Luke

According to the Fish article, this is the naive part (3), not the direct part (2): You keep trying to argue that the rejection of (3) is also the rej...

How is Russellian acquaintance with mental representations of external objects an indirect perception? Russellian acquaintance is not a perception, so...

Yes, I think something along these lines is required when talking about perceiving something, especially since the main point of contention in this de...

As I explained here, the dispute between direct and indirect realists concerns the directness or indirectness of our perceptual experiences of real ob...

Also, I don’t understand how you get from “unmediated empirical affect” to “mediated representation”. What is being mediated here? Are you talking abo...

This is not indirect realism according to the linked page provided by @"Michael", which describes the relevant mediation as a perception of a percepti...

Do you hold the view that we must perceive mental phenomena in order to perceive real objects? If so, then this is where our positions differ and we h...

Then where is the mediation of our perception of visual objects by the perception of some other entities such as sense-data?

I'm not reading it into the grammar. It is one of the defining claims of indirect realism. As (2) states, direct realism is the proposition that "our ...

This is not what (2) states. It refers to our visual perception of material objects being mediated by the perception of some other entities, such as s...

From above, (2) is the statement that: I disagree that this has the same meaning as: Please explain how the latter statement concerns the mediation of...

According to the link you’ve provided to the article by Fish: This indicates that one can reject (3) and yet still be a direct realist. It is not the ...

I'm surprised at this response. You've been dismissing my version of non-naive direct realism, claiming it to be a species of indirect realism, for at...

To clarify, when you say that, according to naive realism, perceptions and perceived distal objects have the same physical constituents, do you take t...

None of these quotes state or even suggest that the naive realism position is that their perceptions have the same physical constituents as the percei...

Why can't naive realists simply hold the view that distal objects have the properties that they perceive them to have? I find your view that naive rea...

I don't know of any physical/physiological difference. Is it your position that our perceptions of real objects are mediated by mental representations...

If mental representations do not mediate our perceptions of real objects, then our perceptions of real objects are not indirect, they are direct. You ...

I don’t know if there is any physical/physiological difference. We are both positing mental representations. I do. I don’t know what you mean by “dire...

I don't know about that, but it's very kind of you to say. :)

Apologies for the following "argument by AI", but it is far more eloquent than I am, and I believe is in agreement with my view: I asked ChatGPT for s...

Naive realism "is the idea that the senses provide us with direct awareness of objects as they really are." (Wikipedia) "Naïve realism claims that obj...

I imagine the counter would be spinning at a near-infinite speed by that stage, making it very difficult to read.

Right, but the direct/indirect realism discussion is also commonly framed in terms of whether we directly perceive real objects or whether we instead ...

Yes. How do representations prohibit us from seeing the world? I think you may be referring to seeing a representation of the world (instead of the wo...

The representation is the condition for seeing something, not some thing that you see.

I think direct and indirect realists are arguing over whether we perceive the world directly or whether we perceive mental representations (or some ot...

I don’t see how this relates to whether we perceive objects directly or indirectly or, in particular, how it relates to the supposed perception of rep...

How is the dispute between naive realists and indirect realists any different? One group just prefers to use the noun "visual experience" to include d...

I take it you mean the second part of the sentence? Why should it be wrong if, as Michael claims, "I see distal objects" and "I see mental phenomena" ...

Then how is it merely grammatical? You said:

Are the following statements also true? "I see cows and cows are mental phenomena." "I see colours and colours are distal objects." "I feel pains and ...

Then I don't understand the point of this post:

So, are distal objects a mental phenomena?

I never said it was all about sight. I asked whether we see distal objects.

I asked whether we see distal objects. Why are you now talking about experience instead of seeing?

Do I see distal objects? Do I feel distal objects when I touch them? Are distal objects a mental phenomena?

I could equally say that direct and indirect realists mean the same thing by "I see X" but disagree on what constitutes X. I do not agree with the sub...

Whatever each group means by it, it must be such that if what one group means by it is true, then…? Naive realists claim that “visual experience” incl...

I do not hold the naive realist view that visual experience extends beyond the body. However, this does not make me an indirect realist because there ...

According to indirect realists, these are all mental phenomena, no matter what you see or feel. What you see or feel can only be a representation, so ...

I see trees, trees are a mental phenomenon... Wait, I thought you were a realist?

That doesn't seem to be your position, though, nor that of indirect realists. Indirect realists do not claim that the visual experience is a mental ph...

They are presented in experience as a perception of the object, not as the object itself. It is absurd to argue that in order to have a direct percept...

I'm not sure what you take a direct perception to be. Must a distal object become part of one's body in order to have a direct perception? Who thinks ...

I think much of the dispute between direct and indirect realists may revolve around the fact that direct realists limit the meaning of the word "perce...

You don't actually see a distal object when you dream and the schizophrenic does not actually hear a distal object when hallucinating. That what makes...

Thanks for this diagram, which illustrates the distinction between direct realism and indirect realism. I think that the distinction could be brought ...

Interestingly, when one sees an illusion, one sees it directly, i.e., without seeing any intermediary. However, I suspect that indirect realists will ...