schopenhauer1

Boy this is getting tiresome pointing out the obvious, isn't it? Ha He has a problem with the idea that the term "imposing" can include turning X into...

So I've seen you still have a misunderstanding of what consequentialism means and deontology. Deontology can be ABOUT actions ("consequences").. All a...

This is more sophistry around the word consequences. Consequentialism, basically looks at how good or bad the consequences are of an action. Deontolog...

Why does this matter? The gametes are set into motion to be a person.. At the time the person becomes a person THAT is the imposition.. As you said, d...

This is as bullshit a sophistry as I've seen in a while...This goes up there with medieval apologetics... Do you believe that a person can be caused t...

From years of discussing antinatalism on this forum, I will say that people only believe in possibility as a condition when it suits them. If talking ...

Not sure why you think that, but ok.

That's a lot of E.M. Cioran.. Ever read him?

It forces something to happen to someone and what is forced is significant, etc. etc.. That's all that matters in this argument.

Excellent points.. I was going to write something similar, but this is better.

I would never wriggle out of that, because I wouldn't claim it. I'm not a utilitarian consequentialist. I don't think "the greatest good" is a good ar...

You caused to occur someone to exist who didn’t previously. You proved nothing except you can create lots of sophistic nonsense. While amusing, exhaus...

This is R-I-D-I-C-U-L-O-US! What a rhetorical con! I can't believe you have reverted to this argument rather than move forward with whether it is okay...

Causing people to be is the moral problem if it leads to X, Y, Z negatives.. That is the argument at hand but you are the one constantly changing it t...

Doesn't matter. You caused a soldier to be. Without you, no soldier.

It is that there was a state of affairs thus that you made a soldier. It doesn't matter what the previous state was.

:rofl: .. Really? This is your argument? That conceiving a child to birth takes 9 months and that there is a period between conception and birth, this...

Oh this is pedantic. An action led to a person existing. That person existing has entailed necessary conditions. It's probably the same argument you a...

You haven't thought enough or at all about it? Or have come up with no answer?

I notice you don't answer my questions. Not a great way to dialogue.. and sort of unfair to me who is trying to do one.

I already answered:

Good points. If you like the flow states and the pleasures that come from the obstacle course, that's great. 1) Does it actually last for a lifetime, ...

Your implication is we need to create people so that they can be happy. If every life was an individualized utopia, you would have solid ground. It ob...

Look, I'll give you a secret about my antinatalism, that isn't really a secret if you pay attention to my whole corpus (which I don't expect you to :)...

Really? I thought it was about right action? You are putting a spin on it such that of course, antinatalism would thus never be "ethical".. If ethics ...

I'll ease off here because at the end you did say: So, in recognition of this, I'll respect that you agree to disagree. I have no problem with that. I...

Haha.. What does that even matter? It isn't but why do you think that makes a point? Big Lebowski or something? Great movie, by the way.

So if you knew that that life would suffer in X amount (for you unreasonably).. Should that not be considered? You would normally say yes (but maybe n...

There are reasons people want to procreate.. whether or not they are ethical.. Understood and can agree if stated in those terms. But once you say, TH...

Oh and it's not anti-joy. A life full of joy is better than a life bereft of joy. Creating a life, that will definitely impose on someone and create i...

If you believe something is not ethical because of X, Y, and Z, why would that not be something one should have a philosophical position on? Because y...

You may have something there... However, I don't think natalism should THUS be considered as somehow at a future point, these things will be figured o...

It's anti-suffering. Saving a life in your care, and starting a life are two different things. You are equivocating to make a point.. But it's out-of-...

Thanks for the shoutout, Jerry! I'm glad you saw some value there. As Schopenhauer once said: I think he was onto something.

It is imposing the state of affairs that entails that necessary condition. How is it not?

Indeed, I wonder if it is a post-facto excuse for justifying the fact that life entails work, and thus if work isn't meaningful then much of what sust...

Absolutely, I was thinking the same thing. Agreed. Yes, I think you got at what’s going on here. And I understand your frustration. It does seem like ...

Red-herring.. I am talking about the considerations of someone in the future that isn't born yet. Lava pit baby and humans being born in general are a...

Nothing about what I was talking about though. HAHAHHAHA :rofl: Why? What is your modus operendi? Why would people ever give up their time for somethi...

You’re overlooking what I’m saying for a straw man that you want me to say. I’m not taking about reverting to a hunting gathering society simply by cr...

Homer explains it best: https://youtu.be/A81DYZh6KaQ You cannot decouple the two. You can do things because you absolutely want to or because it bring...

And we all monger the minutia.. pay the price.. put our attention on the details. Laud the details. Laud the minutia-mongers.. Counting the beans, cre...

Either you don't know Schopenhauer, or you don't know how I am applying it thusly to the economic sphere. Which is it? Will in Schop is an insatiable ...

The beginning of man. The self-destruct was there from the start. When man first demanded something and needed a supply of it. When someone supplied t...

The market place is like Schopenhauer's Will playing out in an endless cycle of "supply" and "demand" eating each other, as you say- like the ouroboro...

Why do these quotes oddly cheer me up :lol:?

This is ridiculous. Now you are going to deny the idea of conditionals (things that COULD very well happen if you acted upon it?). Odd thing to deny. ...

Maybe you are misunderstanding it? It is meant that there is a counterfactual that COULD have happened (Someone could NOT bring about Y state of affai...

Twisting of how language works... Conditions X are a necessity of Y state of affairs. Someone brought about Y state of affairs for someone else, which...

And I've argued and counterargued back, so? These are the kind of statements that can be said on both sides against the opposing view. What? Procreati...