Short Story Competition Discussion 2021
EDIT 2: *COMPETITION IS NOW CLOSED. WINNERS AND AUTHORS ANNOUNCED HERE: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/580182
EDIT *THIS IS THE GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD. COMPETITION IS NOW OPEN AND POLL IS HERE: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11538/short-story-competition-poll
We are now accepting entries for the upcoming short story competition. The deadline for submission is (edit) Aug 1st and voting will begin soon thereafter, with the aim of finalising everything by the end of the month (some flexibility on that depending on voting participation etc).
Rules:
1) Anyone can enter. Entries can be PMed to me.
2) Max one submission per member.
3) Max 5000 words.
4) Must fall under the broad category of short story. No poems or plays.
5) Submissions are to be anonymous. Don't advertise what you've written prior to voting.
6) Entries must not be previously available online.
7) Entries will be posted as discussion OPs and may be commented upon.
8) Every member can vote for one short story.
9) Whichever story receives the most votes wins.
If you have any further questions or comments, post them here.
Thanks and good luck!
EDIT *THIS IS THE GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD. COMPETITION IS NOW OPEN AND POLL IS HERE: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11538/short-story-competition-poll
We are now accepting entries for the upcoming short story competition. The deadline for submission is (edit) Aug 1st and voting will begin soon thereafter, with the aim of finalising everything by the end of the month (some flexibility on that depending on voting participation etc).
Rules:
1) Anyone can enter. Entries can be PMed to me.
2) Max one submission per member.
3) Max 5000 words.
4) Must fall under the broad category of short story. No poems or plays.
5) Submissions are to be anonymous. Don't advertise what you've written prior to voting.
6) Entries must not be previously available online.
7) Entries will be posted as discussion OPs and may be commented upon.
8) Every member can vote for one short story.
9) Whichever story receives the most votes wins.
If you have any further questions or comments, post them here.
Thanks and good luck!
Comments (793)
What's the minimum?
Eh, let's call it 500.
"The last man on Earth sat alone in a room. There was a knock on the door ..."
You'd reject that one? :smirk:
If I thought there were enough budding Frederics among the literary weeds here, I'd gladly facilitate a dedicated microfiction competition to fertilize their blossomings, but to make a long story very short, I fuckin' doubt it. :razz:
Rooting for that green dude. :up:
Will the submissions be posted as you get them or all at once on July 25th?
All at once on July 25th (provided we get enough to run the competition (say, min 5), otherwise I may extend the deadline a bit.)
Has the word gotten out. Do you think 'enough' members are aware of the contest?
Yes, it is questionable whether enough people are aware of the competition, so I am writing this to make the thread pop up to the top of discussions. But, of course, people do need to look in the lounge for the details of the competition.
Reckon a reminder in the shoutbox is due.
Nearer the date, I'll do this.
Flash fiction - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_fiction
I've not written anything yet, but go ahead and mark my vote for myself.
Hanover 1, World 0.
Thanks to both for introducing the authors and styles of short stories or flash fiction.
I looked up Librivox - eventually finding Fredric not Frederic - in a collection of other authors. Also Philip K. Dick at al.
Worth it for moments of a-musement.
The last Dick one I listened to was 'The Eyes Have It' (8:39). Funny.
Another one (48mins) made me think of a TPF thread:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11409/working-women-paradox
Could @TheMadFool be one of Dick's 'Piper in the Woods' :scream:
:rofl: It's not impossible.
Yes, there's a chance, as I still haven't received the minimum number of entries.
For sale: baby.
Extended to Aug 1st. Should have pinned to all discussions from the start, I guess, as we didn't get enough visibility in the lounge.
@180 Proof needs the competition. Don't make me do this.
My claim to short story writing fame is that my brother writes them, not me, so I'm not sure how much competition there will be. But I'll do everything i can to make you do it too.
Quoting Benkei
Quoting Noble Dust
I thought Baden was worried that you two were going to collaborate. Perhaps not.
I'm a terrible collaborator (read: creative control freak), so naturally I read past the suggestion. :lol:
If editors are allowed then go for it :joke:
Write it!
It's more of a philosophical argument whether death obeys logical progression so I might just post it as a fun topic in Phil of religion.
Hypothetically.
Is that a reference to his wife being pregnant or something? If it is, your story is more fucked up than mine.
All I'll say is it involves a lot of miscarriages, in more ways than one.
Four, and expecting at least one more from 180. I'll go grab a coffee while you work out what that comes to.
Thanks for nothin', Marcel.
I'll have one for ya soon.
:cheer:
I've always preferred whatever the alternative to hard sci-fi is called; Philip K. Dick, Stanislaw Lem, et. al. Curious to read yours though. Maybe @Baden can edit the rules for length depending on how close yours is to 5000? :razz:
Right, that's what I'm sayin'
I could probably produce something; it might even meet your expectations for snark, sex, and wisdom. What would be absent or very poor is what makes a short story worth reading -- plot, character, and dialog. I've tried to write fiction and failed--several times.
I read an account by someone hired to write pornographic text for a publisher. She was given a list of words that were to be used generously in the text, words like zipper, levis, motorcycle, pulsating shaft, breast, or some other body part; spike heels, wet, etc--words that the publisher knew would trigger a favorable (i.e., hard) response from the male readers who bought their pulp books. She got paid by the page.
I could probably write a few pages under those terms. I've tried my hand at writing fictional sex scenes and describing actual ones. I tend to slide [unwillingly] into a clinical vocabulary which isn't what 99% of the guys are looking for. They want to feel the heat, they don't need to read precise temperatures. The 1% who like clinical language can afford better material.
I've read some of this material and if one is in the right mood, it's quite effective. I prefer pictures, though, they being worth 1000 words.
The short story writer that really turned my crank was Flanner O'Connor; John Updike too. Arthur C. Clark wrote some great short stories, as well as his longer more famous works. Two of O'Connor's quotes:
Hey man, if soft porn is acceptable...
Wait. What? Why on earth would it need those? I just write whatever I like. Which is why I never will win but at least I'm not stuck within limitations and get to enjoy myself.
Yes! I've written approximately 0.5 short stories as an adult, and I'm 100% throwing in on this. Come on, @Bitter Crank, you old bitter crank.
Yes, and I think that loads of others should enter too. Creative writing can be fun, and an interesting form of experimentation. I would love to read short stories from many on the site, including @TheMadFool, @Possibility and @Banno.
:up:
Thanks Jack Cummins. I promise to do my best if this proposal comes through. G'day!
I would love to read short stories from ANY on the site. Even those who write the 'dry' stuff or who don't even post but simply read. All can be creative, even if they don't think so.
From the OP:
Quoting Baden
So, how does that work ?
Does the whole story fit into a PM or is there an attachment feature ?
Quoting Baden
If entries are anonymous whose 'name' shows up as author of the thread ?
There really hasn't been much in the way of encouragement, until recently when it seemed that there wouldn't be enough participants. Good move to use 'The Symposium' and have it centre stage.
I am glad that @180 Proof and @Hanover posted giving information about the genre and some authors. It's been a delight to follow this up. Short stories have never really appealed to me before.
So, I am looking forward to reading all of the entries.
I am sure they will entertain and inspire.
Perhaps others will join in next time round.
How long does it take to write a short story, on average ?
I guess it depends.
On whether the muse strikes you, or is there a method to the madness...
It would be interesting to hear from all the authors after the voting. Just how they did it.
It's always been a mystery to me...
Best wishes to all :sparkle:
I agree with you absolutely because I would just love to read as many stories as possible. I thought that there might be so many entries that Baden would not know how to create a thread, or something, out of them. So, when I read that there were only 4 so far I was left feeling rather puzzled. I am just looking forward to reading whatever entries appear on the site in August and, will have a holiday from philosophy threads until I have paid attention to them.
Mine. I'll be posting the threads, one for each story.
Excellent :up:
And I know this might be a stupid question but I'll repeat it anyway:
Quoting Amity
Still working....
And stories aren't just for competitions, are they ?
I was wondering about having this as a long-term feature in the 'Symposium' where people could explore their creativity all year round.
Another thought - what about having a Guest Speaker who is not only a philosopher but who writes fiction or is even an artist. Words and Pictures.
For an example, I searched the Philosophy Now magazine's Fiction section:
https://philosophynow.org/categories/Fiction
and clicked on this:
https://philosophynow.org/issues/144/The_War_with_the_Insectoids
Luís Cordeiro-Rodrigues is Associate Professor at the Department of Philosophy, Yuelu Academy, Hunan University. Ricardo Tavares has a BA in Philosophy.
--------
Haven't read this one ( need to watch my limit ) but it sounds quite intriguing...
A Day by the Stream with Heraclitus
by Sarah Rochelle
[Issue 143 :: April/May 2021]
--------
@Baden @jamalrob - your thoughts welcome...
A Guest Speaker who might even judge the stories ?
Scrolling down the Fiction list - Mark Pinder ?
Diminished Responsibility
Mark Pinder sees physics turn into metaphysics when an experiment goes wrong.
[Issue 141 :: December 2020 / January 2021]
http://www.markpinder.org/
Aug 1st. :up:
If there was a thread for short stories as a regular feature, I think that it would work best if it was based on writing a story which has a philosophy theme. Actually, a few minutes ago, I just discovered that @PoeticUniverse has created one on my thread about the mysteries of existence. The only problem which I see if there was a thread for stories permanently is that it might spoil future short story competitions. Personally, I don't think winning is the main thing, and it as a chance to write a story for getting feedback, but making it into a competition makes it more exciting, and may get people motivated, hopefully.
So, how to bring that out of the box ?
How about having pop-up pieces of creativity - as inspired by TPF, perhaps linked to the thread.
'The Symposium' would seem to be a good place for that. However, we are not allowed to start threads there - only the mods.
@Baden @jamalrob - any thoughts on this ?
So far, in the 'Symposium' we have the 'Shoutbox' and the 'Short Story Competition' - are there plans to include other threads to facilitate individual and original creative expression ?
That can be arranged. I'll be Googling segments of everything submitted before posting anyhow. Regardless of whether the poster is the author, anything that can be found on the internet will be disqualified
:smile:
Who the hell is 'you people' ?
Who is it that is placing 'limitations on creative activities' ?
We already have: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/89/get-creative
Non-competitive short stories and other creative endeavours can be posted there.
I definitely don't want pop up features because I can't do that on my phone. The reason why I don't quote others in my posts is because it requires a mouse.
OK. Good. Not many people know that !
Now that you've mentioned it I can see it. Currently cruising at the bottom of the Lounge.
Do you think it could be one of those permanent threads, like the 'Shoutbox', to be up-graded to the 'Symposium' or Main Discussion ?
You know how invisible the Lounge is...
:sparkle:
I had been thinking along the lines of pop-up posts within a thread created for the purpose. But Baden tells me we have that already:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/570824
You have an old-timey phone from like 2015 or something?
You just hold your finger on what you want to quote and drag it to highlight it. The above was quoted from my phone.
Replied on my android!
It is a smartphone and I can do a fair amount on it. I obviously haven't mastered the art of dragging very well, as I don't seem to have enough fingers, when I am holding the phone.
But I don't want to talk about using my phone again on the site. If anyone writes a story featuring a phone, especially with a cliffhanger about a phone battery running out, I sure @Amity and some others would assume that it is mine.
Tempting, so very tempting...
But it wouldn't see the light of day. Plagiarism ban probably...
You have managed to incorporate my struggling fingers into a little story, although my fingers are not fat, but simply clumsy.
I have a true story of how I was busy writing a reply to @Madfool on this site several months ago and accidentally left the tap on in the bath. I was busy writing and my mum called out to say that the lights downstairs had all gone out. I said that it must be a powercut. Then, I walked into the bathroom and noticed water cascading through the ceiling and realised my dreadful carelessness. There was a lot of mopping up to be done before we could begin to look at the light sockets, and it was difficult having to mop by torchlight.
Funny wif ffffffckin fabulous fartifutufallliteration :fire: :100: :cool:
Please don't take offense; the word fat just fit too perfectly.
No offence taken. I think fat fingers worked well as an image of the character grappling with his phone, especially using small digits.
"The Fat Fingers of Death" -- Remember Bruce Lee?
