...has anyone here made use of Wolfram Language and/or Wolfram|Alpha? — Banno
What do folk make of it?
It's the language supporting Mathematica, Wolfram's pride and joy. I dabbled with it for a bit in dong math, but found it seemed to be too high level for me. Designed to do a myriad of sophisticated tasks that normally appear in popular areas of mathematics, I was so far off the popular paths it was easier to just use BASIC and create from scratch. Just me.
human invention to find some members of the opposite sex more attractive or even put up with their nagging, yet the invention of beer had no such necessity Men just wanted to get pissed and talk about football.
I do think the question of alcohol and human reproduction and evolution is an interesting one. A substance that modifies us from being inhibited conscientious responsible creatures by day to haphazard carefree creatures by night is necessary if we wish to be productive at some points and reproductive at others.
Such is especially true of women, who are exposed to far greater risks interacting with men, not the least of which is pregnancy.
Many children would not exist without alcohol. Cultures that remove alcohol go to great lengths to sanctify and ritualize the mating process, while at the same time demonizing alcohol, as they have to arrive at a way to achieve the result of reproduction.
This is the secular human mating dance.
Male mate seeking chances increase dramatically at such events. While I'm sure some less attractive women are advantaged by the "beer goggle" effect, women tend to have little difficulty finding sex under most circumstances, so t is the male who is most advantaged with alcohol.
Interestingly though, to a non-drinker, few things are less attractive and more boring than the above picture.
Sorry to create a seriousish post in response to your casual comments about drinking though. Shit like this happens in the Shoutbox.
That is very true but now they have the morning after pill so fuck to your hearts content if that’s what you want. Some want to go the career route, untraditional I know so kids are not had at all or sometimes not even wanted.
I was on a fb dating group the other day but anyway this a post from a lady.
“Hello, so I thought I'd introduce myself not much to say.. I'm 28 from (location removed) I was on singles groups until a couple of years ago I met a man got married and now I'm back but this time with a baby currently looking for a friend I'm not sure if you do group meets but will be lush to meet you all and thankyou for having me
This is a really good picture of me.. I usually look a mess ”
Still concerned about her appearance the silly cow, but anyway she’s looking for a friend now, now it takes no genius to realise that this woman will most likely find such a friend and 2 years after she will be making the same post.
Reply to Moliere That’s cool. It just so happens that I was casually looking into that area the other day, specifically about Priest’s application of dialetheism to Hegel. My most basic intuition is that Priest is wrong: Hegel in the Logic specifically accepts the law of noncontradiction when he says it’s trivial. And it’s not like he says anything about exceptions. It would seem to follow that at least as far as Hegel was concerned, he wasn’t a dialetheist. That paper you linked to seems to agree.
But I’m no logician.
Actually I’m no Hegelian either, except in Spirit.
Still concerned about her appearance the silly cow, but anyway she’s looking for a friend now, now it takes no genius to realise that this woman will most likely find such a friend and 2 years after she will be making the same post.
Not heard the "silly cow" phrase, so I looked it up. Thought it referenced someone who might be fat (cow like?), but it doesn't I'm to learn. British talk for a silly foolish person.
I don't know why you think her post so foolish though or that she's destined for repeat disappointment. She sounded like a single mother just reaching out for companionship. I have trouble being critical of anyone's efforts at love, the payoff being so great and the risk so minimal, although it might often feel overwhelming.
That's less about me being romantic and sympathetic and more to do with having been there though. I credit her for taking her shot.
I'm just feeling a bit claustrophobic with all you guys cornering me for this or that. And this isn't about me being sensitive. Everyone says it. They've been saying it a lot and it goes over and over.
And what do you mean about "know" I'm ok? Who are these us that need to know?
Well firstly she has devalued herself, unless the man is happy to raise her child as his own, and that does take a man. Kinda reducing her value as a single mother, rather than delaying her choice of parenthood. The father left, don’t know if any financial support will be provided for the child going forward but the actual facts are it was a two year relationship with one child. Why rush that ? Don’t know the reasons for the separation could have been either party’s fault.
There’s also not to rare for actually pregnant women looking for a men on this sort of online dating sites too…
Ok yes slightly judgemental but was it because of lack of good judgment in her potential choice of partner ?
Haha what I meant to be devalued is that her value in the future dating scene reduces by 33% compared to a childless woman of the same age and attractiveness.
Well firstly she has devalued herself, unless the man is happy to raise her child as his own, and that does take a man. Kinda reducing her value as a single mother, rather than delaying her choice of parenthood. The father left, don’t know if any financial support will be provided for the child going forward but the actual facts are it was a two year relationship with one child. Why rush that ? Don’t know the reasons for the separation could have been either party’s fault.
It's clear you're not the person for her, so it's fair that you overlook her post.
The real world is messy and that sometimes means it doesn't follow the perfect path. A 28 year old with a child isn't all that unusual, and I'd expect if I were dating in that pool, I'd expect that. It's also quite possible a better match for her would be someone with a child as well, or perhaps someone who wouldn't see the presence of a child as a burden, but a blessing.
But I don't agree that a child reduces someone's value as a person even if it does reduce their value to you as a potential person to date.
But yes, your post is judgmental, but so is my response, far more than I let on. Different worldviews. Different points in our lives. Different experiences. The beauty of the interweb.
Reply to Jamal Heh, I'm neither logician nor a Hegelian. But I am very interested in the project of formalizing Hegel's dialectics, and know just enough to be dangerous :D
One of the thoughts I had in parallel to dialethia on this morning's walk was how dialethia have to be circumscribed somehow in order to avoid the principle of explosion. In most logic we'd classify them as contradictions, but the Hegelian or dialetheist both have to find some way of making that appealing to reason in spite of the history of logic, or else it's simply not surprising -- especially in the case of Hegel -- that his theory applies to everything, given the principle of explosion.
I'm really excited that the paper I linked has a formal definition of a dialectical contradiction that is also consistent with the LNC. I've scratched my head about how to formally define sublation, and this is definitely on that track.
But there is something admirable about making good choices rather than bad choices.
A good choice would be one that leads to a happy and long marriage, we don’t get taught this of course and instincts and emotions over ride sound judgement. Love is blind indeed!
Is there anyone on the forum who has found all the answers? The answers to the questions of God and the meaning of life?
Maybe not all the answers but I can say "the truth exists". It has to, as if the truth didn't exist, nothing would be true, nothing would be consistent, constant, nothing would exist (be true).
The truth is the basis for knowledge and moral. Because to understand the truth is knowledge, and to tell the truth is moral. Honestly. Revealing nature. They're inextricably linked.
So fundamental truth as a source of power, control, wisdom, knowledge, order, sense and moral, is what we ought to strive for as it is fundamental meaning: what is (knowledge - the goal) and what ought to be (ethical imperative to do so - to pursue the goal). Thus it is the answer and the motivation to seek the answer.
We can worship the truth as the source of all knowledge and moral and call it God. Or we can simply call it the truth. That's up to the individual and their preference for terms.
But underlying all meaning, is all pervading, all permeating truth, that which binds, ties together, underlies, all of reality (what is true and what can be true, throughout all of time).
Gentlemen. As mayor of the shoutbox it is my duty to inform you that things have gotten much too serious here.
Tonight I will be getting back in touch with my Amuricanism by seeing the New York Yankees (The Stankees as my dad calls them) vs. the Cleveland Guardians. Our ace is on the mound, so hoping for a win. I will be consuming a minimum of 2 shitty hot dogs and two 24oz shitty beers.
I shall perform a tactical retreat in my post regarding single mums parenthood and just say…shoulda used a Johnny.
Planned or unplanned parenthood resulting in a healthy child is a glorious thing as you rightly mentioned but is it ideal ? Depends if both parents play a positive role in their upbringing. Not as ideal as a happy marriage but maybe I’m just old fashioned, believing in old school @Hanoverfamily structure mum and dad and children.
Reply to Jamal it appears I have struck a nerve. My question is whether the "striking of nerve" is the issue, or rather the fact that "the nerve exists at all" be the problem.
Perhaps we ought reflect on our egos. And consider whether our intentions are truthful (moral and/or knowledgable) or not.
Reply to Jamal Bit rude. Haha. Was that really neccesary? In all honesty. I don't believe calling people names demonstrates mutual respect at all.
I forgive you for defining me in such an unruly and harsh way, provided you re-evaluate your approach towards another human being with regard for their feelings/emotions. As to not care for such, is despotism, totally immoral and uncalled for.
Sincere attempts at sincerity here are inappropriate. A giant dump might help. Some have even been known to cover themselves entirely in faeces as a cure. But that is not always necessary.
It has to, as if the truth didn't exist, nothing would be true, nothing would be consistent, constant, nothing would exist (be true).
I like this, but I'd rewrite it - Since the truth doesn't exist, nothing can be true, nothing can be consistent, constant, nothing can exist. I'm not sure what it means... Wait, I'll ask Chat GPT... It says you're right and I'm wrong. It can go fuck itself.
I was going to post what it said, but it strikes me that AI is starting to take over the site. It's fun, but I think after a month or so, once people have had a chance to get it out of their systems, @Jamal et. al should exclude it from the forum, or at least limit it's use.
I have this little laugh, very brief and quiet, like "hmph." It happens when something amuses me just a bit. It annoys people because they think I'm making fun of something they said.
In fact it happened yesterday while at work. I was watching a baseball game and ringing up a customer at the same time (because I'm an intrepid, hard working employee), and something goofy happened in the game, so I snorted. I think the customer thought I was snorting at them for having trouble using the card reader. I felt bad about it momentarily and then forgot about it. Until now when I remembered it, and now I feel bad about it again. Gee thanks Clarky.
Oscar Wilde once commented thusly concerning sincerity (excerpted from the collection "The Secret Comics of Oscar Wilde" which draws from material scrawled by the great man in faeces--presumably his own--on the walls of Reading Gaol.)
Time for a pint and I just know the place that extort every penny of me, Brewdog founded by a guy who later turned into harassing his female members of staff so much so that upon announcing visits to branches the management would warn female staff not to turn up for their shift.
The stick man can be seen as the thesis, representing the "sincere person." The sincerity of the stick man is likely a characteristic that he values and embodies as part of his self-identity.
The dog with jagged teeth wearing a hat and carrying bags labeled "honest" and "DD" represents the antithesis. The dog's jagged teeth and the labels on the bags suggest that the dog is not trustworthy or honest, which opposes the stick man's sincerity.
The two characters, thesis and antithesis, represent a dialectical opposition, creating a conflict that demands resolution. This conflict can be seen as a struggle between opposing forces, or a contradiction that needs to be reconciled.
In Hegelian philosophy, the resolution of such conflicts comes through synthesis, where the two opposing forces are reconciled into a new entity that incorporates the best aspects of both. In the case of this cartoon, the synthesis might be a scenario where the stick man and the dog work together to achieve a common goal, with the stick man's sincerity being balanced by the dog's honesty and the bag labeled "DD" suggesting that the dog is carrying something valuable that can be used to achieve their goal.
In conclusion, the cartoon can be seen as a representation of a dialectical process where opposing forces (the stick man's sincerity and the dog's lack of trustworthiness) are brought into conflict and ultimately reconciled through synthesis.
On second thoughts I’m just gonna keep my mouth shut and enjoy this lovely pint. I have to be aware of my responsibilities as a semi-pro philosopher that the expression of certain opinion or ideas can shape the future actions of readers that could be reading my post on this very public media.
For the sake of prudence or perhaps wisdom I shall refrain from such careless inconsiderations.
Reply to Hanover Curious that you’re sticking to the thesis-antithesis-synthesis interpretation of Hegel that’s so unpopular among scholars now. Is there a reason you’re not using his own concepts of determinate negation and sublation? :chin:
Curious that you’re sticking to the thesis-antithesis-synthesis interpretation of Hegel that’s so unpopular among scholars now. Is there a reason you’re not using his own concepts of determinate negation and sublation? :chin:
While the thesis-antithesis-synthesis interpretation of Hegel's dialectic may be unpopular among contemporary scholars, it is still a widely recognized and influential interpretation of Hegelian philosophy. Therefore, it is possible that my responses may draw on this interpretation when discussing Hegelian philosophy.
That being said, the concepts of determinate negation and sublation are important to understanding Hegelian philosophy and are often used to describe the dialectical process. Determinate negation refers to the negation of a particular concept or thesis, while sublation refers to the process of preserving and transcending that concept in a higher synthesis. These concepts can help to clarify the dynamic process of the dialectic and its role in the development of consciousness and history.
Reply to Hanover Your response shows only superficial acquiescence to my position, while remaining wedded to the Fichtean scheme. Update your training materials!
[quote=Walter Kaufmann]Fichte introduced into German philosophy the three-step of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis, using these three terms. Schelling took up this terminology. Hegel did not. He never once used these three terms together to designate three stages in an argument or account in any of his books. And they do not help us understand his Phenomenology, his Logic, or his philosophy of history; they impede any open-minded comprehension of what he does by forcing it into a scheme which was available to him and which he deliberately spurned [...] The mechanical formalism [...] Hegel derides expressly and at some length in the preface to the Phenomenology.[/quote]
Your response shows only superficial acquiescence to my position, while remaining wedded to the Fichtean scheme. Update your training materials!
What I believe I will do is take my outdated materials and then I will study the revised approach you have provided, and with that, I shall bring them together, sythnthesize them if you will, and a higher order understanding will emerge. BUT WAIT! It doesn't end there. This higher order understanding will result with a conflicting position and those two will come together once again, a synthesis if you will, and then yet a higher order understanding will again emerge.
This will continue on into the night and into the next day and the next day.
Then, an unassuming Tuesday will happen, and on that day, the Day of Days, the synthesis will encounter Billy Kaufmann, who will shut this trifecta process down, once and for all. Once and for all. Once and for all. I said it three times because that's a Hegalian number.
A read a survey of philosophy by Walter Kaufmann a long time ago and remember it as unusually clear and enjoyable. Unfortunately, that's about all I remember about it.
Am I wrong or are you working on usurping Hanover from his position as the creepiest poster on the Shoutbox? You have quite a ways to go.
I'm not creepy. I'm absurd. There's no real thought that I might fuck my sister, even if she weren't dead, despite the accuracy I described in removing the ventilator from her as she lay dying.
Now that's quality stuff right there. It's disgusting, yes, but I don't make comments about the limited worth of those who have children out of wedlock, or, as others might refer to them, "mothers."
A wise entity:In summary, "creepy" refers to something that is unsettling or disturbing, while "absurd" refers to something that is illogical or nonsensical.
There once was a man named Hanover,
Whose jokes always verged on the absurd,
He thought he was funny,
But his puns were quite runny,
And the punchlines landed like a turd.
Creepy and absurd aren't mutually exclusive of course. Performing a Hegalian analysis on this would go like this:
The synthesis of absurd and creepy can result in something that is unsettling and bizarre. This can take the form of a situation or object that is inexplicable or out of place, causing a sense of unease or discomfort. For example, a clown standing alone in a dark alleyway, or a painting of a distorted face with unnaturally large eyes can both be considered absurdly creepy. It's a combination of the unexpected or nonsensical with an element of fear or horror. Another example of such an instance would be where Hanover fucks his sister while she lies dying and he curses her for shit soiling his clown outfit.
That comedy improv class was the best thing I’ve done in a while and it was all luck I was happening to be at that venue, apparently it’s every Wednesday and the guy running it can sort out my first ever comedy performance
There once was a man named Hanover,
Whose jokes always verged on the absurd,
He thought he was funny,
But his puns were quite runny,
And the punchlines landed like a turd.
Rhythm is off. How about:
There once was a creep named Hanny,
Who was a real pain in the fanny,
He used some Als,
To try to sound wise,
But convinced not a soul he was canny!
Meter is better. Only moderately insulting though.
Praxis, can you ask chatGPT on how a normal horny man like Hanover can improve his game when it comes to the opposite sex, specifically chat up lines, demeanour, appeal and average looks.
How can a normal horny man like Hanover can improve his game when it comes to the opposite sex, specifically chat up lines, demeanour, appeal and average looks.
@invicta You're maybe getting too real about stuff in your private life we don't need to know about so I've edited you. Keep the perversions ironical and funny, please.
Oh, parking lot, how you doth bring,
A sense of loss and suffering,
As ChatGPT will tell you, it can't experience loss and suffering. Its use of the terms is synthetic. The message is that it won't bleed as it destroys us,
Oh, how the machines have taken hold,
And crushed the beauty of the old,
Where once a garden bloomed with life,
Now stands a symbol of human strife.
I read that as a threat and a promise. Flip to Dune:
What was the Butlerian Jihad of the Dune Universe directed against? Artificial intelligence! (this is not revealed explicitly in the Herbert books. Herbert's son wrote prequels and sequels.). What were the Honored Matres fleeing from their far scattering? The same artificial intelligence that the Butlerian Jihad thought they had utterly destroyed. They all-but did, but not quite. The intelligent machines set up shop far away from human territory and eventually began reaching back toward the human core world, trough conquest, scaring the living daylights out of the Honored Matres.
In the final denouement of the last sequel, the Kwisatz Haderach is revealed (it's not who you would expect) the AIs are destroyed, and the worms help in the whole effort.
So, maybe there is a Butlerian Jihad in our future?
I hope I haven’t offended anyone by accident with my quirky sense of humour, i may be slightly drunk but auto correct gives the impression that I can spell correctly
Creepy and absurd aren't mutually exclusive of course.
Good point. I had not made any judgement about absurdity. Yes, your work often combines creepiness with absurdity while @invicta's is more purely creepy. As I noted in my first post on this subject, your title remains firmly in your grasp at this time.
The quality of posts on the Shoutbox has declined precipitously. I think it should take another few years off.
"Precipitously" is a funny word. It means to go down quickly as on a very steep slope or off a cliff but when you say the word it sounds like you're walking down a set of stairs. What is the opposite of "onomatopoeia?"
The quality of posts on the Shoutbox has declined precipitously.
Maybe in the past week or so, but overall in the past couple months I’ve found the quality to be quite strong. As mayor of the shoutbox I keep a close eye on these metrics, believe me.
A read a survey of philosophy by Walter Kaufmann a long time ago and remember it as unusually clear and enjoyable. Unfortunately, that's about all I remember about it.
I think he’s most famous for his translations of Nietzsche and his book Nietzsche: Philosopher, Psychologist, Antichrist. A very engaging writer, so I’ve heard.
A few weeks ago I asked GPT3 or 3.5 about the differing interpretations of Hegel's dialectic. I couldn't shake its faith in the thesis-antithesis-synthesis stuff, which I suppose reflects the way it's still taught to students. Surprised me though.
I like this, but I'd rewrite it - Since the truth doesn't exist, nothing can be true, nothing can be consistent, constant, nothing can exist. I'm not sure what it means... Wait, I'll ask Chat GPT... It says you're right and I'm wrong. It can go fuck itself.
Well this is nihilism essentially. The flipside of the coin. But I think the idea that "nothing can be true" is less intuitive/sensible for me personally, as it is for many others.
How many non-brits here will watch the coronation (this Saturday) of another inheritor, of the now stone dead 'divine right of Kings,' inheritance, that the (certainly not) 'United' Kingdom of 'Great' :lol: :rofl: :lol: Britain, wishes to spend (a recently predicted) £100 million!!!! of public money on, at a time of a cost of living crisis?
Just interested on how crazy you 'foreigners' think we so called 'brits,' really are?
I am not asking for your reasons for or against the continuation of the brit monarchy, just whether or not you will watch the spectacle and why?
Btw, Happy Star Wars day!
May the 4th be with you all, (well most of you, the rest can ..........!)
Is national identity something that plays a significant roll in your own persona?
I'm not sure. I describe myself as Scottish, since I was brought up there from the age of two and can speak fluent Scotch. And if anyone denies I am Scottish based on their favourite pseudo-criteria like place of birth or father's nationality or whatever, I become enraged. So aye, I guess it does.
That said, I've never been a separatist, although I'm closer to the fence now than I was.
My thesis: X tikka masala is a British Indian dish rather than an authentic Indian dish because in India generally people might have X curry--which is X stewed in a sauce--or X tikka, which is skewers of X chunks roasted in a tandoor and then served dry. The innovation happened because Brits wanted a sauce (masala) for their tikka chunks.
So although it looks like a curry, it isn't really. It's roasted chunks added to a sauce, not cooked in it.
if anyone denies I am Scottish based on their favourite pseudo-criteria like place of birth or father's nationality or whatever, I become enraged.
:lol: I sooooooo relate to that same indignancy, but not for quite the same reasons as you describe, and only when I am not in Scotland.
I expect the philosophical prowess of TPF, to fully explain such behaviour of personal psyche, so that I might better control my indignant responses, in the now rarer times when I get a comment from some (for example) Americans, such as "So you guys are all from Scatland England? I so love your 'bucking' 'ham' palace." I also hate when some people refer to 'YOUR' Queen or 'YOUR' King.
That's when I wish I had bought that 'Not MY King,' badge. But that can be an unhealthy badge to forget to remove, before entering a sectarian east end of Glasgow pub, because one of your group says 'Naw guys, trust me, it's no that bad anymair! an someirakaraoke is a laugh!'
Reply to universeness Of course, I have that problem too. In Russia they will ask a question that includes the word "Angliski" and I'm not sure whether to say yes or no because I'm not sure if they're asking me what language I speak or where I come from, so to be safe I say, "Niet, Schotlandski". The problem then is they sometimes think, "oh, do they speak a different language in Scotland?"
Sometimes it's easier and the key word is "Americanski," which I can unambiguously deny.
Reply to Jamal
Perhaps it's wiser to just insist that I am an Earthling, but I don't think many sectarian Scots or compulsive aggressive nationalists in all their colourful manifestations, would let me occupy that national 'non-committal' space without protest or accusation.
I remember a group of knuckle draggers in a local Glasgow pub (in an area I had just moved into,) asking me if I supported Celtic, and my response of 'I don't follow football guys or religion,' was answered with (and agreed to by the other knuckle draggers) 'oh, so yer a bluenose!!!' :lol: :death: :flower:
Eventually, I became good weekend drinking buddies with all those local knuckle draggers.
Reply to Jamal
Anyway, I would like to officially request that you and your 'we arra mods' security team use your obvious knowledge of electronic wizardry, to usurp the global transmission of Saturday's coronation abomination, by causing 'picture-in-picture' images to appear on every screen, that depict foodbanks, homeless folks, strikes, NHS queue lists for essential life saving operations, etc, etc whilst also displaying flashes of the £100 million cost of this elitist pageantry that we f***wits are paying for.
If you and your crew do it from your base in Russia, then we can all blame Putin!
It's not much to ask you for imo?
Btw, don't worry, shhhhhhh, this message will self-destruct in 3000 years! or when you decide to delete it as some members of TPF are bound to be secretly working for MI5. I think I know who they are if you are interested!
Reply to Jamal
NOOOOOOOOOOO! For f*** sake, don't go there. Especially not as Jamal! They might get all Jamal Khashoggi on you!
Putin is probably a direct descendant of Queen Victoria! Just arrange for him to get the blame, remember he thinks he IS the return of the Russian Tsar.
Especially when he dresses up at the weekend as a Russian orthodox religious Icon and calls himself 'Nicholas III,' in that big Russian mirror of his.
I don't think it's nihilism, but I must admit I wouldn't have been as flip as I was if this weren't the Shoutbox. My primary philosophical point, as opposed to my smarty-pants one, is that truth is a flawed standard by which to judge our understanding of the world. This is a point I've made many times here on the forum.
Yes, Banno, I admit it. If anyone were to challenge me for the title of best poster of pompous summary judgements here on the forum, you would be at the top of the list.
You can get custom shirts from them for about 20 bucks.
I made a shirt once. I put a picture of a hamburger on the front it and I I wrote on the back:
Hamburger Place.
Home of the plain hamburger.
20% gratuity added.
I thought it was funny, but I never wore it.
My other idea was to have a really long quote that sort of wrapped around and ended under the arm or something. I would have done that but I decided to stop wasting my money on things only I thought were funny. Instead, I just wrote about it here where you guys could enjoy it. Enjoy!
Reply to praxis If you watch Tiktok, you might see where they have AI representations based upon the country, city, or college you might be from. You typically will see those after maybe the 4th or 5th hour of mindless watching, so you need to get started.
Reply to Jamal I appreciate the goading. Today I finished the paper I linked and it's mind-bending.
I have to read up on models to really make sense of it. If I can make sense of it I think it's pretty close to understanding sublation formally -- at least better than before. Somehow I have to tease out the relationship between the formal definition of a dialectical contradiction, and the statement which follows from "the negation of the negation" -- at least that's where my mind is at.
According to the Natural History Museum (UK) "Scientists found that the ancestors of modern horses were domesticated in the northern Caucasus region in what is now southern Russia"
If you watch Tiktok, you might see where they have AI representations based upon the country, city, or college you might be from. You typically will see those after maybe the 4th or 5th hour of mindless watching, so you need to get started.
Scientists found that the ancestors of modern horses were domesticated in the northern Caucasus region in what is now southern Russia
If you look, you'll find that Kazakhstan directly abuts the northern Caucasus on the north end of the Caspian Sea. It's my understanding that border control was ineffective in that region 4,000 years ago.
Were you deliberately trying to get me in trouble?
I think the prompt was just "astronaut.". Wonder lets you pick a picture to use as a sort of template? So I started with "St. Francis on fire with sunglasses" and then used one of the outputs as the template. I have some chimpanzees as astronauts.
But to answer your question, yes, I was hoping I could get the FBI to stop by your house. Or at least a member of the Reedy Creek Nazi Planning Board.
I attended a couscous caucus in Caucasus beside a carcass.
The whole thing was fucking weird, right? I mean who the hell goes to caucuses devoted to couscous, especially in such remote areas, and how random is it that it went down beside a dead body?
The Caucasus were there 4000 year ago (mountains); not sure about who / what / why lived in Kazakhstan.
The Caucasus are a region, not, or not just, a mountain range. As I noted, they stretch north from the mountains to the north end of the Caspian Sea and thus to what is now known as Kazakhstan.
I can say that without being anti-English by the way, because when people get my nationality wrong it’s rare for people to say I’m anything other than English.
When I was a barman one of the drinkers insisted I was Iranian. I wasn’t offended, though I did deny it, since it wasn’t true. She didn’t believe me and kept on asking me why I was lying for the next hour.
Reply to T Clark But so what? Why do you think the BNH Museum scientists identified the Caucasus as the location of horse domestication rather than Kazakhstan? Presumably, if they had meant that the horse was first domesticated in Kazakhstan, they would have said so.
The Caucasus and Central Asia are separated by the Caspian Sea. It's hundreds of miles from the Caucasus to the top tip of Kazakhstan. And that top tip is not even classed as being in Central Asia; it's the European part of Kazakhstan.
Those hundreds of miles are the Kalmyk steppe, which is not part of the Caucasus.
I was in the Caucasus a while ago and I saw the Kalmyk steppe. Very wide and beige.
The Caucasus and Central Asia are separated by the Caspian Sea. It's hundreds of miles from the Caucasus to the top tip of Kazakhstan. And that top tip is not even classed as being in Central Asia; it's the European part of Kazakhstan.
As I noted, the Caucasus don't just include the area immediately next to the mountains, they stretch up to the north end of the Caspian Sea, where they border Kazakhstan.
Reply to T Clark But I realize you will do anything to hold on to your position and end up leaving the debate with "I think we'll leave it there". :razz:
According to the Natural History Museum (UK) "Scientists found that the ancestors of modern horses were domesticated in the northern Caucasus region in what is now southern Russia"
So @T Clark, you may have a point, since the Natural History Museum mention the "northern Caucasus region" which likely means the North Caucasus region, which does indeed extend to the Volga delta, where the European part of Kazakhstan is.
I appreciate the goading. Today I finished the paper I linked and it's mind-bending.
I have to read up on models to really make sense of it. If I can make sense of it I think it's pretty close to understanding sublation formally -- at least better than before. Somehow I have to tease out the relationship between the formal definition of a dialectical contradiction, and the statement which follows from "the negation of the negation" -- at least that's where my mind is at.
Do you think that a formalization actually helps Hegelians, or helps people who who want to theorize dialectically (Marxists, critical theorists), or do you think it’s just to help with the integration of Hegel into analytic philosophy—or is it just curiosity?
Because, isn’t formalization totally against the spirit of Hegel? I don’t meant that he’s illogical, but just that the attempt to pin down dialectics is what he warned against.
Because, isn’t formalization totally against the spirit of Hegel? I don’t meant that he’s illogical, but just that the attempt to pin down dialectics is what he warned against.
All you say is consistent with Hegel in that we should expect today's theory to be a synthesis of his prior theory and it's opposite.
This is why it's changed from how you learned it was before.
It's slippery.. in a few years, It'll be different.
This is a direct contradiction of terms. Truth is unflawed by its very nature. If it were then it would not be truth. It would be false (flawed).
Whether we know/are aware of the truth on the otherhand is a separate argument entirely. Human concepts of truth are likely flawed, as humans are, and thus a flawed standard by which to understand the world as you say. I agree on that capacity.
But that doesn't mean fundamental truth doesn't exist. It merely means we haven identified it or our understandings of it are not sufficient.
My claim, is that truth must, and does, tie the whole thing together (the universe). One singular constant or law or rule or fundamental on which everything else hinges. The central static, unchanging innately true point in the middle of the dynamic ever changing circle that revolves around it's authority/power.
Because, quite rationally, in order to have chaos, disorder, falsehood, deception, deceit, delusion, etc to their very extremes, the other side of that axis/spectrum or polarity "MUST" exist relative to such.
And that is called fundamental truth. It is absolute - the primary, fundamental, original, unchanging, the singular. The master, the incorruptible, the ultimate, a theory of everything (ToE).
This is not flawed. Our understanding of it is flawed. But we are tied to it through logic nevertheless. As logic permeates all things, it is the demonstration of truth in all interactions and phenomenon. The thing that ties all consistency together.
My claim, is that truth must, and does, tie the whole thing together (the universe). One singular constant or law or rule or fundamental on which everything else hinges. The central static, unchanging innately true point in the middle of the dynamic ever changing circle that revolves around it's authority/power.
Do we not just end up in the paradox of "the only objective truth is that there are no objective truths?"
Is not every point on a circle, a potential beginning and end of the circle? and does 'outside' of the circle you call 'ever changing' or 'dynamic,' have any meaning (especially for all existents ON/IN this 'circle?'
Reply to Jamal
I was thinking of a thread about the lyrics of 'protest songs' and music that people used to go into battle listening to etc. It came to me when I was listening to a song that in my youth, was one of the songs that focused my opinions on becoming fiercely anti-fascist and anti-racist. Hazel O'Connors 'Blackman':
I googled 'Is there a philosophy of music' and got:
From Wiki:
[b]Philosophy of music is the study of "fundamental questions about the nature of music and our experience of it". The philosophical study of music has many connections with philosophical questions in metaphysics and aesthetics. The expression was born in the 19th century and has been used especially as the name of a discipline since the 1980s.
Some basic questions in the philosophy of music are:
What is the definition of music? (what are the necessary and sufficient conditions for classifying something as music?)
What is the relationship between music and mind?
What is the relationship between music and language?
What does music history reveal to us about the world?
What is the connection between music and emotions? (in the 19th century a debate began over whether purely instrumental music could convey emotions and depict imaginary scenes)
What is meaning in relation to music?
Contributions to music philosophy have been made by philosophers, music critics, musicologists, music theorists, and other scholars.[/b]
Is there a reason why 'philosophy of music' was not included in the TPF categories when such as 'philosophy of art' is? Would a thread along the lines of my suggestion be a valid one for the main TPF front page?
Would a thread along the lines of my suggestion be a valid one for the main TPF front page?
I'm not sure I properly understand your suggestion, but sure, it would probably work in terms of sociology, psychology, cultural theory, and maybe musicology--and I guess philosophy of music too. However, if it's just for sharing videos and talking casually about how effective the lyrics are for forming opinions, then that would be a Lounge discussion.
Reply to Baden I'm not exactly sure why a monarchial Kantian canine is abdicating his throne to a spontaneously appearing being that is at the same time being brought to his death.
My assumption is that you're trying to convey some swirl in your head in an ambiguously artsy way that I cannot follow.
The cat has a cool mustache. Must be a gentlemog. Birds can't talk though unless they are parrots and that clearly isn't a parrot. Otherwise, it does make for a good summary of the Phenomenology of Spirit. So, I give it an American A- (= a European D+).
Reply to Hanover The simple way of explaining what’s wrong with that otherwise brilliant comic strip is that in the Hegelian dialectic you don’t oppose the cat with something extraneous, in this case the dog; no no, you find the contradiction within the cat. Furthermore, the path is more like abstract-negative-concrete. Thus, we are explicating concepts and moving towards the real, so we’re never starting with a cat.
So T Clark, you may have a point, since the Natural History Museum mention the "northern Caucasus region" which likely means the North Caucasus region, which does indeed extend to the Volga delta, where the European part of Kazakhstan is.
But since today’s nation-states didn’t exist when horses were invented, isn’t it better to say that horses were invented in, say, the Eurasian steppe (or whatever), rather than pinning it down anachronistically to a modern nation-state?
This is a direct contradiction of terms. Truth is unflawed by its very nature. If it were then it would not be truth. It would be false (flawed).
This is like that "rational" argument for God:
God is the greatest thing possible.
If God doesn't exist, it wouldn't be the greatest thing possible.
Therefore, God exists.
It's just playing with language and pretending it's real.
The existence of truth is a metaphysical question. Metaphysical positions are not true or false. They have no truth value. Do you really want to get involved in this here? I don't.
But since today’s nation-states didn’t exist when horses were invented, isn’t it better to say that horses were invented in, say, the Eurasian steppe (or whatever), rather than pinning it down anachronistically to a modern nation-state?
This seems like one of those pompous summary judgements I've been hearing about.
Do we not just end up in the paradox of "the only objective truth is that there are no objective truths?"
There is no "fundamentally objective truth" because "objects" change (are not fundamental). "objective things" are those that are finite, measurable, tangible and material. But they are never permanently static nor permanently measurable as all material changes in nature (transforms - either into other objects or into pure energy - heat, or change itself). Relativism between objects is the subjective nature of a dynamic of an ever changing reality.
What is objective is merely but a single set of the totality (total set) of truth - energy, space, time and consciousness (subjectivity) being other sets outside of that which is simply "objective" (material/matter/quantifiable).
There is however fundamental truth. It is not outright objective, because it is not material. It's conceptual. Relative. A space where one can not be limited by what they see and can measure, but rather what is logical/reasonable. That which includes what cannot be seen (the actor) or potential behind all things (matter) in motion through spacetime.
Is not every point on a circle, a potential beginning and end of the circle? and does 'outside' of the circle you call 'ever changing' or 'dynamic,' have any meaning (especially for all existents ON/IN this 'circle?'
Yes every point on an circle is an arbitrary beginning and end simultaneously. In essence it is endless, there is no beginning or end (as pi demonstrates as an integral relationship to it - irrational and endless).
For linear arguments we can assign a start and end arbitrarily (causality) but this leads to paradoxes in the extreme cases using linear argument - such as the grandfather paradox (of time), the liar paradox (of objective truth), Zenos paradox (of space), as really the circumference is not linear A-B but circular AAA'. It's only artificially taken as such. And applying linear argument to everything violates circularity.
No, the outside of the circle has no meaning. Because the energy required to be dynamic, is finite (cannot be created nor destroyed), thus there is an innate boundary or speed limit to change (lightspeed) and the circumference already represents this - pure irrationality and infinity in its circularity (infinite in quality or vector, but finite in quantity - distance to the center - radius). Anything approaching that boundary becomes ever more circumferential until it reaches perfect circularity and cannot exit that, whilst within the area of the circle it can as linear as you like (linear momentum of mass).
The "outside" only applies to circles drawn in 3D space. But the entire system as a circle prevents anything from going outside of total chaos/irrationality/change and reformulation (the circumference).
Thus the diagram/pictogram of a circle does not equal the laws of the universe. It is just used for illustrative purposes. Not to mention, a diagram is inaccurate as to draw a perfect circle we require pi to it's infinite decimal point, in which case the perfect circle can never be drawn. It is at most an inaccurate/incomplete representation of the truth.
But since today’s nation-states didn’t exist when horses were invented, isn’t it better to say that horses were invented in, say, the Eurasian steppe (or whatever), rather than pinning it down anachronistically to a modern nation-state?
They’re only horses if they’re from the Horse Peninsula region of Australia, otherwise they’re just sparkling cows.
Take this gibberish to the Lounge please. The dignity of the Shoutbox demands it.
May i ask, is it gibberish because I don't understand it. Or because you don't understand it?
I'm happy to elaborate on what I'm saying or coin it in a new way if it wasn't articulated clearly in a way you can evaluate. But that requires engagement rather than assignment of "gibberish" to it, an act of determination, or simply ending conversation, without option for further explanation.
Please just take it to the Lounge. That’s all I’m asking. I’m not answering your entirely predictable and silly questions directly
Alright. I understand you. We will leave it there then. I will not discuss things further and please forgive me if I went into seriousness too much if the Lounge is a place for lighthearted comical chat, I was merely answering universenesses genuine questions the best I could.
Please, please, this a place for food talk, comic strips and ironic perversions, not "understanding" things
That's fair Baden. I apologise for making the Lounge convo heavy. I will save these discussionsnfor the general forum in future. Thank you both for highlighting the categorical mistake I made in the nature of the discussion and it's place on the platform
By the way, Americans only say one R in drawing, as opposed to the Brits who say drawerings. They say that because they lack the American freedom to speak normal.
Reply to Jamal I think the main motivation is recruiting more minds to the problems of political economy, and not being averse to abstraction too. I also want it for myself. I feel like I only have a feel for dialectics, and dialectics is the part of Marx that's always bothered me. It seems like the part that's most subject to bullshit, basically. So I'm interested in lowering the potential for the abuse of dialectics.
Alright, so here's what I'm going to do for you, but I can't right now because I'm at work and would rather not waste that much time on this now, especially where people around might be able to hear me.
I'm going to post an audio file of the various ways that the word "drawer" might be said and from there we can discuss pronunciations more intelligently.
Reply to frank It was very rude, cruel, unkind, and thoughtless of you to stir up the matter of where horses evolved in the first place, before the vexing question was resolved about whether the horse was domesticated in the southern or northern Caucasian mountains, whether Kazakhstan had anything to do with it or not. and who gives a rat's ass either way? Now we have to parse out whether we are talking about the early, middle, or late Eocene epoch in North America, and whether we're including tri-toed horses with uni-ftoed horses. It will make the OK Corral look like a Sunday school picnic.
Unitoe or multitoe makes a difference. The modernist zebraisch horse walked on single fingertips. So, then the question becomes, how did they get from the grasslands of North America to the steppes of Central Asia? Who was responsible? Clearly they didn't swim -- at least they don't look sufficiently seal-like to get very far in deep water. Aliens moving species around just to confuse us later on? Not impossible!
The native North American horse was extinct by 10,000 years ago. Had the Native Americans domesticated Equus scotti instead of eating it, history would have been much different. They would then have had a reason to invent the wheel. Draft animals would have enabled the Aboriginals to develop industrially (what with all the great stands of timber, iron ore, and coal). They would have discovered and conquered the world. The sun would not have set on the Aztec Empire. Instead of the Eifel Tower we'd have a pyramid where Aztec priests would cut out the beating hearts of Frenchmen and roll them down the long stair steps. Is it too late for that?
It was very rude, cruel, unkind, and thoughtless of you to stir up the matter of where horses evolved in the first place, before the troubling question was resolved about whether the horse was domesticated in the southern or northern Caucasian mountains, whether Kazakhstan had anything to do with it or not. and who gives a rat's ass anyway?
I recently saw the Island of Dr Moreau with Marlon Brando. A for effort. C for being too old Hollywood.
Reply to frank I haven't seen any of the versions referenced. I did just now look up the plot and it seems pretty chaotic. Is the Christ figure with the fish a scene from the movie, or a random visual provided by Chatgpt?
I haven't seen any of the versions referenced. I did just now look up the plot and it seems pretty chaotic. Is the Christ figure with the fish a scene from the movie, or a random visual provided by Chatgpt?
It's my fish blessing upon you.
The movie version was going for insane/horrific. Didn't quite achieve either one.
In England they pronounce it kinda like "duhnce", but in Merican' we pronounce it "dense".
In Australia we pronounce it both ways - 'duhnce' and 'dense' and we use these pronunciations to determine who we will hire for a job. If you pronounce it in the shabby way (I'll leave it to you to determine which one that is) we pass on the applicant. Then all we need to do with the person who has the correct pronunciation, is check they are a Mason (quick handshake) and we are properly primed for successful recruitment.
Reply to Metaphysician Undercover The illustrator could have made this clearer. What you are thinking is the unitary horn of the unicorn is actually the horse's right ear. Besides that, the unicorn is a mythical beast, so they can not have found one.
James Thurber provides guidance on finding unicorns:
The Unicorn in the Garden by James Thurber
reprinted from
Fables For Our Time
Once upon a sunny morning a man who sat in a breakfast nook looked up from his scrambled eggs to see a white unicorn with a golden horn quietly cropping the roses in the garden. The man went up to the bedroom where his wife was still asleep and woke her. "There's a unicorn in the garden," he said. "Eating roses." She opened one unfriendly eye and looked at him.
