creativesoul

So it seems that one thing you want is to compare/contrast the respective renderings of Jack's belief at time t1. At time t1, Jack believed that clock...

The practice you've been using sometimes attributes true belief to one who holds false belief.

False belief cannot be knowingly held.

I've not attributed contradictory belief to Jack. It's always a case of ignorance when one believes a broken clock.

That's neither a methodological concern, nor consideration. If I spent the limited time available going over all of the problematic and/or invalid que...

At time t1, Jack believed of a broken clock that it was working. This example also seems to come in a form that is impossible for Jack to believe at t...

Regardless of which sensible parsing is being practiced, Jack's belief about that particular clock is false. Jack believes it to be working. It is not...

False dilemma. There are more ways to understand Jack's belief than what you've offered here as the only two... Perhaps you missed this...

Is it possible for broken clocks to work? I've set out two different objections. One is against the idea that all belief is propositional in content, ...

Here is yet another imaginary opponent you've made up for yourself. I've not talked about referents of a belief. I've no clue what you're trying to sa...

I'm hoping to see you do some. I've no inclination to cut through all the misattribution of meaning that you've been imparting upon select quotes, say...

I have been.

Let's see how this plays out... At time t1 Jack believed that that particular clock was working. The clock was not working, so Jack's belief was false...

Another mistaken conventional practice that gave Gettier a foothold. "The man" refers to Smith and Smith only in Smith's belief, whereas it refers to ...

We cannot knowingly believe a falsehood. We cannot know that we're mistaken while being mistaken. That's why it becomes a problem when put into first ...

A certain smugness washes over me... True belief cannot be false. If your logic says otherwise, it is mistaken. Here's how it is mistaken... Your logi...

If that was according to my claim, I would have said that. I did not say that. Seems we get five or six or eight strikes in your game of baseball.

Well, here is one place that our respective positions diverge. Do you agree that it is impossible to knowingly believe a falsehood? Where do you stand...

I knew you would be lurking from time to time... Does "a broken clock is working" qualify as a proposition?

It's false at the time. False belief cannot be true. That's logic dude.

You presented "a broken clock is working" as a contradiction. Going on to then say that I am attributing a contradictory belief to Jack by saying Jack...

That was not an argument. It was an explanation of Jack's belief in the terms I defined "belief" in earlier. I'm beginning to seriously question your ...

I think that the underlying differences between our views are finally becoming apparent. A question for you... Do you agree that it is humanly impossi...

Is that what counts as a valid objection on your view? :yikes:

Jack draws correlations between a man in a sheep suit and his wondering how many sheep are in the field when he believes that a man in a sheep suit is...

Jack draws correlations between a broken clock and the time of day while believing a broken clock is working. Jack does not believe "a broken clock is...

Yes, it is correct! The practice I've used is not guilty of the same offense that you've been using wrt Jack's belief at time t1. Jack's belief is fal...

No. I did not say all that either. How many strikes do we get before we're counted out? All sorts of differences. I'll set out a one worth delving int...

It is humanly impossible to knowingly believe a falsehood. When Jack is in the process of believing that a broken clock is working he is totally unawa...

My friend. Despite your objections, it is. Your rejection of the very idea that we can and often do believe that broken clocks are working is directly...

You could charge me with the same, but that doesn't make our respective practices guilty of the same offense. You've ascribed a belief to Jack that is...

No. Believing is not equivalent to belief. The former is an activity. Activities are not the sort of things that have truth conditions. Activities are...

Reduced to the point of near breaking... Belief consists entirely of meaningful correlations drawn between directly and/or indirectly perceptible thin...

Believing a clock is working is something that happens as a result of knowing how to read a clock and looking towards one as a means to know what time...

I plan on it. They are good questions.

That's a very odd phrasing at the end. There were others earlier, but they all seem inconsequential. I think you meant to write "Until I do..." rather...

The last post of mine seems the most promising for attaining a mutual understanding of one another's position. The entire discussion has skirted aroun...

What is your criterion for belief? You've based your arguments here on your understanding of belief ascription. What exactly are you ascribing to anot...

While believing that a broken clock is working is not. It's the difference between understanding that believing a broken clock is working is not the s...

It has to do with the content of Jack's belief... My position can admit and accept all three of the renditions we've been discussing. You're the one w...

Show me again, because thus far you've changed Jack's belief in your translation.

At time t2, Jack's own report of his own belief at time t1 matches mine. Somehow, you find this to be a problem. According to the above, we're both wr...

Have you never believed a clock that was not telling the right time? :worry:

Well, if you do not wish to continue, there's not much more I can do. I am very short on time for doing this stuff, for having this discussion, but I ...

Ah shit! That's true! At time t1, I did believe that that particular broken clock was working!

There are a few things I'd like to talk about here. First, we are discussing our differing standards regarding exactly what counts as an acceptable re...

Very well put. I'm fairly certain that we are not talking past each other. I'll give your objections due attention as soon as time permits. There's qu...

The above is not half bad. That's supposed to be a compliment.

Is the practice of using "intensional" to ensure that our ascriptions are somehow congruent and/or otherwise amenable to the believer's perspective at...