creativesoul

Do you deny that some animals other than humans, as well as some predating humans have(form, have, and/or hold)belief? Indeed. Such is one consequence...

That's their problem. I call it making sure a position is commensurate with the facts; what's happened or is happening; everyday events; etc. Many ani...

Creatures are capable of those things. If logical/valid conclusions contradict that, then the presuppositions/unspoken assumptions underwriting that t...

Jimi most definitely is capable of recognizing and/or attributing causality. That's um... sometimes as far back as we need to go. I'm puzzled at the r...

I'm not sure what this is supposed to be aimed at. Looks to be made of straw. Sure. Jimi's learned from his experience. Such experience was meaningful...

There is more than one correlation being drawn. Some are efficacious too. Some have been drawn and continue to influence subsequent behaviours afterwa...

Concepts of concepts. Nah.

"Thought and belief" exhaust "concept", but not the other way around.

Sure, but only after it's already in front of us. When it comes to being capable of correctly attributing thought, belief, and/or meaningful experienc...

Still seems too unsupported for my tastes. It may strike some as odd, but I'm not convinced any dogs know their own name in the exact same way that we...

That's fair and certainly worthy of explanation. While I agree that the cases are different, they differ in their respective targets(whose thought is ...

Correlations drawn by Jimi between his killing the chook and Janus's behaviour afterwards is more than enough. The correlation drawn is one of causali...

I think the use of "concept" is problematic. What does it clarify? Nothing as best I can tell. What is a concept of a tree if not thought and belief a...

Indeed, and this skirts around the very heart of the matter, but I'll nitpick first. Autonomy is not an idea. Calling things "ideas" is quite unhelpfu...

Even less now.

Here, you've used some of the same words in different ways than I do. I'll try to further clarify... ...I set out how a creature without naming and de...

Might he? Exactly what would that take? What must also be the case in order for Jimi to believe he had done something wrong, but not see it as punishm...

Upon a rereading, I'm less happy with this now than I was then, and I remember not liking it then.

Why imagine an impossibility? Jimi cannot compare his own behaviour to the rules in order for him to know that his own behaviour did not comply. Jimi ...

Who said she couldn't? Successfully navigating the world requires successfully distinguishing oneself from the rest of the world. Slime molds do this....

I see no ground for presupposing she is comparing your wants to anything.

Metacognition returns answers to you? Does it understand requests all by itself? I'm confused.

Metacognition is not an idea. It's talking about our own thoughts. Irrelevant. The point was that Jimi trembled as a result of drawing correlations be...

That does not follow... May I suggest you reread that post?

Yes, this is a great place to come. Your words made me smile. :flower:

They are not different subject matters. The endeavor is comparison/contrast between the two. What's different is not the same. What's the same is not ...

The behaviour increased the likelihood of reproduction and mating. I personally wonder if a male isolated from 'birth' would display the same behaviou...

We're in agreement with the following caveat; not all things that affect how creatures behave are meaningful to the creature. Gravity. So... just to b...

I'm having problems understanding how "meaning governs behaviour" fits into the rest of that. I want to ask... Would you say that the unknown details ...

"There is no clear standard by which to judge" was referring to the idea/claim that "behaviour expresses belief" and/or that approach. The last sugges...

I think that Jimi's having already drawn that correlation is more than enough to explain the fear and trembling displayed by him upon your return. I m...

Sure. It's true of any ToM. If the ToM being fleshed out by myself were incapable of drawing and maintaining those distinctions, then it too would ine...

That's why.

By what standard/criterion do you judge which sorts of human thinking(rational or otherwise) non humans are capable of?

This is the direction this discussion needs to take.

Would you agree that Jimi drew a correlation between his behaviour(killing) and your behaviour towards him afterwards?

Can dogs compare their own behaviour with a set of rules governing that behaviour? Can they thik about the rules placed on their behaviour? If not, th...

I'm guessing this refers to the earlier examples of tool use and learning how to open gates. I agree that those are cases of rational thinking in non ...

That's not true.

Not all rational thought is the same. Some rational thought can only be formed by virtue of naming and descriptive practices. That is one crucial diff...

Of course the question is whether or not other species are capable of rational thought. You and I agree that they are. Our differences seem to be abou...

I have elaborated on the philosophical enquiry/method I've used to discriminate between language less thought and thoughts that are existentially depe...

Nor have I claimed that. :yikes:

That's not true.

Yeah, that sucks. That's never a good thing. Some people are incapable of calmly expressing themselves. The current state of American culture/politics...

It's not that the word troubles me. It's that the report of the language less creatures' thought(s) is based largely - if not exclusively - on the rep...

Indeed, but language less creatures cannot do that. A process. Something(s) to become meaningful, a creature for that something or those things to bec...

:wink: I mentioned what they were incapable of. It's not all thought, or all belief, or all experience. Just some.

This looks like a comparison between rudimentary sensory perception and Cartesian notion of perception, or perhaps a phenomenological account of perce...

Yes, and understandably so, for they are very different kinds of things. Apple pies are material, whereas thought, belief, and/or meaningful experienc...