schopenhauer1

Yes, this goes along with point 3 in my theory. However, I think this gets less tenuous as you went more North and East in away from the big Roman cit...

@"Olivier5"@"Gus Lamarch" So as a path to an answer, I would say we can start somewhere in the reign of Charlemagne and the beginning of the "Holy Rom...

An interesting question I had a while back was what are the major differences between the Germanic tribes of the Lombards, Vandals, Saxons, Franks, et...

Added more there. Notice in the OP:

I dont think animals displaying empathy is the same as existential dread. Theres a lot of equivocating and I think there are whole areas of cognition,...

It would be the same reason for anybody- not to unnecessarily create the conditions for necessary and contingent suffering which will inevitably befal...

Again, this debate of animal communication is not really the debate I am having. Can a chimp discuss the details of Kant's view of metaphysics, or whe...

Woeful anthropomorphizing. Bears might get "bored", but to compare a bears' boredom to ours would be to not take into account what makes one species "...

See, that's where I think you went off on the wrong track. The premise never stated anywhere a claim about the ability of animals to reason. I did say...

Using people to get to this far off better place, which may never actually be anyways, is not moral. Yet not procreating a new person does harm to no ...

It is evident when thought through, but that doesn't mean it is instantly recognizable. There is a difference. This seems just ad hominem. I actually ...

Well that's good that you are not one of the ones who say "We need pain to justify our existence" or some such. If life is the diabolical maze, then s...

Also very well-stated. Not much more to add.

:up: Not much more to say to this, as it makes the point well. Yes.

I guess I didn't mention you, but I said earlier: Also, I think your indignation is inappropriate here. I'm not sure why I'm a "speciest" because I re...

Further, it is seemingly sociopathic to want to see "overcoming pain" carried out by another.

Yes! :up: . But yet people talk in these terms all the time.. "No pain, no gain"; "Life is only worth living when overcoming something painful" yadaya...

@"MSC"@"RogueAI"@"Sir2u"@"Caldwell"@"praxis"@"JerseyFlight" I'm not necessarily "for the button" being an answer. The button would have to be able to ...

So my definition of necessary suffering is being deprived, usually based on things related to survival, comfort, entertainment. If somehow, we lived i...

Gee it's me, the evil antinatalist.. I sense trolling :roll:

I tend to see pleasure the way dukkha does here: That being said.. that's how I'd feel about the machine.. However, I have said before that a utopia w...

Yes, it is a group-think which reinforces sentiments to keep people in-line. "We all think this antinatalism business is ridiculous right??".. "Yes, w...

Yep, good way to phrase it. Yep. Deprivation of good, does not matter unless there is someone that actually exists to be deprived. Only once a person ...

Again, coming in with guns blazin.. But it was also discounting the fact that two people can have the same views on something controversial, and not r...

To extend the point so as not to go down rabbit-holes.. I also recognize animals may have preferences. For example, wanting to be in the shade on a ho...

So I think my response to Sir2u applies here:

So as I was saying with MSC, I recognize that there are capacities in other animals that make them well suited to surviving in their environment. They...

What I said here I guess: No, I wasn't saying "bow to me for my many posts", but that it was rather brazen of you to just join the forum, and then acc...

Well thank you, I'm glad that a newbie has accepted me as me and not some other in a forum I have contributed 4.3 thousand comments to :razz: . It jus...

To indulge this tangent- I still think there is a difference in the language-use/function in a human vs. animal. Generally we are using it to communic...

Did you not read here when I said: I thought that took care of the exact type of arguments you were trying to make. The argument is not about animal c...

@"Zn0n" @"MSC" For the record, no Zn0n and I are not the same person. I don't know who he/she is, but it's nice to have company for once that understa...

What's ironic is MSC reminds me of an old poster, S/Sapentia who used to flame and troll all the time. Very hostile. Hard to have a respectable conver...

Ha.. Just a cardinal and a keyboard here :). Peck, peck peck...

Because you totally ignored or didn't understand what I was getting at, and this is huge tangent that I wasn't even trying to debate... I just don't c...

Self-awareness, not just awareness. My guess is this comes about from linguistic brains. Yep, I assume animals don't have self-awareness. I can't tell...

Temporary cessation from wanting, if at all. Constant need and want is the through-line of life itself. Practically a definition of, from the animal p...

I can agree with this definition. Other animals may have pain/negative state in the moment, or maybe even unknowing trauma from past events, but I wou...

Yep agreed. It's amazing how much of the day could disappear, and it really wouldn't matter, or would be in fact, a relief. It's like grinding gears, ...

:lol: :rofl: . I'm laughing because of the irony. Almost all my discussions center around antinatalism or philosophical pessimism, so thought it was f...

Stuff has to get done. You have to do it or externalities will get you. Survival. You feel an itch, you feel cold, you feel bored, you feel dirty, you...

Knowing the situation is any time you dislike a situation you are in and know there can be a better one. It is knowing the present situation in its br...

Necessary suffering. People are not to be used as bridges for your idea of a possible future utopia. Utopia means nowhere. The point was that it doesn...

I don't think anyone is exempt from knowing their situation and then having to keep going. Well yes, the alternatives of dying, death, rotting, etc. a...

You make it seem like everyone's daily life is one of transforming earth into a possible paradise. No. Collective achievements are not daily life. Nam...

But what I think is funny is, because our situation arises out of a sort of interaction of our linguistic minds and the environment, the very human si...

Haha, humans and that cat.

We know our situation, the context for which this situation is situated in the broader picture. Other animals do not. We know that things can be bette...

We are the animal that resents. Other animals might fear, maybe sad in some vague way. We can resent, and know exactly why. Every moment, there could ...

He thought that asceticism was the highest form of repose against Will's ceaseless impetus. Yes, as a cardinal, I'd say so. But, we humans need to dea...