I'm probably the worst person to ask because I only use a microwave, and it's a lot safer...But being on the phone can be a big problem and I often miss stops on busses and end up in all sorts of places. Phones can be a best friend or enemy, but the biggest disaster can be losing one and the chaos it causes. I wouldn't even mind creating a story based on losing a phone at some point.
Well you can simplify any story to a single and seemingly boring occurrence.
Perhaps the pig was on a mission to gain approval and pigship from his fellow pigs, something we can all relate to. Perhaps the pig fell asleep from overwork dictated by a cruel pig king and has always desired to overthrow the pigdom. Maybe he just ponders the idea of being piglike throughout the day and in his hesitancy to only think but never act fails to change anything thus offering a useful if not melancholy lesson about life.
I think therefore that instead of not listening to others, you should restrict your not listening to just Hangover. If you listen to him, and do something, anything, you'll perish in a flicker of self-contradictory paradox.
Don't think you haven't been forewarned.
These things baffle people, as in, how can a pig be so loving and humble in it's life. But a pig does as it does and does what it wants to do, as well as always knows what to do. Thus the pig lived a humble but happy life.
The end.
It's a 'no to competitions, a 'no' to fiction in general, and a big fat 'NOOO!' to thrillers, psychological or cheap.
But for all you pig-fans, a story-song ...
Pigs can be mean as shit. A boar will gore the fuck out of you. I think you overestimate their mild demeanor and gentle disposition. They're destructive and angry bastards.
Yes, that may be true, but, tell me when was the last time you heard a domestic pig killing anyone for the past millennium or more?
Boars aren't pigs. They are indeed very forracious.
"Boor" and "boar" get confused. "Boar" should be distinguished from 'boor' which is a term for male human swine. Human females can be swinish too, but What are they called? Women are sometimes called "sows", but any discussion of this matter is likely to lead to moderation.
In North America "wild pigs" are feral domestic pigs--pigs gone hog wild. They could be dangerous, but they are usually just very destructive, what with their tough snouts.
https://www.newsweek.com/rome-corcolle-pig-kills-man-attacks-toddler-piglets-child-hospitalized-1463875
Pigs! Those pigs!
And yet boer is a type of goat. The old man down the road sells them. Want I should get you a pair? Always buy at least two of herd animals. At least.
Boer goats are meat makers, developed by the boring Boers.
Are you sure they weren't developed by Niels Bohr?
OMG, no ! What are the symptoms ? Hope you're not suffering serious side-effects ? :scream:
Quoting 6 Steps to Avoid and Fix Bad Writing
https://thewritepractice.com/how-to-avoid-bad-writing/
See step 4. The 'Re-Word' example. Features a cell phone, sandwich screamer :wink:
The symptoms of bad writing are bad grammar, bad sentence structure, and bad plot twists. As everyone knows.
So you have a knowing-doing gap ?
I don't believe you !
Does it bring you out in a rash :mask:
What?
Ah, lack of hearing. Never mind, eh. All things must pass...
I have tinituous in my left ear, so a lack of hearing is about right.
Tinituous tinnitus ? That's the worst.
But not from story-telling - that would be pinnochiotuous pinnochitis :scream:
As an aside: The word capacity of a PM...is....more than I ever imagined.
So what I’m hearing is a little reluctance to get started. Gotcha. :point:
Badum.. tish....
Winner, winner, chicken dinner!
'Recounted with the storytelling élan of a master raconteur - by turns dramatic and funny, charming, tart and melancholy...with portraits of writers, spies, politicians, war reporters and actors who possess a palpable physicality and verve' ( New York Times).
'The Pigeon Tunnel - Stories from My Life' - John Le Carré.
38 chapters or stories. The penultimate:
From his Introduction:
'To the creative writer, fact is raw material, not his taskmaster but his instrument, and his job is to make it sing. Real truth lies, if anywhere, not in facts, but in nuance.'
He asks and answers questions - he doubts there is a thing as pure memory.
He ends the Intro with:
'[i]Out of the secret world I once knew I have tried to make a theatre for the larger worlds we inhabit.
First comes the imagining, then the search for reality. Then back to the imagining, and to the desk where I'm sitting now'.[/i]
So, sing on all you shiny diamonds :sparkle:
“Read over your compositions, and wherever you meet with a passage which you think is particularly fine, strike it out.” S Johnson
There are so many books and sites on writing and how to write good fiction that it would be possible to spend years reading them before beginning at all. Meanwhile, the blank piece of paper or screen stares at us angrily, waiting to be filled with words.
"However: if your entire manuscript is particularly finely written, submit it to a publisher." - A. T. S.
In other words: consistency is the most important thing in publishing. There is a market for every type of writing; but while you can spill pearls to swine, you ought not to feed lions both blood-fresh chunks of meat and carrots with raisins, and you ought not to feed philosophers both food for thought and convergent problems.
And if the publisher strikes out half of it, make a podcast.
Not a lot of people know that :roll:
Quoting Jack Cummins
It's not a case of all or nothing. Feeling overwhelmed by advice, not wishing to spend time or energy reading 100s of books, leading to inaction.
I think if you know what kind of book or short story you want to write, the genre, then reading successful authors 'On Writing' thoughts can inspire. That was the the title of Stephen King's book - a mix of autobiography and tips for the aspiring writer.
If you're gonna give a blank canvas a personality, why would you choose the phrase:
'stares at us angrily' ?
Is that how you view it ? Are 'you' the 'us' ?
The relationship has already begun. Perhaps you mistake where the stare and anger is coming from ?
'Suffering' from writer's block ? But why be angry ?
Really hope you don't see the blank page as 'evil' :wink:
Why not use more positive adverbs - like 'patiently' or if you really want the negative: 'impatiently' ?
We can be inspired by looking up 'Adverbs of manner'...
And wait expectantly for a passing muse :sparkle:
Perhaps, it would have been better if I had said simply that I had said that I have known moments in my life where I have seen the blank sheet in front of me, and,of course, I am projecting my anger onto the piece of paper through personifying it. The only reason I used the term 'us' is because I have taken part in conversations with others about this as a shared experience, but it was with people who I know in real life, not people on the forum.
On a positive note, one writer who I have read on the subject of writing and creativity in general is Julia Cameron, who wrote,'The Artist's Way' and many other books. As part of the guidance she offers, she recommends writing 3 pages of thoughts as soon as possible each day. I tried this for several months and I did feel that it helped the flow of ideas. The aim of this is not to create good writing necessarily but to simply begin writing. The point I was really trying to make in the post I wrote earlier, but it may not have been conveyed clearly, was that rather than trying to create good results we need to simply experiment.
How often does that happen, not just to you ?
Points being missed in a veritable vastness of verbosity.
So this: Quoting Jack Cummins
Eventually translated to a single point:
We need to simply experiment rather than trying to create good results.
Again, it's not an either/or.
It's a process. The writing process.
https://www.grammarly.com/blog/writing-process/
If the publisher strikes out half of it, he or she or anything in-between shall publish it, therefore no need to make a podcast. The publisher wouldn't be striking half of it out if he or she or anything in-between never wanted to do anything with it.
Could you convert that to Atlanta time?
When you put stick in ground and no shadow because sun gone.
I guess we can give it two weeks? Or is that too long?
No practical mechanism for that and tbh I don't think it's necessary. The best story should get the most votes and there aren't enough entries to make other placings very meaningful.
If it will be decided by popular vote, this will be easy. You saw what I was able to do with the upvotes.
In fact, you could run a parallel competition on what the text of the whoop-up campaign should look like: graphics, text and all.
No thanks.
We haven't established what the prize is.
Yep.
I'm not on UTC time either as it happens. But it's a handy yardstick.
Doubt mine will get any votes but it may be interesting to see any responses.
:lol: :100:
Quoting TheMadFool
Courting Evil
"Mr. Black! Firstly, On 15th July 1999, at 4:30 PM, you aided an old lady cross the street and not only that you carried her groceries for her! Secondly, at 12:00 AM, midnight on 21 Aug 2000, you saved a 17 year old girl from being sexually assaulted at a gas station! Thirdly, this is on 19 Decemeber, 2012, you donated 2000 dollars to a charity organization in Africa. Am I correct?" asked Donald unable to conceal his revulsion.
"Yes, you are correct! I indeed did those things" replied Mr. Black trembling in fear.
"The court finds the defendant guilty by his own admission of all 3 counts of felony and hereby sentences him to death!" said Donald in a solemn voice, an expression of utter disgust on his sagacious face.
When did you and missus move from Ittoqqortoormiit?
Right after you arrived.
Speaking of, are you submitting some of your writing @Tobias ? :flower:
@Caldwell
Maybe you could help me encourage the submissions :flower:
I am presuming people aren't meant to give write replies to any feedback because it would make it obvious that it is their entry. I think that it would spoil it completely if we knew who the authors were. It will be fun to find out eventually.
Yep.
About comments and feedback; judging.
I have never tried to assess a series of short stories before, so looked for some help:
https://blog.dinyfvk.com/how-to-judge-a-short-story-writing-competition
Lots of good advice - there are 5 steps. Some a bit too serious, probably.
I like the first one:
BTW, I think every story-teller out there is brilliant.
:100: :heart: :party:
Good advice. I'm going to leave a little time for posters to digest the stories before I put the poll up anyhow. Well done to everyone for partaking. Note that we on the mod team are not prevented from posting a story. With no monetary prize going and this being mostly for fun, I didn't think it necessary to impose any special restrictions.
:up:
To digest the stories?
The one story I have read is spicy and I need more time :gasp:
Somehow the short story submissions are posted amongst the threads in the lounge. Set up this way, some stories will wind up on another page of the lounge. Take a look: or pin them all in one place in the lounge.
I think that it is possible that very few people will look at the stories because they are posted in the lounge. But, of course, it is complicated how people will judge and evaluate short stories, especially in the context of philosophy. So much comes down to the audience. One thing which I am aware of is how this forum is mainly comprised of a male readership. Personally, I attended creative writing workshops in which older females were the main participants, so I think that all these variables will come into play.
But, my own conclusions is that even if certain entries receive no votes whatsoever, is that no one should feel that they are an absolute failure, and that they should abandon all future writing if they receive absolutely no positive feedback at all, because writing and its reception is so variable. So, even if any member receives no votes and only criticism, with absolutely no positive feedback at all, I think that we should not give up writing and regard ourselves as being completely inadequate on the basis of one story being shared on this particular forum, especially as stories and appreciation is so subjective.
Rejection is such a big issue. Personally, I struggle with it. My own entry was one which I wrote a few years ago in a creative writing workshop, so if it is regarded as being absolutely terrible I can think beyond it. But, if someone pours out heart and soul into this contest, and receives only negative responses, I do wonder how they will feel.
It seems we have a fairly kind community and I haven't seen any negative comments, and I hope no one takes anything to heart if there is some critical feedback because that too is needed. My own thought is that no one who put themselves out there should feel bad for doing it. They are much better off than those who were too fearful (this time around). It's sort of like when I go to the gym and see someone struggling to walk 1/2 a mile an hour on the treadmill. They look infinitely better than the thousands at home who didn't even show up.
If you click the "Forum" button, look at the Categories heading on the left of your screen, and you'll see the short stories have been broken out into a subforum for your easy viewing pleasure.
I am hoping that if my own story receives absolutely no votes at all that I can remain as anonymous. I take creative writing seriously, but how we evaluate and respond to others is complex, and I think that it would ruin the site entirely if it becomes a process of naming and shaming, because creative writing is so different from philosophy discussion.
To be honest, if I pursue creative fiction writing seriously, I would look beyond this site entirely, and I do see writing on this site as experimental entirely, but feel unsure how some may see this. My worst fear is that some people may feel that if we are not seen as good writers that we should give up writing completely, on this site, and completely. Personally, I struggle with feelings of self worth, writing on this site, or on any other ones, but I do think that holding on to our own core sense of self, and the writing sense of 'self' is essential.
I know how s/he will feel ... s/he will live. I suspect only members with experience of failure at fiction writing or maturity have submit a story. The feedback, however humbling, I think, will be worth it.
