Pattern-chaser

Don't artists share in the 'ownership' of creativity? I agree that there is creativity in all of the disciplines you mention, but it is generally deni...

So you seek evidence for the benefits that creativity, and maybe art, offers? I think a scientific analysis might be misplaced here. Some creativity i...

I gathered that. :smile: But the way you're describing it is misleading and obscure, to me. So I'm wondering what you think your perspective gains us?...

I don't! No! I am arguing exactly the opposite of these sentiments! I'm appalled that I have expressed myself so badly that you think I'm championing ...

Yes, I'm saying it's beyond science, but not that this is a failing of science. God is not detectably present here in the world (I mean detectable by ...

OK, fair enough. But why? Why describe creativity - an everyday concept centrally associated with ... creating something - as something else? Why dist...

Your thesis is that your song-writing involves nothing but rearrangement of existing 'components'. First, I accept and agree that songs comprise melod...

Exactly. Creativity involves creation. :up:

Where logic and reason have no useful effect, what choice have we but to look elsewhere, maybe to fantasy? You talk blithely about sticking to what we...

Life, the universe and everything aren't "safe". We base our thinking on speculation and the like because there's nothing more concrete available. If ...

Less than 30 individuals own and control more than half the wealth in the whole world. If governments confiscated this wealth, and they used it to com...

My guess - and that's all it is - is that when you attempt something you find difficult, some of your muscles tense, giving rise to the discomfort you...

No, if you abide by the law, then society has nothing to reproach you for. You have followed its rules, and that's all it can (and does) ask of you.

Do you mean "I could've said it more concisely"? :roll:

From the OP: A side-point, which is worth mentioning but not debating here, in this topic (IMO :smile: ), is that no-one is in "complete control of th...

No? Then how will you obtain (scientifically-acceptable and -useful) evidence? For without evidence, science can do nothing. And there is no evidence....

Value is a personal thing. Something widely accepted as valuable is merely valued by a large number of persons. How can a wholly-subjective thing like...

I wonder if you're giving this more attention than it deserves? Everything any human has ever done has value - to them, if no-one else - and some sort...

Yes, that's what design is about. My client specifies what, but my job is to discover how it can be achieved, within the specification. That's where t...

Yes, and in modifying it, part of what the designer does as she follows the creative process is creative. The modifications are new. The car itself is...

Agreed. There is little subjectivity here ... but there is creativity (and actual creation). Yes, that's what I mean. :up:

So being "creative" doesn't necessarily involve actually creating something? <baffled> Then we should coin a different word for it, one that doesn't c...

I'd love to know, but you haven't told me. I know only that you work with 'creative' people, and that it has something to do with music.

For the purposes of this discussion, it seems easier to assume that creativity achieves its aims, even though we know it might not. This doesn't reall...

Consider the standard thought experiment concerning Objective Reality.Your (senses + perception) deliver to your mind images of an apparent world. Thi...

Maybe so, but Glastonbury is still the centre of the universe! :wink: "Welcome to Glastonbury, possibly the quirkiest town in England. Steeped in hist...

Then visit Glastonbury, the spiritual centre of the universe. :smile:

In some cases, it is exactly that. Cases such as 'Does God exist?', where there is no (scientifically-acceptable) evidence. Cases such as 'What is Obj...

I acknowledge and accept your intention. But when you concentrate exclusively on the non-creative aspects of the creative process, how can that not be...

One thing we know about creativity is that it involves the creation of something that is somehow, in some way, new and different. To describe creativi...

But creativity involves creating something, something new. Otherwise it isn't creativity. I can't deny the literal truth of what you're saying, but I ...

This path leads to the conclusion that nothing is truly creative except the first one. The first song, or the first painting. All others are derivativ...

On the contrary, multiple perspectives are usually a central part of being human. Different ways of looking at things can be hugely valuable and usefu...

The problem with that is the huge amount of stuff we don't know, leading us unavoidably to guesswork or faith. Either that or we cannot progress beyon...

And there it is: the blind spot of science, as the topic title describes, put simply and clearly. Is this topic over now? :wink:

This "rearranging" you describe is odd to me. We could say that a new painting reuses and rearranges existing things like lines and curves, paint and ...

That applies to the components that do already exist, and can be reused in the new design. But what about the components that are custom-built for the...

Anything that helps us to deal with the real world is a worthy idea, I think. I find my beliefs form a sort of scaffold on which to assemble my own pe...

Of some aspect of the universe, yes. Not normally the whole universe, but maybe...? :chin: :wink:

Well yes, sort of. :wink: But sometimes the purpose is a personal one. Some creative people feel compelled to do what they do, for their own satisfact...

A different perspective - a different way of looking at things - is a very powerful aid to design. I once solved a particularly intractable design pro...

Yes, this is what creativity is about, in all its guises. And not everyone is, or can be, creative. Some people are intelligent, others strong or dext...

From the social value, yes, but also from the personal satisfaction of creating something that didn't exist before. To neglect the personal aspect is ...

Yes, that seems to capture the sort of creativity I'm describing. :up: I did it because I loved doing it (and also because it paid the mortgage! :smil...

I agree with most of this, but my own (former) vocation was very much involved in production, as an end result. It's easy to miss the creativity in fi...

I'm not sure. During design, I'm arranging the compositional elements until they fit as I need them to. My organic analogy (bones) was a bad idea. Fir...

Smaller blocks. Like bones are built from cells, I suppose.

On the contrary. Occam's Razor is not a "principle", nor is it a law or a rule. It's just a heuristic; a rule of thumb; a way of guessing that seems t...

Well the first thing we've learnt is that creative endeavours vary from profession to profession, to the extent that a description of one simply does ...

This is the subject matter I hoped to discuss when I saw the title of this topic, so I hope I'm not pushing the discussion off-topic. I retired four y...