schopenhauer1

But she wasn't presented with this argument. Granted, based on what you said, this would not have convinced her. I think this is a good example of wha...

Haha, good points. Does having a strong personal desire for something justify it? What would curb an initial personal desire? What kind of argument wo...

Yes, good points.

What's funny here, is one of my themes is, "What if procreating humans is ideological spam"...ideological cultural continuation perpetuating with each...

Ha, yes, and what would that look like in this case? And what do you think would be the effect/affect if people actually did read the statement?

Much work gets done because it has to be or X will happen. One of the points of the OP is not only do we survive, we can evaluate any given task neede...

Interesting.. what would that look like?

Haha, very true.

Cool. Thanks for your thoughts.

Again, makes no sense. (and I really want to add fuckn before sense. You have to explain this as it is not evident by just you stating this as fact. I...

As I said to previous post, this is just about what affect the statement would have, not the practical considerations of enforcing it. But I do unders...

So, in no way is this supposed to be about how can this be implemented. I realize this will probably never happen. Rather, this is simply about the af...

That makes no sense. Are you saying antinatalists don't have to work? Did you pull this statistic out of your ass or is your head stuck up there? I've...

Start a "Community of Catharsis" where participants are encouraged to gripe about the negatives of human life and advocate for antinatalism to prevent...

Still an answer.

If its actually the root of the problem then yeah.

Here is where people will give a litany of why people need to be born to experience life: virtue(wtf?), pleasure, art, music, aesthetics, cause god wa...

Hey, theres some good news! We should all walk hand-in-hand to collectively decide to end this for the next generation. Why is nothingness so reviled?...

Antinatalism. One less kid born is one less dependent. Peace.

I wasn't quite sure what the question was pertaining to. Are you asking if I envy animals their thoughtless way of life, or people who don't think abo...

Well the argument and the efficacy of people changing their practices after hearing those arguments are two different things. I agree, just hearing a ...

I guess just focusing on non-accidental birth. Let me then break it down to real basic elements then. Birth means creating more laborers. Is it ethica...

What exactly do you disagree with? Do you think it wrong to question putting more laborers with negative evaluations of the laboring into the world?

But specifically here, I'm talking about the justification related to the superstructure. Let's break it down to a very discrete important part of it....

We can evaluate negatively the very means of survival AS we are doing it. That is insane as far as keeping this whole thing going. Humans need a justi...

So they put the continuance of the superstructure over individuals that will engage (possibly negatively) with this superstructure.

But this is the most important point and informs the other objections you were raising. So it isn't a particular but any society that is being perpetu...

Good question. I mean any mode over and above any individual's negative evaluation of any given superstructure they (must) find themselves in.

@"norm"@"Albero"@"baker"@"Bitter Crank"@"180 Proof" So another big point here is that bringing a child into the world isn't "just" this...bringing an ...

Is that really a consideration in non-traditional societies? Yeah there is pressure from parents maybe to be grandparents, but is that such a strong i...

As an aside: http://existentialcomics.com/comic/383 :lol:

Very good insights here. Do people who believe in the Protestant Work Ethic, really sustain this thinking throughout their work life? At no point does...

SO I came up with a neologism called "minutia-mongering". I think humans don't usually reflect existentially. Rather, due to the need to "fall into pl...

Yes, it is the forgetting that is the mystery here. What does one do once it is exposed? I am advocating for communities of catharsis, of commiseratio...

So let's just reduce the socii-economic-cultural thing to one thing to keep it easy. There is thing called "work". What is work? Work is a cultural ph...

:fire: YES to this. The character of Lucifer is a good one here. I rather like the the Gnostic concept of reversing this. The NAYsayer of life is the ...

Commiseration clubs.. I like it :D. Communities of Catharsis. It is a good antidote to the usual "self-help" which tries to say YOU have a problem for...

Yes, I think we are on the same wavelength here. Also, as much as I do advocate for grappling with AN as an UNAVOIDABLE political topic (as it is the ...

But we still have to do this habit forming and prevention. This isn't inbuilt, wrote anything. You are forcing people to grapple with this. It is deli...

True.. but how can this topic be elevated from these practical reasons to be seen as actually a political choice? By having the child, you are promoti...

That's my point, why? You are interested in debating me specifically it seems. But why? You keep wanting to tell me the same thing. You think I'm wron...

Because I clearly care about this TOPIC. You don't seem too keen on the TOPIC but of specifically trying to personally tell something to ME. It does t...

Speaking truth here. I liken it to this: Is it worth perpetuating a life that is anything less than (and not even close to) a paradise? In a paradise,...

So what if a serious (not comedic) shaman said, "Don't force others to have to engage with the socio-economic-political structures of life". Survive, ...

I'm still waiting for your response to this: And did you read the NYT article and how it frames humans as a some agenda of productivity? Here it is ag...

I don't deny there are pessimists in history. But a more organized version of this has only come in the guise of religion, and with a whole lot of oth...

Yes, hence I think there should be opportunities for communities that allow for catharsis.

But AN constantly must be on the defensive (as we speak actually), and yet the other side does not, so you see why it seems like there's no justificat...

Agreed there. YES. And here is a point I'm also trying to highlight. Who or what benefits from this arrangement that people must be born to de facto e...

:lol: Now there's some real regret. But this does bring up a point that other animals cannot evaluate like we can. A fish cannot say to themselves, "G...