I went through several ideas and old story fragments gunking-up my harddrive or cloud account before I settled exasperatedly on something (which surprised me) just in time to beat the damn deadline. The frantic last minute rewriting was fun though (and yet still it feels like a rough draft). Now comes the ordeal, comparing the story I've written to what I'd imagined, and comparing my entry to the other entries in the contest. I count two or three I would have liked to have written; I've no confidence that my story measures up to them, but as you say, Jack, audience reception is a subjective (fickle?) thing. Writers, especially we amateurs, are just bungee jumpers in the dark over shark infested waters. I can't remember who said – Nietzsche or Hemingway? Kafka or Faulkner? – you have to write with blood in your mouth, or something to that effect.
Whichever suffered from gingivitis, perhaps. Kafka was kinda weird about his work, as I recall. Story goes that he burned a lot of it before passing on.
I'm excited to read more :eyes:
At the store now to get Popcorn :flower:
Quoting Benkei :grimace: Yes!
I do believe that writing failure is a something worth considering. I am even wondering how I will feel if my own entry to the competition is the absolute bottom of the pile and whether I will stop writing on this site at all, seeing my own writing as worthy of any consideration at all. Of course, I would be trying to hold on to some kind of integrity of self, rather than seeing myself as an absolute failure. I have already suggested that my own integrity may be about seeing my own writing as being in a previous context.
However, I can't really connect with any of the entries.. Does this mean that there is something wrong with me ,and the way in which I conceptualize stories? I am trying to view the entries fairly, but do not know how to do this beyond subjective and personal meanings which may arise in the various stories.
What do you mean with connect? I'm reading a book and I fucking hate the protagonist because she's a stupid, whiny bitch. I'm not connecting at all but I am enjoying the fact someone managed to write a book that makes me feel so strongly about a character. I had the same thing with Game of Thrones and King Geoffrey. Hated the kid.
Now if you mean that none of the stories elicit any type of emotional response then I would find that surprising.
Poor Auguste.
Relax, you're not being judged by the literati but by a bunch of forum anons having a laugh.
Same, except in the story I'm reading she's not a stupid whiny bitch but just getting badly played by the antagonist, and every cringeworthy scene gets worse than the last. Rather I hate that she's getting played like a fiddle because I like the character, so not really the same at all.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Quoting Hanover
Quoting 180 Proof
I totally admire anyone who has entered a creative writing competition, especially on a philosophy forum where anyone can and does post 'unhelpful' comments. To say the least.
Like many here, I haven't submitted a short story.
The thought of writing one has never seriously crossed my mind.
Although I enjoy emptying my thoughts out here, I have little to no imagination re plots, characters etc.
Fiction writing - I haven't even been brave enough to join any formal course or class.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Clearly, other specialised sites will be more...em...serious...and have experienced participants/tutors dedicated to improving writing skills. Your creative writing workshop will already have given you feedback on your story, no ?
I intend to read and comment on all of the stories. It is the least I can do to show my appreciation.
This will take time - given the amount of entries - all substantial, more than a 6-word flash.
I read somewhere about 'The Shit Sandwich'. Praise. Critique. Praise.
But critique needn't be smelly, huh ?
I am not sure how the voting system will work.
@Baden is it only one vote per member for the story which stands out as 'Best' ?
So, it is likely that at least one story will receive no votes?
Come on, give a little...each one deserves at least one vote just for being part of the competition !
Make it so, number one :sparkle:
I am reading a book, 'The Ruins' by Mat Osman, who was the drummer of the band, Suede, and I am finding it as very good. I think that subjective interpretations of stories are important.
I will try to evaluate the various stories entered in this site fairly at some point. I guess that I am just trying to come to terms with the possibility of my own entry being the worst. I am trying to see this as not meaning that I have nothing worth saying and that I should never attempt to write anything ever again, because this could be a response if I am ranked and rejected as the worst story writer on this site.
Sorry, doesn't work like that, and no lollipops either. :wink:
Anyway, the poll is here.
Go vote!
Anytime. https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/37/short-story-competition
Always best to begin a poll with "Don't be a dick".
:lol:
Anyway, I have read others' stories and given my vote based on my own connections. We will have to wait and see what the results are and I will congratulate any winner. I am simply saying that while I will probably do extremely badly, I am trying to not lose any confidence in myself at all, and I say this to any other people who may feel this too.
God, what a rushing bully you are :naughty:
I wanted to make my comments first...
How long is the poll gonna be up for ?
That would not be a reasonable response, especially if you're serious about writing, because the voting is being done by a bunch of rando internet fools (no offense intended).
That is helpful, rather than seeing it as the day of judgement. We don't want to be cast into the fires of being seen as never being able to write anything worth being read at all, and forever. But, it can be hard when receiving critical comments, especially if this comes with a history of people trying to rubbish your writing and ideas.
If it's helpful, I read all of them and enjoyed them all to varying degrees for very different reasons. I think each story has something to offer here.
So far, at least, the comments have been very charitable.
Quoting Amity
Oh, I meant to put a deadline in the OP. Let's say Aug 15th.
I know that I am probably being seen as over the top, and I have received some positive interaction on this site, but, in many aspects of my life I have been seen as a complete failure. But, I don't wish to whinge and complain, but to point out to any others who may feel in a similar predicament that we need to hold onto the positives, even if others keep finding faults in absolutely anything we try to do.
Your main competition is yourself and your yardstick the things you truly see as important. Keep the focus on that and you can't go too far wrong.
Absolutely, and I will try to do that in all senses, way beyond this particular competition. Life is more than competitions, and is about valuing the unique, and I try to focus upon this in viewing other people and myself.
Excellent :up:
:up:
:hearts:
Personally, I think that I'd only make discouragingly critical comments in a casual competition like this if the story were somehow offensive. I have complete trust that the resident PC Police have weeded out any such content, however, so no worries for my part.
The comment which I have received on the site was one hundred per cent negative, with absolutely no strengths identified in my story at all. However, I got positive feedback in the workshop in which I wrote the story, so contexts are important in evaluation.This does lead me to wonder about anyone contributing a story on this site. Personally, at the present time, I don't plan to enter an entry in any future short story competitions on this site and would rather look for sites on creative writing for this.
But, perhaps, I am just a bad loser and lack creativity, and, of course, it is only one story. I have no idea how any other entrants feel, and I don't wish to read how beautiful their stories are, while mine is seen as complete trash. I won't say anything more because I don't wish to reveal my entry, to spoil the anonymous nature of the contest, or be condemned as the worst possible writer. I will stick to philosophy on this site at present, and the creation of threads, which may inspire far more profound thinkers than myself.
It doesn't make much sense to say your story is seen as "complete trash" after one negative comment.
Quoting Baden
Exactly.
It's crazy and so self-centred that he doesn't wish to read 'how beautiful' other stories are.
Not to mention that he has practically given the game away as to which is his entry.
You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes...
So much for wanting to be anonymous. Nobody would even know he posted a short story if he hadn't told us.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Indeed. So why all the anguish ? It doesn't make sense...
Let's not argue about it. My main message is to have fun with this whole thing.
As you say, so shall it be...or not.
The difference between here and creative writing groups is that in groups one goes round and the various people make comments. As it is, on this site, one person may comment, but nobody else. I am not saying that the experiences of writing groups is superior, and I may learn from one critical comment, but any person who experiences this is left in this predicament. I felt rather depressed by one comment, and I have absolutely no idea if I will receive any further comments, or whether this one will influence all other opinions.
Personally, I have a mixture of experiences of sharing writing in a variety of contexts, but I am left wondering how I would feel if that was not my experience. I am not saying that I think that writing has to be seen as therapeutic, and certainly the transition to publishing may be brutal. However, on this site, I do wonder about the inbetween areas, but I am aware that is complex. Perhaps, I can only think about the feedback I give to others rather than the feedback which they give to me. Ultimately, it may be about enabling others rather than myself to embark on creative writing adventures.
We are all in the process of trying to work out who wrote particular stories. That is part of the fun and apart from revealing that I have been criticised severely, I hope that I have not revealed too much. If nothing else, I may have shown how I am at the bottom of the heap, and I wish to learn, because I do believe that writing, whether philosophical or fiction, is a learning curve.
We should have a 'guess who wrote what' game after voting is closed. :naughty:
Exactly...
Agreed. Maybe we should have a competition to see who got most right :wink:
Quoting Jack Cummins
You jumped the gun - have patience dahlin' - now we know which is yours, we will band together as one and give heap big 'likes'....
Just kidding all the stories have merits, yours included.
No 'pity' votes.
Great minds think alike...or something :wink:
I don't really mind if I come away with no votes at all. But I would like to learn something from the stories or the process of the short story competition on the site as a whole, in connection with the wider pursuit of philosophy.
The authors anxiously and narcissistically review their stories. What was it? Oh, crap!
Just remember, Jack, that Michael Jordan failed to make the varsity team as a junior in high school.
Hey, your fear of failure didn’t keep you from daring to enter the contest! At least you’re more admirable than Simone Biles, the greatest female gymnast of all time, who dropped out of Olympics competition due to “mental health issues”.
Mental Health. Pfft! What a load of shit!
Id love to see you collapse under that kind of pressure. Too bad you aren't a fraction good enough at anything to ever be in that position!
I have so collapsed. I used to be a tournament-level tennis player, and I choked once in a city doubles final, so I know what it’s like to fold under pressure...but I was ashamed of it, and don’t condone it. The local paper reporter who covered the event was ashamed too, and didn’t repeat for the public what I confessed to him after the match, for which I was grateful.
Quoting hypericin
I suppose when someone is morally indignant enough about some issue, that they may take the greatest liberties with their knowledge—or lack thereof.
The fact that you and the local paper reporter were ashamed doesn't somehow make the attitude normative. Maybe instead of internalizing it and spreading it around you should forgive yourself.
Quoting Leghorn
I stand ashamed and corrected! I thought you didn't have the right to dish on an Olympic favorite and possible GOAT... little did I know you played in a city doubles tournament!
Little did you know. Do you not realize that the greatest events in human history play out also on the smallest stages? How else are we to identify with anything great? If greatness is utterly inconceivable because of its distance from us, how else then are we to apprehend it? Must it remain then alien to us?
I don’t think this is what Simone would think.
That is some uncharitable bullshit. Wtf. :shade:
(I don't give a rat's funky ass about the Olympics, I never have, so my interests begin and end with Ms. Biles as a human being. Period. Full stop. But who tf are you, dude, to judge anyone struggling with any difficulties or life-crises?)
Here we go again—who do you think I am? Marie Antoinette?
:love:
Really, I think that I may participate in a future contest even if I get 0 votes and everyone else gets loads, for the sheer fun of it. It is not as if the 'worst' writer is going to be banned from further contests, or from writing philosophy posts.
I intend to write one for the next competition.
Well, I think most people who enter would mind if they received no votes. Being judged is personal to the author, even if there is an attempt at objectivity.
I think it an unfair system but that is what exists at the moment. One vote for each member for one story.
At least now the poll has been edited - no longer the 'best' but for our 'favourite'.
I agree that it can be a learning experience for all. Whatever the ratio of fun and seriousness involved.
I will be looking for whatever philosophical message or element, if any, is lying within the lines.
Quoting Benkei
'Pussies', huh ? Ridiculous but hope it makes you feel 'better'.
So much for the thing being about fun and not value judgements.
Some have a gift for the art of writing creative stories. Some learn techniques if they are drawn to that type of writing. I admire them.
Most appreciate the story-tellers' passion and desire to post, for whatever reason, and will enjoy the read and how it makes them think as well as feel.
For what it's worth, I think the stories should have been given greater prominence and not hidden in the sub-forum of the Lounge in a thread which has the same title as the one on the Main page.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/37/short-story-competition
It is confusing.
Why the reluctance to move them and Poll to the 'Symposium' to head up the Main Discussion ?
@Baden - Come on, you know it makes sense. To make them visible; easier to find and read.
All the better to have 'fun' :cool:
Actually, I have 'failed' in quite a few things in life; including some exams. So, if I get 0 I may be able to accept it bravely and, not give up writing fiction. Sometimes, our failures enable us to go deeper and can even have a transformational role. But, I am also saying this for anyone else who may be feeling this way too. At least, my own entry was written a few years ago, so I am probably less attached to it than if I had written it recently.
I think it in sharing writing, we have to accept 'rejections' and carry on rather than being broken by them. Some people seem to succeed in absolutely everything, whereas others have more downs than ups. Yet, the more we take risks, there is more likelihood that some ups will appear.
No :sweat: pressure. Thanks!
