schopenhauer1

How about this, don't create the sacrifice in the first place.. Unless having children itself is some sacrifice to the gods of society and tradition.

False. It's precisely because people don't see the perspective that ANs are proposing a new way to look at it. Perhaps it's familiar content, but diff...

Yet you said: And so did the majority back in the day that ripped out hearts, took indigenous land, condoned chattel slavery, condoned child labor, et...

I hope everyone in British, Spanish, French, and other descended countries know the irony of the criticisms of imperialism. I guess it’s only ok if do...

@"Albero" So I guess this comes down to how the “majority” assesses something for you. Can a majority of people be wrong on the morality of something?...

The extremes on both sides would want the banishment of the other completely. Muslims and Hindus had long standing prejudices and many deaths in 1947 ...

This is one reason I'm against procreation. Birthing more people, is implicitly birthing people with the limitations of a socioeconomic creature (that...

And thus why I split the metaphysical and epistemological distinction in ethics. So for example, the ancient Aztecs found it perfectly acceptable, and...

But again, this is why I brought up the extreme of Nazis and white supremacists. These are things that we can more likely agree are "objectively" bad,...

@"khaled" I added some more comments towards the bottom of last post if you were responding while I was editing that.

An egregious version of this to show the point is that a Nazi or white supremacist who disagreed with me, is making a bad assessment.. but I am willin...

Not at all. It can be the case people have the wrong assessment. People misevaluate things all the time. Slavery, genocide, torture, religious persecu...

I think people simply can't see any other way but coping with it. It's more psychological and complex than simply: They do if you ask them outright. B...

Not really. I can tell a slave.. Look you have all the work you can do.. I'm giving you the choice to work the field in the morning, noon, or night. Y...

You can say it sarcastically and it doesn't change my point. It makes nice performative theater if you're into that though. Yes, economic realities ma...

@"NOS4A2"@"RogueAI"@"khaled" So I think my position falls more with deontological, but deontological based on an "analog" rule. It's analog in that a ...

So using the dignity threshold idea, if the magnitude of the surprise is controlling another person to a high degree, then yes. Life guard tapped on s...

Yeah granted. I can see how repeated topics can annoy people, but you said it yourself, just ignore them if you don't like it.. You gotta think, there...

What happens if someone is not happy with the arrangement- everything from work, homelessness, and suicide options? Also, what makes forcing the parti...

Point taken. How much joy, laughter, etc. does it take to ameliorate that Wonka has forced people into this world with the conditions explained in the...

Ok, so let's add in that the game is definitely not something of infinite pleasure. People don't just feel pleasure from these activities or just exis...

Guess we have different moral frameworks. I wouldn't presume to put another human in a game (of life or otherwise) that lasts many years and is only e...

Yeah that's not depressing haha. So as long as Willy can keep his contestants from feeling forced, the game itself is okay for Willy to perpetuate and...

Good question. No, these players only know this world.. What ever happened before this world, they have no memories of it. To the players, Wonkas worl...

Isn't there a major connection to these two ideas? Can't you say that about any philosophical point? Doesn't philosophy have lots of (seemingly) unint...

Indeed. You expose people to your game, suffering occurs, and escape is not easy. That one can escape by self-harm does not make the making of playing...

Thanks for making that distinction. This is my response when accused of this: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/521502

How is birth not the same?

He wants to see people navigate the ups and downs of the challenges he has set the parameters for and see if people can improve on the parameters for ...

So what makes this world "free"? That people can escape by suicide? What makes forcing people into such a situation moral? I didn't quite get that fro...

Is not putting people into this forced circumstance itself suspect or immoral?

Ok, so this is then interesting. So Willy should not have started the game, but now that he has, it must keep going?

Willy has the agency not to create the world or rather not to force others into the world in the first place, no?

I mean, what difference does anything make, man?

So that is all that matters here? So if I put someone in any X circumstance, as long as they have free choice, putting them in that circumstance itsel...

Interesting.. Why are the fruits of the labor the summum bonum?

True true. It's not much of an "option B" is it? Willy's a bit cynical here. More of "Well, it's an 'option' (wink, wink)."

What happens if Willy can imagine other worlds that are better, but the best he can do is create the one described in the OP?

I had something in here but not worth the time.

It's about survival, comfort, and entertainment and how society mediates these for people. First you're thrown into the world, then you find yourself ...

Don't get the point?

Not sure if any of this is correct. Can you not suffer and think of an argument? Even if that was true, can you not have some moments of clarity and s...

Surely both can be employed no? Prevent it fullstop (what most people aren't doing) and also help the people already here. Unfortunately, for the alre...

Yet procreation is not a private act. Quite the opposite, a whole other life is in play. This is the difference between ethics and politics. A majorit...

Here's a thought experiment.. Let's say I am Willy Wonka.. I have created this world and will force others to enter it... My only rule is people have ...

Agreed, however to bring more people into the world in order to do this seems like a vicious circle. We bring people into the world who will suffer, b...

Odd yes. Rupugnant, no.

Even if that is the "majority", we have the ability to access whether we still want to do something or not, and evaluate it negatively or positively. ...

But all harm can be prevented in one case and not the other. That is why it is "unnecessary" at the point of procreation. Unless you want to die, all ...