schopenhauer1

But you asked about Utopia.. In this case: So is it Utopia or not? Are there dire consequences of not doing X?

Can you define utopia here? What are the implications as far as dire circumstances if no X?

Oh Wheatgrass, no no. You can have an unjust situation and have someone enjoy their life. Precisely why my argument is more than the simplicity you de...

I think there are a lot of metaphors in Genesis, if one allows it to be read that way. Ever read E.M Cioran's The Temptation to Exist?

A lot of things get overlooked when you do that. Your response is then stick fingers in ears.

And you ignored my response. No problems if you ignore them.

So just borrow another poster's response? Weak.. But anyways, I responded to him in kind explaining how a slave can be happy on a daily level, but be ...

See my points about happy slave earlier in the thread.

So the issue I am discussing right now is the unjust situation of the de facto fact of an inescapable set of challenges that cannot be opted out witho...

Simply a moral stance not a political policy. I used veganism as an example. I'm sure many vegans would want people to stop eating meat. Doesn't mean ...

To prevent injustice taking place, yes. Now who is making it complicated :wink:.

An ethical stance doesn't mean political force. Vegans would love if people stopped eating meat.. Doubt that will become a political mandate. Not sure...

Yes, life is "unfair".. I would say "unjust".. unfair brings about certain connotations.. In this case, I am highlighting the pervasive feature of lif...

In what world does, "Do not have kids" count as philosophically abstract? Pretty concrete to me. Unjust in that the person cannot escape the work-game...

What if a baby was guaranteed to be born into a lava pit and you can convince the parent not to do that? You would, correct? The thing is you are not ...

Read all my previous responses to this. You should be able to quote it now like an English teacher to Shakespeare.

Why do you suppose I am suggesting we change our system?

See my responses to NOS then previously. I'm not bringing the non-identity problem up yet again.

Added more..

To go further.. anything short of preventing future people is basically saying "I have a political agenda.. I WANT to see a way of life perpetuated.. ...

What did you expect the answer to be? Of course my main answer of the injustices of life is to prevent future children. That is how we prevent it.

We went over this haven't we? I have responded to this haven't I? You don't believe people can prevent future outcomes. Essentially your (weak) argume...

C'mon, you're full of shit if you don't know that I'm going to say that potential parents should prevent their future children from entering into it b...

Not putting anyone into the economic system in the first place. You should know my answer by now...

Glad to see! It sounds though that under different economic conditions (socialist/communist/anarcho-communist?) you WOULD reproduce though? My positio...

I am not explaining my objection yet again to this kind of argument.

So two things.. Point 1) As I asked before, can you please let me know that one can make a distinction between working-to-survive and a kind of "trivi...

Right...Not much to say with this. Even in that scenario not bringing more people into the world would effectively end more people coming into the wor...

Gotcha, but wouldn't this be a distraction from the point that injustice can happen whether people view it as a blessing and like it or not?

Yes, now you are getting it.. Know of Schopenhauer's position on the matter? But also, do you see a difference between food that was absolutely always...

Ok, can you just summarize your main point in a simple paragraph then?

Yes I think I've read parts of it long ago.. I believe he is for anarchism of some sort. I still don't think it solves the inescapable work problem. A...

This is just a weirdly veiled ad hominiem on me.. And doubly so here: How is it slothful? What do you even mean? Why does that even matter? Is this re...

Because in one instance (the antinatalist), no new person is put in an unjust (and harmful) situation. In the other instance a new person is put in an...

I'll just answer with what I said to someone else. This doesn't justify unjust positions on someone else's behalf (like putting others in a lifetime o...

This is where I'd disagree then. It seems unjust to put others in a circumstance X whereby X means if they do not do X, they will die or other dire co...

This is simply self-servingly convenient ignorance. That is more accurate. There is no difference if the injustice is caused by the de facto situation...

Is it really veering from what I've described in past posts? Unnecessary Inescapable Other people take more due care The inescapable can further be ex...

Noted, thank you. However, I think it is a human condition. Hunting-gathering or anarchism or communism or whatever non-industiral-capital form won't ...

Stop taking it out of context...

I just wanted to add that even though you don't write much, when you do, I usually enjoy how you elucidate the human predicament. You seem to describe...

:up: Thank you Inyenzi. The same for your posts too.

And in this regard you do seem anti-work in the idea that it is an injustice. Of course, you bring up the larger and deeper existential problem of str...

Sometimes that option is more freeing. Homelessness in this regard must rely on a larger superstructure though. It was still an injustice somewhere do...

Not an excuse to impose on another.. Imagine any injustice done because you think X about a situation.

Inescapable, etc. You can opt out of the surprise party if you really wanted.

Thus "Work" (economic system) is an avoidable, inescapable non-opt-out situation. Thus wrong to put someone into.

I don’t separate the two. Economics is a more complex version of the hunting-gathering economy. Whatever method to get food/resources then I am defini...

The big deal is what you said here: And because it’s from the get go, it is a forced situation. If you don’t work, you’re probably in trouble. Don’t p...