schopenhauer1

Well, I'm thinking this type of thing (1-10 scale). Let's say, worthwhile is 6 or above. : Hours: H1: 2 H2: 4 H3: 3 H4: 7 etc. etc.. and if aggregated...

Why do people have a perception that politicians are corrupt in terms of monied interests? What would help this perception or reality?

I think it's hard to assess. A lot of times if each moment was aggregated, it would not be considered worthwhile, even to the same person when intervi...

Yep. Public elections perhaps? How would that work? Would that be limiting in the other way?

Okay, so besides the semantics.. maybe let's just say.. is it a freedom to put one's money into a candidate one likes.. even it makes that politician ...

Yes, there seems to be this weird idea of destiny or inevitability (that isn't justified) that people "need" to experience life, partly due to the ide...

Yes, it is assuming that someone else should be put in some sort of game of going from less ideal to more ideal state. It is affecting someone else, n...

@"khaled" What do you think of people who say that people need to be born into non-ideal circumstances so they "strive" to do better, and get themselv...

Don't use me as an escape hatch.. I've also been patient :D.

The more sophisticated versions will speak as if they are the representative of a club or team, "WE think it is really good to be alive, and you shoul...

Yep, agreed 100%.

Yes, this is pretty much all of these arguments in a nutshell.

"Actual action"? What was the action that got people in the mess that they have to get out of? Tail wagging dog. The presumption is.. First it is okay...

What I find astonishing is the amount of Pollyannaism with pro-natalism camp. Many of them think only in best case scenarios, without thinking of the ...

Yep, good observation. It's probably a bias and also a way to try to not grapple with the question at hand perhaps, that as you said, someone is going...

Exactly.

No one contested in 2016 as far as I know, and I just mentioned the very large differences of how transfer of power was handled between 2016 and now. ...

When you claim that the election would be fraudulent before the actual election, then yeah. How come his followers had forgotten that?

Difference is that one could have contested much more in 2016 being Hillary won popular vote and lost electoral college vote. Yet neither Hillary nor ...

As is your right.. A lot of my posts aren't strictly antinatalism but general philosophical pessimism threads to demonstrate how much suffering we are...

Hahahaha. . Great option, dude.. Play this game, or kill yourself.. I mean, "It's an option!". :roll: You see how cruel that sounds? Maybe not. :meh: ...

I can see that, perhaps. But there has to be a strong correlation with sympathizing with dick leadership style.. They defend the right for him to lead...

I don't know why one thing would exclude the other. But, oddly I can see this as being somewhat reasonable from one point of view. You realize, Trump ...

Phew.. at least you agree with that. This is vague troll-speak. Don't know what you are saying. You didn't address what I said... especially this part...

So.. the civil rights movement wasn't about a group of people that were being discriminated against because of a category called race? And because som...

Why is that not relevant? So odd.. As I said before: I still think the game scenario is the best analogy. It's as if after being kidnapped into the ga...

This is one I think @"Echarmion" will have trouble with, cause there isn't.

When the consequences are closer to home.. he does some self-preservation, like a little bitch. Then he goes back to being a dick again.

I mean, if it's not a reflex, and the logic of not causing harm/ starting a game on someone else's behalf wont' work, then please let me know what you...

President/executive branch dog-whistling to known fanatic followers to march on the legislative branch.. If you can't tell the difference between that...

Yeah those seem to fit.. Though Trump is more of a loud-mouth idiot boss-type. Emperor has no clothes, etc.

But that's the point.. do not create dangers for others unnecessarily, when one does not have to. Do not assume people should be forced to play a game...

Exactly what in the Biden administration would take away the advantaged position? Public health care? Immigration? I'm not sure your theory of their g...

This is such a terrible argument. Trying to compare the prevention of a future sufferer with Trump political tactics. Any sane person understands that...

For you. Just like you should not make a decision that affects a whole life time on someone else's behalf, you should not presume to know what others ...

Yes and that would be impossible to keep once born, I agree so is a non-starter. Certainly, one can simply not procreate. Not an impossibility or even...

No I don't think you want that necessarily, I still think it is wrong to put any cause above unnecessary (unprovoked) suffering when it comes to makin...

That is my criticism.. Using people's suffering for some other goal that you have for them. This sounds like doublespeak.. work sets you free shit. On...

You said: I don't get how I can't take from this that it is okay to enable conditions of suffering of the future individual to occur. Also, what I thi...

So what is your position then?

Not sure what you are saying.

No NOS4A2 is gaslighting you it seems.. And yes Trump is certainly gaslighting his constituency. Actually they are willing participants.. already beli...

You are familiar with the term "gaslighting" right? Well, I suspect some gaslighting here..

And this indeed is the heart of our difference. I don't presume to "teach" another person a lesson of suffering as a goal that needs to be played out ...

Haha yes! Good analogy.

I'm not sure what you are saying, because based on this response, you are indeed agreeing with the sentiment (at least) of antinatalism. Surely you ca...

Yes I can agree with this. Humans have an extra "layer" of suffering based on our conceptual framework way of operating.

Exactly! You can stop right there :). I mean, that is simply how humans operate in general. Humans use linguistic-conceptual frameworks and socio-cult...

If you can prevent the suffering that the crime induced, would you? Or is the "game" of crime and punishment just something that should be played out ...

Nah.. there are crazies on all sides I suppose, but most antinatalists are person-affecting in some way. That is to say, it is the individual (who wou...