I would just turn it into a competition and injure myself.
ValentinusSeptember 29, 2021 at 01:33#6017460 likes
Tai Chi Chuan is good. Six Harmony Boxing. The Five Animals style.
You will "feel the burn" if done vigorously, either fast or slow. Slow is more difficult.
But in the Moscow winter, it's my only exercise, so... I might try those rollers so I can ride my actual bike indoors.
You could go outside and run, I suppose, even in the Moscow winter. I used to run in the winter, even in very cold temps; I liked it. But in Moscow, Putin's henchmen might view you the same way a hunting dog views a running rabbit: Game.
The resale value of indoor exercise bikes is very low -- lots of one-time owners gave up on them, and they weren't that useful as clothes racks.
Thanks for disambiguating fixed gear and single gear bikes.
Makes you wonder what other freaky surprises old age has in store
Oh, you know -- frailty, disease, failing senses, incontinence, senility, and with any luck death, sooner rather than later if everything is going haywire. Some people do make it to 100+ with their faculties intact and bodies more or less operating. If one is 100+ and also happy, that's great.
I would just turn it into a competition and injure myself.
:roll:
Somebody needs to take you in hand, dear boy.
Talking about that - the palm of your right hand - a spot of bother there too ?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/601553
Looks a bit red...friction burn ?
Pilates improves your sex life.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/pilates-benefits#benefits
I would advise a few 1:1 sessions to ensure optimum position and right muscles switched on.
Fixed gear now, not just single speed. The difference is huge. But I can get boring about this subject so I'll stop here. Sweet dreams.
OK, for me, that sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Yeah, I've gone on a bit about Pilates but it has helped me in the last couple of months.
I could bore a stone to tears. But I would do it with greater lung capacity, better breathing, more awareness of body tension/posture and I could lift a heavier stone by engaging the core muscles.
Needed 1:1 supervision but after you get the drift...
As for sweet dreams. That didn't happen. Nightmare. Lancing. :vomit:
You could go outside and run, I suppose, even in the Moscow winter. I used to run in the winter, even in very cold temps; I liked it.
I very much dislike running and my knees are not up to it anyway. Sometimes in winter I go for a long brisk walk, puffing down the icy avenues like Trotsky's war train on the way to the front.
As for sweet dreams. That didn't happen. Nightmare. Lancing.
— Amity
Sorry.
Yeah. So now I've got to take an LFT test to make sure I didn't catch anything :grimace:
Self-testing - no lancing involved just a swab-stick around the throat and nostril.
Worth it so that I can visit my sister :mask:
Both of us will soon have our 3rd covid vaccination - the booster - and the flu one.
No wonder I'm having nightmares...
I would just turn it into a competition and injure myself.
The thing about Pilates, yoga, and some other workouts - about 95% of the people in class are women. I mean, come on. Who wants to hang around with men?
Reply to T Clark A biologist buddy of mine (we were roommates back in college) drove up to Hawk Ridge north of Duluth a week ago to photograph a large migration of hawks from more northerly areas to less northerly ones. Unfortunately, they missed it. The DNR said that a storm on Lake Superior had thrown the pattern off, and the birds had used a slightly more westerly route -- they don't fly over big lakes, anyway, but the storm caused them to move a few miles away from their usual flyway along the edge of the lake.
Birds of a feather
Flocking together
To avoid stormy weather
Led to birding displeasure.
Follow up on my arm... The doctor said I'm going to need a bionic arm, so I scheduled that. Since I'm going under, I went ahead and scheduled the 2 foot chin implant I've always wanted to get at the same time. It will be bionic too.
I could have made a penis joke here, but I've matured some since going through all this and that's just not who I am anymore.
Either that or birds don't cross the Russian border.
I think the birds still have a boycott because of that guy in Belarus. Maybe they don't like Putin either.
Speaking of Putin, if you don't mind if I pry. What is your citizenship? How is it living on a day to day basis in Russia? Do you feel safe? Can you move around anywhere you like? How does that compare to a normal Russian? Again, if it's none of my business, just ignore the question.
British only, but I now have temporary residency in Russia, which lasts for five years. I might go for citizenship later (once I learn the language, basically).
How is it living on a day to day basis in Russia? Do you feel safe? Can you move around anywhere you like?
Daily life is good in Moscow, and more interesting and diverse than I've experienced before because I've never lived in a megacity. Moscow feels very safe, safer and cleaner than any other European city I've been to. Everywhere else I've been in Russia is similar, though things quickly get worse in other ways as you move further from the big cities, especially infrastructure. But I've never had any trouble. I was attacked for being a foreigner in Spain a few times, but that hasn't happened here.
I live about 45 minutes cycle ride from the Kremlin, so I'm not on the outskirts, but I've been all over the city and the only dodgy part I've found was the area that has a cluster of 4 big railway terminals. Just like any city, the railway stations are not great places to hang out. But I did stay in an apartment there for 2 weeks and the worst that happened was that I was awoken repeatedly at around 5 AM by drunkards singing songs from Soviet movies.
I can do what I like. There's a sense of freedom here that I don't get in Western Europe (sounds like a kind of romanticism but there's more to it than that). In a nutshell, if you don't cause trouble for the government and don't commit any crimes, you can do what the hell you like here and nobody will bother you. Many people disregard the rules as far as possible and mostly don't get into trouble. That can be unnerving, like in the provinces when taxi drivers are offended if you try to fasten your seat belt--but it's cool.
When you ask if I can move around, I guess you mean within the country? Yes, it's no problem. I need to carry my passport with residency stamp wherever I go, just in case, but there's no trouble. If you mean within the city, the only problem is the horrendous traffic, but I haven't been molested by any police, security forces, mafia, or other troublesome characters.
It's not like living in a totalitarian state, if that's what you're getting at.
Not really, well maybe a little. We hear so much about Putin, oligarchs, corruption, repression of dissent. I was just looking for some perspective. Thanks.
I might go for citizenship later (once I learn the language, basically).
Would that require giving up your British citizenship? That's not concerning in some way? I grew up in the cold war, so my opinions are affected by that, but you have the same trust in that government as you do with the British government?
One thing that I don't like is that people (Russians) accept that they have to carry their passports wherever they go, to answer to the authorities when the need arises. There's more toleration for intrusive bureaucracy than in Britain. So there's no principle of liberty in that sense, but practically, people seem just as free (except for political dissent).
I'm not the kind of guy who goes on cruises, but I went on a cruise. Moscow to the Caspain Sea, 2000+ kilometres down the Volga, going through several (semi? ish?)-autonomous republics like Chuvashia and Tatarstan. One day it's all orthodox churches by the riverbank, next day it's all mosques. Then it's back to orthodox churches again. And one day it's pissing down and freezing, next day it's hot and people are swimming in the river.
As a foreign traveller, you just revel in that diversity. You don't have enough of a hold on things to take a stand, politically. I'm a polite and occasionally critical observer.
I'd never give up my British citizenship. I don't think I'd have to, but I'm not sure. I keep meaning to check that.
Looks like it's ok with the Russians that you be a dual citizen:
https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2020-05-01/russia-new-law-eliminates-requirement-to-renounce-foreign-citizenship/
Looks like it's ok with the British to be a dual citizen:
https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship
Might want to double check before you make the plunge, but it looks like from a brief Google check you're good to go.
Reply to jamalrob The migration pattern map of the UK to Russia shows a single person, largely inhabiting a few blocks of Moscow, with one trip up and down the Volga river.
Likely the result of a damaged internal migratory compass.
It's possible. She did have a short relationship with a spy many years before we met. Whenever I bring it up she says "I don't want to talk about it." :chin:
Looking back, I wish I had not inherited the Japanese stoicism of my maternal family. Stoicism can only get you so far; sometimes you must seek support. I wish too that my father and I had leant on the local community more after my mother’s death instead of shutting ourselves away from the world. And it would also have been helpful if I’d been able to recognise the difference between grief and depression...
In 2020, as the first national lockdown began, my dad, then 83, rang me from his nursing home. He complained that another resident was coming in and out of the home without taking any precautions to prevent spreading the virus. “Why are you so angry?” I asked. “Because I want you to have a father still!” he replied.
He was right to worry. Shortly after this phone call, my father caught Covid. Like more than 10,000 other people in care homes in Britain, he died from complications caused by the virus...
Many things helped at the time, but one thing saved me from despair. My psychologist would call me at the same time I would usually speak to my father. His calls were the tonic I craved. I needed someone to know how badly I was hurting inside, how desperately I wanted to speak to my father, and how severely the loss of my family had suddenly hit me two decades later...
I had an epiphany shortly afterwards. I was drinking too much, smoking too much and eating too much. It suddenly dawned on me that my family did not waste a single minute of their lives; they lived and loved fiercely every single day. I needed to do the same.
I went to a tax foreclosure auction. It was interesting. It was for 6 acres with a mobile home on it.
The opening bid was $25,000 and it sold for $45,000. It appeared to me that some social dominance may have been a factor, although maybe I'm projecting.
I can see how auctions like that would be great during a housing bubble collapse. Maybe we'll get another one. :pray:
I can see how auctions like that would be great during a housing bubble collapse. Maybe we'll get another one.
Before you buy any property like that, especially a commercial or industrial one, make sure you won't be liable for any environmental impacts to the property. The way many environmental laws are set up, if you buy a property, you take on full responsibility unless you have followed very specific legal and regulatory procedures.
Before you buy any property like that, especially a commercial or industrial one, make sure you won't be liable for any environmental impacts to the property
Yep. I fell in love with this former car mechanic shop. I need to find out if it has a buried waste tank or something.
Reply to T Clark
Ok, thanks. Have you bought any foreclosed properties by any chance?
Jeese. I just googled car mechanic hazardous waste. They're the largest producers of toxic waste among small businesses and the land around the shop is likely thoroughly contaminated. I'm not bidding on that.
Ok, thanks. Have you bought any foreclosed properties by any chance?
No, but I practiced as an environmental engineer cleaning up contaminated sites for 30 years. Buying a site that is contaminated or may be contaminated is not something you do without a clear understanding of your liabilities. Most of my clients were caught in that trap, sometimes on purpose - they decided that the costs of cleanup were worth it to get a valuable piece of property. That's called "brownfields" - cleaning up and reusing a contaminated property.
Wow. How much does it cost to clean up a site like that? Do they have to take the dirt away?
It varies. There's no way to tell without doing your homework. Even then, there are likely to be surprises. On the low end, the costs might only be for doing a due diligence evaluation. That can cost a couple of thousand dollars. Depending on who is selling the property, that might already be done. If it's being sold by a bank, there's a good chance it has been. They're called Phase 1 Environmental Site Assessments (ESAs).
Reply to T Clark
This property is sold as-is by the county for failure to pay property taxes. Bidders aren't allowed on the property.
The county wouldn't have the money to do that kind of assessment, I don't think. It would be on the buyer.
What attracted me to it is that there's an 11 acre land-locked plot behind it that has a creek. I would hand that over to the nature conservancy people, but I bet that creek is being contaminated by the mechanic shop. :grimace:
What attracted me to it is that there's an 11 acre land-locked plot behind it that has a creek.
First off, the acres behind the shop would be a great place for the shop owners to dump their waste oil. I used to work in a wood shop next to a railroad track. We used to dump our used solvents and finishes on the tracks. Other people could also dump stuff there. I've been on properties where unknown people dumped drums of chemical waste behind the facility without the owner knowing or caring.
You should probably talk to a lawyer before buying anything like that. Do you know anyone who has bought these types of properties before? If so, ask them how they handled it. As I said, you could also talk to a banker. Or maybe someone from the nature conservancy. See what they would require to give you a loan or accept the property as a gift.
One thing we always did was to look at the property on Google Earth and Bing to see what we can see before we visited. That's not enough to protect you, but at least it's a first step. Look for signs of previous development. Stained soil or concrete. Dead or discolored vegetation. Former structures or holes, basements. Waste piles, drums. Vehicle tracks. Is it fenced?
There are typically publicly accessible web pages from the federal, state, and local or county environmental agencies. Sometimes the fire department, which usually is responsible for underground storage tanks. See if the site is listed. Tax assessors databases are also often available on-line. They can tell you the ownership history and maybe past site usage.
I used to work in a wood shop next to a railroad track. We used to dump our used solvents and finishes on the tracks. Other people could also dump stuff there. I've been on properties where unknown people dumped drums of chemical waste behind the facility without the owner knowing or caring.
Why?! Do you have to pay for toxic waste disposal? If so, it seems to be a misguided incentive to setup.
Why?! Do you have to pay for toxic waste disposal? If so, it seems to be a misguided incentive to setup.
The relevant laws were established for large scale chemical manufacturers, refineries, and other industries that generate a lot of chemical waste. Thousands of gallons. Tens of thousands. Disposing of that waste is a big part of the cost of doing business. Do you want the government to pay?
The system is clunky for small-time waste generators. Also, the laws just got passed in the 1970s and 1980s. Companies of all sizes have just been dumping their waste out back, trucking it to unlined and unlicensed landfills, or discharging it directly into rivers since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Small businesses wouldn't dispose of waste properly even if it were free. It's a pain in the ass.
Yep. I fell in love with this former car mechanic shop. I need to find out if it has a buried waste tank or something.
The bigger problem are poltergeists. What happens is they build over an old cemetery and the dead folks get pissed and they fuck with the whole family and they start coming through the television. I saw a movie about it. It was a real pain in the ass for them. Makes a little motor oil on the lawn look like child's play.
We liberals and other lefties can gloat if we want, but what Anonymous did to Epik, China and Russia are doing to our power utilities and other infrastructure.
Prairie Home Companion was a wonderful thing that comes from where so many good things do - one talented and prickly person with determinism and a vision.
And no, it is not ok to put ketchup, catsup, ketsup, katchup, on raw oysters. At least not without horseradish.
unenlightenedOctober 04, 2021 at 17:51#6037870 likes
It seem like Google Translate is OK for a quick and dirty translation of individual words and very short phrases in at least common European languages. Beyond that, it doesn't seem to be very reliable.
— Bitter Crank
DeepL is better (probably the best) for French.
Your'e right on, Crank. Google Translate makes a mess of even the shortest Latin phrase. It seems unable to handle the inflection of words.
Does "DeepL" translate other languages, as well? I find myself wondering how well it handles synthetic languages, especially the ancient tongues, Latin and Ancient Greek.
unenlightenedOctober 05, 2021 at 08:07#6040620 likes
Recently I’ve been working on these questions with Clelia Verde, and we realized they were trying to say is that in the Copenhagen version of quantum mechanics, there is a quantum world and there is a classical world, and a boundary between them: when things become definite. When things that are indefinite in the quantum world become definite. And what they’re trying to say is that is the fundamental thing that happens in nature, when things that are indefinite become definite. And that’s what “now” is. The moment now, the present moment, that all these people say is missing from science and missing from physics, that is the transition from indefinite to definite. And quantum mechanics, the wavefunction, is a description of the future which is indefinite and incomplete. And classical physics is how we describe the past.
@Shawn
Hope you are well. If so, then please don't read this; it's upsetting:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/pigs-culled-amid-uk-shortage-abattoir-workers
The meat industry is one of many sectors of the UK economy grappling with labour shortages linked to Brexit and the pandemic, while a lack of delivery workers and drivers has affected supply chains...
“I have had grown men in tears on the phone just at the thought to having to contemplate killing healthy animals. We have to avoid welfare culling on farm,” Davies said...
Trade associations representing all areas of the UK’s food chain have proposed a one-year visa that would allow workers to be recruited for jobs such as HGV drivers, butchers, chefs and other food industry workers.
:sad: :angry: :fear:
We are not in a good place right now...
Indeed, some might say we are well and truly fucked.
Brexit ideology. UK Rules. Hah. Now sovereign. Hah. Tories be damned to hell :rage:
Johnson said the government could not “magic up” changes overnight to address the problems faced by farmers due to labour shortages. Asked about the problems facing pig producers, he told the BBC:
What you can’t do is government can’t magic up changes to their systems overnight. People need to recognise that we can’t simply continue with models which have basically held this country back and held our economy back. That’s why we’re going for a different approach.
And he told ITV that the change he wanted to see – the move from a low skill, low wage, high immigration economy to a high skill, high wage, low immigration one – was “the best thing for this country”.
Just let the fucking pigs live instead of a mass culling.
EDIT: I've never seen such a strange profit motive scenario.
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 06, 2021 at 14:26#6044410 likes
@Shawn
After taking care of pigs for a wet weekend I came to one solid conclusion. My Mother, in all her years on this Earth has never, EVER seen a real pig pen and been able to stay with straight face that my childhood bedroom was a pig pen.
Cotton Candy grapes are another production of California's The Grapery. If your palate is clear, the first one does taste like cotton candy, but after that, if you keep eating them, they just taste like grapes until you clear your palate again.
Well, if rejecting "mainstream media" means turning to garbage, then it's neither smart nor doing the right thing, and that has been seen, fertile grounds for bullshit, dis/mal/misinformation.
unenlightenedOctober 09, 2021 at 01:30#6052520 likes
Jeez, a bit like why throw the baby out with the bathwater when you can just blow up the whole bathroom.
As someone whose job it is to deal with and be intimately acquainted in distress, tragedy, and similar situations, you learn to appreciate your defenses and integrity being tested, even under grueling and unthinkable parameters. After all, if it wasn't so and so, it'd just be someone else. Maybe not now, maybe not for a while, but there's always someone.
I've been thinking about starting a poll to identify the most intelligent, funniest, most obsessed with pigs, and most obsessed with goats members of the forum. Here are my preliminary votes, although I'm open to being convinced otherwise:
[hide="Reveal"]Most intelligent - T Clark. Duh.
Funniest - T Clark. Duh.
Most obsessed with pigs - @Shawn.
Most obsessed with goats - @Hanover[/hide]
I used to be a big fan of Tom Robbins. As I got older, I got to feeling that he was too cute for my taste. When I reread books I'd previously enjoyed, I found they didn't hold up well. Be that as it may, I have always loved this passage from "Even Cowgirls Get the Blues." Silly. Too cute. But still...
This sentence is made of lead (and a sentence of lead gives a reader an entirely different sensation from one made of magnesium). This sentence is made of yak wool. This sentence is made of sunlight and plums. This sentence is made of ice. This sentence is made from the blood of the poet. This sentence was made in Japan. This sentence glows in the dark. This sentence was born with a caul. This sentence has a crush on Norman Mailer. This sentence is a wino and doesn't care who knows it. Like many italic sentences, this one has Mafia connections. This sentence is a double Cancer with Pisces rising. This sentence lost its mind searching for the perfect paragraph. This sentence refuses to be diagramed. This sentence ran off with an adverb clause. This sentence is 100 percent organic: it will not retain a facsimile of freshness like those sentences of Homer, Shakespeare, Goethe et al., which are loaded with preservatives. This sentence leaks. This sentence doesn't look Jewish . . . This sentence has accepted Jesus Christ as its personal savior. This sentence once spit in a book reviewer's eye. This sentence can do the funky chicken. This sentence has seen too much and forgotten too little. This sentence is called “Speedoo” but its real name is Mr. Earl. This sentence may be pregnant, it missed its period. This sentence suffered a split infinitive—and survived. If this sentence had been a snake you'd have bitten it. This sentence went to jail with Clifford Irving. This sentence went to Woodstock. And this little sentence went wee wee wee all the way home. This sentence is proud to be a part of the team here at Even Cowgirls Get the Blues. This sentence is rather confounded by the whole damn thing.
I've been thinking about starting a poll to identify the most intelligent, funniest, most obsessed with pigs, and most obsessed with goats members of the forum.
Philosophy got me thinking about goats recently. Before COVID days I was speeding in my car through the incipient outback on my way to Broken Hill, Australia. Not a soul, not another vehicle in sight. Just a long stretch of endless road which looked like a nasty scar across the flat, scrubby landscape of red dirt.
No one anywhere; but there were many ghastly dark shapes positioned awkwardly along the highway which was absolutely littered with the broken bodies of dead kangaroos in any number of perverse positions of agonised death. There was a shattered roo body every few yards. But not a single goat carcass to be seen.
Goats? The reason this is interesting is that the roadsides were infested with wild goats, happily munching on jagged outback shrubbery. They seemed to be winking at me as I powered past them doing 130. What did they know? What unseen force kept them out of harms way?
Seems to me the poor old roos, our majestic kangas, have not evolved yet to understand and manage road traffic down under. They die by the multitude on Australian inland asphalt every night from sunset to dawn.
The goats near Broken Hill by contrast endure and even prosper. They look more a part of the landscape than the bloody roo bodies which reminds us of the internal combustion engine's other deplorable legacies. These later interlopers with horns are making the most of our beleaguered land.
What is the philosophical lesson here? On the highway of life, try to be a goat, not a kangaroo. I'll leave it with you to work out what this means.
What is the philosophical lesson here? On the highway of life, try to be a goat, not a kangaroo. I'll leave it with you to work out what this means.
In the post you quoted, I said that my preliminary vote for who is most obsessed with goats would go to @Hanover. It's good to see he has some competition.
I'm not sure this is relevant, but it is my understanding that when placentals compete with marsupials, the placentals usually win. I read that the original mammal inhabitants of South America were marsupials. When a land bridge between South and North America opened, placentals moved south and killed off most of the marsupials. Now the only marsupials in the western hemisphere are opossums. Opossi?
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 13, 2021 at 15:51#6067240 likes
As a draft horse in a snowstorm, iced over hooves, whiskers each have their own icicle and there is no end in sight. Predictions of heavy, wet snowfall is not encouraging to me but head down, heavy with exhaustion, I put one in front of the other and trudge on. :shade:
Where I live, running into white tailed deer is a problem, but since doing so will inevitably total your car and risk your life, we try to slow down where they're likely to jump out of the woods.
Are Kangaroos small? Or are your cars really big? Why don't you have that problem?
Are Kangaroos small? Or are your cars really big? Why don't you have that problem?
A kangaroo can reach heights from anywhere between 3- 7 feet (1 to 2 meters) and can weigh between 40 and 200 lbs (18-100kg). I don't live in a kangaroo area - I live in a city with 5 million people.
In the outback kangas are on the road at night. I only drove after 8am. It's mainly larger vehicles that do the hitting - trucks and such.
Reply to Tom StormReply to frank Kangaroos probably have an unusually strong death wish, caused by their colonization by white people and their infernal combustion engines. Colonialism has been sapping their will to live ever since your Columbus, Willem Janszoon discovered the western side of Oz. I don't suppose you all have the Janszoon equivalent of Columbus Day. Like it or not, getting discovered by Europeans is a big deal.
Do lots of 'kangas' die on Australia's railroads?
Death wishes aside, I have heard that kangaroos are unusually stupid animals. Deer are smart enough to make themselves scarce during hunting season, but otherwise aren't the very model of ingenuity.
Goats. Goats have a reputation for being relatively brainy among members of the family Bovidae (cud chewing cloven-hoofed ruminants).
Squirrels. Now THERE is one smart creature. They regularly end up as road kill, but not for lack of computational facilities. They are good at avoiding vehicles; because there are so many of the nutty little fuckers, Chance decreed a certain number of squashed squirrels. At least when they are run over they dry out fairly quickly--less odor. Much better than dying on the sidewalk and swelling up in the sun and smelling like fermented rat.
Reply to Bitter Crank A former Prime Minister Bob Hawke once shared a modest joke - If a politician and a kangaroo were involved in hit and run accidents on the highway what would be the difference? There would be skid marks before the kangaroo.
Reply to Tom Storm Sort of like this cleaned up joke: If a lawyer and a lobbyist committed suicide by jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge, which one would die first?
Problem is, it is easy to say concerning “hard” sciences like say math and physics, that the mathematicians and physicists should have the say as to what is taught; but when it comes to the social issues, even the medical ones (as we see from Covid and vaccines), because even medicine is very closely tied in with social issues, there tends to be a lot of disagreement.
When I was a boy I learned that Lincoln was a great president, that he saved the Union and freed the slaves; when I was a freshman at North Carolina, I learned that he was a racist, because, though he freed the slaves, he didn’t think they could live as equal citizens: free, but not equal.
Reply to WheatleyReply to jorndoe There are, in fact, two sides to the holocaust -- perpetrators on one side, victims on the other, but they are so closely connected one can not tell one part without the other. It's a serious quandary:
How much about Nazi views should be presented, and how should those views be framed, contextualized? And when should this information be presented?
The Jew-hating, racial superiority of Aryans rhetoric of the Nazis will attract some people, sad to say, so that is one risk. As is the case with anti-black sentiments in the US, there were clear anti-Jew sentiments in the US in the 1930s. But conventional anti-semitism isn't the same thing as the decision to kill all the Jews in Europe.
A third problem is that Jews were not the only targets of the regime: Political opponents, religious opponents, homosexuals, communists, race defilers (aryans who had sex with Jews), and slavic people (Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians), and Roma were also on the list of disposable people. The people of the Poland and the USSR were subject to efforts directed toward their extermination, as well. In the middle of the war, the Nazis realized that they needed much more slave labor, which preserved the lives of some people.
Further, WWII wasn't about the holocaust. Planning for "the Final Solution" began after the invasion of the Soviet Union and before the defeat of Stalingrad. However, killing Jews and Communists was part of the invasion plan.
There are, in fact, two sides to the holocaust -- perpetrators on one side, victims on the other, but they are so closely connected one can not tell one part without the other. It's a serious quandary:
Yeah, but that news article had nothing to do with that. It's about a politically motivated move to counter critical race theory.
Well, never mind. Critical Race Theory (CRT) presents a different two-sided problem.
On the one hand, Blacks and Native Americans Got the royal shaft from the beginning, and and the shafting continued for a long time. The White, English ruling class organized the shafting (slavery, dispossession, genocide).
On the other hand, the White English working class (AKA, the poor) people were at best pawns. The English elite considered the working class to be trash, basically. White trash. (Up until the Revolution, people living in the American colonies were English.)
Fast forward from 1620 (the Mayflower landed) to 2021, and many white people (most of whom are working class) do not feel they are responsible for the sins of the past. Their ancestors were in no sense "in charge of the country's affairs", or their ancestors had not even landed on these shores. Slavery was a feature of ruling class life; for the most part, in the south; True, there were ruling class or wealthy merchants (upper middle class) White people in the North who facilitated and financed the southern agricultural slave system. The working class was not able to afford slaves.
Karl Marx noted that if one had a choice between hiring an Irishman or using a slave to fix a barn roof, it made more sense to hire the Irish worker. If the Irishman fell off the roof and died, the plantation owner would not be out a dime. If a slave fell off the roof and died, there was a significant financial loss. White workers were not worth much.
In the last 70 years, many White working class people accumulated more wealth than Blacks. Not a lot more, but some. (If you subtract debt from assets, most working class people--white or black--own nothing outright.
The sufferings of Blacks and Native Americans were / are real. No doubt. So are the sufferings of the the white working class.
There is no doubt that blacks have been discriminated against through legislation and government outlays. If some white working class people were beneficiaries, they were not the authors of the benefit. Working class people were not the authors of racially discriminatory legislation or biased government spending, either.
CRT does not want to accept with the defining power of the ruling class, so White people in general become the problem, and their problem is that they MUST be racist because they are perceived to be better off than most blacks.
The White people who are better off than blacks are the beneficiaries of accumulated inheritance. When White working class people were able to get ahead, they were often enough able to pass that on to the next generation. Century farms -- land that has been in the same family for 100 years and longer -- is an example of accumulation through inheritance. So are the houses built under the FHA program after WWII. But none of this relatively small wealth was gained without a lot of work (farming, jobs, saving, frugality, etc.).
The White ruling class interfered with potential wealth accumulate among Blacks, in just about every state. But again, the distinction of WHICH White group acted against Black interest.
While walking in the valley of depression a small light appears in the distance and the thread hosted by one of my favorite attorneys and awesome friend :love:
Extreme right-wing views and the wellness community are not an obvious pairing, but ‘conspirituality’ is increasingly pervasive. How did it all become so toxic?
...In 2011, sociologists Charlotte Ward and David Voas coined the term “conspirituality”. Ward defined it as “a rapidly growing web movement expressing an ideology fuelled by political disillusionment and the popularity of alternative worldviews”. It describes the sticky intersection of two worlds: the world of yoga and juice cleanses with that of New Age thinking and online theories about secret groups, covertly controlling the universe. It’s a place where you might typically see a vegan influencer imploring their followers to stick to a water fast rather than getting vaccinated, or a meditation instructor reminding her clients of the dangers of 5G, or read an Instagram comment explaining that vaccines are hiding tracking devices. It’s a place where the word “scamdemic” might comfortably run up the side of a pair of yoga pants (88% polyester, £40, also available in “Defund the Media” print, “World Hellth Organisation” and “Masked Sheeple”, in millennial pink)...
...One benefit of the rise of conspiracy theories is the rise of conspiracy-theory explainers. Dr Timothy Caulfield works tirelessly, occasionally with a note of weariness, to explain and debunk misinformation. He’s studied the subject for decades, but has never seen it taken as seriously as it is right now; the World Health Organisation is calling this an “infodemic”. “The toleration of wellness pseudoscience has helped to fuel the current situation,” he says. The key to changing minds is to debunk it before it takes on an ideological spin...
...Mental illness is not uncommon in conspiracy theorists. In February, the National Consortium for the Study of Terrorism and Responses to Terrorism reported that over two-thirds of the 31 QAnon followers who’d been charged around the January insurrection in Washington, DC experienced severe mental health conditions.
One night, Melissa Rein Lively saw a meme: an image of Polish Jews being put on a train in 1939, edited so they were wearing face masks. The caption said: “First they put you in the masks, then they put you in the box cars.” The granddaughter of Holocaust survivors, she says, “It was the most disturbing image I think I have ever seen. Everything I was learning and everything I have ever been afraid of connected in a way that convinced me that at least some semblance of what I was reading was true.” She was becoming convinced that nothing was really what it seemed; that there was a carefully constructed narrative being told, which was designed to control society. “I was willing to expand my thinking and consider a completely alternative theory, especially during a time of unprecedented chaos
Scary. How easy it is to unbalance minds...
— Amity
To unbalance a mind, it would first need to be balanced.
Yeah. And how many of us have a balanced mind ?
So easy to influence...to slide up or down; left or right...to the extremes.
Who is it that takes more advantage of that. I wonder...to achieve dastardly deeds.
Piling BS on top of BS...
Following @Shawn''s discussion
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11977/inner-calm-and-inner-peace-in-stoicism
For anyone interested, Stoic Week starts online tomorrow !
Stoic Week is an annual event that invites you to ‘live like a Stoic for a week’. It is run online and is completely free. Since 2012 over 25,000 people have signed up for Stoic Week. Participants complete a questionnaire before starting and another at the end that enable us to assess how much following Stoic life guidance has benefitted you. To date the results have consistently shown that people who participate see a reduction in negative emotions— Stoic Week starts Mon 18th October
A whole world might open up, or not...
At least, it's free with pdf Handbook etc, etc...
Have just registered and stuff has been there for a week already !!!
a) gravity
b) the unbearable spinning cosmos
c) decreased muscle strength causes us to lose our grips and increases our gripes
d) severe disappointment because we were young and stupid once and now the young are stupid again.
e) everything else
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 18, 2021 at 01:14#6084770 likes
No feelings are worse than anger. There's just a nothingness that sets in. It's very lonely on the draw down. :shade:
Been reading the Beats. Beatniks. The beats were a 1940s - 1960s thing. Allen Ginzburg -- who howled on their knees in the subway and were dragged off the roof waving genitals and manuscripts -- types. Cool cats. Hip bars.
I am a great American
I am almost nationalistic about it!
I love America like a madness!
But I am afraid to return to America
I’m even afraid to go into the American Express—
2
They are frankensteining Christ in America
in their Sunday campaigns
They are putting the fear of Christ in America
under their tents in their Sunday campaigns
They are driving old ladies mad with Christ in America
They are televising the gift of healing and the fear of hell
in America under their tents in their Sunday
campaigns
They are leaving their tents and are bringing their Christ
to the stadiums of America in their Sunday
campaigns
They are asking for a full house an all get out
for their Christ in the stadiums of America
They are getting them in their Sunday and Saturday
campaigns
They are asking them to come forward and fall on their
knees
because they are all guilty and they are coming
forward
in guilt and are falling on their knees weeping their
guilt
begging to be saved O Lord O Lord in their Monday
Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday
and Sunday campaigns
[You may not be old enough to remember, or may not have watched the Billy Graham Crusades on TV]
3
It is a time in which no man is extremely wondrous
It is a time in which rock stupidity
outsteps the 5th Column as the sole enemy in America...
and so on.
in the time of the beats I was about as far from cool and hip as one could get.
'On Anger'.
Here's an article, basically a shortcut to Seneca's writings, with clear discussion:
Seneca’s 16 Stoic Ways for How to Let Go of Anger
https://highexistence.com/seneca-on-how-to-deal-with-anger/
The biggest myth about letting go of anger is that only certain anger-prone people experience it. Seneca the legendary Stoic philosopher, believed that anger does not discriminate between character types at all...
Seneca is the true master of the topic on anger and his quotes should be read in full. All quotes were taken from Seneca’s book On Anger.
Simpler than reading Seneca but it's more than just a cursory look. Worth a read, I think.
I like no.4
If you have a hot temper, use art and music to calm the mind
If you are prone to frustration and find it hard to let go of anger, Seneca believes finding art or music that soothes you will prove beneficial in your pursuit of a tranquil mind. Music is a universally loved art-form, and everyone has at least a few songs that will make them feel more at peace when they hear them.
If you suffer from a hot-temper, Seneca would advise you have and ample supply of music at hand that you find calming. Besides this, nearly any type of art can be calming. The philosopher Alain de Botton has an excellent book called Art as Therapy which outlines which types of art can manage different psychological ailments.
Ego is not a prison in my opinion, and, given that it isn't, imprisonment in ego might be like exclusion for a evil reason such as bullying, because the person can't think logically their way out of such imprisonment.
Hot-tempered people should avoid as well studies that are demanding, or at least engage in ones not liable to end in exhaustion; the mind should not occupy itself with hard tasks, but should be given over to pleasurable arts: let it be calmed by reading poetry and charmed by the tales of history; let it be treated with a measure of gentleness and refinement. Pythagoras would bring peace to his troubled spirit with the lyre; and who is unaware that the bugle and trumpet stir the mind, just as certain songs have a soothing effect that relaxes the mind? Disordered eyes find benefit in green objects, and weak sight finds certain colors restful but others dazzling, and therefore blinding: in this way pleasant pursuits prove a balm to the troubled mind.
Hmmm. Just say "No!" to exhaustion as a result of hard study...
Off then to green pastures.
*swinging my lyre*
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 18, 2021 at 12:27#6085700 likes
Thank you for your help @Amity@Varde@Tom Storm
There was a time when my feelings vascliated between anger and peace. Now it is just not registering.
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 18, 2021 at 16:31#6086010 likes
General Colin Powell Rest in Peace :flower:
StreetlightOctober 18, 2021 at 16:46#6086080 likes
Apparently Powell was the same disgusting rag of a human being who was put in charge of investigating the My Lai massacre, only to find that it was all hunky dory. No wonder he lied so straight-faced to the world when he sanctioned the deaths of 400,000 Iraqis. He made war criminality a career. The quality of Earth's air just improved somewhat.
I see. You still wouldn't be so bitter if you weren't so idealistic.
StreetlightOctober 18, 2021 at 17:00#6086220 likes
Just the other day a hundred year old Nazi guard had a trial date set in Germany.
Considering Bush and Cheney, still alive, are responsible for deaths on an few orders of magnitude greater, one can dream they too might find a similar day.
That just comes from drinking too many cosmos. If you substitute Metamucil for the vodka, you should be fine. If you get orange flavor, you can leave out the Cointreau also.
My current game on Civilization 6
Do you have a switch and Civilization 6? This is a great game for philosophers, inspiring deep thinking and strategy. I would love to compete against you in chess-like competition. If you do have the game and console please message me.
Just the other day a hundred year old Nazi guard had a trail date set.
Considering Bush and Cheney, still alive, were responsible for deaths on an few orders of magnitude greater, one can dream they too might find a sinilar day.
If you're mourning the death of Colin Powell you might as well take a piss on the grave of every Iraqi killed as a consequence of the war he sold to the American public and to the world. Honestly drives me insane how war criminals are routinely mourned on this forum while the consequences of their actions are brushed under a rug.
As a consequence of Colin Powell's lies hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead, 1 in 5 Iraqis knows someone who died, hundreds of thousands fled Iraq and millions have been displaced from their homes. Can't even be happy about his death since he was 84 and surrounded by loved ones, totally immune from the consequences of his actions.
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff Here's a passage from a Turkish soap opera for you. You don't need to understand the language to understand the scene, a few pointers suffice.
The context of the scene is as follows:
The older woman is the grandmother of the younger one. The younger woman is desperately in love with a man who doesn't want her. In her despair, she caused some strife for both families, even attempted suicide. The grandmother refuses to tolerate her outbursts and despair any longer, so she gives her a lesson.
At the mirror, she tells her (that's my summary translation), "Look at yourself! Look at yourself! You're pathetic! How can a person fall so low?! And all this for a man?! Was it worth it?! How can a person give up on one's life like that?! How can one bring such shame to oneself?! Have you no pride?!"
