An Argument From Boredom/Frustration For Physicalism/Dualism
Consider two people: X an ordinary person, living an ordinary life in an ordinary place in ordinary times. By "ordinary" I wish to emphasize a life that can't be described as special in any sense of that word.
Y, as you would've guessed, is an extraordinary person, living an extraordinary life in an extraordinary time. Every sense of the word "special" applies to Y.
Into the lives of these two people, ordinary X and extraordinary Y, at some point, boredom (perhaps frustration is a better word) will inevitably step foot. X will be bored/frustrated with his life and Y too will be similarly bored/frustrated. Perhaps there are stories out there that will vindicate the existence of people like X and Y but none spring to mind as of the moment; so you'll have to come up with your own examples of people like X and Y and if you do happen to think of examples that are a perfect fit for my scenario kindly let me know for future reference.
Now, X and Y having reached the point of utter boredom/frustration in their respective lives would, as a means to overcome their predicament, seek experiences that are the complete opposite of the lives they've been living. It seems possible and perhaps even certain that X would hope to, and make efforts to, live Y's life and vice versa. X would desperately seek an extraordinary life and Y would desperately seek an ordinary one.
Compare the above scenario with our, the human, condition vis-a-vis physicalism vs dualism. My question is simple:
1. Is there any indication in the way we live , in the way we think, in the way we value, etc. that we're actually a mind substance, an immaterial soul as it were, that desperately wants to experience a physical existence - something ordinary like X's life?
OR
2. Are our values, thoughts, etc. an indication of a mere physical being trying desperately to experience an immaterial, non-physical existence - something extraordinary like Y's life?
If we look at religion, the answer seems clear: we're anxious to be souls - immaterial and outlasting physical existence and that suggests, by my logic, we're mere physical beings, like the person X in my scenario, bored/frustrated with his ordinary, material existence and desperately crying out for an extraordinary, immaterial life.
I clearly lack the means to decide how questions 1 & 2 will/should be answered. It'll be interesting to hear your views on the matter.
Y, as you would've guessed, is an extraordinary person, living an extraordinary life in an extraordinary time. Every sense of the word "special" applies to Y.
Into the lives of these two people, ordinary X and extraordinary Y, at some point, boredom (perhaps frustration is a better word) will inevitably step foot. X will be bored/frustrated with his life and Y too will be similarly bored/frustrated. Perhaps there are stories out there that will vindicate the existence of people like X and Y but none spring to mind as of the moment; so you'll have to come up with your own examples of people like X and Y and if you do happen to think of examples that are a perfect fit for my scenario kindly let me know for future reference.
Now, X and Y having reached the point of utter boredom/frustration in their respective lives would, as a means to overcome their predicament, seek experiences that are the complete opposite of the lives they've been living. It seems possible and perhaps even certain that X would hope to, and make efforts to, live Y's life and vice versa. X would desperately seek an extraordinary life and Y would desperately seek an ordinary one.
Compare the above scenario with our, the human, condition vis-a-vis physicalism vs dualism. My question is simple:
1. Is there any indication in the way we live , in the way we think, in the way we value, etc. that we're actually a mind substance, an immaterial soul as it were, that desperately wants to experience a physical existence - something ordinary like X's life?
OR
2. Are our values, thoughts, etc. an indication of a mere physical being trying desperately to experience an immaterial, non-physical existence - something extraordinary like Y's life?
If we look at religion, the answer seems clear: we're anxious to be souls - immaterial and outlasting physical existence and that suggests, by my logic, we're mere physical beings, like the person X in my scenario, bored/frustrated with his ordinary, material existence and desperately crying out for an extraordinary, immaterial life.
I clearly lack the means to decide how questions 1 & 2 will/should be answered. It'll be interesting to hear your views on the matter.
Comments (12)
Also, I disagree that we seek out opposite ways of life to alleviate boredom/frustration. I think we just seek novelty. If you become bored with playing the same video game every day, you just look for a new video game. If you become bored with video games altogether, you seek out other forms of entertainment.
It is a real cognitive dissonance rather than a desire to be spiritual beings that causes people to contemplate a life eternal.
Our "now" isn't a fleeting thing. It's always now. And yet a part of us doesn't change, and thereby seems eternal.
I don't believe it's all illusory. You and I, having existed, are permanent facts of the universe, one way or the other.
You underestimate Y. Being the creature you have described Y would simply move on to something that didn't bore them. X might also, but they probably wouldn't have the abilities for this to be easy. I don't think this is a good analogy with physicalism vs dualism. You could have skipped this preamble and gone directly to that issue.
The only feeling would be the feeling of certitude associated to facts. It's a nice feeling, a safe feeling. But pretty boring.
Obviously the feeling of certitude is already spiritual. So is boredom spiritual. I don't see how any feeling is alowed in physicalism, because feelings aren't physical. There is no mathematics of feelings.
Basically we are in a world which is focused on facts and the physical, and there is in principle no room allowed for personal opinion and emotion. Academics is basically rotten to the core, because of evolution theory, but religion is pretty focused on fact and physical too.
Quoting jgill
What could be more novel for a slave than freedom? What could be more interesting than the exact opposite of that which bores you?
That’s a rather extreme example, don’t you think? Besides, I very seriously doubt that boredom is what would make a slave want to seek freedom. I’m not saying that opposites can’t be novel, just that novelty doesn’t necessarily have to be opposite. I see very few wealthy people voluntarily choosing to become poor. I assume they do experience boredom, however, but they seek to alleviate it through other means. Probably by acquiring new toys, or going to new places, or learning new things. Regarding what is interesting, I would claim that interests tend to fall along similar categories. A physicist is more likely to also find biology interesting than say marketing. A painter would be more likely to be interested in learning a different art form.
I did mention frustration; also I'm not saying novelty is always opposite but I am saying opposites are the most novel.
Maybe, but I’m not sure how to tell what is more novel. I’ve never been to Paris or Cairo. Is one more novel than the other? I have a similar problem determining what is opposite. For example, what’s the opposite of a Rubik’s cube? Also, it seems that boredom and frustration arise from opposite causes. Boredom is caused by a task being too easy, or having no task at all. Frustrating is caused by a task being too difficult, or having too many tasks. So it seems the proper aim would be somewhere in the middle, but if you’re suggesting that we seek out opposites, then a bored person would seek out frustrating tasks and vice versa.
What could be more novel to a theist than atheism?
Anti-theism perhaps? But I’m sure you’re being rhetorical. Either way, you seem to be unable to respond to any of my questions. But I’ll ask another one anyway. If a person is an Atheist, then becomes a Theist, is Atheism still novel?
Theists can be anti-theists but to the former, a brand new lifestyle would be atheism.
Quoting Pinprick
Theism is novel.