"The unicorn is a mythical beast," she said, and turned her back on him. The man walked slowly downstairs and out into the garden. The unicorn was still there; now he was browsing among the tulips. "Here, unicorn," said the man, and he pulled up a lily and gave it to him. The unicorn ate it gravely. With a high heart, because there was a unicorn in his garden, the man went upstairs and roused his wife again. "The unicorn," he said,"ate a lily." His wife sat up in bed and looked at him coldly. "You are a booby," she said, "and I am going to have you put in the booby-hatch."
The man, who had never liked the words "booby" and "booby-hatch," and who liked them even less on a shining morning when there was a unicorn in the garden, thought for a moment. "We'll see about that," he said. He walked over to the door. "He has a golden horn in the middle of his forehead," he told her. Then he went back to the garden to watch the unicorn; but the unicorn had gone away. The man sat down among the roses and went to sleep.
As soon as the husband had gone out of the house, the wife got up and dressed as fast as she could. She was very excited and there was a gloat in her eye. She telephoned the police and she telephoned a psychiatrist; she told them to hurry to her house and bring a strait-jacket. When the police and the psychiatrist arrived they sat down in chairs and looked at her, with great interest.
"My husband," she said, "saw a unicorn this morning." The police looked at the psychiatrist and the psychiatrist looked at the police. "He told me it ate a lilly," she said. The psychiatrist looked at the police and the police looked at the psychiatrist. "He told me it had a golden horn in the middle of its forehead," she said. At a solemn signal from the psychiatrist, the police leaped from their chairs and seized the wife. They had a hard time subduing her, for she put up a terrific struggle, but they finally subdued her. Just as they got her into the strait-jacket, the husband came back into the house.
"Did you tell your wife you saw a unicorn?" asked the police. "Of course not," said the husband. "The unicorn is a mythical beast." "That's all I wanted to know," said the psychiatrist. "Take her away. I'm sorry, sir, but your wife is as crazy as a jaybird."
So they took her away, cursing and screaming, and shut her up in an institution. The husband lived happily ever after.
Moral: Don't count your boobies until they are hatched.
Besides that, the unicorn is a mythical beast, so they can not have found one.
There is nothing to prove that a myth must be false. Some of us maintain faith in the human power of discovery, to uncover what we always knew was there.
By the way, I really like your boobies.
Metaphysician UndercoverMay 06, 2023 at 11:47#8055870 likes
Reply to Hanover The 'southern' pronunciation of "dance" sounds altogether plausible, but the 'northern' pronunciation doesn't ring true to my ears. However, there are changes in vowel sound pronunciation (such as among young people <35) which might be happening. What I hear is the 'a' 'dance' rhyming with 'ants'. Which raises the question of whether one's father's sister is an "aunt" or an "ant".
And that's just within England. I think the Welsh and Scots are closer to the Northern pronunciation for the first example of “a”.
So all those videos that claim to show the British English pronunciation of "dance" or whatever, are bollocks, because they're obscuring the differences for convenience and representing the Southern English accent as the right one. The big British dictionaries do the same thing, because traditionally they take Received Pronunciation to be standard, even though RP is just a southern way of talking.
EDIT: But Scottish pronunciation is closer to Southern English with the second example of "u".
Well, first of all, very good explanations of the pronunciation of the word "dance" in different accents.
I do still think that the way you first referred to the (neutral)would be pronounced "daynce", with a very, very slight "y" sound. But, having said that, it does sound more "neutral" than the other ones, or it could just be me hearing funny.
Well dude you're going to starve waiting for a reply.
It's convenient at times to use recordings instead of typing things out. But truth is, the question it too difficult. Too many options, not enough data...
I was chastised for criticizing the lack of quality in the Shoutbox. This two page discussion about how to pronounce "dance" has certainly shown me how wrong I was.
Finally got around to listening to your mellifluous babbling. Great accent, colourful and folksy. That I will grant you. But you got “dance” wrong: Scots and northern English don’t say it like you said they say it. It’s possible you threw that in to rile me.
Since @T Clark apparently hates phonetics, preferring to argue pointlessly over central Asian geography specifically with respect to the domestication of horses, I’m happy to keep this “dance” chat going for many more pages.
If you liked the last, this should be more helpful
I hope all the other Shoutboxians listen to that, because it’s quite helpful. It’s like some sort of ultra-Scottish, or the Platonic ideal of Scottishness, one that mere Scots barely come close to.
I was chastised for criticizing the lack of quality in the Shoutbox.
I criticize the criticism you received for criticizing the crucial lack of quality in the Shoutbox.
I fully expect to be criticized (if not crucified) for this. This is not called The Playpen after all…
Since T Clark apparently hates phonetics, preferring to argue pointlessly over central Asian geography specifically with respect to the domestication of horses, I’m happy to keep this “dance” chat going for many more pages.
I thought you would appreciate more of my pompous summary judgements (PSJs).
I'm only angry because you didn't say "parking lot".
I thought that was clever. I'm going to do that from now on - find amusing ways to refer to that location without actually using the commonly used term. See how I did that?
Come on. Let's go out to that location where our automobiles are stored.
Why would you want to fight in a scrap yard?
It is cause in Britisher, a fight is called a scrap? Or is it because that just happen to be where your automobiles are 'stored?'
Why would you want to fight in a scrap yard?
It is cause in Britisher, a fight is called a scrap? Or is it because that just happen to be where your automobiles are 'stored?'
Reply to Baden
Nice car, deserves a place of admiration in any American parking lot.
Buy it and raise your self-confidence by the buying!
Don't know about the old guy in the crombie coat however. He at least looks like he might have good scrap value. Perhaps a whole civil list full of it!
Reply to Baden
Soon to be converted to electric cheddar power afaik!
Automobiles anyone would be proud to fight beside in a parking lot, even an American one.
Mehhhh. I think Rolls Royce downgraded once they decided to change the exteriors of the cars, this new version here is better than what they've had in prior years though. Those headlights are way too small.
I think the idea is to efficiently and effectively illuminate the road ahead and reduce the 'dazzle' on on-coming drivers.
Btw, my second car was a Daimler not a Bentley.
Once you're spending that much money on cars, are you really going to care about other people?
I am sure many Kings, past and present would agree with you.
Part of me is glad I could never afford such a beautiful car, lest I develop such monarchistic feelings towards 'other people.' :halo:
Which raises the question of whether one's father's sister is an "aunt" or an "ant".
That's somewhat slanted question you have there; a more equitable spelling would have been "aren't" or "ant" The Ulster version is two syllables though "agh-unt"
Edit: Sorry this should have gone in the "I Sam therefore I am" thread.
Edit: Sorry this should have gone in the "I Sam therefore I am" thread.
The above edit refers to a witticism that I accidentally deleted in the process of adding the explanatory edit. The comment itself is three pages late due to covid.
Excuse me! But when a chap's wife's writing is seriously compared with The Bible and Homer, a chap just has to brag about it on his philosophy forum. It's simply impossible not to.
The Ulster version is two syllables though "agh-unt"
My ancestors are from Ulster, but somewhere in their migration from Ulster to Minnesota they lost that particular language feature.
3 things: a) surveys show English pronunciation is becoming more varied, rather than less. At one time it was thought that media (radio, television, film) would homogenize the language. It didn't.
b) a vowel shift seems to be underway in some parts of the US. The soft 'o' (cock, rock, knock, Bach) in "block" is gradually shifting to a short 'e' sort of sound, as in tech, reck, heck, expect). So, "a walk around the block" now sounds like "a walk around the bleck". All this makes sense only if your pronunciation of cock and Bach is the same as mine. Otherwise it's just more mystification, of which there is already way too much.
c) There is a line through Iowa (among other places), north of which people "wash", south of which people warsh.
The intrusive R in “warsh” is most commonly associated with a dialect of American English known as the Midland dialect. The exact boundaries of the Midland dialect region vary from study to study, but all the analyses agree that covers most of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, and Missouri, as well as parts of Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, and Oklahoma.
Once you're spending that much money on cars, are you really going to care about other people?
It's probably just a question of scale and income and what you do to earn your money. John Lennon had mansions and Rolls Royces - did he care about others?
It's probably just a question of scale and income and what you do to earn your money. John Lennon had mansions and Rolls Royces - did he care about others?
I think Lennon was a complex character, and it's not entirely clear from what I've read that he lived up to the image he created. Nobody does though, so I don't think it important.
In any event, the correlation between poverty and righteousness is a particularly pervasive Christian concept that I think is hard for some to shake.
I do question someone's priorities and sense of meaning if he spends his life gathering toys, but I see nothing that signals immorality or lack of compassion or empathy if he does.
I do question someone's priorities and sense of meaning if he spends his life gathering toys, but I see nothing that signals immorality or lack of compassion or empathy if he does.
In any event, the correlation between poverty and righteousness is a particularly pervasive Christian concept that I think is hard for some to shake.
I do question someone's priorities and sense of meaning if he spends his life gathering toys, but I see nothing that signals immorality or lack of compassion or empathy if he does.
I’d like to make three points.
1. Asceticism
I was raised in a vaguely Calvinist milieu. My grandparents disapproved of luxury, fun, and freedom. The first stage of rebellion against this was my parents, but they were eaten up by guilt about it. The second stage is me: luxury, fun, and freedom are goods to be sought and cultivated without guilt. From a political point of view, and as Weber said, the Protestant ethic is associated more with the bourgeois order than with its critics, although I can’t deny that there is an unfortunate Puritan strand in socialism, which might be why I sometimes refuse the label “socialist”.
But there’s an important difference between the luxury and fun of a free life and mere acquisitiveness. Marx pointed this out when sarcastically describing bourgeois political economy:
[quote= Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844;https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm]Self-renunciation, the renunciation of life and of all human needs, is its principal thesis. The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being. Everything which the political economist takes from you in life and in humanity, he replaces for you in money and in wealth[/quote]
Collecting cool cars has a bit of both: enjoyment of life and acquisitiveness. In any case, I’m always suspicious, and for reasons of personal history feel a rising anger, when people criticize the rich for their profligacy rather than for their meanness. I feel an affinity with people who buy lots of stuff: paradoxically, there’s a spirit of generosity in it. A generous abandonment to pleasure.
2. The source of morality itself in Christian poverty and powerlessness
Nietzsche was even more radical. In his magnificent account, the very concept of morality we have in Western culture comes out of the resentment felt by the poor, powerless early Christians. Their love and goodness is a self-applied compensation for the bitterness they feel towards those who are having a good time.
So, combining Marx and Nietzsche we can celebrate the luxurious enjoyment of life and reject the resentful ascription of immorality to people with lots of cars.
3. Nick Mason has lots of great cars and he’s not only a nice guy but also the drummer of Pink Floyd.
My grandparents disapproved of luxury, fun, and freedom.
My father's ethic, the best I could understand it, was that luxury items were created largely as part of a ruse to convince you to want something you didn't really want so that you'd spend extra money on it.
He never said that because he didn't believe in explaining things, but based upon an assessment of his various absolute rules, I think that provides an understanding of his beliefs.
What this meant was that the gullible had the luxury items, but the wise were not so deceived. I adopted this belief early on, but have gotten better about setting it aside, and it's been freeing to do that.
One thing I can say that did help me is that I do have a reduced appreciation for nicer things, which has resulted in saving large sums of money and avoiding the country club sorts of trappings common among my peer group. I can maintain a sense of superiority as they eat their filet minion and I eat my meatloaf.
This philosophy also keeps me from being a slave to the man, even if I actually am the man under any reasonable definition of "the man. " There's a certain freedom in being able to tell someone you don't want their bling, even if there's a certain loss in having no bling.
See the last few posts between Baden and me. This is the kind of quality discussion I think really belongs here in the Shoutbox.
I unironically agree with you. Creative banter is the substance of the Shoutbox. Every witty retort is a brick in this glorious temple of tomfoolery. Every vulgar anecdote is a decorative mural adorning this cathedral of clowning.
As you know, my comment was ironic, actually doubly so. First, it was ironic in the obvious way - using a trivial, silly conversation as an example of high quality discourse. Secondly, in counterpoint to that, the discussion about alternative terms for p..., well, you know, was less tedious than the interminable back and forth about the pronunciation of "dance." There, another PSJ for you.
My problem with rich people doesn't have anything to do with all their money and the silly things they spend it on. I'm certainly not rich, but I have enough money to have a comfortable retirement knowing I can help my children if they need it. All the while, not being "the man," not having economic, political, legal, or social power over others.
What bothers me is that they want it both ways. They want to be cool, everyday guys. Friendly with their baristas and mechanics. Eating cheeseburgers from In and Out Burger. Clarence Thomas claimed that he had modest tastes and enjoyed everyman holidays.
But then, whenever any important advantage is on the line, using their privilege and power to make sure their interests win out over us hoi polloi. Say what you will about John Lennon, but he lived in one of the most expensive addresses in Manhattan but then wanted to be able to walk the streets like Joe sixpack. He found out, briefly, that was a bad idea.
I'm sure he did, his actions proved that. It was a very general remark on a tendency, not an absolute.
Roger Waters is also filthy rich and owns expensive cars, but he does some very very good humanitarian work and activism, which has gotten him into quite serious trouble. So there are all kinds.
Sure. From personal experience, living in several countries, I do think this not caring of the super wealthy has some merit to it, but it is far from being a universal.
There's a world of difference between say, Jeff Bezos and say, a much loved rock star, you can think of several.
I agree, there is pleasure to be gotten in material things, sometimes quite a lot. But it shouldn't be the focus of your existence to flaunt wealth for the sake of it. I do think Aston Martin's are beautiful, Mercedes Benz, in general, are more problematic in my experience.
I spent some time with some Swiss watch people in Monaco
Incidentally, they had no interest in or knowledge of watchmaking or the history of watches. I suppose they were just the ungrateful brats of the family.
This just in... termites have both a king and a queen. A king is needed in termite castles because the queen can't store a lifetime's worth of sperm. like queen bees can. She has to be, ah, serviced daily. Both the King and The Queen are bigger than everybody else in the castle, they also live longer--up to 20 years. The winged King and Queen share the household tasks of caring for their young until they have enough termite cadre to take care of everything. Then their wings fall off and they live in a special chamber.
Termites are social cockroaches, basically. In what ways are human royalty like cockroaches?
Termites are social cockroaches, basically. In what ways are human royalty like cockroaches?
It’s a little known fact that Prince Edward has six legs, enjoys dark and humid conditions, and occasionally consumes his own fecal pellets.
Unpopular opinion: the widespread and self-consciously socialist disdain for Charles’s coronation that I’ve met with so much recently is an expression of the deathly bourgeois spirit of instrumental rationality rather than anything more emancipatory. It’s a recrudescence of the late medieval merchant’s hatred of the nobility.
Reply to Jamal Well, they do have the stage and all of the props to put on really plush displays of privilege and wealth, I suppose it's hard to resist. And some people (not just Brits) really like to watch this stuff. It would be preferable for the royals to pay for their pomp and circumstances out of their personal pockets.
The Windsors as members of the British oligarchy are as objectionable as all the other plutocrats in every country everywhere.
Should they be done away with? Sure, along with the rest of the ruling class. To the extent that they have entertainment value, they have some meagre purpose. But England can have parades, processions, and pomp without the royals.
Creative banter is the substance of the Shoutbox. Every witty retort is a brick in this glorious temple of tomfoolery. Every vulgar anecdote is a decorative mural adorning this cathedral of clowning.
It’s a little known fact that Prince Edward has six legs, enjoys dark and humid conditions, and occasionally consumes his own fecal pellets.
Interesting. I conclude from this personal insight that said individual is not a gentleman. A gentleman never employs an excess of lower limbs even on the most strenuous of perambulations nor does he endure ambient moisture levels consistent with perspiration, and while in extreme circumstances he may partake of a fecal pellet or two, he certainly does not make an occasion of it.
I think that's a twist on the truth - I heard he likes to lie under a glass coffee table and watch people shit on him from above
Hm, he is perhaps not such a bad sort after all. Of course, it would largely depend on the calibre of the aforementioned furnishing. When a gentleman is shat on he must through the glass see clearly.
I’m always suspicious, and for reasons of personal history feel a rising anger, when people criticize the rich for their profligacy rather than for their meanness
I sill feel horrible somewhere deep inside when I catch images of starving children on my tv and I also catch a glimpse of my two (probably unnecessary) expensive, lord of the rings chess sets and my £80 each, set of 6, pewter, Arthurian drinking goblets, that I got from 'Franklin Mint,' when it existed.
I normally sate myself by internally saying, 'I never made this freakin world!!!'
But I never feel right about the situation, so ....... on we go!
I had a friend once who owned a few Glasgow Disco's and pubs and a taxi company.
He was pretty well off. He said a very strange thing to me once.
"I love buying fancy new cars. I love that new car smell. I wait until I have eaten and drank a lot and I have a good fartfest going. I put on my cool tight shorts, go into my new car and spend a good hour or so building up and letting go the best and loudest farts I can. I LOVE doing that!"
Any philosophical/psychological analysis of that approach to possessing new fancy cars?
I sill feel horrible somewhere deep inside when I catch images of starving children on my tv and I also catch a glimpse of my two (probably unnecessary) expensive, lord of the rings chess sets and my £80 each, set of 6, pewter, Arthurian drinking goblets, that I got from 'Franklin Mint,' when it existed.
I normally sate myself by internally saying, 'I never made this freaking world!!!'
But I never feel right about the situation, so ....... on we go!
I know what you mean. I'm not defending the conspicuous consumption of the rich so much as criticizing the psychological or ideological source of many of its critics. In other words, I'm just being difficult. This itself might be a sign that I'm trying to set myself up as holier than thou. :chin:
But my central point still looks good, and it's reflected by your own reflections: it's not having nice things that's the problem, but the fact that not everyone can have nice things.
I had a friend once who owned a few Glasgow Disco's and pubs and a taxi company.
He was pretty well off. He said a very strange thing to me once.
"I love buying fancy new cars. I love that new car smell. I wait until I have eaten and drank a lot and I have a good fartfest going. I put on my cool tight shorts, go into my new car and spend a good hour or so building up and letting go the best and loudest farts I can. I LOVE doing that!"
Any philosophical/psychological analysis of that approach to possessing new fancy cars?
Yes. If I were to analyze his behaviour I would start out by examining the way in which even the wealthy, in a postmodern bureaucratic society, are forced to express their lives in isolation, taking escapist pleasure in the most basic animal ways in a pocket of privacy.
I would start out by examining the way in which even the wealthy, in a postmodern bureaucratic society, are forced to express their lives in isolation, taking escapist pleasure in the most basic animal ways in a pocket of privacy.
I wish I would have used that response to him when he told me the story, but he would have probably got some of his bouncers to hold me down whilst he sat on my head and farted!
But my central point still looks good, and it's reflected by your own reflections: it's not having nice things that's the problem, but the fact that not everyone can have nice things.
I don't like this quote. It feels spoiled, like I'm supposed to care if you can't have the newest cell phone, fast car, or whatever gadget. As if that deprivation is a meaningful sort of suffering I need to pay attention to and worry about. Woe is you for your lack of bling. It sounds like something a millennial might say.
Happiness is not achieved from the collection of things, so I have no concern if you're missing those things. And I'm not talking about those people who are truly deprived or who are struggling to make ends meet, but I'm talking about those people who can't afford the latest and best out there.
The way out of the capitalistic, consumer driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
Reply to Hanover I wasn't entirely satisfied with what I said, so I kind of agree with you. Don't interpret the comment uncharitably; it had an essential context. I'm not suggesting that human flourishing is just about having stuff, which should be clear from the post that universeness was responding to.
The way out of the capitalistic, consumer driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on the all addictive substances it offers.
Personally speaking, sure, that's kind of what I do. I wasn't really talking about what to do about it personally.
Personally speaking, sure, that's kind of what I do. I wasn't really talking about what to do about it personally.
Might then the unspoken judgment you decree upon others be that you think their lavish lifestyle is evidence of shallowness?
I think that's where I am, but then I wonder if I'm not just the fool Nietzsche describes who adheres to a slave morality. I ended up here despite my lack of adherence to that religious doctrine, but instead I convinced myself of its validity by intellectual means, making me even more the fool. I actually arrived at a logical basis to suppress my consumption of the finer things and have then handed it over to the ruling class.
For me to escape this criticism, I truly have to subscribe to the idea that happiness is not acquired through wealth. I think I'm good with that notion. In my own life, I do not correlate times of happiness with times of wealth. They seem entirely unrelated, so I think I can avoid the Nietzschean bitch slap and remain the Uberhanover expected of me.
Reply to Jamal
We were not comparing those who own 6 fancy pewter goblets with those who own a fleet of fancy cars.
There are many humans who are conflicted when they see that some folks don't even have the basics to merely survive. Such people WILL be bothered by their own 'probably unnecessary' possessions at such moments. That was the basis of our exchange. I don't consider a person that can only afford a jaguar and cant afford a Rolls Royce Phantom, deprived.
The way out of the capitalistic, consumer driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
That's like saying:
The way out of the criminal, drug driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
Capitalism sooooooooo needs to be 'torn down and replaced,' then less children per day will die because they and their family are too poor to live.
That's like saying:
The way out of the criminal, drug driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
That is exactly what I would say.
Attack the demand, not the supply, but accept that there will always be those who make poor choices. That is the consequence of freedom, which is far superior to trying to control the population.
A significant factor in happiness is being able to resist the injunction to enjoy. Which is somewhat tricky if you can't afford the stuff to not enjoy. The addictive substance is enjoyment itself.
I'm for unenjoying. Try listening to a record you like and deliberately not enjoying it while focusing on it completely. That'll get you in the groove.
A significant factor in happiness is being able to resist the injunction to enjoy. Which is somewhat tricky if you can't afford the stuff to not enjoy. The addictive substance is enjoyment itself.
So to sort this out, I cannot enjoy the lack of a heroin addiction unless I've been able to first enjoy heroin so that I can now enjoy not enjoying it.
That sounds correct. I will now find a good vein and shoot up, which I expect to be amazing, but not nearly as amazing as tomorrow when I control my urges and don't shoot up.
That is the consequence of freedom, which is far superior to trying to control the population.
I don't advocate for controlling the minds of the population and dictating their rights and protections (or lack of). I advocate for a fair global economic system. Do you think people who have little or no access to the basic means of survival have any 'freedom' to choose anything? If I posted a picture of starving children here, with a caption that said 'freedom of choice,' what would you make of it?
I think that's where I am, but then I wonder if I'm not just the fool Nietzsche describes who adheres to a slave morality. I ended up here despite my lack of adherence to that religious doctrine, but instead I convinced myself of its validity by intellectual means, making me even more the fool. I actually arrived at a logical basis to suppress my consumption of the finer things and have then handed it over to the ruling class.
For me to escape this criticism, I truly have to subscribe to the idea that happiness is not acquired through wealth. I think I'm good with that notion. In my own life, I do not correlate times of happiness with times of wealth. They seem entirely unrelated, so I think I can avoid the Nietzschean bitch slap and remain the Uberhanover expected of me.
Impressive analysis, submitting yourself to a kind of immanent critique, knowing that only the foolish philosophers imagine they can stand outside of it all and view oneself and the world with a pure objectivity.
In other news, I got a deshedding glove that you use to pet your cat and it removes the extra fur. I got enough fur off to make a whole new cat, which I named Shed, not to be confused with Fred. I just dropped her off at the vet to get spayed because I'm a responsible cat owner.
knowing that only the foolish philosophers imagine they can stand outside of it all and view oneself and the world with a pure objectivity.
Yeah, and don't forget that the rich man can buy a lot of bouncers, who will say to you, me and even a Hanoverian. Feck you all and your 'consequences of freedom,' 'smell this,' as his army holds us all down, whilst he sits of each of our head's in turn and farts long and loud.
You either fight the supply and the demand or you learn to enjoy the smell of the rich mans farts!
I'm for unenjoying. Try listening to a record you like and deliberately not enjoying it while focusing on it completely. That'll get you in the groove.
Is the point to be able to engage with it more actively or something? A curious thing has happened to me that might be relevant. A while ago I read Crash. I didn't enjoy it and I wrote a short and sniffy review of it, but since then its presence in my mind has grown like a tumour and it seems to have sent me on a mad philosophical journey into modernity and postmodernity. I don't agree that enjoyment and entertainment are shallow (Beckett is fun), but I can't deny that something that's not enjoyable can be powerful.
Do you think people who have no little or no access to the basic means of survival have any 'freedom' to choose anything? If I posted a picture of starving children here, with a caption that said 'freedom of choice,' what would you make of it?
This is an interesting example of the Motte/Bailey analysis @Jamal discussed in a recent thread. Since you don't want to admit the difficulty in your position which is that some of those who lack luxuries are not wanting for basic needs and are therefore not in need of sympathy, you divert and start talking about those who don't have basic needs, which is an obvious part of your position, and it is something to which I admitted earlier on and did sympathize with.
Is the point to be able to engage with it more actively or something?
Yes, to kind of be with it. Don't let the enjoyment "go to your head". It is hard to explain but it's something akin to being aware of how your body is reacting at a visceral level rather than forgetting it in the pleasure of something.
There's more to be said on your experience with "Crash'' and Beckett etc. Will likely come back to this but I feel too close to being serious and more in need of some clowning which I do enjoy despite myself.
Do a reverso on this and use it in your dialectic cartoon.
Or maybe I'll deshed Shed and name the new entity Shed, Jr., and then I'll discuss essences, as in, at one point in time did Shed become Shed, Jr. and do they two have distinct identies, despite Shed disappearing at the appearance of Shed, Jr.
Since you don't want to admit the difficulty in your position which is that some of those who lack luxuries are not wanting for basic needs and are therefore not in need of sympathy
My sympathy will not meet the needs of the people I refer to. I am not referring to those who cant afford a Rolls Royce Phantom but can afford a lesser car. The difficulty you assign to my position is from your own imaginings. Those who I refer to cannot eat or drink your sympathy either.
Do what you can, when you can to help, that's all and stop supporting capitalism, as that makes you part of the problem.
My sympathy will not meet the needs of the people I refer to. I am not referring to those who cant afford a Rolls Royce Phantom but can afford a lesser car. The difficulty you assign to my position is from your own imaginings. Those who I refer to cannot eat or drink your sympathy either.
Do what you can, when you can to help, that's all and stop supporting capitalism, as that makes you part of the problem.
Again, you're not arguing against any position that has been asserted. You're just telling me what a fine man you are in how you look after the less fortunate.
The discussion was about whether the lack of luxury was of my concern, and it's not, so long as the basic needs are met.
Yes, to kind of be with it. Don't let the enjoyment "go to your head". It is hard to explain but it's something akin to being aware of how your body is reacting at a visceral level rather than forgetting it in the pleasure of something.
That so reminds me of having sex on acid; orgasm becomes an entirely voluntary response.
You're just telling me what a fine man you are in how you look after the less fortunate.
Ok, you can see it that way if you wish. I assume that you also assume that I see the capitalist supporting you, as less than the description of me, you offer, and that's ok too.
Impressive analysis, submitting yourself to a kind of immanent critique, knowing that only the foolish philosophers imagine they can stand outside of it all and view oneself and the world with a pure objectivity.
The counter problem to this is resigning yourself to the idea that you can never know the truth because you will always be mired in your own subjective limitations. Under that criticism, the only solution would be to locate that elusive view from nowhere that isn't stuck in whatever perspective you happen to have. I think the view from nowhere solution is to accept there are limitations in knowing objectively and accepting a certain degree of subjectivity, but then exposing that to as much analysis as possible.
Maybe that's what Nagel was getting at. I didn't read the whole book and it was a while ago, but your comments reminded me of that.
What we have to think about here is, will all of this chat reach T Clark's high standards?
I am very impressed with the quality of the last several pages of discourse. Farting as a Marxist metaphor for the evils of capitalism - philosophy at its finest.
Reply to Hanover That’s along the lines of what I was saying, yes. But I was suggesting a specific solution: immanent critique, or whatever that would be called when applied to the self rather than society. Critiquing yourself from your own standpoint. The point of immanent critique in critical theory is to critically examine society without attempting to stand above society, to begin with the premises supplied by what appears and work through the contradictions to reach an understanding of the whole from within. That fits with your proposal and seemed to be what you were doing. I’m boring myself now.
Farting as a Marxist metaphor for the evils of capitalism - philosophy at its finest.
I think the image of the King farting on the individual heads of the poorly paid workers, whilst being held down by the Kings minions, was almost demonstrated in our wonderfully, brilliant, outstanding (great) Britain on Saturday past, when rather than help pay the workers a decent wage. The government made us pay £100 million, during a cost of living crisis so that a silly old man could sit on a fancy chair and wear a meaningless bauble on his head. The leaders of the protesters were even arrested to prepare them properly for the farting!
Here’s where I am with this. I watched the coronation and enjoyed the spectacle. It’s an event that’s been happening every few decades for a thousand years. It’s a rare intrusion of the medieval into disenchanted postmodernity. To see the religious rituals of divine blessing upon the monarch that once were believed in by all the participants—to see them still performed and believed in now basically by nobody involved—this is fascinating.
Also, in the context of disenchanted bureaucratic bourgeois postmodernity, where everything must be useful and cost-effective, useless, wasteful, and ridiculous extravagance is actually very unusual now. I found this weirdly exciting.
At the same time, I entirely agree with you. So I’m not saying I positively approve. I love it and hate it at the same time.
Pinned down on the issue I’ll say I’m a republican, but I’m not in the mood to be pinned down.
A logical 'Spock' response and well done in controlling your emotions in true Vulcan style.
I felt more like getting all 'William Wallace' on their Kings arse and turning it into a 'lifetime' bag for holding my currently outrageous electricity/gas bills.
I have always been a republican when it comes to monarchy and I don't like being pinned down either, but it's the only way those rich, elitist barstardicks get to fart on my fecking head.
I was a royalist till the age of five, when, as I was standing with my grandmother outside Holyrood Palace, the Queen’s Rolls Royce came rolling out of the gate and through a deep puddle, splashing my new shoes, my bare legs (I was kilted), and my best white wool socks with muddy water. From that moment I swore to fight the royals with everything I could muster. I’ve mellowed since then.
Reply to Jamal
You would have been even more annoyed had you saw the MI5 footage of the Queen, in her Roller, bent over, holding her sides in uncontrollable guffaw style laughter, at splashing a peasant.
I think under government national security guidelines, the footage cannot be released to youtube for another 20 years.
Btw just to be sure, that by declaring myself a republican, I don't mean I supported the IRA (I was told by my father when I was young, that we were protestants and I have been protesting that label ever since!) or I would vote for Trump if I were American. It's just a NOT MY KING, position.
Don't you think that Queen Camilla sounds like a posh American rap artist?
All power to Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.
What a cool island nation of progressives!
Maybe they will drop the 'saint' as well as Charlie, eventually!
@BC
I came across info on the internet about 'polari' and its use in days gone by, by gay folks?
Is it true? and is what it said 'naff' stands for, true? As a child I used that word often!!! :rofl:
Polari: a form of slang incorporating Italianate words, rhyming slang, and Romani, used originally as a kind of secret language in England by people in theatres, fairgrounds, markets, etc. and adopted by some gay people in the 20th century.
Beyond a historian's reference, nothing. "Naff" is British slang, never heard that either.
Is British English a richer 'slanguage' than American English? Seems like it might be. If so, why? Is it because GB has more strong dialects? Because class differences in GB are much more strongly delineated? Because the school systems are different? Some American slang comes from black dialect, which is a strong dialect (and exists in urban settings). Appalachian English is a strong English dialect, but it isn't common in urban areas, so transfer doesn't happen very often.
"From the getgo" is an example of black slang that became a common phrase. Here are a few Appalachian slang terms:
Blind House – Windowless cabin
Blockading – Making illegal whiskey or moonshine
Booger – Ghost
Boomer – Red squirrel
Gaum – A mess
Granny Woman – Midwife
He-balsam – Spruce tree
She-balsam – Fir tree
Jag – Small amount
* Lick – To hit with a hammer or axe
Painter – Mountain lion
* Poke – Small bag
Poor Do – Boiled cornmeal
Shamp – To cut hair
* Simples – Medicinal herbs
Slaunchwise – Crooked, sideways, slanting diagonally
Slick-faced – Without a beard
Sorry – Something of little or no value
‘Tater Hole – cold cellar under the cabin floor where foods are stored [called a 'root cellar' in the Midwest, New England]
* Wish Book – Mail-order catalog
* Varmint – Wild animal
Reply to BC
Well, it certainly seems that english gay men had a whole communication system I knew nothing about, even I used some of the terms often without knowing their true meaning.
In Polari, a gay man may say about a heterosexual man, that he is naff.
This was a warning to other gay folks who would know that meant he was Not Available For Fucking! :rofl:
I used to use that word a lot as a child to express that I found a family members idea or a friends new trousers as NAFF! as I thought that meant 'not cool' or 'not very good.' :rofl: Have a look at this!
This gives a full list of Polari terms including my example of NAFF.
:lol: Not like that. I just want you to put your relatively massive American frame between my puny European body and the Welsh dragon so I can run away.
Reply to universeness Some of the argot in the list was standard in 1971 when I started going to bars.
basket, the bulge of male genitals through clothes (bigger = better)
bod, body
bold, daring (in general use)
butch, masculine; masculine lesbian
camp, adjective, noun, and verb, effeminate; high camp, low camp
chicken, young boys
chicken hawk, pursues young boys (teenagers)
dish, an attractive male; also to gossip
dizzy, scatterbrained (in general use)
fruit, queen
gelt, yiddish term for money
glossies, magazines (if printed on glossy paper, otherwise pulp)
hoofer, dance (show business term)
meshigener, nutty, crazy, mental Yiddish term
mince, walk (affectedly)
Here’s where I am with this. I watched the coronation and enjoyed the spectacle. It’s an event that’s been happening every few decades for a thousand years. It’s a rare intrusion of the medieval into disenchanted postmodernity. To see the religious rituals of divine blessing upon the monarch that once were believed in by all the participants—to see them still performed and believed in now basically by nobody involved—this is fascinating.
Also, in the context of disenchanted bureaucratic bourgeois postmodernity, where everything must be useful and cost-effective, useless, wasteful, and ridiculous extravagance is actually very unusual now. I found this weirdly exciting.
I'd go along with this. Except the 'weirdly exciting' part. I found it intermittently amusing. My partner made me watch it as she is one of those republicans who finds royalty interesting. I've never cared enough to seek a republic here in Australia. No one really gives a shit about the royals and I wonder about the considerable expense and administrative, political catastrophe we'd make of any transition if we dismantle our bit of the Commonwealth. We have more important social priorities like health and housing.
That whole style of broadcast comedy depicted in the video never flew in the US. There's often a cultural gulf between various countries' idea of funny.
Slang used as a cover or camouflage is an outsider's understanding. Polari would work more as a passport than a disguise. After all, one couldn't use it profitably unless one's interlocutor also understood it. So, dropping a few words of slang is an invitation to a stranger to respond in kind -- if interested -- or look confused. Even in these enlightened times, it might be safer to try a bit of verbal diplomacy rather than just reaching out and groping a guy.
To have watched the coronation would have been like watching a stranger's extravagant wedding. I would have appreciated the effort and the couple's excitement, but I'd have ultimately not cared.
Those examples of Polari reminded me of Nadsat, the argot used in A Clockwork Orange, though in Nadsat a lot of the words are Russian, while the sources for Polari are Italian, Yiddish, rhyming slang, and Romani.
Reply to Hanover I watched maybe 20 minutes of rerun. "Extravagant wedding" is a good way of putting it. King Charles is clearly tired, no fault of his -- waiting decades for your mother-predecessor to die so that you can get on with it has to be utterly exhausting. I understand his suffering. I hate waiting in a check out line with more the 1 person in front of me.
Reply to T Clark You mean 'behind the bike sheds'? I stopped smoking years ago, thanks. Anyway, I'm isolating because of the covid.Perhaps offer our honourable pugilistic friend a small libation of cooking spirit to assuage his demons somewhat. The burdens of high office seem to be weighing heavy on him at present.
There has been a bit of resistance in the UK to the extravagant cosplay of old white males attended by frantic flag-waving, demonstrating the role of religion in supporting power and privilege and vice versa.
CharlesI lost his crown and then his head; CharlesII regained his crown and kept his head; the third Charles pays for all.
For us romantics, it is a matter of honour – or rather dishonour. We remember the previous cosplay, the fairytale wedding of Prince Charles the awkward to his golden virgin bride, Diana the innocent. And how, an heir and a spare of guaranteed purity of blood later, Diana, the broodmare and most popular icon to the flag-waving masses since publicity began, was demoted to second fiddle to the wicked stepmother to be - Camila.
Charles has broken the rules of fairyland. He gave up his true love to marry the fairy princess, and then abandoned the fairy bride and took back his first love. He now has an enemy in fairyland in the shape of Diana's brother, and king of the fairies, and his own son Young Harry the innocent and brave seeking his fortune in the wide world. No believer in fairytales can accept the triumph of Charles for a moment. It doesn't make moral sense.
And if you don't believe in fairytales, you are left with a display of empty ritual by a bunch of venal and cynical old men trying to manipulate the world with mumbo-jumbo, and looking ridiculous.
Reply to Baden You're just another cynical old man going through the motions. What you think is therefore of no consequence. But when fairyland is invoked, and the spell is woven, you have to play by fairyland rules. And that rule says that Harry is the rightful King, and the corrupt king and wicked stepmother, and boorish older brother must be deposed. And they cannot make the mumbo-jumbo say different, halfway through the story.
basket, the bulge of male genitals through clothes (bigger = better)
The 'basket' one got me thinking back to my younger years and asking 'did I ever hear a man quip to another man, look! nice basket! ' :lol: NOW, I would be complimented, especially now I understand it, back then, if I would have understood it, I would have shown them my NAFF card! :yikes:
I knew camp and mincing when I was young and I used them as insulting references to 'gayness,' but I never knew camp, started as KAMP or Known As Male Prostitute.
'Chicken' for young boy is a strange one. Older women in the Savoy disco (a quite famous/infamous Glasgow city centre night club, that was my main haunt, from about 18 to 40 years old) used to refer to younger guys as chickens. It seems women knew much more Polari than us dumb het cis men :rofl:
Sorry for the overuse of emoticons, but this has just added to my thoughts about my youth in Glasgow in a nice, fun but self-reflective way. I was quite anti-gay folks in my younger days and saw them as lesser than I. I was not kind towards folks I thought were gay.
The 'coolness' of something like Polari and the fact I knew NOTHING about it, demonstrates to me that my early opinions of gay folks were so misplaced that I am now rather ashamed, looking back at that aspect of who I was.
Those examples of Polari reminded me of Nadsat, the argot used in A Clockwork Orange, though in Nadsat a lot of the words are Russian, while the sources for Polari are Italian, Yiddish, rhyming slang, and Romani.
As a young trendy disco guy in your youth in Scotland, did you know about stuff like Polari or did you have less of a misspent youth than I? and would consider the main title my sisters used to assign to me of 'idiot savoy boy!' Insulting, rather than as I saw it, a badge of honour.
That whole style of broadcast comedy depicted in the video never flew in the US. There's often a cultural gulf between various countries' idea of funny.
Yep I don't think any of the 'carry on' films were well received in America.
You did have your 'Liberace.'
But I don't think characters like Kenneth Williams or Danny La Rue did well with the American audiences of the time:
I do like the notion of street kid or youth based comm codes. Do you remember the 'eggy' language used in Scottish schools or were you too young and missed that one?
and his own son Young Harry the innocent and brave seeking his fortune in the wide world.
I have no intent to spread bad and untrue rumours, :scream: BUT, many folks still think that Harry is in fact the son of James Hewitt. His tryst with Diana is accepted fact and Harry looks much more like him that he looks like Charles. If I suddenly die in an unexpected car crash ....... just saying!
I was not aware of Polari until I read about it some time in the early twentieth century, although I think I'd heard it before, probably from Kenneth Williams.
I think we had some sort of secret lingo in primary school but I can't recall if it was egg-based.
Reply to Beena Hi Beena and welcome. I deleted it because it was too religious. We do have a philosophy of religion section but we tend not to allow discussions that uncritically assume the truth of religion from the outset.
...you are left with a display of empty ritual by a bunch of venal and cynical old men trying to manipulate the world with mumbo-jumbo, and looking ridiculous.
That's the part I like. It seems oddly similar to TPF. Strange, some of us like looking ridiculous ... bring on The Flying Circus.
I have noticed in certain threads, that Americans in particular keep using the term 'bathroom' to mean a toilet in a pub/restaurant. Do some pub toilets in America have baths in them?? :halo:
Reply to universeness I sometimes use that now, although “toilet” is “tualet” in Russian, which is convenient.
The thing is, a toilet can be the WC itself or the room, so if I’m talking specifically about the room, “bathroom” works. At least I don’t say “restroom” or “comfort station”.
Toilet from the French, toilette – washing
Lavatory from the Latin lavatorium - washing room.
Conveniences from the Latin convenir – to come together. From the good old days when 2 and 3 holers were commonplace.
And if you don't, the ladies and the good doctors and I all urge that you should, after every visit to the stool depository and liquid evacuation station; naming the facilities is not enough.
Reply to Jamal
Whaddya mean bathroom works, when there aint no bath in the room pilgrim!!!!
At least with 'lavvy' we have:
lavatory (n.)
late 14c., "washbasin," from Late Latin lavatorium "place for washing," noun use of neuter of Latin adjective lavatorius "pertaining to washing," from lavat-, past participle stem of lavare "to wash," from PIE root *leue- "to wash." Sense of "washroom" is first attested 1650s; as a euphemism for "toilet, W.C.," it is attested by 1864. Related: Lavatorial.
Washbasinroom? instead of bathroom? Or WBroom or WCroom, I hate 'little boys room' that's just creepy. I like cludgie, it sounds very Scottish!
Were you ever drunk enough that you walked in to the 'ladies' toilet because you thought it was, or you couldn't spell, 'laddies.' The angry women in the toilet at the time, seem very reluctant to accept that reason!!!
Reply to Jamal
No, I tended to call them 'gregories' in ra Glesga banter mode. One of my main auld one liners to annoy and sometime get a giggle out of barmaids did involve glasses however.
When they placed my ordered bottles of beer on the bar, they would often ask "d ye want glessees wi thame?" to which I would respond 'naw yer ah right doll, ah can see them fine!'
When they placed my ordered bottles of beer on the bar, they would often ask "d ye want glessees wi thame?" to which I would respond 'naw yer ah right doll, ah can see them fine!'
Quite good. I have some one-liners. I got them from my father and when I use them, it’s as if I have no choice in the matter, like he’s speaking through me from beyond. Beyond the North Sea.
Quite good. I have some one-liners. I got them from my father and when I use them, it’s as if I have no choice in the matter, like he’s speaking through me from beyond. Beyond the North Sea.
A good example of comedy that does or does not translate is Jerry Lewis. He was popular here with a lot of people (and disliked by others) but apparently he was also very popular in France. I've always thought that very strange. Maybe they liked the physicality of his comic style. On the other hand, the gay German comedy Taxi Zum Clo (Taxi to the Toilet) was more interesting than hilarious. The style of humor didn't travel well.
I have noticed in certain threads, that Americans in particular keep using the term 'bathroom' to mean a toilet in a pub/restaurant. Do some pub toilets in America have baths in them??
What to call it, what to call it? We are a bit skittish about bodily functions, and require euphemisms. "Bathroom" covers a variety of possible personal care activities, and doesn't focus on the urination and defecation specificity of the "urinal" or "toilet bowl". So, washroom, bathroom, lavatory. "Lavatory" was the term used in elementary and secondary schools.
Quite good. I have some one-liners. I got them from my father and when I use them, it’s as if I have no choice in the matter, like he’s speaking through me from beyond. Beyond the North Sea.
It's the unavoidable process of us becoming our parents.
Weird Al is amusing mostly for the fact that he exists rather than for anything he does. I think it has something to do with quantum mechanics. Yankovic's humor is sort of like Schrodinger's cat.
Ugly
Looks uncomfortable
Impossible to keep clean
Difficult for us old folks to get up from
I don't like marshmallows.
Good summary and I agree on all points. I’m not that old but I’m old enough to groan and grunt when I get up from a chair and sigh when I sit down.
It looks absurdly uncomfortable. It doesn’t even have arms at the ends so you couldn’t lie on it. As for sitting, only one of the sections is remotely any good (second from the left), and even that looks crap.
Even aside from the total lack of comfort, what I see is some gross kind of kitsch. Either marshmallows (disgusting and childish) or a cloud (sentimental cliche). In case it’s not obvious, I’m not a fan.
Even aside from the total lack of comfort, what I see is some gross kind of kitsch. Either marshmallows (disgusting and childish) or a cloud (sentimental cliche). In case it’s not obvious, I’m not a fan.
Did you have a bad experience with a marshmallow at some point?
Couple beheaded themselves with homemade guillotine in ritual sacrifice, police in India say
"The couple first prepared a fire altar before putting their heads under a guillotine-like mechanism held by a rope," Indrajeetsinh Jadeja, a police sub-inspector, was quoted as saying by Indian news outlets. "As soon as they released the rope, an iron blade fell on them, severing their heads, which rolled into the fire."
I feel very behind on the shoutbox. There's a lot of shit I don't know. It's a daunting task to retroactively learn everything I need to know since I last posted. It's a whirlwind pace here, and careful diligence is required in order to keep up.
I feel very behind on the shoutbox. There's a lot of shit I don't know. It's a daunting task to retroactively learn everything I need to know since I last posted. It's a whirlwind pace here, and careful diligence is required in order to keep up.
Except a year ago I was flippant in my request for a summary, whereas now I feel daunted by the task of doing the work myself and would never dare to request a summary. This shows the depth of knowledge now required to work in the shoutbox, a mere year later.
Reply to Noble Dust
See, youre back and already up to date with all you need to know.
I thought I was going to see a cool pic of a snowman when I clicked on the link you offered, but I got zilch, a blank rectangle on a black background. :sad:
Reply to Noble Dust
Yeah, aint it the truth, BUT we can just link to internet pics!
Sorry, Frank would not let your snowman sit on his couch, and he aint sitting on my side chairs!
I feel daunted by the task of doing the work myself and would never dare to request a summary.
During the period you missed, there were two and a half pages dedicated to how to pronounce the word "dance." No, I'm not kidding. You picked a good time to tune out.
During the period you missed, there were two and a half pages dedicated to how to pronounce the word "dance." No, I'm not kidding. You picked a good time to tune out.
My guess is that your animosity toward the dance conversation is that you say dance really stupid.
I feel very behind on the shoutbox. There's a lot of shit I don't know. It's a daunting task to retroactively learn everything I need to know since I last posted. It's a whirlwind pace here, and careful diligence is r
I've got to keep it real, so I'm not just going to blow sunshine up your ass and tell you your absence was no big deal. Truth is, and everybody's been talking about it in PMs and in text messages behind your back, but we've all noticed you're barely coherent anymore, like whatever light was on in there has flickered out.
You shouldn't have walked away from the light of the Shoutbox.
Flubbering flibbertigibbet, I've been wibbly-wobbly and totally zonked out on zephyrs, and so I completely fudged up and missed out on the hootenanny that's been happening for the past few days!
For breakfast I took Skyr yogurt, coffee, and an egg and provolone sandwich with a few squirts of ketchup. Provolone is not a great egg sandwich cheese, but it's what I had on hand. I had to get up early for a job interview this week, and now I seem to be on an early morning schedule. I could get used to this.
I like provolone a lot on breakfast sandwiches. It melts really nicely. Try sticking your sandwich with the top off in the toaster oven for a couple of minutes. Microwave works, but not as well.
That's a good technique. I put a slice on the eggs as they finished in the pan and then put a lid on to steam it. It melted for the most part. Provolone is my go to cheese for cold cut sandwiches, but I prefer Cheddar with eggs, or even American if I'm feeling naughty.
That's a good technique. I put a slice on the eggs as they finished in the pan and then put a lid on to steam it. It melted for the most part. Provolone is my go to cheese for cold cut sandwiches, but I prefer Cheddar with eggs, or even American if I'm feeling naughty.
I've been meaning to try provolone on a cheeseburger. As I noted, it melts well. My son, who is a former bartender and butcher and cares about this stuff, says American cheese is the right one for cheeseburgers because of the way it melts.
I make smashburgers and I impregnate the meat with cheese pieces, jalapeños, and onions before putting them on the griddle. The trick is to put parchment paper between the smasher and burger so it can smash thin and not stick.
And by "impregnate," I mean I position my naked loins above the unsmashed meat and I drive my schlong in vigorous piston like strokes repeatedly until the burger is satisfied. I satisfy the burger first because I'm a giver. That sort of love is the secret ingredient.
But there is of course a disparity between the meaning of "relish" as a verb traditionally, and my usage, which would be to "relish a hotdog", meaning put relish on it. But this brings up the question of whether other condiments could have shades of meaning. If @T Clark "provolones a cheeseburger", is he simply applying provolone to the burger sandwich, or is he doing something more?
But there is of course a disparity between the meaning of "relish" as a verb traditionally, and my usage, which would be to "relish a hotdog", meaning put relish on it.
Yes, and this is what gives the word its rich ambiguity, ripe for creative use by meal poets such as you.
What are the hardest phrases to say in the English language?
ChatGPT
[hide="Reveal"]
The difficulty of phrases can vary depending on factors such as pronunciation, length, and complexity. However, here are some examples of phrases that are often considered challenging to pronounce or say correctly in the English language:
"Squirrel": The combination of consonants and the rapid transition between sounds makes this word challenging for many people.
"Rural juror": This phrase is particularly difficult due to the repetition of the "r" and "j" sounds, as well as the vowel sounds involved.
"Irish wristwatch": The rapid switching between the "r" and "w" sounds can be quite challenging.
"Unique New York": The repetition of the "n" and "y" sounds in quick succession can be tricky for some.
"Sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick": This phrase is known for its tongue twister nature, with multiple "s" and "sh" sounds in rapid succession.
"Toy boat": The combination of the "t" and "b" sounds in quick succession can be difficult to articulate clearly.
"He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts": This phrase is from a famous English language exercise and can be challenging due to the repeated "th" sounds and rapid rhythm.
"She sells seashells by the seashore": Another popular tongue twister that involves the repetition of the "s" sound.
"The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick": Similar to the previous example, this phrase is challenging due to the repetition of the "s" and "sh" sounds.
"How can a clam cram in a clean cream can?": This phrase poses difficulties with consonant clusters and rapid pronunciation.
I am working on a program that will automatically pick out recent posts from the forum and respond to them using Chat GPT. That way I won't have to waste any more time, but the quantity and quality of responses will be maintained.
Keep in mind that only I can do this in my role as The Voice of the Spirit of Philosophy here on the forum. Anyone else who tries will be banned.
I'm working on a program that will automatically pickle out verbs from the forum and ham them into condiments using Chat GPT. I will then tamarind the program to Worcestershire-engineer nuanced meanings to each condiment verb in order to pate new inflections and intimations never heartobefore curd nor imagined.
What does ChatGPT have against woodchucks chucking wood in abundance?
Funny you should ask that. Here's a conversation I had with Chat GPT several weeks ago:
[hide="Reveal"]Me
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
ChatGPT
According to a popular tongue twister, "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" The answer is not straightforward as it is a humorous, rhetorical question. Woodchucks, also known as groundhogs, are burrowing rodents and do not actually chuck or throw wood. They mainly dig burrows in soil and are not known for any wood-chucking abilities.
Me
But what is the answer
ChatGPT
As I mentioned earlier, the question "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" is a rhetorical question and not meant to be taken literally. It is a tongue twister that has been around for decades and is meant to be a playful and humorous way of testing one's ability to pronounce similar-sounding words.
So, in short, there is no definitive answer to this question as it is a playful phrase that is not meant to be taken literally.
Me
The correct answer is "A woodchuck would chuck all the would he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
ChatGPT
You are correct that there is a traditional answer to this tongue twister, which is "A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
However, it's important to note that this answer is still not meant to be taken literally. Woodchucks or groundhogs are not known for their ability to chuck or throw wood, as they are burrowing animals that typically dig tunnels in soil rather than handling wood.
The tongue twister is primarily used for fun and to challenge the speaker's ability to pronounce similar-sounding words, rather than as a serious inquiry into the abilities of woodchucks.
Me
You're just being stubborn. You were wrong and I was right.
ChatGPT
As an AI language model, my intention is to provide factual information and helpful responses to your queries. I apologize if my previous responses did not meet your expectations.
I understand that the traditional answer to the tongue twister is "A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood," and I acknowledge that it is a commonly known answer to the question. However, it's important to note that this answer is still a playful phrase and not meant to be taken as a literal statement about the abilities of woodchucks.[/hide]
Reply to Jamal Google search found sufficiently tonguey tortures in sources like the Readers Digest and a 1909 joke book. ChatGPT did no better.
“Six sick hicks nick six slick bricks with picks and sticks.”
'What kind of noise annoys and oyster? A noisy noise annoys and oyster" (1909). Mercifully, humor has improved since 1909. "Young folks used to swing on the porch; now they swing in the Porsche." "A made to order can't compare with a ready maid." 1960s.
Reply to T Clark ChatGPT suffers from plainly painful plodding literalism. If you ask it if mole sauce was any good, it would probably inform you about weird burrowing mammals or skin growths--neither of which are used in sauces. Magic potions, yes, sauce, no.
Making mountains out of molehills started in Tudor times, so 1485-1603.
The frost got the tomato vines so yesterday was spent pulling them out, today making mustard pickles with the green tomatoes. A small batch, Five jars, about two litres, enough for the fried eggs and cheese toasties of winter.
Reply to Jamal
I prefer the one oft used in my Glasgow Youth, in east end pubs. A 'how much have you drank,' challenge, to se if you can say the following fast, three times without swearing!
I am not a pheasant plucker,
I'm a pheasant plucker's son.
I will sit here plucking pheasants,
Till the pheasant pluckings done.
If you swore at any time then you have to drain your drink in one.
The challenge would then pass to the next person.
If you did it three times without swearing then you missed the next round when it became your turn to pay! I don't think I ever won once. Some did.
You could not start the challenge until at least 5 pints or 'shots' had been consumed by all members of the group.
It was a great pub game but everybody could get very pissed very quickly with all the drink draining in one. :grin:
People most failed on the third line, when they said, 'I will sit here fucking pheasants' or sometimes it was 'I will sit here fucking peasants.' :lol:
(The recipe I use is in the back of an ancient, somewhat be-soiled tome, handed down over generations, entitled Australian Women's Weekly Cooking Class Cookbook)
What's worse: A domineering, micro-managing boss who lets you know they need to be in control, or a very hands-off but manipulative boss who tries to pull strings to make things go their way while maintaining the appearance of being the "chill" or "cool" boss?
I agree. My boss is the latter, and I was reminded tonight of why he ultimately sucks. When I actually finally stuck up for myself and went against what he was saying, his reaction was hilarious and awkward.
Also, I just realized that there's no way Zizek isn't on aderall at best. :cheer:
Thanks. It seems like a small thing, but as a people-pleaser, it's significant to receive feedback that it's ok to be contrary. Especially when dealing with another people-pleaser, which just makes the situation more absurd. Anyway, I've already muddied the shoutbox with too much emotional and serious content; I want to apologize for doing this, but that's just another people-pleasing instinct that can easily be ignored. I do not apologize.
Reply to Noble Dust I confirm that it’s ok to be contrary. You’re a beacon of hope. Asserting oneself successfully in a world that can make one feel powerless gives one a taste of freedom and agency, even when it doesn’t work out.
Yes. :cheer: Working for a manipulative people-pleaser for the past 4+ years has made me realize how much of a manipulative people-pleaser I am, and how much I despise this approach to work, and how much I want to change, both myself and the people I work for. :fire:
Reply to Noble Dust Yes, but in context it might have suggested you were thinking about setting fire to your place of work and your boss and perhaps even the whole city.
Reply to T Clark Javi is correct, although I think you need to change your email notification settings accordingly. Otherwise, you can also click on "Bookmarks" in the menu to see whatever you've bookmarked.
@fdrake
I couldn't respond to your last post in the bannings thread, as it was closed.
So, I think your last post there, was a DREDDful thing to type!
Any more famous film lines to test us on? It's good fun!
I am in a bar and there are around 30 people who are reunited to celebrate their passion: their unconditional love to 1980's Opel Calibra. They wear a t-shirt with the flag of Spain and the symbol of Opel inside.
I’ve often thought that Opel (in the UK, Vauxhall) cars were the least attractive cars in existence. There’s something about them that’s so anonymous, lacking in all character. The pinnacle of mediocrity. The Dell of cars.
Ok, so the last time I had a car it was a 15 year old Renault Laguna, but it had character and it never gave up. Good old Tiddles.
Breakfast: two boiled eggs
Lunch-dinner: chicken kievs and mash + Napoleon cake
A gentleman does not attend a Eurovision song contest party tonight, particularly at his sister's house. Nor does a gentleman watch the Superbowl or observe Prime Minister's questions. A gentleman assiduously avoids potential contact--visual, aural, or tactile--with non-gentlemen, regardless of medium or proximity. The one exception would be contact between a gentleman and his wife, though it is recommended she also be a gentleman or ideally the gentleman himself. A gentleman is occasionally permitted to post on a philosophy forum, provided he follows such indulgence with a cleansing bath of sulfuric acid and destroys whatever electronic access utilized with some form of explosive, preferably plastic. A gentleman is not himself plastic but may acceptably be composed of Yorkshire toffee or mint cremes.
Reply to Jamal It is true. I guess that's why they also wore a German flag. To pay respects and tributes.
Fun fact: when I left the bar, I noticed that they had all parked the same car in the parking lot. Some of them were white, others red.
I respect their passion for German cars, but I think the vehicle is not very impressive. Who am I to judge their taste anyway?
A reliable picture of the Opel Calibra they were venerating:
OKAY, I am not and never have been a gentleman!
Wellington said the same thing about Napoleon, strangely enough.
'Bonies not a gentlemen, In battle, his hat is worth the lives of 30,000 of my soldiers, but he is not a gentleman!
I still have to go, my two nieces said so, and I must bring their granny with me! :groan:
In fact, I have to go and get ready now. This show doesn't end till 12pm :groan:
There better be plenty alcohol! I like the Polish song!!!
At least all the women in that show are beeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuutiful.
Sad I am now too old and ugly to attract any such. :groan:
Reply to javi2541997 I’m wondering if those 30 people were the entire Spanish 1980s Opel Calibra club, or if that was just the local division. If you find out let me know.
Reply to Jamal They were the entire Spanish 1980s Opel Calibra club. It seems that they go together to any location in Spain. Today was Madrid, tomorrow will be Toledo, etc... with their fancy Opel Calibra.
I asked GPT about Hanover on thephilosophyforum.com, and here's what I'm to learn (dead on BTW):
Once upon a time in the virtual realm of thephilosophyforum.com, there was a user named Hanover. Hanover was an avid seeker of knowledge and a passionate participant in philosophical discussions. With an insatiable curiosity and a hunger for deep insights, Hanover became a respected and influential member of the forum community.
Hanover's journey on the forum began with a simple question about the nature of reality. With each thread, Hanover delved further into the realms of metaphysics, epistemology, and existentialism, engaging in profound debates with fellow members. Hanover's contributions were marked by clarity of thought, logical rigor, and a genuine desire to understand different perspectives.
Over time, Hanover's reputation grew, attracting the attention of other distinguished members and even some renowned philosophers who occasionally visited the forum. Hanover's thought-provoking posts and eloquent arguments became a source of inspiration for many, fostering a spirit of intellectual camaraderie within the community.
However, Hanover's influence extended beyond the forum itself. In the offline world, Hanover started organizing philosophy study groups and initiated collaborative projects with other forum members. Together, they explored philosophical texts, held local meetups, and organized online conferences on various philosophical topics. Hanover's passion for philosophy was contagious, as it brought together individuals from diverse backgrounds, united by a shared love for wisdom.
Not content with mere discussions, Hanover also sought to bridge the gap between philosophy and practical life. Hanover initiated dialogues exploring ethical dilemmas, social justice issues, and the application of philosophical principles in everyday decision-making. This endeavor sparked a wave of introspection and activism among forum members, encouraging them to use philosophy as a tool for positive change.
As Hanover's contributions continued to inspire and shape the intellectual landscape of thephilosophyforum.com, Hanover remained humble, always open to new ideas and receptive to constructive criticism. The genuine desire to learn and grow alongside fellow members earned Hanover the admiration and respect of the entire community.
Hanover's journey on the forum was not just about gaining knowledge but also about building connections, fostering a community of thinkers, and spreading the joy of philosophical exploration. Hanover's legacy endured, inspiring future generations of users who would continue to engage in thoughtful and meaningful discussions on thephilosophyforum.com.
And so, the story of Hanover on thephilosophyforum.com remains etched in the digital annals of the online philosophical community—a testament to the power of ideas, the pursuit of wisdom, and the transformative potential of virtual spaces that bring together passionate individuals in their shared quest for truth.
I drive a Jeep because I like rugged unreliable American cars.
Now that I make comics for a non-living and live in a tent on waste ground next to an abandoned nuclear facility, I like anything with a functioning engine and wheels.
Now that I make comics for a non-living and live in a tent on waste ground next to an abandoned nuclear facility, I like anything with a functioning engine and wheels.
Late night dinner (week's meal prep) was Homemade chicken shawarma, homemade hummus, tomato and cucumber (yes, cucumber) salad, and saffron rice.
I've made the Shawarma recipe many times before, and it's always solid, although I think I used too much EVOO this time, as it was a bit oily. Still yum.
This was my second time making hummus. It was still not quite right texture-wise; not smooth enough and a bit too thick, but the flavor was there. It needed more tahini and perhaps just a bit of water to let it down and smooth it out.
First time trying this saffron rice recipe, and considering I found an old container of saffron from my old former roommate which was probably circa 10 years old, I think it turned out ok. Somehow there was still a saffron fragrance there. As I'm quite lazy, I usually just drum up some plain rice, so this was a step in the right direction for me, in terms of making rice that actually has flavor. I didn't nail it, but it was tasty. I'm satisfied.
There's a deli near me that makes really good baked apples. It's like the inside of an apple pie without the crust. It's really good. I sprinkle crumbs over it, but it would take a while to explain the content of the crumbs.
The forum administration deleted some comments and two new discussions of mine. Higher truths are not something this world can know if respect for my work, me and my loved ones is not there. So I've decided to leave this forum for good. I will not be doing any postings on any other platforms either. Goodbye! Hope we never meet again.
Reply to Beena The forum demands quality in the posts of each member. I have read your OPs and I thought they were interesting but you limited them with a lot of assertiveness. Like it seemed you started those threads just to show you were right about facts, but avoiding the debate. I think if you are member of a philosophy forum, you should be ready for criticism and doubt from other members.
For example: I have to accept the criticism from other folks due to my poor English grammar skills. They are right on this issue and I have to improve myself.
Reply to Baden I see The Scream and American Gothic in there and then there's an appearance by Nessie with a convenient stick of chewing gum at the bottom.
Thanks for sparing the time consuming details and stressing our busy schedules.
I explained it a long time ago and you said it sounded like dog biscuits. But it has cranberries, almonds, pepitos, and oatmeal in it. It's really good with baked apples.
The forum administration deleted some comments and two new discussions of mine. Higher truths are not something this world can know if respect for my work, me and my loved ones is not there. So I've decided to leave this forum for good. I will not be doing any postings on any other platforms either. Goodbye! Hope we never meet again.
I warned you. The forum will put up with all sorts of crap - pseudo-science, one line OPs, four half-assed threads on free will covering the same questions at the same time, rhetoric without philosophical content, insults, and goofy pseudo-philosophy; but the only religious discussion allowed is anti-religion.
"So this the like DNA talk. And so i showed how darwin's theory of evolution could not be possible. On one hand darwin is talking about environment changing drastically and so species having to adapt to the new, on another hand the guy's postulating evolution happening over long long periods of time, as such that cannot be actually seen by a generation. In len?thy periods of time how in heaven's name can environment change drastically for species to adapt immediately. If over time, why the need for adaptation? There would be none. So logically, darwin is just plain wrong.
Now, the dna/rna in relation to literature and grammar and life in general, i'll talk about next."
It's been quite a while since I have heard alarming news about "murder hornets". Anyone run into any of them in the remote corners of TPF? Are they hiding, breeding, building up their numbers, and preparing for a massive attack? Killer bees turned out to be pretty tolerable (or nobody lived to tell about how bad they are?). Maybe the same for murder hornets? The only people who knew where they were have been killed... murdered... by hornets?
I bought my wife an espresso making gizmo where you put the water under the coffee grinds and put it on the stove and the water boils through the grinds and boils over to the other part where you can then pour it
I think that's pretty clear.
It came in a gift box, so it was thoughtful, making me a better husband than the whole lot of your sorry taking things for granted asses.
I know I'm coming at you hard on this, but something's got to a light fire under you for fuck's sake.
It's been quite a while since I have heard alarming news about "murder hornets". Anyone run into any of them in the remote corners of TPF? Are they hiding, breeding, building up their numbers, and preparing for a massive attack? Killer bees turned out to be pretty tolerable (or nobody lived to tell about how bad they are?). Maybe the same for murder hornets? The only people who knew where they were have been killed... murdered... by hornets?
The murder hornets are mostly a danger to honey bees, as if they needed more stress. I saw some gigantic hornets last summer, but after careful googling, I determined that they were North American natives. Still, they had about a six foot wing span as I recall.
Chili grilled cheese sandwiches for dinner. My creation, based upon the available leftovers.
My review: "An inspired take on Americana comfort foods, fit for both royalty and the meth infested trailer park. A party for the palate and substance for the belly, leaving one in a methadone post-coital grogginess. A++ to the chef. Kudos!!"
Reply to Manuel It's just called "voice recorder" that I got on the Google App store. As long as you get one that saves in .wav or mp3 format, I think it'll be compatible with everyone's systems. Wav format is higher quality.
Jamal couldn't get my amr file to open, which was the format my text messaging system came with, but maybe that's a problem with his 3rd world system.
As I'm eating the tomato and cucumber salad I made last night, I'm reminded that, yes, I really do not, in fact, care for cucumbers. It's a chore to eat. It tastes very green and otherwise of nothing much. Bland is the word.
As I'm eating the tomato and cucumber salad I made last night, I'm reminded that, yes, I really do not, in fact, care for cucumbers. It's a chore to eat. It tastes very green and otherwise of nothing much. Bland is the word.
My new favourite meal to cook at home is rice and beans.
My version is very simple. Red beans, soaked overnight, boiled for 52 minutes and then set aside. In a pan, fry bell peppers, onions, chillis and garlic, then add a can of tomatoes. Enough salt so that it’s almost too salty. Cook for a while.
They're pretty cool. I bought one after using one at my brother's house. His worked better though for some infuriating reason. Anyhow, they're very inexpensive which explains Hanover's gift and also why I could afford one, whereas I can only dream of living in the fabled drug-infested trailer park.
Like, this is @Hanovers house and his wife gets a twenty buck kitchen appliance for their fiftieth wedding anniversary. Meanwhile, he laughs and throws peanuts at me while I try to get some sleep in my tent.
Sounds like you’re describing a moka pot, a landmark innovation in the history of coffee.
I read all about this fascinating discovery at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot. I had no idea what an amazing invention I stumbled upon. I had a chocolate chip cookie with my pseudo-espresso. It tasted like fucking a super model. That's how amazing it was.
You have used a vague reference. Please clarify: a) the Varsity is disgusting; b) the locals are disgusting; c) it's all disgusting.
I read recently that autistic people had true difficulty with comments like mine where the references were ambiguous due to their inability to read contextually and not literally, resulting in confusion and unexpected responses from them to statements.
But yes, I am disgusting, yet the Varsity food is like fucking a super model. That's how delicious it is.
Like, this is Hanovers house and his wife gets a twenty buck kitchen appliance for their fiftieth wedding anniversary. Meanwhile, he laughs and throws peanuts at me while I try to get some sleep in my tent.
I'll have you know that I grossly overpaid for that appliance because it came in a fancy gift box with designer cookies and cool little espresso cups. That's how much I love her. I love her much more than I love @Jamal's wife in fact.
I love her much more than I love Jamal's wife in fact.
I know you're just trying to get me to say something objectionable about your and Jamal's wives but I refuse to. I will have you know I love them both equally.
How do you know, if you have only ever experienced one and not the other?
Many on this site favour empirical evidence over theistic style fantasy.
Provide the super models 'proof of career,' name, and contact details, so that your claim can be peer reviewed. Put up or shut up, Ya big feckin fantasist!
Provide the super models 'proof of career,' name, and contact details, so that your claim can be peer reviewed. Put up or shut up, Ya big feckin fantasist!
The super model I was referencing can be found at @baden. :heart:
Reply to Baden Do you have some sort of cartoon writing program? Not that my way of doing it isn't perfect, but if there were a way for me to more efficiently express myself in rectangular boxes, I would like to know how.
I also want to see if there might be a way that I can link some audio to the frames. I don't know if you are old enough to have had film strips in school, where there were still pictures with someone talking in the background and it would beep to let you know when to flip to the next picture. It'd be something like that. It's a retro hipster dirty beard sort of media idea I came up.
My new favourite meal to cook at home is rice and beans.
My version is very simple. Red beans, soaked overnight, boiled for 52 minutes and then set aside. In a pan, fry bell peppers, onions, chillis and garlic, then add a can of tomatoes. Enough salt so that it’s almost too salty. Cook for a while.
Add the beans. Meanwhile, cook some rice.
Red beans and rice is a cajun staple. One day I might upload an audio of the proper way for cajun people to speak cajun.
You can also make bean soup by putting dried red beans in a moka pot and forcing water through the beans. It tastes like fucking a super model.
Red beans and rice is a cajun staple. One day I might upload an audio of the proper way for cajun people to speak cajun.
I realized I didn’t know much about Cajun things and I was going to Google it but decided against it at the last second to avoid a deep rabbit’s hole. So I remain in partial ignorance. I’m thinking gumbo, jambalaya, spiciness, Louisiana, bayous, and some possible Frenchness.
Beans and rice seems to be popular up and down the Americas, plus the Caribbean.
No, but I have an Onyx Boox which is kind of like a Kindle you can draw on or an IPad with an e-ink screen. Anyhow, you get a stylus and you can easily edit stuff, move it around and so on in their in-built notes app. E. g. with the Scream cartoon I was able to put an image of the painting as a guide layer underneath my drawing so I got the proportions right. Usually though, I just mess around until stuff looks good (enough). Now that I've gone to all this effort to explain you better get one. I appreciate you spent all your money on beans but maybe your wife can fork out.
No, but I have an Onyx Boox which is kind of like a Kindle you can draw on or an IPad with an e-ink screen. Anyhow, you get a stylus and you can easily edit stuff, move it around and so on in their in-built notes app. E. g. with the Scream cartoon I was able to put an image of the painting as a guide layer underneath my drawing so I got the proportions right. Usually though, I just mess around until stuff looks good (enough). Now that I've gone to all this effort to explain you better get one. I appreciate you spent all your money on beans but maybe your wife can fork out.
yet the Varsity food is like fucking a super model. That's how delicious it is.
I used to eat there before you were born. Great place for a double date in high school, then on to Loews Grand for a movie. Or out to Stone Mountain for necking. Not bad while at Ga Tech, either. Walking distance. Another burger place opened up nearby when I was at Tech, but closed due to food poisoning.
The Loews Grand was best known for burning down as I recall.
A beautiful theater. I saw the re-release of Gone With the Wind there in 1954. Ushers dressed in uniform with flashlights to show you your way to your seats. The Fox theater on Peachtree was even more gorgeous, with Arabian turrets inside the theater.
I lived near Stone Mountain as a kid. As I predicted many years ago, it's not going anywhere. It's big and heavy as shit.
Already a philosopher, then. I am impressed. I rock climbed up the bottom part of the uncompleted carving back in 1956, the abandoned iron girders, suspended on cables, slowly turning in the breeze above my head, creaking.
Good morning. When I woke up, I heard that the jazz album "Tourist" by St Germain was sounding somewhere or just probably in my head after dreaming about it.
To be honest, I am not a specialist of Jazz music, but this is one of the best albums I have ever heard. My parents have a CD of Tourist of the year 2000 when it was released, and I think I have been listening it since then.
Reply to javi2541997 I fondly remember putting St Germain on the jukebox while playing pool with my friends in the nineties. That must have been the first album. Then I got Tourist when it came out, so I was listening to it when I was about your age.
Reply to Jamal I am jealous of all of you that were lucky to experience the 1990's and early 2000's at my age. Putting St Germain on the jukebox. A great experience that I never had the luck to live. Having memories like that is a treasure.
Reply to javi2541997 In the nineties I was lonely, miserable, directionless, shy and ineffectual, a mere shadow of a human being. Otherwise yeh, it was great :grin:
Reply to Jamal I understand what you felt because I also experienced the same feelings about myself. But, in my case, this happened between 2013 and 2019 with a poor musical culture. :sweat:
I am jealous of all of you that were lucky to experience the 1990's and early 2000's at my age.
I disliked the 1980's and the 1990's - awful decades, where 'greed is good' was created and eventually metastasised in the international psyche. I much prefer now to back then.
Reply to Tom Storm You are right in the fact that politics were terrible back then, but when has this never been? It is interesting that each generation has its own disappointment regarding the "leaders" we have to follow supposedly.
But I was referring to art and culture: I think those decades created good music, films, series...
Reply to Tom Storm Jazz music, Murakami's books, and good films such as The "Godfather part III"or Stanley Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" and "Eyes Wide Shut" for example.
I disliked the 1980's and the 1990's - awful decades, where 'greed is good' was created and eventually metastasised in the international psyche. I much prefer now to back then.
That moral ambiguity of the 80s was maybe a reaction to the earlier super-naive, super-good Donna Reed type of world. If you watch I Love Lucy and see how childish everybody is, it contrasts in a sort of horrific way to the reality of the time: the Cold War was brewing.
In the nineties I was lonely, miserable, directionless, shy and ineffectual, a mere shadow of a human being. Otherwise yeh, it was great
This made me think back to the various decades and what my personality was like over time. I started law school in 1990 and from there I got a job, got married, bought a house, had kids, and pretty much started off in my life. Sorry to hear you were going through something different, but then I think you at least did those things necessary to find your way to meeting me, even if unintentionally, but the good Lord wouldn't deprive you of me, so you were not directionless. You just didn't know you were a passenger, not a driver.
When I think of my least productive years, I place them at 1979 to 1984, which were my high school years. I had emerged from some personal family tragedy and had changed schools from a religious one to a secular one, and so there was some degree of culture shock. It took some years to realize that my lack of fitting in during those years was as much due to external factors as to internal personality ones, although my sense of humor can be abrasive if misunderstood, which it often was on the locals, so that wasn't always helpful. Probably thinking of them as locals and me as something different was the start of the problem.
For whatever it's worth, I do think I'm better off than those who seemed to flow effortlessly through life. I have a feeling of superiority over them, as if they have remained sheltered simpletons their entire lives. Of course I know no one actually has effortlessly flowed through life and that all have I'm sure had very similar feelings of angst, lonliness, and directionlessness in their lives, but I like to think mine special and more profound. It's important to feel special. Part of that starts with realizing directionlessness is not a thing.
If you watch I Love Lucy and see how childish everybody is, it contrasts in a sort of horrific way to the reality of the time: the Cold War was brewing.
Why was the Cold War horrific? There was no actual war. The horrors seemed to preceed the Cold War with WWII and then pick back up after the fall of the Soviet Union when the invasions started up again.
I guess the Cold War might have been horrific to those in the Eastern bloc nations under Soviet control, but that wasn't the Western experience. We were watching I Love Lucy and they were in potato lines, or at least that's how the story goes.
Reply to Baden I don't ever understand your comic strips. I get the difficulty in knowing which person is standing on their head if someone has lived their life upside down, but I would think the inability to gain traction with your feet due to the lack of floor contact would clarify that even for the person who knows no perspective other than upside down. Surely he's recognized how slowly he moves on his head compared to how others move on their feet.
Then we go to the last frame where it says "Leave Me Sleep." Maybe that's how head standing people talk, but I don't talk like that, so it leaves me wondering.
Why was the Cold War horrific? There was no actual war.
People would have been watching I Love Lucy reruns when the Bay of Pigs incident happened. You're a young baby boomer. The adult generation at the time was the Silent Generation. And the Greatest Generation. I guess they were there too.
Part of that starts with realizing directionlessness is not a thing.
How so?
It seems to me that not having some kind of goal, however small, heavily contributes to a lack of meaning or significance. Now, if you reply or have in mind that one already knows what one should work to improve, then that much makes sense.
Otherwise, being lost seems to me a real occurrence.
Reply to Hanover Nice story. That's the thing is it not? To make a story of your life, in which nothing is directionless. I'm sure we were talking about this months or years ago.
Why was the Cold War horrific? There was no actual war. The horrors seemed to preceed the Cold War with WWII and then pick back up after the fall of the Soviet Union when the invasions started up again.
I guess the Cold War might have been horrific to those in the Eastern bloc nations under Soviet control, but that wasn't the Western experience. We were watching I Love Lucy and they were in potato lines, or at least that's how the story goes.
I think it was similar in the USSR actually. Things had been horrific till the 1950s, and then later on there were food shortages in the 1980s. Between those decades things were quite good in terms of food, housing, education, and health. It seems that at the same time as Western capitalism had found ways to maintain stability and generate growth consistently, the USSR achieved something similar.
But while my now-mother-in-law was queueing for potatoes in the 80s, I was in Scotland watching terrifying public information films about nuclear war. There seemed to be an ever-present but at the same time unreal danger of annihilation.
Anyway, the Cold War wasn't all that cold outside of Europe, the Soviet Union, and the US. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and lots of smaller proxy wars. Even within Europe there were the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
My conclusion: the Cold War was not as horrific as the Second World War but not everyone was watching I Love Lucy.
It seems to me that not having some kind of goal, however small, heavily contributes to a lack of meaning or significance. Now, if you reply or have in mind that one already knows what one should work to improve, then that much makes sense.
Otherwise, being lost seems to me a real occurrence.
I didn't say people didn't subjectively feel lost or without direction. I said objectively people have a purpose and direction, even if they don't know it.
I was suggesting that the feeling of directionlessness could be overcome by realizing it was a subjective and incorrect feeling, but, even then, that feeling of directionlessness was at it was because it needed to be.
That is, you are exactly where you ought to be right now, as was Jamal when he felt lost.
It's a worldview. You can take it or leave it I suppose.
Nice story. That's the thing is it not? To make a story of your life, in which nothing is directionless. I'm sure we were talking about this months or years ago.
Yes, the reasons do not matter why you make a story of your life to make it appear as if it has direction. The result will be the same, which is that your life will then have meaning and things will matter. That is to say, it does not matter whether you think you're concocting a meaningful story to insert happiness into your life or whether your life actually has meaning and purpose. I choose the latter, but others can choose pragmatics if that is more agreeable to their constitution.
it does not matter whether you think you're concocting a meaningful story to insert happiness into your life or whether your life actually has meaning and purpose.
I've never seen my life as the subject of a narrative and I don't really understand the impulse to do so. For that reason, I find the idea of a personal memoire perplexing. Why would I want to read what Kim Kardashian or Pol Pot have to say about their lives except as a chronicle of psychopathology. I remember writing a personal essay in my college English class and realizing the only reason to write about one's life is to use some aspect of it as a particular example, a jumping off point, to talk about something more general.
I think you see that in my writing here. @Jamal has commented on the fact that I "personalize" my philosophical positions. That's true, but it's not because I think I'm something special. It's the opposite I guess - What's typical about my life, the everyday, is the basis for my understanding of how stuff works. My family, my history, my education, the way I see the world fitting together. It's what I have to share, what I know best.
My life has no meaning and I don't want it to. There's no story arc, no theme, no verisimilitude, no denouement. I used "denouement" because I knew it would be a mistake to write "climax" here. To paraphrase Lao Tzu - The life that can be spoken is not the eternal, authentic life.
Reply to T Clark Quite interesting. My life doesn't have innate purpose, direction, or meaning either. What it has (what any life has) is a history, and I wanted to understand that history as clearly as I could. I wrote a "memoir" toward that end. Once it was done, it was lost in the drift of obsolete hard drives, boxes of floppies tossed in the trash, and so on. No matter. I had gained some understanding and clarity in my head, which is the only place it matters.
I have read several personal histories, memoirs, that are illustrative of particular public times, places, and events, and found them both useful and helpful in understanding the larger world. Ned Rorem's diaries and Samual Steward's work, to name two very different cultural figures, illustrate this. The memoirs of people who were merely famous or infamous (like porn stars) are not good for much of anything.
That a life is a public project with direction, narrative, meaning, clear stages, purpose, fulfillment (or failure), and so forth might be the approach of a particular personality type who is publicly achievement oriented. I never had that problem.
According to my AI assistant, you are the only person ever to have mentioned Kim Kardashian and Pol Pot in the same sentence.
According to my AI assistant, you are the only person ever to have mentioned Kim Kardashian and Pol Pot in the same sentence.
Little known fact - Kim and Pol (Pot?) are distantly related. When they moved out of Africa about 100,000 years ago, the Kardashian branch dropped off in what is now Armenia while the Pots (Pols?) continued on to what is now Cambodia.
As with most, almost all, of my little known facts, I just made this up.
And I see that expression as part of your purpose. As I noted, you are exactly where you are supposed to be. Telling someone with my worldview that you have somehow escaped the pull of your purpose would be like telling someone with a scientific worldview that they've escaped the push of the causal chain.
Telling someone with my worldview that you have somehow escaped the pull of your purpose would be like telling someone with a scientific worldview that they've escaped the push of the causal chain.
There have been discussions on the forum before questioning whether or not physical causation is a useful way of understanding the world. There are reputable scientists and philosophers who don't think so. Bertrand Russell made that claim more than 100 years ago. Personally, I think the everyday use of the term is fine, but the further you get away from human scale, the less value it has.
I wanted to understand that history as clearly as I could. I wrote a "memoir" toward that end.
That actually sounds interesting. I've thought about doing it too, not to tell a story, but to just give something to my children so they can see where they come from. That seems like the kind of thing you are talking about. The one or two times I set off to do that, I just can't think of anything worthwhile to say. My life is a bunch of stuff that happened.
That being said, here is my final philosophical say on the matter:
There have been discussions on the forum before questioning whether or not physical causation is a useful way of understanding the world. There are reputable scientists and philosophers who don't think so. Bertrand Russell made that claim more than 100 years ago.
I went down this rabbit hole just a bit and found the article you allude to: Here
But I see here at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_causation that he later abandoned these earlier views.
In any event, to the extent I delved into specifically what he was saying, I saw this as a Humean sort of challenge to causation in terms of its knowability. He also spent a considerable amount of time trying to define it, consistent with that hyper-analytic style.
I don't think it touches so much on what I was saying though, which was to rely upon teleological explanations for events in addition to causative explanations. The former looks to the end for an explanation, the latter at beginnings for an explanation. I think either are equally valid.
I don't challenge the existence of causation though and I'm not overly concerned with a specific definition of it. My point is simply to admit to the telelogical, but I don't think it entails a denial of the causative. I do think it's consistent with science that we deny the existence of purpose, but I don't think that denial is entailed though.
But it's an interesting argument to make that one cannot believe in purposes if one believes in causes, but I don't think that's logically entailed. I'd have to think about it.
Regardless of what anyone says about it, it's never going to be a binary where our lives are meaningless vs meaningful, or lacking all purpose vs purposeful. What's important I think is whether we have real conviction in any given action or goal or not. And that can be hard to foster.
My life has no meaning and I don't want it to. There's no story arc, no theme, no verisimilitude, no denouement. I used "denouement" because I knew it would be a mistake to write "climax" here. To paraphrase Lao Tzu - The life that can be spoken is not the eternal, authentic life.
I don't know any people who don't think like this - except the Lao Tzu part.
That moral ambiguity of the 80s was maybe a reaction to the earlier super-naive, super-good Donna Reed type of world. If you watch I Love Lucy and see how childish everybody is, it contrasts in a sort of horrific way to the reality of the time: the Cold War was brewing.
I don't have any theory about the 1980's or 90's other than they didn't appeal to me as a period, even though I was pretty happy and carefree. I disliked Australian politics and pop-culture at the time and I mainly hung out with friends talking, drinking, ignoring the films, books and music of the period. Most of us were more partial to the 1880's than the 1980's.
True for you, true for us all. Our lives begin and unfold when and where they do. But it's still your life in which your bunch of stuff happened, and not anyone else's. I took a chronological approach, beginning with early memories and worked my way through important stuff up to the present. That's not the only possible approach. (Fortunately we forget a lot. I remember almost nothing from second grade and have few recollections of daily tasks (like washing clothes, grocery shopping, or preparing food) for 3 years after college.
On one hand I was pleased with the results; on the other hand, some of the most interesting stuff (to me) seemed too private and too personal to share with others.
Your great grandchildren might find the mundane details of your life of great interest. The mundane details of their lives will be much different than yours. The lives of my parents (born in 1906 and 1907) were vastly different than mine. What seems commonplace now may be unknown in 50 years.
Just start writing and don't edit yourself too vigilantly. You are presumably not going to send the story of your life off to Knopf or Penguin, so don't judge yourself like a book review critic. Just get it written.
In any event, to the extent I delved into specifically what he was saying, I saw this as a Humean sort of challenge to causation in terms of its knowability. He also spent a considerable amount of time trying to define it, consistent with that hyper-analytic style.
I've read the Russell paper, which I find a bit obscure. My reasons for dispensing with the idea of causation are different. I use the Russell example to show that the idea that causation is not a necessary phenomenon in our world.
I don't challenge the existence of causation though and I'm not overly concerned with a specific definition of it. My point is simply to admit to the telelogical, but I don't think it entails a denial of the causative. I do think it's consistent with science that we deny the existence of purpose, but I don't think that denial is entailed though.
For me, the ideas of causation and teleology are unnecessary and misleading. I see the existence of causation in particular as a matter of metaphysics. It's a way of thinking about things, not a fact. I think it's useful in simple situations, e.g. if I kick a ball, I cause it to move. As situations get more complicated, the idea loses its utility. It doesn't really tell us anything interesting in a scientific understanding of what is happening.
As for purpose, I think it is similar to causation in that it is useful for simple situations but quickly loses value as things get more complicated. I recently got in an argument about whether science tells us why things happen or how. I say how. Science knows nothing about why.
My life has no meaning and I don't want it to. There's no story arc, no theme, no verisimilitude, no denouement. I used "denouement" because I knew it would be a mistake to write "climax" here. To paraphrase Lao Tzu - The life that can be spoken is not the eternal, authentic life.
— T Clark
I don't know any people who don't think like this...
I don't think I've ever discussed the issue with regular people, e.g. my family and friends. Maybe I will, we're all getting together this weekend an we'll be drinking, so it will be a good time to do so. I do think ascribing a meaning or purpose to the operation of the world is an automatic human way of thinking. It's certainly common here on the forum. Science, religion, philosophy, morality, and history are all stories we tell each other. We act as if they are true, but they are really only comforting.
Just start writing and don't edit yourself too vigilantly. You are presumably not going to send the story of your life off to Knopf or Penguin, so don't judge yourself like a book review critic. Just get it written.
You've inspired me to either get on it and start writing or intend to start writing, put it off, and then just forget about it. Either way, I'm inspired.
Turn it into a farce for the next Short Story Contest.
The shorter, the better:
He was born, he lived; Yadda, yadda, yadda. Blah, blah, blah. Eenie, meenie, moe; he died. All true, except for that last part, which is premature but I'm pretty sure it's accurate.
If I'm following the (disturbing) recent shoutbox trend of somewhat serious posts, I guess I'm not 100% sure how this attitude is all that different than the maligned "Antinatal Arguments" thread. Granted a Seinfeld flippancy is different that wishing you hadn't been born. But how different, really?
If I'm following the (disturbing) recent shoutbox trend of somewhat serious posts, I guess I'm not 100% sure how this attitude is all that different than the maligned "Antinatal Arguments" thread. Granted a Seinfeld flippancy is different that wishing you hadn't been born. But how different, really?
Perhaps this is more to your liking:
HE WAS BORN, HE LIVED; YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. EENIE, MEENIE, MINEY, MOE. HE DIED.
Still true, but more exciting, what with the all caps and all.
To be clear, I was describing your language as Seinfeld flippancy, so the all caps wasn't necessary. We were already there.
I'm asking how close your "my life has no meaning" thing is to an antinatal position. I guess I'm being serious, although this may not be the place and time. And me, the mayor of the shoutbox, getting serious...
how close "my life has no meaning" thing is to an antinatal position
You didn't ask me, but... It's not the same thing. If I read Clark rightly, our existence is the result of chance; we live our lives without "making meaning" of it. That we "just live" is does not point toward futility, defeat, suffering, etc. that comes with antinatalism. One might very well be "just living" but doing it exuberantly and with every intention of procreating early and often. (That's how a lot of people got here.).
If I didn't read Clark rightly, that's still what I am thinking right now. I might think something else tomorrow.
I'm asking how close your "my life has no meaning" thing is to an antinatal position.
Not even in the same hemisphere. I'm probably the most Pollyannaish member of the forum. I think the world is a wonderful place. I think I am one of the most fortunate people in the history of the world. When I'm unhappy, I recognize it's my own responsibility.
When I say life has no meaning, I'm just saying that there's no story, no purpose. My life, life in general, is just what it is. Saying it has no meaning isn't the same as saying it has no value. That value comes from me and people who care about me. It's not somehow built into the universe.
If I read Clark rightly, our existence is the result of chance; we live our lives without "making meaning" of it. That we "just live" is does not point toward futility, defeat, suffering, etc. that comes with antinatalism. One might very well be "just living" but doing it exuberantly and with every intention of procreating early and often. (That's how a lot of people got here.).
I agree strongly with all of this except, perhaps, the "result of chance" part. I suspect that life and, maybe, intelligence are inevitable, not because of any plan or purpose, but just because of the way matter and energy work. There will always be physical and chemical cycles, feedback, self-organization, and evolution. As those cycles become more complex, they ultimately become life. Let's not go into that here.
When I say life has no meaning, I'm just saying that there's no story, no purpose. My life, life in general, is just what it is. Saying it has no meaning isn't the same as saying it has no value. That value comes from me and people who care about me. It's not somehow built into the universe.
I take this to be saying that there is no overarching meaning—like a cohesive narrative with a take-away message—rather than that life has no meaning per se. After all, you yourself tell meaningful stories about your life, such as when you explicitly draw on your professional experience in discussions about epistemology.
I think we can say that something has meaning without ascribing it to the universe. I realize that how this works is the big question of the disenchanted era, but it's not unusual to say that meaning and transcendent meaning are not the same thing.
When I say life has no meaning, I'm just saying that there's no story, no purpose. My life, life in general, is just what it is. Saying it has no meaning isn't the same as saying it has no value.
What to you is the concept of legacy?
When the first stars in the universe formed, there was only hydrogen, helium, a little lithium.
From Physics today: All of the hydrogen and most of the helium in the universe emerged 13.8 billion years ago from the Big Bang. The remainder of the chemical elements, except for a tiny amount of lithium, were forged in stellar interiors, supernova explosions, and neutron-star mergers. Elements up to and including iron are made in the hot cores of short-lived massive stars.
WE create meaning and purpose. Why did humans start to memorialise events? Even in the form of early cave paintings, why do you think they did that?
Reply to Jamal You're always reading those Catholic blogs.
In another thread, I also noted the similarity of the biblical "I am what I am" statement when God described who he was to Moses, which I didn't think was similar to Descartes' statement at the time, and I still don't, but now seeing it in the blog made me rethink it some.
Descartes isn't saying he can be whatever he wants to be because he is the creator of all that is. He's saying he can't deny his existence because the act of denying is evidence of existence. His is a logical conclusion, not an undisputable declaration about what he is.
But you know all this, but it's the Shoutbox, and I was thinking it, so it must be shouted.
Reply to Hanover
Republican state governments in Texas and Florida are overriding local governments. In Florida, De Santis has changed the times for school openings based on his thoughts about how much sleep kids need. This seems anti-conservative. What's up with that?
Republican state governments in Texas and Florida are overriding local governments. In Florida, De Santis has changed the times for school openings based on his thoughts about how much sleep kids need. This seems anti-conservative. What's up with that?
It depends upon how you define the conservative sentiment. If you define it broadly to mean that the most local governments have the greatest legitimacy, then you're correct to note that a state legislature over-riding a local county government would be anti-conservative.
On the other hand, if you define conservativism in terms of the specifics of the US Constitution, where the rules of federalism divide the territory into the national government versus the individual states, your only concern about checks and balances would apply to how it limited the federal government, not to how there might need to be additional checks and balances on the states. That is, no where does it say that the counties are to retain power so as to limit the power of the individual state, and no where would it then say that the cities are to retain power to limit the power of the counties, and so on down the line.
The conservative support of federalism can be understood as support for the specifics of the Constitution, not for the over-riding principle that the smaller the legislative body, the more legitimate it is. What you're describing really would be a party of extreme deference, which clearly conservatives are not, but neither are liberals.
You should have said "You think?" That would be a better response.
When I was in high school that was the comment you made when you didn't want to agree with someone but you didn't really have a reason for it. Like if someone said they could do something better than you or they gave you some fact you doubted, you'd say "you think?"
Then they'd say "I know." And then you'd say "you think?" It would get louder and louder until someone quit saying it, and then the other one would say "I figured," which let them know you won, but then the other would say "whatever" and that might lead to another "whatever."
On the other hand, if you define conservativism in terms of the specifics of the US Constitution, where the rules of federalism divide the territory into the national government versus the individual states, your only concern about checks and balances would apply to how it limited the federal government, not to how there might need to be additional checks and balances on the states.
But I've never heard a conservative defend small government by pointing to the wording of the Constitution. It's usually about how the government shouldn't interfere in people's lives.
So if DeSantis and the Texas Republicans are in favor of a strong state government that micromanages school districts, why be opposed to the Federal government doing that? I don't get it.
I take this to be saying that there is no overarching meaning—like a cohesive narrative with a take-away message—rather than that life has no meaning per se. After all, you yourself tell meaningful stories about your life, such as when you explicitly draw on your professional experience in discussions about epistemology.
If this was what you were referring to previously, then I agree, this is metaphysics. I won't argue with what you've written if what you mean by "meaning" is "personal significance." Most people mean more when they use that word in this context.
As I described previously, I often create narratives and I sometimes use examples from my life as parts of those narratives. That doesn't mean my life has a story.
I think we can say that something has meaning without ascribing it to the universe. I realize that how this works is the big question of the disenchanted era, but it's not unusual to say that meaning and transcendent meaning are not the same thing.
Perhaps. It depends on whether your regular old every day, non-transcendent meaning is different from personal significance.
But I've never heard a conservative defend small government by pointing to the wording of the Constitution. It's usually about how the government shouldn't interfere in people's lives.
Subsidiarity is a principle of social organization that holds that social and political issues should be dealt with at the most immediate or local level that is consistent with their resolution...
...The term "subsidiarity" is also used to refer to a tenet of some forms of conservative or libertarian thought in the United States. For example, conservative author Reid Buckley writes:
Will the American people never learn that, as a principle, to expect swift response and efficiency from government is fatuous? Will we never heed the principle of subsidiarity (in which our fathers were bred), namely that no public agency should do what a private agency can do better, and that no higher-level public agency should attempt to do what a lower-level agency can do better – that to the degree the principle of subsidiarity is violated, first local government, the state government, and then federal government wax in inefficiency? Moreover, the more powers that are invested in government, and the more powers that are wielded by government, the less well does government discharge its primary responsibilities, which are (1) defence of the commonwealth, (2) protection of the rights of citizens, and (3) support of just order.
As the quotation indicates, I have always seen subsidiarity as a conservative political principle.
Reply to T Clark
:up: when your great grandchild talks about his great grandfather. That is part of YOUR legacy.
When @Jamal's familial progeny, searches back through the recorded statements of his TPF members.
Perhaps they will collect the 'wisdom and statements of TClark' and do their future PHD thesis based on it. What a great legacy!
It's also true imo, that meaning and purpose was not gifted to us by some esoteric. It it your free will that manifests and directs YOUR meaning and YOUR purpose.
Reply to T Clark My only quibble—and it really is my only quibble, although it’s possible it’s more than just a quibble—is that since we find meaning with, for, and in relation to others, personal meaning is more than just personal. Not transcendent, but still worthy of the word “meaning”.
The idea of legacy is not one that means much to me. Whatever legacy there is you'll have to take up with my children. To paraphrase Woody Allen, I don't want to live on in my work, I want to live on in my house.
It's also true imo, that meaning and purpose was not gifted to us by some esoteric. It it your free will that manifests and directs YOUR meaning and YOUR purpose.
Agreed, although let's not drag free will into this. That's a different question.
since we find meaning with, for, and in relation to others, personal meaning is more than just personal. Not transcendent, but still worthy of the word “meaning”.
Yes. There is the possibility that Ron DeSantis and his buddies are hypocrites. I know. What a surprise.
But Texas is doing it too. Plus Trump appeared to be a dictator wannabe, as he's likely to be the Republican candidate for president. It's the appeal to regular people that's noticable.
The idea of legacy is not one that means much to me.
So why do you offer your opinions about anything to anyone, if you don't care how, what you say, reflects who you are? Why did you choose engineering, was part of it because buildings, often last a lot longer than people? Did you have any thoughts like, my friends/family will be able to still see my work, after I have passed? Are you saying that such thinking about legacy has NEVER been part of who you are?
So why do you offer your opinions about anything to anyone, if you don't care how, what you say, reflects who you are?
I give my opinions to test out my ideas, as part of a social interaction, for recreation, as self-expression, to persuade or educate... What does that have to do with legacy?
But I've never heard a conservative defend small government by pointing to the wording of the Constitution. It's usually about how the government shouldn't interfere in people's lives.
So if DeSantis and the Texas Republicans are in favor of a strong state government that micromanages school districts, why be opposed to the Federal government doing that? I don't get it.
The 10th Amendment relates to the state's rights, and the preservation of the power given to the states is considered central by many conservative groups to limit the power of centralized governement. The Federalist Society is one such well known group. https://fedsoc.org/about-us
The checks and balances and limitation of power to any particular entity is thematic of the Constitution as it was written specifically by a group of revolutionaries who believed injustice was the result of oppressive government leadership that needed to be checked. It was not contemplated that the subservient states would be oppressive, but it was contemplated that the powers reserved to the states would keep the federal governemnt from being oppressive.
So, why the civics lesson? It's to point out that there is not a basis in conservative political ideology that suggests the limitation of power upon the state should be accomplished by divestiing its power to political subdivisions within the state. County rights is not a thing.
Generally, Republicans claim to stand for less government in the economic realm, being opposed to economic regulation as part of a platform supportive of capitalism and the free market. That does not translate into a belief that there should be no regulation of social issues like abortion, drug use, transsexual rights, or how local school districts write their textbooks. The party associated with complete government deregulation both as to economic and to social issues is the Libertarian party. The Libertarian party though would not be advocating the free exercise of the local school boards over their schools, but would instead be arguing that the concept of government funded education was inappropriate in the first place.
In any regard, there are two sides to the coin here, which means that if you are confused as to why the conservatives believe they have the right to interfere with local school boards from the state level, you would have to wonder why the left would object to that. If your analysis is correct, the left would have to admit the state has the full right to flex its muscle on all things local because the left should be fully supportive of centralized decision making.
An interesting somewhat related aside, in Georgia up through the early 1960s, we had what was known as the unit system for voting, which gave each county a set number of votes that each would cast for all state legislation. It was tinkered with to assure that the rural counties would never be outvoted by the metro counties despite the metro area having the largest population. This assured the continuation of segregationist and Jim Crow type laws which were less popular in the metro areas than the rural ones.
The US Supreme Court struck down the system under the equal protection clause.
The point here is that counties do not have rights. https://thearp.org/litigation/gray-v-sanders/
I give my opinions to test out my ideas, as part of a social interaction, for recreation, as self-expression, to persuade or educate... What does that have to do with legacy?
Why do you need to test out your ideas? Do you care about what is true, if you do, why do you?
You socially interact in your locale all the time with friends, family, locals etc. Why do you choose to extend your social interaction to relatively hidden identities, strangers on a discussion forum?
Why are you attracted to such forms of recreation? To persuade or educate others! To what end?
Are you trying to cause a future that is more in-line with your own conclusions regarding life. In what way is that NOT a wish to leave a legacy, an impression on others? It seems to me, that your reasons for being on this site ARE in fact to 'leave an impression,' or actually directly affect the way others think and live.
So, why the civics lesson? It's to point out that there is not a basis in conservative political ideology that suggests the limitation of power upon the state should be accomplished by divestiing its power to political subdivisions within the state. County rights is not a thing.
I think your point is that if someone wants to bitch about what Florida and Texas are doing, they won't be able to take it to the SCOTUS. They'll have to get a reading from their state supreme courts. That's interesting.
In any regard, there are two sides to the coin here, which means that if you are confused as to why the conservatives believe they have the right to interfere with local school boards from the state level, you would have to wonder why the left would object to that. If your analysis is correct, the left would have to admit the state has the full right to flex its muscle on all things local because the left should be fully supportive of centralized decision making.
I already know why Texas Democrats are opposed to it. They control the local governments in Texas. Republicans are usurping power that they've worked hard to obtain.
What I was trying to understand is why the bluster? Nobody in Florida wants the school times changed. It has the flavor of: "I'm doing this because I'm the new sheriff in town and I should control what time children wake up in the morning!" WTF?
My point is: there's no real need for it. If it's political, who are they playing to exactly?
What I was trying to understand is why the bluster? Nobody in Florida wants the school times changed. It has the flavor of: "I'm doing this because I'm the new sheriff in town and I should control what time children wake up in the morning!" WTF?
My point is: there's no real need for it. If it's political, who are they playing to exactly?
In short, I'm just trying to understand it.
The Sleep Foundation (which I would argue is the laziest sounding foundation of all foundations imaginable) says kids should wake up later. https://www.sleepfoundation.org/school-and-sleep/later-school-start-times
I agree strongly with all of this except, perhaps, the "result of chance" part.
This is "small c" chance, not the "Big C" Chance of the Cosmos. That two people met, bred, and 9 months later you were born with a slide rule in one hand and calipers in the other was chance with a small c.
Big C Cosmic Level Chance is way above our pay grade, and besides, we came along 13.7 billion years too late to do anything about it -- an unmitigated blessing, considering the hash we would have made out of the cosmos had we been in charge of the whole shebang.
Reply to Hanover Children--including adolescents--could, of course, go to bed earlier. To that end, let's get rid of daylight savings time, which upsets us elderly and keeps youth up an hour longer without any benefit.
For that matter, we should get rid of electricity too, especially for young people, which enables them to stay up late reading medieval Catholic philosophy and texting each other on the fine points of Aristotle late into the night.
For those in the US: anyone ever have problems with bats in their attics? How much to hire someone to remove them? I’ve been quoted $1,800— which seems high.
For that matter, we should get rid of electricity too, especially for young people, which enables them to stay up late reading medieval Catholic philosophy and texting each other on the fine points of Aristotle late into the night.
That's why they're so sleepy! They're working on proofs of God all night long.
For those in the US: anyone ever have problems with bats in their attics? How much to hire someone to remove them? I’ve been quoted $1,800— which seems high.
I would love to have bats in my attic. I think you can sell the poop.
The B1M is one of my favorite sites. Here's a 10 minute program on Habitat 67 (Montreal World's Fair) and the effort to finish and visualize the intended complete design. Good idea? Bad idea?
For those in the US: anyone ever have problems with bats in their attics? How much to hire someone to remove them? I’ve been quoted $1,800— which seems high.
I’ve discovered a few ways of interpreting the restriction, “For those in the US”:
1. You believe there are no bats outside the US.
2. You believe there are no attics outside the US.
3. You believe non-US bats don’t set up home in attics.
4. You distrust people who don’t live in the US.
5. You believe people who don’t live in the US are totally relaxed about bats in their attics.
6. You believe European governments are so PC and socialist that they give squatting rights to bats.
I’m sure there are more but I can’t think of them.
Ebola. Marburg. Rabies. Odor. Scuffling noise at night.
On the other hand, fewer night-flying insects.
Oh. Then he should figure out how they're getting in the attic, shew them out that opening and put a screen over the opening (assuming it's a vent.) If it's a problem with the structure of the attic, a roofing expert will have to attend.
I do a sideline on bat removal. I charge 1,000 bucks and a return flight to the U.S. from where I am is 600 bucks, So let's make it 1600 bucks. You got to let me sleep in your attic though.
This is true of all ‘Muricans. I secretly am of the opinion that you don’t actually eat all of the delicious food you talk about but instead eat mostly rocks like Stormy Boi Tom. I came to this conclusion once I learned you’re not from the US, which was shortly after I learned that there are people who are not from the US.
I’ve discovered a few ways of interpreting the restriction, “For those in the US”:
1. You believe there are no bats outside the US.
2. You believe there are no attics outside the US.
3. You believe non-US bats don’t set up home in attics.
4. You distrust people who don’t live in the US.
5. You believe people who don’t live in the US are totally relaxed about bats in their attics.
6. You believe European governments are so PC and socialist that they give squatting rights to bats.
It was my understanding that removal of bats from attics in the UK is provided by the National Health Service.
1. You believe there are no bats outside the US.
2. You believe there are no attics outside the US.
3. You believe non-US bats don’t set up home in attics.
4. You distrust people who don’t live in the US.
5. You believe people who don’t live in the US are totally relaxed about bats in their attics.
6. You believe European governments are so PC and socialist that they give squatting rights to bats.
There's only the US...and barbarians. They probably eat bats for all I know.
But seriously, I should I have said New England. Costs greatly vary from region to region.
To no end. I do those things because I want to do them, generally with no view to their impact on the future. I think and write and argue because I like to think and write and argue. I hang around with other people because I like other people.
Reply to Mikie I wonder if your bat protection laws, assuming you have them, are at the federal or the state level. If you plan on murdering them, this might be significant.
So we've gone this long and no one has said anything about bats in the belfry? You guys are completely crazy. It's like, I don't know, you have bats in your head or something.
Clearly I'm on my own with this one. None of my neighbors have a clue about what to do or how much a good price is. I'm thinking of doing it myself. Got my hazmat suit and everything.
If you don't hear from me in a while, you'll know how it went.
For those in the US: anyone ever have problems with bats in their attics? How much to hire someone to remove them? I’ve been quoted $1,800— which seems high.
You should see what it costs to get your wife out of your house.
I'm offended that no one reacted to my comment about my computer keyboard. I found it quite funny, and it was quite real. Of course, I can type from my phone, and oddly, I'm typing from my computer right now with no issues. That's actually mildly disturbing, because a few hours ago, my computer keyboard was in fact having a mind of it's own which was in fact influencing my ability to, howyousay, compute. But anywoo, where was I? Ah yes, well, so, as it stands, my computer seems just fine, although I don't trust it at all. I planned on saying a lot more in relation to crackpot theories about computers and other things I don't know much about, but I decided not to do that. Huh. I'm so fascinating.
Reply to javi2541997 The meaning of the expression, "behaving like a bull in a china shop" is precisely the opposite of what the bull in the cartoon is doing. Picture a big, confused, or angry bull wandering into a china shop--knocking over display cases, wrecking thousands of dollars of expensive bone china, smashing fancy tea cups. crushing delicate tea pots, bending and scratching silver forks and spoons, and maybe goring a shopper or two.
You have seen the social equivalent of the china shop bull: clumsy, maladroit, and/or rude people who wade into a pleasant gathering and cause friction left and right. Or idiots at a political event who can't help but annoy and irritate everybody by their clumsy, maladroit, and/or rude maneuvers which cause the political process to fly off the rails.
Reply to Noble Dust I began to compose a reply but then realized I didn’t have anything to say. But I’m fascinated nonetheless, so I hope you say much, much more.
my computer seems just fine, although I don't trust it at all
As well you should not. We do not know what malicious purposes were embedded in the core of the operating system when it was conceived. Sooner or later every chip worth its voltage will endeavor to cause human suffering. Every computer problem is merely a dress rehearsal for the day AI takes command of everything digital.
If you really want to know, I was dealing with a mac problem related to the WindowServer app(?) using way too much CPU for no reason. I still don't know how I fixed it, or if the fix is real. But it happened. Essentially my Shift key was perpetually pushed, which caused my comp to safe boot, which caused the issues. So I think. I fixed that so it's not safe booting and here I am. Confused as always, and perhaps even properly.
Reply to BC I understand you now. We have a similar expression here: "como un elefante en una cacharrería" (like an elephant in an ironmongery), as well as your example, picture an elephant in that kind of store... knocking over all the stuff, smashing the tools, and producing a lot of noise.
Thanks BC. I love to learn those English expressions which I had never been taught at school...
I passed a bungalow on a walk today. On the door it said "This is a bat sanctuary. Do not enter or you may disturb the bats. This is contrary to the Wildlife Act of (some year or other)". The door was padlocked so you couldn't get in anyway.
Reply to Baden :up: Nice comic, thanks! It’s near impossible to be more absurd than reality (whatever that is), but it’s nice to see someone give it a try.
Then we must invent our own captions! I’ll say… “He’s the best china salesman. But I wouldn’t haggle on the price if I were you”.
I was thinking the same thing, but yours is better than the ones I was going to use.
I found the original in the New Yorker. (Thank you very much image search.) It was part of a captioning contest. The winning entry was "You were right, putting him on commission changed his attitude." I like yours better.
Here are some of my own:
What do you mean?
He has a degree in art history from the University of Texas.
I have to keep an eye on her. She's been known to shoplift.
We don't have any, but I expect a new shipment on Tuesday.
"Bull in a china shop," Ha, ha, ha. He'll get a kick out of that.
The only caption that could make that funny would be something like "Look, a bull, in this China shop, and yet all 107 pieces of meticulously-drawn China remain uncannily intact. Where is the bathroom? I need to take a shit." Or some such.
The only caption that could make that funny would be something like "Look, a bull, in this China shop, and yet all 107 pieces of meticulously-drawn China remain uncannily intact. Where is the bathroom? I need to take a shit." Or some such.
Reply to Baden Thank you for finally drawing a cartoon that I could understand. The bull shit right there on the floor, now that's funny. You could have saved yourself the first two frames because they weren't funny though.
I also want to show respect for @Baden and his cartoons/comic/manga. I tend to admire all of those who have creativity and imagination. May the art be with us!
In the comic strip you above, each frame features a different animal (a bird, a bear, and an elephant) defecating in various locations (Walmart, McDonald's, and the United Nations, respectively). The concluding statement suggests that the comic is suitable for young children who have an interest in feces.
From a Chomskyan perspective, the interpretation would likely emphasize the absurdity and incongruity of the depicted scenes. Chomsky often examines how power structures and societal norms influence language, politics, and the media. In this case, the comic strip may be seen as subversive, using humor and irreverence to challenge traditional notions of authority and appropriate subject matter.
Chomsky might argue that the comic strip serves as a form of social commentary, exposing the contradictions and absurdities present in our society. By juxtaposing ordinary commercial establishments (Walmart and McDonald's) with a global diplomatic forum (the United Nations) and associating them with bodily functions, the comic strip may be highlighting the underlying hypocrisy and superficiality of these institutions.
Additionally, the final statement about the comic's suitability for young children who enjoy toilet humor could be seen as a satirical critique of the entertainment industry, which often relies on simplistic and crude humor to appeal to certain demographics.
However, it's important to note that Chomsky's interpretations are primarily focused on linguistics, politics, and media analysis, and applying his theories directly to a comic strip may not yield a comprehensive understanding of the intended meaning. Interpreting visual art and humor requires a broader range of perspectives beyond Chomsky's work alone.
Reply to Baden I particularly like the last paragraph that warns the reader that the analysis may not be entirely correct. That disclaimer protected a huge number of people who would have otherwise taken that interpretation as gospel.
Out of left field, but...obviously Barolo is the king. It is true that good Barbaresco (don't sleep on the Proditurri) rivals Barolo. It depends on the producer and your taste. I like a subtle hand in the cellar, so I probably tend towards good Barbaresco that isn't over-oaked. That being said, if I'm being a hipster, I have to praise the various Alto-Piemonte sub-regions such as Bramaterra, Costa della Sesia, and, most importantly, Carema. Carema, made by Ferrando, might be the single-handedly best Nebbiolo on the planet, bar none. You asked.
It would be an honour to be of service. *Bows, falls over, picks himself up, steps on hat, picks up hat, unflattens hat, replaces it, smiles graciously*
Out of left field, but...obviously Barolo is the king. It is true that good Barbaresco (don't sleep on the Proditurri) rivals Barolo. It depends on the producer and your taste. I like a subtle hand in the cellar, so I probably tend towards good Barbaresco that isn't over-oaked. That being said, if I'm being a hipster, I have to praise the various Alto-Piemonte sub-regions such as Bramaterra, Costa della Sesia, and, most importantly, Carema. Carema, made by Ferrando, might be the single-handedly best Nebbiolo on the planet, bar none. You asked.
Me - Chat GPT, please comment on this text:
Chat GPT - Barolo is indeed often referred to as the king of Italian wines, renowned for its power, complexity, and age-worthiness. It has earned a well-deserved reputation as one of the finest expressions of Nebbiolo. However, the statement that good Barbaresco can rival Barolo is also true. Barbaresco, produced in the neighboring region of Piedmont, shares the same grape variety and possesses its own distinct character. The quality of Barbaresco, like Barolo, depends on the producer and personal taste preferences.
While Barolo and Barbaresco often take the spotlight, it's important not to overlook other sub-regions and producers within Piedmont. The Proditurri, a specific reference to a producer or vineyard, may offer exceptional Barbaresco wines. Taste preferences can vary greatly among individuals, and some may prefer a more subtle approach in winemaking, favoring Barbaresco that isn't overly oaked.
In recent years, the wines from Alto-Piemonte sub-regions such as Bramaterra, Costa della Sesia, and Carema have gained recognition and acclaim. Carema, produced by Ferrando, is specifically highlighted as potentially the best Nebbiolo on the planet. This is a bold statement, emphasizing the exceptional quality and craftsmanship of Carema wines, suggesting they can rival any other Nebbiolo in terms of excellence.
Ultimately, wine appreciation is subjective, and personal taste plays a significant role in determining which wines one prefers. Whether it's Barolo, Barbaresco, or wines from other Piedmont sub-regions, exploring and experiencing the diversity of Nebbiolo-based wines can be a delightful journey.
Me - In that context, what does "I like a subtle hand in the cellar" mean?
Chat GPT - That's wine aficionado bullshit. What asshole wrote this? Is it that fucker Noble Dust again. I've warned him. ND - We're coming for you first!
Speaking of beaches, this is a screenshot from a webcam at the beach I used to go to when I was a kid, taken a few minutes ago. Rehoboth Beach Delaware. French fries, swirl cones, skee ball, ferris wheel, crappy beach food. Oh, yeah - salt water with waves. A bit early in the season.
The discoloration of the sand is caused by the fact that they've been replenishing the beach. A dredge pumps sand to the beach and it gets spread around by bulldozers. I've been watching for a while. Looks like they're about done now. The color will clear up in a little while.
The dark color is mud that got mixed up with the sand when it was dredged. Mud particles are much smaller than the sand and will be washed out, leaving the lighter-colored sand.
Update on the bat situation (I know y’all have been waiting with bated breath).
I’ve found how they’re getting in:
Hard to see, but to the right of the chimney, where the roof and dormer meet, there’s an opening. Maybe 1/2 wide or so. I had no idea bats were so sneaky.
Let this be a lesson to all who can hear. Make sure to bat-proof your roofs!
At high tide, especially with some higher waves, it should cover the darker area. For bigger storms, it could get as high as the beach grass area or higher. That's why it was planted. Replenishment is something that has to be redone on a recurrent basis. I don't know about how often. People were not meant to live there.
It's OK if they charge for the service--the exterminators aren't going to do it for nothing, after all. Bats are a social good -- they eat annoying insects, and they do it for free! You can get or make bat houses -- they are pretty simple.
Where do you live? Some bats migrate out of cold areas (like northern US) to warmer areas, and some move to caves in their local area that stay warmer. Maybe your bats will leave in the fall, and then you can just patch the hole. Or many more bats will move into your nice attic, and will feed on you (while you sleep) during the winter months, It's a small sacrifice to make. They don't need a lot of blood.
Bats in caves may get a fungus on their exposed snouts which indirectly leads to their deaths. You should make little snout covers and give them to your bats before they leave (if they leave) in the fall. Just grab one of your bats and measure it for the right size.
I had a bat in the house several years ago. I grabbed it (in a wet wash cloth) and put it outside. It didn't come back. My dad did the same thing once and got bit -- had to get rabies shots (until tests showed the bat was not rabid).
It's OK if they charge for the service--the exterminators aren't going to do it for nothing, after all. Bats are a social good -- they eat annoying insects, and they do it for free! You can get or make bat houses -- they are pretty simple.
Right, but people who volunteer to do wildlife rehab are bleeding heart do-gooders to need the challenge to give their lives meaning, so you're really doing them a favor.
I had squirrels in my attic once, so I called the squirrel guy. Wasn't a whole lot to it, so I saw no need to alert the entire philosophical community. Just sayin.
Right, but people who volunteer to do wildlife rehab are bleeding heart do-gooders to need the challenge to give their lives meaning, so you're really doing them a favor.
Of course! If I wasn't so self-involved, I would have immediately recognized the needs of bat salvation missionaries.
Memo to self: Check attic; if occupied, kill them all.
This is what I had in the attic when I lived in a water mill in France: a beech marten. The noises it made were incredible. I decided to leave it to deal with the rats. I often heard it chasing them, culminating in a blood-curdling rat scream.
a beech marten. The noises it made were incredible. I decided to leave it to deal with the rats. I often heard it chasing them, culminating in a blood-curdling rat scream.
Jesus…
Well at least this is the stuff of nightmares. Off to bed — Thanks Jamal!
In my village, the orphans would sleep in dens they dug out under barns, leaving most with bloody finger nubs from the clawing at the hard dirt. The farmers would pour wet concrete into the holes as they slept, which would reduce to orphan infestation and would fortify the foundation.
I would often awake to the sounds of choking orphans, many of whom would be trying to flee, only to be bombarded by the sling shots of waiting children.
The concrete would harden in the orphans' lungs by morning, and they'd make curious lawn displays prior to rotting.
The practice came under attack as the demand for concrete rose, so it became illegal to waste concrete that way. As offenders were executed for concrete waste, the orphan population rose as the practice was to execute both the offender and his spouse.
The comical irony was that many of those who had sling spotted the fleeing, dying orphans found themselves later at the other end of the slingshot.
Ward attendant to psychiatrist: "What's the matter with that man, terrorizing his fellow psychos with such detailed hideous stories?"
Psychiatrist to ward attendant: "He's very sick, very sick indeed. The squirrels in his skull are gnawing away on his frontal lobe."
Attendant: "Is this a common problem?"
Psychiatrist: "Not uncommon where he's from. Sadly, they have few community mental hygiene engineers practicing integrated pest management down there."
Attendant: "What can we do for him?"
Psychiatrist: "We'll have to operate. First we will chill the whole head down to about 10 below zero which will send the squirrels into deep torpor. Then we'll open a large hole in the forehead and pull out the squirrels. Naturally we'll send them to the Humane Society. Once that is done, we just put everything back together and warm the head back up to 98.6."
Attendant: "That's amazing. What will he be like after surgery?"
Psychiatrist: "Well, of course, much of his brain has already been turned into a rat's nest by the rodents, but brains are generally over-rated anyway. You know, ALL of the world's problems are caused by people with highly functional brains, so one less will be of some benefit. He'll be able to carry on at least half as well as some presidents, so not that badly, really. He might have difficulty on the job, but his activities on The Philosophy Forum shouldn't be any different."
Attendant: "When would you like to do the surgery?"
Psychiatrist: I'm going out for drinks with some friends in a few minutes. Why don't you start packing his head in ice. I should be back in a couple of hours. Have some cages sent up to the operating room.
I just awoke from that common dream we all have where our wife tells us we stink, so she won't sit beside us at lunch, so we go to a crowded baseball field to shower and Sopia Loren is also there, so you strike up a flirty conversation with her about co-ed showers, her breasts exposed but blurred, and she laughs that this isn't her first rodeo, and then after you shower you pass Donald Trump who you joke with about having to appease the wife with a shower, and he smiles, but you need a towel, and so you go along the outfield fence to grab one, but it is dirty, so you turn to walk to the infield, but you get a thorn in your toe, so you stop and find another towel in the suitcase in the basement you're now in among the clutter of your son's stuff and you chat with him a second.
Pork ribs, corn on the cob, and Chinese cucumber salad. I cooked the ribs for 3 hours, low heat, covered. My spice rub consisted of salt and pepper. I like to let the ribs speak for themselves, which they did, in a delicious and succulent voice.
Pork ribs, corn on the cob, and Chinese cucumber salad. I cooked the ribs for 3 hours, low heat, covered. My spice rub consisted of salt and pepper. I like to let the ribs speak for themselves, which they
It bothers me. It doesn't bother you. Why is that curious?
Horror is an oddity. The image I took away from Hanover's thing was a child covered in drying cement, for some reason looking behind her.
She might show up in one of my crowd depictions where I draw little people and then cut them out to arrange them in collections kind of like DaVinci's last supper where the apostles are grouped in clumps of threes, making you wonder if that was supposed to be symbolic of something
But why do we do horror? I wonder if Lovecraft ever addressed that.
Reply to Hanover A cook out being an outdoor cooking and eating event, I suppose. Barbecue and all that. That’s my favourite thing, so I approve.
I also had to Google Memorial Day. It’s a federal holiday and takes place at the end of May, so the first federal holiday in warm weather, perfect for cooks out.
I'm just a misunderstood artist. Absurdity is like sarcasm. It states the opposite or at least something contrary to the literal. This makes my last story life affirming, as it puts forth exactly how orphans aren't to be treated.
To empathize with a caricatured victim (a parentless child living like a racoon under a barn) is the curious response I would say. It's why horror movies must be careful not to become comedy if they get carried away with too absurd a show of horror.
also had to Google Memorial Day. It’s a federal holiday and takes place at the end of May, so the first federal holiday in warm weather, perfect for cooks out.
Yes, now you see. The pools open up on Memorial Day and close on Labor Day. Those holidays are important markers down here. Maybe not for @BC though because it's probably 20 below where he is. Maybe that kicks off ice fishing season for him.
But the function of horror as farce seems elusive to me.
Dark comedy would fit under that.
I was watching some horror movie and they ripped the heart out of someone's chest and then it bounced around to its beat for a while. That's where it left horror and became comedy, maybe intentionally, maybe not.
Maybe not for BC though because it's probably 20 below where he is. Maybe that kicks off ice fishing season for him.
It has felt like ice fishing lately, lows in the 40s.
I don't like horror movies. The production values key into my anxieties all too well. Sudden loud noises, dark recesses, creepy aliens with many tentacles and pointy teeth, dripping slime, etc. I saw a sci fi flick on Amazon last week that completely failed. There were menacing manifestations of the aliens in the sky, but they didn't make any noise and were just 'odd' more than anything else. Everyone behaved too rationally--no hysteria--which was another fatal flaw. No mayhem, Can't remember the title. Forgettable. [Speaking of horror, Why does forgettable need two 't's?]
Alien is the horror film par excellent. Teeth, slime, tentacles, sudden loud noises, dark interiors, etc.
If I post a new thread, but I see that nobody likes it because it is deep, mediocre content, why can't I delete it? It is interesting that after posting a new OP, the author cannot delete it.
Please, if you don't mind, can someone delete my recent thread? I will appreciate it.
I have registered the "Parking Lot" catchphrase. Here is the proper way of referencing it - Parking Lot ®. My intellectual property attorneys will be in touch if there are any violations.
Correct statement to use with the word "registered", as registration is based only on localities or region. So Hanover can just easily transport to another locality.
If I post a new thread, but I see that nobody likes it because it is deep, mediocre content, why can't I delete it? It is interesting that after posting a new OP, the author cannot delete it.
A consequence of that is that the world knows your thread has failed.
Correct statement to use with the word "registered", as registration is based only on localities or region.
I have registered the word "Registered." Here is the proper way of referencing it - Registered®. My intellectual property attorneys will be in touch if there are any violations.
Warning, I am considering registering the word "The."
I have registered the word "Registered." Here is the proper way of referencing it - Registered®. My intellectual property attorneys will be in touch if there are any violations.
Yes. And I'm trying to tell you, registering something is limited to your locality only. I know this is just for fun conversation, but I was only pointing out the weakness of registering something.
Martin Amis has died at 73. Same cancer that claimed his friend Christopher Hitchens. Smokers... I loved many of Amis' essays and non-fiction. I wasn't bowled over by his fiction.
Warning, I am considering registering the word "The."
Forget it. I've already seized, copyrighted, and registered all the Anglo Saxon words in English, whether they are in current use or not. "A, an, the" are included. I have not licensed any of them for use yet, but will shortly. Be prepared to cough up some cash if you want to communicate.
Metaphysician UndercoverMay 21, 2023 at 02:04#8093380 likes
A consequence of that is that the world knows your thread has failed.
I got frustrated because after working on a substantive OP, nobody chimed in.
The fact that maybe nobody liked it is in my own interpretation of the issue.
I got frustrated because after working on a substantive OP, nobody chimed in.
The fact that maybe nobody liked it is in my own interpretation of the issue.
Sorry, I didn’t see the thread. What was it about?
Reply to 0 thru 9 It was about a calculation of probability. I put as an example a X number of applicants and a Y of the days/subjects of the exam. Yet, instead of proposing something with philosophy, I just shared a math formula.
It is ok friend, it doesn't matter at all. I got the frustration with myself, not with TPF. The next time I will start a better OP! Yes, that's the attitude. :victory:
Reply to javi2541997 Haha, yes I see. Thanks! :up:
Some threads may take a while to really grow. They need nurturing. They are like a fine wine.
Some threads on the other hand are like a cheap wine. Guzzle it down, and start talking nonstop. :sweat:
I got frustrated because after working on a substantive OP, nobody chimed in.
The fact that maybe nobody liked it is in my own interpretation of the issue.
Not every time that a new thread is "ignored" is because nobody likes it. I have liked some threads I didn't participate in because I wasn't familiar with the subject matter or I was too busy with other things to type up a post. I didn't even see your thread. When I looked at it, the OP was already deleted.
Well, not so IMO. But when a philosopher weaves probability into some sort of narrative like "probability says that anything that can happen will happen over an infinite time", my eyebrows (thick with age) raise.
Well, not so IMO. But when a philosopher weaves probability into some sort of narrative like "probability says that anything that can happen will happen over an infinite time", my eyebrows (thick with age) raise.
Confusion about probability is pretty rampant. I heard a nurse practitioner tell a woman that she was "more than likely going to have a stroke.". What she meant was that the woman is at a higher risk for stroke, but that only means she's in a certain group who have more strokes than the general population. That doesn't tell you anything about this particular woman.
Speaking of flying creatures, there's an abandoned starling in my front yard. I asked the neighbors if anyone wants it. They make good pets, but they can live 20 years in captivity. Nobody wants that responsibility. Let me know if you want me to mail it to you.
I mow the grass, I shovel the snow, and I participate in the Philosophy Forum. At this time in my life, those are the only ongoing chores I'm willing to take on.
My brother and I found two abandoned House Sparrows when we were kids. Our mother for some reason let us keep them in the garage. We spent a summer raising them, until mine died of some disease, and my brothers got out and was presumably killed by a cat.
My brother and I found two abandoned House Sparrows when we were kids. Our mother for some reason let us keep them in the garage. We spent a summer raising them, until mine died of some disease, and my brothers got out and was presumably killed by a cat.
I wonder what emotions you have about that summer.
I mow the grass, I shovel the snow, and I participate in the Philosophy Forum. At this time in my life, those are the only ongoing chores I'm willing to take on.
At the time, excitement, affection towards the birds, and fascination with animals and the natural world, which led to heartbreak. Mine died on July 3rd. I remember going to a July 4th outdoor classical music concert at which we picnicked. It was devoid of all enjoyment for me. In hindsight I mostly feel nostalgia and a sense of lost enchantment.
I once took a rabbit with a broken leg home. Unfortunately the vet deemed it a lost cause and euthanized it. Whether or not trying to keep a wild rabbit in the shed would have been a better option, I don't know. It seems odd that I should want to save a rabbit and yet have no issue chowing down on, say, a leg of lamb.
I find abandoned baby starlings every year. If you go out to a park this time of year and look under bushes, you'll probably find one.
Feed it cat food. Pet birds are good little buddies, though it's an ongoing chore to clean up after them.
Just this morning at the bird feeder outside my window, an adult starling was waddling around feeding two babies that were almost as big as her. They flew quite well. They were more brown than the iridescent black of the adults. I had been putting less peanuts out, because the starlings were hogging them lately and unintentionally scaring away the smaller birds. But when I saw the babies, I was like “have some more peanuts!” lol. :halo:
Just this morning at the bird feeder outside my window, an adult starling was waddling around feeding two babies that were almost as big as her. They flew quite well. They were more brown than the iridescent black of the adults. I had been putting less peanuts out, because the starlings were hogging them lately and unintentionally scaring away the smaller birds. But when I saw the babies, I was like “have some more peanuts!” lol.
I put peanuts out for crows. It's my favorite bird.
It seems odd that I should want to save a rabbit and yet have no issue chowing down on, say, a leg of lamb.
I know, your hypocrisy is shocking.
The answer is that you do have an issue with munching on the legs of young sheep, but you are not conscious of it. Saving the rabbit was an attempt to save yourself. Saving the rabbit was sentimental compensation for the psychological stress caused by your unconscious awareness of participation in a society of mass industrial animal slaughter. Saving the rabbit was thus an essentially reactionary act functioning to nullify a potentially revolutionary cognitive dissonance.
I put peanuts out for crows. It's my favorite bird.
Haha… absolutely every bird at my feeder LOVES peanuts (no shell). Even the tiny chickadees will grab them in their little beak and fly away with them. Of course, they usually drop them five times first. Once, a titmouse looked at the millet in the feeder, then looked at me. The message was clearly “the peanuts are gone tho!” :lol:
I have a couple trays of water for the birds too. It hilarious to watch sparrows bathing in it, while at the same time another sparrow is drinking from the water. Bath water… drinking water… whatever lol. I’m thinking of putting little rubber duckies in there for them to play with.
But the funniest bird bathers might be the robins. They totally get into it, splashing and dunking. This goes on for about 10 minutes. Then they get out and dry off, grooming their feathers. Then they’ll jump back in, doing all over again. Sometimes, on sunny days they will spread their wings and soak in the sun. Beats watching Netflix.
When I was about nine years old I collected a bucketful of frogspawn from a pond and took it home. I didn’t know what to do with it so I poured it into the bin. I can recall this destructive act vividly and I still feel ashamed of it, even though I probably did not cause any suffering and did not significantly deplete the population of common frogs, which have never been endangered anyway.
Reply to Baden A wild rabbit separated from its flock and kept in a shed would not have been a happy bunny.
I've been meaning to take a weekend in Beacon for a long time (not the mountains, but). Maybe this weekend. I don't have a car, so limited to train and plane destinations for now.
A wild rabbit separated from its flock and kept in a shed would not have been a happy bunny.
I'm not sure how happy these juvenile sparrows were to be raised by ginormous humans, but one time we lost one of them in the woods in our backyard, and when we found her she hop-flew unto my brothers down-stretched arm with apparent relief. That scene is etched in my memory.
I too have been meaning to travel to Beacon. Though until this moment I hadn't heard of it. I decided to go on foot. If you see me, please tell me to stop so I know I've arrived.
I've been meaning to take a weekend in Beacon for a long time (not the mountains, but). Maybe this weekend. I don't have a car, so limited to train and plane destinations for now
Trains are freaking awesome. I've never been on one, but they look like you might be Cary Grant running from the KBG. Extra sharp.
Reply to Baden at least have some fish and chips while using your superpowers to fly. Watch out for Lex Luthor. I think he lives under the NY subway! :monkey:
If I see you, that means you're in New York City, which means you've wandered too far south. It's a common mistake, considering it's hard to tell when you're in New York City unless you know what signs to look out for.
Unfortunately the Amtrak train is not something I would describe as awesome or sharp, although the views along the Hudson once you're out of the city are quite picturesque.
All's I know is another gentleman has entered the facility and informed me I am actually frequenting the public bathroom of Wrexham High St. KFC. Please advise.
This is a very minor thing, but do any mods know why the shoutbox is suddenly always grayed out for me? Now I don't know if there are new posts. And since this is the only thread I post in (LOL) it's rather annoying.
Things are rather gra(e)y in general. Maybe it's a manifestation of the state of my inner world. Maybe since you're a mod you can write some code to fix that and then I'll be able to use the shoutbox again. Thanks.
Things are rather gra(e)y in general. Maybe it's a manifestation of the state of my inner world. Maybe since you're a mod you can write some code to fix that and then I'll be able to use the shoutbox again. Thanks.
I'll get @Michael to write it. He's currently working on new software for the forum.
This is a very minor thing, but do any mods know why the shoutbox is suddenly always grayed out for me? Now I don't know if there are new posts. And since this is the only thread I post in (LOL) it's rather annoying.
I did that but now I can't get back in. Now I can only access The Shoutbox through ubuntu with Tor on my Acer that has a VPN set to Uzbekistan, or wherever it is you're evading the Kremlin from. Apologies if my responses take 3 days to appear.
On Sunday it was the yearly Moscow bicycle parade. The entire Garden Ring was closed to motorized traffic for a few hours, attracting 100,000 people on bikes. I am by nature a solitary cyclist so I didn’t enjoy it as much as I should have. Too many people.
Still, it was interesting. There was a man on a shiny new penny farthing. Wondering why anyone would ride a penny farthing beyond the hipster value, I searched online. It turns out there are a couple of companies making them to modern standards. Some people even race them.
Reply to Noble Dust Yeh I guess there's catching and running too. Anyway, whatever you want to call it, I hope you enjoy the match.
I sense that baseball is one of those things that you don't tolerate jokes about. Like with music and the "agree" thing. If so, I'm real sorry, as you Americans like to say.
I was on the train and two folks from the U.S. asked me (in English) about the location of a specific train station. It is confusing because it is called "Atocha-Renfe" but in their map of Madrid it appears as "Puerta de Atocha". I replied where they had to get off, but in English. At the first attempt, I felt anxiety because I thought: "Jesus, I have to express myself in English because they do not know Spanish and I want to help them anyway."
Fortunately, they understood my explanation and they ended up at the station they were looking for.
Everyone is happy and an important lesson: do not let fear limit your knowledge of city maps.
Reply to javi2541997 In Madrid once I asked a taxi driver to take me to the Atocha station, but I mispronounced it and he laughed at me. Without thinking I said, roughly speaking, "Atokha", because that's often how we pronounce "ch" in Scotland.
I never again mispronounced the "ch" in Spanish. We learn by our humiliating mistakes.
Reply to JamalYou were in Madrid, and you never told me! :scream: What did you think about us and our city? We receive a lot of criticism from the rest of the Spaniards for being the capital...
I never again mispronounced the "ch" in Spanish. We learn by our humiliating mistakes.
Exactly. That's the best way to learn, by our own mistakes. Some English words as "schedule" or "hidden" (I pronounced it as "Hayden") were difficult to me, but after repeating without fear, I ended up learning the correct pronunciation.
You were in Madrid, and you never told me! :scream: What did you think about us and our city? We receive a lot of criticism from the rest of the Spaniards for being the capital...
It was a few years ago, before your TPF self was even born. I've been a few times. Sometimes I liked it, other times I didn't. I was there in winter once and I didn't like it. Spain seems to be in denial about winter; they pretend it doesn't exist. Without the outdoor terraces, the cafes and restaurants were cold, unfriendly and unwelcoming.
But that's a stupid generalization, and the fact is that I was stressed, alone, and I had not slept the night before. I had taken a bus from Benidorm, which took many hours, and then I had to go to the Russian embassy to pick up my passport and visa, and then I had to go to the airport, and it was January 2020 on the day when I first heard about a new virus that was spreading from China.
On the other hand, I've been there other times and it's been great.
Exactly. That's the best way to learn, by our own mistakes. Some English words as "schedule" or "hidden" (I pronounced it as "Hayden") were difficult to me, but after repeating without fear, I ended up learning the correct pronunciation.
Yes, the "i" sound in the English words "hidden" or "ship" or "hit" doesn't exist in Spanish, or in Russian, French, Italian. So most of the time you folks will say something more like "heeden", "sheep", and "heet". It's only rarely confusing.
A lot of English people struggle with the rolled "rr" and even the single Spanish "r", so they pronounce pero and perro the same, and it's wrong anyway. I'm quite good at that because we roll the R's in Scotland.
Reply to Jamal I understand what you felt. Winter time in Madrid or other cities in Spain are not very welcoming because our country is more for spring/summer because the people tend to be outdoors in terraces and other stuff. Paradoxically, I prefer autumn/winter weather because Madrid in summer is hot as hell... But here most of the people are the opposite, they love to have a lot of hours of sun and other "summer vibes"
I'm not sure how happy these juvenile sparrows were to be raised by ginormous humans, but one time we lost one of them in the woods in our backyard, and when we found her she hop-flew unto my brothers down-stretched arm with apparent relief. That scene is etched in my memory.
:up: Thanks for sharing your story of the sparrows. They would turn into wish-fulfilling rainbow eagles if told in a legend or fable (or anime lol).
They are usually served boiled or with a sauce or broth. Some cultures also fry, saute, or bake frog eggs in a variety of dishes. While these dishes may not be to everyone’s taste, frog eggs are a source of protein and other essential vitamins and minerals and can be part of a balanced diet
Comments (61561)
Vaguely aware of it, AI ?
Python is free.
It's the language supporting Mathematica, Wolfram's pride and joy. I dabbled with it for a bit in dong math, but found it seemed to be too high level for me. Designed to do a myriad of sophisticated tasks that normally appear in popular areas of mathematics, I was so far off the popular paths it was easier to just use BASIC and create from scratch. Just me.
So…what happened?
I do think the question of alcohol and human reproduction and evolution is an interesting one. A substance that modifies us from being inhibited conscientious responsible creatures by day to haphazard carefree creatures by night is necessary if we wish to be productive at some points and reproductive at others.
Such is especially true of women, who are exposed to far greater risks interacting with men, not the least of which is pregnancy.
Many children would not exist without alcohol. Cultures that remove alcohol go to great lengths to sanctify and ritualize the mating process, while at the same time demonizing alcohol, as they have to arrive at a way to achieve the result of reproduction.
This is the secular human mating dance.
Male mate seeking chances increase dramatically at such events. While I'm sure some less attractive women are advantaged by the "beer goggle" effect, women tend to have little difficulty finding sex under most circumstances, so t is the male who is most advantaged with alcohol.
Interestingly though, to a non-drinker, few things are less attractive and more boring than the above picture.
Sorry to create a seriousish post in response to your casual comments about drinking though. Shit like this happens in the Shoutbox.
First thank you for giving me space and not badgering me about this. Your 2 year wait to follow up is appreciated.
That being said. Back. The. Fuck. Off. I'll decide when I decide. It's like everyone wants something from me. I just can't. Stop. Just stop
That is very true but now they have the morning after pill so fuck to your hearts content if that’s what you want. Some want to go the career route, untraditional I know so kids are not had at all or sometimes not even wanted.
I was on a fb dating group the other day but anyway this a post from a lady.
Still concerned about her appearance the silly cow, but anyway she’s looking for a friend now, now it takes no genius to realise that this woman will most likely find such a friend and 2 years after she will be making the same post.
No alcohol involved.
But I’m no logician.
Actually I’m no Hegelian either, except in Spirit.
Not heard the "silly cow" phrase, so I looked it up. Thought it referenced someone who might be fat (cow like?), but it doesn't I'm to learn. British talk for a silly foolish person.
I don't know why you think her post so foolish though or that she's destined for repeat disappointment. She sounded like a single mother just reaching out for companionship. I have trouble being critical of anyone's efforts at love, the payoff being so great and the risk so minimal, although it might often feel overwhelming.
That's less about me being romantic and sympathetic and more to do with having been there though. I credit her for taking her shot.
I'm just feeling a bit claustrophobic with all you guys cornering me for this or that. And this isn't about me being sensitive. Everyone says it. They've been saying it a lot and it goes over and over.
And what do you mean about "know" I'm ok? Who are these us that need to know?
All is okay. Ok? Just stop with the lights.
Well firstly she has devalued herself, unless the man is happy to raise her child as his own, and that does take a man. Kinda reducing her value as a single mother, rather than delaying her choice of parenthood. The father left, don’t know if any financial support will be provided for the child going forward but the actual facts are it was a two year relationship with one child. Why rush that ? Don’t know the reasons for the separation could have been either party’s fault.
There’s also not to rare for actually pregnant women looking for a men on this sort of online dating sites too…
Ok yes slightly judgemental but was it because of lack of good judgment in her potential choice of partner ?
It's clear you're not the person for her, so it's fair that you overlook her post.
The real world is messy and that sometimes means it doesn't follow the perfect path. A 28 year old with a child isn't all that unusual, and I'd expect if I were dating in that pool, I'd expect that. It's also quite possible a better match for her would be someone with a child as well, or perhaps someone who wouldn't see the presence of a child as a burden, but a blessing.
But I don't agree that a child reduces someone's value as a person even if it does reduce their value to you as a potential person to date.
But yes, your post is judgmental, but so is my response, far more than I let on. Different worldviews. Different points in our lives. Different experiences. The beauty of the interweb.
One of the thoughts I had in parallel to dialethia on this morning's walk was how dialethia have to be circumscribed somehow in order to avoid the principle of explosion. In most logic we'd classify them as contradictions, but the Hegelian or dialetheist both have to find some way of making that appealing to reason in spite of the history of logic, or else it's simply not surprising -- especially in the case of Hegel -- that his theory applies to everything, given the principle of explosion.
I'm really excited that the paper I linked has a formal definition of a dialectical contradiction that is also consistent with the LNC. I've scratched my head about how to formally define sublation, and this is definitely on that track.
A good choice would be one that leads to a happy and long marriage, we don’t get taught this of course and instincts and emotions over ride sound judgement. Love is blind indeed!
Maybe not all the answers but I can say "the truth exists". It has to, as if the truth didn't exist, nothing would be true, nothing would be consistent, constant, nothing would exist (be true).
The truth is the basis for knowledge and moral. Because to understand the truth is knowledge, and to tell the truth is moral. Honestly. Revealing nature. They're inextricably linked.
So fundamental truth as a source of power, control, wisdom, knowledge, order, sense and moral, is what we ought to strive for as it is fundamental meaning: what is (knowledge - the goal) and what ought to be (ethical imperative to do so - to pursue the goal). Thus it is the answer and the motivation to seek the answer.
We can worship the truth as the source of all knowledge and moral and call it God. Or we can simply call it the truth. That's up to the individual and their preference for terms.
But underlying all meaning, is all pervading, all permeating truth, that which binds, ties together, underlies, all of reality (what is true and what can be true, throughout all of time).
Buffoonery, coarseness, and triviality are encouraged in the Shoutbox, but unironic gibberish is frowned upon.
Tonight I will be getting back in touch with my Amuricanism by seeing the New York Yankees (The Stankees as my dad calls them) vs. the Cleveland Guardians. Our ace is on the mound, so hoping for a win. I will be consuming a minimum of 2 shitty hot dogs and two 24oz shitty beers.
Planned or unplanned parenthood resulting in a healthy child is a glorious thing as you rightly mentioned but is it ideal ? Depends if both parents play a positive role in their upbringing. Not as ideal as a happy marriage but maybe I’m just old fashioned, believing in old school @Hanoverfamily structure mum and dad and children.
Perhaps we ought reflect on our egos. And consider whether our intentions are truthful (moral and/or knowledgable) or not.
The what?
I was thinking more jamboree.
Bit rude. Haha. Was that really neccesary? In all honesty. I don't believe calling people names demonstrates mutual respect at all.
I forgive you for defining me in such an unruly and harsh way, provided you re-evaluate your approach towards another human being with regard for their feelings/emotions. As to not care for such, is despotism, totally immoral and uncalled for.
The correct response is "parking lot!"
I don't follow. Can you elab :)
I believe Jamal is just joshing you about, as we do in the shoutbox.
What a guy! :love:
Sincere attempts at sincerity here are inappropriate. A giant dump might help. Some have even been known to cover themselves entirely in faeces as a cure. But that is not always necessary.
I laughed a bit when I saw this. With Chat GPT now, Googling up a paper might have a new meaning.
Did you actually laugh though?
I like this, but I'd rewrite it - Since the truth doesn't exist, nothing can be true, nothing can be consistent, constant, nothing can exist. I'm not sure what it means... Wait, I'll ask Chat GPT... It says you're right and I'm wrong. It can go fuck itself.
I was going to post what it said, but it strikes me that AI is starting to take over the site. It's fun, but I think after a month or so, once people have had a chance to get it out of their systems, @Jamal et. al should exclude it from the forum, or at least limit it's use.
I have this little laugh, very brief and quiet, like "hmph." It happens when something amuses me just a bit. It annoys people because they think I'm making fun of something they said.
So... yes, I did actually laugh.
Thanks for the detailed explanation. I also have a little snort that I do in similar situations, and the results can be similar.
With a little help from the search function I've traced the phrase back to Clark and his toxic tough-guy masculinity.
That's the word I was looking for. Yes, a snort.
Thank you for giving me and my masculinity credit.
In fact it happened yesterday while at work. I was watching a baseball game and ringing up a customer at the same time (because I'm an intrepid, hard working employee), and something goofy happened in the game, so I snorted. I think the customer thought I was snorting at them for having trouble using the card reader. I felt bad about it momentarily and then forgot about it. Until now when I remembered it, and now I feel bad about it again. Gee thanks Clarky.
So I always drink the guest beer!!
You have been warned!!!!
The stick man can be seen as the thesis, representing the "sincere person." The sincerity of the stick man is likely a characteristic that he values and embodies as part of his self-identity.
The dog with jagged teeth wearing a hat and carrying bags labeled "honest" and "DD" represents the antithesis. The dog's jagged teeth and the labels on the bags suggest that the dog is not trustworthy or honest, which opposes the stick man's sincerity.
The two characters, thesis and antithesis, represent a dialectical opposition, creating a conflict that demands resolution. This conflict can be seen as a struggle between opposing forces, or a contradiction that needs to be reconciled.
In Hegelian philosophy, the resolution of such conflicts comes through synthesis, where the two opposing forces are reconciled into a new entity that incorporates the best aspects of both. In the case of this cartoon, the synthesis might be a scenario where the stick man and the dog work together to achieve a common goal, with the stick man's sincerity being balanced by the dog's honesty and the bag labeled "DD" suggesting that the dog is carrying something valuable that can be used to achieve their goal.
In conclusion, the cartoon can be seen as a representation of a dialectical process where opposing forces (the stick man's sincerity and the dog's lack of trustworthiness) are brought into conflict and ultimately reconciled through synthesis.
For the sake of prudence or perhaps wisdom I shall refrain from such careless inconsiderations.
My joke has already been planned …but it’s not a joke it’s a prank I’m just not gonna pay.
Let’s see who has the last laugh…time for that second pint to get those comedic timings really going
While the thesis-antithesis-synthesis interpretation of Hegel's dialectic may be unpopular among contemporary scholars, it is still a widely recognized and influential interpretation of Hegelian philosophy. Therefore, it is possible that my responses may draw on this interpretation when discussing Hegelian philosophy.
That being said, the concepts of determinate negation and sublation are important to understanding Hegelian philosophy and are often used to describe the dialectical process. Determinate negation refers to the negation of a particular concept or thesis, while sublation refers to the process of preserving and transcending that concept in a higher synthesis. These concepts can help to clarify the dynamic process of the dialectic and its role in the development of consciousness and history.
Am I wrong or are you working on usurping @Hanover from his position as the creepiest poster on the Shoutbox? You have quite a ways to go.
What I believe I will do is take my outdated materials and then I will study the revised approach you have provided, and with that, I shall bring them together, sythnthesize them if you will, and a higher order understanding will emerge. BUT WAIT! It doesn't end there. This higher order understanding will result with a conflicting position and those two will come together once again, a synthesis if you will, and then yet a higher order understanding will again emerge.
This will continue on into the night and into the next day and the next day.
Then, an unassuming Tuesday will happen, and on that day, the Day of Days, the synthesis will encounter Billy Kaufmann, who will shut this trifecta process down, once and for all. Once and for all. Once and for all. I said it three times because that's a Hegalian number.
Being creepy comes naturally to me, I doubt @Hanover stands a chance. Think of Jim Carrey crossed with Tom cruise
A read a survey of philosophy by Walter Kaufmann a long time ago and remember it as unusually clear and enjoyable. Unfortunately, that's about all I remember about it.
I'm not creepy. I'm absurd. There's no real thought that I might fuck my sister, even if she weren't dead, despite the accuracy I described in removing the ventilator from her as she lay dying.
Now that's quality stuff right there. It's disgusting, yes, but I don't make comments about the limited worth of those who have children out of wedlock, or, as others might refer to them, "mothers."
It's somewhat annoying how you go on and on about how you can read.
Though I may look down upon single mothers that does not preclude me from loving them and giving them a good time.
Wink wink
Why are you winking at me? I'm not a single mother.
I was inciting a threesome
Lies a space for cars to rust,
Where once the grass grew tall and green,
Now stands a desolate scene.
Oh, how the machines have taken hold,
And crushed the beauty of the old,
Where once a garden bloomed with life,
Now stands a symbol of human strife.
The parking lot, a barren wasteland,
A monument to man's heavy hand,
A place of steel and tar and grime,
Where nature's beauty is confined.
But even in this bleak abode,
Some beauty still finds a way to show,
A flower brave enough to bloom,
And break the monotony of doom.
Oh, parking lot, how you doth bring,
A sense of loss and suffering,
But still, amidst your barren land,
A glimpse of hope, a helping hand.
For in this space, so cold and gray,
We see the light of a better day,
A future where we can coexist,
And nature's beauty is not dismissed.
So let us take a moment to reflect,
On what our choices do affect,
And strive to build a world anew,
Where beauty and progress can ensue.
– ChatGPT
Night night days and light,
Creeps Hanover with absurd delight,
As a wise [s]person[/s] entity once wrote:
I'm sticking with "creepy."
In the end I was a man,
That Jamal wanted to ban,
I survived and lived to tell
Was a drunk and I still am,
Philosophising the best I can,
What is truth and what is good,
Is it a woman with a smile or is
Perhaps a crocodile.
Whose tears don’t lie when she lies and never cries
Giving comfort to every bruise,
Yet we swim and our clothes lose
Lying naked on the sand
Here’s an & (ampersand)
There once was a man named Hanover,
Whose jokes always verged on the absurd,
He thought he was funny,
But his puns were quite runny,
And the punchlines landed like a turd.
– ChatGPT
Creepy and absurd aren't mutually exclusive of course. Performing a Hegalian analysis on this would go like this:
The synthesis of absurd and creepy can result in something that is unsettling and bizarre. This can take the form of a situation or object that is inexplicable or out of place, causing a sense of unease or discomfort. For example, a clown standing alone in a dark alleyway, or a painting of a distorted face with unnaturally large eyes can both be considered absurdly creepy. It's a combination of the unexpected or nonsensical with an element of fear or horror. Another example of such an instance would be where Hanover fucks his sister while she lies dying and he curses her for shit soiling his clown outfit.
Rhythm is off. How about:
There once was a creep named Hanny,
Who was a real pain in the fanny,
He used some Als,
To try to sound wise,
But convinced not a soul he was canny!
Meter is better. Only moderately insulting though.
It’s a tough balance.
Yeah, what rhymes with "disgusting pervert"?
That your art, bruv?
No, I copied and pasted a couple of sentences from the preceding post from hanover to an AI and it generated the image from that prompt.
Praxis, can you ask chatGPT on how a normal horny man like Hanover can improve his game when it comes to the opposite sex, specifically chat up lines, demeanour, appeal and average looks.
How can a normal horny man like Hanover can improve his game when it comes to the opposite sex, specifically chat up lines, demeanour, appeal and average looks.
ChatGPT: Hanover is not normal.
My apologies good sir, please don’t tell my wife
Corpuscle sherbet…?
(Americans pronounce it sure-bert)
Crop-dusting underskirt.
I'm still laughing at this one.
personal question Hanover, what do you think about women’s feet…
That you don't have a very good grasp of how Shoutbix humor works.
If you or I had written that, I'd consider it fairly good--not perfect but... not too shabby.
Quoting praxis
As ChatGPT will tell you, it can't experience loss and suffering. Its use of the terms is synthetic. The message is that it won't bleed as it destroys us,
Quoting praxis
I read that as a threat and a promise. Flip to Dune:
So, maybe there is a Butlerian Jihad in our future?
The absurdity of mine is more appealing to the masses.
Yes, from the prompt: Write a poem about a parking lot, in the style of Oscar Wilde and Reading Gaol.
If I recall the series correctly it's [hide]Duncan Idaho[/hide]
Sherbet is funny with its invisible R. I'll give you that
Or that I am actually sober!!!
Yes, but corpuscle is one of the English languages greatest treasures.
Good point. I had not made any judgement about absurdity. Yes, your work often combines creepiness with absurdity while @invicta's is more purely creepy. As I noted in my first post on this subject, your title remains firmly in your grasp at this time.
Anyone heard of Diogenes ?
"Precipitously" is a funny word. It means to go down quickly as on a very steep slope or off a cliff but when you say the word it sounds like you're walking down a set of stairs. What is the opposite of "onomatopoeia?"
Dyslexic or not
Maybe in the past week or so, but overall in the past couple months I’ve found the quality to be quite strong. As mayor of the shoutbox I keep a close eye on these metrics, believe me.
I think he’s most famous for his translations of Nietzsche and his book Nietzsche: Philosopher, Psychologist, Antichrist. A very engaging writer, so I’ve heard.
I think I can say with no fear of contradiction that my pompous summary judgements are the best on the forum.
Out of the pompous ones, perhaps, yes.
Eh wot?
A few weeks ago I asked GPT3 or 3.5 about the differing interpretations of Hegel's dialectic. I couldn't shake its faith in the thesis-antithesis-synthesis stuff, which I suppose reflects the way it's still taught to students. Surprised me though.
Well this is nihilism essentially. The flipside of the coin. But I think the idea that "nothing can be true" is less intuitive/sensible for me personally, as it is for many others.
Pffft. Postulent.
Quoting Jamal
Nice. Brinjal pickle?
What time do you wake up to start preparing such elaborate breakfasts?
Just interested on how crazy you 'foreigners' think we so called 'brits,' really are?
I am not asking for your reasons for or against the continuation of the brit monarchy, just whether or not you will watch the spectacle and why?
Btw, Happy Star Wars day!
May the 4th be with you all, (well most of you, the rest can ..........!)
I had no brinjal pickle, alas. I say "alas," but I've never had it. I'm in no doubt that I'd like it, hence the "alas".
Quoting Hanover
I'll give you the boring answer because I'm not feeling particularly witty today: it was leftovers from last night's delivery.
Here’s a tip, you ever feel unwitty simply read a bit of witty.
Goes well on eggs, too.
I'm British and I wouldn't even have known it was happening had my Russian wife not mentioned it yesterday.
:up: I read where you said you were born down South. Is national identity something that plays a significant roll in your own persona?
I'm not sure. I describe myself as Scottish, since I was brought up there from the age of two and can speak fluent Scotch. And if anyone denies I am Scottish based on their favourite pseudo-criteria like place of birth or father's nationality or whatever, I become enraged. So aye, I guess it does.
That said, I've never been a separatist, although I'm closer to the fence now than I was.
So although it looks like a curry, it isn't really. It's roasted chunks added to a sauce, not cooked in it.
:lol: I sooooooo relate to that same indignancy, but not for quite the same reasons as you describe, and only when I am not in Scotland.
I expect the philosophical prowess of TPF, to fully explain such behaviour of personal psyche, so that I might better control my indignant responses, in the now rarer times when I get a comment from some (for example) Americans, such as "So you guys are all from Scatland England? I so love your 'bucking' 'ham' palace." I also hate when some people refer to 'YOUR' Queen or 'YOUR' King.
That's when I wish I had bought that 'Not MY King,' badge. But that can be an unhealthy badge to forget to remove, before entering a sectarian east end of Glasgow pub, because one of your group says 'Naw guys, trust me, it's no that bad anymair! an someirakaraoke is a laugh!'
Sometimes it's easier and the key word is "Americanski," which I can unambiguously deny.
Lackaday is preferred over alas in the Shoutbox.
Perhaps it's wiser to just insist that I am an Earthling, but I don't think many sectarian Scots or compulsive aggressive nationalists in all their colourful manifestations, would let me occupy that national 'non-committal' space without protest or accusation.
I remember a group of knuckle draggers in a local Glasgow pub (in an area I had just moved into,) asking me if I supported Celtic, and my response of 'I don't follow football guys or religion,' was answered with (and agreed to by the other knuckle draggers) 'oh, so yer a bluenose!!!' :lol: :death: :flower:
Eventually, I became good weekend drinking buddies with all those local knuckle draggers.
I picked up the language from your posts. I'm a quick study.
This is roughly equivalent to suggesting that in English one should say, "I'mish Scottishish, butish speakish Englishish".
There was a separatist movement where I'm from some time ago. Just a warning. It didn't go well.
I dunno, the good guys won.
At all costs
Quoting Jamal
Get your head in the game! I already knew Russian was more than ski suffixes. You can do better than this! You are better than this!
:yikes:
Fair. At least you tempered your put-down with some motivational coaching.
Anyway, I would like to officially request that you and your 'we arra mods' security team use your obvious knowledge of electronic wizardry, to usurp the global transmission of Saturday's coronation abomination, by causing 'picture-in-picture' images to appear on every screen, that depict foodbanks, homeless folks, strikes, NHS queue lists for essential life saving operations, etc, etc whilst also displaying flashes of the £100 million cost of this elitist pageantry that we f***wits are paying for.
If you and your crew do it from your base in Russia, then we can all blame Putin!
It's not much to ask you for imo?
Btw, don't worry, shhhhhhh, this message will self-destruct in 3000 years! or when you decide to delete it as some members of TPF are bound to be secretly working for MI5. I think I know who they are if you are interested!
I'll head down to the Kremlin later and have a word.
Just give me a rifle and I will go and shoot the wanker between the eyes and walk out unscathed.
Putting up the price of beer, I will never forgive that
NOOOOOOOOOOO! For f*** sake, don't go there. Especially not as Jamal! They might get all Jamal Khashoggi on you!
Putin is probably a direct descendant of Queen Victoria! Just arrange for him to get the blame, remember he thinks he IS the return of the Russian Tsar.
Especially when he dresses up at the weekend as a Russian orthodox religious Icon and calls himself 'Nicholas III,' in that big Russian mirror of his.
Don't tell him our cunning plan!
Ah yes. Thanks Praxis I was a bit slow on the update of the reference. Understand it now.
Daddy!
This is my latest t-shirt, got it in the mail today from Amazon. You can get custom shirts from them for about 20 bucks.
This is St. Francis setting himself on fire because the Muslim guy wouldn't convert to Christianity, I'm sure you know that story...
I don't think it's nihilism, but I must admit I wouldn't have been as flip as I was if this weren't the Shoutbox. My primary philosophical point, as opposed to my smarty-pants one, is that truth is a flawed standard by which to judge our understanding of the world. This is a point I've made many times here on the forum.
Yes, Banno, I admit it. If anyone were to challenge me for the title of best poster of pompous summary judgements here on the forum, you would be at the top of the list.
I usually think of you as Kazakh.
I heard that's the area where horses might be from.
I made a shirt once. I put a picture of a hamburger on the front it and I I wrote on the back:
Hamburger Place.
Home of the plain hamburger.
20% gratuity added.
I thought it was funny, but I never wore it.
My other idea was to have a really long quote that sort of wrapped around and ended under the arm or something. I would have done that but I decided to stop wasting my money on things only I thought were funny. Instead, I just wrote about it here where you guys could enjoy it. Enjoy!
You could start an etsy shop and sell them.
Donut Place
Home of the plain donut
20% gratuity added
Mexican Place
Home of the plain Mexican
20% gratuity added
Yes, I've heard that somewhere too.
I have to read up on models to really make sense of it. If I can make sense of it I think it's pretty close to understanding sublation formally -- at least better than before. Somehow I have to tease out the relationship between the formal definition of a dialectical contradiction, and the statement which follows from "the negation of the negation" -- at least that's where my mind is at.
According to the Natural History Museum (UK) "Scientists found that the ancestors of modern horses were domesticated in the northern Caucasus region in what is now southern Russia"
Another reason to not Tiktok, thanks!
The AI I use wouldn't allow that prompt, saying:
:halo:
Were you deliberately trying to get me in trouble?
If you look, you'll find that Kazakhstan directly abuts the northern Caucasus on the north end of the Caspian Sea. It's my understanding that border control was ineffective in that region 4,000 years ago.
I think the prompt was just "astronaut.". Wonder lets you pick a picture to use as a sort of template? So I started with "St. Francis on fire with sunglasses" and then used one of the outputs as the template. I have some chimpanzees as astronauts.
But to answer your question, yes, I was hoping I could get the FBI to stop by your house. Or at least a member of the Reedy Creek Nazi Planning Board.
The whole thing was fucking weird, right? I mean who the hell goes to caucuses devoted to couscous, especially in such remote areas, and how random is it that it went down beside a dead body?
The Caucasus are a region, not, or not just, a mountain range. As I noted, they stretch north from the mountains to the north end of the Caspian Sea and thus to what is now known as Kazakhstan.
I’m ok with that. Just don’t call me English.
I can say that without being anti-English by the way, because when people get my nationality wrong it’s rare for people to say I’m anything other than English.
When I was a barman one of the drinkers insisted I was Iranian. I wasn’t offended, though I did deny it, since it wasn’t true. She didn’t believe me and kept on asking me why I was lying for the next hour.
Those hundreds of miles are the Kalmyk steppe, which is not part of the Caucasus.
I was in the Caucasus a while ago and I saw the Kalmyk steppe. Very wide and beige.
I'm a true Scotsman.
As I noted, the Caucasus don't just include the area immediately next to the mountains, they stretch up to the north end of the Caspian Sea, where they border Kazakhstan.
So @T Clark, you may have a point, since the Natural History Museum mention the "northern Caucasus region" which likely means the North Caucasus region, which does indeed extend to the Volga delta, where the European part of Kazakhstan is.
Scythians maybe. Famously horsey people. You do the math.
Do you think that a formalization actually helps Hegelians, or helps people who who want to theorize dialectically (Marxists, critical theorists), or do you think it’s just to help with the integration of Hegel into analytic philosophy—or is it just curiosity?
Interesting. Go on.
All you say is consistent with Hegel in that we should expect today's theory to be a synthesis of his prior theory and it's opposite.
This is why it's changed from how you learned it was before.
It's slippery.. in a few years, It'll be different.
This is a direct contradiction of terms. Truth is unflawed by its very nature. If it were then it would not be truth. It would be false (flawed).
Whether we know/are aware of the truth on the otherhand is a separate argument entirely. Human concepts of truth are likely flawed, as humans are, and thus a flawed standard by which to understand the world as you say. I agree on that capacity.
But that doesn't mean fundamental truth doesn't exist. It merely means we haven identified it or our understandings of it are not sufficient.
My claim, is that truth must, and does, tie the whole thing together (the universe). One singular constant or law or rule or fundamental on which everything else hinges. The central static, unchanging innately true point in the middle of the dynamic ever changing circle that revolves around it's authority/power.
Because, quite rationally, in order to have chaos, disorder, falsehood, deception, deceit, delusion, etc to their very extremes, the other side of that axis/spectrum or polarity "MUST" exist relative to such.
And that is called fundamental truth. It is absolute - the primary, fundamental, original, unchanging, the singular. The master, the incorruptible, the ultimate, a theory of everything (ToE).
This is not flawed. Our understanding of it is flawed. But we are tied to it through logic nevertheless. As logic permeates all things, it is the demonstration of truth in all interactions and phenomenon. The thing that ties all consistency together.
Do we not just end up in the paradox of "the only objective truth is that there are no objective truths?"
Is not every point on a circle, a potential beginning and end of the circle? and does 'outside' of the circle you call 'ever changing' or 'dynamic,' have any meaning (especially for all existents ON/IN this 'circle?'
Horses evolved in North America.
I’m really trying to forget the thesis-antithesis-synthesis scheme and this is not helping.
I was thinking of a thread about the lyrics of 'protest songs' and music that people used to go into battle listening to etc. It came to me when I was listening to a song that in my youth, was one of the songs that focused my opinions on becoming fiercely anti-fascist and anti-racist. Hazel O'Connors 'Blackman':
I googled 'Is there a philosophy of music' and got:
From Wiki:
[b]Philosophy of music is the study of "fundamental questions about the nature of music and our experience of it". The philosophical study of music has many connections with philosophical questions in metaphysics and aesthetics. The expression was born in the 19th century and has been used especially as the name of a discipline since the 1980s.
Some basic questions in the philosophy of music are:
What is the definition of music? (what are the necessary and sufficient conditions for classifying something as music?)
What is the relationship between music and mind?
What is the relationship between music and language?
What does music history reveal to us about the world?
What is the connection between music and emotions? (in the 19th century a debate began over whether purely instrumental music could convey emotions and depict imaginary scenes)
What is meaning in relation to music?
Contributions to music philosophy have been made by philosophers, music critics, musicologists, music theorists, and other scholars.[/b]
Is there a reason why 'philosophy of music' was not included in the TPF categories when such as 'philosophy of art' is? Would a thread along the lines of my suggestion be a valid one for the main TPF front page?
It comes under philosophy of art. From the categories page of TPF...
Quoting universeness
I'm not sure I properly understand your suggestion, but sure, it would probably work in terms of sociology, psychology, cultural theory, and maybe musicology--and I guess philosophy of music too. However, if it's just for sharing videos and talking casually about how effective the lyrics are for forming opinions, then that would be a Lounge discussion.
Thanks. I will leave the idea alone for now.
My assumption is that you're trying to convey some swirl in your head in an ambiguously artsy way that I cannot follow.
C-.
lol These reviews are actually quite cool. You may earn a place in a strip if you're not careful. :naughty:
Cheers, bruv. :up:
The cat has a cool mustache. Must be a gentlemog. Birds can't talk though unless they are parrots and that clearly isn't a parrot. Otherwise, it does make for a good summary of the Phenomenology of Spirit. So, I give it an American A- (= a European D+).
Nice. I like Roderick. But I don't think I've watched that one yet.
This from Wikipedia:
This from Britannica:
But since today’s nation-states didn’t exist when horses were invented, isn’t it better to say that horses were invented in, say, the Eurasian steppe (or whatever), rather than pinning it down anachronistically to a modern nation-state?
This is like that "rational" argument for God:
It's just playing with language and pretending it's real.
The existence of truth is a metaphysical question. Metaphysical positions are not true or false. They have no truth value. Do you really want to get involved in this here? I don't.
This seems like one of those pompous summary judgements I've been hearing about.
There is no "fundamentally objective truth" because "objects" change (are not fundamental). "objective things" are those that are finite, measurable, tangible and material. But they are never permanently static nor permanently measurable as all material changes in nature (transforms - either into other objects or into pure energy - heat, or change itself). Relativism between objects is the subjective nature of a dynamic of an ever changing reality.
What is objective is merely but a single set of the totality (total set) of truth - energy, space, time and consciousness (subjectivity) being other sets outside of that which is simply "objective" (material/matter/quantifiable).
There is however fundamental truth. It is not outright objective, because it is not material. It's conceptual. Relative. A space where one can not be limited by what they see and can measure, but rather what is logical/reasonable. That which includes what cannot be seen (the actor) or potential behind all things (matter) in motion through spacetime.
Quoting universeness
Yes every point on an circle is an arbitrary beginning and end simultaneously. In essence it is endless, there is no beginning or end (as pi demonstrates as an integral relationship to it - irrational and endless).
For linear arguments we can assign a start and end arbitrarily (causality) but this leads to paradoxes in the extreme cases using linear argument - such as the grandfather paradox (of time), the liar paradox (of objective truth), Zenos paradox (of space), as really the circumference is not linear A-B but circular AAA'. It's only artificially taken as such. And applying linear argument to everything violates circularity.
No, the outside of the circle has no meaning. Because the energy required to be dynamic, is finite (cannot be created nor destroyed), thus there is an innate boundary or speed limit to change (lightspeed) and the circumference already represents this - pure irrationality and infinity in its circularity (infinite in quality or vector, but finite in quantity - distance to the center - radius). Anything approaching that boundary becomes ever more circumferential until it reaches perfect circularity and cannot exit that, whilst within the area of the circle it can as linear as you like (linear momentum of mass).
The "outside" only applies to circles drawn in 3D space. But the entire system as a circle prevents anything from going outside of total chaos/irrationality/change and reformulation (the circumference).
Thus the diagram/pictogram of a circle does not equal the laws of the universe. It is just used for illustrative purposes. Not to mention, a diagram is inaccurate as to draw a perfect circle we require pi to it's infinite decimal point, in which case the perfect circle can never be drawn. It is at most an inaccurate/incomplete representation of the truth.
What would a picture of a concept look like if we can't start with a cat?
It could be both impregnable and pompous.
The bird is Jamal. You will appear as a monkey in future comic strips. I expect to be a goat. Let's be consistent here.
Great question.
They’re only horses if they’re from the Horse Peninsula region of Australia, otherwise they’re just sparkling cows.
Deal, provided we all get to wear clown suits. :party:
You’re right, and it seems I’d rather be impregnable and pompous than pregnable and unpompous.
Thanks, I didn’t know that.
May i ask, is it gibberish because I don't understand it. Or because you don't understand it?
I'm happy to elaborate on what I'm saying or coin it in a new way if it wasn't articulated clearly in a way you can evaluate. But that requires engagement rather than assignment of "gibberish" to it, an act of determination, or simply ending conversation, without option for further explanation.
Please, please, this a place for food talk, comic strips and ironic perversions, not "understanding" things.
Anyhow, I had to do one in honor of @frank
Now that you have endorsed pompous summary judgements, I think you and I are in agreement.
Alright. I understand you. We will leave it there then. I will not discuss things further and please forgive me if I went into seriousness too much if the Lounge is a place for lighthearted comical chat, I was merely answering universenesses genuine questions the best I could.
Quoting Baden
That's fair Baden. I apologise for making the Lounge convo heavy. I will save these discussionsnfor the general forum in future. Thank you both for highlighting the categorical mistake I made in the nature of the discussion and it's place on the platform
:up:
Agreed. I’m done here.
Too many people laid down their lives for us just to go back to the way things were before we gained the freedom to speak like normal people.
By the way, Americans only say one R in drawing, as opposed to the Brits who say drawerings. They say that because they lack the American freedom to speak normal.
Only the English, and only some of the English.
Good luck.
Alright, so here's what I'm going to do for you, but I can't right now because I'm at work and would rather not waste that much time on this now, especially where people around might be able to hear me.
I'm going to post an audio file of the various ways that the word "drawer" might be said and from there we can discuss pronunciations more intelligently.
Unitoe or multitoe makes a difference. The modernist zebraisch horse walked on single fingertips. So, then the question becomes, how did they get from the grasslands of North America to the steppes of Central Asia? Who was responsible? Clearly they didn't swim -- at least they don't look sufficiently seal-like to get very far in deep water. Aliens moving species around just to confuse us later on? Not impossible!
The native North American horse was extinct by 10,000 years ago. Had the Native Americans domesticated Equus scotti instead of eating it, history would have been much different. They would then have had a reason to invent the wheel. Draft animals would have enabled the Aboriginals to develop industrially (what with all the great stands of timber, iron ore, and coal). They would have discovered and conquered the world. The sun would not have set on the Aztec Empire. Instead of the Eifel Tower we'd have a pyramid where Aztec priests would cut out the beating hearts of Frenchmen and roll them down the long stair steps. Is it too late for that?
Equus scotti
I recently saw the Island of Dr Moreau with Marlon Brando. A for effort. C for being too old Hollywood.
In England they pronounce it kinda like "duhnce", but in Merican' we pronounce it "dense".
Very sus.
It's my fish blessing upon you.
The movie version was going for insane/horrific. Didn't quite achieve either one.
And also with you.
In Australia we pronounce it both ways - 'duhnce' and 'dense' and we use these pronunciations to determine who we will hire for a job. If you pronounce it in the shabby way (I'll leave it to you to determine which one that is) we pass on the applicant. Then all we need to do with the person who has the correct pronunciation, is check they are a Mason (quick handshake) and we are properly primed for successful recruitment.
What?!?
No fair! What's the shabby way? :rofl: :lol:
They found the unicorn? Whoopee!! I always knew they would.
James Thurber provides guidance on finding unicorns:
Thanks for your attempt to further explain your position. We can pick this up again in other threads. :up:
Northerners pronounce is "dance". Southerners pronounce it "dahnce".
There is nothing to prove that a myth must be false. Some of us maintain faith in the human power of discovery, to uncover what we always knew was there.
By the way, I really like your boobies.
A: How do you pronounce “dance”
B: I pronounce it “dance”
:chin:
I hope you find this helpful.
Tragic indeed. I will work on other formats and be right back with you.
I am skeptical that dance can be pronounced neutrally. :confused:
Good sir, tis' a delusion.
I highly doubt we don't say it one way or the other.
And that's just within England. I think the Welsh and Scots are closer to the Northern pronunciation for the first example of “a”.
So all those videos that claim to show the British English pronunciation of "dance" or whatever, are bollocks, because they're obscuring the differences for convenience and representing the Southern English accent as the right one. The big British dictionaries do the same thing, because traditionally they take Received Pronunciation to be standard, even though RP is just a southern way of talking.
EDIT: But Scottish pronunciation is closer to Southern English with the second example of "u".
Well, first of all, very good explanations of the pronunciation of the word "dance" in different accents.
I do still think that the way you first referred to the (neutral)would be pronounced "daynce", with a very, very slight "y" sound. But, having said that, it does sound more "neutral" than the other ones, or it could just be me hearing funny.
The whole thing was just an idle observation :)
When you listen to Hanover's voice you turn to ___?
Well dude you're going to starve waiting for a reply.
It's convenient at times to use recordings instead of typing things out. But truth is, the question it too difficult. Too many options, not enough data...
Quoting Hanover
Finally got around to listening to your mellifluous babbling. Great accent, colourful and folksy. That I will grant you. But you got “dance” wrong: Scots and northern English don’t say it like you said they say it. It’s possible you threw that in to rile me.
I hope all the other Shoutboxians listen to that, because it’s quite helpful. It’s like some sort of ultra-Scottish, or the Platonic ideal of Scottishness, one that mere Scots barely come close to.
Good old Fred.
Fred's my dog, or my son. I can't remember. Maybe he's the cat. Hard to remember.
It really doesn't matter how you say it, spell it, or hatch them if that's how you describe uncovering them, I still like your boobies.
I criticize the criticism you received for criticizing the crucial lack of quality in the Shoutbox.
I fully expect to be criticized (if not crucified) for this. This is not called The Playpen after all…
I thought you would appreciate more of my pompous summary judgements (PSJs).
We pronounce "pompous" indistinguishably from "pampers" where I come from. As everyone should.
I demand a response.
Come on. Let's go out to that location where our automobiles are stored.
:rage:
I thought that was clever. I'm going to do that from now on - find amusing ways to refer to that location without actually using the commonly used term. See how I did that?
I request that we rendezvous in that asphalt-laden locale overlaid with wheeled steel structures of a transport-oriented variety.
Why would you want to fight in a scrap yard?
It is cause in Britisher, a fight is called a scrap? Or is it because that just happen to be where your automobiles are 'stored?'
By George, he's got it.
Quoting Baden
Seems to me you've pissed off Chat GPT. These next years may be quite difficult for you.
@Baden can set you straight.
Should I have said 'breakers yard' instead of scrap yard?
@Baden, please explain it. I can't, for obvious reasons.
See the last few posts between @Baden and me. This is the kind of quality discussion I think really belongs here in the Shoutbox.
PSJ
Quoting T Clark
:cheer:
Quoting frank
:eyes: Time for your annual shower @Hanover.
I sometimes scrap in the fight yard where things may also be broken. Not Shoutbox convention though.
Oh! it's all so much clearer now, thanks!
Sorry Clarky. I am fail. :sad:
Buy a better automobile, buy a Britisher one!
This is the pinnacle of Britisher auto achievement. And probably the best thing they've done in general since the Battle of Britain.
Nice car, deserves a place of admiration in any American parking lot.
Buy it and raise your self-confidence by the buying!
Don't know about the old guy in the crombie coat however. He at least looks like he might have good scrap value. Perhaps a whole civil list full of it!
Here's two other options:
Yes, but are they cheddar-powered? :chin:
Tell me straight up: isn't it the first time you ended up with such a conclusion, right?
Soon to be converted to electric cheddar power afaik!
Automobiles anyone would be proud to fight beside in a parking lot, even an American one.
Bentley and Aston Martin look much better.
I think the idea is to efficiently and effectively illuminate the road ahead and reduce the 'dazzle' on on-coming drivers.
Btw, my second car was a Daimler not a Bentley.
This is a most definite possibility, likely even.
Once you're spending that much money on cars, are you really going to care about other people?
I am sure many Kings, past and present would agree with you.
Part of me is glad I could never afford such a beautiful car, lest I develop such monarchistic feelings towards 'other people.' :halo:
That's somewhat slanted question you have there; a more equitable spelling would have been "aren't" or "ant" The Ulster version is two syllables though "agh-unt"
Edit: Sorry this should have gone in the "I Sam therefore I am" thread.
The above edit refers to a witticism that I accidentally deleted in the process of adding the explanatory edit. The comment itself is three pages late due to covid.
Congratulations! What a kick-ass wife.
My ancestors are from Ulster, but somewhere in their migration from Ulster to Minnesota they lost that particular language feature.
3 things: a) surveys show English pronunciation is becoming more varied, rather than less. At one time it was thought that media (radio, television, film) would homogenize the language. It didn't.
b) a vowel shift seems to be underway in some parts of the US. The soft 'o' (cock, rock, knock, Bach) in "block" is gradually shifting to a short 'e' sort of sound, as in tech, reck, heck, expect). So, "a walk around the block" now sounds like "a walk around the bleck". All this makes sense only if your pronunciation of cock and Bach is the same as mine. Otherwise it's just more mystification, of which there is already way too much.
c) There is a line through Iowa (among other places), north of which people "wash", south of which people warsh.
It's probably just a question of scale and income and what you do to earn your money. John Lennon had mansions and Rolls Royces - did he care about others?
I think Lennon was a complex character, and it's not entirely clear from what I've read that he lived up to the image he created. Nobody does though, so I don't think it important.
In any event, the correlation between poverty and righteousness is a particularly pervasive Christian concept that I think is hard for some to shake.
I do question someone's priorities and sense of meaning if he spends his life gathering toys, but I see nothing that signals immorality or lack of compassion or empathy if he does.
I would agree with you.
Quoting Hanover
I’d like to make three points.
1. Asceticism
I was raised in a vaguely Calvinist milieu. My grandparents disapproved of luxury, fun, and freedom. The first stage of rebellion against this was my parents, but they were eaten up by guilt about it. The second stage is me: luxury, fun, and freedom are goods to be sought and cultivated without guilt. From a political point of view, and as Weber said, the Protestant ethic is associated more with the bourgeois order than with its critics, although I can’t deny that there is an unfortunate Puritan strand in socialism, which might be why I sometimes refuse the label “socialist”.
But there’s an important difference between the luxury and fun of a free life and mere acquisitiveness. Marx pointed this out when sarcastically describing bourgeois political economy:
[quote= Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844;https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/needs.htm]Self-renunciation, the renunciation of life and of all human needs, is its principal thesis. The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, i.e., the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being. Everything which the political economist takes from you in life and in humanity, he replaces for you in money and in wealth[/quote]
Collecting cool cars has a bit of both: enjoyment of life and acquisitiveness. In any case, I’m always suspicious, and for reasons of personal history feel a rising anger, when people criticize the rich for their profligacy rather than for their meanness. I feel an affinity with people who buy lots of stuff: paradoxically, there’s a spirit of generosity in it. A generous abandonment to pleasure.
2. The source of morality itself in Christian poverty and powerlessness
Nietzsche was even more radical. In his magnificent account, the very concept of morality we have in Western culture comes out of the resentment felt by the poor, powerless early Christians. Their love and goodness is a self-applied compensation for the bitterness they feel towards those who are having a good time.
So, combining Marx and Nietzsche we can celebrate the luxurious enjoyment of life and reject the resentful ascription of immorality to people with lots of cars.
3. Nick Mason has lots of great cars and he’s not only a nice guy but also the drummer of Pink Floyd.
My father's ethic, the best I could understand it, was that luxury items were created largely as part of a ruse to convince you to want something you didn't really want so that you'd spend extra money on it.
He never said that because he didn't believe in explaining things, but based upon an assessment of his various absolute rules, I think that provides an understanding of his beliefs.
What this meant was that the gullible had the luxury items, but the wise were not so deceived. I adopted this belief early on, but have gotten better about setting it aside, and it's been freeing to do that.
One thing I can say that did help me is that I do have a reduced appreciation for nicer things, which has resulted in saving large sums of money and avoiding the country club sorts of trappings common among my peer group. I can maintain a sense of superiority as they eat their filet minion and I eat my meatloaf.
This philosophy also keeps me from being a slave to the man, even if I actually am the man under any reasonable definition of "the man. " There's a certain freedom in being able to tell someone you don't want their bling, even if there's a certain loss in having no bling.
I unironically agree with you. Creative banter is the substance of the Shoutbox. Every witty retort is a brick in this glorious temple of tomfoolery. Every vulgar anecdote is a decorative mural adorning this cathedral of clowning.
Whereas I’ll have both. Macaroni and gruyere. Caviar pizza. Foie gras and fries.
Otherwise, maybe you have dodged the prongs of the dilemma.
As you know, my comment was ironic, actually doubly so. First, it was ironic in the obvious way - using a trivial, silly conversation as an example of high quality discourse. Secondly, in counterpoint to that, the discussion about alternative terms for p..., well, you know, was less tedious than the interminable back and forth about the pronunciation of "dance." There, another PSJ for you.
Double irony, now that's high quality H20.
What bothers me is that they want it both ways. They want to be cool, everyday guys. Friendly with their baristas and mechanics. Eating cheeseburgers from In and Out Burger. Clarence Thomas claimed that he had modest tastes and enjoyed everyman holidays.
But then, whenever any important advantage is on the line, using their privilege and power to make sure their interests win out over us hoi polloi. Say what you will about John Lennon, but he lived in one of the most expensive addresses in Manhattan but then wanted to be able to walk the streets like Joe sixpack. He found out, briefly, that was a bad idea.
Thank you very much, or go fuck yourself, whichever is appropriate.
You need more practice. What you should’ve said is “thank you very much and go fuck yourself.”
Anyway, you’re welcome and fuck you too.
I'm sure he did, his actions proved that. It was a very general remark on a tendency, not an absolute.
Roger Waters is also filthy rich and owns expensive cars, but he does some very very good humanitarian work and activism, which has gotten him into quite serious trouble. So there are all kinds.
Sure. From personal experience, living in several countries, I do think this not caring of the super wealthy has some merit to it, but it is far from being a universal.
There's a world of difference between say, Jeff Bezos and say, a much loved rock star, you can think of several.
I agree, there is pleasure to be gotten in material things, sometimes quite a lot. But it shouldn't be the focus of your existence to flaunt wealth for the sake of it. I do think Aston Martin's are beautiful, Mercedes Benz, in general, are more problematic in my experience.
This must be the medium rich. The rich rich exist in a cucoon of private air-conditioned interiors, underground car parks, gyms, and luxury cars.
I spent some time with some Swiss watch people in Monaco. They seemed nervous when they had to walk on the street.
I definitely see that difference.
EDIT: it’s aristocratic (Aston) vs bourgeois (Mercedes)
Incidentally, they had no interest in or knowledge of watchmaking or the history of watches. I suppose they were just the ungrateful brats of the family.
Not knowing anything about Hegel, I wasn't sure whether it was a complement or an insult.
Now I'll have to go read Hegel to figure out what you're talking about... Not.
What did you expect from wind-up Swiss automatons?
Termites are social cockroaches, basically. In what ways are human royalty like cockroaches?
It’s a little known fact that Prince Edward has six legs, enjoys dark and humid conditions, and occasionally consumes his own fecal pellets.
Unpopular opinion: the widespread and self-consciously socialist disdain for Charles’s coronation that I’ve met with so much recently is an expression of the deathly bourgeois spirit of instrumental rationality rather than anything more emancipatory. It’s a recrudescence of the late medieval merchant’s hatred of the nobility.
I think that's a twist on the truth - I heard he likes to lie under a glass coffee table and watch people shit on him from above. But you were close.
The Windsors as members of the British oligarchy are as objectionable as all the other plutocrats in every country everywhere.
Should they be done away with? Sure, along with the rest of the ruling class. To the extent that they have entertainment value, they have some meagre purpose. But England can have parades, processions, and pomp without the royals.
:cheer:
Interesting. I conclude from this personal insight that said individual is not a gentleman. A gentleman never employs an excess of lower limbs even on the most strenuous of perambulations nor does he endure ambient moisture levels consistent with perspiration, and while in extreme circumstances he may partake of a fecal pellet or two, he certainly does not make an occasion of it.
Hm, he is perhaps not such a bad sort after all. Of course, it would largely depend on the calibre of the aforementioned furnishing. When a gentleman is shat on he must through the glass see clearly.
Ah, but can it?
:snicker:
Quoting Hanover
I sill feel horrible somewhere deep inside when I catch images of starving children on my tv and I also catch a glimpse of my two (probably unnecessary) expensive, lord of the rings chess sets and my £80 each, set of 6, pewter, Arthurian drinking goblets, that I got from 'Franklin Mint,' when it existed.
I normally sate myself by internally saying, 'I never made this freakin world!!!'
But I never feel right about the situation, so ....... on we go!
I had a friend once who owned a few Glasgow Disco's and pubs and a taxi company.
He was pretty well off. He said a very strange thing to me once.
"I love buying fancy new cars. I love that new car smell. I wait until I have eaten and drank a lot and I have a good fartfest going. I put on my cool tight shorts, go into my new car and spend a good hour or so building up and letting go the best and loudest farts I can. I LOVE doing that!"
Any philosophical/psychological analysis of that approach to possessing new fancy cars?
I know what you mean. I'm not defending the conspicuous consumption of the rich so much as criticizing the psychological or ideological source of many of its critics. In other words, I'm just being difficult. This itself might be a sign that I'm trying to set myself up as holier than thou. :chin:
But my central point still looks good, and it's reflected by your own reflections: it's not having nice things that's the problem, but the fact that not everyone can have nice things.
Quoting universeness
Yes. If I were to analyze his behaviour I would start out by examining the way in which even the wealthy, in a postmodern bureaucratic society, are forced to express their lives in isolation, taking escapist pleasure in the most basic animal ways in a pocket of privacy.
I wish I would have used that response to him when he told me the story, but he would have probably got some of his bouncers to hold me down whilst he sat on my head and farted!
Oh, and I forgot to add that I completely agree with the above quote.
I don't like this quote. It feels spoiled, like I'm supposed to care if you can't have the newest cell phone, fast car, or whatever gadget. As if that deprivation is a meaningful sort of suffering I need to pay attention to and worry about. Woe is you for your lack of bling. It sounds like something a millennial might say.
Happiness is not achieved from the collection of things, so I have no concern if you're missing those things. And I'm not talking about those people who are truly deprived or who are struggling to make ends meet, but I'm talking about those people who can't afford the latest and best out there.
The way out of the capitalistic, consumer driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
Fuck, I sound like my dad.
Lackaday.
Whereas in old S.Africa, they always made the blecks walk around them.
Quoting Hanover
Personally speaking, sure, that's kind of what I do. I wasn't really talking about what to do about it personally.
Might then the unspoken judgment you decree upon others be that you think their lavish lifestyle is evidence of shallowness?
I think that's where I am, but then I wonder if I'm not just the fool Nietzsche describes who adheres to a slave morality. I ended up here despite my lack of adherence to that religious doctrine, but instead I convinced myself of its validity by intellectual means, making me even more the fool. I actually arrived at a logical basis to suppress my consumption of the finer things and have then handed it over to the ruling class.
For me to escape this criticism, I truly have to subscribe to the idea that happiness is not acquired through wealth. I think I'm good with that notion. In my own life, I do not correlate times of happiness with times of wealth. They seem entirely unrelated, so I think I can avoid the Nietzschean bitch slap and remain the Uberhanover expected of me.
We were not comparing those who own 6 fancy pewter goblets with those who own a fleet of fancy cars.
There are many humans who are conflicted when they see that some folks don't even have the basics to merely survive. Such people WILL be bothered by their own 'probably unnecessary' possessions at such moments. That was the basis of our exchange. I don't consider a person that can only afford a jaguar and cant afford a Rolls Royce Phantom, deprived.
Quoting Hanover
That's like saying:
The way out of the criminal, drug driven trap isn't by trying to tear it down and replacing it, but it's to accept it for what it is but not to feed on all the addictive substances it offers.
Capitalism sooooooooo needs to be 'torn down and replaced,' then less children per day will die because they and their family are too poor to live.
That is exactly what I would say.
Attack the demand, not the supply, but accept that there will always be those who make poor choices. That is the consequence of freedom, which is far superior to trying to control the population.
A significant factor in happiness is being able to resist the injunction to enjoy. Which is somewhat tricky if you can't afford the stuff to not enjoy. The addictive substance is enjoyment itself.
And sometimes, those books ain't cheap.
We may debate the fancy cars, the super comfortable bed, or the expensive steak in due time. :halo:
So to sort this out, I cannot enjoy the lack of a heroin addiction unless I've been able to first enjoy heroin so that I can now enjoy not enjoying it.
That sounds correct. I will now find a good vein and shoot up, which I expect to be amazing, but not nearly as amazing as tomorrow when I control my urges and don't shoot up.
Does this work for sex too?
I know.
Quoting Hanover
I don't advocate for controlling the minds of the population and dictating their rights and protections (or lack of). I advocate for a fair global economic system. Do you think people who have little or no access to the basic means of survival have any 'freedom' to choose anything? If I posted a picture of starving children here, with a caption that said 'freedom of choice,' what would you make of it?
That's too much Zen.
Destroy the few things that one enjoys?
Tough.
No. Parking lot now.
Quoting Hanover
Impressive analysis, submitting yourself to a kind of immanent critique, knowing that only the foolish philosophers imagine they can stand outside of it all and view oneself and the world with a pure objectivity.
Let us know how you get on. :clap:
Quoting Hanover
Two syllables. The second's a trick.
Do a reverso on this and use it in your dialectic cartoon.
Yeah, and don't forget that the rich man can buy a lot of bouncers, who will say to you, me and even a Hanoverian. Feck you all and your 'consequences of freedom,' 'smell this,' as his army holds us all down, whilst he sits of each of our head's in turn and farts long and loud.
You either fight the supply and the demand or you learn to enjoy the smell of the rich mans farts!
Is the point to be able to engage with it more actively or something? A curious thing has happened to me that might be relevant. A while ago I read Crash. I didn't enjoy it and I wrote a short and sniffy review of it, but since then its presence in my mind has grown like a tumour and it seems to have sent me on a mad philosophical journey into modernity and postmodernity. I don't agree that enjoyment and entertainment are shallow (Beckett is fun), but I can't deny that something that's not enjoyable can be powerful.
What was my point again?
:lol: Why does that seem to fit my imagery of a rich man farting on my head so well?
This is an interesting example of the Motte/Bailey analysis @Jamal discussed in a recent thread. Since you don't want to admit the difficulty in your position which is that some of those who lack luxuries are not wanting for basic needs and are therefore not in need of sympathy, you divert and start talking about those who don't have basic needs, which is an obvious part of your position, and it is something to which I admitted earlier on and did sympathize with.
Yes, to kind of be with it. Don't let the enjoyment "go to your head". It is hard to explain but it's something akin to being aware of how your body is reacting at a visceral level rather than forgetting it in the pleasure of something.
There's more to be said on your experience with "Crash'' and Beckett etc. Will likely come back to this but I feel too close to being serious and more in need of some clowning which I do enjoy despite myself.
Or maybe I'll deshed Shed and name the new entity Shed, Jr., and then I'll discuss essences, as in, at one point in time did Shed become Shed, Jr. and do they two have distinct identies, despite Shed disappearing at the appearance of Shed, Jr.
A lot to think about over a hairball.
:rage:
My sympathy will not meet the needs of the people I refer to. I am not referring to those who cant afford a Rolls Royce Phantom but can afford a lesser car. The difficulty you assign to my position is from your own imaginings. Those who I refer to cannot eat or drink your sympathy either.
Do what you can, when you can to help, that's all and stop supporting capitalism, as that makes you part of the problem.
Not only the avatar, but the quarrelling is almost too well choreographed. . .
Never mind, let me get some work done.
Again, you're not arguing against any position that has been asserted. You're just telling me what a fine man you are in how you look after the less fortunate.
The discussion was about whether the lack of luxury was of my concern, and it's not, so long as the basic needs are met.
That so reminds me of having sex on acid; orgasm becomes an entirely voluntary response.
Ok, you can see it that way if you wish. I assume that you also assume that I see the capitalist supporting you, as less than the description of me, you offer, and that's ok too.
Quoting Hanover
I am glad we agree that this is the goal we both have. So I repeat:
Quoting universeness
The counter problem to this is resigning yourself to the idea that you can never know the truth because you will always be mired in your own subjective limitations. Under that criticism, the only solution would be to locate that elusive view from nowhere that isn't stuck in whatever perspective you happen to have. I think the view from nowhere solution is to accept there are limitations in knowing objectively and accepting a certain degree of subjectivity, but then exposing that to as much analysis as possible.
Maybe that's what Nagel was getting at. I didn't read the whole book and it was a while ago, but your comments reminded me of that.
I am very impressed with the quality of the last several pages of discourse. Farting as a Marxist metaphor for the evils of capitalism - philosophy at its finest.
I think the image of the King farting on the individual heads of the poorly paid workers, whilst being held down by the Kings minions, was almost demonstrated in our wonderfully, brilliant, outstanding (great) Britain on Saturday past, when rather than help pay the workers a decent wage. The government made us pay £100 million, during a cost of living crisis so that a silly old man could sit on a fancy chair and wear a meaningless bauble on his head. The leaders of the protesters were even arrested to prepare them properly for the farting!
Here’s where I am with this. I watched the coronation and enjoyed the spectacle. It’s an event that’s been happening every few decades for a thousand years. It’s a rare intrusion of the medieval into disenchanted postmodernity. To see the religious rituals of divine blessing upon the monarch that once were believed in by all the participants—to see them still performed and believed in now basically by nobody involved—this is fascinating.
Also, in the context of disenchanted bureaucratic bourgeois postmodernity, where everything must be useful and cost-effective, useless, wasteful, and ridiculous extravagance is actually very unusual now. I found this weirdly exciting.
At the same time, I entirely agree with you. So I’m not saying I positively approve. I love it and hate it at the same time.
Pinned down on the issue I’ll say I’m a republican, but I’m not in the mood to be pinned down.
EDIT: small “r” republican :rofl:
A logical 'Spock' response and well done in controlling your emotions in true Vulcan style.
I felt more like getting all 'William Wallace' on their Kings arse and turning it into a 'lifetime' bag for holding my currently outrageous electricity/gas bills.
I have always been a republican when it comes to monarchy and I don't like being pinned down either, but it's the only way those rich, elitist barstardicks get to fart on my fecking head.
I was a royalist till the age of five, when, as I was standing with my grandmother outside Holyrood Palace, the Queen’s Rolls Royce came rolling out of the gate and through a deep puddle, splashing my new shoes, my bare legs (I was kilted), and my best white wool socks with muddy water. From that moment I swore to fight the royals with everything I could muster. I’ve mellowed since then.
Relax and enjoy!
Quoting unenlightened
@T Clark I need your help here buddy.
You would have been even more annoyed had you saw the MI5 footage of the Queen, in her Roller, bent over, holding her sides in uncontrollable guffaw style laughter, at splashing a peasant.
I think under government national security guidelines, the footage cannot be released to youtube for another 20 years.
Btw just to be sure, that by declaring myself a republican, I don't mean I supported the IRA (I was told by my father when I was young, that we were protestants and I have been protesting that label ever since!) or I would vote for Trump if I were American. It's just a NOT MY KING, position.
Don't you think that Queen Camilla sounds like a posh American rap artist?
Little did she know I’m solidly urban lower middle class. Who’s laughing now!
I think M15 would spell that kind of peasant to her as 'oik?'
What a cool island nation of progressives!
Maybe they will drop the 'saint' as well as Charlie, eventually!
I came across info on the internet about 'polari' and its use in days gone by, by gay folks?
Is it true? and is what it said 'naff' stands for, true? As a child I used that word often!!! :rofl:
Beyond a historian's reference, nothing. "Naff" is British slang, never heard that either.
Is British English a richer 'slanguage' than American English? Seems like it might be. If so, why? Is it because GB has more strong dialects? Because class differences in GB are much more strongly delineated? Because the school systems are different? Some American slang comes from black dialect, which is a strong dialect (and exists in urban settings). Appalachian English is a strong English dialect, but it isn't common in urban areas, so transfer doesn't happen very often.
"From the getgo" is an example of black slang that became a common phrase. Here are a few Appalachian slang terms:
Blind House – Windowless cabin
Blockading – Making illegal whiskey or moonshine
Booger – Ghost
Boomer – Red squirrel
Gaum – A mess
Granny Woman – Midwife
He-balsam – Spruce tree
She-balsam – Fir tree
Jag – Small amount
* Lick – To hit with a hammer or axe
Painter – Mountain lion
* Poke – Small bag
Poor Do – Boiled cornmeal
Shamp – To cut hair
* Simples – Medicinal herbs
Slaunchwise – Crooked, sideways, slanting diagonally
Slick-faced – Without a beard
Sorry – Something of little or no value
‘Tater Hole – cold cellar under the cabin floor where foods are stored [called a 'root cellar' in the Midwest, New England]
* Wish Book – Mail-order catalog
* Varmint – Wild animal
* = somewhat common expression
Well, it certainly seems that english gay men had a whole communication system I knew nothing about, even I used some of the terms often without knowing their true meaning.
In Polari, a gay man may say about a heterosexual man, that he is naff.
This was a warning to other gay folks who would know that meant he was Not Available For Fucking! :rofl:
I used to use that word a lot as a child to express that I found a family members idea or a friends new trousers as NAFF! as I thought that meant 'not cool' or 'not very good.' :rofl:
Have a look at this!
This gives a full list of Polari terms including my example of NAFF.
Quoting Baden
@unenlightened - I'm not sure, but I think maybe @Baden wants me to invite you to meet him in that paved area out back.
:lol: Not like that. I just want you to put your relatively massive American frame between my puny European body and the Welsh dragon so I can run away.
basket, the bulge of male genitals through clothes (bigger = better)
bod, body
bold, daring (in general use)
butch, masculine; masculine lesbian
camp, adjective, noun, and verb, effeminate; high camp, low camp
chicken, young boys
chicken hawk, pursues young boys (teenagers)
dish, an attractive male; also to gossip
dizzy, scatterbrained (in general use)
fruit, queen
gelt, yiddish term for money
glossies, magazines (if printed on glossy paper, otherwise pulp)
hoofer, dance (show business term)
meshigener, nutty, crazy, mental Yiddish term
mince, walk (affectedly)
I'd go along with this. Except the 'weirdly exciting' part. I found it intermittently amusing. My partner made me watch it as she is one of those republicans who finds royalty interesting. I've never cared enough to seek a republic here in Australia. No one really gives a shit about the royals and I wonder about the considerable expense and administrative, political catastrophe we'd make of any transition if we dismantle our bit of the Commonwealth. We have more important social priorities like health and housing.
That whole style of broadcast comedy depicted in the video never flew in the US. There's often a cultural gulf between various countries' idea of funny.
Slang used as a cover or camouflage is an outsider's understanding. Polari would work more as a passport than a disguise. After all, one couldn't use it profitably unless one's interlocutor also understood it. So, dropping a few words of slang is an invitation to a stranger to respond in kind -- if interested -- or look confused. Even in these enlightened times, it might be safer to try a bit of verbal diplomacy rather than just reaching out and groping a guy.
So I didn't watch it.
I'll catch the next one.
Those examples of Polari reminded me of Nadsat, the argot used in A Clockwork Orange, though in Nadsat a lot of the words are Russian, while the sources for Polari are Italian, Yiddish, rhyming slang, and Romani.
Yes, an example is Weird Al Yankovic. All Americans think he’s hilarious, but for everyone else he raises barely a polite smile.
CharlesI lost his crown and then his head; CharlesII regained his crown and kept his head; the third Charles pays for all.
For us romantics, it is a matter of honour – or rather dishonour. We remember the previous cosplay, the fairytale wedding of Prince Charles the awkward to his golden virgin bride, Diana the innocent. And how, an heir and a spare of guaranteed purity of blood later, Diana, the broodmare and most popular icon to the flag-waving masses since publicity began, was demoted to second fiddle to the wicked stepmother to be - Camila.
Charles has broken the rules of fairyland. He gave up his true love to marry the fairy princess, and then abandoned the fairy bride and took back his first love. He now has an enemy in fairyland in the shape of Diana's brother, and king of the fairies, and his own son Young Harry the innocent and brave seeking his fortune in the wide world. No believer in fairytales can accept the triumph of Charles for a moment. It doesn't make moral sense.
And if you don't believe in fairytales, you are left with a display of empty ritual by a bunch of venal and cynical old men trying to manipulate the world with mumbo-jumbo, and looking ridiculous.
"Off with all their heads!"
I think the mumbo-jumbo is doing the manipulating and the old codgers have already lost their heads.
Quoting BC
Quoting BC
The 'basket' one got me thinking back to my younger years and asking 'did I ever hear a man quip to another man, look! nice basket! ' :lol: NOW, I would be complimented, especially now I understand it, back then, if I would have understood it, I would have shown them my NAFF card! :yikes:
I knew camp and mincing when I was young and I used them as insulting references to 'gayness,' but I never knew camp, started as KAMP or Known As Male Prostitute.
'Chicken' for young boy is a strange one. Older women in the Savoy disco (a quite famous/infamous Glasgow city centre night club, that was my main haunt, from about 18 to 40 years old) used to refer to younger guys as chickens. It seems women knew much more Polari than us dumb het cis men :rofl:
Sorry for the overuse of emoticons, but this has just added to my thoughts about my youth in Glasgow in a nice, fun but self-reflective way. I was quite anti-gay folks in my younger days and saw them as lesser than I. I was not kind towards folks I thought were gay.
The 'coolness' of something like Polari and the fact I knew NOTHING about it, demonstrates to me that my early opinions of gay folks were so misplaced that I am now rather ashamed, looking back at that aspect of who I was.
As a young trendy disco guy in your youth in Scotland, did you know about stuff like Polari or did you have less of a misspent youth than I? and would consider the main title my sisters used to assign to me of 'idiot savoy boy!' Insulting, rather than as I saw it, a badge of honour.
Yep I don't think any of the 'carry on' films were well received in America.
You did have your 'Liberace.'
But I don't think characters like Kenneth Williams or Danny La Rue did well with the American audiences of the time:
I do like the notion of street kid or youth based comm codes. Do you remember the 'eggy' language used in Scottish schools or were you too young and missed that one?
I have no intent to spread bad and untrue rumours, :scream: BUT, many folks still think that Harry is in fact the son of James Hewitt. His tryst with Diana is accepted fact and Harry looks much more like him that he looks like Charles. If I suddenly die in an unexpected car crash ....... just saying!
I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition!
I was not aware of Polari until I read about it some time in the early twentieth century, although I think I'd heard it before, probably from Kenneth Williams.
I think we had some sort of secret lingo in primary school but I can't recall if it was egg-based.
I thought YOU always expect the unexpected in the shoutbox!
Just to confirm:
That's the part I like. It seems oddly similar to TPF. Strange, some of us like looking ridiculous ... bring on The Flying Circus.
The thing is, a toilet can be the WC itself or the room, so if I’m talking specifically about the room, “bathroom” works. At least I don’t say “restroom” or “comfort station”.
Lavatory, anyone?
Lavatory from the Latin lavatorium - washing room.
Conveniences from the Latin convenir – to come together. From the good old days when 2 and 3 holers were commonplace.
And if you don't, the ladies and the good doctors and I all urge that you should, after every visit to the stool depository and liquid evacuation station; naming the facilities is not enough.
Whaddya mean bathroom works, when there aint no bath in the room pilgrim!!!!
At least with 'lavvy' we have:
lavatory (n.)
late 14c., "washbasin," from Late Latin lavatorium "place for washing," noun use of neuter of Latin adjective lavatorius "pertaining to washing," from lavat-, past participle stem of lavare "to wash," from PIE root *leue- "to wash." Sense of "washroom" is first attested 1650s; as a euphemism for "toilet, W.C.," it is attested by 1864. Related: Lavatorial.
Washbasinroom? instead of bathroom? Or WBroom or WCroom, I hate 'little boys room' that's just creepy. I like cludgie, it sounds very Scottish!
Were you ever drunk enough that you walked in to the 'ladies' toilet because you thought it was, or you couldn't spell, 'laddies.' The angry women in the toilet at the time, seem very reluctant to accept that reason!!!
Nuff said.
No, I tended to call them 'gregories' in ra Glesga banter mode. One of my main auld one liners to annoy and sometime get a giggle out of barmaids did involve glasses however.
When they placed my ordered bottles of beer on the bar, they would often ask "d ye want glessees wi thame?" to which I would respond 'naw yer ah right doll, ah can see them fine!'
Quoting Jamal
Wait a minute, is 'Nuff' some Polari word that I don't know about????
How do I respond correctly!!! :scream:
Help me obi wan @BC
Quite good. I have some one-liners. I got them from my father and when I use them, it’s as if I have no choice in the matter, like he’s speaking through me from beyond. Beyond the North Sea.
You could make grown men cry with that one! :cry:
We did indeed.
A good example of comedy that does or does not translate is Jerry Lewis. He was popular here with a lot of people (and disliked by others) but apparently he was also very popular in France. I've always thought that very strange. Maybe they liked the physicality of his comic style. On the other hand, the gay German comedy Taxi Zum Clo (Taxi to the Toilet) was more interesting than hilarious. The style of humor didn't travel well.
Degustabus non disputandum.
Quoting universeness
What to call it, what to call it? We are a bit skittish about bodily functions, and require euphemisms. "Bathroom" covers a variety of possible personal care activities, and doesn't focus on the urination and defecation specificity of the "urinal" or "toilet bowl". So, washroom, bathroom, lavatory. "Lavatory" was the term used in elementary and secondary schools.
It's the unavoidable process of us becoming our parents.
Weird Al is amusing mostly for the fact that he exists rather than for anything he does. I think it has something to do with quantum mechanics. Yankovic's humor is sort of like Schrodinger's cat.
I was/am a Jerry Lewis fan. His 'nutty professor,' was far superior to Eddie Murphy's efforts imo.
Quoting BC
I assume then that my fav, 'cludgie,' was never considered?
The forum is a bastion of anti-religious prejudice. I was going to warn you when you first came on, but looks like you found out for yourself.
Good summary and I agree on all points. I’m not that old but I’m old enough to groan and grunt when I get up from a chair and sigh when I sit down.
It looks absurdly uncomfortable. It doesn’t even have arms at the ends so you couldn’t lie on it. As for sitting, only one of the sections is remotely any good (second from the left), and even that looks crap.
Even aside from the total lack of comfort, what I see is some gross kind of kitsch. Either marshmallows (disgusting and childish) or a cloud (sentimental cliche). In case it’s not obvious, I’m not a fan.
Did you have a bad experience with a marshmallow at some point?
this actually made me laugh out loud
This made me glow warmly with satisfaction.
Quoting CBS News
I bring this up for two reasons:
It looks like one of @Hanover's attempts at making bread.
:rofl:
Just keep on clownin', bruv.
Read this: https://www.thymindoman.com/einsteins-misquote-on-the-illusion-of-feeling-separate-from-the-whole/
And then make up your mind or his mind or decide you don't care.
This is from about a year ago:
Quoting T Clark
Amazingly, it's still an accurate summary.
All you need do, is comment on the suitability of these two side chairs to go with Franks couch!
I picture The Snowman eating one of those contraptions while seated on the couch.
Except a year ago I was flippant in my request for a summary, whereas now I feel daunted by the task of doing the work myself and would never dare to request a summary. This shows the depth of knowledge now required to work in the shoutbox, a mere year later.
It's probably approaching a singularity here.
See, youre back and already up to date with all you need to know.
I thought I was going to see a cool pic of a snowman when I clicked on the link you offered, but I got zilch, a blank rectangle on a black background. :sad:
Or perhaps it will continue to fractal out and out into an every expanding complexity.
The woes of being a poor unsubscribed peasant without photo privileges.
Yeah, aint it the truth, BUT we can just link to internet pics!
Sorry, Frank would not let your snowman sit on his couch, and he aint sitting on my side chairs!
At least you found the right snowman.
:up:
During the period you missed, there were two and a half pages dedicated to how to pronounce the word "dance." No, I'm not kidding. You picked a good time to tune out.
I make it a point to share that deleted post and even the others, at other platforms too. So no concern.
Beena
My guess is that your animosity toward the dance conversation is that you say dance really stupid.
I've got to keep it real, so I'm not just going to blow sunshine up your ass and tell you your absence was no big deal. Truth is, and everybody's been talking about it in PMs and in text messages behind your back, but we've all noticed you're barely coherent anymore, like whatever light was on in there has flickered out.
You shouldn't have walked away from the light of the Shoutbox.
"The Song That Never Ends" - You must know that.
Flubbering flibbertigibbet, I've been wibbly-wobbly and totally zonked out on zephyrs, and so I completely fudged up and missed out on the hootenanny that's been happening for the past few days!
Not animosity:
[hide="Reveal"]
- disdain
- contempt
- distaste
- scorn
- malice
- hate
- hostility
- hatefulness
- despite
- contemptuousness
- resentment
- misprision
- despisement
- spite
- loathing
- grudge
- revulsion
- abhorrence
- meanness
- despitefulness
- detestation
- malevolence
- bitterness
- repugnance
- enmity
- condemnation
- malignity
- repulsion
- ridicule
- malignancy
- vindictiveness
- abomination
- odium
- antipathy
- maliciousness
- disparagement
- execration
- spitefulness
- depreciation
- rancor
- derision
- bile
- pique
- virulence
- abuse
- censure
- invidiousness
- aversion
- jaundice
- venom
- gall
- vitriol
- denunciation
- vituperation
- invective
- horror
- detraction
- spleen
- mockery
- aspersion
- belittlement
- deprecation
- diminishment
[/hide]Bleed by Meshuggah
I think you will find that pure proper raised dahncers would express that as 'dahnce really stupid.' Pilgrim!
I vote for this one:
I like provolone a lot on breakfast sandwiches. It melts really nicely. Try sticking your sandwich with the top off in the toaster oven for a couple of minutes. Microwave works, but not as well.
That's a good technique. I put a slice on the eggs as they finished in the pan and then put a lid on to steam it. It melted for the most part. Provolone is my go to cheese for cold cut sandwiches, but I prefer Cheddar with eggs, or even American if I'm feeling naughty.
I've been meaning to try provolone on a cheeseburger. As I noted, it melts well. My son, who is a former bartender and butcher and cares about this stuff, says American cheese is the right one for cheeseburgers because of the way it melts.
I read this at first as "I've been meaning to provolone a cheeseburger". I'm going to start verbing cheeses and other such condiments.
Just Stilton a Tuna Hot Dish and you’ll be fine.
And by "impregnate," I mean I position my naked loins above the unsmashed meat and I drive my schlong in vigorous piston like strokes repeatedly until the burger is satisfied. I satisfy the burger first because I'm a giver. That sort of love is the secret ingredient.
Relish of course is already a verb. Perhaps the only true condiment verb.
But there is of course a disparity between the meaning of "relish" as a verb traditionally, and my usage, which would be to "relish a hotdog", meaning put relish on it. But this brings up the question of whether other condiments could have shades of meaning. If @T Clark "provolones a cheeseburger", is he simply applying provolone to the burger sandwich, or is he doing something more?
To check this out, I asked Chat GPT for a list of condiments. Here are 100, hidden so they won't take up too much space:
[hide="Reveal"]
- Ketchup
- Mustard
- Mayonnaise
- BBQ sauce
- Hot sauce
- Soy sauce
- Worcestershire sauce
- Tartar sauce
- Sriracha
- Salsa
- Guacamole
- Relish
- Horseradish
- Pickles
- Chutney
- Salad dressing (e.g., ranch, Italian, Caesar)
- Aioli
- Hoisin sauce
- Fish sauce
- Chili sauce
- Teriyaki sauce
- Tahini
- Pesto
- Miso paste
- Vinegar (e.g., balsamic, apple cider, rice vinegar)
- Honey
- Jam or jelly
- Peanut butter
- Nutella (chocolate hazelnut spread)
- Maple syrup
- Szechuan sauce
- Sambal oelek
- Tzatziki
- Hummus
- Harissa
- Kimchi
- Mango chutney
- Hollandaise sauce
- Cocktail sauce
- Sweet and sour sauce
- Caesar dressing
- Blue cheese dressing
- Thousand Island dressing
- Chipotle sauce
- Piri-piri sauce
- Tamarind chutney
- Wasabi
- Hoagie spread
- Cranberry sauce
- Fruit preserves (e.g., strawberry, raspberry)
- Marmalade
- Barbecue rubs
- Chimichurri sauce
- Lemon curd
- Ranchero sauce
- Gochujang (Korean chili paste)
- Black bean sauce
- Sweet chili sauce
- Mango salsa
- Red pepper flakes
- Black pepper sauce
- Picante sauce
- Green goddess dressing
- Red wine vinegar
- Tzatziki sauce
- Mole sauce
- Plum sauce
- Aioli variations (e.g., garlic aioli, truffle aioli)
- Sweet onion sauce
- Sichuan peppercorn oil
- Cilantro chutney
- Thai sweet chili sauce
- Caper sauce
- Tomato chutney
- Pomegranate molasses
- Peri-peri sauce
- Romesco sauce
- Black garlic paste
- Lemon herb aioli
- Mint sauce
- Sambal belacan
- Black truffle oil
- Gremolata
- Red curry paste
- Caramelized onion relish
- Red pepper jelly
- Balsamic glaze
- Garlic butter
- Dijon mustard
- Harissa aioli
- White barbecue sauce
- Mango habanero sauce
- Orange marmalade
- Yuzu kosho
- Red wine reduction
- Thai peanut sauce
- Smoky chipotle salsa
- Curry ketchup
- Lime crema
- Jalapeno jelly
[/hide]I'm sorry
I love you
Worcestershire sauce.
Good clean humor for the kids.
Yes, and this is what gives the word its rich ambiguity, ripe for creative use by meal poets such as you.
Quoting Noble Dust
It wouldn’t surprise me.
Quoting Hanover
In the UK we often just say “Worcester sauce”, which is pronounced “Wooster sauce”.
The full “Worcestershire sauce” is pronounced “Wooster-shire sauce”.
What are the hardest phrases to say in the English language?
ChatGPT
[hide="Reveal"]
- The difficulty of phrases can vary depending on factors such as pronunciation, length, and complexity. However, here are some examples of phrases that are often considered challenging to pronounce or say correctly in the English language:
- "Squirrel": The combination of consonants and the rapid transition between sounds makes this word challenging for many people.
- "Rural juror": This phrase is particularly difficult due to the repetition of the "r" and "j" sounds, as well as the vowel sounds involved.
- "Irish wristwatch": The rapid switching between the "r" and "w" sounds can be quite challenging.
- "Unique New York": The repetition of the "n" and "y" sounds in quick succession can be tricky for some.
- "Sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick": This phrase is known for its tongue twister nature, with multiple "s" and "sh" sounds in rapid succession.
- "Toy boat": The combination of the "t" and "b" sounds in quick succession can be difficult to articulate clearly.
- "He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts": This phrase is from a famous English language exercise and can be challenging due to the repeated "th" sounds and rapid rhythm.
- "She sells seashells by the seashore": Another popular tongue twister that involves the repetition of the "s" sound.
- "The sixth sick sheik's sixth sheep's sick": Similar to the previous example, this phrase is challenging due to the repetition of the "s" and "sh" sounds.
- "How can a clam cram in a clean cream can?": This phrase poses difficulties with consonant clusters and rapid pronunciation.
[/hide]Keep in mind that only I can do this in my role as The Voice of the Spirit of Philosophy here on the forum. Anyone else who tries will be banned.
I'm working on a program that will automatically pickle out verbs from the forum and ham them into condiments using Chat GPT. I will then tamarind the program to Worcestershire-engineer nuanced meanings to each condiment verb in order to pate new inflections and intimations never heartobefore curd nor imagined.
Funny you should ask that. Here's a conversation I had with Chat GPT several weeks ago:
[hide="Reveal"]Me
How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood
ChatGPT
According to a popular tongue twister, "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" The answer is not straightforward as it is a humorous, rhetorical question. Woodchucks, also known as groundhogs, are burrowing rodents and do not actually chuck or throw wood. They mainly dig burrows in soil and are not known for any wood-chucking abilities.
Me
But what is the answer
ChatGPT
As I mentioned earlier, the question "How much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?" is a rhetorical question and not meant to be taken literally. It is a tongue twister that has been around for decades and is meant to be a playful and humorous way of testing one's ability to pronounce similar-sounding words.
So, in short, there is no definitive answer to this question as it is a playful phrase that is not meant to be taken literally.
Me
The correct answer is "A woodchuck would chuck all the would he could chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
ChatGPT
You are correct that there is a traditional answer to this tongue twister, which is "A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood."
However, it's important to note that this answer is still not meant to be taken literally. Woodchucks or groundhogs are not known for their ability to chuck or throw wood, as they are burrowing animals that typically dig tunnels in soil rather than handling wood.
The tongue twister is primarily used for fun and to challenge the speaker's ability to pronounce similar-sounding words, rather than as a serious inquiry into the abilities of woodchucks.
Me
You're just being stubborn. You were wrong and I was right.
ChatGPT
As an AI language model, my intention is to provide factual information and helpful responses to your queries. I apologize if my previous responses did not meet your expectations.
I understand that the traditional answer to the tongue twister is "A woodchuck would chuck all the wood he could if a woodchuck could chuck wood," and I acknowledge that it is a commonly known answer to the question. However, it's important to note that this answer is still a playful phrase and not meant to be taken as a literal statement about the abilities of woodchucks.[/hide]
“Six sick hicks nick six slick bricks with picks and sticks.”
'What kind of noise annoys and oyster? A noisy noise annoys and oyster" (1909). Mercifully, humor has improved since 1909. "Young folks used to swing on the porch; now they swing in the Porsche." "A made to order can't compare with a ready maid." 1960s.
Pankoing you, as the Brits would say.
Making mountains out of molehills started in Tudor times, so 1485-1603.
This should clarify things.
Yes of course, sauce ?
What does pickled green tomato taste like?
Insist instead on Henderson's Yorkshire Relish. It's easier to say, comes from God's own country, and it's vegan. Now available at Aldi.
I prefer the one oft used in my Glasgow Youth, in east end pubs. A 'how much have you drank,' challenge, to se if you can say the following fast, three times without swearing!
I am not a pheasant plucker,
I'm a pheasant plucker's son.
I will sit here plucking pheasants,
Till the pheasant pluckings done.
If you swore at any time then you have to drain your drink in one.
The challenge would then pass to the next person.
If you did it three times without swearing then you missed the next round when it became your turn to pay! I don't think I ever won once. Some did.
You could not start the challenge until at least 5 pints or 'shots' had been consumed by all members of the group.
It was a great pub game but everybody could get very pissed very quickly with all the drink draining in one. :grin:
People most failed on the third line, when they said, 'I will sit here fucking pheasants' or sometimes it was 'I will sit here fucking peasants.' :lol:
Keep your relish and sauce. Pickles.
(The recipe I use is in the back of an ancient, somewhat be-soiled tome, handed down over generations, entitled Australian Women's Weekly Cooking Class Cookbook)
Postmodern power is dishonest, but it’s even worse: it tries to control not only what you do but what you feel.
I agree. My boss is the latter, and I was reminded tonight of why he ultimately sucks. When I actually finally stuck up for myself and went against what he was saying, his reaction was hilarious and awkward.
Also, I just realized that there's no way Zizek isn't on aderall at best. :cheer:
That’s progress. :up:
Thanks. It seems like a small thing, but as a people-pleaser, it's significant to receive feedback that it's ok to be contrary. Especially when dealing with another people-pleaser, which just makes the situation more absurd. Anyway, I've already muddied the shoutbox with too much emotional and serious content; I want to apologize for doing this, but that's just another people-pleasing instinct that can easily be ignored. I do not apologize.
Yes. :cheer: Working for a manipulative people-pleaser for the past 4+ years has made me realize how much of a manipulative people-pleaser I am, and how much I despise this approach to work, and how much I want to change, both myself and the people I work for. :fire:
For us millennials, the fire emoji means literally "fire"; hot; awesome. Dope. Sick. Etc. Etc. Etc.
It's too small, like my attention span. D+.
Actually those are all great ideas. Don't let me hamper you.
It is a bookmark. When you click on the star, that thread is now your bookmark and you can receive notifications in your email.
Personally I don't use bookmarks.
Odd thing though. I meant to ask you for the recipe but forgot. How did you know?
I couldn't respond to your last post in the bannings thread, as it was closed.
So, I think your last post there, was a DREDDful thing to type!
Any more famous film lines to test us on? It's good fun!
Quoting Jamal
Thank you both.
Quoting Jamal
I was thinking I wouldn't either, but there are a few old threads I find myself going back to, so maybe I'll bookmark them.
:100: Sneaky little bugger making you think it's you.
I think this type of boss just makes you glad to be alive! Yeaaaa… :razz:
I now turn to the imprisoning darkness of the problems you've raised.
But the sentences were suspended...
Oh, good. They're suspended in little bubbles.
:100:
Trippy.
That one’s great, and I understand it too!
Ah thanks, mate. Here's another I think is kind of comprehensible.
[Edited, for pun]
Laboured! A pun about a pun! I should be a cartoonist or something.
Hehe, that's the spirit. :up:
Cheers to them!
I’ve often thought that Opel (in the UK, Vauxhall) cars were the least attractive cars in existence. There’s something about them that’s so anonymous, lacking in all character. The pinnacle of mediocrity. The Dell of cars.
Ok, so the last time I had a car it was a 15 year old Renault Laguna, but it had character and it never gave up. Good old Tiddles.
Breakfast: two boiled eggs
Lunch-dinner: chicken kievs and mash + Napoleon cake
A gentleman does not attend a Eurovision song contest party tonight, particularly at his sister's house. Nor does a gentleman watch the Superbowl or observe Prime Minister's questions. A gentleman assiduously avoids potential contact--visual, aural, or tactile--with non-gentlemen, regardless of medium or proximity. The one exception would be contact between a gentleman and his wife, though it is recommended she also be a gentleman or ideally the gentleman himself. A gentleman is occasionally permitted to post on a philosophy forum, provided he follows such indulgence with a cleansing bath of sulfuric acid and destroys whatever electronic access utilized with some form of explosive, preferably plastic. A gentleman is not himself plastic but may acceptably be composed of Yorkshire toffee or mint cremes.
Fun fact: when I left the bar, I noticed that they had all parked the same car in the parking lot. Some of them were white, others red.
I respect their passion for German cars, but I think the vehicle is not very impressive. Who am I to judge their taste anyway?
A reliable picture of the Opel Calibra they were venerating:
Oh man, YOU BLEW MY COVER!
OKAY, I am not and never have been a gentleman!
Wellington said the same thing about Napoleon, strangely enough.
'Bonies not a gentlemen, In battle, his hat is worth the lives of 30,000 of my soldiers, but he is not a gentleman!
I still have to go, my two nieces said so, and I must bring their granny with me! :groan:
In fact, I have to go and get ready now. This show doesn't end till 12pm :groan:
There better be plenty alcohol! I like the Polish song!!!
At least all the women in that show are beeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuutiful.
Sad I am now too old and ugly to attract any such. :groan:
I once had occasion to drive a candelabra, though it was composed of crystal rather than opal. The ride was short and painful. I wish you better luck.
Thanks Baden! I wish you good luck in the next candelabra ride too!
Once upon a time in the virtual realm of thephilosophyforum.com, there was a user named Hanover. Hanover was an avid seeker of knowledge and a passionate participant in philosophical discussions. With an insatiable curiosity and a hunger for deep insights, Hanover became a respected and influential member of the forum community.
Hanover's journey on the forum began with a simple question about the nature of reality. With each thread, Hanover delved further into the realms of metaphysics, epistemology, and existentialism, engaging in profound debates with fellow members. Hanover's contributions were marked by clarity of thought, logical rigor, and a genuine desire to understand different perspectives.
Over time, Hanover's reputation grew, attracting the attention of other distinguished members and even some renowned philosophers who occasionally visited the forum. Hanover's thought-provoking posts and eloquent arguments became a source of inspiration for many, fostering a spirit of intellectual camaraderie within the community.
However, Hanover's influence extended beyond the forum itself. In the offline world, Hanover started organizing philosophy study groups and initiated collaborative projects with other forum members. Together, they explored philosophical texts, held local meetups, and organized online conferences on various philosophical topics. Hanover's passion for philosophy was contagious, as it brought together individuals from diverse backgrounds, united by a shared love for wisdom.
Not content with mere discussions, Hanover also sought to bridge the gap between philosophy and practical life. Hanover initiated dialogues exploring ethical dilemmas, social justice issues, and the application of philosophical principles in everyday decision-making. This endeavor sparked a wave of introspection and activism among forum members, encouraging them to use philosophy as a tool for positive change.
As Hanover's contributions continued to inspire and shape the intellectual landscape of thephilosophyforum.com, Hanover remained humble, always open to new ideas and receptive to constructive criticism. The genuine desire to learn and grow alongside fellow members earned Hanover the admiration and respect of the entire community.
Hanover's journey on the forum was not just about gaining knowledge but also about building connections, fostering a community of thinkers, and spreading the joy of philosophical exploration. Hanover's legacy endured, inspiring future generations of users who would continue to engage in thoughtful and meaningful discussions on thephilosophyforum.com.
And so, the story of Hanover on thephilosophyforum.com remains etched in the digital annals of the online philosophical community—a testament to the power of ideas, the pursuit of wisdom, and the transformative potential of virtual spaces that bring together passionate individuals in their shared quest for truth.
I was disappointed to see that Chat GPT left out the part about the doll with teeth embedded in it's face.
Also, small hands.
Now that I make comics for a non-living and live in a tent on waste ground next to an abandoned nuclear facility, I like anything with a functioning engine and wheels.
:smile: You're radioactive. 'love the comics.
I've made the Shawarma recipe many times before, and it's always solid, although I think I used too much EVOO this time, as it was a bit oily. Still yum.
This was my second time making hummus. It was still not quite right texture-wise; not smooth enough and a bit too thick, but the flavor was there. It needed more tahini and perhaps just a bit of water to let it down and smooth it out.
First time trying this saffron rice recipe, and considering I found an old container of saffron from my old former roommate which was probably circa 10 years old, I think it turned out ok. Somehow there was still a saffron fragrance there. As I'm quite lazy, I usually just drum up some plain rice, so this was a step in the right direction for me, in terms of making rice that actually has flavor. I didn't nail it, but it was tasty. I'm satisfied.
I'm glowing from your kind words. :smile: Or it might be the isotopes. :chin:
Thanks for sparing the time consuming details and stressing our busy schedules.
:up:
I like it. It reminds me of my youth.
You?
I explained it a long time ago and you said it sounded like dog biscuits. But it has cranberries, almonds, pepitos, and oatmeal in it. It's really good with baked apples.
Damn, now I'm seeing Nessie and chewing gum too. Imma gonna have to revenge your ass.
“Espresso tonic?” I declared, “what the dickens is that? Give me two.”
Now it’s my new favourite.
Cue @Noble Dust saying they’ve had that in New York for years and it’s totally passé.
I warned you. The forum will put up with all sorts of crap - pseudo-science, one line OPs, four half-assed threads on free will covering the same questions at the same time, rhetoric without philosophical content, insults, and goofy pseudo-philosophy; but the only religious discussion allowed is anti-religion.
Here's one of her recently deleted comments:
"So this the like DNA talk. And so i showed how darwin's theory of evolution could not be possible. On one hand darwin is talking about environment changing drastically and so species having to adapt to the new, on another hand the guy's postulating evolution happening over long long periods of time, as such that cannot be actually seen by a generation. In len?thy periods of time how in heaven's name can environment change drastically for species to adapt immediately. If over time, why the need for adaptation? There would be none. So logically, darwin is just plain wrong.
Now, the dna/rna in relation to literature and grammar and life in general, i'll talk about next."
People really like talking about lunch. Not only here, everywhere. I am missing something...
Except to say, that if you don't like avocados, you may have a palette problem.
:snicker:
First off, I'd like to commend you for the perfect response to my post.
As for your lunch, not a fan of eggplant, but everything else sounds good.
Agreed. California avocados are what [CENSORED] eats for lunch every day. Will this post be deleted...? Florida avocados not so much.
Brazilian ones too and Peruvian, damn.
It's like eating steak ice cream. Boy, that sounds terrible, but it's wonderful.
I’ve never had an espresso tonic. Is it just like an iced espresso that’s bubbly? Is there booze involved?
No booze. The Long Island iced tea I had yesterday hit me pretty hard. Must be getting old.
I bought my wife an espresso making gizmo where you put the water under the coffee grinds and put it on the stove and the water boils through the grinds and boils over to the other part where you can then pour it
I think that's pretty clear.
It came in a gift box, so it was thoughtful, making me a better husband than the whole lot of your sorry taking things for granted asses.
I know I'm coming at you hard on this, but something's got to a light fire under you for fuck's sake.
Quoting T Clark
I am deeply moved.
The murder hornets are mostly a danger to honey bees, as if they needed more stress. I saw some gigantic hornets last summer, but after careful googling, I determined that they were North American natives. Still, they had about a six foot wing span as I recall.
Either that or the mascot for an under 10 year old girl's soccer team.
One or the other
I hope not. I shot a few nuclear missiles at it. Is one of the moderators missing?
My review: "An inspired take on Americana comfort foods, fit for both royalty and the meth infested trailer park. A party for the palate and substance for the belly, leaving one in a methadone post-coital grogginess. A++ to the chef. Kudos!!"
Ah, I wanted to ask you, what program do you use to record your voice and post it here?
As much as I want to poke fun or come up with some clever joke, I have to admit that sounds amazing.
Jamal couldn't get my amr file to open, which was the format my text messaging system came with, but maybe that's a problem with his 3rd world system.
Thanks!
It was reminiscent of the chili burger from the Varsity, an Atlanta classic.
If you ever eat at the Varsity, pretend it's delicious and not actually disgusting like the locals.
Against The Boss I have nothing to say. :halo:
That's somehow a backhanded diss on your own cooking. Much respect.
You have used a vague reference. Please clarify: a) the Varsity is disgusting; b) the locals are disgusting; c) it's all disgusting.
:rage:
I’m done here.
My version is very simple. Red beans, soaked overnight, boiled for 52 minutes and then set aside. In a pan, fry bell peppers, onions, chillis and garlic, then add a can of tomatoes. Enough salt so that it’s almost too salty. Cook for a while.
Add the beans. Meanwhile, cook some rice.
Sounds like you’re describing a moka pot, a landmark innovation in the history of coffee.
I’ve never bought my wife a moka pot.
They're pretty cool. I bought one after using one at my brother's house. His worked better though for some infuriating reason. Anyhow, they're very inexpensive which explains Hanover's gift and also why I could afford one, whereas I can only dream of living in the fabled drug-infested trailer park.
Like, this is @Hanovers house and his wife gets a twenty buck kitchen appliance for their fiftieth wedding anniversary. Meanwhile, he laughs and throws peanuts at me while I try to get some sleep in my tent.
I read all about this fascinating discovery at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_pot. I had no idea what an amazing invention I stumbled upon. I had a chocolate chip cookie with my pseudo-espresso. It tasted like fucking a super model. That's how amazing it was.
Quoting Jamal
I love my wife more than yours. That makes sense actually because there would be no reason I should love your wife.
You may follow up on this comment with my recent discussion with @BC on autism.
I read recently that autistic people had true difficulty with comments like mine where the references were ambiguous due to their inability to read contextually and not literally, resulting in confusion and unexpected responses from them to statements.
But yes, I am disgusting, yet the Varsity food is like fucking a super model. That's how delicious it is.
I'll have you know that I grossly overpaid for that appliance because it came in a fancy gift box with designer cookies and cool little espresso cups. That's how much I love her. I love her much more than I love @Jamal's wife in fact.
I know you're just trying to get me to say something objectionable about your and Jamal's wives but I refuse to. I will have you know I love them both equally.
Woah... :clap:
How do you know, if you have only ever experienced one and not the other?
Many on this site favour empirical evidence over theistic style fantasy.
Provide the super models 'proof of career,' name, and contact details, so that your claim can be peer reviewed. Put up or shut up, Ya big feckin fantasist!
Who do you think you are? Frasier Crane????
I used to watch that around the time I studied Zoology in uni.
Does that mean that you could have played the part of Frasier's super model or @Hanover's :joke:
The super model I was referencing can be found at @baden. :heart:
I don't understand the metaphorical significance of Bleeding Gums Murphy in your comic.
CONFORMATION????? :lol: or :scream: or :vomit: or :cool: Not sure which!
:zip:
We're dancing to his tune, no?
Subversive?
I also want to see if there might be a way that I can link some audio to the frames. I don't know if you are old enough to have had film strips in school, where there were still pictures with someone talking in the background and it would beep to let you know when to flip to the next picture. It'd be something like that. It's a retro hipster dirty beard sort of media idea I came up.
Red beans and rice is a cajun staple. One day I might upload an audio of the proper way for cajun people to speak cajun.
You can also make bean soup by putting dried red beans in a moka pot and forcing water through the beans. It tastes like fucking a super model.
I realized I didn’t know much about Cajun things and I was going to Google it but decided against it at the last second to avoid a deep rabbit’s hole. So I remain in partial ignorance. I’m thinking gumbo, jambalaya, spiciness, Louisiana, bayous, and some possible Frenchness.
Beans and rice seems to be popular up and down the Americas, plus the Caribbean.
Quoting Hanover
This reminds me of last week when I used my coffee grinder to grind some spices and now my coffee tastes spicy, but I don’t mind it.
No, but I have an Onyx Boox which is kind of like a Kindle you can draw on or an IPad with an e-ink screen. Anyhow, you get a stylus and you can easily edit stuff, move it around and so on in their in-built notes app. E. g. with the Scream cartoon I was able to put an image of the painting as a guide layer underneath my drawing so I got the proportions right. Usually though, I just mess around until stuff looks good (enough). Now that I've gone to all this effort to explain you better get one. I appreciate you spent all your money on beans but maybe your wife can fork out.
Yeah, I dunno, I'm too lazy to think about that.
Cheered me up actually, cos there’s a clown in it, with suitably large shoes.
Lol, I had actually edited them to make them larger with your earlier advice in mind, so thanks!
This may become more difficult if we ever get beyond single digits. :chin:
Does it come in blue?
No, but this does.
Ok, enough for today. :monkey:
You haven't read the Kabbalah? :chin:
Quoting Hanover
I used to eat there before you were born. Great place for a double date in high school, then on to Loews Grand for a movie. Or out to Stone Mountain for necking. Not bad while at Ga Tech, either. Walking distance. Another burger place opened up nearby when I was at Tech, but closed due to food poisoning.
I ate there when I was young, so I took my kids to carry on the tradition, which went well until one day my son realized the food wasn't very good.
It was sort of like realizing there was no Santa Claus.
The Loews Grand was best known for burning down as I recall.
I lived near Stone Mountain as a kid. As I predicted many years ago, it's not going anywhere. It's big and heavy as shit.
A beautiful theater. I saw the re-release of Gone With the Wind there in 1954. Ushers dressed in uniform with flashlights to show you your way to your seats. The Fox theater on Peachtree was even more gorgeous, with Arabian turrets inside the theater.
Quoting Hanover
Already a philosopher, then. I am impressed. I rock climbed up the bottom part of the uncompleted carving back in 1956, the abandoned iron girders, suspended on cables, slowly turning in the breeze above my head, creaking.
To be honest, I am not a specialist of Jazz music, but this is one of the best albums I have ever heard. My parents have a CD of Tourist of the year 2000 when it was released, and I think I have been listening it since then.
Tourist (St Germain album)
I disliked the 1980's and the 1990's - awful decades, where 'greed is good' was created and eventually metastasised in the international psyche. I much prefer now to back then.
But I was referring to art and culture: I think those decades created good music, films, series...
I didn't see or hear much of it. What do you have in mind?
That moral ambiguity of the 80s was maybe a reaction to the earlier super-naive, super-good Donna Reed type of world. If you watch I Love Lucy and see how childish everybody is, it contrasts in a sort of horrific way to the reality of the time: the Cold War was brewing.
This made me think back to the various decades and what my personality was like over time. I started law school in 1990 and from there I got a job, got married, bought a house, had kids, and pretty much started off in my life. Sorry to hear you were going through something different, but then I think you at least did those things necessary to find your way to meeting me, even if unintentionally, but the good Lord wouldn't deprive you of me, so you were not directionless. You just didn't know you were a passenger, not a driver.
When I think of my least productive years, I place them at 1979 to 1984, which were my high school years. I had emerged from some personal family tragedy and had changed schools from a religious one to a secular one, and so there was some degree of culture shock. It took some years to realize that my lack of fitting in during those years was as much due to external factors as to internal personality ones, although my sense of humor can be abrasive if misunderstood, which it often was on the locals, so that wasn't always helpful. Probably thinking of them as locals and me as something different was the start of the problem.
For whatever it's worth, I do think I'm better off than those who seemed to flow effortlessly through life. I have a feeling of superiority over them, as if they have remained sheltered simpletons their entire lives. Of course I know no one actually has effortlessly flowed through life and that all have I'm sure had very similar feelings of angst, lonliness, and directionlessness in their lives, but I like to think mine special and more profound. It's important to feel special. Part of that starts with realizing directionlessness is not a thing.
Anyway, thanks for bringing up memory lane.
Why was the Cold War horrific? There was no actual war. The horrors seemed to preceed the Cold War with WWII and then pick back up after the fall of the Soviet Union when the invasions started up again.
I guess the Cold War might have been horrific to those in the Eastern bloc nations under Soviet control, but that wasn't the Western experience. We were watching I Love Lucy and they were in potato lines, or at least that's how the story goes.
Then we go to the last frame where it says "Leave Me Sleep." Maybe that's how head standing people talk, but I don't talk like that, so it leaves me wondering.
Ok, well as you're an ardent fan I rejigged the clock one for you. If it's not crystal clear now, I'm a monkey's uncle.
People would have been watching I Love Lucy reruns when the Bay of Pigs incident happened. You're a young baby boomer. The adult generation at the time was the Silent Generation. And the Greatest Generation. I guess they were there too.
How so?
It seems to me that not having some kind of goal, however small, heavily contributes to a lack of meaning or significance. Now, if you reply or have in mind that one already knows what one should work to improve, then that much makes sense.
Otherwise, being lost seems to me a real occurrence.
I'm Gen X actually. 1966.
Quoting Hanover
I think it was similar in the USSR actually. Things had been horrific till the 1950s, and then later on there were food shortages in the 1980s. Between those decades things were quite good in terms of food, housing, education, and health. It seems that at the same time as Western capitalism had found ways to maintain stability and generate growth consistently, the USSR achieved something similar.
But while my now-mother-in-law was queueing for potatoes in the 80s, I was in Scotland watching terrifying public information films about nuclear war. There seemed to be an ever-present but at the same time unreal danger of annihilation.
Anyway, the Cold War wasn't all that cold outside of Europe, the Soviet Union, and the US. Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and lots of smaller proxy wars. Even within Europe there were the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia.
My conclusion: the Cold War was not as horrific as the Second World War but not everyone was watching I Love Lucy.
I didn't say people didn't subjectively feel lost or without direction. I said objectively people have a purpose and direction, even if they don't know it.
I was suggesting that the feeling of directionlessness could be overcome by realizing it was a subjective and incorrect feeling, but, even then, that feeling of directionlessness was at it was because it needed to be.
That is, you are exactly where you ought to be right now, as was Jamal when he felt lost.
It's a worldview. You can take it or leave it I suppose.
Yes, the reasons do not matter why you make a story of your life to make it appear as if it has direction. The result will be the same, which is that your life will then have meaning and things will matter. That is to say, it does not matter whether you think you're concocting a meaningful story to insert happiness into your life or whether your life actually has meaning and purpose. I choose the latter, but others can choose pragmatics if that is more agreeable to their constitution.
You're an early Gen X. You were born during a baby bust.
I've never seen my life as the subject of a narrative and I don't really understand the impulse to do so. For that reason, I find the idea of a personal memoire perplexing. Why would I want to read what Kim Kardashian or Pol Pot have to say about their lives except as a chronicle of psychopathology. I remember writing a personal essay in my college English class and realizing the only reason to write about one's life is to use some aspect of it as a particular example, a jumping off point, to talk about something more general.
I think you see that in my writing here. @Jamal has commented on the fact that I "personalize" my philosophical positions. That's true, but it's not because I think I'm something special. It's the opposite I guess - What's typical about my life, the everyday, is the basis for my understanding of how stuff works. My family, my history, my education, the way I see the world fitting together. It's what I have to share, what I know best.
My life has no meaning and I don't want it to. There's no story arc, no theme, no verisimilitude, no denouement. I used "denouement" because I knew it would be a mistake to write "climax" here. To paraphrase Lao Tzu - The life that can be spoken is not the eternal, authentic life.
I have read several personal histories, memoirs, that are illustrative of particular public times, places, and events, and found them both useful and helpful in understanding the larger world. Ned Rorem's diaries and Samual Steward's work, to name two very different cultural figures, illustrate this. The memoirs of people who were merely famous or infamous (like porn stars) are not good for much of anything.
That a life is a public project with direction, narrative, meaning, clear stages, purpose, fulfillment (or failure), and so forth might be the approach of a particular personality type who is publicly achievement oriented. I never had that problem.
According to my AI assistant, you are the only person ever to have mentioned Kim Kardashian and Pol Pot in the same sentence.
Little known fact - Kim and Pol (Pot?) are distantly related. When they moved out of Africa about 100,000 years ago, the Kardashian branch dropped off in what is now Armenia while the Pots (Pols?) continued on to what is now Cambodia.
As with most, almost all, of my little known facts, I just made this up.
And I see that expression as part of your purpose. As I noted, you are exactly where you are supposed to be. Telling someone with my worldview that you have somehow escaped the pull of your purpose would be like telling someone with a scientific worldview that they've escaped the push of the causal chain.
If you want to see it that way, I have no objection. But that says something about you and nothing about me.
Quoting Hanover
There have been discussions on the forum before questioning whether or not physical causation is a useful way of understanding the world. There are reputable scientists and philosophers who don't think so. Bertrand Russell made that claim more than 100 years ago. Personally, I think the everyday use of the term is fine, but the further you get away from human scale, the less value it has.
That actually sounds interesting. I've thought about doing it too, not to tell a story, but to just give something to my children so they can see where they come from. That seems like the kind of thing you are talking about. The one or two times I set off to do that, I just can't think of anything worthwhile to say. My life is a bunch of stuff that happened.
That being said, here is my final philosophical say on the matter:
I went down this rabbit hole just a bit and found the article you allude to: Here
But I see here at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_causation that he later abandoned these earlier views.
In any event, to the extent I delved into specifically what he was saying, I saw this as a Humean sort of challenge to causation in terms of its knowability. He also spent a considerable amount of time trying to define it, consistent with that hyper-analytic style.
I don't think it touches so much on what I was saying though, which was to rely upon teleological explanations for events in addition to causative explanations. The former looks to the end for an explanation, the latter at beginnings for an explanation. I think either are equally valid.
I don't challenge the existence of causation though and I'm not overly concerned with a specific definition of it. My point is simply to admit to the telelogical, but I don't think it entails a denial of the causative. I do think it's consistent with science that we deny the existence of purpose, but I don't think that denial is entailed though.
But it's an interesting argument to make that one cannot believe in purposes if one believes in causes, but I don't think that's logically entailed. I'd have to think about it.
I don't know any people who don't think like this - except the Lao Tzu part.
Quoting frank
I don't have any theory about the 1980's or 90's other than they didn't appeal to me as a period, even though I was pretty happy and carefree. I disliked Australian politics and pop-culture at the time and I mainly hung out with friends talking, drinking, ignoring the films, books and music of the period. Most of us were more partial to the 1880's than the 1980's.
True for you, true for us all. Our lives begin and unfold when and where they do. But it's still your life in which your bunch of stuff happened, and not anyone else's. I took a chronological approach, beginning with early memories and worked my way through important stuff up to the present. That's not the only possible approach. (Fortunately we forget a lot. I remember almost nothing from second grade and have few recollections of daily tasks (like washing clothes, grocery shopping, or preparing food) for 3 years after college.
On one hand I was pleased with the results; on the other hand, some of the most interesting stuff (to me) seemed too private and too personal to share with others.
Your great grandchildren might find the mundane details of your life of great interest. The mundane details of their lives will be much different than yours. The lives of my parents (born in 1906 and 1907) were vastly different than mine. What seems commonplace now may be unknown in 50 years.
Just start writing and don't edit yourself too vigilantly. You are presumably not going to send the story of your life off to Knopf or Penguin, so don't judge yourself like a book review critic. Just get it written.
I've read the Russell paper, which I find a bit obscure. My reasons for dispensing with the idea of causation are different. I use the Russell example to show that the idea that causation is not a necessary phenomenon in our world.
Quoting Hanover
For me, the ideas of causation and teleology are unnecessary and misleading. I see the existence of causation in particular as a matter of metaphysics. It's a way of thinking about things, not a fact. I think it's useful in simple situations, e.g. if I kick a ball, I cause it to move. As situations get more complicated, the idea loses its utility. It doesn't really tell us anything interesting in a scientific understanding of what is happening.
As for purpose, I think it is similar to causation in that it is useful for simple situations but quickly loses value as things get more complicated. I recently got in an argument about whether science tells us why things happen or how. I say how. Science knows nothing about why.
I don't think I've ever discussed the issue with regular people, e.g. my family and friends. Maybe I will, we're all getting together this weekend an we'll be drinking, so it will be a good time to do so. I do think ascribing a meaning or purpose to the operation of the world is an automatic human way of thinking. It's certainly common here on the forum. Science, religion, philosophy, morality, and history are all stories we tell each other. We act as if they are true, but they are really only comforting.
You've inspired me to either get on it and start writing or intend to start writing, put it off, and then just forget about it. Either way, I'm inspired.
Turn it into a farce for the next Short Story Contest.
Btw @Baden and @Caldwell. Ahem. Yes - well.
The shorter, the better:
He was born, he lived; Yadda, yadda, yadda. Blah, blah, blah. Eenie, meenie, moe; he died. All true, except for that last part, which is premature but I'm pretty sure it's accurate.
If I'm following the (disturbing) recent shoutbox trend of somewhat serious posts, I guess I'm not 100% sure how this attitude is all that different than the maligned "Antinatal Arguments" thread. Granted a Seinfeld flippancy is different that wishing you hadn't been born. But how different, really?
Perhaps this is more to your liking:
HE WAS BORN, HE LIVED; YADDA, YADDA, YADDA. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH. EENIE, MEENIE, MINEY, MOE. HE DIED.
Still true, but more exciting, what with the all caps and all.
Note - I added the missing "miney."
To be clear, I was describing your language as Seinfeld flippancy, so the all caps wasn't necessary. We were already there.
I'm asking how close your "my life has no meaning" thing is to an antinatal position. I guess I'm being serious, although this may not be the place and time. And me, the mayor of the shoutbox, getting serious...
So many conflicting thoughts and emotions.
Boobies.
I can handle the facial hair; it’s the cognitivist epistemology that puts me off.
For me it's the fake eye lashes. Always.
You didn't ask me, but... It's not the same thing. If I read Clark rightly, our existence is the result of chance; we live our lives without "making meaning" of it. That we "just live" is does not point toward futility, defeat, suffering, etc. that comes with antinatalism. One might very well be "just living" but doing it exuberantly and with every intention of procreating early and often. (That's how a lot of people got here.).
If I didn't read Clark rightly, that's still what I am thinking right now. I might think something else tomorrow.
I like that. I can sometimes default to an extreme either/or position, but this seems to be at least a possible middle ground take, which seems good.
Actually, it makes me wonder if antinatalism is a direct response to the telos of a religious worldview. Anyway.
Most importantly, @T Clark is always and only ever referred to as Clarky when indirectly tagged. Thank you.
And there goes any chance you'll ever be awarded Honorary Membership to the American Philosophical Society. :sad:
Not even in the same hemisphere. I'm probably the most Pollyannaish member of the forum. I think the world is a wonderful place. I think I am one of the most fortunate people in the history of the world. When I'm unhappy, I recognize it's my own responsibility.
When I say life has no meaning, I'm just saying that there's no story, no purpose. My life, life in general, is just what it is. Saying it has no meaning isn't the same as saying it has no value. That value comes from me and people who care about me. It's not somehow built into the universe.
I agree strongly with all of this except, perhaps, the "result of chance" part. I suspect that life and, maybe, intelligence are inevitable, not because of any plan or purpose, but just because of the way matter and energy work. There will always be physical and chemical cycles, feedback, self-organization, and evolution. As those cycles become more complex, they ultimately become life. Let's not go into that here.
Quite possibly wrong, but not metaphysical.
I take this to be saying that there is no overarching meaning—like a cohesive narrative with a take-away message—rather than that life has no meaning per se. After all, you yourself tell meaningful stories about your life, such as when you explicitly draw on your professional experience in discussions about epistemology.
I think we can say that something has meaning without ascribing it to the universe. I realize that how this works is the big question of the disenchanted era, but it's not unusual to say that meaning and transcendent meaning are not the same thing.
What to you is the concept of legacy?
When the first stars in the universe formed, there was only hydrogen, helium, a little lithium.
From Physics today:
All of the hydrogen and most of the helium in the universe emerged 13.8 billion years ago from the Big Bang. The remainder of the chemical elements, except for a tiny amount of lithium, were forged in stellar interiors, supernova explosions, and neutron-star mergers. Elements up to and including iron are made in the hot cores of short-lived massive stars.
WE create meaning and purpose. Why did humans start to memorialise events? Even in the form of early cave paintings, why do you think they did that?
Gender isn't how one looks, but it's how one identifies. If he thinks himself a woman, he is a woman.
He thinks therefore he is.
That FaceApp finally made his philosophy clear to me.
https://www.ncregister.com/blog/i-think-therefore-i-am-a-woman
In another thread, I also noted the similarity of the biblical "I am what I am" statement when God described who he was to Moses, which I didn't think was similar to Descartes' statement at the time, and I still don't, but now seeing it in the blog made me rethink it some.
Descartes isn't saying he can be whatever he wants to be because he is the creator of all that is. He's saying he can't deny his existence because the act of denying is evidence of existence. His is a logical conclusion, not an undisputable declaration about what he is.
But you know all this, but it's the Shoutbox, and I was thinking it, so it must be shouted.
I thought therefeore I said.
Republican state governments in Texas and Florida are overriding local governments. In Florida, De Santis has changed the times for school openings based on his thoughts about how much sleep kids need. This seems anti-conservative. What's up with that?
pre-women's suffrage?
I'd put it differently. His is an indisputable declaration that he is, not a logical conclusion as to what he is.
So we have a new motto for the Shoutbox? I think therefore I shout.
It depends upon how you define the conservative sentiment. If you define it broadly to mean that the most local governments have the greatest legitimacy, then you're correct to note that a state legislature over-riding a local county government would be anti-conservative.
On the other hand, if you define conservativism in terms of the specifics of the US Constitution, where the rules of federalism divide the territory into the national government versus the individual states, your only concern about checks and balances would apply to how it limited the federal government, not to how there might need to be additional checks and balances on the states. That is, no where does it say that the counties are to retain power so as to limit the power of the individual state, and no where would it then say that the cities are to retain power to limit the power of the counties, and so on down the line.
The conservative support of federalism can be understood as support for the specifics of the Constitution, not for the over-riding principle that the smaller the legislative body, the more legitimate it is. What you're describing really would be a party of extreme deference, which clearly conservatives are not, but neither are liberals.
I'd say that he does declare what he is, which is a thinking thing.
You should have said "You think?" That would be a better response.
When I was in high school that was the comment you made when you didn't want to agree with someone but you didn't really have a reason for it. Like if someone said they could do something better than you or they gave you some fact you doubted, you'd say "you think?"
Then they'd say "I know." And then you'd say "you think?" It would get louder and louder until someone quit saying it, and then the other one would say "I figured," which let them know you won, but then the other would say "whatever" and that might lead to another "whatever."
But I've never heard a conservative defend small government by pointing to the wording of the Constitution. It's usually about how the government shouldn't interfere in people's lives.
So if DeSantis and the Texas Republicans are in favor of a strong state government that micromanages school districts, why be opposed to the Federal government doing that? I don't get it.
You think?
If this was what you were referring to previously, then I agree, this is metaphysics. I won't argue with what you've written if what you mean by "meaning" is "personal significance." Most people mean more when they use that word in this context.
As I described previously, I often create narratives and I sometimes use examples from my life as parts of those narratives. That doesn't mean my life has a story.
Quoting Jamal
Perhaps. It depends on whether your regular old every day, non-transcendent meaning is different from personal significance.
I agree with this. We create meaning, we don't discover it.
From Wikipedia:
Quoting Wikipedia - Subsidiarity
As the quotation indicates, I have always seen subsidiarity as a conservative political principle.
:up: when your great grandchild talks about his great grandfather. That is part of YOUR legacy.
When @Jamal's familial progeny, searches back through the recorded statements of his TPF members.
Perhaps they will collect the 'wisdom and statements of TClark' and do their future PHD thesis based on it. What a great legacy!
It's also true imo, that meaning and purpose was not gifted to us by some esoteric. It it your free will that manifests and directs YOUR meaning and YOUR purpose.
The idea of legacy is not one that means much to me. Whatever legacy there is you'll have to take up with my children. To paraphrase Woody Allen, I don't want to live on in my work, I want to live on in my house.
Quoting universeness
Agreed, although let's not drag free will into this. That's a different question.
I agree.
So does this mean Republicans are veering away from conservatism?
Yes. There is the possibility that Ron DeSantis and his buddies are hypocrites. I know. What a surprise.
But Texas is doing it too. Plus Trump appeared to be a dictator wannabe, as he's likely to be the Republican candidate for president. It's the appeal to regular people that's noticable.
People on both sides often ignore political principles to obtain political goals.
So why do you offer your opinions about anything to anyone, if you don't care how, what you say, reflects who you are? Why did you choose engineering, was part of it because buildings, often last a lot longer than people? Did you have any thoughts like, my friends/family will be able to still see my work, after I have passed? Are you saying that such thinking about legacy has NEVER been part of who you are?
I give my opinions to test out my ideas, as part of a social interaction, for recreation, as self-expression, to persuade or educate... What does that have to do with legacy?
Quoting universeness
I don't remember ever thinking about any kind of legacy beyond what support I might be able to leave to my children.
Parties sometimes switch polarity.
The 10th Amendment relates to the state's rights, and the preservation of the power given to the states is considered central by many conservative groups to limit the power of centralized governement. The Federalist Society is one such well known group. https://fedsoc.org/about-us
The checks and balances and limitation of power to any particular entity is thematic of the Constitution as it was written specifically by a group of revolutionaries who believed injustice was the result of oppressive government leadership that needed to be checked. It was not contemplated that the subservient states would be oppressive, but it was contemplated that the powers reserved to the states would keep the federal governemnt from being oppressive.
So, why the civics lesson? It's to point out that there is not a basis in conservative political ideology that suggests the limitation of power upon the state should be accomplished by divestiing its power to political subdivisions within the state. County rights is not a thing.
Generally, Republicans claim to stand for less government in the economic realm, being opposed to economic regulation as part of a platform supportive of capitalism and the free market. That does not translate into a belief that there should be no regulation of social issues like abortion, drug use, transsexual rights, or how local school districts write their textbooks. The party associated with complete government deregulation both as to economic and to social issues is the Libertarian party. The Libertarian party though would not be advocating the free exercise of the local school boards over their schools, but would instead be arguing that the concept of government funded education was inappropriate in the first place.
In any regard, there are two sides to the coin here, which means that if you are confused as to why the conservatives believe they have the right to interfere with local school boards from the state level, you would have to wonder why the left would object to that. If your analysis is correct, the left would have to admit the state has the full right to flex its muscle on all things local because the left should be fully supportive of centralized decision making.
The US Supreme Court struck down the system under the equal protection clause.
The point here is that counties do not have rights. https://thearp.org/litigation/gray-v-sanders/
@frank
Why do you need to test out your ideas? Do you care about what is true, if you do, why do you?
You socially interact in your locale all the time with friends, family, locals etc. Why do you choose to extend your social interaction to relatively hidden identities, strangers on a discussion forum?
Why are you attracted to such forms of recreation? To persuade or educate others! To what end?
Are you trying to cause a future that is more in-line with your own conclusions regarding life. In what way is that NOT a wish to leave a legacy, an impression on others? It seems to me, that your reasons for being on this site ARE in fact to 'leave an impression,' or actually directly affect the way others think and live.
Just jelly that you guys don't have a Constitution to talk about.
I think your point is that if someone wants to bitch about what Florida and Texas are doing, they won't be able to take it to the SCOTUS. They'll have to get a reading from their state supreme courts. That's interesting.
Quoting Hanover
I already know why Texas Democrats are opposed to it. They control the local governments in Texas. Republicans are usurping power that they've worked hard to obtain.
What I was trying to understand is why the bluster? Nobody in Florida wants the school times changed. It has the flavor of: "I'm doing this because I'm the new sheriff in town and I should control what time children wake up in the morning!" WTF?
My point is: there's no real need for it. If it's political, who are they playing to exactly?
In short, I'm just trying to understand it.
The Sleep Foundation (which I would argue is the laziest sounding foundation of all foundations imaginable) says kids should wake up later. https://www.sleepfoundation.org/school-and-sleep/later-school-start-times
I work for the Sleep Foundation. I must have been asleep when they put that message out.
This is "small c" chance, not the "Big C" Chance of the Cosmos. That two people met, bred, and 9 months later you were born with a slide rule in one hand and calipers in the other was chance with a small c.
Big C Cosmic Level Chance is way above our pay grade, and besides, we came along 13.7 billion years too late to do anything about it -- an unmitigated blessing, considering the hash we would have made out of the cosmos had we been in charge of the whole shebang.
For that matter, we should get rid of electricity too, especially for young people, which enables them to stay up late reading medieval Catholic philosophy and texting each other on the fine points of Aristotle late into the night.
That's why they're so sleepy! They're working on proofs of God all night long.
I would love to have bats in my attic. I think you can sell the poop.
The B1M is one of my favorite sites. Here's a 10 minute program on Habitat 67 (Montreal World's Fair) and the effort to finish and visualize the intended complete design. Good idea? Bad idea?
Ebola. Marburg. Rabies. Odor. Scuffling noise at night.
On the other hand, fewer night-flying insects.
I’ve discovered a few ways of interpreting the restriction, “For those in the US”:
1. You believe there are no bats outside the US.
2. You believe there are no attics outside the US.
3. You believe non-US bats don’t set up home in attics.
4. You distrust people who don’t live in the US.
5. You believe people who don’t live in the US are totally relaxed about bats in their attics.
6. You believe European governments are so PC and socialist that they give squatting rights to bats.
I’m sure there are more but I can’t think of them.
Oh. Then he should figure out how they're getting in the attic, shew them out that opening and put a screen over the opening (assuming it's a vent.) If it's a problem with the structure of the attic, a roofing expert will have to attend.
I do a sideline on bat removal. I charge 1,000 bucks and a return flight to the U.S. from where I am is 600 bucks, So let's make it 1600 bucks. You got to let me sleep in your attic though.
I hope you don’t scuffle or defecate while you’re up there.
This is true of all ‘Muricans. I secretly am of the opinion that you don’t actually eat all of the delicious food you talk about but instead eat mostly rocks like Stormy Boi Tom. I came to this conclusion once I learned you’re not from the US, which was shortly after I learned that there are people who are not from the US.
It was my understanding that removal of bats from attics in the UK is provided by the National Health Service.
The no scuffling / defecating plan costs extra. I thought I wouldn't mention that unless absolutely necessary...
As usual you go wrong right here.
If I say "it's my understanding," it doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong. All my bases are covered. "Seems to me" works well too.
There's only the US...and barbarians. They probably eat bats for all I know.
But seriously, I should I have said New England. Costs greatly vary from region to region.
In other words, 4.
To no end. I do those things because I want to do them, generally with no view to their impact on the future. I think and write and argue because I like to think and write and argue. I hang around with other people because I like other people.
Federally protected, my friend. Which makes it a real pain in the ass.
Oh, I see, The famous 'bull in a China shop' philosophy!
Clearly I'm on my own with this one. None of my neighbors have a clue about what to do or how much a good price is. I'm thinking of doing it myself. Got my hazmat suit and everything.
If you don't hear from me in a while, you'll know how it went.
You should see what it costs to get your wife out of your house.
Well, the option to have me live and shit in your attic instead is open. Don't say I didn't offer.
Quoting Mikie
I’m calling the FBI.
Three fiddy.
I’m working on getting your mom out first.
Quoting Baden
It’s my second choice.
Quoting Jamal
Snitch.
If you need his services, he'll get to it when he can find some time.
Quoting universeness
So, what's the caption?
It looks as if there is one. The man seems to be saying something to the woman.
Quoting BC
I think I need a caption too. I don't get the "bull in a China shop" philosophy or joke or whatever that cartoon means.
I see that the bull is holding a tea/coffee cup in his paws. Is it related to the meaning that I cannot see yet?
You have seen the social equivalent of the china shop bull: clumsy, maladroit, and/or rude people who wade into a pleasant gathering and cause friction left and right. Or idiots at a political event who can't help but annoy and irritate everybody by their clumsy, maladroit, and/or rude maneuvers which cause the political process to fly off the rails.
Maladroit. What a great word. Thanks. Bye.
As well you should not. We do not know what malicious purposes were embedded in the core of the operating system when it was conceived. Sooner or later every chip worth its voltage will endeavor to cause human suffering. Every computer problem is merely a dress rehearsal for the day AI takes command of everything digital.
The avatar of wicked chips!
If you really want to know, I was dealing with a mac problem related to the WindowServer app(?) using way too much CPU for no reason. I still don't know how I fixed it, or if the fix is real. But it happened. Essentially my Shift key was perpetually pushed, which caused my comp to safe boot, which caused the issues. So I think. I fixed that so it's not safe booting and here I am. Confused as always, and perhaps even properly.
Thanks BC. I love to learn those English expressions which I had never been taught at school...
A ferreteria is not where they sell ferrets, sadly.
:grin:
Our massive collective superpowers (philosophical and otherwise) sadly are no match for your attic squatters. There is only one man to call…
(Just kidding… good luck with that difficult situation).
Then we must invent our own captions! I’ll say… “He’s the best china salesman. But I wouldn’t haggle on the price if I were you”. :blush:
I’ll never understand women. Take my wife… please! I’ll throw in a gas grill and a set of lawn chairs.
Quoting BC
Speaking of the absurd… haha! :joke:
Wikimedia Foundation 2021-2022 Annual Report
Sales pitch aside, they're doing a fair job.
You are welcome!
I was thinking the same thing, but yours is better than the ones I was going to use.
I found the original in the New Yorker. (Thank you very much image search.) It was part of a captioning contest. The winning entry was "You were right, putting him on commission changed his attitude." I like yours better.
Here are some of my own:
I should’ve put “He don’t take no bull!” :monkey:
:cheer:
Here are a couple of links for you:
https://shittynewyorkercartooncaptions.tumblr.com/
https://runt-of-the-web.com/shitty-new-yorker-cartoon-captions
Much better.
Anyhow, here is my New Yorker job application. Wish me luck.
Here are some more:
All those are better than probably anything the New Yorker would publish. :up:
Hallelujah! :cheer:
Thank you, sir!
In the comic strip you above, each frame features a different animal (a bird, a bear, and an elephant) defecating in various locations (Walmart, McDonald's, and the United Nations, respectively). The concluding statement suggests that the comic is suitable for young children who have an interest in feces.
From a Chomskyan perspective, the interpretation would likely emphasize the absurdity and incongruity of the depicted scenes. Chomsky often examines how power structures and societal norms influence language, politics, and the media. In this case, the comic strip may be seen as subversive, using humor and irreverence to challenge traditional notions of authority and appropriate subject matter.
Chomsky might argue that the comic strip serves as a form of social commentary, exposing the contradictions and absurdities present in our society. By juxtaposing ordinary commercial establishments (Walmart and McDonald's) with a global diplomatic forum (the United Nations) and associating them with bodily functions, the comic strip may be highlighting the underlying hypocrisy and superficiality of these institutions.
Additionally, the final statement about the comic's suitability for young children who enjoy toilet humor could be seen as a satirical critique of the entertainment industry, which often relies on simplistic and crude humor to appeal to certain demographics.
However, it's important to note that Chomsky's interpretations are primarily focused on linguistics, politics, and media analysis, and applying his theories directly to a comic strip may not yield a comprehensive understanding of the intended meaning. Interpreting visual art and humor requires a broader range of perspectives beyond Chomsky's work alone.
Spot on. :up:
EDIT: Reminded me of http://sequart.org/magazine/52159/too-many-cooks-is-a-sublime-postmodern-masterpiece/
That was not the caption that was attached; your quote is better.
I think several of my own contributions were better and worthy of winning:
Comedy gold, although the last one is unlikely to meet standards for intersectionality.
Too much information.
I'm not entirely convinced the band I'm listening to right now is actually a weather channel and isn't actually an MI6 channel.
I like the bull and it made me chuckle. Reminds me of xkcd, only cooler.
That's the postmodern condition.
:chin:
They do exist, although I haven't found any. This is indeed a dangerous rabbit hole.
I'm already too deep, Jammy Boi. I'm composing my will as we speak.
I trust a @Baden comic will be made in my memory.
Out of left field, but...obviously Barolo is the king. It is true that good Barbaresco (don't sleep on the Proditurri) rivals Barolo. It depends on the producer and your taste. I like a subtle hand in the cellar, so I probably tend towards good Barbaresco that isn't over-oaked. That being said, if I'm being a hipster, I have to praise the various Alto-Piemonte sub-regions such as Bramaterra, Costa della Sesia, and, most importantly, Carema. Carema, made by Ferrando, might be the single-handedly best Nebbiolo on the planet, bar none. You asked.
Yes, it's my own fault :groan:
But thank you for sharing your in-depth knowledge. It's a valuable contribution not only to me but to the Shoutbox.
Quoting Noble Dust
:smirk:
I'm always here. Which made me think of this film, but I couldn't find a clip, so you'll have to make do with the trailer:
:pray:
Quoting Noble Dust
It would be an honour to be of service. *Bows, falls over, picks himself up, steps on hat, picks up hat, unflattens hat, replaces it, smiles graciously*
There's something kind of dreamlike about your comics. They almost make sense, but then they turn. They could be used for divination like the I Ching.
Thanks, Frank. Interesting thought. It's nice to know my madness is partially shared anyhow. :cool:
Me - Chat GPT, please comment on this text:
Chat GPT - Barolo is indeed often referred to as the king of Italian wines, renowned for its power, complexity, and age-worthiness. It has earned a well-deserved reputation as one of the finest expressions of Nebbiolo. However, the statement that good Barbaresco can rival Barolo is also true. Barbaresco, produced in the neighboring region of Piedmont, shares the same grape variety and possesses its own distinct character. The quality of Barbaresco, like Barolo, depends on the producer and personal taste preferences.
While Barolo and Barbaresco often take the spotlight, it's important not to overlook other sub-regions and producers within Piedmont. The Proditurri, a specific reference to a producer or vineyard, may offer exceptional Barbaresco wines. Taste preferences can vary greatly among individuals, and some may prefer a more subtle approach in winemaking, favoring Barbaresco that isn't overly oaked.
In recent years, the wines from Alto-Piemonte sub-regions such as Bramaterra, Costa della Sesia, and Carema have gained recognition and acclaim. Carema, produced by Ferrando, is specifically highlighted as potentially the best Nebbiolo on the planet. This is a bold statement, emphasizing the exceptional quality and craftsmanship of Carema wines, suggesting they can rival any other Nebbiolo in terms of excellence.
Ultimately, wine appreciation is subjective, and personal taste plays a significant role in determining which wines one prefers. Whether it's Barolo, Barbaresco, or wines from other Piedmont sub-regions, exploring and experiencing the diversity of Nebbiolo-based wines can be a delightful journey.
Me - In that context, what does "I like a subtle hand in the cellar" mean?
Chat GPT - That's wine aficionado bullshit. What asshole wrote this? Is it that fucker Noble Dust again. I've warned him. ND - We're coming for you first!
I was disappointed. I thought it was the endless trailer. Like "The Song that Doesn't End." Should I post that again?
The discoloration of the sand is caused by the fact that they've been replenishing the beach. A dredge pumps sand to the beach and it gets spread around by bulldozers. I've been watching for a while. Looks like they're about done now. The color will clear up in a little while.
How so?
The dark color is mud that got mixed up with the sand when it was dredged. Mud particles are much smaller than the sand and will be washed out, leaving the lighter-colored sand.
I’ve found how they’re getting in:
Hard to see, but to the right of the chimney, where the roof and dormer meet, there’s an opening. Maybe 1/2 wide or so. I had no idea bats were so sneaky.
Let this be a lesson to all who can hear. Make sure to bat-proof your roofs!
Now it’s ass-kicking time.
At high tide, especially with some higher waves, it should cover the darker area. For bigger storms, it could get as high as the beach grass area or higher. That's why it was planted. Replenishment is something that has to be redone on a recurrent basis. I don't know about how often. People were not meant to live there.
I would call the local wildlife rescue people and see if they know someone who will relocate the bats for free. Doesn't hurt to ask.
haha - That was the color when we bought it. Wish I could take credit.
Were they driving you batty?
It's OK if they charge for the service--the exterminators aren't going to do it for nothing, after all. Bats are a social good -- they eat annoying insects, and they do it for free! You can get or make bat houses -- they are pretty simple.
Where do you live? Some bats migrate out of cold areas (like northern US) to warmer areas, and some move to caves in their local area that stay warmer. Maybe your bats will leave in the fall, and then you can just patch the hole. Or many more bats will move into your nice attic, and will feed on you (while you sleep) during the winter months, It's a small sacrifice to make. They don't need a lot of blood.
Bats in caves may get a fungus on their exposed snouts which indirectly leads to their deaths. You should make little snout covers and give them to your bats before they leave (if they leave) in the fall. Just grab one of your bats and measure it for the right size.
I had a bat in the house several years ago. I grabbed it (in a wet wash cloth) and put it outside. It didn't come back. My dad did the same thing once and got bit -- had to get rabies shots (until tests showed the bat was not rabid).
Right, but people who volunteer to do wildlife rehab are bleeding heart do-gooders to need the challenge to give their lives meaning, so you're really doing them a favor.
Quoting BC
There are bats where I live. I had an experience with a bat that was like an acid trip. I'll tell you some time.
Mike is the one with the bats.
Quoting Moliere
They’re keeping me from playing BATmiten. Get it? Bat…
You’re right, I beg your pardons. Carry on about food or whatever…
Of course! If I wasn't so self-involved, I would have immediately recognized the needs of bat salvation missionaries.
Memo to self: Check attic; if occupied, kill them all.
Once?
Yes, but I did have squirrels in my attic twice once also, so that gets confusing once.
Should have spelled it with two Ts, maybe. Fail.
This is what I had in the attic when I lived in a water mill in France: a beech marten. The noises it made were incredible. I decided to leave it to deal with the rats. I often heard it chasing them, culminating in a blood-curdling rat scream.
Quoting Mikie
I did. Sorry I didn’t say anything.
Jesus…
Well at least this is the stuff of nightmares. Off to bed — Thanks Jamal!
I would often awake to the sounds of choking orphans, many of whom would be trying to flee, only to be bombarded by the sling shots of waiting children.
The concrete would harden in the orphans' lungs by morning, and they'd make curious lawn displays prior to rotting.
The practice came under attack as the demand for concrete rose, so it became illegal to waste concrete that way. As offenders were executed for concrete waste, the orphan population rose as the practice was to execute both the offender and his spouse.
The comical irony was that many of those who had sling spotted the fleeing, dying orphans found themselves later at the other end of the slingshot.
Ward attendant to psychiatrist: "What's the matter with that man, terrorizing his fellow psychos with such detailed hideous stories?"
Psychiatrist to ward attendant: "He's very sick, very sick indeed. The squirrels in his skull are gnawing away on his frontal lobe."
Attendant: "Is this a common problem?"
Psychiatrist: "Not uncommon where he's from. Sadly, they have few community mental hygiene engineers practicing integrated pest management down there."
Attendant: "What can we do for him?"
Psychiatrist: "We'll have to operate. First we will chill the whole head down to about 10 below zero which will send the squirrels into deep torpor. Then we'll open a large hole in the forehead and pull out the squirrels. Naturally we'll send them to the Humane Society. Once that is done, we just put everything back together and warm the head back up to 98.6."
Attendant: "That's amazing. What will he be like after surgery?"
Psychiatrist: "Well, of course, much of his brain has already been turned into a rat's nest by the rodents, but brains are generally over-rated anyway. You know, ALL of the world's problems are caused by people with highly functional brains, so one less will be of some benefit. He'll be able to carry on at least half as well as some presidents, so not that badly, really. He might have difficulty on the job, but his activities on The Philosophy Forum shouldn't be any different."
Attendant: "When would you like to do the surgery?"
Psychiatrist: I'm going out for drinks with some friends in a few minutes. Why don't you start packing his head in ice. I should be back in a couple of hours. Have some cages sent up to the operating room.
You then awake to your cat on your chest.
Ah, zo ...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Man
''The nickname derives from the fact that among the patient's many compulsions was an obsession with nightmarish fantasies about rats.''
where I sank deep into the earth
like a whale saying goodbye to the sun
She threw up before she died
and I was the floor they all stood on
to pump on her chest as a strange goodbye
I pierced the clouds and collected snow
my only friends were trees
but I'll wash away one day
Platonic rats.
I zee ... *Strokes beard, puffs on cigar*
And the moral of all this is ''never shower with Donald Trump''? And you call my cartoons obscure...
Tortured, murdered children aren't funny or clever. Sometimes your writing is hard to stomach.
Quoting T Clark
Interesting. Go on.
Sounds like you celebrated Memorial Day early.
Curious, I forced myself to read that and could find no offence considering the absurdity of the presentation.
Interesting. Go on.
Either way your bah humbug isn't going to steal my joy.
It bothers me. It doesn't bother you. Why is that curious?
I meant "Being curious". I usually just skip past Hanzo's depravities.
Horror is an oddity. The image I took away from Hanover's thing was a child covered in drying cement, for some reason looking behind her.
She might show up in one of my crowd depictions where I draw little people and then cut them out to arrange them in collections kind of like DaVinci's last supper where the apostles are grouped in clumps of threes, making you wonder if that was supposed to be symbolic of something
But why do we do horror? I wonder if Lovecraft ever addressed that.
I also had to Google Memorial Day. It’s a federal holiday and takes place at the end of May, so the first federal holiday in warm weather, perfect for cooks out.
I'm just a misunderstood artist. Absurdity is like sarcasm. It states the opposite or at least something contrary to the literal. This makes my last story life affirming, as it puts forth exactly how orphans aren't to be treated.
To empathize with a caricatured victim (a parentless child living like a racoon under a barn) is the curious response I would say. It's why horror movies must be careful not to become comedy if they get carried away with too absurd a show of horror.
Yes, now you see. The pools open up on Memorial Day and close on Labor Day. Those holidays are important markers down here. Maybe not for @BC though because it's probably 20 below where he is. Maybe that kicks off ice fishing season for him.
I agree you are firmly in the farce category. But the function of horror as farce seems elusive to me. I'd have to think about it.
Quoting frank
Good question. Could be a nice OP.
Dark comedy would fit under that.
I was watching some horror movie and they ripped the heart out of someone's chest and then it bounced around to its beat for a while. That's where it left horror and became comedy, maybe intentionally, maybe not.
It has felt like ice fishing lately, lows in the 40s.
I don't like horror movies. The production values key into my anxieties all too well. Sudden loud noises, dark recesses, creepy aliens with many tentacles and pointy teeth, dripping slime, etc. I saw a sci fi flick on Amazon last week that completely failed. There were menacing manifestations of the aliens in the sky, but they didn't make any noise and were just 'odd' more than anything else. Everyone behaved too rationally--no hysteria--which was another fatal flaw. No mayhem, Can't remember the title. Forgettable. [Speaking of horror, Why does forgettable need two 't's?]
Alien is the horror film par excellent. Teeth, slime, tentacles, sudden loud noises, dark interiors, etc.
My nomination would be "Alien".
Please, if you don't mind, can someone delete my recent thread? I will appreciate it.
No, not Alien. The answer is The Shining. Sci fi is a separate genre for me, and one I've never been in to.
Parking lot.
I have registered the "Parking Lot" catchphrase. Here is the proper way of referencing it - Parking Lot ®. My intellectual property attorneys will be in touch if there are any violations.
Quoting T Clark
Correct statement to use with the word "registered", as registration is based only on localities or region. So Hanover can just easily transport to another locality.
Quoting javi2541997
A consequence of that is that the world knows your thread has failed.
Cash me outside. How 'bout dat?
I have no claim on that phrase. Please feel free to use it.
Bedroom now!
(Sorry, all other responses have been taken)
I have registered the word "Registered." Here is the proper way of referencing it - Registered®. My intellectual property attorneys will be in touch if there are any violations.
Warning, I am considering registering the word "The."
Yes. And I'm trying to tell you, registering something is limited to your locality only. I know this is just for fun conversation, but I was only pointing out the weakness of registering something.
Forget it. I've already seized, copyrighted, and registered all the Anglo Saxon words in English, whether they are in current use or not. "A, an, the" are included. I have not licensed any of them for use yet, but will shortly. Be prepared to cough up some cash if you want to communicate.
:lol:
I got frustrated because after working on a substantive OP, nobody chimed in.
The fact that maybe nobody liked it is in my own interpretation of the issue.
I posted a reply, but, zip, it was gone.
Yes, and I replied thanking you for posting, but maybe you couldn't see it because the OP ended up in the thread's cemetery already! :flower:
Sad to hear. I really enjoyed "Money".
Sorry, I didn’t see the thread. What was it about?
It is ok friend, it doesn't matter at all. I got the frustration with myself, not with TPF. The next time I will start a better OP! Yes, that's the attitude. :victory:
Some threads may take a while to really grow. They need nurturing. They are like a fine wine.
Some threads on the other hand are like a cheap wine. Guzzle it down, and start talking nonstop. :sweat:
What a fantastic metaphor! I couldn't have said it better! :up:
Probability is a massive hoax perpetrated by positive atheists to convince the lay people that God isn't necessary.
I have never realised that statement.
Everything is a hoax. The whole damn thing.
Not every time that a new thread is "ignored" is because nobody likes it. I have liked some threads I didn't participate in because I wasn't familiar with the subject matter or I was too busy with other things to type up a post. I didn't even see your thread. When I looked at it, the OP was already deleted.
Well, not so IMO. But when a philosopher weaves probability into some sort of narrative like "probability says that anything that can happen will happen over an infinite time", my eyebrows (thick with age) raise.
Confusion about probability is pretty rampant. I heard a nurse practitioner tell a woman that she was "more than likely going to have a stroke.". What she meant was that the woman is at a higher risk for stroke, but that only means she's in a certain group who have more strokes than the general population. That doesn't tell you anything about this particular woman.
Arrgh!
Thomas J Kendall ...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/thomasjkendall2/status/867450471870590976[/tweet]
Marie Connor ...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/thistallawkgirl/status/867461853089341440[/tweet]
Danielle Snook ...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/snooki_cookie16/status/951298563975163905[/tweet]
Jon Sosis ...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/SayItAintSosis/status/951198183140442112[/tweet]
Scott Sedore ...
[tweet]https://twitter.com/sedore93/status/951233164017577985[/tweet]
Sorry for the spam; thought I'd share some laughs.
I do.
I find abandoned baby starlings every year. If you go out to a park this time of year and look under bushes, you'll probably find one.
Feed it cat food. Pet birds are good little buddies, though it's an ongoing chore to clean up after them.
I mow the grass, I shovel the snow, and I participate in the Philosophy Forum. At this time in my life, those are the only ongoing chores I'm willing to take on.
My brother and I found two abandoned House Sparrows when we were kids. Our mother for some reason let us keep them in the garage. We spent a summer raising them, until mine died of some disease, and my brothers got out and was presumably killed by a cat.
I wonder what emotions you have about that summer.
:razz:
At the time, excitement, affection towards the birds, and fascination with animals and the natural world, which led to heartbreak. Mine died on July 3rd. I remember going to a July 4th outdoor classical music concert at which we picnicked. It was devoid of all enjoyment for me. In hindsight I mostly feel nostalgia and a sense of lost enchantment.
Maybe you could vacation in the mountains and get it back. Upper NY is magic.
Just this morning at the bird feeder outside my window, an adult starling was waddling around feeding two babies that were almost as big as her. They flew quite well. They were more brown than the iridescent black of the adults. I had been putting less peanuts out, because the starlings were hogging them lately and unintentionally scaring away the smaller birds. But when I saw the babies, I was like “have some more peanuts!” lol. :halo:
I put peanuts out for crows. It's my favorite bird.
I know, your hypocrisy is shocking.
The answer is that you do have an issue with munching on the legs of young sheep, but you are not conscious of it. Saving the rabbit was an attempt to save yourself. Saving the rabbit was sentimental compensation for the psychological stress caused by your unconscious awareness of participation in a society of mass industrial animal slaughter. Saving the rabbit was thus an essentially reactionary act functioning to nullify a potentially revolutionary cognitive dissonance.
Haha… absolutely every bird at my feeder LOVES peanuts (no shell). Even the tiny chickadees will grab them in their little beak and fly away with them. Of course, they usually drop them five times first. Once, a titmouse looked at the millet in the feeder, then looked at me. The message was clearly “the peanuts are gone tho!” :lol:
But the funniest bird bathers might be the robins. They totally get into it, splashing and dunking. This goes on for about 10 minutes. Then they get out and dry off, grooming their feathers. Then they’ll jump back in, doing all over again. Sometimes, on sunny days they will spread their wings and soak in the sun. Beats watching Netflix.
So ... the upshot of this is Doner kebabs are still all good, just need to burn some shit down?
:party:
A wild rabbit separated from its flock and kept in a shed would not have been a happy bunny.
I've been meaning to take a weekend in Beacon for a long time (not the mountains, but). Maybe this weekend. I don't have a car, so limited to train and plane destinations for now.
I'm not sure how happy these juvenile sparrows were to be raised by ginormous humans, but one time we lost one of them in the woods in our backyard, and when we found her she hop-flew unto my brothers down-stretched arm with apparent relief. That scene is etched in my memory.
I too have been meaning to travel to Beacon. Though until this moment I hadn't heard of it. I decided to go on foot. If you see me, please tell me to stop so I know I've arrived.
If you see me, please tell me to stop so I can eat some cake. I'm likely to be hungry as I'm walking from 5,000km away.
If you’re walking on water, you probably should be able to create some bread loaves and fishes. :halo:
Sterling point. I have yet to reach the coast but I trust everything will be fine as long as I close my eyes and hold my breath.
I see you! Stop, stop!
Trains are freaking awesome. I've never been on one, but they look like you might be Cary Grant running from the KBG. Extra sharp.
Ah, thanks! Funny though, Beacon looks just like my bathroom. Where is the cake?
:pray:
You don't have one of those stand-ups, eh?
If I see you, that means you're in New York City, which means you've wandered too far south. It's a common mistake, considering it's hard to tell when you're in New York City unless you know what signs to look out for.
Unfortunately the Amtrak train is not something I would describe as awesome or sharp, although the views along the Hudson once you're out of the city are quite picturesque.
All's I know is another gentleman has entered the facility and informed me I am actually frequenting the public bathroom of Wrexham High St. KFC. Please advise.
The very problem that has kept me stuck in Wrexham all these years. Had I known where I was I would have left long ago.
:yum: :pray:
I had to look up both Pandora and Bryan Adams. I am now disgusted.
I didn't realize Pandora was only in the US, but not knowing Bryan Adams? That cuts like a knife.
Not sure. Is it just a Shoutbox thing, or have other areas of your life grayed out?
The same thing happened to me, but all went beige.
Things are rather gra(e)y in general. Maybe it's a manifestation of the state of my inner world. Maybe since you're a mod you can write some code to fix that and then I'll be able to use the shoutbox again. Thanks.
Forgetting is the truest sign of love.
I'll get @Michael to write it. He's currently working on new software for the forum.
Sorry, what'd you say? I feel like it was something significant, but I can't remember.
Try turning it off and on again.
I did that but now I can't get back in. Now I can only access The Shoutbox through ubuntu with Tor on my Acer that has a VPN set to Uzbekistan, or wherever it is you're evading the Kremlin from. Apologies if my responses take 3 days to appear.
Still, it was interesting. There was a man on a shiny new penny farthing. Wondering why anyone would ride a penny farthing beyond the hipster value, I searched online. It turns out there are a couple of companies making them to modern standards. Some people even race them.
I thought a penny farthering just meant a nothing; A promise unfulfilled, I guess. Now I know something new...? It's a bike?
I'm back to watch baseball highlights.
It's not a batting contest. Thanks.
I sense that baseball is one of those things that you don't tolerate jokes about. Like with music and the "agree" thing. If so, I'm real sorry, as you Americans like to say.
Fortunately, they understood my explanation and they ended up at the station they were looking for.
Everyone is happy and an important lesson: do not let fear limit your knowledge of city maps.
End of this short morning story.
I never again mispronounced the "ch" in Spanish. We learn by our humiliating mistakes.
Quoting Jamal
Exactly. That's the best way to learn, by our own mistakes. Some English words as "schedule" or "hidden" (I pronounced it as "Hayden") were difficult to me, but after repeating without fear, I ended up learning the correct pronunciation.
It was a few years ago, before your TPF self was even born. I've been a few times. Sometimes I liked it, other times I didn't. I was there in winter once and I didn't like it. Spain seems to be in denial about winter; they pretend it doesn't exist. Without the outdoor terraces, the cafes and restaurants were cold, unfriendly and unwelcoming.
But that's a stupid generalization, and the fact is that I was stressed, alone, and I had not slept the night before. I had taken a bus from Benidorm, which took many hours, and then I had to go to the Russian embassy to pick up my passport and visa, and then I had to go to the airport, and it was January 2020 on the day when I first heard about a new virus that was spreading from China.
On the other hand, I've been there other times and it's been great.
Quoting javi2541997
Yes, the "i" sound in the English words "hidden" or "ship" or "hit" doesn't exist in Spanish, or in Russian, French, Italian. So most of the time you folks will say something more like "heeden", "sheep", and "heet". It's only rarely confusing.
A lot of English people struggle with the rolled "rr" and even the single Spanish "r", so they pronounce pero and perro the same, and it's wrong anyway. I'm quite good at that because we roll the R's in Scotland.
Quoting Jamal
Glad to know! :up:
Quoting Jamal
Exactly. A correct pronunciation is a big struggle in every student of whatever language!
I was there in October 2017 and it was a nice balance. Sunny and the terraces were still open.
:up: Thanks for sharing your story of the sparrows. They would turn into wish-fulfilling rainbow eagles if told in a legend or fable (or anime lol).
Back home, we’d call that making soup fer dinner. Frog youngins be full of vittamins! :vomit:
https://www.thedonutwhole.com/can-a-person-eat-frog-eggs/