My first and second grade classroom (1951-52) was very similar to this one -- iron and wood desks screwed to the rails; wood floors, dim overhead lights, large windows, blackboard, George Washington's portrait, etc. The exterior was orange brick, yellow limestone trim, copper roof; it was built around 1890.
It's replacements were boring midcentury buildings which turned out to be very inefficient to heat and impossible to cool at a reasonable cost. They have not held up well over time. Eventually all the big glass windows (the exterior, basically) were bricked up. Hideous.
StreetlightOctober 19, 2021 at 02:13#6088610 likes
Reply to Shawn How many regrets do I have? So many. Big ones, little ones. Sure, the scary things I thought I wanted to do but was either too stupid or too timid to try. So the question is, what was the bigger factor: stupidity or timidity?
My first and second grade classroom (1951-52) was very similar to this one
A critical distinction was that the map of the US didn't include Alaska or Hawaii in your classroom. Another distinguishing detail is that in the 50s everything was still black and white.
True, everything was in monochrome back then.
"Gray skies smiling at me; nothing but gray skies do I see""
"Somewhere over the rainbow, gray birds fly"
"When the gray, gray robin comes bob, bob, bobbin along"
"She wore gray velvet";
"Gray is the color of the sparkling corn, in the morning, when she shines";
"We all live in light gray submarines, light gray submarines";
"Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. Gray and gray, gray and gray";
People used to dream in B&W. Dreaming in color was considered a sign of oedipal conflicts.
Some homosexuals were known to wear very gray clothing.
Fortunately we had gotten over the era of gray journalism.
Jesus said the sun isn't gray, it's chicken.
Finally NBC broke the spell of dead gray with living color, and everyone lived happily ever after -- in color!
In Hanoveria we had no gray, only black and white, and red when we bled. That's the only time we saw red. Mary Queen of Scots had a room where she never saw red until she did and then she knew something new and it was that she was bleeding to death.
The gay people, they had gray. The straights were jealous of that. Same old white or black boas every gala. Frustrating and embarrassing, right?
When I lived in France, a woman I knew who had some pigs slipped and fell over and one of her pigs began to munch her. It took a chunk out of her arm.
She was lucky:
A 56-year-old woman has been eaten by pigs after collapsing in their pen, Russian media report.
After venturing out to feed the animals in a village in the central Russian region of Udmurtia, the farmer reportedly fainted or suffered an epileptic seizure.
Her husband later found the body. She reportedly died of blood loss.
Their farm is in a village in the Malopurginsky district of Udmurtia, east of the city of Kazan.
Local media say the husband had gone to bed early the day before as he was feeling unwell.
After waking to find his wife missing, he came upon her body in the pen.
Media reports say an investigation into the incident has been launched.
Authorities are investigating how a farmer in the US state of Oregon was devoured by his pigs. Probably more "whether" than "how". Just guessing.
Terry Vance Garner, 69, went to feed his animals last Wednesday on his farm by the coast, but never returned.
His dentures and pieces of his body were found by a family member in the pig enclosure, but the rest of his remains had been consumed.
The Coos County district attorney's office said that one of the animals had previously bitten Garner.
The animals are estimated by the authorities to each weigh about 700lb (320kg).
Investigators say it is possible that the hogs deliberately knocked Garner over before killing and eating him. In the interests of precision, the editor suggests that the humble farmer was probably not dead when the meal began.
But they have not ruled out the possibility that the farmer could have collapsed from a medical emergency, such as a heart attack. Like, being eaten by swine ISN'T a medical emergency?They have also not ruled out the possibility that the pigs had been plotting the banquet for months. A spokesperson at the Coos County Swine Herd Improvement Association said that it is a well known fact that pigs plot.
A pathologist was unable to determine the cause of Garner's death and his remains have been sent to the University of Oregon to be analysed by a forensic anthropologist. [I]What part of "devoured by swine" do they not understand?[/i]
He said his brother had raised several large adult sows and a boar called Teddy, and they would sell their piglets to local children. [I]So there you have it! The no-longer cute little piggish murderers will devour the children to whom they were given as pets! The only question is... when.[/I]
The BBC is not responsible for anything. Neither am I.
So there you have it! The no-longer cute little piggish murderers will devour the children to whom they were given as pets! The only question is... when.
Exactly. Like the wallowsome Shawn himself, they're not as harmless as they at first seem.
Here's another one, again using the lovely "devoured", and the equally colourful "beasts":
PORKIN' HELL
Farmer EATEN by his own pigs after suffering heart attack…with beasts leaving nothing but scraps of bone.
The 71-year-old man, who has been named in local media as Mr Krzysztof, was devoured by 12 Hungarian Mangalica pigs after he collapsed while collecting water from a well on his farm.
After venturing out to feed the animals in a village in the central Russian region of Udmurtia, the farmer reportedly fainted or suffered an epileptic seizure.
Her husband later found the body. She reportedly died of blood loss.
I'm joking about these incidents, but can you picture it? One moment a peaceful bucolic scene, next moment, unimaginable horror. I hope she didn't wake up.
Put it on the plate, maybe add it's mate, before it's too late, for my stomach might deflate. Bacon bacon bacon, can we get some more, put it on the f** plate.
Geez. I turn my back for a few hours and the Shoutbox gets taken over by pigs. Shawn is one thing, but when normally porcine-responsible members like Jamalrob and @Bitter Crank get started... I'm glad to see, at least, that we are finally talking about evil pigs instead of cute ones.
Reply to Shawn This little pig goes to heaven! Those other big bad pigs go to hell.
NYT: surgeons attached a kidney from a genetically modified pig to a brain-dead human to test the organ compatibility. The surgeon said that xenotransplants normally fail at the junction of the human blood vessels and the xenotransplant blood vessels. In this case, the kidney was connected to vessels in the leg, so that the tissue could be closely observed. The experiment ran for 56 hours and in that time there was no sign of rejection. The pig kidney began functioning normally immediately.
PETA, of course, disapproves: “?Pigs aren’t spare parts and should never be used as such just because humans are too self-centered to donate their bodies to patients desperate for organ transplants,” said a statement from the organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA."
The genetically modified hog was interviewed for the article and said "Of course, I hope that when I need a kidney transplant, a decent and healthy human will step forward and donate one of their organs. After all, under the skin we're all just swine."
Has the idea of a TPF Discord channel ever been discussed? Would be interesting to hear conversations in real time.
Someone else did suggest it, but it hasn't really been discussed. I briefly tried out Discord once for a small group of friends but it didn't work out (probably more the fault of the users rather than the software), and I haven't used it otherwise.
The genetically modified hog was interviewed for the article and said "Of course, I hope that when I need a kidney transplant, a decent and healthy human will step forward and donate one of their organs. After all, under the skin we're all just swine."
It is in fact a word and it describes a particular belief system limited to a single rule: "You are permitted to accept a heart pig transplant, but you are forbidden to donate your heart to a pig"
While the rule appears to be two rules, it's really just one. It's the mystery of the bi-unity.
The Jesusists subscribe to the Golden Rule, whereas the Hebrewists the above rule. Other than that, the two groups are indistinct.
unenlightenedOctober 21, 2021 at 19:57#6099760 likes
Reply to Shawn Well I've installed the new kitchen all but the floor, and I'm about halfway to making the old kitchen into the art room and laundry. Then its just a new toilet, decorate the lounge, install a heat pump and underfloor heating, and finish, and that's downstairs done. And I need to plant some broad beans. Happy Christmas!
Alright, one more time on this rule. If Who's on first and What's on second, and even if Nobody is on third, and then I'm Not Sure hits a fly ball in front of Who, What, and Nobody, then I'm Not Sure is out, even if He at short goes to catch the ball and drops it. Like I said, it doesn't matter if Nobody is or isn't on third, but if Who isn't even on first or What isn't on second, then if He drops the ball, I'm Not Sure is not out. Of course, if He picks up the ball and throws onto first before Who gets there, Who is out, although that's just the regular rule.
We're just trying to avoid the confusion of an intentionally dropped fly ball by He with Who and What on first and second, which would cause all sorts of chaos because Who and What would need to run to avoid a force out when He dropped the ball.
I hope this explains it to You.
And, in other news, the Braves are up 3 games to 1 in the National League Championship Series over the Dodgers. Next stop, the World Series, which in this case, the "world" is the United States.
I think distinguishing between the Who of a situation and a What of the situation leads to less Not Sure instances in the case of Nobody being Not involved.
That's my take.
unenlightenedOctober 21, 2021 at 21:54#6100060 likes
What they probly mean is that when it gets wet, it stinks of piss, like Harris tweed, because of the processing in 'foul water' . You have to pay extra for this. For further urinary details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 21, 2021 at 22:29#6100230 likes
I'm not walking an easy path right now and it's coming up on a fork ......
I like who I am.
I can't make anyone else like me without compromising my authentic self.
Where is @Incision when I need him and his affinity for Frost?
Reply to T Clark I deeply regret withholding facts from you. The wool is merino lambswool. Spain, maybe. Poor lambs, not even close to puberty and they're getting shaved against their will.
Wherever it is from, the sweaters are way too expensive to put on waterfowl ($129). Or for humans to wear anywhere they might get shat upon by a swans, geese, or ducks, (teal, mergansers).
Reply to ArguingWAristotleTiff a) When you're going through hell, keep going. b) when you come to a fork in the road, take it.
c) Even in long-term relationships, sometimes one reaches a cul-de-sac where one can only go around in circles. It is usually a painful situation, without a clear explanation of how two people reach such an impasse. Staying or leaving are about equally difficult decisions, unless fate intervenes and makes the decision for you. (Note: a shotgun is not fate.).
Reply to unenlightened It would appear that stale urine hasn't been recently used in the production of harris tweed. The Roman toga was generally made of wool, so there was a lot of wool to process, and a lot of stale urine was required. Yes it was taxed. A son of an emperor complained about the smell, and his father point out that there was nothing unpleasant about the smell of gold.
The Romans did not have much of a chemical industry. When a compound was required, it likely came from natural sources. Romans used fecal matter (dog, human...) for tanning leather. Why? The feces contained hide-softening enzymes. Hides were soaked in urine to help remove hair. Sounds disgusting at a distance of 2 millennia -- imagine what it was like up close and personal.
Wet wool smells more like wet dog--to me, anyway,
ProbablyTrueOctober 22, 2021 at 00:04#6100750 likes
Reply to jamalrob
I'm not even sure it would be good for TPF to be honest. I've been a part of some interesting Discord channels where there are voice and text discussion/debates, but it is a much different format. It could be a useful supplement to TPF or it could end up killing it. Not to mention the extra mod work.
Live debates would be pretty interesting. The overall quality of those debates would probably be worse than here though, which is probably against the spirit of the forum.
Sounds disgusting at a distance of 2 millennia -- imagine what it was like up close and personal.
Just north of Boston is a famous Superfund site where hides were tanned using chromium compounds. The chemicals leaked and contaminated groundwater for several miles around. They had to bring in John Travolta to clean it up. I actually worked on that site a bit. Imagine what that was like up close and personal. Apparently tanning is a very unpleasant business - 2,000 or 50 years ago.
Reply to T Clark Tannic acid (a vegetable made chemical, can be used to produce high quality leather, so chromium isn't necessary.
Aside from dung, ancient tanners also used brains. Hmmm, I wonder if Republican, crypto-fascist, and overt fascist brains are intact enough for turning a sow into a fine haute couture bag?
Using chromium for tanning developed from the practice of soaking gut sutures in chromium.
Reeking tanneries were generally zoned to the outskirts of town where the poor lived. Progressives get upset when they find the poor subjected to bad smells, noise, and the like. Well, of course! That is just part of the deal of opting to be poor. The poor always live in flood zones, industrial slums, near rendering works and tanneries, and dumps. It's just the natural order of things. I mean, we certainly don't expect the rich to occupy coop homes next to the regional sewer plant.
The Okefenokee is a deep black from the tannic acid from the vegetative decay. There the feral swamp people live, raised by gators on a diet of crawdads and moonshine.
The only others there are hideaways who have Petitoed their girlfriends.
I'm not even sure it would be good for TPF to be honest. I've been a part of some interesting Discord channels where there are voice and text discussion/debates, but it is a much different format. It could be a useful supplement to TPF or it could end up killing it. Not to mention the extra mod work.
Live debates would be pretty interesting. The overall quality of those debates would probably be worse than here though, which is probably against the spirit of the forum.
You're not selling it to me. :grin:
But I'm still curious about it.
Nothing is stopping anyone around here from starting their own philosophy discussion Discord server. And if they wanted it to be a kind of unofficial or semi-official TPF server that they ran themselves we'd consider it if they PM'd me about it. Then I or they could invite the members here by sending out the invitation link.
Of course, any member could set one up without going through the staff, but if they tried to populate it with the TPF membership they'd probably be banned for spamming/advertising, and wouldn't get much interest anyway.
So some involvement of staff or other trusted long-term members would be the best way.
I think we should have a Zoom conference one day. We could put faces with names and such. Might be interesting. We wouldn't need an agenda, but we could do it like here where we don't know what we're actually going to say until we hear ourselves say it.
Ok, but tanning with chromium salts is still the primary method for industrial leather tanning.
The more humane way of tanning leather is to soften the skin on the live animal by hammering the shit out of it and then soaking it in the chromium salts but being sure to keep it alive by slapping its face and yelling out its name. When the animal finally dies, you can then boil it in its newly tanned leather body jacket. After carefully slicing open the belly, the diner can enjoy the meat contents and then take home the remaining leather sack for use as a a fine gym tote and a fun souvenir.
I think we should have a Zoom conference one day. We could put faces with names and such. Might be interesting. We wouldn't need an agenda, but we could do it like here where we don't know what we're actually going to say until we hear ourselves say it.
The more humane way of tanning leather is to soften the skin on the live animal by hammering the shit out of it and then soaking it in the chromium salts but being sure to keep it alive by slapping its face and yelling out its name. When the animal finally dies, you can then boil it in its newly tanned leather body jacket. After carefully slicing open the belly, the diner can enjoy the meat contents and then take home the remaining leather sack for use as a a fine gym tote and a fun souvenir.
I don't think your suggested method would be a feasible method for tanning leather.
What if I get together with 250,000 other people and by a cheap used Ferrari for a dollar each. Then each of us would get to use it for an hour every 30 years. Turns would be determined by lottery, except for me. I'd be first. One dollar for an hour in a Ferrari. Seems like a good idea.
What if I get together with 250,000 other people and by a cheap used Ferrari for a dollar each. Then each of us would get to use it for an hour every 30 years. Turns would be determined by lottery, except for me. I'd be first. One dollar for an hour in a Ferrari. Seems like a good idea.
We'd get eaten up with the administrative fees setting up each person's hour and then there'd be the fight over fuel, maintenance, and repairs. It might make more sense to tan a live animal.
I think we should have a Zoom conference one day. We could put faces with names and such. Might be interesting. We wouldn't need an agenda, but we could do it like here where we don't know what we're actually going to say until we hear ourselves say it.
I thought we had this figured out already.
You are issued enterance into the sea of Absurdly, to discuss the idea of wisdom seeking, through a Cisco WebEx portal. (Surely you have moved on from Zoom) But the most important part hasn't been brought up yet and that is if you just want to listen and NOT participate, then it's a $5 donated to the forum. Win/Win ?
unenlightenedOctober 23, 2021 at 11:15#6106770 likes
I read that the white guy in question was both a tracker for hire and a conservationist who helped fund elephant preservation through hunting fees.
Put that in symbols on your cave wall!
But about the diagnostic power of political terms, I've been reading about reluctance, even among leftists to use "neoliberal" because it degrades the seriousness of the discussion. Previously, neoliberals objected to "capitalism" because they didn't like the connotations.
It got me thinking about the inherent bias in all political language.
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 23, 2021 at 17:42#6107640 likes
When you're going through hell, keep going. b) when you come to a fork in the road, take it.
I have enough self worth to keep walking but the hopeless romantic in me keeps me circling back. The fork I took, that may be the problem was returning to school and completing my degree that I had drifted apart from when joining the work force doing something I absolutely loved and felt fulfilled by. NicK said after we had one child that he could double our income if I came home to raise the family. I absolutely wanted to raise our indians and did so as NicK did what he promised and still does today.
The point of friction is that I didn't return to the workforce and stay there, which is true in that I gave the job a year, driving an hour each way for the same $12.50 an hour that I had been making before I came home to raise the family.
I do not for a minute regret coming home and raising our family. But, BUT, I figured out in order to do what I want to do in a professional life requires more education than I had.
So I returned to school and am rocking it as much as I might bitch about math and getting straight A's that makes me feel awesome!
My trajectory is rising my friend and I just don't know if NicK can see past the chivalrous way in which he was raised in and I appreciated at a time in our marriage.
But I would be amiss to not explain that NicK had a life changing medical crisis in May 2020. I ask if you have the time to read about what he went through as he truly, by all science and medicine, should not be alive. NicK suffered an Aortic dissection both ascending and descending and my youngest Indian (20 at the time) were the ones who got him the help he needed in Warrior speed. To get him in front of the top Thoracic/Cardiac Surgeon in the valley.
Today? NicK is out of town and asked for a separation twice in two sessions of therapy.
I've tried to accommodate his feelings but I cannot afford a place and my staying at friends works but I am losing traction in my school where I am not just studying but I am performing my 40 hrs Service Learning required to graduate as a Social worker.
I don't know if we can right this but the idea that only I need to change is....less than optimistic.
c) Even in long-term relationships, sometimes one reaches a cul-de-sac where one can only go around in circles. It is usually a painful situation, without a clear explanation of how two people reach such an impasse. Staying or leaving are about equally difficult decision, unless fate intervenes and makes the decision for you. (Note: a shotgun is not fate.).
I'm getting dizzy and distressed from going in circles of do I fight for what I need? What he needs? I'm very tired and have a good deal of resentment at some things said.
The other thing is as I move along in my classes I am exposed to ideas, gender fluidity, shift in societies goals and how to make sure we actually do provide for the general welfare not just the defend part of our promise. I find myself understanding what people are facing and when I show understanding or empathy, NicK gets visibly turned off and it shuts me up.
But it doesn't shut down in my mind because it is my study! Omg I could just scream. It's so fucked up. I'm trying to figure out who I am because I am not who I was, nor can I be.
If people call each other "fascist" when they aren't really fascist, does that kill the diagnostic power of the word?
I don't think there is much value in the word anyway. Everyone seems to think it means something different. Just tell us what you don't like about the ideas under discussion.
I don't think there is much value in the word anyway. Everyone seems to think it means something different.
Right. So since most political terminology is vague to some degree, we need not worry if "fascist" or "neoliberal" are used in a derogatory fashion. Those words retain diagnostic power in spite of the bluster of some users.
That's basically Biebricher's argument. I'm not sure it's true, though.
Can you ever pull the bullshit off of the term "fake news" now that it's got Trump's stamp on it?
I don't think so. The BBC has a reputation for failing to stick to facts (which is true), occasionally leaning into fake news (no, not that).
One of the moderators moved my "You don't need to read philosophy to be a philosopher" thread to the Lounge. I assume it was you @StreetlightX. Pretty dick move.
Reply to T Clark That was me. Seemed to me like an insubstantial unphilosophical discussion. I can move it back if enough people want that or if it gets some good responses.
To me it didn't seem like a call for reflection. On the contrary.
I'm not against people expressing their thoughts, but in this case I thought the thought wasn't good. It was more a platform for a rant than anything, as I saw it.
I saw it as a call for reflection or Zen, in some regards.
Yeah. That was my take too.
It's certainly not that not reading Plato or Berkeley is bad. Not at all. But some of the most interesting philosophical things I've found elsewhere too.
I think philosophy should be broad. It's gets enough crap for being too highfalutin as it is.
Perhaps. I can only speak from experience but, if someone doesn't connect with many classical philosopher for some reason, what can they do? It only matters that one of them does, as is often the case with Wittgensteinians, for example.
Time to engage in handwaving. Long story short, as of now, philosophy is related to a series of problems that have not been answerable even after the scientific revolution.
The nature of mind and knowledge are extremely difficult to parse, as are ideas in general. When things get this complex, perhaps we can't even do science, so we're stuck in development.
I guess.
What's your view on this topic?
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 23, 2021 at 22:31#6108410 likes
Maybe this is what NicK and I are lacking or missing. The stonewalling is not something I can accept. I would like to think I prefer a deeper dive to explore the ideas of others.
:chin:
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 23, 2021 at 22:32#6108440 likes
Tossing peanuts @Hanover
That is one skinny pig my friend.
He needs to eat and wallow. :100:
I'm amiss about what happened to the logical positivists as treating modern philosophy as the logic of science. I think they had a good thing going.
On the other hand what also happened after that with the linguistic turn was fascinating to see and still has a lot to say about life.
But, recently I've been interested in the amount of philosophical giants and their gargantuan intellect, and whether saying anything of relevance or of interest is related to one's intellect. Apparently there is something to this idea, whether one likes it or not.
On the other hand, methodologies are fun to talk about from time to time; but, what comes after the linguistic turn seems to me more in line with a natural return to existential concerns or, in the best case, a pragmatic solution to age old problems.
That was me. Seemed to me like an insubstantial unphilosophical discussion. I can move it back if enough people want that or if it gets some good responses.
My apologies to @StreetlightX for the mistaken accusation.
I think it is a very substantial question and I was very serious in asking it. It gets to the heart of what philosophy is and how it should be done. Perhaps you didn't like my smarty-pants way of saying things, but that's how I always am. You know that. I don't know how many of the responses you looked at, but throughout the thread I tried to make it clear that I came into it with an open mind. I wanted someone to help me understand what I was missing. Most of the respondents were open to my way of seeing things but some had suggestions about how to combine approaches. I found that helpful.
I think the biggest thing I got from the discussion was a reexamination of the practical sources and value of my philosophy. Writing about my years as an engineer as the source and grounding of my philosophy made me realize how practical I think philosophy is. How much I use it and have used it in the past. That's not something that gets considered much here.
I think you made a mistake moving it to the Lounge.
Apparently there is something to this idea, whether one likes it or not.
Sure that shouldn't be debated too much.
On the other hand, science was significantly easier in the 17th century. Today, to be a philosopher like Descartes or Kant, is practically impossible. Maybe Russell or before him, Peirce, was one of the few figures who could cover everything.
On the other hand, methodologies are fun to talk about from time to time; but, what comes after the linguistic turn seems to me more in line with a natural return to existential concerns or, in the best case, a pragmatic solution to age old problems.
I mean, you're on a philosophy forum and you're saying it's fine to be ignorant of widely recognized philosophers. Seems obnoxious and dumb to me.
I was making the case that there is another way to understand the nature of reality rather than listen to what other people have to say - it's to pay attention. That's what I think Kafka was saying.
We’re you suggesting that contemplation is undervalued in philosophy or something with the Kafka quote?
The philosopher who has meant the most to me is Lao Tzu, so there are aspects of eastern philosophies in the issues I'm discussing. The emphasis on experience, paying attention, awareness rather than on reason. And I don't think I was dismissing philosophy.
So, anyway @jamalrob, I had more fun defending my thread than I did participating in it. I got to be all self-righteous and stuff [joke]and to be a martyr to the small-minded philosophical establishment.[/joke] So I'll thank you for that.
Sorry TC but I just find this hard to believe. If you were that curious you would find out for yourself, no?
Aren't you just looking for validation of your laziness?
I don't think I need any validation for the way I do things. My ideas stand up with the best of those here on the forum. I don't mean I think I'm right and others are wrong. Just that I think I can express my ideas clearly and provide justification for my positions. I have a lot of confidence in how I know things. How I learn things. I've used my intellect and my philosophy in my everyday life for many years.
And I have "found out for myself." I took philosophy classes in college. I've tried to read all the big names. I just don't get it. In 81 short verses Lao Tzu describes all that is and all that has ever been. It seems to me that all the rest of the guys are just wrapping the simplicity of reality up in words to the point they think the words themselves are reality.
In 81 short verses Lao Tzu describes all that is and all that has ever been. It seems to me that all the rest of the guys are just wrapping the simplicity of reality up in words to the point they think the words themselves are reality.
Where the funky (my spelling aid corrected...) did that thread on philosophical poems walk to? Wanted to comment on the poetic universe.
Moved to the lounge. The moderators are paying me back for making a stink about moving another one of my threads to the Lounge, even though the Philosophical Poems thread has been on the front page for 4 years.
Reply to T Clark I was unhappy reading the interchange among you, Streetlight, and Jamalrob, et al regarding "You don't need to read philosophy to be a philosopher".
Isn't the best reason for your view that much of what philosophy aimed for is now embodied in science--what was once called 'natural philosophy'? Science was incompatible with religion, but it wasn't incompatible with philosophy. John Hunter sought to understand nature with a knife -- he spent decades in the latter half of the 18th century slicing and dicing human and animal bodies, and very carefully studying what he found.
Throughout the next two centuries an overburden of nonsense was scrapped off (some originating with famous philosophers) and a sound understanding of the human body and the world it occupies. like Hunter, scientists picked up tools to discover the reality of the world, be it telescopes, knives, ceramic filters (by which viruses were discovered), or Large Hadron Colliders.
. John Hunter sought to understand nature with a knife -- he spent decades in the latter half of the 18th century slicing and dicing human and animal bodies, and very carefully studying what he found
Was this John Hunter the first American serial killer? Or wasn't he American? Or is it still Starkweather, walking happily around in his badlands with his beloved Carrol-Ann? Fighting the law.
I thought it was great. I liked the references towards Islam and Muslim culture in the movie. Although it can come off as prejudiced if you think it's only about holy wars or jihad...
Might be an interesting study for sociologists/anthropologists.
The white evangelicals disproportionately are composed of the white underclass and tend to be less educated and worldly They are more susceptible to manipulative leadership that preys on their fears.
Those at the Capitol riots might have romanticized themselves as freedom fighters, but they were actually just pathetic, gullible lemmings, led by a puppeteer.
Might be time (as you said) to take a better look at this from a sociological perspective and analyze this disenfranchised class for what it is, as opposed to ridiculing it and demonizing it. I'm hopeful they can be elevated, as opposed to manipulated by their "friends" and demonized by their foes.
[i]Lemmings do not commit suicide. However, this particular myth is based on some actual lemming behaviors. Lemmings have large population booms every three or four years. When the concentration of lemmings becomes too high in one area, a large group will set out in search of a new home. Lemmings can swim, so if they reach a water obstacle, such as a river or lake, they may try to cross it. Inevitably, a few individuals drown. But it’s hardly suicide.
So why is the myth of mass lemming suicide so widely believed? For one, it provides an irresistible metaphor for human behavior. Someone who blindly follows a crowd—maybe even toward catastrophe—is called a lemming. Over the past century, the myth has been invoked to express modern anxieties about how individuality could be submerged and destroyed by mass phenomena, such as political movements or consumer culture.
But the biggest reason the myth endures? Deliberate fraud. For the 1958 Disney nature film White Wilderness, filmmakers eager for dramatic footage staged a lemming death plunge, pushing dozens of lemmings off a cliff while cameras were rolling. The images—shocking at the time for what they seemed to show about the cruelty of nature and shocking now for what they actually show about the cruelty of humans—convinced several generations of moviegoers that these little rodents do, in fact, possess a bizarre instinct to destroy themselves.[/i]
https://www.britannica.com/story/do-lemmings-really-commit-mass-suicide
I've read it several times. It's a long book, and a long story. Frank Herbert's Dune series is 5 titles; his son, Brian Herbert along with Kevin Anderson have extended the franchise, writing several prequels and sequels. It's all very rococo and intricately put together. One book, for instance, is about the early years of the Bene Gesserit. Another volume deals with the Butlerian Jihad against smart machines. Islam is a decorative theme in the books. Rabid tribalism is closer to the heart of it all.
The Orange Catholic Bible (referenced periodically in Dune) is a combination of eastern / western religious texts. The Fremen in Dune were the tribal residue of middle eastern people and religion.
I found Dune (volume 1) and Chapterhouse Dune (volume 6--about the Bene Gesseret's--and everybody else's--Crisis) the two volumes most worth re-reading.
I give much credit to Herbert for producing this sprawling series which is more or less coherent from one end to the other other.
Reply to Shawn Oil, or opium, or cocaine, or gold, or computer chips, cars, whatever.
Just as the Middle Earth trilogy by Tolkien is NOT about WWII, I don't think Dune is about oil or US foreign policy. Granted, it's tempting to read "oil" for "spice", but it would be as good a story if oil had never been discovered. In the real world, oil is produced in many locations around the globe. Does Dune resemble Venezuela, which has one of the largest oil reserves?
Dune resembles major power politics everywhere, not just the US Government's version.
Oil aside, the politics of Dune are very conservative; all of the major players are power trippers.
Your take on the Bene Gesserit is accurate. They are not a covert group (they are very much in the open) but their ultimate purposes are altogether covert.
At this very moment I should be bicycling over to the Riverview Theater for a matinee showing of Dune, but it's already too late for today's showing,
Isn't the best reason for your view that much of what philosophy aimed for is now embodied in science--what was once called 'natural philosophy'?
Whether or not that's a good reason, it isn't my reason. I am, if I may be so [s]bold[/s] deluded, an epistemologist and metaphysician. I love science, but I'm interested in what stands behind it. The nature of the ultimate base of reality is the foundation on which science rests. That's philosophy, metaphysics. I have a way of understanding reality that really works for me. I've laid it or parts of it out many times on the forum. I don't claim it's the only way to see things or even the best, but I believe it's the best for me, at least for today.
Oil aside, the politics of Dune are very conservative; all of the major players are power trippers.
I just finished the second book of the trilogy that’s an immediate prequel to Dune, by Brian and Kevin, and remember thinking in one part how conservative Duke Leto is in his loyal support of the empire.
I started a new thread in the Lounge - Just Poetry. I wanted to start from scratch after fiddling around with “Philosophical Poems” for a while. I’m not going to use or pay attention to that thread any more.
Since it's in the Lounge the thread will be lost forever unless someone works to keep it connected. My intention is to use the Shoutbox to let people know when there are new poems. If you decide to participate, I suggest you use the Shoutbox to let people know. Here's the link to the thread:
Hmmm. I've been thinking if it would be interesting to anybody to form a reading group to read Descartes Discourse and Meditations. They're not too long and it would force me get enough discipline to read him well. But people are busy and Descartes gets a lot of crap. Jus thinking out loud.
It wasn't you; I just didn't like Streetlight's and Jamalrob's comments.
Actually, I appreciated their comments. My way of seeing things is an outlier in relation to western philosophy and this forum. Hearing harsh criticism from people I respect really helped me understand the extent of our differences. Perhaps an unbridgeable chasm, although I think our differences are, as @Janus noted, a matter of taste rather than substance.
Oil aside, the politics of Dune are very conservative; all of the major players are power trippers.
[DUNE PLOT SPOILERS, EVEN IF YOU’VE SEEN THE FILM]
I got the impression, partly from what Herbert later said, that [hide] it was kind of a warning against manipulation by charismatic leaders, and that ultimately we're not meant to take the side of any of the power trippers.
I haven't read the book but I'll be reading it soon, so maybe don’t tell me that’s wrong, if it is. The point above about Paul not being the saviour that we might assume he is, is something that I unfortunately wasn't able to avoid finding out.[/hide]
The film is wonderful, but I didn't absorb it well and will have to see it again, after I read the book. Also it’s just part one, so definitely feels like half a film. And my problem was that it was subtitled in Russian, which meant I couldn't follow the parts when they're talking another language.
Is anybody else concerned that jamalrob might just be slowly going insane at this point? Or semi-tyrannical? Not sure which would be worse really. Hey I offered to buy the joint but couldn't get a straight answer as far as the price. Just as well I suppose. Knowledge only furthers ambitions, and no person is more honest than a child. Which is frightening.
I didn't think I was being all that harsh. I like to think it was in proportion to your provocative post.
I didn't mean it as a complaint. I intended for it to be matter of fact. Telling me my thoughts about an issue in philosophy I think is very important are not really philosophy and don't belong on the forum is harsh in my estimation. As I said, I appreciate the response. It made me rethink my position. It didn't change my opinion, but it clarified where my ideas fit, or don't fit, with mainstream philosophy. That's part of what I was looking for in the thread.
Just because some people were provoked doesn't necessarily mean my post was provocative. It wasn't intended to be.
I suspect that the poemy, arty people on the forum will know to look in the Lounge, and I feel some resistance to this use of the Shoutbox.
I'm surprised. The forum guidelines say:
You're likely to have more freedom in the Shoutbox or in discussions in the Lounge, for example, than in the philosophical discussions.
I've always taken that to mean almost anything goes. Gifs of pigs. Discussions like this. As long as it isn't disruptive. There have been some pretty stupid interchanges here. I participated in some of them. I don't think a few short notices will be disruptive.
Putting my thread in the Lounge won't work. It will die there. Few people use the Lounge. I don't. This seemed like a reasonable solution to a problem. You and probably others don't think the poetry belongs on the forum. I don't necessarily disagree. I could make the case either way. This seems like a good compromise. To be clear, I didn't do this as a way of thumbing my nose at the moderators about moving the other poetry thread.
I'll leave it up to you. If you, as the administrator, say I shouldn't use the Shoutbox any more to notify people of something in the Lounge, I won't, although it doesn't seem reasonable or fair to me. Please be more definitive.
I'll leave it up to you. If you, as the administrator, say I shouldn't use the Shoutbox any more to notify people of something in the Lounge, I won't, although it doesn't seem reasonable or fair to me. Please be more definitive.
I just said I felt a resistance to it. I wasn't telling anyone what to do or what not to do, and I went ahead and posted a link to your discussion on the next line, showing that even I wasn't comfortable with my own instinct.
BTW, the Lounge is quite active, particularly "What are you listening to now?"
Hmmm. I've been thinking if it would be interesting to anybody to form a reading group to read Descartes Discourse and Meditations. They're not too long and it would force me get enough discipline to read him well. But people are busy and Descartes gets a lot of crap. Jus thinking out loud.
Don't know how well reading groups hold up...
I'd like to encourage this. I hope you get some people to join in.
There have been a few reading groups:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/16/reading-groups
Just because some people were provoked doesn't necessarily mean my post was provocative. It wasn't intended to be.
As someone not at all provoked by your OP I’d like to say that I did find it provocative. If I had to guess, I’d say the reason for the unnecessary taunting manner of expression was to incite responses.
As someone not at all provoked by your OP I’d like to say that I did find it provocative. If I had to guess, I’d say the reason for the unnecessary taunting manner of expression was to incite responses.
@jamalrob
Thanks for the comment Praxis. I went back and reread it. You're right.
You think Shawn is obsessed ?!
How did it all start ? Why ?
In truth, I really felt sorry for those animals. They seem quite intelligent and very sociable. If people knew how spam is made they wouldn't eat it, as well as if you raised a pig you probably wouldn't eat it. This discrepancy between the desire to gratify oneself through eating and the probability of not eating spam or a pig is alluring to me.
I apologize for bringing this negative attention to your pig posts. I wasn't complaining about them, I was using them as an example of the freewheeling nature of the Shoutbox.
If people knew how spam is made they wouldn't eat it
I've been in the plant where Hormel made Spam. It's not disgusting; it's just done on an industrial scale. Pork shoulder and ham are the meaty ingredient, plus some potato starch, salt, sugar, and sodium nitrite are ground up, mixed, canned, and cooked. There is NO offal (organ meat, ears, tails, et cetera) in it. The plant I was observing is now run by some other company.
Spam is too salty for me, but it has been a popular item for a long time.
That said, the general atmosphere of a slaughterhouse can be appalling. For instance, in one work station, workers use air hoses to extract the brains of pigs. Pork brain is exported and used in Korean stir-fry cooking. What's disgusting is that the unprotected workers inhaled aerosolized brain matter and developed severe immune reactions in their own brains.
The human injury rate in slaughterhouses is extremely high for three reasons: The pace of work is too fast, the tools of the trade are extremely sharp, and the floors are greasy-slippery--a recipe for abundant and serious injury. Processors can get away with this because they broke the unions years ago and now use low wage migrant (legal and not) labor.
Yeah, once I can make the behavioral changes economically (basically you need more money to become a vegetarian), I think I'll stick to fish and chips or pollock fish.
Would you agree that behavioral changes in food eating is difficult and harder even on the lower end of the economic spectrum?
Well, one usually needs to learn to cook if one's food habits are to change successfully. A vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) diet can be affordable enough, but one has to learn to be okay with eating lots of beans, barley, buckwheat, and corn.
unenlightenedOctober 25, 2021 at 20:07#6116970 likes
Not so. I am generally vegetarian and have been for 50 years, but have eaten animals I raised, and also one I ran into. The principle I live by is that it is very rude to eat someone you haven't met. The old hen that no longer lays, the pig that has outgrown his place and allotment of resources, such old friends have to go and it would be insulting to refuse to eat them. Likewise the deer one unfortunately ran down. My brothers are still my friends - I feed them and they feed me. It's a relationship. Bits of anonymous corpse vacuum packed and fresh from the death camp - that's another matter.
Would you agree that behavioral changes in food eating is difficult and harder even on the lower end of the economic spectrum?
Absolutely.
Beans, barley, and buckwheat, per @baker are cheap, of course, but monotonous. One has to really like kale, kohlrabi, cabbage, chia seeds, and such. Tofu for all, seems like.
I like vegetables and fruits, so that part isn't the problem. It's the beans -- boring.
Yes, one has to learn to cook and flavor these foods, if one is not to give up on them. My best approach is to minimize meat and dairy, but continue to eat it. My cooking skills are just not what they used to be. Nor is my digestive tract (pointing at you, beans!)
