Banno

Ah. So what are they?

Yep. As groundless as the assumption that there are such things.

I've heard the first five minutes of dozens of this podcast.

...then you should have no trouble setting those rules out, so we can share them. The history of philosophy in the 20th century shows this to be a som...

That's what we both said. Too often a neophyte will present the profound truth that we cannot say anything true. You've seen it. They'll next water th...

If you like; but I've seen the phases of Venus. Some folk mistakenly think our senses a restriction. I'd take a step back from senses, and hence from ...

"...really..." No.

The quantity of information necessary to "say" the world as it is might be infinite; one could not put it into words. But saying we don't see the worl...

Who?

Are you pointing out anything more than that we set up infinities using recursion?

Sure, you can play chess by yourself. It's still a game for two players.

Nice plot twist. I will try not to hold it against him.

...

Qualia are only one example of the problem.

Fine. The reference to Popper was interesting. I'd forgotten he used the term, so I retrieved LSD and Against Method from their place on my shelf for ...

That the map is not the territory does not render the map wrong.

Hey, @"frank" - what's your take on reality? I think it an odd question; perhaps your answering it will make clearer what it is you are after...?

AH, well. just so long as you are not seeing red. That't be idiomatic.

I wonder if it is what @"unenlightened" has in mind,

have you ever seen red by itself? What would that be like? Just the one colour over your entire visual field?

If, as you say, there are intrinsically private mental phenomena, all you need do to prove their existence is to list them. Off you go, then.

...ones that we seem to be able to talk about pretty readily. So the question is, in what useful sense are they private?

Good question. There's a thread about it.

That's rubbish, of course. No one is denying that we have minds. What is denied is a particular model of the mind. Here's a neat summary of the key po...

Do you play chess against yourself? Does that make Chess a one-player game? What you call a private language seems to be quite different to the sort o...

:rofl:

...stuff... The notion of individuality in relation to mental attributes is fraught. Some folk treat pains like noses.

...as in the experience would be different.

Yep. No mental stuff here.

I'm too tired at the moment to follow the confusion in this discussion. I don't see how "Subjectivity is intersubjective" is the same as "without the ...

I'm just not seeing the point.

Well...

OK. You do see that the question you asked Mww is different to the question you asked me..? Mortgages and Football associations are social constructs....

OK.

I rather like the chess analogy, Since chess is a social construct, playing chess by yourself is also a social construct...

No - I would not use that word; nor the notion of reality that seems implicit. Far too broad. Poor us, Frank; you only ever ask half an question, I on...

SO... ...which takes us back to the OP...

That's pretty much it. So how could one make a private language - one that could not be translated in principle? There is considerable discussion of p...

You sure you want to throw in your lot with a bloke with an eccentric notion of equality, Mww? Making up stories about what I've claimed is not very f...

Thanks. Yes, that's the point. Noses are a neat example.

Don't tell Heidegger.

Ok.

... and there's the expected ad hoc hypothesis. Ok, that renders your view irrefutable; you've just defined pain as a private sensation. The twist is,...

This view has been falsified. See Mirror Neurones and mirror-touch synesthesia.

I'm nonplussed. I was expecting some ad hoc notion to defend your hypothesis; instead you deny the facts. ...And this becomes about you, not about the...

I'm not going to spoon feed you.

SO... your claim is that originally there were words used only by one person... a private language? What do you think they did with these words? What ...

That's not how it works. We work together to build the use of a word.

Why are you so sure? Why so certain? The myth has you in its thrall; how could things be otherwise?

Is this pivotal for you? Suppose a clever surgeon wired your arm to mine, so that if I stick a pin in my thumb, we both feel it. Is there anything her...