creativesoul

What's the name given to the most blood-filled active biological structures "lighting up" in the scans?

What counts as an experience?

I also asked what the difference was between the mental percept that 620-750 light ordinarily causes to occur and seeing red, and dreaming red. You cl...

Exactly the same as it is while looking at it.

There's a bit of an identity crisis here. I do not know what you're picking out - if anything - to the exclusion of all else with "Red Pen". The red s...

I don't like the baggage of 'obtain'. Require minds... sure. Include minds... sure.

Aha! Not at all really. My bad if that got bad in your eyes. :flower:

The red pen is not an elemental constituent within dreams or hallucinations thereof. The difference between seeing, hallucinating, and dreaming pens i...

That's too bad.

So you've claimed. Which distinction? I've given a brief causal history as well as an in depth enough elemental constituency.

There are no red pens in hallucinations and/or dreams thereof.

What distinction do you think I drew?

We already drew and maintained the distinctions between seeing, hallucinating, and dreaming? Those still hold. They all include biological machinery. ...

What difference are you drawing/maintaining? If it's unacceptably weak, then why mention it?

When 'you' have biological machinery close enough to our own.

There are very different basic elemental constituents. Red pens, while playing a causal role in all three, do not play the role of elemental constitue...

Yup. Seeing red pens is an experience that is partially caused by red pens. Hallucinating and dreaming red pens are experiences partially caused by se...

Those dichotomies cannot properly account for that which is both. Some experience consists of both subject and object, internal and external things. A...

Of course, smart ass. What we call something is not equivalent to causation. We know what causes seeing red. What causes hallucinations and dreams of ...

What causes hallucinations of red?

So then, there is a difference between seeing red, hallucinating red, and dreaming red. Hence, if they all include "the mental percept", and yet they ...

Pretty much what I just did. :wink:

Ever read/listen to Robert Reich?

Raising the cap on taxable social security income levels would more than fix the problem. Only those who benefit the most would see a SS tax increase....

Sigh.

Now the word "red" is no longer in books, on paper, spoken aloud for everyone to hear, or on our screens... it exists only in the mind. Perfect. Oh br...

Well, there are certain groupings of nerves(specific parts of the nervous system) that do different stuff than others. If certain biological structure...

If the biological machinery behaves in a certain way when one looks at a red pen, and yet also behaves the exact same way when there is no red pen, th...

Well, there we have it. Straight from the horse's mouth, so to speak. On this view you're advocating for, you're clearly stating that there is no diff...

And what's the difference between hallucinating red and the mental percept that 620-750nm light ordinarily causes to occur? Or between dreaming red an...

I think I've seen enough here. Thanks for the interesting discussion/thoughts. Be well.

Then you're equivocating. Earlier you've put forth the claim that light has no color. The visible spectrum is light. Red is a color. Color, according ...

Sure seeing a red pen is not equivalent to a red pen. Moreover, seeing red is not equivalent to red. That's a problem as well.

Well. If red is part of the light spectrum, and certain things reflect that range, and we're capable of detecting that range, that's how we see red th...

Is that the only way to make sense of those things mentioned? What's the difference between seeing red and the mental percept that 620-750nm light ord...

So, you and Michael are claiming that the properties/features/physical characteristics regardng the surface layer of red pens cause us to see color, a...

It detects what we've named "red", despite not having mental events.

Just off the cuff absurd conclusions following from the idea that color is nothing more than a mental/psychological event.

Not a Skittles fan, huh? Taste the rainbow, except the rainbow has no colors.

The range we've named "red" cause us to see red, but there is no red in the range. Excellent.

Yeah. Seems there are some rather absurd conclusions lurking hereabouts.

Prisms do not refract the light into the visible spectrum, or the visible spectrum is colorless.

Rainbows have no color.

"Mental percept" Occam's razor. What's being explained by the invocation of "mental percept" that cannot be explained without it?

Frequencies of light are not color... according to those I'm arguing against.

Did science abandon the visible spectrum? The infrared? The ultraviolet? :brow: There's something awefully funny going on in here.

Science has led to automation capable of color matching nearly any surface presented to its scanner. It does so to near perfection. Funny how that can...

Sounds peaceful to me. The wrong cat, huh? I've been fortunate enough to have never owned the wrong one. He no like you, or you no like him? :wink:

Cheers. That's what I do for living. Fortunate enough to be able to choose something I love to do. I am living well in that regard. I hope you are as ...

Good luck stimulating blind eyes with electricity in order to cause them to suddenly see the world despite not having properly functioning biological ...