schopenhauer1

Understandable. I like Schopenhauer obviously, but I don't necessarily buy into his metaphysics, though I think his conclusions are pretty spot on. I ...

You I think this should be explored. The notion that science is useful, makes it better in some value or axiological sense. I welcome any ideas relati...

Well, yes and no. My main point there is that helping people is not the end in itself. Helping people so they can then pursue other goals outside of h...

Funny you mention suicide, I just wrote a bit about why actually committing suicide is a problem. It is rather living with the ideation of suicide tha...

You seem to hitting upon the well-trodden concept of absurdity :smile: . I sometimes call this concept "instrumentality". That is to say, we do to do ...

Yes, a suffering conundrum in itself. The very thing that is going to give "relief" (death), also deprives you of the experience of the "relief" itsel...

I think you are assuming that I think people who don't agree with antinatalism have bad intent. I don't necessarily think that. Rather, as you are sor...

Again, that is Benatar's point that there is a difference in decisions related to starting a life and continuing a life. There are different considera...

I thought most utilitarian ethical formulas were consequential not primarily intent-driven? Anyways, AN sort of bypasses all of this. If no one is bor...

Benatar does a good job separating ethical decisions related to starting a life vs. continuing a life. He sees these two decision matrix as requiring ...

This "should" seems a moot point in light of the fact that in the case of whether to procreate someone, that person doesn't need to exist in the first...

Ok. If a moderator thinks it belongs there, I’m fine with it.

Profound boredom is akin to world-weariness. It’s like things are on repeat and no novelty gets rid of the feeling. I think it is a baseline emotional...

Yes this would be my response but you already stated it. :up:

I like the use of "suck it up" here..you hear that so much in various direct and indirect ways. Just another value to be enculturated from social cues...

There are just certain undesirable tasks for the individual. One has to get through this somehow. This can be taking on values to lower the dislike fo...

It doesn't really matter- the outcome is about the same. Disliking and coping with it. Disliking and KNOWING that we dislike, and then having to be ha...

Yes, again a lot off stress on the individual.

Indeed I do. Your "aim" seems to be a bit elusive, but I am sure it has something to do with species-survival through group enculturation and values. ...

But it is the individual who is actually experiencing the stress, harm, and negative experiences. To broaden awareness is again more coping strategies...

That's great and all said objectively and with a scientific style, but being the actual human that goes through this "dialectical vector of human beco...

I think a larger point here is that values, habituation into certain values, and other cultural norm are more important to human survival than people ...

I'm not sure how to answer your question. Can you phrase it differently or elaborate?

Yes, interviews, anxiety over uncertainty, etc. True enough, but I contend it is a choice, just weighing one less shitty (but still shitty thing) agai...

Fine and dandy, but only humans employ it this. You are missing the forest for the trees. The outcome is whatever the outcome is to our own selves. No...

I don't believe that animals even know they like or dislike something over and on top of the primary emotion they feel. So, they may enjoy a type of b...

Another value you are taking on :). Albeit a common one.

Yep it does. That's what I'm driving at- not the nuances to the degree of less complex reflection. I don't see it as much as degree as you do. I certa...

Right and that taking on the value comes from a lot of sources. It doesn't happen in a vacuum. Again, all things we take on.. It is a choice, though s...

I am of the belief that most other animal species cannot reflect and evaluate whether they like or dislike their current emotional state and then, hav...

Ha, birds got the better deal when you put it that way. There is a reason I have a bird as my avatar. But I would say unless this is tongue-in-cheek, ...

Yes I can agree with this but again, this goes to my point. We are the animal that weighs things and takes on values. We don't just "do the job of gar...

This is conflating two separate phenomenon. Evaluating the sound of a threat is not the same as evaluating an idea. Then he is overmining the term. No...

Right, I'm not arguing it isn't multi-dimensional, but that we take on values that can override the dislike a task. You named a few examples right the...

I mean, these are valid points, but I don't see how they challenge my main point here. 1) We can KNOW that we don't like doing certain things at a cer...

So when they say self-reflection, are they talking about the ability to evaluate whether they like doing a certain task and then doing it anyways beca...

Yes, we call that instinct- something hardwired in genetics/brain responses/behaviors. It is not abstracted into cultural concepts called "values" tha...

That's fine, but this describes the different techniques I'm talking about. Animals don't even think on that level, but humans have to deal with conce...

Excellent choice. I just think of spreadsheets and traffic. It doesn't give me joy.

I don't get it.

Although there are some parallels, I think you are overselling it. Humans have the capacity for a full-fledged language system. This allows for all so...

Again, all of this comes down to the point where we have to do stuff ancillary to the work itself, to get the work done. We are the only species that ...

Perhaps some people don't self-reflect that much. I guess this is for the people who know they don't like doing the work they are doing. I refuse to b...

To do something in the first place (if we don't like it?). I don't think so. Give me a scenario where we start doing something we don't like WITHOUT a...

I don't think a bird feels the ennui of a boring day, despite their abilities for problem solving which I agree are very impressive, but makes sense i...

I think you missed the point of the question. It is about how it is we buy into doing something we don't like doing. I know it sounds "simple", but it...

Well the question was generally how as self-reflective creatures we can still do something we didn't like while we were doing it. I thought it an inte...

I'm not going to scour internet sources and libraries for your question any more than you probably will. But is there a notion that people think that ...

Can you prove that people don't besides yourself? Is your evidence Tom, Dick, and Sally? Well, Joe, Bob, Suzy, and Liz beg to differ. Brian and Barry ...

Oh you know Joe, Bob, Suzy, Liz, Brian, and Barry. Yep, I'd agree. Someone will exist who will suffer. It is not happening to an actual person in the ...