The vegetarian pictures and recipes I see in the New York Times food articles often seem to appeal to people who really don't like food that much.
I like meat, dairy, and fish. I quite often make a millet porridge/pudding with milk, and it just isn't very appealing without dairy.
Beans, barley, and buckwheat, per baker are cheap, of course, but monotonous.
They are the core of the vegetarian diet, for proteins.
It's the beans -- boring.
I love beans! If you cook them correctly, you don't get gases from them. It's important to soak them overnight if they are dry and wash them thoroughly before cooking, and to spoon off all the foam right away when they cook. If you don't spoon off the foam, it will subside, and go into the beans, and this is what causes gases. (That's why it's not good to cook beans in a pressure cooker.)
I grow beans. Just today, I peeled (is that the word?) young beans and froze them, for four times for the whole family. I still have quite a bit left to pick. Growing enough beans to eat at least once per week for the whole year -- that takes a lot of poles.
Properly grown and properly stored pole beans are extremely tasty, even if you eat them prepared the same way. Usually, I just boil them, add a shallot onion or bayleaf, and salt toward the end of cooking, and then serve with some sour cream on top. But also in hearty soups, stews, salads. Beans everywhere!
You could, of course, butcher your friends and brothers yourself. A little death camp in the back yard. Chop chop.
The back yard is not a death camp. I kill chickens, I pay an expert to kill pigs. The back yard is unquestionably preindustrial. It's familial, as Hanover appreciates.
The principle I live by is that it is very rude to eat someone you haven't met. The old hen that no longer lays, the pig that has outgrown his place and allotment of resources, such old friends have to go and it would be insulting to refuse to eat them.
Resources, eh? I don't incorporate economics when I have a pet. At times I would even behave irrationally towards them. I have a very karmic conscious, it bothers me knowing I benefitted from something I cherished time with spending, as food. I will actually go into the deliberation of calculating that if an animal supports me emotionally it cannot do that twice in a row in benefitting me as a source of food from. Like I said I'm quite schizoid in some ways.
Like I said earlier, and which BitterCrank says, is true that you get more fish or Nordic salmon with a larger bank account.
Reply to Shawn Some of them were--Andrew, Peter, James and John for example. One was a thief, one a bureaucrat in the Roman Internal Revenue Service, one a politico. Philip was a very efficient organizer, but not very perceptive, apparently. So said some bloke on a web page.
Interestingly, for all their hewing to biblical strictures, the Puritans didn't eat fish much. One Puritan reported how disgusting oysters were. Strange. Just off shore were some of the richest shellfish and ocean fisheries in the world. The Puritans came from East Anglia, on the east coast of England--fish country. The Puritans were more likely to put fish in the soil as fertilizer. They did like pie, however.
Yes, there are good sources for all that information.
Norwegian salmon is farm raised. Wild-caught salmon is better. Personally, I like canned wild-caught salmon better than fresh farmed. They also farm salmon in southern Chile -- called "antarctic salmon". Don't you like cod fish? It does have a very fishy fragrance, but then... it IS fish, so what else should it smell like--squirrel?
Sardines and mackerel are also good for you. Tuna too.
I had a pet sardine. He didn't mind tight quarters, so he was a great pet in my 2' x 2' flat. My 3 roommates got tired of taking him for walks when I was away, so I had to stomp him to death.
I saw this video and thought you might start training goats and pigs. If you don't want to, then you might want to cultivate that desire. It's worth it.
If I were a psychopath (if, not when), my signature would be to put their severed head in their hand and aim it at the Netflix screen so it could binge watch.
If I were a psychopath (if, not when), my signature would be to put their severed head in their hand and aim it at the Netflix screen so it could binge watch.
I've noticed that your recent posts have read like plot summaries for "Itchy & Scratchy" episodes.
Reply to Shawn The boar has remarkably big balls. Were they sliced and done up in an air fryer, they would feed a large family.
OR
Reply to Shawn The boar has remarkably big balls. With the big bucks a pig balls porn site would pay for shots of those balls in action, a family of five could eat for a week!
OR
Reply to Shawn The boar has remarkably big balls. The trainer is getting the big-balled boar used to being tapped with a stick. It's a sort of grooming for the porcine orgy down the road. BTW, is that swine chewing gum, or silently mouthing vile pigass imprecations on the trainer?
If I were a psychopath (if, not when), my signature would be to put their severed head in their hand and aim it at the Netflix screen so it could binge watch.
— Hanover
I've noticed that your recent posts have read like plot summaries for "Itchy & Scratchy" episodes.
Dark humour is goood for you and shows high intelligence, apparently :100: :up: :cool:
Talking about severed heads...
A 2017 study published in the journal Cognitive Processing [40] concludes that people who appreciate dark humor "may have higher IQs, show lower aggression, and resist negative feelings more effectively than people who turn up their noses at it."
An 1825 newspaper used a gallows humor "story" of a criminal whose last wish before being beheaded was to go nine-pin bowling, using his own severed head on his final roll, and taking delight in having achieved a strike.
I had a pet sardine. He didn't mind tight quarters, so he was a great pet in my 2' x 2' flat. My 3 roommates got tired of taking him for walks when I was away, so I had to stomp him to death.
Oh my... :lol:
Can't wait for the Short Story competition, assuming it's still on the Christmas agenda @Baden ?
Robert-François Damiens, a French man who attempted to assassinate king Louis XV, was sentenced on March 26, 1757 to be executed in a gruesome and painstakingly detailed manner. He would first be led to the gallows, holding a torch with 2 lbs of burning wax. Pliers would then be used to tear his skin at the breast, arms and legs. Then his right arm, which held the knife he had used for his crime, would be burned with sulfur. The aforementioned areas with ripped skin would then be poured upon with molten lead, boiling oil, burning pitch, wax and sulfur. His body would then be dismembered by four horses, the members and trunk consumed in fire, and the ashes would be spread in the wind. After hearing the sentence, Damiens is reported to have replied: “Well, it's going to be a tough day.”
unenlightenedOctober 26, 2021 at 09:31#6120670 likes
If I were a psychopath (if, not when), my signature would be to put their severed head in their hand and aim it at the Netflix screen so it could binge watch.
Robert-François Damiens, a French man who attempted to assassinate king Louis XV, was sentenced on March 26, 1757 to be executed in a gruesome and painstakingly detailed manner. He would first be led to the gallows, holding a torch with 2 lbs of burning wax. Pliers would then be used to tear his skin at the breast, arms and legs. Then his right arm, which held the knife he had used for his crime, would be burned with sulfur. The aforementioned areas with ripped skin would then be poured upon with molten lead, boiling oil, burning pitch, wax and sulfur. His body would then be dismembered by four horses, the members and trunk consumed in fire, and the ashes would be spread in the wind. After hearing the sentence, Damiens is reported to have replied: “Well, it's going to be a tough day.”
The greatfull dead.
StreetlightOctober 26, 2021 at 15:59#6122530 likes
Reply to GraveItty The act itself was far worse than even the description. Foucault's long quotation describing Damiens' death in his Discipline and Punish is the stuff of philosophical legend:
[Content warning - graphic torture]:
Bouton, an officer of the watch, left us his account: 'The sulphur was lit, but the flame was so poor that only the top skin of the hand was burnt, and that only slightly. Then the executioner, his sleeves rolled up, took the steel pincers, which had been especially made for the occasion, and which were about a foot and a half long, and pulled first at the calf of the right leg, then at the thigh, and from there at the two fleshy parts of the right arm; then at the breasts. Though a strong, sturdy fellow, this executioner found it so difficult to tear away the pieces of flesh that he set about the same spot two or three times, twisting the pincers as he did so, and what he took away formed at each part a wound about the size of a six-pound crown piece.
...'After these tearings with the pincers, Damiens, who cried out profusely, though without swearing, raised his head and looked at himself; the same executioner dipped an iron spoon in the pot containing the boiling potion, which he poured liberally over each wound. Then the ropes that were to be harnessed to the horses were attached with cords to the patient's body; the horses were then harnessed and placed alongside the arms and legs, one at each limb.
...'The horses tugged hard, each pulling straight on a limb, each horse held by an executioner. After a quarter of an hour, the same ceremony was repeated and finally, after several attempts, the direction of the horses had to be changed, thus: those at the arms were made to pull towards the head, those at the thighs towards the arms, which broke the arms at the joints. This was repeated several times without success. He raised his head and looked at himself. Two more horses had to be added to those harnessed to the thighs, which made six horses in all. Without success.
... 'After two or three attempts, the executioner Samson and he who had used the pincers each drew out a knife from his pocket and cut the body at the thighs instead of severing the legs at the joints; the four horses gave a tug and carried off the two thighs after them, namely, that of the right side first, the other following; then the same was done to the arms, the shoulders, the arm-pits and the four limbs; the flesh had to be cut almost to the bone, the horses pulling hard carried off the right arm first and the other afterwards. 'When the four limbs had been pulled away, the confessors came to speak to him; but his executioner told them that he was dead, though the truth was that I saw the man move, his lower jaw moving from side to side as if he were talking. One of the executioners even said shortly afterwards that when they had lifted the trunk to throw it on the stake, he was still alive. The four limbs were untied from the ropes and thrown on the stake set up in the enclosure in line with the scaffold, then the trunk and the rest were covered with logs and faggots, and fire was put to the straw mixed with this wood. ' . . . In accordance with the decree, the whole was reduced to ashes".
Your cultural Cop26: films, TV shows and podcasts to help you save the planet
Want to do more for the planet but can’t even motivate yourself to rinse tin cans before recycling? Maybe some great culture can help. Here are inspirational films to get you excited about changing the way you eat, stirring podcasts full of fabulous ideas and, for those of you who need a stark warning, a David Attenborough documentary.
What is 'philosophical' about this description of torture?
It's part of the psychopathic aesthetic movement where pain is so beautifully described it transports the reader into a profound state of orgasmic euphoria.
I visited a massive garbage dump a few weeks ago. I was actually surprised to see so many pigs. I thought that association was kind of a common tale: "dirty as a pig".
Yes, I am also a beet fan. Boiled or pickled. Hot or cold on salads. I use them for ballast on my hot air balloon.
I remember driving with my brother in Belgium through farm land in a beet growing area. Sugar beets the size of footballs which had fallen off farm trucks were driving hazards on the road.
I used to hate beets. My father would eat borscht and put a spoonful of sour cream in it that would sort of float around undissolved. It was a nasty old world concoction he insisted upon preserving. I've come around on beets generally though. I'd feed them to the kids and warn them that the next time they went to the bathroom not to be worried that they're bleeding their guts out, but they're just experiencing one of the fun things that beets brings their way.
Speaking of food, my favorite food is "Wahoo!" food. At Kroger, if there's some meat or vegetable that's about to go bad, they put a "Wahoo!" sticker on it and cut the price. I just got two great big turkey wings for $4.50 that made two full meals. They went really well with $1.00 cans of beets.
You can imagine how excited the missus is when I go shopping and she sorts through the bags to find all the Wahoo food I was able to secure.
We have Krispy Kreme doughnuts the size of watermelons all over the road. It's so dangerous.
I like the original ones that melt in your mouth, not the kind with fillings, but I can't eat more than one. They are so sweet they actually give me a headache. I think it's just puffed up icing coated with sugar.
See what I mean? How the f. does he know that God doesn't exist? Interesting things Piggy Baggini might say, he is still a piggy!
What's all the stuff about pigs here? As a matter of fact, I addressed them in a removed thread here, the reasons of removal being still unclear to me. About philosophical poems, in which I wanted to give a spicy critique on a pressing contributor. I did my own pressing, and... about an adorable pig!
So Big Sister Pighead asked:
"Oh Piggy Pigly on the wall
Who is ugliest of them all?"
After heavy, steaming snore
It replied to Sister Soar
"Oh Big Hog, behold
That's where the beauty lies
The ugliest are you, I'm told
By my hideous eyes
But beware that in time
Beauty too can rhyme
Upon your dirty slime
As on every random swine"
"If that's the case"
Growled Sister in delight
"On will be the chase!
Thanks Oh Pigly Bright!"
Every eye was asked with force
To collect with every other
Devourng them, wild like horse
She didn't care to bother
Every eye, her own ones too
Cracked by her tombstone teeth
Filling her with ugly foo
From her pighead big to feet
So her ugliness was frozen
Beauty was no more a but
Feeling lucky and chosen
She wallowed ugly in the mud
The Bavarian cream one is original (pictured above). The holiday inspired ones are recent. But I agree. It's a ball of air and sugar. Supposedly the original recipe was French.
It's a nice book, though the context it's written in is the scientific one.
In short:
It presents 100 thought experiments. It sketches short scenarios which form a problem. In a vivid, colorfull, and concrete way, it invites the reader to think about possible solutions (answers) for themselves. The experiments relate to Identity, ethics, art, language, knowledge, religion, simulated reality, etc.
Piggy Baggini is a faithfull propagandist of the sciences.
Oink oink! Gnarly gnarf! If oink becomes gnarf then they must be oinkily as well as gnarfilly connected by a oinkilogical overarching metagrumbling reality. All hail to the great Gnarf!
I used to hate beets. My father would eat borscht and put a spoonful of sour cream in it that would sort of float around undissolved. It was a nasty old world concoction he insisted upon preserving.
I have a similar experience with oysters. I grew up on and around the Chesapeake Bay. My family was fond of oysters. I was not. I have a vivid memory of my grandfather walking down into the bay next to his dock. He walked into the water with no boots. He felt around on the bottom with his feet, reached down and pulled out an oyster, opened it, rinsed out the silt, and ate it. Obviously, that made an impression on me. It is one of my most vivid memories more than 60 years later.
The problem with oysters for us was not raw oysters, it was oyster stew. Once on twice a year my mother would make it for my father. My older brother and I would come home, see what she was cooking, and fall into a pit of existential dread. I come from a "you have to eat at least two bites" family. The memory of the hour or two till dinner has given me strong empathy for death row inmates.
Somewhere along the line, probably in my early 30s, I said, "What the hell, I'll try a raw oyster and see." I tried it and really liked it. I still think beets are better, mainly because a years supply costs the same as about a dozen oysters.
We have Krispy Kreme doughnuts the size of watermelons all over the road. It's so dangerous.
I came from Delaware, which was then outside the breeding range of Krispy Kreme. The first time I had one was on the way to a Boy Scout Jamboree in Richmond, VA. It was still warm. It disappeared in my mouth. I was amazed. The next time I remember having one was in about 2010 on a trip to Atlanta. Since then I've had them a few times. I'm with @Hanover. A little goes a long, long way and the only ones worth the trouble are the original.
When Krispy Kreme started moving north, southern expatriates in New England were in ecstasy. They waited in long lines for hours. I looked down my nose and sneered at the classless rubes. Then Dunkin Donuts moved south. Expatriates from the north were in ecstasy. They waited in long lines for donuts, and even worse, Dunkin Donuts Coffee, which is ... gloriously, indescribably mediocre. My head fell in shame.
An echo camber gives you the weird feeling of inescapability. I experienced it while whispering in one of its focal points. In whatever direction I whispered, it all came back into my ears with almost the same intensity I whispered with. Residing in a focal point of reality gave me the creeps. Somehow, modern civilization gives me that same feeling.
Good news - my younger son came over last night and made a purple salad. Red cabbage, radicchio, beets, olives, little slices of orange, and cilantro. Red wine vinegar and rape seed oil dressing. It was wonderful. One of the best salads I've ever had. Beets and olives together; one sweet, one savory and salty, both earthy. They go together very well.
Bad news - It turns out my elder son, a great cook, doesn't like beets.
"The supercomputer, called Jiuzhang 2, can calculate in a single millisecond a task that the fastest conventional computer in the world would take a mind-numbing 30 trillion years to do."
Imagine that! Could you think about the task performed? What serial completion of which task, a serial completion of sub-tsaks, taking 30 trillion years, can be replaced by a parallel completion of different sub-tasks, taking a milli-second only? Is it ladt Rethoric talking here? How many entangled states are necessary?
From what I've seen, they're both sort of self-important doinks, although I do agree, a doink with a megaphone is better than a doink with a semi-automatic weapon.
Hmmm...now imagine someone in tech valley, figuring out the mathmatical squencing to have a built in reward system, to influence the brain to increase the supply of dopamine for say every: gain, kill, drifting, longer time spans between that specific game has been played.
Oh my the power that would be yeilded over the end user.
Wow :gasp: that kind of represents the pattern of a meth addict.
ArguingWAristotleTiffOctober 30, 2021 at 15:47#6145620 likes
In other news: I was faced with a reality of the truth during an interview with a first responder.
My question was quite simple: what do you see is an unmet need the community?
The answer: there is a shortage of beds for those who are seeking help from a domestic violence situation.
Example was the night before my interview a woman called in from the Greyhound bus station and the Phoenix PD responded and once separated the officers tried to find a safe place for her and she had to be told there were no empty beds at the safe shelter or at the NGOs like Soujourner center.
The absolute frustration of knowing what courage/fear it took for that person to make the call for help and then not be able to provide them a bed?
It's a heartbreaking thing to hear about and let me say, my biggest weakness as I work on becoming a Social worker, is my desire to help and not quit until I am able to help or until it's clear that you really don't want my help.
Hmmm...now imagine someone in tech valley, figuring out the mathmatical squencing to have a built in reward system, to influence the brain to increase the supply of dopamine for say every: gain, kill, drifting, longer time spans between that specific game has been played.
Oh my the power that would be yeilded over the end user.
Yep. If you're going to be dealing with addicts, you might be interested in this, although it's long. You may not have time to watch it.
It's a heartbreaking thing to hear about and let me say, my biggest weakness as I work on becoming a Social worker, is my desire to help and not quit until I am able to help or until it's clear that you really don't want my help.
In logic, the law of excluded middle (or the principle of excluded middle) states that for every proposition, either this proposition or its negation is true.It is one of the so called three laws of thought, along with the law of noncontradiction, and the law of identity. However, no system of logic is built on just these laws, and none of these laws provide inference rules, such as modus ponens or De Morgan's laws.
Is it mandatory to quote Wikipedia as my source?
SophistiCatOctober 30, 2021 at 21:58#6147020 likes
Reply to GraveItty You have no self-respect, do you? How many times have you been kicked out of here?
• is it ok to not talk about drugs we are using even if half the people on the forum are regular users of substances that make them wanna philosophise. Adderall or weed or some other drug for example.
• if they are not talking about it and still post. Wouldn't that be a symptom of their drug use? A delusion of grandeur or a feeling that they are serving in god's name for example or an obsession with things that are trivial but may appear to be of great importance to the drug user.
All people here, with of without drugs, use this forum as the drug. They are addicted to it. Wanting to show their enormous intelligence and great wit. Faking it obviously, as they almost all show a lack of true intelligence or true wit. Mainly abstract philosophical bs stems from their pathetic urge to abstract knowledge evacuations. At least, attempts to it, as most don-t reach organizations, or are simply impotent. There is no speaking of women, no real humor, except in that terrible abstract way, trying to show an unnatural wit. Luckily there are exceptions to the implicit rule. Talking about drugs without actually knowing, abstract knowledge without actually knowing. Abstract wit, without actually being funny. There are exceptions and those are usually the more human-like ones.showing a knowledge or admitting their lack of it. But most here are jealous, abstract Americans, trying to ejaculated wise words without being wise. Being impotent, they don't succeed. Well, in the usual abstract way. Being the imitators of Plato and Xenophanes, the attitude of whom has sent our world to the brink of extinction. There is no true freedom to be found here. As there isn't in the Legoland transformed physical world. Lucky I have the gift of the word and as such I try to bring some light and liberty back in our beautiful world. I thought philosophy was all about freedom. Obviously, it isn't. Philosophy here has been reduced to an abstract excercisee, endlessly making references to science, in whose name the abstract illusion is prolonged. Furthering the abstract. I have seen not one physicist here knowing actual physics, except people having a seemingly knowledge but on closer inspection just expressing empty verbiage. Modern philosophy is a nice drug. An abstract heroin, though abstract methadone would be more appropriate. Which right now gives me inspiration! Whatever daily drug it is for some, it's still a drug. How craving for a forum they would be! In their infinite mutually othonormal attempts. Without ever finding relief. Without ever substantially ejaculated, their mental speed being abstractly deformed without having the capability anymore to donate the gift of life. Aaaaahhh, yes! Wow! That relieved.
unenlightenedOctober 31, 2021 at 08:44#6149540 likes
I made a small discovery about addiction. I was a smoker for 50 years or so, and always found it very difficult to quit. Well impossible actually. And it occurred to me that this was rather odd. Surely there is nothing easier than not doing something one does not want to do? Realising that I could not deny it, I had to accept that the whole difficulty lay in the fact that I didn't want to stop.
Now if someone said "I want to be a great musician, but I cannot be bothered to practice." I would say that that is a foolish contradiction, because being a great musician is almost nothing other than many years of constant practice. And likewise, ending an addiction is almost nothing but undergoing the withdrawal symptoms.
Once I had worked through this and resolved the contradiction in my own thinking, not smoking was indeed much easier than smoking. And cheaper - who knew?
SpaceDwellerOctober 31, 2021 at 11:05#6149870 likes
Reply to Wheatley
Your video should be made sticky on top of forums.
https://youtu.be/Se20RoB331w
DecheleSchilderOctober 31, 2021 at 12:05#6150050 likes
For a wannabe musician, it is very easy not to practice, like it is for you to quit smoking or for a heroin addict to stop shooting up.
A musician wants to play music, a smoker wants to enjoy his cigarette, a morphine addict longs for the ambrosine and amaranthine state of reality detached feeling good.
They will all three suffer from withdrawal symptoms when not practicing their habit, no matter if they feel addicted or not, which is a judgement to be made for themselves. If you feel a slave of money, then you are addicted to it. No matter how others might think of that.
The musician will long for playing the guitar and becomes mentally ill without it. The crystal meth smoker will crave for the stuff and will become physically ill if they don't take that stuff. You will long for a cigarette with the consequence that you will feel a mental or physical lack. In all these cases it seems pretty easy to just quit. But it's hard at the same time.
Is this the contradiction you refer to? If not, what contradiction you refer to? I can't see any other contradiction here.
Is giving in to a habit the easy way out? That depends on the nature of the habit. If you like smoking and truly wanna stop (for whatever reason) then clinging to the habit is indeed the easy way out and a sign that you not wanna stop at all, or just the sign that you are a slave of the cigarette, a cigarette addict. Lies the contradiction you have in mind (and seemingly have resolved) here in?
If not smoking is so much easier than smoking, then why smoking? Why there is such a wide variety of smoker aids to help them with their struggle in these healthy and fit dominated era, in which a healthy body and an impeccable fitness are emphasized by a unhealthy health-dominated variant of the mafia? How will look a similar aid to the music addicted in hisir attempt to quit the guit? Daily dosed music notes to be played on an included
folded-up disposable guitar for one-time use only, like the socially accepted daily dose of methadone is given daily to the heroin junk to prevent them from hustling and being a public nuisance (and generating profit for the pharmalogical companies, who have delivered an even worse artificial molecule than the natural stuff, thereby giving it a more accepted atatus).
If you wanna be a musician, but don't bother to practice, then you are not a musician. Like if you wanna be a non-smoker and don't bother to be one shows that you that you are not a non-smoker. Or just choosing for an easy way out. From something you long for but are unable to reach And this makes the feeling of addiction find a way.
The contradiction was, I want to stop smoking, and I want a cigarette. They cannot both be true. The resolution is simply to decide which is true, and which is false. Know thyself, and there can be no contradiction. As soon as one is single minded, these things are effortless, it is only a conflicted mind that has any need for effort and will-power. "So tell me what you want, what you really really want..."
The contradiction was, I want to stop smoking, and I want a cigarette. They cannot both be true. The resolution is simply to decide which is true, and which is false. Know thyself, and there can be no contradiction. As soon as one is single minded, these things are effortless, it is only a conflicted mind that has any need for effort and will-power. "So tell me what you want, what you really really want..."
No. When I smell tobacco, or see old films with lots of folk smoking I smile and remember that person I used to be. I haven't given up anything at all, I no longer think I want to smoke. I guess it's like losing your faith - you don't miss it, and you cannot go back to it.
The contradiction was, I want to stop smoking, and I want a cigarette. They cannot both be true. The resolution is simply to decide which is true, and which is false. Know thyself, and there can be no contradiction. As soon as one is single minded, these things are effortless, it is only a conflicted mind that has any need for effort and will-power. "So tell me what you want, what you really really want..."
The law of the excluded middle used in a real life situation. Practical philosophy always makes me smile.
Reply to Shawn Happy All Hallows Eve to you--the liturgical non-event before the bigger All Saints Day on November 1. Many churches remember members, family, and friends who have died during the previous year (starting with November 2). Fortunately, the people here who haven't been banned or left in disgust seem not to have died -- though one can't be sure. Their personal computers may have decided to carry on as if nothing had changed.
How would we know if a member died?
The more overt pagan holiday that is like All Hallows Eve is Walpurgisnacht, celebrated in Germany (particularly) by adults and children dressing up as witches having parties, bonfires, (always good for book burnings, heretic executions), and so on. It's celebrated on April 30, midnight to midnight May 1. Not to be confused with Kristallnacht, November 9, 1938, which was a one off pagan event, or Eine kleine Nachtmusik, which is a highbrow event. Highbrow swine are welcome to attend, as long as they are properly attired. Orchestra Hall is a great place to wallow.
So, there was a pagan thingy on October 31. In the olden days, before large pumpkins were created, peasants carved largish rutabagas and turnips.
The more overt pagan holiday that is like All Hallows Eve is Walpurgisnacht, celebrated in Germany (particularly) by adults and children dressing up as witches having parties, bonfires, (always good for book burnings, heretic executions), and so on.
A fun team to watch in the playoffs this year, although I couldn't truly root for them since they beat Cleveland in '95. I was rooting for Rosario though.
god must be atheistNovember 03, 2021 at 17:19#6163290 likes
Reply to Shawn Because god knows god exists. He has no need for faith to accept that he exists. An atheist is one who believes there is no god. If you have knowledge, then faith does not come into play. Therefore god does not have to have faith that he himself exists. Ergo, he lacks faith in god, since he has knowledge of god. And since he lacks faith in god, he is not a theist (a person who BELIEVES there is god.) And since he is not a theist, he is an atheist.
god must be atheistNovember 03, 2021 at 17:22#6163310 likes
I answered it last night when I was very sleepy. I was very satisfied with my answer. However, I did not click on "commit" or whatever it is that exits the editor and makes the post permanent. My bad.
unenlightenedNovember 03, 2021 at 18:19#6163630 likes
And there was me thinking that knowledge was a species of belief. (justified, true...)
Thank you. I was instrumental to their success, but few have offered me the thanks I would have expected. I watched a couple of the National League Championship games and then I listened to the last couple of World Series games on the radio. Other than that, I didn't follow them much this year, or really any year now that I think about it. I prefer listening to games on the radio because of its nostalgic quality. Also, I don't get regular TV channels and apparently Netflix doesn't televise Braves' games. There's that reason too.
Next up, the Dawgs are going to win the national championship. Georgia is the state of champions. That's why I live here. If the teams start losing, I'm going to leave this beat town, maybe go to the Frisco Bay, sit on the docks, watch the tide roll away.
Sorry, by any standard Massachusetts is the state of champions. I can't imagine any changes in Atlanta's team's success will drive you up here, although you're welcome.
Sorry, by any standard Massachusetts is the state of champions. I can't imagine any changes in Atlanta's team's success will drive you up here, although you're welcome.
On my map, there are a bunch of little states in the northeast so small the names don't fit in the state, so I'm not really sure what's Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and maybe some others. I'm not even sure if there's a difference between Vermont and New Hampshire and think the names of those can be used interchangeably. I guess what I'm saying is that where ever you live isn't very important, but thanks for the invite. I'll be there at 10ish. Make me some clam chowder, but make the real kind, you know, the type in the tomato sauce. I don't want like the milky kind. Milk is for cereal, not seafood.
If I'm not there by 10:15, feel free to start without me. I probably got lost on a turnpike. I think that's what you guys call roads up there.
And there was me thinking that knowledge was a species of belief. (justified, true...)
There are two schools of that. There is blind belief, which has no knowledge, and there is knowledge, which some say includes belief. This is what they teach in the lower grades of school.
In the higher grades, they teach the following: If belief is part of knowledge, how can it be blind? once belief becomes knowledge, it stops being a belief. Belief contains an element of uncertainty, which stops it from being knowledge. "I believe in miracles" makes no claim that miracles happen; it makes a claim about my attitude to hold it possible that miracles can happen. That's belief. Once I see a miracle happen, then it becomes knowledge, and I can say, "I know miracles happen. I saw one the other day." I no longer require of myself to hold a belief in miracles; because I have knowledge that they do occur.
Your perspective on pig ownership might be slightly romanticized. I would take the next few weeks rethinking your pig infatuation, perhaps redirecting your energy in other things, like, I don't know, maybe kittens. Everyone loves kittens.
But, I honestly believe your farm will become a happier place if you adopt a pig or two, and with it you will become happier. You'd think pigs are high maintenance, but that's simply not true...
I checked my list of schools and didn't see Harvard School on there.
You'll find Harvard on a different list, one for schools who's former football players probably won't suffer crippling arthritis or premature dementia. You know, the list of losers.
Hi philosophers,
we have started a "Philosophy of mind" group in Discord's "Philosophy Bookclub" channel.
We'll start reading the book of Christof Koch "The feeling of life itself" next November 15th.
Anyone interested?
Red cabbage, radicchio, beets, olives, little slices of orange, and cilantro. Red wine vinegar and rape seed oil dressing.
I tried it, but substituted kielbasa sausage for the cabbage, pinto beans for the beets, and left out the radicchio because they didn't have any at the Circle K. The rest I left in there. The wine vinegar felt misplaced, but, other than that, it's probably going to be a new staple in the Hanover household.
I tried it, but substituted kielbasa sausage for the cabbage, pinto beans for the beets, and left out the radicchio because they didn't have any at the Circle K. The rest I left in there. The wine vinegar felt misplaced, but, other than that, it's probably going to be a new staple in the Hanover household.
I support "creative" reworking of recipes, similar to what you've done. Since you're a "good old boy," you might want to try some substitutions that will make it even more a "Southern Delite." To start out, substitute okra fried in lard for all the vegetable ingredients. For extra flavor, you can roll the okra in crushed boiled "peanuts" before frying. If you don't have boiled peanuts, wet cardboard works just as well. For dressing, use 1/4 cup catchup, 1/4 cup Miracle Whip ®, and 1 tablespoon Royal Crown Cola. Goes well with fried catfish and dry, tasteless cornbread. "Get her done!"
I'm rereading John LeCarre's "The Honorable Schoolboy," which is the middle book in his Smiley/Karla trilogy. I'd reread the other two books - "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy," and "Smiley's People" more recently. I also rewatch the BBC version of TTSS and Smiley's people once every year or two.
Having this on my Kindle feels like I have a present I can unwrap over and over. LeCarre is such a wonderful writer. His writing feels like silk. Tastes like rare roast beef. Most good books have two or three really compelling characters. His have dozens.
SpaceDwellerNovember 04, 2021 at 21:35#6168230 likes
I just double clicked on left side of a forum and it suddenly went back.
Then I did the same on the right side of a forum and it teleported me into the future lol.
You guys really have the sense of web design :starstruck:
I think we usually start a thread, read portions, discuss, derail, get back to the text, derail again, ask a moderator to tell somebody to shut up, go out into left field, the end.
Is there a time that would work better for you?
ArguingWAristotleTiffNovember 05, 2021 at 00:10#6169040 likes
I just double clicked on left side of a forum and it suddenly went back.
Then I did the same on the right side of a forum and it teleported me into the future lol.
You guys really have the sense of web design :starstruck:
Hiya SpaceDweller!
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Enjoy your stay :flower:
Tiff
I can start a thread tomorrow and try to make an introduction. I haven't read Parmenides, and I've heard it's thick, so unless a more experienced philosophy buff comes along, it would be a slow start.
I was typing a message and I hit the wrong button or something, and then all this code stuff came onto the right side of my screen. I feel like I've gotten on the other side of the matrix and I'm now thinking that all of reality is composed from these cryptic writings and that none of us actually exist. I think if I dig deep enough, I'll find the Hanover code that is me and I'll be able to manipulate my own existence into whatever I want, becoming a god over my own creation.
The first thing I think I'll change about me is how I change simple salad recipes into sausage and bean dinners. I don't like that about me.
StreetlightNovember 05, 2021 at 13:06#6170540 likes
This is the only time I have ever heard time of Kielbasa mentioned - it never occurred to me that it is an actual thing:
Reply to Hanover You must have pressed F12 or Ctrl+Shift+I, revealing the developer tools. As a developer myself, for whom that's an everyday tool, I got an alert that a non-developer had somehow found their way in to the secret kingdom. You will be contacted shortly.
ArguingWAristotleTiffNovember 05, 2021 at 14:17#6170680 likes
I think if I dig deep enough, I'll find the Hanover code that is me and I'll be able to manipulate my own existence into whatever I want, becoming a god over my own creation.
I think you are already a god over your own very, very, very, very small creation.
ArguingWAristotleTiffNovember 05, 2021 at 17:15#6171270 likes
I finally found the definition of "God" “Spiritual assessment is defined as an existential relationship with God or a perceived transcendence”. (Hodge & Holtrop)
What exactly is a "perceived transcendence"?
Seems like they are talking about God as an experience. The idea of the direct experience of God as evidence for his existence makes sense to me. It's not an experience I've ever had, but I don't dismiss the possibility in others.
I used to read stuff where sentences like that appeared. These days I avoid authors who talk about "perceived transcendence". Can you have an transcendent experience that you don't perceive? Seems unlikely.
god must be atheistNovember 06, 2021 at 02:26#6174270 likes
I used to read stuff where sentences like that appeared. These days I avoid authors who talk about "perceived transcendence". Can you have an transcendent experience that you don't perceive? Seems unlikely.
I think the distinction is that in real transcendence, you really transcend. In perceived transcendence you think you have transcended, but not really. It's like faking an orgasm.
I dunno. I tried to fake orgasms before, but it's not the same thing. There is a lot lacking in there. Not worth it. Don't buy any cheap imitations. Remember the brand name, "Marilyn".
Michael ZwingliNovember 06, 2021 at 11:44#6174860 likes
@jamalrob,
Given the software employed here, is it possible for one to find a listing of one's posted content, should he wish to revisit older posts?
I think the distinction is that in real transcendence, you really transcend. In perceived transcendence you think you have transcended, but not really. It's like faking an orgasm.
Hmmm....I wonder if my final exam is a multiple choice :blush:
thank you. It would be nice to have a button for "own content", no?
You want a way to re-read your own posts without the distraction of other people's replies so that you can admire your own handiwork without having to see the fingerprint smudges on the wall from the children who visited?
Michael ZwingliNovember 06, 2021 at 16:25#6175220 likes
Reply to Hanover I wouldn't say that, so much as I would like to revisit my thoughts on occasion. Sometimes I begin to second guess my judgements, etc.
Michael ZwingliNovember 06, 2021 at 16:32#6175230 likes
On the Latin Forum that I participate in occasionally, there is, within the "user account" drop down menu, a tab which reads "your content", which will bring up a complete chronological list of one's own posts. The software of this site being apparently much superior to that on "Latin D.", I would tend to think that TPF could easily accommodate such an addition.
within the "user account" drop down menu, a tab which reads "your content", which will bring up a complete chronological
There might be a possibility that they made a typo, and wanted to write "you're content". You are happy when you see that list, happier when you see your wisdom's list on this site, so "you're" content is apt and to the point.
I am the first to admit that this here is a stupid post by me.
When I want to take a look at a specific one of my own past posts, I generally use the advanced search function. I put in a key word then specify "T Clark" under "Posted by." You can use the date range box to tighten up the search a bit. I can usually find what I'm looking for quickly.
Famous fictional old-style rich guys. As John Mulaney once said about Donald Trump before Trump became president - What a hobo imagines a rich man to be.
No, never think so. I simply didn't realize initially that the icon consisting of three vertical dots meant "you". I only discovered that after Verdi's post. Sorry about the confusion.
Michael ZwingliNovember 06, 2021 at 23:18#6176320 likes
Reply to Shawn Nice of Big Pig to step back from ravishing the apple and give the other guys a chance.
god must be atheistNovember 07, 2021 at 04:26#6177120 likes
Reply to praxis Praxis is at it again doing his practice. Why he hates me is a mystery to me, but now I got used to it. Maybe he has a reason, or maybe it is an innate dislike that he can't but obey. Or maybe he is just plain, unadulterated stupid, who enjoys bullying because he is incapable of interacting socially in any other way. Or maybe he feels superior to me to the extent that he feels he has a birthright to abuse me.
Whatever his motivation, it is rooted in insanity, I'm sure. It is a morbid hatred, by its intensity, by its lack of basis. There is nothing I can do to change that. I don't think he has a strong enough grasp of reality so to try to reason with him is a lost cause as far as he is concerned. His hatred for me is about at par with Hitler's hatred for Jews; he has no reason, no cause, except his own sick mind that perceives reality not as it is, but how it is deformed by the voices he may be hearing.
