schopenhauer1

Actually that is a major disagreement. A state of affairs where something does not happen, is still an actual state of affairs.

Ok, I'll take that as you agree there is no collateral damage in one and collateral damage in the other. So for the sake of this argument, can we agre...

Sure do.

No, we really do need to agree that in one instance collateral damage is taking place, and in another, it is not. We are not talking about any other c...

Right, that is your argument, I understand. But before we get to why I think that doesn't matter, can we agree on the first?

We are just talking about my major point, which is in one case 1) A state of affairs of collateral damage is taking place. In another 2) A state of af...

I am guessing because of the wink, you do indeed agree. Right?

I am just going to focus on this point, because it is so central. It is a fact, not a value opinion that no collateral damage is taking place. Do we a...

I could have quoted any of this, but this part summarized it well. Yeah, I think you make a good point. You have to have money to make money. This on ...

Right, but you have missed the point for why I am saying this is wrong. 1) Absence of harm is better because there is no collateral damage. No one is ...

This is just an untrue statement. In one case there is collateral damage (someone who exists to be harmed). In the other case, there is NO collateral ...

You are assuming many classrooms can even HAVE this debate. Most are just trying to get by with the worst behavior problems (mainly in inner cities).....

We are always going to be at odds because you don't see the imbalance of this idea: "Preventing" happiness is not a harm, unless there is an actual pe...

I didn't say that. I simply advocate not continuing other existence by passively not procreating. The only thing we the existing can do is commiserate...

Ok, so you are not paying attention to what I am saying again. Because you are mischaracterizing my argument over and over, I'll break it down: This i...

No that's fine.. It's the stringing together the BS that follows this statement I have a problem with so let's see... So you are not paying attention ...

Not on its own. I said that creating "good" comes with the collateral damage of suffering, and that is a problem for your ethical argument. Or more et...

Rational is another slippery use of language. Why isn't it "rational"? I explained how it correlates to no actual person experiencing deprivation of h...

So, I'm not talking about access to political information or even general knowledge on how technology works. But literally be able to make and produce...

This is linguistic nonsense to get around this simple fact: If no one exists, no one suffers. Put a value on that of what you want (good, bad, neutral...

I don’t think ineffably meaningful experiences on its own means anything. It’s not an entity onto itself. If no human exists, there is no person that ...

@"Pantagruel" and @"Ciceronianus" and @"Bitter Crank" The Wikipedia article on Marx' idea of alienation actually does align quite well with what I'm s...

Yes, that is a good way of rephrasing the question. Apparently, this society we are in is supposed to represent that healthy society by people like @"...

Here is also more what I am getting at with the power dynamics thing: It's not that I am anti-technology in the way you think. Rather, it is the conse...

So I am in alignment with what you are saying, but I guess I am looking at it from a different angle than traditional left politics. So I notice that ...

I think you were getting at it with helplessness and no one having full knowledge. You may know this element but not that element. It becomes a rabbit...

I dare say, the "real" is "techne". Everything else is frivolous fluff that gets a ride on the real and is allowed as long as the real gets done first...

I think I agree. But as you say here: The latter can't happen without the former. We need minutia mongering on all fronts. First, we need thought-base...

So my whole argument here is a sort of devil's advocate. I started another thread perhaps truer to my own philosophy.. that the fact that we don't und...

Absolutely.. This is a known insidious outcome of targeted algorithms. It's hard to stop, like a merry-go-round because they know your likes better th...

In a way yes. I did relate back to power dynamics. I think there is something about having the means to produce an important item for someone else and...

It's the fact that the lords hold the knowledge and means to produce the things we need.. That is real power. There is more power in being the produce...

I saw it, and it is good. But that is just the consumer side of it. It is more like, the deficit of those who use and those who produce the technology...

I just think there is a huge power differential regarding the people that know the technology and those that just consume it. I think it is this that ...

Very true.

Not sure what you mean, but we have produced all the minutia.. The minutia which sustains..

May I ask what your role is specifically? Right, and then they don't even know how that cup was made or the chair they sit on.. and back to square one...

Technology commands us.. We consume it, and yet we don't know it. There is at least some form of power dynamics that comes from being excluded from th...

Good point..even our own basis of life is hidden to some extent. However, unlike natural causes, technology is man-made and yet it eludes most men, th...

I would imagine our cultural evolution is part of what makes our species survive, so that seems to make sense.

Yes this! You are very close to what I'm trying to say.. But there is something even more troubling than it being pathetic and repulsive to not be abl...

No, this isn't ridiculous.. There does seem to be a tier that knows more.. But even they only know more in their specialty. It would be very hard for ...

Yep, certainly in a practical sense, not knowing how a technology works, relies you to trust what others know... It is still beyond that. It is more t...

I don't know, that's what I am trying to find out haha. Think of it as a concept that is sort of on the tip of your tongue but haven't quite narrowed ...

I've said also mentioned it in an earlier comment here: 1) We use technology and items that we have no idea how they work. We are a forever behind the...

@"Maw" @"Xtrix" Right, but what about these type of things? Not real? : https://www.fundera.com/blog/business-success-stories The story of electricity...

Independent sources of capital were always a part of it. It’s still in the early phases before someone gets a return. People need the capital infusion...

I can't win. I mentioned private ownership of capital the first time.. But yes, Xtrix already covered what I think you were going to mention. So I pos...

Ok, so these more-or-less correspond to commanding heights of the economy.. i.e. utilities, raw materials, construction, large technology companies, e...

Occam's Razor here.. "Why have you forsaken, me?" was a person trying to claim the role as messiah, thinking he was actually going to succeed in some ...