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He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name ...

To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

I get it. We disagree. Take care. :smile: If my interpretation isn't useful to you.... It's okay.

This is a claim with no factual basis. My contact with John's Revelation, read psychologically and interpreted metaphorically, has altered the course ...

Open up chapters two and three of the KJV and ctrl-F the word overcometh. His chorus of overcomeths I take to be a call to self-overcoming.

If you like: I've rewritten John's Revelation. That doesn't trouble me.

Your view that my interpretation is a deformation is clear to me. You just said it.

You might say that a strictly psychological interpretation requires the elision of constrictive theological and mythological content. But the bare fac...

It interests me. This interpretation is reasonable, but not how I see it. Defending my elisions doesn't interest me.

Quite obviously - and transparently - so. Not 'seems': it's precisely the thing I said thrice: It's had some pretty silly impacts: like folks who take...

You don't have to be faithful to a poem. You can dissect it and twist it until it's something useful to you. I know more about transpersonal psycholog...

Already addressed above. I elide the hyper-Christy bits and read it as a poem written by some dude. Not concerned about John's intentions.

The Jungle: Eden for ticks and mosquitos. But in light of our technological ascent, still an option for the superape.

It's not easy to respect an opinion you don't understand.

Butbutbut---say the philosimians - but look: world war, torture, pedophilia, nukes, rape, self- and ecological destruction, etc... * No one is claimin...

Right. Humans are apes that do physics, metaphysics, abstract art, jazz, epic poetry, space exploration, mystical ecstasy... No matter how morally ind...

Gotcha :cool:

More definition one than definition two?... noun 1. an overwhelming feeling of great happiness or joyful excitement. "there was a look of ecstasy on h...

Or are you thinking more etymologically? from ek "out" (see ex-) + histanai "to place, cause to stand," from PIE root *sta- "to stand, make or be firm...

Contemplation, philosophical or otherwise, can be wholly engrossing, expansive and rewarding. But still to my ear ecstatic has an exaggerated ring.

Is the word ecstasy an exaggeration here? Are you defining ecstasy as ego-suspension? Play is fun and connective and can induce an ego-eliminative flo...

I think of the archetypes as playing a critical role in the creation of mystique. Various kinds of mystique. The mystique of the mother or of the prie...

An archetype-infused conception of reality. Sure. The mythic mystique of the Fuhrer. And so on. That's a good point. I've been focused on dreams and l...

I put my finger on it: That's the collective UNconscious. Jung's idea.

I agree archetypes are important. It's a good idea to take them to heart when they appear - typically in dreams. Or literature. I think Kevin and I we...

I've never heard anything like that in the US news, left or right.

Not sure I understand... Do you mean these things are preferable?

you're definitely not slow :smile:

There's a kind of zen-pentacost hybrid I bump into too.

Always loved his unique voice. I'm curious: you call yourself an ekstatic or ecstatic (I forget): I'm curious how you go about it. PM is fine if you'd...

By the way, when you quote a forum member, if you highlight your selection and use the quote tool (it should appear somewhere on your screen - alterna...

You must have strayed into a den of Pentacostals: Where a chorus of HELLLLPs can ascend to tongues of fire. :fire: :hearts: :fire: Don't burn the baby...

That's the idea. :smile:

In the case of deriving transformational inspiration from an abstract poem like Revelation, you have to (so to speak) write your own self help book. T...

I have trouble with the notion of collective consciousness, as the range of ideologies, cultures, behaviors, propensities of thought is vast and baffl...

I think of psychology as more of an art than a science.

I should have mentioned I'm looking at the KJV. I noticed the NIV uses "he who is victorious" not "who overcometh". Same idea.

Anytime. Helps me clarify my thoughts...

For what it's worth, I'm far from Christian. :smile:

Conventional Christianity has taken it to be. My psychological reading is a bit eccentric.

Open chapters one and two of Revelation in a browser and ctrl-F the word overcome. It's a kind of refrain.

The Utopian vision understood as inspiration for self-transformation can have a theological or non-theological context. From Marxism to Jonestown. It'...

The work states explicitly - in spiritualized poetic language - what will happen if one "overcomes."

In the realm of music you have folks like Jimi Hendrix who had a desire to open the minds of his compeers. And so many others.

Only different in the sense that John is encouraging, even demanding, self-transformation. (Not so much with Bellow, for what I've read from him.) And...

An influx of encouraging, transformative inspiration is emotional. Sure.

You call transpersonal psychology theology because you have an agenda.

A bit exaggerated, but literal in the sense that the desired, future patterns of mind are incompatible with the present undesired darkness-laden patte...

As a poet, I take Revelation to be a work of poetic genius. The atmosphere is one of superlative spiritual intensity, the height of inspiration. This ...

Footnote: The fear and anguish arise from the fact that the old self must be destroyed before a new self can be created. There's no way I'm aware of t...