schopenhauer1

Yes, can you provide Deacon's account of Cartesian Theater, gollum legend, and Homunculus fallacy?

So at what epistemic level is a non-viewer based emergent event happening. You keep giving me the human picture of how emergence looks. The viewer is ...

I guess I should say, at what perspective is this happening? I presume, you the human has a set of images of this playing out.. some sort of latice fo...

When is this binding solidification though and not just arrangements of matter?

@"Olivier5"@"ChatteringMonkey"@"frank"@"magritte" Okay looks like you have the book already! What page are you all on? I would like to discuss his cog...

I don't think it is. Not sure how to set these up though. People would have to let me know when they get the book I guess.

I have to start reading again, Terrence Deacon's Incomplete Nature. He does start discussing this. I am not far enough along to comment on his actual ...

So I'd even go further as to break down what the term "arises" means here. What does that entail. Our brains probably process this term similarly, but...

I believe in some circles, the term "view from nowhere" and "view from everywhere" is discussed. Now discuss haha.

Yes good example.

Right.

Because what is a property without something that knows the property? How do properties arise from simpler properties without just assuming that prope...

Yes, but all of this (and I am going to include your folding and feedback loops from other thread here, are things observed at some level (our conscio...

This was in the context of the debate on experiential states vs. physical states. When new phenomenon come about, it is usually already cognized from ...

If it was panpsychist, it certainly could be the phenomena is identical with mental states. The same goes for causation. How is it the thing itself ha...

Yes.

But what is emerging into what? How? Similar to the hard problem, you can tell me that these atoms and those atoms come together, but if the whole is ...

I believe something like panpsychism would be perfectly okay with neurological phenomena equating with experience. However, they jettison the dualism ...

I think we are agreeing.. My point was sort of the epistemological paradox of emergence. We know of all other emergence through the process of cognizi...

So this is as I thought, again, talking past each other. Hard problemers wouldn't even discount that the neurological correlate is the thing itself. R...

You're point there seems close to the point I am making here: Would you agree that is similar to what you are getting at?

I contend that a lot of this really is a debate about whether consciousness is sort of an immediate (instant) "gestalt" of experience or if it is a co...

Who said we weren't? Not me. Agreed there in terms of underlying evolutionary mechanisms, though I will add that each animal has contingently a unique...

Yep. That does seem to be more the divide here. Not recognizing the legitimacy of the other side. I would not say that the are really. I would give yo...

A lot of this goes down to whether you want there to be a dualism in your scheme. Anytime you have "rises out of" "emerges from" and it is some subjec...

The premise is patently not coming close to answering the hard problem at hand. The claim is that by describing the easier problems, the hard problem ...

So, we can debate all day about the hard problem. The smaller claim I am making here is regarding the methodology of what is going on in this "debate"...

But you know that is a stance he (you) are taking on this, not necessarily the case, right? I mean it isn't a forgone conclusion that there is not a h...

In case you needed a definition, this Wikipedia introduction isn't bad:

No, Dennett is fine doing what he is doing. As long as we can say that he doesn't have an answer for the hard problem, cool. But what I don't think is...

But what is Dennett's response to the hard problem, if not to retreat to easier ones?

This is a case of philosophers talking past each other. Strawson for example, seems to be asking for answers to the hard problem. Dennett keeps reachi...

Yes, I find this the problem with Dennett. He doesn't seem to approach the hard problem. He keeps trying to hack away at easier problems. The question...

Yep, this looks like we are getting somewhere towards the hard problem. That to me seems like indeed, a formal version of what is called the Cartesian...

Excellent analogy with the programming exame by the way to get at Dennett's point. Quale descriptions can be considered a constructed folk psychology ...

I think this is a case of (most likely) double standard on things you don't like to hear. I mean someone's death could have simply been caused to happ...

I'm not sure about the OP but I think I have sufficiently explained why force can be used when what is being caused is indeed an experiential being. I...

I'm not sure why, but didn't get notification for this when you mentioned me. Anyways, so you are giving me the Romanized reconstructed version of thi...

All the reasons you give can be more really about the attitudes of people who want to maintain society. You exist because at some level, people think ...

If a being will be made that will exist if X, Y, Z actions are taken, why can that not be considered "forcing" an existence of another? In other words...

The being that needs to survive, find comfort, and entertainment, lest some deprivation be felt through pain, suffering, need, and want.

I read the pumps, and ask this still to you.

Isn't this possibly a case of a straw man then? Knockdown qualia but not the real problem (the hard problem). Call it sense-data, mental states, subje...

I think the Bible is a certain people's mythological-historical-saga story. The original Jesus Movement was one branch of this movement with emphasis ...

Certainly this is the idealist and pansychist's view of things.

Certainly judgement on its own yes, but this thread was about Christianity and its relation to judgement.

A better context would be found in something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPq0N-_hPyY

Just something to think about.. Judgement of sin divorced from its original context means nothing. Sin has to do with not following some of the comman...

Another way to look at is that your idea of morality does not allow for procreating new people as part of the equation. You are claiming that my focus...

But this has been the problem with people like Dennett- it's always switching the hard problem for easy problems. But the heart of the matter is the h...