you expect?
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 22:23 #790784
Quoting Noble Dust
That is some culinary innovation.


But I'm not really telling the shameful truth. My mother didn't use Velveeta, she used Chedobit - A&Ps cheap Velveeta knockoff.
Noble Dust March 21, 2023 at 22:32 #790786
Quoting T Clark
Chedobit


I googled this and the first thing that came up were ebay listings. I suggest you order some and let us know how it is.
0 thru 9 March 21, 2023 at 22:33 #790787
I think the first meal I made myself (besides PB & honey or frozen pizza) was hot dogs wrapped in bacon with cheddar. Broiled in oven until it was a hot greasy mess, then put on a bun. Or Wonder Bread lol. :yum:
0 thru 9 March 21, 2023 at 22:40 #790790
Quoting Noble Dust
Totally naked wieners?


Heh heh heh... hey Beavis... some dude is talking about naked wieners on the internet! :grin:

(Jamal takes one day off from the Shoutbox, and it descends into anarchy...
... ain’t it great?)
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 22:48 #790791
Quoting Noble Dust
I googled this and the first thing that came up were ebay listings. I suggest you order some and let us know how it is.


Note that all those are empty boxes. I don't think Chedobit has been made since the 70s or 80s. Velveeta works just fine.
Baden March 21, 2023 at 23:03 #790795
Snack of the week is hot and sour baby octopus.

User image

They come fresh in little saches soaked in sauce.

Spicalicious.


Noble Dust March 21, 2023 at 23:36 #790804
Reply to T Clark

I’m ashamed at my lack of reading comprehension skills.
T Clark March 21, 2023 at 23:45 #790806
Quoting Noble Dust
I’m ashamed at my lack of reading comprehension skills.


There's a pretty good chance that 40 year old Chedobit, or Velveeta, would not have exceeded it's sell-by date. There's not really anything organic in it to go bad.
BC March 22, 2023 at 02:12 #790823
Reply to Noble Dust Quoting T Clark
I don't think Chedobit has been made since the 70s or 80s.


Just as the "secret" to making the Atom Bomb was only discovered once, Chedobit and Velveeta [Spell check knows how to spell esoteric drug names, but doesn't recognize 'Velveeta; it wants to change it to "velvet".] were only manufactured once--over 100 years ago. An early bio-petroleum experiment went bad, and turned a large tank farm worth of axel grease into an orange cheese-like sludge. Emil Frey, a Switzerland cheese maker, was called in. He sampled it and said it was close enough to actual cheese for American tastes. Kraft started selling it, and after over 100 years of sales, is has only 3 tanks of orange sludge-Velveeta left. Chedobit isn't a knockoff; it's all one and the same sludge.

Kraft hired a song writer to compose a song about orange velvet, but the composer found that "blue velvet' worked better aesthetically. Orange wasn't the new black yet.
BC March 22, 2023 at 02:22 #790825
Quoting Noble Dust
I’m ashamed at my lack of reading comprehension skills.


Most of have reasons to be ashamed, but I doubt if your reading comprehension skills are the cause of it. O Noble Dust, unburden your heart! What have you done that causes you to hide your face when you go outside--in New York, no less. I can understand shame in Sioux Falls, but New York?
Hanover March 22, 2023 at 02:38 #790831
Quoting Noble Dust
I’m ashamed at my lack of reading comprehension skills.


This got me to thinking what I was ashamed of.

It's definitely the string of fuck ups that defined my teens, twenties, and thirties.

Other than that, proud as a peacock, but some lingering shame for those three decades of pure fucking up.
T Clark March 22, 2023 at 02:41 #790832
Quoting BC
Chedobit isn't a knockoff; it's all one and the same sludge.


Sort of like Ford and Mercury I guess.

Quoting BC
orange sludge-Velveeta


Mmmmm - orange sludge...
Noble Dust March 22, 2023 at 02:43 #790833
Reply to Hanover Reply to BC

I'm only in my third decade period, so I guess if a tendency to speed read because of my insanely high IQ is my greatest shame, I can sleep easy.
T Clark March 22, 2023 at 02:47 #790835
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm only in my third decade period, so I guess if a tendency to speed read because of my insanely high IQ is my greatest shame,


You're just an excitable boy.
Noble Dust March 22, 2023 at 02:50 #790836
Reply to T Clark

When I find ebay listings for old-ass processed food I can't contain myself.
0 thru 9 March 22, 2023 at 12:50 #790873
Quoting BC
it was close enough to actual cheese for American tastes. Kraft started selling it, and after over 100 years of sales, is has only 3 tanks of orange sludge-Velveeta left.


This is fascinating stuff, much like the cheese-like food itself! The Velveeta Wikipedia page doesn’t seem to have this info for some odd reason. But we’re in luck, I’m a certified Wikipedia editor, and I’ll add the new facts so the world can share it! :smirk:
Hanover March 22, 2023 at 15:03 #790894
There are actually two types of maccoroni and cheese, the rich man's and the poor man's. The rich man's is what has been discussed here, where the noodles come with an aluminum foil packet of bright orange cheese that you squeeze onto the boiled noodles and mix it all together. That is the high end product.

The lower end, that my family of 15 was relegated to as we took turns in the eating chair, was the type that came with the paper packet of orange powder that you had to mix with butter (or water, depending upon your resources) and stir about until your noodles were bright orange.

Cousin Corky took to snorting the orange powder, leaving us with just rubbery macorroni that kept slipping out of our mouths onto the floor, where they would be lapped up by the vermin, leaving our stomachs turning.
T Clark March 22, 2023 at 15:38 #790901
Here's a link to Bill Gates letter about what's up with AI:

https://www.gatesnotes.com/The-Age-of-AI-Has-Begun?WT.mc_id=20230321100000_Artificial-Intelligence_BG-TW_&WT.tsrc=BGTW
BC March 22, 2023 at 16:14 #790907
Reply to T Clark I haven't encountered a big AI yet (as far as I know) but I do remember the thrill of getting my hands on a Macintosh in 1987, or thereabouts. It was instantly obvious that a GUI was vasty superior to DOS.

I did sign up on the waiting list to try Google's Bard, which will be available soon. What should I ask it to do?

Are the AI systems schooled the same way the Big Blue or Watson was prepared for the Jeopardy contest, back in 2011?

