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That's shallow, knee-jerk psychology. His heart is in it. He feels he's created or uncovered something devastating or catalytic to the history of phil...

You're not reading my posts. I think your emotions are mediating. Yes, both of you were insisting. But in your case, there was no fun puzzle to solve.

It's the tone of your insistence. It's off-putting. Neomac seems to know a lot about these things so I hope you have better luck there. I mentioned ab...

This is why I don't engage. You have no sense of charity and your posts are unpleasant.

I had a compassionate feeling for creative, for whatever reason, and thought I might help him sort out his mistake.

I engaged them up to a point. Until further engagement seemed futile and there was no fun puzzle to solve. I didn't see a fun, interesting puzzle in y...

I would refer you to the recent thread on 'doing good.'

You're view here is odd to me. I have no attachment or commitment to a single thing that comes out of this branch of philosophy (analytic). I'm just h...

I'm not wasting my time. I'm trying to help creative see he's wasting his time. And also enjoying the puzzle. This kind of philosophy is just a popcor...

It's unusual to see my and Banno's considerations dovetail to a similar conclusion. It's significant that they do. Philosophy is about understanding w...

2. Nf3 (I fudged your quote to provide an example of the quoting format I had in mind to avoid mix-ups and confusion.) :smile:

A philosopher is a person who loves wisdom and seeks wisdom. So when in the heat of philosophical debate it's a bright idea to, once or twice, pause a...

It's more than making ourselves feel good. Doing good gives our life meaning.

You too! I hope you'll continue to consider the possibility that your account of Jack's belief is not what Jack's belief is actually about. Have a goo...

Thank you. :smile: That gives me a nice place to start. I'll have a look at Sense and Reference.

The account that most accurately says, implies or suggests what Jack actually believes. So let's ask Jack what he believes. Do we say: "Hey Jack, what...

Just to restate my rebuttal concisely: Jack believes X. (Jack believes a clock is working.) Your account of Jack's belief suggests Jack believes Y. (J...

And the implications?

And folks who come here and read the exchange will make that determination. :smile: If your side of this debate became orthodoxy, what would the impli...

I'm sure you know more about the burden of proof than I do. If you want to include this tricky adjective in your account of Jack's belief, is the burd...

Mary believes the red sky is blue. Who in this case knows the sky is actually red? It's the omniscient narrator. Why should the omniscient narrator be...

So you're including what you know about Jack's belief in your account of Jack's belief. What justification do you have for doing that?

So that's where we disagree. That's a fundamental disagreement. Jack is an interesting case. :smile:

Should your account of Jack's belief reflect what he doesn't know about his belief?

It came out of the mouth of the founder of the organization I linked you to.

No. I'm not. I'm saying one thing: Your account of Jack's belief should reflect what Jack knows about his belief. If you disagree, that's okay. But my...

Don't forget the oral tradition. :smile: http://www.pragmaticbuddhism.org/

The floor is mine: exeunt all but Zzz and every night playground has a recess of ghosts to sing and mingle with. I'm on about Jack still so I'll put t...

They call it gradualism, that's why I say gradualistic instead of gradual. :smile:

The Pragmatic Buddhists eschew the very notion of enlightenment as a dangerous fantasy or pitfall, instead focusing on a gradualistic increase in self...

eh

Again, it makes me think of Skinner: your formulation treats Jack like an X, an empty variable, instead of like a person with a mental life (with view...

... and ideas.

In other words: your statement about Jack's belief is incorrectly formulated because it elides the mental parameters of Jack's belief. Belief is, at l...

Sorry, I don't have the background to understand your question.

Do the perceptions of the believer play any role in the formation and formulation of his belief?

In other words: even though the clock is stopped, Jack's belief isn't about - a stopped clock.it's about a clock.

How about this: First, lets substitute 'a' for 'the'. Jack believes a stopped clock is working. What is Jack's belief about? We have to say: A stopped...

You're conflating change and the perception of change. Banno isn't.

Certainly in some sense the white changes to yellow. That much we can comfortably assume all of us understand. So the question must be: in what way is...

If when Jack looked at the clock he had no awareness of a belief, do we still call this believing?

Hi there. I've been enjoying reading your clear and detailed commentary on the debate. This subject is fascinating but I don't know a lot about it. I'...

There we have it. It's all twaddle. :smile: "Twaddle" is a nice word. :smile:

I'm curious what Banno has to say, if anything, about the broken clock example.

Sounds good, I'll enjoy reading it, I'm sure.

Thanks. Is this your own work or is it something from the canon? If it's your own work, what philosophers influenced this?

Sounds interesting, I'd like to see it.

Yeah, I see that. It's clear.

I see what you're saying but it seems to me that the meta-perspective is the problem. I'm not sure what the solution is.

Here you make a knowledge claim about the psychology of the cat. You say: I know that the mind of a cat is such that it's unable to check on a belief....