So since I or anyone else can't do anything about his morbid, unfounded, uncaused and only to him obviously justified hatred for me, I just let it ride and view his abuses as one of life's unnecessary and stupid, dumbfounding and irreversible little curses, that one has to endure out of lack of available other remedies to doctor it.
Reply to jamalrob We haven't done much with dance here; maybe we should have a contest where members send in videos of themselves doing the new "ravish the apple" dance.
His hatred for me is about at par with Hitler's hatred for Jews;
Whatever is between Praxis and you, you lose your moral and rhetorical standing and any claim to sympathy when you compare it to Hitler and the Jews. It makes you look like a bigot and a fool.
Apropos, the Atheist God’s mockery of the first guest and the resultant vendetta: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/7163/stoicism-is-an-attractive-life-philosophy-but-can-it-be-taught
I want to understand his categories better, but Peirce himself does not explain them terribly well. Any help here would be much appreciated.
Have you tried typing 'Peirce' in the Searchbox.
There are previous discussions which might have covered your questions. Of course, it might be quicker if you start your own thread...and possibly more interesting :smile:
The only member that instantly came to mind was @Ciceronianus.
However, there are bound to be more still hanging around...keen to help...
Failing that. Have you tried Google ? I found this but no idea how good it is !
Reply to Wheatley Just guessing, but shaving the top off a rented truck probably marked the low point of an already bad day. (Helping disorganized friends move is usually a major pain in the ass.)
We were in a U-hall truck and got stuck under an overpass in Madison, Wisconsin. We had to let some air out of the tires and try to back out from under the bridge -- this during evening rush hour. During the same trip we also hit the canopy at a Kickapoo gas station in a small town in Wisconsin. Somewhere along the line the door also got dented. I snapped the dent out with a toilet plunger. I wasn't driving -- just helping a college teacher (English) move. Late that hot, humid September night, the fucking junk in the fucking truck got unloaded. I got a case of pubic lice on this trip, to round out the whole experience.
Moral of the story: Don't help English professors move and don't sleep with them.
Comparisons with Adolf seem to pop up in every internet conversations. Why is that?
Because the example is clear, concise, and understood by everyone on the planet.
Hitler is seen as unreasonable tyrant who used brute force against a defenseless people. He organized a nation to treat them cruelly with drummed up causes.
This sort of behaviour is often repeated in interpersonal relationships and in political movements, therefore Hitler's example is a good paradigm to exemplify the type of behaviour when one wants to refer to it.
That's why.
god must be atheistNovember 10, 2021 at 05:39#6188660 likes
Whatever is between Praxis and you, you lose your moral and rhetorical standing and any claim to sympathy when you compare it to Hitler and the Jews. It makes you look like a bigot and a fool.
I don't see how that is possible.
Hitler treated and organized an entire nation to torture and kill another people on drummed up and absolutely false charges. He did that because he had a very strong hatred for Jews, which hatred was impossible to stop.
Praxis hates me NOT because I am Jewish; that is the wrong conclusion from the simile. Praxis hates me in a way which is 1. unfounded and 2. unchangeable, and 3. very strong. In these aspects the parallel is strong, it exists and it can't be denied.
There is nothing racist, immoral or theoretically wrong in my using this comparison. Only if you interpret it the wrong way. So I spelled it out for you what the similarity entails, so there is no confusion any more what I meant by and why I used the similarity of Praxis's behaviour to Hitler's. Both have or had an absolute, unfounded, and unchangeable hatred. Hitler against Jews, Praxis against me.
I hope you can see now why I used this example, and I hope that now you agree that the theory stands, and I did not lose moral ground, and I am not a bigot or a fool.
god must be atheistNovember 10, 2021 at 05:42#6188680 likes
Apropos, the Atheist God’s mockery of the first guest and the resultant vendetta: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/7163/stoicism-is-an-attractive-life-philosophy-but-can-it-be-taught
Praxis completely fails to see a proper criticism and he mistakes it for "mockery" and "vendetta". He is an unreasonable person who uses every opportunity to discredit me, to mock me and to insult me. HIs hatred for me is unfounded, very strong and unchangeable. Therefoe he will misinterpret everything I say and put it in a negative light. This utternace of his is yet an example of his attmepts to undermine my presence on this forum.
god must be atheistNovember 10, 2021 at 05:53#6188710 likes
Thank you. This is a very sensitive subject for me, the hatred that Praxis feels for me, so please forgive me that i did not recognize your humour. When you get bombarded by hate speech by a person, constantly and relentlessly, you get sensitive.
god must be atheistNovember 10, 2021 at 05:58#6188720 likes
praxis
4.2k
Oh yes indeed, the Atheist God’s true nature is revealed in his paranoid ramblings.
1. I am not rambling. Only an idiot can't see that I am making sensible points.
2. Paranoia is an unfounded fear. I don't have unfounded fears, especially not of you.
3. I don't fear you. I resent your unfounded hatred to me, which you portray to date in EVERY post you make in which you speak of me.
4. I decided to counter act your unfounded attacks on me, and to point out in every post you make against me that I see, how deeply wrong you are in your opinions against me.
"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Jesus remarked to some irritated Israelis who were getting ragged on a lot.
Oh yes indeed, the Atheist God’s true nature is revealed in his paranoid ramblings.
You haven't broken any rules afaik, so this is just a request but can you leave GMBA alone please because he seems to be taking all of this very seriously.
ArguingWAristotleTiffNovember 10, 2021 at 15:44#6189320 likes
Soooooo....
Packed up the Indians and took a jet plane to Austin! :100: The people here are so freaking friendly! We are apartment shopping and have 4 appointments each day. Wonder which my youngest Indian will choose on this next step on his life journey! Wishing him the best of love and laughter here in Texas!
Yippee :party: :heart: :heart: :heart:
I spelled it out for you what the similarity entails, so there is no confusion any more what I meant by and why I used the similarity of Praxis's behaviour to Hitler's.
A more apt and less indecent simile would be a kind of reverse Moby-Dick:
It was the Atheist God that dismasted me; the Atheist God that brought me to this dead stump I float on now. Aye, aye," he shouted with a terrific, loud, animal sob, like that of a heart-stricken moose; "Aye, aye! it was that accursed Atheist God that razeed me; made a poor pegging lubber of me for ever and a day!" Then tossing both fins, with measureless imprecations he shouted out: "Aye, aye! and I’ll chase him round Good Hope, and round the Horn, and round the Norway Maelstrom, and round perdition’s flames before I give him up!
Per Daniel Lieberman in The Molecule of More, the reason heaven is identified as a place of eternal bliss has to do with how dopamine affects out feelings about things that are far away, particularly in the upward direction.
Reply to Maw Sunset at 4:30 for me these days. I find that when it’s dark outside, I don’t feel pressure to do anything. Lying on the sofa reading a book seems natural.
It would be really great if this back and forth about the conflict between Praxis and GMBA would end. I have found it upsetting. It clearly got out of hand and it should stop. There's a rule. I guess it's T Clark's categorical imperative - When someone is down, stop kicking.
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering Frank; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned Frank! Thus, I give up the spear!
Dopamine is why the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
I saved up all my dopamine last winter and in the spring I sprayed it on a 5 x 5 foot patch of grass on the other side of the fence. Throughout the summer it was the least green grass in the entire city. You are obviously not qualified to hand out horticultural advice.
in addition, you may have hurt my feelings at some undetermined time in the past, for which you will be held fully accountable, once I figure out when you may have done it.
Reply to frank & @T Clark. This William Ernest Henley poet person (author of Invictus, aka invincible) was one sentimental Debbie downer.
We'll go no more a-roving by the light of the moon.
November glooms are barren beside the dusk of June.
The summer flowers are faded, the summer thoughts are sere.
We'll go no more a-roving, lest worse befall, my dear.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
Towards thee I roll, thou all-destroying but unconquering Frank; to the last I grapple with thee; from hell’s heart I stab at thee; for hate’s sake I spit my last breath at thee. Sink all coffins and all hearses to one common pool! and since neither can be mine, let me then tow to pieces, while still chasing thee, though tied to thee, thou damned Frank! Thus, I give up the spear!
It reminds me of a line that always stuck with me from the Two Ronnies, where one of the Ronnies says to the other: " I couldn't possibly fail to disagree with you less".
I moved this to the Shoutbox because I didn't want to clutter up our brilliant discussion in "What is Metaphysics? Yet Again."
I've never heard of the Two Ronnies. I took a look at a couple of sketches. Made me think of David Mitchell and Robert Webb. They've had a couple of shows on BBC. Here's one of my favorite sketches from "That Mitchell and Webb Situation."
I like that one in particular because two of my children manage farms. "That Mitchell and Webb Look" is their most recent sketch show. It's as good as any comedy show I've seen. Here's one of my favorite shows from TM&WL.
I'm reading about ordoliberalism and it's got me fascinated.
It's got some of the features of Marxism and leftism, like attention being paid to alienation, but there's no morality at all involved. When they talk about minimum wage, social security, the benefits of labor unions, etc., they're just talking about what needs to be done to avoid chaos from which socialists arise.
IOW, they aren't trying to protect people, they're trying to protect non-collectivist ideology.
The basic idea is that massification, or the city dwelling bottom of the pyramid, is vulnerable to collectivists like socialists because they have no social network and they're basically all exploited labor prostitutes.
So the state should intervene to protect them to make them immune to collectivists.
How could such an amoral approach work? Very well as it turns out. The real enemy of this type of liberalism isn't leftists, it's the libertarian side of liberalism.
So there really isn't much true leftism in the world, even in China, which has its own massification to throw bones to.
Why bother with philosophy when one is determined to be an ordinary redneck anyway.
One thing that has always fascinated me about philosophers and people who are into philosophy is how utterly ordinary these people tend to be in interactions with others. The same externalization, the same you-language, as if all their study of philosophy has left no trace in their mind.
Reply to frank "Ordoliberalism is the German variant of economic liberalism that emphasizes the need for the state to ensure that the free market produces results close to its theoretical potential. ... The term "ordoliberalism" (German: Ordoliberalismus) was coined in 1950 by Hero Moeller, and refers to the academic journal ORDO."
"Ordo" --no surprise-- is Latin for "order". Question: is the 'ordo' in ordoliberalism a noun (the order, or arrangement that exists) or is it a verb (to decree). Sounds lie more of a verb.
One thing that has always fascinated me about philosophers and people who are into philosophy is how utterly ordinary these people tend to be in interactions with others
Two reasons for this:
a) social apes learn how to interact with other social apes (for better or for worse) long before they learn about philosophy
b) compartmentalization hinders transfer of skill from one specialization to another. So, one can be a fastidious scholar in philosophy or biology and a slob elsewhere.
E. O Wilson, the famous biologist, described James Watson of DNA fame as "the most unpleasant person he had ever met" and "the Caligula of biology". Insight into molecular structure didn't make Watson a civilized person.
But if philosophy trained our interactions with other people, what would that look like?
One thing that has always fascinated me about philosophers and people who are into philosophy is how utterly ordinary these people tend to be in interactions with others. The same externalization, the same you-language, as if all their study of philosophy has left no trace in their mind.
Agree totally. I've often wondered about it. Another aspect of this is how often in ordinary life no decisions they make are based on any kind of philosophical reflection or principles. In work and life they just go and do reactive, banal shit based on greed, jealousy, ambition and anger like any other plonker.
One thing that has always fascinated me about philosophers and people who are into philosophy is how utterly ordinary these people tend to be in interactions with others
— baker
Two reasons for this:
a) social apes learn how to interact with other social apes (for better or for worse) long before they learn about philosophy
b) compartmentalization hinders transfer of skill from one specialization to another. So, one can be a fastidious scholar in philosophy or biology and a slob elsewhere.
E. O Wilson, the famous biologist, described James Watson of DNA fame as "the most unpleasant person he had ever met" and "the Caligula of biology". Insight into molecular structure didn't make Watson a civilized person.
Biology and philosophy are not comparable. If anything, one expects biologists and other scientists studying crude matter to be ... well, crude as persons.
The liberal arts are another matter.
But if philosophy trained our interactions with other people, what would that look like?
For one, thinking critically, not jumping to conclusions.
But on the other hand, it was only later in life that Schopenhauer distanced himself from his art of being right. Apparently when he first wrote it, he actually believe that was the way to go about discussions and debates. And if his early example is anything to go by, and philosophy, too, is all about winning, with any means, at any cost.
Reply to baker For at least 500,000 years this knee plan worked really well. Maybe longer. And other animals have problems with their knees too. Part of the problem is being healthy and active enough to wear out one's knees way before the grave. Bad planning. Carpe diem and memento genua fragilia.
Biology and philosophy are not comparable. If anything, one expects biologists and other scientists studying crude matter to be ... well, crude as persons.
The liberal arts are another matter.
Stop with the liberal arts chauvinism, already. I'm all for the liberal arts, (member of the National Council of English Majors) but the science people I know are anything but crude. Besides, matter is not crude. Your knee, for example.
Philosophy and accounting are perhaps not comparable, but is not science an elaboration of natural philosophy?
Agree totally. I've often wondered about it. Another aspect of this is how often in ordinary life no decisions they make are based on any kind of philosophical reflection or principles. In work and life they just go and do reactive, banal shit based on greed, jealousy, ambition and anger like any other plonker.
Back when I was going to college, there was a philosophy professor, who had, let's call that, "neglected hair" and usually wore a tattered old sweater. He also had a fancy Audi. Back then, this was as outrageous as it gets.
It made me wonder whether philosophy, like religion, is not intended to be taken at face value, is not intended to be taken seriously, but is, rather, some kind of elaborate sand to throw in the eyes of one's opponents.
Or that philosophical theories about "what really exists" and "how we know things" are actually post-hoc attempts to justify particular ideological stances that are held a priori.
Stop with the liberal arts chauvinism, already. I'm all for the liberal arts, (member of the National Council of English Majors) but the science people I know are anything but crude.
Is this so by design, or by accident?
Like I said, I don't have high expectations of scientists, that's all. That doesn't mean that I think they're crude, it just doesn't surprise me to find those that are.
Besides, matter is not crude. Your knee, for example.
Sure. But how does studying knees relate to classy behavior in those studying them?
Philosophy and accounting are perhaps not comparable, but is not science an elaboration of natural philosophy?
Sure. But how does studying knees relate to classy behavior in those studying them?
Back to my first response on this topic: people learn how to interact with other people before they study knees or beetles or Schopenhauer or Shakespeare. The upwardly mobile young person learns how to behave, to follow teacher's instructions, and to 'play nice' with others. Their good, cooperative, studious behavior is rewarded. They get better at it. Maybe 10% to 20% of students fit this pattern. They go on to college and (thanks to the models of successful professional parents) know how to get ahead in school and in work. Most philosophers and scientists come from this group of young people who learned how to behave properly.
There are a small number of people who didn't have promising beginnings who were bright enough to complete college and compete who may be much less polished, much rougher in their social presentation. These scientists or philosophers may seem relatively "crude". This pattern is close to my experience. It was by luck alone that I attended college, but I was never "upwardly mobile". Once I had the degree, I really didn't know what to do with it.
Philosophers and scientists are both under considerable obligation to behave well IF they expect to get ahead in their fields. That's just the way well-educated, professional society operates. If one doesn't behave accordingly, one will have much more difficulty remaining in a professional field, much less getting ahead in it.
But not using them in an effort to spare them isn't helping either.
Moderation in all things. "... The essential thought is found in the work of the Greek poet Hesiod (c.700 bc), ‘observe due measure; moderation is best in all things’, and of the Roman comic dramatist Plautus (c. 250–184 bc), ‘moderation in all things is the best policy.’"
Philosophers and scientists are both under considerable obligation to behave well IF they expect to get ahead in their fields.
Had you had kids, would you have followed your reasoning and invested primarily in their socialization rather than in their intellectual education?
I don't deny what you say here because it's clear that extroverted personalities with high social intelligence rise in management and have the ability to close sales, but at some point ineptitude, ignorance, and incompetence do seem to interfere with forward progress.
Had you had kids, would you have followed your reasoning and invested primarily in their socialization rather than in their intellectual education?
I have three children, a girl and two boys. Now a woman and two men. The girl was always self-motivated and achievement oriented. Good grades, AP courses, National Honor Society, got her degree. The boys... not so much. They didn't do their homework, got mettza mettza grades, weren't particulary interested in books, went to college but never finished.
Somewhere between the end of college and 25, both boys started reading, which was great for me, because it made it easier for me to get them gifts. We started talking about books, philosophy, politics. Both had well-developed and credible opinions on subjects that interested them. I came across some of their writing, I was to surprised to see that they both write well. They had never shown any interest in writing before.
Conclusion - one doesn't "invest in [one's children's] intellectual education." On the other hand, in my experience you don't invest in their socialization either. You just try to keep them alive, tie the up when they get out of control, and yell more than you should. All three of my children seem to have figured the rest out for themselves.
I understand her philosophy is quite controversial so lets stick to defining her objective claims and avoid critiquing it.
— OscarTheGrouch
FYI: There are no rules about obeying the wishes of the OP.
I would like some help from the moderators on this. Above is an exchange from the recently opened discussion by @OscarTheGrouch with a response by Wheatley. I checked the Guidelines, including "How to Write an OP." Although it never says it explicitly, it seems clear to me that responders to an OP have a responsibility to address the issue as the OP sets it up and not to go off on a tangent of their own. Reciprocally, I have always understood that the person who starts the discussion has the authority to enforce the OP. I certainly have always handled my own discussions that way.
Again, I'd like to see some input from the moderators.
Conclusion - one doesn't "invest in [one's children's] intellectual education." On the other hand, in my experience you don't invest in their socialization either. You just try to keep them alive, tie the up when they get out of control, and yell more than you should. All three of my children seem to have figured the rest out for themselves.
My question wasn't so much how much parenting matters (which I think you understate), but what traits are most important for success and ought be promoted.
Teachers, friends, parents form the putty. Don't underestimate what you provided that helped them find their way.
Teachers, friends, parents form the putty. Don't underestimate what you provided that helped them find their way.
There's a psychological term I like - Good enough parenting. To give children what they need, you don't need to be John and Olivia Walton, if you remember who they are. You just have to keep your children safe, help them learn to trust the world, pay some attention, and let them grow into who they always have been. You'd probably like my kids. They are smart, decent, hard-working, competent, and better than me. They get the credit for that, not me.
It wasn't so much a matter of whether or not your comment was respectful, although that's important to me. I'd still like to see what the moderators have to say.
Forgot to say - I appreciate your response. I went back to the moderators and told them the issue had been resolved, but that I'd still like to hear what they have to say.
it seems clear to me that responders to an OP have a responsibility to address the issue as the OP sets it up and not to go off on a tangent of their own
Part of the problem is being healthy and active enough to wear out one's knees way before the grave. Bad planning. Carpe diem and memento genua fragilia.
Knees are one thing. How about teeth? How many millions throughout history have died prematurely because of their bad and rotting teeth? If you think of all the design abnormalities in humans, all the chronic health conditions and diseases humans are prone to - if a god was the designer then really there should be a class action taken against this god for shoddy, negligent workmanship, endangering the lives of others.
Had you had kids, would you have followed your reasoning and invested primarily in their socialization rather than in their intellectual education?
Socialization is achieved informally but thoroughly. Decent, civilized people tend to socialize their children to be decent and civilized. Intellectual education is achieved more formally and less thoroughly. It takes a long time to achieve wide and deep knowledge.
Parenting is a residential charm school in which the teachers pay for the boarders. Were parents competing for customers, many would find no takers.
How many millions throughout history have died prematurely because of their bad and rotting teeth?
Hunter gatherers had pretty good teeth, pretty much all the way to the grave. Their secret? Very few sugars in their diet, other than what they obtained from berries or occasional fruits. How do we know that? Their skulls tend to be toothy. Eating meat and crude vegetable matter (no refined starch) was a healthy diet--it doesn't appeal to me, but I'm not a hunter gatherer.
Another secret they had was not to live too long. Had I died 5 years ago, I would have lived a reasonably long and full life and avoided complicated and gruesome dental procedures, cancer, and arthritis. Who knows what else I might avoid by throwing in the towel right after I post this? Worse arthritis, more cancer, the possible second run for the presidency by Donald Trump, etc., etc., etc.
what traits are most important for success and ought be promoted
For parents, it's being reasonably successful in life and socializing with other successful people. (And, of course, showing their children how its done.). Children learn what successful socializing looks like. I don't mean that they learn how to barbecue steaks for a neighborhood picnic. They learn how to network, interact, collect useful social information, make a good self-presentation, learn about opportunities, and so on.
Street urchins learn some of that too, but the content and context is more likely to lead to bad results for the urchin, rather than a plump retirement fund.
One of the things successful people learn early on is that being suave and projecting a reasonably convincing facsimile of intelligence helps one get one's foot in the door. After that, it's actually being intelligent and knowledgeable that get's one ahead.
See, your average brilliant but poorly socialized person, like moi, just isn't sufficiently suave. When in doubt, I invariably rub people the wrong way.
All that can be said is if you can't imagine yourself performing an action, especially a disciplinary or "violent" one, indefinitely and repeatedly for all eternity beyond all effectiveness and original purpose, it's just not something you want to do in the first place. But you know, kids. Some just never grow up.
Knees are one thing. How about teeth? How many millions throughout history have died prematurely because of their bad and rotting teeth? If you think of all the design abnormalities in humans, all the chronic health conditions and diseases humans are prone to - if a god was the designer then really there should be a class action taken against this god for shoddy, negligent workmanship, endangering the lives of others.
That's to teach humans their place and not to cling to things that ultimately aren't theirs.
My question wasn't so much how much parenting matters (which I think you understate), but what traits are most important for success and ought be promoted.
There are a small number of people who didn't have promising beginnings who were bright enough to complete college and compete who may be much less polished, much rougher in their social presentation. These scientists or philosophers may seem relatively "crude". This pattern is close to my experience. It was by luck alone that I attended college, but I was never "upwardly mobile". Once I had the degree, I really didn't know what to do with it.
Philosophers and scientists are both under considerable obligation to behave well IF they expect to get ahead in their fields. That's just the way well-educated, professional society operates. If one doesn't behave accordingly, one will have much more difficulty remaining in a professional field, much less getting ahead in it.
This only applies in the person's relationships with their superiors, but not with their equals and their inferiors.
The same philosopher or scientist or other professional behaves courteously in relationships with their superiors (or when they're looking), but has no qualms being mean and even violent to those below.
There's a psychological term I like - Good enough parenting. To give children what they need, you don't need to be John and Olivia Walton, if you remember who they are. You just have to keep your children safe, help them learn to trust the world, pay some attention, and let them grow into who they always have been. You'd probably like my kids. They are smart, decent, hard-working, competent, and better than me. They get the credit for that, not me.
I never watched the Waltons. They seemed like a boring group of folks out on a prairie or something. My guess is that they were good parents in the sense that they respected the autonomy of their kids, as you indicated you did, which is really what is missing in many middle class and upper middle class families. The working class and those in poverty have a different set of issues. What you see too often in my suburban world are parents who stand over their kids and make sure they get every advantage -- except for the advantage of learning how to use their own brain, which is most often superior to their parents.
They seemed like a boring group of folks out on a prairie or something.
They lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. It was a wonderful show. But, yeah, prairie, mountains, it's all the same to you big city sophistimicated folks.
They lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. It was a wonderful show. But, yeah, prairie, mountains, it's all the same to you big city sophistimicated folks.
I was thinking about Little House on the Prairie, another show I never watched.
BTW, this breaks my record for the most times I've written the word "prairie" in a single day. My old record of 1 is from 1972 when I wrote a short story centering around a prairie dog and a hedgehog, two animals I've also never actually seen.
My old record of 1 is from 1972 when I wrote a short story centering around a prairie dog and a hedgehog,
Prairie dogs are native to the American west while there are no native hedgehogs in the Americas. That leaves two possibilities 1) Either the hedgehog or the prairie dog were exchange students or, perhaps, illegal immigrants or 2) Your story lacked verisimilitude.
Do you remember when they used to put cane sugar instead of nasty corn syrup into soft drinks?
I was certainly around when they used sugar, but I've never done a taste test, so I'm not sure I could tell the difference. I keep saying that I'll buy some kosher Coke when it is commonly available at Passover and do a comparison.
I keep saying that I'll buy some kosher Coke when it is commonly available at Passover and do a comparison.
Damn you! You'll leave me with no kosher for passover coke with your childish experiments and I'll have to go without. You treat me as the Pharaoh did, reminding me of the bitterness of my enslavement all over again.
Reply to Wheatley A grammar question. If Julia Child and her husband were going to come to your home for dinner, would you say "The Childs are coming for dinner," or would you say, "The Children are coming for dinner"?
Damn you! You'll leave me with no kosher for passover coke with your childish experiments and I'll have to go without. You treat me as the Pharaoh did, reminding me of the bitterness of my enslavement all over again.
I can always sell you some on eBay. I know where to get them. :cool:
THAT is the word I was looking for when I used "facsimile". Thanks. Now I can relax. BTW, I watched some prairie dogs close up at Devil's Tower in Montana. @Hanover: Devil's Tower isn't a volcanic cone formed above the surrounding terrain. It's a volcanic plug from which the surrounding terrain eroded. That's why there is prairie surrounding the volcanic erection.
As @T Clark noted, there are no native hedge hogs hereabouts. That's because Americans use barbed wire instead of hedges to keep their fucking neighbors off their land. "Love your neighbor, but don't remove your fences."
How hedges spontaneously generate malformed hogs is a biblical-sized mystery. Barbed wire is known to spontaneously generate Republicans.
I had a love child with Mrs. Coepcke. We named the child Versillimme, as that was the pasta we ate from one another's belly as we wasted away the afternoon, young and in love.
Versillimme worked odd jobs, mostly as a recycler sorter, collecting the empty milk jugs, filling them with urine, and throwing them at funeral mourners. A true piece of shit I'd say. I now question my hands off parenting approach.
But Mrs. Coepcke, the delight of her loins more than made up for the curse of our offspring.
It's a volcanic plug from which the surrounding terrain eroded. That's why there is prairie surrounding the volcanic erection.
You know much about volcanic formation, and for sharing, I thank you. I have visited out West and seen many a formation, including a huge crater hole in the ground where a meteor slammed hard into the earth, just missing the adjacent giftshop.
I know little of volcanic plugs, but I assume them to be like those delightful metal plugs one puts in a wine bottle to preserve it until the next bout of depression strikes. Perhaps God has such a plug he caps a volcano with to keep his wrath at bay until the next abomination arises, then he releases it, joyfully watching his children dancing like the Scarecrow trying to extinguish their burning flames, laughing to himself "stop, drop, and roll dumbasses!"
Juliane Koepcke (born 10 October 1954), also known by her married name Juliane Diller, is a German Peruvian mammalogist.
If I were German, I think I'd want to specialize in the study of Peruvian mammaries as well. Alas, though, my ancestry is more Eastern European, and so my interests naturally lie in Guatemalan ovaries.
Reply to T Clark Mrs. Bernatz was my 11th and 12th grade English teacher. She was a good grammar teacher. She drilled us in sentence diagramming, among other things. Literature? Quite acceptable. I learned much later that she and her husband (also a coach) drank heavily.
Some of the lessons on punctuation didn't stick, apparently. Dr. Nelson (Eng. Lit 120) suggested I get acquainted with the semicolon. 20 odd years later, writing AIDS education material and being edited by a journalist, I was finally forced to make that semicolonic acquaintanceship.
Here is a sentence to keep in your literary larder:
"Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.”
@T Clark The high point of American Literature (11th grade) was watching a short film, An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge, and reading the story. At the time I thought it was amazing the Ambrose Bierce had basically written the script for an art form (film) that barely existed in 1890.
The film is five minutes long; well worth watching.
No, it was Jesus Christ school. I was expelled for using the Lords name in vain too often and that’s why I despise religion. Every time I got a bad grade I’d say “Jesus Christ!”
I'm presently working with a woman who puts at least two fucks into every sentence. I wish I could expel her.
Fuck, that fuck’n sucks.
Anyway, I just remembered the line in my Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge writing assignment where the teacher wrote “very good here”. Mind you this was many years ago and it was Jesus Christ school. It was something like:
As diamonds are valuable because they are rarer, so life becomes when it is near its end.
ChristofferNovember 16, 2021 at 23:36#6212820 likes
Does anyone know if there's a way to just filter away every theist subject so only threads that are not theistic or related to any "God" questions disappear? I can go into sub-sections of non-theistic topics, but I would like to just have the front page cleaned of any subject posted in theistic sub-sections.
One could ignore them, I suppose.
Picking at vegetables on the plate when the eyes are cast your way.
Maybe create a diversion to change the subject in the fashion of Jane Austin.
That is how a theist would deal with the problem.
It's not possible to ignore it because religion just gets bigger and bigger until you realize you're just a tiny hair on its left buttock and there's nothing
Problem is that it's like an infestation, it just keeps multiplying. There are so many copies of topics around religion or God or whatever that I can barely find any subjects worth discussing. If the quality of posts needs to be high and the bare minimum of a theistic argument is a really well-written logical argument that actually tries its best to actually be philosophical, then there's a shitload of them not even reaching the bare minimum, but they keep coming and it's like internet ads, pop-ups, spam etc. I would just like to have a filter option to filter out the religious nonsense by filtering out theism from the front page. I mean, you have to put the subject into a specific category when creating a new topic so it shouldn't be that hard to just create a filter to filter out everything related to theism and every theistic argument not properly marked as theism shouldn't be allowed anyway.
Problem is that it's like an infestation, it just keeps multiplying. There are so many copies of topics around religion or God or whatever that I can barely find any subjects worth discussing.
The same is true for free will, antinatalism, various baloney pseudo-science, metaphysics, and plenty of other half-assed philosophy issues. Meanwhile, I just checked. There is only one specifically theistic discussion on the front page out of 40 total discussions.
Noble DustNovember 17, 2021 at 03:20#6213400 likes
Anyone ever accidentally read the shoutbox in reverse?
In reverse as in starting with the most recent and going back to your first post on the forum? Or beginning with the last word of each post and reading to the first? Or phonetically reading in reverse beginning with the last letter of each post?
Reply to Christoffer As a low grade Lutheran / disavowed Methodist / wanna-be Catholic / could pass for Jewish / atheist, I don't like 99% of the theistic posts either. They are mostly just terrible stumbling around in the intellectual vicinity of a landfill.
In reverse as in starting with the most recent and going back to your first post on the forum? Or beginning with the last word of each post and reading to the first? Or phonetically reading in reverse beginning with the last letter of each post?
They are mostly just terrible stumbling around in the intellectual vicinity of a landfill.
That's true of a significant portion of the whole forum. Face it, the only good reasons for coming here are @Hanover's goats, @Shawn's pigs, my posts, and getting to feel all superior to everyone else.
Reply to jamalrobReply to Shawn Had we been breeding pigs for intelligence instead of bacon, by this time they'd be eating with us. But alas, no bacon in that case.
I really dislike Marvel superhero films - I find them inadequately imagined festivals of CGI clichés. But I am also troubled by their nascent Fascist, Leni Riefenstahl imagery, their cult of the body beautiful and violence as the only tool to solve problems. Should I care?
Noble DustNovember 17, 2021 at 21:26#6215920 likes
boar pig barrows gilts pork swine hog sow -- They are all 4 legged, snout faced, bristle haired, curly tailed mammals who are the source of excellent meat. .
Hi! I'm pretty new to philosophy and I thought this place would be a good place to start. I'm particularly interested in quantum physics but only really understand the basics. Would you guys(or girls) have any recommendations on where I might be able to ease my way into the subject?
Varoufakis speaks of this very well and does Ashoka Modi. Otherwise try looking at Varoufakis' lectures based on his Adults in the Room to hear some really shocking stuff said by the very top people in power in Europe.
Varoufakis speaks of this very well and does Ashoka Modi. Otherwise try looking at Varoufakis' lectures based on his Adults in the Room to hear some really shocking stuff said by the very top people in power in Europe.
Thanks, I will!
StreetlightNovember 18, 2021 at 03:53#6216900 likes
Damn - although this is a commentary on the state of mainstream miseducation more than anything. The EU from its inception has always been a neoliberal project through and through. Another good resource in addition to the ones Manuel mentioned is Wolfgang Streeck's Buying Time. Varoufakis' And the Weak Suffer What They Must? is also a good, less personal and involved account than his Adults in the Room, although Adults is really shocking, albeit more bloated.
I've been here for nearly two years and I only just discovered that the reason Christmas is celebrated here on January 7th is that January 7th is December 25th in the Julian calendar, which the Orthodox church still uses.
It should be noted, however, that most of the festivities centre around New Year. Christmas Day itself (January 7th) is just religious.
Yeah. Europe is held up as a bastion of leftism. Who knew the EU's particular federational style is straight from neoliberal theory?
It might be a sign of the moribundity of the British Left that they were unable to take Brexit in a left-wing direction. In the last century, much of the European left was very anti-EEC/EU, including the British Labour Party, and especially the more radical elements. All the old Communists and Trotskyists still hanging around in the eighties and nineties were against the EU, as I recall. In the UK, at least.
This is what made me supportive of Brexit: there was a chance that the British Left could strike a path out from under the dead hand of the EU, and put forward some radical policies. That was over-optimistic, maybe even stupid. In principle, Brexit wasn't necessarily a right-aligned movement, but maybe that's what it was always going to be. In other words, maybe Brexit could never have been taken in a left-wing direction.
As others have mentioned, Varoufakis is great on the EU. It's interesting that despite his justified hatred of the institution, he didn't think Brexit was a good idea, believing that reform from the inside was still possible.
But yeah, the idea that Europe under the EU is a "bastion of leftism" is quite new, and mistaken.
Reply to frank I wouldn't say so, but I don't really know. I haven't been able to work it out. The Communist Party is still pretty big, the second biggest party after United Russia, and they have elected politicians in many local dumas as well as the federal State Duma. But how much it's just a patriotic, conservative, statist kind of a party like it was back before the Soviet Union fell apart--which is probably not the kind of party to oppose Putin very strongly--and how much it is genuinely socialist, I have very little idea. Certainly its stated aims look pretty socialist.
[quote=wikipedia]The program of the Communist Party declared that the party is guided by Marxism–Leninism, based on the experience and achievements of domestic and world science and culture. According to the party, there comes a "confrontation between the New World Order and the Russian people with its thousand-year history, and with its qualities", "communality and great power, deep faith, undying altruism and decisive rejection of lures mercantile bourgeois liberal-democratic paradise".[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Russian_Federation#Ideology
If that's socialist, it's not the kind that appeals to me.
wikipedia:According to the party, there comes a "confrontation between the New World Order and the Russian people with its thousand-year history, and with its qualities", "communality and great power, deep faith, undying altruism and decisive rejection of lures mercantile bourgeois liberal-democratic paradise".
This is amnesia. The Communist party did its utmost to break from Russia's thousand year history, but what emerged, especially under Brezhnev, was the old Russian custom of using a dictator as a power broker among competing aristocrat-like entities. My hypothesis is that the Russian Communist Party is mostly nostalgia?
I think the mercantile-liberal-democrats are doing the same thing: just forgetting the mid-20th Century "liberal problematic," which was about how to come to terms with the Great Depression and WW2 (with fascism framed as a response to the failure of liberalism).
As if the 20th Century didn't happen. It was just a bad dream.
So I feel like I'm relearning everything about the political spectrum as I read about neoliberal theory. It's like: nothing is what it seems to be. Everyone is trying to relate themselves to the 19th Century instead of the 21st.
Not much good out there on the forum to discuss right now. To remedy that, I was thinking about starting a new thread "Who's the biggest jerk on the forum." Maybe a poll. Problem with that is everyone would have the same answer - [REDACTED].
So maybe we should just do free will or consciousness again. It's been almost a week.
Noble DustNovember 18, 2021 at 21:00#6218940 likes
Today I learned that a yellow bell pepper has 568% daily value of Vitamin C. I used half of one in my salad today, so I’m running at at least 284% currently, not including the kale and cherry tomatoes.
Reply to Christoffer Click on “Categories”, click on the category you want to remove, scroll to the bottom and click the eye symbol. It’ll cross out and be removed from your home page.
Can an American here tell me why the verdict for the Kyle Rittenhouse trial is taking so long?
You see, here in the US we have these things called "trials." They involve "juries" who make the final judgement about guilt. It's a quirk of our judicial system that the opinions of random guys from other countries who don't know anything about the case don't get taken into account.
ChangelingNovember 19, 2021 at 01:24#6219750 likes
Reply to T Clark I just read that deliberations can go on for a few weeks, so my horses need to be held.
Reply to The Opposite What we see on the news any given day may or may not be accurate or true. Whatever I say is, of course, true--like the word of god.
The Jury is trying to reach unanimous verdicts on 7 charges. It can take a jury quite some time to reach unanimity on 1 count, let alone 7.
IF the 12 jurors can not come to a unanimous verdict (resulting in a hung jury) the judge may declare a mistrial, or the prosecution can decide to reprosecute, prosecute on different charges, or drop the case (unlikely, I would guess).
Getting 12 people to unanimously agree on where to have lunch can be difficult; much more difficult for 12 people to reach unanimous agreements on multiple felony charges.
Reply to T Clark There's no way to win here. I hadn't read your sublime offering when I wrote my post. Had I been aware of your smart-assed response, I would have felt compelled to exceed your smart assory, and probably would have. Instead I supposed that @The Opposite was in earnest. Maybe he is actually a Crown Counsel, knows all about juries, and was belittling our ingenious legal system under cover of befuddlementationalism.
