schopenhauer1

Arguing that much of history is ethno-history and that the West is not separate from it.. Doesn't mean it can't change over time. But look how it does...

Cool, but that's not the world we live in.. whether it's Australia or Israel. I'm sorry, it's just not. The closest thing to what you're saying is a s...

This started from here: So you brought it up first. You made it seem that the West is somehow separated from ethnic histories.. I'm assuming by ethnic...

Your way of life relies on it. You personally didn't. It's not even a matter of shedding the past. It's simply part of the history of how we got where...

I can argue that it's not even an answerable question. The ways of life are already long gone. It's not a matter of shedding skin. The point was that ...

This I can agree with. Unfortunate situation. Hell, people in Australia play digeridoos.. People in Rome also intermingled and took on other culture's...

Yes, but do you get the point of how the West is also part of ethnic history? Australia is no an exmplar of non-ethnic history, for example, as Judaka...

Then there's no issue. The main point was me trying to point out that "the West" is basically an ethnic history as well. There is no The West and "eth...

Yes we are talking past each other. First read the back and forth in the OP, and if you can, rephrase in your mind what you think the main contention ...

Right, nations with a state.. not nations being violent, that's all.

That Western history is no different than other "ethnic" history. It IS "ethnic" history. And we can argue all day on ethnic vs. national, if you want...

Right, this thread. Stick to it for now. Start another thread on that subject if you want to broaden it to that.

NO, not really. Honestly, I don't have a horse in this race. I think creating new people is itself unethical to that new person who was created, and a...

So how did the "West' play out in Europe prior to WWII? Now let's look at the colonies.. How did the "West" play out in North/South America, Pacifica,...

But I can say this is just the victory cry of the "winners". When your way of life won, and you did all the nasty things to get your way, you can star...

I largely agree with you but to take the devil's advocate, wouldn't it just be the height of colonial attitude to not only conquer and disintegrate ot...

Yes, no one can be glad to be born either. There was never a you that was not going to be born. There was never a you to opine not being born.

Isn't that Hannah Arendt's main argument? "Just doing my job" should not be an excuse. Of course, the people who end up in those kind of positions are...

You're making @"Andrew4Handel"'s case :lol:

You don’t explain how I’m doing it, so I’m gonna assume you just have no good response to my point. Dismissing out of hand doesn’t mean it’s not corre...

Just repeating because you are doing again what I was noticing here:

@"Baden"@"fdrake"@"ManuelaGer"@"ssu" The arguments keep switching about the conflict in general (reclaiming land for both sides) and this specific rou...

But it’s the heart of the debate here. Is murderous killing wrong in the name of reclaiming land? No. Argument over.

So this threads OP already phrased it in a biased way to always make one side the unethical. If we are using parity here, then the OP should have said...

Is this topic just narrowly focusing on this particular incident or can the conflict throughout its many years and manifestations be brought to bear o...

@"ssu"@"BitconnectCarlos"@"Manuel" I agree about the West Bank, if the two state solution is the goal. I do remember a ton of bombings on Palestinian ...

Actually I think I'm thinking of this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO5xt-E5_wI&t=7631s

The best conversations I have seen recently on this topic on the systemic problems are these conversations: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD6E9h_MVH...

Excellent question and good answers. I liked how you put this in historical perspective of what it took for people to stop fighting in previous circum...

Both sides haven’t been angels in this conflict. Either side is equally bad at compromising. Violence in the form of security. Violence in the form of...

@"Manuel" Metaphorically, this is Hamas and Netanyahu. Who made who? Who cares. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ea1mo79ZBi4

So now you're ignoring how Netanyahu got into power. It's the same thing on the other side. Well all agreed, moderates have to take control rather tha...

Again, all collective, no agency.. Did you see my last part? I do remember in the 90s during Oslo and a little beyond for about a decade, all you saw ...

@"Manuel"@"ssu"@"Benkei"@"BitconnectCarlos" I think you are all overlooking how much this is just a feeback loop of the extremes. Hamas and Netanyahu ...

Separate but related issues. Humans, have self-reflection and greater awareness of actions, thoughts, and can use language. Moral awareness and capaci...

I never claimed there was any "objectivity". You seem to ignore that. The case is made and people either find it compelling or not. I don't even know ...

Tragedy of the commons is best seen in a public toilet :(.

My main argument is this: That is to say, it is wrong, but we don't "realize it" until some contingent time in our historical development. It becomes ...

OP pretty much.

I only misunderstand this last post. You mentioned how you thought this was a joke. I said I recognized the silliness of going backwards to who should...

There is no objective way to phrase it. Morality is mainly about emotional appeal. The logic can be consistent. The "soundness" of ethics is based on ...

Delete..didn’t mean to quote there

I think we are just rehashing the same arguments in different ways. I think for this segment we have pretty much said our responses and answers. My ma...

Both sides need the moderates to kick their extremes out and realize it is a zero sum game to do otherwise. The end.

Yes this accords with what I think is true, which is that morality is actually "discovered" over time. The feelings are nascent but don't completely s...

Yeah, I'm just looking at it from the 3D perspective. The message seems to be, "You should have done X, Y, Z deeds prior to the 20th century (or at le...

See my second post too. But yes agreed.

In other words, "We're cool with the arrangement now.. Germany got their war-thing out of their system..America has manifest destiny, Britain has its ...

I just think it's an interesting thing that Western countries take a high ground after a certain establishment has been met.. I would say around WW2, ...

Though I see your point about this being silly, I do think it brings up a point I brought up earlier: We can add in asymmetric warfare along with impe...