schopenhauer1

Nope.

Sure, but I'll just say, no harm, no foul. Where my decision actually prevented harm, yours didn't affect anything. Granted you can say placing weight...

So, why would the absence of a potential person's good be bad, if there is no actual person who is deprived? Is it bad you are not having a child that...

I have no allusions we are all going to hold hands and agree in unison on this topic. The outcome is not the point, it is the coming to the realizatio...

I agree with your sentiment here. I think thinking about existence itself is of the utmost importance (maybe the most important topic in philosophical...

I simply hold that ethics is in the realm of making decisions using reasoning and abstract ideas and as far as I know, only humans can do this. I can ...

The asymmetry which is a big part of Benatar's antinatalist argument is that absense of "good" is not "bad" unless there is an actual person to be dep...

I believe he does not if I remember his book. He takes into account subjective and objective forms of "good". He also takes into account various model...

Well, yes we are having a "meta" conversation, because well, this is a philosophy forum and almost everything is discussed at the abstract "removed" l...

All slogans for work- "Work hard, play hard".. "Work for its own sake".. "Work sets you free".. They all work similarly as propaganda to get humans to...

What happens if there is no way around suffering- if it is intractable from the get-go?

Because of the asymmetry that Benatar mapped out: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Benatar Prior to birth, there is no actual person to be deprived...

Wow, this is the most blatant anti-philosophical thing I've seen on here in a while. You don't agree with an opinion, so it should be banned. First of...

But that is what choosing for someone to be born is all about. No actual human lost out on anything prior to birth. What sort of collateral damage are...

I believe the mission is really the most important part- the title of the thread. It's just the fact that some of us know what is going on, and want t...

Nice poetry there.

Preventing suffering is the number one priority when it comes to ethics. We suffer and are used. We use others for sure too, but that just goes along ...

Nope. Suicide isn't the same as not existing in the first place. The point with most brands of antinatalism is that precisely because no actual person...

Ok, let me put this in context. Here is where Smokey the Bear and Uncle Sam posters are pointing at you and saying, YOU can prevent suffering (fully f...

:rofl: I almost always enjoy your comments. Can't really argue with any of this.

Doesn't matter. They were used too. Being born is being used, period. Not really. Being that we cannot make a choice to be born, right off the bat you...

As I was saying in my last post- people are used by society, not the other way around. We are lead to believe that by pursuing our own self-interests,...

First, we are animals.. just saying. I am against all forms of suffering if it can be prevented- even suffering through adversity. Preventing birth pr...

I think all suffering is bad- be it suffering through adversity (even if it results in making something stronger) or suffering through collateral dama...

That's too bad.

Indeed. Even if we were in a politically green utopia, suffering still stands, and can be prevented.

Not a good excuse to use people. That has been a theme of mine actually. People shouldn't be born to be used by society.

That's nice. A fact is suffering exists. Another fact is that it can be prevented fully. Another fact is that no one need be "deprived" of good, if no...

Actually, if we take Hartmann's idea seriously, the little projects are hastening the bigger project of discontinuation. The little projects will show...

Nah. Great project of ending suffering for the future and not imposing life onto others, making that choice for them. Karl Rober Eduard von Hartmann t...

I think the the fact that the aim is right in sight and not hidden, is important though.. it isn't just that we are ending suffering. It is that we ar...

Why not all of humanity on a project together? Life screws us over..time to start turning the tables against the conspiracy!

This is also about uniting.

I prioritize ethics to our own species first. Also, due to the fact that animals lack the self-awareness, it may be argued that it isn't our job to do...

Yes, good thing we can actively work against this by passively not having children.

Not sure about that cryptic one.. but working on our own species is fine with me as far as this ethic of not creating more suffering. Other animals ca...

All reasons for my antinatalism. We shouldn't put more people in this situation. Just because we can recognize our situation and adjust sometimes to c...

@"Bitter Crank" Any responses to this?

Yes consumption is the other end of the production. Economically speaking, it is a physical representation of our wants and needs. Capitalist economie...

@"Bitter Crank" What do you think about some of the latest posts?

I do think this is a good conversation. Many times when we reiterate or affirm a value, we are affirming the value of a culture. Most individual's tak...

Well, still seems to be conflict there, doesn't it? And raiding "wives" in other tribes for more options to mate with and carry on the group's lineage...

I think there is still structural suffering in all human life and lifestyles. We have to be careful not to commit the "noble savage" fallacy. All soci...

I say it time and time again on this forum, but your responses are some of the wisest I've seen, on here or anywhere really. Thank you again for your ...

What say you @"Bitter Crank"?

Well look at this article that just came out on antinatalism: https://thebigsmoke.com.au/2019/02/14/wish-youve-never-been-born-youre-bang-on-the-mark-...

Both come up short simply by the fact that being born itself is the first form of coercion. We are used by society from the beginning- as labor, for t...

But do you see that you are not really countering my argument but strengthening it here? Overall, love is a bitch, if you will. Not only is love not o...

Yes all well and good. Your answer regarding your personal experience with this type of love and its leading you to greater awareness of interconnecte...

Any position which bolsters an X goal for child rather than considering whether to create harm would be incompatible. But that doesn't necessarily hav...