This is exactly the excuse pussies make. It's all about talent and being gifted, instead of, I don't know, making an effort? Anybody can express themselves creatively. Nobody is asking you or expecting you to be the next Dante Alighieri. I have no pretensions about my qualities as a writer but at least I don't hide behind not having a talent or gift to not even try.
"Everyone, including the pussies who didn't write a story,don't be a dick and vote for yourself + sockpuppet voters instabanned. Voting closes on Aug 15th."?
:roll: :lol: 'pussies' and 'dicks', what is it with you guys ?
Quoting Benkei
I'll take your word for it. I didn't say it was all about being talented and gifted, if people want to make the effort that's fantastic. If not, then who the hell cares, huh ? Well, you do, but why ?
???
I don't want to monopolize the front page with non-philosophical threads. But I'll periodically post reminders here.
Reminders are fine, thanks :up:
I understand that you don't want locked threads to monopolise the front page. Too many and it becomes top heavy and we need to scroll down to get to 'real' philosophy.
However, unlike the popular Shoutbox thread, the Story Competition ones are time limited.
They will be moved when it is over, no ? In a couple of weeks.
Afterwards, it would be good if the short stories could be kept in the 'Symposium' or somewhere special.
Not all treasures should be buried away and need a pirate's map to find.
Then again, that could be fun...yo ho ho ho ho et une bouteille de rhum... :party:
Appreciate your time and effort in all of this organising :100:
And for listening and considering...
Maybe the poll could be front page so people who are unaware the contest exists might check it out? You could link to the story sub-forum at the top of the poll op. So far it doesn't seem to be getting out much beyond the little cadre here.
Good idea :up:
Done.
I ABSOLUTELY missed this! :angry:
I am so tired of other people judging what another person is going through!
First of all: any human is allowed by living on this Earth, ultimate privacy when it comes to their individual physical, psychological, physiological and biological health, no matter who they are. Period. Full stop.
The strength to share something as personal as where they are in life, knowing that there will be critics of all kinds, from all around the world, dogging on them personally because of their choice is called: Courage.
Courage is doing what needs to be done before having to do what should be done.
Read that again.
I have nothing but respect for someone who stands up for themselves under sociatal stress.
:100:
But when she forewent Wimbledon, I was nonplussed: would Djoker have skipped a Major over some technical or even philosophical issue? No! Of course not. He wants to be the greatest tennis player of all time, to eclipse Raffa’s and Rodger’s honors...but then he is a white European male, not a woman of color.
Then when I heard that Simone had pulled out of the Olympics gymnastics, I perceived a pattern, and knew that something universal was going on: that this phenomenon represented something—not individual, but rather political...
...and it’s not confined to just women of color: Kaepernick led the way by kneeling during the Star Spangled Banner, and thereby sacrificed his athletic career, with dubious results, and I don’t doubt that some white males will jump on the band-wagon and follow suit. But I guarantee you one of those white males will not be Tom Brady, who eyes another Super Bowl at the age of 44, and will never walk off the field for any reason: they’ll have to drag him off kicking and screaming...
...but my concern about this revolves around the motives of those who participate in it, and of those who, in the press, take it up and feed off of it. Ms. Biles said that she had a case of the “twisties”, and that it typically lasts about two weeks. Why haven’t we ever heard of this from her before? She has obviously suffered from it in the past. Why hasn’t it kept her from winning any of her many previous medals and championships?
She said that she felt a great weight on her shoulders: considered the greatest female gymnast of all time, maybe the greatest gymnast, period, of all time, maybe the greatest athlete, full stop—as you imitators of contemporary lingo like to say—of all time. Well? Can you shoulder the burden or not? You’ve spent your whole life working to become it— why shy away now?
Maybe the pressure was just too much for her and she “choked”. Congratulations to her for having come so far before she did. But no congratulations from me for jumping on the mental health bandwagon to excuse it. That’s just a cop-out. Tom Brady wouldn’t condone it; Michael Jordon wouldn’t condone it (in practice, I mean, not in speech). Serena Williams wouldn’t condone it (look how long and hard she has fought to surpass Margarette Court’s Grand Slam record!).
In fine, I think this latest movement of athletes of color to fold under pressure and then appeal to popular sentiment to bolster their weakness is really just a cop-out.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_610a17bce4b038cedb395c51/amp
You seem to be implying athletes of color are weak, which is blatantly racist. Cop-out? Are you oblivious to the irony in that assertion?
Anyway, you want to question the motives of athletes of color who back out of tournaments for mental health issues, which seems suspect IMO. I am more curious as to the reason you feel the need to connect these incidents into some universal conspiracy. Do you seriously believe these athletes do not want to compete, or would rather make some political statement than do so? What reason do have to doubt their motives/intentions? The only reason I can think of is that it’s convenient in that it fits the racist narrative you’re trying to push, that people of color are inferior.
I'm announcing that I will leave a comment on each entry that receives a vote. If multiple votes, still just one comment.
Quoting Baden
Sound advice about keeping the focus on what motivates you. Repeated here.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/aug/05/ive-been-poor-for-a-long-time-after-many-rejections-karen-jennings-is-up-for-the-booker
Quoting Guardian: Karen Jennings up for the Booker
So, writing as a way to understand X, Y or Z.
And to draw attention to important issues.
Believe in the work, as well as yourself.
How inspirational is that.
:up:
Btw, I reckon the standard of critique on the stories is very good so far. Thanks for making the effort to those who have. Because I know who wrote what, I think I'll stay on the sidelines though.
It is interesting about what are the measures and Baden's suggestion, 'Your main competition is yourself', because sometimes it is hard enough to put pen to paper, let alone write something which can move others.
Writing taste is so subjective and often people see the main thing as being published, but I have to say that beyond that, I read so many novels that have been published and they do absolutely nothing for me at all. So, in a way, literature, as well as music and art reveal the complex area between subjectivity and intersubjectivity.
Also, I was just listening to an album by Purple Mountains, which features the singer from the Americana band, the Silver Jews. It was written shortly before he killed himself. It was regarded by many as pure genius, and ranked as being the best album of 2019 by music critics. So, here we have a singer whose work was regarded as great and a great long history of achievements but it didn't really help him, even if it meant a lot for others. Actually, even though when I first listened to the album I could see its beauty, when I listened to it today, I found it rather miserable. The arts do relate to and reveal subjective states.
For me, the main message from the article was:
Quoting Amity
You can't draw attention to what you think is important without publishing it in some form or another, no ?
Why do you write ? To understand an issue, your self, others - and then to share ?
Quoting Jack Cummins
How do you know it didn't help him ?
I probably suggested that the making of the album didn't help him because he committed suicide, even though he was probably aware that the album was considered as great because it got wonderful reviews straight away. I am working from the assumption that suicide is one of the worst possibilities in life. I am inclined to think that it is better to be unable to create successful art, although I do see creativity as one of the most important aspects of life and, do believe that the creative act may involve transformative and transcendent itself. Of course, it may be that the tortured artists, such as Van Gogh, may still leave behind a vision which is transformative for others.
As far as sharing of writing, I do think that it is important, although I am aware of many people who do write in notebooks and don't ever plan to share with anyone. One thing which I have thought about during this competition is how different it is just submitting a story rather than reading it out. Initially, reading it in a group was unnerving but in some ways, I think that performance in such a way, can reveal narrative voice. I think it in the future, I will try to think about how writing can stand on the page rather than if I am able to present it through reading it out.
Sometimes, suicide is a welcome release from mental torment. I am not sure that the success of the album was a main factor in his suicide. But who knows...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berman_(musician)
Quoting Jack Cummins
He committed suicide after a long history of coping with treatment resistant depression with a previous suicide attempt. Substance abuse. Also, suffered from high anxiety...and a whole lot more issues...
Quoting Wiki: David Berman
He won't be the first or last artist who suffered.
Their creativity might have helped them...but also brought misery...and v.v.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Quoting Jack Cummins
Writing and reading aloud can do both.
Narrative voice:
https://getproofed.com/writing-tips/basics-narrative-voice/
Interesting to talk...
:100:
Why did you pick and read 'em ?
Quoting Jack Cummins
This is so obvious. Our subjective states of awareness and appreciation change according to context and circumstance.
So, what did 'absolutely nothing for you' before might do 'something for you' in the future...
Either way you learned something.
As you showed reference to the singer in Purple Mountains, I am wondering about whether you have listened to the album. I had read the reviews and was planning to buy it and, meanwhile, I read about his suicide. I don't know much about his life but it does seem that so many creative artists do attempt or commit suicide. I don't know whether the process of creativity takes people into perilous states or whether some sensitive people are more creative.
I also had a creative writing tutor, who had published novels, who used to joke that it was not possible to become a successful writer without becoming an alcoholic. There does appear to be a tradition of this, including Kerouac and Raymond Carver. I would say that drinking coffee or drinking alcohol seem to affect writing differently. But, I think that coffee works better for stimulating the sharp rationality of philosophy. I think that alcohol does free up the imagination but It is probably best not to follow this route, even if it created a winning entry...
Nope.
I don't really understand your logic of only making a comment on a story once it has received a vote. It seems like saying that you will only ever take an interest in a song if it is in the charts. But, obviously you can decide on your own rationale for what you wish to comment upon. Personally, I try to read the stories independently of others views and not just on the basis of how they have been voted, especially as no story has received more than 2 votes and half the stories have no votes at present. I thought that the comments were really meant to help the voting process.
I think that a bit of alcohol can help get one started on many projects but I am sure that more people end up becoming alcoholics than writers. I certainly don't drink alcohol daily, but I have used caffeine ever since I used caffeine tablets for writing college essays. But, I do think that it is possible to do studying, writing and other activities without stimulants. Part of it is probably ritualistic and gives a false sense of creativity. I went through a phase of smoking cannabis to write college essays, but I had to edit it because I wrote a lot, but so much was complete rubbish. I think that it is easy when intoxicated to go into flight of ideas, but then, realise later, how it is just this. But, as children we do so much naturally and, probably we still can, but it is easy to think that we need something to go further.
But, even though it may seem stupid discussion on this thread, I think that it is a dilemma and temptation for creativity. I even have a book on my shelf called 'Rapture' by David Punter which looks at the relationship between addiction, states of consciousness and literature. Of course, Jim Morrison spoke of wishing to, 'Break on through to the other side', and it can be enticing, but there are probably many who get lost in the shamanic journeys.
There were many American poets and novelists and short story writers of the last century who were alcoholics, and not by our contemporary low-bar standards. I think the most famous example would be William Faulkner, a classic binge alcoholic. I believe Hemingway was very prone to drink—and committed suicide.
Quoting Jack Cummins
Of the two uses of alcohol I have heard of, one is for the benefit of the citizenry, one for that of philosophy. Plato, in The Laws, describes how the soldier ought to be forced to drink to excess in order to resist the tendency induced by that beverage to lay down his guard and do or say intemperate things...
...on the other hand, either Leo Strauss, or Allan Bloom, suggested that wine is useful to philosophy in that it frees the soul to seriously consider the contemplation of ridiculous things...like those that were considered in The Republic...or elsewhere.
As far as caffeine goes, I’m like you: I first became acquainted with it as a means to stay awake for exams, or to finish papers for classes in college. It is a great way to overcome the previous night’s occupation in beer or wine.
I don't drink either because I am allergic to it.
Yet I still have a splitting headache, I am incredibly tired and I am finding my way on my own.
I'm changing my own lightbulbs today.
WTF is the difference?
Lack of appreciation?
Do I want to surround myself with people who celebrate one another as we each come into our own voice?.Damn right I do.
Do I expect it?
Maybe after 30 years? Just a little?
Expectations my friends. Be careful who you set them for and prepared to be disappointed if they were expectations on anyone but yourself.
Negative attitude? Realistic view?
And those who somehow come back again and again realize that traumatic or sublime, weird or psychadelic memories are the voices of the muse which is (mostly) mute when we're drunk or wasted.
That's because there is no logic there. You can't understand something that does not exist. So relax, and enjoy.
But didn't you study literature?
Reminds me of this:
If that's true, then I'd love to see Baden's critiques, even if after the voting ends.
That question. Who is it addressed to ?
Never formally studied lit at uni. Science and social science were my subject areas.
Never mind then! :naughty:
:sweat:
Oh, the question was for you...thanks for clearing that up...I think.
@Benkei's link takes us to a reply from you to me.
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/575676
And the question wasn't there. I thought you might have been asking me...and then thought better of it.
OK - cos I could tell you a story - if you really, really wanted :wink:
The question took me right back to English class at secondary school.
A failed prelim, and just scraped to a much-needed Higher qualification.
Despite my lifelong love of reading, I had a hellish time with 'English' until a really brilliant and inspiring teacher came along. Saved by an angel :pray: :sparkle:
Oh, I could spin a few yarns with some fiction added, I guess.
Hmmm... :chin:
Probably because it was your highest grade.
No now because thinking, me, I write. Much more clearly. So no not.
I think the contest should not have consisted of a short novel, but a short philosophical essay. It is my opinion.
There's actually a forum category for article submissions. It's not a contest, but it is a place where people can have their prepared philosophical articles posted.
Mercy C, I see...
@Hanover
@Baden
@Benkei
@Hypericin
@180 Proof
@Leghorn
@Noble Dust
@god must be atheist
@darthbarracuda
@Jack Cummins
An AI program Benkei found
@tim wood
Feel free to guess wrote what. I'll leave it to the authors to confirm.
Seriously?
Benkei wrote some of it but it counts as the AI's entry. That one was for fun.
Taking your numbers, 25-50% of our regular users bothering to read all those stories and vote seems quite high. The percentage of the general population who would do the same is likely considerably lower.
Repost author's list as a new thread or include in the OP so it's not all just on some random page?
I'm almost certain Dead Baby Shoes was from one of the mods. It's has the signature scent of the intellectual, often outrageous wry and snark one observes here after a while. Untitled, too. New word I learned, btw. (thanks, tim!)
I didn't vote because I wasn't able to read all 12 stories with absolute focus due to my schedule, etc. I'm sure many who didn't vote (and plenty who did) read at least one or more, but unless you read all of them, it wouldn't really be fair nor proper to vote at all. At least, that's my reasoning.
Putting a notice and link in the OP.
:up:
Definitely hesitant to guess what story was written by AI. If I'm wrong at best it's a slap in the face or at worst a window to existential crisis.
Wow, this one is the real mystery. Is the literary Turing test solved? Even if @Benkei mucked with it I'm ashamed I didn't spot it.
I’d wager against you that Jack wrote untitled.
' Widdeneck'. That is an English-sounding town.. good detective work. Also kudos to tim for posting the first proper, full guess. I'm afraid I just don't know the community and its members mannerisms and tones well enough to.
Remembrance - Tim wood
Same here.
The problem is if you do a proper guess you out your own. I guess you need to swap your own with one you don't know anyway.
That, yes...but mostly just the general style, which seemed to cry out, “Jack Cummins!”
Excellent guess!
Dead Baby Shoes - Hanover
Flight - god must be atheist.
Ghost in my Hands - Jack Cummins
Dead Baby Shoes - @Hanover
Hitchhikers - @Baden
Good Stew - @Noble Dust
I Never Was - @180 Proof
Flight - @Leghorn
A Weak Foundation - @Benkei
Stanley the Reindeer - @god must be atheist
Untitled - @An AI program Benkei found
Ghosts in my hands - @Jack Cummins
Remembrance - @tim wood
We are not alone - @darthbarracuda
A Short History of the Future of the Expanding Universe - @hypericin
Note: I did not write A Short History of the Future of the Expanding Universe
Dead Baby Shoes- @Hanover
Hitchhikers- @180 Proof
Stanley the Reindeer- @Baden
Ghosts in my Hands- @Jack Cummins
I Never Was- @Noble Dust
Untitled- @darthbarracuda
We are not Alone- @hypericin
Good Stew- AI
A Weak Foundation- @god must be atheist
Flight- @Benkei
Remembrance- @Leghorn
I was convinced that a few of the authors were people who I have found out did not even enter the contest, so I am a bit lost. So, now my only guess is that @180 Proof wrote 'Hitchhikers'.
A couple of people have guessed correctly that mine was, 'Ghost in My Hands'. Perhaps, the giveaway was the whining voice of the narrator. I would say that the feedback I got was fairly useful for thinking about. What I was interested in really was how people thought that the story ended too soon because I do find it hard to know how much to tie up ends or leave it open. But, I think that the story could have been made a bit longer.
"Untitled" - [s]Benkei[/s] (darthbarracuda)
"Ghost in My Hands" - Jack Cummins
*
My favorite is "Dead Baby Shoes" by ??? (Hanover)
Another favorite is "I Never Was" by ??? (Benkei)
I voted for "Remembrance" by ??? (tim wood)
Btw, I wrote "Good Stew".
Another special thanks to @Amity who took her (?) time out to take us along how each story affected her.
Hint: I got a compliment from a long standing poster that to me personally meant more than an up vote.
Dang it! Makes total sense, but it was too funny, well done Benkei.
I was pretty convinced that you wrote 'Hitchhikers', so I am really surprised that you wrote, ' Good Stew'. I also thought that one was definitely by Kenosha Kid and one was by the Madfool, and one by Shawn. It seems that there are a few surprises
Dead Baby Shoes @Hanover - you people are stupid if you don't get this
Remembrance @god must be atheist
Stanley @darthbarracuda
and of course we know Ghosts In My Hands is @Jack Cummins
@Benkei's AI program I would put as the Short History (which made me laugh out loud)
@180 Proof has claimed Good Stew which surprised me, because I had him at Flight
The rest I don't know you enough to know. And I guess I've given enough hints as to what's mine, although so far y'all are way off.
I read all of them in one day while at work. I'm not joking; it's not that hard. Maybe that's just an arbiter of me not fitting in with the philosophy crowd here. :up:
This entire post throws me into an existential crisis.
I am more in agreement with you about having gone through the stories really quickly. I saw them come up on my phone while standing at the bus stop, and had done my first read by the time I got off the bus. I do think that I rushed my vote through, and should have given it more careful thought, and I definitely liked @Amitys approach. But, too fast or too slow, in evaluation of stories is the question.
That was my guess now that I know that @Jack Cummins wrote "Ghost in My Hands".
I didn't think that you wrote "Ghost in My Hands", but did think that @Jack Cummins wrote "Good Stew".
I still don't know who wrote the "I Never Was", which I voted for because of that it is a literal story within a story.
I voted this one too :scream:
Interesting. I went back and looked at my review, and my comment was that it lacked the perspective of a participant, which is consistent with it being AI and not having an actual first person to narrate from. I'm sure an AI program could be designed to do better in that regard, but I remember that entry as being unusual in that it read like a recitation of facts unlike the others.
Now we'll all be on the lookout for the AI trick.
And yes, I wrote Dead Baby Shoes. It was easy. Totally autobiographical.
:clap: :up: Well done!
Well guessed, sir. :100:
Quoting Noble Dust
:lol:
Good work. That one I thought had the most depth. I mean, other than mine.
To save time, I thought to use the Apollo mission as a basis, which gave me characters and an opening. Unfortunately, my very superficial reading left huge gaps which were noticed and would've helped the story a lot. I'm actually tempted to rewrite it, with Michael in the right place and a limited viewpoint.
So to give you an idea what the AI text is that was kept in, it's the underlined part.
We’re not alone
"Ignition sequence start..."
"5... 4... 3... 2... 1... 0... All engines running."
"Lift off! We have a lift off! Thirty-two minutes past the hour; lift of of the Apollo 11."
People across the world held their breath as the first manned mission to the moon launched into space. Minutes later Neil, Buzz and Michael, the three astronauts, were clear of the earth's atmosphere, weightless in outer space. They tested the radio. Confirmed that their guidance converged. Everything was looking good.
The astronauts didn't know what to expect. Everything was new and though professional as they were, their nerves still played up. They were excited. They circled the Earth once and then started on their translunar injection trajectory. The moon became bigger and bigger as they entered an elliptic orbit, to finally land on their second turn. Neil would be the first to leave and step on the greyed out moon with the Earth a small blue ball in the sky.
"That's one small step for a man. One giant... " [u] Neil Armstrong's head spun. He looked over to see what was in the corner of his eye. Something was coming over towards the lunar module. He saw it take shape. He saw it's grotesque, insectoid body. It stepped forward but faster than Neil's eyes could see it shrunk into the shadows. He shook his head and closed the door.
Neil felt the lurch of the spacecraft as it flipped end over end as it landed on its back while he held on for dear life. Neil knew it was about to get ugly. The spacecraft would probably explode, leaving his two compatriots behind.[/u] He had to be quick. Of course, on the off chance there would be alien life, the US army had insisted on taking guns aboard. Neil struggled to open the door but it was stuck from the impact. He pulled with all his might. Michael and Buzz were yelling inside: "What's going on? What's happening?" As Neil finally managed to open the door, Buzz shouted: "Watch out!" But it was too late. A rust-brown antenna whipped around Neil's neck, it's tip breaking the glass face guard. After all his training, Neil reflexively held his breath as he was tossed up towards the Earth, spinning. He wasn't slowing down.
Buzz yelled angrily, realised the danger they were in, aimed the modified M-60 at the window and squeezed the trigger. Glass shards exploded outwards, bullets whipped through the air hitting carapace with dull metallic clinks, like rain falling on a tin roof - with more or less the same effectiveness. A pincer grabbed the window and yanked it out of its hinges with a screech. It casually turned around, aimed and threw it at Neil. It crashed into him and he accelerated further towards Earth.
Michael and Buzz finally saw it as it broke through the doorway. They cried out in unison: "What the fuck!" The insectoid leaped on Buzz, the impact knocking him senseless as the pincers broke bones and tore his ligaments under the loud hiss of his his suit's air escaping. Michael froze and tried to back away but there was nowhere to go. The last thing he saw was a multifaceted reflection of himself in the soulless eye of his enemy. It's mandibles clicked and hissed, as the antenna on his head shot out like a spear, piercing Michael in the stomach. He sagged to his knees. He took out a serrated knife and stabbed at it, but the creature's armour-plated, red exoskeleton was too hard. "No... stop," whispered Michael as he was lifted upside down, sliding on the antenna towards the cockroach's face. Michael's blood dripped on its mandibles, which shuddered to guzzle it into its throat. It casually flung Michael aside with a bone-shattering thud against the wall. As Michael's vision grew dark, he saw it tear off Buzz' arm and drink his blood. It looked at Earth through the tiny porthole. It rasped and clicked again. It carefully pressed a button on the console. And another. Michael faded.
Even though you wrote it in this way, for some time I was expecting it to win because it had a such a cyberpunk effect. I have read a fair amount in the alternative science fiction scene and I think that it would probably be very successful for that genre.
I can confirm that I didn't write 'Untitled' because I have already said that I wrote, 'Ghosts in My Hands'. When I used to go to writing groups the facilitator used to often say to each of us, 'Did it really happen?' So, I will say that mine was true and that I threw the bundle of twigs in the river in Putney, but I moved out of the house shortly afterwards. I still live with my lifeline having an end like a fork, so I hope it doesn't mean anything too sinister.
Wrong BTW.
Good job. :party: Got my vote.
Nope.
AI no punctuate. Reassuring.
Drink in the belly of the day.
So did I get the moral of the story about right? (see comments with story)
And whoever wrote Hitchhikers, what's that about?
@Baden you threw me with some of the language in Stanley; I thought it was written by an American, so I had it as calisbury (can never tag them properly) before the list of writers was revealed.
Second!
Very cool, I wondered about that. I felt like there were some autobiographical elements in other stories too, and there are some in mine as well. :up:
Cheers dudes, and kudos on your entries too. The high standard bloody impressed me. Most of all though I'm just relieved not to have been beaten by Hansover. :razz:
Quoting Shawn
One dick vote would have swung it. :sweat:
Quoting Noble Dust
I thought it might. :naughty: Glad my American voice was authentic enough not to raise suspicion. Other stuff about the story was a bit dodgy. The feedback was super helpful though and I fixed some of the inconsistencies and over-writing. Many thanks also to @180 Proof for encouraging me to enter in the first place.
Btw, I've decided not to do a run-off because A. We know who some of the authors are now and B. I don't want to add anything that wasn't specified before the competition started. So, fair idea, but maybe for next time.
Most importantly, when is the next one? Right away, I hope?
