schopenhauer1

How does this not avoid the homunculus fallacy though? The ghost is already in the machine. That is the very thing to be explained though. It's too "j...

Yes in the ball park. Ok. With you there... Ok, so here is where it kind of takes a left turn. I just don't know what else to say to this. I guess I c...

It's off the topic of human operation I was proposing in the OP. The "break" I was referring to with the rest of nature. It wasn't necessarily about m...

I wonder what the "trouble" is if the other monkeys found out about the deceptive monkey. Do they have punishment?

Yes.. "Personality", "Preference", "Anxiety" seems to fit some basic "causes" that we often provide narratives (reasons) for. And all of these layers....

Exactly. No no, your end goal "simply be" description there is off. That is not what I meant. Think more like your first paragraph of what the animal'...

I think that's my whole point though. We don't have access to being (I'll just equate it to "The Tao" for now). If we have to "get there" and it "isn'...

But one we can't follow, by definition of our human operation, hence my OP.

And thus the juxtaposition with the projects (project?) of the enterprise(s). You can't go back, you can only go forward. Going forward is engaging wi...

I wonder when we finally get hip to collective ennui...Perhaps the AI will give us time. Modern projects- science and technology, economic blue, pink,...

:smirk:

Look at the part about the paradox...

Haha, I like this. It is underhandedly criticizing :smirk:. You are rebuking Paul's main argument against the Law (of Moses), and rightfully so, becau...

But other animals can't/don't say/think/conceptualize I need stuff or I die. They just do and survive. And there we are a being who has "reasons".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Messiah

I won't let you escape that easily.. Zapffe's paradox... It was the Shakers.

Yes. Who are you to decide for another that non-paradisical existence is thus good in itself or for that person?

How about instead.. It is purported science and technology in themselves provides meaning. And thus, the modern man puts more people into the world, o...

It is the ultimate why in the flesh. It compresses all existential dithering into an immediate presentation to the consumer of existence, and asks, "B...

Indeed, it's that Zapffe paradox again. No, it's the opposite. It calls into question the whole enterprise, especially the violence, aggression, and u...

More information and application of information for varieties of outputs, and? Any value put on this becomes suspect as a whole range of assumptions i...

A classic. Ok Green Flag, I'm going to give you three concepts. I'd like you to string them together: Science (and technology), minutia-mongering, mea...

There is too much existence. Schopenhauer might have had the notion here: Has anyone ever had the feeling of a sort of emptiness or ennui? Science and...

Sure, I agree with that. I think I acknowledged all of these underlying desires (both social and "pleasure-based") here: and then here: So basically I...

Yes. As an adult human, fully formed with the self-aware bit, there comes an extra layer of reasoning that is a break from the rest of nature. That is...

Ah yes, I believe that's Socrates, no? You are sticking your fingers in your ears to not engage.. This is magnificent philosophy discourse.

Aim for? I don't know about that pre-lingual. We do things and learn from them sure. Aiming for is a bit of a stretch. We have targets for our desires...

Ahh, glad you are coming at this with good faith and seeing where this goes. Anyways, the point is that you have a narrative of why you clean the dish...

How do you know that? Is that a concept you learned or are you born knowing about how to clean dishes and its association with cooking foods?

So you are changing the subject. I am not talking about fairness right now. Why do you do the dishes even if you don't like it?

Why is "it's just how the world works" connected with you doing a job you would not want to do, but doing it despite not wanting to do it?

Exactly, and you are LITERALLY displaying the point I am making in real time.

Well there is a substratum of some determinism there as acknowledged in my OP. Here I said:

Motivation, as in why you continue to do something you might not otherwise want to do. The thing is, you are going to claim you have never done someth...

We've been through this before. You tend to conflate what animals do and what humans do, and I don't even want to bother pointing out the difference i...

So my theory, along with Zapffe's, is more about our essential "break" with nature. We use narratives/fictions to create reasons which give us motivat...

Granted, I just think it's a matter of defining the terms and making sure we are not playing language games- Wittgenstein stuff. It's philanthropic be...

Sentimental and then providing a whole ethic to justify action for it, are two different things. Writing a poem about and then taking very serious act...

Your claim about human experience. Very broad.

Well, when you make broad statements with no reasoning behind it, kind of makes sense then that I would do that with just a claim without support.

This itself is so value-laden and personal in its opinion, that it self-refutes the earlier point here: So rather, it is actually quite a "rational" r...

You might like this: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14172/a-simple-theory-of-human-operation/p1

This fits into my thread here: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/14164/existentialism-vs-personality-types Perhaps your choices are constraine...

Interesting question and indeed in the vein of what I am asking. Good stuff. Pulling this back a bit, I find this phenomenon strange that we are a cre...

Creating more life is scarier, Sisyphean, and more ever-present than the "spectre of death". But that being said, if you are in your deathbed, actuall...

You'd have to unpack this a bit for me to comment...

Haha, nice little ditty.

Yet some people anchor more than others... That they take on the given values to "get the thing done". Others do not do this as easily. Is this natura...

Haven't read much of him, but have indeed heard of Leopardi. Also, I would consider my own worldview as informed by philosophical pessimism. That is t...

Well, this is also akin to Schopenhauer's idea of the artist or artistic genius seeing the Forms and presenting them in an objective way via the mediu...