Were you on the jury, having the vast knowledge you have accumulated in your long life, would you vote to hang Kyle or set him free at last?
By the way, how well hung are the guys on this jury? There used to be a magazine called The Hung Jury. If you can't imagine, I can spell it out for you. As far as I now, it wasn't a gay publication.
Were you on the jury, having the vast knowledge you have accumulated in your long life, would you vote to hang Kyle or set him free at last?
There's another little tradition in American jurisprudence - members of the jury are supposed to be shown evidence before they make a judgement. I have not seen the evidence.
ChangelingNovember 19, 2021 at 02:35#6220050 likes
Reply to Bitter Crank
That reminds me of my embarrassment in school when I interpreted Shakespeare's, "Better well hung than ill wed" as a kind of Zen koan with bawdy undertones.
Noble DustNovember 19, 2021 at 15:50#6221270 likes
I don't think there are enough bullies to cover all of that.
unenlightenedNovember 19, 2021 at 19:32#6221740 likes
[quote=Oliver Cromwell]It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonoured by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not process? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lords temple into a den of thieves, by you’re immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go![/quote]
1653.
Corrupt democracy leads to dictatorship. History is full of painful lessons.
There are several conflicts within neoliberal theory that all revolve around the power of the state.
The first us about intervention to ease suffering in society (healthcare, environmental protection, labor laws, tuition support, etc). mid-20th Century theorizors assumed some intervention was necessary here to avoid the formation of political power among the disenfranchised. But this is a slippery slope. Once that kind of intervention is in place, it becomes impossible to back off it. It just progresses.
A second related conflict is about the independence of the state. I think in some ways the aristocracies of the 19th Century were ideal for liberalism because there was a strong, fairly monolithic, independent state to resist any whiff of collectivism.
Without a king, liberals have a problem. And this is how Hayek ends up supporting authoritarian liberalism, but not totalitarianism. What's the difference? Tune in next time.
unenlightenedNovember 20, 2021 at 15:23#6223550 likes
Without a king, liberals have a problem. And this is how Hayek ends up supporting authoritarian liberalism, but not totalitarianism.
Thus the patriarchy: a society organised around power inevitably runs on violence and fear of violence. And therefore it always has a problem knowing when to stop, how to police the police, and how to govern the government. If I were you, I wouldn't start from here.
: a society organised around power inevitably runs on violence and fear of violence
This would be true if we interpret power as violent oppression.
In a collective, people surrender their own identities and powers to the whole. What is this society organized around if not power? It's just that power is held by an imagined macro-identity which isn't anyone in particular, but exists as a portion of every citizen's personhood:. who are you? I'm this member of the Collective.
Bizarrely, this is what early ordo-liberals wanted the state to be. That's where I got the word "macro-identity.". :yikes:
And therefore it always has a problem knowing when to stop, how to police the police, and how to govern the government.
Per Hayek in an interview in Chile, a liberal dictatorship is preferred to democratic liberalism because a dictatorship can self limit. A democracy can't.
It was an incredibly weak case for the state. He fired after being fired upon, again after someone hit him to the ground and was taking his gun, again when someone was kicking him in the head on the ground, and again when another aimed a loaded pistol at his head.
Two who who were shot were mentally ill, one homeless.
Is to wise to walk into a an angry mob as a counter protestor with a loaded assault rifle strapped across your back? Obviously not, but not criminal.
I wish people could realize that this result is just AND there are problems in the criminal justice system that need repair. It's not like this result proves that our system isn't in need of repair or that it proves it's failed.
Reply to Hanover All good points. When people go overboard about one bad thing happening, more bad things happen.
18 months after the riots in Minneapolis, there are still signs of the damage done. The apartment building being built at the time -- and burnt down in a huge arson-fire has been rebuilt and is about to open, and the Target and grocery chains have repaired and reopened. There is an empty block across from the torched police station that is growing weeds; still no word on when our burnt-out post office will be replaced. Quite a few of the small minority shops are probably gone for good.
I bet Kenosha has some very-much still-visible damage. And lots of other cities too.
It can take a long time for cities to recover from a large riot--decades, not years. And it isn't just property repair. People have difficulty repairing their lives, too.
If you drive along some streets on the south side of Chicago, there are long stretches of empty lots, buildings with bricked over windows, metal barriers on doors, and the like--a very long aftermath to a few days of rioting, and a long tail of poverty.
It was an incredibly weak case for the state. He fired after being fired upon, again after someone hit him to the ground and was taking his gun, again when someone was kicking him in the head on the ground, and again when another aimed a loaded pistol at his head.
Rittenhouse seems like a really creepy guy. I keep telling people we aren't supposed to put people in prison for being creepy.
Reply to T Clark I really dislike the adjective "creepy". It is extremely vague, but implies both a pathology and a threat which, if real, can and should be identified clearly. . "There was a really creepy guy in Target" she said. "I told a security guard and he hustled the man out."
So many unknowns: Was the woman paranoid? Was she a misandrist? Was the man doing anything unusual? Was he dressed oddly (wearing socks, sandals and an ugly suit)? Was he very big? was he muttering to himself? Was he staring at the woman? (Maybe there was something really 'creepy' about her appearance?). We don't know, and can't tell from the "creepy" adjective.
What is "creepy" about Rittenhouse? (Hey, I'm not a Rittenhouse fan; his behavior (and age) was immature; he displayed poor judgement in traveling to Kenosha with an intent to involve himself in a game of uproar. Bringing an assault rifle to a riot was guaranteed to be provocative and was high risk. He displayed a fair degree of stupidity in his actions. Immature and stupid people are least likely to estimate risk accurately, of course.).
Just guessing, but Rittenhouse was probably influenced by ample cultural cues to which millions of people have ready access. Millions of people are driving/walking around with guns, legal or not, openly or not. The sales of guns and rifles is brisk.
Reply to Bitter Crank I agree that "creepy" is vague, but it is a helpful adjective. Consider the following sentence and substitute the following adjectives in:
The _________ German waved his penis in circles at Mother Superior.
It's one of my favorite words. If I call someone an asshole, maybe they think I just can't handle their blunt talk. When I call someone creepy, there's no way around it. No way to spin it into something good. It's true, it is vague, although in context it doesn't matter. No matter what "creepy" means, it's not a good enough reason to put someone in jail.
Reply to Hanover Highly Instructive, Hanover. The verklempt Mother Superior shot the creepy penis right off the genitally gesticulating German. She had been known to jump the gun. "Happiness is a warm magnum." she said, tucking it under her omnivorous habit.
Reply to T Clark In just a nanosecond of CPU time I was able to generate a list of words with more descriptive power than "creepy", which is fine when you are describing creatures that creep and/or crawl. But for the creature who is the apex of folly, many more words are available.
Coincidentally I’m reading a book that talks about creepiness. In one experiment 95.3% of the participants thought men were more likely to be creepy than women. The top 10 behavior patterns (out of 44) that are most likely characteristics of a creepy person.
1. Standing too close
2. Having greasy hair
3. Having a peculiar smile
4. Having bulging eyes
5. Having long fingers
6. Having unkempt hair
7. Very pale skin
8. Having bags under their eyes
9. Being dressed oddly
10. Frequently licking their lips
The creepiest professions were clown, taxidermist, sex-shop owner, and funeral director. The least creepiest profession was meteorologist.
1. Standing too close
2. Having greasy hair
3. Having a peculiar smile
4. Having bulging eyes
5. Having long fingers
6. Having unkempt hair
7. Very pale skin
8. Having bags under their eyes
9. Being dressed oddly
10. Frequently licking their lips
And:
Staring at women's bodies
Behaving in an overfamiliar manner
Making unwanted advances.
Making inappropriate comments
Taking semi-automatic weapons and behaving provocatively at protests
][quote="Pinprick;622537"]
1. Standing too close - in Minnesota, "too close" is closer than 3 feet
4. Having bulging eyes - probably has thyroid disease
5. Having long fingers - the better to grab you with, my dear...
6. Having unkempt hair - [i]worse than unkempt hair is verklempt or distraught hair[/I]
7. Very pale skin -just pale Scandinavians
8. Having bags under their eyes - for Christ's sake, they're just TIRED
9. Being dressed oddly - [i]Want to see odd clothing? Take a look at $$$ haute couture shows[/I]
10. Frequently licking their lips. Well, you are so appetizing...[/quote]
Staring at women's bodies
Behaving in an overfamiliar manner
Making unwanted advances.
Making inappropriate comments
Taking semi-automatic weapons and behaving provocatively at protests
I never stare at women's bodies.
What I find creepy is people who resolutely refuse to make wanted advances. #(@#*@#@# THEM!
Some of us organize our lives around making inappropriate comments.
Yes, waving guns around in front of other people who are waving their guns around and who don't like you, is, shall we say, ill-advised.
I like that kind of restaurant experience, because the chef ought to know best, but more to the point, I'm lazy to peruse menus and I eat almost anything.
Noble DustNovember 21, 2021 at 07:22#6225830 likes
Essentially, yeah. We went to Sushi by M, which is an omokase spot that's supposed to be a little more approachable and affordable, which it was. You choose one of two menus and that's it. Super simple. Some of the most saline, refreshing food I've had. Also essentially my first "post-pandemic" high-end meal, so that helped. I'm still thinking about it.
Noble DustNovember 21, 2021 at 07:26#6225840 likes
If I want to remember a good meal, I find it's necessary to keep doing this, to go over it in my mind and list the dishes I had out loud to someone, several times.
Otherwise, it's only the bad meals I remember. I think this is mainly because bad meals are somehow more entertaining and give you more to talk about, like going to see a bad movie. This must be why bad reviews are more fun.
Noble DustNovember 21, 2021 at 07:37#6225900 likes
The thing about omokase is that we literally ate 18 different pieces of sushi, so as much as I'm trying to remember everything, it all blurs together. I was smart though, and took a pic of the menu. One of the highlights was the 2nd to last piece: A5 Waygu Beef w/Uni and Fois Gras :rofl:
Reply to Noble Dust I reached middle age without having had any caviar, and then I married a Russian. I don't think I've had wagyu. I had sea urchin in Spain a few times. I don't know if that's different from uni.
Noble DustNovember 21, 2021 at 08:18#6226020 likes
Per Hayek, a collective has structures which end up being taken over by any subgroup that has the ambition and means, so collectives inevitably become totalitarian (as defined as the loss of individual liberty).
unenlightenedNovember 21, 2021 at 13:50#6226390 likes
Taking semi-automatic weapons and behaving provocatively at protests
6. Behaving provo-actively.
7.621 Undefoscilating para-Jewish activities.
8. Brandishing a tub of Trepodense(TM) brilight applicator that you proudly smear on your shingles.
Reply to Caldwell Made chocolate pancakes, thick cut bacon, fresh eggs from the coop with Swiss cheese, all with real maple syrup and then fought off the pesky cat who does live her some bacon.
Now gonna pour me a stout glass of Tennesee whisky so Jamalrob won't have to drink alone.
Made chocolate pancakes, thick cut bacon, fresh eggs from the coop with Swiss cheese, all with real maple syrup and then fought off the pesky cat who does live her some bacon.
Very robust breakfast! How are the chickens in the coop?
Otherwise, it's only the bad meals I remember. I think this is mainly because bad meals are somehow more entertaining and give you more to talk about, like going to see a bad movie. This must be why bad reviews are more fun.
As Tolstoy wrote "All happy meals are alike; each unhappy meal is unhappy in its own way.” I hadn't realized that McDonald's was around in his day.
I've got chicken in the crock pot for dinner. I bought 50 pounds of legs and thighs for 98 cents per pound online. I got some sort of red lime tasting powder seasoning i sprinkle on it and convince myself it's authentic South American cuisine. My wife says it tastes better than when I just pour a bottle of Kroger BBQ sauce in there. Says it tastes "less mushy." Rave review.
Comments (61561)
I would just turn it into a competition and injure myself.
You will "feel the burn" if done vigorously, either fast or slow. Slow is more difficult.
Makes you wonder what other freaky surprises old age has in store.
You could go outside and run, I suppose, even in the Moscow winter. I used to run in the winter, even in very cold temps; I liked it. But in Moscow, Putin's henchmen might view you the same way a hunting dog views a running rabbit: Game.
The resale value of indoor exercise bikes is very low -- lots of one-time owners gave up on them, and they weren't that useful as clothes racks.
Thanks for disambiguating fixed gear and single gear bikes.
Pedal on!
Oh, you know -- frailty, disease, failing senses, incontinence, senility, and with any luck death, sooner rather than later if everything is going haywire. Some people do make it to 100+ with their faculties intact and bodies more or less operating. If one is 100+ and also happy, that's great.
:roll:
Somebody needs to take you in hand, dear boy.
Talking about that - the palm of your right hand - a spot of bother there too ?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/601553
Looks a bit red...friction burn ?
Pilates improves your sex life.
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/pilates-benefits#benefits
I would advise a few 1:1 sessions to ensure optimum position and right muscles switched on.
***
Quoting jamalrob
OK, for me, that sounds like an accident waiting to happen.
Yeah, I've gone on a bit about Pilates but it has helped me in the last couple of months.
I could bore a stone to tears. But I would do it with greater lung capacity, better breathing, more awareness of body tension/posture and I could lift a heavier stone by engaging the core muscles.
Needed 1:1 supervision but after you get the drift...
As for sweet dreams. That didn't happen. Nightmare. Lancing. :vomit:
I very much dislike running and my knees are not up to it anyway. Sometimes in winter I go for a long brisk walk, puffing down the icy avenues like Trotsky's war train on the way to the front.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Good point, thanks.
Quoting Bitter Crank
I have a couple of weeks before the snows come.
Quoting Amity
Sorry.
Yeah. So now I've got to take an LFT test to make sure I didn't catch anything :grimace:
Self-testing - no lancing involved just a swab-stick around the throat and nostril.
Worth it so that I can visit my sister :mask:
Both of us will soon have our 3rd covid vaccination - the booster - and the flu one.
No wonder I'm having nightmares...
Take care in Moscow. Quoting jamalrob
:sparkle:
Don't fret. It'll all work out in the end.
Yeah.
So far, so good.
LFT is Negative. Visit can go ahead. Urah ! :cool:
And if things aren't working out, then you know it must not be the end.
The thing about Pilates, yoga, and some other workouts - about 95% of the people in class are women. I mean, come on. Who wants to hang around with men?
I would occasionally do Zumba classes before the pandemic and those are usually around 99% women. Often fine specimens too, I might add.
That hasn't been a problem for me. I think they may be intimidated.
https://birdcast.info/migration-tools/live-migration-maps/
Birds of a feather
Flocking together
To avoid stormy weather
Led to birding displeasure.
Muscadine grapes are native to North America. They have tough, sour skins, and a pulpy inside that tastes exactly like muscadine wine.
I could have made a penis joke here, but I've matured some since going through all this and that's just not who I am anymore.
They grew wild where I grew up. We had crabapple trees too. Crabapples are good for throwing at Tommy.
Drooling might become a problem.
I'm going to a property auction tomorrow, just to see how it's done. I want to buy an abandoned junkyard.
That's cool. I searched for a European equivalent and found this: https://eurobirdportal.org/
Unfortunately it doesn't cover Russia. Either that or birds don't cross the Russian border.
I think the birds still have a boycott because of that guy in Belarus. Maybe they don't like Putin either.
Speaking of Putin, if you don't mind if I pry. What is your citizenship? How is it living on a day to day basis in Russia? Do you feel safe? Can you move around anywhere you like? How does that compare to a normal Russian? Again, if it's none of my business, just ignore the question.
Your crap poem meant
A birders lament
The hawkies all went
Wasted time spent.
Or we could try haiku:
Waiting on the hill
For majestic raptors flight
Fuck you, asshole hawks
I don't mind at all. Bear in mind that the following contains generalizations.
Quoting T Clark
British only, but I now have temporary residency in Russia, which lasts for five years. I might go for citizenship later (once I learn the language, basically).
Quoting T Clark
Daily life is good in Moscow, and more interesting and diverse than I've experienced before because I've never lived in a megacity. Moscow feels very safe, safer and cleaner than any other European city I've been to. Everywhere else I've been in Russia is similar, though things quickly get worse in other ways as you move further from the big cities, especially infrastructure. But I've never had any trouble. I was attacked for being a foreigner in Spain a few times, but that hasn't happened here.
I live about 45 minutes cycle ride from the Kremlin, so I'm not on the outskirts, but I've been all over the city and the only dodgy part I've found was the area that has a cluster of 4 big railway terminals. Just like any city, the railway stations are not great places to hang out. But I did stay in an apartment there for 2 weeks and the worst that happened was that I was awoken repeatedly at around 5 AM by drunkards singing songs from Soviet movies.
I can do what I like. There's a sense of freedom here that I don't get in Western Europe (sounds like a kind of romanticism but there's more to it than that). In a nutshell, if you don't cause trouble for the government and don't commit any crimes, you can do what the hell you like here and nobody will bother you. Many people disregard the rules as far as possible and mostly don't get into trouble. That can be unnerving, like in the provinces when taxi drivers are offended if you try to fasten your seat belt--but it's cool.
When you ask if I can move around, I guess you mean within the country? Yes, it's no problem. I need to carry my passport with residency stamp wherever I go, just in case, but there's no trouble. If you mean within the city, the only problem is the horrendous traffic, but I haven't been molested by any police, security forces, mafia, or other troublesome characters.
Quoting T Clark
It's just more inconvenient for me because of the language barrier.
It's not like living in a totalitarian state, if that's what you're getting at. :grin:
Not really, well maybe a little. We hear so much about Putin, oligarchs, corruption, repression of dissent. I was just looking for some perspective. Thanks.
Would that require giving up your British citizenship? That's not concerning in some way? I grew up in the cold war, so my opinions are affected by that, but you have the same trust in that government as you do with the British government?
I'd never give up my British citizenship. I don't think I'd have to, but I'm not sure. I keep meaning to check that.
Yes, that. Go along, get along.
Go along ... to the opposition rallies? No way.
Of course, none of what I say should be taken as approval of American politics. It's a bit fucked up.
As the Russian media tell us every day.
As a foreign traveller, you just revel in that diversity. You don't have enough of a hold on things to take a stand, politically. I'm a polite and occasionally critical observer.
Looks like it's ok with the Russians that you be a dual citizen:
https://www.loc.gov/item/global-legal-monitor/2020-05-01/russia-new-law-eliminates-requirement-to-renounce-foreign-citizenship/
Looks like it's ok with the British to be a dual citizen:
https://www.gov.uk/dual-citizenship
Might want to double check before you make the plunge, but it looks like from a brief Google check you're good to go.
Likely the result of a damaged internal migratory compass.
I know several Brits here, but there are many more Americans. Mostly men coming here to be with their Russian wives and girlfriends, like me.
And with that single sentence, it all suddenly makes sense.
How did you meet?
:blush:
So, you were recruited by a Russian agent.
Boom.
It's possible. She did have a short relationship with a spy many years before we met. Whenever I bring it up she says "I don't want to talk about it." :chin:
The lengths people will go to wrestle control of TPF.
About losing a family - stoicism - grief and depression - covid - coping - professional help - own epiphany. The dawning.
Quoting Guardian - My brother, mother and father all died before I was 30. I didn’t cope well at first, but then I had an epiphany
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/02/losing-family-tsunami-grief
Wait a minute, I've heard this story before.
Translation
Is your avatar a sperm cell?
The opening bid was $25,000 and it sold for $45,000. It appeared to me that some social dominance may have been a factor, although maybe I'm projecting.
I can see how auctions like that would be great during a housing bubble collapse. Maybe we'll get another one. :pray:
Before you buy any property like that, especially a commercial or industrial one, make sure you won't be liable for any environmental impacts to the property. The way many environmental laws are set up, if you buy a property, you take on full responsibility unless you have followed very specific legal and regulatory procedures.
No. Might want to schedule an eye exam.
You probably should because your avatar looks like a sperm.
Yep. I fell in love with this former car mechanic shop. I need to find out if it has a buried waste tank or something.
Talk to your bank. They can tell you the kind of documentation you need to protect yourself.
Ok, thanks. Have you bought any foreclosed properties by any chance?
Jeese. I just googled car mechanic hazardous waste. They're the largest producers of toxic waste among small businesses and the land around the shop is likely thoroughly contaminated. I'm not bidding on that.
No, but I practiced as an environmental engineer cleaning up contaminated sites for 30 years. Buying a site that is contaminated or may be contaminated is not something you do without a clear understanding of your liabilities. Most of my clients were caught in that trap, sometimes on purpose - they decided that the costs of cleanup were worth it to get a valuable piece of property. That's called "brownfields" - cleaning up and reusing a contaminated property.
Wow. How much does it cost to clean up a site like that? Do they have to take the dirt away?
It varies. There's no way to tell without doing your homework. Even then, there are likely to be surprises. On the low end, the costs might only be for doing a due diligence evaluation. That can cost a couple of thousand dollars. Depending on who is selling the property, that might already be done. If it's being sold by a bank, there's a good chance it has been. They're called Phase 1 Environmental Site Assessments (ESAs).
This property is sold as-is by the county for failure to pay property taxes. Bidders aren't allowed on the property.
The county wouldn't have the money to do that kind of assessment, I don't think. It would be on the buyer.
What attracted me to it is that there's an 11 acre land-locked plot behind it that has a creek. I would hand that over to the nature conservancy people, but I bet that creek is being contaminated by the mechanic shop. :grimace:
First off, the acres behind the shop would be a great place for the shop owners to dump their waste oil. I used to work in a wood shop next to a railroad track. We used to dump our used solvents and finishes on the tracks. Other people could also dump stuff there. I've been on properties where unknown people dumped drums of chemical waste behind the facility without the owner knowing or caring.
You should probably talk to a lawyer before buying anything like that. Do you know anyone who has bought these types of properties before? If so, ask them how they handled it. As I said, you could also talk to a banker. Or maybe someone from the nature conservancy. See what they would require to give you a loan or accept the property as a gift.
One thing we always did was to look at the property on Google Earth and Bing to see what we can see before we visited. That's not enough to protect you, but at least it's a first step. Look for signs of previous development. Stained soil or concrete. Dead or discolored vegetation. Former structures or holes, basements. Waste piles, drums. Vehicle tracks. Is it fenced?
There are typically publicly accessible web pages from the federal, state, and local or county environmental agencies. Sometimes the fire department, which usually is responsible for underground storage tanks. See if the site is listed. Tax assessors databases are also often available on-line. They can tell you the ownership history and maybe past site usage.
Pain in the ass? You betcha.
Yep. I'm glad I talked to you.
Why?! Do you have to pay for toxic waste disposal? If so, it seems to be a misguided incentive to setup.
Please send me your address so I'll know where to send the bill.
[hide="Reveal"]Yes, I'm joking.[/hide]
The relevant laws were established for large scale chemical manufacturers, refineries, and other industries that generate a lot of chemical waste. Thousands of gallons. Tens of thousands. Disposing of that waste is a big part of the cost of doing business. Do you want the government to pay?
The system is clunky for small-time waste generators. Also, the laws just got passed in the 1970s and 1980s. Companies of all sizes have just been dumping their waste out back, trucking it to unlined and unlicensed landfills, or discharging it directly into rivers since the beginning of the industrial revolution. Small businesses wouldn't dispose of waste properly even if it were free. It's a pain in the ass.
The bigger problem are poltergeists. What happens is they build over an old cemetery and the dead folks get pissed and they fuck with the whole family and they start coming through the television. I saw a movie about it. It was a real pain in the ass for them. Makes a little motor oil on the lawn look like child's play.
1389 Global Gift Blvd, North Pole.
Quoting Hanover
Lawyers are so helpful.
• Huge hack reveals embarrassing details of who’s behind Proud Boys and other far-right websites (The Washington Post; Sep 21, 2021)
• Most people affected by Epik breach really won't want their web activity published online (TechRadar; Sep 27, 2021)
• Epik hack reveals prominent, Trump-supporting websites under subpoena investigation (The Daily Dot; Sep 27, 2021)
• What the hack of Epik reveals about the world of far-right extremism (NPR; Oct 1, 2021)
• 2021 Epik data breach (Wikipedia)
You should listen to @Hanover. His firm specializes in imaginary legal issues.
We liberals and other lefties can gloat if we want, but what Anonymous did to Epik, China and Russia are doing to our power utilities and other infrastructure.
We do it to them as well.
Yes, we do. I wasn't finding fault with Russia or China. I was pointing out that hacks to computer systems don't just happen to people we don't like.
Prairie Home Companion was a wonderful thing that comes from where so many good things do - one talented and prickly person with determinism and a vision.
And no, it is not ok to put ketchup, catsup, ketsup, katchup, on raw oysters. At least not without horseradish.
Does that mean we can't celebrate when they do?
Knock yourself out.
Is this like a permanent happy pill? :brow:
Your'e right on, Crank. Google Translate makes a mess of even the shortest Latin phrase. It seems unable to handle the inflection of words.
Does "DeepL" translate other languages, as well? I find myself wondering how well it handles synthetic languages, especially the ancient tongues, Latin and Ancient Greek.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang/are-we-approaching-quantum-gravity-all-wrong/
Hope you are well. If so, then please don't read this; it's upsetting:
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/oct/05/pigs-culled-amid-uk-shortage-abattoir-workers
Quoting Guardian - pigs culled
:sad: :angry: :fear:
We are not in a good place right now...
Indeed, some might say we are well and truly fucked.
Brexit ideology. UK Rules. Hah. Now sovereign. Hah. Tories be damned to hell :rage:
Quoting Guardian - Politics Live
Just let the fucking pigs live instead of a mass culling.
EDIT: I've never seen such a strange profit motive scenario.
After taking care of pigs for a wet weekend I came to one solid conclusion. My Mother, in all her years on this Earth has never, EVER seen a real pig pen and been able to stay with straight face that my childhood bedroom was a pig pen.
I would like an apology from her please :pray:
Cotton Candy grapes are another production of California's The Grapery. If your palate is clear, the first one does taste like cotton candy, but after that, if you keep eating them, they just taste like grapes until you clear your palate again.
They're super sweet.
Yeah, @frank has a thing about weird grapes.
I laughed so hard at this Hollish guy.
Well, if rejecting "mainstream media" means turning to garbage, then it's neither smart nor doing the right thing, and that has been seen, fertile grounds for bullshit, dis/mal/misinformation.
Fun fact: Rodin’s “The Thinker” originally had the man sitting on a toilet. The original title? “The Stinker.”
Jeez, a bit like why throw the baby out with the bathwater when you can just blow up the whole bathroom.
As someone whose job it is to deal with and be intimately acquainted in distress, tragedy, and similar situations, you learn to appreciate your defenses and integrity being tested, even under grueling and unthinkable parameters. After all, if it wasn't so and so, it'd just be someone else. Maybe not now, maybe not for a while, but there's always someone.
[hide="Reveal"]Most intelligent - T Clark. Duh.
Funniest - T Clark. Duh.
Most obsessed with pigs - @Shawn.
Most obsessed with goats - @Hanover[/hide]
That's hardly the tip of what they're up to. They're always up to something... they are.
You should get a pig. I mean, why not?
Hi Wosret. Sorry, I'm confused. What did I say again?
I'm not sure...
And hello.
Hello. :) :flower:
• Half of evangelicals support Israel because they believe it is important for fulfilling end-times prophecy (Mar 29, 2019)
• Millions of Evangelical Christians Want to Start World War III … to Speed Up the Second Coming (Feb 18, 2012)
Here's hoping for no self-fulfilling prophecy.
This sentence is made of lead (and a sentence of lead gives a reader an entirely different sensation from one made of magnesium). This sentence is made of yak wool. This sentence is made of sunlight and plums. This sentence is made of ice. This sentence is made from the blood of the poet. This sentence was made in Japan. This sentence glows in the dark. This sentence was born with a caul. This sentence has a crush on Norman Mailer. This sentence is a wino and doesn't care who knows it. Like many italic sentences, this one has Mafia connections. This sentence is a double Cancer with Pisces rising. This sentence lost its mind searching for the perfect paragraph. This sentence refuses to be diagramed. This sentence ran off with an adverb clause. This sentence is 100 percent organic: it will not retain a facsimile of freshness like those sentences of Homer, Shakespeare, Goethe et al., which are loaded with preservatives. This sentence leaks. This sentence doesn't look Jewish . . . This sentence has accepted Jesus Christ as its personal savior. This sentence once spit in a book reviewer's eye. This sentence can do the funky chicken. This sentence has seen too much and forgotten too little. This sentence is called “Speedoo” but its real name is Mr. Earl. This sentence may be pregnant, it missed its period. This sentence suffered a split infinitive—and survived. If this sentence had been a snake you'd have bitten it. This sentence went to jail with Clifford Irving. This sentence went to Woodstock. And this little sentence went wee wee wee all the way home. This sentence is proud to be a part of the team here at Even Cowgirls Get the Blues. This sentence is rather confounded by the whole damn thing.
What's going on?
Why?
That means you must be standing firm.
Crossword parse me in shell-yellow, costly abbreviations of a sniffle that sprung to mind a letter in the mix.
Philosophy got me thinking about goats recently. Before COVID days I was speeding in my car through the incipient outback on my way to Broken Hill, Australia. Not a soul, not another vehicle in sight. Just a long stretch of endless road which looked like a nasty scar across the flat, scrubby landscape of red dirt.
No one anywhere; but there were many ghastly dark shapes positioned awkwardly along the highway which was absolutely littered with the broken bodies of dead kangaroos in any number of perverse positions of agonised death. There was a shattered roo body every few yards. But not a single goat carcass to be seen.
Goats? The reason this is interesting is that the roadsides were infested with wild goats, happily munching on jagged outback shrubbery. They seemed to be winking at me as I powered past them doing 130. What did they know? What unseen force kept them out of harms way?
Seems to me the poor old roos, our majestic kangas, have not evolved yet to understand and manage road traffic down under. They die by the multitude on Australian inland asphalt every night from sunset to dawn.
The goats near Broken Hill by contrast endure and even prosper. They look more a part of the landscape than the bloody roo bodies which reminds us of the internal combustion engine's other deplorable legacies. These later interlopers with horns are making the most of our beleaguered land.
What is the philosophical lesson here? On the highway of life, try to be a goat, not a kangaroo. I'll leave it with you to work out what this means.
In the post you quoted, I said that my preliminary vote for who is most obsessed with goats would go to @Hanover. It's good to see he has some competition.
I'm not sure this is relevant, but it is my understanding that when placentals compete with marsupials, the placentals usually win. I read that the original mammal inhabitants of South America were marsupials. When a land bridge between South and North America opened, placentals moved south and killed off most of the marsupials. Now the only marsupials in the western hemisphere are opossums. Opossi?
As a draft horse in a snowstorm, iced over hooves, whiskers each have their own icicle and there is no end in sight. Predictions of heavy, wet snowfall is not encouraging to me but head down, heavy with exhaustion, I put one in front of the other and trudge on. :shade:
I'm in need of a defeated emoticon.
I'm so sorry.
:cry:
Me too....me too :broken:
You are very kind with your wisdom. Thank you :flower:
Where I live, running into white tailed deer is a problem, but since doing so will inevitably total your car and risk your life, we try to slow down where they're likely to jump out of the woods.
Are Kangaroos small? Or are your cars really big? Why don't you have that problem?
A kangaroo can reach heights from anywhere between 3- 7 feet (1 to 2 meters) and can weigh between 40 and 200 lbs (18-100kg). I don't live in a kangaroo area - I live in a city with 5 million people.
In the outback kangas are on the road at night. I only drove after 8am. It's mainly larger vehicles that do the hitting - trucks and such.
I see. Maybe they could use an ultrasonic device on the trucks to repel the kangaroos. It works for deer.
Do lots of 'kangas' die on Australia's railroads?
Death wishes aside, I have heard that kangaroos are unusually stupid animals. Deer are smart enough to make themselves scarce during hunting season, but otherwise aren't the very model of ingenuity.
Goats. Goats have a reputation for being relatively brainy among members of the family Bovidae (cud chewing cloven-hoofed ruminants).
Squirrels. Now THERE is one smart creature. They regularly end up as road kill, but not for lack of computational facilities. They are good at avoiding vehicles; because there are so many of the nutty little fuckers, Chance decreed a certain number of squashed squirrels. At least when they are run over they dry out fairly quickly--less odor. Much better than dying on the sidewalk and swelling up in the sun and smelling like fermented rat.
Who cares?
So true.
:cry:
On the other hand, Randy Newman wrote "We'll save Australia. Wouldn't want to hurt no kangaroos."
I'm not a geezer. I'm a cantankerous, old, asshole. BC can speak for himself.
Southlake school leader tells teachers to balance Holocaust books with 'opposing' views (Oct 14, 2021)
Quoting Don McLeroy (2015)
Didn't someone predict this...?
Problem is, it is easy to say concerning “hard” sciences like say math and physics, that the mathematicians and physicists should have the say as to what is taught; but when it comes to the social issues, even the medical ones (as we see from Covid and vaccines), because even medicine is very closely tied in with social issues, there tends to be a lot of disagreement.
When I was a boy I learned that Lincoln was a great president, that he saved the Union and freed the slaves; when I was a freshman at North Carolina, I learned that he was a racist, because, though he freed the slaves, he didn’t think they could live as equal citizens: free, but not equal.
I summon the mighty A.C. Grayling! :fire:
Quoting Shawn
Crocoduck! How can I forget?
Since you mentioned the south:
I summon AronRa from Texas.
@Baden
:party:
How much about Nazi views should be presented, and how should those views be framed, contextualized? And when should this information be presented?
The Jew-hating, racial superiority of Aryans rhetoric of the Nazis will attract some people, sad to say, so that is one risk. As is the case with anti-black sentiments in the US, there were clear anti-Jew sentiments in the US in the 1930s. But conventional anti-semitism isn't the same thing as the decision to kill all the Jews in Europe.
A third problem is that Jews were not the only targets of the regime: Political opponents, religious opponents, homosexuals, communists, race defilers (aryans who had sex with Jews), and slavic people (Poles, Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians), and Roma were also on the list of disposable people. The people of the Poland and the USSR were subject to efforts directed toward their extermination, as well. In the middle of the war, the Nazis realized that they needed much more slave labor, which preserved the lives of some people.
Further, WWII wasn't about the holocaust. Planning for "the Final Solution" began after the invasion of the Soviet Union and before the defeat of Stalingrad. However, killing Jews and Communists was part of the invasion plan.
Yeah, but that news article had nothing to do with that. It's about a politically motivated move to counter critical race theory.
Well, never mind. Critical Race Theory (CRT) presents a different two-sided problem.
On the one hand, Blacks and Native Americans Got the royal shaft from the beginning, and and the shafting continued for a long time. The White, English ruling class organized the shafting (slavery, dispossession, genocide).
On the other hand, the White English working class (AKA, the poor) people were at best pawns. The English elite considered the working class to be trash, basically. White trash. (Up until the Revolution, people living in the American colonies were English.)
Fast forward from 1620 (the Mayflower landed) to 2021, and many white people (most of whom are working class) do not feel they are responsible for the sins of the past. Their ancestors were in no sense "in charge of the country's affairs", or their ancestors had not even landed on these shores. Slavery was a feature of ruling class life; for the most part, in the south; True, there were ruling class or wealthy merchants (upper middle class) White people in the North who facilitated and financed the southern agricultural slave system. The working class was not able to afford slaves.
Karl Marx noted that if one had a choice between hiring an Irishman or using a slave to fix a barn roof, it made more sense to hire the Irish worker. If the Irishman fell off the roof and died, the plantation owner would not be out a dime. If a slave fell off the roof and died, there was a significant financial loss. White workers were not worth much.
In the last 70 years, many White working class people accumulated more wealth than Blacks. Not a lot more, but some. (If you subtract debt from assets, most working class people--white or black--own nothing outright.
The sufferings of Blacks and Native Americans were / are real. No doubt. So are the sufferings of the the white working class.
There is no doubt that blacks have been discriminated against through legislation and government outlays. If some white working class people were beneficiaries, they were not the authors of the benefit. Working class people were not the authors of racially discriminatory legislation or biased government spending, either.
CRT does not want to accept with the defining power of the ruling class, so White people in general become the problem, and their problem is that they MUST be racist because they are perceived to be better off than most blacks.
The White people who are better off than blacks are the beneficiaries of accumulated inheritance. When White working class people were able to get ahead, they were often enough able to pass that on to the next generation. Century farms -- land that has been in the same family for 100 years and longer -- is an example of accumulation through inheritance. So are the houses built under the FHA program after WWII. But none of this relatively small wealth was gained without a lot of work (farming, jobs, saving, frugality, etc.).
The White ruling class interfered with potential wealth accumulate among Blacks, in just about every state. But again, the distinction of WHICH White group acted against Black interest.
Ron Watkins, who many speculate might be QAnon, eyes congressional run in Arizona (Oct 15, 2021)
(Or his old man is the mysterious Q)
Will he get in? :)
What, if anything, ought the rest of the world do if/when Trump and he are seated at the table?
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=101865532289805&id=100073990744289&fs=0&focus_composer=0&m_entstream_source=timeline&ref=bookmarks
While walking in the valley of depression a small light appears in the distance and the thread hosted by one of my favorite attorneys and awesome friend :love:
Quoting Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/oct/17/eva-wiseman-conspirituality-the-dark-side-of-wellness-how-it-all-got-so-toxic
Quoting Guardian
Scary. How easy it is to unbalance minds...
To unbalance a mind, it would first need to be balanced.
Yeah. And how many of us have a balanced mind ?
So easy to influence...to slide up or down; left or right...to the extremes.
Who is it that takes more advantage of that. I wonder...to achieve dastardly deeds.
Piling BS on top of BS...
Quoting Guardian
How easy is that ?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11977/inner-calm-and-inner-peace-in-stoicism
For anyone interested, Stoic Week starts online tomorrow !
Stoic Week is an annual event that invites you to ‘live like a Stoic for a week’. It is run online and is completely free. Since 2012 over 25,000 people have signed up for Stoic Week. Participants complete a questionnaire before starting and another at the end that enable us to assess how much following Stoic life guidance has benefitted you. To date the results have consistently shown that people who participate see a reduction in negative emotions— Stoic Week starts Mon 18th October
https://modernstoicism.com/event/stoic-week-2021/
Quoting Shawn
Or you can read the theme for Stoic Week:
Stoicism and Wellbeing.
A whole world might open up, or not...
At least, it's free with pdf Handbook etc, etc...
Have just registered and stuff has been there for a week already !!!
That :flower: free for me too :wink:
:blush: :party:
Stoic party!
Good to go :monkey:
a) gravity
b) the unbearable spinning cosmos
c) decreased muscle strength causes us to lose our grips and increases our gripes
d) severe disappointment because we were young and stupid once and now the young are stupid again.
e) everything else
A wallowing of sorts.
Wallow wallow.
Here's 2 stanzas from a poem by Gregory Corso:
1
I am a great American
I am almost nationalistic about it!
I love America like a madness!
But I am afraid to return to America
I’m even afraid to go into the American Express—
2
They are frankensteining Christ in America
in their Sunday campaigns
They are putting the fear of Christ in America
under their tents in their Sunday campaigns
They are driving old ladies mad with Christ in America
They are televising the gift of healing and the fear of hell
in America under their tents in their Sunday
campaigns
They are leaving their tents and are bringing their Christ
to the stadiums of America in their Sunday
campaigns
They are asking for a full house an all get out
for their Christ in the stadiums of America
They are getting them in their Sunday and Saturday
campaigns
They are asking them to come forward and fall on their
knees
because they are all guilty and they are coming
forward
in guilt and are falling on their knees weeping their
guilt
begging to be saved O Lord O Lord in their Monday
Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday
and Sunday campaigns
[You may not be old enough to remember, or may not have watched the Billy Graham Crusades on TV]
3
It is a time in which no man is extremely wondrous
It is a time in which rock stupidity
outsteps the 5th Column as the sole enemy in America...
and so on.
in the time of the beats I was about as far from cool and hip as one could get.
One of the worst life crimes is purposely molesting someone to the point of anger.
Another is imprisoning someone in their own ego.
It begets the harshest response. Perhaps that's why Islamic Law has anti peace of mind punishments.
Translation?
Does the first sentence mean - provoking someone to a state of anger?
What does 'imprisoning someone in their own ego' mean? An ego is already a prison - I wonder how much more inescapable you can make it?
'On Anger'.
Here's an article, basically a shortcut to Seneca's writings, with clear discussion:
Seneca’s 16 Stoic Ways for How to Let Go of Anger
https://highexistence.com/seneca-on-how-to-deal-with-anger/
Quoting HighExistence: Seneca's 16 Stoic Techniques
Simpler than reading Seneca but it's more than just a cursory look. Worth a read, I think.
I like no.4
If you have a hot temper, use art and music to calm the mind
Quoting HE: Seneca - On Anger
Yes.
To disturb, interfere with, or annoy - molest.
Ego is not a prison in my opinion, and, given that it isn't, imprisonment in ego might be like exclusion for a evil reason such as bullying, because the person can't think logically their way out of such imprisonment.
Quoting HE: Seneca - On Anger
Hmmm. Just say "No!" to exhaustion as a result of hard study...
Off then to green pastures.
*swinging my lyre*
There was a time when my feelings vascliated between anger and peace. Now it is just not registering.
Take care :flower:
May the families of the hundred and thousands who he ushered to death on a lie - American soldiers included - sleep much better tonight.
Yep.
:party:
If you weren't so idealistic you wouldn't be so bitter.
Why? Drugs?
The kind of thing I could get addicted to, to be fair.
He was already retired, though.
I see. You still wouldn't be so bitter if you weren't so idealistic.
Considering Bush and Cheney, still alive, are responsible for deaths on an few orders of magnitude greater, one can dream they too might find a similar day.
That just comes from drinking too many cosmos. If you substitute Metamucil for the vodka, you should be fine. If you get orange flavor, you can leave out the Cointreau also.
Do you have a switch and Civilization 6? This is a great game for philosophers, inspiring deep thinking and strategy. I would love to compete against you in chess-like competition. If you do have the game and console please message me.
Maybe the SkyDaddy will set that up.
As a consequence of Colin Powell's lies hundreds of thousands of Iraqis are dead, 1 in 5 Iraqis knows someone who died, hundreds of thousands fled Iraq and millions have been displaced from their homes. Can't even be happy about his death since he was 84 and surrounded by loved ones, totally immune from the consequences of his actions.
Here's a song for you.
The context of the scene is as follows:
The older woman is the grandmother of the younger one. The younger woman is desperately in love with a man who doesn't want her. In her despair, she caused some strife for both families, even attempted suicide. The grandmother refuses to tolerate her outbursts and despair any longer, so she gives her a lesson.
At the mirror, she tells her (that's my summary translation), "Look at yourself! Look at yourself! You're pathetic! How can a person fall so low?! And all this for a man?! Was it worth it?! How can a person give up on one's life like that?! How can one bring such shame to oneself?! Have you no pride?!"
Some more:
It'll be back online in a few minutes, don't worry.
Hmm.
It's replacements were boring midcentury buildings which turned out to be very inefficient to heat and impossible to cool at a reasonable cost. They have not held up well over time. Eventually all the big glass windows (the exterior, basically) were bricked up. Hideous.
Of course they will. These people will always take care of their own when the chips are down - those in positions of power.
Americans in general have always venerated their institutionally sanctioned mass murderers and civil rights abusers. What would change with Trump?
As you get older, what starts standing out as the biggest regrets in life? The things you wanted to do but were afraid of doing?
Timidity?
Edit: You don't seem very timid.
Only if they wish to secure the moral high ground. So, doubtful.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/608940
Free online course. Starts today.
https://www.coursera.org/learn/global-warming
In the time of the beats, I was very cool, as are all babies. I grew out of it though.
Never read much of the beats. For some reason they were not on our required reading lists in the 1960s.
I find the best response in cases like this is no response.
Are you still drinking in the belly of the day?
What's going on in the Chocolate Factory?
It drank me. I'm out for revenge.
Quoting Shawn
Some fat kid got stuck in a pipe. I blame the parents.
A critical distinction was that the map of the US didn't include Alaska or Hawaii in your classroom. Another distinguishing detail is that in the 50s everything was still black and white.
Do note the literally sarcastic, figuratively accurate comment.
Are you still planning on opening a penal colony of child rapists and molesters called Badenia?
Currently too busy at the sausage factory. Do come visit when you have time.
I don't think a pig would feel very welcome there.
Yes, I always speak in future 3'rd person. Which is why I'm so anxious about sausages.
True, everything was in monochrome back then.
"Gray skies smiling at me; nothing but gray skies do I see""
"Somewhere over the rainbow, gray birds fly"
"When the gray, gray robin comes bob, bob, bobbin along"
"She wore gray velvet";
"Gray is the color of the sparkling corn, in the morning, when she shines";
"We all live in light gray submarines, light gray submarines";
"Jesus loves the little children, all the children of the world. Gray and gray, gray and gray";
People used to dream in B&W. Dreaming in color was considered a sign of oedipal conflicts.
Some homosexuals were known to wear very gray clothing.
Fortunately we had gotten over the era of gray journalism.
Jesus said the sun isn't gray, it's chicken.
Finally NBC broke the spell of dead gray with living color, and everyone lived happily ever after -- in color!
Oz was in color in 1939, although I didn't know it till we got a color TV sometime in the late 60s.
A movie I really like - Pleasantville - when Toby McGuire and Reese Witherspoon were at their cutest. It was the last thing I saw Don Knotts in.
Maybe it has something to say about the old philosophical question about whether color blind people can understand color.
The gay people, they had gray. The straights were jealous of that. Same old white or black boas every gala. Frustrating and embarrassing, right?
What with sausage makers using everything but the squeal.
Yes, and @Baden is making syrup for the sausages. He seems busy with schoolwork or chocolate making.
Never been to IHop or Denny's? They pour syrup on anything edible there, especially sausages.
She was lucky:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-47161035
Terry Vance Garner, 69, went to feed his animals last Wednesday on his farm by the coast, but never returned.
His dentures and pieces of his body were found by a family member in the pig enclosure, but the rest of his remains had been consumed.
The Coos County district attorney's office said that one of the animals had previously bitten Garner.
The animals are estimated by the authorities to each weigh about 700lb (320kg).
Investigators say it is possible that the hogs deliberately knocked Garner over before killing and eating him. In the interests of precision, the editor suggests that the humble farmer was probably not dead when the meal began.
But they have not ruled out the possibility that the farmer could have collapsed from a medical emergency, such as a heart attack. Like, being eaten by swine ISN'T a medical emergency? They have also not ruled out the possibility that the pigs had been plotting the banquet for months. A spokesperson at the Coos County Swine Herd Improvement Association said that it is a well known fact that pigs plot.
A pathologist was unable to determine the cause of Garner's death and his remains have been sent to the University of Oregon to be analysed by a forensic anthropologist. [I]What part of "devoured by swine" do they not understand?[/i]
He said his brother had raised several large adult sows and a boar called Teddy, and they would sell their piglets to local children. [I]So there you have it! The no-longer cute little piggish murderers will devour the children to whom they were given as pets! The only question is... when.[/I]
The BBC is not responsible for anything. Neither am I.
I can imagine the writer's pleasure when opting for that word.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Exactly. Like the wallowsome Shawn himself, they're not as harmless as they at first seem.
Here's another one, again using the lovely "devoured", and the equally colourful "beasts":
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/10764594/farmer-eaten-pigs-heart-attack-beasts/
I'm joking about these incidents, but can you picture it? One moment a peaceful bucolic scene, next moment, unimaginable horror. I hope she didn't wake up.
Pigs sometimes slash out at people who are too close.
So very human.
It seems strange to imagine that a pig can do that. But it ain't a fantasy. Never forget to feed your pig or pigs, they become voracious and angry.
They'll also eat some bacon without hesitation...
Put it on the plate, maybe add it's mate, before it's too late, for my stomach might deflate. Bacon bacon bacon, can we get some more, put it on the f** plate.
Quoting jamalrob
In third world countries, busses always plunge off winding mountain roads. I think it must be in the journalism style manual.
Quoting Shawn
Did you ever see "Snatch?" Good movie. Great evil pig scenes.
This is why you should opt for goats. Goats only eat salad. No matter how hungry a goat gets, it's just going to look for grass and leaves.
On the other hand, if it did eat you, it would chew you up and then vomit you back up and chew you again because goats are bad ass that way.
I still think you need a castrated pig to feed scraps and leftovers. They're very sociable creatures, albeit with a dark side.
No, the sad irony is that one can usually know that.
Jonah was eaten by a whale.
Nope. God sent a whale to swallow Jonah and save him from drowning. The whale later barfed him up unharmed. :halo:
Ah, I see.
Have pigs been mentioned in the Bible or Torahs?
How does God come up with this stuff?
Of course, Jesus advised against casting pearls before swine, for instance.
Quoting frank
Pearl before swine, my friend, pearls before swine.
Crazy
NYT: surgeons attached a kidney from a genetically modified pig to a brain-dead human to test the organ compatibility. The surgeon said that xenotransplants normally fail at the junction of the human blood vessels and the xenotransplant blood vessels. In this case, the kidney was connected to vessels in the leg, so that the tissue could be closely observed. The experiment ran for 56 hours and in that time there was no sign of rejection. The pig kidney began functioning normally immediately.
PETA, of course, disapproves: “?Pigs aren’t spare parts and should never be used as such just because humans are too self-centered to donate their bodies to patients desperate for organ transplants,” said a statement from the organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, or PETA."
The genetically modified hog was interviewed for the article and said "Of course, I hope that when I need a kidney transplant, a decent and healthy human will step forward and donate one of their organs. After all, under the skin we're all just swine."
Someone else did suggest it, but it hasn't really been discussed. I briefly tried out Discord once for a small group of friends but it didn't work out (probably more the fault of the users rather than the software), and I haven't used it otherwise.
Why do you think it would be good for TPF?
I don't believe this is true.
I think he was sitting around drinking one time and he thought, "I should create a universe where "Pearls before Swine" makes sense.
And the rest was history.
It says they are filthy dirty creatures, unfit for the dinner table.
In Hebrewism is it prohibited to get heart to other transplants from pigs?
You are permitted to accept a heart pig transplant, but you are forbidden to donate your heart to a pig.
Is "Hebrewism" a word?
I see the pig of a heart situation.
Pig pig pig pig pig pig pig pig
Pig pig pig pig pig pig pig pig
Pig pig pig pig pig
Pig pig pig pig pig
Pig pig pig pig pig pig pig hog
If you like this, I'll do a sonnet next.
Yes, that would be appreciated.
A sonnet about pigs would be wonderful.
It's sad to think a pig will never grow up to be bacon.
Ask the Hebrewsians.
It is in fact a word and it describes a particular belief system limited to a single rule: "You are permitted to accept a heart pig transplant, but you are forbidden to donate your heart to a pig"
While the rule appears to be two rules, it's really just one. It's the mystery of the bi-unity.
The Jesusists subscribe to the Golden Rule, whereas the Hebrewists the above rule. Other than that, the two groups are indistinct.
What else you want to know about religion?
It's heartbreaking to see pigs being used for pets when so many poor families go without ham.
The infield fly rule. What's up with that?
These or this is an important question. Similarly, do androids dream of electronic sheep?
No, no. It's made from waterfowl, mostly flightless birds from Ireland and Scotland called "sheep."
Well, glad your having a good day Bob.
I hope you can visit @Baden at the chocolate factory. I plan to be there dressed in black latex gorging on more and more chocolate.
Alright, one more time on this rule. If Who's on first and What's on second, and even if Nobody is on third, and then I'm Not Sure hits a fly ball in front of Who, What, and Nobody, then I'm Not Sure is out, even if He at short goes to catch the ball and drops it. Like I said, it doesn't matter if Nobody is or isn't on third, but if Who isn't even on first or What isn't on second, then if He drops the ball, I'm Not Sure is not out. Of course, if He picks up the ball and throws onto first before Who gets there, Who is out, although that's just the regular rule.
We're just trying to avoid the confusion of an intentionally dropped fly ball by He with Who and What on first and second, which would cause all sorts of chaos because Who and What would need to run to avoid a force out when He dropped the ball.
I hope this explains it to You.
And, in other news, the Braves are up 3 games to 1 in the National League Championship Series over the Dodgers. Next stop, the World Series, which in this case, the "world" is the United States.
I think distinguishing between the Who of a situation and a What of the situation leads to less Not Sure instances in the case of Nobody being Not involved.
That's my take.
What they probly mean is that when it gets wet, it stinks of piss, like Harris tweed, because of the processing in 'foul water' . You have to pay extra for this. For further urinary details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulling
I like who I am.
I can't make anyone else like me without compromising my authentic self.
Where is @Incision when I need him and his affinity for Frost?
Yes, but what about pigs? Do you have any on your farm? :halo:
Wherever it is from, the sweaters are way too expensive to put on waterfowl ($129). Or for humans to wear anywhere they might get shat upon by a swans, geese, or ducks, (teal, mergansers).
c) Even in long-term relationships, sometimes one reaches a cul-de-sac where one can only go around in circles. It is usually a painful situation, without a clear explanation of how two people reach such an impasse. Staying or leaving are about equally difficult decisions, unless fate intervenes and makes the decision for you. (Note: a shotgun is not fate.).
The Romans did not have much of a chemical industry. When a compound was required, it likely came from natural sources. Romans used fecal matter (dog, human...) for tanning leather. Why? The feces contained hide-softening enzymes. Hides were soaked in urine to help remove hair. Sounds disgusting at a distance of 2 millennia -- imagine what it was like up close and personal.
Wet wool smells more like wet dog--to me, anyway,
I'm not even sure it would be good for TPF to be honest. I've been a part of some interesting Discord channels where there are voice and text discussion/debates, but it is a much different format. It could be a useful supplement to TPF or it could end up killing it. Not to mention the extra mod work.
Live debates would be pretty interesting. The overall quality of those debates would probably be worse than here though, which is probably against the spirit of the forum.
Pecunia non olet.
Just north of Boston is a famous Superfund site where hides were tanned using chromium compounds. The chemicals leaked and contaminated groundwater for several miles around. They had to bring in John Travolta to clean it up. I actually worked on that site a bit. Imagine what that was like up close and personal. Apparently tanning is a very unpleasant business - 2,000 or 50 years ago.
Aside from dung, ancient tanners also used brains. Hmmm, I wonder if Republican, crypto-fascist, and overt fascist brains are intact enough for turning a sow into a fine haute couture bag?
Using chromium for tanning developed from the practice of soaking gut sutures in chromium.
Reeking tanneries were generally zoned to the outskirts of town where the poor lived. Progressives get upset when they find the poor subjected to bad smells, noise, and the like. Well, of course! That is just part of the deal of opting to be poor. The poor always live in flood zones, industrial slums, near rendering works and tanneries, and dumps. It's just the natural order of things. I mean, we certainly don't expect the rich to occupy coop homes next to the regional sewer plant.
The only others there are hideaways who have Petitoed their girlfriends.
Republicans retool their conspiracy theory for the mainstream (Oct 21, 2021)
I expect it to be lapped up by dissidents and resenters with an axe to grind.
What a ridiculous circus.
You're not selling it to me. :grin:
But I'm still curious about it.
Nothing is stopping anyone around here from starting their own philosophy discussion Discord server. And if they wanted it to be a kind of unofficial or semi-official TPF server that they ran themselves we'd consider it if they PM'd me about it. Then I or they could invite the members here by sending out the invitation link.
Of course, any member could set one up without going through the staff, but if they tried to populate it with the TPF membership they'd probably be banned for spamming/advertising, and wouldn't get much interest anyway.
So some involvement of staff or other trusted long-term members would be the best way.
Ok, but tanning with chromium salts is still the primary method for industrial leather tanning.
Are you telling me you don't actually look like Otis? My icon photo is actually from my high school yearbook.
The more humane way of tanning leather is to soften the skin on the live animal by hammering the shit out of it and then soaking it in the chromium salts but being sure to keep it alive by slapping its face and yelling out its name. When the animal finally dies, you can then boil it in its newly tanned leather body jacket. After carefully slicing open the belly, the diner can enjoy the meat contents and then take home the remaining leather sack for use as a a fine gym tote and a fun souvenir.
I'm up for it
What's a good format do you think? Sort of a talk show format with guest interviews, a cooking segment, maybe a song or two?
I don't think your suggested method would be a feasible method for tanning leather.
What if I get together with 250,000 other people and by a cheap used Ferrari for a dollar each. Then each of us would get to use it for an hour every 30 years. Turns would be determined by lottery, except for me. I'd be first. One dollar for an hour in a Ferrari. Seems like a good idea.
What, are you in PETA or something?
We'd get eaten up with the administrative fees setting up each person's hour and then there'd be the fight over fuel, maintenance, and repairs. It might make more sense to tan a live animal.
Right, but I would already have had my turn.
You can use the animal's brain to tan the hide.
I believe you would be happy with a pig. Try and get one for your miniature farm.
We have curious intuitions about animals, a lot of the time.
I thought we had this figured out already.
You are issued enterance into the sea of Absurdly, to discuss the idea of wisdom seeking, through a Cisco WebEx portal. (Surely you have moved on from Zoom) But the most important part hasn't been brought up yet and that is if you just want to listen and NOT participate, then it's a $5 donated to the forum. Win/Win ?
How much to not listen and not participate? (Asking for a friend.)
:rofl: First smile of the day to you un, my mentor, my sage. :flower:
Reminded me of ...
Animals FIGHT BACK: Professional hunter trampled to death by elephant he hoped to slay (Jul 30, 2015)
I read that the white guy in question was both a tracker for hire and a conservationist who helped fund elephant preservation through hunting fees.
Put that in symbols on your cave wall!
But about the diagnostic power of political terms, I've been reading about reluctance, even among leftists to use "neoliberal" because it degrades the seriousness of the discussion. Previously, neoliberals objected to "capitalism" because they didn't like the connotations.
It got me thinking about the inherent bias in all political language.
I have enough self worth to keep walking but the hopeless romantic in me keeps me circling back. The fork I took, that may be the problem was returning to school and completing my degree that I had drifted apart from when joining the work force doing something I absolutely loved and felt fulfilled by. NicK said after we had one child that he could double our income if I came home to raise the family. I absolutely wanted to raise our indians and did so as NicK did what he promised and still does today.
The point of friction is that I didn't return to the workforce and stay there, which is true in that I gave the job a year, driving an hour each way for the same $12.50 an hour that I had been making before I came home to raise the family.
I do not for a minute regret coming home and raising our family. But, BUT, I figured out in order to do what I want to do in a professional life requires more education than I had.
So I returned to school and am rocking it as much as I might bitch about math and getting straight A's that makes me feel awesome!
My trajectory is rising my friend and I just don't know if NicK can see past the chivalrous way in which he was raised in and I appreciated at a time in our marriage.
But I would be amiss to not explain that NicK had a life changing medical crisis in May 2020. I ask if you have the time to read about what he went through as he truly, by all science and medicine, should not be alive. NicK suffered an Aortic dissection both ascending and descending and my youngest Indian (20 at the time) were the ones who got him the help he needed in Warrior speed. To get him in front of the top Thoracic/Cardiac Surgeon in the valley.
Today? NicK is out of town and asked for a separation twice in two sessions of therapy.
I've tried to accommodate his feelings but I cannot afford a place and my staying at friends works but I am losing traction in my school where I am not just studying but I am performing my 40 hrs Service Learning required to graduate as a Social worker.
I don't know if we can right this but the idea that only I need to change is....less than optimistic.
Quoting Bitter Crank
I'm getting dizzy and distressed from going in circles of do I fight for what I need? What he needs? I'm very tired and have a good deal of resentment at some things said.
The other thing is as I move along in my classes I am exposed to ideas, gender fluidity, shift in societies goals and how to make sure we actually do provide for the general welfare not just the defend part of our promise. I find myself understanding what people are facing and when I show understanding or empathy, NicK gets visibly turned off and it shuts me up.
But it doesn't shut down in my mind because it is my study! Omg I could just scream. It's so fucked up. I'm trying to figure out who I am because I am not who I was, nor can I be.
I don't think there is much value in the word anyway. Everyone seems to think it means something different. Just tell us what you don't like about the ideas under discussion.
Right. So since most political terminology is vague to some degree, we need not worry if "fascist" or "neoliberal" are used in a derogatory fashion. Those words retain diagnostic power in spite of the bluster of some users.
That's basically Biebricher's argument. I'm not sure it's true, though.
Can you ever pull the bullshit off of the term "fake news" now that it's got Trump's stamp on it?
I don't think so. The BBC has a reputation for failing to stick to facts (which is true), occasionally leaning into fake news (no, not that).
See what I mean?
Met this guy today.
Oh my fucking god.
Did you adopt him or her?
What I get out of the video is that you have big ears.
That actually was me. I'm just a shadow. I bring darkness to the world. It's an ok-ish job. Can't complain.
I saw it as a call for reflection or Zen, in some regards. Is that the point with dismissing philosophy.
Of course the inner Wittgenstein in me thought it had some kind of point about idling engines and whatnot.
To me it didn't seem like a call for reflection. On the contrary.
I'm not against people expressing their thoughts, but in this case I thought the thought wasn't good. It was more a platform for a rant than anything, as I saw it.
Yeah. That was my take too.
It's certainly not that not reading Plato or Berkeley is bad. Not at all. But some of the most interesting philosophical things I've found elsewhere too.
I think philosophy should be broad. It's gets enough crap for being too highfalutin as it is.
Quoting Manuel
Seems that way. Philosophy is exceptional in that regard. Care to explain why?
I agree.
Quoting jamalrob
Perhaps. I can only speak from experience but, if someone doesn't connect with many classical philosopher for some reason, what can they do? It only matters that one of them does, as is often the case with Wittgensteinians, for example.
He did mention James.
Quoting jamalrob
Maybe.
Or maybe I read it too charitably.
I did read your responses and thought so.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Time to engage in handwaving. Long story short, as of now, philosophy is related to a series of problems that have not been answerable even after the scientific revolution.
The nature of mind and knowledge are extremely difficult to parse, as are ideas in general. When things get this complex, perhaps we can't even do science, so we're stuck in development.
I guess.
What's your view on this topic?
Maybe this is what NicK and I are lacking or missing. The stonewalling is not something I can accept. I would like to think I prefer a deeper dive to explore the ideas of others.
:chin:
That is one skinny pig my friend.
He needs to eat and wallow. :100:
I'm amiss about what happened to the logical positivists as treating modern philosophy as the logic of science. I think they had a good thing going.
On the other hand what also happened after that with the linguistic turn was fascinating to see and still has a lot to say about life.
But, recently I've been interested in the amount of philosophical giants and their gargantuan intellect, and whether saying anything of relevance or of interest is related to one's intellect. Apparently there is something to this idea, whether one likes it or not.
On the other hand, methodologies are fun to talk about from time to time; but, what comes after the linguistic turn seems to me more in line with a natural return to existential concerns or, in the best case, a pragmatic solution to age old problems.
My apologies to @StreetlightX for the mistaken accusation.
I think it is a very substantial question and I was very serious in asking it. It gets to the heart of what philosophy is and how it should be done. Perhaps you didn't like my smarty-pants way of saying things, but that's how I always am. You know that. I don't know how many of the responses you looked at, but throughout the thread I tried to make it clear that I came into it with an open mind. I wanted someone to help me understand what I was missing. Most of the respondents were open to my way of seeing things but some had suggestions about how to combine approaches. I found that helpful.
I think the biggest thing I got from the discussion was a reexamination of the practical sources and value of my philosophy. Writing about my years as an engineer as the source and grounding of my philosophy made me realize how practical I think philosophy is. How much I use it and have used it in the past. That's not something that gets considered much here.
I think you made a mistake moving it to the Lounge.
We’re you suggesting that contemplation is undervalued in philosophy or something with the Kafka quote?
Sure that shouldn't be debated too much.
On the other hand, science was significantly easier in the 17th century. Today, to be a philosopher like Descartes or Kant, is practically impossible. Maybe Russell or before him, Peirce, was one of the few figures who could cover everything.
Quoting Shawn
Agreed.
The only one who really dismissed my position was StreelightX, whose attitude seems much the same as yours.
Quoting jamalrob
I was making the case that there is another way to understand the nature of reality rather than listen to what other people have to say - it's to pay attention. That's what I think Kafka was saying.
Quoting Shawn
Quoting praxis
The philosopher who has meant the most to me is Lao Tzu, so there are aspects of eastern philosophies in the issues I'm discussing. The emphasis on experience, paying attention, awareness rather than on reason. And I don't think I was dismissing philosophy.
Thank you.
Sorry TC but I just find this hard to believe. If you were that curious you would find out for yourself, no?
Aren't you just looking for validation of your laziness?
But hey, I'm lazy too, so I'm not criticizing you for that.
Should this discussion be in your thread? What a mess I've made.
I don't think I need any validation for the way I do things. My ideas stand up with the best of those here on the forum. I don't mean I think I'm right and others are wrong. Just that I think I can express my ideas clearly and provide justification for my positions. I have a lot of confidence in how I know things. How I learn things. I've used my intellect and my philosophy in my everyday life for many years.
And I have "found out for myself." I took philosophy classes in college. I've tried to read all the big names. I just don't get it. In 81 short verses Lao Tzu describes all that is and all that has ever been. It seems to me that all the rest of the guys are just wrapping the simplicity of reality up in words to the point they think the words themselves are reality.
Quoting T Clark
Didn't good old Lao do the same?
Reality is simple though:
1962 Ferrari 330 TRI / LM Testa Rossa
Smoke spice!
Moved to the lounge. The moderators are paying me back for making a stink about moving another one of my threads to the Lounge, even though the Philosophical Poems thread has been on the front page for 4 years.
Not sure. Are you saying I'm lying?
No.
All while keeping blatant flat out pseudo-science on the front page.
I was just saying that the world may be infinitely divisible but in our actual experience it isn’t infinitely divided, and you were kinda fibbing.
Isn't the best reason for your view that much of what philosophy aimed for is now embodied in science--what was once called 'natural philosophy'? Science was incompatible with religion, but it wasn't incompatible with philosophy. John Hunter sought to understand nature with a knife -- he spent decades in the latter half of the 18th century slicing and dicing human and animal bodies, and very carefully studying what he found.
Throughout the next two centuries an overburden of nonsense was scrapped off (some originating with famous philosophers) and a sound understanding of the human body and the world it occupies. like Hunter, scientists picked up tools to discover the reality of the world, be it telescopes, knives, ceramic filters (by which viruses were discovered), or Large Hadron Colliders.
Was this John Hunter the first American serial killer? Or wasn't he American? Or is it still Starkweather, walking happily around in his badlands with his beloved Carrol-Ann? Fighting the law.
Might be an interesting study for sociologists/anthropologists.
I thought it was great. I liked the references towards Islam and Muslim culture in the movie. Although it can come off as prejudiced if you think it's only about holy wars or jihad...
Never read the book.
The white evangelicals disproportionately are composed of the white underclass and tend to be less educated and worldly They are more susceptible to manipulative leadership that preys on their fears.
Those at the Capitol riots might have romanticized themselves as freedom fighters, but they were actually just pathetic, gullible lemmings, led by a puppeteer.
Might be time (as you said) to take a better look at this from a sociological perspective and analyze this disenfranchised class for what it is, as opposed to ridiculing it and demonizing it. I'm hopeful they can be elevated, as opposed to manipulated by their "friends" and demonized by their foes.
Oddly mixed metaphor, but apt.
Lemmings don't suicidally run off of cliffs.
[i]Lemmings do not commit suicide. However, this particular myth is based on some actual lemming behaviors. Lemmings have large population booms every three or four years. When the concentration of lemmings becomes too high in one area, a large group will set out in search of a new home. Lemmings can swim, so if they reach a water obstacle, such as a river or lake, they may try to cross it. Inevitably, a few individuals drown. But it’s hardly suicide.
So why is the myth of mass lemming suicide so widely believed? For one, it provides an irresistible metaphor for human behavior. Someone who blindly follows a crowd—maybe even toward catastrophe—is called a lemming. Over the past century, the myth has been invoked to express modern anxieties about how individuality could be submerged and destroyed by mass phenomena, such as political movements or consumer culture.
But the biggest reason the myth endures? Deliberate fraud. For the 1958 Disney nature film White Wilderness, filmmakers eager for dramatic footage staged a lemming death plunge, pushing dozens of lemmings off a cliff while cameras were rolling. The images—shocking at the time for what they seemed to show about the cruelty of nature and shocking now for what they actually show about the cruelty of humans—convinced several generations of moviegoers that these little rodents do, in fact, possess a bizarre instinct to destroy themselves.[/i]
https://www.britannica.com/story/do-lemmings-really-commit-mass-suicide
I've read it several times. It's a long book, and a long story. Frank Herbert's Dune series is 5 titles; his son, Brian Herbert along with Kevin Anderson have extended the franchise, writing several prequels and sequels. It's all very rococo and intricately put together. One book, for instance, is about the early years of the Bene Gesserit. Another volume deals with the Butlerian Jihad against smart machines. Islam is a decorative theme in the books. Rabid tribalism is closer to the heart of it all.
The Orange Catholic Bible (referenced periodically in Dune) is a combination of eastern / western religious texts. The Fremen in Dune were the tribal residue of middle eastern people and religion.
I found Dune (volume 1) and Chapterhouse Dune (volume 6--about the Bene Gesseret's--and everybody else's--Crisis) the two volumes most worth re-reading.
I give much credit to Herbert for producing this sprawling series which is more or less coherent from one end to the other other.
If you substitute "spice" with "oil production" in the movie you have some kind of amazing for shadowing of American foreign policy since it was made.
I saw a small interview with Herbert, and he was close in the government at the time.
The Bene Geserit came of as some kind of covert group with a guiding ideology. Very espionage CIA like.
Just as the Middle Earth trilogy by Tolkien is NOT about WWII, I don't think Dune is about oil or US foreign policy. Granted, it's tempting to read "oil" for "spice", but it would be as good a story if oil had never been discovered. In the real world, oil is produced in many locations around the globe. Does Dune resemble Venezuela, which has one of the largest oil reserves?
Dune resembles major power politics everywhere, not just the US Government's version.
Oil aside, the politics of Dune are very conservative; all of the major players are power trippers.
Your take on the Bene Gesserit is accurate. They are not a covert group (they are very much in the open) but their ultimate purposes are altogether covert.
At this very moment I should be bicycling over to the Riverview Theater for a matinee showing of Dune, but it's already too late for today's showing,
That surprises me.
Quoting Bitter Crank
Whether or not that's a good reason, it isn't my reason. I am, if I may be so [s]bold[/s] deluded, an epistemologist and metaphysician. I love science, but I'm interested in what stands behind it. The nature of the ultimate base of reality is the foundation on which science rests. That's philosophy, metaphysics. I have a way of understanding reality that really works for me. I've laid it or parts of it out many times on the forum. I don't claim it's the only way to see things or even the best, but I believe it's the best for me, at least for today.
It is genetically impossible to cross salmon with lemmings. It also ruins the flavor.
I just finished the second book of the trilogy that’s an immediate prequel to Dune, by Brian and Kevin, and remember thinking in one part how conservative Duke Leto is in his loyal support of the empire.
Well, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
I heard the movie is meant to be seen on a large screen.
Otherwise, HBO has it on their streaming package program.
Since it's in the Lounge the thread will be lost forever unless someone works to keep it connected. My intention is to use the Shoutbox to let people know when there are new poems. If you decide to participate, I suggest you use the Shoutbox to let people know. Here's the link to the thread:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12021/just-poems/p1
First up - "The Love Song of J. Alfred Prufrock."
Don't know how well reading groups hold up...
It wasn't you; I just didn't like Streetlight's and Jamalrob's comments.
Actually, I appreciated their comments. My way of seeing things is an outlier in relation to western philosophy and this forum. Hearing harsh criticism from people I respect really helped me understand the extent of our differences. Perhaps an unbridgeable chasm, although I think our differences are, as @Janus noted, a matter of taste rather than substance.
[DUNE PLOT SPOILERS, EVEN IF YOU’VE SEEN THE FILM]
I got the impression, partly from what Herbert later said, that [hide] it was kind of a warning against manipulation by charismatic leaders, and that ultimately we're not meant to take the side of any of the power trippers.
I haven't read the book but I'll be reading it soon, so maybe don’t tell me that’s wrong, if it is. The point above about Paul not being the saviour that we might assume he is, is something that I unfortunately wasn't able to avoid finding out.[/hide]
The film is wonderful, but I didn't absorb it well and will have to see it again, after I read the book. Also it’s just part one, so definitely feels like half a film. And my problem was that it was subtitled in Russian, which meant I couldn't follow the parts when they're talking another language.
I suspect that the poemy, arty people on the forum will know to look in the Lounge, and I feel some resistance to this use of the Shoutbox.
On the other hand, here, I posted one: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/611471
It has occurred to me.
Note that although I didn't give you a price, I did give you a straight answer:
"I haven't thought about it to be honest. I have no plans to sell it."
I didn't mean it as a complaint. I intended for it to be matter of fact. Telling me my thoughts about an issue in philosophy I think is very important are not really philosophy and don't belong on the forum is harsh in my estimation. As I said, I appreciate the response. It made me rethink my position. It didn't change my opinion, but it clarified where my ideas fit, or don't fit, with mainstream philosophy. That's part of what I was looking for in the thread.
Just because some people were provoked doesn't necessarily mean my post was provocative. It wasn't intended to be.
Quoting jamalrob
I'm surprised. The forum guidelines say:
You're likely to have more freedom in the Shoutbox or in discussions in the Lounge, for example, than in the philosophical discussions.
I've always taken that to mean almost anything goes. Gifs of pigs. Discussions like this. As long as it isn't disruptive. There have been some pretty stupid interchanges here. I participated in some of them. I don't think a few short notices will be disruptive.
Putting my thread in the Lounge won't work. It will die there. Few people use the Lounge. I don't. This seemed like a reasonable solution to a problem. You and probably others don't think the poetry belongs on the forum. I don't necessarily disagree. I could make the case either way. This seems like a good compromise. To be clear, I didn't do this as a way of thumbing my nose at the moderators about moving the other poetry thread.
I'll leave it up to you. If you, as the administrator, say I shouldn't use the Shoutbox any more to notify people of something in the Lounge, I won't, although it doesn't seem reasonable or fair to me. Please be more definitive.
Yeah, I know. :cool:
Quoting T Clark
I just said I felt a resistance to it. I wasn't telling anyone what to do or what not to do, and I went ahead and posted a link to your discussion on the next line, showing that even I wasn't comfortable with my own instinct.
