Philosophim

I would just modify one thing. I would state that everything that we've discovered so far is physical in origin. It does not mean that everything is p...

Hello Boagie, thanks for contributing. So an OP like this is setting up a very particular argument and set of vocabulary. Its a 'proof' if you were. Y...

No, that actually proves a first cause. "What caused a circular causation to exist instead of another type of causation?" As you noted it "Has no init...

Its nice to see someone tackle the actual argument. First, let me point out what the definition of a first cause is. Its a cause that has no prior exp...

Really, quit trolling the thread Banno. This goes nowhere near the ontological argument. I expect better out of someone who been here as long as you h...

Yes, in other words something without prior cause. A first cause as defined by the OP. I think the realization is very important to have and prove. I ...

Does it? I'm not sure you understand it at all.

This is not a proof for God argument. I'm an atheist.

Yes, silly of you to think that straw man posts that demonstrate you do not understand the OP would be anything useful or respectable. I read the Ansc...

This is why I asked earlier if you could give an example of an end in itself that wasn't a mind. Yes, this is my general problem with ethical theories...

I do not address agency at all. This theory states noting about it. I don't know either! And yet despite not knowing that, we arrive at the conclusion...

I still see that as the easy problem, as its a very clear approach. Eventually after research, we find that X leads to Y. Its a problem, and I'm not s...

We can revisit this later. For now, I do not believe that one should be rational is a subjective moral judgement. But we have to get the base down fir...

If I understood the allegory correctly, the physical deformities do not excuse the man's act of morality and responsibility to his own welfare and the...

Ha ha! An honest troll with a sense of humor? You made me crack a smile over here. Genuinely, have a good day!

Not that I disagree, but what do you mean by this? This is more of a cheerleader quote, we should back why we're cheering something. :)

Perfect except for one thing. A first cause does not necessitate that it is a 'creator'. A creator would be a complex conscious being with intention. ...

Ha ha! Not a worry! I am always glad to have you in any discussion Bob. I understand the passion. Its about 'Why does X exist? Because Y happened a se...

I'm wondering if the tie in of minds to things in themselves is this fallacy. My thinking was that if minds are the only things that are ends in thems...

That's kind of what I'm trying to solve here. :) Maybe I won't, but you never know until you try. Call it whatever you want personally. The meaning be...

Certainly there is examining causality within a slice of time, then examining prior causality, which involves time. The OP is covering causality. Choo...

I'm going to hold you to a higher standard than others in the forum Banno, as I know you're well versed. If you believe that, indicate in the OP where...

I appreciate the suggestion Bob, but I don't think I use any empirical claims. In fact, when we spoke about this last time I believe the point you not...

The nature of morality is what 'should' happen. That's where we've started. As I examine proposals of what should be, I ask, "Why should that reason b...

Please read the entire OP. That's just an introduction. The details are in reading the rest. Feel free to ask me again if after reading the entire thi...

Look at the logic I point out about being. Look at the OP and the actual argument. Opinions without referencing the argument are just assertions of on...

If you think existence does not follow logic, that's fine. But if you follow logic, its still logically necessary. I even noted that a first cause has...

Yeah Bob, I don't know what you're talking about. Please remove your own language and try to say what you want to say using the language I've put forw...

That's fair. So then if someone found an insect to be an end in itself, it would be needed to be treated as such. I see that as a problem considering ...

That's the OP. Basically if you state that everything has a cause, you either get to the point where you you have the potential for a finite chain of ...

The point being you haven't indicated where they exist if not in the brain. Why is it absurd? If the brain is physical, and it can relate ideas, math ...

True. But logic in general is our best tool to analyze whether ideas fit in with the nature of existence as we know it. In this particular case howeve...

Yeah, good conversation J! I'll catch you around in another thread.

Right. But that verbal model always boils down to needing something synthetic to understand the terminology at the end of the day. Further, what if yo...

According to modern day science, it has been concluded that the brain that causes consciousness. Just like an engine runs a car. The question is figur...

That's fair and kind. My question really is, "If consciousness cannot be measured by the subjects experience, how else have we measured it over the ye...

Oh, who considers it controversial? You? I consider your idea that consciousness does not come from the brain as controversial, as do many other philo...

Sure, on the question of how brains create consciousness, we're still trying to figure it out. That brains create consciousness? We've figured that ou...

We're just going around in circles Patterner, and I don't think we're reaching each other here. Lets agree to disagree. Good conversation.

What I'm trying to note is that abstract concepts do not exist apart from brains. If there are no brains in the universe, there is no math. Your brain...

It does exist in the physical world. It exists in our physical brains. Right? If it doesn't exist there, where does it exist?

Sure, but its not the hard problem. Its just a problem. We learn more every day how the brain works in both medicine and science. All of this was done...

Yes, judgement is a physical process by your brain. Rocks don't do that right? Brains do. Just a cursory examination of chemistry and physics demonstr...

Subjective consciousness is not empirically observable. Behavioral consciousness is. That is the only objective way any of us will, or likely ever, kn...

Lets break it down carefully. When you say, "How subjective experience exists at all", its important to clarify what this means. The "at all" seems to...

Then it sounds like we don't have a true definition of a fictional unicorn without a lot of work. In which case, is it analytic or synthetic?

This. You can't go to the past. You can only recreate a setup of matter and energy that existed in the past. Once you did, it would then continue iden...

I understand that. But what is the true definition of a fictional unicorn?

It all boils down to understanding how we know about consciousness today. Its not through the subjective experience of something. Its through its beha...

Sure. Replace all I said with actual encounters in the world with people's drawings. Is there a degree of bending we can do with a fictional creature ...