creativesoul

The Bible is a collection of stories written by men long ago as a means for explaining things that were in need of explanation. Since then the stories...

So, either the good, just, and pious is completely arbitrary(at the whim of the gods) or there is a standard for being good, just, and pious that exis...

If what counts as good, just, and pious counts as such because it is loved by the gods, then all things loved by the gods are good, just, and pious me...

As before. Not interested. Congratulations. You win. Argument by defnitional fiat. Gods are good. Gods love good things. Gods love themselves. Perfect...

bolding above mine So, piety, goodness, and justice somehow exist, in their entirety, independently of the gods... :brow: ... which is the problem for...

The problem with your particular line of thinking is that it results in the following... The gods love themselves. The question/problem is - of course...

Not interested. Revisit the argument/objection given. It's still an insurmountable problem. Believe what you like.

Argument by defnitional fiat. Fantastic. Gods love themselves. You win.

That doesn't fix the problem... If those attributes are independent of the gods(as they must be if the gods love things as a result of those things po...

Clearly then... The attributes/properties of being just, good, and divine are independent of being loved by the gods, which is an insurmountable probl...

Poorly worded on my part. I meant only to note that many many politicians will degrade a position by calling it "philosophical' or 'in theory' or word...

Nor need we force anything on anyone... Governmental policy is all about what ought and/or ought not be done. Politics is all about government. All po...

Hence, the need for philosophical style approaches to the matter... That's another question altogether. However, if the issues of not caring about tho...

Seems to me that the social contract is something that arose on it's own, through reasoned reflection upon the causal role that individuals have in a ...

Nah. I asked, and later clarified what I was asking for. An argument meeting that criterion has not yet been put forth. So, I've not much else to say ...

Yeah, that seems to be the go to response just before being drectly faced with a problem in the reasoning. There's probably not much left to discuss o...

You mean this one? That argument is not an example which has "all moral norms and values are prescriptions and values of God" as a logical conclusion....

Thanks. I'm quite pleased with progress in real life. Looking forward to retirement. :wink:

I have not even touched upon euthyphro...

There are moral norms and values throughout the world that stand in direct contradiction to one another. If the one is true, then the other is false, ...

Okay. So either you will not or cannot support that claim by arguing for it as a conclusion. Neither is acceptable here. The claim assumes exactly wha...

Your failure to offer it voluntarily after our exchange here today is not a good sign.

One more try... Do you have an argument in which the above claim is a logical conclusion?

Irrelevant quibbling...

There are arguments against the God of Abraham that do not apply to other beliefs in/of God. Hence, my question informed me that those arguments may n...

Perhaps it best to start over... Do you have an argument for the claim quoted above?

Well, I'm asking what you are arguing here. Are all moral norms imperatives of Reason?

It's relevant in discussions involving the God of Abraham. Bartricks doesn't claim such a God, I suppose. So... no sense in pursuing those lines of th...

Are all moral norms and values imperatives of Reason?

It was not relevant to the current contention. Hence, I've not pursued it or revisited it except to answer your questions about it.

Are all moral norms and values imperatives of Reason?

That is the matter under contention.

One thing at a time. Yes, I would argue against 4 based upon empirical evidence to the contrary. However, that is not my interest here. My interest is...

That was an aside based upon Bartricks' participation here. I was curious to his belief in/of God. The substantive matter is the claim he made about a...

Sure to both of those claims, however Bartricks has claimed that God is necessary for moral behaviour(for being good). His line of reasoning is what's...

I'm not changing the goalposts. I'm correcting your misunderstanding of what I'm asking for. It's clear now, after a bit of confusion. No blame to be ...

There are two different claims you've made here that interest me. The matter of contention is exactly whether or not God is necessary for moral behavi...

Please reread my last post and directly address it.

Is God necessary for being good? That's the matter under contention. If being good requires following imperatives of Reason, then claiming that all im...

The claim that the imperatives of Reason have a single source is the matter of contention. You assume that that is true, which is what we do with prem...

4 assumes what is in contention. Do you agree?

I'm asking to see the argument you refer to. Set it out for me. If not, there's no way to understand what it is that you're talking about. Of course, ...

Are you denying the current consequences and vestiges leftover from the days of American slavery?

Could you set out this argument?

From what or whom have you acquired such belief(s)? I'm curious to the source from which you learned about an omni-mind(God)?

You believe in a God that is omnipotent, omnibenevolent, omniscient, and omnipresent... the creator of all things. Correct? :brow:

There are some similarities it seems. The differences are there as well. Absolute presuppositions, according to Collingwood, are not propositions thou...

I mentioned that in my very first post here to Bartricks. It ended with this... The problem of evil. The Euthyphro problem. Occam's razor. The holy tr...

p1. All moral principles guiding human behaviour are prescriptions of God p2. Some moral principles contradict others C1. God's prescriptions for beha...

:lol: