Where is the infinite regress? If we don't need spacetime before spacetime (as this sentence doesn't make any sense), and go from nothing to spacetime...
Right. I never agreed that we need spacetime before a change can happen. I agreed that we need spacetime for a change to happen. The start of spacetim...
Then you're ascribing an identity to a thing in itself. There is no indirect or direct knowledge of anything about a thing in itself besides the fact ...
Sure. Lets go with, "That which has an identity. An identity is how it interacts with what is around itself" Basically anything that isn't nothing, as...
There is no waiting for it, as there is nothing doing the waiting. No, but spacetime happened after there being nothing, so we have a change, and we h...
Yes, this idea is in its exploratory phase, so these discussions are very helpful to see if there is any merit to the ideas here. Not a worry! Time is...
Good to see a little levity here! It all started when I read the Kalem cosmological argument long ago. Of course it was easy to see that the idea that...
No, it is specifically a first cause, not just any cause. Perfect! Correct. The wording about physics is a little to vague for me. "A principal first ...
Yes, and I made two points you'll have to consider. 1. We have nothing, then spacetime. Change happened with spacetime. 2. There is nothing in your ar...
I'm saying at least one first cause is logically necessary, and the consequences of that being so. I'm not including or excluding anything but definin...
Ucarr, the context of the statement is implying the first cause of that specific chain. Not the 'first' first cause ever. Let me be clear and unambigu...
Seems like we're going round and round here at this point. Which is fine, it just means its likely time to end it. But if spacetime appears, we have s...
Yes. :) And the above still applies. If there is no point prior to spacetime (remember, you noted earlier time cannot exist alone, its a property of s...
No, I don't think so because what you've concluded is that we need spacetime for other changes besides spacetime. You haven't proven that spacetime it...
Does it? What caused 3? What caused the line to be drawn that particular way instead of any other way? And if there is nothing that caused it to be dr...
A causes B causes C is a causal chain. Every point within that chain has a prior point except the first cause. The logical conclusion is that there mu...
Thank you for posting Brenden, I will try to address your points the best I can. Those two statements don't appear to be that far off. If existence is...
I'm not sure what you mean. Does time continue? Yes. Is it necessarily the case that more first causes will happen? No. Is it necessarily the case tha...
Trying to throw in some extra vocabulary doesn't solve the issue. Lord knows its a common tactic among many on the forums. :D We should be able to exp...
I think you've made a pretty good argument so far, but here is where you're stuck. I think its fine to call spacetime a substance, but plugging it int...
True, 'swelling' is more of an implicit intention. My point is I don't think you need to introduce space as a 'thing in itself'. Anytime we try to def...
I think its clear that we've both said our piece at this point and no further value can be added to the discussion. I think its fair to say we agree t...
This is really close. Let me break it down to be sure. "Do you accept the following argument: Since by definition a first cause can't have any derivat...
So I think what you're going for here is saying we would need spacetime to be for spacetime to appear. But that doesn't really make sense right? If sp...
Because our logic comes from and involves things that already exist. No one has every empirically observed 'nothing' then seen something come from it....
True. And I never make a claim that my point is empirically proven, its only logic. I have another thread where I'm exploring an objective morality wi...
No, I did not claim a first cause is the inception of all creation. A first cause is the inception of a causality chain. The entirety of our universe ...
I had to think about this one a while, as part of this conversation with you is learning what needs to be said and what is irrelevant in a discussion ...
This is a nice attempt, but its just an empirical observation of change withing spacetime. What we haven't observed is if its impossible for spacetime...
This is a good topic Bob. I think it helps to define what space and time are. Space is the property we attribute to a things 'swell of existence'. Spa...
Ok, with that, lets see if we can break down the underlying essence of what makes the argument compelling. Spacetime is 'something". Its an existent m...
Because the rabbi, priest, or minister claims to have knowledge of what the first cause is. I do not. My definition would put the rabbi, priest, or mi...
My intention was not to side step your hypothetical. It was to note in this instance, especially because you are still learning the theory, it would b...
Then why not ask me to give a better example? You've been accusing me of being dishonest and besmirching my character instead of asking. It wasn't mea...
You didn't tag what was true and false in your breakdown, so I assumed that A was true and B was false in isolation. If your intention is that the bre...
No, I'm saying there's no prior cause for a first cause to exist, so there cannot be any prior limitations as to what a first cause had to be. No prio...
I say there can be no prior cause, and thus no prior reason. But reason is sometimes used as a term of explanation. Depending on a person's use of rea...
Not a problem! We're here to think with each other. Also welcome to the forums. You will encounter some people who will talk down to you or passively ...
Let me point out a weakness that needs to be resolved here. P1. Time is needed for any change. What is time? Without this definition nothing can be pr...
Its just a bad contraction. If we break out the sentence into its full meaning, its fine. A. This is a sentence. True B. The sentence in point A is a ...
Existence is a set of all things that exist. I note that its a set of existence. So for example I can say, "What causes rain?" Or, "What causes water?...
We've already gone over this, but I'll say it again if it was missed. If there is no prior cause, there is no prior reason. There is no unspecified te...
I've given several examples. All I'm asking is for you to do the same. I'm not asking for proof that such a thing exists, just give me a possible exam...
To be clear, there is no limitation upon what can be incepted. Once a first cause exists, it is bound to causation by what it is. For example, lets sa...
Absolutely. The reason I say "time tick" is because if I said seconds, then we could divide into milliseconds, then...you get it. A first cause exists...
No, and I made a slight mistake in my wording here. "A" first cause. Because there is no prior cause for a first cause, there is no limitation on what...
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