Srap Tasmaner

Oh yeah, we got this earlier: ((Wasn't ready to be doing this.))

@"MetaphysicsNow", @"mcdoodle", @"John Doe", @"Arne", @"JimRoo", @"Sam26" Posty and I are still here, just about to work on the picture theory for rea...

Interesting.

Btw, I discovered something nice I hadn't noticed about the PDF available from Project Gutenberg. It presents the complete English text followed by th...

Hopefully not this: because this is obviously false. Sachervalten are combinations of objects, the primary simples of reality; pictures have elements ...

Or we could just blunder on into the picture theory -- the main thing we skipped was the stuff about form, and we can pick that while doing the pictur...

Let's stick with this for just a bit, then I really think we need to go back. One thing that's really noticeable is the parallelism between the descri...

I'm going to rethink my position in view of I think I've been wrong not to look harder at logical space, the world, and reality.

Maybe there will be other answers as well. I do worry sometimes about getting the German wrong, connotation, usage, and so on, do it's good to get inp...

I've read that quote, and it is not obvious to me that the underlined statement is true. I remain confused. ADDED: Besides which, I think "states of a...

I just don't see how to square this with 2.04-2.06. Some atomic facts obtain and some don't. If "atomic fact" means "state of affairs that obtains", t...

I think the difference is, when speaking of objects, whether it's appropriate to call an object a "part". If it is combined with other objects in a de...

Sure, and he also wrote this: Why don't we just table this until we finally move on to the picture theory.

Why are you asking me? Suit yourself. Is there something in the text I've misread or overlooked? Wouldn't be a huge surprise. Just point me in the rig...

A little fill-in argumentation, cleaning up what I've posted so far. If the actual world is partitioned into independent facts, then there can be no s...

I just want to call attention to the shape of this argument. There's metaphysics here, but it's a metaphysics implied by what we understand about repr...

TL:DR: In terms of a bunch of objects, and maybe even how exactly they're combined: Sachlagen. The thing objects are combined into: Sachverhalt.

Once more into the breach -- assuming "states of affairs" here is Sachlagen. And Max Black notes that Sachverhalten and Sachlagen are really hard to d...

The quotes I've posted are from Ogden & Ramsey. It might be simplest just to settle on this as the official version -- it's available free (and legall...

If by "logical atomism" you specifically mean Russell's views around this period, see below. I thought there were a lot of people who took TLP itself ...

Ah, so that's Russell. I feel like reading that would only confuse matters. Does that seem crazy? I mean, it's hard enough to get a handle on what W i...

Did I write something that conflicts with this quote? (And where's that quote from?)

Expanded how? At this point anyway, I'm guessing, because we don't have anything yet on propositions or truth. Do you mean here, how one and not the o...

((I had hoped to get this up earlier, but better late than never.)) My last post took predication as an analogy and followed the process in one direct...

Has there been any progress?

I Yes

No. I only have Ogden & Ramsey. We've been using German where necessary for clarity.

I am in exactly this boat, fwiw.

This is the thread. We're still working on 1 - 2.063. Haven't even gotten to pictures yet. Haven't even nailed down what the terms in the first sectio...

Yes. It has begun.

It was worth the wandering just for the return. I'm still kind of stunned by the elegance of the argument that convinced me. The symmetry of it. In st...

Let's see if we can put the "atomism" in "logical atomism"! (The following are from the O&R translation.) I'm going to pick out just a few remarks tha...

Thanks!

I believe you, Sam. But I'm under the impression you think we have already made a mistake or are in danger of making a mistake, only you haven't told ...

Such a distinction makes perfect sense and would be useful. Whether it tracks W's usage is something we'd want to know, just to make sure we don't mis...

I don't understand the "composite" business. For the other issue, I'll have to wait until I can look at the text again. I don't think he distinguished...

Not the very best way to begin a post. If you'd like to offer a different take on the passages under discussion, I'm sure we'd all be interested.

My issue was the suggestion that something isn't a possibility if it is an actuality. That struck me as an odd way to approach modality. I just want t...

No no no, we can't move on yet! (If there are things we think we'll be better able to address after covering more, I could see keeping a little list s...

Thanks. We've moved on here, but I appreciate your thoughts. You've addressed a lot of the gaps in my understanding of this stuff, and I especially ap...

One more point. If you take a step back, SB looks a bit like a fucked up way of doing two trials of a single experiment. (No worries about the single ...

Still thinking about how to properly score this thing. The Lewis table is what you get if you try to compensate for SB's structure by treating the coi...

I really like this argument. I meant to ask about it myself -- I saw a variation of it on StackExchange a few days ago while I was digging around for ...

Well, yeah, it would be quite a coincidence. I didn't see the need to labor the point. What you say here is what I was saying, so long as you take "te...

Yeah, we're not nearly there yet! I'm going to wait for MN to chime in. See y'all tomorrow.

This sounds good, except it's the possibility of things lying together, not facts.

What's the stuff about sense? ADDED: Maybe don't -- it sounds like maybe we'd be getting way ahead of ourselves.

I don't think so. He uses the word "possible" a lot in the first couple pages, and with both. 2.0122 is another: "The thing is independent, in so far ...

Very nice.

Yeah, good point. I totally forgot about Sachlage, which O&R render as "state of affairs". At a glance, he seems to use Sachlage where there's a sense...