khaled

Why would it be the other way? I think this is purely up to subjective judgement, though it is a common fact that most people are much more loss avers...

it depends on how you define "exist". I define it as "have subjective experience" in which case you really can't confuse whether or not you have it

I don't see anything wrong with your reading or with the conclusion that one would treat life as sacred as a result. What I do have a problem with is ...

"show they are true" can also be interpreted both ways..... Either empirical or axiomatic proof. I was saying that you can't prove newton's laws axiom...

I can't think of one. That's the thing. That IS the least risky option though. Just so we're on the same page: The least risky option is the one that ...

The OP was "I would like to know how you can prove these laws". I explained that the answer depended on what you mean by proof. No where was this: Sai...

Give an example of it being false. The same correct assertion. This was an example of a very stupid unnecessary surgery. At being that it did its job....

You can't. If by prove you mean the same sort of "proof" required in math. In sciences you try to see whether or not something is the case. In math wh...

No one can. That's a moral premise. You can't "convince" someone of a premise logically. For example: no one can prove that if A=B and B=C that A=C an...

Yes. And for all of those cases where putting a child through surgery is considered to be ok is when the risk of not going through surgery Trumps the ...

Where did you get that I was appealing to consequentialism?

how in the world do you expect me to go about proving a claim such as "In every situation when consent is not available the least risky option is chos...

How long are you planning to dodge giving an example? I got to go now I don't wanna waste any more time on this.

I gave an example as you asked. Now it's your turn. Or can you not come up with one that refutes the claim? Do you want more examples? It's wrong to p...

Find a situation where we find it ok to put someone in a riskier position without their consent. Riskier defined as "risks more harm than their origin...

Obviously that's what I meant. I was pointing out that you clearly think they're inadequate but I don't. And that repeating your opinion doesn't get u...

What you're doing doesn't get us anywhere either. Refusing this statement but not providing an alternative. I can't convince you of this premise. It's...

You: These analogies are terrible Me: I agree, they are extremes intended to show a general principle You: These analogies are terrible Find me an exa...

I think you can say the risk of harm is 0 in that situation. It is trivially true that if a certain person doesn't exist that person is not risked any...

Of course. They are extremes intended to show a general principle. They don't "rely" on analogies. Analogies just make them easier to understand, extr...

check the edit

First off, you haven’t shown it to be faulty yet. Secondly, if antinatalist reasoning is actually followed there would be no fetus to kill or not kill...

It has nothing to do with pleasantness. Is it or is it not true that existence has a greater risk of harm than non existence? It is true. That is the ...

What's this referring to. What problem? Oh. I thought it said "Even though, in itself a refutation,....." My bad Alright then. What do you suppose we ...

I didn’t say it was. I was going to go from there and expand the principle but then you insisted i give examples of an ethical system where geneticall...

As long as it’s nervous system hasn’t been developed, yes. Ad absurdium arguments only make sense if we agree killing said fetus is absurd. How about:...

ahhh, you were talking about antinatalism in general. You’re right, there aren’t many ethical systems in support of antinatalism but I was specificall...

I was just about to say utilitarianism. When did you do this? Because I can’t find it. I would have thought causing someone to experience more sufferi...

Fetuses become humans. I was talking about fetuses in the last reply my bad for not making that clear. It is indeed about real people.

You know what I meant cut the crap. One of them becomes a sentient being and the other doesn’t. Do you think there should be any change in how we trea...

I think you misread. I didn't claim there is any ethical system that allows genetically modifying children to suffer. When you asked for ethical syste...

I would if it can be shown bananas experience pain to an extent close to us You think there is no difference between a banana and a fetus? You think t...

Why does this stop it from being applicable? If it is impossible to give consent, consent is not given. If consent is not given it can't be assumed. I...

In the case of self defense it's they get harmed or you do. So you wouldn't be wrong in preferring your own safety. In the case of having children no ...

Let's start with this one then: 1- Imposing something that risks significant harm on someone without their consent is wrong 2- Childbirth is imposing ...

You don’t know whether or not genetically modifying children to suffer is right or wrong? No, not necessarily. All I said was that childbirth risks ha...

Ah I see. But then again, you’re not looking at the whole experience. Say you get off after 1 hour. Then if I asked you: would you like to get on a ro...

Would you knowingly hop on a perpetual roller coaster though? Obviously not. Then it’s not worth starting is it? You did when you claimed that life be...

So it’s wrong but you don’t know why you think it’s wrong? For my position it would be very easy to explain. Because it will harm someone in the futur...

I could then say that most humans will get the intuition that their tea isn’t conscious due to environmental programming. Threatening to call someone ...

Explain to me why genetically modifying children to suffer is wrong then. Most explanations you come up with you will find will lead to antinatalism. ...

This is called not addressing the hypothetical. You haven’t actually answered the question with the restraints imposed. I think it does, but then agai...

That’s not reasoning that’s just your intuition. You haven’t actually thought about this. There is a clear distinction between experiences worth start...

Ok. I get what you're saying. Now what are those conditions in the case of natalism vs antinatalism? There is no "drug" that pushes people to have the...

if it’s a contrapositive doesn’t it mean that thinking one is identical with thinking the other? He just wrote it in a weird way?

Yes I have, and I thought it was an unrelated argument. Whether or not the living think life is worth living has nothing to do with whether or not the...

No. No. We only do that when considering the consequences of a certain action. For example, we don’t think not having kids is harming anyone. Because ...

Jesus fucking Christ. Citing one example then saying the whole post is oozing with hypocrisy? Also the first quote very clearly has the the added line...

Isn’t that just the contrapositive though? I was surprised to notice that.

There you go with the personal insults again. I just don’t understand what you think this is accomplishing. These are the assumptions for this example...