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If by "holding a belief" you mean having the psychical capacity to think about one's beliefs, sure, then probably a cat doesn't hold beliefs.

This seems like reasonable speculative animal psychology. If you mean to say a cat is unable to think about its beliefs, I would probably have to agre...

You might say: A belief is a thought pattern and an emotional pattern and you might tack on a behavioral pattern (which in some cases would include la...

I would say: an attitude that can be put into the form of a proposition. But I'm not sure. I'm just following along.

I don't really have much of a background in this kind of philosophy. I just try to follow along and ferret out where the disagreement is. I don't get ...

I think here is the point of disagreement. So the question seems to be: What is the psychology of "holding a belief"? Should the notion of holding a b...

From a mentalistic point of view, the cat remembers the sound and associates it with food. The association gives the sound meaning. It only requires u...

The cat believes the sound of the electric can opener means there might be something tasty in the kitchen. The meaning of the sound of the electric ca...

This seems to be the crux of the controversy. This odd use of the word statable in connection to the unknown. Using Banno's definition of statable: Un...

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks. :smile:

This point is clear and non-controversial. Propositions can be stated. If it's a proposition, it can be stated. But we were talking about an unknown n...

We didn't say it was a proposition. We said it was an unknown. Are unknowns propositions?

At the moment the unknown becomes the known the statable has been stated? But are we then stating an unknown or stating a known? Or is this the place ...

Adopting your phraseology: So we have car that you say is drivable but at this time no one on earth and nothing in the universe has driven it. My next...

I was thinking about this strange use of the suffix -able. So we have an unknown that you say is statable but at this time no one on earth and nothing...

So: In the case of propositional knowledge, what is unknown is statable. Still in agreement? Is there any other kind of knowledge? Or is all knowledge...

I don't mind critique or getting my goat got. I know your personality well. ;) Yes, different. Is this your position? What is unknown is statable. All...

Charity is good. Clarity is better. (More clarity means fewer requests for charity. Also less confusion and misunderstanding.) If you agree with this:...

This: - is different from this: Unless you mean: Hence the world is limited to what is the case, to what can be stated . What is unknown about the wor...

Clear to me. Looks pretty straightforward. One thing I might mention re this: If an infant, to any significant degree, trusted his caregiver to caregi...

Right. Interesting as all of this belief talk is, it doesn't seem very important. More important to my mind (in the Facebook age) is the psychology of...

That's a healthy agenda to my view. :) "Cline" is a nice word.

In the formal debate, creative says Banno said this: "A state of affairs is equivalent to a true proposition." When I mentioned an agenda, I was think...

Hi. Looking at your first post in the formal debate. Here's what I see. I'm no expert. I'm having trouble ferreting out the three kinds of belief. A n...

Yeah, I get it. I suppose it's just a matter of opinion whether we should call certain attitudes of languageless creatures "propositional." It sounds ...

That's what I mean by an actual human putting the cat's belief into the form of a propositional attitude. You just did it.

My idea was that this: (my bolds) - might be a point of agreement or starting point for a new approach. The put into the form of part is obviously ess...

Here we've been talking about the philosophy of belief: namely, what belief is, what a belief is, what kind of language we should use to talk about be...

To me, the psychology of belief seems important than the philosophy of belief. As regards understanding ourselves and the world around us.

I appreciate the invitation. I'll have a look when I can.

Banno's been inconsistent in that regard.

Some lack of clarity and consistency in Banno's presentation too.

No doubt. Almost as though folks have a preference for disagreement. :smile:

Not an attitude toward some proposition. Able to be put in the form of a propositional attitude.

Here you say something broader. Easily interpreted to mean languageless creatures (who have no clue what a proposition is) are unable to hold beliefs....

Lots of confusion followed from the above simple misunderstanding, including a Skinnerian-sounding analysis of a languageless creature's belief strict...

Banno isn't saying a languageless creature can have an attitude toward a proposition. He's saying that the languageless beliefs of languageless creatu...

The creature alone with the box can look and see if there is something in the box. The something in the box he can see and retain in memory and catego...

Sure, infer sounds better than assume.

Of course. The SEP mentions him in the behaviorism article.

Okay, thanks for your input. :smile:

There's plenty of scholarly writing on the link between Wittenstein and Skinner.

So it's controversial to Wittgensteinians because it doesn't accord with a philosophical preference for language-centered epistemologies, cosmologies,...

Do you take issue with this (to my mind non-controversial) position? Languageless creatures have languageless beliefs in the form of thought-patterns ...

Thanks.

The more aggressive you get, the more vulnerable you appear. Why are you spending so much time on something that you consider... ? It's not quite rati...

It's against you, not Wittgenstein. Again: Tell me what the controversy is.

Weak.

Always Skinner with this one. (Reductionism to operationalized visible behaviors.) Are you a behavior analyst? Languageless creatures have languageles...

Right, nothing, of course.