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What I meant is - the definition is not opinion.

It trivializes art. Imagine philosophy for philosophy's sake.

Mine is not opinion. Is 1+1 opinion? It is logical fact, as opposed to your opinion.

I don't think this follows. Art was thought to be indefinite, but it is definite as per the definition, and then beyond this it is indefinite, for now...

It means art for arts sake.

The point I was trying to make is that you would not be satisfied with somebody calling your post arbitrary and indefinite - words about words. But so...

Even before language was created - before humanity possessed language?

So if I was to say the comment you just made is words about words - you would be satisfied? ** I don't think you would.

Yes, and this will remain an open question. This is what art is information about. Note how you have described how a changing social mind results in c...

This is true regarding the violinist, but notions such as art about art are so dim witted! :grimace: Similar to philosophy saying - life is about life...

But I have defined it. You have to invalidate the definition, or otherwise accept it.

No you do not get it. It has nothing to do with your opinion, or whether you think something is useful or not. It is to do with whether the definition...

:up: Thanks for the great post. With so many contrarians to attend to I forgot to comment on it. Yes, I also believe post modernism has made a mockery...

I have tried to imagine a consciousness before language and society, and there is not really much there without those socially derived concepts. It wo...

It does not restrict anybody. There are no artist's lining up outside my door in order to give a damn about the definition. :lol: However, the definit...

Why would I do that?

Yes by pointing out that even BS about art is an expression of consciousness. :roll: Ok, lets have it. What is your argument?

That anything deemed to be art, is art.

Your entire Op is informational structure. The words that you use represent concepts that are entirely socially derived. Without this socially derived...

This has been the understanding in art circles for the past 100 years or so, since Duchamp's urinal. This is not art? https://upload.wikimedia.org/wik...

Nah, that is totally captured. It is not possible to make art without expressing your consciousness. Something I keep repeating every few posts, but n...

:up: Yes they would if they could!! This definition is itself an artwork - in the form of a scientific, irreducible, and falsifiable definition of art...

This definition doesn't restrict the artist in any way, other than in the understanding that art is not simply art about art - that it is always inher...

A definition requires a constant. Strictly speaking art can be anything deemed to be art, but to do this would be an expression of consciousness. Of c...

I would say, these all have their physical manifestation as the neural patterning of our brain. The main advantage of this is that it allows a regular...

Yes. It is quite different to naive realism. It would mean such things as light waves and vibrations interacting with established neural information t...

Art is an expression of consciousness. At it's simplest, consciousness is mind activity. Although art is not exclusively an expression of mind activit...

We can be certain that everything exists as a body of information, as that is how it must exist in the physical patterning of our brains. This is not ...

Oh, I see. Cool, we can continue to speculate then! :smile:

Brain state as immaterial mind, is pretty much the end of the road theoretically. Once information becomes something immaterial we can not say much el...

Turing was such a brilliant mind. He really deserved to be celebrated like Einstein, not treated the way he was. I'm starting to see information as an...

It is specifically self organization - mind activity is always self organization. Consciousness is an evolving process of self organization. But the n...

But wouldn't this situation be an expression of their consciousness rather then aesthetics? Commercial art is still an expression of consciousness, bu...

**The form of the artist's consciousness, creates the form of the art, which effects the form of the observers consciousness, on, and on. This is how ...

Turing patterns are fascinating. What is the source of self organization - that is the 64billion dollar question - now billions due to inflation. :lol...

An artist is free to choose the form of their art, including paint by numbers ( which I think has been done ) but the choice they make reveals their p...

Yes, imo. This is the Enactivist view: that information from the world acts on us, and we in turn act on the world, and what is resolved is an amalgam...

Yes, after some research, it was a very broad interdisciplinary approach - that swarmed around the control of systems, which seems to have led to the ...

I define it to the extent that it can be defined, in the terms that can define it. It is not possible to define art in terms of aesthetics as they are...

Nevertheless they each have their own space and time, according to relativity. So their total information is not identical.

I wanted to emphasize that information is physical in the sense that it causes our brain patterning to change. I respect your interpretation, although...

:roll: How?

But now we know what that means?

I think art is confused and often meaningless in its current state, and was recently well symbolized by a banana nailed to a wall. Whether you like th...

Thanks - I have quite a bit of catching up to do! :smile:

Do you mean the operator in this case would be the forces of the vector field - Operating on the particle?

Thanks for that. What is meant by an operator valued distribution?

Yes, it is not at all clear cut, but roughly it provides such information, imo. Art symbolizes a certain attitude, or mindset, or understanding, and I...

Yes, I think the Information philosopher's definition is the obvious one - to inform - to literally change the shape of. This is what information does...