creativesoul

...just a note here Jeep. That is not actually true. The 'empty' space is filled by the electron cloud, according to quantum mechanics. The electron i...

I want to say here that I am not denying the definition of "belief" as a relation between an agent and a proposition, nor as an agent's attitude towar...

Gettier cases meet the standard formulation of JTB if B is a proposition. Gettier offers examples where S is justified in believing P, derives Q from ...

Ah, I see. It is clear to me now why my account could be troublesome for you. An agent in the sense I'm using the term here is simply a creature that ...

Seems an unnecessarily complex way to talk about linguistic frameworks(conceptual schemes, taxonomies, etc.). To say that a definition of a term is no...

You're a twit. If it were the case that all justified belief were true, then it would also be the case that the "T" in JTB would be superfluous. But i...

Cannot make sense of the above... I disagree. That would make a fantastic topic of debate. Care to join me in the appropriate section of this forum?

I think the problem is inherently within the notion of 'considered outside of a linguistic context'... In one sense, we cannot consider anything outsi...

Do you know what a non-linguistic agent is? Do you know what a mental correlation is?

I do not see a problem. There are non-linguistic agents. There are mental correlations drawn by such agents. Do you agree?

Ummm. I'm not sure I understand the problem. Are you having trouble with the idea that neither agents nor mental correlations are existentially depend...

Hey Janus... It's all about the method of approach. We can look at every example of belief and we will certainly find an agent that is drawing mental ...

Well, we can say whatever we want. We can call things whatever we choose. We can define our terms... I'm not sure what a 'semantic field' is supposed ...

It most certainly can. All it takes it knowing the difference between what it takes to be true, and what it takes to be well-grounded/justified.

Gettier explicitly lays out the formulation he sets out to place under suspicion, and another he aims to do so with. There are two formulations underw...

Evidently our notions of irrationality are irreconcilable as well. Conflating truth with justification is irrational. You're doing precisely that. Don...

So... it is exactly as suspected. You're arguing from definitional fiat. Semantic arguments are not interesting to me, especially when the definition ...

On your view, there are no false justified belief. I suspect that you're either conflating being true with being well-grounded or you're arguing from ...

Your criterion for what counts as being "justified" cannot admit that one who is fleeing for their own life were justified in doing so, because they w...

More to your words, but totally off the Gettier subject... It seems quite odd to me... this idea... that it is somehow unjustified to concluder from f...

Ever read Gettier's paper? Why look at the OP if it misrepresents Gettier's written words? Strong indeed.

Strong opening Meta.

It only follows that there are no pre-linguistic and/or non-linguistic belief unless propositions existed prior to language. That alone is more than e...

But then again, some folk hereabouts just think I'm an idiot so... :yum:

The issues with Gettier cases are many, and they all involve the classical notion of belief. Belief, to the JTB theorists, has propositional content. ...

All examples of "thought" and "belief" consist of an agent drawing mental correlations between things. All examples of meaning consist of an agent dra...

Meaning is prior to language. Meaningful mental ongoings are prior to language. True mental ongoings are prior to language. It makes perfect sense to ...

These things become significant to the agent via drawing correlations between those things and/or themselves.

I'm telling you that a properly nurtured and/or cultivated agent can and will draw mental correlations between things of our own choosing.

What type of experiment would it take to verify this account?

Jack's belief cannot contain the name we place upon toasters. Our report of Jack's belief can. Jack can be said to have belief about the toaster. Beli...

Whatever pre and/or non-linguistic mental correlations require in order for them to be realized(formed, actualized, enter into existence, emerge, etc....

Now what?

All meaningful sense consists entirely of drawing mental correlations between things. Your notion of "belief" is a meaningful sense. Your notion of "b...

Both thought and belief consist - in part at least - of mental ongoings... that's how meaning is attributed. We think about stuff and how it effects/a...

No. What I am at pains to point out is that neither you nor I make the rules governing all mental ongoings. Seeing how both thought and belief are - i...

Then any objection you levy against that claim that you just agreed to renders your position incoherent.

What does linguistic belief consist of? What does non linguistic belief consist of? Those two questions need to be correctly answered. If both kinds a...

We agree there. The nuance isn't simple. Basic understanding comes first. The nuance is had in the consequences of the basics.

Suit yourself. My position survives the same critique(s) I've levied towards others. What more could you ask for? :-| Stick to the rhetoric. Most peop...

If a non-linguistic agent draws a meaningful correlation(the attribution/recognition of causality) between some event or other and what happens afterw...

I know right? I'm waiting for something other than irrelevant or invalid shit to be said. Make an argument. State your objection. Make sure it's valid...

You're lost because you refuse to acknowledge the issues I've been pointing out in both, the sense of "belief" that you're arguing for, and the invali...

When a reader has the will and desire to understand an author, s/he must first grant the terms. If a reader refuses to do this, then s/he has no groun...

Jack can draw associations, connections, and correlations between that which becomes symbol/sign and that which becomes symbolized/significant. Jack c...

'Drawing' connections, associations, or correlations does not require language. It does produce meaning. Language is existentially dependent upon mean...

I think the underwriting issue here is which belief(s) are not existentially dependent upon language and which are. A non-linguistic agent cannot have...

So... Back to Jack. A different turn... "Jack" is Jack's name. "Jack" is not Banno's cat. Jack is Banno's cat. "Jack" is not Jack. "Jack's belief" is....

Protect/hide? Are you shitting me? :-} I've been not only called "arrogant" more times than I can count, but also "honest to a fault", "too generous",...

In the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary... And some talk of conviction being necessary for belief. I say that those who talk that way may...