Hey, I commend you for fully answering my OP, so thank you. That was a full response. So it does sound like well-being can never be the only goal.. Th...
Of course.. You realize there are nutballs in every conceivable philosophical-ideological-political group/camp/movement right? I'll consent to the ide...
Agreed agreed. Here is a hefty question.. What makes you think that this isn't a problem solved more by antinatalism than it does by communism? I am n...
Yes I see, you think that by switching it to pessimism that this solves your problems. But it doesn't because of the initial asymmetry.. That is exact...
Sure about what? This is a question to see if what is important is the means of getting economic well-being or the ends that people value more. If eve...
So you are on the side that owning the means of production is the only way to get this equality.. rather than being independent aspects of leftist goa...
A lot of times its nefarious.. Haha, you would have LOVED my thread topic here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12347/a-ceo-deserves-his-rew...
Problem is origination of capital. Not everyone starts equally. Not everyone has the chances to put the resources together. The Marxist would ask, by ...
Just wondering.. can you have a hardworking owner/executive class though? Is it just "hard work" that justifies ownership? That is what this implies.....
I am not putting a value one way or the other right now. I wanted to get other people's values who were left leaning. Is it the idea that communism is...
Yes, that. Ironically.. perhaps aliens don't "exist" because they already figured out antinatalism a long time ago :wink: I have no duty to a natural ...
So you would create harm for this reason? But then, who cares, literally? All that matters is you didn't create unnecessary harm. No one literally car...
No I would not press a button. Ethics is at the individual level. People's consent must be obtained.. If not for an individual, then ethics means noth...
Goods that are not deprived to anyone matter how, exactly? It's just switching the POV as if there is someone, but there is not. Again, no collateral ...
Let's look at why the case is so strong for not creating collateral damage though. On one side of the ledger, collateral damage is created. On the oth...
We've been through this before.. You keep going after the VERY large CEOs and Board of Director types and NOT the small business owner that started ou...
This still means nothing.. Self-evident things are rarely self-evident and you are on a philosophy forum, so not quite playing to the crowd by saying ...
But some of those economists at the edges might say something along the lines of: Capitalism can possibly manage to create more equitable circumstance...
@"StreetlightX" I guess my question then is whether which is more important: Material well-being or ownership of means of production? Sometimes, I thi...
It would be hopeful if the economy moved in this direction. Of course, this only matters for those kind of white collar jobs.. automation for the rest...
Yes, that's exactly what I am trying to figure out. What if capitalism somehow worked itself out such that the working class, the 130,000,000 you are ...
I actually agree with that assessment. But I am giving an example where someone presumes the other person wants something because they themselves want...
Yeah but then I sort of gave the counter.. people's ideas of what they might like can differ.. Thus I would say that lest one is unethical by being un...
The counter to that is that people have different opinions on what is good or bad. Your assumption of good onto someone else could be drastically wron...
We rather not have things done to us.. This can be summarized in a principle: Don't do things to others you wouldn't want done to you.. This "don't wa...
Just wondering, would you be satisfied if everyone were middle class but the only hitch were that there were really really rich people that ran the co...
What does that even mean? But why? From your perspective, who gives a hooey what fringe antinatalists, that passively advocate not procreating, say? I...
Oh how I love it when anti-antinatalists get in a tizzy.. Don't worry bra, your side is still going strong ;). I have way more to gain, and you have a...
So here we have the basic asymmetry at play.. All the things you have been straw manning me are now being used by yourself. No "one" is being used by ...
No man, you are arguing an uphill battle despite you thinking that you have the "Most people" defense on your side. You are defending creating sufferi...
But apparently you don't, because you would agree with the AN conclusion :D. Wrong argument.. "deserve to exists" is about him already existing. And y...
Yes mix. What makes starting unnecessary harm that is non-trivial, lasts a lifetime's worth, and inescapable ever good to start? I'm sorry but because...
Question to you personally: I understand why antinatalists are so passionate about their cause. I am confused more about people such as yourself who a...
No, it is not sensible to cause happiness IF it comes with strings of collateral damage. That is the part you are missing. But WITH collateral damage....
Even on the face of it, this could be wrong. You can have lives that have much more suffering. I am not even making his utilitarian argument. Mine is ...
Right but after acknowledging how I am phrasing it, you go back to the straw man argument. That is to say, this is about the parent making a decision ...
But this isn't the same. You can take that out if you like, I just wanted to make clear that this isn't talking about some future happiness missed, bu...
Yes, you would want that because it makes your argument easier. But I am not adding it.. You don't know where I'm necessarily going with this yet (whi...
No, you were trying to say that I was doing the opposite of those statements with my own statements. All I said was: No collateral damage of harm is t...
Saying this doesn't make it true.. but let's move forward shall we? Yep, I'd agree with that. But that is not how I phrased it, so you are trying to c...
Yes, nice reflective post there. I think this stemmed from a larger issue though, that was touched upon somewhat by a post earlier in this thread: But...
Ok, so states of affairs are important. AND There is no collateral damage in one and there is collateral damage in the other. However, in regards to h...
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