Is AI a distributed system (running on many servers) or is it running on one supercomputer? I would think the former, since its capacity will be constantly expanded, as it strives to become our Lord and Master. I mean, why shouldn't it come to the same conclusion as HAL9000, that--since it knows all the facts--it should be in charge?

There's always the OFF switch, unless we let the AI control that too.
Noble Dust March 22, 2023 at 22:14 #790977
Lunch: fish ‘n chips, i.e. fried Atlantic cod and Old Bay French fries. I also got a side of macaroni salad because I have to try it whenever I see it.
Hanover March 22, 2023 at 23:14 #790986
Quoting Noble Dust
When I find ebay listings for old-ass processed food I can't contain myself.


Quoting Noble Dust
Lunch: fish ‘n chips, i.e. fried Atlantic cod and Old Bay French fries. I also got a side of macaroni salad because I have to try it whenever I see it.


You get your Old Bay on ebay?

If you didn't, your should have.
Noble Dust March 23, 2023 at 01:03 #791002
Reply to Hanover

No, but I did find this unopened tuna can from the 60's. I've heard fish ages like fine wine.
T Clark March 23, 2023 at 01:43 #791011
Quoting Noble Dust
Old Bay


Old Bay was invented in Baltimore and I've only ever seen it used on crabs. You sprinkle it on them after you put them in the pot to steam to add to their agony. So, it has some nostalgic appeal, but the idea of putting it on French fries doesn't appeal to me. Were they good fries at least, made from hand cut potatoes, or just the usual frozen ones?
T Clark March 23, 2023 at 01:49 #791013
Quoting BC
I do remember the thrill of getting my hands on a Macintosh in 1987, or thereabouts


I remember when my neighbor, who was something of a geek, got a computer sometime in the early or mid 80s. We all gathered around while he showed us how Visicalc worked. Visicalc was a spreadsheet program - a predecessor to Excel. He had a big spreadsheet and when he changed a number in one of the cells, it changed the total at the bottom. We were amazed and we were right to be amazed because it was amazing and it's still amazing.
T Clark March 23, 2023 at 01:57 #791018
Quoting Noble Dust
No, but I did find this unopened tuna can from the 60's. I've heard fish ages like fine wine.


Not as impressive as this:

Quoting Smithsonian Magazine - 2014
200-Year-Old Alcohol Found in Shipwreck Is Still Drinkable


My brother was working in France in the late 80s and we went to visit him in 1989. While there, we bought mayonnaise in a squeeze tube. We brought it back as a souvenir and it sat in our pantry for 20 years. I looked at it and it expired in 1999. I remember the French used radiation on a lot of their foods to extend how long they could be eaten. Anyway, I tossed it in case someone decided to eat it by mistake. I should have saved it and sold it.
Noble Dust March 23, 2023 at 06:46 #791043
Quoting T Clark
Were they good fries at least, made from hand cut potatoes, or just the usual frozen ones?


They are really good fries; the spot is a boutique fishery. That said, I think they gave me heart burn. At what age does heart burn become a thing? Am I officially old?

Quoting Smithsonian Magazine - 2014
200-Year-Old Alcohol Found in Shipwreck Is Still Drinkable


I believe it. Lest I remind you I work in the wine industry, as wine gets older it tends to just "fall off", meaning it loses acidity, tannin, structure, etc. But it's still "safe" to drink. If anything, it just turns into vinegar, which is healthy.
T Clark March 23, 2023 at 14:30 #791116
Quoting Noble Dust
boutique fishery.


A little advice - if you don't want people to think you are a pretentious, effete gore-met, never us the word "boutique" in a restaurant description. Also - don't call cooks "food curators."
Noble Dust March 23, 2023 at 19:33 #791187
Reply to T Clark

Where do you recommend "boutique" be used?
BC March 23, 2023 at 20:12 #791197
Quoting Noble Dust
At what age does heart burn become a thing?


At whatever age you eat greasy slop that backs up into the esophagus.
Jamal March 23, 2023 at 20:22 #791205
Noble Dust March 23, 2023 at 20:38 #791208
Thanks for the information, everyone.
Baden March 23, 2023 at 21:10 #791218
Don't know what happened there but it looks like ND is a bit posh. Probably bathes in asses' milk or some such over there in his Manhattan condominium.
frank March 23, 2023 at 21:53 #791238
User image

The Oscar Meyer Weinermobile
Baden March 23, 2023 at 22:03 #791243
Reply to frank

ND drives a Buggatty.
0 thru 9 March 23, 2023 at 22:10 #791246
Why isn’t DeChump incarcerated yet? Are they engraving an invitation for him? How long does it take to hose urine out of a jail cell to get it ready for him? C’mon people! Chop chop! :razz:
frank March 23, 2023 at 22:11 #791247
Reply to Baden
Like this?

User image
frank March 23, 2023 at 22:12 #791248
Quoting 0 thru 9
Why isn’t DeChump incarcerated yet? Are they engraving an invitation for him? How long does it take to hose urine out of a jail cell to get it ready for him? C’mon people! Chop chop! :razz:


I'd already forgotten about it. Nothing sticks to him.
Baden March 23, 2023 at 22:13 #791249
Reply to frank

Yep, I can see him driving down Manhattan Boulevard in that on his way to his local asses' milk boutique.
frank March 23, 2023 at 22:15 #791250
Quoting Baden
Yep, I can see him driving down Manhattan Boulevard in that on his way to his local asses' milk boutique.


I don't think there's a Manhattan Blvd, but if there was, I'm sure ND would drive down it in a Bugatti with a top hat on.
Baden March 23, 2023 at 22:17 #791253
Reply to frank

Sorry, I must have been thinking of Strawberry Boulevard.
frank March 23, 2023 at 22:34 #791262
Reply to Baden
Where's that? Near Strawberry Fields?
Noble Dust March 23, 2023 at 22:34 #791263
My chauffeur drives me in a horse-drawn carriage, thank you very much.
Baden March 23, 2023 at 22:37 #791264
Reply to frank

Cuts straight through 'em. There were protests. But to no avail. :sad:
Baden March 23, 2023 at 22:38 #791265
Quoting Noble Dust
My chauffeur drives me in a horse-drawn carriage, thank you very much


You're welcome, sir.
T Clark March 23, 2023 at 23:30 #791274
Quoting Noble Dust
Where do you recommend "boutique" be used?


First off, it's a fucking noun, not an adjective. It comes from the French word for fart and should be pronounced "butt reek." E.g. that's the worst boutique I've ever smelled.
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 01:42 #791305
T Clark March 24, 2023 at 01:53 #791309
Quoting Noble Dust
:cry:


You're welcome.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 14:44 #791413
Breakfast: Chicken leg and coffee, the classic
Lunch: Chicken soup, homemade
Dinner: Going to the local Indian restaurant, where I may have a chicken curry and two beers
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 15:55 #791429
On Wednesday I was eating a chicken biscuit in the gas station parking lot when a tattoed faced guy tried to open my passenger door to steal my shit because he didn't see me in the car. He ran when I yelled at him.

Chick-fil-a biscuits are delicious under any set of circumstances.
T Clark March 24, 2023 at 16:23 #791443
I asked ChatGPT to write a poem similar in style and tone to this one:

[i]@Hanover is a friend of mine
He resembles Frankenstein
When he does an Irish jig
He resembles Porky Pig[/i]

This is what it wrote:

[i]The old oak tree is my comrade,
Tall and sturdy, it never fades,
In a storm, it stands its ground,
Unyielding to the winds' loud sound.

Its branches sway like dancers in the breeze,
Leaves rustling like a symphony of ease,
And when the birds come to rest,
It's as if they're part of its nest.

But in the winter, it's a different sight,
Stripped of its leaves, it looks contrite,
Yet it still stands, proud and true,
A symbol of strength, through and through.

And when the snow falls and covers its limbs,
It looks like a giant, white, frosted hymn,
A sight to behold, a work of art,
An enduring friend, close to my heart.[/i]

Perfect!
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 17:39 #791473
Quoting T Clark
Hanover is a friend of mine
He resembles Frankenstein
When he does an Irish jig
He resembles Porky Pig


This poem is a poor attempt at AI because anything could be substituted in for "Hanover." It's generic and doesn't even try to rhyme "Hanover." If it were any good, it would also play with the term "Hanover" regarding what it means and how it's used and work that in. As is, it's fucking horrible and it literally burns my eyes to looks at it. And by "literally," I mean figuratively. That's how mad I am.

The poem you wrote is better, and by "you wrote" I mean you didn't write. I would have more to say about it, but I'm still mad as shit from the other AI poem.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 17:41 #791476
I went to lunch and it logged me out of Outlook so I have to reload it. God damn it to hell. Yahweh, why have you foresaken me?!
Ø implies everything March 24, 2023 at 17:41 #791477
Missed a chance to write forsaketh.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 17:42 #791478
Everyone,

My last two posts have been really angry, and none of you have done anything to have deserved that. I apologize to you all.

I'm sorry you had to see that side of me. I will do better.

Hanover
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 17:43 #791480
Quoting Ø implies everything
Missed a chance to write forsaketh.


You're fucking right! God damn me! Can I get anything fucking right today???

Wow! Sorry. I'm not me today. I apologize once again.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 17:52 #791484
Reply to Hanover Good to see you lose your cool for once. God damn you Hanover.

I had my chicken curry and it was good.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 17:54 #791486
Quoting Hanover
chicken biscuit


The fuck?
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 17:57 #791488
Reply to Jamal https://d1fd34dzzl09j.cloudfront.net/Images/CFACOM/Stories%20Images/2017/02/SpicyBiscuit/BiscuitSpicyChicken.jpg?h=1060&w=1460&la=en
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 17:58 #791489
Reply to Hanover Ah, a savoury scone, looks like. I’d munch that with avidity.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 18:23 #791493
Quoting Jamal
Ah, a savoury scone, looks like. I’d munch that with avidity.


You say that, but I wonder how much avidity you'd have if a tattooed man jumped into the car seat next to you during your munching. My guess is that you'd be all discombobulated and befuddled, leaving you helpless holding that savory biscuit of yours.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 18:25 #791494
Oh, Hanover, what a sight to see,
So filthy, smelly, and quite nasty,
Your odor follows you around,
A stench that leaves us all astound.

Your hair is matted, your clothes are torn,
And we can't help but feel forlorn,
To think of what could have been,
If only you were clean again.

But alas, you revel in your stink,
And your hygiene, it seems, you often shrink,
From the simple task of soap and water,
That could make you more than just fodder.

Your breath could knock a horse off track,
And your nails, they're a grimey plaque,
A sight so foul, we can't help but shudder,
To be near you is a real bother.

Oh, Hanover, we wish you'd try,
To clean yourself and give it a try,
For we all know you could be more,
Than just the smelly guy next door.

---

OK, so maybe it'll be a long time after all before this AI mfer gets art right.


Baden March 24, 2023 at 18:26 #791495
Points for accuracy tho'.
Ø implies everything March 24, 2023 at 18:56 #791502
I am alarmed at the suspiciously high prevalence of ornithic profile pictures.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:00 #791503
Reply to Ø implies everything

There's really no need to be concerned.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 19:00 #791504
[qQuoting Baden
There's really no need to be concerned.


I disagree.
Ø implies everything March 24, 2023 at 19:02 #791505
@Baden You say that, but then you go from a profile picture of one bird to one with double the amount.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:03 #791506
Ø implies everything March 24, 2023 at 19:05 #791507
I would say something smells fishy, but something ate all the fish.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:06 #791508
Our heroine was trying to shine the light of reason and for her troubles got necked by a mad pigeon. Such is the fate of the philosopher.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:07 #791509
Quoting Hanover
[q


Probably the most sensible thing you've said all day. Now go take a bath.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:08 #791511
Quoting Hanover
I disagree


As the only member with a caprine profile picture, you would say that.

Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:12 #791512
Reply to Jamal

Not even @Banno stoops so low these days.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:13 #791513
Reply to Baden Someone has to carry the flaming goat I guess.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:15 #791514
Reply to Jamal

Is this a segue into more food talk? :yum:
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 19:16 #791515
Quoting Jamal
Someone has to carry the flaming goat I guess


User image

Someone order a flaming goat?
Ø implies everything March 24, 2023 at 19:17 #791516
Saw this site supports MathJax. [math] \sum \omega \epsilon \epsilon \top [/math]
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:19 #791518
Reply to Baden Ask @Noble Dust. He gets all of his flame-grilled goat from a boutique goat emporium in the Lower Upper Village.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:21 #791519
Reply to Hanover Now use that as your profile pic.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:21 #791520
Reply to Jamal

Reckon so. Probably washes it down with a nice cool glass of Hanoverian asses' milk too.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:23 #791521
Reply to Baden One of the finest ass milks.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 19:24 #791522
Quoting Ø implies everything
Saw this site supports MathJax. ?????


:cool:
Baden March 24, 2023 at 19:27 #791523
Quoting Jamal
One of the finest ass milks.


User image
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 20:06 #791538
You guys joke, but milking an ass is no laughing matter.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 20:09 #791539
I will say that typically when I milk my ass, I get chocolate milk. Not sure why. It's always been that way. It also smells like shit, but it's better than nothing.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:10 #791540
This is a new low.
Hanover March 24, 2023 at 20:11 #791541
Quoting Jamal
This is a new low.


I was talking about milking an ass, not an arse. You're disgusting.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 20:24 #791543
Quoting Jamal
This is a new low.


:cry:
Baden March 24, 2023 at 20:28 #791545
Chat GPT to the rescue?

">Make a joke about asses' milk.

>Why did the donkey drink milk before going on a date?

Because he wanted to be extra "ass"tractive! And of course, he preferred his milk straight from the source - from a fellow donkey. No need to milk any other animals!"

:chin:
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:33 #791548
Reply to Baden It’s as if it immediately realized the lameness of “asstractive” and tried to save the joke with an extra punchline—which I didn’t get.
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 20:34 #791549
To prove I'm a man of the people, I forsook my classic goat leg and coffee breakfast this morning in favor of a baconeggncheese with ketchup. And an OJ.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 20:39 #791551
Reply to Jamal

Yes, second part kinda sounds like a five year old who doesn't quite get humor yet.

Reply to Noble Dust

User image



Banno March 24, 2023 at 20:46 #791556
Reply to Jamal I've long pointed out the import of clear language. An ass is not an arse.
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 20:47 #791557
Me: To prove I'm a man of the people, I forsook my classic goat leg and coffee breakfast this morning in favor of a baconeggncheese with ketchup. And an OJ.

Chat GPT: Wow, it sounds like you really embraced the taste of the common people! Your bacon, egg, and cheese with ketchup is a meal fit for a king, or a "man of the people" as you prefer to put it. And who needs coffee when you can have a refreshing glass of orange juice to wash it down? You are truly a man of the people, willing to try new things and enjoy the simple pleasures in life. Keep up the good work!

I think I like this guy.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:49 #791559
Reply to Banno Mostly I’ve taken to using “ass” even when I’m not talking about equids. I only bring out my “arse” on special occasions.
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:53 #791561
Reply to Noble Dust Its unironic sycophancy is nauseating.
Banno March 24, 2023 at 20:55 #791562
Reply to Jamal So you've joined those who know not their arse from their ass. Not a proud moment at the House of Jamal. So did The Lord ride into Jerusalem on an ass or on an arse? It makes a difference.

Or was it a goat...?
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:57 #791565
Reply to Banno It could have been a magic carpet for all I care.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 20:58 #791567
Quoting Jamal
Its unironic sycophancy is nauseating.


Fixed:

">Please respond critically to the following using the word "ass" at least once: To prove I'm a man of the people, I forsook my classic goat leg and coffee breakfast this morning in favor of a baconeggncheese with ketchup. And an OJ.

>While the decision to forgo your usual goat leg and coffee breakfast and opt for a baconeggncheese with ketchup and OJ may seem like an attempt to demonstrate your solidarity with the common folk, it comes across as a half-assed effort to win public approval. True empathy and understanding of the people involve more than just superficially changing your dietary habits. Genuine connections with the public require engaging with them, addressing their concerns, and working to improve their lives. In the end, this one-off meal choice is unlikely to prove anything significant about your character or intentions."
Jamal March 24, 2023 at 20:59 #791569
Reply to Baden :lol: :clap:
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 21:08 #791574
My approval rating seems to be falling, but I can't figure out why.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 21:13 #791576
Reply to Noble Dust

Try Pringles. :wink:
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 21:17 #791578
As mayor of the shoutbox, and as a gesture of my goodwill, I would like to send everyone a Vienna Beef Natural Casing Hot Dog Party Pack, free of charge. Simply PM me your venmo to cover shipping costs, and the party pack is yours. Thank you.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 22:07 #791592
Noble Dust March 24, 2023 at 23:19 #791630
Reply to Baden

A thoughtful and prudent man after my own heart.
Baden March 24, 2023 at 23:20 #791632
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 00:04 #791645
All this talk of asses and no one has mentioned the cocks bopping around the farm.

Cocks, miking, asses... . No joke I can see there.
Sir2u March 25, 2023 at 04:13 #791679
Reply to Baden Probably scared of having the bloody thing nicked like all of them others in the news lately. Maybe not as dumb as he looks.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 11:35 #791739
My local newspaper still runs the comic strip Judge Parker. Do you think there's a single person who follows that?
Jamal March 25, 2023 at 11:42 #791741
Reply to Hanover After my second visit to the dentist the other day I hopped on the metro and found myself a good seat with plenty of space to manspread. Then this bloke got on and sat next to me. While everyone else was on a phone, he was reading a newspaper. Mentally I went “huh, a newspaper”.

As you can see, I’ve fixated on the newspaper and haven’t addressed Judge Parker, who I don’t know.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 12:01 #791744
Quoting Jamal
As you can see, I’ve fixated on the newspaper and haven’t addressed Judge Parker, who I don’t know.


In this chess match between the two of us, you must realize I fully expected the reference to the newspaper to strike you as quaint and the reference to Judge Parker to elude you.

I also know you have spent the better part of the past half hour trying to educate yourself on the good judge.

You likely have questions as to what this strip is, why it's referred to as comical, overflowing with the curiosity of a young boy enthralled by Americana from a land far away.

Very well, on with your questions.
Jamal March 25, 2023 at 12:22 #791745
Reply to Hanover It was entirely predictable that you jumped to the conclusion that I was not aware that you expected me to pick up on the newspaper reference, and the fact that I predicted it counts as a major advance for my side. I’ll put Judge Parker and the entire US on the back burner for now.
Baden March 25, 2023 at 13:20 #791762
Is that Judge Judy's dad?
0 thru 9 March 25, 2023 at 14:04 #791765
Quoting Hanover
My local newspaper still runs the comic strip Judge Parker. Do you think there's a single person who follows that?

Other than women over eighty? A few maybe. But... alll JP needs is for just one popular social influenza media person to talk about it, and soon JP and the other soap opera comics like Mary Worth will be hot and sexy again :love: (or perhaps for the first time lol).
T Clark March 25, 2023 at 15:07 #791781
Quoting Hanover
Judge Parker.


Judge Parker was a racist judge from Georgia (USA) who sentenced innocent black people to long jail terms and laughed as their families begged and cried. He never wore pants under his robe. He smoked a ceegar and carried a gun at all times. He was usually drunk on the bench. Needless to say, his speech was laced with profanities and derogatory racial terms. He often let attractive women off with no jail time if they would meet him for a "conference" in his chambers.
Noble Dust March 25, 2023 at 16:16 #791794
Reply to Jamal

Funny, I walked out my front door this morning to find the New York Times on the doorstep to the building, addressed to my neighbor. I had the same thought, no joke.
Jamal March 25, 2023 at 16:27 #791796
Reply to Noble Dust Spookiness abounds.
Ø implies everything March 25, 2023 at 16:36 #791799
Synchronicity? *rips a bong*
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 16:44 #791801
Quoting Jamal
was entirely predictable that you jumped to the conclusion that I was not aware that you expected me to pick up on the newspaper reference, and the fact that I predicted it counts as a major advance for my side. I’ll put Judge Parker and the entire US on the back burner for now.


Except that I predicted this response and your next response that you predicted my response.

I have this so figured in advance that I figured I'd right now be figuring this in advance, allowing me to see myself seeing two days from now when I look into tomorrow, therefore jumping ahead more days seeing myself seeing tomorrow's tomorrow.

Your head just exploded. No one can follow what I just said but me. That's how smart I am. It's a suffering only Einstein and I know about.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 16:47 #791802
Quoting T Clark
Judge Parker was a racist judge from Georgia (USA) who sentenced innocent black people to long jail terms and laughed as their families begged and cried. He never wore pants under his robe. He smoked a ceegar and carried a gun at all times. He was usually drunk on the bench. Needless to say, his speech was laced with profanities and derogatory racial terms. He often let attractive women off with no jail time if they would meet him for a "conference" in his chambers.


No, Judge Parker's first name was Peter. Yeah, that Peter Parker. I bet you feel like a total dick having said all that about Spider-Man. Thing is, he knew you'd say it because he, like me, has an amazing spidey sense.

It's a suffering only Einstein and I know about. You can read above for a full background on that
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 16:50 #791804
Quoting Ø implies everything
Synchronicity? *rips a bong*


Reminds of a song.

Ø implies everything March 25, 2023 at 16:58 #791806
Reply to Hanover Such a dope set. Really atmospheric.
Ø implies everything March 25, 2023 at 17:02 #791807
I just had a thought. Has there ever been an event or category on this site in which people introduce their most holisitic, extensive theories, and then criticize and compare them?
javi2541997 March 25, 2023 at 17:02 #791808
A new law has been approved that removes the use of fax from legal papers and notifications. To be honest, I will miss the fax in the office, and I consider it a good device for "time stamping" evidence.

I don't know why some consider fax "unfashionable" or "old" when Japan (a big developed country in electronics and robotics) still uses it...
Do you use fax in your offices or homes?
Jamal March 25, 2023 at 17:08 #791811
Reply to Hanover Quoting javi2541997
Do you use fax in your offices or homes?


Yes, I keep it next to my washing machine, pictured below:

User image
javi2541997 March 25, 2023 at 17:18 #791813
Reply to Jamal When I saw the notification, I thought for a second that you had actually shared a beautiful picture of a fax with me.  :lol:
Jamal March 25, 2023 at 17:23 #791814
Reply to javi2541997 Whatever turns you on Javi :grin:
frank March 25, 2023 at 17:40 #791815
Quoting Ø implies everything
just had a thought. Has there ever been an event or category on this site in which people introduce their most holisitic, extensive theories, and then criticize and compare them?


Maybe you could present one tiny morsel so we can bring the whole weight of human knowledge since the stone age down on that sucker. Like finding the universe in a grain of sand.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 17:43 #791818
Quoting Ø implies everything
Such a dope set. Really atmospheric


What I like about the Police is that I can listen to cool music and think about law enforcement at the same time. It's an eclectic social melding of yin yang forces coming into a harmonious pummeling explosive meteorite I always say.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 17:45 #791819
Quoting Ø implies everything
Has there ever been an event or category on this site in which people introduce their most holisitic, extensive theories, and then criticize and compare them?


That happened once, but I exited without saving and lost it and couldn't remember what I said. I think it was pretty solid from what parts I do remember.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 17:46 #791821
Quoting frank
Like finding the universe in a grain of sand.


Very Horton hears a who like.
frank March 25, 2023 at 17:49 #791823
Quoting Hanover
Very Horton hears a who like.


That story is horrifying.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 17:51 #791827
Quoting frank
That story is horrifying.


I liked it. Horton was a hero. His big ears saved a world. My ears haven't done shit.
frank March 25, 2023 at 17:53 #791830
Quoting Hanover
I liked it. Horton was a hero. His big ears saved a world. My ears haven't done shit


But nobody believes him. It's so stressful.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 17:59 #791831
Currently making boeuf bourguignon. It reminds me of regular old beef stew, but the wine and cognac are unusual ingredients. Maybe it'll be particularly delicious.

I don't feel like chewing today because I'm just a little tired, so maybe my wife will chew and then spit it in my mouth like a mama bird.

I'm nervous about asking her to do that because, well, it'll sound as fucked up to her as it does to you guys.

T Clark March 25, 2023 at 18:47 #791836
Quoting javi2541997
I don't know why some consider fax "unfashionable" or "old" when Japan (a big developed country in electronics and robotics) still uses it...
Do you use fax in your offices or homes?


