Pinprick

Not necessarily. They can continue searching for a refutation for nihilism. How so? Can one not conclude that nihilism is true by using the same metho...

That’s a rather extreme example, don’t you think? Besides, I very seriously doubt that boredom is what would make a slave want to seek freedom. I’m no...

It seems presumptive to assert that only certain “philosophies” can be harmful. Regardless I disagree that nihilism, and all that it entails, is not a...

Sure, but can’t basically everything be harmful?

I tend to agree with you, and try to limit my exposure to it. I think there are a couple points to keep in mind. One is that on an evolutionary timefr...

How can any state of affairs be better if no one can experience them?

Seems to me that we seek both. As physical beings we seek physical necessities, but also “spirituality” as a hope for escape from our mere physical ex...

Well, as you’re well aware, it’s all absurd. I’m not really saying we should procreate in order to continue values. The idea is that it would be bette...

If pain is good, then removing pain would be bad, right? Isn’t what is actually good the fact that we seek to alleviate pain? That act is what keeps u...

I don’t think this suffices. It seems to me that in order for anything to be good or bad humans must exist in order to experience it. Otherwise why is...

Yeah, but why would you want to prevent suffering? Why do you value preventing suffering? Presumably it would be because you believe suffering has a n...

@"JacobPhilosophy"@"schopenhauer1"@"QuixoticAgnostic" The justification for antinatalism seems logical to me, but where I would like more input is why...

I think you mean to say negative utilitarianism, unless I’m mistaken. Either way, @"schopenhauer1" started a thread that probably covers what you’re a...

No, I did give qualities of art and philosophy, but I explained that those qualities couldn’t even be experienced individually, therefore they could n...

I’m not convinced that’s true. If a category, like art, is pleasurable it is most likely because of the various parts that “art” contains; style, them...

I disagree. Experiencing pleasure, or anything else is a direct consequence of what is going on in our brains, and whatever is going on in our brains ...

Right, but don’t you find that thought comforting? That others will still experience joy? To me all experience is meaningful, regardless of who’s doin...

I disagree with this. In a way, sure, the only experience you have necessarily requires consciousness, but is your experience the only one that is mea...

This is where the difference between causes/explanations and reasons is important. If you want to know the cause of happiness, I would again point to ...

Well, that’s one way to achieve what I’m getting at, but it isn’t required. Basically just imagine if you were not able to learn indirectly. Others co...

I guess to elaborate a bit, I would say that it’s the effect of the “something” that makes it pleasurable; the effect being that it stimulates your br...

No. I’m not a proponent of tabula rasa. I’m not denying instinct, or any other predisposition we are born with. Nor am I denying sensory experience or...

Well, I get what you’re saying, but perhaps not. If I try to imagine myself as being born and never gaining any advantage from memes, as I’ve loosely ...

Not to speak for Fool, but I would conclude that there simply is no essence of pleasure. IOW’s it can’t be reduced at all. It is what it is.

Or because we are desperately trying to justify our choices, feelings, etc. after the fact. We’re simply making it up as we go, because we’re unable t...

@"TheMadFool" I think the issue here is subjectivity. If I were able to give you an objective, physical, explanation of why X is pleasurable, I think ...

Not really. I always thought memes were simply things other than genes that are passed down from generation to generation. This could be your mom’s re...

Well, if ending suffering in and of itself is the only goal, then I guess this checks out. It just seems that there must be some additional motive for...

I would say yes for those individuals who are not opposed to being used for labor. I would further say that the majority of people would fall under th...

Sure, to obey authority. The individual goals of the person(s) in charge may change from election to election, or even day to day depending on the sta...

I’m saying that if Antinatalism is to be considered a type of morality, then it must seek to maintain morality. Otherwise it seeks it’s own demise by ...

Perhaps the root of trust lies in the ability to trust yourself? Maybe before you can ever really trust another, you first must trust, at least to a c...

I’m not making the claim that morality must endure no matter what, as if it is some purpose or meaning of life. I’m just not seeing how Antinatalism c...

Imagine that there are only two types of fruit; apples and oranges. Someone holds up one of them and declares that it is an apple. I can deny that sta...

If Antinatalism entails “no humans” then it also entails no need for morality. Agree? If that is the case, then why make moral statements and judgemen...

@"Frank Apisa" Precisely. This is why Atheism is not a belief that no no Gods exist. It isn’t a belief at all.

Yes one can, but only by convincing them that it is “good.” But “good” only makes sense in the paradigm of morality. The issue is that the statement “...

I get that my suffering is irrelevant if I, as someone contemplating parenthood, choose to not have children on the basis of Antinatalism. However, if...

@"darthbarracuda" Perhaps this helps... https://www.learnreligions.com/atheist-vs-agnostic-whats-the-difference-248040

Ok, but I’m just not convinced that the intermittent suffering of the child for 80+ years would be greater than the intermittent suffering of two peop...

Well, I’m not asking you to, but ok. Could you explain why a Pantheist or a Polytheist couldn’t also be an Antitheist? I don’t see why either one coul...

Because I’m making the same argument as him, only more specific. His post was in reference to Theism in general, whereas mine was referring to particu...

If you’re claiming that polytheists and pantheists are incapable of being antitheists because they are types of Theism, then you’re disagreeing with t...

I have some ideas I’d like you to consider: Regarding antinatalism, couldn’t it be argued that attempting to prohibit people from having children crea...

So you disagree with this?

But, a Polytheist or Pantheist could be an Antitheist if they disagreed with the Theistic conception of God and had some animosity towards Theism in g...

Yeah, I realize this. I should have said can apply across the board. I took their posts to just refer to behavior, which doesn’t necessarily correlate...

Yeah, I saw that in the link @"Baden" provided. Very interesting. Does this mean that Antitheist’s can believe anything they like regarding the existe...

I take Atheism to apply across the board, since it is the denial of any God’s existence. This would apply to Theistic conceptions of God or otherwise,...

Thanks, but this doesn’t seem to address the issue. Essentially if Theism refers to only certain types of religions, then it would make sense that Ant...