creativesoul

Besides that, don't worry about me... I'm just fine! My position has served me very well in real life... I do put it into everyday practice. Yup... ob...

Obsessive? :gasp: Has any philosopher ever been anything but? :smile:

Ah! An important point. I would concur!

We draw correlations between different things for all sorts of reasons, as a means for doing all sorts of things. Talking about how we use our beliefs...

You did. Should the time ever come when I finally convince you to incorporate correlations into your position regarding meaning(and truth), I will hav...

The latter requires language, the former does not always. That explanation has been expounded upon throughout the entire debate.

Interesting that you'd draw correlations between talking of meaning and revving the engine without engaging the clutch, and in doing so change the foc...

And then expect payment for borrowing the shovel.

:up:

It directs our attention to what we ought be paying attention to when taking account of another's belief; the content thereof. What is meaningful and ...

Not sure if you remember Banno's recent Davidson thread on malapropism A Nice Derangement Of Epitaphs, which was a critique of what counts as successf...

It's the basis, the common denominator, the basic process by which all minds emerge; by which all experience can be had; by which all thought, belief,...

and yes... Trump is a walking, talking, living, eating, and breathing performative contradiction.

The speech act theorists paved some new paths, and some very good ones. They drew new correlations between some particular already meaningful marks. A...

Of course it is. We begin drawing meaningful correlations between different things long before we start talking about it. That happens autonomously.

It puts your position to rest. Talking about the ways we use language aside from naming and descriptive practice is utterly irrelevant.

Do you have issues making sense of the above?

You need to do better than that.

Ok. Good. Are you denying that all belief is meaningful to the creature forming, having, and/or holding the belief?

Are you denying that all belief is meaningful?

I don't think it does though; at least not when it comes to taking proper account of all belief. It provides a simple undeniable true statement(all be...

I'm wary. Thanks for the heads up. He claimed that all propositions are about the self, which is absurd on it's face. There's adequate ground for doub...

By virtue of acquiring knowledge of what all belief has in common. The insight is a notion of belief that is amenable to evolutionary progression. The...

This is a point I also agree with, with the additional caveat that all belief is meaningful to the creature forming, having, and/or holding it. The fi...

No, it's not. I'm imagining one who is first learning how to use names such as "mouse" and "tree" to pick mice and trees out of the world to the exclu...

That's about propositional attitude. Not all belief is equivalent to an attitude one has towards a statement/proposition. So, it's right in that parti...

I almost concurred. :wink: That which is interpreted is already meaningful. Some meaningful belief and behaviour exists in it's entirety prior to lang...

Bald assertions won't do.

You described metacognition. That is thinking about one's own thought and belief. In order to think about one's own thought and belief, there must be ...

Some. Not all.

It's all about how meaning emerges onto the world stage. :ok:

What kind of question is that? As if everything can be put into the form of a proposition, aside from correlations drawn between different things? Mic...

Well, much of our talk uses propositional form because that's just a matter of how our naming and descriptive practices work. It quite simply does not...

Correlational form, if we must talk like that. Both require a plurality of things, but propositional form requires that some of those things are meani...

About what follows from that...

I would agree that language-less belief is capable of being talked about and our talking about it has propositional form. All our interpretations come...

I would agree that smoke being a sign of fire is different than marks symbolizing, referencing, picking out, etc., other things. What's interesting to...

Enough.

Statements and propositions are both existentially dependent upon language use. While language-less belief is prior to language, it can still be about...

There is such a thing as language-less belief. It is the simplest of all the different kinds that I'm convinced exist, and we talk about; where "kinds...

I would say exactly that. The unknown(hidden parts of the world) is most certainly untranslatable, for it is utterly meaningless, and all translation ...

What do you mean when you claim that the world and/or states of affairs are 'shaped' like statements or propositions? Surely that's not to be taken at...

All this stuff about language use... The debate is about the content of all belief. Some belief is prior to language. :roll:

There's an emaciated notion of truth, meaning, and belief at work here in Banno's position, which comes as no surprise to me given that truth and mean...

From my second post in the debate...

I'm very sympathetic to the idea that meaning is prior to language use, marks, symbols... However, I've found that apo conflates meaning with causalit...

Important, and a bit ironic, given that I've never said otherwise, but you've acted as if I have.

Nah. I'm pretty sure Banno and I are on much the same page when it comes to belief in God.

Presenting a notion of belief that is amenable to evolutionary progression and doesn't lead to anthropomorphism when talking about the minds of other ...

Correcting a long-standing conventional error of treating propositions as equivalent to belief(conflating belief and propositions) that stemmed from e...