schopenhauer1

This is morally relevant. If I launch a rocket launcher at someone, surely they will be affected. I believe that would be relevant being that in futur...

But all the same, that child will be affected once that future X time happens.

This is correct. It is amazing that many people dont understand this concept that you dont have to exist prior to a certain point to be harmed ONCE yo...

The basic gist of the Benatarian version of the antinatalist argument is thus: Not procreating prevents suffering which is good. Not procreating preve...

Fine, I'm using it in my own way. I'll let you call it anything you want it helps you move past this god awful semantic argument. Right right, cause i...

I take the Rawls Veil of Ignorance approach. Here is a summary of his argument: Thus, just because I don't think that political theory is completely b...

Even if we were to allow the NAP to say that it is okay to not get vaccinated, the NHP would still be in force that we shouldn't allow for the conditi...

First, I think you can make sharp distinctions between government and individual ethics. This is why I'd never call myself a "libertarian". Second, ho...

Unless you are trying to straw man my argument, by mischaracterizing it, why wouldn't you abide by the non-aggression principle? I've already said how...

Well, as I've said, I am not specifically channeling Kant. Rationality is used in many ways by many philosophers. I don't use it because I think it ha...

Close, there are exceptions I admitted in this thread for reasons of either autonomy being limited or about to be violated (elderly, coma patients, ch...

You make two statements that don't seem to have much relation with each other. One is an insignificant but noted objection of my semantics (ethics vs....

It all follows from the idea of not violating autonomy. You don't assume others want to be harmed or forced. What follows is the NAP and the NHP (non-...

More-or-less yes.

I think this is very plausible. However, I can also envision a more social reason for language origins vs. the purely mental exaptation described by C...

It's only Kantian or deontological in the sense that it is about a duty to a principle that considers the person qua person and not as utility to be m...

Yes, I agree with this. In the context of this thread, the argument is that positive ethics should not unduly override negative ethics. That is to say...

I don't conceive negative ethics to necessarily be utilitarian. The version I discuss isn't, in fact. If anything it can be characterized as denotolog...

I do find this debate fascinating. Language and the evolution of language specifically, has always been a fascinating subject to me. You defend the Ch...

It's always been game over. We just kept breeding and blindly keeping it all going.

But it does amount to growth-through-adversity.. Another model of this. Think your model through and once you start explaining it, oh yeah, it does ju...

First off, you're not freakn Yoda or Buddha, or some wise sage, so please stop pretending to be on a perch of wisdom about collaboration vs. my ignora...

I gave you the three outcomes: Coordinated distribution - Best one..least death Everyone-for-themselves- Worst one..most death Hierarchy-of-Access- No...

Hey, you never addressed my last post! You are making a straw man of work-as-virtue. Labor is only virtuous under an economic model. That is it. This ...

You said that but then you said this: There is the game then. Learning from mistakes is part of it. In other threads I've called it "growth-through-ad...

Unenlightened, anything social/societal is a form of ideology. What do you WANT society to threaten (de facto or by force) people to do? Right now, th...

So with labor gone, social relations would change. Think Star Trek or some other sci-fi scenario or historical one. Hunting-gatherers don't have the s...

There are none currently. As you so elucidated.

So thus we get to place people in a game in non-optimal conditions for the individual. That is just proving my point about placing people in a game be...

Thus says the person who forces the other person into the game...Blithely ignorant. These are forces out of our control. To believe otherwise is overd...

So your solution to the possibility of not owning the robots is to give us the ability to work more? I'm just trying to understand your end game. I me...

I see so this is about leverage of economic power. I actually thought that right as I sent my previous post, but still think the post stands on its ow...

But who cares. The economy is an abstraction- not an entity that values or doesn't value. Anyways, if people are mainly valuable by the work they do, ...

People can lack awareness of something. I didn't doubt that. The point was to try to not cause harm. That is all. I am not denying that some people mi...

I cant disagree with you more here if you agree with this "orthodoxy". If value is based on labor, it implies that people are simply looked at as util...

So Trump wrote a letter to Pelosi today. He says that Impeachment is a very ugly word :lol:. Is that supposed to be written in a four-year old voice? ...

Benatar brings up the idea of starting an existence versus continuing an existence. Continuing existence has a different threshold than starting one. ...

By the way, for those interested in a decent summary of David Benatar's Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence, please see this ...

So you take my words out of context now. ALL harm onto another person that would be harmed otherwise. Period. The goal is not end of existence. The go...

ALL harm for any future progeny can be prevented. Unless you don't have a concept of a future or a person that CAN be born into that future, I don't s...

Okay, you seem to be yourself very conflicted. I don't know what to say to that. I agree with your sentiments that people can collaborate in other way...

I am okay with that. Preventing harm to someone is all that matters. Anything else is rhetorical nonsense and is trying to find strawmen and red herri...

It's all about the margins. You are not in charge of existence as a whole, just what you are able to do as an agent. You are able to prevent harm for ...

Agreed. Most antinatalists are not straight-up (and to me insane) "Greatest Good" utilitarians. There is a deontological (Kantian) element of not usin...

We agreed that it revolves around autonomy of the individual being violated. The negative ethics revolves around that.. Why not just have a child for ...

No, since you were an autonomous person who mistakenly slept on the train, that was in your side of the court. If, however, you had no choice and some...

Parents conceive and birth children- check. When something is conceived and birthed, someone becomes born- check. Only conception and birth from the p...

C'mon Possibility. This is semantic tit-for-tat that I expect from other posters wanting to go down rabbit-holes. If you create the conditions for som...

If the child comes into the universe and upon the millisecond of their arrival, the child was punched in the face, and it is well known that upon birt...

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sees this.