BTW, the Lounge is quite active, particularly "What are you listening to now?"
I confess I'm tempted to crack down on them.
:smile:
You think @Shawn is obsessed ?!
How did it all start ? Why ?
She's Completely Obsessed With Pigs! | My Crazy Obsession
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjvTKnAgBmE
I would never say so, for fear of incurring his wrath.
Yeah, he can be one scary beast :scream:
With an oink oink here
An oink oink there
Here an oink, there an oink
Everywhere an oink oink...
My pleasure. Because you're worth it :kiss:
Kylie Minogue - Can't Get You Out Of My Head (Official Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c18441Eh_WE
Oh dear...you know what that means, doncha ?!
Don't you know that I'm toxic?
And I love what I do...
Britney Spears - Toxic (Official HD Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZuxwVk7TU
Oops ! :gasp:
Britney Spears - Oops!...I Did It Again (Official HD Video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow
OK, I'm done. Promise :halo:
I'd like to encourage this. I hope you get some people to join in.
There have been a few reading groups:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/16/reading-groups
As someone not at all provoked by your OP I’d like to say that I did find it provocative. If I had to guess, I’d say the reason for the unnecessary taunting manner of expression was to incite responses.
I'll try it without the notices in the Shoutbox. If it starts to die, I'll start using them again.
I was using the pigs as an example of the openness of the Shoutbox, not as a criticism of it.
@jamalrob
Thanks for the comment Praxis. I went back and reread it. You're right.
I'm aware of that.
Feel free to post the notices.
In truth, I really felt sorry for those animals. They seem quite intelligent and very sociable. If people knew how spam is made they wouldn't eat it, as well as if you raised a pig you probably wouldn't eat it. This discrepancy between the desire to gratify oneself through eating and the probability of not eating spam or a pig is alluring to me.
Anyway carry on.
It shows how hard it is to change ingrained behaviors or traditions.
I apologize for bringing this negative attention to your pig posts. I wasn't complaining about them, I was using them as an example of the freewheeling nature of the Shoutbox.
No, no it didn't. :fire:
I've been in the plant where Hormel made Spam. It's not disgusting; it's just done on an industrial scale. Pork shoulder and ham are the meaty ingredient, plus some potato starch, salt, sugar, and sodium nitrite are ground up, mixed, canned, and cooked. There is NO offal (organ meat, ears, tails, et cetera) in it. The plant I was observing is now run by some other company.
Spam is too salty for me, but it has been a popular item for a long time.
That said, the general atmosphere of a slaughterhouse can be appalling. For instance, in one work station, workers use air hoses to extract the brains of pigs. Pork brain is exported and used in Korean stir-fry cooking. What's disgusting is that the unprotected workers inhaled aerosolized brain matter and developed severe immune reactions in their own brains.
The human injury rate in slaughterhouses is extremely high for three reasons: The pace of work is too fast, the tools of the trade are extremely sharp, and the floors are greasy-slippery--a recipe for abundant and serious injury. Processors can get away with this because they broke the unions years ago and now use low wage migrant (legal and not) labor.
Yeah, once I can make the behavioral changes economically (basically you need more money to become a vegetarian), I think I'll stick to fish and chips or pollock fish.
Probably not. A fish is hard to develop any emotions towards. Maybe someone might think different...
Would you agree that behavioral changes in food eating is difficult and harder even on the lower end of the economic spectrum?
Well, one usually needs to learn to cook if one's food habits are to change successfully. A vegetarian (or mostly vegetarian) diet can be affordable enough, but one has to learn to be okay with eating lots of beans, barley, buckwheat, and corn.
Not so. I am generally vegetarian and have been for 50 years, but have eaten animals I raised, and also one I ran into. The principle I live by is that it is very rude to eat someone you haven't met. The old hen that no longer lays, the pig that has outgrown his place and allotment of resources, such old friends have to go and it would be insulting to refuse to eat them. Likewise the deer one unfortunately ran down. My brothers are still my friends - I feed them and they feed me. It's a relationship. Bits of anonymous corpse vacuum packed and fresh from the death camp - that's another matter.
Absolutely.
Beans, barley, and buckwheat, per @baker are cheap, of course, but monotonous. One has to really like kale, kohlrabi, cabbage, chia seeds, and such. Tofu for all, seems like.
I like vegetables and fruits, so that part isn't the problem. It's the beans -- boring.
Yes, one has to learn to cook and flavor these foods, if one is not to give up on them. My best approach is to minimize meat and dairy, but continue to eat it. My cooking skills are just not what they used to be. Nor is my digestive tract (pointing at you, beans!)
The vegetarian pictures and recipes I see in the New York Times food articles often seem to appeal to people who really don't like food that much.
I like meat, dairy, and fish. I quite often make a millet porridge/pudding with milk, and it just isn't very appealing without dairy.
You could, of course, butcher your friends and brothers yourself. A little death camp in the back yard. Chop chop.
Before I eat my pets, I stare at them and consume their sadness as they intuit their demise.
I just wanted to have a quote more psychopathic sounding than yours.
Sounds like the Oliver Twist gruel I used to enjoy with my coal smut covered mother at the asylum every Christmas.
Just creating me some more quotable quotes.
Like they always say, it's always dark just before it gets darker.
They are the core of the vegetarian diet, for proteins.
I love beans! If you cook them correctly, you don't get gases from them. It's important to soak them overnight if they are dry and wash them thoroughly before cooking, and to spoon off all the foam right away when they cook. If you don't spoon off the foam, it will subside, and go into the beans, and this is what causes gases. (That's why it's not good to cook beans in a pressure cooker.)
I grow beans. Just today, I peeled (is that the word?) young beans and froze them, for four times for the whole family. I still have quite a bit left to pick. Growing enough beans to eat at least once per week for the whole year -- that takes a lot of poles.
Properly grown and properly stored pole beans are extremely tasty, even if you eat them prepared the same way. Usually, I just boil them, add a shallot onion or bayleaf, and salt toward the end of cooking, and then serve with some sour cream on top. But also in hearty soups, stews, salads. Beans everywhere!
lol. Yes, if we're talking about psychopaths.
I concede to the master.
The back yard is not a death camp. I kill chickens, I pay an expert to kill pigs. The back yard is unquestionably preindustrial. It's familial, as Hanover appreciates.
Trauma can ruin the appetite; your hamster will not hold it against you.
Resources, eh? I don't incorporate economics when I have a pet. At times I would even behave irrationally towards them. I have a very karmic conscious, it bothers me knowing I benefitted from something I cherished time with spending, as food. I will actually go into the deliberation of calculating that if an animal supports me emotionally it cannot do that twice in a row in benefitting me as a source of food from. Like I said I'm quite schizoid in some ways.
Like I said earlier, and which BitterCrank says, is true that you get more fish or Nordic salmon with a larger bank account.
Plants have souls too. They might have been you...or you might have been them...
--------
" WELL, Corporal Westerburg," Doctor Henry Harris said gently, "just why do you think you're a plant?"...
Well, Corporal Westerburg," Doctor Harris said again. "Why do you think you're a plant?"
The Corporal looked up shyly. He cleared his throat. "Sir, I am a plant, I don't just think so. I've been a plant for several days, now."
"I see." The Doctor nodded. "You mean that you weren't always a plant?"
"No, sir. I just became a plant recently."
"And what were you before you became a plant?"
Well, sir, I was just like the rest of you."
- 'Piper in the Woods' by Philip K. Dick
https://librivox.org/short-science-fiction-collection-037/
Love listening to this :cool:
Reader: Gregg Margarite (1957 - 2012)
Interestingly, for all their hewing to biblical strictures, the Puritans didn't eat fish much. One Puritan reported how disgusting oysters were. Strange. Just off shore were some of the richest shellfish and ocean fisheries in the world. The Puritans came from East Anglia, on the east coast of England--fish country. The Puritans were more likely to put fish in the soil as fertilizer. They did like pie, however.
Yes, there are good sources for all that information.
Norwegian salmon is farm raised. Wild-caught salmon is better. Personally, I like canned wild-caught salmon better than fresh farmed. They also farm salmon in southern Chile -- called "antarctic salmon". Don't you like cod fish? It does have a very fishy fragrance, but then... it IS fish, so what else should it smell like--squirrel?
Sardines and mackerel are also good for you. Tuna too.
Science, pseudo-science... It belongs all to the same heap. The pseudo of today becomes the celebrated tomorrow.
Need that omega-3. I love sardines.
That's great.
:flower:
:party:
REDRUM
I had a pet sardine. He didn't mind tight quarters, so he was a great pet in my 2' x 2' flat. My 3 roommates got tired of taking him for walks when I was away, so I had to stomp him to death.
I saw this video and thought you might start training goats and pigs. If you don't want to, then you might want to cultivate that desire. It's worth it.
What would you guys do?
Thanks for clarifying.
Who knows these things. The pig you interviewed for a position on your farm was devastated at being declined.
Although, no joking, it would have grown to be a giant pig.
I've noticed that your recent posts have read like plot summaries for "Itchy & Scratchy" episodes.
OR
The boar has remarkably big balls. With the big bucks a pig balls porn site would pay for shots of those balls in action, a family of five could eat for a week!
OR
The boar has remarkably big balls. The trainer is getting the big-balled boar used to being tapped with a stick. It's a sort of grooming for the porcine orgy down the road. BTW, is that swine chewing gum, or silently mouthing vile pigass imprecations on the trainer?
Who would know these things? All I know is that the pig was quite ballsy.
Dark humour is goood for you and shows high intelligence, apparently :100: :up: :cool:
Talking about severed heads...
Quoting WikiMili: Black comedy
Oh my... :lol:
Can't wait for the Short Story competition, assuming it's still on the Christmas agenda @Baden ?
Quoting WikiMili: Black Comedy
Yeah, words fail me... :sad:
Some sort of self-help theme.
Other black comedy you might enjoy: here
The greatfull dead.
[Content warning - graphic torture]:
On a brighter, enlightening note ?
Quoting Guardian: Cultural Cop26
https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/oct/26/cultural-cop26-films-tv-shows-and-podcasts-to-help-you-save-the-planet
Quoting StreetlightX
???
What is 'philosophical' about this description of torture?
It's part of the psychopathic aesthetic movement where pain is so beautifully described it transports the reader into a profound state of orgasmic euphoria.
I mean right? It did that for you too, right?
Just finished dinner.
Yeah, sure. They can be... cute, I guess.
I visited a massive garbage dump a few weeks ago. I was actually surprised to see so many pigs. I thought that association was kind of a common tale: "dirty as a pig".
In what barbarian country did this sight occur? Civilized countries restrict their garbage heaps to rats, gulls, and children.
Dominican Republic.
Oh, there were those things mentioned too.
But I did not expect so many pigs.
Has to do with punishment as a public spectacle and part of a narrative of how the role and function of punishment changed in European history.
Yes, I am also a beet fan. Boiled or pickled. Hot or cold on salads. I use them for ballast on my hot air balloon.
I remember driving with my brother in Belgium through farm land in a beet growing area. Sugar beets the size of footballs which had fallen off farm trucks were driving hazards on the road.
I used to hate beets. My father would eat borscht and put a spoonful of sour cream in it that would sort of float around undissolved. It was a nasty old world concoction he insisted upon preserving. I've come around on beets generally though. I'd feed them to the kids and warn them that the next time they went to the bathroom not to be worried that they're bleeding their guts out, but they're just experiencing one of the fun things that beets brings their way.
You can imagine how excited the missus is when I go shopping and she sorts through the bags to find all the Wahoo food I was able to secure.
We have Krispy Kreme doughnuts the size of watermelons all over the road. It's so dangerous.
I like the original ones that melt in your mouth, not the kind with fillings, but I can't eat more than one. They are so sweet they actually give me a headache. I think it's just puffed up icing coated with sugar.
See what I mean? How the f. does he know that God doesn't exist? Interesting things Piggy Baggini might say, he is still a piggy!
What's all the stuff about pigs here? As a matter of fact, I addressed them in a removed thread here, the reasons of removal being still unclear to me. About philosophical poems, in which I wanted to give a spicy critique on a pressing contributor. I did my own pressing, and... about an adorable pig!
So Big Sister Pighead asked:
"Oh Piggy Pigly on the wall
Who is ugliest of them all?"
After heavy, steaming snore
It replied to Sister Soar
"Oh Big Hog, behold
That's where the beauty lies
The ugliest are you, I'm told
By my hideous eyes
But beware that in time
Beauty too can rhyme
Upon your dirty slime
As on every random swine"
"If that's the case"
Growled Sister in delight
"On will be the chase!
Thanks Oh Pigly Bright!"
Every eye was asked with force
To collect with every other
Devourng them, wild like horse
She didn't care to bother
Every eye, her own ones too
Cracked by her tombstone teeth
Filling her with ugly foo
From her pighead big to feet
So her ugliness was frozen
Beauty was no more a but
Feeling lucky and chosen
She wallowed ugly in the mud
The Bavarian cream one is original (pictured above). The holiday inspired ones are recent. But I agree. It's a ball of air and sugar. Supposedly the original recipe was French.
It's a nice book, though the context it's written in is the scientific one.
In short:
It presents 100 thought experiments. It sketches short scenarios which form a problem. In a vivid, colorfull, and concrete way, it invites the reader to think about possible solutions (answers) for themselves. The experiments relate to Identity, ethics, art, language, knowledge, religion, simulated reality, etc.
Piggy Baggini is a faithfull propagandist of the sciences.
If only philosophers were small monkeys and piggies!
They are.
Oink oink! Gnarly gnarf! If oink becomes gnarf then they must be oinkily as well as gnarfilly connected by a oinkilogical overarching metagrumbling reality. All hail to the great Gnarf!
I have a similar experience with oysters. I grew up on and around the Chesapeake Bay. My family was fond of oysters. I was not. I have a vivid memory of my grandfather walking down into the bay next to his dock. He walked into the water with no boots. He felt around on the bottom with his feet, reached down and pulled out an oyster, opened it, rinsed out the silt, and ate it. Obviously, that made an impression on me. It is one of my most vivid memories more than 60 years later.
The problem with oysters for us was not raw oysters, it was oyster stew. Once on twice a year my mother would make it for my father. My older brother and I would come home, see what she was cooking, and fall into a pit of existential dread. I come from a "you have to eat at least two bites" family. The memory of the hour or two till dinner has given me strong empathy for death row inmates.
Somewhere along the line, probably in my early 30s, I said, "What the hell, I'll try a raw oyster and see." I tried it and really liked it. I still think beets are better, mainly because a years supply costs the same as about a dozen oysters.
I came from Delaware, which was then outside the breeding range of Krispy Kreme. The first time I had one was on the way to a Boy Scout Jamboree in Richmond, VA. It was still warm. It disappeared in my mouth. I was amazed. The next time I remember having one was in about 2010 on a trip to Atlanta. Since then I've had them a few times. I'm with @Hanover. A little goes a long, long way and the only ones worth the trouble are the original.
When Krispy Kreme started moving north, southern expatriates in New England were in ecstasy. They waited in long lines for hours. I looked down my nose and sneered at the classless rubes. Then Dunkin Donuts moved south. Expatriates from the north were in ecstasy. They waited in long lines for donuts, and even worse, Dunkin Donuts Coffee, which is ... gloriously, indescribably mediocre. My head fell in shame.
The doughnut saga.
I have good news and I have bad news:
Good news - my younger son came over last night and made a purple salad. Red cabbage, radicchio, beets, olives, little slices of orange, and cilantro. Red wine vinegar and rape seed oil dressing. It was wonderful. One of the best salads I've ever had. Beets and olives together; one sweet, one savory and salty, both earthy. They go together very well.
Bad news - It turns out my elder son, a great cook, doesn't like beets.
Didn't see the beacon in the midnight sky until now.
Fewer. Unless you're casting aspersions on somebody's weight.
From the article:
"The supercomputer, called Jiuzhang 2, can calculate in a single millisecond a task that the fastest conventional computer in the world would take a mind-numbing 30 trillion years to do."
Imagine that! Could you think about the task performed? What serial completion of which task, a serial completion of sub-tsaks, taking 30 trillion years, can be replaced by a parallel completion of different sub-tasks, taking a milli-second only? Is it ladt Rethoric talking here? How many entangled states are necessary?
[tweet]https://twitter.com/middleageriot/status/1453380248268050432[/tweet]
A bit wary of the us-versus-them thing.
(link)
From what I've seen, they're both sort of self-important doinks, although I do agree, a doink with a megaphone is better than a doink with a semi-automatic weapon.
If you want to report something then do so, either using the flag functionality or just by sending a PM. Cryptic comments are not very helpful.
Quoting Hanover
Thanks.
I don't know about cryptic comments.
Hmmm...now imagine someone in tech valley, figuring out the mathmatical squencing to have a built in reward system, to influence the brain to increase the supply of dopamine for say every: gain, kill, drifting, longer time spans between that specific game has been played.
Oh my the power that would be yeilded over the end user.
Wow :gasp: that kind of represents the pattern of a meth addict.
My question was quite simple: what do you see is an unmet need the community?
The answer: there is a shortage of beds for those who are seeking help from a domestic violence situation.
Example was the night before my interview a woman called in from the Greyhound bus station and the Phoenix PD responded and once separated the officers tried to find a safe place for her and she had to be told there were no empty beds at the safe shelter or at the NGOs like Soujourner center.
The absolute frustration of knowing what courage/fear it took for that person to make the call for help and then not be able to provide them a bed?
It's a heartbreaking thing to hear about and let me say, my biggest weakness as I work on becoming a Social worker, is my desire to help and not quit until I am able to help or until it's clear that you really don't want my help.
Yep. If you're going to be dealing with addicts, you might be interested in this, although it's long. You may not have time to watch it.
So, 1/3 of people eat pork, 1/3 don't, and the other 1/3... Is this the law of the excluded middle again?
I wish I could eat my port! :smile:
The law of the excluded middle?
Oh...It,'s a joke... I get red in the face...
Thanks. Fixed it.
Good luck, Tiff.
Do the Power Pose!
Is it mandatory to quote Wikipedia as my source?
• if they are not talking about it and still post. Wouldn't that be a symptom of their drug use? A delusion of grandeur or a feeling that they are serving in god's name for example or an obsession with things that are trivial but may appear to be of great importance to the drug user.
All people here, with of without drugs, use this forum as the drug. They are addicted to it. Wanting to show their enormous intelligence and great wit. Faking it obviously, as they almost all show a lack of true intelligence or true wit. Mainly abstract philosophical bs stems from their pathetic urge to abstract knowledge evacuations. At least, attempts to it, as most don-t reach organizations, or are simply impotent. There is no speaking of women, no real humor, except in that terrible abstract way, trying to show an unnatural wit. Luckily there are exceptions to the implicit rule. Talking about drugs without actually knowing, abstract knowledge without actually knowing. Abstract wit, without actually being funny. There are exceptions and those are usually the more human-like ones.showing a knowledge or admitting their lack of it. But most here are jealous, abstract Americans, trying to ejaculated wise words without being wise. Being impotent, they don't succeed. Well, in the usual abstract way. Being the imitators of Plato and Xenophanes, the attitude of whom has sent our world to the brink of extinction. There is no true freedom to be found here. As there isn't in the Legoland transformed physical world. Lucky I have the gift of the word and as such I try to bring some light and liberty back in our beautiful world. I thought philosophy was all about freedom. Obviously, it isn't. Philosophy here has been reduced to an abstract excercisee, endlessly making references to science, in whose name the abstract illusion is prolonged. Furthering the abstract. I have seen not one physicist here knowing actual physics, except people having a seemingly knowledge but on closer inspection just expressing empty verbiage. Modern philosophy is a nice drug. An abstract heroin, though abstract methadone would be more appropriate. Which right now gives me inspiration! Whatever daily drug it is for some, it's still a drug. How craving for a forum they would be! In their infinite mutually othonormal attempts. Without ever finding relief. Without ever substantially ejaculated, their mental speed being abstractly deformed without having the capability anymore to donate the gift of life. Aaaaahhh, yes! Wow! That relieved.
Now if someone said "I want to be a great musician, but I cannot be bothered to practice." I would say that that is a foolish contradiction, because being a great musician is almost nothing other than many years of constant practice. And likewise, ending an addiction is almost nothing but undergoing the withdrawal symptoms.
Once I had worked through this and resolved the contradiction in my own thinking, not smoking was indeed much easier than smoking. And cheaper - who knew?
Your video should be made sticky on top of forums.
https://youtu.be/Se20RoB331w
For a wannabe musician, it is very easy not to practice, like it is for you to quit smoking or for a heroin addict to stop shooting up.
A musician wants to play music, a smoker wants to enjoy his cigarette, a morphine addict longs for the ambrosine and amaranthine state of reality detached feeling good.
They will all three suffer from withdrawal symptoms when not practicing their habit, no matter if they feel addicted or not, which is a judgement to be made for themselves. If you feel a slave of money, then you are addicted to it. No matter how others might think of that.
The musician will long for playing the guitar and becomes mentally ill without it. The crystal meth smoker will crave for the stuff and will become physically ill if they don't take that stuff. You will long for a cigarette with the consequence that you will feel a mental or physical lack. In all these cases it seems pretty easy to just quit. But it's hard at the same time.
Is this the contradiction you refer to? If not, what contradiction you refer to? I can't see any other contradiction here.
Is giving in to a habit the easy way out? That depends on the nature of the habit. If you like smoking and truly wanna stop (for whatever reason) then clinging to the habit is indeed the easy way out and a sign that you not wanna stop at all, or just the sign that you are a slave of the cigarette, a cigarette addict. Lies the contradiction you have in mind (and seemingly have resolved) here in?
If not smoking is so much easier than smoking, then why smoking? Why there is such a wide variety of smoker aids to help them with their struggle in these healthy and fit dominated era, in which a healthy body and an impeccable fitness are emphasized by a unhealthy health-dominated variant of the mafia? How will look a similar aid to the music addicted in hisir attempt to quit the guit? Daily dosed music notes to be played on an included
folded-up disposable guitar for one-time use only, like the socially accepted daily dose of methadone is given daily to the heroin junk to prevent them from hustling and being a public nuisance (and generating profit for the pharmalogical companies, who have delivered an even worse artificial molecule than the natural stuff, thereby giving it a more accepted atatus).
If you wanna be a musician, but don't bother to practice, then you are not a musician. Like if you wanna be a non-smoker and don't bother to be one shows that you that you are not a non-smoker. Or just choosing for an easy way out. From something you long for but are unable to reach And this makes the feeling of addiction find a way.
How did you resolve the contradiction?
The contradiction was, I want to stop smoking, and I want a cigarette. They cannot both be true. The resolution is simply to decide which is true, and which is false. Know thyself, and there can be no contradiction. As soon as one is single minded, these things are effortless, it is only a conflicted mind that has any need for effort and will-power. "So tell me what you want, what you really really want..."
:up:
You ever still really want a fag though?
Feel much better now, DecheleSchilder?
Good to release it from your system. :)
Welcome to the forum.
No. When I smell tobacco, or see old films with lots of folk smoking I smile and remember that person I used to be. I haven't given up anything at all, I no longer think I want to smoke. I guess it's like losing your faith - you don't miss it, and you cannot go back to it.
Sounds rational to exactly know what you want and act on it. Was it some kind of transformation or a conscious deliberation?
Congratulations!
The law of the excluded middle used in a real life situation. Practical philosophy always makes me smile.
DS is our old friend Marco. Banned already.
Come on Marco, your presence damages the forum. Why not let us go.
Ah! Thank you, T Clark.
As always, better err on the side of a doormat, than to engage a raging ...
Yes to both. To be wildly extravagant, it's like a satori, a transformation as a result of a conscious deliberation and deliberate insight.
Holiday of the pagan.
Polo!
How would we know if a member died?
The more overt pagan holiday that is like All Hallows Eve is Walpurgisnacht, celebrated in Germany (particularly) by adults and children dressing up as witches having parties, bonfires, (always good for book burnings, heretic executions), and so on. It's celebrated on April 30, midnight to midnight May 1. Not to be confused with Kristallnacht, November 9, 1938, which was a one off pagan event, or Eine kleine Nachtmusik, which is a highbrow event. Highbrow swine are welcome to attend, as long as they are properly attired. Orchestra Hall is a great place to wallow.
So, there was a pagan thingy on October 31. In the olden days, before large pumpkins were created, peasants carved largish rutabagas and turnips.
And every day for you is Walloween.
Headless pigman would be better.
I saw two hawks working out their differences, using their words, not their beaks.
Bush and Rumsfeld are still alive?
The more important question is when will you get a pig?
Why must God be an atheist?
Edit:
The above question is directed towards, @god must be atheist as to why God must be an atheist?
No comment.
I disagree
A fun team to watch in the playoffs this year, although I couldn't truly root for them since they beat Cleveland in '95. I was rooting for Rosario though.
Congratulations.
I answered it last night when I was very sleepy. I was very satisfied with my answer. However, I did not click on "commit" or whatever it is that exits the editor and makes the post permanent. My bad.
Thank you. I was instrumental to their success, but few have offered me the thanks I would have expected. I watched a couple of the National League Championship games and then I listened to the last couple of World Series games on the radio. Other than that, I didn't follow them much this year, or really any year now that I think about it. I prefer listening to games on the radio because of its nostalgic quality. Also, I don't get regular TV channels and apparently Netflix doesn't televise Braves' games. There's that reason too.
Next up, the Dawgs are going to win the national championship. Georgia is the state of champions. That's why I live here. If the teams start losing, I'm going to leave this beat town, maybe go to the Frisco Bay, sit on the docks, watch the tide roll away.
I assumed that.
Quoting Hanover
Sorry, by any standard Massachusetts is the state of champions. I can't imagine any changes in Atlanta's team's success will drive you up here, although you're welcome.
On my map, there are a bunch of little states in the northeast so small the names don't fit in the state, so I'm not really sure what's Connecticut, Massachusetts, Rhode Island and maybe some others. I'm not even sure if there's a difference between Vermont and New Hampshire and think the names of those can be used interchangeably. I guess what I'm saying is that where ever you live isn't very important, but thanks for the invite. I'll be there at 10ish. Make me some clam chowder, but make the real kind, you know, the type in the tomato sauce. I don't want like the milky kind. Milk is for cereal, not seafood.
If I'm not there by 10:15, feel free to start without me. I probably got lost on a turnpike. I think that's what you guys call roads up there.
When you get here, please make sure you situate your motor vehicle in the open space near Harvard University.
I checked my list of schools and didn't see Harvard School on there. Are you sure you spelled it right?
There are two schools of that. There is blind belief, which has no knowledge, and there is knowledge, which some say includes belief. This is what they teach in the lower grades of school.
In the higher grades, they teach the following: If belief is part of knowledge, how can it be blind? once belief becomes knowledge, it stops being a belief. Belief contains an element of uncertainty, which stops it from being knowledge. "I believe in miracles" makes no claim that miracles happen; it makes a claim about my attitude to hold it possible that miracles can happen. That's belief. Once I see a miracle happen, then it becomes knowledge, and I can say, "I know miracles happen. I saw one the other day." I no longer require of myself to hold a belief in miracles; because I have knowledge that they do occur.
Your perspective on pig ownership might be slightly romanticized. I would take the next few weeks rethinking your pig infatuation, perhaps redirecting your energy in other things, like, I don't know, maybe kittens. Everyone loves kittens.
But, I honestly believe your farm will become a happier place if you adopt a pig or two, and with it you will become happier. You'd think pigs are high maintenance, but that's simply not true...
You'll find Harvard on a different list, one for schools who's former football players probably won't suffer crippling arthritis or premature dementia. You know, the list of losers.
Hi TC. You posted a salad recipe before. Would you mind repeating it here again? What was the dressing?
Red cabbage, radicchio, beets, olives, little slices of orange, and cilantro. Red wine vinegar and rape seed oil dressing.
Thanks, TC.
You're welcome. Let me know if you try it and what you think.
Will do. I can imagine it right now, it's very good. Thank you.
we have started a "Philosophy of mind" group in Discord's "Philosophy Bookclub" channel.
We'll start reading the book of Christof Koch "The feeling of life itself" next November 15th.
Anyone interested?
I tried it, but substituted kielbasa sausage for the cabbage, pinto beans for the beets, and left out the radicchio because they didn't have any at the Circle K. The rest I left in there. The wine vinegar felt misplaced, but, other than that, it's probably going to be a new staple in the Hanover household.
Thanks for this!
I support "creative" reworking of recipes, similar to what you've done. Since you're a "good old boy," you might want to try some substitutions that will make it even more a "Southern Delite." To start out, substitute okra fried in lard for all the vegetable ingredients. For extra flavor, you can roll the okra in crushed boiled "peanuts" before frying. If you don't have boiled peanuts, wet cardboard works just as well. For dressing, use 1/4 cup catchup, 1/4 cup Miracle Whip ®, and 1 tablespoon Royal Crown Cola. Goes well with fried catfish and dry, tasteless cornbread. "Get her done!"
Having this on my Kindle feels like I have a present I can unwrap over and over. LeCarre is such a wonderful writer. His writing feels like silk. Tastes like rare roast beef. Most good books have two or three really compelling characters. His have dozens.
Then I did the same on the right side of a forum and it teleported me into the future lol.
You guys really have the sense of web design :starstruck:
Would you want to read Plato's Parmenides? If not, Descartes?
I can do Plato, no problem.
AWESOME
I have no idea how this works though, in terms of when we read and where to discuss and so on.
I think we usually start a thread, read portions, discuss, derail, get back to the text, derail again, ask a moderator to tell somebody to shut up, go out into left field, the end.
Is there a time that would work better for you?
Hiya SpaceDweller!
Welcome to The Philosophy Forum!
Enjoy your stay :flower:
Tiff
Ah, perfect, sounds fun. :ok:
In terms of time, whatever works for you. I don't want to miss out because I didn't pay attention to dates.
I can start a thread tomorrow and try to make an introduction. I haven't read Parmenides, and I've heard it's thick, so unless a more experienced philosophy buff comes along, it would be a slow start.
Sound ok?
Hah!
That's one way of putting it. It's not my specialty but I'll try my best to contribute something.
Sounds good to me. :up:
That's not substitution. :blush:
Know what the main ingredient in kielbasa is?
Pig.
I was typing a message and I hit the wrong button or something, and then all this code stuff came onto the right side of my screen. I feel like I've gotten on the other side of the matrix and I'm now thinking that all of reality is composed from these cryptic writings and that none of us actually exist. I think if I dig deep enough, I'll find the Hanover code that is me and I'll be able to manipulate my own existence into whatever I want, becoming a god over my own creation.
The first thing I think I'll change about me is how I change simple salad recipes into sausage and bean dinners. I don't like that about me.
I think you are already a god over your own very, very, very, very small creation.
Quoting Hanover
But it's part of your endearing and very, very, very, very limited charm.
Going to have to walk away from that one :sweat:
What exactly is a "perceived transcendence"?
Seems like they are talking about God as an experience. The idea of the direct experience of God as evidence for his existence makes sense to me. It's not an experience I've ever had, but I don't dismiss the possibility in others.
Scott Meyer’s wrote a book about that. Some halfway good humor in it, if I recall rightly.
So I can summon you by hitting F12?
I used to read stuff where sentences like that appeared. These days I avoid authors who talk about "perceived transcendence". Can you have an transcendent experience that you don't perceive? Seems unlikely.
I think the distinction is that in real transcendence, you really transcend. In perceived transcendence you think you have transcended, but not really. It's like faking an orgasm.
Like this?
Right. Right after the skit in which Deepak walks up to a hot-dog vendor at a ball game, and says to the vendor, "Make me one with everything."
I dunno. I tried to fake orgasms before, but it's not the same thing. There is a lot lacking in there. Not worth it. Don't buy any cheap imitations. Remember the brand name, "Marilyn".
Given the software employed here, is it possible for one to find a listing of one's posted content, should he wish to revisit older posts?
https://thephilosophyforum.com/profile/comments/11374/michael-zwingli
Hmmm....I wonder if my final exam is a multiple choice :blush:
You want a way to re-read your own posts without the distraction of other people's replies so that you can admire your own handiwork without having to see the fingerprint smudges on the wall from the children who visited?
On the Latin Forum that I participate in occasionally, there is, within the "user account" drop down menu, a tab which reads "your content", which will bring up a complete chronological list of one's own posts. The software of this site being apparently much superior to that on "Latin D.", I would tend to think that TPF could easily accommodate such an addition.
There is one! "You" and then "comments".
Always good to know one can make a difference! :wink:
There might be a possibility that they made a typo, and wanted to write "you're content". You are happy when you see that list, happier when you see your wisdom's list on this site, so "you're" content is apt and to the point.
I am the first to admit that this here is a stupid post by me.
When I want to take a look at a specific one of my own past posts, I generally use the advanced search function. I put in a key word then specify "T Clark" under "Posted by." You can use the date range box to tighten up the search a bit. I can usually find what I'm looking for quickly.
I told you so in my first reply to you:
Quoting jamalrob
Yeah, but, nobody listens to moderators. You know that.
No they are not!
Quoting jamalrob
Now if you want vast fields of lost wisdom, try to download one's pearls cast before swine on "Philosophyforum".
But the time to die has passed.
Quoting jamalrob
No, never think so. I simply didn't realize initially that the icon consisting of three vertical dots meant "you". I only discovered that after Verdi's post. Sorry about the confusion.
Haha, good! I've been waiting for this shit to end...
Whatever his motivation, it is rooted in insanity, I'm sure. It is a morbid hatred, by its intensity, by its lack of basis. There is nothing I can do to change that. I don't think he has a strong enough grasp of reality so to try to reason with him is a lost cause as far as he is concerned. His hatred for me is about at par with Hitler's hatred for Jews; he has no reason, no cause, except his own sick mind that perceives reality not as it is, but how it is deformed by the voices he may be hearing.
So since I or anyone else can't do anything about his morbid, unfounded, uncaused and only to him obviously justified hatred for me, I just let it ride and view his abuses as one of life's unnecessary and stupid, dumbfounding and irreversible little curses, that one has to endure out of lack of available other remedies to doctor it.
Nice. Like some kind of dance craze.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/617803
Whatever is between Praxis and you, you lose your moral and rhetorical standing and any claim to sympathy when you compare it to Hitler and the Jews. It makes you look like a bigot and a fool.
Please leave me out of this. :cool:
Was there ever any progress in the idea of bringing in professional guest speakers for Q and As from time to time?
Comparisons with Adolf seem to pop up in every internet conversations. Why is that?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law#:~:text=Godwin's%20law%2C%20short%20for%20Godwin's,or%20Adolf%20Hitler%20approaches%201.
Usually because people think it shuts down the argument. "If you disagree NOW, you're eViL"
Apropos, the Atheist God’s mockery of the first guest and the resultant vendetta: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/7163/stoicism-is-an-attractive-life-philosophy-but-can-it-be-taught
I want to understand his categories better, but Peirce himself does not explain them terribly well. Any help here would be much appreciated.
Try asking @apokrisis.
Have you tried typing 'Peirce' in the Searchbox.
There are previous discussions which might have covered your questions. Of course, it might be quicker if you start your own thread...and possibly more interesting :smile:
The only member that instantly came to mind was @Ciceronianus.
However, there are bound to be more still hanging around...keen to help...
Failing that. Have you tried Google ? I found this but no idea how good it is !
https://pages.uoregon.edu/koopman/events_readings/colloq/colapietro_peirce-categories.pdf
Thanks! Now I have plenty options.
:cool:
Northern Irish woman who married 300-year-old pirate ghost divorced spirit because he was ‘using her’ (Jul 24, 2019)
We were in a U-hall truck and got stuck under an overpass in Madison, Wisconsin. We had to let some air out of the tires and try to back out from under the bridge -- this during evening rush hour. During the same trip we also hit the canopy at a Kickapoo gas station in a small town in Wisconsin. Somewhere along the line the door also got dented. I snapped the dent out with a toilet plunger. I wasn't driving -- just helping a college teacher (English) move. Late that hot, humid September night, the fucking junk in the fucking truck got unloaded. I got a case of pubic lice on this trip, to round out the whole experience.
Moral of the story: Don't help English professors move and don't sleep with them.
TMI! :cool:
Likewise, a pig will eat, will shit, and will sleep until it wallows again.
Because the example is clear, concise, and understood by everyone on the planet.
Hitler is seen as unreasonable tyrant who used brute force against a defenseless people. He organized a nation to treat them cruelly with drummed up causes.
This sort of behaviour is often repeated in interpersonal relationships and in political movements, therefore Hitler's example is a good paradigm to exemplify the type of behaviour when one wants to refer to it.
That's why.
I don't see how that is possible.
Hitler treated and organized an entire nation to torture and kill another people on drummed up and absolutely false charges. He did that because he had a very strong hatred for Jews, which hatred was impossible to stop.
Praxis hates me NOT because I am Jewish; that is the wrong conclusion from the simile. Praxis hates me in a way which is 1. unfounded and 2. unchangeable, and 3. very strong. In these aspects the parallel is strong, it exists and it can't be denied.
There is nothing racist, immoral or theoretically wrong in my using this comparison. Only if you interpret it the wrong way. So I spelled it out for you what the similarity entails, so there is no confusion any more what I meant by and why I used the similarity of Praxis's behaviour to Hitler's. Both have or had an absolute, unfounded, and unchangeable hatred. Hitler against Jews, Praxis against me.