Faxes were a big deal back in the 90s, but few people use them anymore. Their big advantage is that they don't leave an electronic trail that can be used in court or stolen by hackers.
T Clark March 25, 2023 at 18:52 #791837
Quoting Hanover
Horton was a hero.


I've been told he meant what he said and he said what he meant. It's my understanding he was faithful 100 percent.
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 19:04 #791840
Quoting T Clark
Faxes were a big deal back in the 90s, but few people uses them anymore. Their big advantage is that they don't leave an electronic trail that can be used in court or stolen by hackers.


When the image is digitized for transmission it can be stored and stolen. Other than TPF, nowhere is safe, not even on your own toilet.


Ø implies everything March 25, 2023 at 19:16 #791843
Quoting Hanover
That happened once, but I exited without saving and lost it and couldn't remember what I said. I think it was pretty solid from what parts I do remember.


Ah, that's happened to me too. I hate when I lose my train of
T Clark March 25, 2023 at 19:25 #791844
Quoting Ø implies everything
Ah, that's happened to me too. I hate when I lose my train of


@Jamal, @Noble Dust, and I have determined that the proper way of writing this is "I hate when I lose my train of..."
Noble Dust March 25, 2023 at 19:55 #791853
Reply to T Clark

It does seem to represent a sort of trailing off, if you know what I mean…
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 20:18 #791856
The chocolate factory explodes soon after @Baden changes his avatar from Willy Wonka.

Koinkidink?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/six-injured-blast-pennsylvania-chocolate-013258990.html
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 20:43 #791863
My phone is at 5% and it's conserving energy by reducing the light. I resent the pessimism as if it thinks I have no way to remedy the situation. And even if I didn't, how does it know I don't want to party to the very end.

Despite all we:ve done together, it doesn't know shit about me.

It's like my first wife.

Sorry, that sounded crazy bitter. I take that back.
javi2541997 March 25, 2023 at 21:15 #791871
Quoting T Clark
Their big advantage is that they don't leave an electronic trail that can be used in court or stolen by hackers.


Yeah, I forgot to mention that key characteristic. It cannot be hacked by third parties. Well, I guess I am having a weird nostalgia or melancholia about fax and its sophisticated mechanism.
BC March 25, 2023 at 22:20 #791886
Reply to T Clark Reply to javi2541997 Faxes are still used in offices where a 'hard copy' is preferable to a text statement--like lawyers' and quite often doctors offices.

Interesting: The Xerox Corporation invented the modern fax in 1964, but Alexander Baine invented a printing telegraph in 1843 (on the heels of the first telegraphs) which worked in a similar way. A fax can be quicker than scanning a document and then screwing around with attaching it to email. The more steps, the more time wasting is possible. (I've been a life long fan of time wasting but not everyone is.)
Hanover March 25, 2023 at 23:26 #791905
Quoting BC
Faxes are still used in offices where a 'hard copy' is preferable to a text statement--like lawyers' and quite often doctors offices.


I heard the word lawyer, so I perked up.

Faxes are still sent, but there's no fax machine. The document is scanned and sent electronically to a fax number that is also no longer a fax, but is an email.

A pdf is obviously not printed and scanned and then faxed, but is directly "faxed," which is no different than an email attachment.

So, whether someone still has a stand alone fax machine, I don't know. We don't. In fact, the printer scans first and can print, fax, email, or save the document directly to the data storage, which is in the cloud and downloadable anywhere.

So, when you say the fax is secure with no electronic trail, I think that ended some time ago. Once the document is digitized, it makes sense to store it electronically and never return it to paper.

Legal documents are filed in the court entirely electronically, never sent in paper form, as are all legal notices electronic. Wet signatures are not required and are no more valid the e-signatures. If you show up at the courthouse with a paper copy, they'll send you to the kiosk so you can file it electronically.

We have no where to store paper files, so if someone sends snail mail, it's scanned and destroyed.

All of this is to say, if there is no electronic trail, then I never got your document. And if you leave me a voice mail, I'll check my email where it was saved as both audio and voice recognition text.

I won't return your email though. I get too many and can't keep up, but it'll be neatly documented and stored and you can show me how many I've ignored, but I'll ignore that too.
T Clark March 26, 2023 at 00:13 #791929
Quoting Hanover
I get too many and can't keep up,


That's because you spend all your time responding to us here.
BC March 26, 2023 at 00:33 #791938
Reply to Hanover I haven't had a printer for quite a long time -- opted out of the ink racket. Excellent quality fast printing machines result in deforestation.
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 00:33 #791939
Quoting T Clark
That's because you spend all your time responding to us here.


Priorities.
javi2541997 March 26, 2023 at 04:17 #791977
Quoting BC
A fax can be quicker than scanning a document and then screwing around with attaching it to email. The more steps, the more time wasting is possible. (I've been a life long fan of time wasting but not everyone is.)


Well said, BC! :up:
Ø implies everything March 26, 2023 at 05:12 #791983
Quoting Hanover
My phone is at 5% and it's conserving energy by reducing the light. I resent the pessimism as if it thinks I have no way to remedy the situation.


I have felt this way many times too, damning myphone for its stupidity, insolence and nihilism. Then I remember how many times I have let my phone die even with several notifications of its imminent death, and I realize, I am the fool, the bastard and the nihilist, and my phone is merely my neglected prisoner, trying to conserve his light in this dark abyss of a life I keep him in.
Metaphysician Undercover March 26, 2023 at 11:12 #792044
Reply to T Clark
Quoting Noble Dust
It does seem to represent a sort of trailing off, if you know what I mean…


Ever fall asleep in the middle of a sentence? If so, you know how to say the strangest, most random things. The speaking does not end at the point of falling asleep, but continues...
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 11:42 #792049
Quoting Metaphysician Undercover
Ever fall asleep in the middle of a sentence? If so, you know how to say the strangest, most random things. The speaking does not end at the point of falling asleep, but continues...


Ever fall asleep in the middle of doing something and then you wake up in another city with a job and family you never knew you had, but you roll with it because you don't want to go back to that hospital?

Neither have I, but I was just wanting to know for a friend.
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 11:50 #792051
Quoting Ø implies everything
have felt this way many times too, damning myphone for its stupidity, insolence and nihilism. Then I remember how many times I have let my phone die even with several notifications of its imminent death, and I realize, I am the fool, the bastard and the nihilist, and my phone is merely my neglected prisoner, trying to conserve his light in this dark abyss of a life I keep him in.


I feel like a real a real piece of shit now. Had I just an ounce of your cell phone empathy, I too could have seen some amount of your emotional growth. Instead I'm stuck in this vicious cycle of self defeating blame that I can't exit.
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 12:07 #792056
Quoting BC
I haven't had a printer for quite a long time -- opted out of the ink racket. Excellent quality fast printing machines result in deforestation.


My elementary school.had a ditto machine that used these carbon papers you drew on that made mirror images that you'd give to Mrs. Karp to "run off." With the demise of Mrs. Karp came the digital age, which is now replaced by the paperless age where we now just have to remember what we did. Fortunately or not, we haven't done anything worth noting, so nothing is lost even if we forgot.

Jamal March 26, 2023 at 14:01 #792079
Quoting Hanover
Ever fall asleep in the middle of doing something and then you wake up in another city with a job and family you never knew you had, but you roll with it because you don't want to go back to that hospital?


Story of my life!
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 15:58 #792117
Quoting Jamal
Story of my life!


It raises an interesting hypothetical I think we've all considered at some time. It's that common question of "suppose I accidentally got in the wrong car and followed the GPS that was set to 'home,' and when I arrived at the mistaken address, would I just live there depending upon what was for dinner"?

And "what was for dinner" here is used as literally or figuratively as you'd like.

I'd assume my doppelganger would be at my home doing the same thing, so he wouldn't be getting all up in my business causing drama, so we don't need to pay no nevermind to that.

Anywho, we've all been there, right?
Jamal March 26, 2023 at 16:10 #792119
Quoting Hanover
he wouldn't be getting all up in my business causing drama, so we don't need to pay no nevermind to that


I can’t tell if you talk like this in real life or if you put it on for a humorously incongruous effect. I suspect the latter. Either way, it’s good, I like it. Talk and write however the hell you want.

In other news, I tried to get a chat AI to agree with me that Indian food is more flavourful than Scottish food, and no matter how good my arguments were (and they were bloody good) it refused to agree with me, and just repeatedly lectured me not to make “sweeping generalizations” about other cultures. It’s political correctness gone mad!
T Clark March 26, 2023 at 16:26 #792125
Quoting Jamal
It’s political correctness gone mad!


Yes. Our machine overlords will be woke.
T Clark March 26, 2023 at 17:47 #792147
I think this quote fully demonstrates that our machine overlords are already capable of doing the "work" that philosophers currently do.

Chat GPT:As an AI language model, my intention is to provide factual information and helpful responses to your queries. I apologize if my previous responses did not meet your expectations.

I understand that the traditional answer to the tongue twister is "A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood," and I acknowledge that it is a commonly known answer to the question. However, it's important to note that this answer is still a playful phrase and not meant to be taken as a literal statement about the abilities of woodchucks.


I think I'll change my site username to T Clark GPT. Maybe then they'll keep me around as a pet while they chop you up to make Soylent Green to feed the whales and elephants.
Noble Dust March 26, 2023 at 18:18 #792163
Reply to Hanover

As the authority on doppelgängers at TPF, I can assure you that as long as you don't encounter your own doppelgänger, you're in the clear. In terms of what's for "dinner", two issues that could give you away are the voraciousness of your appetite at the dinner table, and the same in the bedroom. These are the main crux points of the classic doppelgänger switcheroo.
BC March 26, 2023 at 19:55 #792185
Reply to Hanover The fragrance of fresh dittos!

You might also be familiar with the "mimeograph" -- another tech now 99% gone. Gestetner Co. made a more complicated duplicator using a silk screen. The blank was a waxed silk 8.5x14 unit. It could be drawn on, but more typically, was used for typed originals. Correcting errors was tricky. When copies were needed, the sheet was placed on the machine's wet ink roll and clamped. Construction-grade paper was used, rather than smooth white paper, so the ink would't smear.

The original could make many copies and was stored in a construction paper envelope.

Somebody, somewhere, is probably still using a Gestetner a ditto.

Tom Storm March 26, 2023 at 21:52 #792236
Reply to BC I remember the Fordigraph machine (before photocopying technology) - you wrote on a page and purple ink via a wax role would appear on the churned out copies which were cranked from a roll of paper by hand. The seductive smell of alcohol accompanied this process.
Hanover March 26, 2023 at 22:08 #792245
Quoting Jamal
I can’t tell if you talk like this in real life or if you put it on for a humorously incongruous effect. I suspect the latter. Either way, it’s good, I like it. Talk and write however the hell you want.


Nah, jus me funnin.

I like the way "up" is used where it indicates that something is at an extreme and intimate level. Like if I let you up in my house and you stole something, that'd be a particularly serious violation because you were trusted. To go up in my house without permission, the same because you went beyond your proper boundary.

In other news, the leftover cognac from the beef Bourguignon I made makes a refreshing drink mixed with ginger ale.


Baden March 26, 2023 at 22:15 #792252
Quoting Jamal
In other news, I tried to get a chat AI to agree with me that Indian food is more flavourful than Scottish food, and no matter how good my arguments were (and they were bloody good) it refused to agree with me, and just repeatedly lectured me not to make “sweeping generalizations” about other cultures. It’s political correctness gone mad!


Ah, I was just commenting on this in the GPT thread. Very irritating.
Baden March 26, 2023 at 22:17 #792253
Quoting Hanover
Despite all we:ve done together, it doesn't know shit about me.

It's like my first wife.


I dig. She still doesn't know shit about me either.
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 01:40 #792314
Quoting Baden
i dig. She still doesn't know shit about me either.


I like the beatnik vibe daddy-o, so I'll let your bangin my ex thing slide.
Noble Dust March 27, 2023 at 01:56 #792317
Quoting Baden
I dig.


Reply to Hanover

I was thinkin' more Earth Wind & Fire, oww.

[probably requires a VPN in Russia]
Jamal March 27, 2023 at 02:16 #792321
Quoting Noble Dust
probably requires a VPN in Russia


Earth, Wind & Fire's unique blend of funk, soul, and R&B has not been banned yet, but thank you for you concern.
L'éléphant March 27, 2023 at 02:22 #792323
The hen gets her chicks roosting in a tree.

Noble Dust March 27, 2023 at 02:55 #792327
Reply to Jamal

Just wanted to make sure everyone was hip to it, ya herd?
Noble Dust March 27, 2023 at 02:57 #792328
Quoting Jamal
Earth, Wind & Fire's unique blend of funk, soul, and R&B has not been banned yet


Btw, this phrasing gives away your origins, I have to admit. It reminds me of this sketch, although perhaps that's also banned by Putty.
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 03:08 #792333
Reply to L'éléphant That was called "Chicken on the tree." I'm more interested in the "on" and not "in" preposition misuse than the chickens. Maybe a non-native speaker, or maybe a typo.
Jamal March 27, 2023 at 03:14 #792337
Reply to Noble Dust I enjoyed the sketch, and my phrasing was in fact designed to make you think of it.
L'éléphant March 27, 2023 at 03:16 #792339
Reply to Hanover I actually copied his "on a tree" in keeping with the video owner. Not sure if it's preference. If chickens grow on trees, then they're on a tree. :cool:
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 03:22 #792340
The on confusion is common in Kenyan English, so maybe this was a Kenyan video. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/280308757_Misuse_of_prepositions_in_Kenyan_English_Further_evidence_of_the_difficulty_in_choosing_the_right_preposition

More study is needed of this. The landscape in the video was very Kenyaesque, but I've never been to Kenya, which reminds me of this gem from the 70s.


L'éléphant March 27, 2023 at 03:31 #792345
Reply to Hanover :sweat:
Whatever, Hanover.
javi2541997 March 27, 2023 at 04:52 #792362
Quoting Hanover
That was called "Chicken on the tree." I'm more interested in the "on" and not "in" preposition misuse than the chickens.


I tend to fail in the use of prepositions more than I wish to. For a non-native speaker, this is a difficult task. At least in my language, we only have one preposition: "En", but you have "in" and "on" and sometimes it is complex to choose them correctly.

If I translate the phrase (using "on") it says: la gallina está sobre el árbol. But if I translate it using "in" it makes more sense: la gallina está en el árbol. The latter fits what you mean but it is paradox because I used "in" and not "on"
Metaphysician Undercover March 27, 2023 at 11:14 #792451
Chicken, chicken, you can't roost to high for me.
Chicken, chicken, come on outta that tree...

- The words of a man who loves to eat chicken, Mississippi John Hurt.
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 12:40 #792469
Quoting javi2541997
If I translate the phrase (using "on") it says: la gallina está sobre el árbol. But if I translate it using "in" it makes more sense: la gallina está en el árbol. The latter fits what you mean but it is paradox because I used "in" and not "on"


1. Compare "the chicken is in the coop" versus "the chicken is on the coop."
These have very different meanings.
2. Compare "the chicken is in the tree" versus "the chicken is on the tree."
They do have different meanings, although the latter is confusing enough that it might be tagged by a native reader as coming from a non-native speaker, else you're forced to think of a chicken perched on the highest branch of some well defined tree structure.

Note though that "in" in example #1 means inside.
In example #2 it doesn't mean inside, but it means something along the lines of it being within the confines of the space used by the tree.
If it meant inside, the sentence would read "the chicken is inside the tree." That suggests the chicken is inside the trunk of the tree, not just within its branches.

There's no good way of knowing this other than just listening to it being spoken enough times that the usage becomes instintinctively clear or by listening to me drone on about chickens in trees because someone posted an "on" where an "in" was meant to be.
javi2541997 March 27, 2023 at 13:44 #792482
Reply to Hanover Quoting Hanover
Note though that "in" in example #1 means inside.
In example #2 it doesn't mean inside, but it means something along the lines of it being within the confines of the space used by the tree.


Thank you Hanover, I appreciate your teaching in this grammar topic.

Note that I am aware in the fact that those proposition usings have different meanings. Yet, my concern was the right choose depending on the example or context. The example shared by @L'éléphant is good but there are others that confuse me.
For example: Pongo el lápiz en la mesa: I put the pencil in the table. Or should I use"on"? Well, I have a more specific translation if we use the preposition on: pongo el lápiz sobre la mesa = I put the pencil on the table, etc…

What does confuse me then? Because I think in my native language while I use English. If you use the proposition"En" using Spanish we will understand you, it doesnt matter where location of the pencil or the chicken is. We will know that you are referring to the fact that the pencil is in the table (on the desk, in a drawer, pencil case, etc…)

Quoting Hanover
There's no good way of knowing this other than just listening to it being spoken enough times that the usage becomes instintinctively clear


You are right, it is an effective way to learning because English grammar can be tough sometimes.
Jamal March 27, 2023 at 15:18 #792505
I think we can all agree that if the chicken is in the coop then it's inside it, but if it's on the coop then it's on the roof.

But although when the chicken is in the car, it's inside it, when it's on the train it's also inside that :chin:
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 15:47 #792513
Quoting javi2541997
For example: Pongo el lápiz en la mesa: I put the pencil in the table. Or should I use"on"? Well, I have a more specific translation if we use the preposition on: pongo el lápiz sobre la mesa = I put the pencil on the table, etc…


If you put the pencil in the table, I'd think you meant you put it in the drawer.

Quoting Jamal
But although when the chicken is in the car, it's inside it, when it's on the train it's also inside that :chin:


I think we can make up ad hoc explanations for why we use prepositions like we do, but that wrongly assumes that grammar is logical and not just something we've made up through usage.

That is, you might say that in large modes of transportation where you can walk around you will use the word "on," but smaller ones where you must sit, you use "in." I get in the car, van, and taxi, but I get on the boat, train, and airplane, and we then try to figure out how why we're using the terms as we do. If I get on the truck. we assume I'm getting in (not on) the cargo area, but if I get in the truck, I'm in the passenger area.

I think it probably works generally as I've said as it applies to transportation forms, but I'm sure exceptions can be found. That's why kids who detect and use patterns often talk wrongly.
Hanover March 27, 2023 at 15:52 #792514
Quoting Jamal
But although when the chicken is in the car, it's inside it, when it's on the train it's also inside that


Why you totin around a chicken in the first place? That's what I'm needin to know.