schopenhauer1

It's that they place value on goals in the first place. Nothing is really determined. We don't have to be motivated by anything, but we CHOOSE to. we ...

But it doesn't have the ability to know otherwise. THAT is the difference. We know we don't have to conjure up meaning, but we do. Or perhaps, we cann...

The fact that we need perspective at all is telling.

I agree. Much of what we do is out of emotions like boredom and loneliness (akin to boredom). Only after the fact, we justify with something like, "to...

It’s not about lying to yourself about feelings. Its lying to yourself that there’s anything more meaningful to pursue other than the value we conjure...

Look at the bird example in my first post. What is the difference between what motivates a bird and a human?

The deception is that there is any determined reason we are doing anything. Rather we conjure preferences and build goals around this to impose stabil...

But this gets to the heart of what I'm talking about. Even the preferences we have for the things we "like" comes from somewhere. I mentioned the monk...

Good points. The problem is the subject's relation to the world "demands" certain things by subtle social programming. Survival is had by the subject'...

On the surface, it may seem this way, but that is incorrect. The decision is made by an existing person who is comparing something-that-does-not-exist...

That's a false dichotomy. Rather, the question is, is it good/right/fair to create a new person in the first place, under any circumstance. You say th...

Also don't forget, more productivity and markets brings more variety. People generally forgo a lot of stuff for just the right pair of such and such.

Granted, yet states with command economies run far short as well- think Eastern Europe by the 1980s. The problem is focus on productivity doesn't nece...

And what of the tropes that market economies bring about more efficient avenues for increased productivity?

So what do you think was his goal in his works? What does a better society for Marx look like? Also, this doesn't get rid of the actual problem which ...

So Marx' solution is to have the state own property so that values return to use value rather than profit value? I am not inherently against or for an...

Is this a brute fact of Ciceronianus’ judgement? Why don’t you accept the argument? All things being equal, no “one” loses out on existence. Do you th...

Structural suffering If part of life is lacking something, and we are almost always lacking something. Life is about satiating that lack. If lacking s...

Long story short, it is wrong to create a state of affairs where you would be creating the burdens of existence for a new person. The consolation of "...

Those are all good ideas :D. Bake sales would be included. Philosophical pessimism can be sexy, ironically. I bet you are imagining a pp meeting to be...

Politics are also about making existential statements. Conservatives and libertarians might consider voting for a conservative legislator or executive...

Not comparable, eating and reproduction. Eating is a necessity, reproduction is voluntary. @"Bitter Crank" should know that too. It is not a default. ...

So reproduction is necessary to take care of the elderly? It seems that would just increase the cycle and make a bad thing worse. You increase the pro...

It would be a local contingent, like that of community activists, meetup groups, online groups, things like that.

Start a community that sees life in this way. You see, one really interesting bit about the political aspect of this is that, de facto, you are a smal...

Here are some thoughts: Being "thrown into existence" is a political act, whether it is overtly stated that way or not by the parent. That is to say, ...

What is the criteria for “works” though? Could an output of transcendental stupidity be said to “work”?

It is the ability to specialize in extremely minute points of math/science/engineering. Further, I claimed those who are most valued and de facto "nee...

I like this framework.. makes sense. Interesting point. And I tend to agree with your analysis here about those who tend towards the big-thinking and ...

Yes all problems come from being born in the first place- including whether to commit suicide. There is no off switch, sleep being the closest thing. ...

Yes, this turning away from the world is valueless for society though, no? They are navel-gazers. Their very existence is due to someone else's intric...

Here's a more concrete question for you, BC: What would incline one person to be a monkish ascetic and meditate for 12 hours a day, focusing on "nothi...

Learn to be content meditating 12 hour a day since the goods of life represent what we have not now.

But that's my point, what is the aim of life in general? We survive in a cultural setting, get bored, and find ways to entertain ourselves. You can cr...

Well, I am saying there is no need to procreate more people. Any scheme is bad for the person who is born in the first place.

Just don't have people that need to be socialized. What's the point? It is self-refuting to try to devise a mechanism/scheme for happiness for more ne...

No choice- we need minutia mongerers. Besides the bad spelling, the phenomenology is fine in the title I think. It is there to indicate the POV of the...

Again, it is not about wallowing. There is a lack at the root of things. We need homeostasis, we need entertainment (which I define broadly). Yes ever...

I don't really know what you're trying to say. I characterize it more as rebellion rather than mere acceptance. This is perhaps why I thought your cri...

I don't know. There may be a sense of consolation in pessimism. Sometimes, I get a bit giddy reading an author explain the situation that is life in a...

Again, you make the error of looking for some sort of results. This is the very intraworldly affairs that a PP would most likely not consider to be in...

So one main theme in pessimism is that at root, in either human nature, animal nature, or the nature of existence itself, we are in a constant state o...

No one denies there is good someone can experience. That is not the point of pessimism. The point is the suffering of the lack that is always in the e...

Again, scornful characterizations of my arguments are not going to get you anywhere in this debate. Do you think of it as some sort of call to arms.. ...

Again incredibly obnoxious...Why would engage someone that just provokes..even to make a point? Are you trying to troll me into having a drawn out nam...

The basis to start the conversation would be charity. You don't have that, no use even engaging. Take lessons from Bitter Crank.. Get better at disagr...

Your way of provoking through dismissive pragmatism is not very philosophical. Look in thine own mirror.

Ironic

:grin: I like that reference. Excellent point! This is really where I'm getting at. This is why I put "phenomenology" in the title. WHO is the person....

This can be answered in two ways: The intraworldly approach might say it leads to antinatalism- don’t reproduce more suffering and that it leads to so...