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No, man, he's saying the meaning is out there in those signs (to put it crudely.)

:starstruck: That's me, fooled happily by the charlatan.

Hey... it's just a thought experiment to make a point. No big deal. The point is that 'pain' has a public function. It's caught up in the ways we inte...

Correct. They are from Wittgenstein.

Style is fucking huge. I'm with you there. But not quite everything. I'm a contrarian too, not given to the admiration of others just because they are...

Hey, I think we all use folk-psychology in dealing with one another. So it's only a matter of using it on ourselves as well. As Gadamer says, interpre...

Yours too.

Well the texts are publicly available. I can't justify/defend my interpretation with any single quote taken out of context. That's part of the charm o...

FWIW, I see a certain 'arrogance' at times in thinkers I respect. It's not a deal-breaker. Consider what you said: I was responding to your psychoanal...

Honestly I think you are projecting here. While I agree that young men tend to take such thinkers as heroes and gurus, I ain't so young anymore. Like ...

PI with OC are two great texts of the 'later' Wittgenstein (his views evolved from the TLP, his young-man's work, interesting in its own right.) https...

Welcome to the joys of interpretation! While I don't want anyone to miss out on what I consider good philosophy, it's not on me defend his reputation ...

:up: Yeah I think Witt is a strong philosopher, one among many others. At this point I'm trying to draw all of their insights together.

Here's another good one.

He sees that bridge and blows it up. Consider that 'I' or 'ego' itself is caught up in the play of signs. He's not saying that signs are meaningless. ...

From my POV, you are completely missing the point that Wittgenstein is pointing out how mistaken that admittedly intuitive-automatic view is. It's coo...

That's not a quote from Witt. I quote lots of other folks too when I talk about a thinker, reeling in what seems illuminating. But let's talk about yo...

That's a tough situation. I'm sorry you've had to deal with it. I appreciate your honesty. This is a good one. It touches on some of the stuff I'm foc...

In the Culler book, 'social facts' are stressed and Durkheim is presented as a similar thinker. Zooming out and thinking of social systems more genera...

I believe you, but I don't think you made a case. As I see it, most people don't find Wittgenstein's points obvious. You called him a 'worthless two p...

Here's quoted stuff, evidence against the 'lack of reason' in non-Western foolosophy. The Buddha's epistemology has been compared to empiricism, in th...

. http://classics.mit.edu/Confucius/analects.1.1.html

The sign is arbitrary or convention. Much can be inferred from this 'first principle.' I think of something like an implicit metaphysics in every natu...

I think we shouldn't spend too much time on the wheel analogy. So far you have made only very general comments about Wittgenstein that could be aimed ...

Thanks! I just returned and finished starting a thread on this. I hope to see you there.

Here's a bit from the post I mentioned, tweaked for context. I'm largely influenced by Saussure in what's expressed here. You might like his notion th...

I wrote about this recently in the Blue Book thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/10703/wittgensteins-blue-brown-books-open-discussion/p2...

:up: It's not so easy to take off glasses we don't know we are wearing. Gotta thank those who point it out. Ever seen Pleasantville? An optimistic rea...

This is an old but good point that may inspire some comments. https://newderrida.wordpress.com/category/derrida-and-saussure/ This simple point gestur...

http://wab.uib.no/agora/tools/wab/collection-2-issue-1-article-8.annotate A couple comments. For Saussure there's the sigifier (the 'sound image') and...

My take on this is to separate the scientist and the philosophy they happen to have. In some cases, I speculate/suspect that it's critics' own scienti...

:up: Or, let's say, without any problems that the religious world didn't also have. https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/feuerbach/works/essence...

Nice quote. Thanks.

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Beware the 'Vain man' tho, also known as 'His Majesty the Baby. ' I think sometimes good manners can be misinterpreted as weakness, and that anti-soci...

Recall tho that she was just a voice, and a voice is enough to fall in love with. Even a textstream is a enough. I know of couples who seduced/fell-fo...

I also enjoyed the Loop thesis as a myth, tho I think it got something right about personality and is rich with insights and poetic invention.

:up: Glad you enjoyed. Hof is great. I got absorbed in his I am a Strange Loop & just like his style.

:up:

Herder seems relevant & perhaps close to W. Pretty rad for 1764. I think we can/should include feelings as part of or along with 'sensations.' https:/...

A little more on relativism (indirectly) and what not... I think we can include the inherited language itself as part of this 'self-alienated spirit,'...

I consider that one that of those issues that readers could discuss forever, never settling for some exact and final articulation. We quote this or th...

:up: It's like the same tune played on a horn, a tuba, a saxophone. For my money, what you are saying above is one of those fuzzy but important truths...

:up:

:up: Lakoff's Metaphors We Live By makes a strong case for how embodied and metaphorical our thinking is. There's also this guy: Hof

I call it one of the two basic ways, given that... The other way is calling X dogmatic, oppressive, etc. To me that's a tricky one.

I basically agree. I do think our age has some noble spirits though. Agreed.

I found him a bit dry at first, but then I started to get it and like it dry.

Nice. Thanks for sharing. The 'heart of man is the heart of God.' That sounds like the incarnation myth and like my experience and the goal in general...

I think you are talking from the assumption that there's just one state-of-heart (or whatever) that all the mystics use myths to express, provide ladd...