I wrote Hitchhikers. It’s definitely a bit convoluted. But it’s open for interpretation, really. All 3 characters are looking for some sort of of savior; they’re all dreaming of some future state of safety that may or may not exist. The doppelgänger theme was actually the impetus for the whole thing, but maybe it didn’t quite integrate with the other elements.
Really appreciated everyone’s comments!
Cheers. :party:
I voted for your story. To be honest, I liked it because it reminded me of two authors: James Joyce and Samuel Beckett. These two were very good at writing books or plays about time, dreams, awareness, "dejá vú" (as you explained) etc...
When I finished reading your story I thought: "Whoever wrote this he has read Ulysses or Malone Dies previously" :lol:
Woofarer would never portray Gods as vicious cuts. :lol:
The God Who Isn't Here disappoints you, yet again.
I wrote Flight. One of the most rewarding parts of this was getting to read other people's interpretations. But no one hit on what I was going for, which was a metaphor for our reaction to climate change, with the plane of course being the planet. Even though we are all at least on some level aware of our oncoming doom, most of us (including myself) don't have the courage to truly face it. So instead, in our different ways we turn away, distract ourselves, and otherwise take "flight" from this reality. As the reality becomes more insistent, this effort becomes more desperate (the wife at the end).
:lol:
Thanks! I haven't read those stories or even those writers. I'm a sci-fi and fantasy nerd and haven't read "literature" in at least a decade.
Quoting tim wood
Correct!
I enjoyed Flight the most :up:
Ha! Crazy!
Whoa. Cool experiment. I had no idea.
Curious as to who has the writing style for "Hitchikers". I thought that the story itself was a little incoherent, but the descriptions within it were phenomenal.
You have some serious writing chops. :clap: my criticism was how shitty all of the characters were, but that aspect does make more sense in light of the allegory.
Thanks! Twas I. I elaborated a bit just above.
I thought that the thing about the notebook was great, as I have said so numerous times already.
Well, mystery solved then. Your commentary adds to it as well, I think.
True enough. I'm alternately impressed and annoyed by Zizek, I'll have to check it.
Thank you! I'm also definitely influenced by the tradition of negativity and cynicism in modernish fiction.
The feedback on the incoherency is helpful; I'll definitely be editing it and potentially submitting it to some journals for the hell of it. The problem is I do enjoy a little incoherency. :joke: David Lynch, etc. Life doesn't always make sense. I like stories that reflect that.
Dang! Not right about Flight and I lose the guessing game.
Great concept (that I missed).
Well done
I voted for The Hitchhikers!
Very nice launch to a full blown book :flower:
Thanks Tiff!
Quoting ArguingWAristotleTiff
:chin: Then I would need a plot...
Well, my mind continued to imagine after all the words you wrote were consumed. :love:
I Never Was - @Benkei
Good Stew - @180 Proof
Untitled - @darthbarracuda
Stanley The Reindeer - @Baden
We're Not Alone - @Benkei/AI
Hitchhikers - me
Dead Baby Shoes - Handsallover
Flight - @hypericin
Ghosts In My Hands - @Jack Cummins
Which leaves us with
A Short History Of The Expanding Universe
A Weak Foundation
Remembrance
Hmmm...how about
A Short History - @tim wood
A Weak Foundation - @Leghorn
Remembrance - @god must be atheist
Remembrance - @tim wood He guessed everybody but himself
A Weak Foundation - @Leghorn He clearly said "great guess!" when someone guessed I wrote this one, to throw people off
A Short History - @god must be atheist
I think that 'A Short History..' is by @god must be atheist
'A Weak Foundation' is by @tim wood
'Remembrance' is by @Leghorn
I think if @hypericin doesn't mind submitting another story, the mods probably will, and if that seems to be what people want, that would be one way of deciding...
Though then again I did write a backup story[s](and tried to sneak it in with a sockpuppet)[/s]
I hear tell the next one might not be for many months. Also, I'd consider omitting that last sentence.
Quoting Baden
Far as I'm concerned, my job is done here. It's been cool but it's enough work for me until next time and I think the outcome is all well and good.
Apparently the three remaining stories/authors are:
A Short History Of The Expanding Universe
A Weak Foundation
Remembrance
tim wood
Leghorn
god must be athiest
..
It was suggested that since tim guessed every story except 'Remembrance' that logically must be his of course he simply could have thrown us a curve ball.
Short History seems spontaneous, loosely constructed, almost silly and haphazard, yet with at least semi-detailed knowledge of science and matter. I guess I'm going with tim wood.
Weak Foundation I haven't read but upon skimming seems to be about relationships without getting too .. emotional as in Remembrance, gonna go with you on that one.
Remembrance is really mushy and sad which though could be simply pandering to a certain genre, seems to involve regret or some sort of incomplete quest for understanding or happiness not found in day to day life. for that, by the name, i'll say god must be athiest.
Shots in the dark perhaps, but all i got.
I voted for the atheist God out of pity, and because I wrote something the other day that upset the poor fellow. I am sorry for that, btw.
180 Proof said he voted for Remembrance.
No you're not. I can tell from how you play chess.
Where and what was it?
So, you voted without having read all of the story? I must admit I did the same for a couple of them: I just couldn’t stand to read them through—I had read enough. But at least I made the effort!...
...seems like a lot of you didn’t.
Truth be told, I am sorry, and voted for Untitled. I’ve always been a sucker for a meaningless saga.
Quoting Leghorn
In this topic I think, and that his character stands out like a sore thumb. I don’t know why he took such an offense at that. It could mean that his good character stands out. He is a reasonably intuitive man, however.
:victory: I was most inspired by Céline, Borges and Houellebecq. Céline especially I adore (not the man, just his literature).
"A Visitor"? :chin:
Damn, does our atheist overlord know enough about science to write A Short History? I can see the style matching his, uh, style on the forum.
@hypericin Flight was very close to getting my vote. At first, I didn’t read into it, or even consider it was an allegory, but @Outlander(?)’s post made me think more about it, and my interpretation of it afterwards was really enjoyable.
@Hanover got my vote. In the end it was the most memorable. I enjoyed the humor. But, for future reference, I think it would have been cool to have categories for the voting (I.e. funniest, deepest, best written, etc.).
@Noble Dust I really liked Hitchhikers. I think the sort of “Twilight Zone” vibe worked. It’s surrealism/incoherence didn’t bother me. It felt like it was just descriptive at first about the incident, and then turned into a sort of daydream or the imagination of the driver.
@darthbarracuda I also enjoyed your story. I like that it was unconventional. There was nothing spectacular about the writing style, which fit perfectly for the telling of Auguste’s unspectacular life.
@tim wood Remembrance was nice. Very personal and intimate, but I couldn’t shake the feeling that it was sort of cliche; thinking of a loved one on one’s deathbed. But it did illustrate well how sometimes the people no longer in our lives impact it the most, and how oftentimes this goes unspoken.
@Jack Cummins I think my issue with your story is just about taste. Ghost stories always have that affect on me. But it didn’t strike me as poorly written or anything like that. Just not my cup of tea.
@Baden At times I liked the juxtaposition of happy, cheery holidays and abusive asshole, but at other times it seemed forced. Very well written though.
@Benkei I Never Was sort of falls into the same issue as Jack’s. I just can’t get into Sci-Fi. But, I did think the disappearing notebook was a novel way of writing about time travel.
Congrats to everyone who participated. I thought it was really cool to see everyone’s creative side, and enjoyed the competition. I hope to have something to submit for the next one.
Yes! Love surrealism in all it's forms. We're on the same wavelength. :fire: Thanks. :pray:
None taken. Apologies for the difficult (mannered) style; thanks for reading the tale anyway.
Not sure. I was going for a folklore-like feel so unconsciously fantasy (pulp?) writers like Poul Anderson, Michael Moorcock, Octavia Butler, maybe Zora Neal Thurston too. More rewriting is needed to find 'my voice' for this kind of tale. Thanks for asking.
What was it about my story for you? I felt insecure about it. I have very little time between family life and my new(ish) job so felt this got too little attention. I sent poor Baden three versions because I picked out errors.
Don't even mention my name after you trashed my story bro'. :lol:
Refrained mostly from comments on stories due to knowing who wrote what and resulting difficulty being objective but fwiw I thought the best written were Good Stew (I got Cormac MCCarthy vibes) and Dead Baby Shoes (Salingeresque), and the most intriguing, Hitchikers and Flight.
Yours was the most complex and developed on an interpersonal level, with complex motives and behaviors. If it had an ounce of truth, kudos for being vulnerable. If it was just the result of training in creative writing, good work as well.
I'd also say that you suffered from a rules problem, which points to a just god, considering you wrote the rules. You received rave reviews from the outset, so our communistic comrades quickly began spreading out the votes to make sure everyone got a fair helping. Better would have been secret vote totals until the end.
I can see Holden Caulfield in my story now that you point it out. He's gotten a bit more fucked up over the years, but I can see his voice there.
It stemmed from the phrase "Soft light on the fur" and originally was the start of an abandoned novella. I worked it into a short story because I needed one I hadn't put online or in a self-published book for the competition. No conscious intention or planning but I kind of like the little world that turned out.
Quoting Hanover
We need offline voting for the next one to give us more options. Maybe someone can figure out how to restrict that to members.
Quoting Hanover
Yes, neat and naturalistic. :up:
That is some addictive shit. :starstruck:
It is a concise, symmetrical, even fractal-like meditation on déjà vu stuck inside a time travel Möbius loop. That's why I had commented
Quoting 180 Proof
Makes sense if you're familiar with Gödel's time travel speculation and his sad demise. Anyway, a brilliant Borges-like construct that reads effortlessly.
Quoting Baden
These compliments – suggestive comparisons first to Gene Wolfe and now Cormac McCarthy (another of my all-time favorites!) – are the kind of consolation prizes worth getting with only 1 vote out of 28. :sweat: Thanks, man! Btw, I'd read all the stories in one sitting on the first day and according to my notes on my phone provisionally picked "Stanley the Reindeer" though I voted for "Remembrance" in the end because @tim wood's Biercean flashback (also see my undergrad lit. teacher Tobias Wolff's story "Bullet to the Brain") was too damn good not to get a vote and also because it looked like "Stanley ..." was running away with the damn win right from the get go. Well done, amigo!
Shout out to @Amity for your charitable and patient reviews which had prompted me to reread each story as each was treated to your thorough commentary. I delayed my vote until you'd gone through them all and then until almost the last minute because it still bothers me that we only had a single vote poll rather than weighted voting (& offline / hidden as @Hanover points out) for such a motley group of quality entries.
Second that. :clap:
Because there are just so many words that rhyme with Nantucket.
I blame Ozi. I just went back and did a search for "snorted" and there were seven snorts. That damn horse can be a bit irritating.
:up:
No need to apologize. At the very least it was interesting to read a style I’m not accustomed to.
The only one I can think of is anymancansuckit.
For me, it was the quickest ever learning experience re short fiction stories and how to 'judge' them.
Knowledge gleaned from posters ( you know who you are !) and also from websites.
I included their links and quotes along the way - for later reference, I can view my 'Comments History'.
It's so easy to lose any 'good stuff' in the various discussion threads. As it is, I can hardly find the 'Short Stories' - the links to which seems to be nested or they individually spread their wings across the Lounge.
[ The direct link:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/categories/37/short-story-competition
While visiting relatives up North (Scotland), I peeked in to follow the 'guessing game' and the authors' comments to each other. Totally fascinating.
I can reveal right now that I only guessed one correctly !
@Jack Cummins's ' Ghosts in My Hands' - how could I not, having participated in some of his thread discussions.
I voted for 'Dead Baby Shoes'. I had @180 Proof in mind as I read and commented.
Even though I knew it was @Hanover who had referenced the original, he had so underplayed his writing abilities, I thought it might have been the source of inspiration for 180. Wrong !
Only Hanover, the author. knows who or what coloured in the characters and their journey.
The only other author I took a stab at guessing was @Wayfarer.
I had an idea that he wrote 'Good Stew' the Sagacious Saga. Probably why I became confused as I read it. Something didn't sit well with re those Bad Gods. However, it felt like only the beginning of a much longer story...things coulda changed. After all 'Nothing is For Sure'...
I had no idea that @180 Proof was the author. It didn't seem like his style - but then again, what the hell do I know !!
As to the other amazing authors who participated. And the sneaky AI gem. Wow :fire:
I got so much more out of the stories by following the afore-mentioned advice.
It's all about reading carefully with patience and trying to understand any 'message'.
Pretty much a lighter version of philosophy's 'Principle of Charity':
https://philosophy.lander.edu/intro/charity.shtml
Of course, I got one spectacularly wrong:
@hypericin's 'Flight'
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11531/flight
All the stories linger in my mind for one reason or another.
I don't think I understand all the sources of inspiration or how the authors went about the story-making process. Never mind. As long as it all happened. And people gained from it.
I listened to more stories when away. Looking at old B&W photos, recalling - I feel the need to write.
Wonder if I can adapt 'flash-fiction' to genealogy narratives ?
To add colour to the black and whites. How fair/unfair would that be ? I guess 'false memories' take us partly there...
Anyway, thanks again - and I so appreciated the feedback to my comments.
It makes it all worthwhile :sparkle:
Interesting to hear how you made notes on your phone. Had you downloaded the stories there ?
I did it the old-fashioned way and scribbled notes on paper. Unfortunately, the scrawls became a bit more erratic and scrambly so should probably find a better method :smirk:
You and others have a helluva lot of knowledge - 'tim wood's Biercean flashback' and mentioning your undergrad lit. teacher...
I agree re the voting system. 'Too damned good not to get a vote'.
In any kind of competition there are different levels - lightweight to heavyweight, each with a separate 'fight' or flight...so, weighted voting would make sense.
Even though it was an enjoyable experience, I doubt whether I could do the same again re comments.
My neck and shoulders would never forgive me, not to mention my wee grey brain cell... :wink:
Sounds like it could have been a sagacious saga after all, no ?
:chin:
Thanks again to all who left appreciative comments and mentions.
Thought I'd pick this one out. Cos, if I remember correctly, @tim wood thought not to write a story.
Glad you changed your mind :up:
You are right about it being a 'considerable effort' - you know how lazy I can be :wink:
My comments were partly to acknowledge the work involved. Some made it look so easy.
They were all fun to read :party:
-------
Really though, using AI, that was incredible.
Thanks for the explanation. Now, I want a link :nerd:
I doubt it.
Even thinking of spending less time on TPF.
I have been distracted from a project I really need to get on with.
Then again:
'Nothing is For Sure'...
I am looking for something to help write stories based on genealogy and historical research.
For example, male family members in WW1 - to include photos, war records, forms etc.
Do you think Scrivener would be suitable for that ?
How has it helped you ?
It was a pleasure and I'm glad you have replied to one of my speculations. I wish more would do that.
I reckon that:
1. All authors should return to their stories to claim authorship ! Instead of @Baden...
2. There, the follow-up answers to comments would be a natural continuation. And not lost in this general discussion.
But we're here now...so, a simple link back:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/11520/hitchhikers
Your story was most intriguing with beautiful descriptions - I mentioned one which I thought was of a 'portal'. It began: Quoting Noble Dust
Could you say more about that ?
I think it must have been the most difficult 'vision' to share with a reader.
Quoting Noble Dust
Ah, OK... so another journey ahead... :cool:
Quoting Noble Dust
This was also picked out by @Nils Loc - it made quite an impact. Where did that come from ?
Imagination or experience ?
Quoting Amity
I think only one person mentioned their writing process, the practical aspects of. That was @Wayfarer and he isn't even one of the authors !! It would seem that Scrivener would meet all writing needs...
https://www.literatureandlatte.com/scrivener/overview
Quoting literatureandlatte - scrivener overview
Might give it a go.
What a Sunday Sinner you are :naughty:
So many damned distractions.
I need to return and revive my dead relis. I would like to write at least one story for my Uncle's 85th.
That of his Dad, my Grandad who I never met and who died when Uncle was very young.
We both hadn't a clue until recently what he went through...in WW1...
Scrivener might help - but I would need the Win version.
Thanks, and now - no excuses - right on :cool:
1. I agree.
2. Yes, thanks for reminding me. Today I'll begin following-up.
Btw, I reposted my story so I can edit the working draft maybe in response to the comments. @Baden if there is a better place to repost the story so I can update it with new drafts, even lengthen it, point me there or move it. Seems awkwardly placed in the middle of its own comment section. Thanks.
Will there be a new one? I got some nice ones in my head still.
Reckon it's ok. Seems logical to keep comments and rewrites in one thread. I'll rename the threads to credit the authors though.
Intend to do another at Christmas. :up:
As far as I can see this gives us a useful guideline for submitting and motivating for writing stories. I wrote one which is probably completely gobbledegook. I am not that worried and even if I don't submit a story, I feel that the idea of a goal of a contest in December is useful because sometimes writing with no foreseeable way of sharing writing is a reason to give up writing. So, the way I see it, is that the idea of a future sharing of stories is useful as a way of motivating and inspiring us in writing, which can often be a lonely pursuit, of writing in notebooks.
:cool:
Hi Tiff,
Sorry. I was absent for a while. Yes, once I get out of this rut. Sorry, I'm just not myself lately.
No need to be sorry but I am hoping life will change and work with you, not against you.
Easy for me to say, I get it. Because as I hope for you, I myself feel like a battered peace flag in the middle of a slow moving hurricane.
:pray:
I was tossed a life saver in the power of the word "temporary" that all of THIS is temporary.
I'm not holding my breath.
Hey @Baden :party:
[i]"Put on your red shoes
And dance the blues ...
Let's sway!"[/i]
Hehe, that was one of two songs I remember listening to today after you posted that but before I read it. The other one I dedicate to @Hanover.
Think I promised something for Christmas . Silly me...
I've been toying with some ideas for my next story. Maybe I'll write about a dead baby with no feet. That's sadder than a dead baby with no shoes.
"Baby feet for sale. Never walked on."
Damn! I gave my story idea away. Now I'll have to come up with something else.
[i]"Just like the
Old man in
the book by Nabokov"[/i] :smirk:
This is the current thread: https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/12143/holiday-short-story-competition-discussion
Visitations -- this can only be Hanover.
I'm thinking it's Hanover all along.
“Amnesis”: Wayfarer
“Felice”: really not sure. Praxis? I thought it was Baden originally.
“Oscar and the Coconut”: 180 Proof
I haven’t got a clue about “Common Things” or “Christmas Doing”.
I disagree. @Wayfarer is a tight writer, lol.
The Christmas That Was Not - @jamalrob
A Cross For Maria - @Baden
Felice - @180 Proof
A Christmas Valentines Day Love Story - @Hanover
Common things - @god must be atheist
Oscar and the Coconut - @Shawn
:chin: seems to skew a bit nihilistic for wayfarer
I didn't read it as nihilistic.
Quoting Noble Dust
"The Christmas That Was Not": disagree. My guess is @god must be atheist
hahaha! This is so much! fun.
In that case, he submitted a rough draft. An unfinished one, too. He wrote it in 30 minutes.
Are you an author? You can of course ignore the question.
Maybe I went too far there; but the end of the human race (am I remembering the story right/wrong?) didn't feel like @Wayfarer. The sci-fi of course did, though, so you could be right, especially if it's a snipet of his larger work.
It was so very Russian...
Same. @tim wood perhaps?
Ah yes, so very Hungarian.
I found Gmba's style the first time around a bit feverish but funny, which is the vibe I got on Common Things. Wait, am I remembering this wrong? Hold on.
That was not a mistake. The writer was consistent in his/her reference to the bailiff.
Quoting jamalrob
See below: For example --
Quoting Baden
Wayfarer would not use the word "court" (maybe "council", something, but not court).
The human is anxious -- Wayfarer would not describe it as plain as this. Something stronger could be said here.
Interesting, but wrong :wink:
Same here. I'll say Benkei.
No comment. :cool:
Ah, that's a good guess actually.
Now I'm confused. I'm not falling for it though.
:up:
If you're convincing me you're not The Christmas That Was Not, then I have no clue what you wrote. I don't even know if @hypericin participated. He could be Plum Pie. I could be Plum Pie. I could be Oscar.
Or am I? :joke:
Bahhh
Quoting jamalrob
Wa-wa-wa-w
If @180 Proof isn't Felice I could put him at The Key, although that one felt more like something written by someone who grew up in the 80's or 90's... :chin:
Good point. 180 is clearly much, much older than that.
Maybe I have my math all wrong :groan:
Outlander, john27, and Athena were posting comments about the competition, so maybe they were authors.
Aha! Good to know. I don't know any of them well on here, but I'll be curious to see how they may fit in. :up:
Interesting. I found Oscar a little clunky, which for me doesn't track with 180's Good Soup, which was well written albeit a bit long.
Stew, I believe.
Can we get a list of authors that entered the contest?
:up:
The Christmas That Was Not - @jamalrob
A Cross For Maria - @John
Felice - @180 Proof or Caldwell
A Christmas Valentines Day Love Story - @Hanover
The First Plum of the Season - @Baden
Visitations .... @Nils Loc
Amnesis .... Baden, or some environmentally conscious poster? edit: nahh Amnesis is not Baden.
Common things...,
Yeah, except for three or four it's more difficult than I expected.
Amnesis... I also find it something for Benkei perhaps. Let me look at the legalese.... ;)
Edit: Could be. I find the gods exceedingly petty in the story. It is like some sort of inverted Nietzsche instead of the eternal recurrence of all things we find the instantaneous nothingness of all thinks.
Good point. Now I put Athena at Amnesis.
Than Plum may well be Caldwell, if Clark or Proof wrote Felice. I find it difficult to pin Plum to anyone. Proof could be, but he made a comment comparing it to Borges more or less. Even Proof could not have that kind of audacity could he?, if it was his own work... ;)
I wouldn't be so sure :grin:
I think that@180 Proof wrote the winning entry because it did remind me of his previous entry. I did vote for it, not because I thought that he wrote it but because it stood out as extremely distinct. Of course, I could be wrong as my guesses were way out last time. I am sorry that I haven't paid much attention to the competition this time. I simply had too much stress, but the entries were definitely worth reading.
Sorry, I fell asleep roughly the second I closed the poll. :smile:
A cross for Maria:@180 Proof
The Christmas That Was Not:@god must be atheist
That's it so far actually.
( :naughty: )
Was cool to see the originator of the whole idea show up. :cool:
Agree, and that's no offence to the author of The Ballad who entered as a lighthearted joke. I think it may partly have to do with my request that everyone read all the stories before voting and the fact that there were more of them. But, yes, the system didn't hold up well this time.
Yeah, it was actually well-written and fun for what it was. More the fault of the system as you say.
Quoting jamalrob
Not to mention that faulty word counting machine you had to use.
You mean my brain, yeah. :grimace: :lol: Live and learn, still looking for volunteers to do the [s]stuff I don't want to do[/s] vetting next time.
I nominate Michael.
:clap: :clap: :lol:
I agree :up:
Guess: you wrote The Christmas That Was Not
Terrible admission :down:
But I think you might be the winner :up:
Michael - because he was the Marco madman ? :naughty:
Yes, I thought that was by Shawn as well. Hmmm...
Guess: I think you the author of Visitations.
:cry:
It was the European and recipe foodie vibe that made me do it.
I voted for this one - thought it was Wayfarer. Last time I thought it was W, turned out to be 180 proof.
180 ?
Next up ?
I haven't a clue. No change there. Not Hanover ?
:zip:
No worries... hey, not a bad story at all to be associated with :)
I think Oscar is an early Baden.
Edit: No, I meant Common Things by Baden.
Oscar is by GMBA, right ?
I'm really good at this guessing game :chin:
I know and I agreed:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/642387
Any clue as to Maria ?
Actually I'm feeling almost convinced by this.
Oh, I bloody well give up !
I was beginning to think that Amnesis was written by Tobias...
:groan:
Maria by Hanover, yes ?!
I thought that was too obviously SEXY and he would've been more subtle :smirk:
OK then, Maria is by GMBA - although I edited a previous post to reckon Oscar's was his.
Goddammitall2bits...
Nahh, it is inconsistent. Why would you go through the whole ritual of court and punishment and subsequently make everyone present forget it ever happened? Not something 180 Proof would do. At least I reckon...
@Amity You are right with the foodie vibe... making a bouillabaisse to cheer me up, seldom fails to do so.
Is that a clue to the story ? This is giving me a headache :groan:
Definitely the Christmas that was Not.
Really ?
So I'm wrong about it being by you ? You cannot be serious...
Don't tell me you are Plum person !!
:naughty: :rage: :nerd:
Perhaps... ;)
So far, so... :chin:
On the other hand, maybe that was fiendish deception :chin:
There's a lot of it about :naughty:
Changing thoughts re author of Plum continuously.
Now think it by Baden.
Papa dead. Da-da !
Interesting.
Yes, he is flexible and at ease no matter what style...
Well done him :cool:
Quoting Amity
Nope. :smile:
So, it's jamalrob :up:
And I was right with 'Common Things', yes ?
:zip: :zip:
Damn you :naughty:
Yay, I got the winner :100: :party: :fire:
:rofl:
The author's get to out themselves when they want. :smile: Being honest, I thought (some) authors could be identified fairly easily on a geographical process of elimination combined with a reading of their comments. But I think only one person guessed my story so far.
I know the feeling, the me that wrote my story may have been an impostor returned from the past to fuck with my present. :scream:
OK. That's it. I'm done.
Reading their comments, hah.
They're all sly and wily worms, so they are !
But I thank every one of them.
This has been brill :cool:
A Cross for Maria ?
Correct.
Congratulations !
I loved that. Has never left my mind... :fire:
"A Cross for Maria" Baden
"A Christmastime Valentine's Day Love Story" Hanover
"The Christmas That Was Not" god must be atheist
"The Ballad of Marco" Michael
180 is too much of a literary chameleon for me to guess his.
Otherwise, I don't know. I thought I would've recognized more of them.
OK I give up now.
Appreciate your kind words. :smile:
Same here. Giving up...unless someone feels the need to give more clues...I'm done.
Good fun, though, what ? :smile:
Top notch fun. :up:
Only praxis got it right.
I’m surprised too, you’re name was written all over it. That’s easy to say now of course.
I’ve been anxiously waiting to hear what you have to say about it.
I'm intrigued to know exactly what gave it away, whether it was clues to location or style or whatever.
Quoting praxis
Yeah I'm looking forward to responding to you and others under the story.
Hmm…
Did I not get there eventually ?
You are the winner :fire:
Location, style, and it’s kind of Austeresque, an Author that I know you like.
Yes, you did, eventually! :clap:
Cool. Well remembered. I don't even remember mentioning Auster here myself :grin:
Well, I’m a fan so it stuck.
Well then - I want my slice of the pie.
I had no idea that you were such an awesome writer.
Who's a darling little puggie, then :kiss:
Funny thing is though, I haven't read the dog one, Timbuktu. Anyway I'll probably say more in the thread.
Thank you Amity, it's much appreciated. And thank you for the hard work you put into giving feedback on it (and everything else). I'll respond soon.
Quoting Amity
:blush:
Eventually ! And so glad I did :party:
I’ve read most of his books, including 4321, which is almost as long as War & Peace.
Yum. I'll be at One :heart:
So @jamalrob wrote Plum Pie?! Holy shit.
I'll tell once someone has guessed it. Or In like 2 minutes.
Wow, what a writer. Congrats.
Another one I got right :cool:
Congrats ! Your story was...well, you know :fire:
Nuh uh. :naughty:
That was my guess but I wasn't too sure. Really interesting story.
:clap:
Mine was Oscar and the Coconut.
Brilliant, loved it. So quirky but I thought it was by Shawn for some reason. Wallows...?
Many Congrats !! :up:
@Noble Dust Well done! (won my vote) :up:
Thanks, I hope next time maybe we'll see a story from you. Honestly, I think it would be a super cool read. No pressure :up:
Hahaha, I'll take it.
C'mon then, spill :smile:
But come on, we are all dying to know yours and we can't agree.
Wild is good in my book. :smile:
Congrats ND, you got my vote.
I think it's by @_db
Nah...dunno...
Thanks; congrats on Plum Pie, I voted for it. Excellent stuff.
I'll start responding to the feedback whenever the names go up on the stories.
How many of the authors/stories are left to be guessed ? @Baden
C'mon, THINK !!!!!
Make a list - we gotta try....fit the profiles/themes...
I'm pretty much guessed out.
Same here but it ain't fair to give up on the rest.
Who here has a fresh brain ?
Who here can help ?
Any clues, whatsoever ???
Yes, well. I reckon the Key and the Swap are written by females but whot the hell do I know :smirk:
Yeah, I know...but I managed to suss them out. Can't do it with the rest. Frustrating :chin:
I figured...I was on a time crunch with Visitations. I would like to flesh it out more and make Laura more interesting/believable.
What would make her more believable ?
My God, she is 'interesting' beyond belief but that's just me... :wink:
Out of this world :100:
I did think your Laura was totally believable and interesting though. Not sure how you did it but she was.
:up:
How long did it take you ?
Really!? Who was it?
I had the same impression. The subway scare and her talking to her boyfriend was eerily realistic.
Lazy boy :naughty:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/642454
Thanks, that's good to hear. I had to go back and edit at the last minute because I realized the only glimpse of her inner world (other than the visitations, lol!) was at the end with her thought about the cat. So I went back and added a few more inner thoughts. Maybe just more development of that, not sure.
Quoting jamalrob
I think it definitely shows. :clap:
Quoting Amity
I think about a week (the week before the deadline lol).
Thank you :wink:
Oh that was Baden?! Wow, he totally eluded me.
Mm. Man, I can''t wait till questionnaires start. I have like a bajillion questions.
It's a pity this discussion isn't in the SSC 2 thread !
Or as follow-up in the actual story...
Wow.
Holy smokes. That's pretty impressive.
Well. I'm lost for words...
:clap: :clap: :clap:
In a word: salvation.
Amnesis is the salvation of the universe.
I liked that one, so I'm very curious of the author.
"A Cross for Maria" Baden
"A Christmastime Valentine's Day Love Story" Hanover
"The Christmas That Was Not" god must be atheist
"The Ballad of Marco" Michael
"Oscar and the Coconut" Me :cool:
"Plum Pie" jamalrob,
That's what we have so far I think.
Is this confirmed?
That is SO fascinating. What kickstarts a story ?
Not yet, but I'm like, 99.999999999% certain. If it isn't him I'll eat my socks.
So which one is Paul's ?
Nope, you know the guy, doncha ?
Can't wait !
Wish all this guessing game was over. It's becoming tedious...gotta go :yawn:
Ah, OK.
A contest. :lol:
Hah :razz:
I took a look at his comments in other threads and compared it to the story, struck a cord with me.
Thanks, and thanks for the vote! I'm convinced you wrote Felice, in which case, well done to you as well. Although if I'm wrong, I probably liked whichever other story was yours as well. :lol:
Quoting 180 Proof
Okay, I'll have to wait – @Hanover is my best guess – and, in the meanwhile, many thanks for all the encouraging comments for my "Felice". I look forward to learning why @Noble Dust @Amity @jamalrob @Tobias @Jack Cummins et al pegged me for the scribbler – "style"? plot? characters? (peculiar) word choices? themes? ... :chin:
I honestly like this story.
Must be time for the full revelation and for the names to go up on the stories eh?
Well, one thing I think it has in common with your TPF posts is striking similes and metaphors, so maybe that.
Ha, all of my guesses were wrong for that one. Thought that was a very well done story, despite disagreeing with the thrust of it. :clap:
Yay and :clap:
I was looking out for you and felt the vibes :wink:
This time round, you were there !
A certain blend of anxious ataraxia, the description of the sexual night shared between the protagonists and overall quality of the story. I remembered the contests back in the day, and always enjoyed your stories.
The setting is based on Edinburgh Old Town, or similar Northern ancient city centre--"wynds and vennels" is a clue to that--but with an almost absurdly huge highway next to it (btw it's 27 lanes, not 17). So it's an alternate reality. Looks like I didn't make that clear enough, or I wrote it too much for a Scottish/Irish/Northern English audience.
Funny, I was only dimly aware of those contests back on the old forum and I'm not sure I read any of the stories. Maybe they weren't happening much by the time I joined, and in any case I was exclusively obsessed with philosophy at the time.
Hey, I thought you were going to divulge more as feedback, at the end of your story ?
Edit: OK got it now:
https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/642803
I wait in eager anticipation :cool:
There were two I can remember. I submitted in at least one of them, but I do not know if I did in both. Of course there are a bunch of new writers now, but Benei, 180 Proof, perhaps Baden and Hanover... were also there.
Congrats @jamalrob t was wonderfully written I most enjoyed your description of young Pug the flaneur!
Thanks! Aye he was a fun character to write, the easiest to write too, maybe cos he's some kind of comic archetype, I'm not sure.
:up: to both you and @Pinprick for guessing !
Many Congrats on your fascinating story. I hadn't clicked re the antinatalist aspect.
I had been going to say it was so different from your other story, but...yeah...hmmm...
:clap:
Quoting jamalrob
"Pug" has inspired a character for another story I've already sketched out. Maybe for the next contest. The little "flâneur" is fantastic! :smirk:
Quoting jamalrob
:cool:
:flower:
Quoting Tobias
Very encouraging, thanks again. :smile:
By the way @Baden, isn't it time to reveal all the authors? Did I miss it?
Yeah, reckon it is. Coming up...
This is correct
+
"Amnesis" @_db
"The Key" @Tobias
"Common Things" @ucarr
"Christmas Doing" @Athena
"The Swap" @Paul
"What I Found in a Storage Locker" @RogueAI
"Felice" @180 Proof
Ah, so close. He was my second choice for Storage Locker.
Hah. So much for me thinking they were females ! :roll:
How do they do that...???
Applause all round :clap:
Wow, great work. This was the one I didn't like at first but then fell in love with. :clap:
The Swap got me excited. So, Paul is the culprit. Always a writer.
Aye, I remember enjoying a few of his stories on the old PF. I think he won the competition there a year or two before I first entered and then @180 Proof dominated for a while.
Yes, @Paul, @180 Proof, and well, @Benkei has always been a great writer too. (Lawyers :naughty: )
I was going to mention @Benkei too actually. :strong:
Right?
I read his "I Never Was" in prior year and the flow of narration is just smooth. You know, while reading, there is a point to this and we're getting there sort of thing. I like that a lot.
I'm up for it but I'd still like a non-mod volunteer to vet the stories.
What does this mean?
I'd like someone who's not a mod to be involved in checking the stories before they're put up.
How does that work? What are we checking for -- word count, genre, grammar, writing level?
More or less. So, that it is a short story (genre), that it is within the word count, that basic writing skills are observed (grammar, spelling, layout) and that it's not plagiarised/copy-pasted from the internet. Also, if there is anything else objectionable that you think may make it unsuitable. For example, does it gratuitously use racist/sexist/homophobic language or tropes in an apparently malicious way? Or look like a troll in some other way? I want minimum censorship but, unfortunately, it's possible we will get bad faith entries.
Okay I'm taking notes -- gratuitous, malicious, troll, minimum censorship.
You got it! Do I get the job?
Oh yeah, I forgot to tell you, this is a job interview.
Yessir! :party:
I have an idea for the short story competitions. I had planned to enter the previous contest, but wasn’t able to reach the 500 word limit. I saw a post from @god must be atheist saying something similar. So, what if we did one competition with a 500 word max limit? In keeping with the solstice theme we could do it on the winter solstice since it’s the shortest day of the year, and keep the summer one as is. What do you think?
Mm, not sure that change would be generally desired. We already have a flash fiction thread though here.
I don’t suppose there’s a way to verify that?
That thread has a maximum limit of 200 words. There’s a gap from 200-500 word stories, which is where mine falls.
I already suggested that the word limit should be increased to 500 as it merely in writing the thread on Flash Fiction that it should be increased. When I set up the thread it was only my basic idea not a rigid agenda. I think that the thread was moved to the main section but it is not on the front because I don't think there has been an entry on it in the last few days. But if you go into it feel free to play around because I started it as something to be developed freely by others rather than seeing it as simply my own. It is meant to be notebook space for experimentation and improvisation.
Summer Solstice is rapidly approaching: June 21st – deadline for new submissions for TPF Short Story Contest???
Yay or nay? :nerd:
edit (re: alternative voting method) https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/640382
Yay! :)
@Caldwell @Baden I was about to ask the same question!
I'll make an official announcement soon, but, yes, sounds good.
:pray:
:up:
Apologies for the delay.
Quoting Noble Dust
I'm good. :up:
:party: