schopenhauer1

Like any ethical debate, it comes down to first principles. If you don't believe forcing others to do things is wrong, then this argument would not ma...

And this is the heart of the hubris here. Who is to say who knows best? And why does procreation from a loving parent get to be THE decision of what i...

Let me back up because I know what's coming next.. Children need adults to decide for them thus "forcing them". This is different, however. The force ...

But this is your principle. Why should this be forced on anyone?

I think it generally contradictory that most people generally agree about non-aggression about property, rights, physical violence, and otherwise, but...

Healthy upbringing, happiness, or otherwise, why does that trump non-aggression?

So we have two ideas here: non-aggression principle, pursuit of happiness. In this variation of it, I would identify non-aggression as not imposing on...

How does being born not have to do with your parents?

That's not the antinatalist argument. Rather it is that existence has harm and by introducing new people, you ar e creating new experiences of harm. A...

The person didn't know beforehand. The person happens to not mind the stealing. I still say that action is wrong. It's the height of arrogance to assu...

Any quotes? I think you might be relating this to his idea of beyond good and evil and eternal return.

Correct. They are misguided as they are using "the pursuit of happiness" as an excuse to justify violating the non-aggression principle (not forcing o...

I'm using them not as a template against the very notion of existence, but as an example of how people will justify forcing someone (violating the non...

I agree, but this does not stop people from thinking that "pursuing happiness" is a principle people should be forced into pursuing by procreation. Yo...

Indeed, I think procreation violates a principle of non-aggression. Oddly, borrowing from the political discourse of the libertarian right (non-aggres...

Yes, but this argument will come to a standstill based on first principles. From what I remember, you don't have any prescriptive ethics. So, if someo...

Really good post, Baden! We need more instructive posts like this as a good model. I do have one objection though when applying it to philosophical mu...

Is physical health the only standard to judge weather to procreate? I know that's the knee jerk response and popular opinion, but 0erhaps there are mo...

If we are social creatures, it's about propaganda.

Is this question for me?

Was this for me? Anyways, suffering won't be an issue for the non-born. Also, no person would exist in this scenario to even be deprived. Win/win. Lif...

Yes, but I'd go further and say procreation is always bad no matter what socioeconomic circumstance. Something is not always or even ever better than ...

If we are to debate philosophically, the OP is about whether it is good to bring new people into the world. Why is human life assumed to be good enoug...

Yes this is very much something I would say and agree with, which is why I ask. That shouldn't be a surprise though.

Please explain..

Then what are they? How do you justify that it is "natural" and not just a cultural or personal preference?

So this is a good point. I think category 3 in the OP is equivalent to psychologically abstract preferences (like beauty, accomplishment, friendship, ...

Yes this is very much a key part of my point. Even something as "natural-seeming" as procreation may be just culturally-derived but individually chose...

Yes, this is like what Isaac said. "Typical" in that species can be rife with social cues that are not genetic in origin, but socially learned, but so...

So this is close to the hard-to-define 3 that I was examining. I think definitions like this are hard to pinpoint to "typical manner". How does one di...

It's a matter of right epistemic judgment on what is mean. I dont see causing undue pain as necessary.

Intent

Again, trying to be mean to someone isn't the "fault" of the person its targeted to. There can be mutually exclusive things going on a) the aggressor ...

No I get what you were saying, but I was saying earlier that helping someone "protect" against perceived meanness, doesn't exempt the mean person for ...

I see what you are saying. This has more to do with what is consciousness? If a consciousness does not have the physical components to manifest a cons...

So are you bringing up epistemic arguments that since there is no arbiter of how intense or persistent the mean person is actually being, it becomes u...

I would also direct you to my last comment.

Yes, this would be a straw man. Because some people overreact all mean acts are exempt? That just sounds fishy. Rather, a more reasonable line of thin...

What do you think here? https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/339794

So a couple things: 1) When is a republican democracy (or any lip service to that) considered completely dead? a) When a president can ask for dirt on...

Re I said basis but not the whole story. Also mentioned duration and intensity.

I find it unfortunate when harm is intended towards people, and undesirable. I tend to think that harm is a basis for morality. We cannot help but har...

This goes along with that I believe that these two sentiments taken together can be construed as saying that man is the measure of things. It has waft...

But I don't think any life is free of unavoidable conditions. What if just surviving in general is bad, in ANY manner- Robinson Crusoe, advanced post-...

What do you want from me? I said what I personally thought about the guy's style. To me, he didn't engender warm feelings. I value arguments where you...

Yes, agreed.

Yes, I never said he should be banned but constant assholiness engenders nothing to no one and ya know, asshole is what asshole does. But interestingl...

S crossed the line into troll too many times. Every attack from him seemed like he was personally offended by any argument he disagreed with. He used ...

I think we can parse out offensive speech and being mean to a particular person.. For example, I don't see anything wrong with comics that are offensi...

I also don't consider thoughts immoral either (although if someone provides some clear examples of how it is, I may change that notion). However, bein...