I hope you can see now why I used this example, and I hope that now you agree that the theory stands, and I did not lose moral ground, and I am not a bigot or a fool.
This time it definitely was not about you. Please don't take offence.
I was joking. :smile:
Praxis completely fails to see a proper criticism and he mistakes it for "mockery" and "vendetta". He is an unreasonable person who uses every opportunity to discredit me, to mock me and to insult me. HIs hatred for me is unfounded, very strong and unchangeable. Therefoe he will misinterpret everything I say and put it in a negative light. This utternace of his is yet an example of his attmepts to undermine my presence on this forum.
Thank you. This is a very sensitive subject for me, the hatred that Praxis feels for me, so please forgive me that i did not recognize your humour. When you get bombarded by hate speech by a person, constantly and relentlessly, you get sensitive.
1. I am not rambling. Only an idiot can't see that I am making sensible points.
2. Paranoia is an unfounded fear. I don't have unfounded fears, especially not of you.
3. I don't fear you. I resent your unfounded hatred to me, which you portray to date in EVERY post you make in which you speak of me.
4. I decided to counter act your unfounded attacks on me, and to point out in every post you make against me that I see, how deeply wrong you are in your opinions against me.
"Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you." Jesus remarked to some irritated Israelis who were getting ragged on a lot.
You haven't broken any rules afaik, so this is just a request but can you leave GMBA alone please because he seems to be taking all of this very seriously.
Packed up the Indians and took a jet plane to Austin! :100: The people here are so freaking friendly! We are apartment shopping and have 4 appointments each day. Wonder which my youngest Indian will choose on this next step on his life journey! Wishing him the best of love and laughter here in Texas!
Yippee :party: :heart: :heart: :heart:
A more apt and less indecent simile would be a kind of reverse Moby-Dick:
Quoting Baden
:ok:
You're in Texas? Wow!
Lyle Lovett makes up for Greg Abbott any day.
Sleepy phygh.
Per Daniel Lieberman in The Molecule of More, the reason heaven is identified as a place of eternal bliss has to do with how dopamine affects out feelings about things that are far away, particularly in the upward direction.
Bliss is associated with enkephalins and endorphins.
So heaven is full of homeless people.
Dopamine is why the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.
Ah, I just started reading a book called Dopamine Nation and should soon learn if what you say is true.
I need you to stop harassing me because it's hurting my feelings.
It's ok. I'm better now.
@praxis
It would be really great if this back and forth about the conflict between Praxis and GMBA would end. I have found it upsetting. It clearly got out of hand and it should stop. There's a rule. I guess it's T Clark's categorical imperative - When someone is down, stop kicking.
I saved up all my dopamine last winter and in the spring I sprayed it on a 5 x 5 foot patch of grass on the other side of the fence. Throughout the summer it was the least green grass in the entire city. You are obviously not qualified to hand out horticultural advice.
in addition, you may have hurt my feelings at some undetermined time in the past, for which you will be held fully accountable, once I figure out when you may have done it.
Out of the night that covers me
Black as the pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.
In the fell clutch of praxis,
I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance
My head is bloody, but unbowed.
Beyond this place of wrath and tears
Looms but the Horror of the shade,
And yet the menace of the praxis
Finds, and shall find, me unafraid.
It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishments the praxis,
I am the master of my fate
I am the captain of my soul.
I think you probably just peed on it.
High falutin bullshit.
We'll go no more a-roving by the light of the moon.
November glooms are barren beside the dusk of June.
The summer flowers are faded, the summer thoughts are sere.
We'll go no more a-roving, lest worse befall, my dear.
Am I condemned to memento mori?
Until Big old Moby Dick meets you at sea.
That's lovely, now be a good boy.
Quoting frank
Ditto, Captain.
I’ve agreed to honor Baden’s plea for mercy. I shall henceforth be a saint amongst men in relation to the Atheist God.
I do believe we have been Thunderstruck! :love:
Who? :rofl:
Cool. I've only been through the pan handle on the way to somewhere else. Never stopped to look around.
Greg Abbott
I moved this to the Shoutbox because I didn't want to clutter up our brilliant discussion in "What is Metaphysics? Yet Again."
I've never heard of the Two Ronnies. I took a look at a couple of sketches. Made me think of David Mitchell and Robert Webb. They've had a couple of shows on BBC. Here's one of my favorite sketches from "That Mitchell and Webb Situation."
I like that one in particular because two of my children manage farms. "That Mitchell and Webb Look" is their most recent sketch show. It's as good as any comedy show I've seen. Here's one of my favorite shows from TM&WL.
That's the only kind I do.
It's got some of the features of Marxism and leftism, like attention being paid to alienation, but there's no morality at all involved. When they talk about minimum wage, social security, the benefits of labor unions, etc., they're just talking about what needs to be done to avoid chaos from which socialists arise.
IOW, they aren't trying to protect people, they're trying to protect non-collectivist ideology.
The basic idea is that massification, or the city dwelling bottom of the pyramid, is vulnerable to collectivists like socialists because they have no social network and they're basically all exploited labor prostitutes.
So the state should intervene to protect them to make them immune to collectivists.
How could such an amoral approach work? Very well as it turns out. The real enemy of this type of liberalism isn't leftists, it's the libertarian side of liberalism.
So there really isn't much true leftism in the world, even in China, which has its own massification to throw bones to.
Liberalism has won. For now.
One thing that has always fascinated me about philosophers and people who are into philosophy is how utterly ordinary these people tend to be in interactions with others. The same externalization, the same you-language, as if all their study of philosophy has left no trace in their mind.
"Ordo" --no surprise-- is Latin for "order". Question: is the 'ordo' in ordoliberalism a noun (the order, or arrangement that exists) or is it a verb (to decree). Sounds lie more of a verb.
Two reasons for this:
a) social apes learn how to interact with other social apes (for better or for worse) long before they learn about philosophy
b) compartmentalization hinders transfer of skill from one specialization to another. So, one can be a fastidious scholar in philosophy or biology and a slob elsewhere.
E. O Wilson, the famous biologist, described James Watson of DNA fame as "the most unpleasant person he had ever met" and "the Caligula of biology". Insight into molecular structure didn't make Watson a civilized person.
But if philosophy trained our interactions with other people, what would that look like?
angryreactions at TikTok is cool.
With maddiekuzma.
Uh, I don't know. Hayek believed liberalism is fundamentally about rule of law. I don't know if that's related or not.
Agree totally. I've often wondered about it. Another aspect of this is how often in ordinary life no decisions they make are based on any kind of philosophical reflection or principles. In work and life they just go and do reactive, banal shit based on greed, jealousy, ambition and anger like any other plonker.
Biology and philosophy are not comparable. If anything, one expects biologists and other scientists studying crude matter to be ... well, crude as persons.
The liberal arts are another matter.
For one, thinking critically, not jumping to conclusions.
But on the other hand, it was only later in life that Schopenhauer distanced himself from his art of being right. Apparently when he first wrote it, he actually believe that was the way to go about discussions and debates. And if his early example is anything to go by, and philosophy, too, is all about winning, with any means, at any cost.
Stop with the liberal arts chauvinism, already. I'm all for the liberal arts, (member of the National Council of English Majors) but the science people I know are anything but crude. Besides, matter is not crude. Your knee, for example.
Philosophy and accounting are perhaps not comparable, but is not science an elaboration of natural philosophy?
Back when I was going to college, there was a philosophy professor, who had, let's call that, "neglected hair" and usually wore a tattered old sweater. He also had a fancy Audi. Back then, this was as outrageous as it gets.
It made me wonder whether philosophy, like religion, is not intended to be taken at face value, is not intended to be taken seriously, but is, rather, some kind of elaborate sand to throw in the eyes of one's opponents.
Or that philosophical theories about "what really exists" and "how we know things" are actually post-hoc attempts to justify particular ideological stances that are held a priori.
Is this so by design, or by accident?
Like I said, I don't have high expectations of scientists, that's all. That doesn't mean that I think they're crude, it just doesn't surprise me to find those that are.
Sure. But how does studying knees relate to classy behavior in those studying them?
Not sure how to reply to that.
But not using them in an effort to spare them isn't helping either.
Back to my first response on this topic: people learn how to interact with other people before they study knees or beetles or Schopenhauer or Shakespeare. The upwardly mobile young person learns how to behave, to follow teacher's instructions, and to 'play nice' with others. Their good, cooperative, studious behavior is rewarded. They get better at it. Maybe 10% to 20% of students fit this pattern. They go on to college and (thanks to the models of successful professional parents) know how to get ahead in school and in work. Most philosophers and scientists come from this group of young people who learned how to behave properly.
There are a small number of people who didn't have promising beginnings who were bright enough to complete college and compete who may be much less polished, much rougher in their social presentation. These scientists or philosophers may seem relatively "crude". This pattern is close to my experience. It was by luck alone that I attended college, but I was never "upwardly mobile". Once I had the degree, I really didn't know what to do with it.
Philosophers and scientists are both under considerable obligation to behave well IF they expect to get ahead in their fields. That's just the way well-educated, professional society operates. If one doesn't behave accordingly, one will have much more difficulty remaining in a professional field, much less getting ahead in it.
Moderation in all things. "... The essential thought is found in the work of the Greek poet Hesiod (c.700 bc), ‘observe due measure; moderation is best in all things’, and of the Roman comic dramatist Plautus (c. 250–184 bc), ‘moderation in all things is the best policy.’"
Had you had kids, would you have followed your reasoning and invested primarily in their socialization rather than in their intellectual education?
I don't deny what you say here because it's clear that extroverted personalities with high social intelligence rise in management and have the ability to close sales, but at some point ineptitude, ignorance, and incompetence do seem to interfere with forward progress.
That's a false dichotomy and mirepresentation.
I have three children, a girl and two boys. Now a woman and two men. The girl was always self-motivated and achievement oriented. Good grades, AP courses, National Honor Society, got her degree. The boys... not so much. They didn't do their homework, got mettza mettza grades, weren't particulary interested in books, went to college but never finished.
Somewhere between the end of college and 25, both boys started reading, which was great for me, because it made it easier for me to get them gifts. We started talking about books, philosophy, politics. Both had well-developed and credible opinions on subjects that interested them. I came across some of their writing, I was to surprised to see that they both write well. They had never shown any interest in writing before.
Conclusion - one doesn't "invest in [one's children's] intellectual education." On the other hand, in my experience you don't invest in their socialization either. You just try to keep them alive, tie the up when they get out of control, and yell more than you should. All three of my children seem to have figured the rest out for themselves.
I would like some help from the moderators on this. Above is an exchange from the recently opened discussion by @OscarTheGrouch with a response by Wheatley. I checked the Guidelines, including "How to Write an OP." Although it never says it explicitly, it seems clear to me that responders to an OP have a responsibility to address the issue as the OP sets it up and not to go off on a tangent of their own. Reciprocally, I have always understood that the person who starts the discussion has the authority to enforce the OP. I certainly have always handled my own discussions that way.
Again, I'd like to see some input from the moderators.
My question wasn't so much how much parenting matters (which I think you understate), but what traits are most important for success and ought be promoted.
Teachers, friends, parents form the putty. Don't underestimate what you provided that helped them find their way.
There's a psychological term I like - Good enough parenting. To give children what they need, you don't need to be John and Olivia Walton, if you remember who they are. You just have to keep your children safe, help them learn to trust the world, pay some attention, and let them grow into who they always have been. You'd probably like my kids. They are smart, decent, hard-working, competent, and better than me. They get the credit for that, not me.
It wasn't so much a matter of whether or not your comment was respectful, although that's important to me. I'd still like to see what the moderators have to say.
Forgot to say - I appreciate your response. I went back to the moderators and told them the issue had been resolved, but that I'd still like to hear what they have to say.
Yes.
Quoting T Clark
Not directly. But we can enforce it for you.
Knees are one thing. How about teeth? How many millions throughout history have died prematurely because of their bad and rotting teeth? If you think of all the design abnormalities in humans, all the chronic health conditions and diseases humans are prone to - if a god was the designer then really there should be a class action taken against this god for shoddy, negligent workmanship, endangering the lives of others.
Socialization is achieved informally but thoroughly. Decent, civilized people tend to socialize their children to be decent and civilized. Intellectual education is achieved more formally and less thoroughly. It takes a long time to achieve wide and deep knowledge.
Parenting is a residential charm school in which the teachers pay for the boarders. Were parents competing for customers, many would find no takers.
[joke]But @Hanover said I could ban anyone I want. [/joke]
Perhaps the charm school you attended was not competitive.
It's like, if you murder Joe Blow, the state will arrest and prosecute you--not Joe Blow's family.
Quoting Tom Storm
Hunter gatherers had pretty good teeth, pretty much all the way to the grave. Their secret? Very few sugars in their diet, other than what they obtained from berries or occasional fruits. How do we know that? Their skulls tend to be toothy. Eating meat and crude vegetable matter (no refined starch) was a healthy diet--it doesn't appeal to me, but I'm not a hunter gatherer.
Another secret they had was not to live too long. Had I died 5 years ago, I would have lived a reasonably long and full life and avoided complicated and gruesome dental procedures, cancer, and arthritis. Who knows what else I might avoid by throwing in the towel right after I post this? Worse arthritis, more cancer, the possible second run for the presidency by Donald Trump, etc., etc., etc.
For parents, it's being reasonably successful in life and socializing with other successful people. (And, of course, showing their children how its done.). Children learn what successful socializing looks like. I don't mean that they learn how to barbecue steaks for a neighborhood picnic. They learn how to network, interact, collect useful social information, make a good self-presentation, learn about opportunities, and so on.
Street urchins learn some of that too, but the content and context is more likely to lead to bad results for the urchin, rather than a plump retirement fund.
One of the things successful people learn early on is that being suave and projecting a reasonably convincing facsimile of intelligence helps one get one's foot in the door. After that, it's actually being intelligent and knowledgeable that get's one ahead.
See, your average brilliant but poorly socialized person, like moi, just isn't sufficiently suave. When in doubt, I invariably rub people the wrong way.
You have no idea.
That's to teach humans their place and not to cling to things that ultimately aren't theirs.
Authoritarianism. Specifically, right-wing authoritarianism.
This only applies in the person's relationships with their superiors, but not with their equals and their inferiors.
The same philosopher or scientist or other professional behaves courteously in relationships with their superiors (or when they're looking), but has no qualms being mean and even violent to those below.
I never watched the Waltons. They seemed like a boring group of folks out on a prairie or something. My guess is that they were good parents in the sense that they respected the autonomy of their kids, as you indicated you did, which is really what is missing in many middle class and upper middle class families. The working class and those in poverty have a different set of issues. What you see too often in my suburban world are parents who stand over their kids and make sure they get every advantage -- except for the advantage of learning how to use their own brain, which is most often superior to their parents.
You think that breeds success?
Sup
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0100486/characters/nm0000460
They lived in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia. It was a wonderful show. But, yeah, prairie, mountains, it's all the same to you big city sophistimicated folks.
Good movie. That was back before Alan Dershowitz got all creepy hanging around with Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein.
Never watched it. And I probably never will now that you mention that.
I was thinking about Little House on the Prairie, another show I never watched.
BTW, this breaks my record for the most times I've written the word "prairie" in a single day. My old record of 1 is from 1972 when I wrote a short story centering around a prairie dog and a hedgehog, two animals I've also never actually seen.
Prairie dogs are native to the American west while there are no native hedgehogs in the Americas. That leaves two possibilities 1) Either the hedgehog or the prairie dog were exchange students or, perhaps, illegal immigrants or 2) Your story lacked verisimilitude.
Before the days when we started worrying about cholesterol and saturated fats, McDonald's fries were cooked in lard.
Do you remember when they used to put cane sugar instead of nasty corn syrup into soft drinks?
I was certainly around when they used sugar, but I've never done a taste test, so I'm not sure I could tell the difference. I keep saying that I'll buy some kosher Coke when it is commonly available at Passover and do a comparison.
Damn you! You'll leave me with no kosher for passover coke with your childish experiments and I'll have to go without. You treat me as the Pharaoh did, reminding me of the bitterness of my enslavement all over again.
I can always sell you some on eBay. I know where to get them. :cool:
I'm very attached to my rotting teeth - God can keep their filthy hands off them, if you please.
THAT is the word I was looking for when I used "facsimile". Thanks. Now I can relax. BTW, I watched some prairie dogs close up at Devil's Tower in Montana. @Hanover: Devil's Tower isn't a volcanic cone formed above the surrounding terrain. It's a volcanic plug from which the surrounding terrain eroded. That's why there is prairie surrounding the volcanic erection.
As @T Clark noted, there are no native hedge hogs hereabouts. That's because Americans use barbed wire instead of hedges to keep their fucking neighbors off their land. "Love your neighbor, but don't remove your fences."
How hedges spontaneously generate malformed hogs is a biblical-sized mystery. Barbed wire is known to spontaneously generate Republicans.
How many children a Child would child if a Child would child children?
Oh, he owns your teeth.
I learned that word in 11th grade English. Mrs. Coepcke. Best teacher I've ever had. I use it whenever I can, which is not often.
Versillimme worked odd jobs, mostly as a recycler sorter, collecting the empty milk jugs, filling them with urine, and throwing them at funeral mourners. A true piece of shit I'd say. I now question my hands off parenting approach.
But Mrs. Coepcke, the delight of her loins more than made up for the curse of our offspring.
You know much about volcanic formation, and for sharing, I thank you. I have visited out West and seen many a formation, including a huge crater hole in the ground where a meteor slammed hard into the earth, just missing the adjacent giftshop.
I know little of volcanic plugs, but I assume them to be like those delightful metal plugs one puts in a wine bottle to preserve it until the next bout of depression strikes. Perhaps God has such a plug he caps a volcano with to keep his wrath at bay until the next abomination arises, then he releases it, joyfully watching his children dancing like the Scarecrow trying to extinguish their burning flames, laughing to himself "stop, drop, and roll dumbasses!"
If I were German, I think I'd want to specialize in the study of Peruvian mammaries as well. Alas, though, my ancestry is more Eastern European, and so my interests naturally lie in Guatemalan ovaries.
That's funny because my ancestry is also from Eastern Europe, and I have never studied not one Guatemalan ovary in my life.
That's tragic, not funny. You're still young though. Go fulfill your mission.
I'm sorry, you must have the wrong address. He-who-listens-to-@Hanover is not here.
Some of the lessons on punctuation didn't stick, apparently. Dr. Nelson (Eng. Lit 120) suggested I get acquainted with the semicolon. 20 odd years later, writing AIDS education material and being edited by a journalist, I was finally forced to make that semicolonic acquaintanceship.
Here is a sentence to keep in your literary larder:
"Merely corroborative detail, intended to give artistic verisimilitude to an otherwise bald and unconvincing narrative.”
? W.S. Gilbert, The Mikado
The film is five minutes long; well worth watching.
I've seen it. It was used as an episode of "The Twilight Zone." Long, long ago.
You were in the junior chamber of commerce?
You should have shouted Moses!
I'm presently working with a woman who puts at least two fucks into every sentence. I wish I could expel her.
And now, alas, you'll go to hell for eternity.
Fuck, that fuck’n sucks.
Anyway, I just remembered the line in my Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge writing assignment where the teacher wrote “very good here”. Mind you this was many years ago and it was Jesus Christ school. It was something like:
Shakespeare eat your heart out!
Yeah, well water is worth more when your thirsty.
Or as I like to say when I lose something "Where the fuck is the fucking fuck."
Some new poetry in both "Philosophical Poems" and "Just Poems" in the Lounge. Also a new thread looking for contemporary poets.
And now that you're 96, do you still feel that way?
It's a happy pig ...
Nomnomnom.
Is that what Kant meant?
Kant thought many things. Such as a ding an sich.
What is it?
Picking at vegetables on the plate when the eyes are cast your way.
Maybe create a diversion to change the subject in the fashion of Jane Austin.
That is how a theist would deal with the problem.
you can do about it
Problem is that it's like an infestation, it just keeps multiplying. There are so many copies of topics around religion or God or whatever that I can barely find any subjects worth discussing. If the quality of posts needs to be high and the bare minimum of a theistic argument is a really well-written logical argument that actually tries its best to actually be philosophical, then there's a shitload of them not even reaching the bare minimum, but they keep coming and it's like internet ads, pop-ups, spam etc. I would just like to have a filter option to filter out the religious nonsense by filtering out theism from the front page. I mean, you have to put the subject into a specific category when creating a new topic so it shouldn't be that hard to just create a filter to filter out everything related to theism and every theistic argument not properly marked as theism shouldn't be allowed anyway.
The same is true for free will, antinatalism, various baloney pseudo-science, metaphysics, and plenty of other half-assed philosophy issues. Meanwhile, I just checked. There is only one specifically theistic discussion on the front page out of 40 total discussions.
Is that an Uno card?
No, but I saw "Memento."
But have you listened to Jimi in reverse; that's the question.
No, but if you read my posts in reverse, they agree with @Banno and @Hanover.
Shoutbox is funny.
In reverse as in starting with the most recent and going back to your first post on the forum? Or beginning with the last word of each post and reading to the first? Or phonetically reading in reverse beginning with the last letter of each post?
Isn't that how it's meant to be read?
left to right
Yes. All three. At the same time.
That's true of a significant portion of the whole forum. Face it, the only good reasons for coming here are @Hanover's goats, @Shawn's pigs, my posts, and getting to feel all superior to everyone else.
Have you ever been to a farm that had a hog?
:grimace:
A pig is just a pig. But, no, I haven't.
They turn into hogs. They're huge and the whole area stinks.
And 2009:
Exactly
A hog is a wild pig, of course. And, we both know this.
Had any luck with that yet? :rofl:
Then you are both wrong. A boar is a wild variety of the Suidae family. A hog is a domesticated swine.
But yes, the stink if you let them stay dirty. Daily baths solve that problem, just like most humans.
Only if you intend to make a living out of writing pseudo-philosophical reviews or revues of their movies.
No, a boar is something else entirely. A hog is not a pig.
would you like me to recommend a good dictionary? Or you could just google it.
Duroc pig
City boy.
Thanks! Interesting.
Varoufakis speaks of this very well and does Ashoka Modi. Otherwise try looking at Varoufakis' lectures based on his Adults in the Room to hear some really shocking stuff said by the very top people in power in Europe.
Yeah. Europe is held up as a bastion of leftism. Who knew the EU's particular federational style is straight from neoliberal theory?
Quoting Manuel
Thanks, I will!
Damn - although this is a commentary on the state of mainstream miseducation more than anything. The EU from its inception has always been a neoliberal project through and through. Another good resource in addition to the ones Manuel mentioned is Wolfgang Streeck's Buying Time. Varoufakis' And the Weak Suffer What They Must? is also a good, less personal and involved account than his Adults in the Room, although Adults is really shocking, albeit more bloated.
I hadn't realized that. Thanks for the sources, I'll definitely check them out.
Those who don't learn from history, repeating the mistakes.
And those who watch them.
— David Linwood and George Santayana
I imagine in that circumstance that the taboo against eating one's fellow diners might conveniently disappear.
It should be noted, however, that most of the festivities centre around New Year. Christmas Day itself (January 7th) is just religious.
It might be a sign of the moribundity of the British Left that they were unable to take Brexit in a left-wing direction. In the last century, much of the European left was very anti-EEC/EU, including the British Labour Party, and especially the more radical elements. All the old Communists and Trotskyists still hanging around in the eighties and nineties were against the EU, as I recall. In the UK, at least.
This is what made me supportive of Brexit: there was a chance that the British Left could strike a path out from under the dead hand of the EU, and put forward some radical policies. That was over-optimistic, maybe even stupid. In principle, Brexit wasn't necessarily a right-aligned movement, but maybe that's what it was always going to be. In other words, maybe Brexit could never have been taken in a left-wing direction.
As others have mentioned, Varoufakis is great on the EU. It's interesting that despite his justified hatred of the institution, he didn't think Brexit was a good idea, believing that reform from the inside was still possible.
But yeah, the idea that Europe under the EU is a "bastion of leftism" is quite new, and mistaken.
NOTE: my first time for "moribundity" :party:
Would you say leftists have power in Russia?
Although...
[quote=wikipedia]The program of the Communist Party declared that the party is guided by Marxism–Leninism, based on the experience and achievements of domestic and world science and culture. According to the party, there comes a "confrontation between the New World Order and the Russian people with its thousand-year history, and with its qualities", "communality and great power, deep faith, undying altruism and decisive rejection of lures mercantile bourgeois liberal-democratic paradise".[/quote]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_the_Russian_Federation#Ideology
If that's socialist, it's not the kind that appeals to me.
I always feel like I've accomplished something when I learn and then use a new word. It shows that I am [s]articulant[/s]. [s]Articulous[/s]. Smart.
This is amnesia. The Communist party did its utmost to break from Russia's thousand year history, but what emerged, especially under Brezhnev, was the old Russian custom of using a dictator as a power broker among competing aristocrat-like entities. My hypothesis is that the Russian Communist Party is mostly nostalgia?
I think the mercantile-liberal-democrats are doing the same thing: just forgetting the mid-20th Century "liberal problematic," which was about how to come to terms with the Great Depression and WW2 (with fascism framed as a response to the failure of liberalism).
As if the 20th Century didn't happen. It was just a bad dream.
So I feel like I'm relearning everything about the political spectrum as I read about neoliberal theory. It's like: nothing is what it seems to be. Everyone is trying to relate themselves to the 19th Century instead of the 21st.
So maybe we should just do free will or consciousness again. It's been almost a week.
From what I remember seeing on the news, he clearly murdered a few people with a firearm.
@Ciceronianus ?
Well that's weird.
I remember something similar from the 1970s:
You see, here in the US we have these things called "trials." They involve "juries" who make the final judgement about guilt. It's a quirk of our judicial system that the opinions of random guys from other countries who don't know anything about the case don't get taken into account.
The Jury is trying to reach unanimous verdicts on 7 charges. It can take a jury quite some time to reach unanimity on 1 count, let alone 7.
IF the 12 jurors can not come to a unanimous verdict (resulting in a hung jury) the judge may declare a mistrial, or the prosecution can decide to reprosecute, prosecute on different charges, or drop the case (unlikely, I would guess).
Getting 12 people to unanimously agree on where to have lunch can be difficult; much more difficult for 12 people to reach unanimous agreements on multiple felony charges.
I gave a perfectly fine smart-ass response to @TheOpposite's question, then you have to jump in being all "reasonable" and "helpful."
Were you on the jury, having the vast knowledge you have accumulated in your long life, would you vote to hang Kyle or set him free at last?
By the way, how well hung are the guys on this jury? There used to be a magazine called The Hung Jury. If you can't imagine, I can spell it out for you. As far as I now, it wasn't a gay publication.
There's another little tradition in American jurisprudence - members of the jury are supposed to be shown evidence before they make a judgement. I have not seen the evidence.
That reminds me of my embarrassment in school when I interpreted Shakespeare's, "Better well hung than ill wed" as a kind of Zen koan with bawdy undertones.
Immune but still spreading :chin:
I'll never get vaccinated for smart-assery. They can't make me.
I don't think there are enough bullies to cover all of that.
Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not process? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?
Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lords temple into a den of thieves, by you’re immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors. In the name of God, go![/quote]
1653.
Corrupt democracy leads to dictatorship. History is full of painful lessons.
Who specifically was he speaking to?
So!
The first us about intervention to ease suffering in society (healthcare, environmental protection, labor laws, tuition support, etc). mid-20th Century theorizors assumed some intervention was necessary here to avoid the formation of political power among the disenfranchised. But this is a slippery slope. Once that kind of intervention is in place, it becomes impossible to back off it. It just progresses.
A second related conflict is about the independence of the state. I think in some ways the aristocracies of the 19th Century were ideal for liberalism because there was a strong, fairly monolithic, independent state to resist any whiff of collectivism.
Without a king, liberals have a problem. And this is how Hayek ends up supporting authoritarian liberalism, but not totalitarianism. What's the difference? Tune in next time.
Thus the patriarchy: a society organised around power inevitably runs on violence and fear of violence. And therefore it always has a problem knowing when to stop, how to police the police, and how to govern the government. If I were you, I wouldn't start from here.
This would be true if we interpret power as violent oppression.
In a collective, people surrender their own identities and powers to the whole. What is this society organized around if not power? It's just that power is held by an imagined macro-identity which isn't anyone in particular, but exists as a portion of every citizen's personhood:. who are you? I'm this member of the Collective.
Bizarrely, this is what early ordo-liberals wanted the state to be. That's where I got the word "macro-identity.". :yikes:
So how is this supposed to be anti-collectivist?
Quoting unenlightened
Per Hayek in an interview in Chile, a liberal dictatorship is preferred to democratic liberalism because a dictatorship can self limit. A democracy can't.
It was an incredibly weak case for the state. He fired after being fired upon, again after someone hit him to the ground and was taking his gun, again when someone was kicking him in the head on the ground, and again when another aimed a loaded pistol at his head.
Two who who were shot were mentally ill, one homeless.
Is to wise to walk into a an angry mob as a counter protestor with a loaded assault rifle strapped across your back? Obviously not, but not criminal.
I wish people could realize that this result is just AND there are problems in the criminal justice system that need repair. It's not like this result proves that our system isn't in need of repair or that it proves it's failed.
18 months after the riots in Minneapolis, there are still signs of the damage done. The apartment building being built at the time -- and burnt down in a huge arson-fire has been rebuilt and is about to open, and the Target and grocery chains have repaired and reopened. There is an empty block across from the torched police station that is growing weeds; still no word on when our burnt-out post office will be replaced. Quite a few of the small minority shops are probably gone for good.
I bet Kenosha has some very-much still-visible damage. And lots of other cities too.
It can take a long time for cities to recover from a large riot--decades, not years. And it isn't just property repair. People have difficulty repairing their lives, too.
If you drive along some streets on the south side of Chicago, there are long stretches of empty lots, buildings with bricked over windows, metal barriers on doors, and the like--a very long aftermath to a few days of rioting, and a long tail of poverty.
Rittenhouse seems like a really creepy guy. I keep telling people we aren't supposed to put people in prison for being creepy.
So many unknowns: Was the woman paranoid? Was she a misandrist? Was the man doing anything unusual? Was he dressed oddly (wearing socks, sandals and an ugly suit)? Was he very big? was he muttering to himself? Was he staring at the woman? (Maybe there was something really 'creepy' about her appearance?). We don't know, and can't tell from the "creepy" adjective.
What is "creepy" about Rittenhouse? (Hey, I'm not a Rittenhouse fan; his behavior (and age) was immature; he displayed poor judgement in traveling to Kenosha with an intent to involve himself in a game of uproar. Bringing an assault rifle to a riot was guaranteed to be provocative and was high risk. He displayed a fair degree of stupidity in his actions. Immature and stupid people are least likely to estimate risk accurately, of course.).
Just guessing, but Rittenhouse was probably influenced by ample cultural cues to which millions of people have ready access. Millions of people are driving/walking around with guns, legal or not, openly or not. The sales of guns and rifles is brisk.
The _________ German waved his penis in circles at Mother Superior.
-creepy
-amorous
-bashful
-taciturn
-moribund
-dapper
-odiferous
As you see, "creepy" helps us to understand the social inappropriateness of the genitalia dance, whereas the other adjectives leave that in doubt.
It's one of my favorite words. If I call someone an asshole, maybe they think I just can't handle their blunt talk. When I call someone creepy, there's no way around it. No way to spin it into something good. It's true, it is vague, although in context it doesn't matter. No matter what "creepy" means, it's not a good enough reason to put someone in jail.
Arrogant
Bad News
Bastard
Beastly
Bestial
Bitchy
Black Sheep
Blackguard
Boastful
Boring
Bossy
Brainless
Brute
Cadaverous
Careless
Charlatan
Cheat
Cling Wrapped
Clingy
Conniving
Contaminating
Corroding
Corrosive
Cowardly
Criminal
Crook
Cruel
Crusty
Dastard
Deceitful
Devil
Dishonest
Drip (not faucet, but slang term for the runny sore of gonorrhea)
Evildoer
Fecal
Fussy
Good-For-Nothing
Greedy
Grumpy
Hardened
Harsh
Heel
Idiotic
Imbecilic
Imp
Impatient
Impulsive
Incorrigible
Incurable
Indecent
Indecorous
Intractable
Inveterate
Irredeemable
Irreparable
Jackass
Jealous
Jerk
Knavish (as in "liars, thieves, knaves, and scoundrels"
Lemon
Libertine
Loser
Lowlife
Lying
Maggot
Malefactor
Mean
Mischief-Maker
Miscreant
Moody
Moronic
Narrow-Minded
Ne'er-Do-Well
Offender
Overcritical
Rapscallion
Rascal
Recidivous
Reprobate
Rogue
Rotten
Rude
Scalawag
Scamp
Scoundrel
Selfish
Shallow
Shitty
Sinner
Sneaking
Thief
Thieving
Uncorrectable
Unhappy
Unreformed
Untrustworthy
Useless
Vain
Vagabond
Vapid
Vicious
Viscous
Villain
Wicked
Wretch
Wretched
and so many more...
Coincidentally I’m reading a book that talks about creepiness. In one experiment 95.3% of the participants thought men were more likely to be creepy than women. The top 10 behavior patterns (out of 44) that are most likely characteristics of a creepy person.
1. Standing too close
2. Having greasy hair
3. Having a peculiar smile
4. Having bulging eyes
5. Having long fingers
6. Having unkempt hair
7. Very pale skin
8. Having bags under their eyes
9. Being dressed oddly
10. Frequently licking their lips
The creepiest professions were clown, taxidermist, sex-shop owner, and funeral director. The least creepiest profession was meteorologist.
Ah, yes. Indecorous. That's what I meant to say.
Yes. And the Pope is more likely to be Catholic than Jewish.
Quoting Pinprick
And:
Staring at women's bodies
Behaving in an overfamiliar manner
Making unwanted advances.
Making inappropriate comments
Taking semi-automatic weapons and behaving provocatively at protests
1. Standing too close - in Minnesota, "too close" is closer than 3 feet
4. Having bulging eyes - probably has thyroid disease
5. Having long fingers - the better to grab you with, my dear...
6. Having unkempt hair - [i]worse than unkempt hair is verklempt or distraught hair[/I]
7. Very pale skin -just pale Scandinavians
8. Having bags under their eyes - for Christ's sake, they're just TIRED
9. Being dressed oddly - [i]Want to see odd clothing? Take a look at $$$ haute couture shows[/I]
10. Frequently licking their lips. Well, you are so appetizing...[/quote]
I never stare at women's bodies.
What I find creepy is people who resolutely refuse to make wanted advances. #(@#*@#@# THEM!
Some of us organize our lives around making inappropriate comments.
Yes, waving guns around in front of other people who are waving their guns around and who don't like you, is, shall we say, ill-advised.
From the point of view of the weather, they're probably the creepiest of all.
I like that kind of restaurant experience, because the chef ought to know best, but more to the point, I'm lazy to peruse menus and I eat almost anything.
Essentially, yeah. We went to Sushi by M, which is an omokase spot that's supposed to be a little more approachable and affordable, which it was. You choose one of two menus and that's it. Super simple. Some of the most saline, refreshing food I've had. Also essentially my first "post-pandemic" high-end meal, so that helped. I'm still thinking about it.
But yes, I'm also a garbage disposal, so I was very happy to indiscriminately eat whatever was placed in front of me.
If I want to remember a good meal, I find it's necessary to keep doing this, to go over it in my mind and list the dishes I had out loud to someone, several times.
Otherwise, it's only the bad meals I remember. I think this is mainly because bad meals are somehow more entertaining and give you more to talk about, like going to see a bad movie. This must be why bad reviews are more fun.
The thing about omokase is that we literally ate 18 different pieces of sushi, so as much as I'm trying to remember everything, it all blurs together. I was smart though, and took a pic of the menu. One of the highlights was the 2nd to last piece: A5 Waygu Beef w/Uni and Fois Gras :rofl:
Rich.
Somehow refreshing at the same time? idk
Maybe. We had several courses with caviar. My cherry was popped for caviar, uni, and waygu, though, to be honest. It was a night.
I reckon having it spread out as you have is probably better than the single bite I had which turned my brain into jelly.
I've messed around with alot of shit, but brain...bro...
Love.
I meant in real life.
Better stick with fear and coercive violence then.
6. Behaving provo-actively.
7.621 Undefoscilating para-Jewish activities.
8. Brandishing a tub of Trepodense(TM) brilight applicator that you proudly smear on your shingles.
It's all either love or violence with you?
:grin: caffeinated wine, I suppose?
I try to wait until evening for that. But hey!
I forgot your time there.
Quoting jamalrob
Sounds delicious! I need to try rioja.
Now gonna pour me a stout glass of Tennesee whisky so Jamalrob won't have to drink alone.
Very robust breakfast! How are the chickens in the coop?
Quoting Hanover
:sweat:
Egg production is down from 5 a day to about 3 now that the weather is getting cooler. It's a frigid 52 F (11 C) here in Atlanta.
So far, coffee. I'm about to go have a bowl of cold cereal. You?
Do you still buy the cereal with the coolest toy in it or have you moved past that?
Usually, just coffee. But right now, maybe with eggs.
Cold!
I wish! Decades ago I found they started putting pieces of paper in the box, with links to a web sites for some weird digital shit. :rage:
As Tolstoy wrote "All happy meals are alike; each unhappy meal is unhappy in its own way.” I hadn't realized that McDonald's was around in his day.
This is what we Amuricans think of caviar: