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The Shoutbox

Jamal October 22, 2015 at 16:27 126825 views 61561 comments
This could function as a shoutbox I reckon.

Comments (61561)

Hanover November 21, 2021 at 17:07 #622712
Reply to jamalrob Sounds cool. Nerve heard of that. I'll send a pic of my attempt.
unenlightened November 21, 2021 at 17:22 #622718
Quoting frank
It's all either love or violence with you?


Its all either loveless or unreal with you?

Let me amplify a little. Patriarchy is predicated on the control of women's sexuality; for example, a man is only financially liable for children that are "his", and "his" children inherit. A matrilineal society does not require this control, because there is never any question which womb a child came from. This does not mean there is no violence in a matrilineal society, but it means that the necessity for violence is not built in. Instead, the sibling relationship is strengthened, because a man's children are his sister's children, not those of the woman he has a sexual relationship with. This changes the value of sexual relationships both personally and socially.

I think the result would be a less coercive and more cooperative society. Note that positions of power and anti-social behaviour are both skewed heavily towards the male in this society. The hypothesis is that matrilineal institutions would redress the balance, and result in less violence.
T Clark November 21, 2021 at 17:38 #622726
Quoting Hanover
Anyone know a good chicken stew recipe?


You already desecrated one recipe I sent you. Why would I send you another?
frank November 21, 2021 at 17:59 #622731
Quoting Hanover
Anyone know a good chicken stew recipe?


Buy a Jewish cookbook. They specialize in chicken soup.
god must be atheist November 21, 2021 at 18:03 #622734
Quoting Hanover
Anyone know a good chicken stew recipe?


Take a medium sized chicken. Tease it and jostle it, until it boils with anger. Take the flaming down, and let the emotions simmer, until it has stewed enough in resentment. Serve it with satisfaction, by apologizing to it.
john27 November 21, 2021 at 18:04 #622735
I just rode a rollercoaster today. If it taught me anything, it's that questioning whether 4gs of force on my body is real, doesn't really matter at the end of it. It still feels like I'm going to pass out in two seconds.
Hanover November 21, 2021 at 21:25 #622808
Quoting T Clark
You already desecrated one recipe I sent you. Why would I send you another?


Wow, my insolence really has come back and bitten me on the ass in a bad way. All I can say is that you're right to be this way, and I can just hope you see it in your heart to share with me your recipe so that I'm not stuck eating the cider and mustard soaked shit I've been recommended.
Hanover November 21, 2021 at 21:36 #622813
Quoting god must be atheist
Take a medium sized chicken. Tease it and jostle it, until it boils with anger. Take the flaming down, and let the emotions simmer, until it has stewed enough in resentment. Serve it with satisfaction, by apologizing to it.


Thank you for this. I will send pics.
BC November 21, 2021 at 22:46 #622831
Reply to john27 People appear to find riding on rollercoasters pleasurable, but that hasn't been my experience.
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 03:36 #622880
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 04:57 #622899
Reply to T Clark @Bitter Crank do you think the incident in Waukesha was related to the Rittenhouse verdict?
T Clark November 22, 2021 at 04:59 #622902
Quoting The Opposite
do you think the incident in Waukesha was related to the Rittenhouse verdict?


I have no idea.
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 05:01 #622904
Reply to T Clark I'm predicting it is, and that if justice had actually been served, this wouldn't have happened. Will find out soon I guess...

[tweet]https://twitter.com/StephenKing/status/1461781415318769668?t=HKk5y2UdNO_VUiyfzxMGhQ&s=19[/tweet]

Although I've just heard reports the suspect was fleeing another [crime] scene, so maybe I'm jumping to conclusions. However, it is strange that this incident happened in the same area, not long after the Rittenhouse verdict...

BC November 22, 2021 at 07:39 #622935
Quoting The Opposite
do you think the incident in Waukesha was related to the Rittenhouse verdict?


It would be easier to suppose that the driver in today's event was connected to the Rittenhouse verdict if it had happened in Kenosha and not Waukesha, but it wouldn't rule it out, either.

With the minimal amount of information available (several hours after the event happened) it is impossible to know. It could be an act of terrorism, maybe criminal negligence, manslaughter, vengeance.... However, the Rittenhouse case was in Kenosha, the bad news today took pace in Waukesha. The two cities are about 30 miles apart. Kenosha, south of Milwaukee, is classed as part of the Chicago metropolitan area. Waukesha is on the west side of the Milwaukee metropolitan aea.

My off-the-cuff uninformed guess is that the two incidents were not related.
god must be atheist November 22, 2021 at 12:22 #622949
Quoting The Opposite
do you think the incident in Waukesha was related to the Rittenhouse verdict?


Yes, definitely. They absolutely and without any doubt must be related.

You must consider the following when examining the facts: I have not listened to the news, I don't know what the Waukesha event was, I did not watch the charges, the trial, and the verdict for the Rittenhouse incident, I don't know what Rittenhouse did or did not, I don't know the map, demographics and racial distribution of people in Michigan, and there are tons of other information I don't know.
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 14:38 #622962
Quoting Bitter Crank
The two cities are about 30 miles apart.


30 miles is a stone's throw in terms of the US...
Jamal November 22, 2021 at 14:44 #622963
Quoting Hanover
I can just hope you see it in your heart to share with me your recipe so that I'm not stuck eating the cider and mustard soaked shit I've been recommended


Throw in some maple syrup, chocolate chips, and maybe some biscuits and gravy. You'll love it.
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 15:10 #622966
Quoting god must be atheist
I don't know the map, demographics and racial distribution of people in Michigan


It all happened in Wisconsin, not Michigan.
frank November 22, 2021 at 16:51 #622983
Reply to The Opposite

Dark grey, cream, and nautical blue.
Changeling November 22, 2021 at 17:10 #622992
Reply to frank don't forget taupe.
unenlightened November 22, 2021 at 17:12 #622994
Hmm. This fell into my unreality - How does that evidence thing work?

Inadmissible evidence:
1. Video of Rittenhouse punching a girl half his size.
2. Video of Rittenhouse saying he wished he had his AR-15 so he could shoot suspected shoplifters.
3. Video of Rittenhouse displaying a White Power symbol and singing a Proud Boys anthem in public.
Admissible evidence:
1. One of his victims' mental health records.
john27 November 22, 2021 at 17:47 #623006
T Clark November 22, 2021 at 17:58 #623016
Quoting The Opposite
It all happened in Wisconsin, not Michigan.


Michigan, Wisconsin. They are just different names for the same place. Micheganders can't tell the difference. Neither can Wisconsinatarians.
frank November 22, 2021 at 18:08 #623018
Quoting The Opposite
don't forget taupe.


oh yeah. and ecru
BC November 22, 2021 at 18:50 #623027
Quoting The Opposite
30 miles is a stone's throw in terms of the US...


Quite true, but it isn't the distance, per se, that makes me think they are not related. Guns, not SUVs, are overwhelmingly the preferred weapon for killing in the US. Had someone fired bullets into the crowd, it would seem much more like a response to the Kenosha verdict.

The Waukesha police are holding a press conference in about 10 minutes; that may clarify the question as to motive.
BC November 22, 2021 at 18:52 #623028
Reply to frank Puce. The color was/is descriptive of fleas. Don't have fleas myself, so can't say whether that's true or not.
frank November 22, 2021 at 19:25 #623037
Reply to Bitter Crank
Or oxblood. Never seen a real ox, much less its blood.
jorndoe November 22, 2021 at 20:02 #623062
:chin:

User image

BC November 22, 2021 at 20:16 #623067
Quoting frank
Or oxblood. Never seen a real ox, much less its blood.


Oxblood is a nice color; it looks very much like your blood, assuming you are not a blue blood. The red matter oozing out of a burger might be ox blood. As for seeing oxen, you probably have. An ox is a trained steer, and you have most likely seen steers grazing in pastures green beside still waters. Oxen are good traction animals. A boiled ox makes a lot of broth, brother.
BC November 22, 2021 at 20:45 #623084
Reply to jorndoe As fate will have it, Sisyphus will end up rolling his rock through the halls of the Hilbert, cracking posts, crashing joists, and shattering walls. An infinite number of hotel guests will be run down by the unresting rock.
frank November 22, 2021 at 21:07 #623096
Reply to Bitter Crank

Aha!

See a life-sized animal! Search "Ox" on Google and tap "View in 3D."

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Ox
T Clark November 22, 2021 at 21:19 #623108
Reply to jorndoe

I'm with @Bitter Crank. There appear to be four people on the ship, while there are an infinite number in the hotel. It's clear that killing four people is better than killing an infinite number. Divert to the ship.
god must be atheist November 22, 2021 at 23:23 #623169
Quoting T Clark
It's clear that killing four people is better than killing an infinite number. Divert to the ship.
Not if you and I are on the ship. Plus, an infinite number of people are detrimental to the environment. Even if they don't get killed, they will die in record time.

I hope the other two or three people on the ship are sexually compatible with me. Then we can repopulate the earth. Whether that's morally good or bad, depends if I and the sexually compatible people on the ship can get married before God or not. Otherwise the entire exercise is meaningless.
T Clark November 22, 2021 at 23:35 #623177
Quoting god must be atheist
an infinite number of people are detrimental to the environment.


If there is a hotel that will accommodate an infinite number of people then there is no longer an environment to protect.



god must be atheist November 22, 2021 at 23:44 #623184
Quoting T Clark
If there is a hotel that will accommodate an infinite number of people then there is no longer an environment to protect.

That's right. So destroying the infinite number of people will restore the meaning of protecting the environment. There will be something to protect. With those things around, there will be nothing to protect, you're right.

There is a slight chance that the infinite number of people had not destroyed the environment when they moved into the hotel. If they survive, they do guarantee the end of the livable biosphere for humans, if there is any in the first place on their first check-in date.

Aside from that, they may be inhabiting a fundamentally different planet from Earth. Which, in turn, throws a brand-new monkey wrench on the situation.
T Clark November 22, 2021 at 23:47 #623187
Quoting god must be atheist
That's right. So destroying the infinite number of people will restore the meaning of protecting the environment. There will be something to protect. With those things around, there will be nothing to protect, you're right.

There is a slight chance that the infinite number of people had not destroyed the environment when they moved into the hotel. If they survive, they do guarantee the end of the livable biosphere for humans, if there is any in the first place on their first check-in date.

Aside from that, they may be inhabiting a fundamentally different planet from Earth. Which, in turn, throws a brand-new monkey wrench on the situation.


Now this is what I really call philosophy!!
god must be atheist November 22, 2021 at 23:49 #623189
Reply to T Clark Thanks!!! It takes one to know one.
john27 November 23, 2021 at 00:25 #623198
Is the shout box used to vent? Like if I have something I need to "shout", do I say that here?

BC November 23, 2021 at 00:28 #623200
Reply to john27 In the Shout Box you can whine, shout, mutter, bitch, carp, and more!

And welcome to The Philosophy Forum. If you are here long enough, you will find reasons to natter, bitch, carp, whine, shout, bleat, blatt, mutter... You might have something extremely positive to say here.
BC November 23, 2021 at 00:40 #623202
Quoting god must be atheist
There is a slight chance that the infinite number of people had not destroyed the environment when they moved into the hotel.


A hotel capable of containing an infinite number of guests would consume the universe, never mind the local environment. Unless, of course, the hotel had a dispensation (apply to the Department of the Interior) to hold an infinite number of guests in a finite space -- no larger than the average Hilton.

Can an infinite number of anything -- say up-quarks -- be contained in a finite container? I would think not.
john27 November 23, 2021 at 00:56 #623206
Quoting Bitter Crank
?john27 In the Shout Box you can whine, shout, mutter, bitch, carp, and more!


Well then, don't mind if I do:

I don't know why I am here to be honest. Here, in the philosophy forum. To be quite frank, I actually dislike philosophy quite a bit; the amount of hysterical situations I have been put through stemming from my inability to keep quiet about stupid, stupid, stupid thoughts is honestly staggering. I wish I wasn't compelled to ask my friends each time about things they have zero interest in. I wish that if I were to watch the Truman show with my brother and my mom, that after we wouldn't have to start yelling at each other like madmen in three hours just because I decided to have a "little" conversation. It feels like my body compels me to ask dumb ass questions everyday, and I can't help it. I'm not even good at philosophy! I have never fully read a philosophy book in my life. I don't have the mental discipline to educate myself on whats already been said, and can't be bothered too. I'm just to lazy. Im forever mediocre, and yet I can't resist the bubbling feeling in my gut that says if I don't ask that question, I'm going to explode.

Maybe I'm mental. I don't know.

I don't know if that was good for me or not, but I feel better.
god must be atheist November 23, 2021 at 02:41 #623233
Quoting Bitter Crank
Can an infinite number of anything -- say up-quarks -- be contained in a finite container? I would think not.


You're absolutely right. An infinite number of something not infinitely diminishing in size, is going to NOT fit in a finite-sized container. But even an infinite number of elephants can fit in a smaller space than the entire universe. For instance, the elephants can be lined up head-to-tail in a straight line. That line could be infinitely long, with an infinitely large number of elephants.

Now supplant "elephants" with "people", supplant the line with a line of hotels, or chain of hotels, like Hilton, and bang, Bob is your uncle.
god must be atheist November 23, 2021 at 02:49 #623234
Quoting john27
It feels like my body compels me to ask dumb ass questions everyday, and I can't help it.


Obviously, you have to rely on a different part of your body to make up questions. I usually just go where my nose points. **

** Evolution very smartly made men's noses point toward the same direction where their compass points, This way we can mask our hidden agendas.
BC November 23, 2021 at 04:10 #623254
Quoting john27
I don't know why I am here to be honest. Here, in the philosophy forum. To be quite frank, I actually dislike philosophy quite a bit


I would say the forum is a warm place to sit. But... since this is all virtual, it's no nicer than wherever you are.

Perhaps you could provide a sample of your stupid stupid stupid thoughts. They may be stupid, or not. I take it you are a young man, so your friends are like as not also young. Young people are usually kind of wrapped up in their own stuff (which is normal) and so your seeming irrelevant off the wall questions annoy them. Maybe.

Actually, I find a lot of philosophy to be pretty tedious. There are many threads here to which I have nothing to contribute. There is a huge literature of philosophy on one hand (which is where many people focus) and there is the practice of philosophizing on another hand. Bits and pieces are pure gold, and there are also piles of ashes.

The Forum is a serious project, however, so outside of the shout box one should do the best one can.
john27 November 23, 2021 at 15:06 #623323
Quoting Bitter Crank
Perhaps you could provide a sample of your stupid stupid stupid thoughts. They may be stupid, or not.


I think some of my more memorable ones is asking why [I]etre[/i](to be) is a verb(an action) in French class, saying that I believed pedophiles could be considered courageous in a 6 hour long car ride, saying that world peace can only be attained through the total eradication of tradition in another long car ride, and after watching the Truman show asking my family the question, "would you leave?" and deeming them inhumane because they didn't account for the full scope of life...

I'm sure theres more, but these are the ones I remember pretty clearly.
john27 November 23, 2021 at 15:08 #623324
Quoting god must be atheist
Obviously, you have to rely on a different part of your body to make up questions. I usually just go where my nose points. **


Unfortunately, I don't think I have a choice in the matter.
god must be atheist November 23, 2021 at 15:40 #623331
Reply to john27 It's a matter of choice whether you have a choice in the matter. If you have no choice in choosing the matter of your choice, then try picking up a different approach. Like this old soul told me once, "Life is not to be lived, but to be experienced. Don't travel and seek far-away places in search of happiness or love. All is at our fingertips, now with the advent of the Internet, and in the recent past, in reading books, and listening to music on equipment that electronically reproduces sound.

Most of all, don't question anything. If you do, they will turn on you. Have I ever told you how I lost my left leg in Africa, on the shores of the Upper Nile, where I set out to posit questions to crocodiles and hippopotamuses? Don't ever question, only listen, if you have questions. Truth will out. Nobody can keep information in. The answers will come to you at last, when all is one and one is all. To be a rock, and not to roll."

By the way, this was not philosophy either. It was just an advice saying that if you have only questions that are unwise to ask, then wait until your curiosity gets satisfied by the person volunteering the answers without prodding. Like this here, my advice here. You never asked for it, and yet here it is.
john27 November 23, 2021 at 15:47 #623332
Reply to god must be atheist

You are right. I just hope I can hold out until then.
god must be atheist November 23, 2021 at 16:00 #623336
Quoting john27
You are right. I just hope I can hold out until then.


Good luck to you. I usually tie the waiting period for an answer to a superstitiously decided outside event that has no causal relationship to getting the answer. Like I hold my water, or count backward by one down to zero from two million. This works for instance when you wait for your city bus to turn the corner and finally come to the stop you're waiting at. If you need to know the meaning of life, for instance, then you need to start the countdown from a larger number than two million.

Changeling November 23, 2021 at 16:14 #623343
Reply to god must be atheist unless he's in a foxhole.
Valentinus November 23, 2021 at 23:03 #623481
Quoting Bitter Crank
The Forum is a serious project, however, so outside of the shout box one should do the best one can.


It is serious and there is little of its kind to be found elsewhere.

Very little. I am reconsidering my decision to call the whole thing off.
BC November 23, 2021 at 23:33 #623488
Quoting john27
I think some of my more memorable ones is asking why etre(to be) is a verb(an action) in French class, saying that I believed pedophiles could be considered courageous in a 6 hour long car ride, saying that world peace can only be attained through the total eradication of tradition in another long car ride, and after watching the Truman show asking my family the question, "would you leave?" and deeming them inhumane because they didn't account for the full scope of life...


Of course pedophiles could be courageous. Sexual object choice has nothing to do with courage. HOWEVER: Bringing up anything about pedophiles is a risky conversational gambit, because pedophilia is such a psychologically charged issue. Long car rides and holiday meals are two settings where one should stick to pleasant neutral topics. Not that I followed this advice when I was younger.

Why should one stick to pleasant neutral topics? Because on long car rides and at holiday meals you and others cannot make a quick strategic withdrawal. The inflammatory topic, once brought up, sits there and sizzles.

"Etre as action verb" wouldn't be worth a major upheaval, I wouldn't think... The way some people exist in the world "to be" doesn't involve much action. For others, just being in the world is like a cyclone. Most of us are in-between.

It's possible that you like to arouse people, get them stirred up, play a game of uproar. Carefully timed remarks can start brawls. I have been accused of starting fights, and then sitting back and watching. WHAT! ME? Yes, me. Fact is, I have always enjoying stirring people up. Is that bad? Well, it can make one unwelcome, even among one's loving relatives. Rattling people's cages just to have them snarl at each other can be amusing, but it is unwise--if one wants to be invited back in the future. Or, another possibility, they get wise and gang up on you.
god must be atheist November 24, 2021 at 02:18 #623536
Reply to The Opposite The fox being a foxy lady? I wish.
Changeling November 24, 2021 at 03:18 #623544
Reply to god must be atheist you want to see God inside a foxy lady's hole?
BC November 24, 2021 at 04:08 #623548
Reply to The Opposite If God is omnipresent, that means... yes, in a fox's hole, lady fox or gentleman fox -- and all other holes, as well.
Changeling November 24, 2021 at 06:28 #623571
Reply to Bitter Crank what about black holes?
BC November 24, 2021 at 07:36 #623577
Reply to The Opposite I suppose for an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent being, black holes are nothing special. Just one more wrinkle in time.
T Clark November 24, 2021 at 17:49 #623672
Quoting Bitter Crank
I suppose for an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent being, black holes are nothing special. Just one more wrinkle in time.


No, no. This is where you're supposed to make a reference that, from anyone else, would be considered racially insensitive, but, since you are an old coot, everyone laughs and shakes their head. It is one of the primary benefits of being old.
Outlander November 24, 2021 at 20:58 #623754
Anyone here long enough to give a rundown of the "history" of this site and the presumably other site as alluded to under the "blog" link on the header or is that simply forbidden knowledge, esoteric in nature for the "in crowd" alone?
BC November 24, 2021 at 21:02 #623755
Reply to T Clark Like, black holes no matter?
BC November 24, 2021 at 21:19 #623760
Reply to Outlander Once upon a time there was Philosophy Forum, owned by Paul. It lasted for about 10 years. It was a healthy forum (active, orderly). Paul decided to sell the site; either he found a buyer or a buyer found him -- I don't know. I also don't know why anybody would buy a philosophy site--the profit potential just doesn't seem worth the lost opportunity costs. Anyway, it was sold.

My memory of the post-sale forum is kind of fuzzy, but things didn't go well and the forum fizzled. (This took time; it wasn't instant.).

Eventually it became apparent that the forum site was sick, dying, and then dead. Dead as a doornail, to quote Charles Dickens, dead as Jacob Marley.

A small group of participants in Philosophy Forum (the old one) decided to start a replacement. This was done, named THE Philosophy Forum. It was intended to be like the old forum in its healthy incarnation, and this happy state came to pass, and here we are.

People tend to come and go in public fora, whether they be live or virtual. The same was true in the old forum, and is true now.

The experience of THE Philosophy Forum is pretty similar to that of the old forum. Eventually we reached the top of Google's search results for 'philosophy forum'. Not quite as surprising an event as encountering an alien colony on the moon, but worthy, none the less.

There are others here who can provide more detailed information.
T Clark November 24, 2021 at 21:55 #623779
Quoting Bitter Crank
There are others here who can provide more detailed information.


You left out "And they lived happily ever after."
BC November 24, 2021 at 22:12 #623785
Reply to T Clark This fairy tale isn't over yet.
Deleted User November 24, 2021 at 23:12 #623805
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
BC November 25, 2021 at 01:14 #623833
Reply to tim wood Tim, I read history; I think knowing our history is important. Statistics on lynching supply valuable insights. However...

1) Arbery was not "lynched"; he was murdered. George Floyd was not lynched. All lynchings are murders, but not all murders are lynchings.

2) The number of lynchings per year had been decreasing for decades, and by the 1930s the numbers per year were in the single, then low single digits. Fewer lynchings IS progress, but lynchings are still a horrible crime.

3) A better metric for the last 50 years is the rate of violent deaths at the hands of civilians. This metric shows where interpersonal violence is higher now.

Lowest rates of violent death by state 2020

 New Hampshire 12 0.9
 Maine 22 1.6
 Vermont 14 2.2
 Idaho 41 2.2
 Massachusetts 160 2.3
 Hawaii 41 2.9
 Oregon 125 2.9
Rhode Island 32 3
 
Highest rates of violent death by state 2020

Alabama 471 9.6
Tennessee 663 9.6
South Carolina 549 10.5
Mississippi 315 10.6
Arkansas 321 10.6
Missouri 723 11.8
Louisiana 734 15.8
Puerto Rico 529 16.7
DC 201 28.2

Why is the southern group of states so much higher than northern group of states?

According to David Hackett Fischer, among others, the cause is the nature of English immigration in the 17th century. Puritans from the east coast of England settled in New England, and cast a long shadow of Yankee culture across the northern tier of states. The Puritans believed in the role of a strong state to achieve a good society (the city on the hill).

English Cavaliers from southern England settled in the south. Unlike the Puritans, the Cavaliers were against the interfering regulation of the state. Justice could just as well be done on a do-it-yourself basis. They were not particularly cooperative among themselves. They were an "honor" oriented culture where one's personal worth was easily subject to devaluation (insult was readily taken). They tended to be more extreme in their emotional reactions (as opposed to the straitlaced, self-controlled Puritans). The upshot is that Cavaliers were far more likely to take offense and act on it violently. The Cavaliers cast a shadow across the southern tier of states 

It isn't just racism that was at work in the numerous lynchings in the south. It was also the easily offended honor (think "white women") and do-it-yourself justice.

Deleted User November 25, 2021 at 02:05 #623842
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
BC November 25, 2021 at 02:52 #623851
Reply to tim wood Of course lynching could have something to do with honor, but let me clarify. "Honor" here does not mean "high respect; great esteem derived from noble and notable achievements". The 'honor' I am referencing is much more a special right, or impunity, granted or seized, available only to whites, particularly white males, and dominant white males, at that. This version of 'honor' is a personal asset and somewhat fragile -- apparently easily besmirched by insufficient deference.

So, this "honorable" person is a walking, talking hair trigger time bomb, whose anger at being insufficiently deferred to can be set off by a small slight. I'm not quite sure what the problem of the Cavaliers was in England, but in this country, 18th into the 19th century, you have a small group of white people exploiting a larger slave population. The ruling whites were likely hyper alert to signs of insufficient deference, and for good reason.

I readily grant that lynching black people was racist. But a much smaller number of whites were lynched too. They were probably boat-rockers, of some sort. During the 1919 Red Scare (distinct from the race-riot 'Red Summer' of the same year) labor organizers came in for some very harsh treatment, at a time when the ruling class was hyper vigilant about labor organizing, unions, communism, reds, racial liberation, and so on.

A century after the rate of lynching had greatly declined, the "honorable" hair trigger time bombs in the south are still very touchy about their assumed prestige and high status. Worse, their culture has migrated out of the south. Poor urban blacks in the north, often in gangs, exhibit exactly the same kinds of walking time bomb touchiness--within their own group. It's the result of DIY justice, wearing your honor on your sleeve, being easily insulted--and at the same time, not having substantial real prestige and status.
Hanover November 25, 2021 at 03:32 #623862
Quoting Bitter Crank
course lynching could have something to do with honor, but let me clarify. "Honor" here does not mean "high respect; great esteem derived from noble and notable achievements". The 'honor' I am referencing is much more a special right, or impunity, granted or seized, available only to whites, particularly white males, and dominant white males, at that. This version of 'honor' is a personal asset and somewhat fragile -- apparently easily besmirched by insufficient deference.


This is not how I understanf the honor culture to be. My understanding is that it is most prevalent among the Celtic settlers in the US, not of the English, but of the Scots-Irish, having settled in the Southern Appalachian region and maintaining the mores of their isolated lifestyles of their homeland.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_honor_(Southern_United_States)

They were not from English aristocratic stock like the slave plantation owners. They were poor and uneducated, and many still are to this day. Their communities were white, and their feuds were with whites, the most notable being the Hatfields versus the McCoys. Such feuds were common, and they didn't often nvolve blacks.

This is not to say that racism didn't find its way to these regions, but racism isn't part of the honor culture. It's part of the ignorant, isolated culture.

I add the word "isolated" here because education alone isn't the cure for racism. The Nazis were well educated and sophisticated. The cure for racism is exposure to and interaction with the other. As Elie Weisel says, you've got to get to know the other's story.
BC November 25, 2021 at 04:58 #623877
Reply to Hanover Thanks for your input. I've been reading Albion's Seed by David Hackett Fischer. He takes the 4 main groups of English / Scottish: the Puritans, Cavaliers, Scots and Irish, and Quakers, then traces how their native culture in England translated to the colonies. I have not read all that much of this long, many footnoted book. It's quite good.

You might be interested in D. H. Fischer's discussion of how the peculiarities of speech in SW England transplanted to Virginia formed the beginnings of the southern American style of speech. He provides quite a few examples, but from Sussex comes twixt, bandanna, bimebye (by and by) bide (for stay) dis and dat, wud for with, fambly, flapjack, fust, his'n, holp, hotted up, innards, lay off, leastways, such like, mess of greens, moonshine, passell, pekid (sick), skillet, traipse, and unbeknownst.

From Hampshire came chitlins for entrails, no count, dawg (dog), whopper (or whoppah) for anything big. [It's hard to get this stuff down because Spell Check wants to spell everything its own way]

More later.
god must be atheist November 25, 2021 at 04:59 #623878
This gave me a scare.

I put a remark in a thread. Okay, nothing special.

Then five minutes later I put another remark in the same thread.
The computer answered, "your request could not be completed."
I was surprised. Tried it again. No difference in answer.

I tried 24,493 times more again. Same thing, over and over again.
I concluded I broke some rules and was being punished for it severely.

Then I went to the list of topics for discussion, and saw that the thread I was participating had disappeared. It finally dawned on me that I was not the guilty party to blame this time.

It was a stupid thread all right, but that normally is no cause for deletion. After all, if any replies get forthcoming in a thread, at least one person, if not more, think that the thread's original post is stupid. Otherwise it's not discussed. It's not fun in these parts to agree in written form with other posters.
unenlightened November 25, 2021 at 08:39 #623901
Reply to god must be atheist Bin there, done that, had the minor heart attack, and felt almost insulted that it was nothing to do with my pearls of devastating wisdom.
Hanover November 25, 2021 at 11:55 #623914
Reply to Bitter Crank Two great books I read on this: Cracker Culture and White Trash. Cracker Culture describes the Celtuc culture, its roots, and its impact on the south. White Trash is a sociological book on class dynamics, describing early settlement patterns and how that has affected current day class structure.

In the US, we tend to think there are two groups, White and Black, but whites are divided into class as well, with generations in trailer parks and generations in wealth, often traceable to their earliest migration.

ArguingWAristotleTiff November 25, 2021 at 14:41 #623942
Happy Thanksgiving my friends :flower:
If there is one thing I am Thankful for this year is the fact that y'all have been here for me in the worst times in my life.
However, as Frost said "Two roads diverged in a yellow wood...and I chose to take the road less traveled..."
And as Aristotle has taught me "On Anger, to become angry is easy: but to be angry at the right time, at the right person, for the right reason, to the right degree, that is not so easy."
I have passed Aristotle's test in being served divorce papers and still I am Thankful today for the friends and family who have stuck by my side, especially when I was low on grace. Thank you and you really have no idea how much you all mean to me. I love you :heart: and Thank you :flower: :heart: :flower:
frank November 25, 2021 at 15:13 #623952
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

I hope you have a great Thanksgiving!
john27 November 25, 2021 at 15:28 #623958
Reply to Bitter Crank
Good to know I'm not the only one who likes a good fight.
Thanks for writing that. I don't know why, but it made me feel better.


Deleted User November 25, 2021 at 17:42 #623984
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 17:51 #623987
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Happy Thanksgiving. I'm sorry you are having a hard time. I'm glad you can still be thankful.

I have a couple of thoughts about what to be thankful for this year. One, and the biggest, is that my elder son, who was in despair last year, is happy and has found his feet. We are having dinner today with his very serious girlfriend. She is a really neat person. A surgeon who likes oysters, beer, and baseball.

About a week ago, a pack of coyotes woke us all up at about 3 am howling for about 5 minutes. They sounded like they were just across the street at a construction site. Maybe that's no big deal where you are, but in suburban eastern Massachusetts, it was a first for me. Then, last night, they showed up again, thankfully at about 10 pm this time. Whenever I hear them I get such a lift in my spirits. A little wildness here in civilization is something to be thankful for.
Hanover November 25, 2021 at 18:25 #623996
Reply to tim wood I don't believe race based lynchings have anything to do with honor issues. Honor killings arise after insult of integrity, like occurred in Hatsfield versus McCoy.

As I said, slavery existed among the aristocracy, not the poor offspring of indentured servants and past criminals.
baker November 25, 2021 at 18:50 #624005
Quoting Hanover
The cure for racism is exposure to and interaction with the other.


Do list 3 examples where this actually worked.
frank November 25, 2021 at 19:10 #624014
Reply to baker

1. US Military, Korean War
2. Integration of public schools by federal mandate 1970-1985
3. uh, why three?
baker November 25, 2021 at 19:19 #624020
Reply to frank What, you can't list 3 examples of this phenomenon? Then perhaps it is not so widely spread/possible?

In the two you do list: How exactly did that cure the racism?

In those situations, the exposure and interaction between races was mandated by force, not chosen by any of the sides. If the racism declined, how do we know it wasn't simply because the different races were forced to be together, and that the same decline in racism wouldn't occur if there had been an element of choice in the matter?
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 19:47 #624028
Quoting baker
Do list 3 examples where this actually worked.


This is not in relation to racism, but I think it's relevant. The Democrats, Supreme Court, and liberal states got out ahead of gay rights/gay marriage starting about 20 years ago, before the rest of the country was ready for it. Now, there are only one or two states where the majority of people oppose gay marriage. It is a fait accompli. Most people don't want to fight about it any more.
frank November 25, 2021 at 19:51 #624030
Quoting baker
If the racism declined, how do we know it wasn't simply because the different races were forced to be together, and that the same decline in racism wouldn't occur if there had been an element of choice in the matter?


I'm not sure what you're asking. White guys were interviewed after the war and they said fighting side by side with black people made them realize that what they'd been told about blacks wasn't true.
baker November 25, 2021 at 19:52 #624031
Quoting T Clark
Most people don't want to fight about it any more.


So they haven't really accepted gay marriage, they're just fed up with the whole issue?
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 20:13 #624037
Quoting baker
So they haven't really accepted gay marriage, they're just fed up with the whole issue?


How do you think acceptance works? Do you think it has to go from fierce opposition to full acceptance immediately? That's an impossible goal. As they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Or, as I put it, good enough is good enough. Acceptance of gay people has grown throughout my life and it will continue.

Gay marriage will not be a political issue except maybe on a state level. Probably not even that.
baker November 25, 2021 at 20:21 #624041
Quoting frank
I'm not sure what you're asking.


I'm asking about possible explanations for the decline in racism in situations where people of different races are forced to be together. When people are forced to be together, they will cooperate to some extent, but once the external force is removed, they'll go back to their old ways, unless their time together was traumatic or otherwise relevant enough. (In the case fof the US, the external force still applies.)

The salient point is that the deciding factor in (temporarily) changing people's minds is the external force, not knowledge, understanding, compassion, empathy, or sympathy.

White guys were interviewed after the war and they said fighting side by side with black people made them realize that what they'd been told about blacks wasn't true.


Sure. But to how many people does this actually apply, on how many and what issues?

My intuition is that discriminators (racial and others) actually usually have a good knowledge of those they discriminate against and have interacted with them. It's that the reasons for discrimination are developed post hoc and in line with social taboos and the motivations of the discriminator.

For example, there is a hypothesis about the source of antisemitism that says that the real reason for it is that antisemitists can't stand Jewish supremacism (Jews seeing themselves as God's chosen people -- which they do). So they invent various reasons that in their eyes demote Jews from the position of being God's chosen people (but at the same time, those reasons have to be such that they don't apply to the discriminator).


Also, what sometimes appears to be racism (or nationalist discrimination) is actually classism, as it applies in a particular socioeconomic system. If in the same country a particular socioeconomic class consists mostly of people of one race or nationality, and another class of another race or nationality, it's easy to conflate class and race/nationality. This is the situation with black slaves in the US, or in some continental European countries where the elites were of a different nationality than the commoners.
baker November 25, 2021 at 20:22 #624044
Quoting T Clark
How do you think acceptance works? Do you think it has to go from fierce opposition to full acceptance immediately? That's an impossible goal. As they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Or, as I put it, good enough is good enough. Acceptance of gay people has grown throughout my life and it will continue.


What you're describing isn't acceptance (or the path to it), it's more like "putting up with" or being apathetic to the point of seeming accepting.
Cartuna November 25, 2021 at 20:38 #624053
Quoting baker
What you're describing isn't acceptance (or the path to it), it's more like "putting up with" or being apathetic to the point of seeming accepting.


Then what's the difference? That the seeming acceptance can turn into oppression in the right (wrong) circumstances? Who says that true acceptance can't turn into malice? Who says that true acceptance is not seemingly?
BC November 25, 2021 at 20:42 #624056
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Happy Thanksgiving to you, for you, and everyone.

Personal turbulence rips through holidays and ordinary days alike. The storm will pass, not soon enough, and life will go on. Still, we don't forget the good times and the bad times.

No turkey for me, even though I live in a state where the biggest share of the nation's literal turkeys (as opposed to the metaphoric birds) are raised. It always seems like the least interesting meat on offer.

My family isn't having its usual extended get together -- second time in two years--Covid. OK by me. It's cold here today, 22º at 2:30. Tuesday it was 50º at this time. No snow on the ground. Hope it's a nice day in Texas--you're there now?

Take care. Good luck. My best to you.
baker November 25, 2021 at 20:42 #624058
Quoting Cartuna
Then what's the difference?


A genuine change of a person's mind.
Cartuna November 25, 2021 at 21:11 #624067
Quoting baker
A genuine change of a person's mind.


I'm not sure if that's important. It's their actions that count. You can have a non accepting mind and still let gay people live in peace. On the other hand, accepting minds can be annoying as hell. Of course, a non accepting state of mind is needed for oppression in the first place. But then it's the oppressive action that must be shielded, not the state of mind.
baker November 25, 2021 at 21:14 #624068
Quoting Cartuna
A genuine change of a person's mind.
— baker

I'm not sure if that's important. It's their actions that count.


The way one acts depends on one's mind.
Tom Storm November 25, 2021 at 21:17 #624072
Quoting baker
Then what's the difference?
— Cartuna

A genuine change of a person's mind.


I'm not sure what a genuine change of mind really amounts to.

I have some time for Quentin Crisp who knew a thing or two about prejudice and stigma. He was interviewed on a TV show in the 1980's (I think). He said:

"Enlightenment doesn't produce tolerance. Tolerance is the result of boredom. The facts are repeated over and over. It's the test of time. You can't legislate for tolerance. You bore people with the facts and then tolerance sets in."

I don't know if I agree but I have seen it happen. There's something in it.
BC November 25, 2021 at 21:24 #624073
Reply to baker Reply to T Clark I too have seen an extraordinary change in the prevailing image of gay people from that of diseased pariahs to a much, much more positive position. Good! However...

About the same time that the APA decided homosexuals were not sick perverts, SCOTUS decided that women had a right to abortion services. The tide was running strongly towards allowing people to decide for themselves about sexuality and reproduction. Where are we today?

Abortion rights are being rolled back towards the pre-Roe vs. Wade decision (1973). Anti-abortion conservatives haven't quite gotten there, but they are pretty close. Gay rights, gay adoptions, gay marriage--all seem secure. It's always worth remembering that social changes can be undone.

Persistent and consistent social/political action is require to make major changes or to undo them. Are there people who don't accept gay rights? Absolutely, there are. (I have siblings who accept me, but don't accept gay people in general.) The United Methodist Church, for example, will probably break in two over the issue of gay marriage and gay ministers. The Southern Baptists' view of homosexuality is " “In the spirit of Christ, Christians should oppose … all forms of sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality and pornography.” And that's just two Protestant groups -- about 20,000,000 in the US.

I do not believe gay people will face a significant reversal of status in the next 25 years, but beyond that? Who knows how the tide will run 30 years from now? Reversals in major social opinion and practice are possible, and have taken place in the past. They can again.

Eternal vigilance!
Tom Storm November 25, 2021 at 21:26 #624074
Quoting Bitter Crank
I do not believe gay people will face a significant reversal of status in the next 25 years, but beyond that? Who knows how the tide will run 30 years from now? Reversals in major social opinion and practice are possible, and have taken place in the past. They can again.

Eternal vigilance!


No question. Progress exists. So does regress...
Cartuna November 25, 2021 at 21:35 #624076
Quoting baker
The way one acts depends on one's mind.


Or on people preventing you to take action. Or on one's ability not to listen what their minds tell them. You think it's better that all minds should be accepting?
BC November 25, 2021 at 21:40 #624080
Quoting Tom Storm
"Enlightenment doesn't produce tolerance. Tolerance is the result of boredom. The facts are repeated over and over. It's the test of time. You can't legislate for tolerance. You bore people with the facts and then tolerance sets in."

I don't know if I agree but I have seen it happen. There's something in it.


The "existence of change" precedes the "essence of change". Societies change because the minimum necessary number of people change, so the theory goes. An oppressed minority stopped submitting to their oppression in stages; they resisted, persisted, and gained grudging tolerance. Building on grudging tolerance, the minority kept pushing until they gained more formal acceptance.

Boredom and fatigue -- wearing out the opposition. Still, there has to be a fair amount of militant and strategic action to achieve anything.

The anti-abortion (pro-life) movement is a good example. They have been militant, consistent, and persistent for 48 years, since Roe vs. Wade. I disagree with the pro-lifers, but it's indisputable that they have found the strategy that works.
frank November 25, 2021 at 21:43 #624084
Reply to baker

Do you guys still hate Bosnians or whatever? The real cure for racism is genetic mixing.
Tom Storm November 25, 2021 at 21:44 #624085
Quoting Bitter Crank
The anti-abortion (pro-life) movement is a good example. They have been militant, consistent, and persistent for 48 years, since Roe vs. Wade. I disagree with the pro-lifers, but it's indisputable that they have found the strategy that works.


Yes. And then there's the fact that all that fear of God and Jesus worship in the Land of Freedom helps to lubricate the process for them.
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 21:51 #624092
Quoting baker
What you're describing isn't acceptance (or the path to it), it's more like "putting up with" or being apathetic to the point of seeming accepting.


As I said, like it or not, that's how acceptance works. That is exactly the path to it.
baker November 25, 2021 at 21:56 #624096
Quoting frank
Do you guys still hate Bosnians or whatever?


Racist/nationalist classism is alive and well.

The real cure for racism is genetic mixing.


But then we get other problems. And we still have classism. No peace, no peace.
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 21:57 #624098
Quoting Bitter Crank
I do not believe gay people will face a significant reversal of status in the next 25 years, but beyond that? Who knows how the tide will run 30 years from now? Reversals in major social opinion and practice are possible, and have taken place in the past. They can again.


I think that's like saying that discrimination against the Irish will reassert itself. Gay people are openly being woven into the fabric of society. They are parents at PTA meetings. Everyone works with openly gay people. Just about everyone has at least one openly gay person in their family. I don't fault you for being tentative in your judgement, but what is going for you isn't morality, or acceptance, or goodness, or light, it's inertia and entropy.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not wrong.
baker November 25, 2021 at 21:57 #624099
Quoting T Clark
As I said, like it or not, that's how acceptance works. That is exactly the path to it.


Yeah, for zombies.
T Clark November 25, 2021 at 22:00 #624101
Quoting baker
But then we get other problems. And we still have classism. No peace, no peace.


Yes. I think dealing with class conflict is the path to resolution. That's because, at bottom, it's all about security and money.
baker November 25, 2021 at 22:02 #624103
Quoting Cartuna
You think it's better that all minds should be accepting?


Not sure where this is coming from ...


Lasting social change appears to be very difficult to bring about deliberately, but is, rather, a side effect of many/other things.
Cartuna November 25, 2021 at 22:13 #624106
Quoting frank
The real cure for racism is genetic mixing.


Genetic mixing by itself won't do. Genes are situated in bodies and how do you mix them? In my experience blacks still pair up with blacks, yellow with yellow, or rainbows with rainbows. It would be a duller world if all people would have one color. Is the cure for sexual discrimination to genetically mix all sexes? No more gay discrimination, no more discrimination of women. And what about other kinds of discrimination? One great cure to dissolve all differences? One and the same set of genes for everyone?
Baden November 25, 2021 at 22:49 #624123
Quoting T Clark
I think that's like saying that discrimination against the Irish will reassert itself


We live in hope. :pray:
Tom Storm November 25, 2021 at 22:53 #624125

Quoting T Clark
I think that's like saying that discrimination against the Irish will reassert itself. Gay people are openly being woven into the fabric of society. They are parents at PTA meetings. Everyone works with openly gay people. Just about everyone has at least one openly gay person in their family. I don't fault you for being tentative in your judgement, but what is going for you isn't morality, or acceptance, or goodness, or light, it's inertia and entropy.


I don't think there is a prejudice going that can't reemerge if the situation is right. But Christ, I wish you were right.
BC November 25, 2021 at 23:53 #624144
Quoting T Clark
Yes. I think dealing with class conflict is the path to resolution. That's because, at bottom, it's all about security and money.


Quoting baker
Lasting social change appears to be very difficult to bring about deliberately, but is, rather, a side effect of many/other things.


:100: & :up:
Hanover November 26, 2021 at 01:06 #624178
Quoting frank
you guys still hate Bosnians or whatever? The real cure for racism is genetic mixing.


If we're all one race, there can't be racism of course, but the evil is classism, with skin color just being an easy way to classify people as inferior or superior. Racially homogenous societies have their lower classes. The US has its recognized white trash class, who aren't regarded in a very favorable light.
BC November 26, 2021 at 03:01 #624218
Quoting Hanover
but the evil is classism


No war but the class war.

We have done a very good job of convincing ourselves that there is no such thing as class in America. There is, of course, but at least we don't suffer from excessive class consciousness.

The absence of 'class' as a working concept makes it difficult to understand our own history, just as the absence of 'race' as a working concept would make understanding difficult.
Streetlight November 26, 2021 at 10:30 #624280
@Frank - EU drama is more exciting than Game of Thrones: https://newleftreview.org/sidecar/posts/rusty-charley
john27 November 26, 2021 at 13:30 #624329
Reply to Cartuna

a set of genes that are all equally different would work, no?
frank November 26, 2021 at 15:56 #624368
Reply to StreetlightX

Hayek would be proud. His later views on rule of law included deep suspicions about legislation. He wanted to see some sort of high court providing law through an evolution of related decisions. So if the EU just holds the treaties up as the backing for their decisions, they can claim that they aren't in fact a liberal oligarchy.

The fact that the high court is untouchable by any particular nation is in line with his ideas about using federalism as a substitute for monarchy.

It's all the same stuff the US does except the US can't fine a state and they obviously don't do austerity.

Thanks for that window on the EU!
god must be atheist November 27, 2021 at 02:18 #624522
Nirvana is the opposite of Farvana.
baker November 27, 2021 at 19:22 #624720
Quoting Bitter Crank
We have done a very good job of convincing ourselves that there is no such thing as class in America. There is, of course, but at least we don't suffer from excessive class consciousness.


Are you sure? When I watch US films, shows, etc. the characters there usually appear to be conscious of class differences; in fact, class difference is many times a theme.

Although there is a type of Americana films, awfully politicaly correct, where class distinctions conspicuously don't seem to play a part. I generally don't have the stomach for such films, though.
T Clark November 27, 2021 at 19:34 #624723
Reply to baker

Quoting Bitter Crank
We have done a very good job of convincing ourselves that there is no such thing as class in America. There is, of course, but at least we don't suffer from excessive class consciousness.


I think class consciousness is apparent here on the forum. Of course, many participants are from the UK, [irony] so I guess we can blame them.[/irony] Nearly everyone here shows contempt for working class white Americans, especially men.

BC November 27, 2021 at 20:14 #624732
Reply to baker The upper class of the US, the richest 10%, has class consciousness. The 90% who have scarcely a pot to piss in think they are middle class. "Middle class status" is almost entirely aspirational, and not fait accompli.

The majority working class (to use the proper technical term) dream of upward mobility and fear downward mobility. Practically the entire working class (90% of working people) have experienced a wholesale decline in prosperity over the last 40 years -- caused by stagnant wages and inflation. The decline is cumulative quite large.

It is just plain propaganda that the American people are better off now than we were 40 or 50 years ago. We are not. All sorts of metrics have seen decline: household wealth (assets minus debt), longevity, health status, height, obesity (that metric is increasing), and so on. "Deaths of despair" was not a thing in the 1960s. It is now.

Hanover November 27, 2021 at 21:58 #624775
Quoting T Clark
Nearly everyone here shows contempt for working class white Americans, especially men.


This is probably just a delusion of persecution because you must fancy yourself a working class stiff.

T Clark November 27, 2021 at 23:02 #624818
Quoting Hanover
This is probably just a delusion of persecution because you must fancy yourself a working class stiff.


Even back when I worked with my hands for a living, I wasn't working class. My wife was a nurse and we had family we could get financial help from to buy a house. After I got my engineering degree, at the peak of our careers when we were both working, we made a bit under $200K, had paid off our mortgage, and had enough saved to finance our retirement.
Hanover November 27, 2021 at 23:30 #624835
Quoting T Clark
After I got my engineering degree, at the peak of our careers when we were both working, we made a bit under $200K, had paid off our mortgage, and had enough saved to finance our retirement.


You're a blue blood then, your highness.
T Clark November 27, 2021 at 23:40 #624839
Quoting Hanover
You're a blue blood then, your highness.


And yet we live a modest, humble life. Turkeys and a gold Sovereign to the servants and tenants on Christmas. We dispensed with droit de seigneur decades ago.
Cartuna November 28, 2021 at 00:31 #624862
Quoting Bitter Crank
Deaths of despair" was not a thing in the 1960s. It is now.


It has even been conjectured that depression will be health hazzard nr. 1. The US is the most depressed country. Despite being the haven of freedom and material prosperity.
Ying November 28, 2021 at 04:46 #624933
Quoting Cartuna
It has even been conjectured that depression will be health hazzard nr. 1. The US is the most depressed country. Despite being the haven of freedom and material prosperity.


YESSSSSSS DEPRESSION LETSGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO :party: :party: :party:

(Disclaimer: I'm fine. This is a joke)
jorndoe November 28, 2021 at 05:49 #624939
Quick read:

Evolution tells us we might be the only intelligent life in the universe (Oct 18, 2019)

More things:

There is a chance that life emerged more than once in some sense, or perhaps some important pretexts to life as we know it, but was drowned out by existing life. Speculation of course, and would be difficult to find evidence of.

Convergence suggests higher probability, one-time events lower. That being said, we still just have the one sample, our own history, Earth. Photosynthesis, for example, is required for life on Earth, but could something else come about, something we'd still consider life? Being open-ended makes for a hard assessment.

Life as we know it emerging elsewhere, more or less the same as here, also seems implausible. It's all we have to go by, though.

Cartuna November 28, 2021 at 09:08 #624962
Quoting jorndoe
Life as we know it emerging elsewhere, more or less the same as here, also seems implausible. It's all we have to go by, though.


On the contrary! It seems plausible that the same conditions as around our sun prevail around the majority of stars. Life is bound to evolve around most stars. Maybe people there have six or seven fingers, or right handed bodies.
god must be atheist November 28, 2021 at 13:51 #624993
Reply to Cartuna I think they have six. Six fingers on each hand. I could be wrong.
god must be atheist November 28, 2021 at 13:59 #624995
Quoting baker
We have done a very good job of convincing ourselves that there is no such thing as class in America. There is, of course, but at least we don't suffer from excessive class consciousness.
— Bitter Crank

Are you sure? When I watch US films, shows, etc. the characters there usually appear to be conscious of class differences; in fact, class difference is many times a theme.


I am only familiar with the ye olde classe distinction that pevailed in Europe before wwii. Americans have class distinictions, but it's financial and careerist. And sadly, racist and sexist. But in America, at least theoretically, you can cross financial and careerist class boundaries if you are lucky or unlucky. In ye olde Europe, the class boundaries were set, and you could not cross them upwards even if you stood on the top of your head. You were born a prince, a baron, a duke, a vizeer, and that was that. You were either born that way, or never became one.
god must be atheist November 28, 2021 at 14:02 #624998
Quoting jorndoe
Evolution tells us we might be the only intelligent life in the universe (Oct 18, 2019)


My evolution is different from your evolution, then. At least in theory.

The only things that tell us that there could be no life on other parts of the Universe are religions. The more fundamental, the more adamantly denying the possibility.
jorndoe November 28, 2021 at 15:31 #625026
Quoting Cartuna
On the contrary! It seems plausible that the same conditions as around our sun prevail around the majority of stars. Life is bound to evolve around most stars. Maybe people there have six or seven fingers, or right handed bodies.


Right, energy input is needed for something to do things, riding sunlight seems the most commonly available. Other than that, I was thinking of a range of life that could include something substantially different (perhaps not carbon-based). Maybe there are more kinds of one-off events than those considered by Longrich, hard to tell.

Quoting god must be atheist
My evolution is different from your evolution, then.


It's not so much about me, but personally I expect some sort of life elsewhere, even if now extinct. (Religions don't have a say in the matter.) :smile:

unenlightened November 28, 2021 at 17:02 #625067
Reply to god must be atheist
Every lady in the land
Has twenty digits on each hand
Five and twenty on hands and feet
And this is true without deceit.

(add punctuation to taste)
T Clark November 28, 2021 at 18:04 #625091
Quoting jorndoe
Life as we know it emerging elsewhere, more or less the same as here, also seems implausible. It's all we have to go by, though.


I found the article unconvincing.

One of my favorite authors, Stephen Jay Gould, used to say that the story of life was one of contingency. If we ran the tape of evolution back and started over, things would turn out completely differently. Simon Conway Morris has compiled extensive information on converging evolution and he disagrees. He believes that the basic forms of life in a particular environment, such as Earth, will always develop along similar paths. If we find life elsewhere, and if that elsewhere is similar to Earth, the range of organism designs will be similar. I don't know which is right. Probably a bit of both.

The article says:

Photosynthesis, which increased the energy available to life and produced oxygen, is a one-off. For that matter, so is human-level intelligence. There are marsupial wolves and moles, but no marsupial humans.

Checking on the web, the evidence that photosynthesis only evolved once seems ambiguous. Some sources say once, some say more. As for intelligence, cephalopods, e.g. octopuses, have a brain and neural structure which evolved separately from vertebrates and are considered very intelligent and, possibly, self-conscious.

As for the odds of life beginning at all - Life on earth may have begun fairly quickly, within 100 million years of when the environment was habitable.

None of this means that the article is wrong, just, as I noted, unconvincing.
Outlander November 28, 2021 at 23:46 #625305
Reply to T Clark

I believe it. Friend of mine, before they locked him up, used to work for the gubmint. Told me NASA found an entire planet where humans are less advanced than monkeys and roll around in filth, squalor, and can't speak. The dominant species are giant telepathic octopi who roam around collecting taxes, which thanks to their eight arms are terribly efficient. I believe him. He was a great dude before he lost his mind.
T Clark November 29, 2021 at 00:05 #625312
Quoting Outlander
I believe it. Friend of mine, before they locked him up, used to work for the gubmint. Told me NASA found an entire planet where humans are less advanced than monkeys and roll around in filth, squalor, and can't speak. The dominant species are giant telepathic octopi who roam around collecting taxes, which thanks to their eight arms are terribly efficient. I believe him. He was a great dude before he lost his mind.


Just as with the link @jorndoe sent, I find your story unconvincing.
Hanover November 29, 2021 at 00:27 #625323
I believe every blade of grass is exactly where it ought to be in order to fulfill a particular divine purpose, yet we walk blindly among miracles, missing bushes that burn unconsumed. Some stop, look, and do notice, but those who seem to be looking with the sharpest microscopes only see random blades in the wind. A strange divine purpose those must have, to have their heads directed toward the earth.

frank November 29, 2021 at 01:01 #625332
Outlander November 29, 2021 at 01:14 #625336
Quoting T Clark
Just as with the link jorndoe sent, I find your story unconvincing.


Well just what is it exactly you are convinced with then? The mentioned link suggests the possibility of humanity being the dominant species of the universe, my testimony suggests the opposite. Your running out of mental "safe zones" as it were. Remember, the floor is lava.
T Clark November 29, 2021 at 01:17 #625338
Quoting Outlander
Well just what is it exactly you are convinced with then? The mentioned link suggests the possibility of humanity being the dominant species of the universe, my testimony suggests the opposite. Your running out of mental "safe zones" as it were. Remember, the floor is lava.


Fortunately for all of us, I find all my posts unconvincing too.
Cartuna November 29, 2021 at 09:41 #625391
Reply to god must be atheist

A friend of mine was born with six fingers on one hand. They cut off at birth. As a guitar player he still condemns his mum. The aye-aye indeed has six fingers. Mostly though it are five (mammals) or three (birds). Is uneven the norm? Like one chiralty?

The article says that there are improbable events. But there are a lot of improbable events attributable to a a much bigger lot of lifeforms present, as species and within the species themselves. Events can even be induced by the organism themselves. It is not proven that DNA develops independently of the organisms they are in. The organism can develop features after which DNA is changed to meet protein demand.

Hanover November 29, 2021 at 11:05 #625421
Quoting Cartuna
friend of mine was born with six fingers on one hand. They cut off at birth. As a guitar player he still condemns his mum. The aye-aye indeed has six fingers. Mostly though it are five (mammals) or three (birds). Is uneven the norm? Like one chiralty?


I count 4.User image
Cartuna November 29, 2021 at 11:14 #625427
Quoting Hanover
I count 4.


Yes, you are right. Birds have 4. I overlooked the thumb (or is it the little index?). And we even have two chickens in the garden... They would kill me if they knew... Dogs have a little index hanging high on their feet.
unenlightened November 29, 2021 at 11:41 #625437
It does not seem to me that intelligence is all that rare:

elephants
whales
octopi
dolphins
apes
etc.

But what we always look for out there is not intelligent life but the reflection of our own insanity.
god must be atheist November 29, 2021 at 12:16 #625447
Quoting Hanover
I count 4.


Is that your friend's hand after or before they cut off the fifth finger??
god must be atheist November 29, 2021 at 12:18 #625449
Reply to unenlightened Intelligence is what intelligence does. (Forrest Gump, a bit revised)
god must be atheist November 29, 2021 at 12:25 #625453
Quoting Hanover
I believe every blade of grass is exactly where it ought to be in order to fulfill a particular divine purpose, yet we walk blindly among miracles, missing bushes that burn unconsumed. Some stop, look, and do notice, but those who seem to be looking with the sharpest microscopes only see random blades in the wind. A strange divine purpose those must have, to have their heads directed toward the earth.


Walking blindly is also done in order o fulfill a divine purpose; those with the sharpest (i.e. best resolution; microscopes are not cutting-edge tools) microscopes who see random blames in the wind are fulfilling a divine purpose. If they saw the divine purpose in the blades of grass, they would not be fulfilling a divine purpose, since their divine purpose is to see random blades in the grass. You CAN'T blame anyone for not fulfilling a divine purpose, since according to the author, most likely everything is fulfilling a divine purpose. If anything or anyone did other than what they are doing, they would not be fulfilling a divine purpose. Luckily everyone does what they do, and not something else. Therefore cosmic order of the divine purpose is not violated.
frank November 29, 2021 at 15:27 #625497
It's cold as shit out there.
Changeling November 29, 2021 at 16:46 #625533
Reply to frank in the Oort cloud?
frank November 29, 2021 at 17:11 #625539
Reply to The Opposite

There's an oort cloud outside my window.
Changeling November 29, 2021 at 18:22 #625567
Reply to frank keep an eye out for long-period comets.
frank November 29, 2021 at 18:56 #625576
Reply to The Opposite

ok. how much do they cost?
T Clark November 29, 2021 at 19:17 #625585
Quoting Cartuna
Yes, you are right. Birds have 4. I overlooked the thumb (or is it the little index?). And we even have two chickens in the garden... They would kill me if they knew... Dogs have a little index hanging high on their feet.


Stephen Jay Gould wrote an essay, "Eight Little Piggies," from the book by the same name. It describes how we came to have five fingers and toes on each hand and foot and why some animals have more or fewer. Great essay. Great book. Great writer. I can't find a free link on the web.
Hanover November 29, 2021 at 19:29 #625594
Reply to frank I won't take full credit for my quote above:

"Days pass and the years vanish and we walk sightless among miracles. Lord, fill our eyes with seeing and our minds with knowing. Let there be moments when your Presence, like lightning, illuminates the darkness in which we walk. Help us to see, wherever we gaze, that the bush burns, unconsumed. And we, clay touched by God, will reach out for holiness and exclaim in wonder, “How filled with awe is this place and we did not know it.”
~prayer excerpted from My Grandfather’s Blessings, by Rachel Naomi Remen
Changeling November 29, 2021 at 21:45 #625657
john27 November 29, 2021 at 22:57 #625690
I'm consumed by self sacrifice; a burning want to become a pleasant memory. A burning need to revitalize my death.
frank November 29, 2021 at 22:59 #625691
Reply to Hanover
both are cool
BC November 30, 2021 at 00:10 #625717
Reply to unenlightened Reply to Cartuna Reply to Hanover User image

User image

This is the most common foot in the bird world. It is found in birds such as robins, jays, and chickadees. The first digit (also called the hallux) faces backward while the other three digits point forwards. This type of foot can be found on most birds that regularly perch.
Cartuna November 30, 2021 at 00:14 #625720
Reply to Bitter Crank

It was a strange experience when I discovered our dog actually tiptoes. She has feet as long as legs. At the backleg still a dewclaw.
BC November 30, 2021 at 00:20 #625722
Reply to Cartuna Did you know horses run on one finger?

T Clark November 30, 2021 at 00:29 #625723
The best thing about Thanksgiving - Turkey a la King

User image
Cartuna November 30, 2021 at 00:42 #625729
Reply to Bitter Crank

No! Damned! Imagine that! Haha! My imagination gets a grip. Coming to think about it, it seems they made the right move with one hove. It's their superbig toe. A toe of everything.
BC November 30, 2021 at 00:52 #625733
Reply to Cartuna it is amazing; I find it hard to believe, but... there we are. BTW, that would be one hoof, two hooves. Hove is something else altogether. I thought it was a past tense of heave. The PT is heaved. Maybe hove is a vernacular form; she hove it over the the fence  ??? Beats me.
praxis November 30, 2021 at 00:56 #625735
Reply to T Clark

What did you use to make the white sauce?
T Clark November 30, 2021 at 00:58 #625736
Quoting praxis
What did you use to make the white sauce?


My wife.
praxis November 30, 2021 at 01:27 #625738
Reply to T Clark

And I suppose you served it with some fava beans and a nice chianti.

User image
Hanover November 30, 2021 at 02:06 #625744
Quoting T Clark
The best thing about Thanksgiving - Turkey a la King


I copied that recipe, but substituted ice for the turkey. It was cold wet pasta, but pretty darn delicious. Thanks again for sharing your recipes. Keep em comin!!
Hanover November 30, 2021 at 02:10 #625745
A goat has a split hoof, and it grows a toenail that curves over it when overgrown, so you have to cut it from time to time, holding tight, occasionally loosening your grip, allowing the hoof to kick up and and stabbing the clippers into your fucking thumb.
god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 02:24 #625748
Reply to Bitter Crank It behooves me to ask, BTW, whether a BMW has circular hooves, uncleft? Some transport trucks have cleft tires. Four wheels on one axel.
frank November 30, 2021 at 02:58 #625751
dinosaurs had chicken feet

User image
Streetlight November 30, 2021 at 03:23 #625755
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-echo-of-excommunication-top-spinoza-scholar-banned-from-amsterdam-synagogue/

They're still mad at Spinoza!

"More than 350 years after Baruch Spinoza was excommunicated from the Spanish-Portuguese Jewish community in Amsterdam, a leader of the community has banned a scholar of Spinoza’s work from visiting the community’s synagogue and library... “The chachamim and parnassim of Kahal Kados Torah excommunicated Spinoza and his writings with the severest possible ban, a ban that remains in force and cannot be rescinded,” Serfaty wrote, using the Hebrew words for the community’s leaders. ...“I therefore deny your request and declare you persona non grata in the Portuguese Synagogue complex,” he wrote."
BC November 30, 2021 at 05:23 #625775
Reply to god must be atheist To the extent that think of your BMW as your teutonic steed, then yes, it has circular hooves. Cleft? No. The Rock of Ages is cleft, as are pigs' feet. Rubber tires, not so much. If an axel is an ankle, then trucks have many feet.

Since trucks do not chew their cud and do not have cloven hooves, they are not kosher. So, just in case you were thinking of serving bits of your old truck for a Hanukkah lunch, it wouldn't be kosher, and your Jewish guests would be offended.
Changeling November 30, 2021 at 05:33 #625778
Reply to StreetlightX it's like you and the US.
Streetlight November 30, 2021 at 05:35 #625779
Cartuna November 30, 2021 at 07:23 #625791
Reply to Bitter Crank

It's strange though why move sounds like groove (but with one o), and hove sounds like stove (though I'm not sure; my natìve tongue and mouth are not English. and I haven't checked it with my computer). Are the m and h determining prepositions? Hoovercraft sòunds like groovercraft though. Hovercraft like overcraft. Hoofcraft is very appropiate.
BC November 30, 2021 at 07:34 #625794
Quoting Cartuna
my natìve tongue and mouth are not English. and I haven't checked it with my computer


You have my deepest sympathy. English spelling and pronunciation are fairly inconsistent.

Take the letter combination of 'ough':

rough - ruff
bough - bow - (as in to bend at the waist)
through - thru -
cough - cauff -
dough - doe -

When printing was introduced into England, printers decided how to spell words, based on sound and local practice. Different areas in England had remarkably different accents, so spelling and pronunciation ended up the way they are.

I don't know that English spelling is any worse than other languages--French, for example.
Jamal November 30, 2021 at 08:05 #625797
Quoting Bitter Crank
I don't know that English spelling is any worse than other languages--French, for example.


French, maybe not. But in my experience, Spanish, Italian, and Russian are much more consistent than English. Their spellings are a good guide to pronunciation. Something to do with this:


English orthography, for example, is alphabetic but highly nonphonemic; it was once mostly phonemic during the Middle English stage, when the modern spellings originated, but spoken English changed rapidly while the orthography was much more stable, resulting in the modern nonphonemic situation. However, because of their relatively recent modernizations compared to English, the Romanian, Italian, Turkish, Spanish, Finnish, Czech, Latvian, Esperanto, Korean and Swahili orthographic systems come much closer to being consistent phonemic representations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonemic_orthography

Except for misplaced emphasis, when I read a new word in Russian I usually get the pronunciation close enough (although I don't often know what it means). There are simple rules for pronunciation. Grammar is a very different, very scary, story.
god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 09:16 #625814
Reply to Bitter Crank :grin: Funny!!
god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 09:21 #625815
However, because of their relatively recent modernizations compared to English, ... Korean ...orthographic systems come much closer to being consistent phonemic representations.


Korean? How do you pronounce sticks and dots? I heard that 1. Far Eastern languages use unique symbols for each word, independent of other words' symbols, and I also heard that 2. Koreans discovered the movable type within two or three years of when Gutenberg did. So... written Korean is actually phonetic? I am completely ignorant on this, but this surprised me nevertheless.

god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 09:37 #625818
I also heard that written English is highly phonetic, with a lot of exceptions. The exceptions are mainly in old English words of Anglo-Saxon origin, because of regional dialects. A German friend of mine explained that even the immigrants form Saxony spake differently, and the german -ch ending got alternatively -ff or -ou ending in English, due to regional differences not only in England, but also in Saxony, where the speakers had come from. Thus, trough, rough, enough, came from ..., rauh, genug, but though, through and thorough came form doch, durch and ... .

So the exceptions are almost all monosyllabic words, because they got chiselled down over centuries of use, to shorter than they were originally; and because of the effect Jamalrob described. But newer words are pronounced as they are written: consciousness, paradigm, lotus flower.

One might add that the nature of phoneticism is two-way. You can read properly pronounced, and you can write properly spelled something you hear. Latin, Spanish, Esperanto. You can read properly pronounced, but you can't write properly spelled what you hear. Most languages. You can't easily spell what you hear, and you can't easily pronounce what you read: English. You can properly write what you hear, but you can't properly pronounced what is written: no such language.
Jamal November 30, 2021 at 10:02 #625824
Quoting god must be atheist
I also heard that written English is highly phonetic, with a lot of exceptions. The exceptions are mainly in old English words of Anglo-Saxon origin, because of regional dialects.


I suspect that it's not quite right to say that the inconsistencies are mere exceptions in a basically phonetic orthography, especially because the core of the language remains Anglo-Saxon--and on average, 70% of the words used in English writing are Anglo-Saxon (this is despite the fact that 70% of English words are actually now Latin- and French-based; many of these words are technical and are therefore less commonly used).

I also doubt that these so-called exceptions are "almost all monosyllabic words". Got some evidence of that? I do accept that the Old English words are generally shorter, of course.
god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 12:27 #625835
Quoting jamalrob
I also doubt that these so-called exceptions are "almost all monosyllabic words". Got some evidence of that?

I <> in
doubt <>
that <> dad
the <> he
so <> to
called <> culled
are <> ape
words <> lot
all <> am
got <> tot
some <> tome

= 11, and I daresay they are of anglo-saxon origin AND monosyllabic

also
exceptions
almost
monosyllabic
evidence
= 5, two Anglo-Saxon, 3 others

I understand that this is no scientific study, but you asked for evidence, not proof.

god must be atheist November 30, 2021 at 12:32 #625838
Quoting jamalrob
I suspect that it's not quite right to say that the inconsistencies are mere exceptions in a basically phonetic orthography


What would you call them?

Assuming that there is a generally accepted way of spelling phonemes, and the long, not Anglo-Saxon words do follow these rules of how to pronounce written letters.

It all depends on what you accept as normal. If you accept as normal "chaos", then yes, they are inconsistencies. If yo accept as normal the relationship between pronunciation and spelling in more modern words, then they are exceptions.

Some call it tomato, some call it tomato. (Pardon the pun.)
frank November 30, 2021 at 13:32 #625844
Quoting god must be atheist
Assuming that there is a generally accepted way of spelling phonemes, and the long, not Anglo-Saxon words do follow these rules of how to pronounce written letters.


The issue is more obvious if you focus on vowel sounds. The vowel sound in the English 'dot' can be represented by an a, o, or u.

In Spanish, that sound is always an a.
jorndoe November 30, 2021 at 14:27 #625852
'The Metaflower Super Mega Yacht' NFT Sells for a Record $650,000 USD (Nov 24, 2021)

12-Year-Old Earns $400,000 Selling NFTs to Idiots (Aug 26, 2021)

NFT: Non-fungible token; NFTs, explained

Maybe a philosophically oriented question could be how such things attain value.

jorndoe November 30, 2021 at 14:56 #625860
Biotech is moving:

Team builds first living robots—that can reproduce
[sup]AI-designed Xenobots reveal entirely new form of biological self-replication—promising for regenerative medicine
Nov 29, 2021[/sup]

doi.org/10.1073/pnas.2112672118

Srap Tasmaner November 30, 2021 at 17:02 #625898
Interesting piece in the Atlantic about freedom, American style.
BC November 30, 2021 at 17:24 #625906
Reply to god must be atheist Quoting jamalrob
the core of the language remains Anglo-Saxon--and on average, 70% of the words used in English writing are Anglo-Saxon (this is despite the fact that 70% of English words are actually now Latin- and French-based


33 years ago I went through the 7th Collegiate Dictionary 3 times and made a list of the words derived from Anglo Saxon (AS). (This wasn't obsessive compulsive disorder--I was doing it for a reason.). I don't remember now exactly how many words there were in the list, but it was around 5,000. I then wrote a program which enabled the computer to count the number and percentage of AS words in text samples. (All this had to do with readability.)

The higher the number of AS words, the easier the reading score. One could add to the 5000 AS words the list of words added to the language from French between 1066 (William the Bastard, Battle of Hastings, etc.). These words are also very common.

Tolkien's Lord of the Rings trilogy was, if I remember, about 90% AS and 1066 French. It scored as easily readable (maybe a 6th grade reading level). The Lives of the Cell by Lewis Thomas was composed of maybe 30% AS - 1066 words, and scored as college level reading (again, if memory serves me).

The point of this exercise was to show public health people that if they wanted to write about HIV-AIDS for 'the common man', they had best aim for Tolkien rather than Lewis Thomas. It was all water off a duck's back.

BTW, the huge expansion in English vocabulary started in the 1500s; a lot of words were borrowed from French and Latin particularly, or coined (like 'alienate' -- early 16th century: from Latin alienat- ‘estranged’, from the verb alienare, from alienus ‘of another’ . Later a batch from Greek were taken up (like kardia -- heart), or osteo and arthr (bone and joint) for osteoarthritis. Eros, of course, and pornography (porni (“prostitute”) and graphein, write).
baker November 30, 2021 at 19:46 #625992
Quoting Bitter Crank
You have my deepest sympathy. English spelling and pronunciation are fairly inconsistent.


Meh. Just don't think about it, don't try to understand it, don't analyze it. Just memorize the proper spelling and the proper pronounciation.* That's what I do.
I've been told by some Americans that I sound like Susan from Oregon. But I've been thinking of changing my English affiliation, because people tend to assume I'm a Murican, and I don't want that. British English is much harder to pronounce for me, though.



*Yes, I know you majored in English. :flower:
baker November 30, 2021 at 19:54 #625998
Quoting Bitter Crank
BTW, the huge expansion in English vocabulary started in the 1500s; a lot of words were borrowed from French and Latin particularly, or coined (like 'alienate' -- early 16th century: from Latin alienat- ‘estranged’, from the verb alienare, from alienus ‘of another’ . Later a batch from Greek were taken up (like kardia -- heart), or osteo and arthr (bone and joint) for osteoarthritis. Eros, of course, and pornography (porni (“prostitute”) and graphein, write).


Does English have a type of dictionary called "the dictionary of foreign words", or Fremdwörterbuch?
T Clark November 30, 2021 at 20:32 #626022
Quoting Bitter Crank
When printing was introduced into England, printers decided how to spell words, based on sound and local practice. Different areas in England had remarkably different accents, so spelling and pronunciation ended up the way they are.


Quoting jamalrob
Except for misplaced emphasis, when I read a new word in Russian I usually get the pronunciation close enough (although I don't often know what it means). There are simple rules for pronunciation. Grammar is a very different, very scary, story.


Here's what Stephen Pinker says about English spelling in "The Language Instinct."

Of course English spelling could be better than it is. But it is already much better than people think it is. That is because writing systems do not aim to represent the actual sounds of talking, which we do not hear, but the abstract units of language underlying them, which we do hear.

Of course, he provides much more detail about the subject.
BC December 01, 2021 at 00:02 #626164
Quoting baker
Does English have a type of dictionary called "the dictionary of foreign words", or Fremdwörterbuch?


That what English dictionaries are. The percentage of "foreign words" not of Anglo-Saxon origin comprises about 99% of the dictionary (rough guess). English preserved its grammar and its core-words.

Had William the Conqueror lost the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and never come back, the English language would most likely be much more Germanic. The Norman French took over the rule of the country. The common folk did not speak French, but the ruling class did, and that greatly influenced the the vocabulary of English. The upper crust ate pork, the peasants ate pig. Beef is French and ox is not.
Caldwell December 01, 2021 at 03:09 #626221
Reply to jorndoe
It's puzzling that xenobots are not organisms. What's the definition of a robot. The xenobots are made of frog cells.
Amity December 01, 2021 at 12:31 #626320
Quoting Misogyny
The guns are gone, but misogyny still stalks Northern Ireland

For unionist politicians, paedophile and domestic abuser David Tweed was just ‘larger than life’ – not a danger to women


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/01/misogyny-northern-ireland-david-tweed-unionists

The meaning and experience of misogyny - some don't recognise it or want to know until it 'hits' them. Such is life...

From wiki:

Misogyny (/m??s?d??ni/) is hatred or contempt for women. It is a form of sexism used to keep women at a lower social status than men, thus maintaining the societal roles of patriarchy.[1] Misogyny has been widely practiced for thousands of years. It is reflected in art, literature, human societal structure, historical events, mythology, philosophy, and religion worldwide....


jorndoe December 01, 2021 at 15:08 #626342
Much smaller than a human eye:

Researchers shrink camera to the size of a salt grain (Nov 29, 2021) doi.org/10.1038/s41467-021-26443-0

Jamal December 01, 2021 at 18:35 #626414
My God, Google Search is becoming quite rubbish.
Amity December 01, 2021 at 19:00 #626422
Quoting jamalrob
My God, Google Search is becoming quite rubbish.


Yeah, it's amazing the trash that turns up when you type in 'philosophy forum'.
Jamal December 01, 2021 at 19:04 #626424
Reply to Amity Ah yes. I remember the days when we were desperate to get to the top.
Jamal December 01, 2021 at 19:06 #626427
But we're not even on the first page for philosophy discussion.
Srap Tasmaner December 01, 2021 at 19:37 #626442
Reply to jamalrob You're doing it wrong.

But since Google tailors the results to the user, there's no general way to know.

Signed out, I get us on the first page for Google, result #2 for DuckDuckGo, and #1 on Bing.
Jamal December 01, 2021 at 20:02 #626444
Reply to Srap Tasmaner Ah yes. Well, signed out I get us right at the bottom of the first page, almost the same as the previous time, which was at the top of the second.
Noble Dust December 01, 2021 at 22:03 #626475
If I sign out and google search "philosophy forum" it's the first result. :chin:
Jamal December 01, 2021 at 23:27 #626510
Reply to Noble Dust yep, I was talking about 'philosophy discussion'. Keep up!
Noble Dust December 01, 2021 at 23:41 #626525
Reply to jamalrob

I gotta stop reading right to left...
Amity December 02, 2021 at 09:01 #626704
Quoting Amity
My God, Google Search is becoming quite rubbish.
— jamalrob

Yeah, it's amazing the trash that turns up when you type in 'philosophy forum'.


Quoting jamalrob
Ah yes. I remember the days when we were desperate to get to the top.


Quoting Noble Dust
If I sign out and google search "philosophy forum" it's the first result. :chin:


So, about 'Google Search becoming quite rubbish'...







Michael December 02, 2021 at 13:39 #626765
6/2(2+1) = ?

User image
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 13:45 #626768
Michael December 02, 2021 at 13:48 #626771
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 14:05 #626781
Reply to Michael Reply to jamalrob The intellectual battle whether it's potatoh or potahto.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:19 #626787
Quoting Michael
6/2(2+1) = ?


So which one's right? Obviously I was reading it like this:

[math]\frac{6}{2(2+1)} = ?[/math]

Maybe it's actually ambiguous, because it's not using proper mathematical symbols.

(thanks to fdrake for his MathJax tutorial :grin:)
Cartuna December 02, 2021 at 14:21 #626788
It's obviously 5, showing the complete equality between sharing and multi. Muli normally is first in the row, following powering. So 1.
Michael December 02, 2021 at 14:22 #626790
Reply to jamalrob I would say:

[math]6/2(2+1) = 6/2(3) = 6÷2×3[/math]

Solving left-to-right, [math]6÷2×3 = 3×3 = 9[/math]
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:26 #626791
Reply to Michael I'm guessing here but maybe 6÷2(2+1) would unambiguously equal 9, whereas 6/2(2+1) can be interpreted both ways.

EDIT: I'm probably wrong here, or half right at most.
Michael December 02, 2021 at 14:27 #626792
Reply to jamalrob So ÷ and / mean slightly different things?
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:33 #626795
Quoting Michael
So ÷ and / mean slightly different things?


I am unwilling to take my guess up to the level of an argument in the absence of the requisite knowledge.
Michael December 02, 2021 at 14:34 #626796
Although apparently there's a thing called implicit multiplication that has a higher priority then explicit multiplication and division, e.g. 2(3) has priority over 2×3. An example is 1/2x which would be 1/(2x), not (1/2)x. So the answer would be 1 in that case.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:35 #626797
Reply to Michael Yes! :strong:
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:36 #626798
6/2(2+1)

I'd wager that you'd never see this in a properly formatted text of a mathematical nature.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 14:40 #626800
[quote=Stuart Hargreaves]... the equation is deliberately imprecise to provoke discussion. It's why even well-educated mathematicians are disagreeing, why different calculators and tools produce different results and why there's still no clear answer even though the puzzle has been floating around for years.
[/quote]
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-answer-to-6%C3%B72-2+1/answer/Stuart-Hargreaves
Streetlight December 02, 2021 at 14:44 #626803
Team uno. Simplify what's in the brackets, then break the brackets, then everything else.
Noble Dust December 02, 2021 at 14:59 #626814
God I hate math.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 15:02 #626816
Reply to Noble Dust You have to pick a side ND.
Noble Dust December 02, 2021 at 15:29 #626823
Reply to jamalrob

My math-deficient brain prefers simplicity, so I’m a 1 guy.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 15:31 #626824
Reply to Noble Dust Good choice.
T Clark December 02, 2021 at 17:57 #626863
Quoting jamalrob
Good choice.


Don't get all excited. @Noble Dust rounds off pi to 3.
T Clark December 02, 2021 at 18:02 #626865
Quoting Michael
I would say:

6/2(2+1)=6/2(3)=6÷2×36/2(2+1)=6/2(3)=6÷2×3

Solving left-to-right, 6÷2×3=3×3=9


Solution to confusion - just add another pair of parentheses. That's what I always do when I can't keep track of presedense.
Noble Dust December 02, 2021 at 18:51 #626885
Reply to T Clark

I usually round off pie to within 1 slice or less.
Michael December 02, 2021 at 18:55 #626887
Reply to Noble Dust Can you have less than 1 slice?

What’s 1 slice divided by 2? 2 slices.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 19:00 #626891
Reply to Michael So half of one slice is one slice. As TheMadFool might say: paradox!
T Clark December 02, 2021 at 19:23 #626907
Quoting jamalrob
As TheMadFool might say: paradox!


I think that's Zeno's pie paradox. You'll never eat the whole pie.
baker December 02, 2021 at 19:26 #626908
Quoting Michael
What’s 1 slice divided by 2? 2 slices.


And that's how Jesus fed multitides with a few fish and a few loaves of bread.
Jamal December 02, 2021 at 19:34 #626913
Reply to T Clark It's Heraclitus. You never step in the same pie twice.
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 19:58 #626928
Quoting baker
And that's how Jesus fed multitides with a few fish and a few loaves of bread.

FISHPIE!!
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 19:59 #626930
a Canadian joke for you fellers: What's the circumference of an Igloo?
??
An eskimo pi.
Noble Dust December 02, 2021 at 20:41 #626957
Quoting Michael
Can you have less than 1 slice?


You can have 0 slices, math wiz.
Michael December 02, 2021 at 20:47 #626960
Reply to Noble Dust

I dunno, the concept of zero is pretty suspect. What’s the difference between 0 slices of pie and 0 slices of cake? Cake isn’t pie, so there must be some difference, but if there is no cake and no pie then there’s no “stuff” to be different.
Baden December 02, 2021 at 20:49 #626962
Reply to Michael

It's like when you ask for coffee without cream but they don't have cream, so you have to have coffee without milk instead. Totally different deal. Read Hegel.
Baden December 02, 2021 at 20:51 #626963
Or like the post you didn't write on a thread you closed yourself vs one on a thread someone closed "for" you. Thx, man. :lol:
Michael December 02, 2021 at 21:08 #626972
If I have 0 slices of cake you can’t take one from me. Negative numbers are a lie.
frank December 02, 2021 at 21:11 #626974
Reply to Michael

The difference is which category has the property of zero.

Zero comes from Babylon. It's the blank spots on an abacus, or rather the written record of what the abacus said, where there were no beads.
Tobias December 02, 2021 at 21:28 #626979
Ha, just noticed that my explanation of Hegel on the old has gained a second life on the internet. I do feel honored somewhat.
I do not know what Philosophy StackExchange is, maybe someone here knows, but hey, so far so good. Future internet archeologists will find a trace... ;)https://philosophy.stackexchange.com/questions/14533/what-did-hegel-mean-by-world-spirit

Noble Dust December 02, 2021 at 21:40 #626984
Reply to Michael

You can go from having 8 to 0 slices of any type of pastry you desire. It’s like having loved and lost; better to have eaten 8 pieces of chocolate raspberry cheesecake and have heartburn than to have had no pieces at all.
god must be atheist December 02, 2021 at 23:42 #627073
I have 10 slices of pizza in front of me, but I owe 11 slices to the devil. Therefore I have -1 slice. (Before cutting any existing slices up.)
john27 December 03, 2021 at 00:28 #627082
Reply to Michael

Hold up, isn't this just order of operations? Or am I missing something.
T Clark December 03, 2021 at 00:32 #627085
Quoting Baden
It's like when you ask for coffee without cream but they don't have cream, so you have to have coffee without milk instead. Totally different deal. Read Hegel.


Or as George Jones used to sing, "When your phone don't ring, it'll be me."
john27 December 03, 2021 at 00:41 #627090
Reply to god must be atheist

Except if you put anchovies on them.

Don't think even the devil would try his luck with those things.
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 00:51 #627096
Reply to john27

You haven’t met the right anchovy pizza.
Baden December 03, 2021 at 01:24 #627105
Reply to T Clark

I like that... :cool:
Caldwell December 03, 2021 at 01:58 #627110
Quoting T Clark
Don't get all excited. Noble Dust rounds off pi to 3.

:grin:
Caldwell December 03, 2021 at 02:01 #627113
Quoting john27
Except if you put anchovies on them.

Don't think even the devil would try his luck with those things.


Quoting Noble Dust
You haven’t met the right anchovy pizza.


Noble Dust is correct. And it's a hit or miss. If you get a miss, it's....bad. :roll:
Hanover December 03, 2021 at 02:29 #627119
Quoting Michael
6/2(2+1) = ?


2(2+1)= (2×2) + (2x1) = 4+2
So, 6÷4+2= 3.5.

Hanover December 03, 2021 at 02:35 #627123
Quoting john27
Except if you put anchovies on them.


In college, I'd order anchovy and onion pizzas so no one would steal my pizza. I'd also only drink PBR before it became hip, because back in the day everyone knew it was actually disgusting, so no one stole my beer.

The key to survival is to thrive on what no one else can tolerate.

Hanover December 03, 2021 at 02:43 #627126
My favorite job was delivering pizza. It was like driving home, except you went to someone else's house. Oh, and you handed them a pizza. That was the other thing different from going home. I like going home when I'm at work, so that's what I liked about the pizza job. At my job now, I only get to go home once, but I don't have to hand anyone a pizza, so that's good.
Sir2u December 03, 2021 at 02:49 #627129
Quoting god must be atheist
I have 10 slices of pizza in front of me, but I owe 11 slices to the devil. Therefore I have -1 slice. (Before cutting any existing slices up.)


I have zero slices of pizza, and don't even think of coming near it with a knife. I am going to eat the whole freakin thing and to hell with the devil. :naughty:

But to solve your problem is easy, tel them to cut it into 20 slices. Then you can screw the devil by giving him only half. :lol:
Hanover December 03, 2021 at 02:55 #627131
My worst job was washing dishes at a Chinese restaurant. They hung fly strips with this molasses stuff on it to catch the flies in the kitchen. Sometimes they'd slap you on the face and you'd have sticky stuff on your cheek. The Chinese guys would chain smoke and try to get me to eat unidentifiable foods. They paid just under minimum wage at $3/hour, but I was only 15, so there really weren't specific laws for underage workers, so that worked out.

I should have hung with it. If probably be a shift manager by now.
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 02:58 #627132
My favorite job was working for Network and Telecomm for the university as a student. I'd sit around for an hour or two, waiting for a ticket to come in, then me and my 80-year-old co-worker would drive to Sheetz for coffee and doughnuts, then we'd go putz around in the bowels of an ancient campus building, pull a few wires here and there, and before we knew it was time for lunch. My boss almost fired me several times.
god must be atheist December 03, 2021 at 03:00 #627133
Quoting Sir2u
Then you can screw the devil by giving him only half.


Not my ideal for carnal pleasures, but hey, with my looks I can't be choosy.
god must be atheist December 03, 2021 at 04:40 #627164
Quoting john27
Except if you put anchovies on them.

Don't think even the devil would try his luck with those things.


I hope it's only coincidence that my name gets mentioned so often in association with the devil.

One rational explanation may be that I (no joke) like anchovy pizzaz. Tomatoes, pepperoni, anchovies. You wouldn't believe.

I remember after moving out of home, I gained 15 lbs in the first year, because every night I would go to a local restaurant after work, order a small t-p-a pizza, and eat it with a vat of chocolate milkshake.

Them is them good eats.
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 04:55 #627167
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 05:32 #627189
Reply to Noble Dust That looks like a pizza. Do you really have to call it a pie? :grimace:

They look like good fresh anchovies.
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 05:36 #627191
Anchovy pie.

User image

Served as an aperitif, starter or main course, here is a delicious salty cake with Southern accents.


https://www.lady-first.me/article/anchovy-pie,3568.html
Caldwell December 03, 2021 at 05:47 #627202
Quoting jamalrob
Anchovy pie.


*gasp* :gasp:

I'm not that brave.
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 06:29 #627223
I've had several bad jobs but although they were horrible at the time, I look back on them with some fondness, probably just because they enrich my life story.

After university I didn't know what to do. I saw an ad in the paper: EARN £1000 IN A WEEK! Sounds good, I thought. The job was to walk around the streets hauling a huge bag of cheap products to sell to people in shops, offices, building sites--anywhere we could find people except for private houses. It was commission-only so there was no wage. You had to sell a lot to make any money.

On my first day I was attached to a more experienced salesman, who was a bit younger than me. I had to just follow him around and watch him in action. His energy and positivity were infectious, and on the whole I had a fun day.

But as we walked along Sauchiehall Street past the Beresford Hotel, I said "wow, it's an amazing building isn't it?" He looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language and said, "what?" I said, "the building, it's really cool." He still didn't get it, and we decided to get back to selling. I was young and ignorant so it honestly hadn't occurred to me that anyone could be unable to grasp the concept of architectural beauty.

Later I followed him as he barged into a funeral director's and started trying to sell his crap to the grieving relatives who were sitting in the waiting room. I'll never forget the way they looked at us. I've always felt ashamed of this. I could have refused to go in.

When I went out on my own the next day, I was unable to maintain the energy and positivity of my mentor, and I struggled to sell anything.

When I tried selling to bricklayers and mechanics and joiners, they often told me to get a real job, and this further dented my optimism about the whole venture, because I knew they were right.

But there were good things about it. I enjoyed selling the battery powered lint removers (£5), which I would switch on and buzz for a few seconds as I entered shops and businesses, in a kind of grand entrance. Then I'd say, "Hello ladies! Look what I've got for you today!" It was kind of fun to try on a personality that wasn't mine. Some people found it charming and bought one.

And I discovered that there were surprisingly complex hidden worlds behind the facades of the buildings I'd been seeing since childhood. Warrens of old offices that had doors with frosted glass and names etched into them, and strange people fiddling with mysterious instruments.

After three weeks, what money I'd made had been swallowed up by travelling expenses, so I left.
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 07:36 #627237
Quoting Caldwell
I'm not that brave.


I'd certainly try it. Anchovies are not all equal.
Amity December 03, 2021 at 08:46 #627251
Quoting jamalrob
Anchovies are not all equal.


Same for sheep ?
First Dog on the Moon shares his thoughts...
Quoting Guardian Cartoon
Living with sheep it is clear that they have sheep hopes and dreams – they also have sheep ideas

https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10421/cartoon-of-the-day/latest/comment
Amity December 03, 2021 at 08:51 #627253
Reply to jamalrob

Derek And Clive - The Worst Job
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SentQjMIioY
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 09:15 #627257
Reply to Amity Reply to Amity I enjoyed those. It's long time since I listened to Derek and Clive.
Amity December 03, 2021 at 09:22 #627258
Quoting jamalrob
It's long time since I listened to Derek and Clive.


Ah yes, the 70's....
My first love-lust forced me to listen to 'em :monkey:
Not quite sure I ever took to them...but once heard never forgotten...
frank December 03, 2021 at 14:37 #627322
Reply to jamalrob

Do you mostly eat boiled cabbage?
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 14:38 #627323
Reply to frank Is that a reference to my Russian residency? If so, I'm offended!
frank December 03, 2021 at 14:41 #627325
Reply to jamalrob

No it's just that Americans who are part Russian eat cabbage during Christmas. I thought that meant Russians eat a lot of cabbage. They don't?
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 14:43 #627326
Reply to frank I have seen a cabbage or two in my time here, it's true, but cabbage is by no means predominant in my experience.
frank December 03, 2021 at 14:44 #627327
Reply to jamalrob

How about vodka? The folklore is that they drink huge amounts of it.
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 14:48 #627328
Reply to frank Vodka comes out on special occasions, sometimes at the weekend if friends come round. If you drink it alone or without accompanying snacks you are regarded as a barbarian. And you can't drink your vodka without making a toast and drinking along with everyone else. It's a commitment.

I haven't seen as much public drunkenness as I've seen in Scotland. (EDIT: I guess that's not saying much)
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 15:00 #627329
Reply to jamalrob

When the sun hits your eye like a big pizza pie, bruh.

Reply to jamalrob

Looks kind of like Spanish tortilla?

Jamal December 03, 2021 at 15:01 #627330
Quoting Noble Dust
When the sun hits your eye like a big pizza pie, bruh.


Yeah, it's the reason I hate that song. (it's the moon though isn't it?)

Quoting Noble Dust
Looks kind of like Spanish tortilla?


No pastry in a Spanish tortilla.
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 15:06 #627332
Quoting jamalrob
Yeah, it's the reason I hate that song.


That’s the only reason? :chin:

Quoting jamalrob
No pastry in a Spanish tortilla.


Ah, right. Spain is on the top of my list for culinary destinations, lo key (as the kids say)

Jamal December 03, 2021 at 15:08 #627333
Quoting Noble Dust
That’s the only reason?


Well, I guess there's also the repulsive melody, and the horrible everything else.
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 15:09 #627335
Noble Dust December 03, 2021 at 15:11 #627336
Reply to frank

Weirdly, I wasn’t a fan of cabbage until I had it in authentic Cantonese food.
frank December 03, 2021 at 16:49 #627352
Quoting Noble Dust
Weirdly, I wasn’t a fan of cabbage until I had it in authentic Cantonese food.


What do they do with it? There's a purple cabbage that turns an interesting blueish violet when you boil it. And it's pretty good.
fdrake December 03, 2021 at 16:59 #627356
Quoting jamalrob
I haven't seen as much public drunkenness as I've seen in Scotland. (EDIT: I guess that's not saying much)


get the swally fired intae ye ya prick
Jamal December 03, 2021 at 17:04 #627361
Reply to fdrake :rofl: :party:
god must be atheist December 03, 2021 at 17:20 #627370
Quoting frank
What do they do with it? There's a purple cabbage that turns an interesting blueish violet when you boil it. And it's pretty good.


I like ultraviolet cabbage. You get it that colour when you accelerate it to the speed of light. Mm-mm. Yummy.
praxis December 03, 2021 at 17:30 #627375
I’ve tried unsuccessfully to make Caesar dressing a few times. Tricky to get the anchovies right. It hadn’t occurred to me that they’re not all equal.
T Clark December 03, 2021 at 19:42 #627409
Quoting jamalrob
Well, I guess there's also the repulsive melody, and the horrible everything else.


Great movie, though. Cher is so beautiful.

T Clark December 03, 2021 at 19:43 #627410
Quoting Noble Dust
Weirdly, I wasn’t a fan of cabbage until I had it in authentic Cantonese food.


Cabbage is one of my favorite vegetables. Good raw. Better steamed.
john27 December 03, 2021 at 21:24 #627453
So many anchovyists on this forum. I feel slightly betrayed.
john27 December 03, 2021 at 21:24 #627454
Reply to jamalrob

Oh my lord.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 00:46 #627531
Quoting john27
So many anchovyists on this forum. I feel slightly betrayed.

I get how you feel john and I share that feeling. In addition to feeling slightly betrayed, I as a Pisces am feeling a bit hunted. :yikes:

Swimming behind @Caldwell keeper of all critters big and small. :flower:


ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 00:47 #627532
Quoting john27
Oh my lord.


Must you bring him into this?
Oh and Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
We are excited that you are here :sparkle:
john27 December 04, 2021 at 01:46 #627553
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

A little late on the inauguration, but I appreciate it nonetheless.
john27 December 04, 2021 at 01:48 #627556
Reply to god must be atheist

Anchovies... eating pizza with a chocolate milkshake...

Im scared to ask what you have for breakfast.
Noble Dust December 04, 2021 at 02:38 #627576
Reply to frank

It's just steamed, but with char siu pork over rice it's divine.
Noble Dust December 04, 2021 at 02:39 #627577
Quoting T Clark
Cabbage is one of my favorite vegetables.


I remember that about you, now that you say that.
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 02:46 #627579
Quoting john27
Im scared to ask what you have for breakfast.


Reply to john27 Normally, sheep's brain, bats' legs and kitten heads, freshly bitten off. Mm-mm. Yummy.
praxis December 04, 2021 at 02:47 #627580
Quoting Noble Dust
Cabbage is one of my favorite vegetables.
— T Clark

I remember that about you, now that you say that.


I remember Clark mentioning that he's prone to flatulence. That claim is much more credible now.
Caldwell December 04, 2021 at 03:01 #627584
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Swimming behind Caldwell keeper of all critters big and small. :flower:

:grin: Very funny.

Quoting jamalrob
I'd certainly try it. Anchovies are not all equal.

Okay, I'll try it if you say so.
Changeling December 04, 2021 at 03:09 #627586
Quoting T Clark
Cabbage is one of my favorite vegetables.


Which is your favourite Brassica oleracea?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 03:28 #627588
One time my friend and I hopped into my 1971 Super Beetle, dark blue, three speed to go pick up some pizzas we had ordered but had to hustle back to the house before our boyfriends got there. Yeah we were 17 and they were older but that doesn't really matter here. My friend runs into the pizza place, gets our order and I am in reverse trying to get back and I smell the most foul smell I had ever smelled. I told her that it smells awful. She ripped the paper off the expensive Ceasers Pizza Pizza and the smell actually got worse I told her to get that out of the car! She tripped on the curb getting out of my bug and the pizza went sliding out of the package and she landed in it.
I was dying of laughter, she was pissed until I stopped laughing when she had to ride home in my bug.
We made it home without the pizza but the guys could tell that something had obviously happened but neither one of us could get through the story without cracking each other up.
Omg...I hadn't thought about that in years!
Thank you for the memory prompt :flower:
I still hate anchovies :joke:
Hanover December 04, 2021 at 04:09 #627595
From a Yahoo article:

Here's the top ten countries ranked by the number of times respondents from each country said they got drunk per year:

Australia: 26.7

Denmark: 23.8

Finland: 23.8

United States: 23.1

United Kingdom: 22.5

Canada: 22

Ireland: 20

France: 17.5

Sweden: 16

Netherlands: 15.7

@Baden, you lost to Canada! Really? What's it going to take to get you guys back to the pub?
praxis December 04, 2021 at 04:16 #627597
Maybe Guinness is having COVID related supply chain issues.
T Clark December 04, 2021 at 04:37 #627599
Quoting praxis
I remember Clark mentioning that he's prone to flatulence.


Usually sitting.
Noble Dust December 04, 2021 at 04:45 #627600
Reply to T Clark

Why is that worth mention Clarky?
T Clark December 04, 2021 at 04:45 #627601
Quoting The Opposite
Which is your favourite Brassica oleracea?


Let me think.... Celine Dion I guess. No, wait - Brussels sprouts and cabbage.
Hanover December 04, 2021 at 14:33 #627705
This came up when I Googled "teeth in face " Enjoy!

[WARNING FROM JAMALROB: Click "Reveal" only if you want to see a disturbing and horrific image]
[hide]User image[/hide]
john27 December 04, 2021 at 14:40 #627709
Reply to Hanover

You're a bitch.
T Clark December 04, 2021 at 17:33 #627748
Quoting Hanover
This came up when I Googled "teeth in face " Enjoy!


Jamalrob Award for creepiest, most God-awful post of the year.

Oh, God. Please take it down. Put up a nice picture of a goat. With no teeth embedded in its face.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 17:44 #627752
Quoting john27
You're a bitch.


Oh my my...so early in your time here. :razz:
Have you been on the forum under another nickname? Maybe at the old place?
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 17:45 #627753
Reply to T Clark Fixed. Yeah, that was too horrible for me.
T Clark December 04, 2021 at 17:52 #627758
Quoting jamalrob
Fixed. Yeah, that was too horrible for me.


Good, even-handed solution. But the evil of the photo keeps calling me to push the reveal button. It's the Devil, I tells you.
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 17:55 #627760
Reply to T Clark I too feel His presence, goading me.
john27 December 04, 2021 at 17:56 #627761
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

No, i'm a fledgling here.

Not sure I would last that long with pictures like that .
john27 December 04, 2021 at 17:58 #627764
Reply to jamalrob

Maybe there should be a spoiler action that would blur out the image before you click on it. That would be nice.

Edit: Or just not post creepy things like that in general... jeezus thats actually going to give me nightmares.
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 18:12 #627769
Quoting Hanover
Here's the top ten countries ranked by the number of times respondents from each country said they got drunk per year:

Australia: 26.7
Denmark: 23.8
Finland: 23.8
United States: 23.1
United Kingdom: 22.5
Canada: 22
Ireland: 20
France: 17.5
Sweden: 16
Netherlands: 15.7


Interesting to compare that with the WHO figures for alcohol consumption (2016):

Moldova: 15.2
Lithuania: 15.0
Czech Republic: 14.4
Seychelles: 13.8
Germany: 13.4
Nigeria: 13.4
Luxembourg: 13.0
Ireland: 13.0
Latvia: 12.9
Bulgaria: 12.7
Slovenia: 12.6
France: 12.6
Romania: 12.6
Portugal: 12.3
Belgium: 12.1
Russia: 11.7
Austria: 11.6
Estonia: 11.6
Poland: 11.6
Slovakia: 11.5

A pretty good showing from the Slavs and Baltics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 18:13 #627770
Quoting jamalrob
I too feel His presence, goading me.

I feel a presence goating me too!
:razz:

praxis December 04, 2021 at 18:15 #627771
Quoting john27
Maybe there should be a spoiler action that would blur out the image before you click on it. That would be nice.


Click on the eye icon to use spoiler action.

If you dare…
[hide] User image[/hide]
john27 December 04, 2021 at 18:17 #627772
Reply to praxis

Psh. Fool me once...
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 18:17 #627773
Quoting john27
Edit: Or just not post creepy things like that in general... jeezus thats actually going to give me nightmares


Oh you came so close to bringing in Jesus!
Quick side question: if you have a religious path what would it be?
Also never feel required to divulge anything you do not wish to, especially with questions like the one I just asked.

Did that come across as a disclaimer?
john27 December 04, 2021 at 18:21 #627775
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Probably taoism. I like to go with the flow.

Badum tsh.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 04, 2021 at 18:40 #627782
Quoting john27
Probably taoism. I like to go with the flow.


Very nice :flower:
The last forum member that I remember speaking of taoism was a great guy named Marsman. A very colorful, calm soul who has since left this realm to whatever he believed in regarding the afterlife.
In fact I use the word "soul" regarding Marsman because we had a discussion about souls and whether or not they exist. I set up a poll on the forum asking members if they believed that souls exist and it was the highest attended poll of the forum and went on for a long time and if my memory serves me right, it was a 50/50 split.
@Michael might be able to extract the thread from the tapestry of the prior place.
It was truly fascinating for Marsman and I, it gave us more philosophical food to chew on than he had time for. I often wonder about him because he likely knows what happens when we depart this realm.
I am curious as to what you think happens?
john27 December 04, 2021 at 18:51 #627786
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

I'd like to think you get a statistical score of your life at the end.
Maybe a little bit like:

How many times you were wrong:
100100
How many times you were right:
3
Girls fallen for:
12000
Girls Fell:
109
etc...
fdrake December 04, 2021 at 18:52 #627788
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
A very colorful, calm soul who has since left this realm to whatever he believed in regarding the afterlife.


Marsman died? Oh no. :sad:
Michael December 04, 2021 at 19:39 #627807
Reply to fdrake https://jref.com/threads/rest-in-peace-mars-man.58490/
fdrake December 04, 2021 at 20:09 #627816
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 21:24 #627843
Quoting jamalrob
A pretty good showing from the Slavs and Baltics.


Alcohol is the cheapest mind-altering drug to manufacture, and it's legal, too.

In the west they pay high price for alcohol, because they tax drinkers to death. In the east they have little money, so by the time they paid for their dirt-cheap booze, there is nothing left for cocaine. While at the same time in the west the starter-drugs on the street are cheaper than the alcohol in the stores.
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 21:28 #627846
Quoting john27
Girls fallen for:
12000
Girls Fell:
109


Much better batting average than mine.

Girls fallen for: 3.5 Billion minus 1.

You don't want to meet Agnes. Believe me, you don't.
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 21:29 #627847
Reply to god must be atheist Western Europe is also well represented in that list.
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 21:30 #627848
Edit: I did not like this post by myself.
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 21:31 #627849
Reply to jamalrob I don't see Hungary anywhere. What happened to us?
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 21:33 #627850
Reply to god must be atheist Not far behind Slovakia with 11.4 litres.
god must be atheist December 04, 2021 at 21:42 #627854
Reply to jamalrob Hm. The curve flattens there, so maybe it's far from Slovakia. I don't know.

More importantly, there is no National Geographic Society regional map or regional atlas page (up to the editions in the late 1980s in the least) in which Hungary is shown in one solid continuous piece. Western Hungary is shown with Austria and Switzerland; northern Hungary is shown with Poland and Czechoslovakia; southern and eastern are shown with Yugoslavia and with Romania/Bulgaria, respectively.

And you guys wonder why I am such an angry big mouth piece-of-..., writing and arguing in provocative style. It's because not only am I only 5'2", but my country gets no respect from NGS.

And now this. We are drank under the table by most if not all European nations.
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 21:46 #627856
Reply to god must be atheist That's nothing. A good portion of the people I meet cannot grasp the very concept of Scotland and insist on saying that I come from "England".
Jamal December 04, 2021 at 21:50 #627858
Quoting god must be atheist
We are drank under the table by most if not all European nations


Don't worry. It looks like you're ahead of the Vatican City.
john27 December 04, 2021 at 22:28 #627873

Reply to god must be atheist

Agnes, peh, You ever heard of Susan?

Now that one's a killer. In both ways.
Hanover December 05, 2021 at 00:11 #627895
Quoting T Clark
Good, even-handed solution. But the evil of the photo keeps calling me to push the reveal button. It's the Devil, I tells you.


But what is art other than that which evokes an impassioned response?

It asks, what is beauty?
Hanover December 05, 2021 at 00:14 #627896
frank December 05, 2021 at 01:43 #627920
If you just got a JBL party box and you want to see if the bass really works, play this:


T Clark December 05, 2021 at 02:57 #627936
Quoting Hanover
It asks, what is beauty?


Ah, yes, I remember those moving lines from Keats:

[i]Beauty is a dolls face with teeth embedded, a dolls face with teeth embedded beauty
That is all we know on Earth and all we need to know.[/i]
god must be atheist December 05, 2021 at 03:24 #627942
Quoting john27
Agnes, peh, You ever heard of Susan?

Now that one's a killer. In both ways.


Have I ever heard of her? Have I EVER heard of her?

She and I been married seven hundred and twenty-eight years. The happiest seven hundred and twenty-eight years of my life.
god must be atheist December 05, 2021 at 04:01 #627949
Quoting jamalrob
Not far behind Slovakia with 11.4 litres


Knowing Hungarian merchandising practices, however, those 11.4 litres are most likely heavily watered down.
Noble Dust December 05, 2021 at 05:32 #627965
Reply to god must be atheist

Hungarian wine is pretty incredible; I work in the wine biz in NY and we have access to some seriously great Hungarian wine here.
god must be atheist December 05, 2021 at 10:29 #628001
Reply to Noble Dust I agree with you, ND, but only due to national pride. I stopped drinking at 22. I was already a problem binge drinker then. When I took a glass of anything, I could not stop until I passed out from alcohol overdose. (Not lethal, obviously.) So at twenty-two I smartened up and stopped drinking altogether.

I heard Hungarian wines are good, and I believe there was a wine-revolution back about 30-40 years ago when all international wines improved. The technology overtook the art of wine making with the science of winemaking. All of a sudden all kinds of great wines popped up from South Africa, Chile, California, Canada and wherever else. The dominance of the French, Italian, Iberian and German superiority was shaken.

Wine holds a special place as an occupational aide in philosophy. In vino, veritas.
john27 December 05, 2021 at 12:40 #628028
Reply to god must be atheist

!?

But, but...!

Sorry, I think I need some time alone right now...
frank December 05, 2021 at 14:21 #628034
Hayek says that if no law is broken, there's no injustice, and he rejects legislation against social injustice.

He only recognizes in law that evolved naturally, so social customs and whatnot.

So because our ancestors were assholes, there's no such thing as social justice or injustice.

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 14:33 #628036
Quoting fdrake
Marsman died? Oh no. :sad:

fdrake, I am sorry you were not already aware of Marsmans passing. I do appreciate @Michael posting just one of his many tributes~
:heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 14:37 #628038
Quoting frank
Hayek says that if no law is broken, there's no injustice, and he rejects legislation against social injustice.


So does that mean that Hayek's theory would be in play when in Arizona, beastiality with barn animals was made illegal after the year 2000?

Because it was legal until then?
I'm not a big fan of Hayek so far.... :brow:
john27 December 05, 2021 at 14:47 #628042
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Why is that law so recent.
frank December 05, 2021 at 15:10 #628048
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Hayek would say that if goat fucking is an organic feature of Arizona's cultural heritage, it would be folly to outlaw it because interfering with naturally emerging customs could set off a catastrophic series of events ultimately leaving Arizona in the stone age.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 15:11 #628049
Quoting john27
Why is that law so recent.


Well if I am understanding Hayek's theory it was not or should never be made illegal, so then that would suggest that there is a population of people who find it appealing.
But someone decided that it would be their public push to make it against the law and succeeded.
I don't know enough about Hayek to say what the true position would be.
Just offering up a possibility of Hayek's theory in action.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 15:13 #628052
Quoting frank
Hayek would say that if goat fucking is an organic feature of Arizona's cultural heritage

~shuddering~

Hanover December 05, 2021 at 15:36 #628056
Quoting frank
Hayek would say that if goat fucking is an organic feature of Arizona's cultural heritage, it would be folly to outlaw it because interfering with naturally emerging customs could set off a catastrophic series of events ultimately leaving Arizona in the stone age.


Look guys, I'm not sure what you think you saw, but I was just trying to get this goat over the fence.
frank December 05, 2021 at 16:18 #628070
Reply to Hanover

There's no gate?
Hanover December 05, 2021 at 16:20 #628071
Quoting frank
There's no gate?


I'm just trying to get him over the fence. Why all the questions?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 16:23 #628073
Quoting Hanover
A goat has a split hoof, and it grows a toenail that curves over it when overgrown, so you have to cut it from time to time, holding tight, occasionally loosening your grip, allowing the hoof to kick up and and stabbing the clippers into your fucking thumb.


Mmmm I have been around goats for a while now and this seems to be a shady way to clip toenails.
So it does make me wonder what you were actually doing with the goat and the fence.
Was it a hot wire fence? That could be soul jolting... maybe something Georgians are into?


baker December 05, 2021 at 16:27 #628076
Quoting frank
Hayek would say that if goat fucking is an organic feature of Arizona's cultural heritage, it would be folly to outlaw it because interfering with naturally emerging customs could set off a catastrophic series of events ultimately leaving Arizona in the stone age.


Really, _that_ would leave Arizona in the stone age?
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 16:41 #628083

Reply to Michael https://jref.com/threads/rest-in-peace-mars-man.58490/
I'm sorry to hear the news. I still remember our conversation back at the other philosophy site. It was great to have him.
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 16:43 #628085
@Hanover
I need to talk to you please.
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 16:46 #628089
Good morning, everyone. I hope you are having a nice cup of coffee in this overcast weather morning.
Jamal December 05, 2021 at 16:58 #628094
Reply to Caldwell Good morning Caldwell. I've just had my last glass of wine of the evening, and I should probably go to sleep.
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 17:02 #628095
Quoting jamalrob
?Caldwell
Good morning Caldwell. I've just had my last glass of wine of the evening, and I should probably go to sleep.

Bonne nuit.
Jamal December 05, 2021 at 17:04 #628096
frank December 05, 2021 at 18:50 #628121
Quoting baker
Really, _that_ would leave Arizona in the stone age?


Yep. All the way back.

User image
BC December 05, 2021 at 20:05 #628138
Reply to Caldwell Thank you. I have finished several nice cups of coffee, and should get on with the day. How did you know it was overcast in Minneapolis? Have you been stalking Minnesota?

It snowed here last night, but it was just a little--maybe an inch. Just enough to make things look properly December.

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 20:13 #628139
Quoting Caldwell
Good morning, everyone. I hope you are having a nice cup of coffee in this overcast weather morning.

Good morning to you Caldwell :flower:
It's 75* and not a cloud in sight of the hammock I am sunning in :sparkle:

Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 20:54 #628158
Quoting Bitter Crank
How did you know it was overcast in Minneapolis? Have you been stalking Minnesota?

Yes. Through satellite communications. :smile: haha! Honestly I check Moscow's time each time jamalrob says good morning!

Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
It's 75* and not a cloud in sight of the hammock I am sunning in :sparkle:

And so stunning! A good day, Tiff.

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 21:12 #628171
Quoting Caldwell
And so stunning! A good day, Tiff.


I'm not sure that's what the ranch next door thinks but thank you for the amazing compliment :love:
You were the start of this good day~ Thank you :sparkle:
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 21:16 #628177
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
That's Tiff country!
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 05, 2021 at 21:18 #628179
Daily dose of humor without video :rofl:
I am sunning in the hammock and after I was done posting here, I went back to listening to The Eagles. By the way not the best group to be looking to for guidence forward through a divorce.
But just at the moment Peaceful Easy Feeling goes into chorus I hear a snap, then another and my Hemp hammock that is 5 years old let go of me. Gently mind you...but still amusing my dogs think it's time to play with Mom!
Silly puppies...oh well it looks like I am on the hunt for a new one.
Onward and Upward :up: It's the only way!
Caldwell December 05, 2021 at 21:21 #628183
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
But just at the moment Peaceful Easy Feeling goes into chorus I hear a snap, then another and my Hemp hammock that is 5 years old let go of me. Gently mind you...but still amusing my dogs think it's time to play with Mom!

haha! :sweat:
T Clark December 06, 2021 at 06:42 #628326
News from Boston:

A woman who died after being injured by a comfort animal at a farm in Bolton, Massachusetts, was repeatedly rammed by a sheep, police announced Sunday.

Killed by a sheep. Are goats or pigs any better? Do @Shawn and @Hanover harbor dangerous, vicious killers.
frank December 06, 2021 at 12:56 #628397
Reply to T Clark

How does somebody just stand there and get rammed by a ram until they're dead? How about run away?
Hanover December 06, 2021 at 19:07 #628504
Quoting frank
How does somebody just stand there and get rammed by a ram until they're dead? How about run away?


A ram moves fast and once it knocks the shit out of you, it's likely to be able to keep at it.

My goats are debudded, which means their horns have been removed. The purpose for that is mainly so that they don't get their horns stuck in the fence, which they're prone to do. Goats do butt you as you walk around them, much like a dog might try to use it's mouth or a cat it's claws. It's their natural defense and a way they show dominance, even when their horns are removed. My goats are also Nigerian Dwarf Goats, so they're not very big, so if they tried to butt me, I could kick, stomp, and punch the living fuck out them if I had the inclination.

My dogs on the other hand are oblivious to my onslaught. Sometimes Fred bothers the shit out of me, and I'll take a swing at the fucker, and he barely flinches and then he starts jumping on me like I'm playing some sort of dog game.

My cat is my favorite, but you've got to watch her ears when you pet her because she'll go from purring to biting and clawing in a heartbeat, with the ears going back being your only clue she's had enough.



ArguingWAristotleTiff December 06, 2021 at 21:13 #628533
Quoting Hanover
A ram moves fast and once it knocks the shit out of you, it's likely to be able to keep at it.


I got knocked down by a Llama and the thing people don't understand is their power is in the legs and body not the neck and their face, weird I know. Once I was down from his first slam I tried to get up but my boot was stuck in muck, twisted and that bastard backed up, dropped his head and headed right for me and I almost died, literally. I knew if he hit me again I was gone but by the grace of God, the two Grand Perinese dogs made it into the paddock, circled me and I pulled myself up on one of them till I was on my feet again. One boot I made it out of the paddock.
I owe my life to those dogs.
Never trust a llama.
Hanover December 06, 2021 at 22:20 #628560
Those Great Pyrenees are amazing dogs. They will protect livestock with their life. I know it's not flattering they saw you as livestock, but you get the drift. Funny thing is that llamas are also used as livestock guardians, but I've heard llamas can be mean. I think they spit too.
Hanover December 06, 2021 at 22:25 #628564
frank December 06, 2021 at 22:56 #628587
crap
BC December 06, 2021 at 23:36 #628608
Reply to frank We'd all say 'crap' for sure, if we ran up against one of these. Not a good house dog, perhaps -- unless it is for a house you'd like to get rid of. A Kangal could clean out a crack house in no time at all.

Jamal December 07, 2021 at 03:24 #628671
I cycled past some cows and was chased by a Great Pyrenees. It was huge, and it was running faster than I was cycling. I was very intimidated. At the time, I wasn't familiar with Great Pyrenees or livestock guardians so I didn't know that so long as you back off they don't often actually bite, particularly if you're a human, which I was.

Since then I've been chased by many dogs, but that one was special.
Jamal December 07, 2021 at 03:27 #628672
Obviously they make good guard dogs, but the constant barking can get annoying.
T Clark December 07, 2021 at 14:04 #628787
Quoting jamalrob
but the constant barking can get annoying.


For a second, I thought you were talking about the members of the forum.
frank December 07, 2021 at 14:35 #628793
Quoting Bitter Crank
. A Kangal could clean out a crack house in no time at all.


That would give the schizophrenics something to think about.
frank December 07, 2021 at 14:43 #628794
Hayek says a centrally planned economy will become a dictatorship because inevitably, the planning will fall into the hands of the power hungry Stalin on the scene, or whoever.

I think that's probably true. But as I've explained earlier, free market economies do the same thing because when the government is used to thwart egalitarian aims, a super wealthy class is going to appear sooner or later. They'll essentially become an oligarchy.
Tobias December 07, 2021 at 17:22 #628821
Quoting frank
Hayek says a centrally planned economy will become a dictatorship because inevitably, the planning will fall into the hands of the power hungry Stalin on the scene, or whoever.

I think that's probably true. But as I've explained earlier, free market economies do the same thing because when the government is used to thwart egalitarian aims, a super wealthy class is going to appear sooner or later. They'll essentially become an oligarchy.


Very true... and a democracy will fall victim to a tiranny of the masses who elect whatever person or party appeals most their base emotions, pace Loewenstein. Aristotle was way ahead of its time in some ways...
john27 December 07, 2021 at 18:01 #628831
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

The llama wasn't mucking around.
unenlightened December 07, 2021 at 19:36 #628877
Quoting jamalrob
particularly if you're a human, which I was.


Not a full moon then, I assume.
BC December 07, 2021 at 20:44 #628892
Quoting jamalrob
particularly if you're a human, which I was.


So what species are you now?
Cartuna December 07, 2021 at 20:55 #628899
Quoting T Clark
For a second, I thought you were talking about the members of the forum.


:lol:

Don't forget their peeing! One over another...
baker December 07, 2021 at 21:15 #628914
Quoting jorndoe
32-Year-Old Independent Modern Woman [Lainey Molnar] Draws Comics On Her Observations About Society (30 New Pics) (Dec 1, 2021)


I really dislike this. So politically correct. The rral world doesn't work like that.
praxis December 07, 2021 at 21:45 #628924
Reply to baker

So for instance this isn't realistic?
User image
john27 December 07, 2021 at 21:48 #628927
Reply to praxis

Where's the guy version. You can't just leave us hanging like that.
praxis December 07, 2021 at 22:27 #628937
Reply to john27

I believe the suggestion is that society is generally more accepting of the following image than the inverse.

User image
god must be atheist December 07, 2021 at 22:31 #628940
Quoting baker
I really dislike this. So politically correct. The rral world doesn't work like that.


I actually found nothing that was unrealistic. Women get pregnant, not men. Condoms are uncomfy. Shit happens.

The problem that made it seem so bloody PC was the undercurrent that whatever happens, even if it's good or neutral, then all these are the faults of fat middle-aged balding white males.

Why is this happening?

We are living in the age of sinful misogyny. When are we going to finally hit the age of sinful androgyny? I bet by that time I'll have reincarnated as a gorgeous female, with no rights, privileges or voting rights.
john27 December 07, 2021 at 22:34 #628943
Quoting god must be atheist
I actually found nothing that was unrealistic. Women get pregnant, not men. Condoms are uncomfy. Shit happens.


Woah, spoilers.

edit: I think we're getting there, slowly but surely.
john27 December 07, 2021 at 22:43 #628947

I didn't get comic #17 with the lady holding the object LELO.

Anyone care to explain it?
god must be atheist December 07, 2021 at 22:49 #628949
Quoting john27
I didn't get comic #17


I never got beyond #3. The series made a statement, and the statement was true, but it:
1. Was not bashing religion and
2. It was not funny the least bit,
so I got bored with it.

Anyone can whine. Some do it better than others. I like to laugh, and whining, while it potentially can do it, is not generally laughter-inducing. If it's done right.

Like look at me doing it now. "Whyne, they are not funny, whine, I'm so not interested, whine." Go away, GMBA, just go away this time and not make a footprint of any kind in these parts.
god must be atheist December 07, 2021 at 22:56 #628951
Reply to john27 I think Molnar meant to say that sex trumps love. Love is a special relationship with a being that has autonomous will (notice how I stayed away from saying "free will".) Objects don't have will. Hence, sex without love is enjoyable only if you objectify your sex partner. What the young lady is saying is that you are basically okay with narcissistic self-love if and only if 1. you treat your partner with the same dignity as you give to a dildo and 2. you are a woman.
john27 December 07, 2021 at 23:04 #628956
Reply to god must be atheist


I'm sprawling out my brain, trying to wrap it around the subject the best I can;

alas, I still don't get it. You'll have to try harder than THAT to make me understand!


john27 December 07, 2021 at 23:08 #628958
Reply to god must be atheist

Actually hold on, don't tell me, I'm thinking.
john27 December 07, 2021 at 23:14 #628962
Reply to god must be atheist

OK. My only concern is this statement:

Quoting god must be atheist
2. you are a woman.


Can't men as well treat their sexual partner with such objectivity?
john27 December 07, 2021 at 23:15 #628963
Reply to praxis

Yeah, you were right. I didn't read the comic earlier ><.
praxis December 07, 2021 at 23:23 #628967
Quoting john27
I didn't get comic #17 with the lady holding the object LELO.

Anyone care to explain it?


Always name your sex toys before using them, or it's just a shameless product plug.
BC December 08, 2021 at 00:33 #628988
Quoting john27
alas, I still don't get it.


According to informed sources, spanish "lelo" translates to:

birdbrained, dopey, slow on the uptake, goofy, dimwit, dummy, fool.

In other words, not a compliment to the dildo. Dildo? Been around for 500 years, but nobody knows where it came from.

I didn't like her cartoons. Take her away.

Also, John27, you need to get out more.
jorndoe December 08, 2021 at 00:38 #628990
Right wing builds its own echo chamber (Axios; Dec 6, 2021)

Is there a move towards framing everything in terms of left versus right/conservatives? Are we seeing a reaction of sorts against the "social justice warriors", political correctness, feminism, perhaps gay rights or change in general, ...?

frank December 08, 2021 at 00:48 #628993
Reply to jorndoe

Hayek said there's no such thing as social injustice, so not new.
john27 December 08, 2021 at 01:10 #628999
Reply to Bitter Crank

Well, it was just such an unusual shape that I couldn't really...

Sigh. Lol.
Baden December 08, 2021 at 01:56 #629008
The steaming pile of human faeces that refers to itself as Boris Johnson is about to get flushed down the political toilet. :up:
god must be atheist December 08, 2021 at 03:00 #629023
Quoting Bitter Crank
In other words, not a compliment to the dildo. Dildo? Been around for 500 years, but nobody knows where it came from.


But we know where it's headed.
god must be atheist December 08, 2021 at 03:05 #629024
Quoting john27
Can't men as well treat their sexual partner with such objectivity?


Of course they can! Sex knows no genders. I merely said that in the spirit that the cartoons have been drawn, my impression is that the author has a bias. Men objectifying women - wrong (not spelled out by cartoon, perhaps I am unfairly vindictive, I am extrapolating, perhaps wrongfully), women objectifying men -- right.
T Clark December 08, 2021 at 03:42 #629033
Quoting Baden
The steaming pile of human faeces that refers to itself as Boris Johnson is about to get flushed down the political toilet.


With all the razzamatazz we have to deal with in American politics, how nice not to have to care what a politician does. I don't understand why the rest of the world can't do the same for Trump et. al. Yes, I understand the US is seen as the turd in the global swimming pool, but I'm not sure it matters so much who is directing the turd.
Amity December 08, 2021 at 09:23 #629092
Quoting Baden
The steaming pile of human faeces that refers to itself as Boris Johnson is about to get flushed down the political toilet. :up:


I hope but I'm not convinced that this will open voters' eyes to how they have been fooled from day one.
Some will vote for the Tory liars... no matter what. Just like the Trump supporters. It is sickening.

For anyone who hasn't been following events, BBC News Live is covering this.

This fucking Tory party partied while grieving relatives were unable to be with the dying. See, in particular, video of doctor's response:

[i]Earlier we heard from Dr Saleyha Ahsan who lost her father to Covid around this time last year.
Dr Ahsan, who has been caring for critically ill Covid patients, told BBC Breakfast that the leaked video of Downing Street staff laughing about a Christmas Party * has caused her to have flashbacks to a very difficult time.
Watch her moving interview with BBC Breakfast [ at 08:56 ] :[/i]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/59575030

* The video that has renewed pressure on Downing Street over the lockdown party last year takes the form of a mock press conference, held on 22 December 2020 with no journalists present.
[ see 07:35 BBC News Live ]

Baden December 08, 2021 at 10:51 #629102
Scum were literally laughing about breaking the rules while gravely warning the public they could be arrested if they (the public) did so.
Amity December 08, 2021 at 11:12 #629104
Quoting Baden
Scum were literally laughing about breaking the rules while gravely warning the public they could be arrested if they (the public) did so.


As always, above the rules and the law. This time caught on video.
Lying and laughing about breaking the rules. They take us for fools. Some of us are....

How many Tories knew about this - and kept quiet until now - when all of a sudden they act as if they care. This Tory government doesn't care about anything other than how they can retain power.
Watch the squirming spin at PMQs today...



Michael December 08, 2021 at 11:16 #629105
Quoting Baden
The steaming pile of human faeces that refers to itself as Boris Johnson is about to get flushed down the political toilet.


As if. Gone are the days when politicians resign because of impropriety, and I don't trust the rest to kick him out.
Michael December 08, 2021 at 11:17 #629106
Quoting god must be atheist
Men objectifying women - wrong (not spelled out by cartoon, perhaps I am unfairly vindictive, I am extrapolating, perhaps wrongfully), women objectifying men -- right.


Where did she objectify men?
Amity December 08, 2021 at 11:37 #629107
Quoting Michael
As if. Gone are the days when politicians resign because of impropriety, and I don't trust the rest to kick him out.


Indeed.
I expect not even a proper apology, rather an admonishment to the opposition and 'it's time to move on'. Lookee, here's a set of new rules >>> Covid Plan B...

unenlightened December 08, 2021 at 15:03 #629148
[quote=Bogus Johnson]I apologise for your deep feelings. I will ensure that the drugs market is opened up to more competition so you can afford to anaesthetise yourself more.[/quote]

Changeling December 08, 2021 at 15:33 #629151
Srap Tasmaner December 08, 2021 at 18:19 #629190
https://www.change.org/p/rename-the-williamsburg-bridge-as-the-sonny-rollins-williamsburg-bridge?s=01
baker December 08, 2021 at 19:34 #629209
Quoting frank
Hayek said there's no such thing as social injustice, so not new.


Has Hayek himself ever been on the losing end?
baker December 08, 2021 at 19:40 #629211
Quoting Amity
I hope but I'm not convinced that this will open voters' eyes to how they have been fooled from day one.
Some will vote for the Tory liars... no matter what. Just like the Trump supporters. It is sickening.


Quoting Baden
The steaming pile of human faeces that refers to itself as Boris Johnson is about to get flushed down the political toilet.


Nah.

The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule by their own authority, and my people love it this way.

Jer. 5:31
baker December 08, 2021 at 19:46 #629217
Quoting praxis
So for instance this isn't realistic?


Of course not. Even the one on the left doesn't have a bikini body. Or perhaps the joke is in suggesting that all three are bikini bodies.
praxis December 08, 2021 at 19:50 #629218
Reply to baker

The punchline is that there’s no term like ‘swim shorts body’.
Amity December 08, 2021 at 20:09 #629233
Lost for words. So I'll quote this:

By Rachel Clarke - a palliative care doctor and the author of Breathtaking: Inside the NHS in a Time of Pandemic

Guardian Headline

Talk of a No 10 Christmas party is an insult to the thousands who have died of Covid.

Last winter my NHS colleagues and I saw patients suffocating alone. The government has stuck two fingers up to them.

........

So let me remind you what we were doing in the NHS while members of the Downing Street elite seemingly took part in the revelry, or now refuse to condemn the revelry of others. On 18 December, there was palpable desperation in hospital corridors. We were smack in the middle of the most godawful rerun of Covid’s first wave. I use the word godawful deliberately. Pandemic casualties were flooding wards and ICUs. Patients suffocated as we scrambled to find iPads to connect them to their families. Some died because we had to ration ventilators. It was field medicine of the most brutal kind.

On 18 December, then, as we are told that members of government and advisers nibbled cheese and quaffed champers, my colleagues and I were palliating the symptoms of those too frail and weak to stand a chance of surviving Covid: older people, often, or those who were immunosuppressed. You know, those “expendable” members of the herd. Frequently, all we could do was give morphine to take away the terror of fighting for air. There is no sensation more frightening than being unable to breathe.


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/08/no-10-christmas-party-died-covid-winter-nhs-patients
frank December 08, 2021 at 22:28 #629298
Quoting baker
Hayek said there's no such thing as social injustice, so not new.
— frank

Has Hayek himself ever been on the losing end?


He was Austrian, so yes, and he wanted to keep it from happening again.
baker December 08, 2021 at 22:49 #629304
Quoting frank
He was Austrian, so yes, and he wanted to keep it from happening again.


How?? He believed that there is no such thing as social injustice!
john27 December 09, 2021 at 00:00 #629358
You know what I found interesting?

Take this sentence in french: Je n'ai aucune idée.

It's literal translation in english is: I don't have zero idea.

Actual translation is: I have no idea.

In french the n'ai and aucune serve as half negatives kind of.
Baden December 09, 2021 at 00:07 #629364
Reply to john27

And in English we should say "neither ... nor" not "neither ... or". Same basic idea because they work as a pair. And then there's dialect variation; e.g. where I come from, "I didn't do nothin' " fairly unambiguously means "I did nothing".
john27 December 09, 2021 at 00:18 #629368
Reply to Baden

Hm. Check this out:

-"I didn't do nothing"

-"I didn't do anything"

anything=nothing

Now thats weird.

Edit: Oh wait never mind, thats just a double negative. Dangit.
Sir2u December 09, 2021 at 00:54 #629379
Quoting Baden
"I didn't do nothin' " fairly unambiguously means "I did nothing".


Where I work, and I think in most schools, "I didn't do nothin' " means that the little bugger is guilty of something and is hoping we don't have proof it was him.
jorndoe December 09, 2021 at 06:32 #629426
— “I din't do nutn'.”
— «So you did something?»
— “No, I did not do anything.”
— «OK, you did nutn'.»

An Americanism?

Changeling December 09, 2021 at 14:38 #629501
Reply to jorndoe I believe that was originally a Brainpharte of the Danes.
frank December 09, 2021 at 14:56 #629504
Reply to jorndoe

No tengo nada.
Michael December 09, 2021 at 16:39 #629518
New Zealand to ban cigarettes for future generations

Anyone born after 2008 will not be able to buy cigarettes or tobacco products in their lifetime, under a law expected to be enacted next year.


Interesting approach.
T Clark December 09, 2021 at 18:54 #629536
Quoting Michael
Interesting approach.


Ah, yes. Prohibition. That's the ticket.
unenlightened December 09, 2021 at 19:43 #629547
A double negation is an affirmation, but what I say three times is true. This is the tyranny of mathematical thinking and it didn't[s]ought to be that way[/s] oughtn't be otherwise.
Noble Dust December 09, 2021 at 20:52 #629563
Reply to unenlightened

I don’t not understand what you didn’t say.
Tom Storm December 09, 2021 at 21:45 #629573
Quoting T Clark
Ah, yes. Prohibition. That's the ticket.


Exactly. Watch a black market and criminal trade in cigarettes take off.
BC December 09, 2021 at 23:50 #629595
Quoting Tom Storm
Watch a black market and criminal trade in cigarettes take off


Could well be. However, the prohibition will apply to young people, most of whom have either not smoked at all, or have not become addicted. Their reaction to prohibition is likely to be more compliant than one would expect from already-addicted adults.

Anti-smoking rules in the US (where free enterprise is holy gospel) have still managed to drive down rates of smoking to about 14% among adults; it's 8.3% for 18-24 year olds. Smoking is fair game for anything that reduces smoking--heavy taxes, limiting public places where one can smoke, policing the sale of tobacco, prohibition, and so on.

Cigarette smoking remains the leading cause of preventable disease and death in the United States. Cigarette smoking kills more than 480,000 Americans each year.1 In addition, the United States spends more than $300 billion a year on smoking-related illness, including more than $225 billion in direct medical care for adults and $156 billion in lost productivity.1, 2

In 2019, an estimated 14.0% (34.1 million) of U.S. adults were current cigarette smokers.


Alcohol prohibition laws were widely ignored during the 1920s, and enforcement was not strenuous. Still, alcohol consumption was reduced by 70% in the first years, and by 30% to 40% (of pre-prohibition levels) during the years of least compliance.

Would tobacco prohibition absolutely eliminate smoking? No. Would it further reduce the frequency of smoking? Definitely.
Banno December 10, 2021 at 00:31 #629611
Quoting T Clark
Prohibition


But it isn't. It's actually quite clever. The only folk who will complain in the first instance are those who sell cigarettes to children, which they shouldn't be doing; those addicted to cigarets will still be able to purchase them so no black market. A few years from now those still selling cigarets will notice a decline in their profits, and realise they should have moved to another business model.

Reply to Tom Storm, Reply to Bitter Crank, Reply to Michael, again, those addicted to cigarets will still be able to purchase them so no black market.
Tom Storm December 10, 2021 at 00:49 #629618
Reply to Banno Thanks. I have not followed this so my answer was founded in ignorance.
Tom Storm December 10, 2021 at 00:50 #629619
Reply to Bitter Crank I hear you I work in the area of addiction so you don't need to convince me about harm reduction models. I just dislike prohibition and interdiction models where they do operate.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 10, 2021 at 01:48 #629634
Quoting Banno
A few years from now those still selling cigarets will notice a decline in their profits, and realise they should have moved to another business model.


You don't suppose that it will be Cannabis that rolls in do you?
Banno December 10, 2021 at 02:03 #629635
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff They had a referendum last year, narrowly defeated: 50.7% to 48.4% in support. Medicinal use is already legal.

Michael December 10, 2021 at 09:33 #629694
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
Only three posts to go until I hit 3000. Was thinking I might let the forum decide what I write about for post number 3000. (I'm fun, dammit!)


Quoting Michael
You could write about how 3,000 is 1,8A0 in duodecimal, that duodecimal is objectively superior to decimal, that 1,8A0 isn't a significant number, and so that one's 3,000th post isn't worth celebrating.

I'm not fun.


However, one's 10,000th post is an exception to this. 10,000 is special. This is my 10,000th post.

You're welcome.
Srap Tasmaner December 10, 2021 at 14:25 #629806
Reply to Michael

I am honored.
jorndoe December 10, 2021 at 16:11 #629827
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 10, 2021 at 21:48 #629943
Quoting Banno
They had a referendum last year, narrowly defeated: 50.7% to 48.4% in support. Medicinal use is already legal.

Excellent news, Thank you. My youngest Indian has his final destination in New Zealand. :flower:

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 10, 2021 at 21:52 #629945
I am going to put this here until someone tells me I can't. Most of y'all know my name and what part of the world I live in so if the attorneys here suggest that I not leave it up, I will take it down and if you have any desire to see it I can DM it to you.
Enjoy :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 10, 2021 at 21:54 #629947
@jorndoe
Remind me what part of the ultra Northern USA you reside in :grin:
Tobias December 11, 2021 at 00:21 #629997
Hey Tiff, it looks beautiful, well made! I also think it wonderful that you have the passion to go through exams and the ordeal of having your work judged. It is especially beautiful since it is a study that prioritizes care for other people. This is sorely needed. I really admire the heart you put into it :)
Sir2u December 11, 2021 at 02:34 #630030
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Enjoy :flower:


I did enjoy. Congratulations on a job well done. :100: :ok:



Amity December 11, 2021 at 09:16 #630093
The Power of Presentations

Capitol attack panel obtains PowerPoint that set out plan for Trump to stage coup
Presentation turned over by Mark Meadows made several recommendations for Trump to pursue to retain presidency.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/dec/10/trump-powerpoint-mark-meadows-capitol-attack

This is already mentioned in the 'Donald Trump - General Conversations' thread - but it needs a special 'Shout Out !'

Quoting Wayfarer
It’s unbelievable that Trump could even be considered a candidate unless he admits Biden won - which of course he'll never do. I don’t understand why this is not being said more often.


Indeed.
This is even greater than the T person.
The original T thread has too much in it...
Important substance is in danger of being lost.

frank December 11, 2021 at 11:19 #630102
Reply to Amity

It sounds to me like the kind of thing that's been happening over and over for the last few thousand years.
Amity December 11, 2021 at 11:46 #630104
Reply to frank
Yeah, sounds like a big ''So what ?''
Unfortunately, this attitude is prevalent. Politicians lie. So what ? No biggie ?

Power Play in Politics, for sure, nothing new.
This is now. A clear and present danger to democracy.
What happens if we don't pay attention...and take action...hmmm....

Some don't see fascism until it comes knocking on their doors.
Take care.


frank December 11, 2021 at 12:00 #630107
Reply to Amity

I point out that history is repeating itself and you accuse me of blindness. :chin:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 11, 2021 at 16:20 #630147
Reply to Tobias Thank you dear friend!
I am not usually nervous about projects but when it is promoting myself? It starts to feel really awkward, but I have a group of friends, one of which you are, that are always willing to be honest with me and I absolutely treasure that.
Onward and UPwards! :party:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 11, 2021 at 16:23 #630148
Quoting Sir2u
I did enjoy. Congratulations on a job well done. :100:

Sir, I hope you know what your words mean to me, especially since you are an educator and can spot the same flaws I can. Yet somehow you are still impressed!
Life is messy but together there is no stopping us!
Thank you, dear friend~ :flower:

BC December 11, 2021 at 23:26 #630271
For those of a certain age who have fond memories (or fond fantasies) of the 1960s, here's a painting by Joseph Sherly Sheppard, American, born 1930: Go to link to see "Peace, Pot, The Pill & Prosperity" Apparently the artist disdained the Oxford comma.

BTW, who here eats persimmons? The blogger who posted Peace, Pot, etc, also posted this. One doesn't see persimmons in still life a lot. They are currently in season. If you want to try one, the persimmon should be very soft. When ripe they have a sweet flavor. Otherwise, the flesh is astringent.

User image
frank December 12, 2021 at 01:39 #630302
Reply to Bitter Crank

I have a bunch of persimmon trees. Mine are spherical, not oblong.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 12, 2021 at 01:50 #630306
I have tested positive for Covid-19.
Right in the middle of final exams :sad:
BC December 12, 2021 at 02:07 #630313
Reply to frank Two types show up in stores; less often a flattened round persimmon--called fuyu. (It's Japanese, not an abbreviation like bufu. The other kind are Hachiya, which are the type in the painting. I get the Hachiya. Supposedly the fuyu are not astringent when hard.

There is an American native variety, too, which is small.
L'éléphant December 12, 2021 at 02:56 #630323
Quoting Bitter Crank
If you want to try one, the persimmon should be very soft. When ripe they have a sweet flavor. Otherwise, the flesh is astringent.

I love persimmons. The ones on the picture, when ripe and soft are super sweet.
Noble Dust December 12, 2021 at 04:33 #630336
Quoting Bitter Crank
BTW, who here eats persimmons?


I only tried one once. The flesh was fairly soft but I was shocked by how tannic the skin was. I didn't dislike it, but didn't love it either. It probably wasn't a good one.
Changeling December 12, 2021 at 05:19 #630344
Quoting Bitter Crank
BTW, who here eats persimmons?


Lulo fruit is better tbh
User image
BC December 12, 2021 at 05:41 #630346
Reply to Noble Dust You should complain to the Persnickety Persimmon Promotion Board. They would be aghast that your first bite was your last. Soft, however, means pretty soft.

Reply to The Opposite Interesting. Send up a case and we'll check it out. Is this some sort of tomato progeny? "Ground cherries" which some gardeners in northern US grow, are also a tomato.

Changeling December 12, 2021 at 06:08 #630352
Quoting Bitter Crank
Is this some sort of tomato progeny?


I believe so, as is this:
User image

Tomate de Arbol
Noble Dust December 12, 2021 at 06:55 #630363
Quoting Bitter Crank
You should complain to the Persnickety Persimmon Promotion Board. They would be aghast that your first bite was your last. Soft, however, means pretty soft.


Supply me with an address to write a perturbed but detailed letter, and I'm on it.

Reply to The Opposite

Those look fire.
BC December 12, 2021 at 06:58 #630364
Reply to The Opposite Luscious to look at. Tomatoes are an interesting plant in an interesting family that includes tobacco, potatoes, eggplant, deadly nightshade (belladonna), paprika, chilies, jimson weed, and petunias.
frank December 12, 2021 at 11:23 #630402
Quoting Bitter Crank
There is an American native variety, too, which is small


I think that's what I have. They're inedible until after the first freeze. Then they're mushy and sweet. People used to make "pudding" with them, which was kind of like a brownie.
john27 December 12, 2021 at 15:35 #630474
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Dang, that sucks. Are you all right?
Hanover December 12, 2021 at 21:19 #630596
Who's the fairest of them all?User image
L'éléphant December 12, 2021 at 22:24 #630620
Quoting Hanover
Who's the fairest of them all?

Wow. Beautiful!
Hanover December 12, 2021 at 23:12 #630652
Quoting Michael
Interesting approach.


Laws banning drugs and alcohol pretty much eradicated them, so this ought to work.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 13, 2021 at 01:15 #630691
Quoting john27
Dang, that sucks. Are you all right?


Thank you for asking john, you are very kind. :flower:
My cheeks are burgundy with heat but I am not running a fever but I am also taking Tylenol every 4 hours because of the throbbing in my inner ears. I lost my sense of taste overnight and I can only taste salt at that moment, everything else doesn't taste just different textures. My Oxygen is bouncing between 95 and 97 but I am having to use my athsma inhaler as prescribed when I normally only use it once a day. I'm taking a bunch of different vitamins and added in a probiotic.
It's weird how I am suddenly tired and have to sleep. I am not capable of driving right now.
NicK and the kids are unvaccinated so they are staying on the opposite side of the house, separate bathrooms. We are blessed that way. Being in the middle of a divorce is not the best time but at least he is being kind and I am in return.
It doesn't change the desire for the divorce but our eldest Indian is allowing it to soften the anger and frustration that has been growing with his Dad, my soon to be ex.
Top it off with the septic tank being full or a pipe is blocked ... and I have the literal shit show that I have been barking about.
What can I do?
T Clark December 13, 2021 at 03:41 #630741
Quoting frank
I have a bunch of persimmon trees. Mine are spherical, not oblong.


Where I grew up, in southern Delaware, we had persimmon trees. The spherical fruit was about the diameter of a quarter. When they got soft, they would fall to the ground and splat. They were wonderfully designed for chucking at each other. From time to time, we also used them to chuck at cars, which lead to immediate running from the angry drivers.

I had heard that people ate persimmons, but I never felt any desire to try them myself.
Changeling December 13, 2021 at 04:45 #630758
Quoting T Clark
I had heard that people ate persimmons


That is generally what they are for
Srap Tasmaner December 13, 2021 at 05:03 #630761
Quoting T Clark
They were wonderfully designed for chucking at each other.


Exactly, though I believe some of my great aunts made jam out of them — but they either pickled or made jam out of everything, so...

No persimmon tree at school, but a whole row of crabapples. The ground was fair strewn with ammunition.
Tom Storm December 13, 2021 at 07:13 #630785
Quoting T Clark
I had heard that people ate persimmons, but I never felt any desire to try them myself.


I love the taste of a buttery soft persimmon. We used to grow them (the size of an apple) in a little orchard we had. We also grew the other fruit pictured above - 'tree tomatoes' or tamarillos (latin name cyphomandra betacea). Both fruits when eaten unripe leave you with a very numb, tingling mouth and hating yourself. A soft persimmon has a wonderful deep creamy sweet taste. Tamarillos are always bitter and benefit greatly from cutting up, sprinkling with brown sugar and resting in the fridge for 60 minutes before eating.
john27 December 13, 2021 at 10:48 #630819
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Well that sounds terrible. Sheesh.

Normally when I'm sick I go for the honey and milk route, but you can't taste anything so...

Do you have a sense of smell? Maybe some nice hot tea would be good.
baker December 13, 2021 at 11:24 #630825
Quoting unenlightened
A double negation is an affirmation, but what I say three times is true. This is the tyranny of mathematical thinking and it didn'tought to be that way oughtn't be otherwise.


Ha! Many currently used textbooks for logic were originally written in English, with the rules of English in mind. And like so many other textbooks, they are translated into local languages. In translation, chapters on negation (and some others) need to be rewritten, and to some extent reconceptualized, because some languages, as a rule, have double negation and the noun has a different case for when the according verb is in the affirmative than when the verb is in the negative.
baker December 13, 2021 at 11:29 #630826
Quoting Bitter Crank
Two types show up in stores; less often a flattened round persimmon--called fuyu. (It's Japanese, not an abbreviation like bufu. The other kind are Hachiya, which are the type in the painting. I get the Hachiya. Supposedly the fuyu are not astringent when hard.


The most common variety in stores in continental Europe are vanilla, or, apparently properly spelled "Vaniglia". They are not astringent when hard.

Where I live, it's too cold to grow them, the summers are not long and warm enough for them anymore. We used to be able to grow figs, but with the climate changes, they don't ripen anymore.
baker December 13, 2021 at 11:33 #630827
Quoting Hanover
Who's the fairest of them all?

:flower: :flower: :flower:
Cats love boxes, mirrors, and being the fairest.

Many black-seeming cats are actually dark brown.
unenlightened December 13, 2021 at 12:44 #630842
Reply to baker Neti neti!

Reply to Hanover [quote= Thefairest]Without even turning my head I see right through you, and all your fellow philosophers.[/quote]
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 13, 2021 at 15:31 #630869
Quoting john27
Well that sounds terrible. Sheesh.

Normally when I'm sick I go for the honey and milk route, but you can't taste anything so...

Do you have a sense of smell? Maybe some nice hot tea would be good.


It's got to be better than the full blown, unvaccinated COVID-19...I'm still here at the ranch waiting on a virtual Doctor's appointment.
Sense of smell is gone. I can't smell Vic's Vapor.
I can feel the warmth of what I am eating or drinking but nothing else. It makes it easy not to eat but these Vitamins and Tylenol are not happy on an empty tummy.
T Clark December 13, 2021 at 16:29 #630879
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
No persimmon tree at school, but a whole row of crabapples. The ground was fair strewn with ammunition.


Crabapples hurt. Persimmons splat and stain.
T Clark December 13, 2021 at 16:33 #630881
Quoting Tom Storm
I love the taste of a buttery soft persimmon.


I don't doubt they are good. I am certainly ruled by unreasonable childhood prejudices, e.g. I dreaded oysters as a child. Now I love them.
Hanover December 13, 2021 at 19:51 #630979
Quoting T Clark
I don't doubt they are good. I am certainly ruled by unreasonable childhood prejudices, e.g. I dreaded oysters as a child. Now I love them.


I love oysters as well, but I substitute Oreos for them.
Shawn December 13, 2021 at 20:21 #630997
Has, @Hanover adopted a pig yet?
Hanover December 13, 2021 at 20:57 #631014
Quoting Shawn
Has, Hanover adopted a pig yet?


I adopted some sausage. Eventually I will have the whole hog, at which time I will name it Elmo, and I will love it as if he were my own child.
T Clark December 13, 2021 at 21:00 #631015
Quoting Hanover
I love oysters as well, but I substitute Oreos for them.


Do you mean you replace the Oreo cream filling with oysters. My, that does sound good.
unenlightened December 13, 2021 at 21:06 #631019
I never make love to my dinner.
Shawn December 13, 2021 at 23:32 #631076
Quoting unenlightened
I never make love to my dinner.


I'm not quite mature for that yet.

I also get angry at myself for allowing myself to be happy and then becoming sad again.
Shawn December 13, 2021 at 23:37 #631078
Quoting Hanover
Has, Hanover adopted a pig yet?
— Shawn

I adopted some sausage. Eventually I will have the whole hog, at which time I will name it Elmo, and I will love it as if he were my own child.


It strikes me as strange that you'd want to do that. Just go for the pig.
Book273 December 14, 2021 at 00:07 #631090
Quoting T Clark
I had heard that people ate persimmons, but I never felt any desire to try them myself.


They aren't bad, but the idea of throwing them at cars and each other has merit too!
Book273 December 14, 2021 at 00:11 #631093
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff I understand that vitamin d and Zinc helps keep symptoms down. Might be worth considering if you are not already talking them. Hopefully it settles out well soon.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 14, 2021 at 01:48 #631131
Quoting Book273
understand that vitamin d and Zinc helps keep symptoms down. Might be worth considering if you are not already talking them. Hopefully it settles out well soon.

Thank you for your well wishes!!
I am taking both in double doses.
:flower:
Book273 December 14, 2021 at 01:51 #631135
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Looking forward to more disagreements with you, feel better eh.
Amity December 14, 2021 at 11:24 #631275
Quoting Shawn
I also get angry at myself for allowing myself to be happy and then becoming sad again.


:angry: :grin: :sad: :sparkle:

Ah well...life's a bit dizzy, huh ?
Talking of the highs and lows...

It seems I have posted 3,000 * times in 3yrs. At least, they weren't all in the same thread :monkey:
How many words, thoughts and emotions....hmmm.

Spinning in the air, flying before falling flat on the floor.

We'll rise up, like the day.

Andra Day - Rise Up [Acoustic Live Video]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmHfo_3EGFA

Light Up (Run) - Snow Patrol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eNAdz8LM5g

:heart:

* Oops, it's only 2,300 - way to go...


Outlander December 14, 2021 at 12:06 #631282
Reply to Hanover

Why do you have so many light switches? What do you live in a fun house?
T Clark December 14, 2021 at 16:13 #631327
Quoting Outlander
Why do you have so many light switches? What do you live in a fun house?


Yes, you're right. It's very suspicious. What are all these things he's plugging in in his bathroom? Very suspicious indeed. And what's up with the artsy-fartsy ye olde pewter faucet? Somethings not right here.
Hanover December 14, 2021 at 17:11 #631342
Quoting T Clark
Yes, you're right. It's very suspicious. What are all these things he's plugging in in his bathroom? Very suspicious indeed. And what's up with the artsy-fartsy ye olde pewter faucet? Somethings not right here.


Every bulb has its own switch and some switches turn off other switches. I like the control and the safety that offers. The cat was sitting on the manual with the schematic plans that remind me of what does what. The faucet is connected to the gas line and when it's opened up, the smell of natural gas fills the room. It helps me sleep.

Other than that, it's pretty much a normal house.
BC December 14, 2021 at 19:48 #631394
This NYT ad makes no sense whatsoever.

User image

a) If there is one thing Switzerland is NOT famous for, it's prairie.
b) Something else Switzerland isn't famous for is caviar. Swiss cheese, sure. And watches.
c) Why is the attraction of rubbing dead fish eggs into one's skin? Is smelling like a dead sturgeon the new in-thing in high society?
d) Is nighttime oil the same as midnight oil, like the kind one burns?
e) If I click on 'discover more' will I learn that fish gut exfoliants are the new thing?

Clearly the product development and advertising department have lost their minds. As for potential customers... Well, if you can afford such nonsense, you deserve it.
john27 December 14, 2021 at 20:07 #631406
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Welp. Only I thing I can do is send you good wishes.

Best of luck. :up:
Hanover December 14, 2021 at 20:35 #631422
I had Covid a while ago. I was really tired for a couple of weeks and had a fever. I watched Community reruns on Netflix and saw about 100 episodes. I can't watch that show ever again because it reminds me of Covid. We were house shopping at the time, and I rejected one house because my experience of it was tiredness.

That was pre-vaccinations. I've now had three shots. I'll get a 20th if it means not doing that again.
jorndoe December 14, 2021 at 21:12 #631439
User image
baker December 14, 2021 at 22:07 #631459
Quoting tim wood
Ok. At first, it was verbal. "No kitty, don't do that!" Then I whistled, then clapped my hands, then sprayed cat with some water. And no matter how quickly my response followed the scratching, it was clear the cat was not connecting my behavior with his own. So - in retrospect - it appears to me that I finally was able to convince the cat that the rug itself was/would be hurtful to the cat. So it steered clear. I have no evidence it understood anything about its scratching the rug - I can guess, but no evidence.


Why did you not get the cat a suitable scratchpost?

?
?
?
god must be atheist December 14, 2021 at 22:13 #631463
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff My go-to med when I show any signs of colds is Benadryl, an antihistamine that dries out the mucous. I wonder if it would be of any use to you.

I haven't had C10 yet, it's spreading very slowly where I live.

I wish you good luck and a quick and happy recovery. And an even quicker and happier divorce.
john27 December 14, 2021 at 22:24 #631466
is it wrong of me to get validation from the fact they are using the name John as the prime example in the Gettier thread?
Deleted User December 14, 2021 at 22:59 #631475
This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.
Shawn December 14, 2021 at 23:45 #631488
Reply to Amity

Hamity! :party:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 15, 2021 at 01:39 #631501
Quoting Book273
Looking forward to more disagreements with you, feel better eh.

Oh my gosh you are so sweet to look forward to more disagreements with me
If my older brother heard your suggestion he'd tackle you and ask you if you are freaking mad my man? :razz:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 15, 2021 at 01:42 #631502
Quoting Hanover
That was pre-vaccinations. I've now had three shots. I'll get a 20th if it means not doing that again.


The fever or the community?
I'm feeling like Osama Bin laden. I can go outside my bedroom to walk around my compound with the dogs not far behind, I eat one bowl of soup a day that has no taste or smell and then back into my room.
If I start to burn my own trash I hope you see the smoke signals :eyes:
Noble Dust December 15, 2021 at 04:22 #631556
Me reading half the threads on TPF these days:

BC December 16, 2021 at 05:02 #631809
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 16, 2021 at 14:50 #631885
Ughhhhhh people! I need to see, hug and squeeze people!!!!
I'm losing it with boredom :grimace:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 16, 2021 at 15:02 #631889
Pacing....
Anyone here ever taken steroids?
My Doctor put me on some to keep secondary ills at bay and I can see why athletes use it to get pumped up for a game.
Hanover December 16, 2021 at 15:42 #631897
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Pacing....
Anyone here ever taken steroids?
My Doctor put me on some to keep secondary ills at bay and I can see why athletes use it to get pumped up for a game.


Prednisone does that.

I had to give my dog prednisone once and he peed rivers. It was pretty impressive actually. He would stand there for like 5 minutes just going and going and going.

Can you do that? Not the standing part, but the going and going and going part. If you can, that's pretty cool.
frank December 16, 2021 at 15:44 #631898
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Probably the boredom is making it worse. Can you take a walk or something?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 16, 2021 at 15:49 #631899
Quoting Hanover
Prednisone does that.

I had to give my dog prednisone once and he peed rivers. It was pretty impressive actually. He would stand there for like 5 minutes just going and going and going.

Can you do that? Not the standing part, but the going and going and going part. If you can, that's pretty cool.


Yes, I "can piss like a Russian race horse" even though I don't know a thing about a Russian race horse specifically.

My cheeks are burgundy and I am running a little fever. Still can't taste or smell anything, so if you are available to cook..... :razz:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 16, 2021 at 16:03 #631903
Quoting frank
Probably the boredom is making it worse. Can you take a walk or something?


I am grateful that I am able to text a phone out of my bed but solitary confinement is criminal.
If you remember only one of my Indians and I are vaccinated so NicK and my eldest Indian and his fiance are not vaccinated So blessed we are to have three acres to walk around, the ranch house is set up with the master bedroom and bathroom are one at the North side and the other bedrooms are on the South side with a full bath, so seperation is not difficult.
The fact that Nick and I are getting divorced already had physical distance in place. After filming me while I was still in my nightgown getting ready to go to the ngo I was working at?
I asked for him to leave the marital bed and my attorneys are aware of both.
Anyway.....I'm not able to make it around the three acres without having to sit down and rest... like 20 minutes rest where 2 days ago I could do it.
My ox levels started to drop last night from between 95-98 to 87 as a low and bounced around 90-93 for a couple hours.
Mom showed concern in the frequency of her texts even though she is telling me not to get obsessed with the numbers. She was texting asking how I am feeling and what is my O2 level.
frank December 16, 2021 at 18:18 #631929
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Since you were vaccinated, it should start clearing out soon. Asshole virus.
Hanover December 16, 2021 at 21:40 #631995
Speaking of illnesses, one of my goats got some bacteria that turned him into a shit fountain. His usual neat pellet excrement turned into the likes of the muddy Mississippi, with even an antebellum paddle boat meandering lazily down the center of it. We took him up to the University of Georgia vet school, and $1,000 later he returned to his normal self, although I did keep a shovel by my side in the event a burial suddenly came in order.

I spent this past Sunday scrubbing down his hindquarters, removing the evidence of the shit monster that had lodged inside his belly.
frank December 16, 2021 at 23:59 #632036
Quoting Hanover
and $1,000 later


wow
T Clark December 17, 2021 at 00:02 #632037
Reply to Shawn

Here is the t-shirt I'm giving my son's girlfriend for Christmas:

User image
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 00:04 #632039
Quoting Shawn
I actually share my food with my pig, you brute.


So, yeah., goats eat grass and hay and have multiple stomachs to digest it, so unless we're going to share Bermuda grass, the goats and I are going to have to dine separately.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 00:05 #632041
Quoting frank
wow


I know. The fee just kept going and going and the wife is really attached, so Biscuit got the best care of any farm animal ever.
frank December 17, 2021 at 00:07 #632042
Reply to Hanover

You're married?
T Clark December 17, 2021 at 00:09 #632043
Quoting frank
You're married?


@Hanover said "the wife" not "my wife."
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 00:13 #632044
Quoting frank
You're married?


Not sure why you're surprised. I'm pretty irresistible.

My proof:

User image
frank December 17, 2021 at 00:24 #632045
Shawn December 17, 2021 at 03:51 #632093
Reply to Hanover

Who the fuck deleted my comment?

It was meant as a jest on the topic of dining that @unenlightened started about making love to his dinner.

Quoting unenlightened
I never make love to my dinner.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 04:08 #632098
Quoting Shawn
Who the fuck deleted my comment?


Not me. I didn't see your comment, so I can't comment upon that.
L'éléphant December 17, 2021 at 04:15 #632099
Quoting Hanover
although I did keep a shovel by my side in the event a burial suddenly came in order.

:flower:
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 04:25 #632102
Reply to L'éléphant Always have a plan B.
L'éléphant December 17, 2021 at 04:29 #632103
Quoting Hanover
Always have a plan B.

Luck smiles at those who welcome both alternatives - undesirable as it is.
Jamal December 17, 2021 at 05:55 #632117
Quoting Shawn
Who the fuck deleted my comment?


It was me, and I confess to abusing my powers. I detest animated gifs at the best of times. I can't read anything if I can see an animated gif somewhere on the page. On this occasion I was on my phone. I don't know how to disable animated gifs in a phone browser, and it's difficult to make it so that it's not visible by resizing the window or whatever. I was trying to read the comment above yours (possibly Hanover's goat anecdote) and found it impossible. I lost patience and opted to remove the offending post, because I could. Sorry about that.
john27 December 17, 2021 at 10:16 #632150
Reply to Hanover

Fake news.
god must be atheist December 17, 2021 at 10:29 #632154
Reply to john27 Anyone can fake an orgasm, but very few can fake news. I mean, believably.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 11:35 #632164
Quoting john27
Fake news.


The doubt regarding my marriage is concerning, so I obtained the following statement:

"Good morning, this is Mrs. Hanover. Please let this message confirm I am betrothed to Hanover. I would have offered this proof earlier, but I am exhausted by the perfect pleasuring he consistently provides. He has found that elusive balance between animalistic aggression and princely sophistication. I would also ask that @Shawn not post a gif meme near this post because it apparently distracts @jamalrob. If he finds himself distracted by bird chirps, pen clicks, or dog barks as well, maybe he should take an online adhd test."

So there you have it. Proof certain. Offering details only an intimate partner would know and offering a gentle ribbing to our leader.

How I love that woman!
Jamal December 17, 2021 at 11:44 #632165
Quoting Hanover
maybe he should take an online adhd test


I just took one:

User image

What drugs do I get?
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 11:51 #632169
Quoting jamalrob
What drugs do I get?


I think Adderall. Any teenager should be able to score you some.
john27 December 17, 2021 at 12:28 #632173
Reply to god must be atheist

Hey, I never said Hanover wasn't capable. Quite the contrary, in fact.
Jamal December 17, 2021 at 13:59 #632194
Quoting Hanover
I think Adderall. Any teenager should be able to score you some.


Cool. Now I feel like I might be able to turn my life around. Thanks to Mrs Hanover.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 17, 2021 at 15:13 #632211
Quoting frank
Since you were vaccinated, it should start clearing out soon. Asshole virus.


I'm sooo done with this virus!
I'm freezing here and the rest in the ranch are worried about turning on the heat because it might travel through the air handler. :brow:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 17, 2021 at 15:15 #632212
This is never going to end!!!!!!
:shade:
BTW if anyone sees my perky, sassy heathy self out and about in the world beyond my reach, please tell her to go home because I need her.

The school just called and said that I need to ship back my books as they are due. I explained my inability to do so AND why and they suggest if I have a friend or family member, they can bring them back on Monday. ???
What part of this are they unaware of?
She said well you are welcome to ship them....
I can't get to a shipping store nor do I think the shipping store with a line out the door would appreciate me being there.
Fer ducks sake
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 17, 2021 at 15:28 #632215
Quoting god must be atheist
Anyone can fake an orgasm, but very few can fake news. I mean, believably.


Hmmmm.... how did you get ahold of the Woman's playbook of life? :chin:
frank December 17, 2021 at 15:32 #632220
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'm freezing here and the rest in the ranch are worried about turning on the heat because it might travel through the air handler.


I think it's been known to do that. Space heater off Amazon?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 17, 2021 at 15:36 #632223
Quoting frank
I think it's been known to do that. Space heater off Amazon?


Really? REALLY?
Fer ducks sake.... muttering about needing a space heater in Arizona...I haven't needed the house heater in 2 years.
Why punish the ....oh nevermind....I'm cranky and I am sorry.
Except about @Benkei avatar :joke:
T Clark December 17, 2021 at 16:28 #632231
Quoting Hanover
So there you have it. Proof certain.


"Betrothed" means "engaged," not "married." Perhaps you should have a talk with your fiancée. Do you have children? If so, perhaps you should have a talk with them. If not, perhaps you should have a talk with the goats.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 16:55 #632241
Quoting T Clark
"Betrothed" means "engaged," not "married." Perhaps you should have a talk with your fiancée. Do you have children? If so, perhaps you should have a talk with them. If not, perhaps you should have a talk with the goats.


I guess you're right. I used the wrong word. I should have said "hitched." My kids aren't by her, so they don't need a talking to. They got the whole story already.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 17:00 #632244
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Really? REALLY?
Fer ducks sake.... muttering about needing a space heater in Arizona...I haven't needed the house heater in 2 years.
Why punish the ....oh nevermind....I'm cranky and I am sorry.


My wife, since we're talking about her, keeps the thermostat on 63, so it's freezing in my house, although she claims to be burning up. Think something's up? Nah. Nothing that won't pass.
john27 December 17, 2021 at 17:06 #632246
Wait, if an apostrophe is used to take out a letter in a word( a contraction), whats the apostrophe in won't used for?

won't= wo not?
frank December 17, 2021 at 18:00 #632260
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Check your temperature.
god must be atheist December 17, 2021 at 18:17 #632268
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hmmmm.... how did you get ahold of the Woman's playbook of life? :chin:
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff most of the time I get faulted for not reading my wife's mind, and the one time I do, it's again my fault.

Then again, you're not my wife.

Or maybe I misread the tone... was this a compliment? or perhaps a neutrally loaded question.

I don't like being neutered, either.

In fact there is very little in life that I like. (JOKING! I like ice cream.)
BC December 17, 2021 at 18:20 #632271
Reply to john27 Won't is a contraction of woll not. The "woll" spelling isn't as old as I thought it was -- 16th/17th centuries.

Why bother with contractions? It might have had something to do with the early printing. Paper was expensive, and a printer could perhaps get one more word on a line by contracting appropriate words (my off-the-cuff probably-not-the-case theory).

One un-cited source said that the pronunciation of "not" changed in the 16th century, becoming easier to contract. True? I do not know. At any rate, contractions were limited to spoken English and were not accepted in writing guides until recently (20th century). Some persnickety types avoid using contractions in writing.
john27 December 17, 2021 at 18:23 #632272
Reply to Bitter Crank

Thank god for contractions then. Woll not just sounds silly.
Baden December 17, 2021 at 18:31 #632275
Quoting Bitter Crank
At any rate, contractions were limited to spoken English ... until recently (20th century)


'Tis bollocks, sirrah.
BC December 17, 2021 at 18:38 #632278
User image
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 18:57 #632285
Quoting Bitter Crank
Some persnickety types avoid using contractions in writing.


I'd've never've known people'd've talked so long winded once upon a time.
Hanover December 17, 2021 at 19:08 #632291
Quoting Bitter Crank
At any rate, contractions were limited to spoken English and were not accepted in writing guides until recently (20th century). Some persnickety types avoid using contractions in writing.


But see:

"No discovery cou’d have been made more happily for deciding all controversies concerning ideas,
than that abovemention’d, that impressions always take the precedency of them, and that every idea,
with which the imagination is furnish’d, first makes its appearance in a correspondent impression.
These latter perceptions are all so clear and evident, that they admit of no controversy; tho’ many of
our ideas are so obscure, that ’tis almost impossible even for the mind, which forms them, to tell
exactly their nature and composition. Let us apply this principle, in order to discover farther the
nature of our ideas of space and time. "

A Treatise of Human Nature, David Hume, 1739.

Of course, he was speaking Scottish, not English.
Baden December 17, 2021 at 19:35 #632299
Reply to Hanover

You can add Shakespeare to that. Of course, he was speaking Shakespearean and not English.
john27 December 17, 2021 at 19:38 #632301
Quoting Hanover
than that abovemention’d, that impressions always take the precedency of them, and that every idea,
with which the imagination is furnish’d


Does that count? I mean his literally just using apostrophes for aesthetics at this point. "abovementioned" and "furnished".
Baden December 17, 2021 at 19:38 #632302
What's the quote...

To be or not to be, that is the question, innit?
Baden December 17, 2021 at 19:44 #632303
Reply to john27

Nah, they're everywhere. Sounds like BC got wiki'd.
T Clark December 17, 2021 at 20:43 #632321
Quoting Bitter Crank
Some persnickety types avoid using contractions in writing.


Yes, including Spock and Data.
BC December 17, 2021 at 23:27 #632398
Quoting Baden
Sounds like BC got wiki'd.


No, my source wasn't that good -- it was an unattributed opinion provided by Google. Google is good for some but not all things. And I did caution the careful reader about the opinion:

Quoting Bitter Crank
True? I do not know.


Quoting T Clark
Yes, including Spock and Data.


Both of whom were very formal in their interactions. My personal opinion is this: In official and/or formal writing, contractions are inappropriate. Otherwise, measure the effect against your intent and proceed accordingly. If you are writing great speeches, it is best to avoid them.

The printed copy of Lincoln's Gettysburg address does not use any contractions. I inserted the contraction for the underlined words. Do you think it sounds as good in that context?

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth, upon this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived, and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting-place for those who here gave their lives, that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not [can't] dedicate, we can not consecrate we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never [can't or can't ever] forget what they did here.

It is for us, the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here, have, thus far, so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they here gave the last full measure of devotion that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.


BC December 17, 2021 at 23:32 #632400
Quoting Hanover
I'd've never've known people'd've


Now, now, let's not get carried away.
Sir2u December 18, 2021 at 00:24 #632414
Quoting john27
Wait, if an apostrophe is used to take out a letter in a word( a contraction), whats the apostrophe in won't used for?


https://www.etymonline.com/search?q=won%27t

https://www.etymonline.com/word/will?ref=etymonline_crossreference
john27 December 18, 2021 at 01:07 #632434
Reply to Sir2u

I guess I'll check these links out. Wynot.
T Clark December 18, 2021 at 02:39 #632468
Lesser known quotes from more or less famous people:

  • When you make a man into a monkey, that monkey's gonna monkey around. - Charles Darwin
  • Hey, Iscariot. You seem to have a lot of money. You can pay for dinner. - Jesus Christ
  • I know nothing, nothing. - Sgt. Hans Schultz misquoting Socrates

T Clark December 18, 2021 at 02:52 #632474
Quoting Bitter Crank
Both of whom were very formal in their interactions.


If I remember correctly, Data was unable to use contractions. That's one way you could tell him from his evil twin, Lore.

Quoting Bitter Crank
In official and/or formal writing, contractions are inappropriate. Otherwise, measure the effect against your intent and proceed accordingly. If you are writing great speeches, it is best to avoid them.


Not using contractions makes text read as formal, and also stilted. That may be a good thing for formal or technical writing. Your example from "The Gettysburg Address" is a good one. It is trying to seem dignified but eloquent and feeling. In most writing I think contractions are fine. They make writing seem less formal, more conversational. I use what feels and sounds right.
Hanover December 18, 2021 at 03:07 #632481
Quoting T Clark
In most writing I think contractions are fine. They make writing seem less formal, more conversational. I use what feels and sounds right.


An opposite example is when you contract "have"when it's a main verb. It's makes you sound of high society, if not somewhat retarded.

"I've a diamond ring, would you like to see it?"

"You've a diamond ring? Fascinating!"

"I'ven't a diamond ring!"

You'ven't a diamond ring? Fucking pauper!"

T Clark December 18, 2021 at 03:24 #632485
Quoting Hanover
"I've a diamond ring, would you like to see it?"


I've a u'vula. Would you like to see it?
Hanover December 18, 2021 at 03:26 #632486
I just added a couple more above to my last post. They're good ones. I didn't want you to miss them.
T Clark December 18, 2021 at 04:47 #632513
Quoting Hanover
I just added a couple more above to my last post. They're good ones. I didn't want you to miss them.


I've'nt a u'vulan't. Wouldn't you like to not see it.

jorndoe December 18, 2021 at 06:29 #632531
MIT Professor Warns That Cartels Could Use “Slaughterbots” to Evade Justice
This military tech may soon be available to the public.
by Noor Al-Sibai
Dec 13, 2021

User image

BC December 18, 2021 at 06:33 #632532
Quoting T Clark
In most writing I think contractions are fine.


"Yeah, they're OK, ya know."
Paul December 18, 2021 at 08:28 #632550
T Clark:If I remember correctly, Data was unable to use contractions. That's one way you could tell him from his evil twin, Lore.


Except for the countless episodes where Data uses contractions and nobody mentions it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY1KdQNodN0

It never made the slightest bit of sense to pretend that contractions, of all things, are the challenge for machines using human languages.
god must be atheist December 18, 2021 at 12:55 #632582
Quoting john27
Woll not just sounds silly.


I woll not eat or say any woll nots. I am allergic to them. And I also know that walnuts do not grow on walls. And I shall not discuss Wally's nuts. Or discuss discoes, or any discus. Disgusting!
john27 December 18, 2021 at 14:27 #632592
Quoting god must be atheist
I woll not eat or say any woll nots. I am allergic to them. And I also know that walnuts do not grow on walls. And I shall not discuss Wally's nuts. Or discuss discoes, or any discus. Disgusting!


:clap:
T Clark December 18, 2021 at 15:09 #632601
Quoting Bitter Crank
"Yeah, they're OK, ya know."


I guess I miss your point. The only contraction here is "they're." Anyway, here on the forum we don't say "yeah" for some reason. We say "yep."
john27 December 18, 2021 at 15:36 #632606
Reply to T Clark

Quoting T Clark
I guess I miss your point. The only contraction here is "they're." Anyway, here on the forum we don't say "yeah" for some reason. We say "yep."


Yeah.
unenlightened December 18, 2021 at 15:45 #632607
Quoting john27
Does that count? I mean his literally just using apostrophes for aesthetics at this point. "abovementioned" and "furnished".


I surmise that the ed suffix was pronounc'd at the time as an extra syllable as standard, and contracted for flow. Such apostrophe'd d's would be like Yorkshire t's as "when t'shit hits t'fan".

T Clark December 18, 2021 at 15:56 #632610
Quoting Bitter Crank
"Yeah, they're OK, ya know."


Since the start of this discussion, I've been paying attention to my own writing here on the forum. Sometimes I use contractions and some times I don't. In that last sentence, I could have written "and sometimes I do not." The contraction seems better to me. I guess that's an aesthetic judgement. It's true to my voice. The way I talk and the way I think.
unenlightened December 18, 2021 at 16:05 #632612
Threads I have not started.

To what extent are legs and standing identical?

How useful is the concept of useful?

What are beans?

What is the title of this thread?

Is philosophy an ice cream flavour?

If I made the first one, I could have a poll in it and folks could vote for the one they wanted me to start. But if I did, and that one didn't win, I'd fall into a performative contradiction and have to become a disciple of Graham Priest.
john27 December 18, 2021 at 16:07 #632613
Quoting unenlightened
What are beans?


Im particularly interested in this one.
john27 December 18, 2021 at 16:11 #632614
Reply to unenlightened

I d'nno, I tried sounding it out and it seems the same.

abovementioned=(Ah-bov-men-tchynd)
abovemention'd=(Ah-bov-men-tchynd)
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 17:39 #632622
Quoting unenlightened
What are beans?


@Tobias
Might you remember the line of literature that asks similar oddities?
All I can recall from your words is " snowden's"
But it was like who is Spain?
Grrr to COVID brain
frank December 18, 2021 at 18:47 #632633
Quoting unenlightened
What are beans?


A bean is a thing
Every bean can be divided infinitely,
therefore even if there were beans, you couldn't get one in your mouth
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 19:12 #632639
@Tobias
I managed to find it
Who is Spain?
Why is Hitler?
Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?
Joseph Heller, Catch 22
I absolutely love it :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 19:13 #632641
I can smell Hazelnut body wash.... I hope it all comes back
unenlightened December 18, 2021 at 19:21 #632645
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hurrah! here's to wet dog and fresh hay and coffee.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 19:25 #632646
Yippee :party:
unenlightened December 18, 2021 at 19:32 #632648
Reply to john27 Ah-bov-men-tchyn-ed) as in Bless-ed not Blest. as in op-ed not opt.

Quoting frank
What are beans?
— unenlightened

A bean is a thing


Come now, don't pretend you don't know the difference between singular and plural!

What amounts to a hill o' beans?
How many beans make five?
What do bean counters count?
BC December 18, 2021 at 20:10 #632655
Reply to god must be atheist Etymology. The common name walnut derives from Old English wealhhnutu, literally 'foreign nut' (from wealh 'foreign' + hnutu 'nut'), because it was introduced from Gaul and Italy. The Latin name for the walnut was nux Gallica, "Gallic nut".

So, there you have it.
BC December 18, 2021 at 20:16 #632656
Quoting unenlightened
Is philosophy an ice cream flavour?


Not so far, but it is a disgusting cosmetics brand:

User image
BC December 18, 2021 at 20:40 #632662
Reply to T Clark Languages are changeable and inconsistent. I'm fine with contractions in speech and text alike. There's neither virtue nor fault in them, it's just common practice. The Elements of Style be damned (on this particular issue).

I do object to people writing "there" when they mean "they're". But then, it was clumsy of English to come up with there, their, and they're in the first place.

Quoting unenlightened
I surmise that the ed suffix was pronounc'd at the time as an extra syllable as standard, and contracted for flow.


"Wicked" maintains the pronouns't 'ed' suffix when referencing Donald and Boris, but contracts the pronunciation when referencing the sweatwicking function of fabric: "My sopping wool underwear hasn't wicked away a drop of sweat." "Learned" can be either learnéd or learnd, but how many fucking peasants hear "learnéd" when they read to themselves?
god must be atheist December 18, 2021 at 20:53 #632664
Reply to Bitter Crank Etymology is a tricky subject for us, Hungarians. I still don't know, only have an inkling, where most basic words in my language come from, and if yes, my inkling is right, I don't have any examples.

I think "szarny", "teper", "borong", "esik", etc. words come from the time when Hungarians were vassal peoples to some Turkish hordes in the times of mass migration, concluding in the ninth century; but they did not teach us that in school. I have nothing to go by, to learn about it, other than the book "A magyar nyelv tortenelme", (History of the Hungarian Language) which I am too lazy to read.

BC December 18, 2021 at 21:02 #632667
Reply to god must be atheist For some odd reason, my interest in etymology didn't catch fire until I was in my 40s, and working in an AIDS prevention project that had absolutely nothing to do with etymology. Majoring in English 20 years earlier did nothing for etymological interest. The older I get the more interesting it becomes. Probably something to do with old age, infirmity, and senility.

The linguistic history of central and Eastern Europe is terra incognita, as is its rich history.
Hanover December 18, 2021 at 21:04 #632668
Reply to T Clark I say yeppers. Always have. Always will.
BC December 18, 2021 at 21:05 #632669
Reply to Hanover Not "yowsah, boss"?

Hanover December 18, 2021 at 21:11 #632672
Reply to Bitter Crank When surprised, I say "zoinks!"
T Clark December 18, 2021 at 21:59 #632687
Quoting god must be atheist
Etymology is a tricky subject for us, Hungarians. I still don't know, only have an inkling, where most basic words in my language come from, and if yes, my inkling is right, I don't have any examples.


Hungarian is an interesting language, one of the few in Europe that aren't Indo-Aryan from India. Apparently the language originated in northern Siberia and its speakers migrated westward to northern Scandinavia. The Lapp, Finnish, and Estonian languages are related. Then somehow they also slipped into the central Europe to be surrounded by Romance, Germanic, and Slavic language speakers.
BC December 18, 2021 at 22:30 #632696
Quoting T Clark
Then somehow they also slipped into the central Europe


They didn't "somehow slip into central Europe"; they did it the old-fashioned, time-tested time-honored way--they invaded Europe, starting in the 9th century. It wasn't a good time for Charlemagne's descendants. The Arabs menaced Europe from the South, the Norse from the North, and the Hungarians from the East. Just about everybody was attacking Europe but the Narragansetts.

Quoting T Clark
one of the few in Europe that aren't Indo-Aryan


Don't forget Basque--an isolated language unrelated to any other.
Changeling December 18, 2021 at 22:43 #632703
Quoting unenlightened
What amounts to a hill o' beans?
How many beans make five?
What do bean counters count?


User image
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 22:47 #632705
Quoting T Clark
Hungarian is an interesting language, one of the few in Europe that aren't Indo-Aryan from India. Apparently the language originated in northern Siberia and its speakers migrated westward to northern Scandinavia. The Lapp, Finnish, and Estonian languages are related. Then somehow they also slipped into the central Europe to be surrounded by Romance, Germanic, and Slavic language speakers.


I'm 25% Hungarian and my Grandmother who was 100% Hungarian bought a family grouping of burial slots in the Queen of Heaven Mosuloem as soon as they opened up the Hungarian Patron of Saints within the wing. Beautiful place to be and although it might seem odd, I really enjoy spending time there. Not just with my family but the history of total strangers and how they are treated after death says a lot about who they might have been.
Anyway, I am a wicked cook if you are ever up for a Hungarian recipe cook off.
I hear @Hanover is a pretty good judge of food though I am still not sure about the goat over the fence thing.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 18, 2021 at 22:49 #632707
My lips are on fire and this is the 10th day of COVID :rage:
Banno December 18, 2021 at 23:52 #632730
Where's @TheMadFool?
Hanover December 18, 2021 at 23:53 #632731
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
My lips are on fire and this is the 10th day of COVID :rage:


Find yourself just the right fireman to quench those fiery lips.
BC December 18, 2021 at 23:56 #632732
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
My lips are on fire


That's great! Here's a song about it -- Anna Netrebko singing "My Lips Kiss With Such a Fire" at a Last Night at the Proms concert a few years back.

Reply to god must be atheist

The hot lips piece is by Franz Lehár, an Austro-Hungarian composer.

Banno December 18, 2021 at 23:57 #632733
Tobias December 19, 2021 at 00:03 #632736
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Ohhh yes, yes Tiff. But it is not just a line of questioning without rhyme or reason. "Ou sont les Neigedens d' entan?" If you know that, you would certainly know a lot. You would know more than colonel Cathcart knows, or General Peckham knows, of even Yossarian knows for that matter....
BC December 19, 2021 at 00:10 #632739
@Banno, @Hanover, & @ArguingWAristotleTiff -- I require the fireman's services a lot more than Tiff does. Anybody would pant after such a stud with a Roman fire hose!
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 19, 2021 at 00:38 #632744
Quoting Hanover
Find yourself just the right fireman to quench those fiery lips.


Mmm I do believe he could help me out with my lips on fire :fire:
.@Bitter Crank take a number boomer :razz:

@Banno Thank you for the firm distraction~
See why we are friends? :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 19, 2021 at 00:42 #632745
Quoting Tobias
Ohhh yes, yes Tiff. But it is not just a line of questioning without rhyme or reason. "Ou sont les Neigedens d' entan?" If you know that, you would certainly know a lot. You would know more than colonel Cathcart knows, or General Peckham knows, of even Yossarian knows for that matter....


After the last page of this thread I am swooning~ :love:
You have the avatar up now that you had when we met at the other place. I remember the Green Room fondly. :flower:
frank December 19, 2021 at 01:10 #632748
Reply to unenlightened

Did you know Pythagoras died because he refused to cross a bean field? True story.
Hanover December 19, 2021 at 01:26 #632753
Quoting frank
Did you know Pythagoras died because he refused to cross a bean field? True story.


It was a 50' X 50' field. From the NW to SE corner the distance was the square root of 50x50 + 50x50. True story, or that's my theorem at least.
frank December 19, 2021 at 02:14 #632761
Reply to Hanover Strangely, Pythagoras didn't discover that formula. The Egyptians had known about it for centuries. He just popularized it.
Hanover December 19, 2021 at 02:17 #632762
Quoting frank
Strangely, Pythagoras didn't discover that formula. The Egyptians had known about it for centuries. He just popularized it.
now


Actually, you're thinking about the Pharaoh. He was just an enslaving dick who didn't know shit about math.
frank December 19, 2021 at 02:20 #632764
Reply to Hanover

Plus he was bald.
Amity December 19, 2021 at 09:00 #632791
Reply to Banno
Oh Dear God. Whatever turns you on, I suppose :roll:
That facial expression with the soft, pouty lips - yuck.

It's all in the Kiss, yeah baby :fire:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uZQFOfMSfY

You don't have to be beautiful
To turn me on
I just need your body, baby
From dusk till dawn
You don't need experience
To turn me out
You just leave it all up to me
I'll show you what it's all about

You don't have to be rich to be my girl
You don't have to be cool to rule my world
Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
I just want your extra time and your KISS

[b]You got to not talk dirty, baby
If you wanna impress me
You can't be too flirty, mama
I know how to undress me
I want to be your fantasy
Maybe, you could be mine
You just leave it all up to me
We could have a real good time[/b]

You don't have to be rich to be my girl
You don't have to be cool to rule my world
Ain't no particular sign I'm more compatible with
I just want your extra time and your KISS

I think I'd better dance now.....

Women, not girls, rule my world
I said they rule my world
Act your age woman, not your shoe size
Maybe we could do the twirl?
You don't have to watch Dynasty
To have an attitude
You just leave it all up to me
My love will be your food

You don't have to be rich to be my girl
You don't have to be cool to rule my world
Ain't no particular sign, I'm more compatible with,
I just want your extra time and your KISS

********
I think I'd better dance now :cool:








Amity December 19, 2021 at 09:14 #632805
Klimt's Kiss
If I had to choose an avatar....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kiss_(Klimt)

Saw it upfront and centre - here:

Wiki: The painting now hangs in the Österreichische Galerie Belvedere museum in the Belvedere, Vienna, and is considered a masterpiece of Vienna Secession (local variation of Art Nouveau) and Klimt's most popular work.[5]

Penultimate trip to Vienna...Ah, Vienna...

Or no...wait...

Malcesine - last trip abroad. I was there with Goethe... :hearts:

https://www.gustav-klimt.com/Malcesine-on-Lake-Garda.jsp

Yes, my favourite memory. Crossing from there to Limone - looking back at The Scaliger Castle. Didn't have my camera - so imprinted it there and then, forever...

john27 December 19, 2021 at 12:56 #632828
Quoting unenlightened
Ah-bov-men-tchyn-ed) as in Bless-ed not Blest. as in op-ed not opt.


Ah I get it. Thanks :up:
god must be atheist December 19, 2021 at 14:34 #632850
Quoting unenlightened
Ah-bov-men-tchyn-ed) as in Bless-ed not Blest. as in op-ed not opt.


Not to argue, only to observe and report: in my parts ab-ov menshonnd, not shon-ed, as in op-ed. and not -tchond, but -shond.

English has many regional dialects, and it is a wonder we understand each other. I have had the most trouble with the Scottish, Jamaican, and some of the UK accents. I listened to a co-worker hard, Eddy, from England somewhere at my programming job, who was quite incomprehensible; turns out that he spoke with similar phonemes, not at all misleading or strange, but his cadence was off, and he put the stress on different syllables than we did in the office. That made him sound like a genius penguin-komodo dragon mix, because nobody understood a single word he said.
unenlightened December 19, 2021 at 15:35 #632857
Quoting god must be atheist
I have had the most trouble with the Scottish...



Caldwell December 19, 2021 at 16:26 #632870
Good morning everyone. I wish you the best of the holidays. I'm having a nice cup of coffee. I wish you are, too.
:flower:
Caldwell December 19, 2021 at 16:26 #632871
You too, @Hanover.
Jamal December 19, 2021 at 16:36 #632875
Quoting god must be atheist
made him sound like a genius penguin-komodo dragon mix


I'd like to know how to sound like that.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 19, 2021 at 17:53 #632886
Quoting Caldwell
Good morning everyone. I wish you the best of the holidays. I'm having a nice cup of coffee. I wish you are, too.


Good morning Caldwell :flower:
Thank you for your wishes for the holidays~
I wish the warmest of the season for you too~
:heart:
Amity December 19, 2021 at 17:56 #632887
Reply to unenlightened

"How can you be racist to a lift ? " :rofl:
At least, there wisnae a Glesga Kiss !

From urban dictionary:

The Glesga Kiss.

I remember my first kiss like it wis only yesterday.
An’ I’ve goat the marks across my foreheid jist tae prove it.
It wis in the West End Ballroom, it’s nae longer there they say.
An’ I’m glad the Glesga Cooncil decided tae move it.

There wis this wee blonde wumman, she looked a guid wee dancer.
So I dashed across the flerr at considerable speed.
The wumman saw me comin’, sayin’, ‘here’s that bow-legged chancer.’
An’ she hit me oan the foreheid wi’ her heid.

I cannae remember her name, och! It’s a’ the bloody same.
I’m bein’ hurled aroon’ the Royal oan a barra.
My shirt’s a’ fu’ o’ bleed, wi’ fifteen stitches in my foreheid.
An’ the Doctor says I’ll no’ see for days, because o’ her mascara.

I swore it wid be the last time I’d be goin’ tae the dancin’.
There surely must be a safer way tae carry oan romancin’.








ArguingWAristotleTiff December 19, 2021 at 18:01 #632888
To my friends here in the forum, last night I was having a hard time in being in life frankly. Between the divorce, isolation from being positive for Covid-19 and the idea of spending the holidays alone....I was a mess.
When @Banno kept me talking in exchange of DM's in here as his lovely wife, who I have also been friends with for years, rings my phone from the other side of the world. I'm not swift with FaceTime but she didn't give up until I figured it out.
Both of my beautiful friends talked to me, the crying mess that I am, and it felt like a much needed hug across the world. I cannot Thank you enough for being my friends :heart:
Please don't ever be afraid of reaching out because it made me feel a world better.
god must be atheist December 19, 2021 at 18:10 #632890
Quoting jamalrob
I'd like to know how to sound like that.


Reply to jamalrob Chances are he is still in Toronto. Go there and ask for Eddy.
god must be atheist December 19, 2021 at 18:14 #632892
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Please don't ever be afraid of reaching out because it made me feel a world better.

:heart:
That's nice to hear. I would never have figured it out on my own that Banno was actually a human. And a nice guy at that.

Life is full of surprises. Pleasant ones, too, as the example shows.
god must be atheist December 19, 2021 at 18:20 #632894
Reply to unenlightened Loved it!! Scotland the home of the True Scotsman. And of Scotch tape, which is my everyday staple on the bicycle to tie things on and bring them home.
Amity December 19, 2021 at 18:26 #632897
Quoting Banno
Where's TheMadFool?


I was wondering that too... *
Hope all is well.
Keep Safe, everyone.
It's a difficult time for all, right now.
Take care.

* hopefully, he and others who don't post for a while are just taking a bit of a break.
I intend to do the same soon...
Caldwell December 19, 2021 at 18:33 #632898
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff
You're lucky to have Banno on your side. Normally, it would take a few posts before he comes to an agreement with you. :smile:
I wish you the best in what you're going through. And I hope you come out stronger than before.

I wish I could say more, Tiff. Often, I just rationalize things to get over a mess quickly. To a fault. People say we should spend more time ruminating and showing emotions over a problem. I do that, often in secrecy. (haha! oh the heartbroken posts -- that's crazy! :blush: ) So, when others share sad news with me, outwardly I'm stoic.
Jamal December 19, 2021 at 19:05 #632910
Quoting god must be atheist
Chances are he is still in Toronto. Go there and ask for Eddy.


I can't go back to Toronto.
Noble Dust December 19, 2021 at 20:05 #632926
Reply to jamalrob

Did they ban you?
unenlightened December 19, 2021 at 20:39 #632939
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 19, 2021 at 23:17 #632986
Quoting Caldwell
You're lucky to have Banno on your side. Normally, it would take a few posts before he comes to an agreement with you. :smile:
I wish you the best in what you're going through. And I hope you come out stronger than before.

I wish I could say more, Tiff. Often, I just rationalize things to get over a mess quickly. To a fault. People say we should spend more time ruminating and showing emotions over a problem. I do that, often in secrecy. (haha! oh the heartbroken posts -- that's crazy! :blush: ) So, when others share sad news with me, outwardly I'm


I am very lucky to have @Banno as a dear friend.
I am also blessed to have you as a friend my dear Caldwell :flower:
god must be atheist December 19, 2021 at 23:26 #632987
Quoting jamalrob
I can't go back to Toronto.
I've lived for a long time in Toronto. I have now two glass eyes that see better than one. I have an artificial kidney that prints souvenir cards. I have a twelve-storey bedroom in a downtown condo, on a 2x 2 square foot area. I haven't seen a live tree, bird, grass or Frenchman in 27 years in Toronto. You must know Chinese because all street names are written in Modern Simplified Chinese in Toronto. You can't get married in Toronto because all the women are invisible in Toronto.

I think I'll head down to Mexico. They all went to Mexico.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL3bxRlRYtc
Banno December 19, 2021 at 23:46 #632998
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff :blush:


(Don't tell people I can be nice. I have a reputation to uphold.)
Banno December 19, 2021 at 23:46 #632999
Again, Quoting Banno
Where's TheMadFool?


Jack Cummins December 20, 2021 at 00:35 #633014
Reply to Banno
I have been thinking the exact same thing. He hasn't logged in for 11 days. I sent him a message a couple of days ago but he hasn't logged in so that means the same thing. I am actually a bit worried in case he is ill, but it could be something straightforward like his computer/ phone is not working.
god must be atheist December 20, 2021 at 02:27 #633032
Quoting Banno
Where's TheMadFool?


If we were not forced to stay incognito and use avatars, then we could find out. Then again, under those circumstances I would have long been hunted down by some irate members.
Amity December 20, 2021 at 08:32 #633080
Quoting Banno
(Don't tell people I can be nice. I have a reputation to uphold.)


Rest easy - even total bastards can be nice to their friends !

Seriously though - well done :clap:
No need to :blush:

Take care all :sparkle:
Tobias December 20, 2021 at 19:58 #633205
You like szekelygulyas @ArguingWAristotleTiff? nothing fancy, but sometimes this old central European favouite hits the spot. Comfort food at its best, I wish you have something good :)
unenlightened December 20, 2021 at 21:47 #633270
What's the thing with the resurrection of dead threads?

It's Christmas, not Easter.
god must be atheist December 20, 2021 at 22:28 #633306
Reply to unenlightened better resurrecting dead threads than getting death threats.
john27 December 20, 2021 at 22:41 #633310
Quoting god must be atheist
better resurrecting dead threads than getting death threats.


Better yet, better resurrecting dead threats than death threads.
T Clark December 20, 2021 at 23:22 #633339
Quoting unenlightened
What's the thing with the resurrection of dead threads?


It seems like it happens when we get new members. They run through all the current threads, then go look in the past for ones that interest them.
frank December 20, 2021 at 23:44 #633352
How useful is the word "bottleneck" ???
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 00:33 #633373
Quoting frank
How useful is the word "bottleneck" ???


I have found it helpful to describe a shit show of parking lot traffic as 5 lanes merge into one and it has an accident to boot.
A better way to look at it is: that when driving in a parking lot, a lot of bottleneck beers would be a coping mechanism.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 00:40 #633377
1st Negative COVID test!!
If I am negative again tomorrow I am sprung!
Back to the bs of the last control Nick has and will continue to do.
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood... :flower:
Shawn December 21, 2021 at 03:52 #633436
*Pig begins to wallow and oink to itself*
Caldwell December 21, 2021 at 04:33 #633447
Quoting Banno
Where's TheMadFool?

I thought the Fool was @Agent Smith. :chin:
Banno December 21, 2021 at 04:36 #633449
BC December 21, 2021 at 04:38 #633451
Quoting unenlightened
What's the thing with the resurrection of dead threads?


You ask about dead threads when many threads reference philosophers and philosophic question that have been decidedly dead for 2500 years, How do we know a thread is sincerely dead, and not merely maintaining the appearance of mortality?
Agent Smith December 21, 2021 at 04:43 #633452
Quoting Caldwell
I thought the Fool was Agent Smith. :chin:


There's a very simple explanation for @TheMadFool's absence. I copied myself onto him! :grin: :cool:
Caldwell December 21, 2021 at 04:45 #633454
Quoting Agent Smith
There's a very simple explanation for TheMadFool's absence. I copied myself onto him! :grin: :cool:

Apparently. Your use of formulas in your posts, for example.
Agent Smith December 21, 2021 at 04:48 #633456
Quoting Caldwell
Apparently. Your use of formulas in your posts, for example.


I retain some of the characteristics of my "victims". That's how it works. :smile:
Caldwell December 21, 2021 at 04:55 #633458
Quoting Agent Smith
I retain some of the characteristics of my "victims". That's how it works. :smile:

Including wit?
Agent Smith December 21, 2021 at 05:20 #633464
Quoting Caldwell
Including wit?


No comment!
T Clark December 21, 2021 at 05:21 #633465
Quoting frank
How useful is the word "bottleneck" ???


Caldwell December 21, 2021 at 05:35 #633468
Quoting Agent Smith
No comment!

Yup. Let it show! :yum:
god must be atheist December 21, 2021 at 10:04 #633518
Quoting Caldwell
Including wit?


Including what? Wit? Wot. <- antidote for wit.
frank December 21, 2021 at 12:47 #633539
SophistiCat December 21, 2021 at 16:15 #633566
Quoting Caldwell
I thought the Fool was Agent Smith


Looks like TiredThinker is trying to usurp TMF's position in his absence. Agent Smith, on the other hand, looks all too familiar...

I do hope TMF is well, but I wouldn't worry yet: he has be scarce for some periods in the past.
Hanover December 21, 2021 at 17:46 #633598
Guiness stew. Rutabaga instead of potatoes and cornbread instead of beer bread on the side, but otherwise just as @Baden's mom would've made. User image
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 17:54 #633601
Quoting Hanover
Rutabaga


I'd heard that word before but I had to look it up. Where I come from we call them neeps. I also call them turnips. The English call them swedes and reserve "turnips" for white turnips. Russians call them bryukva.

A suitably hearty meal for these dark winter days. :clap:
frank December 21, 2021 at 17:54 #633602
I was in a store and they were playing this really beautiful music. I thought: it's a little melancholy for Christmas, but it's nice. When I got in my car the music was still playing... on my phone. I'd been walking around with my own soundtrack playing. It was this:

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:00 #633605
Quoting Tobias
You like szekelygulyas ArguingWAristotleTiff? nothing fancy, but sometimes this old central European favouite hits the spot. Comfort food at its best, I wish you have something good :)


Would you please cook some for me? It's an amazing dish and please don't go easy on the Paprika! :heart:
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 18:01 #633606
When I was a kid there were no pumpkins, at least not where I lived, but the Halloween tradition of carving pumpkins had taken hold already, so we carved rutabagas instead (neeps or swedes or whatever). It sounds ridiculous now, a la the Yorkshiremen sketch.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:02 #633608
Quoting Hanover
Guiness stew. Rutabaga instead of potatoes and cornbread instead of beer bread on the side, but otherwise just as Baden's mom would've made.


You had me at Guinness. I don't drink but I love beer in cooking. Beer cheese yummy :yum:
I would love it if you could leave out the Turnips but everything else is awesome!
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 18:03 #633609
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Beer cheese


Another new concept for me. :grin:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:05 #633611
Quoting jamalrob
When I was a kid there were no pumpkins, at least not where I lived, but the Halloween tradition of carving pumpkins had taken hold already, so we carved rutabagas instead (neeps or swedes or whatever). It sounds ridiculous now, a la the Yorkshiremen sketch.


You could use your carving skills to make awesome garnish for fine dining!
Or step it up a notch and use chainsaws for ice sculptures. :eyes:
Tobias December 21, 2021 at 18:06 #633612
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Would you please cook some for me? It's an amazing dish and please don't go easy on the Paprika! :heart:


I never go easy on the paprika. Come to think of it I do have to order som Hungarian paprika. I ordered a whole bunch of different Mexican chilis, but I just saw I ran out of genuine Hungarian paprika and I am going to need it.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:06 #633614
Quoting jamalrob
Another new concept for me. :grin:


OMG don't start with it now!
I've had beer cheese good enough to roll in it!.
It's THAT good!
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 18:07 #633615
Quoting frank
I was in a store and they were playing this really beautiful music. I thought: it's a little melancholy for Christmas, but it's nice. When I got in my car the music was still playing... on my phone. I'd been walking around with my own soundtrack playing. It was this:


Nice.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:08 #633616
Quoting Tobias
I never go easy on the paprika. Come to think of it I do have to order som Hungarian paprika. I ordered a whole bunch of different Mexican chilis, but I just saw I ran out of genuine Hungarian paprika and I am going to need it.

I am willing to wait :yum:
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 18:10 #633617
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
You could use your carving skills to make awesome garnish for fine dining!
Or step it up a notch and use chainsaws for ice sculptures.


User image
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:13 #633619
I'm trying to learn to set boundaries for myself, frankly it's not my nature but seeing in retrospect the control I am actively under but getting out of, comes the question: how do I not fall into the same definition of love that I have allowed to rule me for the last 30 years?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 21, 2021 at 18:14 #633621
@jamalrob
That is amazingly creepy looking :gasp:
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 18:16 #633624
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff I wish I could take credit for it. When I reached unassisted carving age, pumpkins had become all the rage.
Tobias December 21, 2021 at 18:40 #633628
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'm trying to learn to set boundaries for myself, frankly it's not my nature but seeing in retrospect the control I am actively under but getting out of, comes the question: how do I not fall into the same definition of love that I have allowed to rule me for the last 30 years?


Love unfortunately is not a question of definition. Love is not law. It displays itself differently with every new person one loves or has loved. So the definition is in its use. You will redefine it when you love again. Love, at least I think, is a process, an action not a rule. But yes, rest is sometimes needed, just take your time.
god must be atheist December 21, 2021 at 19:25 #633644
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
how do I not fall into the same definition of love that I have allowed to rule me for the last 30 years?


Try to be philosophical about it.
god must be atheist December 21, 2021 at 19:27 #633645
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
how do I not fall into the same definition of love that I have allowed to rule me for the last 30 years?


Try to be logical about it. Don't let your emotions guide you this time.

To start, you could ask yourself: how do I not fall into the same definition of love that I have allowed to rule me for the last 30 years?
god must be atheist December 21, 2021 at 19:34 #633648
Reply to jamalrob Quoting jamalrob
Another new concept for me.


Beer Cheese Dip
2 tablespoons unsalted butter
2 tablespoons flour
1 teaspoon garlic powder
1 teaspoon dried parsley
1/2 teaspoon kosher salt
1/2 teaspoon black pepper
1 cup lager beer
8 oz cheddar cheese, grated

Steps
1 add butter and flour to a medium pot over medium heat. Whisk together to form a roux as the butter melts. Add garlic powder, parsley, salt, and pepper and cook roux for 1-2 minutes.

2 Whisk lager into the roux slowly until it thickens. It should be a gravy consistency. If it’s very thick, add more beer by the quarter cup.

3 Once mixture is together, add grated cheese and whisk until melted.

4 Serve beer cheese dip immediately with soft pretzels or chips.
T Clark December 21, 2021 at 20:57 #633679
Reply to jamalrob

Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
That is amazingly creepy looking


Almost as bad as that dolls head with... No, sorry. I can't even say it.
Jamal December 21, 2021 at 21:02 #633680
Update: in fact, it seems that carving neeps goes back further than carving pumpkins:

[quote=Guardian]Long before the pumpkin became the Halloween decoration of choice, people across Britain carved ghoulish faces into turnips and placed them near doorways to frighten away evils spirits[/quote]
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/oct/26/go-back-to-halloweens-roots-and-carve-a-turnip-charity-suggests

But it doesn't seem right to dwell on Halloween traditions at Christmas, so I'll shut up.
john27 December 21, 2021 at 22:42 #633700
Quoting T Clark
Almost as bad as that dolls head with... No, sorry. I can't even say it.


Don't! Please don't give someone the incentive to bring about its return (whatever it was).
praxis December 21, 2021 at 22:47 #633702
My pumpkin from last Halloween.

User image
john27 December 21, 2021 at 22:51 #633705
Reply to praxis

Hey, not bad.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 22, 2021 at 00:06 #633720
Quoting Tobias
Love unfortunately is not a question of definition. Love is not law. It displays itself differently with every new person one loves or has loved. So the definition is in its use. You will redefine it when you love again. Love, at least I think, is a process, an action not a rule. But yes, rest is sometimes needed, just take your time.


I thought love is a higher law...
As I try to peel back the years as I prepare for departure of this chapter of my life, I am remembering the woman who I was and left to be led, willingly, but not anymore.
I am a very loving person so I can't not lead by emotion and feelings....
I will say it here: I was raised to make people feel better for having interacted with me. That is a beautiful way through life that I am trying very hard to keep in my path ahead. It has left people feeling like I am flirting with them and sometimes I am but a lot of the time I am just being me.
Does that sound like a way back to the same place I am leaving?
Baden December 22, 2021 at 00:10 #633721
Reply to Hanover

She never could cook. :cry:
Hanover December 22, 2021 at 00:13 #633722
Quoting jamalrob
The English call them swedes and reserve "turnips" for white turnips. Russians call them bryukva.


Where I'm from, we call the tips of breasts neeps, maybe nips, I can't exactly remember.

A culinary anecdote: my family and I visited Iceland years ago and the food was crazy expensive. We found a convenience store that sold all you could eat lamb stew with rutabaga in it, so we ate that until we got sick. I tried to make it back home, but couldn't duplicate it exactly. It's called Kjötsúpa. That means kjot soup in English. It's hard to find kjots in Atlanta.
Hanover December 22, 2021 at 00:18 #633724
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I thought love is a higher law...


As Stevie Nicks asked:

"Well, did she make you cry
Make you break down
Shatter your illusions of love?
And is it over now, do you know how?
Pick up the pieces and go home."

She or he, it all works the same.
Tobias December 22, 2021 at 00:24 #633725
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I thought love is a higher law...


Love is the highest law, from it springs definition and logic, law and philosophy and all the myriad of ways we try to gain a foothold in life and. navigate it and embrace the world that captivates us. Law is a reflection of it, but not the same thing. Law is an ordering love that is impersonal, distant. There is nothing wrong with, it is equally essentially loving. It is not you though law is not your way.

You can still be loving and you will be. It is a matter of finding back yourself. However, the world shifted, tilted and now you have to find your feet again. But you will. If that is your way of going through life, then you will stay going that way. Love does all kinds of things and ot shapes us, but does not change us fundamentally. We are who we are, whether we like it or not actually. If anything love teaches us who we are. If being you is making people feel better, then you are that still that person. For now just find your feet and become yourself again, It just takes some rime to get up, take your time for it. All will be well
Hanover December 22, 2021 at 00:26 #633726
frank December 22, 2021 at 01:19 #633736
Reply to praxis

You did a self portrait. Nice.
Tom Storm December 22, 2021 at 02:33 #633746
Reply to frank I thought it was Devon Gummidge, Worzel's younger brother...
Caldwell December 22, 2021 at 02:51 #633755
Quoting god must be atheist
Including what? Wit? Wot. <- antidote for wit.

haha! Nice one!

Quoting SophistiCat
Looks like TiredThinker is trying to usurp TMF's position in his absence. Agent Smith, on the other hand, looks all too familiar...

I do hope TMF is well, but I wouldn't worry yet: he has be scarce for some periods in the past.

Yeah, who's TiredThinker? :smile:

I hope so, too, that The Fool is doing fine.
god must be atheist December 22, 2021 at 03:00 #633756
Quoting Hanover
Kjötsúpa.


I love your funky vowels. Those two are also on the HU keyboard.
god must be atheist December 22, 2021 at 03:04 #633757
Quoting Caldwell
haha! Nice one!


I think I've been discovered.

(That's what the Indian said. When he saw people paddle toward him from the "Pinta".)
Caldwell December 22, 2021 at 03:07 #633759
Quoting god must be atheist
I think I've been discovered.

You're now a celebrity.
god must be atheist December 22, 2021 at 04:49 #633781
Reply to Caldwell We must celebrate that. -- or did you want to write, "You're now a celery," with a "b" and an "it" that got in there by Google correctype editor.
Caldwell December 22, 2021 at 04:53 #633783
Quoting god must be atheist
?Caldwell
We must celebrate that. -- or did you want to write, "You're now a celery," with a "b" and an "it" that got in there by Google correctype editor.

Nah. Google is not that smart. I really meant celebrity.
god must be atheist December 22, 2021 at 04:56 #633785
Reply to Caldwell Let's bring out the bubblies, then! :party: :starstruck: :sparkle:
Jack Cummins December 22, 2021 at 10:53 #633843
It is now showing up as 14 days since the Madfool logged into the site. It is so strange because he seemed to be on it everyday. I just hope that he is okay.
Jamal December 22, 2021 at 12:16 #633865
Reply to Jack Cummins Agent Smith is him, I believe.
Jack Cummins December 22, 2021 at 13:31 #633876
Reply to jamalrob
That is interesting. The Madfool reincarnated as Agent Smith. I have looked at a couple of posts by him and wondering if it is true..
Jamal December 22, 2021 at 13:48 #633878
Reply to Jack Cummins Pretty sure it's him. Joined 14 days ago and has the same posting habits.
Jack Cummins December 22, 2021 at 14:03 #633880
Reply to jamalrob
Oh well, I am glad that he is okay and isn't ill with Omicron or anything else ominous. So, at the present time if I interact with Agent Smith I will presume it is the new incarnation of the Madfool, a bit like there being new Dr Whos.
Jamal December 22, 2021 at 14:11 #633886
Reply to Jack Cummins Or like a mutating virus? :wink:
Hanover December 22, 2021 at 14:27 #633891
What do you think the response would be if we asked @Agent Smith if he was previously known as @TheMadFool? That might get to the bottom of this.
Jamal December 22, 2021 at 14:30 #633892
He kind of confirmed it already a couple of pages ago: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/633452
praxis December 22, 2021 at 18:32 #633965
Quoting frank
You did a self portrait. Nice.


Thanks!
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 23, 2021 at 02:14 #634092
@Hanover
Not only shattered the illusion but revealed a not so pleasant person. :shade:
Shawn December 23, 2021 at 03:56 #634111
Do any of you contemplate what your reading while your reading it?

I can't ever finish a book after reading some of it.
T Clark December 23, 2021 at 04:02 #634112
Quoting Shawn
I can't ever finish a book after reading some of it.


Is this like Zeno's paradox? You read half of it, then you read half of what's left, etc.
unenlightened December 23, 2021 at 11:02 #634172
Quoting Tobias
Love unfortunately is not a question of definition. Love is not law. It displays itself differently with every new person one loves or has loved. So the definition is in its use. You will redefine it when you love again. Love, at least I think, is a process, an action not a rule. But yes, rest is sometimes needed, just take your time.


I just wanted to re-quote this because Christmas is a time for dangerous wisdom. I say dangerous, because those of us who do not love may still think our actions redefine it. A danger for us, not for love.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 23, 2021 at 12:48 #634190
Yet somehow, I knew that at times, I was dancing with the Devil. :fire:
john27 December 23, 2021 at 13:39 #634197
Heres a term I'm going to coin: Reverse Dunning-Krueger effect. People with low capabilities in a certain subject, after having heard of the Dunning-Krueger effect purposely lower their estimates of proficiency, In hopes of joining the high capability segment of the experiment.

e.g= me to some extent, if I'm brutally honest.
Changeling December 23, 2021 at 15:36 #634224
User image

@Caldwell agree?
Michael December 23, 2021 at 15:40 #634226
Reply to The Opposite Not necessarily. One of your grandparents might also be your parent.
Changeling December 23, 2021 at 15:44 #634227
Reply to Michael
Explain how!
User image
Michael December 23, 2021 at 15:45 #634228
Reply to The Opposite I wouldn't want to destroy your innocence.
Changeling December 23, 2021 at 15:49 #634229
Reply to Michael are you referring to what happened in Austria about 15 years ago?
Michael December 23, 2021 at 15:57 #634230
Reply to The Opposite I'm referring to when daddy and daddy's mommy love each other very much...
Changeling December 23, 2021 at 16:03 #634231
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 23, 2021 at 17:15 #634239
Quoting Michael
Opposite I'm referring to when daddy and daddy's mommy love each other very much...

Have you had formal training on explaining the complex? Because you are pretty good at it!

Michael December 23, 2021 at 17:17 #634240
Hanover December 23, 2021 at 17:17 #634241
Quoting Shawn
Do any of you contemplate what your reading while your reading it?


I get distracted by your "your" misusage and then I lose attention to what I'm reading
Hanover December 23, 2021 at 17:28 #634242
This guy was lying on the sidewalk and I accidently stepped on his face, then a rat scampered across my foot. Gonna be one of those days.

Jamal December 23, 2021 at 17:34 #634246
Reply to Hanover Can you stop doing that with the ugly pictures for the love of christ
Amity December 23, 2021 at 17:36 #634247
The Best Italian Christmas Songs (Le Più Belle Canzoni di Natale in Italiano)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HTnZkp0zps

Bianco Natale 00:00
Jingle Bells 03:37
Happy Christmas 05:25
Oh Holy Night 08:23
Adeste Fideles 11:56
Astro del Ciel 14:37
Tannenbaum 16:17
Ninna Nanna 18:33
Buon Natale in allegria 20:34
Ave Maria 23:48
Tu scendi dalle stelle 27:25
Gesù bambino 30:36
L'albero di Natale 34:41
Un Natale di neve 37:22
La notte di natale 40:36

No matter where you are this Christmas, even if you don't believe in Santa (tut, tut !) -
Keep listening and dancing to the music. Feel its power and magic :starstruck:
Peace and Best Wishes to All :sparkle:


Amity December 23, 2021 at 17:46 #634249
Quoting Hanover
This guy was lying on the sidewalk and I accidently stepped on his face, then a rat scampered across my foot. Gonna be one of those days.


If your Short Story is as bloody awful as that pic then major :vomit: :down: :100:




Hanover December 23, 2021 at 17:46 #634250
Quoting jamalrob
Can you stop doing that with the ugly pictures for the love of christ


Your request is reasonable now that I think about it.
Jamal December 23, 2021 at 17:47 #634251
Hanover December 23, 2021 at 17:48 #634253
Quoting Amity
If your Short Story is as bloody awful as that pic then major :vomit: :down: :100:


Totes art h8r is what u r.

Michael December 23, 2021 at 17:48 #634254
Jamal December 23, 2021 at 17:49 #634255
Amity December 23, 2021 at 17:50 #634256
Quoting Hanover
Totes art h8r is what u r.


Yeah, must be true.
I voted for your story last time :razz:
Hanover December 23, 2021 at 17:51 #634258
Reply to Amity You'll never spot mine.
Amity December 23, 2021 at 17:53 #634260
Quoting Hanover
You'll never spot mine.


Now there's a challenge. Looking forward to reading them all. You brilliant people :fire:
Shawn December 23, 2021 at 20:25 #634291
Quoting Hanover
I get distracted by your "your" misusage and then I lose attention to what I'm reading


That's true. But, I get distracted by anything when reading and contemplating over what I just read.
T Clark December 23, 2021 at 20:42 #634295
Quoting jamalrob
Can you stop doing that with the ugly pictures for the love of christ


@Hanover

Can one of you please do with it what was done with the last one - put it in a hide/reveal.
john27 December 23, 2021 at 21:44 #634317
Reply to Hanover

Holy smokes man. Please.
Hanover December 23, 2021 at 22:48 #634349
I get that the tooth foot pic is disturbing, but take a moment and think about what I went through and the poor man whose face I accidentally stepped in went through. It's been a very difficult day for us both. My shoe doesn't fit right anymore and that guy is going to have to gum his Christmas dinner.

So, please, indeed.

frank December 23, 2021 at 23:24 #634355
Toe teeth are worse than mouth teeth? What about a belly button right in the middle of your abdomen? The whole thing is fucking horrific!
john27 December 23, 2021 at 23:26 #634356
Quoting frank
Toe teeth are worse than mouth teeth? What about a belly button right in the middle of your abdomen? The whole thing is fucking horrific!


Stop giving him ideas you nincompoop.
Caldwell December 24, 2021 at 01:30 #634398
Quoting The Opposite
Caldwell agree?

Close enough. :sweat:
But, if cousins married, then that should reduce the number of grandparents, and great grams?
Caldwell December 24, 2021 at 01:36 #634400
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 24, 2021 at 14:03 #634537
Merry Christmas :flower:
Hanover December 24, 2021 at 17:26 #634579
My favorite Christmas song from when I was a kid:

Caldwell December 24, 2021 at 17:33 #634582
Merry Christmas, to all! :smile:
Amity December 24, 2021 at 18:02 #634598
In the Bleak Midwinter - Winter in the Highlands

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G0FIn7nB2E

Chill out this Christmas :party:
Baden December 25, 2021 at 00:09 #634677
Happy Holiday Stories here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/38/short-story-competition-2
jorndoe December 25, 2021 at 02:27 #634688
Don't Look Up is a dark comedy, an apocalyptic "satirical science fiction film" (quoting Wikipedia), that might be seen as a note on today's culture, perhaps mostly online culture.

Not politics exactly (or exclusively), but culture at large — behaviors, post-truth raving rambling ranting babbling, reality-apathy (or denial), ..., towards pandemic, climate change, pollution, deforestation, ...

I guess it might be summarized by a scientist (played by Rob Morgan), one of the voices of reason in the movie ...

[quote=Dr Teddy Oglethorpe]Grow up[/quote]

:D

When not chuckling, you can't help but get p¡ss?d off at people at times, like Kate Dibiasky does (played by Jennifer Lawrence). Such a humanity will lose of course.

Has a few famous actors.

BC December 25, 2021 at 02:49 #634690
As far as Minnesota is from an ocean, eating stewed fresh oysters on Christmas Eve is a thing. Major, sacrament, actually. As Flannery O'Connor said about the Eucharist, “If it's only a symbol, to hell with it.” It has to be real, and to be valid you have to eat at least one oyster, and like it. On the matter of oyster crackers, I am a heretic: there is no difference between a Nabisco saltine cracker and a Nabisco oyster cracker. There is only a difference in shape and (perhaps, slight) thickness.

3 cups of whole cow milk
1 cup of real half & half
at least 1 pound of fresh, shelled oysters
salt to taste; pepper to taste; 1 T butter
1/3 to 1/2 cup ground saltine or oyster cracker crumbs

Heat milk, half and half, and butter in double boiler large enough to hold a quart of liquid
Add salt and pepper
In a sauce pan, gently heat oysters, body fluids and all until the edges start to wrinkle slightly (between 150º and 160º F)
Add oysters to milk
add cracker crumbs, stirring while pouring. (Caution: If you add too much crack crumb, the stew begins to resemble

Continue to cook in double boiler for 1/2 hour.

Half of the stew eaten; fulfillment. Now I'm going to watch Don't Look Up.

A festive glad Yule, Christmas, Nativity, Winter Festival, or fake event -- whatever you think it was, and let's hope that 2022 is better than 2021 and 2020 and that a crack opens up in the earth and swallows that demon Donald Trump, and that right wingers, anti vexers, conspiracists, know nothings, stupid shits, and all like kinds see the light forthwith.
john27 December 25, 2021 at 03:30 #634697
Reply to Bitter Crank

You cook your oysters? I just eat them fresh. I thought everybody did that...
BC December 25, 2021 at 03:52 #634698
Reply to john27 I've never found raw oysters anything but interesting and pleasant, but stewed oysters is the once a year traditional experience I'm aiming for,
BC December 25, 2021 at 03:52 #634699
Reply to jorndoe 30 minutes into the film, it seems entirely and appallingly believable.
BC December 25, 2021 at 05:52 #634705
Reply to jorndoe I give Don't Look Up from Netflix two thumbs up, but maybe I'm easy. It's a painful comedy. it IS nominally about the end of the world (not a spoiler). The larger central story concerns the lens through which the sucktive, corrupt, power seekers see the world, or its demise. Their interests are always in the center of their picture of reality.
Streetlight December 25, 2021 at 11:54 #634755
Merry Christmas everyone :)
Srap Tasmaner December 25, 2021 at 13:12 #634762
Merry Christmas, gang!
Jamal December 25, 2021 at 13:25 #634765
Merry Christmas you lovely people.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 25, 2021 at 13:52 #634768
Quoting jamalrob
Merry Christmas you lovely people.


Even @Hanover ?

Merry Christmas and a belated Happy Hannaku!
Hey.... Can I become Jewish? :flower:
Michael December 25, 2021 at 14:35 #634776
Quoting jamalrob
Merry Christmas you lovely people


Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Even Hanover ?


Merry Christmas lovely people and Hanover.
Hanover December 25, 2021 at 14:53 #634777
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hey.... Can I become Jewish? :flower:


Nope. We're all full up already for 2022. Need to send in the application earlier for next year.

Quoting Michael
Merry Christmas lovely people and Hanover.
9m


Thanks for the heartfelt well wishes.

Do English people still eat goose for Christmas? Seems like storybooks always had festive geese on the dinner table. That and figgy pudding, whatever that is. Seems I remember some English friends having me wear a paper crown and had some sort of exploding confetti thing years back. Is that still a thing?
Michael December 25, 2021 at 14:54 #634778
Reply to Hanover I had beef wellington yesterday. Today is snails and chocolate truffles.
Hanover December 25, 2021 at 14:57 #634779
Quoting Michael
Today is snails and chocolate truffles.


That's it? How many snails you have to eat to fill up, like 200?
Michael December 25, 2021 at 15:31 #634780
Quoting Hanover
That's it? How many snails you have to eat to fill up, like 200?


Of course that’s not it. I also had a mocha.
frank December 25, 2021 at 15:31 #634781
Butterscotch cookies have been the highlight so far. Plus seeing a friend's Christmas decorations, which are skeletons dressed up as Santas.
Jamal December 25, 2021 at 15:45 #634783
Had pizza for Christmas dinner today
fdrake December 25, 2021 at 15:46 #634784
Merry Christmas all.
Noble Dust December 25, 2021 at 16:15 #634788
Merry Christmas y’all. Had the traditional Finnish Kropsua for breakfast with preserved lingonberries. I wonder if @Bitter Crank is familiar.

Michael December 25, 2021 at 17:36 #634797
Quoting Michael
Today is snails and chocolate truffles.


Also caviar, foie gras, and coquilles st jacques. A very traditional British Christmas dinner.

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 25, 2021 at 18:02 #634808
Quoting Hanover
Nope. We're all full up already for 2022. Need to send in the application earlier for next year.


Done :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 25, 2021 at 18:05 #634810
Well I am still carrying on the tradition of Kugelis.
I did it alone as I imagine I will be doing a lot more of life alone.
But, my Indian woke up to the smell of Christmas, as he has for the last 25 years. And he wants to spend today with my parents and I which is the real reason for this season.
Cheers to all who made it here with me :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 25, 2021 at 18:15 #634814
And @Hanover thanks for the ear worm that keeps grabbing me when my mind drifts.
"Take your silver spoon and dig... "
Hanover December 25, 2021 at 18:22 #634818
I had ham, Brussel sprouts, rolls, acorn squash, and pecan pie. Apparently only Jewish people have traditional Christmas meals.
Sam26 December 25, 2021 at 19:10 #634829
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all, and to all of your loved ones.
Caldwell December 25, 2021 at 19:12 #634830
Happy holidays to all!
I'm a nibbler. So whatever I could nibble on, that's my Christmas meal.
:party:

Hugs and kisses everyone!

unenlightened December 25, 2021 at 19:21 #634832
Bah humbug, fellow atheists! I had Quorn roast (tm) with all the trimmings.
T Clark December 25, 2021 at 20:11 #634847
Quoting Hanover
Nope. We're all full up already for 2022. Need to send in the application earlier for next year.


Can't she be undocumented Jewish? Does DACA cover that?
Hanover December 25, 2021 at 20:50 #634864
Quoting T Clark
Can't she be undocumented Jewish? Does DACA cover that?


You have to be chosen to be Jewish, and it's petty much up to me, so we'll see what happens.
BC December 25, 2021 at 21:30 #634885
Reply to Noble Dust I had pan-cooked pancakes yesterday. No baking, no lingonberries. Kropsua would be good were some Finn to make it authentic. The Finnish kitchen calvary has not appeared on the horizon.

I have made my family's traditional Christmas dinner -- roast bird (turkey, duck, or chicken), sweet potato, cranberries, vegetable. For dessert we would have, I have made, suet pudding -- your basic "plum pudding": suet, raisins, apple, carrot, flour, spices, steamed for 4 hours. For an old man all that is too much food to deal with. Maybe I will make the suet pudding. Suet is internal fat, found around the cow's kidneys.

Quoting Hanover
Do English people still eat goose for Christmas?


According to the US Department of Agriculture, "Americans consume about 1/3 pound of duck per person yearly. Consumption of goose is less." Why don't people eat more duck and goose? Cost, for sure. Grease, almost certainly, though it is the grease that makes it good. It doesn't taste like chicken. Not that many farmers raise geese and ducks -- they eat a lot, and the per-pound of meat yield per pound of feed isn't that great. Geese are easy enough to raise -- they can be left outside all winter, but they have to be fed grain for several months. They make good guards; they honk loudly when disturbed. The males especially can be aggressive (attacking when your back is turned, head lowered, hissing, then grabbing your ankle, causing the victim to fall over before being devoured--they are more vicious descendants of dinosaurs than your little chickadee).

Why don't you add geese to your suburban farming operation? Nothing says domestic tranquility like a flock of big white geese.
Sir2u December 26, 2021 at 01:08 #635001
Happy Christmas to one and all, and if you do not like that then humbug to you. :wink:
Caldwell December 26, 2021 at 03:40 #635027
Just beautiful. Mount Khomyak. Carpathian Mountains.

User image
god must be atheist December 26, 2021 at 15:51 #635213
Peace on Earth, Good Will Toward Man/Woman/Person/Animals/Birds/not Spiders or biting insects / But Bees, Yes/ Fishes / Not to Sharks / and generally everyone else who is not disagreeable to my own personal likes and preferences.
john27 December 26, 2021 at 18:12 #635284
Reply to Caldwell

Woah, that really is nice. Did you take the photo yourself?
T Clark December 26, 2021 at 18:17 #635286
T Clark December 26, 2021 at 19:53 #635348
@fdrake

So, did the Russell's Set thread just get deleted? I tagged fdrake because it seems like the kind of thread he might axe.

If it was so bad, why did it go on for so long?
T Clark December 26, 2021 at 19:54 #635349
Quoting T Clark
So, did the Russell's Set thread just get deleted? I tagged fdrake because it seems like the kind of thread he might axe.


Not complaining. Just curious.
fdrake December 26, 2021 at 19:55 #635350
Reply to T Clark

I nuked it.

It went on so long since I was out all day.
T Clark December 26, 2021 at 19:59 #635353
Quoting fdrake
I nuked it.

It went on so long since I was out all day.


Have you looked at @Roger Gregoire's "Mosquito Analogy?" 1) It is very badly argued 2) It will make RG happy to be silenced by The Man.
fdrake December 26, 2021 at 20:01 #635354
Reply to T Clark

Has generated enough contentful debunks to be worth keeping around at this point I think.
Jamal December 26, 2021 at 20:04 #635355
Quoting fdrake
Has generated enough contentful debunks to be worth keeping around at this point I think.


Agreed.
TonesInDeepFreeze December 26, 2021 at 20:07 #635359
Reply to fdrake

Without warning, without notification, without explanation. Is that not rude and arrogant moderation?

What is the explanation anyway?
fdrake December 26, 2021 at 20:10 #635362
Quoting TonesInDeepFreeze
explanation


OP was mathematics without commentary on mathematics. Responses were brief and lacking content. You wanna talk maths for maths sake without philosophical context, try elsewhere.

NB: "Why does Russell's paradox work?" might generate a much different discussion than presenting an abbreviated form of Wiki's Russel set as an OP with no commentary.

Edit: or eg a discussion on the axiom of comprehension used in constructing it would be treated differently.
Caldwell December 26, 2021 at 20:14 #635365
Quoting john27
Woah, that really is nice. Did you take the photo yourself?

I wish.
The mountain is the location of the 1922 vampyre silent movie Nosferatu, or at least that's where Count Orlok's Transylvanian castle should be. :)

TonesInDeepFreeze December 26, 2021 at 20:18 #635366
Reply to fdrake

You are errant in so many ways:

(1) My responses decidedly were usually not merely brief and not lacking content.

(2) My latest response did include mention of a philosophical aspect.

(3) The thread was not at all a presentation of merely the paradox without commentary. Clearly, you didn't bother even to reasonably skim the thread.

(4) It can reasonably be expected for subjects in mathematics that are related to the philosophy of mathematics to veer more mathematical at times, as clearing up the mathematics behind the philosophical questions is often crucial to philosophical discussion about them.

(5) A discussion of the axiom of comprehension as it relates to Russell's paradox is itself a mathematical discussion.

(6) You have not said in what way it is not rude and arrogant to delete a thread without warning, notification, or explanation.

fdrake December 26, 2021 at 20:19 #635368
Reply to TonesInDeepFreeze

Please make a complaint thread in Feedback if you wanna vent about it.
TonesInDeepFreeze December 26, 2021 at 20:22 #635370
Reply to fdrake

I am not venting. I am expressing my thoughts about it to you and whomever might be interested.

As you and another poster have mentioned your thoughts about the thread.

I don't need to start another thread about it.

Also, as I mentioned, when I click on 'Feedback' it doesn't do anything.
fdrake December 26, 2021 at 20:24 #635371
Reply to TonesInDeepFreeze

This link will take you to the Feedback board. When you click on Feedback, it's its own subforum.
TonesInDeepFreeze December 26, 2021 at 20:30 #635374
Reply to fdrake

Yes, my mistake about the link to Feedback.
T Clark December 26, 2021 at 20:36 #635378
Quoting fdrake
Has generated enough contentful debunks to be worth keeping around at this point I think.


I don't necessarily disagree. Mostly I just wanted to make a gratuitous, snarky, passive-aggressive comment. I also really do think it would make RG happy.
john27 December 26, 2021 at 22:40 #635408
Reply to Caldwell

Oh, neat. Thanks for the pretty photo.
Tom Storm December 26, 2021 at 23:40 #635448
Reply to T Clark I just got a copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Ursula Le Guin. I read about her obsession with this work in its various translations from the late Victorian period and thought I'd give it a try. It's very nice prose. Have you seen it? I've generally used the Mitchell.
Noble Dust December 26, 2021 at 23:57 #635462
Reply to Tom Storm

I have that edition. I’m no expert but I enjoy it.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 00:35 #635480
Round three is this week.
I'm not going away quietly and anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
Still .. putting on my Warrior armor again is getting heavy... I've been told that I have got one shot. Going up against a marksman
frank December 27, 2021 at 00:52 #635490
Quoting Tom Storm
I just got a copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Ursula Le Guin. I read about her obsession with this work in its various translations from the late Victorian period and thought I'd give it a try. It's very nice prose. Have you seen it? I've generally used the Mitchell.


I've got it, but it's not my favorite translation.
T Clark December 27, 2021 at 00:52 #635491
Quoting Tom Storm
I just got a copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Ursula Le Guin. I read about her obsession with this work in its various translations from the late Victorian period and thought I'd give it a try. It's very nice prose. Have you seen it? I've generally used the Mitchell.


I started out with Mitchell's translation and I still like it a lot. As I got deeper into the Tao Te Ching I started looking at a bunch of different translations most of which are found on this free website:

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/_index.html

That includes Le Guin's version. I think both Mitchell and Le Guin aim at audiences of people like you and me. I like them both. On the other hand, I've found myself drawn to some of the other translations that seem rougher and clunkier. I think that clunkiness reflects the difficulties of translating profound thoughts from one language to another and the ambiguity of the language. If I am going to pay close attention to a verse, I generally read four or five translations. I usually include Mitchell and sometimes Le Guin.
T Clark December 27, 2021 at 00:55 #635496
Quoting Tom Storm
I just got a copy of the Tao Te Ching translated by Ursula Le Guin. I read about her obsession with this work in its various translations from the late Victorian period and thought I'd give it a try. It's very nice prose. Have you seen it? I've generally used the Mitchell.


I should have said - use what you enjoy and what is meaningful to you. I did that for 20 years. If you find yourself wanting to dig deeper, you can do that later. Or you can just fiddle around with the other verses on the webpage I linked.
Tom Storm December 27, 2021 at 03:12 #635582
Reply to T Clark Yeah - no worries. I kind of like the clunky myself too but I was moved by Le Guin's passion to undertake this project so....
ssu December 27, 2021 at 13:15 #635749
Question:

What happened to the thread Russel's set?

Was it removed and why?
Amalac December 27, 2021 at 13:23 #635751


Quoting ssu
Question:

What happened to the thread Russel's set?

Was it removed and why?


Quoting fdrake
I nuked it.

It went on so long since I was out all day.


ssu December 27, 2021 at 13:30 #635755
Why???

It was totally an ordinary thread. People can ask stupid question, can they?

Can people start a topic and then it can drift? Or not?

Deleting threads shouldn't be a casual thing, you know.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 13:49 #635758
@ssu
Happy holidays to you :flower:
ssu December 27, 2021 at 14:13 #635762
Thanks @ArguingWAristotleTiff,

Hey, happy holidays also to you and your family!!! Let's hope that the next year is better than this one.

(Or if it isn't, at least for us and the members of this community it isn't worse.)
fdrake December 27, 2021 at 14:37 #635767
Quoting ssu
People can ask stupid question, can they?


Analogy to thread:

OP: [math]\frac{dy}{dx} = e^{x} \implies y=e^x+c[/math]
Comments: "How can something's rate of change be itself?"
Comments: "Here is how something's rate of change can be itself (proof or reference)"
Comments: "But how"
(continued criticism of established mathematics with little understanding of it)

What thread was not:

OP: [math]\frac{dy}{dx} = e^{x} \implies y=e^x+c[/math], something's rate of change being itself is rather puzzling, it goes against a common intuition of change (spells out intuition).

If someone makes an OP like that, the commenters have to save the thread if they want it around. The majority of the comments were one liners. Some comments were largely factual corrections or people dunking on each other. It was not worth saving.

It also wasn't done casually. @Agent Smith had posted several threads of this format within hours of each other. They often get deleted before anyone posts.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 16:08 #635798
@fdrake
Could you please put those Satanic symbols called math behind a "reveal" sheild please?
fdrake December 27, 2021 at 16:35 #635806
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Assuming you are not joking, no.
john27 December 27, 2021 at 16:38 #635807
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Ahaha, it's not so bad. Think thats what, grade 10 math? Rise over run, and the line formula or something like that.
T Clark December 27, 2021 at 17:00 #635811
Quoting Tom Storm
Yeah - no worries. I kind of like the clunky myself too but I was moved by Le Guin's passion to undertake this project so....


I don't know if you've looked at the page I linked, but there are dozens of translations there. There are many more than that which aren't listed. Everyone seems to feel that passion to tell people what it means to them. That was a lot of the motivation for the thread I started "My favorite verses of the Tao Te Ching," which I dropped at about Verse 20. I should probably pick it up again. I need something to dig deeper into.
T Clark December 27, 2021 at 17:19 #635816
RE our discussion here yesterday about deleting threads - I would appreciate if moderators would take 20 seconds to put a post in the Shoutbox to notify people. It would save a lot of confusion and might even save moderators time not having to respond to griping emails.
ssu December 27, 2021 at 19:07 #635844
Reply to T Clark I think a better option is simply to close the thread if it's going nowhere. And leave the line "this thread has been closed by moderator y because of x" with x being the clearly stated reason.

Even if I promote that stupid questions can be asked, then if answers are given that, well, are based on (correct) high school math, aren't afterwards accepted by the initiator of the thread (which can happen), then by all means close the thread. Yet then the action of the moderator / administrator is all to see when it's simply just closed for continuation. Especially when the thread isn't obvious spam, marketing or the things that the rules give examples.

But once it just goes off by deletion, nobody even notices this. At worst, people can apply to be moderators who do have an agenda, which isn't just to moderate the debate.
T Clark December 27, 2021 at 19:23 #635853
Quoting ssu
I think a better option is simply to close the thread if it's going nowhere.


I think that would be a good solution, although there may be threads that should be deleted. I would just like to end the confusion.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 20:18 #635881
Quoting fdrake
Assuming you are not joking, no.


Sorry. I was absolutely being factious.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 20:20 #635882
Quoting john27
Ahaha, it's not so bad. Think thats what, grade 10 math? Rise over run, and the line formula or something like that.


Hmmm .. you must have passed the class because I had to retake Algebra at 50 and it almost cracked me.
I made it through and that is what matters.
john27 December 27, 2021 at 20:24 #635883
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hmmm .. you must have passed the class because I had to retake Algebra at 50 and it almost cracked me.
I made it through and that is what matters.


Oh. Well nicely done then, never too late to learn.

Also, my analysis was wrong I think :fear: . I have no idea what it is now that i'm looking at it closely.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 27, 2021 at 20:33 #635885
Quoting john27
I have no idea what it is now that i'm looking at it closely.

And that my friend is the entire subject for a 50 yr old lady who was too busy buying off my teachers with a warm smile and cookies the first time around. :grin:

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 28, 2021 at 00:20 #635950
I don't like to have to shift into Warrior mode but I have to.
frank December 28, 2021 at 12:18 #636086
My prediction for 2022:


User image
Hanover December 28, 2021 at 19:27 #636165
Quoting frank
My prediction for 2022:


I don't understand the prediction. I get that the meteor shower is part of your apocalyptic vision, but I don't understand why you forecast the return of dinosaurs and then have them go extinct all over again. Is it that you think meteor showers follow the dinosaurs, so when you hear them trampling towards you, you know the end is near?
Hanover December 28, 2021 at 19:32 #636167
My prediction for 2022:

User image

This is the Rock of Gibraltar. I predict it will continue to be there.
Jamal December 28, 2021 at 19:35 #636168
My prediction for 2022:

Gibraltar will continue to be a shit hole.
frank December 28, 2021 at 21:10 #636209
Quoting Hanover
Is it that you think meteor showers follow the dinosaurs, so when you hear them trampling towards you, you know the end is near?


Pretty much.
Tom Storm December 28, 2021 at 23:03 #636236
Quoting frank
My prediction for 2022:


Nuh... I think the Republican party will do just fine.
jorndoe December 29, 2021 at 01:06 #636248
:o

Dallas QAnon Cultists Are Drinking Toxic Chemicals from A Communal Bowl, Family Says (Dec 20, 2021)

Thought it was a joke, but it seems to be true.

Noble Dust December 29, 2021 at 05:41 #636296
BC December 29, 2021 at 23:15 #636465
Happy New Year, Schopenhauer1. Here's the perfect New Yorker cartoon to go with the greeting: User image
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 00:08 #636479
2022
I'm going to be safe and make sure I look both ways before I cross the street and I get taken out by a plane.
If past behavior is any indicator of future behavior?
We are fucked
frank December 30, 2021 at 00:19 #636483
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Every asteroid is an opportunity to roast marshmallows.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 00:48 #636495
Quoting frank
Every asteroid is an opportunity to roast marshmallows.


Thank you for highlighting the silver lining that every storm has. Now I have the chocolate and if we can scare up some graham crackers we will be ready to make s'mores. :fire:
frank December 30, 2021 at 01:47 #636511
schopenhauer1 December 30, 2021 at 03:06 #636531
Reply to Bitter Crank
Haha thank you Bitter Crank! Happy New Year.
Hanover December 30, 2021 at 03:32 #636534
My New Year's resolution is to continue deleting emails before reading them because if you have the time to walk down the hall and ask me why the fuck I don't read your emails, you have the time to just tell me what the fuck you wanted to without email.

That and I'm going to join a gym and not go.
Caldwell December 30, 2021 at 05:43 #636568
:grin: @Hanover is funny.

My new year's resolution is to be kind to Hanover.
Noble Dust December 30, 2021 at 05:48 #636570
My New Year's resolution is to stop making jokes about New Year's resolutions. Oh wait, I already fulfilled that resolution years ago.
jorndoe December 30, 2021 at 06:05 #636573
Introducing the ...

Journal of Universal Rejection
reprobatio certa :down: hora incerta

The founding principle of the Journal of Universal Rejection (JofUR) is rejection. Universal rejection. That is to say, all submissions, regardless of quality, will be rejected. Despite that apparent drawback, here are a number of reasons you may choose to submit to the JofUR:

  • You can send your manuscript here without suffering waves of anxiety regarding the eventual fate of your submission. You know with 100% certainty that it will not be accepted for publication.
  • There are no page-fees.
  • You may claim to have submitted to the most prestigious journal (judged by acceptance rate).
  • The JofUR is one-of-a-kind. Merely submitting work to it may be considered a badge of honor.
  • You retain complete rights to your work, and are free to resubmit to other journals even before our review process is complete.
  • Decisions are often (though not always) rendered within hours of submission.


Cuthbert December 30, 2021 at 11:53 #636641
That is a brilliant idea. I will file my copy next to the Journal of Negative Results. This publishes papers that reach no conclusions at all, not even the conclusion that more research is needed.
Hanover December 30, 2021 at 13:19 #636655
Quoting Caldwell
: Hanover is funny.

My new year's resolution is to be kind to Hanover.


Thank you! People really should be nicer to the funny.
frank December 30, 2021 at 13:32 #636659
Quoting Hanover
People really should be nicer to the funny.


That's my new years resolution.
T Clark December 30, 2021 at 15:43 #636704
Quoting Hanover
Thank you! People really should be nicer to the funny.


My resolution is never to make any resolution involving @Hanover. Take that Russell.
frank December 30, 2021 at 19:06 #636829
Stupidest gift ever: a bottle of white-out.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:09 #636831
Quoting frank
Stupidest gift ever: a bottle of white-out.


Please, pass that over here. I'm on page 267 of "our" divorce paperwork....
:angry:
frank December 30, 2021 at 19:10 #636832
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff

Is that an exaggeration?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:12 #636833
Okay answer me this:
First, I think having the expensive wedding is not nearly as important as having it on your tenth annivesary or such because at least you will have proved it will work and by year ten...good lord you need a good reason to throw one hell of a party.
Second, how come it only takes one piece of paper to commit and a couple hundred and counting to divorce?
ANSWERS please
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:12 #636834
Quoting frank
Is that an exaggeration?

nope
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:18 #636835
The total bitch of it all is I have morals and ethics.
So after pressure from my folks, I am actually waiting for the lawyer to tell me if I am allowed to have sex with someone other than my soon to be ex. They don't want a sin to fuck things up for me.
And I the obedient one, do what?
Write them a letter of course....
Jesus
BTW I am 51 years young...I mean seriously?????
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:28 #636841
Imagine a world without women. :worry:
I bet it is some peoples idea of paradise my friend. :shade:
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 19:55 #636850
@Reformed Nihilist It is really good to read you on the boards again.
I trust life has been treating you well. :flower:
praxis December 30, 2021 at 20:02 #636855
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
how come it only takes one piece of paper to commit and a couple hundred and counting to divorce?


It doesn't cost anything to create a human life. A study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million. A morbid metaphor but a point may be in there somewhere.
Reformed Nihilist December 30, 2021 at 20:03 #636856
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Thanks. Been quite a while. Things are well enough I suppose. Hope all is well with you too (and all of you too).
jorndoe December 30, 2021 at 20:07 #636858
Quoting Cosmic latte
Cosmic latte is the average color of the universe, found by a team of astronomers from Johns Hopkins University. In 2002, Karl Glazebrook and Ivan Baldry determined that the average color of the universe was a greenish white, but they soon corrected their analysis in a 2003 paper in which they reported that their survey of the light from over 200,000 galaxies averaged to a slightly beigeish white.


User image

Just so you know.

frank December 30, 2021 at 20:09 #636861
Quoting praxis
A study counted death penalty case costs through to execution and found that the median death penalty case costs $1.26 million.


Wow. We really need to kill more people. It helps the economy.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 20:14 #636862
And I bet I am going to get a bill for the question!
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanoverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 20:17 #636868
Quoting frank
Wow. We really need to kill more people. It helps the economy.

muttering I'm not going there.
jorndoe December 30, 2021 at 20:31 #636880
T Clark December 30, 2021 at 20:44 #636886
Quoting frank
Stupidest gift ever: a bottle of white-out.


Do they still make it? I'd like to get a gift of white-out. I know the money would go to Mike Nesmith.
T Clark December 30, 2021 at 20:49 #636889
Quoting jorndoe
This is why physicists suspect the Multiverse very likely exists (Dec 30, 2021)


Note that this refers to the multiverse associated with cosmic inflation and not the one associated with the multiple worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 20:53 #636893
Quoting T Clark
cosmic inflation

Did Biden cause that inflation too?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 30, 2021 at 20:54 #636895
Gosh...I can't imagine why my question isn't first in the que to respond to.... :roll:
frank December 30, 2021 at 21:07 #636909
Quoting T Clark
Do they still make it? I'd like to get a gift of white-out. I know the money would go to Mike Nesmith.


I bought 4 packs of wite-out tape for a friend who uses it a lot. They got me a gift and I didn't get them one, it's a make-up gift. I also put in chapstick and chocolate covered peanuts.
Caldwell December 30, 2021 at 21:51 #636938
Quoting T Clark
My resolution is never to make any resolution involving Hanover.

That was my new year's resolution last year and before that.

Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
So after pressure from my folks, I am actually waiting for the lawyer to tell me if I am allowed to have sex with someone other than my soon to be ex. They don't want a sin to fuck things up for me.

This is the real Tiff talking now -- the good one. Good God.

Quoting frank
I bought 4 packs of wite-out tape for a friend who uses it a lot. I also put in chapstick and chocolate covered peanuts.

This is when you take the word "utility" too seriously.

Caldwell December 30, 2021 at 21:58 #636944
Baden December 30, 2021 at 23:26 #636986
Quoting frank
Stupidest gift ever: a bottle of white-out.


Why? I bought my significant other cosmic latte whiteout. It's the same average colour as the universe. It reflects my belief in her absolute averageness. Much romance. :halo:
Reformed Nihilist December 30, 2021 at 23:38 #636988
Quoting Caldwell
Welcome back.


Thanks. I'm actually a little surprised at how much of the old guard is still around and kicking on the "new" forum.
Hanover December 30, 2021 at 23:39 #636989
Quoting Baden
Why? I bought my significant other cosmic latte whiteout. It's the same average colour as the universe. It reflects my belief in her absolute averageness. Much romance. :halo:


I got your SO a night of meh sex. I had forgotten to get her anything and it's all I could get her on a moment's notice. So if she was in a bad mood when she got home, you now know why.
Baden December 31, 2021 at 00:01 #636994
Reply to Hanover

Et tu, Doofus? :cry:
Caldwell December 31, 2021 at 01:21 #637024
Quoting Reformed Nihilist
Thanks. I'm actually a little surprised at how much of the old guard is still around and kicking on the "new" forum.

Me too. When I came here in 2018, I thought it was just the continuation of the old forum, so I just welcomed myself here. lol. :)
Hanover December 31, 2021 at 02:07 #637037
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
So after pressure from my folks, I am actually waiting for the lawyer to tell me if I am allowed to have sex with someone other than my soon to be ex. They don't want a sin to fuck things up for me.


You got someone in the queue? Do tell.
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 31, 2021 at 02:30 #637041
Quoting Hanover
You got someone in the queue? Do tell


:flower:
Duckduck December 31, 2021 at 02:40 #637049
@Baden

As I said: power trip! :wink:
praxis December 31, 2021 at 04:00 #637084
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Made sure six ways to Sunday that I am not disrupting his life as that is not what I am about.


Some lives are made for disrupting. Consult with your attorney first, of course.
Outlander December 31, 2021 at 04:06 #637089
If you can't first imagine yourself as a slave and then live it, you could never be a king. Nor should you, for the sake of the people you claim as important.
frank December 31, 2021 at 11:21 #637200
Quoting Baden
I bought my significant other cosmic latte whiteout. It's the same average colour as the universe.


Hope you put some chapstick in with it
Cuthbert December 31, 2021 at 12:20 #637209
Anybody know what happened to the old ephilosopher forum or anyone from there landed up here?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 31, 2021 at 19:49 #637342
Quoting Cuthbert
Anybody know what happened to the old ephilosopher forum or anyone from there landed up here?


I'm sorry that I don't have any answers for you. Maybe if you tossed out a few nicknames it could stir someone's memory.

I myself am still looking for members of MSN Chatroom named Philosophy and Absurdity but I have yet to have any luck.
We are happy that you are here :party:
Caldwell December 31, 2021 at 20:18 #637356
Quoting Cuthbert
Anybody know what happened to the old ephilosopher forum or anyone from there landed up here?

haha! I also checked it out not too long ago. Hoping to go back there, too. I joined it way before I joined the TPF predecessor.

'loved that place. Too bad they're not around anymore.
Hanover December 31, 2021 at 21:08 #637376
User image

Foggy farm.
Caldwell December 31, 2021 at 21:15 #637379
Reply to Hanover Nice! I'm looking at it while listening to It's A Beautiful Day by Lighthouse Family. Coincidentally. Is that your farm?
Shawn December 31, 2021 at 21:18 #637381
*Shouts PIG!*
Baden December 31, 2021 at 21:26 #637383
Reply to Hanover

Your shack and animals are nice. I envy the rustic simplicity of your existence.
Shawn December 31, 2021 at 21:28 #637385
Reply to Hanover

What would profit you would be cultivating bee's for honey and wax.

Are you planning on getting a pig anytime soon?
ArguingWAristotleTiff December 31, 2021 at 22:37 #637408
@Hanover
Why are your animals all socially distancing themselves from one another?
Odd.....
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 00:46 #637447
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Why are your animals all socially distancing themselves from one another?
Odd.....


I told them it was that or masks, so they chose distancing
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 00:48 #637449
Quoting Shawn
What would profit you would be cultivating bee's for honey and wax.


I might, but a single hive produces like 20 pounds of honey annually, and I typically eat 1 pound per lifetime, so I'd be left with extra for the great great grandkids.
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 00:53 #637450
Quoting Baden
Your shack and animals are nice. I envy the rustic simplicity of your existence.


That shack is my house and it's over run with animals. Life is hard but honest, but thanks for your envy.
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 00:55 #637453
Quoting Caldwell
is that your farm?

It is. We named it One Peachtree Farm after the single peachtree we planted in the front yard. The tree hasn't done well though, so it's now called One Peachtwig Farm.
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 01:03 #637455
Quoting Hanover
I told them it was that or masks, so they chose distancing

Yeah, I get that. My dogs asked me who I bit because I was wearing a mask like they would have to wear a muzzle.

ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 01:04 #637456
Quoting Hanover
I might, but a single hive produces like 20 pounds of honey annually, and I typically eat 1 pound per lifetime, so I'd be left with extra for the great great grandkids.

Holy cannollii! Dude, do you have any idea how many carbs are in a teaspoon of honey?

ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 01:06 #637457
Happy New Year's my friends :party:
Someone said that whatever you are doing on new years is a good indicator of who and where will occupy much of your next year!
Happy to be here. :flower:
Now who wants to be in charge of my non acholic meltdown when I realize it is likely the last one here at the ranch.
Oh well...
If I knew the way, I would take you home :flower:
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 01:16 #637459
Quoting Hanover
That shack is my house and it's over run with animals. Life is hard but honest, but thanks for your envy.


Your simply must look online for rustic farmhouse style goat shacks. You know it makes people who live in the suburbs feel like they have farms. :joke:
Caldwell January 01, 2022 at 01:29 #637462
Quoting Hanover
It is. We named it One Peachtree Farm after the single peachtree we planted in the front yard. The tree hasn't done well though, so it's now called One Peachtwig Farm.

Peach trees are beautiful no matter what condition. Haha! :grin:

Shawn January 01, 2022 at 01:37 #637468
Too bad it's a faux pas in the US to show your bank account to another person just to show off how wealthy you are.

Baden January 01, 2022 at 01:45 #637470
Happy New Year y'all :party: :party: :party:
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 01:54 #637475
@Baden :party:
Caldwell January 01, 2022 at 02:03 #637478
Happy New Year! User image
Srap Tasmaner January 01, 2022 at 02:08 #637480
Quoting Hanover
That shack is my house and it's over run with animals.


Raymond Douglas Davies:It's a quiet, quiet life
By a dirty old shack
That we called our home
I want to be back there
Among the cats and dogs
And the pigs and the goats
On Animal Farm


Tom Storm January 01, 2022 at 02:29 #637488
Reply to Srap Tasmaner I see that photo and hear this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD5ycbCKg7Y
Outlander January 01, 2022 at 02:42 #637491
Quoting Shawn
faux pas


This reminds me of a good joke in the States. I'm tempted to look it up but basically someone is inquiring about an item to which the person replies "that's a faux pas". He responds "Oh you mean I just made a regrettable remark or action in a social situation where based on one or more circumstances renders it inappropriate?" The guy just stares at him for a second. "No that's just-a fo' pa. He needs that to walk." - "You alright back there, pa?" he shouts down the hallway to a response of wheezing and coughing from the distance. "He's fine."

Unfortunately it's more of a slapstick gag, the chances of this joke occurring organically would be astronomical.

Happy New Year. Here's a picture of hundreds of rabbits, which interestingly enough is called a "fluffle".
User image
Srap Tasmaner January 01, 2022 at 03:11 #637494
Reply to Tom Storm I’m pretty that one was based on a story @Hanover told Tom once over jug of moonshine.
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 03:12 #637495
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Your simply must look online for rustic farmhouse style goat shacks. You know it makes people who live in the suburbs feel like they have farms. :joke:


I live beyond the burbs. I'm zoned agriculture, which among other things, I can slaughter sheep, sell produce from my driveway, burn my garbage, and bury my relatives in the backyard. My last house, I had to get my house paint color approved by the HOA. That's suburbia.
Hanover January 01, 2022 at 03:16 #637496
Quoting Srap Tasmaner
I’m pretty that one was based on a story Hanover told Tom once over jug of moonshine.


That song was played at the first dance at both my weddings.
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 03:46 #637501
Quoting Hanover
I live beyond the burbs. I'm zoned agriculture, which among other things, I can slaughter sheep

Yeah... about the sheep you were trying to help?....

ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 03:47 #637502
Quoting Hanover
That song was played at the first dance at both my weddings.


You scare me sometimes :yikes:
BTW...my attorney gave me permission :party:
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 01, 2022 at 04:39 #637504
It's pouring rain here....
Nice way to cleanse the desert of 2021!
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 05:06 #637506
Happy New Year!

I ate too much duck last night.
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 05:27 #637510
Happy new year all! :sparkle: :party: :sparkle:
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 05:30 #637511
Quoting jamalrob
Happy New Year!

I ate too much duck last night.


I am proud of you. You should be honored. It is noble to make ducks pay for their crimes against humanity. They are heinous crimes and too numerous to list. And duck does taste good...
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 05:40 #637512
Reply to Tobias Thank you, but I have to defend the ducks against your scurrilous accusations. In my opinion, it is not only I who should be honoured, but also the duck itself.

Quoting Tobias
And duck does taste good...


Particularly when roasted on a rack, the fat dripping down on to the potatoes below.
Noble Dust January 01, 2022 at 05:48 #637514
I recently had Chinese country style duck for the first time. Life changing stuff. The skin is not crispy like with Peking Duck, but the meat is insanely juicy and flavorful. Served with razor-thin sliced pickled daikon radish.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 05:56 #637515
Reply to Noble Dust How is it cooked?
Noble Dust January 01, 2022 at 06:02 #637517
Reply to jamalrob

I had no idea so I googled it and came up with this old article about the exact spot I got the dish from. The author says

Unlike roast Cantonese duck, the Country-Style Duck or lo soi duck is braised in a master stock made of soy sauce and various spices, including cloves and star anise.


That checks out, I would say. Also apparently they've had their share of health code violations in the past. :groan: I felt right as rain after eating there, so...
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 06:05 #637518
Reply to Noble Dust Ah, braised. That's what I was wondering.

I roasted mine and managed to achieve around 30% crispiness.
Noble Dust January 01, 2022 at 06:08 #637520
Reply to jamalrob

Hmm, I've never attempted to cook it myself; seems intimidating. Did you retain much moisture in the meat? When you say 30% crispiness, are you saying 70% of the skin was not crispy? :chin:
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 06:12 #637521
Quoting Noble Dust
Did you retain much moisture in the meat?


Yes, it was extremely juicy.

Quoting Noble Dust
When you say 30% crispiness, are you saying 70% of the skin was not crispy?


Yes, but maybe more than 30% now I think about it. The skin on the breast wasn't crispy. It didn't matter.

It was the first time I'd done it, and it was easy. I ignored all the elaborate methods I found online and just roasted it without fuss for two hours, basting a couple of times.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 06:14 #637522
Oh yeah, I stuffed it with an apple, a pear, and eight garlic cloves.
Noble Dust January 01, 2022 at 06:18 #637524
Reply to jamalrob

Damn, that sounds awesome. I'll have to give it a shot sometime. Personally my recent cooking obsession has been Thai curries.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 06:23 #637527
Quoting Noble Dust
Personally my recent cooking obsession has been Thai curries.


I approve.
Noble Dust January 01, 2022 at 06:26 #637529
Reply to jamalrob

It's all about the right ingredients. I'm fortunate in that there's a Thai grocery half an hour away from me. They have everything.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 06:33 #637530
Reply to Noble Dust Yeah I've got one of those nearby, and I keep meaning to go.
Cuthbert January 01, 2022 at 10:10 #637553
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Why thank you, ArguingWAristotleTiff! And likewise glad you are here. It's so long ago (ephilosoper) I can't remember any nicknames.
john27 January 01, 2022 at 10:53 #637559
Happy new year!
john27 January 01, 2022 at 10:54 #637561
Oh, I'm late.
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 12:19 #637565
Quoting jamalrob
Particularly when roasted on a rack, the fat dripping down on to the potatoes below.


Hmmm..... I have a hangover that could debilitate an entire village, but this mae me instantly hungry. Actually this whole duck cooking sub topic does! Well done. Today I will have rabbit though. I still have some left overs...
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 12:26 #637566
Reply to Tobias I like rabbit, especially back legs cooked in the pan with red wine and garlic.

Enjoy!
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 13:22 #637581
Thanks! I have back legs cooked Normandy style, so in apple cider, calvados, cream and garlic. Mash and brussel sprouts on the side.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 13:28 #637584
Reply to Tobias Excellent, I approve. I've done chicken that way.

I didn't use calvados though, that must work nicely. A long time ago I ordered a glass of calvados to conclude the meal in a London restaurant, and the waiter brought me a massive leather-bound calvados menu, which was about twenty pages long. That's when I realized I was out of my depth.
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 14:13 #637590
Quoting jamalrob
I didn't use calvados though, that must work nicely. A long time ago I ordered a glass of calvados to conclude the meal in a London restaurant, and the waiter brought me a massive leather-bound calvados menu, which was about twenty pages long. That's when I realized I was out of my depth.


Wow, that must have been quite some place. It is apple brandy, in a nutshell, and I prefer it to coognac as a way to close a meal. There must be hundreds of kinds, but thankfully my liquor store onlly has a few, so no such anxiety. I do notice that because of covid, I tend to buy more luxurious produce, better meat, higher quality wine and the drinks I pour (for guests usually seldom on my own) have also increased in price. I recently bought a 50 euro bottle of calvados which in the past I did not do. Not to feed it to the rabid for that I still have a lower end variety at hand.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 15:54 #637602
Quoting Tobias
There must be hundreds of kinds


I think at the time I was ignorant of this fact, being more used to restaurants that had one or zero bottles of it available.

I am tempted now to go and buy some and try your Normandy rabbit.
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 16:28 #637603
Ohh that be nice @jamarob do tell how it will have worked out. I think the common method is to 'flamber' the rabbit with it. I usually just use it to deglaze first, evaporating will leave the essence. Whatever you will be having today, cheers and enjoy!
javi2541997 January 01, 2022 at 17:11 #637611
Hello again. It has passed some months since the last time I posted here but I want to wish you a happy new year 2022 :party:
T Clark January 01, 2022 at 18:44 #637631
Quoting javi2541997
Hello again. It has passed some months since the last time I posted here but I want to wish you a happy new year 2022 :party:


It's good to hear from you again. Happy New Year, or, as we say here in the US, feliz Año Nuevo.
Jamal January 01, 2022 at 20:48 #637663
Quoting Tobias
Whatever you will be having today, cheers and enjoy!


Thanks! It was duck, again. :grin:
Tobias January 01, 2022 at 21:41 #637683
"Behold the duck
It does not cluck
a cluck it lacks
it quacks
It is specially fond
Of a puddle or pond.
When it dines or sups,
It bottoms ups.

Ogden Nash
BC January 01, 2022 at 23:03 #637727
Quoting Tobias
feed it to the rabid


Rabid or rable? Inviting the rabid over for lunch could pose a substantial risk to your wellbeing. A garlic garland around your neck won't help, btw. I'm much closer to rable than rabid, but I would very much prefer the upmarket bottle, thank you. And your best efforts with Normandy rabbit would be appreciated as well.

A better New Year to you and all.
Shawn January 01, 2022 at 23:44 #637750
Reply to Bitter Crank
*The Eye of Providence is looking at you.*
Tobias January 02, 2022 at 00:32 #637763
Quoting Bitter Crank
Rabid or rable? Inviting the rabid over for lunch could pose a substantial risk to your wellbeing. A garlic garland around your neck won't help, btw. I'm much closer to rable than rabid, but I would very much prefer the upmarket bottle, thank you. And your best efforts with Normandy rabbit would be appreciated as well.


:rofl: I always have that issue with the word rabbit, I blame a small brush with dyslexia, Hey you gotta blame something in life. Of course, the upmarket bottle it will be, liquid gold Mister Crank, goes down very smoothly after the apple clad bunny from Normandy...
BC January 02, 2022 at 02:00 #637780
Reply to Shawn A better new year to you. Have you abandoned wallowing for gazing? Abandoned swine for Providence? A major upgrade, to say the least. How much does that enhancement cost? Is it covered by health insurance?

It is very cold this early evening -- 10º below zero F. The low for tonight is supposed to be around -20º F with some wind. Which is not a problem. Cold weather kills vermin like wood ticks which moose and deer appreciate. It also discourages riff raff from moving here which the natives appreciate.
Hanover January 02, 2022 at 02:26 #637782
I ate a really expensive ribeye steak last night for my anniversary dinner. I wish I remembered the name. It started with an S. I do remember the price. It was $65 for an 8 ounce steak. If I only could remember the name, I could join this conversation about good eats, but instead I just have to listen. I got a free cheesecake at the end that said happy anniversary. It tasted especially good.

Hanover January 02, 2022 at 02:35 #637785
Quoting Bitter Crank
is very cold this early evening -- 10º below zero F. The low for tonight is supposed to be around -20º F with some wind. Which is not a problem. Cold weather kills vermin like wood ticks which moose and deer appreciate. It also discourages riff raff from moving here which the natives appreciate.


It's been crazy warm here this winter. It was in the 70s today. The vet noticed a flea on my dog, so I gave her a flea pill that I typically stop giving in the winter.

Had my bags packed and was going to be your neighbor, but hearing your weather forecast, I'm staying put. This time you kept out the elite, not the riff raff.

Do y'all eat fried cheese chunks up there or is that just a Wisconsin thing? I was up there a while ago, and that seemed to be a staple. Interesting physique the Wisconsinite maintains.
T Clark January 02, 2022 at 02:39 #637787
Quoting Bitter Crank
It is very cold this early evening -- 10º below zero F. The low for tonight is supposed to be around -20º F with some wind.


I like your part of the world. I came to St. Paul on business once in February. It was about 20 below then too. When I picked up my rental car, along with all the paperwork they gave me a writeup on how not to freeze to death if I broke down.
BC January 02, 2022 at 04:18 #637796
Quoting Hanover
Do y'all eat fried cheese chunks up there or is that just a Wisconsin thing?


Minnesotans flock to the state fair in order to gobble fried cheese, fried corn dogs (disgusting), fried ice cream, fried snickers, fried tunafish hotdish, fried southerner (tastes like pork), and fried grease.

True Story: a woman from Kenya was visiting the Minneapolis office; we went for a walk. During the stroll, she asked us why American blacks looked so much different than Africans. I thought she was asking about racial mixing. What she was actually wondering about was why American / Minnesotan blacks were so fat. (Perhaps she had politely overlooked all of the fat whites.).

Why are so many people here fat?. obviously, because there are a lot of lazy slobs eating too much. I've been to Kenya and Uganda and you don't see many fat people there. (Alas, I was once svelte; then I got fat. Fat people, alas alas, tend to stay fat. Cancer, AIDS, flesh-eating strep, and tapeworms are all cost-effective weight loss tools, but with medical advances, their effectiveness is failing. Vaccinations are ruining Covid-19 as a weight loss device too.

Parts of Georgia--maybe all of it--are in the area the CDC calls "the slim fried fish belt". Fried, smoked, char broiled, BBQed meat plus too much starch and sugar, smoking and drinking, innervating hot weather, and plentiful fire arms kill off a lot of southerners before they get fat.
Noble Dust January 02, 2022 at 04:23 #637798
Quoting Bitter Crank
fried tunafish hotdish


What in the world is that?
Hanover January 02, 2022 at 04:30 #637799
Reply to Bitter Crank We keep our fat people at Wal-mart. If Southerners are slimming up, maybe meth is bringing that about, but I've not noticed that trend. I couldn't find a reference to the slim fried fish belt, so not sure what that is.

I stayed at a VRBO in Paris, and the owner had a photo album on the coffee table I flipped through. He had a whole section of fat American asses he photographed on a trip to DC.

I think it's an American thing, not just MN, DC, or GA. Maybe in Utah they're thin. Those Mormons and their clean living and all.
Hanover January 02, 2022 at 04:33 #637800
Quoting Noble Dust
What in the world is that?


I think they sink the tuna, can and all, into a deep fryer until the can is a toasty brown, and they serve it on a bed of marshmallows.
T Clark January 02, 2022 at 04:36 #637801
We're reading some Keats in one of the threads. This is my favorite of the poems we've read so far.

I bought two urns from Jack and Reese
Jack told me that they came from Greece
I paid for one when the sale was done
I owe two pounds on the second one.
BC January 02, 2022 at 04:39 #637802
Reply to Noble Dust Budget tuna fish hot dish is a melange of noodles, store brand budget cream of mushroom soup, the cheapest tuna fish, and who knows, maybe Velveeta cheese-like plastic. I've never eaten fried tuna fish hot dish at the State Fair (and never will). My guess is that it is a baked concoction that is cooled, cut into cubes, put on a stick, dipped in batter, and then fried in a vat of hot, old vegetable oil that had previously fried onions, shrimp, fish, and roadkill.

Upscale tuna fish hot dish is made out of egg noodles, Campbell's better cream soups, asparagus or broccoli, garlic, sour cream, up-market tuna fish, mushrooms, and parmesan cheese. At best it is not haute cuisine, but I like the upscale version.

"Hot dish" in Minnesota is what sophisticated people call "casserole".
T Clark January 02, 2022 at 04:42 #637803
Quoting Bitter Crank
"Hot dish" in Minnesota is what sophisticated people call "casserole".


As a sophisticated person, from Massachusetts no less, I can tell you we don't call anything "casserole."
Noble Dust January 02, 2022 at 04:50 #637806
Reply to Bitter Crank Reply to T Clark

As an extremely sophisticated person from Ohio, I can confirm we would call that a casserole. And to be honest, I would try it, it sounds kind of amazing. But then again I'm a garbage disposal.
T Clark January 02, 2022 at 04:53 #637808
Quoting Noble Dust
extremely sophisticated person from Ohio,


That's the first time I've seen "sophisticated" in the same sentence as "Ohio." My experience of sophistication in Ohio is the drive through liquor stores near Ohio State.
Noble Dust January 02, 2022 at 04:56 #637809
Reply to T Clark

Oh we're sophisticated alright, you have us to thank for Wendy's, Cincinnati Chili and Polish Boys...
T Clark January 02, 2022 at 04:58 #637810
Quoting Noble Dust
Oh we're sophisticated alright, you have us to thank for Wendy's, Cincinnati Chili and Polish Boys...


No, no, you're thinking of sophistimicated. That's different.
BC January 02, 2022 at 08:24 #637835
Reply to Hanover Oh yeah, meth. I haven't tried that yet. You never see fat meth addicts, now that I think about it. Of course, maybe meth users are all thin to start with.

Fried Fish Belt and Stroke.

Google alert: Google can not tell the difference between "fried fish belt" and "fried belt fish". Search for "public health fried fish belt".

On the fat front, 30% of Minnesotans are obese (never mind overweight).

BC January 02, 2022 at 08:54 #637843
According to Google Ngram, hot dish or hotdish have never been very popular in printed text. Peak hot dish was 1895 give or take. Casserole has always been much more common than hot dishes, and peak casserole reached was in 2010.

"The word "hotdish" was first used in a 1930 Minnesotan cookbook published by the Grace Lutheran Ladies Aid. This landmark recipe called for hamburger meat, onions, celery, canned peas, canned tomato soup, and Creamettes — Minnesota-made macaroni — all to be stirred together and baked. Hey, that sounds familiar." so Google says.

"Creamettes" used to be the only brand of pasta available. In many towns it still is.

A popular dish in Minnesota is 'tater tot hot dish'. It's hamburger, onions, mushroom soup, sour cream, green beans, I suppose. Be careful, though -- this shouldn't turn into green bean / mushroom soup hotdish with canned fried onions on top -- a holiday must in many families, for some reason. Popular as funeral lunch items at churches. You might want to have tater tot hot dish at your post-funeral lunch.

How did Tater Tots end up on hot dish?

According to Deutsch, the product did not sell well at first, so Ore-Ida decided to market it as toppings for casserole. Hotdish is common terminology in western Wisconsin and Minnesota, while casserole is the preferred name everywhere else in the country. (CBS News)
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 02, 2022 at 14:09 #637895
Am I the only one here who thinks of a "hot dish" like a "stud muffin"? :kiss:
Maybe I should go to church? Nah, that doesn't seem right. :fire:
Hey @Hanover when do we Jewish repent and where? :sparkle:
Hanover January 02, 2022 at 16:03 #637920
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Hey Hanover when do we Jewish repent and where? :sparkle:


That question makes me question your Jewishness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur
Caldwell January 02, 2022 at 17:11 #637938
I haven't seen @James Riley in a while. Anyone has news on him?
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 02, 2022 at 19:48 #637983
Quoting Caldwell
I haven't seen James Riley in a while. Anyone has news on him?

I don't have anything for you Caldwell, I am sorry.
~Handing you a cup of coffee~ :heart:


Caldwell January 02, 2022 at 20:29 #637995
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 02, 2022 at 20:57 #637999
I'm going back to 1988...does anyone need anything?
Caldwell January 02, 2022 at 22:08 #638016
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'm going back to 1988...does anyone need anything?

Yes, gallons of gas for $1.10 per gallon.
BC January 03, 2022 at 01:52 #638096
Just watched DOUBLE INDEMNITY (1944) - film noir. It's about pasta -- macaroni, baby, and make it snappy. Walter Neff has discovered Los Angeles stores selling canned macaroni -- something new and subversive--clearly a nazi plot. Or commies. They're both trying to destroy the American way of life, casseroles and all. (They are still trying -- Chef Boyardee still makes canned ravioli.)

User image
jorndoe January 03, 2022 at 03:09 #638108
User image
Caldwell January 03, 2022 at 03:38 #638118
Reply to jorndoe
Sorry, 'couldn't resist. The Earth revolves around the sun. :)
I still appreciate the enthusiastic celebration just the same.

Quoting Bitter Crank
Chef Boyardee still makes canned ravioli.

Subversion.

Shawn January 03, 2022 at 03:46 #638119
Reply to Bitter Crank

Imagine what would happen if they disclosed Macaroni & Cheese back then? There's be strikes and lynching all over the neighborhoods.
Shawn January 03, 2022 at 04:32 #638134
Seems like I was wrong again. Macaroni and Cheese from Kraft has been around from 1937.

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+old+is+macaroni+%26+cheese
Hel January 03, 2022 at 09:16 #638175
Happy New Year everyone - I hope it is going to be a better year for all of us.
Tobias January 03, 2022 at 09:39 #638180
Inshallah, Hel. All the best to you too.
jorndoe January 03, 2022 at 17:50 #638259
Reply to Caldwell, I noticed as well ([s]rotation[/s] orbit).
Just gave me a good chuckle that I thought I'd pass on. :D

Hope everyone got well into 2022.

ArguingWAristotleTiff January 03, 2022 at 19:07 #638284
Quoting jorndoe
Hope everyone got well into 2022.


Limping, disheveled and lacking wine? :confused:

It's got to be better than the last two years! :pray:
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 03, 2022 at 19:08 #638285
Quoting Hel
Happy New Year everyone - I hope it is going to be a better year for all of us.


Hiya Hel!
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Enjoy your stay~
SophistiCat January 03, 2022 at 20:26 #638309
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
Limping, disheveled and lacking wine?


But plenty of whine! :razz: :party: :heart:
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 03, 2022 at 21:20 #638330
Quoting SophistiCat
But plenty of whine! :razz: :party: :heart:


You read my mind!
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 03, 2022 at 21:21 #638331
@Sir2u
Where are you?
Shawn January 03, 2022 at 23:43 #638378
@unenlightened come back!
Sir2u January 04, 2022 at 00:35 #638397
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff I am still around, somewhere.

I have been running around in circle doing decorating, repairs and some building in the house. Then falling into bed early every night.

Did I miss anything important or interesting?
Sir2u January 04, 2022 at 00:38 #638401
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'm going back to 1988...does anyone need anything?


I only want to know how you are going to do it! And Can I get back to somewhere between 68 and 70?
Caldwell January 04, 2022 at 02:11 #638429
Quoting jorndoe
Hope everyone got well into 2022.

:up:

Reply to Sir2u

Hi Sir2u.
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 04, 2022 at 02:13 #638430
Quoting Sir2u
I only want to know how you are going to do it! And Can I get back to somewhere between 68 and 70?


I'll be back in a jiffy!
Happy New Years!
Sir2u January 04, 2022 at 03:12 #638443
Quoting Caldwell
Hi Sir2u.


:smile: Hi there too, hows things been?
Sir2u January 04, 2022 at 03:16 #638448
Happy new year to one and all, even if you don't deserve it. :wink:
We all have another chance to be the person we should really be and do the things we want to do. Make your resolutions and try to keep to them.

But to hell with that, I am happy with who I am and I refuse to make promises to things I want to do because I can't afford to do them anyway.
Sir2u January 04, 2022 at 03:19 #638450
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'll be back in a jiffy!
Happy New Years!


Happy new year to you as well dear lady.

OK, now out with it. I need to get back to some time before 1970 so that I can stop myself having an accident that still screws up my life today.
T Clark January 04, 2022 at 03:32 #638456
Quoting Sir2u
I need to get back to some time before 1970 so that I can stop myself having an accident that still screws up my life today.


I fantasize about that kind of thing sometimes, but then I realize that almost any change I made that long ago would make it so my children would never have been born. Can't do anything like that.
ArguingWAristotleTiff January 04, 2022 at 15:30 #638655
Quoting Sir2u
Happy new year to you as well dear lady.


Quoting Sir2u
Ok, now out with it. I need to get back to some time before 1970 so that I can stop myself having an accident that still screws up my life today.

I have a time travelling machine on order but I got word that it is on a shipping container off the shore of Long Beach, CA.
Trust me you will be the second to know once I get it! :party:
In all seriousness, I am glad you are doing ok. Thank you for being you!! :flower:

ArguingWAristotleTiff January 04, 2022 at 15:31 #638656
Quoting Sir2u
But to hell with that, I am happy with who I am and I refuse to make promises to things I want to do because I can't afford to do them anyway.


Have a seat and a cold one, rest your mind and body for a bit. :flower: