schopenhauer1

One does not have to be an aggregate utilitarian to be an antinatalist. Thats where your conclusion went wrong.

I believe the Joe Pesci line belongs here... https://media.tenor.com/images/d578c372d86ec1614f185d26c0a530cd/tenor.png

Ok, you can just try to explain how my particular argument is not an argument.

But I am saying to apply your critique of why my argument is not an argument not just a general critique of how a question isn't an argument or someth...

So what. If even only half the time, or part of the time it was suffering, if you want to prevent any condition where suffering will occur for another...

Ironically, you did not make an argument for why my particular argument is not an argument. Poor form if you want to show what you are accusing.

I disagree that it is not an argument. However, I can accept that the insistence of it (the complaint) is part of the pessimistic process of catharsis...

I think you are overmining the idea that morality has to be equal to legality. It doesn't. Veganism may be true, it doesn't mean it should be enforced...

You are not addressing the argument that if Y always follows from X, then if you don't want Y, X. You are trying to do a switcharoo where I am aggrega...

This is the crux of our disagreement. I am saying that we should not force others to play a game where they sometimes (and sometimes a lot) will lose....

I don't buy it. If the same state of affairs is almost always (by empirical evidence) coupled with any X particular cases that cause suffering, why do...

True enough.. but we can assume people are valued more for their productive capacity than not, and thus taken more seriously the more they are seen as...

Um, so how is that not an empirical question? This I am admitting.. We would have to observe what suffering there is, and what causes it. So what is y...

Agreed, and there can be a whole discussion of expertise vs. wisdom, etc. However, I would like to focus specifically on expertise in the science/tech...

I think preventing pain is more important than bestowing pleasure, certainly. There is no obligation for providing pleasure, but certainly if one is A...

I've already written a lot on this so don't wish to go into another argument, but surely we can consider a future state where a person will exist by o...

But I guess the question would be whether YOUR values should be bestowed on someone else, who may not share them. Further, even if you do not use plea...

He's a good example. But it can be a more unknown person who can prove their credentials in their productive capacities. Then the middle-class type mi...

Yes, I agree with those, but I am focusing specifically on productive capacity, specifically ones that involve practical trades and science/technology...

Very good point. You know about a bunch of theories on math, ergo you must know something more than the person that does not study this when it comes ...

Agreed. I am just trying to define the "respectable middle-class" approach is measuring someone's productive capacities (and I specified examples of t...

Don't you think there is a "production bias" for middle-class types in general though, when it comes to legitimacy? The more you produce tangible thin...

I did address causality here: So if you actually read it, you can parse out several ideas. I will do it for you since you refuse: 1) It's an empirical...

What do you mean by that? I addressed your claims, this is evasion. If you want to show my how I didn't address your claims in my rebuttal, go ahead.

You have to admit, you don't actually address my rebuttals. However you characterize it, I have given you my response. If you would like to address it...

No, I am not a utilitarian totalizer like this.

Well ditto. I think you are abusing language yourself here as you know perfectly well why procreation is the target: 1) If we take the deontological a...

I'm just suggesting there may be a bias. I think more empirical evidence might be needed. No doubt.. But I think it may be an interesting study to see...

But I am also trying to reveal that people often deem that knowing minutia in a field itself confers by some necessity, better understanding in existe...

But for the "respectable folk" and not the rabble it would have to be high profile scientists, inventors, titans of industry, highly trained technicia...

People are HOPING the practically-accomplished person in the sciences and construction trades would be a "pragmatic-realist" (like them) and not somet...

Good question. What I'm trying to get at is a possible bias we have for people we perceive as having more productive capacity or insight into "how-thi...

Yes, this is almost where I'm going with this. Let's change this up a bit... What happens if I knew how to do all the practical trades (I can design, ...

Yes, I think unless paradise, not worth it. That sentence should read.. "Would not recommend: "Procreate-until-we-get-to-that-Transhumanist goal", mea...

How about on matters such as ethics, politics, social theory, etc?

Took it out of this thread

Human derived systems are necessary for survival, yet the paradox is that humans can self reflect and realize that they dont like the system they need...

Benkei. If ALL cases of suffering stem from the state of affairs of being born, then ALL cases of suffering can be prevented by preventing that state ...

Not much of a philosophical case, but I see you have made your personal stance known.

@"Albero" already pretty much answered it how I would.

But that is exactly the position that AN would say is not acceptable in terms of not creating unnecessary suffering on behalf of someone else. Why cre...

Right, but this is all world of representation. How is it that representation gets in the picture at all if all is Will? If you say "Maya" then, how d...

Yes, Platonic forms. Then how did THAT get into the equation with Will?

Well, the deeming is on behalf of the future person. Why not go with the minimum amount of harm? Why create the suffering/overcoming-suffering game fo...

Hi David, I was wondering if your philosophy is more aggregate-centered, or individual-centered. It seems to me to be more aggregate-centered. Often t...

I guess someone would question it and say, should the parent be the harbinger for someone else's suffering/overcoming-suffering game? Because YOU deem...

Also, pessimists don't always just "hate life".. Even Schopenhauer, the ARCH pessimist, liked playing flute, plays, his poodle, and going to concerts....

Or those who already have those intuitions gravitate to a more formalized philosophy which makes sense of the vague thoughts they have already intuite...

Care to explain, keeping in mind a productive conversation rather than simply ad hom?

Then why risk.other peoples lives who have such widely varying evaluations and such possibilities of horrible experiences? Why should others assume an...