creativesoul

Meaning is not properly accounted for in such terms. There are external things that become both sign and symbol. There are external things that become...

We use language for many things. It is a tool. All tools are extensions of ourselves in some perfectly sensible, and thus rightfully applicable, manne...

This is an interesting claim, given that there is no universal syntax, grammar, nor form that all currently spoken and/or otherwise understood languag...

Ok. Some markings are from a language. Granted. You say that the text provides information. Sure. You say that the intent of the author may be lost fo...

What sorts of things can be meaningful and what makes them so? Language use is meaningful. That covers everything ever spoken, written, and/or otherwi...

Huh? :worry:

So the current question is what sorts of things can be meaningful and what makes them so? I'm happy to accept each and every notion of "meaning" here....

Fine by me.

You don't really think that para-consistency will work out here do you? :kiss: If you're here as a sparring partner... thanks!

Mirror mirror... The existential question was already answered... Which one was not that you want to be?

Well my good man... Ya know, it's not like you're being physically restrained against your will, arms and legs securely bound, eyelids propped open by...

Which question? I left several unanswered. You and I may find productive(or at least interesting) dialogue concerning "meaning is use". You may be sur...

Do you not already know what that means? :yikes: I'd be more than happy to discuss what sorts of things can be meaningful and what makes them so.

No. It doesn't. It depends upon what sorts of things can be meaningful and what makes them so. Meaning is prior to language. That which is prior to la...

Why would I bother? You've disagreed with several true claims already.

You're conflating products of your imagination with my words. More of the same. Red herring. Non-sequitur. Strawman. Etc...

Information presupposes meaning. Then all of archeology presupposes that they have meaningful information. I'm refuting the very idea. All you can inf...

One is existentially dependent upon the other, but not the other way around.

We had this... Followed by this... Red herring. Poisoning the well. Non-sequitur. Unacceptable. Discard. I'm all ears. Show me how you understand my p...

I would agree with this in general. What interests me most here is thoroughly unpacking the bit about the interacting with words. It's within what you...

Fair enough. Pardon my argumentative posture. I'm proposing that any and all texts written in language that is completely and totally devoid of users ...

I suggest you click on my avatar. Click on comments, and take a bit of your precious time to learn about what you are arguing against. It would very f...

I knew the difference. I also knew that that difference made no difference. I called it a "false dichotomy" as a result of having no difference that m...

Of course, you are still faced with the meaning of your own words in this thread persisting through time as well... Outright denial doesn't make any s...

That sort of thinking will impede you. Definitions can be wrong. There is a difference between 'just asserting' a definition and arguing for one. Appa...

The bit with you began by you using a false dichotomy between history and pre-history. The general point is that an ancient totally unfamiliar text is...

Another aspect of a single text having starkly different meaning... "John, could you close the door on your way out?" That question can have very diff...

Meaning does not have a location. To talk of meaning persisting 'anywhere' is wrong minded. That said, the above isn't entirely wrong. The additional ...

You've set out a distinction between persistent meaning and the continuity of meaning, whereas the former is unequivocally denied. That outright denia...

Lack of clarity? It's a text. Texts are in language. Languages are meaningful to their users. Ancient texts were meaningful to their users. How much c...

You gave two choices. Those were contained within quotation marks. I said neither.

The last point was well made and well taken.

I readily grant that it was meaningful to it's users.

To start a line of thinking with "either way" misleads the reader.

The term "proposition" does not belong here. My position will show you what's wrong with the notion itself. It will also show you What's Really Going ...

My point - once again - is that you are presupposing something to be lost. I do not. I argue for my position. Another point is that you refuse to addr...

The author's world does not amount to your misattribution of meaning to his/her words... If one misattributes meaning to an author's words, the author...

And yet Latin is still used...

You assume that the ancient text is still meaningful despite it's users all having perished. That needs argued for in my book. In yours, evidently not...

Reading a text and looking at marks. The difference? Understanding the meaning.

I think we can agree that meaning of the same marks, signs, and symbols changes through time and different use. The scare-quotes are no longer necessa...

Just because it has not been mentioned, does not mean it hasn't been accounted for.

We've been over this already. I gave argument. You ignored it. You offer gratuitous assertions. Reading presupposes understanding the meaning of a tex...

And what exactly can be known based upon the marks alone if there are no users of the language?

Nice. This touches upon everything I've brought into consideration thus far, and sharpened one aspect in particular; the bit about meaning changing ov...

You guessed. You asked about the guess. I answered.

I thought you were responding to an excerpt of my writing.

The above does not support anything afterwards. I do agree with the above. Not so much with what followed. An ancient text that has no users could be ...

Earlier someone mentioned location... I wonder why? Meaning is not the sort of thing that has a spatiotemporal location. Rather, it is a composition o...