schopenhauer1

Yeah, I guess I can agree here, but it's not the same as I am talking about. If a dog can think "I resent this moment", and not just have fear, maybe ...

Thanks :smile:. I don't think living in the moment applies when doing many things in life. Quite the opposite.

And that negates the other things? Pollyannaism.. screening out what one doesn't want to see when evaluating.

Not why they are sick, but the know they are sick and can resent it (contra animals who get sick, feel it, but that's it.. anthropomorphism and odd an...

Don't forget contingent suffering. You got you sore throats, headaches, nausea, fever, body aches, mental illnesses, migraines, indecision, poor plann...

Haha.. it does.. but does not know why. It is yummy and I am doing this because it is yummy are two different things.

Good points.

Yet your own language seems to put the little man further back in the picture.

I just showed you where your language has the homuncular observer weasel words.

I just gave you a critique as you requested. If you don't want to address them, fine.

We can cover that later. I think I gave you something to think about for the Cartesian Theater issues with what I saw, as you asked.

Ok, how in this case does it avoid needing an observer when all other phenomena does? The observer is presupposed. There are weasel words to look out ...

I take a slightly different approach. I start with the idea that everything else needs an observer. Look at a computer- we observe inputs creating out...

I agree with you that computational, and representational theories of mind have switched to systems approaches in many areas of consciousness studies ...

Wish that could be said about exposing people to things like viruses and replace "pages" with "years".

It already was. The clearness of the connection of a pandemic and not exposing people to it is too easy. And c'mon, this is an obvious point.

Oh sorry, forgot to mention that another major reason for antinatalism is coronavirus. Bring people into the world expose them to pandemics. Great job...

Yes, I think I can pick that up from him. The Cartesian Theater I see is linked directly with the Hard Problem. It keeps people honest with the questi...

Are there any differences to his approach and yours? I do like that he acknowledges the Cartesian Theater problem right off the bat. Are you familiar ...

This was not meant to be anything too rigorous. It was just more like... "Wow, if I think about it, a lot of the day I'd rather not be conscious than ...

Actually I think it can be both. Even if there was no person to know they were not around to be the beneficiary of the good, it is good. But yes, good...

We talk about situations which never happening being better, no? A state of affairs where one does not exist where X, Y, Z does not happen (rather be ...

Cool

I think you mean a few waking hours doing only things you'd rather be doing than sleeping. Sure, but you can't have that.

You can retrospectively and meaningfully talk about preference in its relation to never existing. You just can't actually never exist.

Hence edit 3.

Yet wanting to sleep much of the time is is not being conscious either. And this whole "terrifies" thing is why I made edit 3 cause I knew you were go...

Yes, see Edit 2 and 3.

Yet you don't do them.. And hence in my OP: I just think that the de facto options of a normal human life may actually skew towards preferable to be s...

Let me clarify.. If sleeping (being not awake) is preferable to most activities in waking life.. Of course no one is disputing that there are some thi...

I think you stated it.

Sure, but sleeping is sort of a neutral state..one where you are not conscious. Its a stand in for "not existing". Would you rather not exist much of ...

Can you clarify?

Just curious, are you famililar with Terrence Deacon and if so do you mainly agree with his theories like absential phenomena? He talks about how tele...

Isn't it ironic that one of the things you would want to replace with trying to sleep is sleep? So that certainly falls under the many things where yo...

The imagination. Clearly just sleeping would result in eventual death if enacted. The point is rather, how much of normal waking days would you not mi...

There is something called sleep. It exists. "It like to be asleep" would be unconsciousness. Do you have to be aware for "something to be like"? Maybe...

I think these miss the point of the OP. If you rather not be doing something, and in fact rather simply not even be conscious than doing that activity...

Yes, well-stated. With philosophical pessimism, I feel it is similar to the critical stance you mentioned. It is a rebellion against the structural/ne...

I will say, your response can be directly applied to how people respond to philosophical pessimism. In other words, when the pessimist casts aspersion...

I think it is an okay option if thought out all the way through. I am not against it. But as Cioran says, "It is not worth the bother to kill yourself...

Edited a bit

Also, comparing your bad choices with people worse off in some technogical way doesnt make the situation better. Relatively speaking, people have to d...

Wish that was a true situation before having choices Id rather not deal with in the first place.

Oh shit, you guys are right! Why didnt I just ponder the wonders of modern technology to get me through! I see the errors of my ways, and now I rather...

Fine, replace it with "Sleep being optimal".. argument still stands in the waking-kind-of-way thing.

Ah, that's what you got out of it- a debate on the ontology of sleep vs. non-existence. Yes we all know they are not the same thing. Doesn't mean that...

You didn't really read the OP. It wasn't about fulfilling things switching out with sleep. And you didn't read the as-predicted rebuttals, because I c...

I am not sure what you mean exactly. Why is reaffirming choices that are neutral to tedious so good anyways? I am not sure what is so holy about the a...

Will a state of affairs occur in which someone will suffer if born? If yes (Schopenahuer), if probably yes (most Western notions of contingent sufferi...